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[00:00:01]

ALL RIGHT.

IT'S FOUR O'CLOCK.

SO WE'LL BRING THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE TO ORDER A WELCOME TO NEW MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, COUNCIL, EDDIE MORRIS, AND COUNCILMAN.

BEST WELCOME.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE FOR THE COMMITTEE.

UM, FIRST ITEM WE'LL TAKE CARE OF IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE MAY 17TH MEETING, LOOKING FOR A MOTION FOR APPROVAL FOR THAT.

NEITHER ONE WERE HERE NOW THEY CAN STILL MOVE TO APPROVE.

I AM MOVED TO APPROVE SECOND, ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

THE MINUTES FROM THE MAY 17TH, 2021 MEETING ARE APPROVED AND WE'LL MOVE TO THE FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA.

I IMAGINE THIS WILL BE A LENGTHY ONE AND MAY TAKE MORE THAN ONE MEETING, BUT WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE IT.

AND IT IS THE DOWNTOWN AREA ZONING AND PARKING REQUIREMENTS PRESENTATION.

SO MR. THAT'S AFTERNOON COMMITTEE MEMBERS, UM, THIS ITEM OF COURSE, WAS, UH, SENT TO COMMITTEE BY, UH, COUNCIL A LITTLE WHILE BACK, AND WE WANTED TO BRING THIS TO YOU TODAY.

UM, WE ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT BOTH, UH, DOWNTOWN LAND USES AND PARKING AS THE, TO, UM, DIRECTLY RELATE TO ONE ANOTHER AS, UH, AS WE'LL KIND OF GET TO IN THE PRESENTATION.

UM, BEAR WITH US, THERE WAS GOING TO BE A TAG TEAM EFFORT, UH, JUDD AND LATITIA, UNFORTUNATELY ARE BOTH SICK TODAY, BUT, UM, BUT JIM AND I, AND, AND BRIAN, BETWEEN THE THREE OF US, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO, UM, HOPEFULLY ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, BUT, UM, I'LL JUST JUMP RIGHT INTO THE PRESENTATION.

SO, UM, SO REALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS PRESENTATION, THERE'S REALLY THREE ZONE OPTIONS.

I'VE GOT A MAP HERE ON THE NEXT SLIDE, BUT ON WHICH AREA TO FOCUS ON, UM, THERE'S THE IMMEDIATE DOWNTOWN SQUARE AREA, THERE'S THIS RETAIL CONSTRUCTION GRADE AREA, WHICH I'LL EXPLAIN.

AND THEN THERE'S THE OVERALL DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUBDISTRICT, WHICH IS SHOWN ON THE ZONING MAP.

I'LL GO AHEAD AND JUMP TO THE MAP HERE.

UM, SO THE I'LL KIND OF START WITH THE LARGER AREA.

THIS, UH, AREA OUTLINED IN RED IS THE, UH, CURRENT DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUB-DISTRICT, IT'S A, BASICALLY A ZONING DISTRICT WITHIN THE OVERALL DOWNTOWN AREA.

IT INCLUDES THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE AREA, AS WELL AS THE, UH, CITY HALL GRANDVILLE CENTER, UM, FIFTH STREET CROSSING, ET CETERA, LIBRARY, UM, REALLY GOING DOWN TO, UM, AVENUE FROM AVENUE A TO WALNUT STREET, THE WESTERN BOUNDARIES, GLEN BROOK DRIVE, AND THE EASTERN BOUNDARY IS THE RAILROAD.

UM, IT OUTLINED IN, UM, REALLY KIND OF THIS YELLOW HERE ON THE DOWNTOWN ZONING MAP.

THERE'S AN AREA CALLED REQUIRED RETAIL CONSTRUCTION GRADE.

SO REALLY ANY OF THESE PROPERTIES THAT FRONT, THIS YELLOW AREA ALONG THE STREETS, UM, AND GRANTED WHAT'S EXISTING IS, IS GRANDFATHERED.

BUT, UM, IF NEW CONSTRUCTION WERE TO TAKE PLACE, THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO, UM, PROVIDE A CERTAIN MINIMUM HEIGHT LEVEL TO ACCOMMODATE, UH, AT GRADE, UH, RETAIL CONSTRUCTION OR RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL USES.

SO YOU CAN SEE IT'S REALLY THESE, UM, FRONTAGES ALONG MAIN STREET BETWEEN BROOK AND FIFTH STREET.

UM, THESE, UH, AREAS ALONG THE BLOCKS OF, UM, SEVENTH STREET AND SIXTH STREET AND ALONG, UM, STATE STREET BETWEEN GLENBROOK AND FIFTH STREET.

UM, SO THAT THAT'S ANOTHER ZONE OPTION TO KIND OF FOCUS IN ON AND THEN OUTLINED IN GREEN IS, UM, THE IMMEDIATE DOWNTOWN SQUARE AREA.

UM, FOR THIS SAKE, REALLY JUST HIGHLIGHTED THE, UH, PROPERTIES WHO HAVE DIRECT FRONTAGE IS ON THE STREETS THAT, UM, HAVE THAT DIRECT FRONTAGE ON THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE.

OF COURSE, IN THESE ZONE OPTIONS, WE COULD KIND OF BLEND SOME OF THEM, BUT THAT'S JUST KIND OF SOME OF THE DIFFERENT SCALES ON WHICH TO FOCUS ON, UM, REGARDING LAND USE AND PARKING.

SO I'LL GO THROUGH, UM, WE'LL START WITH THE LAND USES OR THE LAND USE CONVERSATION.

AND THEN WE'LL GO TO PARKING A LITTLE LATER, UM, TO GO AHEAD AND GO WITH LAND USES.

UM, WE, BASED ON SOME, UH, CONVERSATIONS THAT WE'VE BEEN HEARING AND THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING INTERNALLY, UM, WE WILL KIND OF THROW OUT THERE AND SUGGEST, UM, KIND OF LIMITING THE USES, UM, IN THE CORE DOWNTOWN AREAS WE COULD CALL IT, UH, DEPENDING ON THE ZONE OPTIONS TO USES THAT REALLY, UM, FOSTER A, UM, UH, AN SDN ENVIRONMENT THAT ARE KIND OF PEDESTRIAN GENERATORS, IF YOU WILL, AND FOSTER AN ACTIVE DOWNTOWN.

SO I'M STARTING WITH, UM, THE LIST OF USES THAT, UM, ARE CURRENTLY ALLOWED.

AND THIS IS IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUB-DISTRICTS THAT GREATER AREA OUTLINED IN RED, UM, ON THE LEFT COLUMN ARE THOSE THAT ARE ALLOWED CURRENTLY ALLOWED IN ON THE RIGHT, OUR SUGGESTED, ALLOWED, USES.

UH, THESE SHOULD ALL MATCH UP.

I'M KIND OF GOING WITH STARTING WITH THE USES THAT MATCH UP WITH WHAT, UH, WHAT'S ALREADY ALLOWED.

YOU CAN SEE RETAIL RESTAURANT FITNESS, PERFORMING ART STUDIO, PERSONAL SERVICES, CONVENIENCE STORE PHARMACY WITHOUT A DRIVE THROUGH, UM, ANTIQUE SHOPS, INDOORS ONLY RETAIL BAKERIES, UM, INDOOR COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT, ADORES, CULTURAL FACILITIES, LIVE WORK UNITS, UH, FURNITURE, SALES

[00:05:01]

AND RENTAL, UH, USED GOODS AND RETAIL SALES AND DOORS ONLY A WALKUP SERVICES, AS WELL AS WALK-UP ATM'S.

UM, BY THE WAY, THESE ARE, UH, ALLOWED BY RIGHT.

AND LESS SPECIFICALLY NOTED THAT IT'S BY SUP ONLY, UM, A FEW ADDITIONAL USES HERE.

UM, THEN WE KIND OF GET TO SOME USES, UH, SUCH AS SMALL-SCALE THEATER, WHICH WE DO HAVE DOWNTOWN.

THERE'S AN ASTERIX BY THAT, WE'LL EXPLAIN, UM, WHAT THAT MEANS HERE IN A FEW SLIDES, UH, SHORTLY, UH, MULTIFAMILY IS ALLOWED.

WE'RE SUGGESTING, UM, KIND OF KEEPING THAT GIVEN SOME OF THE, UM, EXISTING KIND OF URBAN STYLE MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE DO HAVE DOWNTOWN, UM, BED AND BREAKFAST ARE CURRENTLY ALLOWED BY SUP ONLY WE WOULD SUGGEST, UH, KEEPING THAT, UM, AGAIN, SOME ADDITIONAL USES HERE, TATTOO BODY, BODY SHOPS, BREWERIES WINERIES, UM, OUTDOOR FARMER'S MARKETS.

THOSE ARE ALL CURRENTLY ALLOWED BY STP.

WE SUGGEST THAT, UM, ONE, I GUESS THE ONLY DISCREPANCY HERE BESIDES THE SMALL-SCALE THEATER WOULD BE, UM, HOTEL MOTEL, UM, THOSE ARE CURRENTLY ALLOWED BY, RIGHT.

WE WOULD SUGGEST, UM, PERHAPS BY SUP ONLY PARTLY GIVEN SOME OF THE PARKING CONCERNS, UM, AND SUGGESTING THAT THAT BE FULL SERVICE AND LIMITED SERVICE BY SUP ONLY CURRENTLY THAT INCLUDES FULL SERVICE, LIMITED SERVICE AND EXTENDED STAY.

UM, AND THEN THIS IS WHERE WE GET INTO, UM, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THE SUGGESTED ALLOWED USES.

AND, AND THEN THE REST OF THIS USE FOR THE MOST PART IS, UM, THESE ARE USES THAT ARE CURRENTLY ALLOWED, UM, IN THE GDC AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUBDISTRICT.

UM, SO YOU CAN SEE SOME ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL USES.

UH, SOME OF THESE REALLY ARE MORE KIND OF FOR MAKE MORE SENSE FOR SINGLE FAMILY WHERE YOU HAVE A YARD, PERHAPS A BACKYARD.

UM, OF COURSE YOU CAN SEE TOWNHOUSES HERE, UM, GENERAL OFFICE MEDICAL DENTAL OFFICE, UM, UH, WHEN, AS I READ THROUGH ALL THESE USES, BUT YOU CAN CERTAINLY STOP ME.

I CAN RETURN IT TO YOU IF YOU'D LIKE, AND HERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL COMMERCIAL USES AND, UH, EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONAL USES HERE.

UH, YOU DO SEE A FEW ASTERISKS OR ASTRO HERE NEXT TO CHURCH OR PLACE OF WORSHIP, UH, SOCIAL SERVICE FACILITIES AND AGENCIES, AND SIT AT CLUBS AND FRATERNAL LODGES.

UM, AND IF YOU REMEMBER A COUPLE OF SLIDES BACK, IT WAS A THEATERS.

THESE ARE THE COMMON THEME HERE IS THESE ARE ASSEMBLY TYPE USES.

UH, MR. ENGLAND, WE'LL KIND OF GO INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE IN A COUPLE OF SLIDES, BUT, UH, WE'LL COME BACK TO THESE, UM, THE ASTRO SEASON AND, UM, AND THE COMMITTEE CAN KIND OF WEIGH IN ON HOW WE WANT TO HANDLE THAT.

AND AGAIN, JUST KIND OF GOING THROUGH THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE COLUMN, THESE ARE CURRENTLY ALLOWED USES IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUB DISTRICT.

AND AGAIN, I CAN COME BACK TO ANY OF THESE IF YOU'D, IF YOU'D LIKE.

UM, SO ASSEMBLY IS, AS I JUST MENTIONED, THAT INCLUDES CHURCHES, UH, SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCIES, THEATERS, AND CIVIC CLUBS AND FRATERNAL LODGES.

UM, THERE'S A COUPLE OF OPTIONS ON HOW WE WANT TO HANDLE THEM, WHETHER IT'S TO, UM, REMOVE THEM ALTOGETHER AS ALLOWED USES AND THE CORE AREA OF THE DOWNTOWN, OR PERHAPS ALLOWING BY SUP, UM, PERHAPS WITH THE ONSITE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, UM, UH, STAYING PUT, AND AGAIN, WE'LL KIND OF DISCUSS PARKING A LITTLE BIT MORE HERE IN A FEW SLIDES, BUT, UM, UH, BRIAN, DO YOU WANT TO KIND OF WEIGH IN ON THE THOUGHT BEHIND THIS? UM, AS MOST OF YOU ALL PROBABLY REMEMBER, UM, WELL THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON AS FAR AS HOW WE REGULATE CHURCHES IN PLACES OF WORSHIP OF THIS LIST.

THAT'S REALLY FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE.

MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS BECAUSE OF OUR LOOP, OF COURSE, THE FEDERAL LAW IN THE STATE COROLLARY LAW THAT, UM, UM, IS THERE TO PROTECT, UM, UM, PLACES OF WORSHIP, UM, CHURCHES, UM, FROM ANY, ANY TYPE OF, AND UNDER BOTH FEDERAL AND STATE LAW, WE HAVE TO TREAT CHURCHES THE SAME AS WE WOULD, ANY OTHER CIVIL CIVIC ORGANIZATION, FRATERNAL LODGE, UM, COMMUNITY, UM, UM, ORGANISM.

THOSE ARE THAT NATURE.

AND THERE'S SOME CASES OUT THERE WHERE YOU SEE CITIES WHERE CITIES HAVE GOTTEN IN TROUBLE, WHERE THEY, THE COURT HAS FOUND WELL, YOU'RE TREATING THESE A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY, AND HERE'S WHY, AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT GET CAUGHT UP IN ALL THAT ARE PLACES LIKE THEATERS.

AND SO WE HAVE THE PLAZA THEATER, WE ALSO HAVE CITY HALL WHO WOULD THAT HA THAT IS A PLACE OF AN ASSEMBLY.

UM, IT'S FOR POLITICAL MATTERS, BUT IT IS A PLACE FOR THE PUBLIC TO COME IN AND ASSEMBLE.

AND SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TREATING, UM, ALL THESE USES THE SAME ON EQUAL TERMS AS RELIGIOUS USES.

UM, WE'VE NEVER IN THE, IN THIS CITY'S HISTORY, WE'VE NEVER REALLY REGULATED WHERE CHURCHES GO AND IT'S CONSTANT PROBLEMS. UM, UM, UH, WHEN CHURCHES IS DECIDE TO GO INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THERE'S NOT PROPER PARKING, THEY'RE NOT, THERE'S NOT PROPER, UM, ACCESS, UM, IT'S, UM, UM, SOME PROBLEMS IN NEIGHBORHOODS FOR US, BUT WE'VE ALWAYS

[00:10:01]

HAD THIS IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, TO BE SAFE.

SO WE'RE NOT EVEN GETTING CLOSE TO THE LINE, CROSSING THE LINE, RIGHT.

WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO REGULATE IT.

UM, UM, BUT WE DO FEEL LIKE WE CAN REGULATE IT AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THEM.

AND SO THAT DAY OF THIS PARTICULAR STRUCTURE AND THE TWO OPTIONS THAT ARE LISTED HERE, THERE ARE REALLY TWO THINGS THAT WE COULD DO FOR THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

AND WHEN WE'RE THINKING OF DOWNTOWN, YOU CAN THINK OF IT.

IF YOU GO BACK TO THAT MAP AS THE DOWNTOWN AREA, WE HAVE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THEN YOU CAN EVEN NARROW THAT AND MAKE A SUBDISTRICT.

AND THAT'S PROBABLY B W WHAT WOULD BE BEST IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WE HAD SOME TYPE OF SUB DISTRICT, AND YOU PICK THE BOUNDARIES, MARK THE BOUNDARIES.

UM, WE'LL OBVIOUSLY GIVE RECOMMENDATION ON WHERE HE THINKS THE BOUNDARIES MAY BE, AND THEY CAN GET INPUT FROM THE PUBLIC AND WHERE THEY THINK THOSE BOUNDARIES MAY NEED TO BE.

UM, UM, BUT IN DOING THAT, UM, YOU WOULD CREATE A NEW LAND USE JUST FOR THAT DISTRICT, JUST FOR THAT NEW SUBDISTRICT.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING LIKE CIVIC SLASH COMMUNITY SLASH CULTURAL ASSEMBLY HALLS.

AND THAT WOULD CAPTURE EVERYTHING FROM, UM, SOCIAL SERVICES, CIVIC CLUBS, RECEPTION FACILITIES, MEETING HALLS, RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS, AND FRATERNAL LODGES.

AND SO IT CAPTURES QUITE A BIT.

UM, THE SECOND THING YOU COULD DO THE SECOND STEP WOULD BE TO EXCLUDE, EXCLUDE ASSEMBLY HALLS FROM THE DOWNTOWN SUBDISTRICT, UM, AND MAKE CURRENT ASSEMBLY HALLS.

NON-CONFORMING, THAT'S ONE OPTION.

AND SO YOU HAVE YOU JUST FLAT OUT SAY, THESE AREN'T ALLOWED AS A USE DOWNTOWN.

IF YOU'RE THERE ALREADY, YOU'RE NONCONFORMING, YOU'RE LAWFULLY NON-CONFORMING, AND YOU CAN STAY, UH, BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO EXPAND.

UM, AND ONCE YOU ABANDON THAT USE FOR MORE THAN SIX MONTHS, THEN THAT USE IS GOING TO GO AWAY.

AND SO OVER TIME, THE IDEA OF BEING LIKE ALL OTHER NONCONFORMING CASES OVER TIME, UM, THOSE TYPES OF USES GO AWAY ON THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE.

THE SECOND OPTION IS A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED, UM, BUT IT DOES PROVIDE SOME PROTECTIONS THAT THE FIRST ONE DOESN'T, UM, IT IS APPLE GO, COULD GO OUT AND TAKE A, UM, CURRENT INVENTORY OF ASSEMBLY USES IN THAT DOWNTOWN SUBDISTRICT.

AND BASICALLY WHAT I MEAN ABOUT THAT INVENTORY COULD BE BASED ON OCCUPANCY LIMITS FOR ASSEMBLY SPACES THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING USED.

UM, AND THEN YOU, THEY IDENTIFY THE AGGREGATE AMOUNT OF OCCUPANCY ASSEMBLY SPACE FOR THE DOWNTOWN SUBDISTRICT AND SAY, OKAY, WE THINK THAT THE MAXIMUM IN AGGREGATE, THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT IS 500 SPACES OR 600, AND WE'RE CURRENTLY HAVE 600 ON THE BOOKS.

WE HAVE 600 OF THESE, UM, UM, ASSEMBLY SPACES ON THE BOOKS, MEANING OCCUPANCY LIMITS.

AND THEN, UM, ONCE THAT MAXIMUM ACCURATE AMOUNT IS SET FOR THE WHOLE DISTRICT, THE WHOLE SUB DISTRICT, UM, YOU CAN THEN ALLOW ASSEMBLY HALLS BY SUP, BUT THE SUP WOULD BE CONDITIONED UPON NUMBER ONE, A NEW PROPOSED ASSEMBLY HALL USE WOULD NOT EXCEED THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED ASSEMBLY HALL SPACE IN AGGREGATE FOR THE DISTRICT.

AND SO IF YOUR MAXIMUM OUT IS SAY 800 IN AGGREGATE FOR THE DISTRICT OF A NEW ONE COMES IN AND APPLIES, WE'LL HAVE THE, WE'LL HAVE THE CURRENT INVENTORY AND SAY, OKAY, WE'RE CURRENTLY AT 720.

SO WHATEVER YEARS YOU'RE PROPOSING CAN HAVE MORE THAN 80 SPACES.

AND SO AT THAT POINT, AS FAR AS OCCUPANT GO, IF IT HAS MORE THAN THAT, THEN YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR AN SVP.

SO THEREFORE YOU WOULDN'T BE ELIGIBLE.

THE EXCEPTION OF THAT IS THE SUP COULD ALSO HAVE A, UM, CONDITION THAT SAYS, WELL, IF YOU DO HAVE A NEW PROPOSED USE AND YOU WOULD EXCEED THE AGGREGATE AMOUNT, THEN YOU COULD BUILD, UH, ON-SITE PARKING.

AND, UM, IT WOULD MEET WHATEVER PARKING RATIO THAT WOULD BE BEST FOR THAT PARTICULAR USE.

AND IT WOULD BE THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD, WHATEVER FOR ASSEMBLY HALLS, WE WOULD COME UP WITH BASICALLY A NEW PARKING RATIO FOR THE DOWNTOWN.

AND SO, UM, THAT'S KIND OF THE TWO OPTIONS.

UM, THE CLEANEST OPTION IS OBVIOUSLY DOING THE, UM, UH, NON-CONFORMING AND JUST SAYING IT'S NOT ALLOWED TO USE, UM, IT HAS ITS DOWNSIDES.

OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE WON'T BE ABLE TO EXPAND PEOPLE.

UM, UM, UH, THERE MIGHT BE SOME, THERE MIGHT BE SOME FINANCING ISSUES FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE CURRENTLY DOWN THERE AND THEY WANT TO JUST NOT EVEN EXPAND, BUT THEY WANT TO IMPROVE.

THEY WANT TO GO GET A LOAN.

THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET A LOAN FROM A LENDER TO IMPROVE CURRENT SPACE.

IF THEY'RE NON-CONFORMING.

UM, THE SECOND ONE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, ADMINISTRATIVELY, UM, HEAVY HANDED AS FAR AS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO TO KEEP TRACK, BUT IT'S, UM, UM, IT WOULD AVOID THE PROBLEM OF THE NON NEGOTIABLE THAT GOES ALONG WITH NON-CONFORMING USES.

THANK YOU.

AND CONTINUING ON HERE.

UM, AND I'VE GOT A MAP AS WELL, KIND OF SHOWING CURRENT USES, BUT, UM, THIS WAS JUST A, UH, OBSERVATION OF SOME ACTUAL EXISTING LEGAL, NONCONFORMING GROUND LEVEL, UH, OR, UH, JUST USES IN GENERAL AND DOWNTOWN HISTORIC THAT WOULD BECOME LEGAL NONCONFORMING WITH THIS CHANGE.

UM, THESE ARE AT LEAST

[00:15:01]

JUST BASED ON OBSERVATION.

THERE COULD BE MORE, BUT, UM, BUT FEW OFFICE USES, UM, UM, A FEW ASSEMBLY USES AS MR. ENGLAND, UM, MENTIONED HERE CHURCHES IN THE COURSE OF THE THEATER, UH, AND A FINANCIAL FINANCIAL INSTITUTION AND AWARE OF ONE BANK, UM, ALONG THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE.

UM, AND OF COURSE JUST NOTED HERE.

SEVERAL OTHER EXISTING USES ARE, ARE ALREADY LEGAL NON-CONFORMING.

SO FOR INSTANCE, UM, I'LL KIND OF JUMP TO THE MAP THERE'S, UM, GAS STATION WITH THE FUEL PUMPS.

THERE'S A, UM, A COUPLE OF AUTO REPAIR BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN, UM, UH, THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT, UH, THIS IS A PRETTY DETAILED MAP, BUT, UH, BUT THIS SHOWS, WE KIND OF DID AN INVENTORY OF THE DOWNTOWN AS FAR AS CURRENT LAND USES, AND THAT KIND OF HELPED US IDENTIFY, UM, MAYBE SOME USES THAT WERE EITHER ALREADY NONCONFORMING OR MAY BECOME NON-CONFORMING, UM, DEPENDING ON HOW WE WANT TO NARROW DOWN THE USES.

SO GOOD.

AND, UH, JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND, WON'T SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON THIS.

UM, BUT, UH, THERE WAS A DOWNTOWN PARKING STUDY.

UM, I WASN'T REAL, DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THIS LATICIA.

WE'RE GOING TO COVER THESE SLIDES, BUT, UM, BUT I'LL, UH, UH, KIND OF GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF, UM, OF OUR UNDERSTANDING HERE.

UM, SO THIS WAS DONE IN 2018, THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT THE PARKING SUPPLY PROBLEM, ESPECIALLY AROUND THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE.

UM, SO PARKING STUDY WAS PERFORMED, UM, ON A TYPICAL AND THE SAMPLE STUDY HERE WAS THURSDAY, FRIDAY AND SATURDAY.

THE THOUGHT WAS, THOSE ARE PROBABLY THE BUSIEST DAYS OF THE WEEK.

UM, AND SO, UH, KIND OF JUMPED TO THE NEXT SLIDE HERE.

SO TAKING A FRIDAY FOR INSTANCE, BUT THIS WAS GENERALLY, UM, TRUE FOR THURSDAY, FRIDAY AND SATURDAY, THE, UH, PEAK HOUR, UH, WAS, WAS ESPECIALLY HIGH.

UM, AND THE THRESHOLD, THE CAPACITY THRESHOLD WAS EXCEEDED, ESPECIALLY AROUND THE LUNCH HOUR.

UM, 11:00 AM TO 1:00 PM EACH DAY WAS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT ON THE EXACT PEAK HOURS.

UM, BUT THE LUNCH HOUR REALLY, UH, PICKED UP AND THAT'S WHERE, UM, PARKING WAS ESPECIALLY TIGHT.

UM, AND AROUND THE SQUARE AREA, UM, PICKED UP A LITTLE IN THE EVENING AS WELL, BUT, UM, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE 88%, 85% ADA, 86% OF CAPACITY, UM, UH, DURING SOME OF THE PEAK HOURS THERE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

AND, UM, ONE OF THE FINDINGS WAS THAT THE AVERAGE LENGTH OF STAY AND THESE PARKING SPACES WAS FAIRLY LIMITED AS, UH, MOST, UH, VEHICLES STAYED BETWEEN ZERO AND TWO HOURS.

UM, IT DROPPED OFF SIGNIFICANTLY AFTER THAT.

AND THAT WAS GENERALLY TRUE FOR ALL THREE DAYS, THURSDAY, FRIDAY, AND SATURDAY.

SO SOME OF THE FINDINGS AND, AND, UH, UH, OPTIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT, UM, ON STREET PARKING NEAR THE SQUARE EXCEEDS EFFECTIVE CAPACITY THRESHOLD DURING PEAK TIMES, UM, GENERALLY BETWEEN THE RANGE OF 12 TO 4:00 PM.

UH, BUT THERE WAS AVAILABLE PARKING WITHIN 500 FOOT, UH, 500 FEET OF WALKING DISTANCE IN MOST DIRECTIONS.

SO, UH, THERE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PARKING ALWAYS RIGHT THERE WHERE YOU NEEDED IT OR DESIRED, I SHOULD SAY, BUT THERE WAS, UM, GENERALLY PARKING STILL AVAILABLE.

UM, JUST WITH A LITTLE BIT OF A WALK, MAYBE A BLOCK OR TWO, UM, PERMIT SPACES OF PARKING GARAGES UNDER UTILIZED DURING THE DAY, UM, VEHICLES IN PUBLIC AREAS OF PARKING GARAGES STAY LONGER THAN THE THREE HOUR TIME LIMITS.

AND THE FINAL FINDING WAS THAT THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EFFECTIVE PARKING MANAGEMENT PRACTICES RESULTING IN MORE EFFICIENT USE OF PARKING RESOURCES.

AND SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT WERE, UM, PROVIDING PARKING, WAYFINDING SIGNAGE.

UM, THIS, UH, PROJECT IS CURRENTLY UNDERWAY AND WE'LL IDENTIFY PUBLIC PARKING IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE CENTRAL LIBRARY OF GRANDVILLE ARTS CENTER AND THE SENIOR CENTER WILL, UM, HAVE SIGNAGE AS PUBLIC PARKING LOTS, UM, REDUCTION OF WIDE ROADS TO TWO LANE AND ADDITIONAL, UM, THE OPPORTUNITY FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES BY, UM, RE STRIPING SOME PAVEMENT.

UM, THERE WERE SOME ADDITIONAL, UM, RE STRIPING ALONG AVENUE, A TO ADD MORE ON-STREET PARKING THERE, UM, AND THEN TO PROVIDE PEDESTRIAN PATHS AND AMENITIES FROM PARKING AREAS TO THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE.

UM, MS. LETICIA NOTED IN HER NOTES HERE.

THIS PROJECT IS APPROACHING FINAL DESIGN AND ENCOMPASSED, UH, BY THE BROADER STREETSCAPES ENHANCEMENT ENHANCEMENTS AND CONJUNCTION WITH THE SQUARE REDESIGN, AND THEN FINALLY TO CONSIDER PURCHASING OR LEASING PROPERTY FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING FOR FUTURE USE AND, UM, UH, ENFORCING A LITTLE TIGHTER THE THREE HOUR PARKING LIMITS.

AND, UH, AS FAR AS HOW WE HANDLE CURRENTLY HANDLE, UH, PARKING IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, OF COURSE THE PARKING RATIOS ARE IDENTIFIED IN CHAPTER SEVEN AND THE GDCS LAND USE MATRIX, BUT, UM, I'LL KIND OF HAND IT OVER TO MR. OLC HERE TO KIND OF EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THE CITY CURRENTLY HANDLES, UM, PARKING FOR NEW BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN CURRENTLY.

UM, I'M SORRY.

UH, CURRENTLY WITH THE PARKING, UH, IN THE DOWNTOWN, SPECIFICALLY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA,

[00:20:01]

UH, THE GDC BASICALLY SAYS ANY EXPANSION THAT YOU DO, YOU SHOULD COME UP WITH THAT REQUIRED PARKING FOR THE EXPANSION.

SO WE WENT THROUGH THE DOWNTOWN AREA AND DETERMINE WHAT THE EXISTING USES WERE AND THE ESTABLISHED PARKING.

SO IF SOMEBODY CAME IN AND THEY SAID, OKAY, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA TAKE WHAT WAS A STORE AND MAKE IT A RESTAURANT.

AND MY PARKING DEMAND WENT UP.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES.

NOW, IF YOU HAD THE EXACT SAME PARKING RATIO FOR THE USE THAT YOU HAD, THEN THAT NON-CONFORMING USE, OR THAT NON-CONFORMING PARKING, JUST CONTINUE DOWN WITH THAT USE.

SO WE WOULD GO THROUGH AND CALCULATE THOSE AS EACH ONE WOULD COME IN AND REQUIRE THEM TO PROVIDE US PARKING SOMETIME THEY COULD PROVIDE THEM ONSITE.

SOMETIME THEY, A LOT OF TIMES THEY HAD ENOUGH, UM, UM, UM, SUCH AS WE'VE GOT, UH, YOUS COMING IN A BAKERY RESTAURANT TYPE USE THAT'S ON A CORNER, UH, AND THEY'VE GOT ALL THE PARKING IN FRONT, BASICALLY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

UH, ANY USE CAN COUNT THE PARKING SPACES THAT ARE DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THEM IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

SO IF YOU'RE ON A CORNER LOT, NOT ONLY DO YOU GET THE ONES IN FRONT, BUT YOU GET THE ONES ON THE SIDE THAT YOU GET TO COUNT TOWARD YOUR USE.

SO WE HAD ONE THAT WAS A RETAIL STORE COMING IN AS A RESTAURANT.

WHEN WE CALCULATED THE PARKING, THEY ACTUALLY HAD ENOUGH PARKING.

SO THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO PROVIDE EXTRA.

WE'VE HAD SEVERAL OTHERS THAT HAVE COME IN AND MAY HAVE TO PROVIDE 2, 3, 4, 5 SPACES.

WE'VE HAD SOME LOOKING AT IT THAT MAY HAVE AS MANY AS 20 SPACES THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE.

AND THAT BECOMES SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT WHEN DOWNTOWN AREA, UH, BUT WE HAVE, UH, KIND OF UNIFORMLY ENFORCE IT THAT WAY, LOOKING AT EACH OF THE USES AND ALLOWING THEM TO KIND OF SAY, WE LOOK AT THIS AND YOU'VE GOT ENOUGH PARKING SPACES.

AS THE PARKING STUDY SHOWED, YOU KNOW, WE EXCEED 80%, BUT MOST OF THE TIME WE'VE GOT ADEQUATE PARKING, BUT ANY USE THAT WOULD COME IN AND ADVERSELY IMPACT THOSE RATIOS, THAT'S WHERE THEY WOULD THEN REQUIRE TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL PARKING.

THANK YOU.

AND, UM, DID A LITTLE SURVEY ON SOME OTHER CITIES, DOWNTOWN PARK PARKING REGULATIONS, UM, UH, PARTICULARLY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, OF COURSE, UM, DIFFERENT CITIES HANDLE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT WAYS.

SOME, SOME KIND OF RE PROVIDED REDUCTION IN DOWNTOWN PARKING.

UM, REALLY GENERALLY, BECAUSE IN A CORE DOWNTOWN AREA, YOU MAY HAVE, UM, LARGER LOT COVERAGE.

YOU MAY HAVE OLDER BUILDINGS THAT ESSENTIALLY TAKE UP THE WHOLE LOT WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE YARDS OR, UM, ONSITE PARKING, LOTS, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

YOU REALLY RELY VERY HEAVILY ON THE PUBLIC PARKING, THE ON-STREET PUBLIC PARKING, THAT'S VERY COMMON IN A DOWNTOWN AREA.

UM, AND SO AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, UM, AS I SAID, SOME KIND OF PROVIDE REDUCTIONS OR SOME FLEXIBILITY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, BUT SOME CITIES ACTUALLY DO NOT HAVE ANY MINIMUM, UH, OFF-STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS IN THEIR DOWNTOWN AREA.

THAT INCLUDES FOR EXAMPLE, WAXAHACHIE, LEWISVILLE, AND DENISON.

AND AS YOU CAN SEE IN GRAND PRAIRIE, SOME CITIES DO JUST HAVE THEIR GENERAL PARKING STANDARDS APPLY.

UM, AND WE ALSO LOOKED AT A COUPLE OF, UH, UH, TOURIST, UH, TYPE DOWNTOWNS.

UM, SINCE THOSE DO GET SOME HEAVY VEHICULAR AND PEDESTRIAN, UH, TRAFFIC TO THEIR DOWNTOWN AREAS.

UM, SO FREDICKSBURG, FOR INSTANCE, UM, THEY PROVIDE AN OFF STREET PARKING REDUCTION BY 50% AND THEIR OFF STREET OFFSITE PARKING, UH, KIND OF GEOGRAPHIC RANGE.

THEY EXTEND BY 50%, UM, UH, FROM THE PROPERTY, UH, IN GEORGETOWN, THEY'VE GOT, UM, SEVERAL OPTIONS WITHIN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY, WHICH COVERS PART OF THEIR DOWNTOWN AREA, BUT THEY HAVE AN HPO AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER MAY APPROVE AN ALTERNATIVE PARKING PLAN OR APPROVE OFFSITE PARKING ARRANGEMENTS, OR ALLOW, UM, A FEE IN LIEU OF PARKING TO BE PAID.

AND THEN IN GRANBURY GRANBURY, UM, THERE IS NO OFF STREET PARKING REQUIRED IN THEIR DOWNTOWN AREA.

SO COMMITTEE, THAT WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION WE THROUGH IT.

SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S ALL OF OUR SLIDES, BUT WE'LL KIND OF HAND IT BACK TO YOU AND BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

NOPE.

THANK YOU, MR. GARY, MR. OAK, UH, SEE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THEM FIRST? I'LL SAY MORRIS.

WELL, UM, YEAH, THIS IS SOMETHING I, I LIVE WITH DAY AND NIGHT AND HAVE FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS, THE DIFFICULTIES HERE, UM, TO ME JUST GOING THROUGH THIS LOGICALLY, THE FIRST THING WE WOULD NEED TO DETERMINE BEFORE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS ARE THE DEFINE A CORE AREA, DEFINE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE THAT WILL PUSH US IN THE DIRECTION OF SAYING WHAT WE THINK SOME OF THE DETAILS SHOULD BE.

SO, UM, I'M THE ONE WHO SENT THIS TO COMMITTEE AND AT THE TIME I WAS LOOKING AT JUST THE SQUARE, UM, I WOULDN'T WANT THIS TO BE TOO EXPANSIVE AND TOO RESTRICTIVE, BUT IT BECAME VERY CLEAR WITH ALL THE DRAMA OVER THE POTENTIAL USE BY THE SOURCE FOR A MEDICAL CLINIC THAT, UM, MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN AND THEIR FOLLOWERS DID

[00:25:01]

NOT FEEL LIKE THAT WAS A PROPER USE ON THE SQUARE.

NOW GDPA SAID IT'D BE FINE OFF THE SQUARE.

SO, UM, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT I THINK FIRST WOULD BE DETERMINED THE AREA OR THE SUB-DISTRICT OR WHATEVER WE WANT TO CALL IT AND SAY, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? ARE WE GOING TO LEAVE EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF THAT? THE WAY IT IS AND DEFINE A NEW AREA? AND IF WE, UM, IF WE HAVE AN AREA THAT'S CLOSER IN THE SQUARE, OR, UM, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE CALLING THE AREA, YOU HAD THREE, ONE WAS THE WHOLE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT.

YES.

SO THIS, YEAH, EXACTLY.

SO THE MOST EXPENSIVE WAS THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUB DISTRICT WHERE THAT YOU SEE OUTLINED IN RED.

RIGHT.

AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO, I WOULD NOT WANT TO MAKE IT THAT WHOLE AREA, THIS RESTRICTIVE.

SURE.

SO, AND YOU HAVE THE, YOU KINDA THAT'S THE SQUARE.

OKAY.

SO, AND IT ENCOMPASSES THESE, BUT THE ONLY AVAILABLE PARKING WITH THOSE IS BASICALLY WHAT YOU SEE IN THE, IN THE THOROUGHFARES, YOU KNOW, IN THE RUNAWAY.

AND THEN THE OTHER ONE WAS THE, WHAT WOULD WE CALL THIS? THE, YEAH.

IT REQUIRED RETAIL CONSTRUCTION.

YEAH.

SO IT'S BASICALLY ALL THE WAY THROUGH, AND IT COMES DOWN TO SOME OF THESE OTHER THINGS.

YOU DO HAVE SOME VACANT LOTS, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY BE CAPTURED, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH SOME PARKING ON NOSE, BUT IT, IT DOES KIND OF EXPAND THAT NOT ONLY THE SQUARE, BUT IT EXPANDS IT DOWN TO WHERE YOU HAVE SOME MORE THE RETAILS, YOU KNOW, GOING ON BASICALLY DOWN TOWARD MSMB.

WELL, AND ONE OF MY CONCERNS, AND FRANKLY, I DEAL WITH A LOT OF MY DOWNTOWN INVESTORS.

SO I HEAR LOTS OF FACETS OF THIS, THE DOWNTOWN INVESTORS WHO ACTUALLY OWN THESE PROPERTIES ARE VERY CONCERNED THAT WE DON'T GO NUTS AND MAKE THEM SO RESTRICTIVE THAT THEY WILL HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME LEASING THEM OUT AND KEEPING THEM LEASED.

AND, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY THE NEXT TWO YEARS WHEN WE'RE TEARING IT ALL UP, UM, THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN THAT IF WE ARE TOO REACTIVE AND CLAMP DOWN TOO MUCH AND TOO LARGE ON THIS, WE'RE GOING TO, UH, HURT OR DRIVE AWAY SOME OF OUR MOST STEADY INSIGNIFICANT INVESTORS FROM OUR DOWNTOWN CORE AREA.

SO I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

UM, BUT, UM, MR. CHAIR, COULD WE, CAN WE KIND OF GET A, UH, GO THROUGH THIS STEP-BY-STEP AND, AND SEE WHAT WE, WHAT WE ALL THINK ABOUT, FIRST OF ALL, DEFINING AN AREA, WHAT OUR GENERAL THOUGHTS ARE.

I REALLY HAD THIS BROKEN DOWN INTO TWO SEPARATE ISSUES FIRST TO HACK TACKLE THE ZONING ISSUES.

AND THEN WE'LL GET TO THE PARKING AFTER THAT BECAUSE THAT'S DIFFERENT OF COURSE FOLLOWS FROM THE ZONING.

SO IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ZONING FIRST, UM, WE HAVE THIS DO HAVE THIS BIG HISTORIC AREA.

UM, YOU MENTIONED WHAT, YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE HEARING COUNCILMAN BASS.

I WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU TO WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ON THIS DISTRICT, EXPANDING IT, WHAT SHOULD BE THE LIMITS AND THAT SORT OF THING, AND AS WELL AS YOU COUNSELED ANYMORE.

OKAY.

UM, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH, WITH DEBORAH THAT, UM, AS FAR AS RESTRICTING GOES, WE WANT TO RESTRICT AS LITTLE AS WE CAN AND STILL ACCOMPLISH OUR GOALS.

SO I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT IF, IF THE CHOICES WERE BETWEEN THOSE THREE, I WOULD CHOOSE THE GREEN ONE AS THE RESTRICTED AREA.

UM, AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, I MEAN, LOOK AT IT, LOOK AT ANY, ANY OF THE DOWNTOWN AREAS, THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE REALLY CONCENTRATED AROUND THAT SQUARE.

UM, AND AS FAR AS PARKING GOES, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I LIKE, I LIKED THE SOLUTION OF DIRECTIONAL SIGNS AND, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF PARKING, YOU KNOW, RIGHT THERE AT THE GRANVILLE AND THE ATRIUM RIGHT THERE AND DIRECTIONAL SIGNS, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'D BE A GREAT SOLUTION FOR THAT, BUT YEAH, I AGREE THAT THE, THE GREEN BORDER SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD BE THE BEST BORDER.

AND I DO HAVE SOME OTHER QUESTIONS AS WELL.

OKAY.

GO AHEAD.

OKAY.

AND ONE, I WASN'T SURE WHAT ALL WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT ON THOSE, BUT I KNEW THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE WAS ON IT, BUT SO IN LOOK AND LOOKING AT ALL OF THE PLANS FOR THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE ONE THING, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT PLACE TO ADDRESS IT, JUST LET ME KNOW AND I'LL TAKE IT UP ELSEWHERE, BUT THERE'S, THERE'S NO PLANS FOR IT.

I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY PLANS FOR ANY PUBLIC RESTROOMS ANYWHERE.

THERE ARE, THERE ARE.

OKAY.

CAUSE LIKE I JUST WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE 45 PAGE SLIDE AGAIN.

I STILL COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING FOR THAT.

SO IT'S ON THERE SOMEWHERE.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

YES.

THAT'S PART OF, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY PART OF THAT PACKAGE, BUT OKAY.

IT IS.

OKAY.

GOOD.

GOOD.

OKAY, GOOD.

I WAS IN ROCKWELL THIS PAST WEEKEND AND I WAS LIKE, WAIT, I HAVE A RESTROOM THERE.

I HAD NOTICED IN OURS.

OKAY, GOOD.

UM, AS FAR AS THE SLIDES FOR TODAY.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, CAN WE GO TO THE SLIDE WHERE YOU TALKED ABOUT, UM, ASSEMBLY, ASSEMBLY GATHERING AREAS? YEAH.

OKAY.

SO HOW DO, UM, OKAY.

AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PLACES OF ASSEMBLY, BECAUSE THESE AREN'T ALL JUST PUBLIC PLACES OF ASSEMBLY.

FOR EXAMPLE, A THEATER IS NOT A PUBLIC PLACE, YOU HAVE TO PAY TO GET INTO IT, RIGHT? SO

[00:30:01]

THESE ARE PLACES OF ASSEMBLY WHETHER YOU PAY TO GET IN OR NOT.

RIGHT.

SO HOW DOES A LIVE MUSIC VENUE FIT INTO THAT AND HOW WOULD A COMEDY CLUB FIT INTO THAT? UM, BECAUSE I WOULD THINK THAT THOSE WOULD BE CONSIDERED PLACES OF ASSEMBLY AS WELL, BUT THEY'RE NOT, I DON'T SEE OTHER OF THOSE, THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

I'LL JUMP IN JUST A, THIS MAY NOT BE A COMPLETE AND COMPREHENSIVE LIST.

THESE WERE SOME EXAMPLES, BUT BRIAN MENTIONED, I THINK A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS EARLIER, UM, EARLIER ABOUT 20 MINUTES AGO, SOME OTHER EXAMPLES THAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED ASSEMBLIES TO THE LEGAL DISTINCTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE, YOU COULD AT LEAST ARGUE, UH, WITH A STRAIGHT FACE.

UM, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A, UM, A, YOU SAID COMEDY CLUB AND WHAT A LIVE MUSIC LIVE MUSIC.

SO, UM, NUMBER ONE, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND WE'RE GOING TO USE THE SQUARE AS A PLACE OF ASSEMBLY.

SO IN WHATEVER INITIAL, UM, INVENTORY THAT WE TAKE THAT WOULD NEED TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, UM, UM, YOU WOULD COUNT THE NUMBER OF PERSONS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE A PART OF ANY KIND OF, WE WOULD TREAT THE SQUARE AS BASICALLY A ASSEMBLY AREA FOR THE, FOR THIS PURPOSES, FOR THESE LIMITS, FOR, AND AS FAR AS THE CLUB GOES, THAT WOULD REALLY WHETHER IT'S COMEDY CLUB OR, UM, THE TAVERN ON THE SQUARE OR INTRINSIC.

THAT'S REALLY MORE OF A, UM, BECAUSE IF IT'S A COMEDY CLUB AND THEY'RE SERVING ALCOHOL, THEY'LL HAVE TO BE SERVING FOOD.

THAT'S MORE OF A RESTAURANT SLASH FOOD SERVICE PLACE, WHICH IS WHAT WE WANT.

WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE ON THE SQUARE.

AND THERE'S A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THOSE THINGS LEGALLY THEN THERE ARE BETWEEN CIVIC CLUBS, UM, SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCIES, THEATERS.

OKAY.

OKAY.

SO EITHER ONE OF THOSE WOULD FALL ON MORE ON A RESTAURANT CATEGORY.

OKAY.

OKAY, COOL.

AND THEN, UM, SO I NOTICED ON ONE LIST YOU HAD, UH, ANTIQUE STORES, BUT THEN, AND I THINK THAT THEY WERE ALLOWED, BUT THEN ON ANOTHER LIST, IT HAD FLEA MARKETS THAT WERE NOT ALLOWED OR WHAT'S, I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS TO ME A FLEA MARKET IN AN ANTIQUE STORE AT THE SAME THING, BUT THEY'RE, WELL, THEY'RE NOT BY, UM, UH, THE GDC DEFINES A FLEA MARKET AS JUST USED MERCHANDISE.

SO IT COULD BE ANYTHING, UM, WHEN IT'S AN ANTIQUE OR AN ANTIQUE MALL OR AN ANTIQUE SHOP, THEY'RE BASICALLY BONAFIDE ANTE THINGS.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT JUST A TRACK TAPES, CASSETTE TAPES THAT MAY HAVE COME FROM, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS WHAT, BECAUSE THOSE AREN'T ANTIQUE, THEY'RE NOT AUNTIE, BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN THE GDC BETWEEN A FLEA MARKET AND AN ANTIQUE MALL.

OKAY.

OKAY.

CAUSE I KNOW THERE'S ALREADY, LIKE THERE'S ALREADY A VINTAGE CLOTHING STORE DOWN THERE.

THAT'S GOING TO SAY, YEAH.

SO THERE IS NOTHING, THIS IS JUST OLD STUFF.

YEAH.

I MEAN, I THINK PERSONALLY, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S CLOSER TO A FLEA MARKET THAN AN ANTIQUE STORE.

RIGHT.

SO I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS I JUST WANT TO SEE TWO THINGS THAT ARE SO CLOSE TOGETHER AND THEY BOTH HAVE AN OPPOSITE ANSWER.

AND THERE'S ALSO THE, I THINK THAT'S A LOT OF GRAY AREA.

SURE.

THERE'S ALSO THE USED GOODS, RETAIL SALES AND DOORS.

SO WE HAVE OUR INTENT WAS TO TRY TO CAPTURE BOOGIE NIGHTS AND SOME OF THOSE OTHERS AS, AS BEING ALLOWED, WE DIDN'T REALLY, UM, DIDN'T REALLY CONSIDER THOSE FLEA MARKETS.

AND JIM MAY BE PULLING UP THE DEFINITIONS THERE, BUT THERE ARE SOME DEFINITIONS FOR EACH OF THESE.

SO THERE, WE TRIED TO KIND OF GO THROUGH AND MAKE SURE, UM, WE WEREN'T ZONED IN SOME OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, REALLY CORE BUSINESSES OUT.

SO NO, THE FLEA MARKET INDOOR IS DEFINED AS A PERIODIC MARKET HELD FULLY WITHIN A BUILDING WHERE GROUPS OF INDIVIDUAL SELLERS OFFER THEIR GOODS FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC.

TYPICALLY WITH NO LONG-TERM LEASE ARRANGEMENT BETWEEN THE INDIVIDUAL SELLER AND THE FLEA MARKET, FLEA MARKET OPERATOR.

AND THAT'S, THERE'S AN INDOOR AND OUTDOOR ONE.

AND THEN, UM, WE'LL GET YOU THE ANTIQUE MALL.

WELL, SO PERIODIC SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S PROBABLY THE DIFFERENCE THEN, RIGHT? OKAY.

I'M KIND OF MULTI-TENANT RIGHT.

YEAH.

THEY'RE USUALLY, YEAH.

THEY'RE LIKE, YEAH, LIKE CONSIGNMENT THERE'S UM, UM, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF THE NAME OF THE ONE DOWN THERE ON, UH, OKAY.

ANTIQUE SHOP, WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY FIND ANTIQUE MALLS, NOT ANTIQUE SHOP AND RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT IN THE SALE OF WORKS OF ART FURNITURE OR OTHER ARTIFACTS OF EARLIER PERIOD AND ANTIQUE, UH, OBJECTS VALUE IS TYPICALLY GREATER THAN THE ORIGINAL MARKET PRICE, UH, BECAUSE OF AGE SCARCITY OR INTRINSIC VALUE WITH ALL SALES AND STORAGE OCCURRING COMPLETELY INSIDE THE BUILDING, UH, UNLESS OTHERWISE ALLOWED BY THE ZONING DISTRICT.

THE TERM DOES NOT INCLUDE SALES OF ANY CAR, TRUCK, RECREATIONAL VEHICLE, BOAT, TRAILER, MOTORCYCLE, ALL TRAIN, IT GOES ON TO, UM, JUST VEHICLES.

IT DOESN'T LET YOU DO ANTIQUE VEHICLES IN THAT, BUT ANYTHING ELSE IS OKAY.

[00:35:01]

COOL.

YEAH.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THE PERIODICS SOUNDS LIKE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE.

SO THAT MAKES SENSE.

ALL RIGHT.

LAST QUESTION I HAD, UM, THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.

OKAY.

UM, I HAVE A QUESTION.

UH, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE MAP OF THE DIFFERENT DISTRICTS THERE? YES, SIR.

I'M CURIOUS HOW THIS OUTLINE OVERLAPS WITH WHAT'S BEING RECONSTRUCTED IN THE BOND, BOTH THE SQUARE ITSELF, AND THEN THE PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE BEING DONE AROUND THE SQUARE.

OKAY.

YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AND THAT WAS PART OF THE REASON WE, UM, KIND OF THROUGHOUT THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT AS AN OPTION, JUST BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT DOES KIND OF COVER A LOT OF THE, UM, PAST STREETSCAPING IMPROVEMENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND THAT.

UM, UM, AND THEN OF COURSE YOU KIND OF ZOOM IN ON THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE RICHARD, WHERE OF COURSE THAT'S A HEAVY INVESTMENT AS WELL, UM, FROM, FROM BOND FUNDING AND WHATNOT.

SO I'M NOT SURE I'D BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO THE SPECIFICS ON THE, UM, SPECIFIC BOND PROJECTS BEYOND THAT.

BUT, UM, BUT THAT WAS SOMETHING WE, WE NEED LATISHA FOR THEM, RIGHT.

DANA, DO YOU HAVE THAT WITH YOU BLOCKS? I CAN PROBABLY FIND A, AND THAT, THAT EXTENDS ALL THE WAY TO THE EXTENT THEY'RE ON THE WEST SIDE TO GLENBROOK.

UM, IF YOU NEED THAT, I CAN, UM, JUST WITH THESE IMPROVEMENTS, THEN WE'RE ALSO, UM, WE'RE IMPROVING THE PARKING AND WE'RE ADDING WELL, RECONFIGURING THE PARKING.

WE MAY ACTUALLY BE SUBTRACTING PARKING THEN GIVEN A DIFFERENT CONFIGURATION, BUT THE STUDY AND THE GRAPH YOU SHOWED WAS ONLY ON STREET PARKING AT HITTING THOSE 85% BARRIERS.

NOW THE STUDY ITSELF SHOW THAT THERE'S PLENTY OF OTHER PARKING WITHIN THAT 500 FOOT, LIKE YOU SAID, AND VERY UNDER UTILIZED IN THE PARKING GARAGES AND AROUND.

SO IT'S REALLY A PERCEPTION OF CLOSE PARKING.

AND THEN WHEN YOU HIT THAT 85% OF THE STUDY SAID, THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE, YOU HAVE TO CIRCLE AROUND AND LOOK FOR PARKING AND THAT'S WHEN YOU THINK YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH.

UM, SO IT'S REALLY NOT, I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A PARKING, UH, WE'RE NOT CONSTRAINED BY PARKING WHERE THERE'S PLENTY OF PARKING.

IT'S JUST THE AVAILABILITY OF IMMEDIATE PARKING IS THE ISSUE.

UH, THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL TIMES FOR EVENTS.

I'VE HAD TO WALK A BLOCK AND A HALF, TWO BLOCKS AWAY CARRYING, UH, ICE COOLERS AND ALL THAT TO GET TO EVENT AND, YOU KNOW, CONCERTS WHEN WE HAD THEM A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

BUT, UH, IT'S KIND OF EXPECTED FOR A BIG EVENT LIKE THAT.

BUT WHAT I'M HEARING, WHAT YOU SAID, COUNSELING, WHERE IT'S JUST THE IMMEDIATELY SQUARE IS A CONCERN FOR NOW.

AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO START IF WE JUST START WITH WHAT'S THE IMMEDIATE SQUARE RIGHT AROUND OUTLINED IN GREEN, WE COULD FOCUS ON THAT AREA.

UM, I HAVE OTHER THOUGHTS ON PARKING WE GET TO THERE, BUT IF WE COULD, AS COMMITTEE AGREED, THAT WOULD BE THE START OF THE PARKING ON THE PARKING LOT OF THE ZONING AND IMPLEMENT THESE CHANGES.

I LIKE WHAT I'M HEARING AS FAR AS THESE, UH, THE LIST THAT YOU PROVIDED IS GOOD PLACE TO START.

I THINK I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THAT LIST AND LESS ISOLATED MORE.

RIGHT.

CAN WE GO BACK TO THE, THE YOUTH SPACE SPECIFICALLY? UM, SO ONE THING I DON'T, UH, WHERE WOULD THE NEW HAIRSTYLING SALON FIT IN THESE CURRENT ALLOWED, USES? OKAY.

HERE'S SALONS, UH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, JIM, BUT THOSE ARE CLASSIFIED AS PERSONAL SERVICES.

YES MA'AM.

OKAY.

SO, AND PERSONAL SERVICES ARE, WOULD BE, UH, WOULD BE STILL ALLOWED WE'RE PROPOSING TO KEEP THAT AS ALLOWED.

YES.

OKAY.

BECAUSE THAT'S, UM, THAT'S BEEN AN INTERESTING THING BECAUSE IT'S NOT RESTAURANT RETAIL ENTERTAINMENT, WHICH HAS BEEN THE, THE MANTRA, BUT IT'S VERY POPULAR.

IT'S A VERY POPULAR, WELL-ESTABLISHED ONE THAT'S ALREADY IN DOWNTOWN DALLAS.

I'M VERY ANXIOUS FOR THEM TO OPEN THEY'RE SLOWER THAN A SNAIL, BUT, UM, THEY'RE GOING TO BRING A LOT OF FEET TO THE STREET FOR US AS SOON AS THEY OPEN SO GOOD.

THAT HELPS.

UM, I WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE, UM, WHERE IT'S FURNITURE, HOUSEHOLD FURNISHINGS AND APPLIANCE SALES AND RENTAL, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KICK APPLIANCE OUT OF THERE.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY APPROPRIATE FOR THE SQUARE.

AND I DON'T THINK MANY OF MY BUSINESSES WOULD THINK APPLIANCE RENTALS.

UM, THAT'S NOT THE CONCEPT.

I THINK THAT THEY'RE IMAGINING, AND I DON'T EVEN THINK THEY'RE REALLY CRAZY ABOUT THE FURNITURE BEING THERE, BUT COURT'S BAKER'S HAS BEEN THERE FOREVER AND NOBODY'S GONNA MESS WITH THEM.

DO WE WANT A NEW FURNITURE STORE AT ALL COMING ON TO THE SQUARE? I THINK IF WE TOOK A POLL, THE ANSWER WOULD BE NO GARLAND FURNITURE STORE BROUGHT NOBODY TO THE SQUARE FOUR YEARS, FOUR YEARS.

SO WE'VE ALREADY GOT ONE LARGE FURNITURE STORE THERE.

I WOULD PERSONALLY PREFER TO MAKE THAT BECOME ONE OF THE LEGAL NONCONFORMING

[00:40:01]

THINGS AND STRIKE THAT OFF OF, UH, LEAVING THAT OPEN FOR THE FUTURE, EVEN THOUGH IT IS RETAIL, W WOULD YOU SUGGEST STRIKING IT OR REQUIRING AN SUV FINE.

AND SUP THAT WOULD BE, UM, JUST NOT HAVING THEM BY RIGHT.

BE ABLE TO COME IN AND, YOU KNOW, UM, I'M THINKING AMONG OTHER THINGS, THE JONES BUILDING HAVEN'T HELPED US, THAT I'M WORKING WITH THAT IS A VERY LARGE BUILDING.

I'VE SEEN THE CONCEPT PLANS FOR IT.

WE'LL SEE IF IT HAPPENS, BUT COULD AT ANY MOMENT THEY TURN AROUND AND DECIDE THEY'RE GOING TO LEASE IT TO A BIG FURNITURE STORE.

THEY COULD.

I WOULD RATHER THAT PROBABLY ALREADY VESTED IF THEY'VE ALREADY SUBMITTED ANY TYPE OF PLAN FOR IT THAT INDICATES THAT AT FURNITURE STORE, WOULD YOU USE THERE? IT'S PROBABLY ALREADY BEEN VESTED IN THE PLAN THAT I HAVE SEEN IS NOT A FURNITURE STORE.

IT'S A RESTAURANT.

WELL, THAT'S GOOD TYPE OF DEAL.

YEAH.

BUT IT'S ALSO NOT SET IN STONE EITHER.

NO, IT'S NOT, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY, HAVEN'T WHAT HE'S SAYING THOUGH.

THEY HAVEN'T SUBMITTED ANYTHING THAT WOULD GIVE THEM VESTED RIGHTS.

SO I WAS JUST TRYING TO CLEAR THAT.

YEAH.

BUT THEY DO, THEY WOULD JUST KEEP IN MIND A PLAN UNDER STATE LAW IS, COULD BE AS LITTLE AS A NAPKIN WITH THE, WITH THE DRY HAND DRAWN OUTLINE AND SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK? YEAH.

WHAT DO YOU THINK FURNITURE STORE? AND THAT WOULD BE A PLAN THAT WOULD VEST YOUR RIGHTS UNDER BROUGHT THAT UP.

THEY HAVE NOT BROUGHT IT UP.

RIGHT.

SO, AND AGAIN, I AM CONCERNED THAT WE MOVE THIS ALONG AS QUICKLY AS WE, BECAUSE WE HAVE, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, ANOTHER BUSINESS, VERY INTERESTED IN A PLACE ON THE SQUARE, IT'S A DESIRABLE BUSINESS.

UM, AND, UM, RIGHT NOW OUR CURRENT ARRANGEMENT WITH PARKING WOULD KILL THEM.

UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT, WHATEVER WE'RE GOING TO DO, JUST DO IT.

AND IF WE HAVE TO MAKE, UH, REFINEMENTS AS WE GO, THAT'S FINE, BUT I DON'T WANT TO CREATE ANOTHER UGLY SITUATION THAT WE THEN HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

SO, UM, ALL RIGHT.

SO LET ME SEE WHAT ELSE I HAVE A LOT OF THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT, THE PARKING, BUT, UM, ABOUT, UH, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE CHURCH ON CIVIC CENTER AND THOSE OPTIONS? UM, I KNOW IT'S TOUCHY IF WE JUST REMOVE THEM AS ALLOWED USES.

SO DO WE JUST LEAVE THEM BLANK? WE JUST ARE SILENT ON THEM.

THAT'S CORRECT.

BECAUSE, UM, AS YOU RECALL, UM, UNDER OUR, UM, GDC, IF IT'S NOT LISTED, UM, EXPRESSLY LISTED IN THE LAND USE MATRIX, THEN IT'S PROHIBITED.

AND SO YOU'D BASICALLY JUST EXCLUDE THEM OUT OF THE CHAPTER SEVEN LAND USES.

OKAY.

UM, AND IF YOU, AND I, I HATE THE WHOLE IDEA OF GOING WITH NUMBER TWO, WHERE WE'RE HAVING TO DO THESE ON-SITE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, BECAUSE PART OF THAT MATRIX FOR METRIC FOR TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MANY, UM, AND YOU WEREN'T IN ON THIS, BUT FIGURING OUT HOW MANY, WHERE WE'RE DETERMINING A, SORT OF A LEGACY APPROVED PARKING FOR SPACE BY WHAT IT USED TO BE.

AND THE MORE YEARS GO ON THE STUPID OR THAT'S GOING TO BE, I DON'T WANT TO GET TRAPPED IN THAT.

WELL, LET ME, LET ME JUST, JUST SUGGEST THAT THAT OPTION IS THERE, BUT IT'S PROBABLY NOT FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE.

IT WOULD NEVER BE EXERCISED.

UM, AND SO IT'S PROBABLY NOT SOMETHING YOU, A COUNCIL WOULD EVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE NOBODY IS GOING TO, UH, BUILD A PARKING GARAGE OFF TO SQUARE UNDERNEATH THE BUILDING, OR THEY WOULD ONLY, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD NEVER, IT WOULD NEVER BE AFFORDABLE FOR THEM TO DO THAT.

AND SO, AND IF THEY DID BUILD A PARKING SQUARE, THAT WAS A PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, THAT THE PUBLIC HAD ACCESS TO THAT MAY NOT BE A TERRIBLE THING.

IF THEY WERE WILLING TO SINK THAT MUCH MONEY INTO SOMETHING THAT WOULD NEVER REALLY HAPPEN.

I CAN'T IMAGINE IT HAPPENING.

SO.

OKAY.

SO DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE REMOVING THESE THINGS AS ALLOWED USES IN, ON THE SQUARE ONLY, NOT FOR LARGER AREAS, BUT AROUND THE SQUARE THAT WE'VE DEFINED, HOW DO YOU SEE THAT AS BEING A HIGH RISK THING THAT WE'RE GOING TO RUN INTO MORE? UM, USUALLY POLITICALLY IT MIGHT BE LEGALLY.

I THINK YOU'LL BE, YOU'RE FINE.

AS LONG AS WE'RE TREATING THEM ALL THE SAME.

OKAY.

UM, YOU ARE, YOU ARE IN, IN ONE SENSE, ALTHOUGH THE GDC, DOESN'T IT ZONING DOESN'T APPLY TO GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES, SUCH AS GARLAND.

WE OWNED THE THEATER, YOU KNOW, FOR DISCRIMINATION PURPOSES AND TREATING EVERYONE WEAK EQUAL.

YOU ARE THROWING OUR THEATER INTO NOT A TECHNICAL, NONCONFORMING LEGAL NONCONFORMING USE, BUT FOR DISCRIMINATION PURPOSES, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE COURTS WOULD CERTAINLY LOOK AT IF WE, IF IT BURNED DOWN AND WE DECIDED WE WERE GOING TO REBUILD IT, AND THEN SOMEBODY LATER COMPLAINED.

SO THERE'S THE RISK THERE, IT'S A SMALL RISK, BUT THERE IS A RISK THERE.

IT'S GOT TO TELL YOU ABOUT THAT RISK.

WELL, THE, THE SUP WITH ONSITE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, THAT JUST SOUNDED A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH ALONG

[00:45:01]

THE LINES OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING NOW TO FIGURE OUT PARKING REQUIREMENTS ON THE SQUARE.

AND I AM REALLY HOPING TO DITCH THAT WHOLE PRETTY MUCH DOES THAT.

THAT'S MORE OF AN ACCOMMODATION TO SAY, LISTEN, WE'RE GOING TO BE OPEN TO THE POSSIBILITY, BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITY EVER BEING EXERCISED.

SO ARE YOU BASICALLY MORE COMFORTABLE WITH GOING WITH OPTION TWO? UM, I'M, UH, I'M UH, FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH EITHER ONE, THERE'S STILL A RISK, JUST SO, JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR ALSO, UM, THERE IS A SLIGHT RISK THAT SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS, AND FILES A, UH, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWSUIT AND SAYS, YOU KNOW WHAT? THIS IS A VIOLATION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

AND THEY, THEY CHALLENGE OUR ZONING ORDINANCE.

IF WE DO THIS, THERE IS THAT RISK AND THERE WOULD BE A CHALLENGE AND I THINK WE'D WIN IT.

AND EVERYBODY I'VE TALKED TO FOR THE MOST PART THINKS WE COULD WIN IT AS LONG AS WE'RE TREATING EVERYONE THE SAME, WE'LL BE OKAY, BUT THERE IS A RISK THERE WE'RE TAKING A RISK.

I'M NOT SURE OF ANOTHER CITY AROUND HERE.

THAT'S DONE THAT.

THAT'S ANOTHER RISK IS THE FACT THAT WE'RE, WE ARE GOING TO BE ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF THAT.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

BUT THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE OPTION TWO IS THE MORE PRUDENT ONE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S MORE STAFF INTENSIVE AND FUSSY.

SO, UM, JIM, THIS WILL PROBABLY FALL TO SOME EXTENT.

YEAH, WELL, IT DOES.

I MEAN, IT JUST STARTS WITH US AS PART OF THE ENFORCEMENT.

WE WOULD LOOK AT EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY AND MAKE THOSE DETERMINATIONS.

THEN IF WE SAY, IT'S GOT TO HAVE AN SUP, THEN WE TURN IT OVER TO WILL.

AND WILL THOSE THROUGH THAT, THE ZONING PROCESS, THEN IT COMES BACK ON TO US, YOU KNOW, FOR ENFORCEMENT AND CONSTRUCTIONS.

IT'S VERY HELPFUL BY THE WAY, FOR TOO LIMITING THE SIZE JUST TO THE SQUARE FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

WHEN YOU, WHEN WE'RE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR LITIGATION, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT SO LIMITING THE PLACES OF WORSHIP.

AND THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY PROTECTED CLASS OF, UM, LAND USE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS THAT IS THE CHURCHES IN PLACES OF WORSHIP.

IT'S NOT SO RESTRICTIVE IN, IN AREA THAT SOMEBODY CAN, HAS TO DRIVE FIVE MILES DOWN THE ROAD TO, UM, THEIR, THEIR, UM, PREFERRED PLACE OF WORSHIP ARE NOT IN THEIR BLOCK.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A BLOCK AND THAT'S SOMETHING THE COURTS LOOK AT, THEY'RE LOOKING AT ARE, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH INCONVENIENCE ARE YOU CAUSING PEOPLE HERE? AND THE FACT THAT WE'RE JUST DOING A BLOCK OR TWO THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD THING.

I, I GENERALLY PREFER TO STAY OUT OF THINGS THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE'RE SETTING OURSELVES UP FOR AN UGLY LAWSUIT, WE'LL HOPEFULLY NOT ASK, BUT SOME FUTURE COUNCIL, WE TOTALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT, UH, TO GO TO GO THROUGH AN UGLY LAWSUIT.

UM, IF, IF IT'S NOT OVERLY BURDENSOME TO STAFF TO DO THIS SUP THING, THEN, UM, I'M FINE WITH THAT.

SO, UM, THAT WAS MY OTHER, MY OTHER QUESTION WITH THIS, BUT LET ME, LET ME YELLED IT AND SEE WHAT YOU GUYS THINK.

COUNCIL MEMBER MORRISON, WE TAKE, WE'VE ALREADY DONE KIND OF AN ANALYSIS OF, OF ALL IT USES AROUND THE SQUARE.

SO WE KNOW WHAT'S OUT THERE AND WE KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY'RE AT AND WHAT THOSE USERS ARE.

AND WILL'S GOT A MAP OF KIND OF WHAT THEY ARE, BUT WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEIR OCCUPANCY LOADS ARE AND WHAT THEIR PARKING IS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE FULLY AWARE AND WE'VE ALREADY GOT THAT DOCUMENTED.

SO THAT'S NOT A HUGE PROBLEM FOR US.

AND ON THAT NOTE, WHAT'S GREAT.

ALSO ABOUT THE LIMITED SIZE IS TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE'S ONLY ONE, WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT ONE PLACE OF WORSHIP CURRENTLY, RIGHT.

CAUSE THE FOUNDRY'S OUTSIDE THAT LINE, RIGHT.

THE FOUNDRY'S OUTSIDE AND THEN THE CHURCH NEXT DOOR TO THE MASSAGE, UM, YEAH.

UH, CLINIC, UM, IT'S ONLY THE ONE ON THE CORNER.

YEP.

ON THE CORNER.

CAN YOU REMEMBER WHAT THEIR NAME IS? BUT THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT'S WITHIN THAT.

YEAH.

LIFE, WELL, ACTUALLY ON THE SQUARE AND BUSINESS OWNERS HATED BEING ON THE SQUARE, BUT IT'S ON SQUARE AND ON THE SQUARE, IT WILL STAY UNTIL THEY, AND IT DOESN'T CAPTURE THE BOY SCOUTS EITHER.

THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT THE WAY, THE WAY IT'S DRAWN HERE, THE, THE BOY SCOUTS ARE OUT JUST OUTSIDE OF IT.

AND SO, OKAY.

I'M VERY HAPPY WITH LIMITING IT TO THE SQUARE.

UM, UM, I'M OKAY.

GIVEN THAT, YEAH, WE DID STRUGGLE THROUGH ALL OF THE USES AND REQUIRED PARKING AND EVERYTHING ELSE ALL THE WAY AROUND THE SQUARE A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.

SO IF YOU'VE GOT ALL THAT AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE, THEN I'M FINE WITH STAYING AT ILLEGAL DEEP WATERS AND JUST GOING WITH OPTION TWO, UM, AS FAR AS THOSE PARTICULAR USES.

SO THANKS.

MA'AM COUNSELING AMBASSADOR.

YOU HAVE ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THIS ZONING TOPIC? OH, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING.

OKAY.

AS FAR AS TIMING WISE, I KNOW WE WANTED TO MOVE QUICKLY ON THIS ITEM.

CAN WE SEPARATE THIS FROM THE PARKING SEPARATE AND THEN BRING IT, UM, MOVE IT IF WE WANT TO, IF WE'RE ALL AGREED UPON THIS SUP FOR THESE, ALL THOSE LISTED AND THEN ADDITIONAL ADDING THE FURNITURE STORES.

I THINK THAT'S ONE MORE YOU WANTED TO ADD IN THERE.

HOW CAN WE, HOW QUICKLY CAN WE MOVE TO GET THIS IN FRONT OF THE FULL COUNCIL? JUST THE ZONING ALONE,

[00:50:01]

RIGHT.

OKAY.

UH, WELL, UM, FOR WORK SESSION DISCUSSION, UM, I SUPPOSE THE FIRST, UM, FIRST WORK SESSION AND, UH, PLANNING AND ZONING.

YEAH.

OKAY.

UM, THE LAND USE THE ZONING ZONING.

YEAH.

GREAT POINT.

YEAH.

THE PARKING WE COULD, WE COULD PROBABLY GET IT DIRECTLY TO COUNCIL.

IF THEY WANT TO DO PARKING FOR US, THEY CAN SYNC UP IF, IF WE GET THIS NOW FOR ZONING.

SURE.

YEAH.

I THINK IT WOULD BE WISE TO DO THAT BEFORE SOMEBODY ELSE LOOKS AT THE SQUARE AND LOOKS AT THE ZONING AND SAYS, OH, I WANT TO BRING MY MORTUARY AND OPEN IT UP HERE.

JUST HAD THAT.

IT COULD HAPPEN.

I JUST WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS WRONG.

SO WE'RE LOOKING AT MAYBE THREE WEEKS IN FOR, TO GET TO PLANNING, ZONING AND COMMISSION.

UM, I THINK COUNSELOR MAY BE ABLE TO GET IT ON.

WE DO HAVE A MEETING NEXT WEEK.

UM, WE COULD GET ON THE AGENDA.

I BELIEVE WE JUST DO NOTICE FOR COUNCIL.

IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, BRIAN FOR ZONING AMENDMENTS CODE AMENDMENTS, I BELIEVE THAT JUST APPLIES FOR CITY COUNCIL.

SO, UM, YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE, BEFORE WE MOVE THAT I WANTED TO, IF THERE'S ANY PUBLIC INPUT, IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO HAS ANY THING, ANYONE HERE YOUR CLARIFICATION.

OKAY.

DO YOU WANT TO STEP UP TO THE MICROPHONE HERE? INTRODUCE YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD AS WELL? SURE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR BEING OBVIOUSLY I WAS NOT PREPARED.

AND SO I'M DANA LODGE.

UM, AND I AM THE DIRECTOR OF THE DDO OFFICE.

UM, SO THE PERIMETERS ARE GLENBROOK WALNUT FIFTH AND AVENUE.

A, THERE IS SOME COPY OUT, WHICH IS WHY I PROBABLY WAS NOT PERFECTLY CLEAR BECAUSE SOME OF IT HAS ALREADY HAD THE INFRASTRUCTURE, UM, FIXED PART OF THE AUSTIN AREA.

SO IT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE AREA THAT OBVIOUSLY HAS ALREADY HAD INFRASTRUCTURE, UM, CORRECTED.

SO.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

SO IF WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT AND WE'LL GO AHEAD AND I'LL LOOK FOR A MOTION THEN TO MOVE THIS ON MR. CHAIRMAN, I'VE MOVED.

I, THAT WE LET, UM, STAFF PROCEED WITH THIS AND GET IT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

OKAY.

SO I CAN HAVE MOTION TO SECOND ALL IN FAVOR.

ALL RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT.

SO YOU HAVE YOUR MARCHING ORDERS NOW FOR AN SEP FOR THOSE, I GUESS IT'S FIVE USES NOW, AND THEN SIR RESENT IT TO THE PLAN COMMISSION.

OKAY.

AND DO WE WANT TO BEGIN THE PARKING DISCUSSION? I KNOW WE HAVE A FEW MORE MINUTES IF YOU WISH.

SURE.

OKAY.

YEP.

FOR, FOR THE PARKING DISCUSSION.

YEAH.

SO I THINK WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THE PRESENTATION.

DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND PLAY IT AND MR. JOHN, I APOLOGIZE.

I WANT TO JUST GO BACK JUST TO BE REAL CLEAR, OBVIOUSLY W WE'D ADD THE, UM, THE SUP FOR THE ASSEMBLY USES, DOES THIS INCLUDE THE ENTIRE, UM, AMENDING THE LAND USE MATRIX AS WELL? ALL THE USE WE WENT OVER IT'S THE, THE, ALL THE USERS LIST, EXCEPT FOR THE FIVE, THE FURNITURE STORE CHURCHES, SOCIAL SERVICES, THEATERS, AND CIVIC CLUBS.

THOSE FIVE WOULD BE BY SEP THE OTHERS BY.

RIGHT.

OKAY.

SO THERE WERE SOME THAT WERE, THAT WERE PROPOSED TO BE REMOVED.

YOU CAN HOTEL EXTENDED STAY HOTELS ARE STILL COMFORTABLE WITH ALL THOSE.

YEAH.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

AND WHAT THE DOWNTOWN SUGGESTED ALLOW USES OF CALL THEM ON THE RIGHT THUMBS UP REAL QUICK.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

YEAH.

IF THERE'S ANY DISCUSSION ON PARKING MARKING, MANY MEMBERS I'VE SPENT A LOT AT, WELL, GO AHEAD.

I'M THE NEW GUY HERE.

I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE PARKING LOT, YOU KNOW, JUST DUCK AND COVER THAT WOULD BE, UM, AND DANA, IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ALONG HERE, JUST, YOU KNOW, WINK OR DO SOMETHING AND I WILL INVITE YOU TO COME BACK AND SPEAK.

UM, SO, AND I HAVE, UM, I HAVE FORWARDED TO THE CHAIRMAN, VARIOUS ARTICLES AND THINGS.

I'VE SEEN THAT OTHER DOWNTOWN AREAS, DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THEY'RE APPROACHING THIS AND HAS SPENT A LOT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT OUR DOWNTOWN, GOING THROUGH THE RECENT DRAMA OF SAYING WHERE, WHERE COULD MORE PARKING SPACES BE FOUND? DO WE EVEN NEED THEM? UM, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT JUDD REX, UM, HAD SAID WAS THAT A, A FA A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF DOWNTOWNS THAT HE WAS STUDYING HAD BASICALLY JUST GOTTEN THE ZONING SQUARED AWAY.

AND THEN JUST IN US, IN A CORE AREA, REMOVED PARKING REGULATIONS JUST SAID, UM, IT IS ASSUMED THAT IF THEY ARE IN THIS AREA, THAT THE PUBLIC PARKING PROVIDED WILL BE SUFFICIENT.

SO JUST COMPLETELY LIFTED ANY FURTHER, UH, CALCULATIONS.

NOW, SEE, THAT'S WHY I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT HOW

[00:55:01]

WE WOULD DO THAT IF WE ALSO WERE REQUIRING OF, UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD WORK WELL, ONE'S BY SUP AND ONE'S BY RIGHT.

MAKES IT, SO IF IT'S SUP I WOULD, I, WOULDN'T JUST A, JUST A SUGGESTION AND IT'S REALLY NOT EVEN A, UM, A LEGAL OPINION.

IT'S MORE A PRACTICAL ONE YOU MIGHT CONSIDER DON'T, DON'T DON'T THINK THAT YOUR, YOUR PREVIOUS CONVERSATION ON THE SMALLER DOWNTOWN SQUARE'S ZONE NECESSARILY IS THE BEST APPROACH FOR THE PARKING REGULATIONS, BECAUSE I'M THINKING IN TERMS OF GOING UP MAIN STREET TOWARD GLENBROOK, UM, AND ALL THE, UH, ALL THE RETAIL AND RESTAURANTS THERE, AND THAT WOULD RUN INTO PARKING ISSUES UNDER OUR CURRENT ZONING AS WELL.

AND SO YOU CAN'T EXPAND THE, THE DISCUSSION ON PARKING, THE PARKING AREA TO A BROADER AREA THAN WHAT WE JUST DID IN REGARD TO LAND USE.

THAT'S PROBABLY BE MORE, I'LL LEAVE IT TO THE EXPERTS, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT'D BE MORE PRACTICAL.

MY NEW BAKERY, FOR INSTANCE, I THINK THEY ENDED UP HAVING ENOUGH SPACES, BUT IF THEY HADN'T, UM, YEAH, I WOULD BE, YEAH.

YES.

IF THEY, IF THEY HAD COME IN AND WANT HER TO GO IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT BLOCK, THEY'D RUN INTO THAT PROBLEM.

THEY WERE LUCKY TO BE ON THE CORNER.

SO I THINK, UM, TO OUR CITY, ATTORNEY'S POINT THAT LOOKING AT THAT AS A, AS A LARGER, MAYBE LOOKING AT THE PARKING AS THE LARGER YELLOW LINES MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE SEE, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, THE BUSINESSES WITHOUT THE NECESSARY LAND TO PROVIDE PARKING.

AND THE LIMITED, SOMETIMES THE STREET PARKING IS VERY LIMITED OR NOT EVEN THERE AT ALL.