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ALL RIGHT FOLKS.

[00:00:01]

WE ARE HERE FOR THE DECEMBER 15TH, 2020

[Transportation Infrastructure Committee Meeting on December 15, 2020. ]

MEETING OF THE GARLAND CITY COUNCILS, TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE AND MOBILITY COMMITTEE.

I AM THE CHAIR WHERE JOB AND I HAVE WITH ME, THE OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS, MAYOR PRO TEM, ROBERT JOHN SMITH, AND COUNCIL MEMBER, JERRY NICKERSON.

LET'S GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA.

AND WE DO HAVE SOME TIME CONSTRAINTS TONIGHT.

GENTLEMEN, WE DO NEED TO STOP BY ABOUT FIVE 45 BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A FOUNDATION FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MEETINGS STARTED STARTING AT SIX THAT, UM, MS. MORALEZ NEEDS TO, UH, UH, TO GET SET UP AND THAT WILL NEED TO BE READY FOR.

UM, SO THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS, UH, THE APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 17TH, 2020 MEETING MINUTES MOVE APPROVAL.

I THINK JURY'S FROZEN.

I THINK JERRY'S FROZEN.

SO I'LL, WE'LL DO THAT AS A SECOND BY CLAIM APPROVED.

NEXT ITEM.

UM, JOHN, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THE, THE THIRD ITEM OR WHICHEVER ITEM YOU INDICATED WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO GET DONE TODAY? WHAT TO DO THAT ITEM? UH, ITEM NUMBER TWO.

OKAY, SO LET'S MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER TWO, DISCUSSION REGARDING POTENTIAL FUNDING FROM RTC FOR THE RECONSTRUCTION SHILOH MILLER WALNUT, UH, CARRIE, YOUR, YOUR SECOND IS NOTED.

UH, WHAT ARE HIS, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE, THE, UH, NUNC PRO TUNC LATIN NOW FOR THEM.

ALL RIGHT.

IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT, UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO.

YES, SIR.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

SHARE MY SCREEN.

CAN YOU ALL SEE THAT? YES.

OKAY.

SO THE, UH, THE COG HAS, HAS, IS ASKING FOR POTENTIAL PROJECTS TO BE FUNDED.

AND SO THAT'S KINDA WHAT I GO ON.

I GO THROUGH THAT.

THE WE'VE ALSO GOT SOME TRANSPORTATION DEVELOPMENT CREDITS TO USE, AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT.

UM, BUT WITH THOSE WERE AWARDED LAST YEAR, WE'VE BEEN AWARDED THOSE THREE YEARS IN A ROW, UH, OR, AND THEY'RE GOING TO BASICALLY SKIP THIS YEAR AND THEN THEY'LL PROBABLY GO TO EVERY TWO YEARS WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO AWARD THESE.

SO WE'VE GOT, I THINK 0.2, 5 MILLION CREDITS THAT WE CAN USE IT.

IT'S NOT CASH.

UM, BUT YOU ESSENTIALLY USE IT SIMILAR TO CURRENT CASH.

UM, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE ISSUED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THEY ARE, UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ISSUED BASED ON TOTAL PROJECTS AND BECAUSE OUR REGION HAS HAD SO MANY TOTAL PROJECTS, UM, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS BASICALLY RECOGNIZED THAT AND, AND, AND, AND BASICALLY SAID, YOU KNOW, SINCE, SINCE YOU GUYS HAVE, HAVE NOT USED AS MANY FEDERAL DOLLARS, AND SO WE COULD USE THOSE FEDERAL DOLLARS SOMEWHERE ELSE WHERE WE'LL GIVE YOU A CREDIT FOR, UM, FOR USING TOLL ROADS INSTEAD OF, UH, FEDERAL DOLLARS.

AND SO THEY'RE GIVING US CREDITS TO BE USED.

UM, THEY'RE DISTRIBUTED FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THE COG AND TO TEXTILE.

UH, IT'S KIND OF SPLIT.

I'M NOT REALLY SURE HOW THEY'RE SPLIT BETWEEN THE TWO, BUT I KNOW THAT EACH ONE HAS THEIR OWN THAT THEY CAN USE.

UM, AND WHAT THEY'RE USED FOR, WHAT YOU GET, WHAT THEY'RE USEFUL FOR IS FOR LOCAL MATCH.

SO IF YOU HAVE A PROJECT THAT YOU WANT TO USE FEDERAL MONEY ON, TYPICALLY IT'S AN 80 20 SPLIT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PUTS IN A 80% OF THE MONEY.

THE LOCAL PUTS IN 20% OF THE MONEY, BUT WITH THESE TDCS, YOU CAN USE THAT TOWARDS YOUR, UM, YOUR 20% LOCAL MATCH.

UM, NOW SINCE IT'S NOT REAL DOLLARS, IT'S, THEY, THEY, THEY BASICALLY, UM, WE'LL JUST GIVE YOU THE OTHER 20% IN DOLLARS.

SO YOU BASICALLY CONVERTED TO DOLLARS.

UM, THE COG HAS PROVIDED SOME OF THESE CREDITS TO CITIES, UM, FOR ADOPTING CERTAIN COG POLICIES, RTC POLICIES.

AND SO WHEN, IF YOU QUALIFY FOR AT LEAST, YOU KNOW,

[00:05:01]

YOU ADOPT AT LEAST HALF OF THE COSTS OF THE RTC POLICIES, THEN YOU CAN USE THOSE, UH, YOU'RE AWARDED CERTAIN NUMBER OF CREDITS.

AND THAT'S WHERE WE GOT THESE CREDITS THE LAST THREE YEARS, UM, ALL OF THE CR THE TWO YEARS OF CREDITS SO FAR THAT WE'VE GOTTEN, AND WE PUT THEM ONTO PROJECTS HAVE BEEN USED FOR SHILOH ROAD, UH, FOR THE SECTION BETWEEN KINGSLEY MILLER, WHICH IS OF COURSE THE NEXT SECTION UP FROM THE CURRENT SECTION WE'RE WORKING ON NOW.

UM, AND WHAT I'M GOING TO PROPOSE IS THAT WE USE THESE, THE, THIS YEAR'S CREDITS TOWARDS THE NEXT SECTION, WHICH, WHICH I'M HOPING WILL BE BETWEEN FROM MILLER TO UP TO ESSENTIALLY WALNUT JUST NORTH OF WALNUT, UM, THAT WILL GET US THROUGH THE PART THAT IS MORE OR LESS FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM HAR THE HARDEST PART, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO WIDEN THE ROADWAY OUT FROM WHAT THE CURRENT, UH, RIGHT-AWAY IS NOW.

UM, WHEN YOU GET NORTH OF WALNUT, UM, THE, THE ROADWAY IS BUILT UP IN THAT SECTION TO WHERE YOU ONLY HAVE TO WIDEN TO THE MIDDLE.

SO ESSENTIALLY WE'RE JUST ADDING A LANE TO THE MIDDLE.

THAT PART GETS A LITTLE EASIER.

IT ALSO, YOU KNOW, AS WE MARCH KEEP MARCHING FORWARD, UM, THAT SHOULD BE, SHOULD GET A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO DO.

ALTHOUGH MICHAEL, I THINK WANTS TO A PAYMENT CONDITION MAY BE SUCH THAT WE ENDED UP REBUILDING THE WHOLE ROAD, BUT, BUT WE'LL REBUILD IT IN THE SAME CLIP.

IT'S STILL EASIER THAN WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW.

THIS, THIS IS AN OLDER SECTION AND WE'VE GOT, UH, SOME, SOME CHALLENGES.

UM, SO THOSE ARE, THAT'S KIND OF THE OVERVIEW OF THE SHILOH ROADS.

IT'S IT'S SHILOH ROAD IS ONE OF THE MOST CONGESTED CORRIDORS IN GARLAND.

UM, IT CAME UP IN THE, IN OUR BOTTLENECK STUDY AS HAVING, I MEAN, JUST ABOUT EVERY MAJOR INTERSECTION ON A LONG SHILOH FROM REALLY FROM SIX 35 ALL THE WAY UP TO ONE 90, UM, TURNED OUT TO BE A SIGNIFICANT BOTTLENECK PROBLEM.

AND THE, IN ORDER TO FIX THE BOTTLENECK PROBLEMS, FOR THE MOST PART, THE BOTTLENECKS WERE REALLY INTENDED TO ADD, YOU KNOW, LEFT TURN LANES, RIGHT TURN LANES, YOU KNOW, OR TO IMPROVE THE CAPACITY.

UM, IN MOST OF THESE, THE PROBLEM WAS IT LEFT TURNS AND RIGHT TURNS, IT WAS, IT WAS THE THROUGH VOLUMES GOING NORTH TO SOUTH ON SHILOH ROAD.

SO IN ORDER TO REALLY FIX THE BOTTLENECKS, WE REALLY HAVE TO WIDEN THE ROAD.

SO, UM, IT'S REALLY ONE OF THE LAST MAIN, YOU KNOW, SIX PROJECTED SIX LANE DIVIDED ARTERIALS IN THE CITY THAT WE HAVEN'T WIDENED A SIX LANE DIVIDED.

UM, THERE'S, THERE'S A COUPLE OF OTHER ONES ONE'S LINES, WHICH ACTUALLY IS INVOLVED IN THAT PROJECT.

AND I MEAN, THE 2019 BOND PROGRAM NOW, UM, THE OTHER ONE WILL BE, WOULD BE, UH, CAMPBELL ROAD UP NORTH, WHICH, UH, DOESN'T REALLY NEED TO, UH, TO BE SIX LANES.

IT'S TWO LANES NOW, AND IT PROBABLY CAN STAY TWO LANES FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

SO THIS IS REALLY THE, UM, PROBABLY FROM A CONGESTION STANDPOINT, THE PLACE TO PUT THE MONEY, UM, WANT TO POINT OUT TOO.

IT'S NOT JUST THE CONGESTION ON SHILOH THAT, THAT THE WIDENING THIS WOULD, WOULD EASE THE DOSE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT CONGESTED.

YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CAPACITY NORTH AND SOUTH.

IT CONSTRAINS THE AMOUNT OF SIGNAL TIMING THAT WE CAN GIVE TO THE EAST WEST NAME.

SO IT CREATES A CONGESTION EAST WEST ALSO.

UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, BY PROVIDING MORE, YOU KNOW, BY BECAUSE IT'S OVER CAPACITY, SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT MIGHT CHOOSE SHILOH ROAD AND UP ON JUPITER.

AND SO IT MAKES JUPITER MORE CONGESTED.

SO BY PROVIDING ADDITIONAL LANES ON NORTH SOUTH ON, ON SHILOH, IT ACTUALLY HELPS THE WHOLE AREA EAST, WEST, NORTH, AND SOUTH, AND, YOU KNOW, ON PARALLEL ROADWAYS.

UM, AND AGAIN, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A PROBLEM IT'S GOING TO GO AWAY.

WE WE'VE SEEN VOLUMES GO DOWN DURING COVID.

UM, BUT IN WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS, IS THE VOLUMES HAVE COME JUST ABOUT BACKUP TO NORMAL ALREADY.

UM, CERTAINLY THE PMP GETS THE AMP IS NOT QUITE THERE YET.

UM, WE'LL SEE, AFTER, AFTER THIS IS HOPEFULLY ALL OVER AND SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE AND VOLUMES WILL GET BACK TO NORMAL AND I'M SURE THAT THEY'LL CONTINUE TO INCREASE.

LIKE THEY ALWAYS HAVE.

I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF AMAZING THAT, UM, THE VOLUMES ARE COME BACK AS MUCH AS THEY HAVE IN THE, UM, IN THE PM.

UM, THE, THE COST OF THIS NEXT SECTION, WHICH IS, IS, IS PROBABLY A MILE AND A HALF, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, MAYBE NOT QUITE THAT FAR, UM, $36 MILLION, THAT INCLUDES RIGHT AWAY, CONSTRUCTION, DESIGN, EVERYTHING.

UM, WE LIKE TO SAY WE HAVE A 1.2, I THINK OF A POINTER HERE.

WE HAVE ABOUT 1.2 MILLION CREDITS,

[00:10:01]

UM, THAT TRANSLATES TO ABOUT A SIX, SIX AND A QUARTER MILLION AND, UH, JUST, UH, MATCHING DOLLARS THAT WE, THAT WE CAN ACCESS BECAUSE OF THOSE TDCS, UM, THAT LEAVES US WITH, WE NEED ANOTHER 29, ALMOST $30 MILLION, UH, ASSUMING THAT WE CAN SPLIT THAT WITH DALLAS COUNTY, UM, WE WOULD NEED TO COME UP WITH ABOUT TWO, JUST, JUST UNDER $3 MILLION, UM, IN ORDER IN ORDER TO DO THIS PROJECT.

SO IF WE CAN, IF WE CAN DO THIS, WE CAN GET THE DALLAS COUNTY MATCH, UM, BASICALLY FOR ABOUT $3 MILLION, WE CAN GET A $36 MILLION PROJECT.

UM, SO THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE ASK.

UM, THAT'S IN, IN, IF YOU ALL CONCUR, WE'D LIKE TO TAKE THIS TO THE, UH, THE COG, UM, THE, UH, THE PROJECTS REQUESTS ARE DUE BY JANUARY THE 30TH OR JANUARY THE 29TH, I THINK ACTUALLY.

UM, SO WE HAVE ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF TO, UH, TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

SO, UM, THAT'S ALL I GOT AND I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

UM, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, BUT, UH, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GO FIRST, JERRY OR ROBERT, JOHN, UM, PAUL, WHEN IT, SO THE ASK FROM THE RTC IS JUST TO ASK TO APPLY THE FUNDING FORMULAS MAY CHANGE GOING FORWARD.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT WE MAY FIND DALLAS COUNTY MAY BE WILLING TO KICK MORE IN, OR WE MAY FIND OTHER SOURCES.

YEAH.

AND WE PROBABLY WOULD ASK FOR THIS PROBABLY IN THE 20, 26 OR 2027, 20, 28 TIMEFRAME.

UM, JUST BECAUSE THAT THERE'LL BE AFTER THE CRIME, UH, BOND 2019 BOND IS COMPLETED, HOPEFULLY.

AND SO, UM, WE WOULD, WE WOULDN'T NEED THE FUNDS UNTIL THAT POINT.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THE FORMULA HAS CHANGED.

WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT THE, THE REQUEST THAT YOU MAKE TO THE RTC, YOU JUST HAVE TO SAY, WE HAVE THIS PROJECT, IT'S A $36 MILLION PROJECT THAT WE'D LIKE TO BE FUNDED.

RIGHT.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT IF, IF WE CAN CONVINCE, UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE CAN CONVINCE DALLAS COUNTY TO PUT IN MORE MONEY, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT LIMITED BY, BY MAKING THIS REQUEST NOW, I GUESS, OR FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE CAN ASK THE VA OR THE FEDERAL CAR FROM IT TO PUT IN MORE MONEY, BECAUSE THIS IMPROVES ACCESS TO THE NEW VA HOSPITAL UP THE WALNUT.

CAUSE I, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S GONNA, THIS IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR ACCESS PATHWAY THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FROM SIX 35, THEY'RE GOING TO GET ON SHILOH.

AND, AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER THING IN MY KIND OF TO DO IS TO ASK THAT, MAKE SURE THAT WE GET SIGNAGE AT SHILOH EXIT FOR THE VA HOSPITAL RIGHT NOW ACTUALLY WHAT'S THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY WORKING ON THAT RIGHT NOW.

I'M TRYING TO.

OKAY, GREAT.

SO I ASSUME THAT IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE PROJECTING SOMETHING SAY FOR 20, 26 OR 20, 24, OR WHENEVER, IF, IF, IF MORE MONEY COMES IN, IF MORE OPPORTUNITIES EITHER FEDERAL OR OTHERWISE COME IN, THEN WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT RESTRICTED HERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANY TIME IT'S, IT'S A PROBLEM IF WE GET MORE MONEY.

SO YEAH.

WE CAN ALWAYS ASK FOR MORE AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AND MICHAEL IS A GENIUS AT MOVING MONEY AROUND AND ADDING SOME HERE AND THERE AND DIFFERENT POTS.

AND SO, YEAH, THERE'S ALWAYS OTHER OPPORTUNITIES TO GET ALL OF THAT.

OKAY.

SO THE ONLY THING, SO WE'RE NOT MAKING, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO REQUEST TO, DO WE HAVE TO REQUEST A SPECIFIC NUMBER OF DOLLARS OR DID WE JUST SAY HERE'S OUR, HERE'S THE PROJECT THAT WE WOULD LIKE YOU GUYS TO WORK ON AND FUND? I THINK IT'S TO HAVE A DOLLAR AMOUNT.

AND I MEAN, WE, WE SHOULD GO AHEAD AND ASK FOR THE FULL AMOUNT NOW, SO, OKAY.

WE CAN FLICK UP IF WE END UP REPLACING THESE DOLLARS WITH SOME OTHER FUNDING SOURCE, THEN WE CAN ALWAYS DO THAT.

OKAY.

IF WE PUT IT ON A, CAN WE PUT IT ON AN EARLIER TIMEFRAME OR DO WE NEED TO PUT IT, I MEAN, WHAT'S THE SITE, THE FUNDING CYCLE ON THAT, OR DOES IT HAVE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, UH, I W WE CAN, WE CAN REQUEST A CERTAIN DATE IF WE WANT TO DO THAT RICH, UH, OR MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, IT'S, THESE PROJECTS ARE AS, YOU KNOW, VERY LONG AND COMPLEX.

AND I WERE THINKING THAT IT WILL NATURALLY TAKE, UM, A FEW YEARS JUST TO BE READY TO EVEN START TO START CONSTRUCTION.

AND

[00:15:01]

AS, AS IT WOULD HAPPEN, THAT'S ABOUT HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE FOR THE BOND PROGRAM TO START ROLLING OFF THE CURRENT BOND PROGRAM.

AND SO I TALKED TO BRIAN BRADFORD AND 26, 27, THAT'S A GOOD SWEET SPOT FOR OTHER DEBT FALLING OFF.

AND THESE NUMBERS CAN BE HAM HANDLED EITHER THROUGH CEO'S OR A BOND PROGRAM.

SO IT'S A GOOD TIME FINANCIALLY.

AND IT'S A GOOD TIME PRACTICALLY TO DO THESE THINGS, THIS DIFFICULT PROJECT.

NO, FOR SURE.

ANYTIME YOU'RE WIDENING, IT'S A VERY COMPLEX, I WOULD HOPE THAT MY HOPE IS THAT WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER BOND PROGRAM IN 2024.

UM, AND, AND THEN WE'LL BE ABLE TO, SO WE'LL BE ABLE TO TEE IT UP AND BE READY TO GO.

WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I KNOW WHAT THE PARAMETERS ARE.

AND ACTUALLY, I MEAN, KIND OF WHAT JOHN WAS SAYING, THERE'S IN 20, THE CURRENT PROJECT FROM MILLER TO KINGSLEY IS, I MEAN, FROM KINGSLEY MILLER HERE IS, UH, I BELIEVE THIS PROGRAM FOR 20, 24.

NOW WE'RE GOING THROUGH AND ENVIRONMENTAL RIGHT NOW WITH OUR ALIGNMENT STUDY.

AND WE'RE INCLUDING THIS SECTION IN THE LINE OF STUDY.

SO WE'RE A LITTLE AHEAD OF THE GAME, BUT THERE'S STILL RIGHT AWAY BY THEIRS.

IT'S LIKE JOHN SAID, IT'S JUST, IT TAKES A LITTLE WHILE TO WORK THROUGH JUST TO GET THESE THINGS DONE.

ESPECIALLY FOR SOME REASON, I HAD THOUGHT THAT THE, THE KINGSLEY TO MILLER PARK WAS, WAS COMING SOONER THAN THAT.

UM, BUT I KNOW IT'S A PRETTY COMPLEX PROCESS.

I KNOW WE'VE PUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE 2019 BOND MONEY IN THAT TO, TO DO ALL THE PREPARATORY WORK AND, AND AS SEAMLESS AS WE CAN MAKE IT TO JUST MOVE UP.

I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT ON SOME OF THE FOLKS WHO USE THOSE FACILITIES TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S, YOU KNOW, OUR OWN LITTLE , THAT'S CONSTANTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION, AT LEAST FOR AWHILE, BUT, UM, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.

ANY QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE ELSE JUST JUMP RIGHT IN, UH, THIS JURY.

I, I, UH, THAT, THAT WAS WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK WAS JUST HOW LONG IS IT ESTIMATED TO TAKE, TO DO EACH SECTION AND WILL THEY EAT IF WE'RE OUT THAT FAR RICH, IF LIKE YOU WERE THINKING, WELL, WILL THAT LEAVE US A GAP, OR WILL WE, I JUST, I WANT IT, IF WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, THIS LIKE, SAY IT'S A LONG DRAWN OUT PROJECT, WE'VE GOT TO FUND THIS THING AND KEEP IT MOVING THROUGH EACH SECTION.

AND SO THE TIMING TO ME IS, UH, IS ALSO A KIND OF CRITICAL, UH, TO GET THE FUNDING.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN START ANY TIME TOO EARLY TO BE ABLE TO CHASE FUNDING LIKE THIS.

I JUST, UH, I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE WE WERE WITH THE KINGSLEY TO MILLER SEGMENT AS FAR AS PROGRESS IN HOW FAR WE WERE ON ALL OF THAT ACTIVITY.

SO, BUT I AGREE.

I THINK, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD IN THIS MANNER OR, UH, TRYING TO FIND ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO OFFSET SOME THINGS AS WELL, BUT DEFINITELY REACH OUT TO THESE FUNDING SOURCES AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE.

YEAH.

JUST TO, UH, TO THROW A WRENCH IN, UH, AS, HAS THERE BEEN ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON POTENTIALLY, UH, SETTING SHALLOW ROAD IS THE NEW 78 OR IS THAT SO FAR OUTSIDE? THE, THE DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW THAT WE'RE JUST NOT EVEN WORRIED ABOUT IT, BECAUSE THEN I KNOW ONE OF THE OPTIONS INSTEAD OF RELINING 78, WAS TO SEE IF TXDOT WANTED SHALLOW ROAD FOR THAT DIRECT NORTH SOUTH CONNECTOR THAT MORRIS WAS TALKING ABOUT OR HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT OVER THE YEARS, UH, WITH ANY OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, IMPACT TO THAT DISCUSSION.

OR SHOULD WE JUST GO AHEAD AND PROCEED AS IF CHARLOTTE ROADS ARES TO OURS FOR THE NEAR TERM AND THE LONGTERM, AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO DO OUR THING.

UM, WE, WE HAVEN'T REALLY EXPLORED THAT IDEA.

I DON'T KNOW HOW, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD REALLY HELP US TO DO THAT.

OKAY.

AND IT HAD COME UP AND IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WAS SITTING IN THE BACK OF MY BRAIN AND I'M NOT PUSHING FOR IT.

I JUST WANTED TO GET IT OUT ON THE TABLE SO WE COULD DISMISS IT OR DISCUSS IT, DISMISSES A GOOD IDEA WITH YOU ON THAT ONE.

UH, I'M GOOD THERE.

OKAY.

AND DO WE KNOW, UM, WOULD THE SCOPE OF THIS TYPE OF PROJECT INCLUDE THE FLATTENING THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED AT, UH, FAIRDALE AND SHILOH, JUST SOUTH OF WALNUT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY STUDYING NOW.

AND WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT THEY ADDRESS THAT.

OKAY.

I KNOW THAT'S A GIANT, A GIANT ASK AS FAR AS COST GOES, IT'S REALLY GOING TO SUCK SO WELL NOW, WHEN, WHEN YOU REBUILD THE WHOLE

[00:20:01]

ROAD IS THE TIME TO DO THAT, SO AGREED OR WANTING TO MAKE SURE UNLESS THERE'S JUST SOME, YOU KNOW, UNLESS IT'S A BILLION DOLLARS TO DO THAT IT'S WORKING, THAT GETS DONE.

OKAY.

WELL, UM, I, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS SEGMENT OF SHILOH'S IS PRETTY MUCH FULLY IN MY DISTRICT.

I FULLY SUPPORT THIS.

UM, LOVE THE IDEA.

AND I LOVE THE FACT THAT WE HAVE SO MANY BUCKETS TO CHOOSE FROM AS FAR AS FUNDING GOES, UH, IT'S MONEY THAT'S SITTING ON THE TABLE, SO LET'S GO GET IT.

THAT'S WHAT I SAY.

ALL RIGHT.

I THINK WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT ON THAT.

OR REFER THAT OUT TO THE FULL COUNCIL.

YES.

UH HUH.

BUT YEAH, MR. CHAIR, I WAS GOING TO, UM, IF, IF, IF IT PLEASES THE COMMITTEE TO APPROACH THE FULL COUNCIL FIRST MEETING IN THE FIRST WORK SESSION, UH, IT'S A LONG TERM COMMITMENT.

IT'S A BIG COMMITMENT FOR THE CITY, BUT IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

AND IF WE COULD ASK YOU TO PRESENT THIS TO THE COUNCIL, THEN PAUL WILL HAVE THE TIME HE NEEDS TO SUBMIT IT TO COG.

ABSOLUTELY.

NO, I IT'S.

UH, YOU DO NOT TURN AWAY.

I MEAN, MUCH, LIKE WE TALKED LAST MONTH ABOUT, UH, THE SIDEWALK PROGRAM THEY WANT TO DO AROUND, UH, AROUND THE STATIONS OR THE ONE STATION THAT YOU DON'T WHEN YOU HAVE, WHEN YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF OPPORTUNITY TO GET.

AND I THINK WE WILL GET IT WHEN YOU GET THAT KIND OF COMMITMENT TO, FOR NEARLY $40 MILLION PROJECT OF FITS, MOSTLY COMPRISED OF OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.

THERE IS NO MORE IMPORTANT THING THAN, THAN THEN IDENTIFYING AND BRINGING OPM INTO THE, INTO THE CITY.

YEP.

GREAT.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

LET'S UH, MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE THEN, WHICH HAS CONTINUED DISCUSSIONS ON REVENUE STREAM AND PROGRAMMING FOR DRAINAGE AND FLOODING REMEDIATION PROGRAMS. AND WE'VE GOT ABOUT 20 MINUTES COUNSEL.

WE MAY NOT GET TO, WE MAY NOT COMPLETE THIS ITEM AND WE MAY NOT GET TO THE THIRD ITEM, BUT LET'S GET WHAT WE CAN IN ON THIS TODAY.

UM, THIS IS MICHAEL POLO CHECK SCREEN.

I DON'T HEAR HIM THOUGH.

WELL, MICHAEL YOU'RE YOU'RE MUTED.

I UNMUTE YOU.

HERE WE GO.

NOPE.

NOPE.

I, I THINK COMMUNITY, I THINK I PROBABLY DID SOMETHING BY UNMUTING HIM.

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? NOW WE CAN HEAR YOU.

OKAY.

WHEN I SHARED MY SCREEN, MY LITTLE HEADING AT THE BOTTOM DISAPPEARED TO UNMUTE, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THERE.

UM, GOOD EVENING, COUNCILMAN.

UM, UH, I'D LIKE TO CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSION ON, UM, WE HAD CODE A THROUGH E AND WE, WE DISCUSSED CODE A, UM, THE LAST GO AROUND AS RECALL WATER IN HOUSE TO LOCALIZED FLOODING, WHICH IS NON CREEK RELATED.

AND TONIGHT I WAS JUST GOING TO CONTINUE DOWN THE LIST WITH THE CODE BLUE.

THIS IS THE EROSION ISSUES ALONG CREEKS AND STREAMS AND CHANNELS.

AND THIS WILL ACTUALLY CAVEAT INTO THE DRAINAGE PARTICIPATION, UH, PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE.

AND I WANT TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT I DON'T WANT TO CONFUSE TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION WITH ONE.

THAT'S GOING TO BE A SUBSEQUENT DISCUSSION ON CODE D, WHICH IS WATER AND HOUSE DUE TO CREEK FLOODING.

THIS IS CREEK EROSION AND NOT FLOODING.

SO I WANT TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO THAT THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT PROGRAMS. UM, THE CREEK FLOODING, WHEN WE GET TO THAT DISCUSSION, THAT WILL BE THE DISCUSSION WITH THE, UM, FLOOD PRONE PROPERTIES THAT THE FUNDING WAS SET ASIDE IN THE 2019 BOND PROGRAM.

SO, BUT FOR TONIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE EROSION ISSUES.

UM, AS FAR AS CODE B AND THE DRAINAGE PARTICIPATION PROGRAM, WE'LL BE DISCUSSING SINGLE PROPERTY PARTICIPATION, MULTIPLE PROPERTIES, UH, THE CRITERIA FOR THE DRAINAGE PARTICIPATION PROJECTS, UH, THE COST SHARE THE PAYMENT OPTIONS AS WELL AS THE MAINTENANCE AND ALL OF THIS IS BASICALLY COMING FROM THE ORDINANCE THAT WAS REVISED IN 2019 EVALUATION

[00:25:01]

AND IMPLEMENTATION THE EROSION.

WHEN, WHEN WE GET A CALL ON THIS, THE EROSION ISSUE IS EVALUATED BASED ON THE CRITERIA THAT'S ESTABLISHED IN THE, IN THE PARTICIPATION ORDINANCE, WHICH WE'LL, I'LL GET TO IN A FEW MORE SLIDES, UM, SHOULD THE EROSION ISSUE QUALIFIED THE CITY OFFERS TO PARTICIPATE? AND IF THE ISSUE DOES NOT QUALIFY, OBVIOUSLY WE NOTIFY THE OWNER AND LET THEM KNOW THAT IT DOESN'T QUALIFY.

IF THE OWNER'S INTERESTED, A PROPOSAL IS SOLICITED, UM, FROM A TERM CONTRACTOR FOR A TURNKEY PROJECT.

AND THEN, UM, SHOULD THE OWNER AGREE WITH THE COST? WE EXECUTE A PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT AFTER IT'S DRAFTED BETWEEN THE PROPERTY OWNER AND THE CITY.

ONCE THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS EXECUTED THAT PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT, WE THEN, UM, CONTRACT WITH OUR TERM CONTRACTOR FOR A TURNKEY PROJECT.

THE PROJECT IS THEN DESIGNED, REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY BOTH THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNER, AND THEN IT'S CONSTRUCTED.

AND THEN ASSESSMENTS ISSUED TO PROPERTY OWNER AFTER COMPLETION.

THIS IS A VERY CONDENSED VERSION OF WHAT THE ORDINANCE ACTUALLY SAYS.

UM, MULTIPLE PROPERTIES IS VERY SIMILAR PROCESS.

AGAIN, IT'S EVALUATED ACCORDING TO THE DRAINS PARTICIPATION ORDINANCE, SHOULD THE SOLUTION REQUIRE ADDITIONAL PROPERTY OWNERS TO BE INVOLVED? THE ORIGINAL, THE ORIGINAL APPLICANT IS NOTIFIED AND PROVIDED A COPY OF WHAT WE CALL A PETITION.

THE PETITION INCLUDES ALL OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS NAMES THAT THAT NEED TO BE INVOLVED.

LET'S SAY THERE'S ONE PROPERTY OWNER COMES IN AND HE NEEDS, WE NEED TWO OR THREE OTHERS.

HE MAY BE ON A BEND OF A CREEK, OR SHE MAY BE ON THE BEND OF A CREEK AND YOU ACTUALLY NEED TO GET TWO OR THREE OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS INVOLVED, UM, TO REALLY PROTECT THAT BANK AND ARMOR IT ALONG A, AN ESPECIALLY AN OUTSIDE BEND OF A CHANNEL.

UM, WE PROVIDE THIS PETITION WITH ALL THE OWNERS NAMES AND ADDRESSES AND LINK THE FRONT ENDS, ET CETERA, AND THE PROPERTY OWNER, THE ORIGINAL, UM, APPLICANT IS, I GUESS, GIVEN WE, WE GIVE THAT PERSON THE, THE NOTICE THAT YOU NEED TO GO GET THE OWNERS TO ACTUALLY SIGN OFF ON THIS PETITION AND PRESENT IT BACK TO THE CITY, SHOULD ALL THE OWNERS AGREE THE CITY, THEN WE'LL PROCEED IN THE SAME GENERAL PROCESS AS IF IT WERE A SINGLE PROPERTY, BUT WE'LL KEEP EACH PERSON'S COSTS SEPARATE.

AND WE DEAL WITH EACH PERSON ON A CONTRACT, ET CETERA, WE JUST EXECUTE TWO, THREE, FOUR CONTRACTS, WHATEVER WE NEED TO.

THEN WE EXECUTE ONE CONTRACT WITH THE CONTRACTOR AND THEN WE'LL HAVE IT ALL THE PROPERTY OWNERS REVIEW IT.

AND ONCE EVERYBODY'S IN AGREEMENT, WE CONSTRUCT IT, ET CETERA, AND MOVE FORWARD.

AND THEN THE ASSESSMENTS NOW SHOULD THE AFFECTED PROPERTY OWNERS, NOT ALL AGREE.

UH, THE ORIGINAL APPLICANT AT LEAST NEEDS TO PROVIDE.

WE, WE PROVIDE THE PETITION TO THE ORIGINAL APPLICANT AND THEY HAVE TO OBTAIN AT LEAST 51% OF THE SIGNATURES OR 51% OF THE TOTAL ABUDDING BUDDING FRONTAGE ALONG THE CREEK.

UM, SO THAT WE CAN THEN IN TURN, UH, SUBMIT THIS TO COUNCIL'S CONSIDERATION FOR THE INITIATION OF WHAT WE CALL A DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT.

UM, THE SUCCESSFUL PETITION IS RECEIVED ALL NECESSARY.

DOCUMENTATION IS PREPARED AND INCLUDING THIS INCLUDES ESTIMATES FOR EACH PROPERTY OWNER, THE LINK, THE END TO THE OWNER'S ADDRESS AND NAME.

AND THEN WE SCHEDULE IT ON A COUNCIL WORK SESSION, UH, FOR COUNCIL.

AND THEN WE'LL GIVE A, BASICALLY A VERBAL BRIEFING ON THIS ITEM FOR CONSIDERATION AND APPROVAL AT A SUBSEQUENT REGULAR SESSION FOR THE COUNCIL TO INITIATE WHAT WE CALL THE DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT.

FROM THAT POINT, IT OPERATES MUCH MORE LIKE THE ORIGINAL ONE, A TURNKEY CONTRACT IS THEN EXECUTED WITH THE TERM CONTRACTOR.

AND THE PROJECT IS DESIGNED REVIEWED BY BOTH THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS, AND THEN CONSTRUCTED AND ASSESSMENTS ISSUED TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS AFTER COMPLETION.

SO THEY ALL FOLLOW THE GENERAL SAME PATH, BUT IT BECOMES A LITTLE MORE CLOUDED WHEN THERE'S MULTIPLE PROPERTY OWNERS AND NOT ALL OF THEM PARTICIPATE, DRAIN AND PARTICIPATION CRITERIA.

I WAS MENTIONING THIS BEFORE.

THERE ARE EIGHT CRITERIA THAT WE INCLUDED IN THE ORDINANCE, UM, THAT WE DID NOT HAVE IN THERE BEFORE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO, TO BRIEF YOU ON, WE, WE BRIEF THE COUNCIL ON THIS WHEN WE CHANGED THE ORDINANCE, UM, ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, ALMOST TWO YEARS AGO, DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT, UM, COSTS CANNOT EXCEED 50% OF THE DALLAS COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICTS, TOTAL PROPERTY VALUE.

THIS INCLUDES A LAND AND IMPROVEMENTS.

THE HOME VALUE, UM, ITEM

[00:30:01]

TO THE PROPOSED DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT MUST BE LOCATED ENTIRELY WITHIN THE PROPERTIES OWNED BY THE PARTICIPANTS IN A DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT OR, UH, IN AN EASEMENT THAT IS VOLUNTARILY GRANTED BY A PROPERTY OWNER.

THAT'S NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT PROJECT.

THERE'S A FEW WHERE THERE'S PRIVATE PROPERTY, UH, THAT MAY BE BACKING UP TO SOME PROPERTY OWNERS, BUT THE, BUT THE CHANNEL AFFECTS THE PROPERTY OWNERS, ALTHOUGH IT MAY BE OWNED ON A DIFFERENT PROPERTY.

SO IT'S REALLY COMPLICATED.

WE'VE HAD A FEW OF THOSE COME UP IN THE LAST FEW YEARS AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS, UNFORTUNATELY, NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER TAKEN OFF BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET THE EASEMENTS FROM THE PROPERTY OWNERS.

UM, NO DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT PROJECT SHALL BE APPROVED, WHICH CREATES ANY INCREASE IN THE HUNDRED YEAR WATER SURFACE ELEVATIONS, UH, IN ANY FEMA AND OR CORE COSTS THAT NEED TO BE REVIEWED BY EITHER EITHER ENTITY WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE COST PARTICIPATION.

THIS ALSO WILL INCLUDE ANY MITIGATION THAT THE CORPS OR FEMA MAY REQUIRE.

THOSE COSTS WILL ALSO BE INCLUDED IN THE, IN THE COST PARTICIPATION APPLICATIONS FOR EROSION LOSS DUE TO SHEET FLOW ACROSS A LOT, AS OPPOSED TO ON A WATERCOURSE SHALL NOT BE APPROVED.

THIS IS WHERE CREEK BANK A CREEK, UM, DURING FLOOD EVENT MAY GET OUT OF ITS BANKS AND SHEET FLOW ACROSS SOMEONE'S PROPERTY IN THEY'RE LOSING THEIR, THEIR SURFACE DIRT IN THEIR YARDS.

UM, THERE'S NOT REALLY A LOT WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S, THAT'S MORE OF A VEGETATION ISSUE AND ESTABLISHING THE PROPER VEGETATION ON THEIR PROPERTIES AND, AND NOT REALLY AN EROSION ISSUE FOR THE DETECTING THE CREEK BANK.

UM, ITEM FIVE APPLICATIONS ARISING DUE TO NORMAL SETTLEMENT OF SOIL OR SUBSIDENCE, WHETHER DUE TO SETTLEMENT OVER TIME OR, OR NORMAL SOIL MOVEMENT FROM VARIABLE MOISTURE CONTENT OR SEASONAL SHIFTING SHALL NOT BE APPROVED.

UH, WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF THEM, OH, I HAVE, I'M HAVING ISSUES WITH ALL THIS, THIS, UM, SETTLEMENT IN MY BACKYARD.

IT HAS TO BE DUE TO THE CREEK.

WELL, IN A LOT OF CASES, IT'S NOT, IT'S JUST NORMAL SUBSIDENCE.

MAYBE THEY'VE REMOVED A TREE AND THERE'S, UM, THE ROOTS, THEY, THEY JUST GROUND THE STUMP DOWN AND THE ROOTS ARE ROTTING AND IT'S SUBSIDING, AND IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE NEAR A CREEK BANK.

UM, WE'VE HAD THAT, UM, SCENARIO BEFORE APPLICATIONS ARISING DUE TO FAILURE OF EXISTING RETAINING WALLS DUE TO AGE OR STRUCTURAL DEFICIENCY AND NOT RELATED TO EROSION SHALL NOT BE APPROVED.

UM, A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE THE WALL IS FAILING, IT'S, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE EROSION.

AND SOMETIMES IT MAY BE AN OLD TIMBER WALL.

THAT'S TRULY JUST BEYOND ITS LIFESPAN AND ROTTING AND DETERIORATING.

UM, AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY DUE TO EROSION AND THAT, THAT THE CHANNEL BANKS ERODING OR ARE UNDERMINING THEM, UH, THE WALL UNDERNEATH, UM, A STRUCTURE TO BE PROTECTED MUST BE LOCATED NO FURTHER THAN THREE TIMES.

THE MAXIMUM VERTICAL HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED WALL AS MEASURED FROM THE TOP OF WALL.

UM, SO THIS IS BASICALLY A THREE TO ONE RATIO.

IF YOU WILL, THE STRUCTURE TO BE PROTECTED IS A RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL BUILDING, SWIMMING POOL, NON MOVABLE STORAGE BUILDING, DETACHED GARAGE, NON MOVABLE MACHINERY, SERVING A BUILDING OR OTHER SIMILAR STRUCTURE, FENCES TREES, LANDSCAPING AMENITIES, SIMILAR FEATURES DO NOT QUALIFY AS STRUCTURES TO BE PROTECTED.

AND THEN FINALLY, CINDY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO DISAPPROVE ANY PROJECT AS DETERMINED BY THE DIRECTOR OF ENGINEERING, WHICH EXPOSES THE CITY TO POTENTIAL LIABILITY DUE TO RISK OF DAMAGE OF EXISTING STRUCTURES.

WE, WE PUT THIS CAVEAT IN HERE BECAUSE WE, THERE MAY BE A STRUCTURE THAT'S BEING SUPPORTED BY A RETAINING WALL ALONG A CREEK BANK.

THAT ONCE YOU REMOVE THE RETAINING WALL, YOU COULD DAMAGE THE STRUCTURE, MAYBE A SWIMMING POOL, OR, UH, ANOTHER, UM, UH, OUT, OUT PARCEL STRUCTURE, A BUILDING MOTHER-IN-LAW'S HOME OR SOMETHING THAT ONCE YOU REMOVE THAT WALL, YOU COULD DAMAGE THE FOUNDATION OF THE, OF THE STRUCTURE OR, OR THE SWIMMING POOL.

AND THEN FOR THE COST SHARE, UM, IN, FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, THIS ALSO INCLUDES, UM, BUILDINGS OF WORSHIP.

IT'S A 50 50 COST SHARE SPLIT BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNER AND FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, WHICH ALSO INCLUDES MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.

IT'S A 67% BY THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND 33% OUR SHARE SPLIT AND THE ACTUAL PAYMENT OPTIONS.

LUMP SUM IS ALWAYS AN OPTION, WHICH THE CITY LIKES THE MOST OBVIOUSLY.

UM, BUT WE HAVE, WE REALIZE A LOT OF THESE ARE VERY EXPENSIVE PROJECTS

[00:35:02]

AND A LOT OF THESE PROPERTY OWNERS WANT TO PAY THIS OUT IN, IN PAYMENTS.

SO WE ACTUALLY MODIFIED THIS.

IT USED TO BE ONLY 36 MONTHS PERIOD, BUT WE, WE STRUCTURED IT VERY SIMILAR TO THE SIDEWALK PROGRAM.

AND IT'S AT AN INTEREST RATE NOT TO EXCEED THE MAXIMUM INTEREST RATE PAID BY THE CITY ON BOND FUNDS, FROM WHICH THE CONSTRUCTION MONIES ARE OBTAINED.

AND SO BETWEEN 2000 AND 9,999, UM, IT'S A 36 MONTH PAYMENT THAT THEY CAN MAKE 36 MONTHS OR 36 EQUAL PAYMENTS.

AND THEN IF IT'S BETWEEN 10,000 AND 19,999, IT'S 48 MONTHS AND ANYTHING OVER 20,000 WOULD BE, THEY COULD PAY IT OFF IN 60 MONTH INSTALLMENTS.

AND THEN FINALLY THE MAINTENANCE, I MEAN, I KNOW WE'RE PRESSED FOR TIME.

I'M TRYING TO GET ALL OF YOU GENTLEMEN, TO YOUR NEXT MEETINGS, UH, UPON COMPLETION OF ANY DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICTS.

UM, THE TYPICAL WEEDING PICKING UP LITTER, FERTILIZING MOWING IRRIGATION IS ALL ON THE, UM, PROPERTY OWNER AFTER THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE, OF THE IMPROVEMENTS.

THESE ARE ALL ON THE PROPERTY OWNER TO MAINTAIN AROUND THE STRUCTURES AND PROPERLY MAINTAIN THEM OF, OF TYPICAL GROUND COVER, ET CETERA.

AND THEN ONE OTHER ONE THAT WE ACTUALLY PUT IN HERE THAT WAS APPROVED IN THE REVISION OF THE ORDINANCE IN 2019, IS THAT THE CITY SHALL PROVIDE DRAINAGE AND EROSION CONTROL MAINTENANCE FOR THE STRUCTURAL IMPROVEMENTS TO THE DRAINAGE WAY FOR A PERIOD OF NOT MORE THAN 10 YEARS AFTER SUBSTANTIAL COMPLETION AT THE END OF THE TEN-YEAR MAINTENANCE PERIOD, THE OWNERSHIP OF MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITY TO BECOME THAT OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS AND THE CITY'S MAINTENANCE OBLIGATION SHALL TERMINATE.

AND BOTH OF THESE QUOTES COME DIRECTLY FROM, UH, THE ORDINANCE.

AND WITH THAT, I KNOW IT WAS BRIEF.

IT WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION.

I'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE AT THIS.

HOW MANY TIMES HAS IT BEEN USED, THE DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT STUFF AND THE PETITION AND ALL THAT, HAS IT EVER BEEN DONE SUCCESSFULLY IN THIS DECADE, THIS PAST DECADE? OH YEAH.

WE, WE, THE, IT, IT'S TYPICALLY MOSTLY SINGLE PROPERTIES THAT WE'VE HAD IN MORE RECENT YEARS.

WE WE'VE ONLY HAD MAYBE ONE OR TWO, MAYBE THREE WHERE WE'VE HAD A COUPLE OF NEIGHBORS THAT AGREED, BUT AGAIN, EVERYBODY WAS IN AGREEMENT.

THE LAST TIME A DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT WAS EXECUTED WHERE WE HAD TO FORCE SOMEBODY INTO IT.

THAT WAS PROBABLY BACK IN LATE NINETIES, EARLY TWO THOUSANDS.

I CAN'T REMEMBER WHERE WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD TO FORCE SOMEBODY INTO A DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT.

OKAY.

WELL, I MEAN, I APPRECIATE THAT.

THERE'S A LOT OF THOUGHTFUL PROCESS THAT YOU YOU'VE MENTIONED IN THAT, UH, UH, THAT YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY COMPLETE AND STEP-WISE ABOUT EVERYTHING.

I'M JUST NOT SURE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE OPENING UP THIS CAN OF WORMS AND LOOKING AT IT IS, YOU KNOW, HOW USEFUL IS THE PROCESS THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS SINCE WE'VE KIND OF MATURED AS A CITY IN, IN OUR, UH, OUR INFRASTRUCTURE IS WHAT IT IS AT THIS POINT.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KINDA WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD THE PRIOR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT, UH, DIFFERENT FUNDING MECHANISMS FOR THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS, BUT OKAY, THAT'S ALL I HAD.

THANK YOU, JERRY.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO, I DON'T.

AT THIS POINT, I REALLY DON'T RICH.

UM, IF I MAY, UH, WE, WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR ANY CHANGES.

UM, WE'VE DEALT WITH THIS QUITE A BIT WITH COUNCIL MEMBER SMITH.

AND THE PROBLEM THAT TENDS TO HAPPEN IS IF YOU'VE GOT A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO HAVE MORE THAN TWO PROPERTIES AND THERE'S, UH, AN OWNER THAT'S NOT INTERESTED AND, UH, AND THE PROJECT CAN'T BE DONE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO LEVY ASSESSMENTS.

AND, AND OCCASIONALLY THAT, THAT PRESENTS A PROBLEM BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A PRACTICAL WAY TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE.

THE ORDINANCE ALLOWS FOR THE LEGALLY, THESE ARE SOME CHALLENGES THAT WE'VE, HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO OVERCOME, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE THAT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE THAT WORK.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE ONLY I WANTED TO BRING UP THAT THAT'S THE ISSUE THAT COMES UP WITH THIS PROGRAM, BUT WE'VE DONE A LOT OF REALLY GOOD SUCCESSFUL PROJECTS WITH THIS PARTICIPATION.

[00:40:08]

I WOULD LIKE TO, AT SOME POINT, SEE WHERE THOSE, IF, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE HAD A MAP OF SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST, I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO SEE, UM, WHERE OVER, I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG LAST 10 OR 15 YEARS OR SO WE'VE DONE THESE PARTICIPATION PROJECTS AND, UM, AND JUST SEE WHERE THAT'S GONE, OR IF THERE ARE OTHER LIMITATIONS ON THESE PROJECTS, PARTICULARLY ON THE SINGLE ONES, UM, YOU KNOW, IS THE, YOU, DO WE FIND THAT THE, THE COST SHARE AMOUNT IS A DETERRENT OR ARE THERE OTHER THINGS THAT, AND THAT'S MY THING.

SOME OF THESE PROJECTS ARE RELATIVELY, I MEAN, OR RELATIVELY EXPENSIVE.

UM, I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, MY NEIGHBOR HAD ASKED, ASKED ABOUT ONE AND I THINK THE, I THINK THE COST, I THINK HE HAD BOTH SIDES OF THE BANK.

AND, AND I THINK THE QUOTE WAS, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS HIS, UH, HIS CONTRIBUTION WOULD HAVE BEEN 80,000 OR IF THAT WAS THE TOTAL COST OF THE PROJECT.

AND, AND I'VE, I'VE WORRIED THAT AT SOME OF THESE, UH, AT SOME OF THESE AREAS, IT'S BECOMING SOMEWHAT COST PROHIBITIVE.

UM, AND ALSO DOES, YOU KNOW, IS TO WHAT EXTENT DOES THE VALUATION FACTOR KICK IN, PARTICULARLY IN SOME OF OUR, OUR LOWER, UM, LOWER VALUED NEIGHBORHOODS? ARE WE, DO WE SEE A LOT OF APPLICATIONS WHERE IT'S LIKE, YEAH, THE COST WOULD EXCEED 50% OF THE CURRENT EVALUATION OF YOUR HOUSE WE'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD THAT HAPPEN A COUPLE OF TIMES, UM, SINCE THIS NEW ORDINANCE HAS BEEN ADOPTED WITH THE 50%.

UM, BUT YES, UH, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE DEEPER THE CHANNEL OR DEEPER THE CREEK, UH, THE MORE EXPENSIVE THAT WALL'S GOING TO BE, IT HAS TO BE TALLER.

AND THEN YOU GET INTO A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS TO MAKE THAT WALL, UM, OR THAT ARMORING, UH, STABLE WHEN YOU HIT, WHEN YOU, AS, AS THE HIGHER, THE HIGHER THE WALL GOES.

SO OBVIOUSLY WHERE WE'VE HAD THE MOST PARTICIPATION ARE ON SMALLER CHANNELS THAT ARE ONLY MAYBE EIGHT, YOU KNOW, FIVE, EIGHT, 10 FEET DEEP.

THOSE ARE THE, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT REALLY WORK REALLY WELL.

WE'VE HAD A LOT OF PARTICIPATION ON THOSE.

OKAY.

I DO HAVE A QUESTION.

UH, IF I COULD JUMP IN JUST ON THESE ARE GOOD THOUGHTS AND I HADN'T THOUGHT OF IT, BUT DOES, I MEAN, AT SOME POINT THE, AT SOME POINT THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTIES THAT, UH, BUT, UH, UH, CHANNEL, UH, ARE, ARE GOING TO BECOME, UH, SUCH THAT IT'S ALMOST LIKE IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING THAT THE PROBLEM'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO GROW, BUT IF YOU START TO LOOK AT THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTIES THAT WE'RE PROTECTING VERSUS THE COST OF THE PROJECT, UH, AND, AND THE VALUE D IT'S ALMOST LIKE IT'S KIND OF LIKE REALLY, IS IT WORTH IT? AND THEN SECOND, WHAT DO WE DO WHEN WE START TO HAVE EROSION ALONG THESE TRIBUTARIES OR DRAINAGE OR AREAS WHERE THEY EAT INTO THE PROPERTY, TO THE EXTENT THAT WE'RE NOW DAMAGING, UH, THE STRUCTURE OR, OR SET, UH, ASSOCIATED, UH, FENCING OR WHATEVER, IT ALMOST DEVALUES THE PROPERTY TO THE POINT WHERE IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO, TO, UH, SPEND THE MONEY ON IT.

AND, UH, ISN'T, IS THERE SOME SORT OF CONDEMNATION PROCESS THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT AT SOME POINT HERE, UH, OR WHAT, WELL, THAT'S A TOUGH THING TO DO, BUT GOSH, UM, GO AHEAD, JOHN.

SORRY.

I JUST, WELL, I, I, I KNOW WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO BE DONE HERE, BUT MICHAEL AND HIS TEAM HAD BEEN WORKING FOR A FEW MONTHS ON THAT VERY QUESTION.

THAT'S WHAT THE WHOLE FLOOD PRONE PROPERTY FUND, UH, THAT, THAT'S THE THOUGHT THAT GENERATED THAT, THAT INCLUSION IN THE BOND PROGRAM FOR, FOR FLOODING AND FOR EROSION AND MICHAEL, I THINK YOU SAID YOU NEED A COUPLE OF MONTHS, UH, MAYBE FEBRUARY TALK ABOUT THAT WITH SOME EXAMPLES WE WERE TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER, UM, WHERE OUR OUTLINE RIGHT NOW, WE'RE JUST WORKING ON A ROUGH OUTLINE FOR THE ORDINANCE FOR THAT WE'VE, UM, BEEN RESEARCHING A LOT OF OTHER CITIES THAT ALREADY HAVE ORDINANCES IN PLACE OR OTHER ENTITIES.

UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE HARRIS COUNTY FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT.

THEY HAVE SOMETHING THERE'S ALSO A NUMBER OF OTHER PLACES THAT WE'VE RESEARCHED.

AND, UH, INSTEAD

[00:45:01]

OF RECREATING IT, WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT'S WORKING BEST FOR SOME OF THESE OTHER LOCATIONS AND TRYING TO PLAGIARIZE A LITTLE BIT TO WHERE WE DON'T REINVENT THE WHEEL.

AND SO WE WE'VE BRAINSTORMED ON THAT.

WE HAVE KIND OF AN OUTLINE THAT JOHN, YOU AND I NEED TO PROBABLY SIT DOWN AND TAKE A LOOK AT AND SEE IF WE'RE HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

AND THEN HOPEFULLY IN PROBABLY ANOTHER MONTH OR TWO, MAYBE WE CAN PUT TOGETHER A LITTLE BIT BETTER, MORE DETAILED OUTLINE THAT WE CAN PRESENT TO THE COMMITTEE.

OKAY.

MOVE FROM A LONG TERM.

IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE THAT, UM, I KNOW AUSTIN HAS A VERY COMPREHENSIVE PROGRAM, UH, AND I, I KNOW WE NEED TO GET GOING, BUT, BUT I'D CERTAINLY LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT THEIR PROGRAM.

AND THERE'S SOME POLICY QUESTIONS.

YEAH.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I'VE GOT BETTY, BETTY ROBERTS WHO LIVES DOWN NEXT TO ONE OF THE BRIDGES, YOU KNOW, SHE'S LOST SINCE SAME.

WE HAD MOVED IN, SHE WAS TELLING ME ONE DAY THEY LOST AT LEAST 15 FEET.

UM, AND YOU KNOW, WE ACTUALLY DID PUT A WALL IN THERE BECAUSE SHE'S, UH, CAUSE SHE ABUTS, UH, A BRIDGE.

AND SO TO PROTECT THE BRIDGE, WE PUT A WALL IN BECAUSE WE'D HAD TREES AND OTHER STUFF COMING UP ROOTED AND COMING DOWN AND HITTING THE BRIDGE.

UM, WE PUT A WALL IN, BUT THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS.

AND IT'S LIKE, WHAT, WHAT'S THE LONGTERM? YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THESE, ABOUT THESE PROPERTIES THAT ARE ERODING AND WILL FALL IN? AND HOW DO YOU ASSESS THE VALUE OF THE LONG-TERM VALUE ON THOSE? AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF 50% OF THE CURRENCY CAD VALUE IS THE MEASURE OR 50% OF WHAT THE D CAD VALUE WOULD BE, OR THE LONG-TERM DECAF VALUE IF WE ACTUALLY ARMORED THE BANKS AND THEN YOU HAVE THE OTHER, THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT BETTY ROBERTS IS FAULTED, HER PROPERTY IS ERODING, OR THAT IT'S EVEN ERODING AT A FASTER RATE BECAUSE YOU HAVE WATER.

I MEAN, IT'S STORMWATER FROM OTHER PEOPLE AND OTHER PROPERTIES THAT'S AFFECTING THESE PROPERTIES.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU GET INTO THE, BEHIND THE FUNDING MECHANISMS, BUT ANYWAY, WELL, ALL RIGHT, WELL, WE'LL SAY THAT DISCUSSION THOUGH, MORE DETAILED FOR, FOR ANOTHER DAY.

AND WITH THAT, IT IS FIVE 50.

SO WE'RE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND, I APOLOGIZE, MS. MORALES.

UM, BUT LET'S GO AHEAD.

WE WON'T GET TO ITEM THREE TODAY.

UM, BUT CERTAINLY WE'LL HAVE SOME OTHER, WE'LL HAVE DISCUSSION ON 40 NEXT MONTH ABOUT THAT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT.

AND WITH THAT, THEN WE ARE ADJOURNED.

IF I DON'T SEE, Y'ALL HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR AND, UH, I'LL SEE THE REST OF YOU ALL IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.