* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE AUGUST 16TH MEETING OF THE GARLAND PLAN COMMISSION. YES. WE'RE BACK HERE ON ZOO. WE'D HOPE TO BE IN PERSON, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE FOR THE MONTH OF AUGUST, I'M GOING TO BE BACK ON ZOOM, KEEP YOUR FINGERS ACROSS. IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL BE BACK, LIVE IN SEPTEMBER, WHERE WE CAN SEE ALL OF YOU TO COME DOWN HERE. TYPICALLY WE START OUR MEETING WITH THE PRAYER PLEDGE. YOU'RE INVITED TO JOIN US. TONIGHT'S PARENT PLEDGE WILL BE BY COMMISSIONER LOT. ANY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, COMMISSIONERS, AND STAFF. TONIGHT, WE MAKE DECISIONS THAT WILL SHAPE THE FUTURE OF GARLAND. IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PREVENT INNOVATIVE SPACES FOR OUR CITIZENS. AS PLANNED COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THE BAR AND RAISE IT ABOVE THE STATUS QUO TO MODERNIZE AND MOVE TOWARDS A MORE AESTHETIC, PEACEFUL AND CONNECTED CITY. MAYBE WE CONSIDER THE FULL WEIGHT OF OUR DECISIONS TONIGHT WITH RESPECT TO ONE ANOTHER AND DUTY TO THE CITIZENS OF GARLAND. THIS IS AN INVOCATION OF WELL-WISHES TO OUR SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN TO HEALTH AND GOOD FORTUNE AND HEARTFELT CONDOLENCES TO THOSE WHO SUFFER GRIEF FROM THE LOSS OF LOVED ONES. THANK YOU NOW FOR THE PLEDGE, I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. WELL, GOOD EVENING. AND WELCOME AGAIN TO OUR MEETING. I WAS GOING TO INTRODUCE OUR NEW COMMISSIONER, BUT I THINK SHE MAY BE BEING SWORN IN NOW BECAUSE I DON'T SEE HER ON THE SCREEN. SO ONCE SHE'S BACK ON, I'M GOING TO INTRODUCE YOU TO COMMISSIONER AND DISTRICT THREE, GOT TO LOVE THESE ZOOM MEETINGS. THEY JUST GO PERFECTLY. ALRIGHTY. AND UM, FOR THOSE THAT ARE GOING TO SPEAK TONIGHT, WE DEFINITELY NEED YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND YOUR MICROPHONE FOR THE RECORD. WE DO APPRECIATE YOU TO DO THAT. UH, APPLICANTS, WE'LL GIVE 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE. OTHER SPEAKERS MAY ALLOW THREE MINUTES, BUT IF YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION OR SOMETHING, WE DEFINITELY ALLOW MORE TIME FOR THAT. SO LET'S GET ON OUR, ON OUR AGENDA. FIRST [CONSENT AGENDA] ITEMS ON OUR AGENDA ARE, ARE EXCUSE ME, ON OUR CONSENT AGENDA. THESE ARE ITEMS THAT THE COMMISSIONER TO REVIEW AND WE'LL BE VOTING ON IN ONE MOTION TONIGHT. ALL WE HAVE A MINUTE, SO I WON'T GO THROUGH THE WHOLE DEAL ABOUT WITHDRAWING AN ITEM FOR SEPARATE CONSIDERATION. I'LL JUST GO AHEAD AND READ IT. ITEM ONE, A CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES FOR JULY 26TH, 2021. DO I HEAR A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA CHAIR? OKAY. COMMISSIONER DALTON. I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA AS PERSON. AND I SEE THE FIRST, SECOND, LITTLE SLOW THERE. COMMISSIONING THE OLD GUY, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS BEAT YOU. WE HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER DALTON A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS, ALL IN FAVOR, UH, ASSIGNED THUMBS UP. AND THAT APPEARS TO BE UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU. ALRIGHTY. ON TO OUR ZONING CASE KNOWN IN CASES, ZONING ITEM TWO A IT WILL, THIS IS A TWO-PARTER TWO EIGHT AND TWO B. I'LL READ THEM BOTH OUT KIND OF IF WE CAN TAKE THEM WITH ONE MOTION, WE'LL DO SO THERE'S A NEED TO SEPARATE THEM. WE WILL DO THAT TO ITEM TWO EIGHT CONSIDERATION OF THE APPLICATION OF ION DESIGN GROUP. OH, I'M SORRY. ITEMS TWO A AND TWO B THAT APPLICANT HAS REQUESTED POSTPONEMENT UNTIL OUR SEPTEMBER 13TH MEETING. WE WILL NOT BE HEARING THOSE TONIGHT. [Items 2c & 2d] ALL RIGHT. I AM TO SEE, AND TO DEERE ALSO PAIRED TOGETHER. LET ME GO AHEAD AND READ THOSE CONSIDERATION OF THE APPLICATION TO CCM ENGINEERING, REQUESTING APPROVAL OF A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT TO A PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT TO ALLOW FOR SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED TOWNHOUSE HOUSES. THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 2126 ROLLA ROAD ITEM TWO. THE CONSIDERATION OF THE APPLICATION IS CCM ENGINEERING, REQUESTING APPROVAL OF A DETAILED PLAN FOR SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED HOMES. TOWNHOUSES. THIS PROPERTY IS ALSO LOCATED AT 21, 26, WE'RE ALL AT ROAD AND TAKE IT AWAY. STAFF PRESENTATION. GOOD EVENING. THIS IS THE REQUEST AS STATED, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT 43 TOWN HOMES WITH AN OPEN SPACE AMENITY. JUST THE CASE INFORMATION. [00:05:01] THIS THE CITY BY LOCATION MAP, THE STAR REPRESENTS THE GENERAL AREA OF THE PROJECT. THIS IS THE LOCATION MAP. THE PROPERTY IS OUTLINED UNTIL, AND THIS PROPERTY IS SURROUNDED BY, UM, DIFFERENT DISTRICTS. UM, ONE IS, UM, AGRICULTURE, WHICH IS SHOWN HERE. AND THIS SITE IS DEVELOPED WITH A SINGLE FAMILY HOME TO THE SOUTH IS ALSO A ZONE AGRICULTURE AND IS, UM, DEVELOPED WITH A CHURCH. UM, THEN WE HAVE A PD 72 14, WHICH IS DEVELOPED WITH SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES. THE PD OH 6 0 5 IS A NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICE USE AND IS DEVELOPED WITH A SINGLE FAMILY HOME. SF 10 IS DEVELOPED WITH A EVENT CENTER, C R IS DEVELOPED WITH A SKATING RINK. AND THEN THE IS DEVELOPED WITH A, UM, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED. THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN RECOMMENDS COMPACT NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT MEETS THE, UM, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ALONG WITH THE SURROUNDING AREAS. OKAY KNOW THE PHOTOS OF THE AREA. THIS IS THE SUBJECT SITE. THIS IS THE AGRICULTURE DISTRICT WITH THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME OVER HERE IN THE CORNER, SINCE THE CHURCH, SINGLE FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOME THAT IS IN A NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICE USE PD AND THE EVENT CENTER. THIS IS THE SITE PLAN THAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED. UM, AS I MENTIONED, UM, THE APPLICANT IS PROVIDING 43 SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED TOWNHOME UNITS, AND IT OPENS SPACE AMENITY ON THIS OPEN SPACE AMENITY, UM, WOULD BE MAINTAINED BY THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING DEVIATIONS WITH THIS REQUEST FOR THE LOT AREA. THE SFA DISTRICT REQUIRES 2000 SQUARE FEET AND THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING 1,925 SQUARE FEET. THE PROPOSED LOTS RANGE FROM 1,925 SQUARE FEET TO 4,000 AND 117 SQUARE FEET. THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT IS 2,327 SQUARE FEET. THE APPLICANT IS ALSO REQUESTING FOR A DEVIATION IN THE DEPTH LOT. DEB, UM, THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT FOR US TO FATE IS 90 FEET AND THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING 75 FEET IN THE AVERAGE LOT PROPOSED FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT IS 99 FEET. UM, IN ADDITION, IN ADDITION, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING FOR A DEVIATION FOR THE NUMBER OF UNITS. UM, AS PER THE GDC, THE SFA DISTRICT, UH, REQUIRES A MINIMUM OF THREE AND A MAX OF SIX UNITS ATTACHED. AND THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A DEVIATION FOR THESE TWO UNITS, LOTS 17, 18, 19 AND 20. AND THESE WOULD FUNCTION AS A DUPLEX. IS THIS THE SITE PLAN THAT THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING? THEY ARE MEETING ALL THE REQUIREMENTS AS PER THE GARLAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. UM, SCREENING WELL IS REQUIRED FOR A, UM, DEVELOPMENT THAT IS, UM, ALONG A THERAPY FOR TYPE D R GREATER, UH, WHICH RAW LAD ROAD AND ONE ROAD OR BOTH, UM, IT'S HEIGHTENED D OR LARGER. I'M SORRY, THE APPLICANT IS PROVIDING A SCREENING WALL ALONG THOSE, UM, THOSE TWO RIGHT OF WAYS. THIS IS THE FENCE AND WALL OR PLAN THAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED. SO THIS, UH, PURPLE FENCE SHOWS, UM, IS THE SIX FOOT ARM FENCE WITH A MASONRY COLUMN ALONG THIS RIGHT AWAY. AND THE RED REPRESENTS THE [00:10:01] SIX FOOT MASONRY WALL AND THE YELLOW LINE REPRESENTS A SIX FOOT WOOD FENCE WITH A CAP AND METAL POST. THIS DEVELOPMENT. UM, ALSO HAS AN AMENITY ON SITE, WHICH THE APPLICANT IS MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS AS PER THE GDC. THEY HAVE PROVIDED A FOREFOOT, UM, WALKING PATHS SHOWN HERE ALONG WITH A GRILL PICNIC TABLES, TRASH RECEPTACLES, AND THEN ALSO BENCHES. UM, THIS AREA, UM, IS CREATING A SPACE FOR RESIDENTS TO SOCIALIZE OUTSIDE OF THEIR HOMES. THESE ARE THE ELEVATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED. THESE ARE, THIS IS THE FRONT ELEVATION AND THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING FOR A DEVIATION IN REGARDS TO THE GARAGES, UM, AS PER THE GDC, UM, GARAGE REAR ENTRY AND ALL SET FIVE FEET FROM FRONT BUILDING FACE AND FOR THE MIDDLE UNITS B, WHICH ARE SHOWN HERE, THESE TWO LITTLE UNITS, ALL SET FRONT ENTRY WITH GARAGE DOORS SETBACK, AT LEAST FIVE FEET BEHIND THE BUILDING FACADE. AND THEN FOR THE END UNITS, THE APPLICANT IS NOT PROVIDING A SETBACK FOR THE GARAGE. UM, FACADE. I HAVE HER THE ARE MEETING THE 20 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. THIS IS THE REAR ELEVATION SIDE ELEVATIONS SHOWING THE MIDDLE UNITS. THERE'S A 3D ELEVATION. SO ON THE IN UNITS, AND THEN ALSO THE MIDDLE UNITS, THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDINGS, UM, MEET THE BUILDING DESIGN REGULATIONS AS PER THE GDC. AND THE APPLICANT IS NOT PROPOSING A DIVISION SIGN WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT ON, BUT IF THERE WAS A SIGN IN THE FEATURE, THEN THEY WILL BE MEETING THE GDC REQUIREMENTS, IMPORT ELEVATIONS. THIS IS A SUMMARY OF THE DEVIATIONS. AS MENTIONED EARLIER, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A DEVIATION FROM THE, FOR THE LIGHT LOT AREA UP THERE, THE GARAGES, AND THEN ALSO THE ATTACHED NOTES. THE APPLICANT IS ALSO REQUESTING AN ALLIE WAIVER. THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT REVIEWED AND FOUND THAT THE LAYOUT IS CONDUCIVE TO ADEQUATE DRAINAGE, UM, MEETING THE CITY REQUIREMENTS. STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS, UH, APPROVAL OF ONE, A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT TO PLAN DEVELOPMENT, DISTRICT FOUR SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED TOWNHOME UNITS, AND TWO, A ALLIE WAIVER. AND THE STAFF ALSO RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF A DETAILED PLAN FOR SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED HOME UNITS ON A PROPERTY IS ON AGRICULTURE DISTRICT. WE MAILED OUT 72 NOTIFICATION LETTERS. WE RECEIVED THREE IN FAVOR OF THE NOTIFICATION INSIDE THE NORMAL VACATION AREA. AND THEN WE ALSO RECEIVED ONE AGAINST, UM, INSIDE THE NOTIFICATION AREA. THE TOTAL RESPONSES WE RECEIVED WAS FOUR THAT CONCLUDES STAFF PRESENTATION SCREEN BACK. AND BEFORE WE START THE COMMISSIONER PARIS, ARE YOU DULY SWORN IN NOW? YES, I AM. THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO ALL SIX OF OUR VIEWERS, SHE IS NEW FROM DISTRICT THREE AND WE'RE GLAD TO HER A BOARD. THANK YOU. GLAD TO BE HERE. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ANY QUESTIONS ON? OKAY. I SEE A HANDWRITTEN. SOMEBODY [00:15:01] KNOWS HOW TO RAISE THEIR HAND HERE. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER LUCK. AND THEN, UH, DID YOU RAISE YOUR HAND COMMISSIONER DALTON TWO AND THEN COMMISSIONER ROSE, GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER. UM, SO THE HOA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING THE AMENITY AREA, BUT ARE THEY ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING THE FENCING? UH, TYPICALLY, TYPICALLY, YES. UH, BECAUSE IT SHOULD, ALL THE FENCING SHOULD BE IN AN EASEMENT AND DON'T CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. IT SHOULD BE IN AN EASEMENT MAINTENANCE EASEMENT THAT ALLOWS THE HOA TO MAINTAIN IT. I THINK THAT STANDARD POLICY IN ANY SUBDIVISION NOW. OKAY. AND HOW MANY OF THE, UH, OF THE SMALLER AVERAGE HOME? SO THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE IS 2327. HOW MANY OF THE HOMES UNDER 23, 27 WILL BE PART OF THAT 43 UNITS? IS THAT THE HOME SIZE OR LOT SIZE? I BELIEVE IT'S THE, UH, PROPOSED LOT SIZE. OKAY. I ACTUALLY HAVE THAT NUMBER. I CALCULATED THAT IF YOU'LL LET ME, UH, MR. DERRICK, UH, 18.6% OF THE LOTS ARE BELOW 2000 SQUARE FEET. AND MAYBE TO YOUR NEXT QUESTION, 76% OF THEM ARE SHORTER THAN 90 FEET. OKAY. I'M, I'M A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED ABOUT THE AESTHETICS OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT. UM, I, I THINK THEY COULD DO A LITTLE MORE TO MAKE IT, UM, MORE APPEALING. IT'S MY OPINION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER DOLAN. HAD YOU RAISED YOUR HAND? NOPE. OKAY. COMMISSIONER ROSE. OKAY. SO IF I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY, THIS WILL BE A MANDATORY HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION ALL WILL HAVE TO BELONG. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SECONDLY, IF YOU GO TO A SITE PLAN TO SHOW, THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT WERE LOTS 20 THROUGH 23 SIT. THERE'S A GREAT BIG VACANT AREA BEHIND IT. WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT? ARE YOU REFERENCING TO THE DETENTION POND? I CAN'T HEAR YOU. SORRY. YOU'RE REFERENCING TO THE DETENTION POND. NOPE. OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LODGE LONG WRONG ROAD. YEAH. RIGHT AT THE CORNER. YEAH. THEY'VE GOT A PATH THROUGH THERE AND NO, NO, NO. IT DOESN'T SHOW ANY KIND OF A PATH AT ALL. OKAY. THERE YOU GO. THERE YOU GO. SAY 20 THROUGH 23, WHAT IT SHOWS THE LOT'S GOING ALL THE WAY BACK. IS THAT, WHAT IS THAT? YEAH. ALL THAT. THERE YOU GO. UM, INDIVIDUAL LOTS FOR THE, UM, THOSE HOME, UH, POTENTIAL HOMEOWNERS. SO THOSE LOTS GO ALL THE WAY BACK. THAT'S CORRECT. OH MY GOODNESS. ALL RIGHT. THANKS. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? COMMISSIONER OD. THANK YOU, MS. CHERON. UM, UH, THE AMENITY AREA, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A SHADE STRUCTURE ON THAT, LIKE PERGOLA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THERE'S NOT A STRAIGHT, UM, SHADE STRUCTURE ON THE SIDE OF THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING, BUT THEY ARE PROPOSING, UH, A VARIETY OF LARGE CANOPY TREES. OKAY. UM, ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I HAD, IS THERE A EXISTING SIDEWALK THAT GOES ALL THE WAY AROUND THIS PROJECT OR WILL THEY BE REQUIRED TO HAVE ONE THE WALKING PATH THAT THEY ARE PROPOSING? IT CONNECTS TO THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT. OKAY. BUT THERE'S SOMETHING FOR THE PUBLIC TO BE ABLE TO GO AROUND THIS PROJECT, CORRECT? YES. ALONG THE RIGHT OF WAY. OKAY. AND I THINK THE REST THAT I ALSO SHARE, UH, COMMISSIONER LOCKS, UM, I, I'M NOT INSPIRED BY ALL THE GARAGE DOORS THAT I SEE IN THERE, BUT I'LL HOLD. SO THAT'S WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT THAT WITH THE APPLICANTS. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS AS USUAL I'VE GOT, I'VE GOT MY FEW, SOME OF THE QUESTIONS OF STAFF. OTHERS WILL JUST BE SOME COMMENTS MAYBE THAT CAN ADDRESS. UH, I NOTICED ALONG THE LOCKS TOO. AND I WONDER IF THOSE WERE JUST PUT IN THERE TO BRING THE AVERAGE LIFE DEPTHS UP TO 99 FEET, OR IF THERE A REASON THAT THEY'RE EXTENDED LIKE THAT, OTHERWISE THEY COULD EXTEND THE GREEN SPACE FOR FOLKS AND POSSIBLY EVEN CUT THE WALL ON A CORNER. WE'VE [00:20:01] HEARD A LOT ABOUT TRAFFIC ISSUES OUT THERE AND NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE AROUND A CORNER. MAYBE THERE COULD BE A 45 MINUTE PORTION WITH THE WALL AND EVERYTHING, WHICH WOULD OPEN UP THE SITE LINES, WHICH I'M ASSUMING TRAFFIC DIDN'T LOOK AT THIS AND HAVE THEY APPROVED ALL THE SIGHT LINES AT THE CORNER? EVERYTHING. DO YOU KNOW MR. HARE? YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT. TRANSPORTATION. UM, AND, UM, AND PASS THIS ALONG TOWARDS THE PUBLIC HEARING. YEAH. YEAH. CAUSE THAT, UH, I DON'T LOOK DOWN THERE, BUT I'VE DRIVEN DOWN THERE ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT PIECE OF ROLAND ROAD IS CUT THROUGH FROM ONE AREA TO ANOTHER AND A TON OF HOUSES EMPTY ONTO THERE. AND IF THE CORNER'S DANGEROUS, ANYTHING CAN DO WITH WHAT ELSE, IF THIS DOES PASS, UH, THEY'RE SHOWING 25 FOOT WIDTH, LOTS, THE MINIMUM ALLOWED IS 20 FOOT WIDTH. AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CONDITION ADDED TO THE PD REQUIRING THE 25 FOOT WIDTH. SO THEY DON'T COME BACK LATER WITH THE DETAILED PLAN WITH 2322 FEET, WHICH WE WOULD HAVE TO PROVE BECAUSE OF IT STILL BE TECHNICALLY CORRECT. SO I THINK A 25 FOOT LOT WOULD, WOULD MAKE A GOOD ADDITION TO THE PD. UH, I'D ASKED STAFF EARLIER ABOUT THE LANDSCAPING AT THE RIDER OFFENSE. I'VE HEARD COMPLAINTS ABOUT SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENTS ALONG, UH, CENTERVILLE. AND SO THEY ARE PLANTING TREES THERE AND EVERYTHING, BUT WE COULD RECOMMEND EVERGREEN SHRUBS IN FRONT OF THE ROD IRON. AND IT WAS ALSO POSSIBLY SUGGESTED THAT SINCE THERE ARE BUGS ATTACKING ASH TREES, THAT WE MAYBE ASKED STAFF TO WORK WITH THEM ON THE LANDSCAPE PLANT, SWITCH OUT THE ASH TREES. SO THEY DON'T DIE IN A FEW YEARS. UH, LET'S SEE, TALKING ABOUT THE GARAGE DOORS, THEY OFFERED TO MAKE THEM, UH, AS ONE OF THE AMENITIES, CARRIAGE STYLE DOORS. I'D LIKE TO SEE IT PD CONDITION AT THEIR ALL WOOD STYLE CARRIAGE DOORS. THAT WOULD LOOK NICE, UH, ON THAT FIRST SET OF DUPLEXES WHERE THERE TWO UNITS, THEY COULD ELIMINATE THOSE THAT DUPLEX BY ADDING ONE UNIT TO EAT TWO OF THE BUILDINGS JUST TO LEFT IN TOWNHOMES, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO TO A MAXIMUM OF SIX UNITS WIDE AND ALL THOSE BUILDINGS ARE FIVE UNITS WIDE. SO THAT COULD BE ACCOMMODATED IN THAT WAY. UH, LET'S SEE. I DO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION TO STAFF HERE. YOU BROUGHT UP SOMETHING, UH, YOU, YOU SAID IT MEETS ALL THE GDC GUIDELINES. IS THERE AN ARTICULATION REQUIREMENT IN AN OUT WHEN A BUILDING FACES THE STREET BECAUSE THE BUILDINGS BACK ON THE WRONG ROAD, IT, AND THAT IT'S JUST A STRAIGHT ELEVATION AND I'VE DONE TOWN HOMES BEFORE WE WOULD PUSH IT UP OR PUT SOME BACK AND GET SOME INTEREST GOING. SO I DUNNO IF THERE'S A REQUIREMENT, A LONG ROAD, WRONG ROAD FOR, YOU KNOW, EVERY SO OFTEN SOMETHING HAS TO BE PUSHED OUT OF PERSPECTIVE. UH, I KNOW THERE ISN'T A COMMERCIAL, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT APPLIES TO RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. I'M WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT. I'LL GET BACK WITH YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, CORRECT. AND THEY'RE ALL FLAT AND THEY DO FACE WRONG ROADS. SO THERE'S NO ARTICULATION IN THAT. WHICH AGAIN, I THINK IS A REQUIREMENT. I DIDN'T THINK OF IT EARLIER. OTHERWISE I WOULD'VE CHECKED IT MYSELF. UH, OKAY. AND I SEE, AND THIS IS THE ARCHITECT IN ME. I SEE AN ORDER TO MEET THAT FIVE FOOT SETBACK. THEY'RE BRINGING THE ENTRY DOORS, HAVE FIVE FEET IN FRONT OF THE GARAGES. WELL, INSIDE OF THE UNIT, THAT'LL MAKE, MAKE IT ABOUT, UH, A FOUR FOOT BY 20 FOOT HALLWAY TO GET BACK INTO THE UNIT. SO THAT'S JUST AN OBSERVATION THERE. AND ALSO IN A SITE PLAN, THE WAITER SITE PLAN IS LAID OUT NOW, AS THEY HAVE DEPICTED THE FOOTPRINTS OF THE UNIT, THEY DO NOT MEET THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS. UM, AND I THINK STAFF IS GOING TO GET WITH THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SITE PLAN IS CORRECTED IF WE APPROVED THAT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT SHOW ANY OF THOSE PORCHES ON IT. IT SHOWS ALL THE GARAGES RIGHT OUT OF THE 20 FOOT SETBACK. SO STEP TWO, THAT'S MY SHORT LIST. SORRY, SORRY TO DO THAT TO YOU. COMMISSIONER ROSE AS PART OF THE, UH, MANDATORY HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. WELL, THERE'LL BE A REQUIREMENT TO HAVE IRRIGATION FOR ALL THIS LANDSCAPING. THAT'S A REQUIREMENT. THAT'S A REQUIREMENT FOR ANY LANDSCAPING PLAN, A COMMERCIAL OR MULTI-FAMILY. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEAH. [00:25:01] ANY OTHER QUESTIONS STAFF, IF CHAIRMAN, YEAH. SORRY. I'M JUST GETTING BACK TO YOU ON YOUR QUESTION. DOES IT LOOK LIKE ANY FACADE THAT FACES A PUBLIC STREET ABOVE THE FIRST STORY I'M USED TO AVOID? JUST COMPLETELY FLAT ARTICULATION SO WE CAN, UM, MAKE SURE THAT'S CLEAR TO THE APPLICANT AND THE PD CONDITIONS, THAT SORT OF THING. IF THEY NEED TO MAKE ANY CHANGES, UM, WE CAN HAVE THEM DO STUFF. SO THE DETAILED PLAN ANSWER THIS NOW DOES NOT MEET THE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS AND ARTICULATION AND, UH, EITHER ON THE FRONT OR THE BACK, SO THAT IF IT IS APPROVED, IT'S APPROVED WITH THE PROVISION THAT THEY MEET THE ARTICULATION ARTICULATION. I KNOW THE APPLICANT HAS NOT REQUESTED DEVIATIONS FROM THE BUILDING DESIGN STANDARDS OTHER THAN, UM, UM, THE GARAGE IN FEDERAL OFFSET SETTLEMENT AND UNITS. UM, BUT, UH, BUT JUST SO IT'S CLEAR ON THE ELEVATIONS, WE, WE DID ASK FOR SOME VARIETY IN THE ELEVATIONS JUST TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE MEETING THE SPIRIT OF THAT GDC REQUIREMENT AND THAT SORT OF THING. BUT IF WE, WE NEED TO HAVE THEM TWEAK THE REAR ELEVATION. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHTY. I BELIEVE THE AFRICANS HERE. UH, UM, BOY, EVEN WITH NAMES TYPED OUT, I MISPRONOUNCED NAMES, UH, UH, YACKO LAPTOP. WE HAVE A COMMISSIONER'S QUESTION. OH, WHERE I MISSED IT. WHICH, WHICH COMMISSIONER ME, YOU IGNORING ME. OH, YOU'RE BEHIND MY CAMERA. I'M SORRY. MY CAMERA SITS RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY SCREEN. AND THERE'S USUALLY IT'S COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER, JACOBS BEHIND CAMERA. AND YOU KNOW THAT RIGHT RIGHT NOW BEHIND THE CAMERAS. YEAH. COMMISSIONER, I MOVE OVER AND I CAN SEE YOU NOW. THANK YOU. ON THE ARTICULATION ON THE BACK. THAT'S THE ONLY PORTION I BELIEVED IT IS A TRANSPARENT, IT'S A IRON FENCING. UM, DOES THE AMENITY AREA COVER ANY OF THAT? UH, THE BACK OF THE HOUSES IS MANY OF THE AREA GOING TO BLOCK ANY OF THE VIEWS SO THAT OUR CALCULATION IS NOT AN ISSUE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. NUMBER TWO, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. WHAT IS TRAFFIC'S ESTIMATED NUMBER OF TRIPS PER RESIDENTIAL HOME OR TOWNHOME? IT WILL BE COMING IN AND OUT OF THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD BE DAILY TRIPS. UM, YES, I, I CAN ADDRESS THOSE TWO. SO ON THE SITE PLAN, IT DOES SHOW THE, UM, THE TRANSPARENT ORNAMENTAL FENCE JUST ALONG THE AMENITY AREA. NOT MISTAKE IN THE MASONRY WALL ALONG RUN ROAD WOULD BE UP AGAINST THE BACKS OF THE HOMES THAT ARE CLOSEST TO OWN ROAD. UM, SO IT, UM, APPEARS GIVEN THE SETBACK OF THE, HOW WAS THAT WOULD HAVE THE ORNAMENTAL FENCE LONG RUN ROAD. THERE, THERE IS THE MEN OF THE AREA. SO THERE, THERE WOULD BE SOME SETBACK THERE. UM, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS THE APPLICANT COULD MAKE SURE TO PLANT ADDITIONAL TREES IN THAT AREA TO MAKE SURE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, EVERGREEN SHRUBS AS THE, AS THE CHAIRMAN'S THAT ARE AWARE OF THOSE TEND TO KEEP THEIR WAVES YEAR ROUND, UM, PROVIDE SOME, SOME OPAQUE, UH, UH, FEATURES TO THEM. UM, MR. SECOND QUESTION, I BELIEVE MR. LOOKY IS ON THE, UH, COLUMN. IF HE'S, IF HE'S LISTENING, HE'LL BE ABLE TO TUNE. AND I BELIEVE WHAT I DO KNOW IS THE, UM, DEVELOPMENT DID NOT QUITE MEET THE THRESHOLD FOR A FULL ON TIA REQUIREMENT. UM, GIVEN IT'S 43 LOTS. UM, BUT HERE, HERE, IT LOOKS LIKE MR. BURKEY'S HERE NOW. SO LET HIM EXPLAIN FURTHER. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU'LL GO AHEAD AND UNMUTE YOURSELF. OKAY. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YEAH. CAN YOU HEAR YOU NOW? THANK YOU. OKAY. YES. SO I THINK THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF TRIPS, I GUESS IT WOULD BE WHAT WOULD BE THE NUMBER OF TRIPS IN AND OUT OF THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT? JUST AS AN AVERAGE, NOT NECESSARILY ANYTHING THAT WAS LOOKED AT, I'M LOOKING MORE AT AN AVERAGE. I MEAN, TYPICALLY WE SEE ABOUT, UH, ABOUT 10 TRIPS PER DAY FROM A, FROM A, SO THERE'S 43 HOUSES. IT'D BE ABOUT FOUR 30 TRIPS IN A DAY. 10% OF THAT HAPPENS IN THE PEAK HOURS. SO THAT'S ABOUT FOUR TRIPS IN THE PEAK HOUR. RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. [00:30:05] ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NOT LET'S BRING HIM OUT. I DO HAVE ONE MORE THING. I'M SORRY, JUST TO ADDRESS ONE OF MY PLANNERS JUST REMINDED ME OF THAT ARTICULATION. IT MAY NOT BE A CONCERN HERE. I FORGOT ABOUT ONE ITEM. THAT WAS THAT IF, IF THERE ARE WINDOWS THAT THE TENANT OR CODE WAS MAYBE MAINLY TO AVOID FLAT BLANK WALLS, IF THERE ARE WINDOWS PROVIDING TRANSPARENCY THAT CAN, UM, THAT CAN HELP MEET THE ARTICULATION, UM, REQUIREMENTS. SO, UM, VERSUS JUST HAVING BLANK WALLS ALONG THE PUBLIC STREETS THAT WERE JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. YEAH. ALRIGHTY, LET'S GO TO THE APPLICANT, THEN UNMUTE YOURSELF. AND IF YOU WANT TO GET ON CAM, YOU CAN DO THAT TOO. AND WE NEED YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. FOR THE RECORD. MY NAME IS EAGLE. LAYLA ADDRESS IS 1900 MCKINNEY AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS 75 2 0 1. AND DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD OR A PRESENTATION OR ANYTHING, OR I WANTED TO START BY THANKING, UH, KIMBERLY AND ALL THE HARD WORK THAT SHE PUT INTO THIS. SHE DID AN EXCELLENT JOB. UM, WE HAD, UM, A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH AND, AND HOPEFULLY WE WERE ABLE TO, TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE CITY OF GARLAND. UM, WE ARE WILLING TO, UM, CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE CITY ON THE ITEMS THAT I'VE HEARD TONIGHT. UM, WE FEEL THIS IS A NICE ADDITION TO THE CITY. IT'S, UH, A BIT OF A BUFFER FROM DOING JUST STRAIGHT COMMERCIAL RIGHT NEXT TO THE HOMES THAT ARE ALREADY THERE. UM, BECAUSE THAT CORNER, I THINK COULD BE A COMMERCIAL CORNER, BUT WE LOOKED AT IT AND THOUGHT TOWNHOMES WOULD MAKE A BETTER BUFFER. UM, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD OTHER THAN WE ARE EAGER AND WILLING TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE CITY ON THE DESIGN, ON THE PLAN, UM, ON THE, ON THE PARK STRUCTURES AND SO ON. SO IT'S SOMETHING WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO LOOK AT WITH THE CITY. ALRIGHTY. ANY QUESTIONS OF THE, YEAH, SORRY FOR BUTCHERING YOUR NAME, BUT YOU WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST. ALRIGHTY, THANK YOU. AND STAY TUNED CITIZENS. WE'LL ASK YOU BACK IF THERE'S ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHTY. AND WE HAVE, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE WILL COME FIRST AND MIKE WESTLING OR JASON BROOKS, ARE THEY BOTH UP HERE? LET'S SEE. OKAY. I SEE A ONE RAISED HAND HERE. GO AHEAD AND MUTE, SIR. GO AHEAD. I HEAR MICROPHONE. UM, MR. BROOKS, I DON'T HEAR YOU, SIR. STILL DON'T HEAR, HEAR TRACY WAS MISS MR. WEST LINGO SIGNED UP YET, OR LOOK OKAY, GO AHEAD AND TRY AGAIN. I SPEAK SOMEBODY RAISED THEIR HAND, BUT DON'T HAVE IT HERE. MR. BROOKS SHOWS THAT MICROPHONES LIVE, BUT WE DON'T HEAR YOU. THERE WE GO. OKAY. I'M SORRY. I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE. SO MY NAME'S JASON BROOKS. MY ADDRESS IS 38 0 5 CEDAR CREEK DRIVE. AND THAT'S HERE IN GARLAND A 7 5 0 4 3. UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I WANTED TO, UM, THIS IS MY FIRST TIME SPEAKING BEFORE THE COMMISSION. SO I APPRECIATE AGAIN, YOUR TIME, UM, WHAT THE, THE FORMS THAT WERE SENT IN. I WAS, UM, WHEN THE PLANNER WAS GIVING THE PRESENTATION, I KNOW PERSONALLY OF SEVERAL FORMS THAT WERE SITTING IN, IN OPPOSITION. SO I'M NOT SURE HOW, INCLUDING MY SMILE. UM, I'M JUST NOT SURE HOW THOSE ARE COUNTED OR WHAT THE TIMELINESS WAS. W WE ALL GOT THEM, WE ALL SAW AND IT'S TOUGH KEEPING UP WITH THE CAPSULE. WELL, I'M SURE I'M SURE. UM, WELL, SO WHAT I KIND OF WANTED TO JUST EXPLAIN, UM, AND I PERSONALLY HATE THE DEVELOPER BEING HERE AND, AND HIS WILLINGNESS TO, TO [00:35:01] LISTEN TO US AS WELL AS AGAIN, THE COMMISSIONER, THE COMMISSIONERS, UM, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG MOST OF YOU HAVE BEEN IN GARLAND, WENT BACK TO THE 1980S, DANNY FAULKNER, AND HIS ASSOCIATES WANTED TO BUILD APARTMENTS IN THIS SAME AREA. AND WE THOUGHT TO KEEP IT FROM HAPPENING BACK THEN. AND THAT BACK THEN I WAS A CHILD, BUT MY DAD OWNED THE HOUSE I LIVE IN NOW. AND SO WHEN I SAY WE, I JUST MEAN AS A GENERALITY IS THE CITIZENS THAT LIVE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, NO ONE WHILE THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT THE SAME THING. THE FACT REMAINS THAT THE CITIZENS WHO WOULD BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THIS CHANGE HAVE REALLY NOT HAD AN APPETITE FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING HOMES, PRETTY MUCH FOR OVER 40 YEARS NOW. UM, THERE ARE SEVERAL NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE WELL, ALL THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS, OTHER THAN COMMERCIAL. AND OF COURSE, LIKE VIEW HAVE BEEN, SO ARE ALL SINGLE DWELLING, YOU KNOW, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. AND IT ALSO INCLUDES A NEWER NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE SAME INTERSECTION, AS WELL AS THE NEARBY ROSE HILL ADDITION. AND I'M SURE YOU'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH, UM, AND MY OPINION FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH. I JUST THINK IT'S BETTER. IT WOULD BE BETTER SUITED FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. UM, OBVIOUSLY I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD DISAGREE THAT, THAT THERE'S, THERE'S NO ISSUE WITH THE MARKET. I MEAN, THE MARKET WAS CERTAINLY HOLDS SOME MORE HOMES. UM, AND THAT'S, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING ALONG THE SITE. AGAIN, I JUST, I HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD POTENTIALLY GIVE US MORE TIME TO, TO, TO BRING MORE PEOPLE TO A MEETING, TO, TO, TO SHOW THAT THE DISAGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE WITH THIS, BUT I OF COURSE RESPECT EVERYTHING YOU ALL DO. AND I RESPECT WHATEVER DECISION YOU MIGHT PUT IN. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME TO ANY, ANY QUESTIONS WITH THIS GENTLEMEN, I WILL POINT OUT THIS IS A TWO PHASE PROCESS WE ARE RECOMMENDING BY ONLY TO THE CITY CONSOLE. SO THERE'LL BE ANOTHER CHANCE TO APPROACH THE CITY COUNCIL AND GET MORE PEOPLE TO GET IN TO TALK ABOUT IT. UH, ONE THING THE APPLICANT DID POINT OUT IS THIS IS AGRICULTURAL ZONING, SO THAT LEAVES IT OPEN TO BEING REZONED, COMMERCIAL, RETAIL, AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO THERE ARE ALSO THOSE ALTERNATIVE, SOME BETTER THAN OTHERS THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION. AND, UH, BEFORE I ASK YOU BACK, LET ME SEE IF, UH, MR. UH, LIZ THINGS HERE. THERE HE IS. AND IF YOU'LL GO AHEAD AND UNMUTE YOURSELF, SARAH WILL. AND IF YOU WANT TO SHOW US YOUR FACE, WE'LL, WE'LL DO THAT TOO. BUT, UH, NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE, YOU COULD SEE THE FACE IF I KNEW WHAT I WAS DOING HERE, BUT ANYWAY, UM, TO MR. BROOKS, HIS POINT, UH, I'VE LIVED IN MY HOUSE. I'M AT 38 0 4 WHITE ROCK TRAIL, AND I'VE LIVED IN THE HOUSE, UH, SINCE 1976. SO I'VE SEEN ROWAN ROAD GO FROM A TWO LANE BAR DITCH ROAD TO FOUR LANE DIVIDED, SEE RALEIGH ROAD CHANGE, UM, USED TO TAKE ROSE HILL CUT THROUGH TO GET OVER TO BROADWAY, UM, BACK TO WHEN I FIRST BOUGHT MY HOME. BUT ANYWAY, UM, I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF ISSUES HERE. ONE, IF YOU, UM, YOU LOOK AT THE RESIDENTS ON ROWAN ROAD, MOST OF THOSE HAVE, UM, UH, MASONRY WALLS THAT ARE IN BAD NEED OF REPAIR. AND I THINK YOU GUYS ARE YOU MAYBE NOT, BUT THE CITY IS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN, UH, THE ONES DOWN, UM, PASS WATER VIEW, UH, BETWEEN WATER VIEW AND, UH, AND THE HIGHWAY. UM, SO HERE WE GO WITH ANOTHER S ANOTHER RESONANCE OR ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT WITH, UH, MASONRY WALLS. UM, I SUSPECT HOA DOWN THE STREET WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE THEN, AND EVEN WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT GOING ON HERE. AND HE SAID HOA WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE. UM, THEY STILL SEEM TO FALL IN DISREPAIR. UM, THERE WAS A QUESTION RAISED ABOUT SIDEWALKS. THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS ON THAT SIDE ROWING OR RALEIGH ROAD SIDEWALK. YOU JUST WENT IN ON ROWAN MODE ON MY SIDE OF THE STREET, UM, JUST IN THE RECENT CONSTRUCTION THAT WAS DONE TO REPLACE, I THINK, SEWER LINES OR WATER LINES DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF ROWAN ROAD. SO THERE ARE NO WALKS, UM, ON THAT SIDE FOR THAT DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE THOSE THERE. I WILL SAY THAT, BUT, UH, THERE ARE WALKS NOW ON MY SIDE OF THE STREET. UM, I, I THINK TRAFFIC IS GOING TO BE A HUGE PROBLEM GUYS. UH, LADIES, IF YOU LOOK AT TRAFFIC ON ROWAN AND ROWLETT ROAD DURING RUSH HOURS, UM, IT'S BACKED UP COMING OUT OF RAW LEAD. IT'S BACKED UP COMING DOWN ROWAN ROAD FROM , IT'S BACKED UP, COMING DOWN RAUL AT ROAD FROM, UM, FROM BROADWAY. UM, AND WITH ONLY TWO INGRESSIVES INTO THAT DEVELOPMENT, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE NOTHING [00:40:01] BUT TRAFFIC BACKUP AT THAT INTERSECTION WITH PEOPLE TRYING TO GET IN. UM, ALSO, I'M NOT SURE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO GET ACROSS, UH, ROWAN ROAD, UH, WITHOUT A NEW CURB CUT INTO, UM, WHAT YOU SHOWN ON YOUR SITE PLAN. SO, UM, I THINK AT SOME YOU GUYS GOTTA LOOK AT, AND THERE'S GOTTA BE A BETTER WAY. I'M A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT SOME MASONRY, SOME, UH, UH, SOME METAL FENCE ALONG ROWAN. UH, WE THINK WE'D BE BETTER SERVED TO HAVE IT ALL THE SAME. UH, AND I THINK LET'S BE REAL CANDID. THIS TOWNHOUSE ADDITION IS NOTHING MORE THAN, UH, APARTMENTS, 43 APARTMENTS. THERE'S NOTHING SINGLE-FAMILY ABOUT THEM. UM, SO I'M OPPOSED TO IT, MY NEIGHBORS OPPOSED TO IT. I KNOW. UM, SO WE'D LIKE TO SEE IT, UH, WE'D LIKE TO SEE A SINGLE FAMILY ACROSS THE BOARD AS MR. BROOKE SAID. AND THAT'S ABOUT MY TWO BITS, ANY QUESTIONS OF MR. WESTLAND CHAIRMAN? I DID WANT TO CLARIFY ONE THING FROM EARLIER AND ACTUALLY THE FIRST GENTLEMEN, UH, SPOKE ON IT. I, I KNOW THE PLANNERS AND ALL OF US WERE READING FROM ALL THE DIFFERENT CASES AND LOOKING AT A LOT OF NUMBERS HERE, BUT, UH, THE GENTLEMEN WAS TALKING ABOUT THE RESPONSES AND THE NUMBERS, AND YOU'VE GOT THEM ALL IN YOUR PACKETS, BUT JUST WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR FOR THE RECORD WE DID RECEIVE, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE THREE IN, BUT A 24 AN OPPOSITION, SO THAT THOSE ARE IN YOUR PACKETS. JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR FOR THE RECORD. AND THERE'S A COMBINATION IN 24 WITHIN AN UPSIDE, BUT THAT'S CORRECT. I'M COMBINING THE TWO. IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WERE 13 WITHIN A LIFE OUTSIDE. YES, SIR. THANK YOU. ALRIGHTY. UH, CHRISTY, DO WE HAVE ANYBODY ELSE IN A PUBLIC AUDIENCE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS SIDE? WE DO. SO WE HAVE SEVERAL, THE FIRST ONE WILL BE ANGELA ALCORN. OKAY, ANGELA. HELLO? HELLO. HI. UM, SO MY NAME IS ANGELA ALCORN AND, UM, I'M HERE ACTUALLY REPRESENTING, UM, MY MOTHER NATIN KENNEDY WHO LIVES AT 38 0 2 BROWN CIRCLE. SHE, UM, IS 86 AND SHE'S LIVED IN THAT HOME SINCE I BELIEVE 1979. I WAS, I THINK, NINE AT THAT TIME. UM, BUT JUST LIKE SOME OF THE OTHER, UM, PEOPLE HAVE SAID MY CONCERN FOR MANY, BUT ONE IS THE FACT THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS WISHED THAT A PARK WOULD GO UP THERE. WE HAD HOPED, YOU KNOW, BACK WHEN IT WAS, UH, UH, TO, YOU KNOW, THAT TWO LANE BLACKTOP ROAD WHERE YOU HAD TO DRIVE IN DOWN THE HILL TO EVEN GET INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, MY CONCERN IS ALSO THE, THE WALL, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WET IS DOWN. UM, I CAN'T THINK OF THE NAME OF THE INTERSECTION, BUT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, UM, GOING TOWARDS I 30, WHERE THE WALL IS COLLAPSING. IT'S JUST, UM, IT'S JUST A HUGE EYESORE AND THIS PROPERTY THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING OUT IS LITERALLY THE DRIVEWAY IS AT MY MOTHER'S DOOR. MY MOTHER LIVES ON THE CORNER OF ROTTEN ROAD AND RUNS CIRCLE. AND, UM, THE TRAFFIC THAT WOULD BUILD UP THERE, IT WAS THERE A LIGHT THAT WOULD GO UP. I MEAN, HOW, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO CONTROL THE TRAFFIC THAT ALREADY BACKS UP, YOU KNOW, COMING THROUGH TO THAT, TO GET TO ROAM ROAD, JUST BECAUSE LIKE WE'VE SAID, IT IS A CUT-THROUGH, IT'S A KATHRYN, WHEN YOU HAVE 43, UH, UNITS VERSUS STUDENTS, SINGLE HOUSING UNITS, THAT'S NOT GOING TO CREATE SO MUCH TRAFFIC, IF IT'S JUST A PROBLEM. I SEE, YOU KNOW, IF THEY DON'T BUILD UP A RETAINER THAT IS MAINTAINED AND IT IS GOING TO BE SUCH A HORRIBLE ICE OR TO LOOK OUT HER DOOR AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT SHE'S GOING TO SEE EVERY DAY. AND THEN MYSELF AS WELL, WHEN, WHEN I HAVE HER HOME AFTER SHE'S, YOU KNOW, AFTER SHE'S GONE, UM, THE HOME VALUE OF HER HOME IS NOT GOING TO STAY AT TO WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW. IF, IF THIS, IF, IF THIS COMES ALONG IN, IN THE, PROPERTY'S NOT, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T HAVE A NICE TO SIDE, IT DOES. IT, IT DOESN'T LOOK WELL, I THINK THEY CAN DO BETTER ON, ON THE WAY THAT IT ACTUALLY IS IN AN APPEARANCE AS FAR AS, AS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE FACADE OF IT. UM, AND I HAVE OTHER CONCERNS AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THE IRRIGATION AND, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IS IT GOING TO BE COSMETICALLY, NICE LOOKING THROUGH THERE, BUT A BIG PART OF IT IS GOING TO BE THE TRAFFIC THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TURN AROUND AND MAKE A TURNING CARS THAT TURN INTO THAT. NEIGHBORHOOD'S GOING TO BE RIGHT THERE AT MY MOTHER'S DOOR. UM, [00:45:02] LET ME SEE, LET ME LOOK AT MY NOTES AGAIN, I'M HERE. AND HOW HIGH WILL THAT WALL BE? IS THAT WALL GOING TO BE HIGH ENOUGH TO WHERE WE'RE, WE'RE NOT HIGHER THAN THE OTHER ONES THAT WE'RE SEEING DOWN THE ROAD THAT ARE COLLAPSING? UM, JUST, JUST ABOUT WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE IS, IS, IS AN ISSUE IS AN ISSUE TO ME IN MY MOTHER AS WELL. UH, WOULD THEY PUT A LIGHT AT THAT ENTRANCE? IS THAT GONNA, YOU KNOW, IF THEY, IF THEY TURN AROUND AND PUT THAT AS A TURN IN TO GO IN, ARE THEY GONNA STOP TRAFFIC AT THAT RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET TO RAUL AT ROAD? AND THERE'LL BE A TURN IN THERE AS WELL? UM, ANOTHER, UM, ISSUE I HAVE, UM, IS WHAT IS THE COST OF THESE UNITS GOING TO BE, ARE THESE GOING TO TURN INTO SECTION EIGHT? UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, UM, WE CAN TEND TO HAVE A HIGHER CRIME AND THE APARTMENTS THAT ARE JUST DOWN THE ROAD, UM, WHERE WE'VE RECENTLY SEEN MULTIPLE SHOOTINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND I'M NOT SAYING BECAUSE THAT'S SECTION EIGHT, BUT I'M JUST SAYING, I AM GLAD THAT IT'S NOT APARTMENTS, THAT I DON'T WANT IT TO TURN INTO TWO, THE COST OF THE SAME THING. IT WOULD BE AS IF IT WAS AN APARTMENT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A FAMILY, A SINGLE FAMILY UNITS BEING PUT IN THERE, OR IF THEY AREN'T GOING TO DO TOWNHOUSE, MAKE THEM NOT MAKE THEM, YOU KNOW, OUTRAGEOUS FOR PEOPLE TO PURCHASE, BUT NOT THE SAME AS SOMEBODY COMING IN AND RENTING AN APARTMENT. ARE THESE GONNA BE PURCHASED OR ARE THEY GOING TO BE RENTED? UM, I THINK THAT MAKES A HUGE, HUGE DIFFERENCE. I THINK IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THAT. UM, AND REALLY, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I HAVE IS THAT IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST A CONCERN WE'VE SEEN THAT LOT OPEN FOR, YOU KNOW, I MEAN MY ENTIRE LIFE, I'M 50 YEARS OLD WHEN WE MOVED IN THERE WHEN I WAS NINE. AND, UM, WE ALWAYS HOPE THAT A PARK WOULD COME IN TO BE QUITE HONEST. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING. I APPRECIATE IT. MATT MAY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU ON SOME OF THAT. UH, THE TOWNHOME HOMES, EXCUSE ME, OUR PLANTS ARE PLANTED ON INDIVIDUAL, LOTS MEANT FOR SALE. NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN LIKE, EVEN IN ANY NEIGHBORHOOD, SOMEBODY GOOD BUY A HOUSE AND THEN RENT IT. THAT SAME CONCEPT COULD HAPPEN HERE. IF SOMEBODY COULD PROBABLY COME IN AND BUY MULTIPLE ONES AND RENT IT OUT. SO IT CAN EITHER BE SINGLE FAMILY OR RENTAL, LIKE ANY NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S NOT ONE BUILDING THAT ONE PERSON WOULD BE BUYING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THEY ARE INDIVIDUAL UNITS, UH, IN TERMS OF, UH, UH, THE WALLS, SOME OF THEM CRUMBLING. I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY WHEN IT WAS EIGHTIES OR NINETIES, THAT THE CITY MANDATED HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS AND REQUIRED THEM TO MAINTAIN THE WALLS. THERE ARE A LOT OF SUBDIVISIONS THAT WENT IN WHERE THE HOMEOWNER, EACH INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNER WHO'S GOT TO WALK PORTION OF WALL BEHIND THEM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. AND THAT HAS PROVEN NOT TO WORK. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE CASE WITH WHERE THOSE WALLS ARE DAMAGED OR NOT. UH, THE CITY DOES TRY TO SOMETIMES PARTNER WITH FOLKS AND GET THE BALLS REPAIRED. THIS WOULD BE AN HOA. THE CITY CAN GO TO THE HOA AND MANDATE THAT THEY FIX IT. SO HOPEFULLY THAT WON'T BE AN ISSUE, BUT 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, WHO KNOWS YOU'RE RIGHT. UH, AND IF I COULD ASK, UH, KIMBERLY, IF YOU COULD PUT THE SITE PLAN UP AGAIN, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT AND CAUSE I I'M HAVING TROUBLE PULLING MINE UP. OKAY. IS THERE A MEDIAN ON ROAD ROAD THERE? IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE IS, IS THERE. AND IF THERE IS, IS THERE A DIESEL LANE FOR TURNING AND EVERYTHING? AND I DON'T SEE WHERE THE SITE PLAN IS SHOWING UP. EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME, SIR. BUT MY, MY MOTHER WOULD BE DOWN AT 38 0 2 ROOM CIRCLE, WHICH IS AT THE CORNER WHERE THE ENTRANCE WOULD BE DOWN IN YOUR FURTHEST RIGHT-HAND CORNER. RIGHT. AND THERE IS NO TURN. UM, I MEAN THERE'S BRAND NEW MEDIANS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN, UM, JUST ALL, NOT ALL THAT LONG AGO. AND, AND THERE IS NOTHING COMING FROM WHEN YOU'RE COMING TOWARDS WE'RE ALL AT ROAD. THERE IS NO LEFT HAND LEFT HAND TURN THAT WOULD ACCOMMODATE AT THIS TIME FOR COMING IN TO THAT DRIVE. AND I JUST FEEL LIKE TRAFFIC IS GOING TO BACK UP. AND IS THAT GOING TO CONTINUE? ARE WE GOING TO WANT TO PIT, ARE YOU GOING TO WIND UP GETTING A LIGHT THERE AT THAT INTERSECTION SO PEOPLE CAN GET THROUGH AND ACROSS BECAUSE OF TRAFFIC? UM, I JUST FEEL LIKE THAT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE. ALRIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, KIMBERLY. ALRIGHTY. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OF MS. MS. ALCORN THERE? [00:50:02] THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, TRACY, NEXT PERSON, PLEASE. NEXT SPEAKER WILL BE KIMBERLY SCOTT. HI, MY NAME IS SCOTT. UM, I LIVE AT 4 0 1 4 WHITEWASHED TRAIL AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL. UM, RIGHT BEFORE THE LAKE. UM, WITH THAT, I THINK I'M TOO FAR AWAY HAVE GOTTEN THE NOTICE ABOUT THIS, BUT FORTUNATELY ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS TOLD ME, UM, UNLIKE EVERYONE ELSE, WE'VE ONLY BEEN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THREE YEARS AND THE ATTRACTION TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD WAS THE QUIETNESS OF IT. UM, I WORRY, WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH, UH, CRIME OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT DOWN HERE. I'M NOT AFRAID TO BE IN MY HOUSE OR WALK THE STREETS IN THE EVENING, YOU KNOW, AFTER IT GETS DARK OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I WORRY JUST AS THE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID, UM, TOWNHOMES DO TYPICALLY, UH, WIND UP BEING, UH, RENTERS. AND I WORRY ABOUT YOUNG FAMILIES THAT MIGHT HAVE TEENAGERS THAT LIKE TO EXTRACT TROUBLE. I HAVE A COUPLE OF THOSE MYSELF THAT I KEEP UNDER CONTROL. UM, BUT YEAH, I WORRY ABOUT ALL THE SAME THINGS, THE TRAFFIC, ESPECIALLY THAT CORNER, UH, AT THE RED LIGHT, UM, WE DO SEE WRECKS THERE. UM, I WORRY WITH THE, UH, PROPERTY LINE GOING ALL THE WAY TO THAT CORNER. THERE MIGHT NOT BE ENOUGH SIGHT THERE. UM, AND ESPECIALLY I SAW THE TWO EGRESS IS ALSO THE, THE TWO ENTRANCES. THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. UM, WE DO GET BACK UP SINCE I, I LIVE OFF WHITE ROCK TRAIL. I'M KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT BACK, THAT ROWAN LINE. UM, TRAFFIC IS BACKED UP EVERY SINGLE DAY, UM, DOWN PAST WHERE MS. ALCORN'S MOM LIVES TO GET TO THAT RED LIGHT WITH PEOPLE GOING BACK AND FORTH, UM, AS THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK. SO TO SPEAK ONLY THREE YEARS IN, I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT WE MOVED HERE BECAUSE IT'S QUIET AND WE WOULD CERTAINLY WHEN MIND SINGLE FAMILIES, WE JUST WORRY ABOUT THE MULTIFAMILY CONCEPT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT SPEAKER SPEAKER WILL BE STACY. WE'LL GO AHEAD AND UNMUTE YOU'RE UP NEXT? YES. HELLO? CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? YES. STACY MAY THREE. I'M SORRY. I JUST FORGOT THAT 8 0 2 WALKMAN BOULEVARD. I LIVE ON THE CORNER WITHIN 400 FEET OF THE FIGHT. OKAY. UM, WHAT MANY OF MY NEIGHBORS, I'M SORRY, GETTING A LOT OF FEEDBACK, BUT LIKE MANY OF MY NEIGHBORS I'VE BEEN A LIFELONG RESIDENT AND GARLAND BORN AND RAISED HERE AND ALSO A LONGTIME PROPERTY OWNER. AND MY FIRST AND FOREMOST CONCERN IS A NEIGHBORHOOD SAFETY CONCERN. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS ALREADY A VERY HIGH VOLUME, HAS A HIGH VOLUME OF TRAFFIC COMING FROM ALL SIDES. MOST, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE TIME ROAD ROAD WAS EXPANDED TO THE BIA FOUR LANE ACCESS ROAD TO, AND FROM OUR 30. AND THERE'S ALREADY A NOTICEABLE INCREASE IN THE GROWING TRAFFIC VOLUME IS MORE PEOPLE MOVE TO THE NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES, WHICH ALL UTILIZE ROME ROAD FOR THEIR DAILY ACCESS TO . AND EVEN THOUGH THE SPEED LIMIT SIGN SAYS 40 MILES PER HOUR, MOST DRIVERS AGGRESSIVELY COMPETE TO, BUT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE ELSE, WHO'S ALREADY WAITING IN LONG TRAFFIC LINES AS THEY MAKE THEIR APPROACH FOR MY 30 TO TURN ONTO RAIL AT ROAD, HEADING INTO ROULETTE AS WELL AS COMING IN OFF OF AT ROAD TO TURN ONTO OWN ROAD TO ACCESS FIVE 30. UM, ALSO WE FREQUENTLY IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND ME BEING ON THE CORNER, YOU CAN HEAR THE EMERGENCY VEHICLES SIRENS OFTEN. I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A GREAT DEAL OF TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS AT ROAD ROAD AND RAIL AT ROAD. YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK INTO THAT. THAT'S JUST SOMETHING I WANTED TO MENTION. UM, ALSO ANOTHER POINT I WANTED TO MAKE, OBVIOUSLY TOWNHOUSES DON'T HOLD THEIR VALUE AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE OBVIOUS VALUE OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES IN LOOKING AT THE RENDERINGS THIS EVENING. THESE ARE DEFINITELY A LOWER BUDGET PLAN. UM, SO ANOTHER MAJOR FACTOR THAT CONCERNED ME CONCERNS ME IS THE APPROVAL OF THIS TYPE OF REZONING REQUEST. NOT ONLY WILL RESULT IN THE INEVITABLE DEVALUATION [00:55:01] OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD PROPERTY VALUES, BUT IT ALSO OPENS THE DOOR FOR POTENTIAL DEVASTATION OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND HOME VALUES. A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE BEING IF AFTER REZONING, THE CURRENT TOWN HAS PROJECT FALLS THROUGH OR CHANGES, THE SITE'S ALREADY ZONED IT READY FOR APARTMENT BUILDING, WHICH IS ALREADY OVER ABUNDANT IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, ALSO JUST TO EXPAND UPON MY NEIGHBORS THAT MENTIONED THAT BRICK WALL ISSUE THAT'S AROUND, I BELIEVE THE WATERHOUSE BOULEVARD, NEIGHBORHOOD OR WATER WATERHOUSE BOULEVARD. IT TOOK ALMOST TWO YEARS FOR ANY BRICK REPAIR TO EVEN GET STARTED SO THAT MY, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, THAT'S A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION IF YOU WANT TO CHECK IT. BUT IN SUMMARY REZONING IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA FOR TOWNHOUSES OR APARTMENTS WOULD BE OVERDEVELOPMENT AS THIS TYPE OF HIGH DENSITY. COMPACT HOUSING IS NOT CONFORMING TO THE AREA AND WILL OBVIOUSLY LOWER THE DESIRABILITY OF OUR LAKESIDE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO I WOULD LIKE TO RESPECTFULLY A CREST REQUEST IN LIEU OF OVERDEVELOPMENT. CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE CONSIDERATION TO MUCH NEEDING IMPROVEMENTS FOR THIS AREA? AND WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND LISTENING TO ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. I WILL POINT OUT, SHOULD THIS BE APPROVED AND MOVE ON TO CONSOLE AND BE APPROVED THERE? UH, IT DOES NOT ALLOW FOR APARTMENTS. IT WOULD ONLY BE ZONING, BUT HE WANTED TO COME BACK IN AND DO APARTMENTS OR EVEN CHANGE IT TO SINGLE FAMILY. AGAIN, IT WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK THROUGH THE PROCESS. REALLY APPRECIATE IT. ALRIGHTY. YES, SIR. MY NAME IS ERIC . I LIVE AT GREEN 9 2 0 CEDAR CREEK DRIVE. I REALIZE I'M OUTSIDE OF THE 400 FEET FROM THE PROPOSED FACILITY FROM, UH, OUTSIDE THE 400 FEET. HOWEVER, I THINK THAT THIS WILL DEFINITELY IMPACT THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE WE ARE, UM, OR CEDAR CREEK IS AT THREE TENTHS OF A MILE FROM THE CORNER OF RAILROADS AND RALEIGH. AND VERY OFTEN I HAVE TO WAIT AND BACK UP FOR PEOPLE TURNING RIGHT ONTO VALID ROAD TO GO TO THE BACK INTO, UH, ACROSS THE LAKE THERE, UM, 3000 A MILE BACK. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY BROUGHT THAT UP AS A VERY DIFFERENT, IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG TRAFFIC PROBLEM THAT IS NOT THERE. UM, IN ORDER TO DO THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO WIDEN IT. IT'S GOING TO TAKE OUT SOME OF THE SPACE THAT ACCOMMODATED FOR THE, UH, FOR THE, FOR THE, UH, THE PLANT THAT YOU DREW OUT. UM, THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO BRING UP AS EVERYONE ELSE HAS IS, UM, THE MAINTENANCE OF THE FACILITY THERE. A LOT OF THE HOMES THAT WERE BUILT, WE MOVED HERE IN 2000, THERE WAS A SUBDIVISION THAT WAS BUILT DIRECTLY BEHIND THIS YEAR, THE HOMES THAT ARE, UH, EXPENSIVE HOMES, BUT THEY WERE VERY CHEAPLY BUILT. AND IT'S VERY, THAT'S BEEN A BIG PROBLEM WITH THOSE HOMES OVER THERE, UH, RAPIDLY DETERIORATING IN THE LAST 20 YEARS, YOU KNOW, STABBINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, AND LOOKING AT THE WAY THAT THIS PLACE IS LOOKING LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE CONSTRUCTED. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. AND AS EVERYONE HAS STAGES, SOME PEOPLE HAVE STATED THAT, I MEAN, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO DECREASE THE MARVI, IT'S GOING TO DECREASE THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY. AND, UM, I'M VERY, I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. UM, NOT TO TAKE A WHOLE LOT OF, I AGREE WITH EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS AND INPUT ON THIS, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT. THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SPEAK ON THIS. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING, COMING DOWN, SO TO SPEAK. WE DO APPRECIATE IT. AND THE SYSTEM AND THE PROCESS WORKS BETTER WITH CITIZEN INPUT. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? YES, SIR. ALRIGHTY, GO AHEAD, SIR. ON MUTE YOURSELF AND NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE GIVE HIM A FEW SECONDS HERE. STEPPED AWAY FROM THE DESK FOR A SECOND. PROBABLY [01:00:04] IS OUR LAST SPEAKER, SIR. I KNOW. YEAH. MR. CASTILLO, HELLO. TELL YOU WHAT, WHY DON'T I BRING THE APPLICANT BACK FOR A SECOND AND GIVE MR. CASTILLO SOME MORE TIME HE CAN CHIME IN. SO I BELIEVE THE, UH, DO I SEE THE AFRICAN UP HERE? UH, YEAH. MR. BOOKIE JUST MOVED DOWN. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD. I SAW YOU WANT TO CHIME IN AFTER THE FIRST SPEAKER, YOU'VE HEARD A FEW OF THEM. YES. SO, UM, I WANT TO THANK ALL THE SPEAKERS FOR, FOR MAKING THE POINTS THAT THEY MAKE AND THEY'RE ALL VALID POINTS. UM, I, I DO FEEL THAT, THAT WE ARE GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND, UM, WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR A DEVELOPMENT OF THIS NATURE. UM, THIS IS, AND I HEARD, I JUST WANT TO ADDRESS AS MANY POINTS IN AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, BUT I HEARD A LOT OF THE SPEAKERS SAY THEY WOULD LIKE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES ON THIS SITE. UM, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THAT BY, BY JUST SAYING, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO PUT SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES ON THIS SITE, IT'S AN ECONOMIC. UM, IF WE COULD PUT SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES, THAT WOULD BE OUR CHOICE. IT'S A VERY SMALL SITE. IT'S ONLY FOUR ACRES AND THE PRICE OF THE LAND IS EXTREMELY HIGH. SO, UM, ECONOMICALLY, UM, SINGLE FAMILY WOULDN'T WORK. THE, THE ONLY OTHER OPTION THAT WOULD WORK OTHER THAN TOWNHOMES IS HIGHER DENSITIES, WHICH WOULD BE OF A COMMERCIAL NATURE. SO THE TOWNHOMES THAT WE'RE PLANNING DO GIVE THE NEIGHBORS THE LEAST AMOUNT OF DENSITY POSSIBLE. UM, GIVEN THE SITE THE SIZE AND ITS LOCATION, UM, WITH REGARDS TO, UM, THE WALL, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DID THE OPEN FENCE, UH, FOR A REASON TO BE ABLE FOR THE NEIGHBORS AND THE TRAFFIC TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE PARK THAT WERE IT GAVE, UM, IT GIVES A VIEW OF AN OPEN SPACE. IT PROVIDES MORE THAN JUST DRIVING BY AND LOOKING AT A SOLID CONCRETE WALL. THAT WAS, THAT WAS PART OF OUR THOUGHT PROCESS, UM, BEHIND HAVING SOME OPEN FENCE AND WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO PUT SOME LANDSCAPING IN FRONT OF IT TO MAKE IT, UM, A NICER LOOKING AND PRETTIER. BUT, BUT THAT, THAT WAS OUR SORT OF GOAL WAS TO ALLOW THE PASSING TRAFFIC TO HAVE SOME SORT OF A PARK TYPE OF VIEW. UM, WE ARE PUTTING TO, UH, TURN LANES INTO ADDRESS THE TRAFFIC PROBLEM. I HEARD MANY OF THE, UM, OF THE RESIDENTS SAY THAT IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO TURN INTO THE SUBDIVISION, UM, FOR A SUBDIVISION OF THIS SIZE. SO, UH, WE ORIGINALLY HAD 54 LOTS DESIGNED FOR THIS SUBDIVISION AND IN WORKING, UH, WITH KIMBERLY THROUGH THE PROCESS AND THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT AND THE TRAFFIC DEPARTMENT, WE LOWERED THE OVERALL A LOT TOTAL FROM 54 DOWN TO 43 TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE PARK TO MAKE ROOM FOR TURNING LANES TO ALLOW, UM, SOME DRAINAGE EASEMENTS THAT THE, UH, ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT WANTED. THAT'S WHY SOME OF OUR LOTS ARE SMALLER. UM, THERE'S ACTUALLY MORE SPACE BEHIND THE LODGE, BUT IT'S BEEN DEDICATED, UM, AS OPEN SPACE FOR DRAINAGE. SO, UM, WE'VE, WE'VE REALLY SHRUNK THIS DEVELOPMENT DOWN FROM WHAT OUR ORIGINAL PLAN WAS. SO I, I WANT THE NEIGHBORS TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN, UM, TO TRY AND MAKE THIS FIT INTO THE COMMUNITY AS IT STANDS. AND I DO FEEL THAT WE ARE STILL, UM, UH, THE, THE BEST OPTION BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO BE LOWER DENSITY. THESE ARE NOT APARTMENTS. WE HAVE NO INTENTION OF MAKING THEM RENTAL UNITS. UH, THIS IS A FOR SALE. WE ARE THE DEVELOPER WHO WOULD DO DOES THE LAND. AND WE ALSO WOULD BUILD A UNIT. SO WE'RE NOT SELLING THEM TO ANOTHER BUILDER. UM, WE WOULD, WE WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR, UM, BEGINNING TO END, AND THIS IS A FOR SALE PROJECT. UM, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET ALL THE POINTS THAT I HAD. YEAH. YES. TH THOSE ARE ALL MY POINTS. AND, AND AGAIN, I, I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE ADDRESSED A LOT OF THE CONCERNS OF THE COMMUNITY AND, AND I DO, I REALLY THINK THE COMMUNITY FOR COMING OUT. UM, WE WANT THIS TO BE A PROJECT THAT THEY WILL BE PROUD TO HAVE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, W WE, WE ARE NOT DOING SECTION EIGHT. WE ARE NOT DOING ANY OF THE NEGATIVE, UM, THINGS THAT, THAT SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS AREN'T AFRAID OF. WE'VE TRIED TO REALLY MAKE THIS A POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT. SO I THANK [01:05:01] THE COMMISSION AND THE NEIGHBORS FOR ALL THE HARD WORK. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY, UH, QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT AGAIN? UH, TRACY DID OUR LAST UP PUBLIC SPEAKER GO AWAY. I DON'T SEE HIM HERE. OKAY. AND WE HAVE NOBODY ELSE. THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. AND, UH, CA KIMBERLY, IF I CAN, UH, IMPOSE ON YOU AGAIN, AT LEAST, UH, EIGHT, HE TALKED ABOUT TWO TURN LANES. I'M ASSUMING THESE ARE TURN LANES INTO THE PRIOR TO GOING OFF OF ROLLA ROAD, ONE OFF OF WRONG ROAD. THERE'S A MEDIAN THERE. WOULD HE BE REQUIRED TO PUT A LEFT-HAND TURN LANE COMING NORTH ON ROWAN ROAD TO TURN INTO HIS DEVELOPMENT, UH, CUT INTO THE MEDIAN? THAT IS CORRECT, BUT I WILL HAVE TO CHECK WITH THE TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT. OKAY. CAUSE, UH, THE RIGHT RIGHTFULLY CONCERNED THAT IS A MAJOR ROAD. AND IF SOMEBODY STOPPING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LANE TO WAIT TO TURN THE LEFT, UH, RIGHT THERE AT THE CORNER OF ROOM AND CIRCLE WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN, I CAN SEE THERE'S A TURN LANE COMING SOUTH TO GO INTO ROOM CIRCLE, BUT WE NEED A TURN LANE COMING NORTH. AND I DIDN'T SEE THAT ON THE SITE PLAN. AND THAT'S SOMETHING TRAFFIC DEFINITELY NEEDS TO REQUIRE FOR IF THIS PASSES. ALRIGHTY, OKAY. COMMISSIONERS, UH, I THINK WE'RE INTO MOTION OR DISCUSSION TIME AND I SEE COMMISSIONER ROSE RAISING HIS HAND OVER THERE. I HAVE A QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT BEFORE WE GET THERE. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN PUT IN TO THE SALES CONTRACT THAT THESE UNITS MUST BE OWNER OCCUPIED, COMMISSIONER ROSE? YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING I WOULD LOVE TO DO, BUT I WAS, I WAS IN BUSINESS IN 2008, NINE AND 10. AND IF I, IF I PUT THAT, UM, INTO ANY OF OUR CONTRACTS, I FEEL THAT, UM, IF, IF WE HAD, UH, A DEBACLE OF THAT MAGNITUDE, UM, WE WOULD GO BANKRUPT. AND, AND THAT IS JUST A VERY, I UNDERSTAND THE REASONING BEHIND IT, BUT, UM, IT IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, WOULD BE VERY, VERY, VERY, UM, EXCESSIVELY, FINANCIALLY. UM, UH, HOW DO I SAY IT? IT'S, IT, IT, IT JUST WOULD, WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON US FINANCIALLY IN THAT SORT OF, UH, UH, UH, A CLIMATE AND A MARKET. AND THAT, THAT, THAT REALLY, UM, MAKES ME SCARED. UM, OKAY. SO THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN GET RUN T TO THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THESE WON'T BE RENTED OUT. THERE IS NO WAY I CAN GUARANTEE YOU. I LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE ARE SEVERAL, SEVERAL HOUSES WHERE THERE'S FIVE, SIX CARS PARKED BUTTON, THE DRIVEWAY, THE STREET FOR FOUR BEDROOM HOUSE, FOUR PATHS. NO, THEY'RE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES, BUT THEY'RE RENTED. SO I THINK THAT'S, YOU GOTTA, WITH THE, UH, IN OUR NEIGHBOR WITH NEUTRAL WAY, IT WAS WRITTEN INTO THE HOA, THE MAXIMUM 10%, BUT THAT'S BEYOND OUR CONTROL. SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? ALRIGHTY, WELL, BACK TO A DISPATCHER. OH, OKAY. OKAY. COMMISSIONER WALKED UP THERE IN THE CORNER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. LAYLA. LAYLA, IS THAT HOW YOU SAY IT? YES, LAYLA. LAYLA. OKAY, COME, SORRY. I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE COMPETENT. YOU'RE OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THAT. UM, SO IN THE NOTES IT SAYS THAT THE, THERE ARE TWO OPTIONS FOR GARAGE DOORS. UM, I WAS WONDERING HOW THAT'S DETERMINED THAT SAYS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE FOLLOWING ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS SHALL BE PROVIDED FOR EACH GARAGE. AND HOW, WHAT, HOW ARE THOSE ELEMENTS CHOSEN? ARE, ARE YOU BUILDING TO OWNER'S SPECIFICATIONS OR WHAT IS THE SIZE OF THE HOME DETERMINING THE GARAGE DOOR? UM, I I'M, WE [01:10:01] HAVE IN OUR PLAN CHOSEN THE DOUBLE GARAGE DOOR. WE WOULDN'T BE BUILDING TO OWNER'S SPECIFICATIONS. WE DO INTEND TO TRY AND PRE-SELL AS MANY UNITS OF COURSE, AS POSSIBLE. UM, BUT WE HAVE CHOSEN A, UH, UH, A DOUBLE GARAGE DOOR PER UNIT. OKAY. UM, WELL I GUESS I'M JUST THEN TO HAVE A SINGLE OR DOUBLE DOOR. OKAY. UM, IT SAYS UPGRADED CARRIAGE STYLE GARAGE DOORS OR FOE WOOD GARAGE DOORS WOULD BE OKAY. SO THAT'S JUST THAT I, I WOULD TAKE THAT AS AN ARCHITECTURAL DETAIL AND WE WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO CHANGE THOSE FROM UNIT TO UNIT TO MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE THEY'RE INDEPENDENT, MORE SINGLE FAMILY LOOKING AS OPPOSED TO A ALL BE EXACTLY THE SAME ACROSS THE WHOLE BUILDING. SO WE WOULD WANT TO HAVE DIFFERENT COLORS AND DIFFERENT STYLES OF THE DOORS TO GIVE THEM INDEPENDENCE. OKAY. AND ARE YOU SET ON THE COLORS THAT ARE PRESENTED, UM, ON THE UNITS? UH, NO. I, I ACTUALLY DON'T LIKE THE COLORS THAT ARE PRESENTED. UM, WE CAN DO A MUCH BETTER ON THOSE. WE ARE OUR ARCHITECTURAL FIRM, UH, PUT THIS TOGETHER AND, UH, TO BE HONEST, UM, WE DIDN'T HAVE, UM, THE ABILITY TO REALLY SIT DOWN AND WORK WITH THEM AS MUCH AS WE WOULD LIKE TO ON. AND, SORRY, I'M LOOKING AT THE PICTURE WHILE I'M TALKING TO YOU, UM, ON, ON THE COLORS. AND WE WOULD LIKE TO DO SOME DIFFERENT BRICK, UM, DIFFERENT BRICK COLORS, UM, AND IN DIFFERENT PAINT COLORS AND ROOF COLORS AS WELL. SO WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB ON THE COLORS. UM, WE WOULD CERTAINLY HIRE A DESIGNER TO HELP US THROUGH THE PROCESS, WHICH ON THIS, WE, IT WAS JUST OUR ARCHITECTS THAT HANDLE THAT. UM, YEAH, I, I WILL HAVE TO EXPLAIN, ESPECIALLY TO NEW COMMISSIONERS WHO MAY NOT KNOW THAT THE STATE IN 2019 TOOK AWAY OUR ABILITY TO, UH, SLICK MATERIALS AND COLORS AND THINGS LIKE THAT ON, ON, UH, DETAILED PLANS AND STUFF IN THEIR INFINITE WISDOM. THEY, THEY TOOK SOME VALUABLE TOOLS AWAY FROM US. WE HAVE TO LOOK STRICTLY TO THE ZONING OF THIS. SO I WANT TO ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS. BELIEVE ME. YES, SIR. YES. BUT, AND, AND I UNDERSTAND, UH, YOU KNOW, AT THE SB LAW, UM, BUT WE, AS, AS THE BUILDER, UM, WE WANT TO DO A BETTER JOB AND DO A GOOD JOB, AND WE WANT TO MAKE A SELLABLE PRODUCT THAT LOOKS GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY, THAT PEOPLE ARE PROUD TO LIVE IN AND TO MAINTAIN PROPERLY. ALRIGHTY, THANK YOU. WE APPRECIATE THAT. AND, UH, COMMISSIONER PARIS DID, UH, HAD YOU CHIMED IN, GO AHEAD. I HAD A QUESTION MORE BACK TO TRAFFIC, SO THIS MAY BE MORE FOR, I BELIEVE THE LAST NAME IS LUKE AND I'M AND BACK TO THE QUESTION, UM, I, I DID, UH, CONNECT WITH A MEMBER OF STAFF JUST EARLIER, JUST TO UNDERSTAND BETTER AROUND THE TIA. SO THE TRAFFIC IMPACT, UM, ANALYSIS, AND I KNOW IT DIDN'T MEET THE THRESHOLDS, BUT WAS THAT ONLY FOR ROANE AND ROLLUP? WHAT ABOUT THOSE OTHER INTERSECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP FROM, UM, SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS, UM, HERE, UM, DURING THE CITIZEN'S COMMENTS, WAS THAT, UH, WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD AND THEN, UM, WAS THAT RATIO REVIEWED FOR THOSE OTHER INTERSECTIONS? UM, NOT JUST RHONE AND WALLET, BUT THOSE OTHERS, UH, BETWEEN, UM, AND THEN TOOK 30. SO IT WAS THAT IMPACT ANALYSIS, UM, ONLY DONE WITHIN, UM, THAT ONE INTERSECTION, UH, THAT DIDN'T MEET THE THRESHOLD. AND WHAT IS THAT THRESHOLD? SO I GUESS IT'S A THREE-PART QUESTION JUST TO GET ME A BETTER SENSE OF COMFORT LEVEL JUST AROUND THE TRAFFIC CONCERNS THAT WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT THE WAY THAT THE WAY OUR CRITERIA WORK IS IT'S NOT BASED ON ANY ONE INTERSECTION IT'S BASED ON THE SITE. SO THE WHOLE SITE HAS TO, IF IT HAS MORE THAN 2,500 TRIPS GENERATED, THEN IT REQUIRES A TA. WE CAN REQUIRE A TIA, BUT IT HAS LESS THAN THAT. IF WE FEEL LIKE THERE'S SOME KIND OF A TRAFFIC ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE WORKED OUT, UM, WITH THIS BEING, UM, SO FAR BELOW THAT THRESHOLD, AND WE DIDN'T SEE ANY KIND OF TRAFFIC ISSUES, UH, THAT THIS WOULD COST. UM, THAT'S WHY WE DIDN'T REQUIRE THE TA A FOLLOW-UP TO HER QUESTION. UM, YOU PROBABLY REFERENCED THE TRAFFIC COUNTS ALONG THE ROAD AND RELEVANT ROAD AT PEAK [01:15:01] HOURS. ARE THEY GETTING ANYWHERE CLOSE TO MAXING OUT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? NO, NOT ON THAT ROADWAY ITSELF. UM, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE MO THE MOST CONGESTION YOU HAVE IS IN YOUR INTERSECTIONS AND TYPICALLY SIGNALIZED INTERSECTIONS, UM, THAT RELEVANT RELEVANCE IS, IS ONE OF THE INTERSECTIONS THAT'S, UM, ONE OF OUR HEAVIER INTERSECTION, BUT IT'S NOT OVER CAPACITY, AT LEAST NOT THE LAST TIME THAT WE LOOKED AT IT. SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT ONE THAT WE THAT'S OVERCAPACITY, BUT WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AGAIN AT SOME POINT. BUT, UM, I, THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL GENERATE IS, IS IT'S GOING TO HAVE A PRETTY NEGLIGIBLE IMPACT ON, ON THE, THE TRAFFIC ON THE, ON THE ROADWAY. THERE'S A, THERE'S ABOUT 15,000 CARS A DAY ON THE ROAD, ON ROAD ROAD RIGHT NOW. SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, 430 CARS A DAY WOULD, WOULD BE ABOUT A LITTLE LESS. YEAH. THREE OR FOUR, THREE, 4%, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHTY. CONTINUED DISCUSSION FOR EMOTION. DON'T ALL JUMP IN AT ONCE. UH, COMMISSIONER ROSE THAT WE ARE CLOSED, THE PUBLIC HEARING. I HAVE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING THE SECOND BY COMMISSIONER JENKINS. THIS IS JUST TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALRIGHT. THAT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHTY. THIS SESSION, WE'VE GOT A LOT TO ABSORB. UH, LET'S SEE. I SEE, UH, COMMISSIONER JENKINSON, COMMISSIONER ROSEN. DID I HEAR ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY. COMMISSIONER JENKINS, CHAIRMAN CONDITIONS THAT YOU INITIALLY PROPOSED THAT THE AFRICANS DEAL WITH THE APPLICANT ADDRESS EACH OF THE CONDITIONS THAT YOU MENTIONED? WELL, YOU SAID WHEN HE ORIGINALLY CAME ON TO BE WILLING TO WORK WITH STAFF ON STUFF THAT WE'VE MENTIONED, BUT NOT IN PARTICULAR, I TALKED ABOUT THE 25 FOOT WORDS, AND I DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN ADD THE CONDITION AT ALL GARAGE DOORS OR CARRIAGE STYLE. THAT IS, I THINK THAT WAS MESSED UP BY THE STATE LAW WOULD HAVE TO BE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT REQUIRE THAT AFRICAN, I THINK INDICATED THAT HE'D BE WILLING TO WORK WITH THE CITY REGARDING, RIGHT. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY KIND OF DEVELOPMENTAL AGREEMENT CONTEMPLATED ON THIS OR NOT. I, I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT IT. COMMISSIONER ROSE. I'M JUST CURIOUS AS TO THE TIMEFRAME THEY'RE GOING TO OBVIOUSLY GET THE COUNCIL SOME POINT IN TIME. ARE THEY LOOKING AT STARTING THIS NEXT SPRING NEXT SUMMER, TWO YEARS FROM NOW? WELL, LET ME ASK THE AFRICAN BACK ON TO ANSWER THAT EITHER. GO AHEAD. YEAH. OUR, OUR INTENTION IS TO BE AS EXPEDITIOUSLY AS POSSIBLE. UM, WE W W WE WOULD, UM, START DEVELOPMENT AS SOON AS WE COULD, AS SOON AS WE COULD GET OUR APPROVALS FROM, UH, THE CITY IN START, UH, IT WOULD BE OUR INTENTION TO, TO MOVE ON THIS, UM, UH, AS SOON AS WE COULD. ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER UP. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN AND GENERAL I'M IN FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT, BUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAD SUGGESTED THAT I'D LIKE TO REITERATE THAT THAT SECTION OF LAND IS BEHIND UNITS, 23, 23, SOMETHING THAT REALLY NEEDS THAT, UH, THAT WE LET THIS SET THE COUNCIL NOW THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT, BECAUSE THAT COULD BE AN AREA THAT, UH, COULD BE USED MORE FOR THE LOOPING AMENITY OR, UH, AND ALSO KNOCKING THE CORNER TO GIVE THEM A BETTER SIGHT LINE. THERE'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THAT MORE SO THAN JUST HAVING A SUPER LONG AREA THAT THE HOMEOWNERS HAVE TO MOW. SO, UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I JUST WANT TO PUT AN EMPHASIS ON THE BEYOND THAT I KNOW THAT SOME OF OUR, UM, POWERS ARE LIMITED OTHER THAN TO, UH, FOR THIS BIT GO OR A NO-GO. WE CAN'T GET INTO A LOT OF THE DETAILS OF IT, BUT, UM, IT HAS TO BE DEVELOPED WITH SOMETHING. AND, UH, THIS ISN'T [01:20:02] JUST LOOKS, UH, THIS, THIS LOOKS PRETTY FAVORABLE IN MY EYES, EYES. YEAH. WE'RE HERE TO CONSIDER THE USE IN THE DETAILS OF WHICH THEY PROPOSE TO USE. SO THE SHORTER LODGE, THE SMALLER LODGE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO, ALRIGHTY. AND COMMISSIONER ROSE AGAIN. OKAY. TO FOLLOW UP WITH COMMISSIONER HOCK, WHY CAN'T WE MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNCIL THAT THEY, UH, CUT OFF THAT CORNER AND MAKE THOSE LOTS A LITTLE SHORTER. SO THERE CAN BE A RIGHT TURN LANE IN THERE. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S THAT HAS TO DO WITH USE. UH, WE COULD PROBABLY, AND I'M CERTAIN I'LL GET A TEXT. IF I GET THIS WRONG, WE COULD PROBABLY ADD A CONDITION TO THE PD THAT, UH, OH, THIS IS GOOD. THIS IS GETTING DIFFICULT. AND WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ATTORNEYS SITTING HERE. CAN THEY GET SCARRED ATTORNEYS RAISING HIS HAND HERE? GO AHEAD, SIR. DEMENTIA AGAIN, COMMISSIONER ANGULAR. OKAY. WELL, THANKS GUYS. THANKS FOR THE PROMOTION, BUT I'M NOT A COMMISSIONER. I'M JUST GOING TO ADVICE AND, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO WITH MY ADVICE, BUT YOU'D LIKE, SO, UM, UH, YES, THAT WOULD NOT BE A, UH, IT WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE TO PASS WITH A CONDITION FOR THAT. WHAT YOU COULD DO IS SEND A NOTE TO COUNSEL WITH YOUR REPORT TO COUNCIL SAYING THAT YOU RECOGNIZE THIS AS A PROBLEM. IT'S SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL MAY WANT TO LOOK AT IN WHETHER OR NOT THE APPROVED THE ZONING IN THIS CASE. UM, UH, SOME OF THESE DETAILS Y'ALL WERE GETTING TO ARE PREFERENTIAL AND NOT, AND NOT, UM, REQUIRED MY, THE GDC. AND SO FOR THOSE THINGS, Y'ALL, Y'ALL CAN SEND A NOTE TO COUNSEL ALONG IN THE REPORT THAT SHOULDN'T BE A CONDITIONER PASSING, UH, UH, PASSING THIS OR RECOMMENDING AN APPROVAL OF THIS. YEAH. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I SAID. AND I TRIED TO SET IT UP AS A CONDITION AND IT JUST WASN'T WORKING AND I'M GOING, YEAH, I'M GOING TO GET TEXTS ON THIS ONE. UH, SO JUST FOR INSTANCE, UH, THOSE LOCKS SHORTER WOULD BE ENOUGH TO CONSOLE THE 25 FOOT WOODS. THAT CAN BE A CONDITION OF THE PD, BECAUSE IF THERE'S A ZONING ITEM ITEM, IF WE WANTED ALL THE DOORS TO BE CARRIAGE STYLE, I DON'T THINK WE COULD EVEN DO THAT BECAUSE IT'S A STATE THING, BUT WE CAN LET CONCENT KNOW, AND MAYBE IT GOES INTO A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. I DON'T KNOW. AND, BUT WE COULD TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE IN TERMS OF SIZE OF LOCKS, NUMBER OF UNITS AND TRAFFIC ACCESS. I THINK WE'VE PRETTY WELL BUTCHERED. THIS ONE, DO I? NOPE. I HAVE A QUESTION. COMMISSIONER ROSE. YES. UH, IF WE GO IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY, CAN WE, AS A COMMISSION, ASK OUR CHAIRMAN TO SIT DOWN AND WORK UP A, UH, A LIST OF SUGGESTIONS TO THE COUNCIL, UH, AS DEFINED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY? UH, I, I WOULD THINK THEY'D PROBABLY BE INAPPROPRIATE FOR ME TO WORK SEPARATELY WITH STAFF. UH, I THINK STAFF STAFF LISTENS, THEY'LL GO BACK TO THE TAPE, THEY'LL HEAR ALL THIS. AND THEY'LL INCORPORATE IN THEIR REPORT. MR. GARRETT IS VERY GOOD ABOUT SAYING COMMISSION WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, THIS AND THIS, UH, DURING THE PROCESS, THE RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVAL, BUT THEY DO HAVE THESE CONSERVATIVES, BUT, UH, TO ME TO KIND OF WORK WITH THEM OUTSIDE, I'M NOT SURE THAT'S APPROPRIATE TO, SINCE NONE OF THE ATTORNEYS HAVE CHIMED IN. I'M ASSUMING I'M CORRECT. CORRECT. MR. CHAIRMAN COMMISSIONER YOU'RE. YOU'RE CORRECT. THANK YOU. UM, SO WHAT COULD GO IN THERE COMMERCIAL WISE? WHAT WOULD FIT IN THAT SPACE IF THIS WAS NOT APPROVED? WELL, THIS IS ZONED AGRICULTURAL, WHICH IS, UH, HOLDING, UH, CONDITIONS, UH, HOLDING ZONING. YOU CAN BUILD ONE BIG SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE ON IT AND USE IT FOR HAY. THAT'S ABOUT IT, WHICH LEAVES IT OPEN TO ANY OTHER ZONING. PEOPLE CAN ASK FOR IT. IF WE WANT RETAIL, HE COULD PROBABLY GET A STRIP CENTER COMMERCIAL. YOU COULD PROBABLY GET AN OFFICE BUILDING IN THERE. ANYBODY CAN COME AND ASK FOR ANYTHING. AND MR. GAREN, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M STATING THAT CORRECTLY OR NOT. YES, SIR. SO THE PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY ZONED AG. THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT. YOU CAN DO WITH THE AG. THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE IS TWO ACRES, SO THEY COULD, [01:25:01] UM, THEY COULD DO, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF LARGE SINGLE FAMILY, LOTS, AND THERE'S SOME AGRICULTURAL RELATED ALLOWANCES FOR IT. BUT BEYOND THAT, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT. SO, UM, AS MR CHAIRMAN SAID, IT TYPICALLY IS KIND OF A, AN INTERIM OR HOLDING OFTENTIMES UNTIL, UM, UNTIL SOMETHING ELSE COMES ALONG. SO THIS IS THE ONLY REQUEST IS SPECIFICALLY FOR TOWNHOUSE ZONING, SSA, SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED IS REALLY INTENDED FOR TOWNHOMES. IN ADDITION TO THAT, BEING A PD AND A DETAILED PLAN, IT WOULD BE LOCKED IN IT'S ABOUT THE USE AND THE LAYOUT. HOW FAR AWAY IS THE NEAREST GAS STATION? HAVEN'T A CLUE COMMISSIONER DALTON, I THINK, WANTS TO CHIME IN AFTER, THROUGH THERE. UH, HAVING INCLUDED ON THAT IS ACTUALLY IN RESPONSE TO THAT AS WELL. OKAY. THE NEAREST IS APPROXIMATELY A HALF A MILE AWAY. AND THEN SINCE I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE CITY, GOING BACK TO THE DAYS I WAS ON THE, YOU TELL THE ADVISORY BOARD, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME I HAVE SEEN AN APPLICATION MADE ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY. THE FIRST ONE WAS COMMERCIAL FOR A GAS STATION, AND IT WAS TURNED DOWN SECOND APPLICATION. I HAVE SEEN TO CHANGE THE ZONING OF THIS PROPERTY NOW THAT IT'S SOMETHING STUCK BETWEEN, BUT I DON'T RECALL SEEING ANYTHING ELSE HERE. THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY HAS BEEN VERY QUIET FOR A VERY LONG TIME. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR QUESTION. I SAW YOU'RE LEADING. YOU'RE GOING BY THE WHAT CAN GO WRONG PHILOSOPHY. YEAH. WHAT COULD GO IN THERE FOR BETTER OR WORSE? YES. OKAY. ALRIGHTY. UNLESS THERE'S ANY MORE DISCUSSION, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION COMMISSIONER JENKINS. YOU'RE NOT BEHIND THE CAMERA. SO THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE ZONING REQUEST. EXCUSE ME. ON THE PLAN PD PRESENTED BY STAFF COMMISSIONER, UH, WOULD THAT ALSO INCLUDE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD THE 25 FOOT LOT SIZE WIDTHS? YES. ALRIGHTY. WE HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER JENKINS TO APPROVE THE APPLICATION WITH THE ADDITIONAL PD CONDITION OF A 25 FOOT MINIMUM. LOCKWOOD'S DO I HEAR A SECOND COMMISSIONER AT YOUR HAND WAS A LITTLE OFF FRAME THERE, BUT I GOT IT. ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? THE MOTION IS TO APPROVE AND MR. GAREN, I THINK YOU CAN PROBABLY, UH, THERE STILL ARE NOTES OTHERWISE WHO SECONDED IT? UH, COMMISSIONER OUT MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SECOND BY COMMISSIONER TO APPROVE WITH THE 25 FOOT LOCKWOOD AT A PD CONDITION. ALRIGHTY. ALL IN FAVOR. ALL OPPOSED. OKAY. I GUESS I PASSED UNANIMOUSLY UNLESS I MISSED SOMETHING. OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT WAS A TOUGH ONE, BUT WE MADE IT THROUGH THE DISCUSSION FOLKS. LET'S SEE NEXT ITEM. AND THAT WAS FOR THE DETAILED, OKAY. LET ME BACK UP, SIR. WAS THAT A MOTION TO APPROVE THE ZONING AND DETAILED PLAN? YES. YES. THERE'S A SECOND CONCUR IS JUST TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL. PLEASE VOTE AGAIN FOR THE ZONING AND A DETAIL PLAN. I DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT ON ANYTHING HERE AND THEN AS UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU. GIVE ME A FEW, FOUR YEARS AND I'LL GET CAUGHT, CAUGHT UP WITH THESE TWO PARTNERS HERE. WE [Items 2e & 2f] HAVE ANOTHER TWO PART OF COMING UP IS ITEM TWO E AND TWO F AND COMMISSIONERS. WE ARE EIGHT 30. WE'LL SEE HOW THIS GOES, BUT IF THE COMMISSIONERS WANT AFTER THIS ASIDE, AND WE MAY TAKE A 15 MINUTE BREAK BEFORE COMING BACK TO DISCUSS THE DOWN COUNTING ISSUE, WHICH COULD GO FOR AWHILE, THERE'S KIND OF A HEADS UP ITEM TO E CONSIDERATION. THE APPLICATION OF CODY DIXON REQUESTING APPROVAL OF A SPECIFIC USE PROVISION TO ALLOW A GUEST HOUSE ON A PROPERTY ZONE, AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT. THIS PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1, 1 76 TALLY ROAD. UH, LET'S SEE, THIS IS A SPECIFIC USE PROVISION FILE Z 21 DASH 13 AND TWO F CONSIDERATION OF THE APPLICATION OF CODY DIXON REQUESTING [01:30:01] APPROVAL OF A PLAN FOR A GUEST TEST. THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 176 TALLY ROAD PRESENTATIONS. GOOD EVENING. HERE'S THE REQUEST AS STATED, AND THE APPLICANT PROPOSES AND APPROXIMATELY 1,217 SQUARE FOOT GUEST HOUSE TO BE LOCATED BEHIND THE PRIMARY HOUSE. HERE'S THE CASE INFORMATION. THE ACREAGE IS APPROXIMATELY 2.5 ACRES. THIS IS THE CITY BY LOCATION MAP. THE RED STAR IDENTIFIES THE APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. AND THIS IS THE LOCATION MAP. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS OUTLINED IN THIS TEAL BLUE COLOR, AND IT'S LOCATED ALONG KELLY ROAD AND SURROUNDING DEVELOPMENT ARE MAINLY RESIDENTIAL FUTURE LAND USE MAP OF THE ENVISION GARLAND PLAN DESIGNATES THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AS TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD. AND YOU PROPOSED USE IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. HERE ARE SOME OF THE SITE PHOTOS. THE TOP LEFT IS VIEW OF THE PROPOSAL LOCATION OF THE GUEST HOUSE. THE TOP RIGHT IS LOOKING AT THE PRIMARY HOUSE FROM TALLY ROAD. THE BOTTOM LEFT IS LOOKING NORTH OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AND THE BOTTOM RIGHT IS LOOKING WEST OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. AND HERE'S THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN, WHICH SHOWS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE THAT IS 4,257 SQUARE FOOT. AND THE PROPOSED GUEST HOUSE WILL BE LOCATED BEHIND THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE. AND THAT IS 1,217 SQUARE FOOT. AND THIS SITE PLAN DOES CONFORM WITH ALL THE GDC REQUIREMENTS. AND THE GDC ALSO REQUIRES THE GUEST HOUSE TO BE LESS THAN 30% OF THE FLOOR AREA OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE. AND THE PROPOSED GUEST HOUSE IS BELOW THAT 30% AND ALSO COMPLIANCE WITH THE PARKING REQUIREMENT. HERE ARE THE BUILDING ELEVATIONS FOR THE NORTH AND SOUTH SIDE, AND THEY, UM, ARE COMPLYING WITH THE BUILDING DESIGN STANDARDS FOR THE GDC, THE EAST AND THE WEST ELEVATION. YEAH, WE CAN REQUEST THE SEP TO BE IN EFFECT FOR A PERIOD OF SEVEN YEARS, WHICH ALIGNS WITH THE SEP TIME PERIOD GUIDE STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE SEP FOR GUEST HOUSE ON A PROPERTY ZONE, AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT AND APPROVAL OF A PLAN FOR A GUEST HOUSE ON A PROPERTY ZONE AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT. WE DID MAIL OUT NOTIFICATION LETTERS. 72 LETTERS WERE MAILED OUT THREE WERE WITHIN A NOTIFICATION AREA. AND FOR THE REQUEST, ONE WAS WITHIN A NOTIFICATION AREA AND AGAINST THE REQUEST AND WE RECEIVED A TOTAL OF FOUR RESPONSES. THAT IS THE END OF MY PRESENTATION. I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, ANY QUESTIONS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN? IT'S NICE TO BE ABLE TO SAY LADIES AND GENTLEMEN AGAIN FOR A CHANGE, YOU KNOW THAT THANK YOU FOR JOINING US LADIES. I THINK YOU GOT EVERYTHING. NOPE, NOPE, NOPE. COMMISSIONER DOLL. PUT ME BACK BEHIND THE CAMERA AGAIN. SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO SIT. IS THAT THE DEAL? UM, NO, I, I PUT DUCT TAPE OVER TO YOUR SCREEN. I'M SORRY. I WOULD TOO. IF I COULD, UM, SOMEONE'S GOING TO BUILD A HOUSE AND ONLY HAVE AN ISSUE PAID FOR SEVEN YEARS. I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND AT THE END OF SEVEN YEARS, IF IT DOESN'T GET RENEWED TO GET TO TEAR IT DOWN, THE APPLICANT WILL HAVE TO COME BACK AGAIN AND RENEW THE SEP. I BELIEVE SHE'S WORKING OFF THE APPROVED LIST, UH, THAT A CITY COUNCIL PUT TOGETHER RECOMMENDED LANES AND THEY'RE JUST WORKING BASED OFF OF THAT. WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO IGNORE THAT LIST AND MAKE IT, YEAH, I JUST CAN'T SEE, JUST GIVING HIM SEVEN YEARS FOR AN ENTIRE HOUSE. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. WELL, THIS, THIS, UH, UH, COMMENTARY IS, UM, I WAS NOTICING THIS, THIS FOUR-SIDED BRICK ARCHITECTURE FOR A GUEST HOUSE. THAT'S PRETTY IMPRESSIVE. BUT, UM, IT WAS THAT, THAT WASN'T A REQUIREMENT BY THE CITY. THAT IS THE APPLICANT THAT [01:35:01] DECIDED TO DO THAT. SO THIS ONE POINT THAT UP IT'S, IT'S PRETTY NEAT TO SEE. ALL RIGHT. HERE'S THE APPLICANT HERE, CHRISSY? YES, SIR. OKAY. OH YEAH. STEVE SPEAKERSHIP DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU WOULD, WHILE HE'S TRYING TO CHIME IN. I'LL ASK, DOES ANYBODY REALLY HAVE A QUESTION FOR HIM? NONE. OH, CODY, YES. SORRY, LET ME FIND HOW TO TURN MY CAMERA AROUND, RIGHT. THAT'S FINE. UM, NONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANTED TO ADD ANYTHING OR JUST LET US DO A THING. UM, WELL, NO, I MEAN, UH, I HAD A WHOLE ENTIRE, UM, SPEECH PREPARED FOR Y'ALL, BUT UH, IF, UH, IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO KEEP IT BRIEF, I JUST WOULD SAY THAT I'M VERY EXCITED. UM, YOU CAN SEE ME HERE. EXCUSE ME. I JUST FORGIVE ME FOR THAT. I, UH, I JUST WANT TO SAY VERY EXCITED TO WORK WITH, UH, UH, THE COMMISSION HERE JUST TO GO THROUGH THIS AND NO, I, I DO NOT WANT TO TEAR DOWN THIS GUEST HOME AFTER SEVEN YEARS. UM, I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS A TEMPORARY CONDITION OTHER TO THIS SPECIAL USE. SO, UM, I'D BE HAPPY TO ADJUST AND AMEND THAT GOING FORWARD, BUT I JUST, QUITE FRANKLY DIDN'T KNOW THE PROTOCOL. SO, UM, BUT, UH, IT WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR DETAILS, UH, REGARDING THE PROPOSAL, UH, COMMISSIONER ROSA SAW YOUR HAND GO UP. YES, SIR. WOULD YOU BE AGREEABLE TO A LONGER ISSUE BE 10 YEARS OR 15 YEARS? ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION A LONGER ONE. AGAIN, DIDN'T KNOW THE STIPULATIONS THERE, BUT WOULD BE HAPPY, HAPPY TO AGREE TO A LONGER SUP THERE. ALRIGHTY. I THINK IF IT GOES AWAY LIKE A REAL, THAT CAN BE ARRANGED IN THE OTHER QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER MR. GREER CALLING EVERYBODY COMMISSIONER TONIGHT. YES, SIR. NOTHING MUCH TO ADD JUST THAT THE, YEAH, THE SUV TIME PERIOD IS VERY, VERY BROAD FOR GUEST HOUSE. IT STARTS AT FIVE YEARS AND IT GOES TO UNLIMITED. THE TIME WAS BASED ON PREVIOUS APPROVALS BY COUNCIL AND REALLY TWO OR THREE, THE SIZE SAMPLE WAS VERY SMALL. SO I DIDN'T GIVE THE APPLICANT OR STAFF A WHOLE LOT OF DIRECTION, BUT THIS IS HELPFUL TO RECOMMEND A PARTICULAR TIME PERIOD. SO THANK YOU. ALRIGHTY. AND, UH, DID, DID, UH, DID YOU GIVE YOUR ADDRESS, UH, CODY IF I MAY NOT. AND IS THAT A 1, 1 7, 6 COULD HAVE GUESSED THAT AND I SAW A HAND GO UP WAS THAT YOU COMMISSIONER DALTON. THANK YOU. ONE LAST QUESTION, MR. GUERIN, UM, PARTICULAR SITUATION WITH THE SUP FAMILY MEN CAN, IS THERE ANY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A HOME THAT'S ALREADY EXISTING ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY AND WE'RE BUILDING A GUEST HOUSE. LET'S, WE'LL CALL IT AN IN-LAW HOUSE OR WHATEVER. THERE'S NO REAL WAY TO TIE THAT TO THE OTHER HOUSE. IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE AN ISSUE. IT, UH, IF IT'S, IF IT'S NOT PHYSICALLY CONNECTED, IT BECOMES A SEPARATE STRUCTURE, SUBJECT TO THE SUP RULES LIKE EMOTION. THEN IF EVERYBODY'S HAPPY, GO AHEAD. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND APPROVED THE SUP FOR A PERIOD OF 25 YEARS. AND I SEE A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER ROSE'S TIME, A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER DALTON. UH, WOULD THAT TO BE, TO APPROVE THE SUP AND THE PLAN? YES, IT WOULD. AND SECOND CONCURRENCE, WE HAVE MOTION BY COMMISSIONER DALTON AND A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER ROSE TO APPROVE THE ISSUE P FOR A PERIOD OF 25 YEARS IN THE PLANT. ANY DISCUSSION THAT IS UNANIMOUS. GOOD LUCK AND ENJOY THE GUEST TEST, SIR. [01:40:01] THANK YOU SO MUCH. COUNSEL, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IT'S 8 41 NOW. UH, LET'S TRY AND COME BACK IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES, WHICH WOULD PUT US THAT EIGHT 50, UH, COMMISSIONER ROSE. I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST WE, UM, IF WE CAN DEAL WITH MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS THREE B FIRST, CAUSE THAT'LL GO FAST. I THINK LET'S JUST TAKE THEM IN THE ORDER. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. YEAH. THAT'LL GIVE US A LITTLE BIT OF A WIND DOWN THE NEXT ONE. YEAH, WE GOTTA KEEP WE'LL AWAKE HERE. YOU KNOW, HE'S GOT TO PRESENT THAT ONE FOR US. ALRIGHTY. SO LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'LL STAY IN ABOUT 15 SINCE WE'RE NOT ON TV. WE'RE A LITTLE FLEXIBLE ON THAT. ALRIGHTY, THANK YOU. WELCOME BACK TO THE AUGUST 16TH MEETING OF THE GOLAN PLAN COMMISSION. [3A. Consider amendments to Chapter 7 “Downtown (DT) District” of the Garland Development Code to create a Downtown Square (DS) sub-district and limit future uses allowed on the properties surrounding the Downtown Square.] WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH OUR MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS. UM, ITEM THREE, A CONSIDER AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER SEVEN DOWNTOWN DISTRICT OF THE GARLAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO CREATE A DOWNTOWN SQUARE SUBDISTRICT AND LIMIT FUTURE USE IS ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTY SURROUNDING THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN YOU SEE MY SCREEN? YES, WE DO. OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. WELL, THIS IS A PROPOSED GDC AMENDMENT REGARDING CHAPTER SEVEN. UH, THIS WOULD BE SPECIFIC TO THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE AREA. THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE OF THE CITY COUNCIL MET ON JULY 19TH, 2021, AND, UM, RECOMMENDED TO PROCEED WITH THIS AMENDMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS A NEXT STEP. I MEAN IT WOULD GO ON TO, UM, CITY COUNCIL WOULD BE THE FINAL APPROVAL AUTHORITY. SO THIS IS THE PROPOSED ZONE THAT WOULD BE IMPACTED BY THIS, THIS CHANGE. SO IT'S REALLY THE PARCELS THAT HAVE DIRECT FRONTAGE ONTO THE SQUARE OR ON THE STREETS THAT IMMEDIATELY SURROUND THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE. SO IT'S OUTLINED IN THIS, UH, BLUE COLOR HERE THAT WAS, UM, PER THE, UH, COMMITTEE'S DIRECTION AND WHAT THIS WOULD BE, UM, CHANGING WE'RE CARVING OUT IS THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE IS CURRENTLY WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUBDISTRICT, UH, THE SQUARES ABOUT RIGHT HERE. UM, SO IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUB-DISTRICT OF THE DOWNTOWN, UM, ZONING AREA. SO WE WOULD BE, UM, ESSENTIALLY CARVING OUT A NEW DOWNTOWN SUBDISTRICT SHOWN HERE SO LITTLE BEFORE AND AFTER. SO BE CARVING THAT OUT AND THEN, UM, DEFINING THE, UM, ALLOW WHAT USE IS WITHIN THIS NEWLY CREATED SUBDISTRICT. SO GO THROUGH THE USES. I WON'T READ EACH AND EVERY ONE, BUT I'M CERTAINLY HAPPY TO GO BACK. UM, IF YOU'D LIKE THIS, UH, UH, PRESENTATION WAS IN YOUR PACKETS AND THIS INFORMATION WAS ALSO SENT WITH THE, UM, NOTIFICATION LETTERS THAT WENT OUT FOR THIS CASE, BUT ON THE LEFT HAND COLUMN IS THE CURRENT ALLOWED USES. UM, AGAIN, IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED DOWNTOWN HISTORIC SUB-DISTRICT ON THE RIGHT HAND COLUMN IS THE PROPOSAL. UM, THE LIST OF ALLOW USES, UM, IN THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE SUB DISTRICT. SO YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THESE USES, UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR SLIDE, UH, NO CHANGES HERE. THESE WOULD ALL CONTINUE TO BE ALLOWED BY, RIGHT? IF IT'S BY SUP IT'LL NOTE THAT HERE ON THE SLIDES, BUT THESE WOULD ALL BE ALLOWED BY, RIGHT? YOU CAN SEE SOME EXAMPLES HERE, RETAIL RESTAURANT, FITNESS STUDIO, UM, UH, PERSONAL SERVICES, THINGS LIKE THAT, JUST IN STUDIO, ANTIQUE SHOPS AND DOORS ONLY. AND THEN HERE YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE SAME, UM, UH, BEFORE AND AFTER, OR THE SAME ALLOWANCES, BUT I'VE NOTED THE DIFFERENCE IN DIFFERENCES IN RED. SO STARTING WITH SMALL-SCALE THEATERS, UH, WHICH WERE ALLOWED BY RIGHT, THIS WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS AN ASSEMBLY HALL, WHICH WOULD NOT, UH, WHICH NEW NEW USES WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED EXCEPT BY LAND USE CREDIT. WE'LL GET INTO THAT AND EXPLAIN THAT HERE IN A FEW MINUTES, UH, MULTIFAMILY IN THIS PROPOSAL WOULD BE ABOUT ALLOWED BY SUP ONLY, UH, SAME WITH, UM, FURNITURE HOUSEHOLD, UH, FURNISHING FURNISHINGS AND APPLIANCE SALES AND RENTAL BY SUP ONLY, WHEREAS CURRENTLY IT'S ALLOWED, UH, BY RIGHT, SEE THE NEXT FEW USES NO CHANGES THERE. UM, BUT THEN A NOTABLE CHANGE HERE FOR, UM, HOTEL AND MOTEL. THOSE WOULD BE BY SUP ONLY, UH, BUT LIMITED TO, UM, FULL SERVICE AND LIMITED SERVICE RATHER THAN THE EXTENDED STAY. YEAH. AND THEN SOME BEFORE AND AFTER SLIDES HERE, THESE WOULD BE, UM, UH, NOT, UH, LISTED AS PERMITTED, UH, USES EITHER [01:45:01] BY RIDE OR BY SUP IN THIS DRAFT. AND THEN HERE'S THE NEXT SLIDE. UM, YOU COULD SEE SOME AGAIN WHERE IT'S BLANK. UM, IT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AS A, AS A NEWLY PERMITTED, UH, USE OF COURSE THOSE, ANY OF THOSE THAT ARE CURRENTLY EXISTING WOULD BE CONSIDERED LEGAL, NONCONFORMING AND ALLOWED TO, UM, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE AS, OR NOT AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT EXPANDING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. UM, CHURCH OR PLACE OF WORSHIP. UM, THIS WOULD BE CONSIDERED ON THE PROPOSED ASSEMBLY HALLS DEFINITION CRAFTED BY THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. AGAIN, WE'LL GET INTO THAT HERE IN A LITTLE BIT. UH, SAME WITH SIR SOCIAL SERVICE FACILITIES AGENCIES, UM, CIVIC CLUBS AND FRATERNAL LODGES AND RECEPTION FACILITIES. AND THEN FINALLY, HERE'S THE LAST SLIDE, JUST SOME, UH, LISTS OF A LIST OF EXISTING, UM, PERMITTED USES EITHER BY RIDE OR BY SUP AS NOTED HERE, UM, UH, FINANCIAL INSTITUTION THAT INCLUDES, UH, BANKS, UM, AND THEN UNDER THE PROPOSED ALLOWED USES OVER TO THE RIGHT, UH, WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED AS USES. OKAY. UH, DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS ARE NOT BEING CHANGED WITH THIS PROPOSAL OTHER THAN JUST REFERENCING THE NEW DOWNTOWN SQUARE SUB DISTRICT, UM, WITH THOSE APPLICABLE, UH, STANDARDS. SO WE'RE JUST MATCHING THOSE UP WITH REALLY WHAT'S WHAT'S OUT THERE FOR WHAT'S REQUIRED TODAY, UH, IN TERMS OF, UM, DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. SO SIMPLY HALLS, UM, THE, UH, DEFINITION IS CRAPPED BY THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS, UH, IT'S ATTRACTIVE LAND OR STRUCTURE DESIGNED OR PRIMARILY USED FOR A GROUP OF PERSONS TO GATHER TOGETHER USUALLY AT DESIGNATED TIMES FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR MISSION, WHETHER POLITICAL, CULTURAL, EDUCATIONAL, OR RELIGIOUS THE TERMS AND THE TERM INCLUDES, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO SOCIAL SERVICES, CIVIC CLUBS, RECEPTION FACILITIES, MEETING HALLS, RELIGIOUS SERVICES, FRATERNAL LODGES, ET CETERA. AND, UM, ESSENTIALLY HOW THIS WORKS. I'LL KIND OF READ A LITTLE BIT FROM THE REPORT HERE, IF THAT'S OKAY JUST TO KEEP MYSELF ON TRACK, BUT, UM, MAKE SURE I'M EXPLAINING IT CORRECTLY, BUT, UM, THIS WOULD BE, UM, THIS WOULD BE INTRODUCING A LAND USE CREDIT, UM, VERSUS EITHER ALLOWING IT BY RIOT OR BY SUP UH, WE HAVE A SIMILAR, UM, CONCEPT FOR THE, UM, AUTOMOBILE OVERLAY. THAT'S A LITTLE FURTHER TO THE EAST AND GARLAND. UM, BUT DUE TO THE LIMITED PUBLIC PARKING ON AND AROUND THE SQUARE ASSEMBLY HALLS, WHICH GENERALLY CREATE A DEMAND FOR INTENSIVE PARKING, UM, PLUS THE, THE INTENT HERE, UM, UH, FROM THE COMMITTEE IS THAT THE PROPOSED USES ALIGN WITH FOSTERING A VIBRANT PEDESTRIAN ORIENTED, ORIENTED DOWNTOWN CORE ENVIRONMENT. UM, IF YOU'VE PROBABLY OBSERVED FROM THE LIST OF USES, THEY PRIMARILY INCLUDE, UH, ALONG THE LINES OF RETAIL RESTAURANT AND ENTERTAINMENT TYPE USES. UM, BUT THE ASSEMBLY HALL USES WOULD ONLY BE ALLOWED WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE SUB DISTRICT, UH, WITH, UH, TRANSFERRABLE LAND USE CREDIT, UH, USE CREDITS ASSEMBLY HALL USES CURRENTLY EXISTING WITHIN THE SUB DISTRICT WILL BE ALLOCATED A TRANSFERABLE LAND USE CREDIT FOR, UH, EACH SQUARE FOOT OF PROPERTY OCCUPIED OR USED AS AN ASSEMBLY HALL EXCLUSIVE OF, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES, LOBBIES BATHROOMS, CLOSETS, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, A NEW ASSEMBLY HALL MAY NOT OPERATE AND AN EXISTING ASSEMBLY HALL USE MAY NOT EXPAND UNLESS THE PROPOSED OR EXISTING ASSEMBLY HALL USE OBTAINS TRANSFERABLE LAND USE CREDITS FROM ANOTHER ASSEMBLY HALL USE WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE SUBDISTRICT. UM, SO EXISTING ASSEMBLY HALLS ARE STILL CONSIDERED LEGAL AND CONFORMING. UH, THEY JUST CAN'T EXPAND WITHOUT A LAND USE CREDIT TRANSFERRED FROM ANOTHER ASSEMBLY HALL USE WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE AREA. AND MR. ENGLAND IS HERE TO, UM, EXPAND ON THAT OR ANSWER FURTHER LEGAL RELATED QUESTIONS IF IT'S NEEDED. UM, AND I BELIEVE THAT'S IT, AS FAR AS NOTIFICATION LETTERS MAILED OUT THIS WHILE THIS IS A GDC AMENDMENT, IT OBVIOUSLY IS, UM, UH, AFFECTING A SIGNIFICANT, A ZONING CHANGE. SO WE TREATED IT VERY SIMILARLY TO A ZONING CHANGE AND THAT WE MAILED OUT A NOTIFICATION LETTERS ON THIS. SO WE MAILED OUT 182 LETTERS. UH, WE RECEIVED THREE IN FAVOR OF THE REQUEST AND SIX AND OPPOSITION. AND WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'LL OPEN IT UP TO ANY QUESTIONS. ALRIGHTY. AND THERE MIGHT BE ONE OR TWO. ALL RIGHT. COMMISSIONER AND COMMISSIONER ROSE AND THEN THAT, AND THEN COMING. YEP. THERE YOU ARE IN THE CORNER COMMISSIONER. OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, WELL THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. ONE OF THE THINGS I'M CURIOUS ABOUT IS WHAT IS THE REASONING FOR THE, [01:50:01] UM, EXCLUSION OF OFFICE FROM THE LIST OF OFFICE? I'M SORRY. YES. FOR OFFICE USES. SURE. WELL, BASED ON MY UNDERSTANDING, UM, YOU KNOW, THE LIST OF USERS ARE PRIMARILY INTENDED TO, UH, KIND OF HONE IN ON MORE USES THAT GENERATE MORE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC AROUND THE SQUARE, PERHAPS THAT STAY OPEN A LITTLE LATER, UM, YOU KNOW, DURING THE EVENINGS, IF THERE'S A FENCE, UH, AND, AND, AND WHATNOT, FRIDAY, SATURDAY NIGHTS, THAT SORT OF THING. UM, UH, SO I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF THE INTENT. UM, CERTAINLY I KNOW WE'VE HEARD FROM, UH, A FEW OFFICE USERS AND, UM, IT'S, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT UNUSUAL TO HAVE OFFICES, OBVIOUSLY IN A CORE DOWNTOWN AREA. SO THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT CAN BE, UH, CONSIDERED AND RECOMMENDED ACCORDINGLY, UM, BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS THIS PROCEEDS. OKAY. THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD ADD AT FIRST WITH A, WITH AN SQP, CORRECT? CORRECT? YES, SIR. OKAY. UM, AND CAN YOU DEFINE WHAT A LIVE BURKE UNIT? SURE. I'VE GOT ARE SIX OF THE GDC HANDBAGS. I FIGURED THEY'RE GOING TO BE QUESTIONS ABOUT DEFINITIONS OF SOME OF THESE USERS AND THAT THE TERMINOLOGY I WENT THROUGH, THOSE SLIDES, THOSE WERE JUST THE TERMINOLOGY TAKEN STRAIGHT FROM THE GDC. I KNOW SOME OF THEM WERE KIND OF TECHNICAL SOUNDING, UM, BEAR WITH ME. IT'S UH, DOWNTOWN SAN PEDRO. I APOLOGIZE. HERE WE GO. OKAY. WE'RE WORKING AT, UM, UNITS CONTAINING BOTH LIVING QUARTERS AND A COMMERCIAL SPACE SUCH AS RETAIL ARTISTS SPACE OR GALLERY, A BUSINESS OR OTHER PROFESSIONAL OFFICE ACTIVITIES WHERE THE LIVING AND WORKING AREAS SHALL EACH HAVE A SEPARATE ENTRY FROM A PUBLIC WALKWAY. AND THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT IS LOCATED ABOVE THE COMMERCIAL USE. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HAVE. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THREE DEVELOPED ONE OF THESE UNITS INSIDE TO HAVE A PLACE WHERE THEY LIVED ABOVE IT AND HAD AN ART STUDIO OR SOMETHING BELOW. OKAY. THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER ROSEMAN, COMMISSIONER, LOOK, THANK YOU. BEFORE WE GET TOO DEEP INTO THIS AND IT MAY WELL BE SOMETIME IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT AT LEAST HALF, IF NOT MORE THAN HALF OF THE PEOPLE THAT WANTED TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM ARE GONE. MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE THAT WE TABLE THIS UNTIL OUR NEXT MEETING AND HABIT, THE VERY FIRST VOLUME WE CAN CONSIDER THAT. UH, BUT I WOULD WANT TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE TONIGHT FIRST THOUGH, AND THEN WE CAN MAKE THAT DETERMINATION BECAUSE THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK AND THEY'RE HERE NOW. SO YEAH, BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT, UH, PERMISSION TO, I'M CURIOUS WHY A PHARMACY IS ADDED TO THE LIST OF, UH, ALLOWED BUSINESSES AND THINGS LIKE OFFICE SPACE. AREN'T UM, I JUST DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY A PHARMACY WOULD HAVE ENTERTAINMENT OR THAT KIND OF ENTERTAINMENT VALUE IN THE SQUARE. AND IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TAKE OFF THE LIST, WELL, WE'RE HERE TO ADVISE THE CONTROL AND CAPELLA B, BUT WE WILL ALSO BE PROBABLY PUTTING TOGETHER A MOTION TO TAKE SOME CONNECTION RECOMMENDED SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS SO WE CAN CONSIDER ANY OF THAT BACK TO COMMISSIONER. I WAS CHAIRMAN I HAD A QUESTION I FORGOT TO ASK, UH, WHAT, UH, IF YOU COULD, I WILL, IF YOU COULD EXPAND ON WHAT, THE REASONS WHY THIS IS BEFORE US, WHY ARE WE LOOKING TO, UM, TO MAKE THIS CHANGE OR THESE RECOMMENDATIONS THEN? IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT, UH, THAT, UH, THAT WE'RE WANTING TO DO? WELL, UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH INTO THE BACKGROUND I'D BE ABLE TO REALLY SPEAK ON OTHER THAN, UM, AGAIN, I THINK THE INTENT WAS, UM, LOOKING AT FUTURE POSSIBLE USES THAT COULD GO OUT ON THE SQUARE, GIVEN THE, THE CITY'S INVESTMENT IN THE SQUARE AND TRYING TO CREATE IT, HAVE A VIBRANT, UM, THAT STREET FAMILY ORIENTED ENVIRONMENT, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, AND MAKING SURE THAT USES, UM, ALL ALIGN WITH THAT AND USES THAT KIND OF GENERATE PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY WAS, UM, WAS KIND [01:55:01] OF A CONCEPT THERE. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S, UM, THAT'S MY THING. AND THAT'S WHAT I, THAT'S WHAT I FIGURED THAT WAS THE REAL REASON IS THAT WE HAVE THE CITY IS GOING TO BE, IS PUTTING A SIZEABLE INVESTMENT IN THE SQUARE AND THE, TO MAKE IT MORE PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY TO MAKE IT WHERE IT'S A WALKABLE AREA WITH PEOPLE BUMP INTO EACH OTHER. AND THAT WE HAVE ENTERTAINMENT VENUES FOR PUTTING A PERMANENT PRINT STAGE. UH, EVERYTHING'S GOING MORE IN A CERTAIN VISION AND DIRECTION. AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO, WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ALIGN THE USES THAT GO AROUND THIS SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT SO THAT WE'RE ALL WALKING IN BASICALLY THE SAME STEP. THAT WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER JENKINS CHAIRMAN, I'VE GOT ABOUT FOUR QUESTIONS. THE FIRST QUESTION WAS GOING TO BE REALLY SIMILAR TO SOMEBODY, OTHERS FINANCIAL INSTITUTION. SO I KNOW WE WERE TALKING ABOUT PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY, ENCOURAGING PEDESTRIAN WALK, WALKING MOVEMENTS. WHY WOULD A BANK NOT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD ENCOURAGE A PEDESTRIAN TO COME INTO THE AREA? SURE. YEAH, NO, ABSOLUTELY. THERE ARE, THERE IS AN EXISTING BANK, OF COURSE THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED, UM, BY THIS, UM, ON THE WESTERN KIND OF SOUTHWESTERN PART OF THE SQUARE. SO, UM, THAT, THAT CAN CERTAINLY BE PART OF THE COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION. UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL THE LIST WE WENT THROUGH WITH THE COMMITTEES IT'S, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, WE DRAFTED IT TOGETHER AND THEN THE COMMITTEE MADE SOME CHANGES, BUT ULTIMATELY THIS IS JUST THE LIST THAT'S UM, BEFORE YOU ALL, BUT, UM, CERTAINLY I FIGURED THIS WOULD BE SOMEWHAT FLUID GOING THROUGH PLANNING COMMISSION AND ULTIMATELY COUNCIL AND, UM, UH, FIGURED THAT PROBABLY SOME CHANGES ALONG THE WAY. NEXT QUESTION. UM, I, SO I TRIED TO LISTEN IN ON THAT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, UH, UH, COMMITTEE MEETING, UH, ALL YOU SPEAK IN GREEK, BASICALLY THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE MEETING. UH, THE ONE QUESTION THAT I THINK IS REALLY PRESSING, UH, IS, IS UNDERSTANDING WHY A SUDDEN DESIGNATION OF A LAND USE CREDIT IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO ENCOURAGE THE DIRECTION. I, SORRY, I, I HEARD, UH, THAT THIS IS SOMETHING A LITTLE NEW AND SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF CITIES HAVE NOT DONE BEFORE. AND I, I HEARD IT THAT WOULD SCARE ME, UH, BECAUSE, UH, ANYTHING NEW AS AN ATTORNEY MEANS IT'S, IT'S RIPE FOR ALL SORTS OF ARGUING. AND I'M JUST TRYING TO BE CERTAIN, I UNDERSTAND HOW THIS COULD WORK. GO AHEAD, MR. THERE, YOU ARE COMMISSIONER JAKE AND YOU'RE CORRECT. IT IS A FAIRLY UNIQUE, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT NEW TO THE CITY OF BERLIN. WE'VE DONE SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR TO, UM, THE AUTOMOBILE OVERLAY DISTRICT, UM, WHICH IS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA ALSO WHERE BASICALLY THE CONCEPT IS FOR EVERY PARTICULAR LAND USE THAT YOU HAVE, WE ISSUED THAT CREDIT FOR IT. AND THE IDEA IS, IS THAT, UM, YOU DON'T THROW THEM INTO NONCONFORMING STATUS LIKE YOU WOULD, IF YOU DID A STRIPE ZONING OR EVEN REQUIRED AN ISSUE. UH, AND, UM, BECAUSE ANYTIME YOU THROW LIKE LAND USE AND THE NONCONFORMING STATUS, THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO THAT. UM, UM, PARTICULARLY AFTER I REMEMBER WANTING TO GET A, UM, A LOAN TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE PROPERTY, UM, UH, UM, THAT COULD MAKE IT RUN INTO PROBLEMS WITH ACQUIRING LENDING FOR THAT TYPE OF ACTIVITY. AND SO THIS IS A FAIRLY UNIQUE CONCEPT TO GARLAND. IN FACT, I'M NOT SURE IF I'VE, UH, I KNOW OF ANY OTHER CITY THAT HAD THIS CONCEPT IN PLACE FOR US, FOR, I WOULD SAY AROUND 20 YEARS, AT LEAST AT LEAST 14 YEARS, BUT I THINK IT WAS PROBABLY CLOSER TO 20. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND JUST TO PIGGYBACK OFF THAT, UM, SO I UNDERSTAND THE APPLICATION OF THE LAND USE CREDIT AS IT APPLIES TO A COMMERCIAL PURPOSE. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M LIKE, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THE, NOT MY STORY, ESPECIALLY THE CHURCHES, THERE'S ALREADY A CHURCH, THEY WOULD BE OUT OF THAT. OKAY. UM, UM, WE'VE LOOKED AT THIS ISSUE QUITE A NUMBER OF TIMES IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. AND EVEN BEFORE THAT, AS FAR AS REGULATING CHURCHES AND HERE TOO FOR THE CITY HAS NEVER, UM, BLINKY, LIGHTED, UH, CHURCHES, UH, AS TO WHAT AS, AS FAR AS ZONING GOES, UH, THEY'VE ALWAYS MADE A LOT OF MONEY, EVERY ZONING DISTRICT, UM, UM, THAT THEY WISH TO OPERATE IN. IT'S CREATED PROBLEMS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. IT'S CREATED PROBLEMS [02:00:01] IN OTHER LOCATIONS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT'S CRAIG AND SOME WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID SOME PARKING ISSUES, BUT WE ALREADY HAVE PARKING ISSUES DOWNTOWN. AND I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE OF THAT. AND SO WITH THE IDEA OF ASSEMBLIES IS THAT ANY USE IN CHURCHES JUST HAPPENED TO BE ONE OF SEVERAL USES THAT WE'VE DEFINED AS ASSEMBLIES AND WHAT THE COURTS HAVE SAID AS FAR AS, UM, THE, OUR LOOP OF STATUTE GOES AND THAT'S THE FEDERAL, UM, UH, WALL THAT PROTECTS, UM, UH, UH, WORSHIP ASSEMBLIES AND ALSO INSTITUTIONAL PERSONS. BUT IN THIS CASE, WORSHIP ASSEMBLIES, AS LONG AS WE'RE TREATING THEM THE SAME AS WE ARE OTHER SOCIAL, UM, UM, ACTIVITIES, SIMILARLY SITUATED ACTIVITIES, THEY WERE NOT IN VIOLATION OF THE TEXAS COROLLARY. TEXAS ALSO HAS A LAW THAT IS THAT PRETTY MUCH TRACKS WITH THE FEDERAL LAW. SO AS LONG AS WE'RE CREATING THE SAME AS SOME SOCIAL SERVICES AND, UM, UM, OTHER ASSEMBLINGS GATHERING AND THAT STORY STORIES, AND YOU'LL SEE IN OUR PARTICULAR CASE, NOTICE THAT WE'VE INCLUDED AS THE SAME WAYS SOME CITY USES THERE, INCLUDING OUR THEATER. UM, CAUSE THERE WAS ONE PARTICULAR CASE OUT THERE WHERE THE COURT SAID, LISTEN, WE UNDERSTAND THAT Y'ALL WERE HAVING Y'ALL ARE SAYING Y'ALL HAVING TRAFFIC ISSUES AND PARKING ISSUES, BUT RIGHT NEXT DOOR, WE NOTICED THERE'S A THING LATER. AND HOW IS IT ANY DIFFERENT THAN A CHURCH? AND BECAUSE THE SCENE WOULD NOT INCLUDE THAT PARTICULAR USE IN THEIR, UM, IN THEIR REGULATORY SCHEME, UM, THE COURT DIDN'T LOCK IT. AND SO WE'VE INCLUDED BOTH THE CHURCH AND THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE BECAUSE THERE WILL BE A PORTION OF THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE THAT'S, THAT'S CONSTRUCTED IN OUR NEW PLAN FOR ASSEMBLIES IT'S OUTDOORS, SAME WAYS, BUT NEVERTHELESS, IT'S THE SAME WAYS. AND SO THE WILL HAVE, UM, UM, HALL CREDITS, RANDY'S CREDITS LIVING TO THEM AS WELL AS THE CHARGE THAT'S CURRENTLY THERE. AND THEY'D BEEN IN DACA SAID, IS THAT THE CHURCH WON'T BE THROWN INTO NON-CONFORMANCE STATUS. SO IMPROVED THAT PROPERTY AND IMPROVED THAT PARTICULAR AREA IN WHICH THEY'RE DOING THEIR ASSEMBLY HALL USE, THEY'LL BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT. THE THEATER THAT YOU MENTIONED, SO THEATER IS MARKED SUP ONLY IT SHOULD BE GRANDIOSE THEATER. UM, IT LOOKS LIKE PROPOSAL I'LL USE AS PARKS, THE SMALL SMALL-SCALE OF THEATER AS AN SUP VERSUS THE ASSEMBLY LAND USE DESIGNATION, ASSEMBLY HALL, EXCUSE ME, LAND USE DESIGNATION. OKAY. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER LEFT. IS YOUR HAND STILL UP OR YES, IT IS. UM, I WAS CURIOUS HOW THE CHURCH WOULD BRING WALKABILITY TO THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE IF IT'S ONLY OPEN ON SUNDAYS AND MAYBE LIKE A WEEKDAY. AND THAT MAY BE THE THINKING PART OF THE THINKING IS A WALKABILITY IN ADDITION TO PARKING, UH, IF I'M GOING TO INTERJECT HERE A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE UH, MR. ENGLAND BROUGHT UP, UH, LEGAL NONCONFORMING USE. I WENT DOWN TO THE SUPPLIER, UH, REMOVING THIRTY-FIVE USES, INCLUDING BANK, OFFICE, BUSINESS, AND MEDIA SERVICE TO THREE STATE STREET. UH, LET'S SEE, IS A RENTAL, UH, IS AN OFFICE BUILDING TWO OR THREE FIFTH STREET IS, UH, A CITY BUILDING CITY HOMES, THE FIRST FLOOR IT'S APARTMENTS UP ABOVE. AND SO THERE'S AN OFFICE USE. IT'S NOT ALLOWED, IT'D BE LEGAL NONCONFORMING USE. IF THE, IF THE ONE OFFICE MOVES OUT AND THE CITY DOESN'T MOVE SOMEBODY IN WITHIN 60 DAYS, THEY LOST THAT USE PERMANENTLY, ACCORDING TO THIS, UH, 5 0 5 STATE STATE STREET, IT'S NEW SEED CONSTANTLY AS AN OFFICE USE A 5 0 5, ALSO 5 0 5, ISN'T AN ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. AND OF COURSE WE HAVE FIRST GUARANTY BANK. THEY'RE ALL. NOW, IF THIS PASSES AS IS TRYING TO LEAVE ON THAT CONFORMABLE. NOW, IF THERE IS APPROVAL ISSUE P I WOULD SUGGEST GIVE THEM EACH OF THEM A 50 YEAR SUP IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THIS, I TEND TO NEWNAN, GEORGIA, SEVERAL TIMES. MY, MY SON LIVES THERE AND WE ASPIRE TO BE, AND THERE'S A COMBINATION OF STORES, RESTAURANTS, OFFICES, ATTORNEYS, ACCOUNTANTS, AND STUFF. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE A THREE, THREE USE IS PUT BACK IN AND I'VE CAUGHT WIND OF A VIDEO STUDIO LOOKING TO COME IN DOWNTOWN. AND THAT WOULD NOT QUALIFY EITHER UNDER MEET YOUR SERVICE. SO I THINK THERE ARE AT LEAST THREE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD RECOMMEND TO CONSTANTLY PUT BACK IN BECAUSE IT'S PART OF A DOWNTOWN LIFE, BUT, UH, AGAIN, LEGAL NONCONFORMING USE YET [02:05:01] AS FINANCIAL RAMIFICATIONS AND USE RAMIFICATIONS OR SOMETHING SITS EMPTY FOR AWHILE. AND MR. ENGLAND, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU, MAYBE A TECHNICAL QUESTION IN TERMS OF THE CREDITS, THE THEATER, THE CHURCH, THEY ALL HAVE EXISTING CREDITS. YOU'RE PLANNING ON GIVING THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE A CREDIT FOR SOMETHING THAT ISN'T BUILT YET. HOW WOULD THAT BE DONE? WOULD THE DEADLINE FOR CREDITS BE EXTENDED TO THE POINT WHEN THEY'RE JUST FINALLY CONSTRUCTED AND THOSE CREDITS WOULDN'T BE APPLICABLE. WE WERE TREATED JUST THE SAME AS WITH ANY PRIVATE ENTITY. THAT IS, THE PLAN HAS ALREADY BEEN IN PLACE FOR THE CITY. THERE'S ACTUALLY A PLAN IN PLACE. AND SO WE'LL GO IN AS A VESTED, AS WE SAY, WITH PROVIDENCE THAT GOES IN IT'S THE VESTED RIGHTS. AND SO WE WOULD BASE IT OFF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. IS THAT SHOWN ON THE CURRENT AND FINALLY APPROVED. I KNEW YOU'D HAVE AN ANSWER. I HADN'T THOUGHT OF THIS. I BOUGHT A VAN. I'M JUST NOT THOUGHT OF IT. ALMOST GOT ME. OKAY. YEAH. I'M A FESTIVE RIGHT ADVOCATE AND I WILL SUPPORT YOU ON THAT ONE. ANY, HAVE A DISCUSSION, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SEE, DID I HEAR SOMEBODY? YES, ME. OH, COMMISSIONER ROSE. YOU'RE BEHIND THE CAMERA NOW I'M SEEING ALL THE PICTURES PUT AROUND. SO IT'S LIKE MUSICAL SQUARE TWO. DO I NOT SEE, THERE IS AN EXISTING DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF INPUT THEY GAVE TO THE COUNCILS, UH, COMMITTEE THAT PUT ALL THIS TOGETHER. I THINK THAT'S THE MR. GARRETT QUESTION. I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY FORMAL, UM, OUTREACH. IT WAS, UM, THE COMMITTEE THAT THE ITEM WAS SENT BY COUNCIL TO THE COMMITTEE. WE HAD THAT MEETING AND THEN THE DIRECTION WAS THE NEXT, UM, NEXT FORMAL STEP WAS TAKEN THROUGH THE OFFICIAL CODE. AND THEN THAT PROCESS, WHICH IS PLANK COMMISSION COUNCIL, UM, THAT BEING SAID, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS ALSO THAT THE PLAN IS TO, UM, MEET WITH THE, UM, THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE STAKEHOLDERS, BUSINESS OWNERS, UM, HERE SOON BEFORE IT GOES TO COUNCIL. SO THIS PLAN IS BEING PUSHED FORWARD BY A SUBCOMMITTEE TO THE COUNCIL WITHOUT CONSIDERATION OF ANY OF THE BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN. THEY WANT TO PASS IT AND THEN TALK TO THE BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN. THAT'S KIND OF PUTTING THE HORSE BEFORE THE CART OR THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE OR SOMETHING. WELL, I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT THE PLAN WAS. COMMISSIONER, JUST FROM MY BRIEF CONVERSATIONS WITH A COUPLE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS, THE IDEA IS THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMITTEE AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND THEN TAKE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS OWNERS. AND AT THAT POINT, UM, IF IT NEEDS TO COME BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION AT CANNON, OR IF IT NEEDS TO GO BACK TO MOODLE, IT CAN, OR IT CAN GO STRAIGHT TO THE WORK SESSION FOR COUNCIL. BUT, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS OWNERS WILL BE CONSULTED AND HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR INPUT WILL BE, OR MAYBE, OR MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF THERE. I MEAN, ONCE IT'S, ONCE IT'S BEING MOVED FORWARD. AND I THINK, I MEAN, IT'S JUST, I STILL MAKE THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE AND MR. CHAIRMAN AND TRICIA ROSE, THAT THAT CAN ALSO BE A RECOMMENDATION OF THE COUNCIL OR EXCUSE ME, FROM THE COMMISSION TO THE COUNCIL AND DIRECTION TO STAFF, OF COURSE, TO MEET WITH THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS OWNERS BEFORE IT GOES TO THE FORECAST, MOMMY, THEN WHY CAN'T WE TABLE THIS UNTIL ALL THAT'S DONE AND, UH, IT'S SMOOTHED OUT AND THEN DEAL WITH IT. AND AGAIN, HALF OR MORE OF THE FOLKS THAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK AREN'T HERE. UM, I JUST, I JUST THINK WE'RE GOING TOO FAST AND IT'S GOING QUESTION AND LET'S THEN OPEN IT UP TO, UH, THE PUBLIC BECAUSE I'M CERTAIN THAT WILL GENERATE MORE QUESTIONS HAS JUST BEEN SET IN AS AGENDA ITEM OR IS THE, FOR THE CONSOLE FOR PASSING OUR APPROVAL. AND ARE THEY ANTICIPATING DOING IT HAS NOT BEEN SET AS AN ENGINE DIAL-IN YET. OKAY. AND IS THE TYPICAL PROCESS FOR, TO GO TO THERE A WORK SESSION FIRST, THEN THEY, THEY HAVE TO AGREE TO PUT IT ON THE AGENDA. AND THEN IT GOES TO, WE'RE LOOKING AT A MINIMUM MINIMUM OF A MONTH. THE PROCESS IS IT'LL GO TO WORK SESSION AND THEN IT WILL BE NOT ON THE FOLLOWING [02:10:01] NIGHT, UM, AGENDA FOR THE REGULAR MEETING, BUT ON THE, THE TWO WEEKS LATE LATER FOR THAT, I'M TRYING TO GET SOME KIND OF COMMITMENT THAT WE'RE NOT BEING PART OF A PROCESS TO PUSH IT STRAIGHT THROUGH WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING THE LANDOWNERS THERE IN A PROPER MANNER. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY ARE THE BED. THE CITY IS GOING TO MEET WITH THE LAND OWNERS PRIOR TO FINAL COUNCIL APPROVAL ON THIS, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE INPUT. I HEAR THAT'S A COMMITMENT THAT I KNOW THERE'S A COMMITMENT OF, AT LEAST AT LEAST COUPLE OF OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS. UM, UH, I BELIEVE STAFF HAS COMMITTED THAT SAME PROCESS. OKAY. ALRIGHTY. UH, IF I CAN, LET'S GO AHEAD AND OPEN IT UP TO THE NOW TRACY, YOU CAN JUST BRING THEM ON ONE AT A TIME. HOWEVER, HOWEVER IT WORKS OUT. OKAY. OUR FIRST SPEAKER WILL BE THOMAS BAILEY. ALRIGHTY. AND AGAIN, AS USUAL, WE'LL NEED YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, MR. BAILEY. OKAY. I'M HERE. DOES ANYBODY HERE? YES. OH YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. UH, THOMAS BAILEY OFFICES, UM, SIX 14 IN MAINE AND GARLAND. I LIVE IN DALLAS AT 1 0 2, 2 OH CHESTERTON. I'M WITH A AND S PROPERTIES AND WE OWN ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN PROPERTIES IN DOWNTOWN GARLAND, UM, THROUGH TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES. UM, IN PARTICULAR, WE ON THE CORNER OF MAIN STREET AND SIXTH STREET, WHICH HOUSES A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION IN A BUILDING THAT WAS BUILT FOR A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION AND A BUILDING THAT WAS BUILT FOR OFFICES. AND SO BASICALLY VIRTUALLY EVERYONE IN THAT BUILDING WILL NOW BE NONCONFORMING. UM, THAT PARTICULAR BRANCH IS, UM, WE UNDERSTAND ONE OF THE MOST, UH, SUCCESSFUL TEXAS BRANCHES. THAT BANK IS ZONED BY A GROUP THAN THEY ARE PRIMARILY TEXAS AND LOUISIANA. SO, UM, MOST OF HIS PRICE, HE IS SLEEPY LITTLE BANK, BUT IT'S THE FLAGSHIP BANK IN THE STATE OF TEXAS FOR FIRST KENNEDY BANK. AND OUR CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT THIS DOES IF THEY WANT TO BRING IN, UM, ADDITIONAL OFFICES FOR, UM, MORTGAGE LENDING OR OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT, UH, WITH IT BEING NON-CONFORMING AND THEN THAT'S PRETTY MUCH RULED OUT. UM, THE BUILDING WAS BUILT FOR A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION THAT HAS INVOLVED IN REDOING THE BUILDING WOOD TO MAKE IT RETAIL IS A VERY COSTLY AND HIGHLY IMPROBABLE. SO BASED ON THAT BUILDING ALONE, WE W WE FEEL LIKE THIS IS A LITTLE BIT FAR REACHING, UM, AND UNDERSTAND THAT AND TOTALLY AGREE. I MEAN, WE, WE OWN THE BUILDING WHERE DOS BANDERA SAYS WE, UM, OWN OTHER BUILDINGS THAT HAVE RETAIL DOWN THERE. AND SO IDEA THAT WE WANT THE DOWNTOWN TO BE A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE WALKING AND COMING IN AND USING THOSE RETAIL FACILITIES, WE TOTALLY ARE BEHIND THAT, BUT WE JUST FELT THIS AS A LITTLE BIT FAR REACHING WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU RELAPSED FINANCIAL SERVICES AND, UM, OFFICE USE, UM, PRETTY MUCH, PRETTY MUCH MAKING STEP PARTICULAR BUILDING OBSOLETE. UM, WE HAVE CONCERNS WITH, UM, ASSEMBLIES NOT BEING, UM, ALLOWED AT ONE POINT IN TIME, THE GARLAND OPERA WAS DOWNTOWN, WHICH IF IT'S AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT AND A MUSIC VENUE, SMALL MUSIC VENUE, UM, SHOULD, SHOULD FIT INTO, UM, WHAT'S ON THE SQUARE, IN MY OPINION. UM, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THE, THE TOWN PEOPLE THINK ABOUT IT BEING MUSIC WAS FIDDLING AROUND THE SQUARE AND WITH THE DAWN OPERA, I HAVEN'T BEEN THERE. AND NOW WITH THE MUSIC THAT TAKES PLACE IN AND TURNS IT, IT CAN AT THE PIECE OF PIZZA RESTAURANT AND THEN ULTIMATELY IT KIND OF WHAT'S PLANNED WITH THE BAND SHELL ON, ON THE SQUARE. SO, UH, I THINK THAT, UH, IT'S A LITTLE BIT FAR REACHING AT THIS POINT, THE WAY IT'S STRUCTURED YOU FOR YOUR INPUT. AND YOU BROUGHT UP A POINT THAT I MEANT TO MENTION IS WE HAVE BUILDINGS WITH TWO STORIES AND NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, GO AHEAD TO THE SKETCH FOR ADDING A SECOND FLOOR TO A PORTION OF ONCE ONE PART OF ONE STREET FOR APARTMENTS AND OR OFFICES, AND TO PRECLUDE OFFICES AND BUSINESSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK WOULD BE A DISSERVICE TO FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS HAVING A DISCUSSION. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR. AND THAT'S WHAT THE COUNCIL WANTS TO HEAR TOO. SO, AND, UH, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM MR. BAILEY? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING DOWN. YOU BET. ALRIGHTY. NEXT, OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS ALAN STAFFORD. MR. STAFFORD [02:15:01] FUEL ON MUTE YOURSELF. GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS MY NAME'S ALAN STAFFORD. I'M HERE WITH MY WIFE, SARAH STAFFORD. UH, WE HAVE RESIDED AT ONE 20 WEST AVENUE D SINCE 1979. THIS IS A HOUSE THAT HAS SKULL ROACH AND RUTH ROACH WERE BORN HERE. YEAH, I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT OF GARLANDS SINCE 1949. I MIGHT BE THE OLDEST ONE ON THIS ZOOM RIGHT NOW, AND I'M A GRADUATE OF FREEMAN ELEMENTARY, BUSEY JUNIOR HIGH AND GARLAND HIGH SCHOOL. I'M TRYING TO MAKE A POINT HERE. I'VE BEEN AROUND GARLAND INSTITUTIONS ALL MY LIFE. I MOVED MY LAW OFFICE GARLAND WHEN I WAS LICENSED IN 1973. I MOVED MY OFFICE TO THE SQUARE AT 5 0 5 STATE STREET IN 1977. I THINK THAT'S 44 YEARS AGO. I'M STARTING TO LEARN THAT I MUST NOT BE A VERY GOOD CITIZEN CITIES WANTING TO ELIMINATE ME AND, AND THE USE OF MY OFFICE. I JUST THOUGHT A SECOND GOING, I'LL HAVE TO VERIFY THIS, BUT I THINK I PAID FOR A HISTORICAL DESIGNATION FOR MY OFFICE AS AN OFFICE. AND I'LL CHECK THAT OUT AND BRING IT UP, BUT THE CITY CAN ELIMINATE THAT AT ANY TIME. I'M SURE THE TWO THINGS I KEEP HEARING FROM THE CITY OFFICIALS IS THE GAR GARLAND DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION ASKED TO ELIMINATE GENERAL OFFICE USE DOWNTOWN. UH, THAT'S A SURPRISE TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE A MEMBER OF THAT ORGANIZATION. AND THE OTHER THING I KEEP HEARING, ALTHOUGH I APPRECIATE THE CITY ATTORNEY IS THAT THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONFORMING AND NON-CONFORMING AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. IT WON'T, YOU CAN KEEP USING THAT BUILDING. SO, UH, I GUESS THAT'S STRAIGHTENED UP NOW BY THE CITY ATTORNEY TONIGHT THAT THERE IS A DETRIMENT TO NON-CONFORMING USE MY OFFICE USED TO DOESN'T HARM GARLAND. UH, IT, UH, UH, I PICK UP THE TRASH, I KEEP IT IN GOOD CONDITION. I'M A GOOD NEIGHBOR. AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE LEARNED THAT I'M A BAD NEIGHBOR DON'T BELONG HERE. UH, I, I JUST THINK IT WOULD BE WISE FOR THE CITY, AS YOU CAN MAKE. SOME OF YOU HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED, UH, TO KEEP OFFICE ZONING ON THE SQUARE. AND I THINK IT'D BE ODD FOR GARLAND TO BE THE ONLY CITY OF ITS SIZE TO ELIMINATE OFFICES. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER LUCK. WOULD YOU BE SORRY, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO, UH, IMPROVE THE AESTHETICS OF YOUR FACADE AND, AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THEY ARE TRYING TO RENOVATE THE SQUARE FOR ME, ASK YOU TO BE MORE SPECIFIC. IT'S PROBABLY FOR ANOTHER VENUE. UH, WE'RE, WE'RE DISCUSSING, UH, WE CAN TALK TO HIM LATER ABOUT, UH, IMPROVING. CAUSE I THINK EVERYBODY WANTS EVERYTHING ALONG THE SQUARE MADE FOR CHANGES AT THE CITY'S REQUEST OVER THE YEARS I'VE BEEN THERE. SO IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THE FIFTH ONE, YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS. THE CITY WANTS THIS TIME. I HEAR YOU, NEW PEOPLE COME IN AND THINK THEY HAVE GREAT IDEAS AND WE PAY FOR IT. AND A NEW GROUP COMES IN AND A NEW GROUP COMES IN. THANK YOU. LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU WANT, BUT I'VE SERVED ON A NUMBER OF DOWNTOWN COMMITTEES AND THE, DO WE DO AWNINGS? DO WE NOT DO AWNINGS? DO WE DO HONEY? DO WE NOT DO WEDDINGS? DO WE HAVE STUFF? YEAH. WELL WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING DOWN THERE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, MR. STAFFORD, THANK YOU FOR COMING, COMING DOWN NEXT. I WONDER IF HE HAS ANY RELATION, HOW TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO UNMUTE THE CHAIR COMMISSION. UH, COMMISSIONER'S 5 0 5 WEST STATE STREET. [02:20:01] UM, AND IF I HAD KNOWN THAT THIS WAS A PARKING ISSUE IN FRONT OF OUR OFFICE, THERE'S ABOUT 10 CARS PARKED DAILY THAT ARE CITY EMPLOYEES OR RESIDENTS OF THE APARTMENTS ABOVE THE OFFICE. YOU KNOW, IF THE CITY TAKES CARE OF THEIR OWN PARKING PROBLEM, MAYBE YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE THE ZONING OF EVERYBODY ELSE. UM, ANYWAYS, NINE DAYS AGO THAT THE CITY WALKED INTO OUR OFFICE AND HANDED US THE FORM AND SAID, THERE'S GOING TO BE A HEARING TO CHANGE YOUR ZONING, BUT DON'T WORRY. IT'S NOT GOING TO AFFECT YOU. UM, AND I, YOU KNOW, I FOLLOWED ZONING CASES AND I DIDN'T SEE ANY SIGNS POSTED AROUND THE SQUARE THAT GIVING US A HEADS UP OR ANYTHING POSTED, UM, WHICH TYPICALLY HAPPENS. UH, TH TH THE NEW ZONING THAT'S BEING PROPOSED IS NOT ALLOW MANY THINGS INCLUDING OFFICES, WHICH WE'VE HAD FOR LONGER THAN I'VE BEEN ALIVE. UM, AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I'M WORKED IN A HUNDRED, OVER 150 DOWNTOWNS THROUGHOUT TEXAS AND THE LAST TWO YEARS. AND YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S NOT A RESTAURANT THERE'S MAYBE STILL A BARBERSHOP, IF NOT A BARBERSHOP, A BANK, IF NOT A BANK FARM BUREAU, IF NOT A FARM BUREAU AND EVERYTHING'S BOARDED UP, THERE'S STILL AN OFFICE. SO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE THAT WE'RE TARGETED IN THE FUTURE. UM, NOW THE, THE CITY HAS TOLD US, WELL, DON'T WORRY. IF YOU MOVE OUT, YOU STILL HAVE SIX MONTHS TO, TO F TO REPLACE IT WITH THE OFFICE. UM, YOU WON'T BE NONCONFORMING UNLESS IT GOES AFTER SIX MONTHS AND THEY THEY'VE TOLD US, WE'LL JUST KEEP A DESK AND COMPUTER IN THERE. I DIDN'T APPRECIATE THEM TELLING US TO BE DISHONEST, TO TRY AND GET BY ZONING. UM, ASKED, ALSO ASK THE CITY IF THEY COULD, BEFORE THIS MEETING INCLUDE OFFICE. AND THEY SAID, NO, IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSIONERS TO ADD IT, UH, TO MAKE THE CHANGE, MAKE THE PROPOSAL THAT THE CITY HAD NO INPUT OR, UH, UH, ABILITY TO CHANGE IT AHEAD OF TIME, WHICH I TYPICALLY THINK THE CITY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT. UM, I HAVEN'T MET A PERSON ON THE SQUARE, A BUSINESS OWNER, OR A BUILDING OWNER. THOSE FOR THE ZONING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT BACKROOM IS DECIDING THIS, OR WROTE IT UP, BUT THERE'S NO ONE ON THE SQUARE. THERE'S THAT? YES, I'M FOR IT. WE'RE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SPEECHES, BUT I THINK MOST OF THE 16, WE'RE ALL GOING TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION. SO THAT SHOULD LISTEN TO US THAT THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THE, THE, THE STAKEHOLDERS STAND. BUT IF YOU DO GO AHEAD AND PASS IT, I WOULD ASK THAT YOU DO INCLUDE, UM, OFFICE SPACE AND NOT EVEN PUT AN STP OFFICE SPACE CAUSE THAT THAT STILL DECREASES OUR LAND VALUE. AND MY THOUGHT IS ONE OF MY, YOU KNOW, MY GRANDFATHER WORKED IN THIS OFFICE. MY DAD WORKED IN THE SOFT, OUR WORK IN THIS OFFICE. WHAT IF 30 YEARS FROM NOW? MY, MY SON IS A GEOLOGIST, BUT THE CURRENT MAYOR'S AGAINST OIL AND GAS AND SAYS NO TO THAT. SUP UM, SO W WE JUST, IT TAKES AWAY CONTROL FROM US. IT'S A LITTLE OVERREACHING, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. WELL, AGAIN, WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT AND IF WE DO LISTEN TO IT AND I'M PRETTY CERTAIN CONSOLE WILL BE LISTENING TO IT TOO. ALRIGHTY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING DOWN. I SEE NO QUESTIONS FOR YOU, TRACY. NEXT ONE, PLEASE. NEXT SPEAKER IS CRAIG WILSON, NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE? UM, MY NAME IS CRAIG WILSON. I RESIDE AT 9 1 0 2 ROYAL BOURGES DRIVE IN ROLLA, TEXAS. UM, I'M ACTUALLY HERE JUST IN SUPPORT, UH, OF MY PASTOR. WHO'S ABOUT TO SPEAK. I'M THE TEACHING PASTOR AT LIFE, WORLD CHURCH, THE CHURCH THAT'S BEING REFERENCED QUITE A BIT THIS EVENING. UM, AND I'M JUST, I'M HERE AS, UH, AS HERE JUST TO SUPPORT WHAT HE HAS TO SAY AND WHAT THE OTHERS HAVE SAID SO FAR. UM, I WILL SAY THAT EVEN THOUGH I RESIDE IN ROLLA NOW THAT, UM, I WAS A TEACHER AND GOING ISD FOR 16 YEARS AND LIVED IN GARLAND FOR, UH, 38 YEARS OF MY LIFE. UH, SO IT'S, IT'S A BIG PART OF MY FAMILY. AND I THINK THE PROPOSAL THAT, UM, THAT IS BEING CONSIDERED, ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND IT, I, I DO, I, I DO UNDERSTAND WHY, UM, THIS IS BEING PROPOSED, BUT I THINK, I THINK IT WOULD BE WISE FOR THE CITY TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SPEAKING TONIGHT THAT REPRESENT MANY FACETS OF GARLAND IN THIS COMMUNITY. UM, COME FROM DIFFERENT [02:25:01] WALKS OF LIFE, BUT ARE UNIFIED IN OPPOSING THIS. I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY WISE. SO THAT'S ALL I HAD TO SAY. I'M REALLY JUST HERE TO LISTEN AND TO SUPPORT, UH, MY PASTOR HERE IN A MOMENT. THANK YOU. NEXT SPEAKER IS DARYL HALL, MR. HALL? YES, SIR. HOW ARE YOU ALL DOING TODAY? OH, WE'RE DOING OKAY. GOOD. JUST WANTED TO CHECK AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY COULD HEAR ME. I WANT TO HIT AND RUN MY COMMENTS DOWN BECAUSE I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE STAYED UNDER THE THREE MINUTE TIME LIMIT. UM, I WANT TO EXPRESS MY APPRECIATION FOR, UH, HAVING AN OPEN MEETING LIKE THIS AND PERMITTING US TO GIVE OUR INPUT, UM, BECAUSE THIS DOES SEEM RATHER PRECIPITATE. UH, IT HIT ME RATHER SUDDENLY LAST WEEK. UH, I WAS NOTIFIED BY ACTUALLY MY BROTHER, PASTOR ACROSS THE STREET AT CHRISTIANA, WHO WAS CONCERNED THAT THIS MIGHT AFFECT THEIR BUILDING. AND, UH, HE SAID, BROTHER, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THEY WANT TO GET RID OF US? AND, UH, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON. SO SUDDENLY WE GET A LETTER AND THEN THE OWNERS ARE YOU SPOKE TO THE AGENT, UH, FOR OUR, UH, LANDLORDS JUST A MOMENT AGO WHERE HE WAS THE FIRST ONE TO SPEAK. UH, THOMAS BAILEY. THEY DIDN'T EVEN GET THE LETTER UNTIL AFTER WE GOT THE LETTER. SO HERE ARE MY COMMENTS. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE PROPOSED ZONING CHANGE GETS AT THE HEART OF A VERY REAL DIFFERENCE IN PHILOSOPHY OF GOVERNMENT. THE FOUNDERS OF THE UNITED STATES BELIEVE THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. ALL PEOPLE ARE CREATED EQUAL AND ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS AMONG THESE ARE LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. SO I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD THAT FROM THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE YET TODAY, WE FIND THAT IN MANY GOVERNMENT, MANY IN GOVERNMENT BELIEVED THAT THEY HAVE THE POWER TO GIVE CITIZENS RIGHTS OR DENIED THEM DEPENDING UPON THEIR AGENDA. LET US BE VERY CLEAR. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN GOVERNMENT GETS ITS AUTHORITY FROM THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNMENT, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. AND I AM THANKFUL THAT YOU ALL HAVE CALLED FOR AN OPEN MEETING TO DISCUSS THE PRESENT ISSUE. SO HOPEFULLY OUR RIGHTS ARE STILL INTACT. THE CURRENT EFFORT TO AMEND THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE ZONING REGULATIONS WOULD BY FIAT AMEND ZONING TO PROHIBIT CHURCHES FROM MEETING REGULARLY ON THE SQUARE, UNLESS THEY OBTAINED CERTAIN PERMISSION FROM THE CITY BASED UPON SOME CHIT SYSTEM CALLED QUILT LAND USE CREDITS, UNQUOTE, WHICH I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND. AND HASN'T BEEN EXPLAINED YET WELL, ON WHAT BASIS THEN ON WHAT STANDARD, IT'S SIMPLY WRONG. THOSE WHO OWN PROPERTY IN GARLAND HAVE THE RIGHT TO LEASE TO TENANTS. THEY TRUST NOT TO THOSE WHOM THE CITY GOVERNMENT DEEMS APPROPRIATE LIFE WILL. CHURCH HAS BEEN IN DOWNTOWN GARLAND SINCE 2004. WE WERE CALLED SIAM BACK THEN, BUT I'VE BEEN THE PASTOR ALL ALONE. WE CAME HERE BECAUSE I BELIEVE GOD WANTED US TO SERVE OUR CITIZENS FROM THIS AREA. OUR SERVICE IS NEITHER POLITICALLY PARTISAN, NOR RELIGIOUSLY SECTARIAN. WE PROCLAIM THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS TO EVERYONE. WE WANT ALL PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO LIVE WELL. WE HAVE LONG ANTICIPATED POSITIVE CHANGES AND INCREASED TRAFFIC IN DOWNTOWN. FINALLY, PROGRESS IS HAPPENING. WE'RE GRATEFUL. WE'RE READY TO SERVE. WILL WE BE FORCED TO LEAVE? NO, WE SUBLET FROM THE GARLAND OPERA IN 2007 AND MADE THE FORMER HOME OF THE MASONS AND MCKNIGHT DRUG STORE ON THE SQUARE AT SIXTH AND STATE OUR OWN. IN 2009, WE HAVE SERVED THE CITIZENS OF BERLIN AND SOUGHT TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS, TO ALL OF OUR DOWNTOWN BUSINESS FRIENDS. DURING THAT TIME, THERE ARE A FEW TENANTS WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE SQUARE LONGER. ALTHOUGH THE ATTORNEY WHO SPOKE TO YOU, CERTAINLY WE HELP THE HOMELESS. WE'RE INVOLVED IN EVENTS LIKE THE LABOR DAY PARADE AND CHRISTMAS ON THE SQUARE. WE COOPERATE WITH THE CITY IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY. WE HAVE NEVER BEEN NEGATIVE OR TRIED TO STAND AGAINST DOWNTOWN, UH, PROGRESS AND POSITIVE CHANGE. IN FACT, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE SPOKEN TO A POST SOMETHING OUR CITY GOVERNMENT HAS PROPOSED. HOPEFULLY YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY LIFE WILL CHURCH'S COMMITMENT TO THE CITIZENS OF GOVERNMENT AND OUR CONSTANT COOPERATION WITH CITY GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT RATHER THAN DISCOUNTED BY THOSE WHO HAVE MAY HAVE A VARIETY OF MOTIVES FOR SEEING US LEAVE OUR HISTORIC BUILDING. I PROMISE YOU WE DON'T PLAN ON GOING ANYWHERE UNTIL GOD WHO CALLED US TO DOWNTOWN GARVIN CLEARLY GIVES US ANOTHER MISSION AND ANOTHER REAL THING. AND I DO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LISTENING THIS EVENING. WELL THANK YOU FOR COMING ON DOWN. WE APPRECIATE IT THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT. UH, IT WOULD HAVE NO EFFECT ON YOUR RIGHTS AND SPACE DOWN THERE AT THE MOMENT. AND, AND IF YOU STAY, YOU'RE STAYING THERE FOREVER, YOU CAN STAY THERE FOREVER. SO IF YOU GOT THAT IMPRESSION THAT YOU'RE BEING KICKED OUT FROM WHAT I READ AND, UM, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THAT WOULD NOT BE HAPPENING WELL, WE, WE ARE DEFINITELY GETTING THE IMPRESSION THAT WE'RE NOT WANTED HERE. WE ARE CLEARLY VERY CLEARLY STATE CHURCHES. YOU DON'T WANT CHURCHES HERE. AND I UNDERSTAND THE PARKING ISSUE. YOU KNOW, MY QUESTION IS, AND I WASN'T GONNA BRING THIS IN, BUT PARK PARKING HAS GIVEN US THE PRIMARY REASON [02:30:01] FOR THIS. ANY BUSINESS OR ORGANIZATION DOWNTOWN GARLAND RECOGNIZES, WE NEED MORE PARKING. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THE CITY HAS NEVER SUCCESSFULLY SUPPLIED. TWO PARKING GARAGES WERE BUILT WHEN THE FIFTH STREET CROSSING, UH, APARTMENTS PHASE ONE AND TWO WERE BUILT. WE WERE TOLD THAT THAT WOULD SUPPLY MORE PARKING IN MY EXPERIENCE, FEWER THAN 10 SPACES PER GARAGE. AND OFTEN FEWER THAN THAT ARE AVAILABLE. THERE WAS ONCE FREE PARKING AVAILABLE IN THE DIRT LOT NEXT TO VISUAL AID VOLUNTEERS. NOW IT'S CHAINED OFF AND UNAVAILABLE HAS THE CITY OFFERED TO BUY THAT LOT AND PART IT PAVE IT FOR PARKING AS THE CITY OFFERED TO BUY OTHER PROPERTY THAT WOULD SUPPLY PARKING. I'LL LEAVE YOU ALL TO ANSWER THAT AND DEBATE THOSE QUESTIONS. THAT'S NOT MY PURPOSE HERE, BUT IT SEEMS THAT THERE IS A BELIEF THAT PROHIBITING QUOTE UNQUOTE ASSEMBLIES IS THE ANSWER TO THE PARKING PROBLEM. HOW ABOUT THE PLAZA THEATER? IF THERE'S NO PARKING AVAILABLE IN DOWNTOWN, IT IS OFTEN DUE TO A QUOTE UNQUOTE ASSEMBLY GOING ON THERE. IT SEATS 320 TWENTY-FIVE PLUS, AND THOSE FOLKS HAVE TO PARK SOMEWHERE. SO ARE YOU ALL GOING TO REGULATE THAT CITY OWNED VENUE THE SAME WAY YOU PROPOSED TO REGULATE OTHER ASSEMBLIES, THE CITY REGULARLY SHUTS DOWN THE SQUARE AND LIMITS PARKING. ARE YOU GOING TO REGULATE THAT AS WELL? LISTEN, I DON'T ADVOCATE LIMITING THE PLAZA, UH, WHY FOR THE SAME REASON THAT I DON'T WANT YOU TO REGULATE OUR CHURCH OUT OF EXISTENCE WITH YOUR AMENDMENT, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO, AND SO DO WE, THIS IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, BY THE WAY, GUARANTEED. IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HERE AND WE DO, WE DO PROMOTE A VIBRANT PEDESTRIAN ORIENTED FAMILY ENVIRONMENT. YOU SHOULD LOOK AT A FEW OF THE BUSINESSES THAT HAVE GONE IN RECENTLY AND ASK YOURSELF IF THEY ARE PROMOTING A FAMILY ENVIRONMENT. WE CERTAINLY BRING TRAFFIC DOWN HERE. AND THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO OUR CHURCH GO AND THEY GO TO DOS VENDORS AND THEY GO TO INTRINSIC. THEY GO ACROSS THE STREET TO THE TAVERN ON OCCASION. WE'RE HERE ON MORE THAN JUST SUNDAY MORNING OCCASIONS. AND WE DRIVE TRAFFIC DOWN HERE AND OUR PEOPLE PAY MONEY TO BE PART OF THOSE BUSINESSES. IN FACT, RIGHT NEXT TO ME, THERE IS A, A FITNESS STUDIO THAT'S GOING IN AND I'M ENCOURAGING OUR LADIES IN PARTICULAR, IT'S CALLED INTO THE WELL, AND THEY HAVE ALL KINDS OF OPPORTUNITIES. I'M ENCOURAGING OUR LADIES IN PARTICULAR, GO OVER THERE, GET UP THERE, LET'S GET INVOLVED. THAT'S WHAT WE ALWAYS WANT TO DO. WE WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN WHAT OUR CITY'S DOING. WE DON'T WANT TO BE THOUGHT OF AS SOMETHING THAT, UH, DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE HERE. WE DESERVE TO BE HERE AS MUCH AS ANY OTHER BUSINESS DESERVES TO BE HERE. SO SORRY. THAT'S WHERE OVER MY THREE MINUTES. THAT'S NO PROBLEM. LOOK FORWARD TO YOU BEING HERE A LONG, LONG, LONG TIME. ALL RIGHT, SPEAKER. HELLO? CAN YOU HEAR ME? YOU HAVE TO COME HERE. I FEEL LIKE A RADIO SHOW HOST. REMEMBER WHEN HE USED TO SAY, AM I A WINNER? WHAT'S YOUR SONG REQUEST? YES, CARRIE HOTSON, UM, 12, 19 SATURN SPRINGS. UM, I DON'T THE BUILDINGS AT FIVE AND SEVEN AND 5 0 9 WEST STATE STREET KNOWN AS INTRINSIC AND OUR BEER GARDEN. I SERVE ON THE TIP BOARD, WHICH DOES NOT HAVE AS LONG AS MEETINGS AS YOU GUYS, BY THE WAY. I'M ALSO THE GARLAND DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION CHAIR. UM, THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS. AND I, I DO APPRECIATE, UH, THE COUNCIL COMMITTEE THAT ALSO PUT THE ZONING IN FRONT OF US TO TALK ABOUT, UM, I'M NOT SUSPECTING ANY PRIVATE AGENDAS, ET CETERA. I KNOW THAT, UM, THE BUSINESS ASSOCIATION AND, YOU KNOW, DIRECT LIGHT OF THE SOURCE CLINIC, POTENTIALLY BUYING THE GARLAND FRIENDSHIP, BUILDING ASKED THAT WE LOOK AT ZONING TO, UH, IMPROVE IT IN A WAY THAT WAS MORE, MORE FRIENDLY TO ENTERTAINMENT AND DID NOT ALLOW SOME USES THAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE INCREDIBLY DETRIMENTAL TO THE PROGRESS AND THE PUBLIC INVESTMENT OF THE GARLAND SQUARE. BUT THAT BEING SAID, THE GDB HAS NOT FORMALLY DISCUSSED, UM, THIS, UH, ANNOUNCEMENT OR THIS AMENDMENT. UH, WE DIDN'T RECEIVE IT FORMALLY AS A GROUP AND GIVEN THE TIMELINE, WE HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO REALLY DISCUSS IT. SO CERTAINLY THERE ARE BUSINESSES THAT SERVE ON THE BOARD, UM, AND ARE PART OF THE ORGANIZATION THAT MAY HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. BUT I CAN'T REPRESENT THAT AS CHAIR BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT TALKED TO IT. UM, PERSONALLY, I THINK WE DO NEED TO TARGET ENTERTAINMENT, UM, BUT BE CAREFUL NOT TO RESTRICT, UM, ASSEMBLY AND OFFICE USES, UH, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE UPSTAIRS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'VE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME. AND WHEN WE'RE, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M STILL CONFUSED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PERFORMING ARTS YES. AND THEATER. NO. AND YOU KNOW, [02:35:01] WELL, WHAT IF THE PLAZA DID GO INTO PRIVATE HANDS AND WANT TO BE A RE A RENEWED HISTORIC THEATER? I SEE THAT AS A POSITIVE, UM, I'M IN FAVOR OF THE SEP PROCESS ACTUALLY. UM, I THINK IT'S A GOOD WAY TO PUMP THE BRAKES AND CONSIDER NEW IDEAS. I TYPICALLY TRUST OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT MORE THAN, UM, BROADER GOVERNMENTS. UH, I'D LIKE TO SEE ZONING CONSIDERED ACTUALLY FOR A LARGER AREA THAN THIS KIND OF CUT UP PIECE. MAYBE THAT'LL RUFFLE EVEN MORE FEATHERS AND IS EVEN MORE IMPOSSIBLE. I'M NOT SURE, BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO QUOTE UNQUOTE, PROTECT THE INVESTMENT ON THE DOWNTOWN AREA AND THE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT, WHY NOT BE IN TIRE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT? UM, ALSO SAW IN THERE FLEA MARKETS. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S RELATED TO A CEO OR TWO EVENTS, BUT MY FAMILY HAS HOSTED THE URBAN FLEA NOW KNOWN AS THE URBAN MARKET, UH, FOR SEVERAL YEARS ON SQUARE AND BROUGHT A LOT OF PEOPLE. AND I THINK HELPED A LOT OF BUSINESSES DOWN TOWN, INCLUDING MY OWN, UM, DWELLINGS, CAN WE, CAN WE NOT HAVE AN APARTMENT UPSTAIRS? UM, I, I DON'T SEE AN ISSUE WITH THAT AT ALL. UM, AND ANTIQUE STORE. WHY, WHY INDOORS ONLY? WHAT DOES THAT CONSIDER IF YOU PUT ONE RACK OF CLOTHING OUTSIDE OF A CLOTHING STORE THAT'S OKAY. BUT IF YOU PUT, YOU KNOW, ONE, YOU KNOW, ANTIQUE OUTSIDE OF AN ANTIQUE STORES THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN OUT, OKAY, I'M JUST KIND OF CONFUSED. I THINK A LOT OF US ARE GETTING OUT. WE NEED TO SLOW DOWN A SECOND AND LOOK, AND LOOK AT THIS. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I DO UNDERSTAND THE URGENCY. IF SOMEONE COMES IN WANTING TO PUT IN A CLINIC OR, OR SOMETHING THAT, UM, GENERALLY THE PUBLIC WOULD DISAGREE IF WE NEED TO BE PROACTIVE ABOUT, ABOUT ZONING IN GENERAL. UM, BUT THAT PRETTY MUCH SUMS UP MY OPINION. I KNOW THERE'S, THIS HAS BEEN A LOT TO DISCUSS AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. NO, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. AND I THINK YOU ALSO WROTE IN, CAUSE I, I DID SEE SOMEBODY ELSE QUESTIONED THE BOUNDARY, WANTING TO EXPAND IT A LITTLE BIT, UH, UH, THAT HASN'T COME UP HERE. DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANY QUESTIONS? UH, MR. GARREN, I HAVE ONE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, SHORT-TERM MEMORY MIGHT AS WELL ASK IT, W YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE GET A COUPLE OF OTHER PEOPLE DOWN THE ROAD, HOW WOULD THIS POSSIBLY AFFECT EVENTS IN THE SQUARE? IF, UH, WE HAD PEOPLE COME VENDORS CERTAIN DAYS OUTSIDE STORAGE OF NEW OR USED, UH, WOULD, WOULD ANY OF THESE RESTRICTIONS AFFECT THE ABILITY OF THE VIEW THAT I SEE? UH, NO HEAD SHAKING FROM THE CITY. I SAID, YEAH, I SAY THE SAME THING. SO, UM, I'M GOING TO FOLLOW IS SHAKING HER HEAD NOW. I MEAN, THESE WOULD BE SPECIAL EVENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, IF MR. AD BEYOND THAT INTERPRETATION OF REASONING, UM, YOU KNOW, FEEL FREE TO, BUT, UM, NO, SIR, NO, I FIGURED THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEARER THAT, YOU KNOW, BY DOING THIS, WE WEREN'T RESTRICTING EVENTS IN THE SQUARE THAT DO BRING PEOPLE DOWN AT FREQUENT FACILITIES. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, TRACY. NEXT WE HAVE NO OTHER SPEAKERS. OKAY. SINCE WE HAVE NO OTHER SPEAKERS, UNLESS WE WANT TO HEAR A REBUTTAL FROM THE APPLICANTS, I GUESS IT'S TO THE COMMISSION TO DISCUSS, UH, COMMISSIONER DALTON LEAVE. NO, YOU'RE BEHIND THE CAMERA. I SAW SOME I HAND-RAISED THERE. YES, SIR. THAT WAS ME. I JUST WANT TO SAY SEVERAL YEARS AGO, WE WENT THROUGH THE GARLAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. WE SPENT MANY HOURS IN PUBLIC MEETINGS BEING BRIEFED BY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. WE SPENT MANY HOURS BEING BRIEF WITH CITY COUNCIL BY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. WE WENT THROUGH PUBLIC HEARINGS. WE TRIED EVERY WAY IN THE WORLD TO MAKE SURE WE GET THE BEST WE COULD IN PUTTING THE GARLAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TOGETHER. SHORTLY AFTER THAT, WE GET A REQUEST FROM BUSINESSES ON MAIN STREET, JUST OFF GARLAND AVENUE. IT HAD BEEN REZONED AS RESIDENCES IN THE PROCESS CAUSING PROBLEM OF THEM NOT BEING ABLE TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS ANYMORE FROM WHAT WAS FORMERLY A RESIDENCE AND WAS NOW A BUSINESS. WE KIND OF MISSED UP ON THAT A LITTLE BIT. WE SURE DON'T WANT TO MESS UP ON THIS. AND I'M AFRAID WITH WHAT I'M SEEING, WHAT I'M HEARING. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME EDITING DONE AND MORE DISCUSSION OF WHAT'S GOING TO BE ALLOWED OR NOT ALLOWED AND [02:40:01] HOW THAT'S GOING TO BE WORKED OUT IN THE DOWNTOWN. SUB-DISTRICT I'M JUST READY TO TAKING ACTION TO NOT, THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING, RIGHT? COMMISSIONER LOWE. SO I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED ABOUT HOW, UH, THE SIX MONTH THING WORKS. SO IF, UH, IF A BUSINESS, LET'S JUST SAY THE STAFFORD LAW FIRM, IF THEY LEFT THE PREMISES FOR SIX MONTHS, THEN THEY COULDN'T COME BACK AND HAVE IT AS AN OFFICE. IS THAT HOW THAT WORKS OR WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO HAVE IT AS THIS THE ENTIRE TIME? I'M NOT REALLY SURE. THE, I'M NOT REALLY SURE EXACTLY HOW THIS IS WORKING. IF THE COUNCIL WERE TO, UM, APPROVE THE, THE COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDATION AS WRITTEN NOW AND MADE OFFICE, UM, MOOSE, A NON-CONFORMING USE, THEN THE GC HANDLES NON-CONFORMING USES A CERTAIN WAY. ONE IT'S IT'S THE ABANDONMENT OF THAT USE AND SIX MONTHS IS A PRIVATE THING, SO THEY SHOULD KEEP SCORE, UM, UM, TO SHOW THAT A PARTICULAR LAND USE HAS THE ADVANTAGE. WHAT THAT MEANS IS, IS THAT WE CAN PROVE IF THE CITY COULD PROVE, UM, IMMEDIATE STANDARD OF PROOF THAT THEY'D BEEN OUT OF BUSINESS FOR SIX MONTHS, UM, UH, THEN WE COULD SHOW THAT IT'S ABANDONED AND THEY WOULD LOSE THEIR NONCONFORMING STATUS THAT WOULD NEED THAT, THAT THEY WOULD NO LONGER BE ABLE TO USE THAT BUILDING AS AN OFFICE, IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN. THAT IS CORRECT. BUT IF THEY MAINTAIN THE OFFICE SPACE, THEN THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO USE IT AS OFFICE SPACE. AND I MEAN, FIRST, HEY, THAT, THAT WAY, RIGHT, THAT'S TRUE. AS LONG AS THEY'RE MAINTAINING IT AS AN OFFICE USE, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO KEEP IT THAT WAY, BUT IT'S STILL MR. STANFORD BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT AND HE'S CORRECT THAT IT IS STILL, UM, UM, DETRIMENTAL IN SOME WAYS TO A PROPERTY OWNER BECAUSE, UM, UM, AT THAT POINT, IF THEY, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE NEXT DOOR, UM, APARTMENT COMPLEX, UM, AND OFFICE OMAN, SEE WHERE IT CATCH FIRE, IF THE DAMAGE THEIR BUILDING, AND THEY CAUSED 60% OF DAMAGE ON THEIR BUILDING, THEN THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO REBUILD THAT BUILDING FOR AN OFFICE SHEETS. UM, THEY ALSO WOULD HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH GETTING MONEY FOR LENDING, IF THEY WERE EVER WANTING TO IMPROVE THE OFFICE, PUT, IMPROVE THE FACADE. IF THEY WANTED TO GET A LOAN FOR THAT, IF IT'S A, NON-CONFORMING USE A LENDERS CAN BE VERY HESITANT TO GIVE THEM A GOOD RATE, AT LEAST FOR THAT KNOCK AND GO WITH YOU. SO IT ALSO COULD POTENTIALLY CAUSE THE INSURANCE RATES TO GO UP PRETTY MUCH, YOU THROW SOMETHING INTO A NON-CONFORMING USE. I SEE. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COMMISSIONER JENKINS. THANK YOU, TREVOR. ON TWO QUESTIONS. FIRST QUESTION IS FOR MR. GAREN, HOW, HOW DOES THIS CHANGE AFFECT THE PARKING ISSUE? TWO, DO WE SOLVE THE PARKING ISSUE BY FAKING THESE CHANGES? I DON'T THINK YOU REALLY SOLVE AN ISSUE ENTIRELY. THE DOWNTOWN PARKING ISSUES ARE VERY MUCH, UM, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE CITY'S MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY. I MEAN, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, UM, UH, THE, UH, BAR THAT MADE IT IN THE COMMITTEE, I MAY BE MIXING UP COMMITTEES FOR THIS, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOWNTOWN PARKING, BUT, UM, UH, BUT THE USE IS IN THE CORE DOWNTOWN AREA DEPEND VERY, VERY HEAVILY ON, ON, UH, ON STREET PARKING, PUBLIC STREET PARKING THERE'S, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF SURFACE PARKING IN THE CORE DOWNTOWN, AND THAT'S VERY, THAT'S SORT OF TYPICAL OF A DOWNTOWN. SO, UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WITH THAT, I THINK THE THOUGHT PROCESS FOR THE ASSEMBLY USES AGAIN, AS MR. ALLEN MENTIONED EARLIER IS, UM, KIND OF LUMPING THOSE AND THAT THOSE ONE COMMON THING THEY HAD WAS, WAS, UM, GATHERINGS, YOU KNOW, GROUP GATHERINGS OR ONE TIME, UM, THOSE KIND OF HAVE THEIR OWN UNIQUE PARKING DEMANDS. SO, UH, I, I THINK YOU MENTIONED AT MEETING THAT, THAT THERE, THERE ARE OPTIONS THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT MEETING THE BUSINESSES COULD HAVE DOTS, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO STRANGLE BUSINESSES. IT'S NOT THE IDEA HERE, BUT, BUT YOU MENTIONED, UH, THINGS LIKE OFFSITE PARKING ARRANGEMENTS OR, OR A FEE IN LIEU OF PARKING THOSE PARKING SPACES, OR ARE THOSE, HOW COULD THOSE BE INCORPORATED TO LESSEN THE IMPACT OF HAVING SOME OF THE POTENTIAL ASSEMBLY SPACES? WELL, UM, I GUESS ONE THING I WILL SAY IN IT AND THE COMMITTEE ACTUALLY MOVED IT, UM, FORWARD EARLIER THIS, THIS EVENING, BUT, UM, I, I MENTIONED WE HAD A DOWNTOWN PARKING DISCUSSION AND SO THAT, THAT MAY BE COMING OR BE CUTTING ON, UH, ON ONE OF YOUR FUTURE AGENDAS TO LOOK AT THAT ABOUT, UM, UH, EASING, UH, REALLY ELIMINATING THE, UM, UH, OFF STREET OR IN OTHER WORDS, ONSITE PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND THE CORE DOWNTOWN AREA BECAUSE OF THIS FERRY, UM, ISSUE SOME, SOME NEW BUSINESSES HAVE RUN INTO THAT ISSUE. [02:45:01] UM, THE CODE KIND OF TRIES TO, UM, YOU KNOW, COUNT ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGES DEPENDING ON WHAT'S BEEN THERE AND WHAT THE NEW, THE CURRENT VERSUS NEW LAND USE OR EXCUSE ME, PARKING RATIOS ARE. BUT ANYWAY, THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE A FUTURE ITEM ON YOUR AGENDA. LET'S TALK ABOUT DOWNTOWN FLINT. OKAY. UH, WILL BE EVER PREVENT, UH, UH, FEDERAL QUESTION. LAST QUESTION, UM, ALTERNATIVE TO THE OCCUPANCY AS AGGREGATE AND OCCUPANCY APPROACH COULD BE TAKEN REGARDING LAND USE CREDITS. CAN WE JUST DO SUP'S AND CALL IT A DAY? I WILL ADDRESS THAT MR. CHAIRMAN, THE, THE CONCERN THAT WE WILL CONCERN WITH GPS WHEN IT COMES TO ANY PROTECTED USE AND ALTHOUGH ASSEMBLIES WOULD ALL BE TREATED THE SAME. UM, THE CONCERN I HAVE WITH SGPS IS THAT AT THAT POINT IT BECOMES, UM, UM, YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF HAVING POLITICS TO COME INTO PLAY ABOUT PARTICULAR NEWS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE PROTECTED. AND SPECIFICALLY, ALTHOUGH MOST OF THE USES UNDER THE ASSEMBLY USE ARE NOT PROTECTED. YOU KNOW, RELIGIOUS USE PROTECTED, THEY HAVE CERTAIN PROTECTIONS AND THAT MAIN PROTECTION BEING THAT IT'S NOT TREATED DIFFERENTLY THAN ANY OTHER USE. AND SO MY FEAR ON THAT IS HAVING A FUTURE COUNCIL IN THE FUTURE PLAN COMMISSION, UM, UH, TREAT EVERY RELIGIOUS USE DIFFERENTLY THAN IT MIGHT BY DENYING AN SEP THAT MIGHT NOT TREAT ANOTHER ASSEMBLY USE LIKE SOME KIND OF SOCIAL SERVICE OR SOME, UM, UM, JUST REGULAR THEATER. UM, THEY MAY ALLOW A THEATER COMING IN WITHIN THE NEXT MONTH. I CHARGE WANTS TO COME IN BY SGP, AND THEN THEY DENY THAT THAT, THAT WOULD EXPOSE THE CITY TO LITIGATION AT THAT POINT. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO YOU'RE TRYING TO CREATE A BLANKET ABROAD CATEGORY VERSUS INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATIONS. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE POLICY DECISIONS, THE PUBLIC POLICY DECISIONS THAT OUR COUNCIL MAKES ARE CONSISTENT ACROSS THE BOARD FOR THOSE TYPES OF USES. AND THAT ONE PARTICULAR USE ISN'T DISCRIMINATED AGAINST JUST BECAUSE FOR WHATEVER REASON, UM, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE ALL TREATED OKAY. UH WE'LL TO THE DOWNTOWN PARKING. I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER, I'VE SERVED ON A NUMBER OF COMMITTEES DOWNTOWN. YOU MAY WANT TO GO TO THE OLD BOOKSHELVES AND PULL SOME OF THOSE OLD REPORTS AT, CAUSE I THINK IN ONE OR TWO OF THEM, WE DID ADDRESS DOWNTOWN PARKING. THERE MAY BE SOME IDEAS THEY'RE WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION. I'M NOT CERTAIN BECAUSE THERE SHOULD BE A SHELF ABOUT THAT LONG WITH REPORTS FOR DOWNTOWN GARLAND. ALRIGHTY. DO I SEE ANY OTHER HANDS GOING UP? OKAY. COMMISSIONER JENKINS, PICK A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC, HEARING A MOTION TO CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING BY COMMISSIONER JENKINS AND A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER PARIS. CAN YOU SLOW THE CLOSEST PUBLIC HEARING? AND THAT APPEARS TO BE UNANIMOUS. ALRIGHTY, WE'RE INTO DISCUSSION COMMISSIONER JENKINS, YOUR CHAIRMAN. UM, I, THIS, THIS PLAN ORIGINALLY, I BELIEVE THE IDEA WAS TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT THE CITY HAVE REGARDING LOOKING FORWARD. UH, BOTH IN TERMS OF THE PARKING THAT MR. KAREN HAS INDICATED AT IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL VISION OF THE CITY ATTORNEY HAD MENTIONED AS WELL. UM, SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PLAN SEEKS TO ACCOMPLISH. I DO AGREE WITH THE CHAIRMAN'S EARLIER STATEMENT THAT PERHAPS SOME OR I THINK IT WAS THE CHAIRMAN, PERHAPS IT WAS COMMISSIONER DALTON. UM, THE EARLIER STATEMENT THAT WE REALLY SHOULD INCLUDE A LOT OF BUSINESSES IN THE CONVERSATION PRIOR TO MAKING ANY SORT OF FINAL DECISIONS. UM, IF, IF WE NEEDED TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT MOVING THIS FORWARD, UM, THE, THE, I MEAN, I, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE REACHED THE CONCLUSION THERE. CULTURAL FACILITIES ARE NOT ASSEMBLY. ASSEMBLY HALLS ARE SIMPLY PLACES WHEN THOSE PLACES CAN BE USED THOSE PLACES. AS I SAID, THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED. UM, I CAN'T, UH, IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, JUST SAY, HEY, AS IT IS, THIS IS OKAY, WE'D HAVE TO GO PIECEMEAL IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL THINGS THAT WE'D BE WILLING TO CONSIDER. AND I JUST DON'T KNOW IF WE WE'VE GOT THAT, THAT SPACE. SO, ALRIGHTY, COMMISSIONER ROSE. I STILL, UH, WOULD STRONGLY ENCOURAGE US TO POSTPONE ANY KIND OF DECISION UNTIL OUR FIRST IN SEPTEMBER WITH THE CON WITH THE CONDITION THAT WE TALK ABOUT THIS AGAIN, IN OUR SECOND MEETING [02:50:01] IN AUGUST THAT HAVE IT, THE FIRST ITEM OF THAT MEETING, SO THAT THE SIX OR EIGHT PEOPLE THAT WANTED TO SPEAK TONIGHT HAD TO GO AWAY FOR SOME PARTICULAR REASON. UH, WE NEED, AND, AND, AND THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION WAS NOT CONSULTED WITH PRIOR TO MAKING THIS, THIS RECOMMENDATION. I JUST THINK IT'S GOING ONE WAY. AND THEN I JUST THINK WE'RE AT A POSTPONEMENT UNTIL OUR, OUR FIRST MEETING IN SEPTEMBER WITH THE CONDITION THAT WE TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN AT OUR SECOND MEETING IN AUGUST WITH IT BEING THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA TYPICALLY WOULD BE POSTPONE ITEM. IT GOES TO THE TOP OF THE AGENDA, UH, COMMISSIONER OUT THEN COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER LUCK CAME FIRST. ALL RIGHT, WELL, I'LL GO AHEAD AND JUMP IN THERE. UM, OKAY. HERE'S UH, WITHOUT, UH, WITHOUT HAVING OFFICE SPACES, UM, BEING DESIGNATED AS ALLOWABLE, I DON'T SEE THIS AS, UH, AS SOMETHING THAT I CAN SUPPORT. I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO, UH, THAT THAT LEAVES A HUGE SWATH, ALSO FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS. WE HAVE A LARGE BANK THAT'S ON THAT. THAT'S ON THE CORNER. THOSE TWO, I REALLY FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT BOTH OF THOSE, BUT I DO ALSO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE COMMISSION ROSE SAYING THAT WE SHOULD TAKE A LITTLE BIT SLOWER ROLE AND OPEN UP THE DIALOGUE WITH THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION. OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVEN'T HAD THEIR SAY IN IT. AND EVEN IF WE GET TO THE SAME LOCATION, AT LEAST WE'D GOTTEN THERE TOGETHER. AND SO I REALLY THINK THAT WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO TAKE A LITTLE MORE TIME, WHATEVER THAT IS, THE NEXT MEETING OR THE FOLLOWING THAT WE, THAT IF THAT GIVES AN ALLOWABLE AMOUNT OF TIME FOR THAT GROUP TO GET TOGETHER AND I'M ALL OVER WHAT'S, UH, WHAT'S BEING DISCUSSED. AND I, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A GOOD COURSE OF ACTION FOR US IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. OKAY. COMMIT YOUR LUCK. I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER OD, UM, AND COMMISSIONER ROSE. I THINK THAT THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION SHOULD HAVE DEFINITELY BEEN, UH, TALKED TO BEFORE ALL OF THIS OCCURRED. UM, I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SECOND FLOOR OFFICE USAGE ISN'T ALLOWED AT ALL. I MEAN, THAT SEEMS TO ME LIKE, IT'S, YOU HAVE RETAIL ON THE BOTTOM RETAIL OR ENTERTAINMENT, WHATEVER. AND THEN ON THE TOP YOU CAN KIND OF DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. IT JUST MAKES MORE SENSE TO ME THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THEIR, THEIR BUILDINGS AS THEY SEE FIT. UM, I, I ALSO, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT THE CITY IS TRYING TO MAKE CHURCHES LEAVE THE DOWNTOWN AREA, AND I REALLY WOULD LIKE FOR THEM TO FEEL MORE SECURE AND THAT THEY ARE WANTED THERE, OR THAT THEY'RE NOT BEING PRECLUDED FROM ANY OF THIS. UM, SO I, I REALLY FEEL THAT THIS SHOULD BE POSTPONED ALSO. UM, AND, AND THAT THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO TALK TONIGHT, FOR WHATEVER REASON, COULDN'T ARE ALLOWED TO SPEAK AGAIN. OKAY. ANY OTHER INPUT I'M HEARING A LITTLE BIT OF A CONSENSUS THAT OFFICES WE SHOULDN'T BE CREATING ANY LEGAL NONCONFORMING USES, NO MATTER WHAT I'M HEARING THAT AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BY USING THE CREDITS, WE'RE NOT CREATING A LEGAL NONCONFORMING USE. IT IS TOTALLY ILLEGAL CONFORM AND USE FOR ANY ASSEMBLY IN THE, IN THAT AREA. AND A GOAL APPEARS TO BE NOT TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF ASSEMBLY TO AGGRAVATE AN ALREADY BAD PARKING SITUATION. UH, AND, UH, ALSO HERE A CONSENSUS OF MAYBE POSTPONING IT, IF WE DID THAT, I WOULD SUGGEST A TWO WEEK POSTPONEMENT FORCED TO HEAR IT AGAIN, BUT ALSO MAKE IT AN ACTION ITEM. AND IF WE FEEL IT'S STILL NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME, WE CAN POSTPONE IT AGAIN. BUT IF, IF A WILL AND STAFF CAN ARRANGE WITHIN THE NEXT, BEFORE THE 30TH TO, UH, MEET WITH THE DOWNTOWN ASSOCIATION AND, UH, UH, DO IT THAT WAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, MR. FRANKLIN, CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION? UM, AS WE APPROACH THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, [02:55:02] UM, WITHOUT THE Y'ALL TAKING A FORMAL VOTE, YAY, OR NAY A FLOP AND COME UP WITH A CONSENSUS THAT THE CITY COULD TAKE TO THEM AND SAY, THE PLAN COMMISSION HEARD THE COMMITTEE, THE CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE, UM, RECOMMENDATION, AND THAT, AND BY CONSENSUS, NOT MY FINAL VOTE OR, OR RECOMMENDATION, BUT BY CONSENSUS, THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGREED THAT THESE USERS SENIOR SHOULD BE SUP THEY SHOULD BE INCLUDED AS ALLOWED USES. AND SO THERE WERE FOUR OR FIVE USES THAT WERE PRETTY CLEAR THAT EVERYBODY WITH HAS BEEN IN AGREEMENT HAVING ISSUES WITH. SO IF WE CAN COME UP WITH A CONSENSUS FOR ME, ALL THAT WE COULD TAKE TO THEM, IT WOULD GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF SOMETHING TO HELP FRAME THE CONVERSATION WITH THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION. JUST A SUGGESTION. NO, THAT IT SOUNDS REASONABLE OF ALREADY COMING HALFWAY, IF NOT BETTER TO WHAT THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, YOU KNOW, IT WOULDN'T BE A MOTION FROM US, BUT, UH, WHICH STAFF MEETS WITH THEM. AND IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE OF IF I SHOWED UP TO AND TELL THEM THIS IS WHERE WE WERE HEADING, BUT, UH, I'M HERE TO HEAR WHAT YOU GUYS HAD TO SAY. SO, UH, DID YOUR HAND GO UP AGAIN? OKAY. I SEE A HAND OVER THERE IN THE CORNER COMMISSIONER ROSE. IT JUST, JUST MOVED AGAIN. WHERE'D YOU GO? YOU'RE BEHIND MY CAMERA. SO, YEAH. UH, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT, UH, WE DO A POSTPONEMENT WITH THESE CONDITIONS TO THE ENTIRE COUNCIL OR THE SUB COMMITTEE. YOU GOING BACK TO THE SUB-COMMITTEE IT'S OUT OF THE CUP, IT'S OUT OF THE COMMITTEE. YOU SEE, IT'S, WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS, IS THAT Y'ALL NOT DO ANY KIND OF FINAL RECOMMENDATION AT ALL TONIGHT, BUT Y'ALL COME UP WITH A CONSENSUS THAT THE CITY STAFF CAN TAKE TO THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION AND SAY, I PUT A PRELIMINARY HEARING WAS HEARD MY PLANNING COMMISSION BY CONSENSUS, BUT NOT MY RECOMMENDATION. THEY BELIEVE THAT THESE TYPES OF USES SHOULD BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT TO BE, SHOULD BE DYE SUP. AND, UM, UM, BECAUSE THERE WERE FOUR OR FIVE, THERE ARE REALLY FOUR OR FIVE USES THAT WERE REALLY PROBLEMATIC TONIGHT. AND THAT BEING OFFICE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION, UM, UH, THERE WAS A COUPLE OF OTHERS AND I CAN'T REMEMBER OFF THE MEDIA CENTER, YOU'D BE DOING THE SAME THING THE COUNCIL DOES, UH, DURING WORK SESSION, NICK GO AROUND AND SEE CONSENSUS THAT WE WERE IN FAVOR OF IT, AND LET'S BRING IT FORWARD TO CONSOLE FOR OFFICIAL. AND, UM, MR. CHAIR, UM, IF THAT'S, IF THAT OVERALL, THAT SCHEME OVERALL WORKS FOR THE COMMISSION, THEN WHAT YOU CAN DO IS JUST TAKE EACH ONE OF THOSE AND JUST GIVE A THUMBS UP, THUMBS DOWN FOR EACH ONE. AND THAT WAY WE'LL CAN TAKE SOMETHING WITH HIM AS HE TALKS WITH THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION AND PRESENT THAT AS THIS IS INITIALLY, THIS IS WHERE THE PLAN COMMISSION SITS THERE. AND THAT WAY THEY SEE US COMING WITH THEM, AT LEAST MOVING IN THAT WAY A LITTLE BIT ON THAT TOO, SINCE IT ISN'T ACTION ITEM, I WOULD STILL NEED TO GET A MOTION TO POSTPONE FOR, TO A SET DATE, WHICH IS, WHICH MUST SPEAK. IT WOULD BE AUGUST 30TH. MAYBE WE CAN GET IT WRAPPED UP BY THEN MAYBE WE CAN'T, BUT IT GIVES US THE NEXT SHOT AT IT. COMMISSIONER ROSE. I SAW MOVE. OKAY. UH, BEFORE WE DO THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO GET THE CONSENSUS ITEMS, UH, OKAY. UH, UH, KIND OF UNDERNEATH OUR BELT HERE, SO TO SPEAK, UH, LET, LET ME HEAR FROM ANYBODY ON, ON ANY SPECIFIC ISSUES, ANY SPECIFIC, UH, USERS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UH, COMMISSIONER PARRIS UP THERE TO CORNER BEHIND THE ARM TO MY CAMERA? NO PROBLEM. I WAS, I WAS TRYING TO GET IN BEFORE MOTION WAS ABOUT, SO GO INTO PLAY. I THINK ONE OTHER COMPONENT TO ADD IS CONSISTENCY OF WHAT WE'RE COMMUNICATING AS ASSEMBLY. I THINK WHAT WAS POINTED OUT MAYBE BY COMMISSIONER JENKINS EARLIER, OR, UH, IT MAY HAVE BEEN SOMEONE ELSE, BUT PERFORMING ARTS VERSUS ASSEMBLY. RIGHT. UM, SO, BUT IT'S ON THE LIST AS, UM, AS A PROPOSED ALLOWED YOUTH. SO I THINK IF WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THINGS FOR CONSIDERATION ALSO INCLUDE CLARITY OF WHAT WE'RE IDENTIFYING AS ASSEMBLY AND, UM, AND IT SHOULD BE CONSISTENT ACROSS AND, OR THE REASONS WHY OR WHY NOT. SO THAT'S WHAT I'M HAVING, UH, THE ISSUE WITH IS THE CONSISTENCY OF WHAT WE'RE IDENTIFYING AS ASSEMBLY. AND THEN WHAT WE'RE SAYING YES OR NO TO IN TERMS OF PROPOSED. SO, UM, I WOULD LIKE THAT, I THINK WE CAN DO THAT NEST. THEY HAVE TO MAKE THAT VERY, UH, TO COME BACK WITH KIND OF A CLARITY REPORT ON THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF ASSEMBLIES IS THE BREAK OFF BETWEEN PERFORMANCE ASSEMBLY. AND PAUL SAID, [03:00:01] PAUL ASSEMBLY HAS THE CONNOTATION OF A CERTAIN NUMBER OR A CERTAIN SIZE, AND WHAT'S THE CRITERIA. OKAY. YEAH. MR. CHAIRMAN, JUST REAL SHORTLY, WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT WAS THE, UM, STUDIO COMMA FITNESS OR PERFORMING ARTS, UM, THAT'S KIND OF FIGURE LIKE DANCE STUDIO, BALLET STUDIO, UM, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, UM, ZOOMBA. SO IT, THE GDC KIND OF CLASSIFIED THAT AS A BELOW 5,000 SQUARE FEET, I CAN CERTAINLY DOUBLE CHECK THAT AS WE LOOK INTO THAT FURTHER, BUT JUST KIND OF AN INITIAL OBSERVATION THERE THAT I THINK THAT WAS INTENDED FOR SMALLER SCALE STUDIOS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, UM, THAT YOU DO SOMETIMES FIND DOWNTOWN A YOGA STUDIO. UM, BUT WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK AND REVIEW ALL THAT, BUT IS THERE, IS THERE A CONSENSUS ON COMMISSION COMMISSIONER CURSES REQUEST FOR THAT CLARIFICATION? OKAY. BOY, WE'RE LIKE A COUNCIL WORK SESSION. NOW. HERE WE GO. COMMISSIONER LUCK'S HAND GO UP AND THEN COMMISSIONER DALTON OR COMMISSIONER ROSA. YEAH, GO AHEAD. HOW MUCH FREE SPACE IS THERE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA? IS THIS, IS THIS AIMED AT CLEARING UP SPACE? SO THAT ENTERTAINMENT TYPE VENUES CAN GO IN. UM, I'M, I'M JUST CURIOUS, UH, WHY THE WEATHER RESTRICTIONS ARE SO STRICT, UM, IS, HAS BEEN A, NOT A LOT OF IT'S THE, I, I UNDERSTAND THERE'S PROBABLY LIMITED SPACE. IT'S A SMALL AREA, BUT HOW MUCH FREE SPACE IS THERE EXISTING NOW? THERE'S NO FREE SPACE. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. YEAH, GO AHEAD. I THINK THERE ARE SOME EMPTY SPACE THAT I WOULD WALK THE DOWNTOWN, UH, JUST AROUND THE SQUARE AND THERE WERE SOME EMPTY STOREFRONTS, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY, I DON'T THINK THE GOAL OF THIS IS TO CHANNEL ONE KIND OF USE INTO IT AND RIP ANOTHER ONE OUT. IT'S JUST, LET'S KIND OF GET THINGS UNDER CONTROL KIND OF STUFF. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEAH, SURE. UH, COMMISSIONER ROSE. I WOULD, UH, I WOULD ASK THAT WE INCLUDE OFFICE USE AS A THUMBS UP OR THUMBS DOWN. THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION. YOU BEAT ME TO, UH, OKAY. OFFICE USE, UH, D WOULD YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND DEBT, UH, BANK USE IN ON THAT ONE TOO? SURE. OFFICE AND BANK TOGETHER? NOT DO I SEE A CONSENSUS OF, UH, HAVING AN OFFICE IN THE BANK BY, RIGHT. I SEE. OKAY. I SEE A CONSENSUS. YEAH. AND I HAD INCLUDED BUSINESS MEDIA SERVICE. UH, WELL, IF YOU COULD MAYBE ELABORATE ON A BUSINESS MEDIA SERVICE TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT MISCONSTRUING IT. SURE. LET ME PULL UP THAT DEFINITION, BUSINESS AND MEDIA SERVICE. UH, IT, IT DOES SAY BUSINESS AND MEDIA SERVICE, I THINK WAS THE CHRIS THE DEFINITION I'LL, I'LL JUST KIND OF READ THE DEFINITION STRAIGHT FROM THE CODE. UM, IT'S CLASSIFIED AS, UH, AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT PROVIDES BUSINESS RELATED SERVICES, NOT OTHERWISE LISTED HERE. AND AS A SPECIFIC USE, THE TERM INCLUDES SERVICES SUCH AS RETAIL OR SMALL SCALE PRINT AND COPY SHOPS, PRIVATE MAIL AND SHIPPING SERVICES, OFFICE EQUIPMENT, SALES, REPAIR SERVICE SHOPS, UH, WITH A MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE OF 5,000 SQUARE FEET. UH, IF IT'S OVER 5,000 SQUARE, THAT GETS INTO A DIFFERENT USE, WHICH IS A PRINTING POLISHING. OKAY. I'LL LEAVE THAT OPENEDGE TO ANYBODY WANT TO INCLUDE OR INCLUDE THE SUP OR WHATEVER OR NOT. OKAY, WE'LL LEAVE THAT ONE OFF FOR NOW. ARE THERE ANY OTHER USES WE WANTED TO, UH, BE ABLE TO LET THE DOWNTOWN MERCHANTS AND LAND OWNERS, DOWNTOWN MERCHANTS AND LAND OWNERS KNOW THAT WE WERE DEFINITELY PUSHING FOR A COMMISSIONER ROSE. DID WE ALREADY TALK ABOUT ASSEMBLY HALLS SLASH CHURCHES? THAT'S JUST PART OF THE CATCH ALL OF ASSEMBLY HALLS AND THAT'S ONE, ONE BIG CATEGORY OF WHAT ASSEMBLY HALLS WILL INCLUDE A CHURCH ALONG WITH THAT DOES INCLUDE THE CHURCH. [03:05:02] WELL, I THINK WE ARE WHAT THE, UH, THE STAFF WORKED WITH THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION TO SEE IF THAT'S A VIABLE USE FOR THE SQUARE LITTLE CONSENSUS ON WHICH WAY Y'ALL WANT TO GO WITH THE SAME WAY HALLS AND JUST LEAVE IT AS IT CAME OUT OF COMMITTEE MAY MAKE IT A DISCUSSION ITEM WITH THEM. ALRIGHTY. UH, COMMISSIONER JENKINS. I THINK COMMISSIONER PARIS SAID IT. WELL, THERE HAS TO BE CONSISTENCY AND CLARITY REGARDING THAT AS A NATION, UM, SCHOOLS CAN BE CONSIDERED TO BE ASSEMBLY HALLS OR THE USE OF THE SCHOOL. THERE'S A, THERE'S A LOT THERE THAT NEEDS TO BE UNPACKED. SO MY QUESTION IS ACTUALLY, HOW DO WE COME UP WITH, I THINK WE HAVE MR. HOBSON COME ON AND SAY THAT THEIR GROUP HAD, OR THEIR INTERNAL GROUP HAD COME AND MADE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS. AND HOW DO WE COME TO THIS ASSESSMENT THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US TO SEE ME? YEAH. AND, UH, THAT KIND OF BRINGS INTO A QUESTION, SOME THINGS I HAD, YOU GOT A RESTAURANT AND MAY WANT TO RUN OUT THEIR WHOLE RESTAURANT, HAS THAT BECOME THE TEMPORARY ASSEMBLY ALL OR, UH, AND SOME OF THIS NEEDS SOME CLARIFICATION, UH, ASSEMBLING ALL, CAN IT BE A SECONDARY USE AND YEAH. CAN SOMEBODY RENT AN EXISTING SPACE FOR A SINGLE ASSEMBLING, LIKE A RESTAURANT OR MEETING ROOM? AND I THINK THOSE ARE SOME OF THE CLARIFICATION AND MAYBE IF IT CAN BE PUT DOWN IN BULLET POINTS, UH, SO PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND COMMISSIONER JENKINS BACK ON THAT. UM, THE, THE PURPOSE OF THIS REZONING AS I, IT FROM THE DFC COMMITTEE WAS THE PARKING, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE TO MAKE IT A HISTORIC DISTRICT THERE, THERE MIGHT, IF THERE IS A GRANDER VISION THAN THE VISION NEEDS TO BE EXPRESSED, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A DISCONNECT THAT WE GOT, YOU KNOW, I THINK COMMISSIONER ROSE SAID AT THE, THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE OR THE HORSE BEFORE THE CART, WHATEVER MAKES SENSE THERE. UM, BUT THAT IF IT IS TO MAKE IT A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND HAVING A, UH, YOU KNOW, NEAR 100 YEAR OLD OFFICE WOULD MAKE PERFECT SENSE. UM, SO, SO THAT I CAN, THE CLARITY THAT THAT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL IF THE BUSINESS INTEREST IS THAT THEY DESIRE TO SEE THE, UH, THE ZONING BE APPROPRIATE FOR CERTAIN SPECIFIC USES. I KNOW FOR EXAMPLE, WE'D HAD THE MEDICAL PLAN RECENTLY IS THAT IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE. WE NEED A MEDICAL DISTRICT IN THE CITY. UM, BUT, BUT THAT THERE'S A DISCONNECT. IT JUST HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED. SO ANY CLARITY THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE REGARDING WHAT THEIR VISION IS FOR DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE HELPFUL IN OUR DETERMINATION OF ACCEPTABLE USES OF LAND, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. I'LL JUST SAY THIS, THAT TRANSMIT THAT, AND WE'LL COME CORRECT ME, THE HISTORIC, THE HISTORIC ASPECT OF IT. IT'S NOT, IT HAS NOT BEEN A CONSIDERATION UNTIL TONIGHT. THAT'S THE FIRST, THIS HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP TO MY KNOWLEDGE IN ANY OF THE MEETINGS OR CONVERSATIONS THAT I HAVE. SO THAT'S NEVER BEEN PART OF THE CONVERSATION. UM, BUT FOR MANY REASONS I CAN THINK OF LEGALLY. UM, BUT IN REGARD TO THE SECONDARY USERS AND ASSEMBLY HALLS, YES, YOU COULD HAVE STILL HAVE AN ASSEMBLY THAT ASSEMBLY AS A SECONDARY USE THAT DOESN'T CONVERT THE PRIMARY USE INTO AN ASSEMBLY HALL. SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THE MIDDLE HOUSE THAT HAS A STAGE, IT IS STILL PRIMARILY, UM, THE CEO IS FOR A RESTAURANT. UM, UH, AND JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE, UM, UH, SECONDARY USE OF PERFORMANCE IN THE BACK THAT DOESN'T CONVERT IT TO AN A SAME, LIKE ALL THE SAME GOES FOR, YOU KNOW, THE TAVERN ON THE CORNER. THEY OCCASIONALLY HAVE BANDS THAT COME IN AND PLAY THERE. THE SAME WITH INTRINSIC INTRINSIC HAS A SPACE IN THE BEER GARDEN. UM, BUT WHERE BANDS PLAY THAT DOES NOT CONVERT IT TO AN AT ST. LOUIS HALL, CAUSE THAT'S A SECONDARY USE. AND WE HAVE THAT IN OTHER CONTEXTS THROUGHOUT OUR GDC AND OUR LAND USE MATRIX WHERE, UM, UM, JUST BECAUSE THE SECONDARY USE OCCURRED THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT, UH, MAKE THE ENTIRE USE INTO THAT. IT DOESN'T TRANSFER THAT TO POWER USE INTO THAT PARTICULAR USE. I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH YOU IF THE CITY IS MAKING A SECULAR DICTATOR DESIGNATION OF PARTICULAR SPECIES, IF THE WHOLE IDEA LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, IS THAT WE NEEDED TO DO THIS BECAUSE THE PARKING WAS HORRID, BUT WE WANTED TO MAKE A FAMILY FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT THAT WAS PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY. I MEAN, THE SECULAR REASONING MADE SENSE THERE. UM, IT WAS THE DETERMINATION OF THE ASSEMBLY HALLS THAT WAS KIND OF PUTTING QUESTION BECAUSE THERE ARE A BUNCH OF OTHER, UH, UM, BUSINESSES, ORGANIZATIONS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA THAT HAVE A SECONDARY USE THAT IS THE PRIMARY USE FOR ALL THE ORGANIZATIONS WE JUST SAID, CAN'T DO THE THING [03:10:01] THAT THEY'RE DOING AGAIN. SO CLEARLY WOULD BE HELPFUL UNDERSTANDING WHAT THAT GOAL IS, WOULD BE HELPFUL. THAT'S ALL, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF A WAY TO CLARIFY THAT IN WORDS, AND I'M NOT SURE THE CLARITY YOU'RE SEEKING, WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO EXPRESS AND I CALL IT C BECAUSE THAT POLICY COULD VERY WELL BE THERE'S DIFFERENT NUMERATIONS ON SECONDARY USES AND SOME USES THAT MAY NOT EVEN QUALIFY AS A SECONDARY USE, JUST SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS ON OCCASION. AND SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO PUT THAT INTO WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING IN THE WORDS, WE CAN CERTAINLY GIVE IT A SHOT, BUT I'M AFRAID IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SATISFACTORY TO THE COMMISSIONER AFFIRMATIVELY AGREEING WITH YOU WITH THUMBS UP AND THAT SORT OF THING, PERMISSION TO LET THAT GO UP A HALF AN HOUR AGO OR SO I THINK, YEAH, I JUST, I FEEL LIKE THE PARKING ISSUE IS, UH, A GUISE FOR THIS ISSUE. AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE CLARITY. UM, WHAT DIRECTION ARE WE TRYING TO HEAD FOR THIS CHANGE? ARE WE GOING HISTORIC? ARE WE GOING LIKE DOWNTOWN ENTERTAINMENT? I DON'T THINK THAT PARKING IS REALLY THE BIG ISSUE. AND, UM, I KIND OF FEEL LIKE IT'S BEING SLIPPED IN JUST TO GET IT THROUGH, UM, THE SAME REASON THAT THE, THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION WASN'T, UH, TALKED TO ABOUT THESE ISSUES BEFORE WE RECEIVED THEM. UM, I, I FEEL LIKE THEY ARE, WELL, I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS. UM, I DON'T WANT BUSINESSES THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR OVER 40 YEARS TO FEEL LIKE THEY'RE BEING SHOVED OUT. HOWEVER, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO REVITALIZE THE DOWNTOWN AREA, IF THAT IS THE CASE. IT NOT, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE UNDER THE GUISE OF A PARKING SITUATION. THEY NEED TO PRESENT IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY AND OFFER ALTERNATIVES FOR THOSE BUSINESSES WHO HAVE SPENT THAT MUCH TIME DOWNTOWN. THANK YOU. YEAH. AND I THINK IT'S CONSENSUS HERE THAT WE WANT TO SAVE. THE BUSINESSES HAS BEEN DOWNTOWN AND MR. GARREN, UH, I HEARD YOU TALKING A LITTLE BIT, THEY WANT TO STUDY THE PARKING ISSUE MORE, AND MAYBE I'M DESCRIBING THINGS THAT ARE REALLY HAPPENING, BUT I KIND OF SEE THIS AS A TWO-STEP PROCESS, ONE TO STOP THE POTENTIAL OF MORE OF A PROBLEM IMMEDIATELY, AND THEN MAYBE IN FURTHER DETAIL STUDY THE DOWNTOWN PARKING, MAYBE OTHER SPECIFIC USES AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT MAYBE EVEN EXPANDED, I DON'T KNOW, BUT, UH, MAY BE A TWO-PART PROCESS, TAKE CARE OF LOOMING PROBLEMS AND THEN STUDY IT IN FURTHER DEPTH. AM I GETTING THE GIST OF WHAT'S HAPPENING? BECAUSE I DIDN'T WATCH ANY OF THOSE MEETINGS, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT A LIFE. SO SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND, CHAIRMAN THAT THE PARKING PROBLEM IS REALLY IS REALLY TWO PROBLEMS. THE PARKING PROBLEM IS A DEVELOPMENTAL PROBLEM IN THE SENSE THAT, UM, AS IT CURRENTLY, OUR PARKING STANDARDS CURRENTLY SEVERELY RESTRICT WALKING OVER INTO A NEW BUSINESS, AS IT OPENS UP. IN FACT, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE IN SOME SITUATIONS TO GET OU BUSINESS, TO ACTUALLY QUALIFY UNDER OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS. SO YOU HAD YOUR DEVELOPMENT PARKING PROBLEM, AND THEN YOU HAD THE REAL LIFE PARKING PROBLEM. AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM WHERE WHEN WE HAVE EVENTS, WHEN WE HAVE MORTGAGE ASSEMBLIES MEETING ON THE SQUARE, THERE IS A PARKING PROBLEM ON THIS CLUB ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY PLACING THEM SOMEWHERE IN A COMFORTABLE WALKING DISTANCE WHERE PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO COME TO THE SQUARE WITHOUT FEELING LIKE THEY HAVE TO PARK A HALF MILE, THREE QUARTERS OF A MILE AWAY TO ATTEND EVENTS ON THE SQUARE. AND SO THOSE ARE THE TWO PARKING PROBLEMS AND, AND, AND YOU CAN'T UNDERESTIMATE EITHER ONE OF THOSE, BUT DEVELOPMENTALLY DEVELOPMENTALLY, THE PARKING PROBLEM HAS COME UP RECENTLY IN THE RECENT PAST. AND IT WAS A REAL PROBLEM THAT SAID THAT CITY COUNCIL HAD TO FIGHT THROUGH. UM, UM, IT TOOK A GREAT, GREAT DEAL OF SOME RESOURCES IN ORDER TO FIGURE IT OUT. AND WE'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THAT PART. AND THAT'S THE SECOND PART THAT'S GOING TO BE COMING TO Y'ALL HERE IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. YEAH. UM, YOU KNOW, I TALKED ABOUT DESIGNING SECOND FLOORS OR SOME OF THE BUILDINGS. IT PROBABLY CAN'T BE DONE NOW BECAUSE OF THE PARKING RESTRICTIONS AND THE CITY NEEDS TO MAKE IT LOOK IDENTIFIABLE PROPERTIES THAT THEY NEED TO LAND BANK FOR PARKING PURPOSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THAT'S WHY I KIND OF CALL IT A TWO-STAGE THERE'S SOME ACTION WE CAN TAKE RELATIVELY QUICKLY AND OTHERS THAT'S GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE LONGER AND HOPEFULLY I'M READING IT. RIGHT. BUT NOT THE CONSOLE, NOT THAT IN THEIR MINDS, [03:15:02] UH, COMMISSIONER ROAST. ARE THERE ANY OTHER, UH, SUGGESTIONS THAT WE NEED TO SAY TO THE COMMITTEE TO SIT DOWN WITH THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS PEOPLE? WELL, I THINK WE'VE JUST TALKED ABOUT WHAT TWO, MAYBE THREE. YEAH. THAT IT, YEAH. AND I WAS GOING TO COME BACK TO YOUR MOTION. WE HAVE YOUR MOTION ON THE TABLE TO POSTPONE THIS ITEM UNTIL AUGUST 30TH TIME FIRST, DO WE HAVE A SECOND? OH, I SUPPOSE COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. YOU'RE FAST AGAIN. OKAY. A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER ROSES. THE SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS TO POSTPONE THIS ITEM TO AUGUST 30TH AND ADD IN THE, UH, THE, LET EVERYBODY KNOW ABOUT THE DIRECTIONS WE NEED TO SEE COMING. AND THAT INCLUDES A DIRECTION TO CITY STAFF TO MEET WITH THE DOWNTOWN PLANNED ORDERS AND ASSOCIATION. CAN WE NOT ALSO, UH, MAKE A PART OF THIS MOTION THAT THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST ITEM IN OUR AGENDA? THAT'S A MATTER OF A PROCESS THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST ITEM. WELL, THAT'S MISCELLANEOUS ITEM, BUT, UH, AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANTED TO TALK TO THAT ARE GONE, IF WE PUT IT BACK AGAIN TO THE CHAIRMAN, I HAVE VERY LITTLE POWER IN THIS THING, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE POWERS I DO HAVE IS TO SET THE AGENDA. WE'LL MAKE IT THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA, PLEASE. YES, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND ALL IN FAVOR. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS THE LONGEST MEETING WE'VE HAD IN A WHILE. ALL ALONG MAKES UP FOR THAT HALF YEAR OF TWO MINUTE MEETINGS. ALRIGHTY. [3B. Consider rescheduling the September 13, October 11, November 8, and December 13, 2021 Plan Commission meeting dates, to avoid conflicts with City Council Work Sessions.] ITEM THREE, B IS CONSIDER RESCHEDULING SEPTEMBER 13TH, OCTOBER 11TH AND NOVEMBER 9TH AND DECEMBER 13TH, MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION ALMOST MADE YOU A COMMISSIONER. I MADE THE ATTORNEY COMMISSIONER TRIED TO MAKE YOU THE COMMISSIONER, MR. GARRETT, GO AHEAD, CHAIRMAN. I SAW HIM COMMISSIONER ROSE HAS HIS HAND UP. YOU WANT ME TO GO FIRST OR, OH, I'M JUST GOING TO MAKE A MOTION. WE CHANGED THEIR MEETING DATES. OH, OKAY. WELL THAT'S EASY, BUT WELL, NO, I, I CAN EXPLAIN THAT PLEASE. MR. CHAIRMAN, WE, UH, JUST TO AVOID, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE FOUR MORE, UM, PLANNING COMMISSION DATES THIS CALENDAR YEAR THROUGH THE END OF 2021, WHERE, UM, THEY FALL ON THE SAME NIGHT AS THE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION THAT CAN OFTENTIMES BE PROBLEMATIC. YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T BE TELEVISED RIGHT NOW. THE COUNCIL IS STILL MEETING IN THE CHAMBERS AS WELL FOR WORK SESSIONS. SO THAT CREATED SOME LOGISTICAL ISSUES WHERE THEY NEEDED TO STAY IN THE CHAMBERS. WE WERE HAVING TO MOVE TO THE DUCKWORTH BUILDING, BUT THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE ALL THE AUDIO VISUAL EQUIPMENT THERE. SO JUST SOME LOGISTICAL ISSUES. AND SOMETIMES IT CAN BE PROBLEMATIC HAVING ENOUGH AT THE SAME TIME. AND SOMETIMES I'M ASKED TO BE TWO PLACES AT ONCE, UH, IN ADDITION TO ALL THAT, UH, SO IT CAN, UH, CREATE AN ADDITIONAL CHALLENGE. SO, UM, UH, SO JUST A SUGGESTION TO THE COMMISSION. IF WE WANT TO CONSIDER SHEEP IN THE MEETINGS ON THOSE SAME WEEKS, UM, IF WE CHANGE IT TO THE WEDNESDAY AT THE SAME WEEK, UM, THE FOLLOWING IS A CITY COUNCIL, REGULAR MEETING, BUT IF WE CHANGE IT TO THOSE WINDS, SEPTEMBER 13TH TO THE 15TH, OCTOBER 11TH, THE 13TH, THAT STILL JUST BARELY KEEPS US IN THE 30 DAY SHOT CLOCK. THAT'S ACTUALLY EXACTLY 30 DAYS FROM AT THE APPLICATION SNUGGLE DATES. SO, UM, SO THAT THAT'S A SUGGESTION TO CONSIDER. YEAH, THIS ONLY HAS TO HAPPEN, HAS TO HAPPEN A COUPLE TIMES A YEAR. AND WITH THAT HAPPENING MULTIPLE TIMES. AND I THINK A CITY COUNCIL POLICY IS THEY ACTUALLY THINK ENOUGH OF US THAT THEY THINK THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE US TOO WHEN WE'RE ON. SO I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE DRIVING FORCE ON THIS. NOW MY QUESTION TO THE COMMISSIONERS IS WEDNESDAY A BAD DAY, UH, COMMISSIONER PARIS. YES, IT IS FOR ME, I TEACH ON THOSE DAYS. SO I WOULD LIKE IT TO STAY ON A MONDAY AND THAT, AND THOSE MONDAYS ON BLOCK FOR PLANNING COMMISSION ACTIVITY. SO THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION FOR IT TO STAY ON A MONDAY. UM, WHICH, WHICH WEDNESDAY, WHERE YOU PROPOSING THE FIRST, SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH, THIS WOULD STAY ON EITHER THE SECOND OR FOURTH. UM, SO CURRENTLY WE'RE ON THE SECOND AND FOURTH, MONDAYS OF EACH MONTH. UM, WE HAVE A SECOND WEDNESDAY, THE SECOND WEDNESDAYS OF EVERY MONTH FOR FOUNDATIONS. OKAY. WELL, THE SPECIFIC DATES ARE SEPTEMBER 13TH IS A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. THE SUGGESTION THERE WAS TO MOVE THAT TO THE 15TH. OCTOBER 11TH IS THE DATE. THE SUGGESTION WAS, WE'VE GOT SOME 13 MOVE NOVEMBER 8TH [03:20:01] TO THE 10TH AND THE MOVE DECEMBER 13TH TO THE 15TH. THOSE ARE ALL MONDAYS WHERE THERE'S A CONFLICT. SO I'M JUST WANTING TO BE A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC ON THAT. AND, UH, COMMISSIONER LOT, YOU SAID YOU WOULD OR WOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE IN SOME OF THOSE OR, UH, THE SECOND WEDNESDAY OF EVERY MONTH, I HAVE A FOUNDATION MEETING FOR THE GIRL IN PARKS FOUNDATION. OKAY. SO IT'D BE THE FIFTH. OKAY. THAT WOULD BE A, THAT WOULD BE ALL OF YOUR WEDNESDAYS THE FIRST WEDNESDAY OF EACH MONTH. YEAH. SO WE WOULD BE DOWN TO COMMISSIONERS DUE TO PREVIOUS COMMITMENTS. THE QUESTION, YES. WHAT WOULD BE THE, THE, THE ISSUE OR CONCERN WITH IT BEING ON SEPTEMBER 20TH? UM, I KNOW THE 13TH, THE SIXTH IS A LABOR DAY AND THEN MY UNDERSTANDING THE 13TH, IT WOULD BE COUNCIL MEETING. SO WHAT IS THE ISSUE WITH THE MONDAY, THE 20TH THERE? AND, UH, WE'LL, UH, UH, MR. ENGLAND CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. THE STATE TWO YEARS AGO PUT APPLICATIONS ON FOR SAKE OF A BETTER TERM, A SHOCK CLOCK. IF SOMEBODY SUBMITS AN APPLICATION WITH WE AS COMMISSIONER SET TO HEAR AND APPROVE OR DENY IT WITHIN A 30 DAY PERIOD OF THAT APPLICATION AND THEY HAVE TO CALCULATE IT AHEAD OF TIME NOTIFICATION TO EVERYBODY, AND THEN IT HAS TO GO ON TO CONSOLE. AND SO THEY'RE JUGGLING THOSE DATES TOO. AM I CORRECT ON THAT? FOR INSTANCE, IF IT WERE HELD A WEEK LATER, WOULD THAT SCREW UP THE SHOT CLOCK, RIGHT? YEAH. THE PROBLEM IS HAVE MOVING AT A WEEK LATER. IT GETS YOU OUTSIDE OF THE 30 DAYS. UM, MOVING OUR SUBMITTAL CALENDAR DATES CAN BE A LITTLE TRICKY AS WELL AS THIS DEVELOPERS. A LOT OF TIMES YOU HAVE, BY THIS POINT, THEY'D COME IN FOR PRIESTS AND MIDDLES. THEY'VE GOT THEIR DATES SET WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO GET HIM, UM, YOU KNOW, ON A CERTAIN DATE. UM, UH, SO IT KIND OF COMPLICATES A LITTLE BIT WHAT WE HAVE TO ADJUST ALL THE CAKE IT'S KIND OF WORKING BACKWARDS. YOU CHANGE ONE THING, THEY'RE KIND OF CHANGING OTHER THINGS, SO, WELL, I WOULDN'T ADJUST THIS. OH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. YEAH, WE'RE GOING, AND I'M JUST TOSSING IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO THE THURSDAY AFTER IT'D BE MONDAY SHOOT TOO. NOT FOR ME. OKAY. YEAH. I THINK WE MAY NEED TO, IF WE'RE ABLE TO, WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CALENDAR. MAYBE IF WE CAN, STAFF CAN LOOK AT THAT AND CONFIRM, BUT, UM, WE MAY HAVE TO BUMP OUR SUBMITTAL DATES JUST IF IT'S JUST MOVING TO THE DAY LATER OR SOMETHING, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD PRESENT ANY ISSUES WITH DEVELOPERS, APPLICANTS, UM, JUST TO STAY WITHIN THAT 30 DAY SHOT CLOCK IN CASE WE DO GET ANY 30 DAY APPLICATIONS INSTEAD OF HASHING THIS OUT. CAUSE I CAN SEE YOU COULD TAKE FOREVER CAUSE YOU'VE GOT YOUR CALENDAR TO LOOK AT AND EVERYTHING. AND, UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAT, UH, WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE IT ON THE WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON? OKAY. THAT WOULD PUT US TWO COMMISSIONERS DOWN AND HAVE TWO OR THREE ARE SICK. WE RUN INTO A QUORUM ISSUE. COMMISSIONER ROSE. WHY ARE WE, WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT MAKING A CHANGE? BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THE ZOOM. WHY CAN'T WE HAVE IT ON THE DATE THAT'S PRESCRIBED? WE JUST ZOOM. THERE WAS NIGHTS. YEAH. WELL, AND IT WOULD BE RECORDED LIKE TONIGHT. UH, THE, SIR IT'LL BE POINTED BACK TOMORROW AND THAT IS AN OPTION OF MR. ENGLAND. THE REASON THEY CANNOT MEET ON ZOOM IS COSMIC PROVISION, MAYBE EXECUTIVE ORDER OR THE DEBORAH THAT SUSPENDED LOCAL, THE OPEN MEETINGS THAT IS NO LONGER THAT FACT AFTER SEPTEMBER ONE. AND SO WE DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY UNDER STATE LAW TO MEET BY ZOOM AFTER SEPTEMBER ONE AND WEST THE GOVERNOR, UM, PASSES ANOTHER EXECUTIVE ORDER, UM, FURTHER SUSPENDING THE OPEN MEETINGS. YEAH. WE'RE INTO LEGALITIES THERE. SO WHAT I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST IS THAT ONE, WE EITHER FIND A PLACE TO MEET ON THE SAME DAYS, WHICH IS A PAIN IN THE BUTT FOR STAFF OR WILL IN THE NEXT WEEK BEFORE OUR NEXT MEETING, IF YOU WANT TO LAY OUT OPEN DATES. OKAY. AND I'LL ASK MR. FRANKLIN ON THIS, WOULD HE BE ALLOWED TO SUBMIT OPEN DATES TO US AND HAVE US KIND OF VOTE ON THEM AND EMAIL? AND IF SOMETHING WORKS AND THEN SET THE DATE, OR IS THAT A VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETING? IT'S A, UM, ADMINISTRATIVE YOU AREN'T TAKING FORMAL ACTION. AND SO HE'S JUST TRYING TO GET YOUR SCHEDULE. SO THAT'D BE OKAY. I PUT SOME DATES JUST TO GET A SCHEDULE FOR Y'ALL THAT'S WORKS BEST FOR THE COMMISSION BECAUSE IT IS, IT IS IMPORTANT AND IT'S DIFFICULT AT THE SAME TIME FOR ALL THE COMMISSIONERS TO CONTRIBUTE HERE AND [03:25:01] THAT NONE ARE LEFT OUT. AND SO IT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. ALL RIGHT. SO, AND WHAT I WAS THINKING, OKAY, IF THE THURSDAYS WORK, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WE CAN PROBABLY FIND A WAY TO MEET ON MONDAYS. IT'S NOT IDEAL, BUT IF THERE'S SOME ALTERNATE DATES WHERE WE CAN MEET THAT WORKS WITH EVERYBODY AND WORKS WITH THE SHOT CLOCK, IF THEY'RE AVAILABLE FINE, IF IT DOESN'T WORK, WE GO BACK AND, UH, WE'D BEATEN THE DUCKWORTH BUILDING AND PUT IT ON VIDEO AND POSTED LATER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW? SO, UM, MY RECOMMENDATION NOW IS LET'S SEE IF THERE'S ALTERNATIVES, IF NOT NOW, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THE COMMISSION HAS TO AGREE ON AS A WHOLE? BECAUSE WE'RE ALL OKAY WITH MONDAY, NO MATTER WHAT, WHERE WE ADD TO THE MEAT, IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT AND I MAKE AN EXECUTIVE DECISION TO, UH, OKAY, WE'LL GO BACK AND LET THEM BASE. IS, IS THAT AN ADMINISTRATIVE THING THAT WE CAN DO THAT WAY? OKAY. SHAKING OF HEADS. IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU ALL? IF WE FIND, TRY TO FIND SOMETHING THAT WORKS OUT, YOU KNOW, LET'S JUST GO WITH THE THUMBS UP, THUMBS DOWN. WE'LL LET YOU KNOW ABOUT SIX MINUTES BEFORE THE MEETING WHERE WE'RE MEETING. IT WAS KIND OF LIKE THIS WEEK WHEN WE WERE GOING TO MEET IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS, AND THEN THE WORK SESSION AND DUCT BUILDING INTO HERE WE ARE. SO IT'S A LOT IT'S LIFE AS WE KNOW IT TODAY. OKAY. I THINK WE'VE GOT A DIRECTION ON THAT. DIDN'T TURN OUT TO BE QUITE AS SHORT AS YOU THOUGHT COMMISSIONER ROSE. EVERYBODY NEEDED THAT POTTY BREAKS. ALRIGHTY. THAT WAS LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA. NO, TILL YES. SO UNTIL OUR MEETING ON AUGUST 30TH, WHICH AS OF NOW WILL BE A ZOOM MEETING. WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.