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TODAY WILL BE

[00:00:01]

RECORDED.

WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED THEN.

WELCOME TO THE

[Development Services Committee Meeting on March 15, 2021.]

MARCH 15TH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE MEETING.

I HAVE COUNCILMAN ROBERT VERA AND COUNCILMAN AND I'M A COUNCIL MEMBER, DYLAN HEDRICK, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE.

SO WE'LL GO AHEAD WITH THE FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM OUR LAST MEETING.

I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE MINUTES BY COUNCIL AND VERA.

SECOND SECOND BY COUNCILMAN NEIL.

ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

I MEAN IT'S APPROVED.

ALRIGHT.

SO ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION.

SO WE HAVE FIRST ITEM WE'RE LOOKING AT IS REVIEWING AN ORDINANCE REGARDING HISTORIC OR ICONIC SIGNS.

MR. GUERIN, WAS THERE A PRESENTATION AVAILABLE OR WE JUST HAVE THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED PREVIOUSLY AN EMAIL? WELL, BASICALLY A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH.

UM, SO I, I HAVE RESET SINCE OUR LAST MEETING.

OBVIOUSLY OUR LAST MEETING WAS THE FIRST DAY BACK IN THE WINTER STORMS. SO, UM, UNDERSTAND NOT EVERYONE REALLY HAD THE CHANCE TO LOOK MUCH AT IT.

WE HAD OTHER PRIORITIES.

SO, UM, OUR, WE SENT, UM, THAT ORDINANCE INFORMATION, UM, THAT, UH, MY TEAM HAD GATHERED FROM SOME OF, SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES, UM, BOTH IN TEXAS AND OUTSIDE OF TEXAS, BUT ALSO, UM, LAST WEEK, UH, SENT SOME PHOTOS, WHICH I'VE GOT THOSE PULLED UP IN A POWERPOINT, WHICH I CAN PULL UP IF YOU'RE ABLE TO VIEW THAT.

UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, I WAS PLANNING ON KIND OF GOING THROUGH THAT AND JUST SHOWING SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT SOME ICONIC AND HISTORIC SIGNS LOOK LIKE, UH, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO SOME OTHER COMMUNITIES.

SO SURE.

HAPPY FOR YOU TO PRESENT THAT IF YOU HAVE THAT AVAILABLE.

GREAT.

YEAH, LET ME SHARE YOUR SCREEN HERE.

HERE WE GO.

OKAY.

AND THIS SHOULD BE JUST EXACTLY WHAT I SAID, UH, SENT YOU ALL THE OTHER DAY.

UM, BUT JUST SOME IMAGES COLLECTED.

UM, THESE INCLUDE SOME OF THE CITIES THAT WERE, UM, THAT WE SHARED THE ORDINANCE INFORMATION WITH YOU ALL A MINUTE INCLUDES MAYBE A FEW OTHERS AS WELL.

UM, BUT HERE'S JUST A FEW EXAMPLES MARBLE FALLS, WHICH HAS A HISTORIC ICONIC SIGN ORDINANCE.

UM, THERE'S AN EXAMPLE FROM A RESTAURANT, UH, BLUEBONNET CAFE WALL SIGN, OBVIOUSLY WITH THE PARKING DIRECTIONAL SIGN WITH IT.

UM, SAME CITY MARBLE FALLS.

THEY'VE GOT, UH, UM, THIS PROJECTING SIGN HERE.

THERE'S UPTOWN HAS SOME KIND OF VINTAGE NEON AS PART OF IT.

UM, MCLEAN, TEXAS, KIND OF AN OLD, A MOTEL SIGN SHAPED LIKE A CACTUS CACTUS IN FARGO, NORTH DAKOTA.

HERE'S A, UH, PROJECTING SIGN OF SOME KIND WITH THE WORDS FARGO ON IT.

I'M SITTING IN CALIFORNIA.

UM, THE RESTAURANT SIGN AND SAME CITY, UH, KIND OF ANOTHER RESTAURANT SIGN, UH, NORTH AUGUSTA, SOUTH CAROLINA, IT'S A POLE SIGN.

I KIND OF LOOKED INTO THIS A LITTLE BIT.

IT DIDN'T, THE SIGN ITSELF DOESN'T LOOK REAL REMARKABLE.

UM, BUT I LOOKED UP THIS BUSINESS IN NORTH AUGUSTA AND THEY'VE APPARENTLY BEEN THERE FOR 40 PLUS YEARS, UH, AT THE SAME LOCATION.

SO I THINK IT HAS TO MORE TO DO WITH JUST, YOU KNOW, THE STORE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS AS A WHOLE.

UM, I PRESUME THIS SIGN HAS BEEN UP FOR QUITE SOME TIME, SO THEY CLASSIFIED THIS AS AN HISTORIC, UH, OR ICONIC SIGN AND JUST A MOTHER KIND OF, UH, PLACES THAT, UH, MY TEAM HAD COME ACROSS SOME UNIQUE SIGNS, IF YOU WILL, JUST ONE SCAN AND SAN ANTONIO.

AND OF COURSE, SOME OF US HAVE, YOU MAY HAVE BEEN HERE AT THIS LOCATION IF YOU'VE BEEN TO SEATTLE, THE PUBLIC MARKET CENTER, AND HERE'S A ACTUALLY OUT OF COUNTRY EXAMPLE AND JUST SOME LOCAL, THESE ARE JUST OBVIOUSLY POSSIBLE EXAMPLES, BUT I BELIEVE THEY'VE BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE IN SOME PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS IS THE GARLAND SHOPPING CENTER SIGN ON SOUTH GARLAND AVENUE.

UM, UH, AND THEN OF COURSE HERE'S THE BEEF HOUSE, A RESTAURANT NEAR SATURDAY AND KINGSLEY, I BELIEVE, UM, HAS BEEN THERE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

AND SO JUST KIND OF WANT TO THROW THESE OUT THERE THAT IF THIS ORDINANCE WERE CONSIDERED FOR GARLAND, UM, THESE ARE MAYBE SOME POTENTIAL SIGNS THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED AS HISTORIC OR ICONIC.

SO I BELIEVE THAT CONCLUDES ALL THE PHOTO EXAMPLES, MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU, MR. GARREN.

I'VE

[00:05:01]

GOT A FEW THOUGHTS ON THESE HISTORIC ORDINANCES AND DESIGNATIONS, BUT IF THE OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS WITH THE WAY AT FIRST, I'M HAPPY TO HEAR THEIR THOUGHTS FOR SURE.

SURE.

YEAH.

UH, REALLY, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE'S A LOOKING AT THE MATERIAL, MR. GARREN PROVIDED A SOMEWHAT OF A DESIGNATION BETWEEN EITHER A HISTORICAL AREA, WHICH HAS SIGNS IN IT OR HISTORICAL SIGN ITSELF.

SO IF WE WERE GOING TO CONSIDER IT AN ORDINANCE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE NEED TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO MAKE A HISTORICAL DISTRICT MUCH LIKE A DOWNTOWN DISTRICT THAT SOME OTHERS HAVE MARBLE FALLS OUT OF OLD TOWN DISTRICT, OR WE WANT TO MAKE AN ORDINANCE WHICH WOULD APPLY TO SPECIFIC SIGNS THEMSELVES THAT ARE STANDALONE.

AND THEN IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THE ORDINANCE, WE HAVE TO DETERMINE WHAT CRITERIA WOULD MAKE ANY.

IT WOULD BE AN AGE REQUIREMENT AGAIN, MARBLE FALLS HAD VARIOUS DESIGNATIONS FOR 50 YEARS OR OLDER OR 25 TO 50 YEARS.

AND THEN, UH, YOUNGER SIGNS THAN THAT.

OH, LOOK AT MATERIALS, HISTORICAL CONTEXT.

I KNOW SOME OF THESE THAT THEY'RE HISTORICAL PLACES WHERE A BUSINESS MIGHT NOT BE IN BUSINESS ANYMORE AND ALSO CONSIDERING THE SIGNIFICANCE TO THE CITY ITSELF.

SO IT'S FEW OF THE THINGS TO CONSIDER WHETHER OR NOT TO DESIGNATE THE SIGN.

AND THEN IF A SIGN IS DESIGNATED, WHAT REGULATIONS WE PLACE ON THAT IS THEIR ABILITY TO RELOCATE OR UPGRADE TO SIGN WITH MODERN MATERIALS CHANGE, MAYBE BEYOND MY, AS TO LED OR SOMETHING THAT KEEPS THE SAME CHARACTER.

HOW WOULD WE DEAL WITH THAT? AND THEN FINALLY, WHAT WOULD WE DO IF THE SITE IS NOT MAINTAINED? SO, UH, WOULD THE NEW PROPERTY OWNER BE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN THE SIGN AND ITS CURRENT CONDITION? OR IS THERE A PENALTY FOR IT'S NOT BEING MAINTAINED OR CAN IT BE MOVED OR HOW WOULD WE DEAL WITH THOSE KINDS OF, UH, KIND OF QUESTIONS? SO THAT WAS JUST A FEW THOUGHTS I HAD, BUT I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS AS WELL.

LET'S SEE IF WE'RE MOVING TOWARDS THIS.

ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF PUTTING FOR ORDINANCE THAT WOULD PROTECT FROM STORKS? YEAH, I I'M, I'M SORT OF IN LINE WITH THE SITE ITSELF AS OPPOSED TO BEING, HAVING A HISTORIC DISTRICT, UH, OBVIOUSLY DOWNTOWN IS THAT HISTORICAL DISTRICT HERE.

HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK OF, UM, UH, UPON TOP OF THOSE, AND WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS IN THE PAST AROUND POPPING THOSE IN SOME OF THE OTHER, UH, CHAINS THAT HAVE SOME ICONIC SIGNAGE AROUND SOME OF THOSE, AND I WOULD NOT WANT TO LIMIT THOSE TO JUST GOING INTO THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

UH, SO I'VE, I, I'M LEANING MORE TOWARD, UH, LET'S LOOK AT THE SIGN ITSELF AND, AND HAVE, HAVE OUR ENERGIES AROUND THE SIGN, AS OPPOSED TO THE DESIGNATED AREA.

ALSO THE POINT THAT YOU MENTIONED, WHAT DID WE SAY? YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT DID WE LOOK AT WHEN A BUSINESS IS GOING TO BE VACANT AND THE OWNER LEAVES? YES, THAT'S, THAT'S GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE THERE.

UH, AND OBVIOUSLY FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO WITH SOME LEGAL LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IF, FOR SOME BY CHANCE THAT THEY RECEIVED SOME KIND OF CITY FUNDING INITIALLY OF SOME KIND OF PUBLIC FUNDS.

COULD WE PUT SOMETHING IN THAT AGREEMENT INDICATED IF THEY DO LEAVE THEN, UH, PRIOR TO THEM LEAVING? I DON'T KNOW, LEGALLY IF WE CAN DO THAT.

SO, UH, MR. ENGLAND, WE MAY LEAN ON YOU TO GIVE US SOME THOUGHTS THERE.

WELL, YOU SAY, AND, AND I GUESS I'LL CONSIDER IT, I THINK FROM MY UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR QUESTION, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES.

AND WE, WE HAVE FREQUENTLY PUT IN CLAWBACK PROVISIONS WHEN WE'VE AWARDED SOMETHING OF VALUE TO SOMEONE FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PURPOSES OR FOR DEVELOPER DEVELOPMENT PURPOSES.

AND THE CLAWBACK PROVISIONS WOULD JUST BE WHATEVER, SUBJECT TO WHATEVER, UM, UM, RESTRICTIONS THAT OR PROVISIONS, UM, THAT WE PLACE IN THE CONTRACT.

AND SO WHATEVER YOU THINK A VALID TIME FOR MIGHT BE TO REMAIN IN EXISTENCE FOR THE CLAWBACK TIME PERIOD TO EXPIRE, THEN WE COULD, WE COULD DEVELOP THAT WHATEVER.

SO IT'S POSSIBLE TO PUT SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE TO DO THAT.

SURE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

I AM SORRY.

NO, GO AHEAD, BRITTANY.

I'M GOOD.

I WE'RE GOING TO TAKE HISTORICAL SIGN.

THAT MEANS 50 AND ABOVE 40 ABOVE, OR WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? YEAH, YOU CAN, WE CAN MAKE THAT DECISION OURSELVES.

SO WHATEVER WE'RE LOOKING AT, I KNOW MARBLE FALLS HAD ONE THAT 50 AND OLDER WERE HISTORIC AND THEN 25 YEARS TO 50 YEARS FOR VINTAGE.

AND THEN THEY HAD ANOTHER CATEGORY FOR REPLICA SIGNS UNDER THAT.

SO WE CAN MAKE WHATEVER IT IS NATION WE WANT.

OKAY.

AND KNOW THAT THEY DO LIKE IF, OKAY, THE BLUE BONNET CAFE AND MARBLE FALLS, UM, I'LL STOP THERE.

I'VE BEEN

[00:10:01]

THERE FOR MANY TIMES.

I GOT THE BEST PIES IN THE WORLD.

THEY DO THEM ANYWAY.

UM, IF SOMEBODY, OKAY, SAY THE PEOPLE THAT OWN BLUE BONNET CAFE SELL TO SOMEBODY ELSE, BUT THEY WANT TO KEEP THE SIGN THERE.

SHALL WE LIVE? LET THEM KEEP THE SIGN.

I SAY THIS, OR WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT OR WHAT THE, THE INTENT OF A LOT OF THESE, FROM WHAT I READ IN THE MATERIALS, MR. AND VIDA WAS THAT IF WE DESIGNATE IT AS A HISTORICAL SIGN THAN IT IS THEN EXEMPT FROM OUR NORMAL SIGN REGULATIONS, AS FAR AS SIZE AND MATERIAL AND SHAPE AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING.

SO YEAH, I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

OTHERWISE, IF WE WANT TO PUT ANY REGULATIONS ON THAT SIGN HAS TO BE MAINTAINED OR, OR THAT SORT OF THING.

IT'S UP TO US.

IF WE WANT TO SAY, IF IT'S A HISTORIC SIGN, YOU CANNOT REMOVE IT.

SO I LIKE TO HEAR THE COMMITTEE'S THOUGHTS ON THAT AS WELL.

WELL, THEY'RE JUST SHORT.

IT SOUNDED LIKE DOWNTOWN GARLAND.

UH, I AGREE.

THAT'S A HISTORIC DISTRICT RIGHT THERE, BUT WE STILL HAVE OTHER SIGNS SCATTERED ALL OVER TOWN.

AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER THOSE TOO, NOT JUST THE HISTORICAL AREAS, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT TO SAY.

SO, SO WHAT I'M HEARING, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'D LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD CONSIDER SIGN INDIVIDUALLY.

THAT'S WHAT COUNCILMAN MCNEIL SAID AS WELL.

UH, THE QUESTION THEN IS WHAT PRIVILEGES DOES THAT DESIGNATION GEAR ANTHRACIS I THINK SIGN, BUT 50 YEARS OLD SHOULD BE A HISTORIC.

I MEAN, THAT'S ME, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT Y'ALL RIGHT.

SO THEN IF WE HAVE THAT DESIGNATION AS A HISTORIC SIGN IN 50 YEARS OLD, THEN, UM, MAYBE MR. DARREN CAN HELP CLARIFY THAT FROM WHAT I READ THE REGULATIONS AND THE VARIOUS OTHER CITIES, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE THAT DESIGNATION WOULD EXEMPT THE SIGN FROM ANY CURRENT SIGNAGE REGULATIONS.

UM, RATHER THAN REALLY DIDN'T SEEM TO GRANT THAT MANY PRIVILEGE OTHER THAN JUST THAT DESTINATION WAS NOT EXEMPT FOR THE CURRENT CODE PRETTY MUCH.

YES, SIR.

YEAH, OF COURSE.

UM, UH, UM, WELL, AND THEN OF COURSE, IF IT'S ADVERTISING SOMETHING THAT'S NOT ON THE PREMISE, THEN THAT DOESN'T COUNT AGAINST THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND SOME ARBOR FALLS TO HAD IT, OR IF IT DOES ADVERTISE SOMETHING ON THERE, THEN COUNTS A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE.

NOW THAT THAT MAY GET INTO WITH OUR REDIS RECENT GDC CHANGE ON HOW WE REGULATE ON PREMISE OR OFF-PREMISE, UM, THAT, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WE'D HAVE TO WORK THROUGH OR FIGURE THAT OUT WITH THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

BUT, UM, YES, SIR, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH CORRECT OTHER THAN JUST PRESERVING THE SIGN.

UM, WHICH I GUESS IS PART OF THE INTENT FOR SPECIALTY, FOR THE HISTORIC SIGNS.

OKAY.

WELL, ARE WE GONNA ON THE HISTORIC SIGN? LIKE, OKAY.

LIKE THE BLUE PLANET, UM, IF THE NEW OWNER WANT TO CHANGE IT TO NEON AND ALL THAT, AND THAT'S GOING TO TAKE AWAY FROM BEING HISTORIC RIGHT.

WELL, WELL THAT, THAT'S WHAT WE NEEDED TO DECIDE IF THAT'S, UH, IF WE WANT TO SAY THAT THE HISTORIC SIGN, YOU CAN NOT CHANGE THE MATERIAL OR TYPE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT'S UP TO US, YOU KNOW, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I WANT TO REALIZE THAT THERE'S A NEW ARTISTIC EXPRESSION WITH NEW SIGNS OR NEW AESTHETIC CONCERNS THAT WE MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THAT WE KIND OF RECONCILE THE HISTORIC WITH THE CURRENT AND FUTURE.

BUT, UH, REALLY, IF IT IS A STORE FAMOUS THAT DESIGNATION 50 YEARS, THEN WE MAY WANT TO SHY AWAY FROM THAT, SAY, OKAY, IT'S A SWORD IN ITS CURRENT FORM.

WE WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY AND PROVIDE THAT DESIGNATION, UH, SOMETHING FOR THE OTHER YOUNGER SCIENCE, VINTAGE SCIENCE, 25 YEARS, MAYBE WE HAVE DIFFERENT CRITERIA, BUT SORT OF THAT HISTORIC 50 YEAR OLD SCIENCE IN ITS CURRENT FORM, I'M FINE WITH KEEPING IT REGULATES, SAY IN ITS CURRENT FORM, IF IT MAINTAINS THE SAME TYPE OF MATERIALS AND THAT SORT OF THING, PAINT SCHEME, POLAR SCHEME, THE TEXT AND THE SIZE AND THE FONT AND ALL THAT.

BUT IF A NEW OWNER COMES IN AND KEY ONES TO REDO IT, UH, AND IT'S REGISTER AT HISTORIC SIGN, DOES HE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO USE THAT, EVEN THOUGH HE'S BUYING THE PROPERTY AND EVERYTHING.

AND I THINK AT THAT POINT HE WOULD LOSE THIS HISTORIC DESIGNATION.

IF HE'S COMING IN AND CHANGING IT FROM WHAT IT WAS

[00:15:01]

PREVIOUSLY, HE'S CHANGING COLORS OR CHANGING MATERIALS, THEN, THEN YOU WOULD LOSE THAT HISTORIC DESIGNATION BE UNDER OUR CURRENT SIGNAGE ORDINANCES.

OKAY.

I'M GOOD WITH THAT COUNSELING MEALS.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT A 50 YEAR TIMELINE? OR DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER TIMELINE IN MIND PERHAPS, OR, UM, I'M GOOD WITH THE 50, HOWEVER, I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT, I KNOW WE HAVE A COUPLE OF, UM, MEMORIALS.

UM, THE ONE THAT COMES TO MIND IS THE DAVID MOORE MEMORIAL OF CENTERVILLE.

UH, CAN WE DESIGNATE SOMETHING OF THAT SIGNIFICANCE THAT IF THERE IS A, UH, MEMORIAL, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, MR. OFFICER MOORE WAS ONE OF OUR OFFICERS, CAN WE, UH, CAN WE CARVE THAT OUT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF IT'S SOMETHING THEY SHOULD BE REPRESENTATIVE OF A MEMORIAL SIGN, THAT THE CITY WOULD HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL TO ADDRESS THOSE AS, AS NEED BE, THAT WOULD BE NOW MY ONLY CONCERN WITH THE 50 YEAR IS AROUND THOSE MEMORIAL SIGNS LIKE THAT.

RIGHT.

AND I THINK WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THERE IS A CERTAIN DISTINCTION BETWEEN COMMERCIAL SIGNS THAT A LOT OF THE EXAMPLES THAT MR GAVIN PROVIDED AND THESE MEMORIAL TYPE SENTENCES THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY COMMERCIAL SIDE, CORRECT? YES, I TOTALLY AGREE.

AND I WAS JUST WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE MEMORIALS DIDN'T GET CAUGHT UP IN THIS WEB HERE.

AND COULD WE DO THAT A WILL, IS THAT YES, SIR.

I BELIEVE KIND OF, AS MR. CHAIRMAN SAID, I, I THINK IT'S, UM, THOSE MAY ALREADY BE EXEMPT.

I MEAN, THOSE ARE, THAT WAS A CITY SPONSORED SIGN, YOU KNOW? UM, UH, I BELIEVE THAT PROBABLY HAD SOME EXEMPTIONS ANYWAY.

UH, CERTAINLY OUTSIDE OF THIS PROGRAM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MR. ENGLAND, IS THAT, UM, LIKE A FAIR ASSESSMENT OR I'M SORRY, REPEAT THAT QUESTION.

OKAY.

SURE.

WE'LL WE'LL SIGNS ERECTED AND MAINTAINED BY THE CITY ARE EXEMPT FROM THE SIGN REGULATION.

YEAH.

YES.

ALL GOVERNMENT SIGNS ARE, BUT THAT WAS THE QUESTION.

OKAY.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN MR. CHAIR, I'M, I'M GOOD WITH 50 YEAR DESIGNATION.

OKAY.

AND WELL THEN THE MECHANICS OF THIS, I KNOW SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES HAD A HISTORIC SIGN APPLICATION PROCESS THAT IS THEN PROCESSED BY THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.

AND SOME CITIES HAD IT GO THROUGH THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, WHAT THE MECHANICS OF THIS DESTINATION, WHERE WE LIKE TO DECIDE TO CHOOSE, WE WANT TO LET OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT DEPARTMENT, OR DO WE WANT TO HAVE A REVIEW OF A CITIZEN COMMITTEE, LIKE TANK ADMISSION, OR EVEN THROUGH COUNCIL COUNCIL? YOU THINK YOU SHOULD GO THROUGH FLYING COMMISSION FIRST OR JUST STRAIGHT TO COUNCIL? OR HOW SHOULD WE, WHAT SHOULD BE THE PROCESS? YEAH.

I HAVE A PROBLEM GOING THROUGH THE CLEANSE ZONE BECAUSE SOME OF THOSE, SOME OF THOSE COMMISSIONERS HAVEN'T READ ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS AND I DON'T TAKE THAT.

THEY CAN MAKE A GOOD JUDGMENT ON SOMEBODY LIKE THAT.

I MEAN, THAT'S MY CALLING.

UM, BUT I THINK IT SHOULD GO THROUGH, MAYBE I SHOULD GO THROUGH A COMMITTEE OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND AMBER, WELL, MR. CHAIR, I WOULD, I GUESS I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT WOULD COME RIGHT THROUGH WITH THE SITE PLAN, GO THROUGH THE NORMAL PROCESS WITH PNC, TO ME, IT'S JUST ALMOST LIKE A ONE-STOP SHOP.

IT JUST FLOWS.

AND THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THESE VARIANCE.

RIGHT.

AND THAT WOULD BE MY THOUGHT WITH BED, JUST ATTACHED TO AB ALONG, ALONG THE NOTE WITH THE SITE PLAN OR WHATEVER OTHER DOCUMENTS AND JUST HAVE IT FLOW THROUGH P AND Z AND THEN COME TO COUNCIL.

OKAY.

I THAT'S MY THOUGHTS TOO.

I LIKE THAT SITE PLAN IDEA WHERE WE HAVE IT COME THROUGH, FIND COMMISSION, THEN COUNCIL, THEN IT COULD BE IN ADDITION TO A SITE PLAN OR A SEPARATE ITEM, I GUESS, TO BE APPROVED AS WELL.

UM, MR. OAK, MR. GARREN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S FEASIBLE FOR THIS TYPE OF DESIGNATION? THAT'S, THAT'S A PROCESS WE CAN ESTABLISH.

OKAY, GO AHEAD.

I WANTED TO SAY, IF IT GOES THROUGH THE PLANNING AND ZONING A WILL, CAN YOU FURNISH THE REGULATIONS OR THE ORDINANCE AND NO MA'AM TO THE PLANNING COMMITTEE, SO THEY KNOW WHAT, WHAT IS AND WHAT IS NOT.

YES, SIR.

IF THIS IS AN ORDINANCE THAT ULTIMATELY THE CITY COUNCIL, WE NEED TO APPROVE IN ORDER TO LAUNCH A PROGRAM LIKE THIS, UM, CERTAINLY IF IT'S THE PLANNING COMMISSION

[00:20:01]

IS GOING TO BE INVOLVED AS AN ADVISORY BOARD, WE CERTAINLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE ORDINANCE, RIGHT.

THAT'S THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WANT.

SO THEY KNOW THE RULES AND THE REGULATION AND ORDINANCE AND ALL THAT.

UM, I'M, I'M GOOD WITH THAT.

OKAY.

AND I LIKE A MARBLE FALLS.

I LIKE THEIR ORDINANCE THAT THEY SPLIT THEIR HISTORIC SIGN FOR GREATER THAN 50 YEARS.

AS AN EXAMPLE, REALLY TOUCHING ON THE FOUR ELEMENTS TO YOUR I'M READING OFF THEIR, THEIR PORTION.

JUST TALKING ABOUT MATERIALS.

TECHNOLOGY DESIGN IS ONE OF THE INTEGRITY OF THE SIGN, WHICH TALKS ABOUT THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES AND THE SAFETY OF THE SIGN, AND THEN ALSO LOCATION.

AND THEY DON'T HAVE OFFSITE SIGNS OR BILLBOARDS THAT ARE, ARE AVAILABLE TO BE DESIGNATED HISTORIC CENTER, UH, THAT PERHAPS TO GIVE OUR ATTORNEY'S OFFICE A GOOD GO BY, TO LOOK AT, FOR AN ORDINANCE, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS SORT OF THING, IT'S WITH THE 50 YEAR HISTORIC DESIGNATION.

SO YES, CONCUR.

I, I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH THAT ONE.

UH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD STARTING POINT THERE TO BUILD, BUILD OFF THAT AS A FOUNDATION, CORRECT? NO, WE WANT TO MAKE A MOTION THEN TO HAVE OUR C'S FROM ERNIE CITY'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DRAFTED SAMPLE ORDINANCE, AND THEN COME BACK TO US IN A FUTURE MEETING THAT WE REVIEWED BEFORE WE TAKE IT TO COUNCIL.

CERTAINLY, UH, MR. CHAIR, UH, WOULD MOVE THAT.

UM, WE WOULD, UM, ASK STAFF TO UTILIZE THE, THE, UM, PROVIDED DOCUMENT FROM MARBLE FALLS AS A STARTING POINT IN DRAFTING THE ORDINANCE AND BRINGING THAT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE FOR CONSIDERATION AND THEN FOR POTENTIAL, UM, PRESENTATION TO COUNCIL SECOND.

ALL RIGHT.

I HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN NEIL SECOND BY COUNCILMAN RIVERA.

ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

AYE.

RIGHT.

MR. ENGLAND, YOU, YOU HAVE YOUR MARCHING ORDERS THERE.

ALL RIGHT.

VERY GOOD.

SO IF THERE'S NO MORE DISCUSSION ON THAT TOPIC, WE'LL MOVE TO OUR NEXT ITEM TWO B, WHICH IS A REVIEW OF PERIMETER STRAINING WALLS.

I KNOW MR. GARREN SENT A SPREADSHEET OUT OF STATUS AND LOCATION OF ALL THE CURRENT SCREENING WALLS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

NOW, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD TO THAT MR. GARRETT, OR A LITTLE BIT, THE COMMITTEE HAD EXPRESSED SOME INTEREST IN, UH, RICHARDSON'S, UH, PROGRAM.

NOW THEY'VE DEALT WITH THAT IN THE PAST.

I'VE GOT SOME, UH, INFORMATION THAT'S FAIRLY HIGH LEVEL, BUT SOME, UH, CONVERSATIONS AND SOME EMAIL EXCHANGES.

I GOT BACK FROM RICHARDSON CITY STAFF, UM, JUST FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES FOR THE COMMITTEE.

UM, THERE WAS MENTIONED A BOND PROGRAM THAT KIND OF STARTED STARTED THERE.

UM, GOING BACK TO 2006, THE CITY OF RICHARDSON HAD A BOND, A BOND PROGRAM THAT YEAR.

THERE WAS A 1.4 MILLION, UH, APPROVED FOR CITY OWNED WALLS FOR RECONSTRUCTION OF, UH, WALLS TO PROVIDE NEW SCREEN WALLS, UM, FOR STRATEGIC LOCATIONS.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY USED, YOU USED THAT UP.

AND, UM, THAT, UH, THAT WAS DONE SOMETIME A WHILE BACK.

UM, THERE WAS ALSO A $3 MILLION ALLOCATED FOR HOA WALLS OR REALLY ANY KIND OF ENTRY FEATURE LANDSCAPE PROJECTS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT, BUT, UH, SCREENING WALLS WHO WAS MENTIONED OR ELIGIBLE FOR THAT PROGRAM, IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY PROGRAM.

IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S NOT A MATCHING PROGRAM.

UM, BUT THAT, UM, BUT THAT, THAT WAS NO ONE ELSE.

A QUESTION I HAD AND THE RESPONSE TO PROCEED WAS NO IT'S ON A MATCHING PROGRAM.

UM, AND THEN THEY, UH, THE CITY OF RICHARDSON HAD ANOTHER BOND PROGRAM IN 2010 AND THERE WAS ANOTHER TWO, 1 MILLION, UM, FOR, UM, BY THE WAY, IT'S A COMPETITIVE PROCESS SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED THAT, THAT THIS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS, IT'S A COMPETITIVE PROCESS THAT YOU HAVE TO APPLY FOR IT, BUT THE MONEY IS THERE.

UM, FOR HOS, WHETHER IT'S SCREEN WALLS, ENTRY FEATURES, UH, LANDSCAPE IMPROVEMENTS, UM, THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT THAT WAS BACK IN 2006 AND THEN 2010, UM, SINCE 2013, THE CITY OF RICHARDSON HAS A PROGRAM, A GENERAL FUND PROGRAM FOR FUNDING AND WASHING OF, UM, EXISTING SCREEN WALLS.

UH, SOUNDS LIKE THIS IS JUST CITY WALLS ONLY, UM, STARTED OFF AS A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR AND THEIR BUDGET, BUT, UM, THEY GOT, WE'RE ABLE TO DO A LOT WITH THAT.

AND NOW IT'S JUST 40,000, UH, PER YEAR AGAIN FOR, UM, KIND OF POWER WASHING AND PAINTING OF, UH, OF CITY CITY OWNED AND MAINTAINED WALLS.

UM, OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S CITY OWNED WALL, THE CITY, THE STREETS DEPARTMENT SPECIFICALLY WILL GO OUT AND REPAIR IT AS NEEDED.

UM, OTHERWISE THE CITY STAFF DIDN'T EXPRESS TOO MUCH CONCERNS ABOUT THE ONES THAT GOT, UM, AND THEN OTHER THAN THE PROGRAM I MENTIONED EARLIER, THEY DO HOLD HOA, UH, RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR, UH, THEIR WALLS.

UM, SO THAT JUST BECOMES A CODE

[00:25:01]

COMPLIANCE ISSUE IF, UH, IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF THAT, THAT A COMPETITIVE PROGRAM I MENTIONED EARLIER.

UM, AND YEAH, I THINK THAT THOSE ARE KIND OF THE MAIN HIGHLIGHTS I'VE GOT.

UM, SO TALKING TO YOU, CAN YOU FILL IN A LITTLE MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE COMPETITIVE PROCESS WHAT'S INVOLVED THERE AND WHAT DO THE WAYS HAVE TO PROVIDE TO RECEIVE FUNDING? I DIDN'T GET MUCH MORE DETAILED THAN, THAN THAT.

I SEE MR. BALLINGER IS ON THIS COLUMN.

IF HE KNOWS MUCH MORE ABOUT IT, THEY, THEY DO AN, A CALL FOR PROJECTS.

UH, AND SO IT, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A MANDATORY ASSOCIATION.

IT'S ANY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION CAN, UM, UM, FILL OUT THE APPLICATION FORM AND PROPOSE A PROJECT, AND THEN STAFF RESEARCHES THE COSTS BEHIND MAKING THAT PROJECT HAPPEN.

AND CITY COUNCIL DECIDES, WHICH WANTS TO FUND ARE THEY REQUIRED TO BE MATCHING FUNDS FOR THAT? OR IS IT STRICTLY KIND OF A GRANT PROCESS, JUST A GRANT.

OKAY.

AND THAT SAME POT OF MONEY THAT THEY USE FOR SCREENING WALLS.

THEY ALSO USE FOR BRIDGES.

I THINK WHAT I'VE SEEN FROM WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M TOLD BRIDGES ACTUALLY TAKES UP MORE OF THAT BOND FUNDING THEN, UM, THAN SCREENING WALLS DO.

AND ENTRYWAY FEATURES ARE ALSO COVERED.

OKAY.

SEEMED FROM THAT SPREADSHEET THAT MR. GARRETT PROVIDED THERE'S VERY FEW CITY OWNED, LOST THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

IT LOOKS LIKE THE VAST MAJORITY 90% OR MORE WERE PRIVATELY OWNED OR POSSIBLY PRIVATELY OWNED.

IF A DETERMINATION COULD BE MADE.

I KNOW IN MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, IT WAS MARKED DOWN AS POSSIBLY PRIVATELY OWNED AND THEY WERE ACTUALLY ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.

SO I WOULD PUT THAT IN A PRIVATE CATEGORY.

SO THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS, THEY HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED OR ANY THOUGHTS I'M SCREENING WALLS.

YEAH, I COULD, I COULD SEE THAT THE COMPETITIVE NATURE, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF HOS AND, UM, I GUESS THE CRITERIA YOU USE TO, TO GRANT THOSE AWARDS WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY, I THINK IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF ENERGY, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF A METRIC WE'RE GOING TO USE IN ORDER TO GRADE THOSE AND THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU DON'T START GETTING SOME OF THIS TRIBAL, UM, SOME OF THESE TRIBAL ISSUES GOING ON, WHERE AM I, YOU KNOW, WE WE'VE DONE COUNCIL DISTRICT ONE AND ONE GETS EVERYTHING AND YADA YADA, YADA, THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY CONCERN.

UH, BUT AGAIN, I'M PRETTY SURE WE COULD PROBABLY PUT FOR SOME KIND OF A PROCESS WHEREBY WE COULD MAKE SURE THAT, UH, EVENLY DISTRIBUTED COUNSELOR, DO YOU HAVE ANY, YEAH, I AGREE TO THEM.

IT SEEMS LIKE THE PATH THAT RICHARDSON'S TAKING IS LARGELY THROUGH SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE IN NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY, WHERE THERE'S AN EVALUATION OF PROJECTS, BUT, UM, THE NEXT MECHANISM WOULD BE A FUNDING SOURCE AND THAT PERHAPS IF THERE'S AN X BOND PROGRAM IN THE FUTURE, MAYBE THAT COULD BE AN ITEM THAT WILL BE CONSIDERED.

BUT AS OF NOW, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S REALLY NO MECHANISM THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY FOR FUNDING THESE NEW TYPE OF WALL.

I MEAN, WE POSSIBLY DO AN ENTRYWAY TYPE PROJECT WITH, UH, WITH SOME OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY BUTTONY, BUT AS FAR AS SCREENING WALLS THEMSELVES, UH, MR. BALLINGER, IS THAT, WOULD THAT BE AN ELIGIBLE ITEM UNDER THE CURRENT REGULATIONS? THE CURRENT GUIDELINES, WHICH COUNCIL PASSED IN 2015, DO NOT ALLOW SCREENING RULES AS AN ELIGIBLE ACTIVITY.

UM, BUT THOSE ARE COUNCIL'S GUIDELINES, SO WHATEVER, WHATEVER COUNCIL WANTS TO ALLOW.

SURE.

SO IF WE WANTED TO CHANGE THAT, WE'D PROBABLY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION BACK TO COUNCIL.

IF WE WANTED TO MODIFY THAT TO ALLOW FOR PRINTING SHOOTING WALLS, BUT BEING ON MY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION BEFORE I WAS ON COUNCIL AND HAVING FREQUENT VOTERS COLLIDE WITH OUR WALLS SURROUNDING OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, I KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE IT CAN BE.

SO IT WOULD BE A QUITE AN EXPENSE THAT I IMAGINE QUITE A DRAIN TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY SORT OF ALLOW THAT.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER THERE.

SO, AND THEN THAT SHE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD START TO BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH A MATCH.

THAT'S TRUE TOO.

SO WHAT ARE OUR THOUGHTS THEN? SHOULD WE, UH, MAKE IT MAKE FUNDING FOR WALLS AVAILABLE TO THE COUNCIL OR LEAVE IT, IT, EXCUSE ME, MAKE THAT CHANGE FROM APRIL VITALY SUGGESTS THE COUNCIL OR LEAVE IT IN ITS CURRENT FORM.

MY THOUGHTS ARE TO LEAVE IT IN ITS CURRENT FORM.

AND MAYBE PERHAPS IF THERE'S A FUTURE FUTURE FUNDING MECHANISM IN A FUTURE BOND PROPOSAL, THEN THAT WOULD BE A NINE FOR CONSIDERATION.

BUT AT THIS TIME, UM, REALLY, I DON'T THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE ANY CHANGE IN POLICY GIVEN THE LARGE NUMBER THAT ARE PRIVATELY OWNED.

I'LL MAKE A MOTION AND MOTION TO WHAT SIR DO.

KEEP IT JUST THE WAY IT IS REMAIN HIS CURRENT FORM.

SURE.

SECOND,

[00:30:01]

SECOND.

ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.

ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

VERY GOOD.

WELL, THAT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY AND THEN WE'LL JUST KEEP IT AS IT IS.

WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR IT.

AND IF THERE'S ANY FUTURE FUNDING OR ANY CHANGES THAT WE'D LIKE TO MAKE IN THE FUTURE, WE CAN REVISIT THIS.

SO, UM, THAT WAS OUR LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA AS THERE'S ANY OTHER, NO ITEMS OF FORCE, THEN WE ARE ADJOURNED.

I'LL SEE YOU EVERYONE AT SIX, O'CLOCK HAVE A SAFE TRIP.

ALL RIGHT.

THANKS GUYS.

BYE-BYE OKAY.

WOULD YOU SAY MR. MCNEIL.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Speech-to-Text.