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ALL RIGHT.

[00:00:01]

SO IT'S FOUR 19 AND WELCOME TO THE OCTOBER 18TH, 2021 MEETING OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE, UH, MYSELF, DYLAN HEDRICK.

AND ALONG WITH ME, IT'S COUNCILMAN BASS AND COUNCIL EDDIE MORRIS.

BUT THE FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER 20TH MEETING THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MOTION TO APPROVE.

RIGHT.

AND SECOND.

ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE MOTION TO SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

MINUTES ARE APPROVED.

ALL RIGHT.

NOW IT SAYS ITEM THREE, BUT WE'LL MAKE IT ITEM TWO HERE FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION.

THIS IS EXPANDING DRIVEWAYS ON PRE 1980 PROPERTIES AND WE HAVE MR. OAK COMING UP.

YEAH.

JEREMY COMMITTEE.

I THOUGHT I GOT TO RELAX.

I THOUGHT I COULD GO A SECOND.

OKAY.

ALRIGHTY.

SO I DID, WE DID TALK IF, UM, AS YOU RECALL, WE DID TALK INITIALLY I GOT THIS RIGHT THING.

UH, WE DID TALK INITIALLY ABOUT KIND OF WHAT AGE GROUP WE REALLY WANTED TO TARGET WITH THIS.

AND SO, UM, A REAL NICE, THAT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE.

I KNOW, UH, BUT WE'LL, UH, IN PLANNING HAD HIS STAFF DEVELOP THIS AND YOU'VE GOT THIS LIGHTER COLOR, THIS GOLDER COLOR, WHICH IS HOUSES THAT WERE BUILT PRIOR TO 1970, AND THEN THAT THE DARKER ORANGE COLOR IS THOSE BUILT PRIOR TO 1980.

SO I WENT AND DID SOME SPOT CHECKING ON ALL OF THOSE AND IT'S HARD TO SEE THAT WAY.

AND WHAT I FOUND WAS IN 1940, THE HOUSES THAT WERE BUILT 1940, VERY FEW HAVE PAVED ALLEYS.

UM, YOU KNOW, IN THE FORTIES, IN THE FIFTIES, IT'S ABOUT A 75, 25 SPLIT.

SO THERE'S ABOUT 75% OF THOSE HOMES THAT WERE BUILT IN THE FIFTIES.

DON'T HAVE PAVED ALLEYS ARE FRONT ENTRY, UH, 25%.

YOU FIND THAT THEY DO HAVE SOME, SO THERE ARE SOME OUT THERE IN THE 1960S, IT'S ABOUT A 50 50 SPLIT WITH ABOUT 50% HAVING ALLEY ACCESS.

AND ABOUT 50%, NOT IN THE SEVENTIES, IT JUMPED TO ABOUT 20% WITH NO PAVED ALLEYS AND 80% WITH PAVED ALLEY ACCESS.

AND MOST OF THOSE IN THE EIGHTIES, NINETIES, TWO THOUSANDS HAVE THE PAVED ALLEY ACCESS.

SO AS WE LOOKED AT THIS, WE THOUGHT WE NEED SOME COUNCIL DIRECTION ON WHERE THIS WOULD BE.

UM, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE DRAFT ORDINANCE, I HIT IT.

IT ANYTHING BUILT BEFORE 1970, BECAUSE IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE A 50, 50 SPLIT WOULD BE ABOUT RIGHT.

UH, BUT THAT'S CERTAINLY UP TO COUNCIL SUGGESTION AND WE CAN CHANGE THAT, UH, VERY EASILY ON THAT.

UM, WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT WHAT THE DESIGN WAS FOR, UM, UH, GRAVEL DRIVEWAYS, UH, AND OUR CURRENT OREGON'S TALKS ABOUT THIS TOO.

AND IT DOESN'T CHANGE MUCH, BUT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE NICE TO, YOU KNOW, REFLECT THAT, THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING WITH A, UH, CRUSHED CONCRETE BASE AND THEN A TOP GRAVEL, YOU KNOW, WHICH GIVES IT THE, OF THE COLOR AND SOME, UH, SURFACE DO THAT.

AND THEN WITH A DISTINCTIVE BORDER, THE CURRENT ORDINANCE REQUIRES A DISTINCTIVE BOARD OR SOMETHING TO HOLD THAT GRAVEL IN.

AND AS WE TALK ABOUT THAT, THAT'S GOING TO BE ESPECIALLY TRUE.

IF SOMEBODY PICKS A KIND OF AROUND TYPE GRAVEL, A PEA GRAVEL, OR A RIVERSTONE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT TENDS TO SLIDE MORE WHEN YOU DRIVE OVER AT, RATHER THAN, UH, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, RUGGED AGGREGATE.

AND WE'LL TALK SOME ABOUT THAT.

UH, UP HERE, THERE ARE SEVERAL TYPES IN THE ORDINANCE.

WE REFER TO THEM, UH, AS I DID SOME RESEARCH, THEY'RE KIND OF CALLED BY NUMBER, UH, THERE'S A FOUR 11, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS A, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, A RUGGED AGGREGATE, UH, NUMBER THREE IS ALSO RUGGED AGGREGATE 57, AS YOU CAN SEE, THESE ARE REALLY GOOD FOR DRIVING ON BECAUSE THEY TEND TO LOCK IN INTERLOCK AND DON'T SLIDE AS MUCH.

AND SO, AND THEY'RE BETTER ON A SLOPE, UH, WHEREAS YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO PUT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A ROUNDED GRAVEL ON A SLOPE, YOU KNOW, SLOPING DRIVEWAY OR SOMETHING.

THAT'S GOT A GOOD GRADE TO IT BECAUSE IT WILL TEND TO SLIDE OFF AND, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO AMEND IT UP IN THE STREETS.

I BET WE COULD TALK TO, UM, UH, UH, STEVE OLIVER OVER THERE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STUFF LIKE THIS ROLLING INTO STREETS.

WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT.

UH, BUT ALL OF THESE WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TOP COATS, ANY OF THESE TYPE, UH, OR ANYTHING THAT'S EVEN SIMILAR TO THAT WOULD BE AN ACCEPTABLE TOP COAT FOR A BASE.

WE'D PROBABLY WANT SOMETHING THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WOULD PACK AND, YOU KNOW, COMPACT AND BE SOLID, UH, SO THAT IT WOULDN'T SINK IN AND WOULDN'T GET MUDDY AND PUSHED INTO THE SUB EITHER SOME CO CRUSHED CONCRETE BASE OR SOME WHAT THEY CALL QUARRY BASE.

THAT'S GOT A LOT OF FINES IN SOME LARGE, SO THAT IT PACKS WELL.

UH, AND THOSE ARE CURRENTLY WHAT WE REQUIRE ANYWAY.

UH, AS WE TALKED ABOUT THAT, SOME OF THE THINGS WE DID WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS AS OWNER TO SHOW YOU SOME OF THESE, HOW THEY, HOW WE SEE THEM, AND THESE ARE EXISTING PHOTOS OF HOW PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO EXPAND THEIR DRIVEWAY AND GET IN.

AND WE'LL TALK SOME ABOUT THIS COMING ALL THE WAY UP TO THE SIDEWALK.

UM,

[00:05:01]

BECAUSE PART OF THE SIDEWALKS WERE REALLY WEREN'T MEANT FOR TRAVEL, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THICK AND WHERE THEY COME IN THROUGH THE APPROACH, BUT THEY'RE NOT REALLY WHERE THEY'RE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, OUT BEYOND THAT.

SO HERE'S HOW SOME OF THOSE FOLKS, YOU KNOW, ATTEMPTED THIS WAS ONE WHERE THE APPROACH IS THE SAME WIDTH.

ALTHOUGH THE APPROACH IS STRAIGHT RATHER THAN SWEPT ASIDE ON, ON THAT ONE, HERE'S ONE WITH A GRAVEL THAT THEY'VE COME IN AND THEY PUT A DARKER GRAVEL AND THEN GOTTEN BOARDER ON THEIR, UH, THIS ONE, THEY'VE GOT A PAVE STONE, UH, THAT THEY'VE USED ON A KIND OF A FIVE DEGREE ANGLE THAT THEY'VE EXPANDED THOSE.

NOW, WHAT WE, WHAT WE NORMALLY DO RIGHT NOW IS IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO EXPAND THEIR, THE DRIVEWAY, WE WILL REQUIRE THEM TO CUT THAT LIKE THAT AND MAKE THE CONCRETE THAT WAY, THUS FORCING PEOPLE TO, TO COME ACROSS HERE.

WHAT WE FOUND IS, IS IF WE ALLOW THEM TO COME BACK AND WE GO BACK ONE, SEE IF I GO BACK THIS WAY, THEY'LL JUST DRIVE UP.

THEY'LL COME THROUGH HERE AND DRIVE ON THE, THE MEDIAN, YOU KNOW, THE PARKWAY THROUGH HERE.

AND A LOT OF TIMES WE'VE GOT A WATER METER THERE AND THEY'LL CRUSH THE WATER METER AND CREATE PROBLEMS FOR US.

SO WHAT WE ATTEMPT TO DO IS EITHER HAVE THEM DO A 45 OR AN ANGLE ACROSS, OR WE'LL DO A LITTLE OJI CURVE SO THAT IT KIND OF FORCES THEM TO COME UP AND INTO THE PARKING LOT.

AND WE WOULD, UH, UH, ATTEMPT TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT AND REQUIRE THAT RATHER THAN BRINGING IT ALL THE WAY DOWN, UH, YOU KNOW, TO THE SIDEWALK.

UH, ONCE AGAIN, HERE'S JUST ONE ILLUSTRATION OF A BORDER.

THAT'S NOT BETTER THE BEST I KNOW THAT'S NOT IN FARMER'S BRANCH, BUT IT IS.

I WANT HER TO JUST SHOW HOW WE WOULD REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, A BORDER AROUND ANY OF THE GRAVEL DRIVEWAYS.

AND THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS, WHAT YOU'VE GOT BEFORE YOU AND THE CITY ATTORNEY CAN TALK ABOUT THE DRAFTED, UH, AMENDMENTS.

UH, THEY DO ADDRESS ALL THOSE THINGS.

WE DID CHANGE IT TO A 1970, UH, OR BEF PRIOR TO 1970, AS OPPOSED TO 1980, WHERE MOST OF THAT GOES, UH, IT ALSO DOES REDUCE THE CONCRETE.

THE OLD ORDINANCE SAID FIVE INCHES.

AND NORMALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS A FOUR INCH CONCRETE ON THOSE DRIVEWAYS ANYWAY, UH, CAUSE THEY USE A TWO BY FOUR OR A ONE BY FOUR, YOU KNOW, FOR THEIR BATTER BOARDS.

AND THEN THEY POUR UP TO THE TOP OF THAT.

SO WE THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, FIXING THAT AT THIS POINT MADE SOME SENSE, YOU KNOW, WAS TO FIX THAT.

AND WE'RE CERTAINLY OPEN IT FOR ANY QUESTIONS, UH, THAT YOU'VE GOT ON THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE.

MINI, ANY QUESTIONS I'LL GO TO QUESTION.

YEAH.

SO WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED THERE POURING UP WITH A TWO BY FOUR THAT'S ONLY WHAT, THREE AND A HALF INCHES, RIGHT? CORRECT.

OKAY.

SO IT'S THREE AND A HALF.

SO IT'S ONLY THE ONLY, I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT DOES THAT WELL, WE CALL IT A TWO BYTE.

WE CALL IT A TWO BY FOUR BECAUSE IT'S NOMINAL THICKNESS OF THE LUMBER.

AND THAT'S USUALLY WHAT WE SEE.

NORMALLY THEY'LL, THEY'LL SCRAPE OUT A LITTLE OF THE GRASS AND BACKFILL IS SAYING, WELL, THE SAND HAS NEVER LET PERFECTLY LEVEL, SO YOU'RE GOING TO GET IT AT THREE AND A HALF, THREE, MAYBE THREE INCHES, FOUR, FOUR AND A HALF, JUST BECAUSE OF THE DIPS.

NOW WE DO REQUIRE IF THEY'RE GOING TO POUR THE CONCRETE THAT THEY'VE GOT TO HAVE NUMBER THREE REBAR, UH, 16 INCHES ON CENTER THROUGH THE CONCRETE, AS OUR STANDARD REBAR IN THERE.

AND WE FIND THAT THAT'S A PRETTY ACCEPTABLE, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS, 30 YEARS DOWN THE LINE, WE MIGHT START SEEING SOME CRACKING, THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT WE FOUND THAT IT'S A PRETTY STABLE DRIVEWAY, UH, IF THEY DO THAT AND HAVE, UH, SAND CUSHION UNDERNEATH IT.

OKAY.

UM, AND THEN YOU MENTIONED, UM, HAVING THEM DO IT AT AN AND HAVE DO IT AT AN ANGLE.

SO THEY'RE NOT DRIVING OVER THE SIDEWALK.

WHERE IS THAT IN HERE? IT'S NOT, IT'S JUST GOING TO BE OUR STANDARD.

WE'LL JUST DRAW A STANDARD AND REFLECT THAT.

OKAY, COOL.

THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAD.

THANK YOU.

I DON'T REALLY HAVE A QUESTION.

IT'S JUST, I'M, I'M, I'M PLEASED WITH MOVING THIS TO 1970, BECAUSE WHEN WE WENT TO THE CAMELOT EVENT, I WAS ASKING SOME QUESTIONS AND SOME OF THE EARLIEST EARLIEST HOUSES THAT WERE BUILT IN THE SEVENTIES AND WERE DELIBERATELY TRYING NOT TO, TO MESS WITH NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THIS WOULD BE AN UNWELCOME CHANGE.

SO I'M, I'M VERY PLEASED WITH THE COMFORTABLE WITH THE YEAH.

PRIOR TO 1970.

OKAY.

JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE.

YEP.

I'M GOOD WITH THAT.

ONE QUESTION FOR THE COMMITTEE IS THAT UNDER ITEM FOUR B IT DOES SAY THE DIFFERENT NUMBERS OF THE STONE PLUS P GRAVEL.

AND THAT'S ONE THING MR. HILL TALKED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO INCLUDE THAT AS YOU WERE SPEAKING TO HAVING THAT AS THE TOP SURFACE, IF THERE'S ANY PROBLEMS WITH PEA, GRAVEL RUNNING OFF DUE TO SLOPES, DO WE WANT TO HAVE THAT AS AVAILABLE MATERIAL? WELL, HOW, HOW COMMON IS PEA GRAVEL FOR A YEP.

THE PETE WRAP WAS A LITTLE MORE EXPENSIVE, SO WE DON'T SEE IT ALL THAT OFTEN, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IT AS IT KIND OF SHOWED YOU THAT PICTURE, THIS ONE, YOU WILL SEE PEA GRAVEL IN THE HIGHER GRADES, UH, YOU KNOW, IN THE MORE EXPENSIVE HOMES, YOU WILL SEE THEM TRY AND USE PEA GRAVEL BECAUSE IT IS A HIGHER GRADE.

I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO DO,

[00:10:01]

IF IT'S ON A LEVEL SURFACE AND WELL BORDERED, IT WILL HOLD UP.

WELL, UM, IF IT'S NOT, IF IT'S ON A SLOPE OR IF IT'S GOT TOO MUCH OF A GRADE TO IT, YOU KNOW, WE WILL START LOSING IT AND IT'LL START PUSHING AROUND.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THAT ONE BE BORDERED.

WELL, UM, WE'RE NOT GONNA, WE DON'T, ONCE AGAIN, WE DON'T SEE IT ALL THAT.

OFTEN WE SEE MORE OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE ROUGHER AGGREGATES, UM, YOU KNOW, BEING USED SOME OF THE NUMBER THREES AND A FOUR ELEVEN'S MORE LIKELY IS WHAT WE'LL SEE.

BUT IF Y'ALL DON'T, IF YOU WANT TO, YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, HEY, WELL, YOU PROBABLY WON'T BECAUSE THIS IS FOR EXPANSIONS.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO SEE SOMEBODY USE THE PEA GRAVEL, IF YOU WANT TO ELIMINATE IT.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM.

IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR STAFF.

CERTAINLY.

YEAH.

I'D BE OKAY WITH ELIMINATING IT.

OKAY.

YEP.

WE STILL DO HAVE, OR EQUIVALENT THERE AT THE END.

RIGHT.

WE CAN LOOK AT IT AND SEE JUST TO HAVE IT NOT INCLUDED IN THE OFFICIAL LIST.

SURE.

YEP.

ALL RIGHT.

SO THEN THIS, THIS READY? SHOULD WE, YOU KNOW, READY TO SEND THIS TO COUNCIL? THIS ONE? YEP.

I'M READY? YUP.

STRIKE P GRAEBEL AND YOU NEED ANYTHING FROM NOPE.

OKAY.

I'M IN GOOD.

YEP.

I HAVE PEOPLE WAITING FOR THIS TRACKING IT.

OH, MOVING THROUGH THE PROCESS.

YEAH.

I TOLD THEM.

ALL RIGHT, THANK Y'ALL FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA THEN WILL BE THE TREE MITIGATION ORDINANCE.

I KNOW LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, PULL IT UP HERE, ANNUAL REPORTING AROUND IT, BRINGING IT TO COUNCIL, AND THEN POSSIBLE TRIGGERS THAT CHOIR COUNCIL ACTION.

UM, MORE DISGUISE.

I DON'T KNOW IF, IS THERE ANY OTHER PRESENTATION OTHER THAN NOT, OR JUST MORE DISCUSSION AMONG COMMITTEE ON, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S ANY OTHER INPUT WE CAN TAKE THAT AND INCORPORATE IT INTO THE ORDINANCE REVISIONS.

OTHERWISE I THINK WE CAN MOVE IT FORWARD.

OKAY.

DO, DO WE HAVE ANYTHING THAT'S BEEN PREPARED FOR US TO LOOK AT? I THOUGHT WE KIND OF CONCLUDED THIS LESSON, I GUESS I THOUGHT WE HAD.

YEAH.

I MEAN, I'M FINE.

WE WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT REPORTING AROUND CIP TIME HAVING THAT ANNUAL REPORTING AND THEN, UH, YEAH.

DEBRA BROUGHT THAT UP.

YEAH.

AND I THINK THAT WAS WHAT WE AGREED ON.

SO LET'S MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.

THEN WE'LL REPORT IT AROUND CIP.

HOW MUCH IS IN THE FUND.

AND THEN DURING THAT TIME, COUNCIL CAN DECIDE ON WHETHER ACTION IS REQUIRED BY THEM OR NOT.

AND JUST THEY'RE GOING TO GET A REPORT.

SO NO NECESSARILY CAP THAT REQUIRES US TO ACT, BUT THEY WILL HAVE THAT NUMBER FOR US AROUND THAT TIME.

SO THAT'S EASY TO DO.

ALL RIGHT.

VERY GOOD.

AND OUR LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS THE COST ESCALATION ON BOND PROJECTS.

AND I SEE WE HAVE SEVERAL PEOPLE HERE WITH THE PROJECT MANAGEMENT OFFICE.

SO THE NEW ITEM, THIS, THIS CAME UP AT THE WORK SESSION LAST WEEK.

SO I'LL JUST KIND OF GIVE SOME BRIEF COMMENTARY AND THEN WE'LL LOOK FOR DIRECTION FROM THE COMMITTEE.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF STAFF MEMBERS HERE THAT CAN KIND OF WEIGH IN ON IT.

UM, SO AT THE WORK SESSION LAST MONDAY, COUNCILMAN ALBAN, UH, REQUESTED A NEW AGENDA ITEM FOR US TO CONSIDER, UM, I GUESS KIND OF LOOKING AT INNOVATIVE WAYS TO HELP WITH COST ESCALATION RELATED TO BUILDING MATERIALS AND, UH, BOND PROJECTS.

UM, I THINK HE USED THE EXAMPLE OF CONCRETE AS A, AS A, UH, CERTAINLY WE'VE SEEN THE PRICE OF CONCRETE GO UP, UM, AND OTHER SUPPLY CHAIN IMPACTS ON OUR BOND PROJECTS.

UH, SO, UH, AGAIN, THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT AVENUES.

I THINK WE COULD TAKE THIS, UM, MIGHT BE GOOD JUST TO HEAR FROM, UH, I KNOW RICK AND SEAN ARE HERE FROM PROJECT MANAGEMENT OFFICE JUST TO GET SOME SENSE FOR, UH, WHAT, WHAT EXACTLY WE'RE SEEING IN THE, IN THE BIDS THAT ARE COMING IN AND THAT SORT OF THING.

UM, STEVE OLIVER, OUR STREETS DIRECTOR IS HERE TOO, WHO HAS LOT, A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH CONCRETE.

UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID WAS TRY TO CHASE DOWN, UM, YOU KNOW, APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON ON CONCRETE.

IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, WELL THIS REALLY, I THINK KIND OF GREW OUT OF THE SQUARE OF THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE AND SOME OF THE, THE PRICE INCREASES THAT WE SAW THERE.

SO HOW MUCH ARE WE PAYING FOR CONCRETE THERE VERSUS MAYBE ON A STREET PROJECT? AND IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO GET AN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, PATCH, PATCH WORK VERSUS A WHOLE BIG PROJECT.

SO ANYWAYS, A LITTLE BIT, A LITTLE BIT OF COMMENTARY THERE.

AGAIN, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF STAFF MEMBERS HERE THAT CAN KIND OF SPEAK TO THE, SPEAK TO THE ISSUE AND REALLY JUST WANT TO SEEK THE COMMITTEE'S INPUT ON WHERE DO WE GO WITH THIS AND WHAT QUESTIONS DO YOU HAVE AT THIS POINT? SO I'LL, I'LL TURN OVER TO YOU AND STAFF FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN.

OF COURSE, IF YOU HAVE HAVE ANSWERS, I THINK COUNCILMAN ALL WAS REALLY PUSHED FOR.

ARE THERE ANY AREAS WHERE WE CAN STOP PAUL? I KNOW, UH,

[00:15:01]

WE DON'T HAVE OUR OWN BATCH PLAN AND WE DON'T HAVE OUR OWN MANUFACTURING CAPABILITY READY FOR YOU IN THESE MATERIALS, BUT ARE THERE ANY AREAS WHERE MAYBE CRUSHED CONCRETE OR SOMETHING WE CAN STORE AND, OR PRE-BUY PIPE, IF THERE'S, WE COULD BUY CONCRETE PIPE, FOR INSTANCE NOW IS KIND OF HEDGE AGAINST FUTURE PRICE INCREASES.

IS THERE ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT? YEAH.

RICK OR SEAN? I DON'T KNOW.

WHO'S BEST TO RESPOND TO THAT IN GENERAL.

PUT IT ON SO I CAN TICK IT OFF RIGHT AWAY.

BRIAN, IS THIS OKAY TO SIT IN YOUR CHAIR? YES.

SORRY.

OH, NO, YOU'RE FINE.

YOU'RE FINE.

SO I GUESS WE WOULD REFER IT TO HEDGING MAYBE OR SOME, SOME OTHER FORM.

UH, IT'S HARD REALLY TO, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COLBERT PIPING, WE KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT STILL HAS TO BE DESIGNED.

WE'VE GOT TO SIZE IT.

IT'S GOTTA BE RATED.

SO THERE'S NOT REALLY AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I WILL TELL YOU DOWNTOWN, WE DID BUY THE CULVERTS AND GOT THAT WORD GOING PRIOR BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THERE'S ALWAYS A HUGE LEAD TIME.

SO THAT SAID WITH THAT LEAD TIME, BECAUSE IT'S GOTTA BE MANUFACTURED.

THAT'S THOSE ARE OUR OPPORTUNITIES TO GO THERE.

UH, AS FAR AS PRICING THAT WE'VE SEEN, IT'S REALLY ALL OVER THE PLACE.

I MYSELF TRY TO KEEP TRACK OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE METROPLEX.

AND I CAN'T, I CAN TELL YOU THAT YES, THERE IS A INCREASE, BUT IT'S HARD TO TIE IT TO SAY CONCRETE OR STEEL OR WHATEVER, BECAUSE EVEN IN THOSE AREAS, THEY TEND TO FLUCTUATE.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A WHILE BEFORE THE MARKET STABILIZES.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE IF I DID, I WOULDN'T BE WORKING HERE.

RIGHT.

AND I'M NOT SURE WHO, YOU KNOW, WHO CAN HELP US WITH THAT.

UH, BUT, BUT WE ARE LOOKING INTO THAT, THOSE POSSIBILITIES.

WE ALWAYS KEEP TRACK OF THAT.

WE'RE VERY CONCERNED.

UH, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE KNOW THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE.

I'VE HAD PROJECTS OUT THERE FOR US TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT THIS IS WHAT THIS PICTURE IS GONNA LOOK LIKE AT THIS TIME.

SO, SO WE'RE KEEPING TRACK OF IT.

WE'RE VERY CLOSELY WE, BUT, UH, BUT I DON'T WANT TO GO OUT THERE AND GIVE ANY PREDICTIONS AT THIS TIME.

CAN YOU GIVE US A LITTLE BIT OF, UM, HISTORICAL BIDS? WHAT YOU'VE SEEN VERSUS NOW, WHAT ITEMS SPECIFICALLY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GETTING THEM THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE INCREASE FROM PREVIOUS? SO, SO THE CLOSEST ONE THAT WE SEE THAT HAS OCCURRED HAS BEEN SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THE MOST OBVIOUS ONE.

WE HAVEN'T HAD ENOUGH OF OTHER PROJECTS THAT WE'VE GOT THAT, THAT BIDDING, AND WE CAN MAKE THOSE CALCULATIONS AT THAT TIME.

BUT I THINK LAURA, UM, LAST WEEK KIND OF GAVE A DESCRIPTION OF SOME OF THOSE CONCRETE PRICES THAT HAD ESCALATED.

MAYBE SOME OF THAT STILL BEEN IN THE BUSINESS THAT I'M IN.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT.

I ALWAYS TELL YOU, TAKE THAT WITH A, WITH A LOT OF CAUTION AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME RISK THAT THE CONTRACTORS HAVE TO WORK WITH AND BUILD IN THERE WHERE THEY DISGUISE OR WHERE THEY PUT THAT MONEY IN THAT RISK.

THERE'S NEVER AN, A LINE ITEM THAT SAYS RISK, RIGHT.

BUT THEY'LL MOVE IT IN.

AND SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S, I WOULD NOT TAKE THOSE NUMBERS AND SAY, OH, THIS IS WHAT THE MARKET IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

YOU KNOW, OH MY GOSH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW MUCH IT'S OVER.

UH, WE'RE JUST GONNA HAVE TO WAIT A LITTLE BIT AND SEE WHAT THOSE OTHER PRICES ARE COMING DOWN, BUT SAY CONCRETE, I'VE SEEN SOME AREAS BE, UH, UP TO 20% MORE EXPENSIVE STEEL PRICES, SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT.

BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, ARE WE DEALING WITH VERTICAL OR WE'RE DEALING WITH HORIZONTAL, OR W W WHAT ARE THE OTHER, UM, ECONOMIES OF SCALE THAT ARE GOING ON THAT WE'RE NOT TOTALLY AWARE OF? I, I CAN'T GET YOU THERE AT THIS TIME.

SO A LOT OF, I DON'T KNOW, I RECOGNIZE THAT, BUT I'D RATHER, YOU KNOW, I, I BELIEVE IN IF ANYBODY GIVES YOU SOME KIND OF CERTAINTY, I TH I WOULD BE VERY SUSPICIOUS OF SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU, RICK.

ALL RIGHT.

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO PAY ATTENTION TO IS THE BOTTOM IN FLORIDA.

YEP.

AND I JUST WANT A LITTLE JUST FOR CONFIRMATION.

SO, UH, THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO PRODUCE THESE THINGS THEMSELVES,

[00:20:01]

CORRECT? NOT RIGHT NOW.

NO.

OKAY.

NO NICE.

WE'RE OPENING A STEEL MEAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO, YEAH, BASED ON THE SUGGESTION THAT WAS MADE FOR US TO LOOK INTO, I JUST WANT TO HAVE THAT CONFIRMATION ON RECORD.

I WILL SAY ONE, UH, BECAUSE IT WAS REFERENCED AT THE MEETING LAST WEEK.

UM, THE CITY DOES LEASE, UH, LAND TO A ROCK CRUSHING FACILITY.

UH, WE DO HAVE, UH, A LEASE AND AN AGREEMENT IN PLACE WITH OUR COSA.

THAT'S THE COMPANY THAT OPERATES IT.

UH, THEY ACTUALLY DO PROVIDE US THAT ROCK.

AND STEVE OLIVER KIND OF HANDLES THAT IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT ONE SPECIFICALLY, BUT AGAIN, WE DON'T OPERATE IT, BUT WE BENEFIT FROM HAVING IT ON OUR LAND AND HAVE AN ARRANGEMENT WHERE WE BENEFIT FROM THAT OPERATION BEING THERE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

IF, IF WE HAD THE ANSWER TO THIS RIGHT NOW, WE WOULD BE, UM, PROBABLY A VERY WEALTHY CITY, BECAUSE THIS IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE NATION AND IT'S THE SAME EXACT ISSUES.

AND I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE GOLDEN KEY TO THAT DOOR.

SO I'M, I'M SAYING THIS IS MORE, MORE OF SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD, WE HAVE TO DO WHAT WE'RE CONTINUING TO DO NOW, AND DEAL WITH IT REAL TIME AND ORDER IN AHEAD OF TIME, WHATEVER THINGS MAKE SENSE TO DO.

LONG-TERM I KNOW COUNCILMAN ALBAN BEFORE HAS, UM, HAS ASKED, HAS WANTED TO OPEN AN ASPHALT PLANT IN THE CITY, WHICH, UM, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, DIDN'T, DIDN'T WORK OUT.

UM, SO IF WE WERE ABLE TO, YEAH, WE WOULD, IF WE HAD OUR OWN STEEL FACTORY, OUR OWN CONCRETE BATCH PLANT THAT BELONGED TO US, UM, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE SOME OF THESE THINGS, BUT EVEN THE RAW MATERIALS ARE COSTING MORE NOW.

SO, UM, I DON'T SEE AN IMMEDIATE SOLUTION OR EVEN AN IMMEDIATE PLAN THAT WE CAN PUT INTO EFFECT AT THIS POINT.

SO THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

SO WE'LL JUST CONTINUE TO MONITOR IT AND HAPPY TO REPORT THAT BACK TO COUNCIL, AS WELL AS THAT WE REALLY, AT THIS TIME, NOTHING WE CAN DO OTHER THAN JUST CONTINUE TO WATCH PRICES.

THEY FLUCTUATE.

SO ARE YOU GOOD? AND THAT WAS THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA.

THEN AT 4 41, WE ARE ADJOURNED.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.