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[00:00:01]

FOUR O'CLOCK THEN

[Development Services Committee on January 31, 2022.]

WE'LL GET STARTED THEN WELCOME EVERYONE TO THE JANUARY 31ST, 2022 DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE.

I'M DYLAN HEDRICK WITH ME.

I HAVE COUNSEL WOMAN MORRIS, AS WELL AS COUNCILMAN JEFF BASS.

UH, FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM OUR DECEMBER 13TH, 2021 MEETING.

MOVE TO HAVE A MOTION MOTION BY A SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

I'M MOON IS A PASS FROM THAT PREVIOUS MEETING.

NEXT STEP IS THE FIRST ITEM FOR OUR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION IS THE GARLAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REGULATION ON CELL PHONE TOWERS.

AND MR. GARREN, YOU SAID HE HAD A PRESENTATION READY FOR US? YES, SIR.

THANK YOU, COMMITTEE MEMBERS, MR. CHAIRMAN.

UM, ONE OF THE FIRST FOLLOW-UP WITH YOU ON SOME INFORMATION THE COMMITTEE REQUESTED LAST TIME, WHICH WAS, UM, A LITTLE MORE ZONING RELATED INFORMATION, UH, ABOUT, UH, THE OTHER CITIES AND WHAT THEY, UM, REQUIRE FOR THEIR CELL TOWERS, WHERE THEY REQUIRE THEM OR WHERE THEY ALLOW THEM, WHERE THEY DON'T.

UM, AND THEN AFTER THAT, WE DO HAVE, UM, MR. HUBINGER, UM, HERE WITH US TODAY.

SO AFTER THAT I CAN KIND OF PASS ALONG TO HIM AND HE'LL SHARE HIS INSIGHT, UM, WITH THE INDUSTRY.

UM, AS FAR AS CELL TOWERS GO, SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER HIM.

HE WAS A RECENT APPLICANT ACTUALLY FOR A CELL TOWER RELOCATION IN GARLAND.

UM, BUT I'LL JUST START OFF, UM, MR. CHAIRMAN WITH LITTLE INFORMATION.

I WON'T, I CAN CERTAINLY, UH, PAUSE OR GO BACK TO ANY INFORMATION THAT WENT OVER LAST TIME, BUT I'LL JUST KIND OF FOCUS ON THE NEW INFORMATION, THE ZONING.

I KIND OF JUST ADDED IT TO THE SLIDES FROM LAST TIME, BUT AGAIN, JUST FEEL FREE TO, UM, HAVE ME GO BACK AND BE GLAD TO GO THROUGH ANYTHING, BUT, UH, MENTIONED THE EXEMPTIONS LAST TIME FOR SOME OF THE GDC REGULATIONS, UM, YOU KNOW, PUBLICLY OWNED ANTENNA IN TENNIS MOUNTAIN ON, UH, MOUNTED ON CITY OF GARLAND, WATER, STORAGE TANKS, THINGS OF THAT SORT, UM, UH, GIS HAS SOME EXEMPTIONS FROM THE ZONING RELATED, UH, REGULATIONS, UM, SOME GENERAL STANDARDS, JUST VERY HIGH LEVEL.

UM, COMMERCIAL ANTENNAS REQUIRE AN SUP IF THEY EXCEED THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT REQUIREMENT FOR THAT ZONING DISTRICT THAT THEY'RE IN THAT'S PRIMARILY NON-RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS.

THEY'RE, UH, GENERALLY PROHIBITED IN RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS FOR ATTACHING TO UTILITY STRUCTURES AND DOING A STEALTH, UH, DESIGN.

UM, UH, PLAINTIFF MENTIONED THE WENT OVER THIS LAST TIME THAT THEY HAVE A LITTLE CHART FOR, UM, TOWER TYPES, UM, AND DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS BETWEEN TWO DIFFERENT, UM, UH, FREESTANDING TOWERS.

UM, BUT AS FAR AS THE ZONING INFORMATION GOES, UM, THERE'S IS, UH, KIND OF SIMILAR TO GARLAND'S IS THAT THEY, UM, UH, PROHIBIT, UH, FREESTANDING COMMERCIAL ANTENNAS AND RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, BUT SPECIFICALLY WHEN THEY'RE USED OR PLANTED FOR, UM, SINGLE FAMILY USE OR SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED TO USE.

UM, UH, BUT OTHERWISE THEY DO HAVE, UM, ALLOWANCES FOR STEALTH DESIGN ATTACHING UTILITY STRUCTURES, UM, SMALL CELL NODES, THINGS OF THAT SORT, UM, PRETTY SIMILAR TO GARLAND.

AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO NON-RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, UM, THEY ARE, UH, ALLOWED CELL TOWERS ARE ALLOWED WHEN THEY'RE 60 FEET OR LESS IN HEIGHT.

UM, THAT'S A LOT ABOUT RIGHT, AND THEN ANYTHING ABOVE 60 FEET IN HEIGHT THAT TRIGGERS THE SUP PROCESS.

UM, AND OF COURSE THERE'S SOME SUBJECT TO CERTAIN SETBACKS FROM RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS.

UM, ARLINGTON I KIND OF ADDED THE NEW INFORMATION TOWARDS THE BOTTOM AS FAR AS, UM, AGAIN, KIND OF THE ZONING AND USE ALLOWANCE.

I'LL KIND OF FOCUS ON THAT.

UM, BUT, UH, THEY, UH, UH, REQUIRED SUP'S FOR RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, REGARDLESS OF HEIGHT.

UM, BUT IN NON RESIDENTIAL AND MIXED USE ZONING DISTRICTS, UM, IF IT'S LESS THAN 75 FEET IN HEIGHT OR LESS THAN 100 FEET IN HEIGHT FOR A STEALTH DESIGN, UM, IT'S ALLOWED BY, RIGHT.

BUT IF IT'S OVER THAT THRESHOLD, THEN IT TRIGGERS THE SUP PROCESS.

THAT'S AN ARLINGTON, UH, DENTON.

THEY'VE GOT A, A NICE LITTLE CHART HERE, BUT, UH, JUST KIND OF FOCUSING ON THE FREESTANDING TOWERS, UM, THEY APPEAR TO BE, UH, NOT ALLOWED IN RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS.

UM, UH, AGAIN, THIS IS KIND OF YOUR STANDARD FREESTANDING TOWERS, UM, REGARDLESS OF HEIGHT, BUT, UH, THEY ARE ALLOWED IN NON-RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS.

UM, AND WHETHER IT'S BY RIDE OR BY SUP DEPENDS ON THE HEIGHT OF THAT, UH, LET'S SEE GRAND PRAIRIE.

UM, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED IN RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS REGARDLESS OF HEIGHT, UM, WHEN IT'S AND THEIR FOOT THRESHOLD IS 85 FEET, UM, WHETHER IT'S BY RIGHT OR BY SUP, AND THEN FINALLY, IRVING, I THINK I HAVE TWO MORE ACTUALLY, UH, IRVING, THEY HAVE A HEIGHT OF, UM, KIND OF A HARD CAP AT 120 FEET IN HEIGHT FOR THE FREESTANDING TOWERS.

UM, THEY, UH, MUST BE A MINIMUM OF 200 OR A THREE TO ONE DISTANCE HEIGHT RATIO, WHICH IS THE SAME AS GARLAND, UM, THE SETBACK FROM RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS.

UM, AND THEN TELL THEM TELECOMMUNICATION TOWERS SHALL

[00:05:01]

BE PERMITTED ONLY IN AN S P ONE SITE PLAN DISTRICT.

I'M LOOKING AT THEIR CODE THAT APPEARS TO BE VERY SIMILAR PROCESS LIKE A PD PROCESS IN GARLAND.

IT BASICALLY ALLOWS A PROCESS FOR THEM TO BE, UM, PRESENTED, UH, IN IRVING, BUT THEY'RE THE SUBJECT TO A FULL PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS WHERE THE PLANE COMMISSION AND COUNCIL ARE REVIEWING THE FULL DETAILS, DETAILED SITE PLAN, ELEVATIONS, THINGS OF THAT SORT.

SO IT SOUNDS PRETTY SIMILAR TO A PD OR A, OR EVEN AN SUP PROCESS.

UM, LET'S SEE RICHARDSON.

UM, THEY ARE ALLOWED IN MOST ZONING DISTRICTS, INCLUDING SOME RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, UH, SPECIFICALLY, UM, THE KIND OF SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AND LARGER LOT SINGLE FAMILY DISTRICTS.

ONCE YOU GET INTO THE DUPLEX TOWNHOUSE AND MULTI-FAMILY ZONING DISTRICTS, UM, THEY'RE NOT LISTED AS AN ALLOWED USE.

UM, ANTENNA INSTALLATION SHALL COMPLY WITH THE HEIGHT AND AREA REGULATIONS OF THE APPLICABLE ZONING DISTRICT.

UM, AND THE SUPPORT STRUCTURE, UH, SHALL NOT EXCEED 125 FEET IN HEIGHT.

SO REALLY JUST THE FIRST THE HEIGHT OF THE ZONING DISTRICT, WHICH RICHARDSON DOES, AND SOME OF THEIR COMMERCIAL AND OFFICE ZONING DISTRICTS, THEY DO HAVE A MAX HEIGHT OF 130 FEET TO ALLOW FOR TALL OFFICE BUILDINGS, THINGS OF THAT SORT.

YOU SEE SOME OF THOSE LONG HIGHWAY 75 AND, UH, GEORGE BUSH.

UM, AND THEN AGAIN, I KIND OF WENT OVER THE DISTANCES BETWEEN TOWERS, AS OUR REMINDER, GARLAND HAD, DOES HAVE A MINIMUM DISTANCE OF 5,000 FEET, UH, FOR A NEW FREESTANDINGS CELL FREESTANDING CELL TOWER FROM AN EXISTING ONE.

UM, MOST CITIES HAVE FOUND, UH, AT LEAST FROM THIS OF COURSE SAMPLE, UM, HAVE A SIMILAR REQUIREMENT, WHETHER IT'S 5,000 FEET OR ONE MILE, UM, SOME OF THEM, IT DEPENDS ON THE HEIGHT.

UM, RICHARDSON DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE A MINIMUM DISTANCE THOUGH, BETWEEN CELL TOWERS.

THEY, UM, HAVE A MAXIMUM OF THREE ANTENNAS AND EQUIPMENT BUILDINGS, UH, TO BE LOCATED ON A SINGLE WATER STRUCTURE, BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE EXTENT OF IT IN ADDITION TO THE ZONING REGULATIONS.

UM, BUT WITH THAT COMMITTEE, I CAN PAUSE THERE, IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.

AND AGAIN, WE DO HAVE MR. HERBINGER HERE AS WELL.

ANY QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT, GREAT.

I'LL PULL UP.

HE'S GOT A FEW SLIDES FOR US.

PULL THOSE UP.

THERE YOU GO.

YOU CAN JUST KIND OF DO THE UP AND DOWN ARROW.

THANK YOU ALL FOR SEEING ME, UM, APPRECIATE THE INVITE TO TALK ABOUT THIS WHEN THERE'S NOT A CRITICAL SIDE INVOLVED AND I'M NOT SO NERVOUS, BUT, UM, UH, I WANTED TO DO THIS.

I TALKED TO WILL ABOUT, SO I WANT TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF, UM, THAT ARROW, WHICH ARROW, MAYBE THE MOUSE THAT WORKS TOO.

I WANTED TO JUST GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF WIRELESS.

ONE-ON-ONE ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

WHAT'S COMING DOWN THE PIKE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO YOU'RE WELL AWARE OF HOW THESE THINGS REALLY, REALLY WORK FROM INSIDE.

OF COURSE YOU HAVE THIS STANDARD MONOPOLE, IT IS, IT'S ACTUALLY THE BEST ONE.

YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE HOW MANY TIMES I COME INTO A COUNCIL MEETING AND SAY, WHERE'S THE CLOSEST TOWER TO YOU.

THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THERE'S ONE RIGHT BEHIND THEM, BUT IT, IT, IT, IT YOU'RE IN THE INDUSTRY.

YOU NOTICE IT, IF IT'S RIGHT ON THE CORRIDOR, YOU NOTICE IT.

UM, A FEW YEARS BACK, THEY STARTED PUTTING THEIR RADIO HEADS UP ON THE TOP FOR BETTER COVERAGE AND THE VOLTAGE, THE VOLTAGE PROTECTORS.

UM, SO THAT'S INCREASING THE COVERAGE THERE, BUT ONE THING I WANT YOU TO NOTICE ON THE SLIDE, THEY PUT AS MANY ANTENNAS ON THE TOP AS POSSIBLE.

NOW, AS THE TECHNOLOGY ADVANCE FROM CDMA TO VOLTI TO NOW 5G, THEY STILL HAVE CUSTOMERS USING SOME OF THE 4G VOLTI.

SO THEY LEAVE THOSE ANTENNAS UP FOR AWHILE.

UM, AND THEN NOW THEY'RE PUTTING THE 5G SAMSUNGS UP THERE.

UM, SO THEY NEED AS MUCH SPACE AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN.

THIS IS JUST INFORMATIONAL, OBVIOUSLY HEIGHT, THIS KING, IF YOU GET A BIG RURAL TOWER OUTSIDE YOUR CITY, UM, EVERYBODY GOES ON IT.

UM, THE MORE HEIGHT, THE BETTER, BECAUSE IT TALKS, IT'S LIKE A HOSE THAT SPRAYS OUT.

IT COULD TALK TO A LOT OF, UH, THINGS AND IT'S NOT REALLY FUNCTIONING, NOT REALLY OVERCAPACITY IN A FUNCTIONING AREA, OUTSIDE THE MAIN POPULATION.

UM, HERE'S ONE OF IN YOUR TOWN, THE CHASE BANK WE'VE WORKED ON THIS BEFORE.

UM, NOT REALLY NOTICEABLE, BUT VERY, VERY PRODUCTIVE.

YOU CAN PUT A LOT OF EQUIPMENT AND TENANTS UP THERE ON THE ROOFTOP.

AND, UH, IT IS, IT IS QUITE EXPENSIVE.

THESE, THESE PEOPLE CHARGE QUITE A BIT FOR THE ROOFTOPS AS WELL.

UM, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T PUT AN ENCORE TRANSMISSION POLE IN THERE, AND I, I NOTICED THAT COMING IN BECAUSE WE DO A LOT OF THAT IN DALLAS FORT WORTH AREA, BUT USING EXISTING VERTICAL INFRASTRUCTURE IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT.

THESE ARE TWO

[00:10:01]

EXAMPLES, BUT THEY TEND TO BE FLUSH MOUNTS.

THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT TIGHT.

SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE DIFFERENT ELEVATIONS OF YOUR ANTENNA FOR A SINGLE CARRIER.

SO THEY, YOU CAN SEE, THEY CAN'T PUT ALL NINE OF THEIR ANTENNAS AT ONE SPOT, WHICH IS REALLY THE GOAL FOR EACH CARRIER TO MAXIMIZE THAT HEIGHT.

SO STEALTH VERY IMPORTANT, UH, WELL MENTIONED STUFF.

WE DO STEALTH A LOT, BUT WE'RE REALLY MOVING AWAY FROM THESE UNIT POLES.

THEY'RE SO HARD TO DEAL WITH, UM, THEIR OPERATIONS PEOPLE ON AT AND T AND VERIZON DON'T WANT THEM ANYMORE.

YOU CAN SEE HOW THEY CLUSTER THEM INSIDE THAT CANISTER.

UM, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR MAINTENANCE.

UM, THE RADIO HAS HEAT UP.

SO NOW THEY'RE DRILLING HOLES IN THOSE CANISTERS.

SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY WILL STAY AWAY FROM ANOTHER, UH, TYPICAL STEALTH IS THE, THE STRUCTURES.

THIS IS ONE IN GARLAND.

UM, JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE TOWER CLEANERS.

UM, THIS IS ANOTHER ONE THAT IS, IS VERY EXPENSIVE, BUT IT'S EXPANDABLE.

AND IT'S ALSO, CO-LOCATED DOUBLE FOR OTHER CARRIERS AS WELL.

UM, PALM TREES, NOT HERE, BUT THEY WORKED WELL, SOUTH TEXAS.

UM, PEOPLE ARE GOING, ESPECIALLY PLANO AND DENTON ARE GOING TO THESE TREES.

THEY'RE VERY NOTICEABLE.

I MEAN, I WOULD COME IN IN FRONT OF THIS COUNCIL OR THIS COMMITTEE AND SAY, I'D PROBABLY RECOMMEND NOT DOING IT BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST, SO THEY STAND OUT SO MUCH AND THEY NEED HEIGHT.

BUT WHEN, WHEN YOU DO GO IN A REAL TREE, THAT'S THE FACTORY.

THAT IS A FACTORY THAT, THAT IS INSURANCE, TEXAS.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO CARRY TWO OR THREE, UH, UH, COLOCATORS ON IT, BUT IT'S, IT KIND OF STANDS OUT A BIT.

YEAH, WE'RE GETTING INTO THE SEPARATION DISTANCE.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE FILE, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO PROVIDE THE RF INFORMATION.

AND I KNOW YOU TALK ABOUT WHERE YOUR JUST INSIGHTS.

AREN'T, HERE'S ONE THAT WE ALREADY DID A YEAR AGO.

YOU CAN SEE THE RED AREAS, UM, KIND OF, UH, UH, WHAT ARE THEY CALLED, UM, THE THREE SECTORS OF THOSE AREAS AND WHERE THEIR EXISTING SITES ARE AND WHERE THE PROPOSED SITES ARE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TYPICALLY ALONG THE MAIN CORRIDORS, THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN CLOSER TO A MILE BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC AND THE CAPACITY.

WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT LATER.

UM, BUT THIS ONE'S GOING TO BE, UM, ABOUT A HALF A MILE AWAY FROM TWO OTHER SIDES.

SO IT WAS NEEDED FOR CAPACITY ISSUE.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW.

UM, IF YOU ASK THE CARRIERS TO PROVIDE YOU THEIR CAPACITY GRAPHS, THEY'RE VERY SHY ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THIS IS ALL PROPRIETARY, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE STANDARD TREND GOING UP IN THE YELLOW.

YOU SEE THE CAPACITY LIMITS AND RED, UM, AND YOU CAN SEE THE SPIKES.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING SUCH A HARD, HARD TIME, ESPECIALLY AFTER COVID IN KEEPING DOWNLOAD SPEEDS.

GOOD.

WE'RE DROPPING CALLS.

YOU'RE IN A QUEUE FOR A WHILE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING TO EACH SITE.

NOW W WHAT THEY DO TO REMEDY THIS IS ADD MORE ANTENNAS, BUT WHEN THEY'RE OUT OF DOING THAT, AND THEY'RE IN A STEALTH FACILITY, THEY CAN'T DO THAT AS WELL.

SO THAT'S KIND OF IT, THIS IS CAPACITY DRIVING A SEPARATION DISTANCE, SMALLER, SMALLER SITES, UM, HEIGHT.

THIS IS REALLY KEY, BUT IN THE END, COVID CHANGED THE NETWORK BECAUSE WE'RE NOW DEALING WITH ROOFTOPS MORE, MUCH MORE, AND EVERYTHING IS BACKWARDS.

SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE COMING IN A LOT AND ASKING FOR MORE SITES IN CLOSER TO RESIDENTIAL AREAS.

AND THIS IS A GREAT SLIDE BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'VE SEEN IT BEFORE, CAUSE I USE IT BEFORE HERE, BUT IT TELLS YOU HOW MANY APPS YOU'RE RUNNING.

I MEAN, WE'RE JUST RUNNING SO MANY APPS AT ONE TIME.

IT'S CRAZY.

UM, I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MANY I HAVE, BUT GARLAND ALERT.

ALSO, WE TALKED TO THE CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER OVER THERE AT GPD, THEY USE TECHS.

SO THEY'RE ALSO GETTING THAT INFORMATION OUT IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS IN THE CITY.

SO WITH THAT, I'LL, I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FROM? YES.

WHEN YOU MENTIONED, UM, OF COURSE.

I MEAN, IT MAKES SENSE RIGHT ON THIS SLIDE RIGHT HERE, MORE CAPACITY REQUIRES MORE THAN 10 IS WHEN YOU SAY MORE THAN 10 MINUTES, IS THAT, DO THEY PUT MORE ANTANAS ON A POLE OR DOES THAT MEAN MORE TOWERS AS, UM, WHEN THEY REACH A CAPACITY ON A SITE, LET'S JUST GO WITH THE STANDARD SITE WHEN THEY REACHED THAT CAPACITY, THEY HAVE TO OFFLOAD THAT TRAFFIC.

SO THEY'LL BE ASKING YOU FOR ANOTHER SITE WITHIN HALF A MILE OR SO.

SO I CAN'T JUST TAKE MORE CHANNELS ON THAT ONE POLE WHEN THEY GET NINE UP THERE.

THAT'S ABOUT IT STRUCTURALLY IT'S ALL, ALL CAN HANDLE WHEN YOU SAY NINE.

OKAY.

I MEAN, WE'VE GOT HOW MANY DIFFERENT CARRIERS FOR FOUR

[00:15:01]

MAJOR CARRIERS.

OKAY.

SO I GUESS I'M GOING TO I'M ALONG THE LINES OF THINKING TO ALL FOUR OF THEM PRETTY MUCH ARE ON THAT POLE, CORRECT? WELL, NO, THEY USED TO NOT PLAY WELL TOGETHER.

THEY DO NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REALLY BUILDING THEIR OWN TOWERS EXCEPT FOR VERIZON.

SO PREDOMINANTLY YOU'LL HAVE EVERYBODY COOPERATING, BUT THEY HAVE SEPARATE NETWORKS.

RIGHT.

THEY HAVE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS AND THEY STARTED OUT LONG TIME AGO LIKE THAT.

SO IF ONE MONOPOLE THE WHOLE NINE AND 10 HAS THOSE NINE ARE SHARED BETWEEN THE FOUR.

NO, THOSE ARE THOSE THAT RIGHT HERE EXACTLY.

IS AT T AND T.

OKAY.

SO THAT'S ALL, THAT'S ALL AT.

AND T IS EQUIPMENT.

THEY RESERVE THAT SPACE AND THAT SIT IN LINE ON THE ANTENNA BELOW THAT AS VERIZON, THEY, THEY CAN STILL EXPAND ON THAT SITE THERE, BUT AT AND T IS FINISHED COMPLETELY.

OKAY.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, IN THIS CASE, IF AT AND T NEEDED MORE CAPACITY, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BUILD ANOTHER POLE.

THEY HAVE TO BUILD ANOTHER POLE.

THEY DON'T GO IN THE SAME LOCATION BECAUSE THEY LOOK AT THE RF OVER JARIUS.

NOW THEY ALL HAVE IN VEHICLE COVERAGE, THEY'RE JUST LOOKING FOR CAPACITY DOWNLOADS.

SO THEY'LL GO SOMEWHERE ELSE WHERE IT MEETS THE CRITERIA FROM, FROM WILL'S DEPARTMENT AND THEN CAN GET PULLED IN FOR AN SUP.

OKAY.

AND THEN ARE YOU GOING TO TALK TO US ABOUT THE 5G AND HOW THAT'S DIFFERENT? I CAN, UM, CAUSE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE TOWERS ARE EVEN DIFFERENT, IS THAT RIGHT? UM, THERE'S DIFFERENT LEVELS OF 5G.

JUST THE THING IS THE INDUSTRY DID A TERRIBLE JOB, EDUCATING PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT IT IS.

UM, THEY, THEY GO ON SMALL CELLS, SO THEY'RE VERY LOW POWERED AND, AND I THINK YOU HAVE WHAT, FIVE OR SIX MILES DOWN HERE, DOWNTOWN.

UM, BUT NOW THEY'RE PUTTING THEM ON THE BIG, THE MACROS WE CALL THEM THE MACRO SITES.

SAMSUNG IS, IS INVENTED AN ANTENNA THAT WILL PROJECT QUITE A WAYS.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO START PUTTING THOSE ON THERE.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO START ADDING, SEE BAN, WHICH YOU'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THEY'RE ON SEE BAN 5G IN, IN THE DALLAS FORT WORTH MARKET, BUT THEY WERE TOLD TO KEEP IT TONED DOWN.

I DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD A VOLUME CONTROL, BUT TONED DOWN AROUND THE AIRPORTS THAT RELEASED THIS MORNING, UH, VERIZON WILL HAVE MILLIMETER BAND, WHICH IS EVEN FASTER.

SO, SO I THINK I KNOW EVERY MACRO IS GOING TO HAVE 5G ANTENNAS.

EVENTUALLY YOUR PHONE'S GOING TO SAY 5G, MAYBE IT'S, IT'S, IT'S REALLY AN ACCELERATED 4G, BUT 5G IS GOING TO BE AMAZING WHEN THE MILLIMETER BAND COMES OUT TO SEE BANDS GOOD AND IT'S FASTER.

UH, BUT THE MILLIMETER BAND IS GOING TO BE REALLY, REALLY STRONG AND POWERFUL AND FAST.

UM, THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO REPLACE CABLE WITH GOOD COVERAGE.

SO YOU'LL, YOU'LL BUY A SMART TV AND YOU'LL HOOK UP TO THAT'S LIKE YOUR CELL PHONE.

SO IS THAT GOING TO REQUIRE A LOT MORE TOWERS? I MEAN, ARE WE GOING TO BE SEEING A LOT MORE REQUESTS FOR MORE TOWERS? UM, NO, I DON'T SEE A LOT MORE.

I SEE, I SEE YOUR, I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN WITH SPACING DISTANCES THAT ARE REALLY IN BETWEEN WHERE THERE ARE.

UM, I THINK THEY'LL ALSO COME UP WITH A LOT OF SOLUTIONS FOR USING VERTICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

LIKE ROOFTOPS ENCORE, THINGS.

THEY TRIED EVERYTHING THEY CAN NOT TO BUILD A TOWER WHEN IT'S THE LAST RESORT THEY'LL COME IN AND SAY, OKAY, GO AHEAD AND OKAY, LET'S GO FOR IT.

THEY'LL, THEY'LL TRY EVERYTHING.

UM, NOW THEY DON'T ALL GET ALONG AGAIN.

LIKE I SAID, SOME OF THE TOWER COMPANIES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, IT'S REALLY HARD TO EXPLAIN THAT IN FRONT OF A COUNCIL THAT SBA AND VERIZON AREN'T DOING BUSINESS, UH, CROWN AND T-MOBILE DON'T DO BUSINESS.

UM, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE DEAL IS.

YEAH.

I MEAN, MY WHOLE REASON FOR WANTING TO LOOK AT THIS IS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT, CAUSE I REMEMBER WHEN YOU CAME IN THE FIRST TIME, IT SOUNDED LIKE SOME OF THE NUMBERS, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, DISTANCES BETWEEN TOWERS, THE INDUSTRY SOUNDED LIKE IT WAS, WE WEREN'T ON THE SAME PAGE WITH THEM.

AND SO TO ME, I WANT TO, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO TRY TO MAKE EVERYTHING AS SYMBIOTIC AS POSSIBLE.

SO MORE INFORMATION WE GET THE BETTER DECISIONS WE CAN MAKE.

AND THEN ALSO WITH THE 5G COMING OUT THE WEEK, YOU KNOW, IF WE DO ANYTHING THAT WE DO, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO THE FUTURE AS WELL, YOU KNOW? AND SO WE'RE PREPARED FOR THAT TOO.

SO THAT'S REALLY, WHAT I WANT TO DO IS JUST TRY TO GET US ALL ON THE SAME PAGE AND TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE, AS A CITY ARE LOOKING TO THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS OUR PLANS GO.

AND SO ANY INFORMATION YOU HAVE THAT CAN HELP US MAKE THOSE DECISIONS, WE REALLY APPRECIATE.

YEAH.

IT'S I WOULD THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE BUILDING, UM, I DUNNO AGAIN, FINDING, FINDING OTHER SOLUTIONS INSTEAD OF BUILDING TOWERS IS ALWAYS THEIR FIRST PRIORITY, BUT I THINK YOU'LL SEE A DOZEN OR SO COME IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.

OKAY.

AND, UM,

[00:20:02]

WHAT IS A FRIGGING, WHAT IS OUR WILL KROGER REQUIREMENT RIGHT NOW IS 5,000 FEET BETWEEN TOWERS 5,000.

OKAY.

AND HOW DOES THAT, HOW DOES THAT, UH, WORK WITH WHAT THE CELL PHONE INDUSTRY, ONCE DISTANCE BETWEEN TOWERS? WE, YOU CAN'T REALLY, YOU CAN'T YEAH.

YOU CAN'T PUT THAT NUMBER ON.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ASKED FOR VARIANTS, LIKE WE DID, UH, IN THE LAST ONE AND WE'RE GRANTED, BUT YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GIVEN THAT.

UM, IT'S GOING TO BE LESS THAN THAT AT TIMES, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE LOT OF THE CITIES AND IN THIS AREA DO STEALTH AND YOU'RE TIED TO THE SMALL AMOUNT OF ANTENNAS.

SO NOW YOU'RE STRUGGLING WITH THAT.

UM, I'VE SEEN CITIES COME UP WITH, IF YOU'RE GOING STEALTH, IF YOU COME UP WITH A GOOD SOLUTION THAT NOT REALLY A STANDARD MONOPOLE, THEN YOU WAVED THE SET SEPARATION REQUIREMENTS.

I'VE SEEN HIM DO THAT, WHICH IS, WHICH IS SMART INCENTIVE.

YEAH.

OKAY.

AND I THINK OF COURSE WAS AT THE FRONT OF THE CITY AND FROM THE CITIZEN STANDPOINT, STUFF WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE WAY TO GO.

RIGHT.

CAUSE THEY DON'T SEE IT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE ALWAYS GOING TO CHOOSE.

YEAH.

THERE ARE SO EXPENSIVE.

UM, AND UM, YEAH, YOU WON'T SEE ANY OF THE UNIT PAULS OR THE FLAGPOLES VERY MUCH ANYMORE.

YOU'LL SEE MORE LIKE WHAT THAT, UH, TOWER IN, IN GARLAND, DOWNTOWN ON GARLAND DRIVE.

UM, AND EVEN THAT IS TOUGH TO BUILD.

AWESOME.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT ALL.

I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS.

I, I AGREE WITH COUNCILMAN BASSETT.

IT, IT WOULD, I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO BE AS, AS, UM, SYNCHRONIZED WITH AREA CITIES SO THAT WE DON'T DRIVE EVERYBODY CRAZY, UM, COMING IN AND TRYING TO DO THINGS WHERE EVERY CITY HAS DIFFERENT RULES.

RIGHT.

IT'S CRAZY MAKING.

AND I GET THAT.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US, UM, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE FIND THE SWEET SPOT THAT'S, UM, THAT WE CAN LIVE WITH.

AND THAT'S VERY SIMILAR TO OUR SISTER CITIES IN THE AREA.

THE, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, AND, AND WE'LL, I KNOW YOU BROUGHT US INFORMATION FROM ALL THE DIFFERENT CITIES.

CAN THAT BE PUT INTO A METRIC WHERE WE, YOU KNOW, GARLAND RICHARDSON, IRVING RATING ACROSS YEAH.

JUST WHERE IT WOULD BE A REALLY EASY COMPARISON JUST TO LOOK ACROSS FOR EACH OF THE, EACH OF THE THINGS.

SO WE CAN SEE WHERE WE ARE ON THE, ON THE METRIC.

THAT WOULD BE, I WOULD FIND THAT HELPFUL.

UM, YES.

AND RESIDENTS DO VASTLY PREFER THE STEALTH INSTALLATIONS.

I GUESS THE STEALTH INSTALLATIONS WORK.

UM, THEY WORK WELL.

THEY'RE JUST A PAIN THEY'RE EXPENSIVE AND THEY THAT'S A QUESTION.

DO THEY WORK AS WELL AS NOT ALWAYS.

THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO BRING THIS UP TO YOU.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE RESTRICTIONS ON EVEN A DROP AND SWAP, AND THESE ARE TWO GOOD EXAMPLES AND CONSIDER THAT ENCORE TRANSMISSION TOWER TOO LIKE THAT.

UM, THEY HAVE, THEY'RE VERY WIRELESS FRIENDLY AND THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET THAT DONE, BUT THEY HAVE LIMITED STRUCTURAL CAPACITY.

SO WHEN YOU PUT THREE OR SIX, YOU'RE ALMOST DONE AND IT'S VERY, VERY HARD TO GET THESE THINGS TO WORK AS WELL.

SAME THING WITH THIS, THE, THE, THE FLAGPOLES NOW ARE REALLY SO DIFFICULT TO DO.

THESE ARE EXPENSIVE, BUT THEY DO WORK WELL.

OKAY.

BUT YOU'LL, YOU'LL GET PUSHBACK FROM A LOT OF TOWER COMPANIES THAT WANT TO, YOU KNOW, WANT TO COME IN HERE AND SAY, I REALLY DON'T WANT TO BUILD THAT.

I WANT TO BUILD A STANDARD MONOPOLE, BUT THEY CAN DO THIS.

NOW, THIS PAYS FOR ITSELF WHEN YOU GET A COUPLE OF, OR THREE CARRIERS IN IT.

SO DON'T BE SHY ON THE HEIGHT.

LET, LET THEM HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE HEIGHT THAN 60, 75 FEET.

I THINK THIS WAS PRETTY SHORT ONE, BUT YEAH, INCENTIVIZE THE COSTS AND, AND, AND GIVE THEM A LITTLE BIT OF HEIGHT SO THEY CAN TRY TO PUT THINGS TOGETHER ON THEIR END TO OKAY.

UM, THAT WAS ALL MY REQUESTS BY ANNOUNCING ANYTHING I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR JUST FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION WOULD BE THE, THE CHART.

SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, CHUCK.

OKAY.

I THINK THERE'S REALLY TWO BIG CONSIDERATIONS THERE THAT WE LOOK AT.

ONE IS THE DISTANCE AND ONE'S THE HEIGHT.

THAT'S OBVIOUS TWO THINGS.

THE 5,000 SEEMS PRETTY CLOSE TO THE DISTANCE BETWEEN MAJOR STREETS.

CITY BLOCKS ARE TYPICALLY A MILE BY A MILE.

SO THAT'S AT LEAST YOU'RE PUTTING ONE EVERY, IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY CORNER, EVERY MAJOR INTERSECTION THERE'LL BE ONE TO GET COVERAGE MORE OR LESS.

[00:25:01]

I THINK.

SO IF WE WANT TO WAIT TO MAKE ANY REPORT TO COUNCIL TILL WE GET THAT MATRIX OF ALL THE OTHER CITIES, UM, JUST OFF THE BAT, I THINK, YOU KNOW, MAY WANT TO LOOK AT LOWERING OUR REQUIREMENT.

RICHARDSON DOESN'T HAVE REQUIREMENTS, WHICH I WOULDN'T WANT TO GO WITH NO REQUIREMENT BECAUSE EASIER TO PUT ALL THE TOWERS ON THEIR SIDE.

SO IT STILL COVERS US ON THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN.

AND THAT'S GREAT.

SO, BUT, UM, I SAY WE JUST TABLE THIS ITEM UNTIL WE GET THE CHART BACK AND THEN WE COULD DISCUSS IT A LITTLE FURTHER, BUT UH, CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOU COMING AND JOINING US HERE TODAY.

LIKE I SAID, IT'S A LOT MORE FUN WITHOUT BEING YEP.

ALL RIGHT.

SO W WE WILL TABLE ITEM TWO A INTO OUR NEXT MEETING UNTIL WE GET A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION THERE AND THEN, ALL RIGHT, SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT AGENDA.

ITEM TWO BEATS URBAN STYLE MULTIFAMILY ADDITIONS.

ALL RIGHT, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'VE GOT A FEW SLIDES ON THIS ONE AS WELL, RIGHT? FAIRLY BRIEF PRESENTATION, BUT, UM, JUST KIND OF RUN THROUGH, UM, LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND IN DESIGN STANDARDS AND SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES OF, YOU KNOW, URBAN STYLE VERSUS GARDEN STYLE, KIND OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

REGULATION-WISE AND SOME, UM, THOUGHTS, SUGGESTIONS ON IF THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO KIND OF GO IN A PARTICULAR DIRECTION ON, UM, UM, KIND OF MAKING THE URBAN A LITTLE, UM, EASIER TO KIND OF GET THROUGH THE PROCESS VERSUS, YOU KNOW, REQUIRING A DEVIATION FOR, UM, OFTENTIMES THE SAME, YOU KNOW, TWO OR THREE THINGS.

UM, SO JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND.

THE GDC OF COURSE, PROVIDES ENHANCED DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, UM, INCLUDING FOR MULTIFAMILY REGARDING BUILDING DESIGN AND ARTICULATION, UM, LANDSCAPING AND AN OPEN SPACE AND MINIMUM, UH, AMENITY REQUIREMENTS.

WE ARE SEEING MORE AND MORE MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS, UM, REALLY BEEF UP THEIR AMENITIES, UM, DOG PARKS AND DOG WASHES.

AND, UM, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS ARE BECOMING REALLY KIND OF THE NORM FOR ALL OF THEM.

UM, THE GDC DOES NOT CURRENTLY REQUIRE URBAN STYLE LAYOUTS FOR MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENT, UNLESS IT'S WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN AREA OR ANOTHER BASED, UM, UH, DISTRICT, UM, OR APPROVED, UH, THROUGH A PD PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT, WHICH SEEMS WE'RE SEEING MOST MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS GO THROUGH THAT, THAT PD PROCESS, UM, OUTSIDE OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA, AT LEAST, UM, COMMON MULTIFAMILY DEVIATION REQUESTS THROUGH THE PD PROCESS, UH, BY, BY DEVELOPERS, UM, INCLUDE DENSITY, UM, AND BUILDING HEIGHT, UM, AS WELL AS BUILDING PLACEMENT, THE LAST ONE HERE I ADDED IN, BECAUSE THAT MAY BE SOMETHING WE'D WANT TO LOOK AT IN THE GDC.

IT'S NOT, UM, A REQUIREMENT THAT, UH, NEEDS COUNCIL APPROVAL.

IT ALLOWS STAFF THE ABILITY TO, UM, SORT OF WAVE IT, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S THE INTENT IS AN URBAN STYLE, BUT IT'S A BIT OF AN ODD REQUIREMENT THAT BUILDINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ANGLED A CERTAIN WAY FROM THE PUBLIC STREET, WHICH IS COMPLETELY COUNTER TO WHAT WE NORMALLY SEE, ESPECIALLY WITH URBAN STYLE DEVELOPMENT, KIND OF LINING THE STREET.

UM, SO ANYWAY, I DEFINITELY WANTED TO MENTION THAT ONE, UH, BUT DENSITY IS A VERY COMMON ONE.

THE GDC MAXIMUM DENSITY IS 18 UNITS PER ACRE.

UM, AND THE MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT IS 40 FEET, UM, WHICH USUALLY IS IN LINE WITH ABOUT THREE STORIES.

THREE STORIES IS ABOUT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN GET, UH, WITH 40 FEET.

SO JUST A LITTLE, UH, PARTICULAR DIFFERENCES, UH, BETWEEN GARDEN STYLE AND URBAN STYLE, UM, GARDEN STYLE.

HERE'S A FEW, UM, UH, PHOTOGRAPHIC EXAMPLES THERE, BUT WILL YOU TYPICALLY SEE AS A MORE SPREAD OUT BUILDING LAYOUT? UM, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE LOWER KIND OF LOW TO MID DENSITY.

UM, CERTAINLY LESS THAN 30 UNITS PER ACRE.

OFTENTIMES IT'S KIND OF IN THAT 12 TO 18, MAYBE 20 UNITS PER ACRE RANGE, UM, ABOUT TWO OR THREE STORIES IS THE MOST, YOU'LL SEE IN THE GARDEN STYLE, UM, APARTMENT COMPLEXES, OFTENTIMES THEY HAVE OPEN AIR CORRIDORS.

YOU CAN SEE THOSE, UM, STAIRWELLS ON THESE BOTTOM TWO COMPLEXES, UH, PITCHED ROOFS ARE COMMON, UM, KINDA MORE OF A JUST TRUE RESIDENTIAL STYLE, UM, URBAN STYLE.

MEANWHILE, THEY TYPICALLY HAVE SHORTER SETBACKS FROM THE PUBLIC STREET.

SOMETIMES YOU EVEN SEE THE BUILDING, UH, PLACED DIRECTLY ALONG THE SIDEWALK, YOU'LL HAVE STOOPS AND, UH, WHATNOT, UM, UH, ACCESS DIRECTLY THE, THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK.

UM, THEY ARE HIGHER DENSITY.

UH, TYPICALLY THEY'RE, THEY'RE MORE THAN 30 UNITS PER ACRE, UM, AND AT LEAST THREE IN HEIGHT.

UH, YOU'LL OFTENTIMES SEE, UH, AT LEAST IN GARLAND THREE OR FOUR STORIES IN HEIGHT, UH, USUALLY A BIT MORE MODERN, UH, APPEARANCE AND STYLE, UH, SUCH AS THE FLATTER ROOFS THAT YOU CAN SEE THERE.

UM, OFF STREET PARKING IS USUALLY SHIELDED BY THE BUILDING OR PROVIDED, UH, THROUGH STRUCTURED PARKING

[00:30:01]

OR UNDERGROUND PARKING.

UM, AND IN SOME CASES IT MAY INCLUDE MIXED USE.

UH, THERE MAY BE SOME RETAIL, UH, OR SOME TYPE OF NON-RESIDENTIAL USE ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR.

THESE ARE JUST A FEW RECENT EXAMPLES.

I CAN CERTAINLY PULL, UH, MORE, UH, IF THE COMMITTEE WOULD LIKE, UH, IF YOU WANT THIS ITEM TO COME BACK, BUT JUST A FEW VERY RECENT EXAMPLES, 2123, THIS WAS THE, UM, THE PHASE TWO DOMAIN AT BUNKER HILL.

THAT WAS JUST OVER 30 UNITS PER ACRE.

UH, 44 FEET WAS THE MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT.

THEY PROPOSED THROUGH THAT, UM, PD AND DETAILED PLAN 21 DASH 39.

THAT ZONING CASE WAS THE, UM, MILLENNIUM VILLAGE AND DISTRICT SEVEN AND BELTLINE IN NORTH CARLIN AVENUE.

UM, THAT WAS 44 UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH WAS, UM, UH, ONE OF THE MORE DENSE, UH, PROJECTS WE'VE SEEN COME THROUGH IN RECENT YEARS.

UM, AND THEIR BUILDING HEIGHT WAS 59 FEET.

AND MAX THAT ACCOUNTED FOR FOUR STORIES IN A KIND OF A ROOFTOP LOUNGE AREA.

AND THEN THE Z 2148 CASE THAT WAS THE, UM, RECENT ONE APPROVED ALONG FIREWALL PARKWAY, JUST EAST THE TOWN CENTER WHEEL TOWN CENTER.

THAT WAS, UM, THAT WAS ABOUT 25 UNITS PER ACRE, BUT THEY REQUESTED, UH, UH, UP TO 53 FEET AND MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT.

UH, I BELIEVE THAT WAS TO ACCOMMODATE FOUR STORIES.

UM, SO AGAIN, THE MAXIMUM AND THE GDC AS FAR AS UNITS PER ACRE IS 18.

AND, UM, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT IS 40 FEET.

SO YOU CAN SEE THOSE WERE ALL, UM, DEVIATIONS, VERY COMMON ONES.

UM, AND THIS IS JUST, UH, THE SUBSEQUENT, UH, ELEVATIONS.

THIS IS THE PHASE TWO DOMAIN, UM, UH, ALONG BUNKER HILL, UH, THAT WAS ABOUT THREE STORIES, BUT THEY DID GET A LITTLE MORE HEIGHT AND DENSITY IN THERE.

THIS WAS THE MILLENNIUM VILLAGE.

THESE ARE JUST SAMPLE ELEVATIONS, BUT THIS IS THE MILLENNIUM VILLAGE, WHICH WAS ABOUT 44 UNITS PER ACRE, 59 FEET IN HEIGHT AND ACCOUNTED FOR FOUR STORIES.

OF COURSE, THEY DID A GREAT JOB OF KIND OF STAIR-STEP, STAIR-STEPPING THE DENSITY DOWN.

AS YOU GOT CLOSER TO THE ADJACENT SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY HAD A TWO STORY TOWNHOUSE PRODUCT, IF YOU REMEMBER, ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THEIR LAND.

UM, AND THEN THIS WAS THE RECENT, UM, DEVELOPMENT ON THE EAST SIDE OF FARWELL PARKWAY.

THAT WAS, UM, FOUR STORIES.

THEY NEEDED A LITTLE BIT MORE HEIGHT.

IT WASN'T AN INCREDIBLY DENSE PRODUCT, BUT IT STILL NEEDED, UM, A DEVIATION FROM THE GDC.

THIS IS ABOUT 25 UNITS PER ACRE.

SO, UM, JUST TO KINDA SUM IT UP, IF, IF THIS IS THE DIRECTION THE COMMITTEE, UH, MAY GO WITH URBAN STYLE IS THE DESIRED BASE REQUIREMENT FOR MULTIFAMILY.

UM, UH, STAFF CAN GO BACK AND, UM, INITIATE SOME CHANGES, SUCH AS ADDRESSING DIRECTLY THE DENSITY AND BUILDING HEIGHT, WHICH ARE THE MOST COMMON DEVIATIONS.

SO WE COULD INCREASE IT FROM 18 UNITS PER ACRE, UM, TO A HIGHER NUMBER.

UM, WE CAN CONSIDER INCREASING THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT FROM 40 FEET TO A CERTAIN NUMBER.

UM, THE, UH, MENTIONED SETBACKS HERE.

THIS ACTUALLY HASN'T BEEN A REAL COMMON DEVIATION, BUT, UM, BUT AGAIN, URBAN STYLE DOES TYPICALLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, SHORTER SETBACKS, UH, CLOSER TO THE STREET.

SO THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED.

MAYBE WE, UM, MAKE IT A LITTLE LESS THAN YOUR FRONT 20 FEET, WHICH CURRENTLY IS A 20 FOOT SETBACK.

IT COULD BE BROUGHT IN A LITTLE LESS THAN THAT.

OR YOU COULD EVEN CONSIDER A MAXIMUM SETBACK OR ACQUIRE SURFACE PARKING TO LOCATE BEHIND THE FRONT BUILDING LINE.

SO JUST SOME CONSIDERATIONS.

UM, THE GDC DOES HAVE SOME SPECIFIC URBAN REQUIREMENTS FOR, UM, OF COURSE THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT, UM, AS WELL AS, UM, AND NO ONE HAS ACTUALLY RESOUNDED THESE DISTRICTS, BUT THERE ARE TWO ZONING DISTRICTS AVAILABLE IN THE GDC IT'S CALLED URBAN RESIDENTIAL AND URBAN BUSINESS.

THOSE DO REQUIRE MIXED USE THOUGH.

UM, SO MOST DEVELOPERS JUST OPT TO GO WITH THE BASE MULTIFAMILY STANDARDS AND GO THROUGH THE PD PROCESS AND THEN JUST DEVIATE FROM THESE KIND OF COMMON TWO OR THREE STANDARDS AND, UH, AND JUST KIND OF HANDLE IT THAT WAY.

UM, BUT THAT'S, UM, A FEW THINGS TO CONSIDER.

SO WITH THAT, UM, MR. CHAIRMAN I'LL ALRIGHT.

OSCAR QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE.

OKAY.

I HATE TO TAKE THE SAME STANCE, BUT FOR THIS, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US MAKE SOME OF THESE CHANGES, BUT THE QUESTION IS TO WHAT DEGREE.

SO MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE WOULD BE A LOOK BACK TO THE LAST, MAYBE TWO OR THREE YEARS WITH AVERAGES OF DECISIONS AND JUDGMENTS WE'VE ACTUALLY MADE ON COUNCIL BECAUSE WE'D HAD A LOT OF THESE DEVIATIONS COME TO US AND WE'VE GRANTED MANY OF THEM, I WOULD SAY WE'VE PROBABLY GRANTED MOST OF THEM.

UM, BUT I WOULD KIND OF LIKE TO SEE THAT AVERAGE DOUBT WHAT, WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY COLLECTIVELY SAID YES TO, AND JUST KIND OF SEE WHERE THAT FALLS.

UM, AS FAR AS, UH, ESPECIALLY DENSITY AND HEIGHT, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT MANY ISSUES WITH SETBACKS.

I IMAGINE THAT MAY COME UP MORE, BUT DENSITY AND HEIGHT, WE HAVE DONE QUITE A FEW, UM, EXEMPTIONS ON THAT OR WAIVERS.

[00:35:01]

SO, UM, I WOULD, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HAVE THAT INFORMATION.

I LIKED GOING BACK ON WHAT WE HAVE CONSIDERED AS A COUNCIL AND MADE DECISIONS ON TO JUST WE'VE DONE THIS WITH OTHER THINGS.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD REQUEST IS A LOOK BACK AND AN AVERAGING OUT TO BE ABLE TO COME, COME UP WITH SOME ACTUAL NUMBERS TO RECOMMEND I CONCUR WITH THAT, BUT TO TAKE IT ONE STEP FURTHER, UM, WHAT GOES THE COURSE? I'VE, I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE SEVEN MONTHS NOW, SO, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, OH, SO IN ADDITION TO WHAT WE HAVE APPROVED, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT WE HAVE NOT APPROVED IF WE HAVE INFORMATION ABOUT SURE.

THANK YOU.

UM, WHAT WE HAVE NOT APPROVED, AND IF WE HAVE INFORMATION ABOUT WHY THOSE WEREN'T APPROVED.

OKAY.

AND IF WE'RE ADDING TO YOUR WORK TO DO SEPARATE THE GARDEN STYLE FROM THE URBAN STYLE, I WOULDN'T AVERAGE THOSE TOGETHER BECAUSE THOSE ARE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT THAT WOULD THROW THE AVERAGES OFF.

SO IF WE'RE GOING TO LOOK ONLY URBAN STYLE ONES, WE HAVE A ROOF ONLY GARDENS STYLE WONDER, WONDERFUL.

THEN WE CAN COMPARE WHAT THE RATIOS ARE.

IF THERE'S ANY DEVIATION ON GARDEN STYLE FROM THE 18 AND 40 FEET, 18 INCHES PER ACRE AND 40 FEET HEIGHT.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE EXAMPLES YOU JUST PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED WERE ALL URBAN STYLE ONES THAT ARE RECENTLY, AND THAT FLUCTUATES ALL THE WAY, 59 FEET TO 44 FEET AND HAVING THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE THOSE SEPARATELY FROM THE GARDEN STYLE, IF YOU WILL.

AND ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO ELIMINATE THAT OFFSET BY 30 DEGREE ANGLE FROM THE STREET, THAT IT'S KIND OF A STRANGE ONE THAT ALWAYS SEEMS TO GET TO ASK FOR A WAIVER OR LARGELY IGNORE IT ALSO.

SO, ALL RIGHT, WELL, YOU GAVE MR. GARREN SOME HOMEWORK ON THAT ONE AS WELL.

ABSOLUTELY.

THEN WE'LL WAIT, WE'LL WAIT TO HEAR BACK FROM YOU ON THOSE FOR NEXT MEETING.

AND THEN WE'LL, IF THERE'S ANY MORE QUESTIONS ON THAT ITEM.

NO.

ALL RIGHT.

THEN WE'LL MOVE ON TO TABLE THAT ITEM TO GET A REPORT BACK AND MOVE ON TO ITEM TWO C, WHICH IS MULTI-FAMILY PARKING STANDARDS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BUILDINGS.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PARKING NEXT.

ABSOLUTELY.

AND, UM, I'LL JUST KIND OF BRIEFLY, UH, SHARE WHAT THE CURRENT GDC REQUIREMENT IS AS FAR AS, UH, PARKING FOR MULTI-FAMILY, UH, INCLUDING COVERED PARKING.

SO, UM, THIS IS JUST STRAIGHT FROM THE, UM, THE LAND USE MATRIX FOR MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT.

UM, IT IS THE REQUIREMENT, UH, IS ONE SPACE FOR EFFICIENCY UNITS, UH, 1.5 PARKING SPACES FOR ONE BEDROOMS, UH, AND THEN TWO SPACES FOR ANYTHING THAT'S TWO BEDROOMS AND UP.

SO TWO BEDROOM, THREE BEDROOM, UM, AND THEN AT LEAST 50% OF THAT TOTAL, UH, PARKING COUNT, UH, SHALL BE COVERED.

AND SO THE 50% THE COVERED PARKING REQUIREMENT MAY BE PROVIDED, UM, THROUGH CARPORTS OR, UM, GARAGES.

THOSE, THIS MAY BE TUCKED UNDER GARAGES OR, UM, A STRUCTURED PARKING GARAGE, UM, EITHER WAY, BUT, UH, IT CAN BE PROVIDED THROUGH ANY OF THOSE, UM, TYPES OF COVERED PARKING, UH, WANTED TO MENTION THIS.

AND THIS IS JUST ONLY IF WE'RE MAKING CHANGES.

UM, ANYWAY, SOMETHING WE'D LIKE TO CLEAN UP IF YOUR MEMBER MR. OLC AND I, AND THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE BROUGHT SOME CHANGES, UM, UH, THROUGHOUT THE GDC A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, UM, THERE WAS A, IN A PART OF THE CODE THAT IS NOT REALLY WHERE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS ARE, BUT IT, UH, THERE WAS A LANGUAGE THAT SAYS AT LEAST 50% TO BE COVERED PROVIDED.

UM, HOWEVER THAT EACH UNIT MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE PART COVERED PARKING SPACE, UM, THAT HAS NOT BEEN ADMINISTERED OR ENFORCED.

UM, IT, AND THE INTENT WAS ACTUALLY TO REMOVE IT AND IT ACTUALLY GOT DUPLICATED INTO ANOTHER PART.

SO WE'D LIKE TO CLEAN IT UP.

I DON'T SEE DEVELOPERS.

THEY USUALLY STRUGGLE JUST TO HIT THE 50%.

UM, SO TO ADD ONE SPACE, UM, PER COVERED PARKING, MAYBE PRETTY DIFFICULT.

UM, OFTENTIMES THEY HAVE TO KIND OF SHIFT THINGS AROUND.

I REMEMBER THERE WAS ONE MULTI-FAMILY FAMILY DEVELOPMENT, THEY NEEDED A DEVIATION FROM THE SETBACK JUST TO FIT THE COVERED PARKING.

SO JUST WANT TO MENTION THAT AS A SIDE NOTE, UM, I DIDN'T DO A REAL EXTENSIVE AMOUNT OF, UH, RESEARCH ON OTHER CITIES, BUT JUST KIND OF TOOK A QUICK LOOK.

I WAS ABLE TO TALK TO MY COLLEAGUE WHO'S OVER THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT OF DENTON.

SHE USED TO BE IN FARMER'S BRANCH.

UM, SHE CONFIRMED THAT NEITHER OF THOSE CITIES HAVE A COVERED PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR MULTI MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS, UM, IN THEIR CODE.

UH, HOWEVER, SHE DID NOTE THAT IN FARMER'S BRANCH, THEY HAVE A POLICY IT'S NOT ACTUALLY IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT CODE, BUT THEY HAVE A POLICY WHERE THEY ENCOURAGE, UM, MORE STRUCTURED PARKING FOR MULTI-FAMILY.

THEY REALLY WANT TO SEE THAT URBAN STYLE WITH PARKING GARAGES.

UM, UH, SO THAT'S KIND OF A POLICY.

SO WHEN THEY HAVE A ZONING CASE FOR MULTI-FAMILY A DETAILED PLAN,

[00:40:01]

UH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEY'LL THE STAFF WILL KIND OF MEASURE UP, YOU KNOW, THE POLICY AND KIND OF REPORT THAT IN THE COUNCIL CAN MAKE A DECISION.

UM, AND THEN IN RICHARDSON, UM, EVERY, I BELIEVE IT'S THE SAME REQUIREMENT AS GARLAND.

EVERY APARTMENT PROJECT SHALL PROVIDE ENCLOSED GARAGES OR COVERED CARPORTS WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT, UM, GARAGES AND CARPORTS MAYBE ATTACH OR DETACH.

IT MUST PROVIDE, BE PROVIDED A RATIO OF ONE HALF, UH, GARAGES AND OR CARPORTS PER DWELLING.

SO THE 50%, UM, UH, THE SAME REQUIREMENT AS GARLAND, UM, UH, BELIEVE YOU HAVE A HARD COPY IN FRONT OF YOU.

UM, THIS IS JUST SOME INFORMATION THAT, UH, MR. BARKER AND HIS TEAM AND CODE COMPLIANCE WENT OUT.

I BELIEVE THERE WERE SOME THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS OR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE, UM, APARTMENT COMPLEXES AROUND NAMING FOREST BOULEVARD AND MANSIONS, UH, DRIVE JUST SOUTH OF GEORGE BUSH TURNPIKE.

SO, UM, SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT COVERED PARKING AND WHAT THEY'RE CHARGING AND WHETHER FOLKS ARE, ARE USING IT, OR IF THEY'RE KIND OF PRICED OUT OF IT.

SO THIS WAS, UH, SOME INFORMATION THAT CODE WAS ABLE TO, UM, COMPILE FOR YOUR INFORMATION, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT MR. BARKER IS HERE AND, UM, JED AND I ARE HERE AS WELL.

SO, UM, AND THEN I BELIEVE ACTUALLY PULLED YES.

UM, JUST WITH THOSE SAME CITIES IN CASE THERE WAS ANY QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE BASE REQUIREMENTS ARE.

THIS IS NOT COVERED PARKING, BUT JUST THE, THE BASE, UM, PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR MULTIFAMILY AND THOSE CITIES, UH, RICHARDSON, IT'S AT LEAST TWO SPACES PER APARTMENT, UM, DENTON, UH, THEY KIND OF BREAK IT DOWN A LITTLE SIMILAR TO GARLAND 1.25 FOR ONE BEDROOMS AND EFFICIENCIES.

UM, AND THEN ONE SPACE PER BEDROOM, PLUS GUEST PARKING FOR TWO OR MORE BEDROOM UNITS.

AND THE GUEST PARKING APPEARS TO BE, UM, WHEN THERE'S A DEVELOPMENT WITH 10 UNITS, UH, MORE THAN 10 UNITS, UM, THEN GUEST PARKING SHALL BE 10% OF THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES.

AND THEN THE FARMER'S BRANCH, THEY HAVE A 2.2, FIVE SPACES PER DWELLING UNIT.

SO, UM, SO WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, I BELIEVE THAT'S ALL THE SLIDES I HAVE.

OKAY.

ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE ON THAT LOOK LIKE YOU WANT TO TALK? YEAH.

UM, SO, UM, GOING BACK TO THE FIRST SLIDE IN THE, THE REQUIREMENTS 50 PER, THERE WE GO, THE 50% REQUIREMENT, OR THAT WE REQUIRE AT LEAST 50% TO BE COVERED.

AND YOU SAID THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN ENFORCING THIS AND THAT WE WANTED TO NO, I'M SORRY THAT THIS HAS BEEN ENFORCED.

THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT THAT WENT A STEP FURTHER, AS FAR AS ADDING THAT EACH UNIT MUST HAVE BEEN, MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE COVERED PARKING SPACE, IN ADDITION TO THE 50% GOOD.

BECAUSE I WAS, I WAS HAVING A QUESTION MARK OVER MY HEAD THAT WE HAD NOT ACTUALLY CAUSE WE'VE BEEN ENFORCING THAT.

OKAY.

UM, SO IT'S THE PART THAT GOES BEYOND THAT.

IT SAYS EACH UNIT MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE COVERED PARKING.

GOTCHA.

YES.

MA'AM IT WAS ACCIDENTALLY DUPLICATED WHEN IT WAS ALL RIGHT.

THAT, THAT MAKES BETTER SENSE.

UM, YEAH.

COVERED PARKING SPACES ARE, ARE A BIG DEAL.

AND I HEAR, I DON'T EVER HEAR ANYBODY COMPLAIN OF TOO MANY COVERED PARKING SPACES.

UM, I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT WANT IN ANY WAY TO DING OUR CURRENT REQUIREMENTS.

AND I UNDERSTAND WHY THE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENT IS, UM, AN ANNOYANCE AND NOT PRACTICAL, BUT, UM, OKAY.

WELL, I JUST MAINLY WANTED THAT CLARIFICATION BECAUSE THAT STOPPED ME COLD.

UM, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, ANY QUESTIONS? NO, I APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING TOGETHER THIS CHART BECAUSE IT'S THE INTERESTING SITUATION THAT IS ALONG NAMING FOREST AND ALONG MANSION'S DRIVE HERE THAT THERE SOME OF THESE URBAN STYLE UNITS, THEY OPENED DIRECTLY TO THE STREET WHERE PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY ARE MAYBE ENTITLED TO THAT PARKING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR UNIT.

IF YOU'RE ABLE TO PARK 15 FEET FROM YOUR FRONT DOOR RIGHT ALONG THE STREET, THEN YOU YOU'D LIKE THAT.

BUT THEY ALSO CAN PLAY IN THAT.

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PARKING PROVIDED.

AND I WANTED TO, IT'S GOOD TO SEE THESE NUMBERS HERE.

IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE CERTAINLY MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE PARKING.

I DID THE RATIO, IT LOOKS LIKE EVEN THE ONE WITH THE GARAGE, THE PARKING STRUCTURE CERTAINLY PROVIDES THE MOST PARKING SPACES IS OVER A TWO POINT IT'S ALMOST 2.19 RATIO OF PARKING SPACES, TWO, WHICH HAS VERY, VERY GENEROUS.

THE OTHER, THE OTHER ONE, THE REEVE 1.5 PARKING SPACES FOR UNIT.

YES.

AND ACTUALLY JUST ON THAT IN CASE THERE WERE, AND I HAVE A MEASURED UP AGAINST THE GDC RATIO, BUT THAT, UM, THESE APARTMENTS WERE ALL, UM, UNDER AN ORIGINAL PD FROM 2012.

AND IT WAS, UM, THE DEVELOPER HAD REQUESTED A PARTICULAR PARKING STANDARD OF ONE PARKING SPACE PER BEDROOM.

SO THAT WAS THEIR PARKING REQUIREMENTS.

SO IN CASE THERE'S ANY CONFUSION,

[00:45:01]

IF THAT DOESN'T QUITE MATCH UP WITH THE GDC, THAT THAT WOULD OKAY.

AND THEN THAT EXPLAINS POSSIBLY THAT LOWER NUMBER THERE.

YES, YES, SIR.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE THAT A LOT OF THEM ARE, EVEN IF IT'S COVERED, IS THERE A, A COVERED PARKING THERE'S NO CHARGE FOR COVER TO IT.

SOME OF THEM, ALTHOUGH SOME DO CHARGE AS WELL.

SO IT'S, IT'S KIND OF ALL ACROSS THE BOARD, BUT HERE, IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE THERE IS PLENTY OF PARKING PROVIDED HERE.

I ONLY SEE AT THE VERY BOTTOM COLUMN, ONE BUILDING THAT GETS COMPLAINTS THAT I IMAGINE JUST LOOKING AT THE STREET VIEW, THOSE ARE BUILDINGS NEAR THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY.

AND THAT MIGHT BE WHERE THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH NEARBY PARKING.

THEY MIGHT HAVE TO WALK A LITTLE BIT TO GET TO THEIR BUILDING.

SO I'M HAPPY TO SEE THIS.

AND I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR ANY SUGGESTED CHANGES TO OUR STANDARDS THIS TIME COMMITTEE MEMBERS IS THAT YOU AGREE WITH THAT? JUST KEEP OUR REGULATIONS.

I AGREE.

I REALLY LIKE SEEING THESE NUMBERS HERE BECAUSE I, I, I SEE HOW THE CARS PARKED UP AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S NO PARKING AT ALL WITH THE NUMBER OF CARS PARKED ON A UP AND DOWN MANSIONS.

UM, SO I MEAN, YEAH, I MEAN, I LIKE SEEING THE NUMBERS.

I THINK THAT, UM, THE ONLY THING I WOULD LOOK AT IN THIS IS IN LOOKING AT COMPARING TO HOW WE ARE TO OTHER CITIES IS, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, A REQUIREMENT OF TWO PLUS BEDROOMS REQUIRES TWO PARKING SPACES OUT, MAYBE.

UM, AND THERE WAS ONE OF THEM YOU SHOWED FOR ONE OF THE CITIES.

IT WAS A NUMBER OF BEDROOMS. PLUS ONE I THINK IS WHAT IT SAID.

UM, UH, I WOULD FEEL AT A MINIMUM, WE SHOULD HAVE REQUIRE ONE PARKING SPACE PER BEDROOM, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH OUR, THE WAY OURS CURRENTLY AS A, SO IF THERE WAS A THREE BEDROOM, IT WOULD ONLY REQUIRE TWO SPACES.

I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST ONE PER BEDROOM.

AND THEN, UM, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING SOMETHING THAT REQUIRED A, UH, A PERCENTAGE FOR GUEST PARKING AS WELL.

I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT WOULD BE PHRASED OR HOW THAT WOULD COMPARE TO OTHER PLACES, BUT YEAH, FARMER'S BRANCH.

UM, YOU HAD SOMETHING UP THERE THAT SOMETHING ABOUT GUEST PARKING.

THAT'S WHAT GOT ME THINKING ABOUT THAT.

AND I'M SORRY, IT'S DENTON, NOT THOMAS, RIGHT? YEAH.

DENTON HAS THERE, IT IS 10%, RIGHT? 10%, UM, MORE 10 UNITS, WHICH MOST ARE GOING TO HAVE MORE THAN 10 UNITS.

OF COURSE.

SO ARE THOSE, DO YOU KNOW IF THOSE SPACES ARE DESIGNATED GUEST ONLINE? I THINK IT WOULD BE HARD TO DESIGNATE JUST GUEST PARKING.

YOU'D HAVE PEOPLE PARKING EVERYWHERE.

RIGHT.

YOU WOULDN'T KNOW IF THEY WERE A GUEST OR A RESIDENT NECESSARILY.

I WOULD THINK SO.

I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.

I HAD IT TO THE NUMBER OF TOTAL NUMBER OF, I THINK JUST ADDING IT TO THE TOTAL NUMBER.

YEAH.

DO WE KNOW IN THESE URBAN STYLE APARTMENTS, HOW MANY, THREE BEDROOMS THEY HAVE AS A PERCENTAGE ROUGHLY? UM, IT'S USUALLY A VERY LOW AMOUNT.

I DON'T HAVE THE DATA IN FRONT OF ME.

IT'S USUALLY VERY LOW, LIKE MAYBE, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, 10% OR MORE.

EXACTLY.

YEAH.

USUALLY A SINGLE DIGIT NUMBER.

I MEAN, IN THE STYLIST URBAN STYLE, I WOULD AGREE.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S THAT MANY, THREE BEDROOMS. I THINK THAT'S MORE OF THE GARDEN STYLE APARTMENT, UM, THAT HAVE THOSE LARGER, LARGER TYPE OF A APARTMENT BUILT APARTMENT WITH THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS INCREASING.

AND WE HAVE GENERALLY BEEN SEEING FEWER THREE BEDROOMS. THEY'LL STILL BE, THERE'LL BE SOME USUALLY, BUT, UM, IT'S USUALLY A PRETTY LOW NUMBER COMPARED TO THE ONE IN ONES AND TWOS.

YEAH.

AYE, AYE.

AYE, AYE.

THIS TIME I STILL DON'T THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE TO IT UNLESS COMMITTEE SAID ON A FIT FOR THREE BEDROOM, BUT THAT'S LATE MORRIS.

UM, I WOULD, WELL, I'D LIKE TO PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT AGAINST THE THOUGHT OF MAKING A REQUIREMENT FOR A PARKING SPACE FOR EACH BEDROOM BECAUSE WE, WE GO THROUGH THE TWO BEDROOMS, TWO SPACES, BUT ONCE YOU MOVE INTO THREE BEDROOMS, LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT IS IT'S MORE IN THE GARDEN STYLE APARTMENTS AND THAT'S MORE FAMILIES.

I DON'T SEE.

I DON'T SEE THAT.

WE NEED TO SAY THAT THIRD BEDROOMS, WHICH A LOT OF TIMES OUR CHILDREN REQUIRE A PARKING SPACE.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS COUNCIL HAS TACKLED AND I, I, I THINK THAT CHAIR WAS, UM, PART OF THAT CONVERSATION IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, IS THAT WE HAVE, UM, IN A LOT OF CASES WITH, UH, WITH RETAILERS, WE HAVE REQUIRED WAY TOO MANY PARKING SPACES, WHICH HAS RESULTED IN ACRES AND ACRES OF UNUSED SPACES.

AND WE DON'T, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

SO IT'S A BALANCING ACT.

UM, SO I WOULD NOT,

[00:50:01]

I WOULD NOT BE IN FAVOR OF SAYING A PARKING SPACE PER BEDROOM.

I LIKE EXCEPT FOR UP TO TWO, TWO BEDROOMS, TWO SPACES.

SO I WOULDN'T FAVOR CHANGING THAT.

UM, WILL, ARE, WERE YOU HOPING TO GET FROM THIS COMMITTEE A RECOMMENDATION TO FINALLY STRIKE THE, UH, THE THING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE STRICKEN LAST TIME? RIGHT, RIGHT.

UM, THAT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

IT DOESN'T RIGHT.

AND WE CAN PACKAGE IT WITH ANOTHER GDC AMENDMENT.

IF, IF WE END UP CHANGING SOME OF THAT URBAN STYLE, GARDEN STYLE, DENSITY, HEIGHT, UM, WE COULD KIND OF INCORPORATE IT AND WITH THOSE CHANGES, UM, CERTAINLY WE WORK WITH MR. GREENLAND ON THAT, BUT, UM, THAT WE WE'D BE HAPPY TO HAVE THAT RUMEN I KIND OF HEARD THAT.

SO THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY THING THAT I'M SEEING THAT WE WOULD WANT TO SPECIFICALLY LOOK AT RECOMMENDING A CHANGE AND IF IT NEEDS TO BE PACKAGED ELSEWHERE, HOWEVER, IT NEEDS TO BE PRESENTED OUT.

BUT THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION.

OKAY.

I GUESS IF I MAY, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT I SEE HERE, I GUESS WHAT WE HAVE ON PAPER IS THIS WORKS IN THEORY.

RIGHT.

BUT I WISH WE HAD SOME PICTURES OF WHAT THE REALITY IS.

UM, BECAUSE THE REALITY IS, AND THIS IS FOR THESE ONES THAT YOU POINTED OUT HERE, THESE ARE ALL OFF OF GEORGE BUSH AND MANSIONS.

AND THE, LIKE I SAID, THIS LOOKS BEAUTIFUL IN THEORY, RIGHT.

OH, THERE'S ENOUGH PARKING, BUT IN REALITY, THERE'S NOT.

SO, UM, UH, I CAN'T SAY THAT I KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTION IS FOR ME.

THE SOLUTION IS PROVIDING MORE PARKING.

UM, BUT I WOULD SAY IF YOU DRIVE, DRIVE DOWN MANSIONS, ANYTIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE HOME AND THERE'S DEFINITELY MORE CARS THAN PARKING SPACES.

UM, AND I'M NOT SURE BY, I HAVEN'T COUNTED THEM.

UM, BUT I WOULD, I WOULD SAY JUST EVEN JUST DRIVING BY, IT LOOKS LIKE PARKING IS A HUGE ISSUE.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ALL LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, YES, THESE NUMBERS WORK.

THAT'S GREAT.

THERE'S, YOU KNOW, ONE AND A HALF PARKING SPACES PER UNIT, THERE'S 2.19 PARKING SPACES PER UNIT.

THAT'S PERFECT.

BUT THE REALITY IS IT'S NOT BECAUSE THERE IS A PROBLEM.

SO, UM, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT SOLUTION IS, BUT, UM, WHAT I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE IS AS WE DO EXPAND AND GROW AND WE HAVE MORE MULTI-FAMILY IS THIS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE? YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT NOW ON THE EAST SIDE OF FIRE TOWN CENTER, WE HAVE, UM, WHAT, FOUR DIFFERENT AREAS RIGHT THERE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE BUILT UP WITH APARTMENTS.

WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, ON THE BORDER OF SAXY WHERE DOMAIN IS, WE'RE ON WHAT PHASE THREE THERE.

NOW WE HAVE ALL THESE CONCENTRATION OF, OF APARTMENTS GOING IN AND IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT'S GOING TO BE HAPPENING FURTHER SOUTH TOO, AS WE GROW AND APARTMENTS ARE REHABILITATED.

AND I DON'T, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS BEFORE IT BECOMES AN ISSUE ALL OVER THE CITY, YOU KNOW, AND I, I DON'T THINK THAT LOOKING AT IT AND SAYING IN THEORY, IT WORKS AND THEN LOOKING UP IN REALITY AND SEEING IT DOESN'T WORK.

AND I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS THE ANSWER.

SO I THINK WE, WE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS.

I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY EASILY, THE ANSWER IS REQUIRED MORE PARKING, THE, UH, PARKING SPACES ALONG NAMING AND ALONG MANSIONS THAT ARE USED ARE PUBLIC PARKING SPACES.

RIGHT.

AND THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THESE NUMBERS HERE ARE THEY? I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

NOPE.

THAT WOULD ONLY HELP OUT THE PARKING ISSUES.

I MEAN, SEEING THESE NUMBERS OF STRICTLY THE NUMBERS THAT ARE ON SITE.

YEP.

ANY SURFACE STREET, PUBLIC PARKING WE ADD TO IT, BUT ONLY IMPROVE THE SITUATION.

I THINK A LOT OF IT, LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IS THAT YOU CAN DRIVE UP THERE AND YOU SEE A LOT OF CARS IS THAT IF I'M ABLE TO WALK OUT MY FRONT DOOR AND PARK RIGHT THERE, THEN THAT'S THE SPACE THAT I WANT TO USE RIGHT ALONG THERE RATHER THAN DRIVE AROUND THE GATE AND ALL THE WAY AROUND AND PARK IN THE BACK.

MY UNIT DIDN'T HAVE TO WALK THERE SOMEWHERE.

SO WE'RE REQUIRING THE NUMBER OF SPACE ON HERE FOR THE PARKING ON SITE, WHICH I THINK TO ME, THIS LOOKS EFFICIENT HERE, THE FLOW, THE EASE, YOU KNOW, NOT EVEN ALL THE SPACES ARE LEASED OUT.

ARE YOU FEELING IF THERE'S A HIGH DEMAND FOR COVERED PARKING, THERE'S STILL PLENTY OF THAT SUPPLY TOO.

IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE PROVIDING SUFFICIENT PARKING, JUST IT'S LIKE DOWNTOWN PARKING, RIGHT? IT'S JUST AMOUNT OF IMMEDIATE PARKING AND PROXIMITY TO WHERE YOU WANT TO BE AT THAT TIME AND NOT HAVE TO WALK 500 FEET OR, OR SO, WELL, ACTUALLY THE CARS WILL, I MEAN, THE APARTMENTS ARE ON MANSION OR NOWHERE THERE HUNDREDS OF YARDS FROM GEORGE BUSH.

BUT IF YOU GO BY, GO BY 10:00 AM ON A SATURDAY, RIGHT.

THERE'LL BE CARS PARKED ALMOST ALL THE WAY TO GEORGE BUSH FURTHER AWAY THAN ANY OF THEIR PARKING ONSITE.

YOU KNOW? SO I DON'T THINK THE ISSUE IS JUST PEOPLE WANTING TO PARK RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S CARS PARKED.

I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, ALL UP AND DOWN, MANSION'S DEFINITELY FURTHER AWAY THAN THEIR ONSITE PARKING AND I DON'T INSIDE.

DON'T AGREE THAT THAT'S

[00:55:01]

THE CONCERN.

I WONDER IF WE COULD HAVE A SPOT CHECK, NOT, NOT CITYWIDE, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A MONSTROUS ENDEAVOR, BUT, UM, A, A SPOT-CHECK PARKING STUDY OF JUST A FEW, UM, DEVELOPMENTS MULTI-FAMILY TOO SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID A PARKING STUDY DOWNTOWN.

IN FACT, WE'VE DONE.

I DUNNO, HOW MANY PARKING STUDIES DOWNTOWN WHERE CERTAIN DAYS AND NIGHTS AT CERTAIN TIMES, THEY, THEY COUNTED VEHICLES AND COUNTED SPACES AND SAID, HERE'S WHAT IT IS.

HERE'S WHAT IT IS.

AND, UH, THIS WAS IN DOWNTOWN.

IT WAS ALWAYS, OH, THERE'S NO PARKING.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING AND STUDY AFTER STUDY AFTER STUDY, HE SAID, OH YEAH, WE DO.

WE HAVE PLENTY OF PARKING.

SO I WOULD BE INTERESTED.

I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE A, UM, THAT WOULD BE A MORE ENGINEERING APPROACH TO SAYING, IS THAT WHAT IS THE PROBLEM IS THE PROBLEM THAT THEY ARE PARKING ON THE STREET BECAUSE IT'S CLOSER IS THE PROBLEM THAT THE SITE DOES NOT PROVIDE ENOUGH PARKING.

UM, IS IT THAT ANY KIND OF NEIGHBORING, UM, BUSINESS OR HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IS ACTUALLY USING OTHER PARKING AND TAKING IT UP AT A, AT A NEARBY, UM, DEVELOPMENT? I DON'T KNOW.

UM, AND THOSE AREN'T IN MY DISTRICT WHERE I PASS THEM BY, I DON'T, I AM NOT CURRENTLY IN MY DISTRICT AMONG MY MULTI-FAMILIES HAVING ANYWHERE NEAR A CAPACITY PARKING ISSUE.

IT'S JUST NOT HAPPENING.

SO COULD WE DO A SMALL SCALE STUDY? HOW HARD WOULD THAT BE? NO, I'M SURE RICK'S PEOPLE WOULD LOVE TO DO.

HE LOVES THESE JOBS.

I THINK SINCE WE, UM, THESE THREE COMPLEXES IN PARTICULAR KIND OF FOCUS RIGHT NOW, THAT WOULD BE AN EASY SPOT CHECK, BUT AT LEAST THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETIME GO OUT, COUNT THE NUMBER OF CARS PARKED ON THE STREET AT DIFFERENT TIMES, JUST TO GET A FEEL FOR THAT.

THE OTHER THING WE MIGHT THINK ABOUT IS ACTUALLY TALKING TO MANAGEMENT AT THE COMPLEXES AND MAYBE EVEN HAVE THEM COME TO THE COMMITTEE MEETING.

AND BECAUSE THEY, THEY PROBABLY KNOW BETTER.

WE CAN, WE CAN COUNT THAT HOW MANY, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHY? UM, AND MANAGEMENT MAY HAVE SOME SENSE FOR WHY THEIR TENANTS ARE PARKING THERE VERSUS ONSITE.

AND IF THEY THINK THEIR SITES UNDER PARKED OR OVER PARKED, I, I DON'T KNOW.

THEY MAY HAVE SOME INSIGHTS THAT MIGHT BE USEFUL FOR US JUST OFFERING THAT