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ALL RIGHT.

[00:00:03]

HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE NOVEMBER 16TH MEETING OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE FOR THE CITY OF GARLAND.

I HAVE MYSELF CHAIRMAN HEADRICK DYLAN HENDRICK HERE AS WELL AS COUNCILMAN ROBERT VERA COUNCIL.

NUMBER MORRIS IS HERE AS WELL AND ATTENDANCE AND THE STAFF.

WE HAVE TRACY ALLMENDINGER STEVEN HEINZ, AND WILL GARREN.

THE FIRST ITEM WE HAVE ON OUR AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FOR THE OCTOBER 19TH, 2020 MEETING.

AND DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE IT, SIR.

AND A MOTION TO APPROVE BY COUNCIL OR NOT SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

THE MINUTES FROM THE OCTOBER 19TH MEETING ARE PASSED.

THE FIRST ITEM WE HAVE FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION IS REVIEWING AN ORDINANCE REGARDING BACKYARD COTTAGES AND ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.

MR. GARIN, IS THERE A PRESENTATION FOR US? YES, SIR.

UH, CAN EVERYONE SEE THAT IF YOU'RE THINKING? OKAY, GREAT.

ALL RIGHT.

YES, SIR.

WELL, GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE.

UM, THIS IS FOLLOWING UP TO PROVIDE A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.

UM, INCLUDED A FEW PICTURES HERE JUST TO KIND OF PROVIDE SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT THOSE LOOK LIKE.

UM, ALSO PROVIDED ON THIS SLIDE, SOME OTHER COMMON NAMES FOR THEM.

UM, BACKYARD COTTAGES, GRANNY FLATS, MOTHER-IN-LAW QUARTERS BACK HOUSES, GARAGE APARTMENTS FOR MAYBE OTHERS, BUT THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT KIND OF READILY CAME ACROSS AND THAT CAME TO MIND.

AND, UM, JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND, UM, OF, I GUESS THE WHY 80 USE, UM, IS THERE ABBREVIATED 80 USE ARE BECOMING MORE COMMON.

UM, THEY DO ADDRESS, UM, HIGH HOUSING COSTS AND THAT REALLY IS BOTH FOR THE, UM, OWNER OF THE PROPERTY TO, IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO COLLECT SOME, SOME RENT ON THE PROPERTY AND KIND OF MITIGATE THE MORTGAGE OR TAXES OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

UH, BUT ALSO FOR THE PERSON THAT'S MOVING IN TO THE, UH, BACKYARD, UH, COTTAGE OR, OR ADU, UM, TO PROVIDE A LITTLE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

UM, THEY, THEY ACCOMMODATE EXTENDED FAMILY SITUATIONS, UM, MAY ALLOW FOLKS TO KIND OF AGE IN PLACE ON THEIR PROPERTY OR WITH THEIR, YOU KNOW, UM, WITH THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS OR IN-LAWS OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

UM, CALIFORNIA LAW ACTUALLY REQUIRES 80 USED TO BE PERMITTED BY, RIGHT.

UM, AND TO LESSEN, UH, CITY'S RESTRICTIONS ON THEM.

AND BY RIGHT, IN OTHER WORDS, THAT MEANS, UM, THEY CAN BE PERMITTED BY STAFF, UH, AS LONG AS THEY MEET ALL THE REGULATIONS.

UM, SO THEY'RE NOT SUBJECT TO A DEGREE DISCRETIONARY PROCESS SUCH AS AN SUP OR SOME SORT OF VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

UM, THEY, THEY DO SEEM TO BE, UH, MORE AND MORE COMMON, ESPECIALLY ALONG THE WEST COAST AREAS OF WASHINGTON STATE, OREGON HAS MORE AND MORE COMMUNITIES ALLOWING THEM.

AND THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE STATE LAW LEGISLATION PROPOSED TO, UM, KIND OF, UH, REDUCE RESTRICTIONS ON THEM.

UM, KIND OF JUMP INTO TEXAS CITY OF PLANO ALLOWS BACKYARD COTTAGES OF I, RIGHT, WE'LL GO INTO THE DETAILS OF THAT.

I'LL PRESENT THE DETAILS OF PLANOS AND KIND OF COMPARE THAT TO GARLANDS AND THE CITY OF AUSTIN, AS WELL AS AN EXAMPLE HAS REDUCED RESTRICTIONS ON, UM, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS IN RECENT YEARS.

SO I HAD THE SLIDE AT THE LAST MEETING, BUT JUST AS A REMINDER IN, UH, THE GDC, UH, IT HAS CLASSIFICATIONS FOR, UH, GUEST HOUSES AND RENTAL UNITS FOR ACCESSORY DWELLINGS, UM, GUEST HOUSE GUEST HOUSES, WHICH MAY NOT BE RENTED, ARE ALLOWED BY SUP ONLY IN, UH, AG SFE ZONING DISTRICTS.

UH, BUT THEY ARE ALLOWED BY RIGHT IN THE DOWNTOWN ZONING DISTRICTS, WHEREAS RENTAL UNITS, WHICH OBVIOUSLY MAY BE ALLOWED TO BE RENTED, UM, ARE ALLOWED BY SUP ONLY IN THE AG AND SFE ZONING DISTRICTS.

THOSE ARE THE VERY LARGE LOT RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS.

UM, BUT THOSE ARE ALSO LOUD BY RIGHT IN DOWNTOWN.

THESE ARE JUST THE DEFINITIONS I HAD IN A SLIDE LAST TIME AS WELL.

BUT IF WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THIS FOR REFERENCE, THESE ARE THE CURRENT GDC DEFINITIONS, UM, FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING, AS WELL AS GUEST HOUSE AND RENTAL UNITS.

AND, UM, I CAN MAYBE NOT, I WON'T GO THROUGH ALL THE DETAILS OF THIS, BUT THIS IS JUST PASTING THE CURRENT REGULATIONS IN THE GDC, UH, FOR ACCESSORY, UM, REALLY ACCESSORY BUILDINGS, BUT THOSE APPLY TO ACCESSORY DWELLINGS AS WELL.

UM, FRONT AND SIDE SETBACKS, UH, THEY HAVE TO MEET AID USE, HAVE TO MEET THE SAME SETBACKS AS THE MAIN DWELLING, UM, UH, UH, THE MAIN, BUT THERE HAS TO BE A MAIN BUILDING ON THE PROPERTY.

UM, IN ORDER TO HAVE AN ADU, UH, THE ADU, IT CANNOT CAN'T BE SOLD SEPARATELY OR PLAT IT OFF AS A SEPARATE LAW OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

UM,

[00:05:02]

THAT GOES INTO BUILDING PERMITS.

ANY ACCESSORY BUILT, UH, ACCESSORY BUILDING REQUIRES A BUILDING PERMIT, UH, THAT'S OVER 20 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE.

UH, THERE IS A MAXIMUM TOTAL FLOOR AREA FOR THESE, UM, UH, THAT MAY NOT EXCEED 30% OF THE FLOOR AREA OF THE MAIN BUILDING ON THE LOT.

UM, EXCEPT THIS REQUIREMENT DOES NOT LIMIT THE FLOOR AREA OF AN ACCESSORY BUILDING TO LESS THAN 600 SQUARE FEET.

UM, PLANO HAS A MAXIMUM SIZE AS WELL, KIND OF COMPARE THOSE HERE IN A MINUTE.

AND THIS JUST COVERS HEIGHT.

ANY ACCESSORY DWELLING OR ACCESSORY BUILDING THAT EXCEEDS 200 SQUARE FEET HAS A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF 15 FEET.

AND THEN ANY BUILDING THAT ACCESS EXCEEDS 500 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE AS A MAXIMUM OF 25 FEET IN HEIGHT, UM, UH, IN THE REAR, UH, REAR SETBACKS ARE THREE FEET, MINIMUM REAR, UH, EXTRA THREE FEET, UM, FOR ACCESSORY DWELLINGS.

AND SO JUMPING TO PLANO, UM, REALLY THE BIGGEST HIGH-LEVEL DIFFERENCE THAT THEY HAVE AS FAR AS REGULATIONS.

THEY, THEY DO ALLOW BACKYARD COTTAGES BY RIGHT IN MOST RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS.

UM, AND SO THEY'VE TAKEN SUP'S OUT OF THE EQUATION.

IT'S BASICALLY THEY HAVE REGULATIONS FOR THEM.

AND THEN IF AN APPLICANT MEETS THOSE REGULATIONS, UM, AND THEY'RE ALL THE RIGHT CRITERIA AND WHATNOT, THEN THEY CAN BE PERMITTED.

SO IT'S TAKEN THE DISCRETIONARY, UH, SUCH AS SUP'S OR ANY TYPE OF BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT INVOLVEMENT OUT OF THE EQUATION.

UM, SO, UH, ACCESSORY, JUST AS A LITTLE SIDE NOTE, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS WERE ALREADY ALLOWED FOR THE LARGER, UH, WHAT THEY CALL A STATE RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, AND THEY STILL HAVE THEIR OWN SET OF REGULATIONS.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY DIDN'T MESS WITH THAT, BUT THEY ADDED, UH, WHAT WE CALL BACKYARD COTTAGES.

AND AGAIN, THOSE ARE ALLOWED BY RIGHT IN OTHER STANDARDS, SINGLE FAMILY ZONING DISTRICTS, UM, AGAIN, PROVIDED THEY MEET PLAINTIFF'S REGULATIONS THAT THEY'VE ADOPTED IN THEIR CODE.

UM, IN PLANO THE OWNER MUST OCCUPY ONE OF THE DWELLING UNITS ON THE PROPERTY.

THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO LIVE IN THE MAIN HOUSE.

THE OWNER COULD LIVE IN THE BACKYARD COTTAGE, UM, AND THEN RENT OUT THE MAIN HOUSE.

UM, BUT THERE IS AN AFFIDAVIT AND WE'LL GO INTO THAT A LITTLE MORE, BUT, UH, PLANO DOES REQUIRE AN AFFIDAVIT, UH, AS PART OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS, UH, THAT THE OWNER HAS TO SIGN, UM, ASSURING THAT THEY ARE LIVING ON THE APPRENTICE.

SO THIS IS JUST SOME OF THEM, UH, PLAINTIFF'S REGULATIONS THAT JUST REALLY PASTED STRAIGHT FROM THEIR CODE.

UM, AGAIN, THE BACKYARD COTTAGE MUST, MUST BE LOCATED ON THE SAME LOT AS THE MAIN DWELLING.

UM, SIMILAR TO THE GDC IN GARLAND, UH, THE BACKYARD COTTAGES CAN'T, UH, COTTAGE CAN'T BE SOLD SEPARATELY FROM THE MAIN DWELLING UNIT.

UM, MAXIMUM OF ONE BACKYARD COTTAGE PER LOT IS LOUD.

UH, THEY DO HAVE A MINIMUM LOT SIZE.

THE OVERALL MINIMUM LOT SIZE HAS TO BE 6,000 SQUARE FEET, UH, FOR THAT OVERALL RESIDENTIAL LOT.

UH, THE HEIGHT SIMPLY JUST MUST NOT EXCEED THE HEIGHT OF THE MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING.

UM, THEY HAVE A MINIMUM SIZE, LOT COVERAGE AND BUILDING FLOOR AREA.

THEY'RE THE SAME, UH, IT'S 400 SQUARE FEET FOR BACKYARD COTTAGE.

UH, AND THEN THEY HAVE A MAXIMUM FOUR AREA AS WELL, WHICH IS 1100 SQUARE FEET OR 50% OF THE FLOOR AREA.

THE MAIN, UH, DWELLING UNIT, WHICHEVER IS MORE, UH, RESTRICTIVE AND, UM, PROVIDED IT DOESN'T EXCEED THE MAXIMUM LOT COVERAGE IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT.

UH, IT HAS TO BE A MINIMUM SEPARATION FROM THE MAIN ROLLING UNIT OF 10 FEET.

UM, THE BACKYARD COTTAGE MUST TRULY BE A BACKYARD COTTAGE.

IT HAS TO BE BEHIND THE MAIN DWELLING, UH, UNIT, UM, MUST BE ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAIN DWELLING UNIT.

UM, THEY'VE GOT IN HERE.

TEMPORARY BUILDINGS MUST NOT BE USED AS A VACUUM COTTAGE.

I PRESUME THAT TO MEAN, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING'S INTENDED AS A STORAGE SHED.

UM, SOMEONE CAN'T JUST MOVE INTO THAT, IT'D BE SUBJECT TO ALL APPLICABLE BUILDING CODES AND ZONING CODES, UH, BUILDING COTTAGES AND ANY OTHER CONJOINT STRUCTURES MUST BE, UM, ATTACHED TO A PERMANENT FOUNDATION, SIT ON THE GROUND.

OKAY.

AND, UH, THE FIRST PART HERE, UM, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THEY, THE PLANO CITY PLANO DOES REQUIRE AN AFFIDAVIT, UH, TO BE SIGNED.

UM, AND MY UNDERSTANDING FROM MY COLLEAGUE, A PLANNING DIRECTOR IN PLANO IS THAT, UM, AN OWNER IT'S OKAY FOR THEM TO RENT TO, UM, UH, TO SOMEONE, BUT IT, AS LONG AS THE OWNER OCCUPIED UNIT IS NOT RENTED OUT, BUT THEY CAN OUT THE BACKYARD COTTAGE, UM, TO SOMEONE ELSE'S AS MY UNDERSTANDING.

UM, BUT AGAIN THAT THE OWNER MUST LIVE ON THE PREMISE EITHER IN THE MAIN DWELLING OR THE BACKYARD COTTAGE.

UM, AND THEN AS PART OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS, UM, THERE

[00:10:01]

HAS TO BE A COVENANT, UM, ATTACHED TO THE LAND AS WELL.

AND THAT HAS TO BE SUBMITTED AND REVIEWED BY THE CITY BEFORE BUILDING PERMIT IS ISSUED.

THE COVENANT BASICALLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT, UH, TO ANY NEW, UH, BUYER OF THE PROPERTY THAT, UH, THIS, THIS REGULATION EXISTS FOR THE CITY OF PLANO AND THE OWNER HAS TO, UM, LIVE ON THE PROPERTY.

SO I HAVE SOME REGULATIONS REGARDING SITE ACCESS AND PARKING.

UM, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

HE'S GETTING INTO IT NOW.

OKAY.

THE PARKING, YEP.

YEAH.

AS FAR AS PARKING, UM, THEY REALLY JUST REFERENCED THEIR GENERAL PARKING REQUIREMENTS, PARKING LOADING, UH, BUT THEY DO CLARIFY THAT, UH, REQUIRED OFF STREET PARKING FOR BACKYARD COTTAGES MUST NOT BE ACHIEVED BY TANDEM PARKING.

UM, AND FURTHER UP GOING BACK TO SITE ACCESS SITE ACCESS, UM, THEY THEY'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE A SHARED DRIVEWAY ACCESS BETWEEN THE MAIN DWELLING AND THE BACKYARD COTTAGE.

SO THEY CAN'T HAVE LIKE A SEPARATE DRIVEWAY, UM, ADDED TO THE SITE FOR THESE.

YES, SIR.

WELL, UH, WHAT DO THEY MEAN BY ACHIEVING BY TENDON PARKING? WELL, I BELIEVE, UM, THAT MEANS THAT THEY CAN'T JUST HAVE, UM, THE PART OF THE CARS KIND OF BACKING UP ON ONE ANOTHER ON THE DRIVEWAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE OWNER'S CAR CAN'T BE BLOCKED BY THE, THE BACKYARD COTTAGE TENANT OR VICE VERSA, YOU KNOW, MR. JIM GENERAL, HE MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT, YEAH, BUT TANDEM PARKING.

UM, MOST OF THE TIME REQUIRED PARKING IS STATED THAT YOU, YOU, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO MOVE ONE CAR TO GET ANOTHER CAR OUT.

SO, YOU KNOW, IN TANDEM WHERE I PULL ONE IN AND PULL ONE TO FIND IT, YOU KNOW, THEN, AND ONE OF THEM IS NOT CONSIDERED A REQUIRED PARKING SPOT.

SO WHAT THEY'RE SAYING THERE IS YOU CAN'T HANDLE YOUR REQUIRED PARKING SPOT FOR A BACKYARD COTTAGE AS ONE OF THE TANDEM SPOTS.

YOU CAN'T HAVE CARS PARKED THAT WAY, BUT YOU CAN'T COUNT THIS ONE THAT'S IN FRONT AS THE REQUIRED PARKING SPOT, BECAUSE I HAVE TO MOVE THIS BACK CAR TO GET TO IT.

THEY USUALLY DO THAT.

BUT ANYWAY, UM, WHAT ABOUT, UH, ON THE STREET? WELL, IT DEFINITELY, THAT'S NOT CONSIDERED RECORD PARKING, RIGHT? IT'S THAT SAYS REPORT OFF FREE PARKING.

SO YOU, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING HERE IS IF YOU BUILD A BACKYARD COTTAGE, YOU'VE GOT TO PROVIDE PARKING FOR OSPREY.

OH, OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

GDC HAS A SIMILAR REQUIREMENT.

IT DOES REQUIRE A PARKING SPACE FOR GUEST HOUSES.

UM, SO THAT'S GOTTA BE ACCOMMODATED IN SOME WAY ON THE SITE, NOT JUST COUNTED ON THE STREETS, SO, OKAY.

YUP.

YES, SIR.

UM, SO REALLY, UH, KIND OF IN CONCLUSION HERE, THE KEY DIFFERENCES, OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE SOME DETAILED DIFFERENCES IN THE REGULATIONS, UM, BUT, BUT REALLY THE MAIN HIGH-LEVEL DIFFERENCES PLANO, UM, ALLOWS THEM BY, RIGHT.

AND MOST OF THEIR STANDARD, UH, RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, UH, SUBJECT TO MEETING THEIR OUTLINED REGULATIONS, INCLUDING THE OWNER MUST LIVE IN ONE OF THE DWELLINGS ONSITE.

UM, AS OUR MINOR, GARLIN ONLY ALLOWS THEM BY RIGHT IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

AND BY SUP IN CERTAIN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS OUTSIDE DOWNTOWN, UH, PLANO ALLOWS THEM TO BE RENTED OUT, PROVIDED ARE PROVIDED THE OWNER LIVES IN ONE OF THE DWELLINGS AND RENT IS NOT COLLECTED FOR THE OWNER OCCUPIED UNIT AND GARLAND DIFFERENTIATES BETWEEN RENTAL UNITS AND GUEST HOUSES.

UM, AND IT ALSO SHOULD BE NOTED, UH, THAT PLANO, UM, DID SOME COMMUNITY OUTREACH WHEN CONSIDERING THESE AMENDMENTS AND BEFORE THEIR CITY COUNCIL ULTIMATELY ADOPTED IT.

SO, UH, TO BE MORE SPECIFIC, THEY, UM, DID SOME OUTREACH TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEADERSHIP IN PLANO.

SO THE HOA HEADS AND WHATNOT, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD LEADERSHIP GROUPS, UM, AS WELL AS THEIR SENIOR CITIZENS ADVISORY GROUP.

AND THEN OF COURSE THEY WORKED THE ORDINANCE THROUGH THEIR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND ULTIMATELY THE CITY COUNCIL.

AND I BELIEVE THAT'S, THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, MR. GARRON, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS, COUNCILMAN VERA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, UM, THROUGH COUNSEL LADY MORRIS'S JOINING US.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

I THINK, WELL, YOU DID AN EXCELLENT JOB GOING THROUGH ALL THAT.

UM, SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THAT'S ON NATIONWIDE THAT I'VE BEEN JUST WATCHING AND GIVEN THE AGING OF THE POPULATION AND OUR DESIRE FOR

[00:15:01]

MORE DENSITY WITHOUT MORE MULTIFAMILY.

THIS JUST STILL SEEMS LIKE A, A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION, UM, OUTREACH TO THE COMMUNITY.

WE SHOULD, IF WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER THIS, I THINK THAT WOULD BE ESSENTIAL.

UM, LETTING, LETTING PEOPLE SEE WHAT IT REALLY IS VERSUS THE CONJECTURES ABOUT IT AND, AND GIVING THEM A VOICE.

AND I THINK REACHING OUT TO COMMUNITY LEADERS IS A WISE IDEA, I, IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

SO, UM, I, WHAT I LIKE WHAT I SAY SO FAR, I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO HEAR INPUT FROM, FROM RESIDENTS.

SO IF I CAN, UH, CHAIRMAN HENDRICK.

YES, SIR.

THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS.

I ORIGINALLY STARTED MY CAREER IN UNIVERSITY PARK, UH, WHICH HAS A LOT OF GARAGE APARTMENTS BECAUSE OF THE SMU, UH, PROXIMITY.

UH, SO I'M REAL FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THEY DO.

LIKE MATTER OF FACT, I HAVE A MOTHER-IN-LAW'S QUARTERS BEHIND MY HOUSE THAT MY MOTHER-IN-LAW LIVED UNTIL SHE PASSED AWAY.

SO I CERTAINLY NOT OPPOSED TO THEM.

AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT IT AND I DON'T USE MINE.

I DON'T RENT MINE OUT.

ACTUALLY MY SON IS BACK THERE BECAUSE OF COVID AND, UH, THAT TYPE OF THING.

BUT ANYWAY, UM, THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS TO CONSIDER, UH, IS, UH, WE'LL TALK ABOUT OUTREACH.

ONE OF THEM IS THAT WE FOUND OUT IS THAT, UH, POTENTIAL IMPACT OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AS PEOPLE WENT THOSE OUT, YOU MAY HAVE MORE CHILDREN PER LOT THAT ARE GOING TO THE SCHOOLS.

SO IT MAY CHANGE THE DEMOGRAPHICS OVERALL WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

SO YOU EITHER NEED TO WARN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT WE'RE DOING IT, OR, YOU KNOW, KIND OF GET THEIR INPUT ON IT SO THAT THEY CAN ALTER THEIR DEMOGRAPHICS AS THESE THINGS HAVE A POTENTIAL TO TAKE OFF.

THE OTHER ISSUE THAT I SEE AS A POTENTIAL WITH THIS COMMUNITY IS CERTAINLY THE PARKING ISSUE.

I KNOW WHAT WE DID IN UNIVERSITY PARK IS WE REQUIRED THE ENTIRE LOT, UM, MEET THE REQUIRED PARKING FOR BOTH THE SINGLE FAMILY AND THE GUEST HOUSE, BECAUSE WHAT YOU'D FIND IN THIS, THIS COMMUNITY PROBABLY IS THEY'VE GOT A ONE CAR GARAGE THAT'S BEEN CONVERTED INTO SOMETHING.

SO I'VE GOT ONE PARKING SPACE IN THE FRONT.

I GOT A COUPLE CARS IN THE STREET, ALL OF A SUDDEN I WANT TO PUT A GUEST HOUSE, THEN I DON'T MEET THE REQUIRED PARKING FOR THE HOUSE.

AND THEN I CERTAINLY DON'T MEET THE REQUIRED PARKING FOR THE GUEST HOUSE.

AND THEN WHAT DO YOU DO? DO YOU ALLOW, YOU KNOW, A BIG WIDE EXPANSIVE CONCRETE IN THE FRONT YARD, YOU KNOW, UH, CAUSE I CAN'T GET THE DRIVE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CARS DOWN ON THE SIDE OF THE BACK.

SO YOU'RE GOING TO COME IN THIS, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THIS, THERE'LL BE SOME REAL HURDLES AND YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE THAT THOSE PEOPLE CAN'T HAVE A GUEST HOUSE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MEET THOSE OR, BUT YOU NEED TO LOOK AT ALL THE FACTORS THAT GO ALONG WITH THIS THAT ARE GOING TO IMPACT THE COMMUNITY TO ME, ESPECIALLY PARKING.

CAUSE IF I PUT ANOTHER ADULT ON THERE, I'M GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER CAR, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, AT THAT HOUSEHOLD.

SO, OR TWO ADULTS POTENTIALLY, DEPENDING UPON HOW BIG THE, THE, AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I SAW SOME, UH, PLANOS OURS ACTUALLY, AS I COMPARE THOSE, ALTHOUGH THEY APPROACH IT A DIFFERENT WAY.

OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS REGARDING ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ARE PRETTY COMPARABLE TO WHAT THEIRS ARE, UH, OVERALL, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR SIZE-WISE AND, AND WHAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, WITH THOSE WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED, THAT TYPE OF THING.

SO JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW SOME OF THE EXPERIENCE THAT I'VE HAD WITH THEM.

AND WE CHASED THEM AROUND UNIVERSITY PARK FOR, I DID THAT FOR YEARS, AND THAT WAS FUN.

WE WEREN'T ALLOWED YOU WEREN'T ALLOWED TO RENT THEM OUT, BUT THEY WERE ALL HAD A ALL FULL OF SMU STUDENTS.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

THIS ROLE.

AND I HAD A FEW QUESTIONS AS WELL REGARDING THAT.

AND THEN THIS DRUG BROUGHT UP A FEW ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.

I WANT TO ASK ABOUT, I KNOW, UH, PLAINTIFF REGULATIONS, UM, SAYS IT MUST BE ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE.

HOW WOULD WE ENFORCE THAT? CONSIDERING THE NEW LAWS WITH THE, THEY COME DOWN FROM THE STATE AND THE LAST LEG YOU CAN'T, UH, HOUSE BILL 24 39 WOULD PROHIBIT US FROM REQUIRING BECAUSE CURRENTLY, OR WE CHANGED OURS TO TAKE THAT OUT, BUT OURS HAVE THE SAME REGULATIONS.

WHEN YOU GET A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE ON A SENSORY BUILDING, IT HAD TO BE ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAIN BUILDING AND IT ACTUALLY PRESCRIBED SIMILAR MATERIAL TYPES AND THAT TYPE OF THING, BUT THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE OUT.

UH, I, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU COULD CHALLENGE PLANOS REGULATION THAT WAY, ALTHOUGH MOST PEOPLE WOULD HOPEFULLY WANT TO TRY AND MAKE IT LOOK THE SAME, RIGHT? YEAH.

I MEAN, WOULD THAT ALSO CANCEL TEMPORARY BUILDINGS THAT SAME LAW, BECAUSE NO, NO, YOU CAN, YOU COULD STILL REQUIRE A PERMANENT FOUNDATION BECAUSE YOU'RE DEALING WITH LIFE SAFETY ISSUES.

YOU'RE DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, FOR OUR CRUEL, UH, EQUITABILITY OF THE HOME.

SO, AND YOU'RE ACTUALLY, PEOPLE ARE, IT HAS HAPPENED HABITABLE STRUCTURE, AS OPPOSED TO A SKIN IT'S NOT CONSIDERED A HABIT OF A STRAW.

RIGHT.

OKAY.

AND FLOOR AREA, I NEVER MENTIONED FLOOR AREA RESTRICTIONS IF A HOUSE OR THE MAIN, UM, MAIN BUILDING HAS TWO FLOORS.

IS IT COUNTING BOTH FLOORS INTO THAT CALCULATION?

[00:20:01]

WELL, IF YOU LOOK IN ARTS OR, OR PLAINTIFFS, WELL, EITHER ONE, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT IT, I MEAN, I'D START WITH OURS, BUT IT'S OUR OURS.

WE DO.

WE CALCULATE THAT BY WHATEVER FOUR AREA, BOTH FLOORS, UH, ON THERE.

SO WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS, HEY, I'M BUILDING A 600 SQUARE FOOT.

IF THEY BUILD A TWO STORIES, IT'S ACTUALLY 1200 SQUARE FEET.

SO OUR SQUARE FOOTAGE, AS WE TABULATE THAT, THAT IS YOU'RE LIMITED TO 30% OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE.

SO IF I BUILD A TWO STORY, YOU KNOW, A BUILDING THAT I'M GOING TO COUNT BOTH FLOORS, ACCESSORY BUILDING TOWARD THAT, WHATEVER THAT 30% IS IN THE MAIN STRUCTURE, UH, PLANOS, IT LOOKED LIKE THEY HAD THEIRS AT 400 SQUARE FEET WAS THE MINIMUM FOR AN APARTMENT OR, YOU KNOW, AN DWELLING.

SO THEY, YOU KNOW, YOU COULDN'T BUILD A 300 SQUARE FOOT, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE TINY HOMES THAT YOU'VE GOT NOW, OR THAT, YOU KNOW, SEEMED TO BE, UH, WERE THE RAGE.

I'VE HEARD ABOUT THEM AS MUCH LATELY AS I USED TO.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WERE YOU LOOKING FOR 150 OR 200 SQUARE FOOT, TINY HOME THAT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AN ACCESSORY DWELLING AND PLAINTIFF REGULATION BECAUSE THEY HAD TO BE AT LEAST 400 SQUARE FEET AND THEN MAXED OUT AT WHAT WAS IT, 1100 SQUARE FEET, OR NOT MORE THAN 50% OF THE FOUR AREA OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE, BUT THEY HAD SIMILAR SETBACK OR THEY HAD SIMILAR, THERE'S A 10 FOOT SETBACK IN PLANOS.

OURS IS A SIX FOOT SETBACK, UH, FROM THE MAIN STRUCTURE.

UH, WE ALLOW A REDUCE THAT BACK ON THE SIDES AND THE REAR.

I DIDN'T LOOK AT WHAT PLANOS WERE, YOU KNOW, FOR THEIR ASSESSORY DWELLINGS.

UH, THEIR HEIGHT WAS ABOUT THE SAME.

OURS IS 25 FEET OR MAX, WHATEVER THE HOUSE IS, PLANO SEEM TO HAVE THE SAME THING.

THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING OUR REGULATIONS REGARDING ASSESSOR BUILDINGS, VERY SIMILAR.

THEY WOULD KEEP YOU IN ABOUT THE SAME SCALE AS PLAYING A WOOD.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE VOLUME AND HEIGHT AND MASS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND, UH, DO WE HAVE ANY, YOU MENTIONED THE PARKING, I KNOW WE HAVE RESTRICTIONS ON PARKING UNIMPROVED SERVICES ONLY.

DO WE HAVE MAX LAW COVERAGE PERCENTAGES THAT WE'RE ALLOWED, WOULD THIS, IF YOU PUT IT IN AN IMPERVIOUS AREA HOUSE STRUCTURED IN THE BACK, IT MIGHT AFFECT THAT AS ALONG WITH THE PARKING, YOU'D HAVE TO ADD, THEY'RE EITHER OUR FRONT AND REAR, UH, IT'S DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU HAVE A CIRCULAR DRIVING UP, BUT YES, WE HAVE A FRONT YARD, MAXIMUM LOT OF PARKING COVERAGE IN THE FRONT YARD, WHICH I BELIEVE IS 45% WITHOUT A CIRCULAR DRIVEWAY AND 66% WITH A CIRCULAR DRIVEWAY.

UH, THE REAR I BELIEVE, AND OFF LOOK AT, LET ME LOOK THAT UP BEFORE I PULLED THAT, AND YOU CAN ASK OTHER QUESTIONS AND I'LL FIND THAT, YEAH, THAT'S A CONCERN.

I KNOW IF WE ALLOW CIRCULAR DRIVEWAY, SO WE OBVIOUSLY ALLOW ONE RESIDENCE TO HAVE TWO CURB CUTS ON THERE AS WELL.

CORRECT.

AND ONE MORE QUESTION, MAYBE WE'LL, YOU KNOW, THIS ONE IS, DO YOU KNOW THAT THE NUMBER OF THESE ACCESSORY BUILDINGS THAT PLANO IS PERMANENT? I DON'T.

OKAY.

YEAH.

HAPPY TO LOOK INTO THAT.

YEAH.

IT'S LIKE OUR REGULATIONS, JUST FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD NOW IS VERY SIMILAR TO PLANO AND WHAT WE WOULD PERHAPS BE LOOKING AT AND CHANGE HIS HABIT, OURS BE BY RIGHT.

RATHER THAN THROUGH THE SUV PROCESS.

SO IT SOUNDS VERY SIMILAR IS THAT, UM, COUNSEL THAT'S, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE? I THINK THAT'S FAIR TO SAY THE REGULATIONS AREN'T DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT OTHER THAN I JUST HAVE THE ZONING PROCEDURE VERSUS ADMINISTRATIVE.

AND THEN OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MAKING ABSOLUTE SURE THAT THE OWNER WAS ON THE PREMISE ON AFFIDAVIT AND THE COVENANT.

UM, BUT OTHER THAN THOSE THINGS, REGULATIONS ARE DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT, RIGHT? YES.

THERE, COUNCILMAN VERA, WILL YOU, SIR, WHAT ABOUT, UM, HOUSES THAT ARE ALREADY DONE, YOU KNOW, THAT HAVE BEEN THERE A WHILE? WHAT ABOUT THOSE? WELL, UM, IT, UH, I GUESS DEPENDS WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING TO IN GARLAND OR PLANO, BUT GARLAND.

NO, WE'RE COMING BY CAR.

OKAY.

UH, WELL, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THE SE PRO STP PROCESS AND SHOULD HAVE, OR IT'S NOT BEING REGULATIONS.

I MEAN, THE FIRST THING IS, IS IT'S SOMETHING THAT CODE COMPLIANCE, UM, HAS TO LOOK INTO.

HAS SOME OF THEM BEEN GRANDFATHERED JAN? YES.

YES.

SOME WOULD BE CONSIDERED LEGAL NON-CONFORMING WHAT'S THAT? YES.

IT'S NOT VERY, SOME WOULD BE CONSIDERED GRANDFATHERED OR LEGAL NONCONFORMING AS THE TECHNICAL TERM.

THE ZONE.

YEAH.

YEAH, BECAUSE WE HAVE A, YOU KNOW, DOWNTOWN GARLAND, WE HAVE, UH, A LOT OF HOUSES IN THE BACKYARD, YOU KNOW, UH, COTTAGE I'M TALKING ABOUT, AND WE'VE HAD SOME DOWN HERE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

I MEAN, AND THEY LOOK ALL RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, THEY THEY'RE INSIDE THE FENCE

[00:25:01]

LINE AND YOU KNOW, THEY LOOK GOOD.

OKAY.

THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD JUST WANT IT TO KNOW.

THANK YOU, SIR.

COUNCILMAN MORRIS.

YEAH.

I'LL JUST, UM, ON THAT, ON THAT NOTE, I'LL JUST ADD THAT ONE OF THE THINGS, UM, IF WE, IF WE MAKE THIS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE AVAILABLE IN HERE IN GARLAND, I HAVE A GRANDSON WHO IS GOING TO NEED HELP HE'S 13 NOW, BUT WE ARE HAVING TO MAKE LONG-TERM PLANS FOR HIM.

AND ONE OF OUR LONG-TERM PLANS FOR HIM HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOR HIM TO LIVE.

HOPEFULLY SEMI-INDEPENDENTLY ON OUR PROPERTY HERE DOWNTOWN, WHERE HE COULD GET TO THE DART STATION WHERE HE COULD POSSIBLY WORK DOWNTOWN.

UM, AND I THINK OF MY POSSIBILITIES, UM, THERE IN DISTRICT THREE AND A LOT OF THE SAME KIND OF, UM, THE POSSIBILITIES THAT OPENS UP FOR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS WHO HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER, WHETHER IT'S AN ELDERLY FAMILY MEMBER OR PERHAPS AN AUTISTIC YOUNG ADULT, THIS, THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS I HEAR A LOT FROM AT LEAST PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT WHO ARE, UM, CONCERNED A LOT OF TIMES THAT THEY WON'T HAVE THE MONEY FOR LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES, WHICH ARE HORRENDOUS, THEY'RE EXPENSIVE, BUT WHERE THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOMEONE, UM, A FAMILY MEMBER ON THEIR PROPERTY WHERE THEY CAN HELP CARE FOR THEM.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT CAN MAKE THIS USEFUL.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, OUR, EVEN OUR OWN GDC PEOPLE CAN'T JUST TOSS UP A SHACK IN THEIR BACKYARD.

IT WILL BE EXPENSIVE.

EVEN THE FOUNDATION IS EXPENSIVE.

SO I, I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO OPEN THE DOOR TO FLOOD GATES FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE BASIC COST OF BUILDING SOMETHING THAT WOULD MEET OUR, OUR BUILDING PERMITS.

BUT, UM, ANYWAY, SO THANKS COUNCILMAN CHAIRMAN.

YES, SIR.

UM, ON THIS HOUSE IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT MORGAN HOUSES, RIGHT? THE MORGAN BUILDINGS WHERE SOMEBODY CAN MOVE IN TO TALK IN THE TEMPORARY STRUCTURES, THOSE TEMPORARY, THE SHEDS.

YEAH.

BUT, BUT I COULD TAKE ONE OF THOSE SHEDS AND PUT HER ON A PERMANENT CONCRETE FOUNDATION AND ATTEMPT TO USE IT FOR THAT.

OKAY.

NO, NO, WE DON'T.

WHAT WE, WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, IN SOME OF THE THINGS THAT IF YOU WANT TO MOVE FORWARD IN THIS, YOU MIGHT NEED TO LOOK AT IS WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENT FOR A, AN ACCESSORY DWELLING? LIKE I SAID, PLANOS GOT ONE, SAYS 400 SQUARE FEET THAT WOULD KEEP ME FROM TAKING A 200 SQUARE FOOT SHED, YOU KNOW, PUTTING IT ON A PERMANENT FOUNDATION AND SECURING IT TO THAT FOUNDATION AND USING IT FOR THAT.

AND THEN SHE ROCKED THE INSIDE AND FIGURING OUT HOW TO GET, YOU KNOW, PLUMBING AND SOME OF THOSE STUFF.

SO YOU HAVE TO WATCH THAT.

AND AS COUNCIL MEMBER MORRIS TALKED ABOUT THE, SHE'S TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE CALL GUEST QUARTERS AS OPPOSED TO RENTAL UNITS.

AND SO IF YOU WANT TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE TWO, WE CURRENTLY DO THAT, PLANO JUST SAID, HEY, YOU CAN HAVE A BACKYARD COTTAGE AND YOU CAN RENT IT IF YOU WANT, OR YOU CAN USE IT FOR GUESTS, YOU KNOW, GUESTS, IF YOU WANT.

SO THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF THOUGHTS TO THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, SEEING IT MULTIPLE CITIES WHERE THEY SEPARATE THOSE AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY CONSIDER THEM DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE WHEN YOU BRING RENTERS IN, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING FOR A NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR, YOU KNOW? UM, AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THAT.

OTHER NEIGHBORS DON'T LIKE IT, CAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S BACK THERE.

THAT'S WHAT WE USED TO GET A COMPLAINT A LOT IN UNIVERSITY PARK.

I DON'T KNOW WHO'S LIVING BACK THERE AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

WHEREAS IF MY MOTHER-IN-LAW'S LIVING BACK THERE, THEY KNOW HER, THEY KNOW WHO SHE IS, YOU KNOW, SHE COMES AND GOES TO THE HOUSE AND THEY KNOW THAT THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO WELL, WE'RE HAVING A LOT OF TROUBLE, NORMAN STREET COURT THERE, MORGAN BUILDINGS THAT THEY PUT IN A BACKYARD AND PEOPLE NOW, NOW THEY'RE PEOPLE SLIP IN THERE.

I MEAN, YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, JIM, YOU BEEN THERE, SIR.

AND, UH, AND THAT'S WHAT, UM, I'M TROUBLE WITH.

WELL, AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ENOUGH, THEY'RE NOT IN A CONCRETE FOUNDATION THAT JUST SET THEM THERE FOR STORAGE.

YEAH.

AND THAT, THAT BECOMES AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.

BUT AS COUNCIL MEMBER MORRIS TALKED ABOUT, IF, IF, IF COUNCIL DECIDES TO ALLOW IT, WE MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER SOME REGULATIONS THAT WE GET, AT LEAST WHAT YOU FEEL IS APPROPRIATE, YOU KNOW, IN THE COMMUNITY AND NOT SORT

[00:30:01]

OF, WE'RE NOT PUTTING UP, I'M NOT PUTTING UP A METAL SHED.

I'M NOT TAKING, UH, A RUBBER MADE PLASTIC SHED AND TRYING TO SLEEP IN IT.

WELL, A LOT OF THEM JUST, UH, THEY, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE RUNNING WATER.

YEAH.

THEY JUST SLEEP IN THEM ALL THE TIME.

YEP, YEP.

YEP.

EXACTLY.

YEP.

WELL, THAT'S MY THOUGHTS.

THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN BARRON.

I I'D BE MORE APT TO SUPPORT SOMETHING, UH, THAT IS IF THERE IS SOME CORRELATION THERE, IF FAMILIAR RELATION, AND THOSE WOULD BE MORE ENFORCEABLE WITH THE KIND OF COVENANTS THAT PLANO HAS AND THAT SORT OF THING.

UH, I WORRY ABOUT THE RENTAL UNITS AND ALSO AIRBNB USAGE OF THOSE I'VE KNOWN.

I I'VE ALSO USED AIRBNB BACKYARD COTTAGES BEFORE IN OTHER CITIES AND YEAH, IT WAS QUITE NICE.

YOU'RE IN A BACK OF THEIR HOUSE, THE OWNERS UP FRONT, BUT YOU STILL, YOU NEVER KNEW WHO YOU WERE GETTING BACK THERE.

SO, UM, BUT THEY'RE CONNECTED TO THE SOURCE LINES.

THEY'RE CONNECTED TO WATER, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UH, YOU CAN SLEEP ON THERE AND LIVE THERE.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

IT'S NOT LIKE AN OVERNIGHT DEAL WHERE YOU JUST SPEND THE NIGHT, PUT A COT OUT THERE AND SLEEP AND THAT'S IT.

RIGHT.

THE MORE PERMANENT COUNSEL, ANY MORRISON, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING? YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO SAY, SAY ONE MORE THING.

I WOULD, WE WOULD ABSOLUTELY NEED TO DEFINE A MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE, UM, THAT WOULD RULE OUT A LOT OF THE STORAGE SHED TYPE OF, UM, BUT THE OTHER THING I'D JUST POINT OUT, I THINK WE WOULD PROBABLY BE, UM, UNWISE TO JUST SAY, OH, WE'RE ONLY GOING TO DO GUEST COTTAGES BECAUSE I HAVE TO TELL YOU, YOU BUILD A MOTHER-IN-LAW COTTAGE OR A GRANNY FLAT AND THEY DIE AND YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE A LONG STREAM OF FAMILY MEMBERS.

AND THEN YOU HAVE A GUEST COTTAGE THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO USE.

AND IT'S SITTING THERE ROTTING, I'VE GOT THIS GOING ON IN MY DISTRICT ALL OVER THE PLACE, BECAUSE THAT USED TO BE, NONE OF THIS IS NEW.

THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING BACK TO A PREVIOUS MODEL.

OKAY.

SO I AM NOT OPPOSED TO THE CONCEPT OF LETTING THIS BE, UM, UH, SEVERING THE DEFINITION BETWEEN A GUEST COTTAGE AND A RENTAL UNIT.

I DO THINK OWNERS NEED TO LIVE ON SITE ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT FAIL.

AND THAT RESOLVES A LOT OF THE ISSUES WITH RENTALS.

UM, AND HOWEVER, WHETHER IT'S A COVENANT OR HOWEVER WE WOULD ENFORCE IT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE ESSENTIAL THAT THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY HAS TO LIVE THERE AND HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHATEVER ANY OF THEIR, UM, RENTALS, UM, WE'RE DOING.

AND I SUPPOSE WE COULD TWEAK IT TO SAY IT, IT, IT COULDN'T BE SHORT-TERM RENTALS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL WOULD BE INVOLVED WITH THAT.

BUT, UM, MY POINT IS, I THINK WE WOULD BE VERY SHORT-SIGHTED TO SAY, WOULD IT BE OKAY FOR GUEST COTTAGES, IF THERE'S A FAMILIAR RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE PEOPLE DIE AND THE COTTAGE REMAINS.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO KIND OF LOOK FURTHER THAN THAT AND TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING SIMPLE.

I BASICALLY LIKE A LOT OF WHAT PLANO HAS DONE.

UM, A LOT OF IT, I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY DO BETTER IN SOME AREAS, BUT AGAIN, UM, I THINK THE COMMUNITY OUTREACH WILL BE A REALLY IMPORTANT COMPONENT I'VE HAD, I MEAN, I'VE HAD COCO AND SHUT DOWN ILLEGAL BACKYARD BUILDINGS AND MY DISTRICT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, UM, WHERE PEOPLE TAKE A, A SHED AND THEN THEY, THEY PLUMB IT AND THEN THEY ADD ELECTRICAL AND, AND, AND, AND THEN THAT STARTS, SO WE, AND NONE OF THEM WOULD FIT UNDER, UNDER THE GDC OR PLANOS REC, UM, REQUIREMENTS, NONE OF THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT OFF THE RADAR, LIKE THAT WOULD FIT ANY OF THOSE CRITERIA.

SO WE WOULD HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CONTROL BY MAKING THAT DEFINITION.

BUT, UM, ANYWAY, I JUST WANTED TO THINK BEYOND JUST TO GUEST HOUSES, BECAUSE I, I SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT WHEN THE PEOPLE YOU BUILD IT FOR DIE.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK STILL TO GO ON THIS ONE.

UH, MR. GARREN, I KNOW WE CAN REACH OUT THROUGH OUR, OUR COUNCIL MEANS TO A VARIOUS, OUR CONSTITUENTS.

IS THERE ANY WAY THAT THE, YOUR OFFICE CAN REACH OUT TO GET FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY AS WELL? UH, I KNOW COUNSELING MORRIS HAS TALKED TO HER CONSTITUENTS AND TO GET THEIR FEEL AND COUNCILMAN VERA CERTAINLY HAS SOME IN HIS DISTRICT HE'S CONCERNED ABOUT, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE WE MIGHT HAVE TO TABLE THIS ISSUE UNTIL WE CAN, UM, LOOK INTO A LITTLE MORE, UH, I'M GOING TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT PLAINTIFF'S REGULATIONS AND MAYBE START EVEN A RAFT FROM SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT TO CONVERT TO OUR TYPE OF ORDINANCES AND THAT SORT OF THING.

SO WE

[00:35:01]

CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE FULL COUNCIL, BUT I CERTAINLY WANT TO GET THE IMPACT OR THE, UH, FEEDBACK FROM THE CITIZENS AS WELL.

I KNOW THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING THAT WE'RE HAVING RIGHT NOW AND IT HAS BEEN ADVERTISED AND IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE HAVE ANY PARTICIPANTS IN IT FOR THIS, UH, THERE'S ONE ATTENDEE, BUT IT'S, UH, IT'S A STAFF MEMBER.

SO I, UH, UH, I, I KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO AS FAR AS WE CALL IT.

WE CAN HOLD THE NEXT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES MEETING, KEEP THIS ON THE AGENDA AND DISCUSS IT AGAIN AND TRY TO MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS, TAKE THE COUNCIL, BUT AS FAR AS FURTHER OUTREACH, UH, IS THAT SOMETHING YOUR OFFICE COULD HELP WITH? WE MAY TO PARTNER WITH ONB, IF WE'RE REACHING OUT TO NEIGHBORHOOD LEADERSHIP, UM, THEY SHOULD HAVE THAT INFORMATION.

WE ACTUALLY WORK IN THE SAME OFFICE, SAME FLOOR, UM, CHAIRMAN, DO WE WANT, DOES THE COMMITTEE WANT STAFF TO KIND OF GO AHEAD AND DO THAT INITIATE THAT BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT MEETING? OR DO WE WANT TO KIND OF, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE, I'D LIKE TO START GATHERING SOME OF THAT FEEDBACK SO THAT WE CAN, AS LONG AS IT TAKES, WE CAN HOLD THIS ITEM UNTIL WE DO GET SOME, SOME FEEDBACK.

OKAY.

AND THEN I WILL ALSO LOOK AT THE REGULATIONS LIKE YOU POSTED AS WELL.

CHAIRMAN, CHAIRMAN, WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU LIKE TO DRAFT, OR AT LEAST HAVE SOME IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE PRESENTING TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD SAYING, WE'RE LOOKING AT ALLOWING THESE BUY, RIGHT.

AND YOU KNOW, MAYBE AT LEAST ESTABLISHING SOME OF THOSE THRESHOLDS AND THEN GET YOUR FEEDBACK BECAUSE I MEAN KIND OF OPENING IT UP TO WHATEVER YOU'VE GOT, MAYBE A LITTLE BROAD AND, AND I DON'T WANT TO OPEN UP, GET THE DIRECTION YOU WANT.

I AGREE.

I THINK SHOWING WHAT WE HAVE, ALL THE REGULATIONS THAT YOU SHOWED ALREADY THAT ARE CURRENTLY PLACED, IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT I'D HOPED TO PROVIDE.

I MEAN, I CAN IMAGINE PEOPLE SAYING, I DON'T WANT THIS BUILT RIGHT NEXT TO MY PROPERTY LINE, OVERLOOKING MY FENCE AND SHOWING THEM THAT WE HAVE SETBACKS AND HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS AND THAT SORT OF THING IN PLACE WOULD GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS THAT.

YEAH.

AND THAT'S FINE, BUT, BUT I THINK THE DIFFERENCE WOULD BE ALLOWING THEM BY RIGHT.

RATHER THAN BY SUP, WHICH IS CURRENTLY HAS, CAUSE YOU CAN DO IT, YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE AN SUV, YOU KNOW, FOR THE GUEST HOUSE, BUT NOT FOR THE RENTAL IN SOME CASES, SO RIGHT.

BUT ALLOWING THOSE BY.

RIGHT.

UM, AND THEN, UH, THE PLANOS COVENANT, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE REQUIRED THAT WE KIND OF STARTED UNIVERSITY PARK WAS THAT WAS ADVISING THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, HAVING A COVENANT THAT RUNS WITH THE LAND ADVISERS, THE NEXT PROPERTY OWNER, WHAT THEY'RE BUYING RATHER THAN IT BEING, YOU KNOW.

OKAY.

WELL, I THINK I CAN DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT AND YOU KNOW, YES, SIR.

ALSO THE, UH, UH, SQUARE FEET, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE A 10 BY 10 FLAT ONE WHERE YOU HAVE LIKE, UH, LIKE A COTTAGE WAS A LITTLE REFRIGERATOR, YOU KNOW, UH, STOVE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

YOU CAN COOK AND SLEEP.

RIGHT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DONE.

YEAH.

I WAS THINKING IS MAYBE WE, WE PULLED TOGETHER BEFORE WE GO OUT TO THE PUBLIC.

WE PULLED TOGETHER SOME, SOME SMALL FOOTPRINT COTTAGES SO THAT Y'ALL CAN SEE THAT, OKAY.

AND IN 300 SQUARE FEET, I CAN GET THIS IN 400 SQUARE FEET.

I CAN GET THAT ONE THAT'S BEHIND MY HOUSE IS, IS LESS THAN 600 SQUARE FEET, BUT IT'S A ONE BEDROOM, YOU KNOW, WITH A, WITH A FULL BATH AND A KITCHENETTE LIVING AREA, ALL IN ONE, SO 600.

BUT, BUT THAT CAN KIND OF GIVE YOU SOME IDEAS SO THAT WE CAN PAIR DOWN IN.

SO WHEN WE GO TO THE PUBLIC, WE CAN SAY, COUNCIL WAS LOOKING AT ALLOWING ASSESSORY BUILDINGS OF 300 SQUARE FEET FOR, YOU KNOW, HABITABLE SPACE.

ARE THESE ASSESSORS DWELLING CONCRETE AS ARE WHEN YOU COME TO IT SO THAT WHEN WE GO OUT TO THE PUBLIC, WE CAN GO, THIS IS WHAT THEIR COUNCIL IS CONSIDERING.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT? RIGHT ON A CONCRETE FLOOR RIGHT NEXT TO IT TOO.

SORRY, WATER, OR A SIX FOOT SETBACK, OR YOU CAN GET SOME OF THOSE.

I THINK IF WE CAN DEFINE SOME OF THAT A LITTLE BIT BETTER, IT'S A LITTLE EASIER TO GO OUT AND GET YOUR INPUT.

I THINK THAT'D BE EVERYBODY LOVES IT.

EVERYBODY HATES IT.

I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.

YEAH.

I AGREE.

I THINK, UH, MAKING THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN BY RIGHT AND BY SUP I'M STILL OF THE MIND THAT, UH, FAMILIAL RELATIONSHIP WILL BE BY, RIGHT.

BUT YET THE RENTAL UNITS OF YOUR SUP DO ADDRESS WHAT COUNSELING MORRIS SAID.

IF, IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY WHO DOES PASS AWAY, YOU NO LONGER NEED THAT.

YOU DO HAVE A PATH TO USE AN SUP TO, TO CONVERT THAT STILL.

SO, UM, YES, IF YOU COULD GET ALL THAT INFORMATION TOGETHER AND WE COULD LOOK AT IT, OUR NEXT MEETING AND THEN GO OUT TO THE PUBLIC AFTER THAT.

THAT'S NO PROBLEM, MR. CHAIRMAN.

YES, SIR.

WHEN, WHEN, UM, WHEN DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE NEXT MEETING? UM, I DON'T KNOW.

WE'LL LOOK AT OUR SCHEDULE.

I IMAGINE IT WILL BE PROBABLY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE NEW YEAR.

EXACTLY.

[00:40:01]

JANUARY.

RIGHT.

BECAUSE, UH, IT'S UH, HOLIDAYS ARE COMING UP AND ALL OF THE AD.

SO LET'S SAY JANUARY.

OKAY.

THE MIDDLE OF JANUARY, SOMEWHERE IN THERE.

WE'LL LOOK AT OUR CALENDAR.

YES, SIR.

THAT GAVE US PLENTY OF TIME TO STUDY ALL OF IT.

I BELIEVE I'M LOOKING AT DECEMBER YOUR NEXT.

WELL, THE, THE REGULAR MEETING IN JANUARY WOULD BE JANUARY 18TH, ALTHOUGH WE MAY NEED TO LOOK INTO WHETHER THAT'S AN OKAY DAY OR NOT.

I'M NOT SHOWING I BELIEVE THAT IS OKAY.

SO I RATHER HAVE IT IN JANUARY.

RIGHT.

GAVE US PLENTY OF TIME.

WE'RE NOT IN A HURRY TO DO A JUDGMENT CALLS AND ALL VANCE.

YEP.

I AGREE.

OKAY, MR. CHAIRMAN, SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS GATHER THE INFORMATION AND, AND MEET IN JANUARY BEFORE WE GO OUT TO THE PUBLIC.

YES, SIR.

YES, LET'S DO THAT.

OKAY, GREAT.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION FOR THIS ITEM? NO.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, LET'S MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER TWO.

IT'S REVIEWING THE SPECIFIC USE PROVISION TIME PERIODS.

I BELIEVE THERE WAS A PRESENTATION FOR THAT.

WELL, YES, SIR.

LET ME SHARE MY SCREEN AGAIN.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO, UM, THIS IS IN REGARD TO A QUESTION ABOUT, UM, REQUESTED DISCUSSION ABOUT SUP TIME PERIODS.

AND SO I'LL KIND OF GO THROUGH, UM, GATHERED SOME INFORMATION, UM, PARTING, SEP OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS REGARDING TIME PERIODS AND I GOT SOME INFORMATION TO SHARE AND, UM, I'LL SHARE THAT AND WE'LL OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION.

SO, UM, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION ON, UH, IF HE'S SPECIFIC USE PROVISIONS, SOME CITIES CALL THEM SPECIAL USE PERMITS, BUT SAME ABBREVIATION, UM, IN THE GDC, IN AN SUP YEAH.

SUP SECTION IN THE ZONING CHAPTER, UM, CONDITIONS MAY INCLUDE A LIMITATION ON THE EFFECTIVE TIME PERIOD FOR AN SUP.

I JUST UNDERLINED THE WORD MAY BECAUSE IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A REQUIREMENT OCCASIONALLY, UM, UNLIMITED TIME PERIODS ARE REQUESTED AND OR APPROVED ULTIMATELY BY THE CITY COUNCIL.

AND SO GENERALLY, UM, HERE'S KIND OF THE PROCESS FOR SUP'S AS IT RELATES TO TIME PERIODS, OF COURSE, AS UPS ARE, UH, ZONING CASES, UM, UH, JUST LIKE ANY, YOU KNOW, STREET ZONING CASE OR A PD, IT'S JUST A TYPE OF ZONING APPLICATION IT'S, UM, CONSIDERING YOUR PARTICULAR USE, UM, ON A PARTICULAR PROPERTY, ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE OR NOT FOR THAT SITE.

UM, SO AS IT RELATES TO TIME PERIODS, WHEN AN APPLICANT TURNS IN THEIR SUP APPLICATION, UH, THEY ARE ASKED, UM, TO ESTABLISH A, UH, REQUESTED TIME PERIOD.

AND SO THAT OFTENTIMES, UM, ALIGNS WITH A BUSINESS PLAN THEY MAY HAVE, OR IT MAY BE A LENDER, UH, SOME SORT OF LENDERS REQUIREMENTS.

SO SOMETIMES THEY NEED KIND OF, YOU KNOW, 25 OR 30 YEAR OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE BASED ON THAT TYPE OF, UM, THAT TYPE OF A REQUIREMENT.

UM, BUT THEN OFTENTIMES THEY, THEY DON'T KNOW, THEY HAVE NO IDEA.

SO, UM, AND THIS IS A QUESTION YOU HAD COUNCILMAN HEDRICK A WHILE BACK AS FAR AS, HOW DO WE KIND OF DO WE GUIDE THEM AT ALL AND THAT SORT OF THING.

CAUSE SOMETIMES THEY JUST REALLY HAVE NO IDEA AND THEY KIND OF LOOK TO STAFF FOR GUIDANCE GUIDANCE.

SO, UM, WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE WILL OFTEN TELL THEM AS WELL, A TYPICAL AND A TYPICAL APPROVED TIME PERIOD, OFTENTIMES IT'S 20 YEARS, WE'LL KIND OF MENTION THAT, THAT NUMBER.

UM, NOW THAT THAT MAY BE 10 DEPEND ON THE USE AND WE'LL KIND OF GO INTO THAT HERE IN THE NEXT SLIDE OR TWO.

UM, BUT, UM, BUT REALLY ULTIMATELY IT IS THEIR DECISION.

WE WOULD REALLY, YOU KNOW, TRY TO KEEP THE BALL IN THEIR COURT AND SAY, WELL, WHAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, IT'S, IT'S UP TO YOU, IT'S YOUR REQUEST.

AND THAT'S ALL SUBJECT TO THE PLAN COMMISSION AND COUNCIL REVIEW AND APPROVAL.

UM, NOW KIND OF MOVING DOWN TO THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, UM, SECTION OCCASIONALLY STAFF WILL HAVE A SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION ON TIME PERIODS, UH, SUCH AS WHEN THEY'RE MAYBE CONCERNED WITH THE USE AND THE SHORT-TERM OR THE LONG-TERM, UH, PERHAPS THERE'S A CATALYST AREA PLAN OR SOME SORT OF REDEVELOPMENT EFFORT THAT MIGHT AFFECT THE SUBJECT PROPERTY.

SO MAYBE THE USE IS APPROPRIATE NOW, BUT IN FIVE, 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, THE CITY MAY HAVE OTHER THINGS IN MIND, OR WE MAY WANT TO KEEP IT OPEN FOR FUTURE REDEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES SORT OF THING.

SO IN SOME CASES YOU'LL SEE US AFRICAN NATION ON THAT AND IN THE REPORT AND PRESENTATION WHEN IT DOES GO TO PLAN COMMISSION AND COUNCIL, BUT, UM, OTHERWISE IF, UM, IF THERE'S NO REAL CONCERN WITH THE PROPOSED USE ON THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, UM, UH, STAFF WILL USUALLY JUST RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE TIME PERIOD AS PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT.

UM, WHETHER THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 20 YEARS, 30 YEARS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, THEN OF COURSE IT GOES TO PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION.

SO OFTENTIMES

[00:45:01]

THEY'LL HAVE A DIFFERENT TIME PERIOD IN MIND.

AND THEN IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL FOR FINAL, UM, APPROVAL AND CONSIDERATION.

AND THEN THAT, UH, COUNCIL ACTION DETERMINES THE, UM, EFFECTIVE TIME PERIOD APPROVED FOR THAT SUP VIA THE ORDINANCE.

SO, UM, I BELIEVE I SENT IN ADDITION TO THE PRESENTATION OF WORD DOCUMENT, IT PUT TOGETHER SOME INFORMATION KIND OF BROKE DOWN, UM, UH, ALL THE SUP'S THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED, UH, AND DENIED FOR THAT MATTER AS WELL.

ALL THE SVPS THAT HAVE BEEN, UM, CONSIDERED IN THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS, UH, IN 2018, 2019, AND TODAY IN 2020.

UM, AND SO FOUND SOME INTERESTING INFORMATION, THIS SLIDE KIND OF SUMMARIZES THAT, UM, I BROKE IT DOWN BY STAFF RECOMMENDATION, THE APPLICANT REQUESTS PLAN COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION, AND THEN WHAT COUNCIL COUNCIL ULTIMATELY, UM, APPROVED OR DENIED.

UH, SO IN THIS TIME PERIOD, UH, THERE WERE 24 SUP'S APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL AND FIVE OR DENIED AGAIN, THIS IS FROM 2018 TO PRESENT, UH, 19 OUT OF THOSE 24 SUP TIME PERIODS APPROVED BY COUNCIL WERE CONSISTENT WITH THE PLAN COMMISSION AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS.

UM, AND AS A SIDE NOTE, SEVERAL DENIALS WERE CONSISTENT AS WELL WITH THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS.

UM, THE APPROVED TIME PERIODS RANGED ANYWHERE FROM FIVE YEARS TO 40 YEARS TO UNLIMITED.

AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS INTERESTING.

THE AVERAGE SEP TIME PERIOD APPROVED FROM 2018 TO PRESENT, UH, WAS 21.95 YEARS.

SO JUST UNDER 20, 22 YEARS.

UM, AND THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE TWO UNLIMITED TIME PERIODS APPROVED THAT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE SENSE FOR THE MATH.

UM, BUT THERE WERE A COUPLE OF UNLIMITED TIME PERIODS APPROVED AS WELL.

UM, SO AS A TREND, AND I KNOW THIS IS A BIT OF A SMALL SAMPLE, BUT IT DOES SEEM TO BE IN LINE WITH KIND OF THE PAST AS WELL.

UM, THE TREND APPEARS TO BE THE SHORTER TIME PERIODS ON AVERAGE TENDED TO BE TATTOO SHOPS HIGH-RISK USES.

AND IN ONE CASE TO GUEST HOUSE WHERE I BELIEVE SHE WAS ONLY APPROVED FOR FIVE YEARS, ALTHOUGH THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE THAT WAS APPROVED FOR AN UNLIMITED TIME PERIOD.

SO THERE'S SOME VARIATION THERE OBVIOUSLY, BUT, UM, BUT WITH THOSE USES, UH, WE SAW A LITTLE BIT SHORTER TIME PERIOD.

UM, AND JUST IN THE PAST, THIS IS PREDATING 2018, BUT, UM, OFTENTIMES RECEPTION FACILITIES WOULD RECEIVE SOME SHORTER TIME PERIODS AS WELL.

UH, IF THEY'RE APPROVED, OF COURSE, AND THAT HAD TO DO WITH SOME UNIQUE, UM, OR NOISE, UM, KIND OF LAID OUT AND MORTAR, ORDERING CONCERNS, THINGS LIKE THAT, OR MAYBE THEY WERE ISSUED A FIVE-YEAR SUP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND REALLY THAT'S WHAT I'VE GOT.

AND I'LL BE GLAD TO OPEN UP FOR QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, MR. GARIN IS IF YOU'D TAKE DOWN THE SLIDE, PLEASE.

THERE WE GO.

ANY QUESTIONS COUNSELING? VERY OKAY.

WELL, MY QUESTION WAS, WE ALWAYS APPROVE A SUP SAY FOR 20 YEARS AND, UH, THEY DON'T DO NOTHING, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T, UH, AND THEN WHEN THEY'RE DOING IT, THEY COME OUT WITH SOMETHING ELSE IT'S NOT THE SAME SUP THAT THEY PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL.

AND THAT'S WHAT BOTHERS ME A LITTLE BIT.

ANY ANSWERS FOR THAT ONE? WELL, I WILL SAY SUP IF IT'S APPROVED, UM, COURSE IF IT'S APPROVED FOR THAT USE, THEY DO HAVE TO FOLLOW THE CONDITIONS OUTLINED IN THAT ORDINANCE.

NOW THAT DOESN'T PRECLUDE A PROPERTY OWNER, UM, FROM DOING, UM, WE ACTUALLY HAD ONE CASE LIKE THIS, UM, FROM, UH, PURSUING A USE THAT'S ALREADY ALLOWED BY, RIGHT? MAYBE THE SUP REQUESTS, THE, THAT USE JUST DIDN'T WORK OUT.

SO THEY DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOMETHING THAT'S ALLOWED BY, RIGHT.

IT'S NOT SUBJECT TO THAT PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS OR ZONING PROCESS.

SO WE HAVE SEEN THAT.

UM, CERTAINLY IF THERE'S A VIOLATION OF AN SEP CONDITION, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT STAFF THEY KNOW.

IF I CAN ADD TO JUST A LITTLE BIT TO WILL'S POINT, IF SOMEBODY COMES IN, IF THE SUP IS NOT SPECIFICALLY TIED TO LET'S SAY A SITE PLAN OR A SPECIFIC ELEVATION, OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT REALLY TIES THE APPLICANTS, YOU KNOW, TO WHAT THEY'RE PRESENTING, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY PRESENT IT TO YOU AND SAY, HEY, I'M BUILDING THIS, BUT IF YOU DON'T TIE THEIR SUP TO THAT SPECIFIC EXHIBIT, THEY COULD COME BACK AND CHANGE THAT.

I MEAN, WE, WE LOOK AT IT WHEN WE ISSUE THE BUILDING PERMIT, WE LOOK AT THE SPECIFIC BOARDING AND THE SUP, AND WHAT'S ATTACHED TO THAT, SUP TO SEE IF THEY'RE BOUND TO THOSE, THEY CAN, THEY CAN COME TELL YOU ANYTHING THEY WANT IN A PUBLIC

[00:50:01]

HEARING, BUT UNLESS YOU TIE THEM TO IT WITH THE ATTACHMENTS TO THE SUV, THEY CAN GO BACK AND DO WHATEVER THE SUP ALLOWS THEM TO DO.

AND THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE A LOT OF TIMES IS WELL THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY PRESENT SOMETHING TO YOU AND THEY THINK IT'S GOING TO WORK.

AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEIR TENANT GOES, NO, THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

I NEED TO DO IT THIS WAY, BUT THE SUP DIDN'T BIND THEM TO THAT.

SO THEY MAY BE ABLE TO DO IT THAT WAY.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE SEE A LOT.

SO THOSE SUP'S, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE IS, WE'LL SAY THEY'RE A ZONING CASE AND THEY BIND THAT APPLICANT TO THAT.

IF IT'S PART OF THAT SUP REQUIREMENT AND YOU MAKE REASONABLE CONDITIONS ON THE BRANDING OF AN SUP AND TIE THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO, THAT SUP SUCH AS RICKY ROCKETS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DIDN'T WANT HIM TO DO SOMETHING OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE TO SAY, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN THE SUP.

BUT IF IT ALLOWS, YOU KNOW, A, UH, I'M GONNA SAY A TRUCK STOP, THEN THEY CAN DO IT, TRUCKS OUT.

THEY LOST TRUCK PARKING AND THEY CAN DO TRUCK PARKING.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE GET INTO WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT, IF YOU, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY PROMISED YOU SOMETHING, YOU GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU WANT IT THAT WAY, YOU GOTTA MAKE SURE IT'S TIED TO THAT ISSUE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU, SIR.

WELL, ONE THING I HAD WAS THAT THE, IT SEEMED IN THE, WITH THE CASES THAT WERE COMING THROUGH THE LENGTH OF THE SUP WAS INBORN INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL TO THE PERCEIVED NUISANCE OF THE SITE, WHICH I MEAN, AND THAT'S FINE, BUT IT SEEMINGLY ALSO WAS RANDOM AT TIMES AS WELL, CONSIDERING WE'D GET SOME CASES IN THE, THEY, THEY WOULD ASK FOR 20 YEARS AND EITHER IN PLANNING COMMISSION OR IN COUNCIL, IT WAS ASKED, WHY DO YOU GO ON FOR 20 YEARS? AND WELL, STAFF TOLD ME, SO, AND THAT'S THE KIND OF THING I WAS LOOKING AT TO AVOID HERE.

I WANTED TO HAVE MAYBE SOME GENERAL GUIDELINES FOR THESE SUP'S THAT, UM, IF IT DOES THESE COUNSELING, THEY'RE MORE UNIFORM, RIGHT? YEAH.

IF IT DOES FALL INTO ONE OF THESE SO-CALLED NEW NUISANCE CHIA CATEGORIES, UH, THE TATTOO SHOP OR THE, UH, THE RE THE, THE DID VARIOUS HOLES EVENT HOLES, THEN WE WOULD HAVE A THREE-YEAR OR FIVE-YEAR TYPE GUIDELINE THAT WE COULD SAY, THIS IS WHAT HAS BEEN SAID AS OUR GUIDELINE.

AND THIS IS WHAT HAS BEEN APPROVED IN THE PAST.

YOU DO THAT KIND OF RESEARCH THERE, AND THE OTHER ONES WHERE THEY HAVE SPECIFIC LENDING REQUIREMENTS, I'M FINE WITH THEM GOING FOR THAT.

IF THAT'S THE REASON, AT LEAST THERE'S A REASON BEHIND THAT, THAT THEY CAN COME TO US.

WHAT I DON'T LIKE HEARING ON COUNCILS WHEN THEY COME, OH, STAFF TOLD ME I COULD GO FOR THIS.

AND YOU GUYS DO MAKE EDUCATED GUESSES, BUT I'D LIKE TO HAVE A DOCUMENT THAT WE POINT TO THAT WILL STAFF TOLD ME IT WAS FIVE YEARS WOULD BE GOOD FOR THIS ONE.

BUT THEN ON A SIMILAR CASE LATER, OH, 10 YEARS IS GOOD AT THE SAME TIME, WHICH I'D LIKE TO TREAT THE USE.

IF THE USE OF SIMILAR, I'D LIKE TO TREAT THE SUP RECOMMENDATIONS AT THE SAME, SAME TIME.

UH, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S ALL FINE.

IF THE, UH, UNLESS THERE'S SOME OTHER REASON THAT THE, UH, THERE'S A LENDING REASON OR A FINANCIAL TYPE REASON THAT THEY COME WITH AND SAY, THIS IS WHY I MUST HAVE 30 YEARS OR SO FORTH.

I HAVE A QUESTION.

YES.

OR COUNSELING VERA.

OKAY.

EXCUSE ME.

WHEN, UM, WHEN THEY COME IN, WHEN I WAS IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING, THEY COME IN THERE, THE GUY WANTED A FIVE-YEAR, MAYBE A 10 YEAR SUP AND SOMEBODY IN THE, IN THE P AND Z TOLD THEM YOU HAD TO GET 20 YEARS.

AND THE GUY DIDN'T HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT 20 YEARS.

SO THEN THEY SAY, WELL, UM, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE IT FOR 20 YEARS? HE DIDN'T KNOW WHY, BECAUSE SOMEBODY TOLD HIM, OH, YOU CAN GET 20 YEARS IN HOW I THINK WE NEED TO GET IT MORE UNIFORM.

YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF SAYING, YOU GET 20 YEARS, 10 YEARS WOULD BE GOOD.

THEN YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN IN 10 YEARS.

YOU KNOW? SO THAT'S, THAT'S, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT OR, OR THE, UM, P AND Z TELLING THEM TO GET MORE TIME.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT THE P AND Z SHOULD BE TELLING A CLIENT OR ONE GET IN THE SUP UH, WE SHOULD DICTATE TO THEM HOW MANY YEARS THEY SHOULD BE GETTING.

I THINK PART OF THAT THOUGH, IS YOU HAVE, UH, TWO CHECKS THERE, RIGHT? YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE REST OF THE HIGH-END COMMISSION AGREE ON THAT EXTENSION.

IF THAT'S THE CASE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

AND THEN IT HAS TO GO TO COUNCIL AS

[00:55:01]

WELL.

SO THERE'S, THERE'S TWO CHECKS ON THAT.

UH, IF THEY WANT TO EXTEND IT OUT A LITTLE LONGER, MY CONCERN, LIKE I SAID, IS JUST, IF YOU HAVE, LIKE THE FIRST ITEM ON YOUR LIST WAS AN AUTO SALES USE AND WHERE THE APPLICANT REQUESTS AT 20 YEARS, BUT THEN STAFF RECOMMENDS FIVE.

WE MIGHT HAVE ANOTHER AUDIENCE DOWN THE WAY WHERE THE STAFF RECOMMENDED 20 YEARS, THOSE TYPE OF USES ARE SIMILAR.

I JUST WANT TO HAVE A UNIFORM.

AT LEAST THEN WE COULD HAVE SOME SORT OF DOCUMENT WHERE THIS IS WHAT WE'VE SEEN HISTORICALLY.

THIS IS WHAT'S BEEN APPROVED.

THIS IS WHAT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS.

AND YOU COULD ALWAYS POINT TO, THIS IS OUR GUIDELINE, RATHER THAN JUST STAFF ON THIS SPECIFIC CASE, WE PULLED ONE OR THE OTHER.

AND SOMETIMES IT MAKES IT A LITTLE TOUGH ON IN, AND I THINK STAFF AUTOMOBILE RELATION AND USING 10 YEARS, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, AND IN THE, UH, FACILITIES, YOU KNOW, THE, UM, PARTY FACILITIES, FIVE-YEAR, YOU KNOW, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE A LITTLE BIT EASIER, BUT STAFF ALSO HAS TO WEIGH OF WHAT DOES THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SHOW FOR, YOU KNOW, THAT USE COMING UP OR WHAT IS THE PROPOSED USE IN THAT AREA, MAYBE IN THE FUTURE.

AND IF IT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE EXISTING USE, YOU WANT TO KIND OF KEEP THOSE SHORTER SO THAT THEY'LL, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY GO AWAY OR ALLOW THAT DEVELOPMENT TO GO ON AS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SEES IT.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT FROM THE BIG PICTURE, STAFF HAS TO KIND OF WEIGH THOSE OUT AND SEE, WHERE IS THIS? YOU KNOW, ISN'T A COMPATIBLE USE.

I HAD A GUY COME IN THE OTHER DAY.

THAT WAS, HE, YOU KNOW, HE WAS THE, IT WAS A REALTOR THAT WANTED TO SELL THE BUILDING NEXT DOOR TO WHAT WAS AN OUTSIDE STORAGE USE.

IT WAS A RECYCLING FACILITY AND HE GOES, WELL, WE LOOKED IT UP AND HAD SUP EXPIRES IN SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR.

WILL IT GO AWAY? THEN I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT IT'LL GO AWAY BECAUSE THAT GUY CAN COME IN AND ASK FOR A RENEWAL OF THE SUP.

AND HE DID.

AND I THINK THAT WAS GRANTED.

AND SO THE GUY SAID, MY CLIENT WILL ONLY BUY THE BUILDING IF THAT USE IS GOING TO GO AWAY IN A SHORT TIME.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE GET INTO THOSE WEIGHTING THINGS ON WHAT STAFF REQUIRES AND I'M SURE STAFF COULD COME UP WITH A LIST OF, HEY, THESE ARE THE USES.

AND KIND OF, MAYBE HERE'S WHAT THE AVERAGE OF WE'VE BEEN DOING, YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE.

AND HERE'S WHAT WE FEEL WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

CAUSE YOUR, YOUR INVESTMENT IN A, UH, A PARTY ROOM FACILITY IS VERY MINIMAL.

SO THAT RECOUP ON INVESTMENT IS EASY TO COME UP IN FIVE YEARS.

BUT IF I'M GOING TO DO A LARGE AMOUNT OF CONSTRUCTION OR SOMETHING THERE, MY RETURN ON INVESTMENT MAY NEED TO BE OUT 20 YEARS AND IT MAY BE A SIMILAR NEWS TO YEAH.

RIGHT.

I, I COMPLETELY AGREE.

LIKE I SAID, WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ONES THAT HAVE THE, MORE OF THE FINANCIAL CONCERNS THAT YOU DO HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT TIME AND RETURN, IT TAKES 20, 30 YEARS SOMETIME TO GET THAT BACK.

AND DEPENDING ON YOUR LOAN THAT YOU GET.

SO, AND, AND I AGREE WITH, WITH WE'LL EVEN IN YOUR PRESENTATION, YOU SAID THAT WE GOT TO LOOK AT THE FUTURE USE AND THE LAND USE MAP TO LOOK