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BORDER

[Development Services Committee Meeting on February 22, 2021.]

[00:00:02]

DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE.

THIS IS A FEBRUARY THE 22ND FOR A FOUR OH ONE.

AND, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE MYSELF, THE CHAIRMAN, DYLAN HENDRICK.

WE HAVE COUNCILMAN ROBERT VERA AND COUNCILMAN RICKY MCNEIL AS WELL.

YEAH.

FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA.

IT'S THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE JANUARY 25TH MEETING.

I MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE MANAGE AND WHAT WE DISCUSSED.

OKAY.

MOTION BY COUNCILMAN VERA.

SECOND THAT MOTION SECOND BY HIM.

COUNCILMAN MCNEIL.

ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

MINUTES ARE APPROVED.

AND FIRST TIME WE HAVE UP FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION IS REVIEW OF THE GDC REQUIREMENT FOR MASONRY POLL CLADDINGS OF CARPORTS.

IS THIS MR. GARREN? DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON THIS ONE? WELL, UM, YES, UH, HUNTSMAN, LET ME, UM, I'LL JUST SHARE SCREEN A LITTLE, JUST SIMPLY SHARE THE, UM, CURRENT REGULATION AND THE GDC.

SO WE ALL KIND OF LOOKING AT THE SAME THING HERE.

YOU SEE THAT? OKAY.

I DO NOW.

YES.

OKAY, GREAT.

UM, YEAH, SO, UM, THIS, UH, THE REQUIREMENT REGARDING CARPORTS, UM, HAVING TO HAVE THEIR COLUMNS, UM, ESSENTIALLY AS WE'VE INTERPRETED WRAPPED IN SOME TYPE OF MASONRY, UH, FIRST OF ALL, THIS IS NOT FOR SINGLE FAMILY.

UH, THIS IS NOT FOR YOUR EVERYDAY SINGLE FAMILY HOME.

THIS IS JUST FOR IT'S FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, BUT ALSO FOR MULTI-FAMILIES SPECIFICALLY, IF YOU CAN SEE THIS, THIS IS FROM FRANKLIN LEGAL ONLINE FOR THE GDC, UM, THE REQUIREMENTS FOR RESIDENTIAL, UH, OR EXCUSE ME.

UM, IT, IT CLARIFIES THE CARPORTS, UH, LOCATED MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS, INCLUDING SENIOR LIVING FACILITIES MUST REQUIRE, MUST COMPLY WITH THE BELOW SECTION 2.60, WHICH IS DOWN HERE.

SO SPECIFICALLY THE, UM, REQUIREMENT AND QUESTION IS REALLY RIGHT HERE.

NUMBER FOUR, 2.60 A FOUR.

UM, IT REQUIRES THAT A CARPORT AND MOST OF THE CASES WE SEE IS FOR MULTIFAMILY, BUT REALLY IN ANY NON-RESIDENT ELEMENT, UM, THE, UM, IT MUST BE SUPPORTED BY COLUMNS THAT ARE ARCHITECTURALLY INTEGRATED AND ARE SIMILAR TO THE COLORS OF THE MAIN BUILDING.

TYPICALLY APARTMENT COMPLEXES, UM, ARE, YOU KNOW, SOME TYPE OF MASONRY, SOME TYPE OF COMBINATION OF BRICK STONE, STUCCO, THAT SORT OF THING.

UM, SO, UM, BY INTERPRETING AND ENFORCING THIS, THIS REQUIREMENT, THAT USUALLY MEANS THAT THE, THE POLES, RATHER THAN JUST BEING BARE METAL, UM, WHICH IS WHAT THEY ARE UNDERNEATH AT THEIR CORE, THEY ARE METAL POLES, BUT THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME SORT OF, UM, CLADDING OF, OF MASONRY THAT, THAT GENERALLY THE MAIN, UM, THE MAIN BUILDINGS, APARTMENT BUILDINGS, OFFICE BUILDINGS, WHATEVER THOSE MAY BE.

SO I THINK THE, UM, I'M GOING TO STOP SHARE SCREEN.

THE, UM, THIS HAS BEEN A COMMON, VERY, VERY COMMON DEVIATION REQUESTS FROM DEVELOPERS, UM, ESPECIALLY AS THEY GO THROUGH THE, THE, UH, ZONING AND PD PROCESS, UM, FOR MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS.

UM, I WOULD SAY THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM HAVE REQUESTED THIS DEVIATION, AND IF THEY HAVE THAT, UH, ONCE THEY GET TO CONSTRUCTION, THEY'RE USUALLY CALLING, UH, JIM AND I SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS, AND THIS IS KIND OF, THIS IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

SO THE, THE ISSUE THAT WE HEAR FROM DEVELOPERS IS THAT WHEN YOU ADD THE MASONRY CLADDING AROUND THE POLES, IT'S REALLY THE SPACE ISSUE.

IT STARTS EATING, EATING INTO THEIR PARKING SPACES THAT THEY'VE GOT FOR THE COVERED PARKING.

AND OF COURSE THE GDC DOES A MINIMUM OF 50% OF THE PARKING FOR MULTI-FAMILY SPECIFICALLY YOU'D BE COVERED.

UM, IT STARTS CUTTING INTO THOSE PARKING SPACES AND, AND, UH, AND IF THEY LEAVE THE PARKING IS, IS IT CREATES SOME TIGHT SPACES WHERE THEY THEY'RE CONCERNED THAT VEHICLES ARE GOING TO BE KIND OF SCRAPING UP AGAINST THE, THE MASONRY MATERIAL OR SIDE VIEW MIRRORS ARE GOING TO BE, UM, ARE GOING TO GET KNOCKED.

SO, UM, AND JIM HAS HEARD SOME SIMILAR THINGS AND ABLE TO EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT, BUT THAT'S KIND OF FROM A HIGH LEVEL OF A CONCERN THAT WE HEAR.

SO AGAIN, IT'S A PRETTY COMMON, UH, DEVIATION REQUEST THAT WE, UM, THAT WE HEAR FROM DEVELOPERS.

SO, UM, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THIS PROBABLY ORIGINATED, UM, BY THE COUNCIL MEMBER WHO, UM, ASKED FOR THIS ITEM TO BE DISCUSSED.

AND I GUESS ONE FURTHER COMPLICATED THING ABOUT THE REQUIREMENT IS GIVEN THE NEW STATE LAWS SAYING WE AS A CITY CANNOT REGULATE, UH, REQUIRE MASONRY, YOU KNOW, WHERE MATERIALS BEYOND THE BASIC BUILDING CODE THAT KIND OF CREATES A LITTLE BIT OF AWKWARDNESS OF, UM, OKAY, WHAT, WHAT MATERIAL EXACTLY WE'RE MATCHING, YOU KNOW, UH, THEORETICALLY IF IT'S A

[00:05:01]

METAL BUILDING, THEN THE POOL WAS JUST SHOULD BE METAL, I SUPPOSE.

SO, UM, THAT'S KIND OF ANOTHER, TH TH THIS LANGUAGE WRITTEN PRIOR TO THAT STATE LAW COURSE.

SO THAT'S JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER AS WELL.

EXCUSE ME, SORRY.

YEAH.

IF I CAN ADD JUST A LITTLE BIT TO THAT, UM, AS, UH, WE'LL TALK ABOUT HOUSE BILL 24 39, UH, IMPACTED WHAT YOU CAN DO AS, UH, THE MATERIALS ON A BUILDING AND CARPORTS ARE STRUCTURES NOT BUILDING, SO WE CAN STILL CONTROL THE MATERIAL ON THOSE.

UM, BUT ONCE AGAIN, AS WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT, AS YOU TAKE, WHAT WOULD NORMALLY BE A FOUR INCH POLE AND YOU MAKE IT ABOUT 12 INCHES, YOU KNOW, UM, WIDE, IT DOES START IMPEDING ON THE, THE, UH, THE CARDBOARDS ITSELF OR THE BUILT THE ABILITY TO PARK UNDERNEATH THEM.

MOST OF THE CAR PORTS WE'RE SEEING NOW ARE, ARE SINGLE POLE, YOU KNOW, THAT CAN LEAVE HER OUT.

EITHER SIDE.

WE DON'T SEE A LOT OF THE FRUIT, ONE POLE ON EITHER CORNER, THE FOUR POLE TYPE OR POLLS ON FRONT AND BACK, MOSTLY THEY'RE THE SINGLE POLE TYPE.

UH, AND SO THAT IMPACTS YOU RIGHT AS WILL SAID, RIGHT? WHERE THE CAR DOORS OPEN AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND IT DOES RESTRICT THAT MOVEMENT.

UM, UH, I THINK THE ORDINANCE, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT SAYS, UH, THAT OUR COLUMNS ARE ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRATED WITH SIMILAR MATERIAL AND COLOR.

THE MAIN BUILDING HELPS SOMEWHAT, BUT IF WE'VE GOT ONE FOR BRICK ON THE BOTTOM, AND THEN THEY'VE GOT STUCCO, OR THEY'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, OTHER MATERIALS SIDING, UH, YOU KNOW, AS IT GOES ABOVE, UM, YOU KNOW, GIVING SOME FLEXIBILITY TO ALLOW MATERIALS THAT COMPLIMENT THAT, BUT MAYBE AREN'T EXACTLY LIKE THE MAIN BUILDING, UH, SHOULD HELP OFFER SOME HELP TO THESE DEVELOPERS THAT ARE TRYING TO SCREAM, YOU KNOW, SQUEEZE THIS IN.

AND THE CAR PORTS ARE CERTAINLY AN AMENITY TO THE DEVELOPMENT OVERALL.

MR. MCNEIL, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION, COUNCILMAN MCNEIL? SORRY.

NO PROBLEM.

THANK YOU.

UH, CHAIRMAN, UH, JUST, JUST A QUICK QUESTION.

UM, AND THIS IS JUST FOR MULTIFAMILY AND SINGLE FAMILY KNOW THAT, THAT THIS SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT IS FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND MULTIFAMILY, BUT THIS DOES NOT APPLY IT TO YOUR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.

THOSE CARPETS ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THIS REQUIREMENT.

OKAY.

AND I WAS JUST VISUALIZING A FEW, IT'S A FACILITY, SO USED CAR DEALERSHIP DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE POLICE STATION, RIGHT THERE IN A FOREST IN WHATEVER THE NEW ADDRESSES I LOVE THAT USED CAR DEALERSHIP.

THAT'S MY FAVORITE ONE IN GARLAND, BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE THIS APPARATUS THAT WE'RE DESCRIBING HERE.

AND I WAS JUST WANTING TO MAKE SURE IT DOES THAT THIS ORDINANCE WILL APPLY TO THOSE AS WELL.

CORRECT.

IF THEY DECIDE TO BUILD IN THE FUTURE, CORRECT? YES.

IF IT'S NON-RESIDENTIAL.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

THEN SECONDLY, DO WE, DO WE WENT INTO ANY ADA CONCERNS, UH, WITH, WITH THE ADDITIONAL, UM, MASONRY AROUND THE POLE.

NOT NOW, LET ME, I'LL TRY AND ADDRESS THAT FOR YOU.

WE'LL, UH, NOT NECESSARILY, THERE ARE SPECIFIC REGULATIONS REGARDING THE OPENING DISTANCE THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, ON THE SIDE OF AN ADA PARKING SPACE.

AND THEN IF IT'S VAN ASSESSABLE, THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL REGULATION.

SO THEY'VE GOT TO HAVE THOSE REGARDLESS.

NOW THAT MAY MAKE THEM, IF YOU HAD THE REQUIREMENT, IT MAY MAKE TO MAKE THE CAR PORT BIGGER SO THEY CAN ACCOMMODATE THAT, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS.

THOSE CAN'T BE WAITING.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MS. CHAIR, COUNCILMAN VERA.

DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING BEFORE I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS? UM, I WISH THEY'D DO THAT THOUGH.

THE BRICKS COVER THOSE, MAKE IT LOOK NICE, YOU KNOW, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ALL THINK.

YEAH.

I'M FIRST THING THAT STICKS OUT TO ME IS THAT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT IT HAS TO BE BRICK CLOUDED IN OUR ORDINANCE AT ALL.

THERE'S NO, I GUESS I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION WHEN THIS INITIALLY CAME TO OUR COMMUNITY, THAT IT REQUIRED SOME KIND OF BRICK CLADDING OR SOME STONE TREATMENT TO THE POLES.

AND THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR ORDINANCE, IT JUST SAID, ARCHITECTURALLY INTEGRATED.

NOW THAT'S UP FOR INTERPRETATION, I GUESS, TO WHATEVER THE PLANNING OR BUILDING DEPARTMENT, UH, YOU KNOW, COMES UP WITH AT THE END AND ALSO THE COLORS.

UM, IT'S INTERESTING THAT SINCE THERE'S A CAR PORCH, NOT CONSIDERED A BUILDING, THAT WE ALSO HAVE CONTROL OVER THAT.

UM, MY FIRST THOUGHT INITIALLY IS, YOU KNOW, I'VE DONE MANY SITES THAT ARE SIMILAR THAT HAVE CARPORTS MY CAREER.

AND FIRST THING WE COULD SAY IS MAKE THE PARKING SPACE A LITTLE BIGGER TO ACCOMMODATE A POLE.

BUT OF COURSE THAT YOU GET PUSHBACK IMMEDIATELY FROM DEVELOPERS.

YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE ONE PARKING

[00:10:01]

SPACE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO ADD AN EXTRA FOOT TO WHEREVER THE COLUMNS MAY BE OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, SIX INCHES TO A FOOT TO MAKE THAT SPACE A LITTLE BIGGER, UM, WITH WHAT WE HAVE NOW, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS HOW MUCH LATITUDE DO WE HAVE? WHAT IS THE ARCHITECTURALLY INTEGRATED? THAT'S WHAT REALLY, WE'RE, I'M STUCK ON THERE.

LIKE, ARE WE ABLE TO APPROVE THESE VARIANCES IF THEY COME WITH ANY TREATMENT AT ALL? THAT IS ARCHITECTUALLY INTEGRATED WITH THE BUILDING ITSELF RATHER THAN JUST A STEEL POLE.

I MEAN, IF YOU SLAP SOME PAINT ON IT AND THE PAINT COLOR MATCHES THE BUILDING, FOR INSTANCE, IS THAT NOW ARCHITECTURALLY INTEGRATED? YEAH.

I MEAN, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

UM, I ARE, YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY WE'RE KIND OF LOOKING MAINLY AT THE MASONRY, THE STUCCO, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT KIND OF STAND OUT THE MOST FOR MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS, WHICH IS KIND OF SPECIFICALLY WHERE THIS COMES UP.

I KNOW THERE'VE BEEN SOME INSTANCES WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, JIM AND I WILL GET CALLS, UM, AND YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO WORK WITH THEM THE BEST WE CAN, IF THERE'S SOME SORT OF, UM, UH, TEXTURIZED, YOU KNOW, CODING THAT RESEMBLES, UM, SOME TYPE OF MASONRY, UM, I BELIEVE WE'VE, WE'VE EXPLORED THAT OPTION KIND OF WHEN THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, HITTING THIS ISSUE DURING CONSTRUCTION.

UM, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY RATHER THAN MAKING THEM GO BACK TO THE ENTIRE HEARING PROCESS FOR, FOR THIS ISSUE.

BUT, UM, UH, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S KIND OF BEEN AN OPTION THAT KIND OF REDUCES SOME OF THE, THE, THE SPACING ISSUE, UM, WHERE IT'S KINDA MORE OF A, ALMOST MORE LIKE A PAINT, LIKE YOU SAID, IF I CAN CHAIRMAN, UM, THE, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY I KNOW THE INTENT BECAUSE THIS WAS ADOPTED JUST AS I GOT HERE, BUT, UM, IT WAS WORKED ON WELL BEFORE THAT, AT THE TIME OF THE ADOPTION OF THIS ORDINANCE, WE HAD AN EIGHT, UH, 80, 75% MASONRY REQUIREMENT ON BUILDINGS, SO THAT AUTOMATICALLY, AND TUNED IT TO KEEP IT ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE OR INTEGRATED MADE THOSE MASONRY.

NOW WITH THE, THE RELAXING OF THAT, YOU KNOW, IT DOES CHANGE THAT WHOLE ASPECT OVERALL, BUT I THINK, UM, EVEN IF WE DON'T, DON'T THINK THAT MASONRY IS GOOD AROUND THERE AND I'M, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, UM, SOMETHING THAT ADDRESSED, UH, BECAUSE IT'S BARE METAL IN THAT CERTAINLY ISN'T INTEGRATED WITH NORMAL, THE TEXTURES OF THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING.

SO SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALLOW JUST THE METAL POLE, EVEN IF IT'S PAINTED TO MATCH OR, YOU KNOW, ANODIZED OR HOWEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THAT TO, TO MATCH WOULD MAKE SOME SENSE, UH, OVERALL.

BUT I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A TOUGH TIME SAYING, YEAH, THAT METAL POLE WAS INTEGRATED.

YOU KNOW, WHEN ALL THE REST OF THE BUILDING MATERIAL MAY BE WOOD SIDING, STUCCO, BRICK, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, JUST SOMETHING TO HELP DIRECT US TO SAY WHAT, WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE.

AND THEN WE CAN KIND OF FEEL THAT WORDAGE AND BRING IT BACK TO YOU.

UM, I MEAN, MY, MY, I COULD SEE US GOING ONE OF TWO WAYS ON THIS.

EITHER WE ADD A SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT FOR STUCCO OR STONE CLADDING THAT IS MISSING RIGHT THERE RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE IF IT IS NOT A BUILDING, THEN WE ARE ALLOWED TO REGULATE IT OR REMOVING THIS COMPLETELY.

AND, UH, JUST LETTING THEM DO, I GUESS, MODIFYING, I SHOULDN'T SAY REMOVING IT COMPLETELY, BUT MODIFYING WHAT WE HAVE HERE TO ALLOW PAINT OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE IT MORE ARCHITECTURALLY INTEGRATED, JUST TO FIND THAT A LITTLE BETTER.

UM, OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS COUNSELING VERY OF HAND UP.

YEAH, I DO.

UM, OKAY.

YEAH.

OUR CORE PORES NOW HAVE TO BE METAL POLES OR WOOD POLES.

THANK YOU, JIM.

YEAH.

THE CARDBOARDS CAN BE MADE OUT OF ANY MATERIAL THAT'LL STRUCTURALLY SUPPORT IT.

WE SEE, ESPECIALLY IN THE NON-RESIDENTIAL WE SEE MOSTLY METAL, UM, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, IT'S EASY TO PUT UP.

THAT'S WHAT THEY BUILD.

THEY CAN GO WITH A SINGLE COLUMN.

YOU CAN'T WAIT, YOU CAN, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT WISE TO DO A SINGLE COLUMN OF WOOD, YOU KNOW, AND THEN BRANCH THOSE CARPORTS OUT.

SO WE SEE STEEL WITH A KIND OF A TRUST SYSTEM THAT HOLDS THOSE METAL UP.

SO WE SEE A LOT OF METAL.

MOST, ALL OF THEM ARE, ARE METAL ON TOP TOO.

THEY'RE USUALLY FLAT OR THEY'RE LOW SLOPE OR THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, GOT A LITTLE HIP TO THEM, BUT THEY'RE VERY, UH, LOW SLOPE BECAUSE CERTAINLY IT'S JUST CHEAPER TO BUILD THEM THAT WAY.

UM, YOU KNOW, OVERALL, AND THEY DON'T REALLY IMPACT THE VIEW OF THE BUILDING AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT A VERY LOW PROFILE.

SO MOST OF THE TIME THAT WE SEE METAL THAT WOULD NOT STOP SOMEBODY FROM COMING IN AND SAYING, I WANT TO PUT A WOOD CARDBOARD UP, UH, YOU KNOW, IN MY APARTMENT COMPLEX, THEY PUT ARBORS UP, THEY PUT, YOU KNOW, OTHER STRUCTURES THAT ARE WOOD UP.

SO, UH, IT WOULD NOT STOP SOMEBODY, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE MOSTLY SEE AS THE MEN.

YEAH.

[00:15:01]

BUT IF YOU PUT WOOD, MOSTLY THEY DON'T LAST LONG.

NO, THAT'S, YOU KNOW.

YEAH.

BUT THEY DON'T YOU'RE RIGHT.

YEAH.

AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS, THAT'S WHAT I WAS DRIVING AT.

UH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I THINK THEY SHOULD PUT THE METAL AND PAIN ACCORDING TO THE PAINT THEY'RE USING TO MAKE THE LIP NINES THAT I GAVE THEM WAS TALKING BACK, YOU KNOW? UM, I'M I'M FOR THEM, YOU KNOW, BUT I DON'T THINK LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THEM PUT STONE OR BRICK AROUND THE METAL POSTS, CORE PORTS.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT OUR SISTER CITIES REQUIRE? DO THEY HAVE A REQUIREMENT LIKE THIS FOR CARPORTS AND NEIGHBORING? I DO NOT.

WE HAVE NOT, UH, STARTED THAT RESEARCH.

WE CERTAINLY CAN IF YOU'D LIKE AND COME BACK.

UM, MY INITIAL IMPRESSION IS IT'S IF IT IS REQUIRED, IT'S PROBABLY NOT A LOT OF CITIES.

UH, DEVELOPERS SEEM TO BE MAYBE NOT SURPRISED, BUT JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST HAVE A TOUGH TIME MEETING THIS.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE MAY BE A BIT UNIQUE, BUT, UM, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT RESEARCH IF YOU'D LIKE, AND, AND I'M SORRY, COUNCILMAN MCNEIL.

OH, SORRY ABOUT THAT.

I WAS TRYING TO RAISE MY HAND, UH, THE OPTION I'D LIKE TO, UH, CHAIRMAN, UH, THAT YOU INDICATED THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN JUST MODIFY SLIGHTLY, I GUESS ANOTHER QUESTION WOULD BE, COULD WE JUST MAYBE ADDRESS JUST THE END CAPS AS LONG AS THE INTERNAL POLLS WITHIN THE STRUCTURE ITSELF, DOESN'T DEVIATE FROM THE COLOR SCHEME? WOULD THAT BE ANOTHER OPTION? JUST THE ENCAMPS ONE, ONE QUESTION I HAVE FOR THAT IS IF YOU MIGHT HAVE A CANTER LEVER IN WHERE THE END CAPS ARE NOW A PARKING SPACE OR TWO INSIDE OF THAT, I GUESS WE'D HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT AS WELL.

YEAH.

INTERESTINGLY, WE DO HAVE, UM, UH, I BELIEVE IT'S FOR ONE OF THE CASES TONIGHT, UH, ACTUALLY ON THE THING COMMISSION AGENDA, I BELIEVE THAT IT ACTUALLY IS WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO JUST, UH, THEY'RE DEVIATING FROM THIS, THIS CARPORT COLUMN REQUIREMENT, UM, FOR THE COVERED PARKING, EXCEPT FOR THE END AND ONES THEY APPEAR TO BE, UM, MEANING THAT, UM, SO ONE PERSON'S THOUGHT OF THAT.

CERTAINLY THE ONE, UH, ONE QUESTION I I'VE GOT, IF THAT'S OKAY.

UH, CHAIRMAN HENDRICK IS, I GUESS IT'S FROM, UH, A PLAN REVIEW AND TIMING STANDPOINT.

UH WE'LL YOU KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THAT.

WE, UM, SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T GET CAUGHT THROUGH DETAILED DESIGN, UH, FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY DON'T PROVIDE THE ELEVATIONS OR WHATNOT, OR DON'T REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GOING, GOING TO DO WITH THE CAR POLES, AND THEN WE CATCH IT AT THE BUILDING PERMIT STAGE.

UM, DO WE NEED TO KIND OF, UH, ADD SOMETHING IN HERE? COULD WE ADD SOMETHING IN HERE THAT WOULD, UH, MAKE SURE THAT WE CATCH THAT A PLAN REVIEW OF THE, OR THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY SUBMITTING THAT AND THINKING ABOUT IT EARLIER ON IN THE PROCESS SO THAT WE CAN KIND OF WORK OUT THOSE DETAILS OR IS THAT MAYBE NOT AN ISSUE ANYMORE? WELL, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I MEAN, UH, TYPICALLY THIS IS, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S, UH, SOMETHING THAT'S GOING THROUGH A PD AND DETAILED PLAN, THEY'VE, UH, WE DO TYPICALLY REVIEW THOSE CARDBOARD ELEVATIONS AND, UM, IF THEY ARE SHOWING THE, THE MASONRY CLADDING ON THOSE ELEVATIONS, UM, AND THEY DON'T RAISE ANY ISSUE OF, UM, THAT THEY WISH TO DEVIATE FROM THAT, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE, WE TAKE AWAY JUST PROCEED.

AND, UM, AND THEN SOMETIMES, LIKE I SAID, THERE'S, THERE'S BEEN ONE OR TWO CASES WHERE DURING THE CONSTRUCTION, THEN THEY KIND OF, ONCE THEY'RE REALLY IT'S ON THE GROUND AND THEY'RE KIND OF MEASURING THOSE THINGS OUT, DOING THE MORE DETAILED CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS.

UM, THAT'S WHEN IT'S KIND OF RAISED TO BE LIKE, OH YEAH, YOU KNOW THAT THIS, THIS IS AN ISSUE.

SO, UM, YEAH, IT IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I HEAR WHAT'S HERE.

YEAH.

IT SOUNDS LIKE AN INSTANCE WHERE IT'S BETTER TO ASK FORGIVENESS THAN PERMISSION.

THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THAT.

UM, ALL RIGHT.

UH, COMMITTEE MEMBERS, AND I ASKED YOU WHAT, UH, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE MR. GUARANTEE THE RESEARCH SISTER CITIES, THAT SOUNDS LIKE WE WERE KIND OF AN OUTLIER FROM HIS INITIAL IMPRESSION, WE CAN EITHER ADD TO IT AND MAKE IT A, A MORE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT TO ADD THE CLADDING.

WE COULD ADD IT TO THE INCAPSULA ONLY, OR WE COULD REMOVE IT AND HAVE SOME KIND OF MATCHING ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRATION WITH THE POLLS COMMITTEE MEMBERS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK MR. ERA? I THINK, UM, I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO ANYTHING UNTIL WE CHANGE THAT KEEP GBC.

IT'S NOT ON THE GDC.

RIGHT.

WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING.

WE CAN, YOU KNOW, MAKE A CHANGE TO THE GDC HERE IS OF SECTION

[00:20:01]

TWO 60, THIS, UH, PORTION THAT MR IS REFERRING TO.

WE COULD PROPOSE THAT THIS SECTION WOULD BE REVISED IF WE WANT, I I'M I'M FOR IT.

WHAT, UH, WHAT, UM, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT, UH, WE, UM, LOOK INTO IT, REVISE IT RIGHT TO SAY WHAT THOUGH? WELL, I MEAN, WHEN, WHEN, UH, MR. GARRISON GETS A INFORMATION FROM OTHER CITIES, THEN WE CAN TAKE UP, UH, POSTPONE THIS ISSUE UNTIL WE GET MORE FRIENDS AND IT COUNTS.

NEIL, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON WHAT DIRECTION WE SHOULD TAKE? YEAH, I, I THINK OBVIOUSLY IF, IF IT SOUNDS LIKE WE, WE ARE OUR CITY, WE'RE THE ONLY, NOT THE ONLY ONE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT WE HAVE IT, I THINK I'M FAIRLY COMFORTABLE.

UH, WELL, IF I COULD GET YOU TO PUT THAT WORDING UP JUST ONE MORE TIME, PLEASE, BECAUSE WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, UH, CHAIRMAN HENDRICK, I KIND OF FAVOR THE LAST, THE LATTER OPTION THAT YOU MENTIONED JUST MODIFYING IT SLIGHTLY IS WHERE, WHERE I'M LEADING.

HERE WE GO.

SO, UM, IT'S THIS SECTION AGAIN, EVEN THOUGH THE, AGAIN, THIS SUBSECTION SAYS NON-RESIDENTIAL, IT DOES CLARIFY ABOVE THAT, UM, THAT MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS AND SENIOR LIVING FACILITIES HAVING CARPORT SHALL COMPLY WITH THIS.

SO, UH, BUT YES, SIR, IT'S, UH, IT'S THIS SENTENCE RIGHT HERE, BE SUPPORTED BY COLUMNS THAT ARE ARCHITECTURALLY INTEGRATED AND ARE SIMILAR TO THE COLORS OF THE MAIN BUILDING.

JUST CLEAR AS MUD, RIGHT? YES.

LET ME ASK YOU MY, UH, GDC RIGHT OUT OF THE BOOK, UM, SAYS SIMILAR TO THE MATERIALS AND COLORS OF THE MAIN BUILDING, NOT JUST THE COLORS, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHERE DID THAT CHANGE? I DON'T HAVE IT AS AN UPDATE IN MIND.

OKAY.

I'M JUST, I'M ON HERE ON FREQUENT LEGAL.

SO MAYBE WE CAN RESEARCH THAT.

I MAY HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE WERE HAVING THE ISSUE IS IS THE MATERIALS, UH, YOU KNOW, MATERIALS WAS STRUCK FROM THERE AT SOME POINT, UM, THEN IT MAY NOT, WE MAY NOT HAVE THE ISSUE, BUT OUR, OUR PROBLEM WAS ALWAYS THE WAY MINE READS IS IT SAYS MATERIALS IN COLOR MATERIALS, STRUCK IT'S DUE TO THE LATEST LEGISLATION THAT PASSED THE STATE LEGISLATION.

BUT NOW IT SOUNDS LIKE IF WE'RE NOT A BUILDING THAT MAY BE, THIS WAS UPDATED PRIOR TO THE, UM, UM, 86, UM, LEGISLATURES ADOPTION.

AND I THINK IT WAS SEPTEMBER ONE.

AND RIGHT PRIOR TO THAT, WE BROUGHT THIS SECTION ALONG WITH MANY OTHER SECTIONS BACK FOR AMENDMENT.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE AMENDMENTS THAT WE MADE.

OKAY.

SOUNDS LIKE MATERIALS GOT REMOVED THEN DURING THAT PORTION.

YEP.

SO THIS IS THE UPDATED IN FOR, YEAH.

AGAIN, THIS IS, YEAH.

KIND OF THE OFFICIAL ON FRANKLIN LEGAL, BUT, UM, YEAH, I GUESS IT KIND OF GOES BACK TO THE QUESTION OF, IS IT MAYBE STILL A LITTLE VAGUE, UM, CHARGE OF WHITE ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRATED MEANS? THAT'S WHAT, YEAH.

WELL, KEEP IN MIND ALSO THAT SOMETIMES WE DRAFT THESE AND OF COURSE WE CAN ALWAYS, IT'S ALWAYS AT THE PLEASURE OF THE COUNCIL, HOW THEY WANT THIS DRAFTED, BUT SOMETIMES WE DO DRAFT THESE, THAT IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS FOR A REASONABLE FROM THE BUILDING OFFICIAL OR THE PLANNING DIRECTOR.

AND, UM, NOW WHETHER THE MUNICIPAL COURT JUDGE AGREES WITH US OR NOT, IF THE, UM, THAT'S A DIFFERENT MATTER, BUT, UM, WE SOMETIMES DO DRAFT THESE, UM, SO THAT Y'ALL CAN HAVE USE YOUR DISCRETION AND USE YOUR REASONABLE INTERPRETATION TO MAKE DECISIONS ON THESE.

SO IT'S REALLY THE TIGHTER YOU DRAFT IT, THE LESS DISCRETION YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE.

JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND.

I'LL SPEND VERA, YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP.

YEAH.

OH, YOU'RE KIDDING ME.

WELL, THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY I WAS TALKING THAT, UM, WE COULD, UH, DO A LITTLE BIT MORE INVESTIGATING BEFORE WE'RE BRINGING TO COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, YOU SAY WHAT THE OTHER CITIES ARE DOING, THEN WE MAKE OUR OWN DECISION.

THEREFORE WE TAKE AS A COUNCIL, COUNCILMAN NEIL, YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP AS WELL.

YES.

AND, AND REREADING THAT, I THINK, YES, IF WE, MY THOUGHT NOW IS IF WE KIND OF STRIKE OUT THE ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRATED AND JUST SYMBOLISM COLOR, BECAUSE I THINK ONCE YOU GET UNDER

[00:25:01]

THERE, UNLESS IT'S EXTREMELY LIT, YOU KNOW, LIGHT IT AT NIGHT OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

I THINK WE, I THINK THE PURPOSE WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD WANT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO COMPLIMENT THE BUILDING.

HOWEVER, AS LONG AS IT'S IN LIGHT COLOR AND NOT GOING TO BE TOO RESTRICTIVE, I THINK THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO STAY BY WITH THAT.

UM, BECAUSE I, I, I LIKE MOST PEOPLE.

YEAH.

I DON'T THINK WE WANT ANYBODY TRYING TO BUILD AN ELABORATE COLUMN JUST FOR, JUST FOR A CARPORT.

SO I WOULD JUST SAY IF WE COULD STRIKE UP THAT MIDDLE TO JUST SAY SOMETHING IN LIKE, IN LIKE COLOR, I'M FINE WITH THAT SUGGESTION AS WELL.

IF WE WANT TO ELIMINATE THE REQUIREMENT TO PUT ON CLADDING MATERIALS TO OUR CARPORT COLUMNS, I'M FINE WITH THAT.

AS LONG AS THEY'RE SIMILAR IN COLOR TO THE BUILDING ITSELF AND COUNCILMAN VERA, ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT? OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO STILL SEE? OKAY, WELL THEN LET'S, UH, LET'S UM, HAVE A MOTION THEN, UH, MR. NEIL, IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION.

YES.

UM, SORRY, SORRY, CHAIRMAN.

UM, JUST KEEP IN MIND.

UM, ANYTIME WE HAVE REGULATIONS THAT INVOLVE, UM, COLOR PATTERNS OR COLOR IN MANY WAYS, UM, UM, THOSE TYPE OF REGULATIONS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE BECAUSE IT'S REALLY OFTENTIMES A MATTER OF OPINION.

AND SOME PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY GO SO FAR AS TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I'M TRYING TO EXPRESS MYSELF WITH THE WAY I PAINT THE COLOR COMBINATIONS.

I USE THEM ON, ON MY HOUSE AND MY CAR PORT.

AND SO JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT AS WE, AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS AND WHATEVER CHANGES MAY MAKE, THAT'S FINE TO PUT THAT IN THERE.

CAUSE WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE DONE THAT BEFORE, BUT ENFORCEMENT'S A DIFFERENT MATTER.

AND SO THEN IF PUSH COMES TO SHOVE DOWN THE ROAD, DOWN THE ROAD AND A PROPERTY OWNER DECIDES TO PAINT THEIR, THEIR POST A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COLOR THAN THEIR HOUSE.

AND IN OUR OPINION, EVEN, UM, IN SOME WAYS IT CONTRASTS WITH THEIR HOUSE, UM, THAT'S PROBABLY, THERE'S PROBABLY NOT A LOT WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT JUST FOR FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUE.

SO WE HAVE A COLOR REQUIREMENT IN THERE RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S LIKELY NOT ENFORCEABLE IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

YES.

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN NON ENFORCEABLE.

IT'S ALWAYS, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN SOMETHING THAT WE PUT IN THERE CAUSE IT DOES ENCOURAGE, UH, DEVELOPERS AS THEY COME IN TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE AT LEAST INITIALLY BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION AND CONSTRUCTING THESE PROJECTS.

UM, UM, BUT IN MANY WAYS, UM, UM, IF AN OWNER LATER WANTS TO COME IN AND DECIDE TO PAINT IT COMPLETELY, THERE'S PROBABLY NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT.

JUST, UM, THEY PROBABLY HAVE IT RIGHT UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES AND THE COLOR THEY CHOOSE TO PAINT THEIR HOUSE.

UH, THEN I WOULD SUGGEST COUNSELING NEIL, IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A MOTION THEN TO HAVE IT A TREATED OR NON OR A PAINTED SURFACE OR SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST THE BARE METAL, IF WE COULD WORD IT SOME WAY THAT WAY.

OH, I LOVE THAT.

I LOVE THAT.

YES.

AND I, I LIKED YOUR, I LIKED THE WORD YOU USE TOO, THAT IT COMPLIMENTS THE, UM, THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

LIKE THE WORD COMPLIMENT SEEMS TO MAKE A LOT OF SENSE IN THERE.

YEP.

CERTAINLY.

UH, LET ME TRY TO GO BACK TO THE MEMBER.

WELL, I'M SORRY.

ONE MORE TIME.

WHAT CAN YOU PUT THIS, PUT THIS STATEMENT UP ONE MORE TIME.

ABSOLUTELY.

I'LL HIGHLIGHT IT THERE FOR YOU.

OKAY.

MR. CHAIR, MY MOTION IS, UH, THAT THE STRUCTURE WOULD BE SUPPORTED WHEREBY IT COMPLIMENTS AND IS TREATED IN SUPPORT OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE.

I'LL COME UP WITH SOME LANGUAGE TO, UM, UM, UH, COUNCILMAN NEIL, I'LL COME, COME WITH SOME LANGUAGE TO DROP IN THERE TO MAKE SURE I'M EXPRESSING IT IN A WAY THAT YOU HAVE IN MIND ON THIS MOTION.

AND I'LL GET BACK WITH Y'ALL OF COURSE, WITH THE LANGUAGE.

AND IF I DON'T GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME Y'ALL CAN Y'ALL CAN TELL ME THE NEXT TIME WE GET TOGETHER AND I'LL FIX IT, BUT I THINK I CAN GET IT RIGHT.

OKAY.

OKAY.

I THOUGHT HE COULD.

THANK YOU.

GET THE, UH, WHAT WE'RE AIMING FOR HERE.

SOME KIND OF TREATED SURFACE AT COUNCIL RIVERA.

DO I HEAR A SECOND FROM YOU? YEAH.

SECOND, SECOND.

ALL RIGHT.

COMMITTEE ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

VERY GOOD.

AND THAT TAKES CARE OF ITEM A OF TWO A AND WE'LL MOVE ON THEN TO OUR NEXT ITEM.

ITEM TWO B IS REVIEWING ORDINANCE REGARDING HISTORIC OR ICONIC SIGNS.

YES.

MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, I SENT, YOU ALL HAD, OF COURSE I KNOW WE'VE HAD A WINTER SINCE THEN.

SO, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE LONGER AGO, BUT I GUESS IT WAS ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO IN ST.

YOU ALL, UM, JUST KIND OF SOME PRELIMINARY, UM, ORDINANCE INFORMATION, UM, FROM SOME OTHER CITIES, SOME IN STATE, IF YOU OUT OF STATE, JUST TO KIND OF, UH, CAST A NET A LITTLE WIDER.

UM, BUT AS FAR AS WE, WE FOUND SOME OTHER

[00:30:01]

CITIES WHO, UM, HAVE SOME TYPE OF HISTORIC OR ICONIC OR LANDMARK SIGN, UH, ORDINANCE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE STAFFED AND DO A REAL, REAL DEEP DIVE IN EACH ONE OF THESE, BUT JUST KIND OF AT LEAST, UH, IDENTIFIED SOME AND KIND OF SUMMARIZE SOME OF THAT INFORMATION OR PUT SOME OF THAT INFORMATION AND PROVIDED A LINK IN THAT WORD DOCUMENT, IF YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO KIND OF PERUSE THROUGH THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, NOT REALLY SURE WHICH DIRECTION THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO TAKE IT, BUT THERE, THERE WERE SOME INTERESTING, UM, UH, EXAMPLES OUT THERE.

UM, MARBLE FALLS THAT APPEARS HAS A LANDMARK SIGN ORDINANCE WHERE IF A SIGN IS, UH, UH, MORE THAN 50 YEARS OLD AT THE APPLICATION FILING, THAT'S CONSIDERED A HISTORIC SIGN.

UM, I THINK IF IT GOES BETWEEN LIKE 25 AND 50 YEARS, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL, UH, UH, I CAME, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE ICONIC SIGN.

AND THEN, UH, AND THEN THERE'S REPLICA SIGNS, BUT THEY'RE ALL SUBJECT TO LANDMARK SIGN DESIGNATION AS SUBJECT TO, UM, UH, FOR THEIR CITY, AT LEAST THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, UH, REVIEW AND APPROVAL WITHOUT CONSIDERING THOSE OFFICIALLY LANDMARK SIGNS.

UM, THEY'VE GOT SOME PROTECTIONS AND SOME FURTHER REGULATIONS ON, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A HISTORIC SIGN, BUT IT'S NOT ADVERTISING THE CURRENT BUSINESSES THERE THAT DOESN'T COUNT AGAINST YOUR SQUARE FOOTAGE.

THAT'S JUST KIND OF ONE EXAMPLE OF HOW THEY ADDRESS THAT, THAT POTENTIAL ISSUE.

UM, THEY CAN'T BE RELOAD.

THEY CAN BE REALLY LOCATED WITH SOME PARAMETERS WHERE THEY CAN'T BE RELOCATED INTO A RESIDENTIAL ZONED AREA AND THAT SORT OF THING.

SO EVERYONE JUST KIND OF WANT TO PUT THAT INFORMATION OUT THERE AND, UM, WE'RE HAPPY TO DO ANY MORE RESEARCH OR PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER IF THE COMMITTEE WANTS SURE.

WHERE IT SOUNDS LIKE SOME THINGS THAT WE WOULD, WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, THEN SOME THINGS YOU NEED TO CONSIDER ARE TIME SEEMED LIKE 25 AND 50 YEARS OR WHAT SOME OTHER CITIES HAVE USED.

CAROL'S UM, I WONDER ABOUT WHAT, WELL, FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES WE MIGHT RUN INTO, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT HAS A SIGN THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, I REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE GOING OVER TO THE SIGN ORDINANCES OR WHEN THE COUNCIL WAS, I THINK IT WAS BEFORE I WAS, THERE WAS COMMENTS ABOUT A 70 FOOT NAKED MAN AND DOWNTOWN OR ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING.

OKAY.

WHAT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE COMMITTEE? WHAT DO THEY WANT TO DO AS FAR AS SIZE? THEY HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS? I HAVE, I HAVEN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT BECAUSE WEEK I WAS, IT WAS SURVIVAL TIME FOR ME.

I DIDN'T HAVE NO ELECTRICITY FOR FOUR DAYS, NOTHING FOR FOUR DAYS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A BIBLE OF TIME FOR ME.

I WASN'T THINKING ABOUT ALL THIS RIGHT NOW.

SO I THINK, UH, WHY DON'T WE JUST POSTPONE IT FOR THE NEXT, UH, NEXT TIME? SO GIVE US TIME TO, TO READ UP ON IT OR THE ONE THAT, UM, WE'LL JUST END THIS.

I HAVEN'T EVEN LOOKED AT IT.

NO.

OKAY.

YEAH.

I CAN LIVE WITH THAT AS WELL.

OKAY.

WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING PENDING.

DO WE WILL, UM, FOR THIS PARTICULAR ITEM OR YES TIME-SENSITIVE NO, SIR.

NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

NO.

THE OTHER ITEM ONLY ITEM PENDING.

WE HAVE OUR ON OUR AGENDA RIGHT NOW, CURRENTLY.

OKAY.

BUT THEY, THEY, THEY POSTPONE THEM.

I THINK THEY POSTPONE FOR THE NEXT TIME FOR NETWORK TONIGHT.

OH, YES, SIR.

THE OTHER ITEMS THAT PASSED THROUGH THE COMMITTEE, THE SUP TIME PERIODS AND THE ACCESSORY DWELLINGS.

YES, SIR.

THOSE WILL BE ON YOUR MARCH 1ST AGENDA.

YEAH.

YEAH.

THEY POSTPONE THEM BECAUSE OF THE LONG MEETING WE GOT TONIGHT.

RIGHT.

WELL, THOSE, THOSE ARE MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE ALREADY THOUGH.

YEAH.

RIGHT.

OKAY.

WELL, I'M FINE IF IT'S THE COMMITTEE'S DESIRE TO POSTPONE THIS ITEM AND, UH, JUST TO GIVE MORE TIME TO REVIEW IT NOW, CONSIDERING THE VARIOUS OTHER CITIES AND BE ABLE TO DO A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH ON OUR OWN, I'M FINE WITH THAT.

SO I NEED A MOTION THEN TO DO THAT.

I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE POSTPONE THIS UNTIL THE NEXT COMMITTEE MEETING.

I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO POSTPONE ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

SO WE'LL, WE'LL PUSH THIS ONE BACK TO OUR MEETING.

THEN NEXT MONTH THEN GIVE HIM MORE TIME TO REVIEW IT.

WE'LL MOVE ON THEN TO OUR FINAL ITEM I HAVE HERE.

LET ME PULL THIS BACK UP.

IT IS A REVIEW I'M TO SEE REVIEW OF PERIMETER SCREEN WALLS, SIR.

MR. CHAIRMAN, IT'S A BEEN A WHILE SINCE THE COMMITTEE DISCUSSED THIS, I BELIEVE IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN ABOUT

[00:35:01]

A YEAR OR SO.

UM, AND THEN REALLY WHEN IT LEFT OFF, UH, COVID QUICKLY HIT.

AND, UM, UH, THE ACTION ITEM KIND OF GOT PUSHED OUT ON THE BACK BURNER A LITTLE BIT, BUT I BELIEVE, UM, WHEN THE COMMITTEE LAST DISCUSSED THIS, UH, OF COURSE IT WAS IN PERSON IS JUST PRIOR TO COVID.

UM, WHERE WE LAST LEFT OFF WAS, UM, THE ACTION ITEM, UH, FOR STAFF WAS TO, UH, UPDATE THE SPREADSHEET THAT WE HAD SHARED WITH THE COMMITTEE, UM, UH, GOING THROUGH ALL THE CONDITIONS, THE CURRENT CONDITIONS OF THE SCREENING WALLS THAT WE HAVE IN, UM, AS WELL AS IDENTIFYING AT LEAST TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY, THAT'S WHERE OUR KNOWLEDGE, UM, THAT OWNERSHIP OF THOSE, WHETHER THE HOA OWNED OR, OR CITY OWNED.

UM, AND SO THE SPREADSHEET AT THE TIME WAS A FEW YEARS OLD AND, UH, WE SUSPECTED WE NEEDED SOME UPDATING, UM, UH, CONSIDERING SOME SCREENING RULES.

OF COURSE THE CONDITIONS HAVE DETERIORATED A BIT.

UM, SO, UH, CODE COMPLIANCE HELPED US WITH THAT.

UM, LIKE I SAID, DURING COVID THAT THERE WERE THINGS FOR AWHILE, BUT ULTIMATELY THEY WERE ABLE TO KIND OF GO THROUGH AND UPDATE THE CONDITIONS OF THOSE SCREEN WALLS.

SO, UM, THAT'S INFORMATION WE HAVE AVAILABLE.

WE CAN SHARE WITH THE COMMITTEE IF YOU'D LIKE, IF THAT'S KIND OF WHERE YOU WANT TO CONTINUE THAT CONVERSATION.

UM, I BELIEVE THE ORIGIN OF THIS ITEM HAD COME FROM, UM, I BELIEVE COUNCILMAN NICKERSON, THERE, THERE WAS A SPECIFIC SCREEN WALL IN DISTRICT THREE THAT, UM, HAD, HAD, UH, FALLEN DOWN AS A PRE, UH, SORTS OF COMPLAINTS.

AND FORTUNATELY THE GOOD NEWS ON THAT AS THEY SEEM TO FIND, HAVE FOUND SOME FUNDING, UH, THEY WERE ABLE TO REBUILD, UM, I WORKED TOWARDS REBUILDING THAT, THAT PARTICULAR WALL.

UH, BUT CERTAINLY IT'S AN ISSUE THAT MAY, UH, YOU KNOW, MAY COME BACK WITH OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS, OTHER SCREEN WALLS, AS WELL AS THEY CONTINUE TO AGE.

SO I'LL KIND OF LEAVE IT OFF THERE.

MR. OLC IS OBVIOUSLY AVAILABLE.

SCOTT BALLINGER IS IN THIS ZOOM MEETING AS WELL IN CASE THERE ANY KIND OF NEIGHBORHOOD OR HOA RELATED QUESTIONS AS WELL.

SURE.

RIGHT.

I I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT SPREADSHEET THAT PUT TOGETHER ABOUT THE WALL STATUS.

I THINK THAT'D BE HELPFUL.

I KNOW THAT MY NEIGHBORHOOD I'M IN HAS A WALL SURROUNDING IT.

AND FEW WEEKS AGO HE WAS HIT BY A DRIVER RUNNING DOWN SHILOH AND THE WALL AND THAT SECTION NOW IS IN CRUMBLES.

SO, UH, AT LEAST IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, THE WALLS ARE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY AND THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER TO REPLACE THOSE.

SO YOU OFTEN HAVE PEOPLE WHO BUY HOMES, WHO AREN'T AWARE OF THAT WHEN THEY PURCHASE THE HOME AND THEN IT BECOMES THEIR PROBLEM WHEN SOMEONE HITS THEIR WALL OR DOESN'T HAVE INSURANCE AND DRIVES OFF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO, UM, I'D ALSO LIKE TO SEE POSSIBLY, I KNOW RICHARDSON HAD A WALL'S AS PART OF THEIR BOND, UH, THEIR, ONE OF THEIR PAST BOND ELECTIONS WITHIN THE PAST FIVE YEARS OR SO.

I KNOW THEY WERE PUTTING WALLS AS PART OF THEIR BOND PROJECT DOWN IN RAPAHOE.

SO I'D LIKE TO SEE KIND OF WHAT THAT BOND PROPOSAL WAS IF POSSIBLE, AND MAYBE THAT'D BE SOMETHING WE SHOULD SUGGEST FOR INCLUSION IN A FUTURE OF BRON PROJECT FOR A GARLAND, POSSIBLY AS ANY OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBER HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS COUNCIL, WE CAN MAKE A MOTION.

COUNCILMAN MENIAL, YOU HAVE SOMETHING FIRST THEN REAL QUICKLY.

YEAH, DEFINITELY LIKES THE FACT THAT LET'S DEFINITELY WANT TO SEE THE LIST OF THOSE WALLS.

AND THEN SECONDLY, I GUESS, TO DRILL DOWN TO WHAT HOS ARE, ARE WHERE THERE A WALLS SCREENING WALLS WITH, WITHIN HOS ON THOSE SOLEMN, SOLEMNLY, SOLEMNLY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE, OF THE HOA, OR DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY, ANY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THOSE? I DON'T THINK SO.

YEAH.

WE KNOW SOME OF THOSE, WE KNOW WE'RE HOA MAY OWN THE WALL.

SOME WE SUSPECT THAT EITHER AN HOA OR IF THE HOA WENT TO THUMP, YOU KNOW, THEN THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS MAY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WALLS THAT THEY BACK UP TO A WEEK.

THEIR LIST KIND OF SHOWS AT LEAST WHAT WE SUSPECT, WHICH ONES ARE HOA WALLS, WHICH ONES MAY BE PRIVATE WALLS.

UM, SO WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION AND WE'LL BE GLAD TO SHARE THAT TO YOU.

AND YOU CAN, I GUESS, GLEAN WHATEVER YOU'D LIKE OUT OF THAT, UM, UH, CAUSE THAT IT DOES BECOME, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE DIFFICULT, I'VE WORKED IN CITIES WHERE, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS, OWN MILLS AND YOU'RE RIGHT.

SOMETHING STARTS FALLING DOWN.

UM, AND WE HAD A LOT OF EDDIE MAN WALLS AND YOU KNOW, IT WAS A SIX FOOT CAST CONCRETE WALL AND THEY STARTED LEANING AND WE MAKE SOMEBODY'S PRIVATE PROPERTY OR TEAR DOWN.

IT'S A HUNDRED DOLLARS IS A LINEAL FOOT TO TEAR IT DOWN AND 150.

SO $250 A LINEAL FOOT FOR A MAINSTREAM WALL GETS PRETTY STEEP.

WE HAVE, UM, UM,

[00:40:02]

FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE AVOIDED TAKING ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY STRAINING WALLS.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INSTANCES IN THE, IN THE LAST 10, 15 YEARS WHERE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS AND OR PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE TRIED TO CLAIM THAT IT'S THE CITY'S RESPONSIBILITY AND OUR LEGAL POSITION HAS ALWAYS REMAINED CONSISTENT THAT IT'S NOT THE CITY'S WALL TO MAINTAIN OR TO REBUILD.

HAVING SAID THAT, UM, UH, MY NOTE WITH RICHARDSON WHEN THEY DID THEIR BOND PROGRAM AND IT WAS QUITE EXPENSIVE AND I WANT TO SAY SOMEBODY LOOKED AT US DOING THAT SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN IT WAS, UM, WELL OVER $50 MILLION TO, TO REBUILD THE WALLS, REBUILD ALL THE WALLS.

BUT ON TOP OF THAT EXPANSE, KEEP IN MIND THAT IF WE DO THAT, WE HAVE TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THOSE WALLS.

AND SO THE ONGOING MAINTENANCE OF THOSE WALLS WOULD DIDN'T FALL THROUGH THE CITY BECAUSE WE CAN'T USE PUBLIC FUNDS TO IMPROVE PRIVATE PROPERTY.

AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE CATCH WITH DOING THAT.

AND SO RICH, SO NOT ONLY PAID TO REBUILD THE WALL THROUGH THEIR BOND PROGRAM, BUT THEY ALSO ARE NOW MAINTAINING THOSE WALLS AND THEY WILL IN PERPETUITY.

SO, AND THEN, UH, WE HAVE SOME, SOME WALLS ON A ONE 90, SO I'M ASSUMING THAT'S THE STATE'S RESPONSIBILITY.

WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? WELL, IF YES, IF THE, DEPENDING ON WHERE IT'S BUILT, UM, SOME OF THOSE WOULD EITHER BE TEXTILE OR NTTA, UM, UM, OR IF IT'S BUILT ON PRIVATE PROPERTY WOULD BE THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, COUNCILMAN, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING? WELL, I'LL GO ALONG WHATEVER Y'ALL WANT TO.

I'M FINE.

THEN IF WE WANT TO WAIT ON THE SIDE OF THE SHIRT, IF YOU WANT TO GET MORE INFORMATION, MR. JARON PROVIDE THAT SPREADSHEET FOR US.

UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE IF WE WERE WHAT MR. ENGLAND SAID, IF WE HAVE THIS WALL AND THE CITY DOES PAY MONEY TO BUILD IT, WE'RE NOW RESPONSIBLE.

SO I THINK THAT'S GOOD INFORMATION TO PASS ALONG TO THE COUNCIL AND REPORT BACK.

SO LET'S, UH, LET'S TABLE THIS ITEM UNTIL WE GET THE MORE, THE ADDITIONAL SPREADSHEET AND MORE INFORMATION FROM MR. GUERIN.

AND THEN WE'LL HAVE MORE DISCUSSION.

OUR NEXT MEETING IS CANCELED.

YOU NEIL, I JUST, I GUESS ONE LAST QUESTION.

DO WE, WITH THE SCREENING WALLS, DO WE HAVE ANY RETAINING WALLS ALONG THE BIKE PATHS, DUCK CREEK? DO WE HAVE ANY OF THOSE OR IS THAT A DIFFERENT CATEGORY OF WALL? THAT IS A DIFFERENT CATEGORY OF WALL ANYWHERE WHERE WE'VE GOT A RETAINING WALLS AND THERE ARE SOME ON PUBLIC PROPERTY AND SOME ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, EVEN FOR A LOT OF THE SUBDIVISIONS, BUT THAT IS CERTAINLY DIFFERENT IN THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS AND OR HOS.

MOST OF THE SUBDIVISIONS HAVE A, UM, UH, A, IF THEY'VE GOT A RETAINING WALL, THEY'VE GOT A RETAINING WALL EASEMENT SO THAT THE SUBDIVISION CAN FIX THAT.

NOW, IF IT'S BETWEEN PROPERTY OWNERS, THAT MAY BE INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS THAT HAVE THOSE.

SO, BUT YES, THERE ARE RETAINING WALLS.

WELL, WE DO CONSIDER THOSE SEPARATE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU MUCH.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

IS THERE ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THE SIDE AND THEN, OKAY, WELL THEN JUST, UH, NEED A MOTION TO POSTPONE TILL NEXT.

MEANING I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE POSTPONE THIS ITEMS ON TO THE NEXT MEETING.

OKAY.

MOTION BY COUNCILMAN VERA.

SECOND SECOND BY COUNCILMAN NEIL.

ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

SO WE'LL POSTPONE THIS MEETING AS ITEM UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING WHEN WE GET THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND THEN, UH, WE'LL DISCUSS THOSE TWO ITEMS, THIS HISTORIC AND ICONIC SIGNS AND OUR WALLS THEN AGAIN AT NEXT MEETING.

SO THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING AND, UH, TAKE A NAP BEFORE WE HAVE A LONG MEETING COMING UP, PROBABLY BE IN 12 ONE O'CLOCK TONIGHT WHEN WE HAVE CHOCOLATE.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

ALL FOR MEETING IS ADJOURNED.

THANK YOU.

THANKS SO MUCH.

I HAVEN'T GOT ONE DIES LATER.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Speech-to-Text.