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[00:00:01]

UM, SO TODAY IS,

[Civil Service Commission on March 8, 2022.]

UM, TUESDAY, MARCH THE EIGHTH, 2022.

AND THIS IS THE MEETING OF THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF GARLAND.

AND NOW WE WILL CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

UM, WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS TO CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA.

I MOTION THAT WE ADOPT THE AGENDA.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

I'M SORRY.

DID IT, DID I SECOND THAT OR NO? I'LL SECOND.

OKAY.

SO ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, AYE.

AND SO THE AGENDA IS APPROVED.

SO ITEM NUMBER THREE IS TO CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE COMMISSION MEETING ON JANUARY THE 18TH, 2022.

I MOVE THAT.

WE APPROVE THE MINUTES.

DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND? ALL RIGHT.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

AYE.

OKAY.

THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED FROM THE COMMISSION MEETING ON JANUARY THE 18TH 2022.

ITEM NUMBER FOUR IS THE REPORT OF THE DIRECTOR.

JUST WANTED TO BRIEFLY MENTION, AND WE'LL BE GOING OVER THIS SHORTLY, BUT FOR THE FIRE PROMOTIONAL EXAMS THAT WE HAD, WE HAD TWO QUESTIONS THAT WERE PILL FOR DRIVER AND FIVE FOR THE LIEUTENANT.

UM, WE ACTUALLY HAD ONE WITHDRAWAL ON QUESTION NUMBER 46 AND 95 ALEXIS SMITH, UM, WITHDREW HER APPEAL.

I'M SORRY, ACTUALLY ON QUESTION 46, UM, 46 ONLY.

SHE'S STILL HERE FOR 95.

UH, AND THEN JUST FOR THE COMMISSIONS REFERENCE, WE JUST PULLED AN EXCERPT FROM THE LOCAL RULES REGARDING THIS PROCESS, UH, AND THE ITEMS TO BE CONSIDERED, BUT JUST WANTED TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF, UH, OF THE WITHDRAWAL THAT WE HAD AND THE PROMOTIONAL EXAM, UM, APPEALS, YOU SAID, I'M SORRY, YOU SAID THERE WERE FIVE, THERE WERE TWO ON THE DRIVER APPEAL, TWO QUESTIONS AND THEN FIVE ON THE LIEUTENANTS.

UM, BUT ONE QUESTION NUMBER 46 HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.

THE APPEAL HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, DIRECTOR.

UM, SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE FIRST OR TO ITEM NUMBER FIVE, WHICH IS THE FIRE DRIVER PROMOTIONAL APPEAL FROM THE EXAM CONDUCTED ON FEBRUARY THE 10TH, 2022.

UM, WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER APPEAL THE APPEAL FROM ANDREW.

UM, I'M SORRY.

I'M PROBABLY GONNA MISPRONOUNCE THAT, UM, SIDE SEAN SIDE, SEAN.

OKAY.

REGARDING QUESTIONS NUMBER 17 AND NUMBER 50.

HELLO, GOOD MORNING.

HOW ARE Y'ALL DOING? DOING WELL.

THANK YOU.

SO THESE ARE THE BOOKS RIGHT HERE THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE STUDY.

AND CAN YOU JUST STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? UH, LIKE TO APPEAL QUESTION 17 AND 50 ACTUALLY NUMBER 50, I'M GOING, I WOULD LIKE TO WITHDRAW MY APPEAL FROM IT.

UH, WHEN I FOUND IN THERE PRETTY CLEARLY STATED, UM, ON NUMBER 17, IT'S THE QUESTION STATES, UH, WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS REGARDING STABILIZING AN AERIAL APPARATUS ON UNEVEN TERRAIN IS FALSE.

UH, I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT THERE, THE KEY TO ANSWER IS IT HAS STATEMENTS IN THERE THAT ARE TRUE ON IT AND THEN CONTRADICTED BY THE BOOK ITSELF IN THERE, WHICH I HAVE YET.

THERE'S THIS THING WORK RIGHT HERE.

YOU'LL HAVE A COPY OF THE BOOK THERE.

DO WE HAVE THAT? YES.

OKAY.

IF IT DOES WORK, DOES THAT SHOW UP HERE? THAT DOES SHOW UP.

OKAY.

SO I'VE HIGHLIGHTED HERE.

THE ANSWER IS ACTUALLY THE GREEN ONE HERE IS ANSWER CHOICE A, UM, THAT ONE, IT SAYS IT IS ALSO THE EASIEST WAY.

UM, EASIEST WAY TO STABILIZE IT.

PRETTY CLEARLY IN EACH ONE OF THESE THINGS HERE, IT SAYS TO CHECK THE OPERATOR MANUAL FOR SPECIFIC VEHICLE INFORMATION.

AND IT SAYS THAT MULTIPLE TIMES INSIDE THIS BOOK, IT SAYS IT MULTIPLE TIMES INSIDE THIS ACTUAL PARAGRAPH,

[00:05:02]

UM, ON ANSWER CHOICE, NUMBER C, IT SAYS THE MOST APPARATUS CAN CORRECT LATERAL UNEVENNESS ON GRADES UP TO FIVE DEGREES.

AND THIS BOOK RIGHT HERE, IT SAYS IT CAN CORRECT UP TO 5%, APPROXIMATELY THREE DEGREES, NOT FIVE DEGREES.

THE FIVE FEET OVER 100 FEET OF DISTANCE IS CORRECT ON THE NEXT QUESTION.

THE KEY TO ANSWER IT SAYS WHEN STABILIZING A LATERAL UNEVEN APPARATUS, FOLLOWING MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH IT SAYS, BUT TYPICALLY, BUT TYPICALLY IT ON THE LOW SIDE OF THE APPARATUS ARE LOWERED FIRST UNTIL THEY WERE RAISED THE APPARATUS LEVEL.

THEN THE HIGHEST SIDE OF THE, THE STABILIZERS ARE RAISED JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE FIRM CONTACT WITH THE HARD SURFACE.

SO IN HERE IN THE BOOK, IT SAYS MOST MANUFACTURERS OF THE AERIAL APPARATUS DEVICE RECOMMEND LOWERING STABILIZERS ON THE UPHILL SIDE OF THE VEHICLE FIRST AND PARENTHESES IMMEDIATELY IN THE SAME SENTENCE.

IT SAYS, ALTHOUGH SOME MAY SPECIFY THE OP THE OPPOSITE THERE, I, I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS A FALSE ANSWER STATED IN THERE, UM, THAT THEY SAW.

THERE'S NOT REALLY A GOOD ANSWER CHOICE TO STATE THE MOST FALSE ONE IN THERE WOULD BE THE ANSWER CHOICE C WITH FIVE DEGREES INSTEAD OF THREE, APPROXIMATELY THREE DEGREES.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? YES.

I'D LIKE TO ASK AGAIN.

UH, WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IN THAT QUESTION? WAS IT THE THREE VERSUS THE FIVE DEGREES? I SAID THAT THERE'S NOT A TRUE FALSE ANSWER IN THERE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A MISSTATEMENT.

AND THERE, I GUESS THE ANSWER CHOICE C WOULD BE MORE FALSE BECAUSE OF THAT, BUT IT ALSO HAS PARTS OF TRUTH IN THERE WHERE IT SAYS, UH, THE SLOPE RAISES FIVE FEET FOR EVERY A HUNDRED FOOT.

I'VE GOT THE BOOK, BUT DOWN ON, SEE THE QUESTION, DO WE HAVE THAT QUESTION HERE IN OUR STUFF? CAN YOU I'M LOOKING AND YOUR POINT ON THIS AGAIN WAS WHAT, THAT, THERE'S NOT A GOOD, FALSE ANSWER CHOICE IN THERE.

THE KEY TO ANSWERED THERE IS COMPLETELY NEGATED BY THE, BY THE FACT THAT ON THIS, ON, IN THE BOOK HERE, IT, IT STATES IN HERE MULTIPLE TIMES TO, UH, REFER TO THE MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATIONS ON IT, BUT THEN IT ALSO CONTRADICTS IMMEDIATELY IN THE SAME SENTENCE.

WHAT IT'S SAYING THERE, TELL ME YOUR CONTRADICTION AGAIN.

OKAY.

SO IT SAYS THAT INSIDE THE BOOK HERE, IT SAYS THAT LAURA AND STABILIZERS ON THE UPHILL SIDE OF THE VEHICLE FIRST, AND IN THE QUESTION HERE IS A IT'S, UH, LET'S SEE STAPLERS ON THE LOW SIDE OF THE APPARATUS OR LOWERED.

SO THAT IS AN OPPOSITE.

IT IS AN OPPOSITE.

YES.

SO THAT'S FALSE, THEN IT IS AN OPPOSITE, BUT IT SAYS ALSO IN HERE THAT THE OPPOSITE MAY ALSO BE, MAY ALSO BE SPECIFIED.

BUT THE BEGINNING OF THAT ANSWER CHOICE, IT SAYS WHEN STABILIZING LOTTERY IN THAT PRICE, FOLLOWING MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH ALSO IT SAYS HERE, MOST MANUFACTURERS, RAILROAD EMBRACE RECOMMEND THAT'S A RECOMMENDATION BY THE MANUFACTURER, UH, RECOMMENDATION BY THE BOOK, NOT THE MANUFACTURERS, THE MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDATIONS, OVERRIDES, ANYTHING THAT IS SAID IN THIS BOOK.

IT SAYS MOST MANUFACTURERS OF AERIAL DEVICES RECOMMEND.

SO THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS.

AND, UH, ALTHOUGH THE OPPOSITE MAY BE RECOMMENDED, ALTHOUGH SOME MAY SPECIFY THE OPPOSITE AND THEN IT SAYS THESE STABILIZERS SHOULD BE LOWERED.

AND THIS ONE SAYS OUR LORD FIRST THEN RAISED TO THE RAPPER AT HIS LEVEL.

AND THIS

[00:10:01]

IS MAKES UNTIL MAKES GROUND CONTACT.

SO IT SEEMS TO ME FALLS.

I MEAN, FROM MY PERCEPTION I'M READING IT.

AND I, I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE FALSE.

I'M JUST, JUST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.

YES.

AND THEN ALSO, LIKE I SAID, I DON'T ANSWER SURELY I SEE THERE, IT HAS EITHER A TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR OR JUST A MISS COMPLETELY WRONG ANSWER THERE ALSO BECAUSE OF THE FIVE DEGREES, YOU MEAN? WELL, THE BOOK THEN SAYS IT'S UP TO 5% AND THEN IT SAYS APPROXIMATELY A PPA THREE, THREE.

SO APPROXIMATE IS PLUS OR MINUS TWO.

I MEAN, APPROXIMATELY IS UP TO, WOULD INCLUDE TO ME IN BUILDING TESTS.

UH, I WOULD THINK I WOULD FOLLOW AND B BE TRUE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SAY EXACT.

UM, WE WERE THINKING MAYBE THE FIVE DEGREES SHOULD BE PERCENT IN TERMS OF AN AIR.

IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE THINKING TO? I DON'T WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.

OKAY.

I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.

UM, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS QUESTION? PUT THIS UNDER HERE.

WE CAN SEE MY, MY NAME'S GARRETT LAMB.

UM, MY ARGUMENT IS THAT IT'S A CORRECT QUESTION AND, UH, EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THE ANSWER CHOICES IS IN THE BOOK.

UM, SO FOR A IT'S CORRECTLY IN THERE, THE EASIEST TO CORRECT IS LATERAL UNEVENNESS.

SO THAT'S TRUE.

THAT WOULDN'T BE A CORRECT ANSWER, UH, FOR B ON PAGE SIX 60.

UM, IT SAYS THE, UH, OPERATE, OPERATE THE ARROW DEVICE DIRECTLY OVER THE FRONT OR REAR OF THE APPARATUS.

YES, SIR.

WE LOOK AT 6 68 SO I CAN GET THERE.

YOU'RE SAYING IT'S WHERE ON THE PAID SIX 60, THIS FIRST FULL PARAGRAPH IN THERE.

THE SECOND SENTENCE.

SO WHAT STARTS WHEN SETTING, UH, THE SECOND SENTENCE THERE OPERATE THE AERIAL DEVICE, WHICH IS RIGHT THERE, OPERATE THE STABILIZERS IN PLACE, OPERATE THE AIR TO VICE DIRECTLY OVER THE FRONT OF THE REAR OF THE APPARATUS.

IT SAYS THAT IN THERE, AND THAT'S IN REFERENCE TO WHAT RESPOND TO ABC A B THAT'S B, THAT'S JUST PROVEN THAT IT'S IN THERE.

AND IT'S TRUE.

OKAY.

UM, FOR LETTER C, UM, WHERE MY FINGER IS HERE, A SLOPE OF A 5%, WHICH IS A FIVE OR FOOT OR APPROXIMATELY C TERRAIN, HEIGHT OF FIVE FOOT FOR EVERY RUN OF 100 FOOT OF DISTANCE FROM 5, 6, 6, 5 8, THEN YES, SIR.

AND THAT'S THAT SAME PAGE THAT WAS ARGUED PREVIOUSLY? CORRECT.

OKAY.

UM, AND THEN RIGHT UNDER, THAT IS THE, WHAT THE KEY DANCER IS AND WHICH I THINK IS CORRECT.

UM, IT STATES PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT'S IN THE BOOK, ACCORDING TO MANUFACTURERS, MOST MANUFACTURERS, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS THE AIR DEVICE SHOULD BE LOWERED ON THE UPHILL SIDE OF THE VEHICLE, WHICH ON THE TEST QUESTION, IT'S THE STABLE IS ON THE LOW SIDE OF THE APPARATUS ARE LOADED FIRST, WHICH IS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE.

SO, SO IN THIS PARTICULAR RESPONSE, D YOU'RE AGREEING WITH EVERYTHING THAT IT SAYS, EXCEPT FOR POSSIBLY THE, UM, THE FIVE FEET VERSUS DEGREES FOR C YOU'RE SUPPORTING D BUT HAVE YOU ADDRESSED THE, A PART YET? IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME, YOU'RE APPROACHING THIS RESPONSE FROM SAYING THAT THESE QUESTIONS ALL ARE CORRECT, AND THAT'S WHY THIS ONE'S NOT CORRECT.

DID YOU ADDRESS THE AID RESPONSE? DO YOU SPOKE TO NUMBER TO QUESTION, ANSWER A YES, HE DID.

OKAY.

AROUND THE BOOK IS THAT THE ANSWER IS A PAGE 6 58, UM, WHICH IS I HAVE MY FINGER ON THERE, STABILIZING ON THE TERRAIN, THE LAST SENTENCE OF THE FIRST OF THAT PARAGRAPH THERE OF THE TWO, THE EASIEST TO CORRECT IS LATERAL UNEVENNESS.

WHERE IS THAT ON THAT PAGE AGAIN, I'M LOOKING, UM, IT'S,

[00:15:01]

UH, UNDER THE STABILIZING AND UNEVEN TERRAIN, UH, THE LAST SENTENCE OF THE FIRST THAT PARAGRAPH, RIGHT UNDERNEATH THAT, OF THE TWO OF THESE, THE EASIEST TO CORRECT TRAIN WHAT IT SAYS EASIEST OR, UH, UNEVEN LATERAL SIDE TO SIDE RATHER THAN THE LONGITUDE IS THE EASIEST TO STABILIZE.

OKAY.

UM, SO I, I THINK THE QUESTION IS CORRECT AS WRITTEN AND IT SHOULDN'T BE THROWN OUT.

OKAY.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? UH, I'M LOOKING HERE FOR THE CITY OF GARLAND, TEXAS FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICE OFFICERS, CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION RULES AND REGULATIONS REGARDING THE TESTS.

OKAY.

THERE'S A SECTION THAT TALKS ABOUT THE TEST AND THE QUESTIONS AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY, UM, HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC.

AND IT SAYS GENERAL, I BELIEVE I'M TRYING TO FIND THAT SECTION, CORRECT? YES.

NUMBER, ITEM, NUMBER FOUR.

IS THAT WHAT YOU SPOKE WITH? RIGHT.

THERE'S AN EXCERPT FROM IT.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY AGAIN? UM, LET ME PULL IT UP.

I'M TRYING TO FIND IT IN MY SECTION, BUT I KNOW IT'S THERE CAUSE I READ IT.

IT IS ALL RIGHT.

SO I'M LOOKING AT NUMBER C TWO.

THIS IS EVIDENCE THAT THERE EXISTS ANOTHER ANSWER, WHICH IS ACCURATE IN CERTAIN LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT IS NOT ACCURATE GENERALLY.

AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER PART THAT GOES ON AS A CONSIDERATION FOR THIS.

THE BIGGEST CONTENTION IS THE, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE FIVE DEGREES VERSUS, UH, SHOULD BE PERCENT.

UH, IS THAT WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND TO YES.

FROM THE PREVIOUS, UM, SPEAKER? YEAH.

OKAY.

I THINK I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.

OKAY.

UM, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS QUESTION? OKAY.

IF YOU WOULD, IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CAN STEP UP TO THE MIC.

THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

MY NAME'S MELODY GANO.

UM, IF IT'S ABOUT THE DEGREES ONLY, THEN I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY, BUT IF IT'S ABOUT IF QUESTION, UH, ANSWER CHOICE D IS FALSE.

I DO HAVE FURTHER INFORMATION IN THE BOOK THAT PROVES THAT.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

CAN YOU STATE YOUR NAME AGAIN, PLEASE? MELODY? YOU KNOW, MELODY, YOU KNOW, G U N N O E.

THANK YOU.

SO ON A D HERE, IF YOU FLIP TO PAGE 6 59 AND YOU LOOK UNDER FIGURE 18.29, IT'S ALMOST WORD FOR WORD OPPOSITE OF D IT SAYS FOLLOW MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT STABILIZERS ON THE HIGH SIDE.

AND THEN HERE IT SAYS, UH, FOLLOW MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT STABILIZERS ON THE LOW SIDE.

SO YOUR CONTENTION IS THAT A MAJORITY OF THE QUESTION IS, IS FALSE.

ONE PART IS JUST SIMPLY NOT QUITE ACCURATE, ACCORDING TO THE BOOK THAT RIGHT.

YES, SIR.

THE D IS A VERY FALSE ANSWER.

I MEAN, FROM THAT POINT ON, BUT WHAT PART WAS REFERENCE WAS ALSO THEN INACCURATE BASED ON THE, THE DEGREES THAT ARE VERSUS PERCENT.

AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS TOTALLY FALSE, WHICH PROVES THAT, BUT THAT PART IS JUST AMBIGUOUS.

OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

THANK YOU.

UM, SURE.

[00:20:08]

YOUR NAME, SIR.

STATE YOUR NAME.

MY NAME IS TYLER CHEESY.

TYLER CHEESY.

YES, SIR.

AND SO WHENEVER WE'RE LOOKING AT THE QUESTION, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A ANSWER CHOICE, C BEING, UH, FALSE OR INCORRECT AS WELL, UM, IT STATES UP THERE THAT IT SAYS, UH, ON GRADES UP TO FIVE DEGREES OR A SLOPE THAT RISES FIVE FEET FOR EVERY A HUNDRED FEET OF DISTANCE.

UM, A SLOPE OF FIVE FEET FOR EVERY A HUNDRED FEET OF DISTANCE IS WORD FOR WORD FROM THE BOOK.

UH, AND YOU STATED EARLIER YOURSELF THAT A DEGREES IS APPROXIMATE IN THE BOOK AND IT COULD BE PLUS OR TWO, THREE.

AND, UH, WHENEVER WE LOOK AT THIS QUESTION, AS FAR AS, UM, WHO GOT IT RIGHT, WHO GOT IT WRONG, WE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE ACTUAL NUMBERS AS FAR AS GIVEN TO US, BUT EVERYONE IN THE TOP 10 OF THIS TEST, MINUS THE PERSON PROTESTING GOT THIS QUESTION, CORRECT.

STATISTICALLY, IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT ANY TESTS GIVEN AT A SCHOOL OR ANYWHERE ELSE, THAT'S HOW YOU JUDGE A GOOD QUESTION OR A BAD QUESTION.

HOW THE TOP DID.

OH, OKAY.

THAT'S ALL I GOT, SIR.

I APPRECIATE THAT INPUT.

UM, DID YOU DO THE MATH ON THAT? THE FIVE OVER A HUNDRED VERSUS X OVER 360 TO FIND OUT THE EXACT, I HAVE DEGREES.

I DID NOT DO THE MATH.

I'M JUST GOING OFF EXACTLY WHAT THE BOOK SAYS.

AND IT SAYS, OKAY.

CAUSE SOMEONE OR A SLOPE THAT ARISES SOMEWHERE WHO IS MATHEMATICAL CLIENT AND WHO WANTS TO DO WELL ON THAT QUESTION COULD DO THAT AND COME UP WITH THE ANSWER.

I MEAN, THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT.

SO I JUST WAS WONDERING IF YOU HAD COME UP WITH THAT.

OKAY.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER.

SO I PROPOSE THAT THE TWO OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION IS, UM, WE'RE IN FAVOR OF SUSTAINING THE APPEAL OR, UM, WE'RE IN FAVOR OF UPHOLDING THE EXAM QUESTION AND ANSWER AS ORIGINALLY SCORED.

THOSE ARE TWO OPTIONS.

I MEAN, WE HAVE OTHERS, BUT MY INCLINATION IS TO UPHOLD THE, THE QUESTION AND THE ANSWER.

I, I, I MOVED THAT, UM, THAT WE UPHOLD THE EXAM QUESTION AND ANSWER WE'LL SUPPORT THAT WE WILL SECOND THAT.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO, UM, WE HAVE A SECOND AND ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF UPHOLDING THE EXAM QUESTION AND ANSWER SAY, AYE.

AYE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

SO, UM, WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER SIX, WHICH IS THE FIRE LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONAL APPEALS FROM EXAM CONDUCTED ON FEBRUARY THE 10TH, 2022.

WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER APPEALS, I'M SORRY, AMERICAN OR DEER? BOTH 17 AND 50 QUESTION 17 AND 50.

BUT DID HE WITHDRAW 50? YES.

OKAY.

50 WAS WITHDRAWN? YES.

OKAY.

SO NUMBER ONE IS, UH, DALTON HARRIS REGARDING QUESTION NUMBER SIX.

THANK YOU.

UH, MY NAME IS DALTON HARRIS.

I'LL BE CONGESTING QUESTION NUMBER SIX FROM OUR LIEUTENANTS EXAMINATION IN REGARDS TO, UH, THE EVOLVING FIREGROUND IT'S ON PAGE 44.

UH, I BELIEVE YOU HAVE THE, THE SOURCE LIST AND IT'S ALL GONNA COME OUT OF THAT ONE PARAGRAPH RIGHT THERE.

SO THERE'LL BE NO FLIPPING AROUND OR ANYTHING.

YES, IT SHOULD.

IT SHOULD BE IN THE PACKET.

[00:25:25]

THE PAGE.

SO ON PAGE 44, UH, THE QUESTION, UH, THAT WE WERE GIVEN IS SAYS WHEN POSSIBLE, WHAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE THE BEST METHOD TO APPLY WATER INTO THE ATTIC SPACE, I'LL SHOW TO YOU BASED OFF OF TWO CIVIL SERVICE RULES, LR 1 43.

SO YOUR FIRST NAME AGAIN, DALTON HARRIS.

COULD YOU TALK A LITTLE SLOWER? SO I'LL SHOW TO YOU.

WHY? UH, BASED OFF OF TWO OF THE CIVIL SERVICE RULES FOR THE CITY LR 1 43, 0 3 4 B THREE, AND THEN SUBSECTION B AND SEE WHAT THIS QUESTION IS INVALID BASED OFF THAT QUESTION, UM, AND THE ANSWER CHOICES WERE APPLYING WATER THROUGH THE EAVES FROM THE EXTERIOR, APPLYING WATER THROUGH VERTICAL VENTILATION, OPENING, PULLING WATER THROUGH THE INTERIOR ATTIC OPENING, OR THE SCUTTLE, AND THEN APPLYING WATER THROUGH HOLES ON THE TOP FLOOR ANSWER CHOICE A IS THE KEY TO ANSWER I'LL SHOW TO YOU WHY THAT IS THE INCORRECT ANSWER.

THE KEY ANSWER IS INCORRECT PER THE SOURCE.

THE KEY TO ANSWER IS WHERE WE SHOULD START BASED OFF OF THE FIRST SENTENCE IN THE PARAGRAPH, FLOWING WATER, NOT WHERE IT IS BEST.

THAT CHANGES THE QUESTION.

THE AUTHOR TOOK LIBERTIES WITH THE QUESTION AND SAID, WHAT IS BEST RATHER THAN WHAT IS FIRST? IF HE HAD SAID, WHAT IS FIRST? THIS IS AN ACCURATE, AND WHICH IS WHERE WE SHOULD START.

THIS IS A PERFECT QUESTION.

HOWEVER, HE SAYS BEST WHICH CAUSES THERE TO BE MULTIPLE CORRECT ANSWERS, WHICH CAUSES THIS TO BE AN INVALID QUESTION.

THE QUESTION SPECIFICALLY ASKS WHAT'S HIS BEST ON PAGE 44 IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH.

IT SAYS, HOWEVER, IF IT IS POSSIBLE, HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE THE BEST METHOD TO APPLY WATER INTO THE ATTIC SPACE AND TO APPLY WATER.

OH, WAIT, WAIT, I GOT TO READ THAT WITH YOU AT THE SAME TIME.

YOU, SO HOWEVER IT'S POSSIBLE HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE THE BEST METHOD TO APPLY WATER INTO THE ATTIC SPACE.

OKAY.

AND CONTINUE, AND THEN WATER ON THE ACTUAL MATERIALS THAT ARE BURNING.

IS THAT RIGHT? YES, SIR.

THAT IS CORRECT.

OKAY.

THIS IS AN INDIVIDUAL STANDALONE SENTENCE.

IT'S THE AUTHOR BELIEVES THAT THIS TRACKS BACK TO SENTENCES AND TALKS ABOUT GOING THROUGH THE EAVES.

I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS AN INDIVIDUAL SENTENCE AND THE WORD, HOWEVER, DIRECTLY REFUTES THE BEGINNING OF THE PARAGRAPH, WHICH DISCUSSES THE USE OF A STREAM SPRAYED THROUGH THE EAVES AND STATES THAT IF IT IS POSSIBLE, IT'S BEEN PROVEN TO BE THE BEST METHOD TO APPLY WATER INTO THE ATTIC SPACE.

THIS IS INDEED THE STANDALONE SENTENCE WORD FOR WORD, THOUGH.

IT SAYS BEST METHOD RIGHT THERE TO APPLY.

IT'S ALMOST WORD FOR WORD THOUGH, IF IT IS THE BEST METHOD.

SO I BELIEVE THAT IS A STANDALONE SENTENCE.

THIS IS NOT THE AUTHOR BELIEVES THAT THIS STUDY, THE SENTENCE GOES BACK TO, I THINK THIS IS A STANDALONE SENTENCE AND IT SAYS IT'S ITS OWN BEST TO APPLY WATER DIRECTLY TO THE MATERIALS BURNING.

SO RATHER THAN APPLYING IT THROUGH THE EAVES, IT IS THE BEST TO APPLY IT DIRECTLY ONTO MATERIALS BURNING IN THE ATTIC SAYS BEST AFTER THAT TO APPLY WATER INTO THE ATTIC SPACE WORD FOR WORD STILL SAYS WORD FOR WORD.

I MEAN, IT DOESN'T REALLY IN MY MIND DOESN'T CHANCE.

TELL ME AGAIN SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE THINKING THAT.

SO IF WE END UP IN THE FIRST SECTION THERE, IT SAYS, HOWEVER, THE QUESTION SPECIFICALLY AS, UH, IF HOWEVER, IF IT'S POSSIBLE, IT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE THE BEST METHOD TO APPLY WATER INTO THE ATTIC SPACE AND TO APPLY WATER ON THE ACTUAL MATERIALS THAT ARE BURNING.

THAT'S THE SENTENCE THAT THE AUTHOR TOOK THE QUESTION FROM, I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY IN A GRANT CENTER THAT'S SEEMS PRETTY GOOD.

HOWEVER, THAT IT'S NOT DIRECTLY REFERENCED.

IT IS WHAT THE AUTHOR TESTED US ON THERE.

HE SAYS IT IS WELL, WHAT IS IT? THAT'S THE THAT'S YOU BELIEVE? I GUESS THAT IT'S TWO SENTENCES BEFORE I BELIEVE IT IS IN RELATION TO THE END OF THE SENTENCE, APPLYING WATER DIRECTLY ONTO MATERIALS THAT ARE BURNING.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT STATEMENT ALTOGETHER.

THEN APPLYING IT THROUGH THE EAVES.

WHEN YOU APPLY IT THROUGH THE EAVES, YOU INDIRECTLY SPRAY WATER OFF OF THE ROOF BEAM AND THEN ON TO THE MATERIALS THAT ARE BURNING.

WHEN YOU APPLY IT DIRECTLY TO THE MATERIALS BURNING, YOU GO ANY OF THE OTHER THREE ANSWER CHOICES AND YOU APPLY WATER TO THE DIRECT MATERIALS THAT ARE BURNING RATHER THAN INDIRECTLY FROM THE ATTIC SPACE.

THAT'S MY CONTENTION ON THIS QUESTION.

THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE TO BE INVALID.

WHICH OF THE ANSWERS WOULD YOU HAVE PICKED AND OTHERWISE ALL THREE, A, B, C, AND D ARE CORRECT BECAUSE YOU CAN APPLY WATER DIRECTLY TO THE MATERIALS THAT ARE BURNING FROM THE THREE ANSWER CHOICES BELOW ANSWER CHOICE, A CAUSES YOU TO INDIRECTLY SPRAY WATER ONTO THE STREAM.

I A, B, C, AND D ARE CORRECT, BUT IT SAYS BEST.

AND THAT'S IN CONTINUOUS OF THE SENTENCE.

UM, I'M TRYING TO SEE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, UM, AND I FEEL LIKE IN ANSWERING, YOU'RE ANSWERING THIS QUESTION

[00:30:01]

THAT A CERTAINLY IS, IS BEST AT NOW, RIGHT NOW, UNLESS I STILL DON'T SEE YOU CONVINCING ME OTHERWISE AT THIS POINT POINT, I HAVE A QUESTION.

SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT, UH, THE OTHER QUESTIONS, THE OTHER ANSWERS ARE ALSO CORRECT.

SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT, UH, WE SHOULD ALLOW ANY OF THE ANSWERS OR WE JUST QUESTION IS NOT A VALID QUESTION.

JUST THROW IT OUT ALL TOGETHER, BASED OFF THE FACT THAT BC AND D ARE ALL CORRECT.

I MEAN, I GUESS IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE B, C AND D YOU COULD, I MEAN, THAT'S, I GUESS AT Y'ALL'S LIBERTY, YOU CAN DO, HOWEVER YOU WANT ANSWER CHOICE A IS THE FIRST PLACE.

IT SAYS IT IN THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE OF THE PARAGRAPH.

IT IS THE FIRST PLACE.

IT IS NOT THE BEST PLACE.

THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS QUESTION.

BUT IF, BUT THE BOOK AND TEXT ON PAGE 44 SAYS RIGHT AFTER THE LINE WITH FIGURE THREE DASH 16, IT SAYS BEST.

DOESN'T SAY FIRST YOU TALKING ABOUT WHERE IT SAYS, HOWEVER, IF POSSIBLE, OKAY.

I BELIEVE THAT TO BE A STANDALONE SENTENCE.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT TO BE A REFERENCE SENTENCE WHEN IT SAYS, HOWEVER IT IS, IF IT'S POSSIBLE, IT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE THE BEST TO APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE MATERIALS BURNING THAT'S ITS OWN SENSE TO ME AS A TEST BUILDER.

IF I FOUND THAT SENTENCE IN THERE AND PUT IT IN THE TEST, I WOULD HAVE TO GO WITH THAT, BE AN ACCURATE, AND I BUILT MANY TESTS.

I THINK THAT THAT THAT'S, AS A STANDALONE SENTENCE, SUPPORTS THE QUESTION.

I'M JUST GIVING YOU MY VIEWPOINT FOR NOW.

AND I'M SAYING THAT TO GIVE YOU ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE MY MIND.

I DON'T KNOW.

LET'S LOOK, LET'S DIVE INTO IT.

SO, UH, IF WE CONTINUE ON A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, THERE'S ALSO OTHER ANSWER CHOICES THAT WERE GIVEN BASED OFF OF JUST BELOW THAT SENTENCE AS WELL.

SO IT SAYS, UM, IN ADDITION, THIS TEST MAKER DID NOT INCLUDE ANYTHING ABOUT THE THERMAL IMAGING CAMERA, WHICH IS TOTALLY TWO SENTENCES BELOW WHERE YOU'RE ALREADY LOOKING RIGHT THERE.

THAT SAYS THAT IS THE BEST OPTION.

AS LONG AS WATER CAN BE FLOW DIRECTLY INTO THE AREAS THAT ARE IMMEDIATELY BURNING.

SO THERE'S ANOTHER BEST OPTION.

NO, AND I'M READING, IT SAYS IT'S THE BEST PLACE, NOT THE BEST METHOD.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT WORD.

OKAY.

DID YOU SEE ANYWHERE IN THE TEST WHERE IT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE CONDITIONS OF THE EAVES ON THE QUESTION ITSELF? NO.

I WAS JUST READING THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION AS IT WAS.

SO, AS IT STANDS, THE TEST QUESTION, IT SAYS IT'S POSSIBLE.

WHAT'S POSSIBLE IS ALSO EXTREMELY VAGUE WHERE IT'S POSSIBLE.

WE HAVE TO MOVE TO THE INSIDE WHERE IT'S NOT AVAILABLE TO THROW FLOW WATER THROUGH THE EAVES.

IT SAYS THAT, AND THEN IT PROVES IT TO BE, IT SAYS, UM, THE QUESTION SAYS WHEN NOT WHERE, RIGHT? SO WHEN IT'S POSSIBLE AND IF YOU GO DOWN, IT SAYS WHERE WATER CANNOT BE FLOATED TO EVES.

YOU MUST MOVE TO THE INTERIOR.

SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN AND WHERE I GUESS IS WHERE YOU AND I ARE ON THE SAME PAGE THERE.

WELL, AND AGAIN, THE QUESTION ALMOST IS WORD FOR WORD FROM THE BOOK IN TERMS OF THIS, I BELIEVE IT IS.

I BELIEVE THAT'S A STANDALONE SENTENCE AGAIN, AND I DON'T THINK YOU AND I ARE ON THE SAME PAGE ON THAT.

AND THAT'S FINE.

I MEAN, A LOT OF US WEREN'T, THERE WERE 25 OF US TOOK THE TEST.

FIVE OF US, MISSED IT.

20 OF US.

GOT IT.

CORRECT.

20 OF THEM.

GOT IT.

CORRECT.

OBVIOUSLY I DIDN'T GET IT CORRECT.

OR I WOULDN'T BE HERE.

SHOULD WE HEAR FROM SOME OTHER, DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. HARRIS? THANK YOU.

I THINK YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB IN POINTING OUT FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON QUESTION NUMBER SIX? UH, GOOD MORNING.

GOOD MORNING.

MY NAME IS ALEXIS SMITH AND I, SORRY, I'VE NEVER USED ONE OF THESE BEFORE ALEXIS SMITH.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

SO I'LL HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH MR. HARRIS.

IS THAT A BLEED THAT YOU CAN'T PICK OUT SINGLE INDIVIDUAL SENTENCES? WE'RE HERE TO LEARN THE TEXTBOOK IN ITS ENTIRETY.

SO WE CAN'T PICK AND CHOOSE AS SOON AS THIS AS WE WANT.

IT'S KIND OF A KNOWLEDGE BASED EXAM.

AND THEN ALSO WITH THE STATISTICS OF 20 PEOPLE, GOT IT RIGHT.

AND THOUGHT PEOPLE GOT IT WRONG.

I ALSO THINK THAT THAT IS STATISTICS.

CAN'T PROVE THAT A QUESTION IS BAD OR GOOD.

I THINK THAT SHOULD BE NOT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

SO ON THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THAT SECOND PAGE, IF THE ATTIC SPACE EVES CAN BE ACCESSED WITH THE HOST DRANK FROM THE EXTERIOR, THAT IS WHERE WE SHOULD START FILLING WATER.

WE'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT THE SECOND SENTENCE STATES, HOW YOU CAN ACCESS THE EASE WITH PIKE POLES OR OTHER MATERIALS.

THE THIRD SENTENCE STATES THAT SOME OLDER HOMES, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE EASE.

[00:35:01]

SO THE SENTENCE AFTER THAT IS KIND OF THE PAYOFF FOR THE, THE BEGINNING OF THE PARAGRAPH IS THAT WHEN IT'S POSSIBLE, IT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE THE BEST METHOD TO APPLY WATER INTO THE ATTIC SPACE THAT IT'S THAT MR. HARRIS IS ALLUDING TO IS PROVEN IN THE PREVIOUS THREE SENTENCES THAT ATTACKING THROUGH THE USE IS THE BEST METHOD TO ATTACK FIRE AND ATTIC.

UM, AND WITH THE OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION, UM, THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR, UH, YOUR PACKET, THERE IS THAT THE ANSWER IS CLEARLY CORRECT THE KEY TO ANSWER, AND THERE'S NO OTHER CLEARLY EQUAL APPROVED ANSWER.

AND THERE IS NO TOPOGRAPHICAL COPYING OR ERROR THAT SIGNIFICANTLY ALTERS MEANING OF THE QUESTION OR THE ANSWERS.

AND THERE'S ALSO A PICTURE THERE TO REITERATE WHAT THE PARAGRAPH STATED BEFORE.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

ANY QUESTIONS FOR HER? OKAY.

THANK YOU.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS QUESTION? QUESTION NUMBER SIX.

ARE WE ALLOWED TO PASS NOTES? I THINK, I THINK WE CAN.

YEAH.

ALL RIGHT.

SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION? OUR OPTIONS TO HAVE THE OPTIONS TO FOR CONSIDERATION IS TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF SUSTAINING THE APPEAL OR, UH, IN FAVOR OF UPHOLDING THE EXAM QUESTION AND ANSWER, I SAY UPHOLD THE EXAM QUESTION.

IT APPEARS I SECOND, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

AYE.

ALL RIGHT.

SO, UH, WE WILL UPHOLD THE EXAM QUESTION AND ANSWER ON QUESTION NUMBER SIX.

UM, QUESTION NUMBER 26, BRIAN HARPSTER.

OKAY.

SO ITEM NUMBER OR QUESTION NUMBER 26 IS WITHDRAWN VERY WELL.

NUMBER ALEX'S SMITH REGARDING QUESTIONS NUMBER 46 AND NUMBER 95.

HELLO AGAIN? HELLO, ALEXIS SMITH.

I HAVE WITHDRAWN QUESTION 46, 2 CHALLENGE QUESTION 95.

ALL RIGHT.

DO WE HAVE THAT IN OUR BOOK HERE SOMEWHERE TOO? 40, 40, 60 WITH TRUE.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

NUMBER FIVE.

I GOT IT.

I'M GETTING BETTER.

AND ALSO HAVE COPIES.

IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS CLOSER.

WE HAVE THOSE.

THANK YOU.

WELL, GOOD MORNING AGAIN.

I'M ALEXIS SMITH AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

I'M HERE FOR AGENDA ITEM 6 83, QUESTION NUMBER 95.

AND IN THE PACKET, THE OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION, THE SECOND BULLET POINT STATES THERE EXISTS.

OTHER ANSWERS PROVIDED TO THE QUESTION WHICH ARE CLEARLY EQUAL TO THE APPROVED ANSWER.

WHAT DOES IT SAY THEN IN YOUR, LET ME SEE, I'LL GET IT FOR YOU ON PAGE 1 77 ON YOUR PACKET OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION.

THE SECOND POINT THERE EXISTS.

OTHER ANSWERS PROVIDED TO THE QUESTION WHICH ARE CLEARLY EQUAL TO THE APPROVED ANSWER.

I DON'T KNOW FOR CONSIDERATION.

I DON'T SEE THAT I HAVE IT ON THERE.

THE BIG SHE'S JUST REFERENCING YOUR OPTIONS THAT WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IN LOCAL RULES.

DR.

WICKMAN WILL JUST SAY WHAT YOU SHOULD BE CONSIDERING FOR THE QUESTION.

SO THIS IS MY REASON FOR CHALLENGING.

THIS IS THAT THERE ISN'T CLEARLY EQUAL, UH, ANSWER TO THE APPROVED KEYED ANSWER.

AND I WILL SHOW YOU NOW FOR QUESTION NUMBER 95, ANSWER CHOICE, A VENTILATION LIMITED AND ANSWER CHOICE B VENTILATION CONTROLLED ARE SYNONYMOUS OR CLEARLY EQUAL ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF PAGE 1 77, WHICH I'M POINTING TO NOW VENTILATION CONTROLLED IS FAR WITH LIMITED VENTILATION IN WHICH THE HEAT RELEASE RATE OR GROWTH IS LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF OXYGEN AVAILABLE TO THE FIRE.

THE DEFINITION FOR VENTILATION LIMITED FIRE WITH LIMITED VENTILATION IN WHICH THE HEAT RELEASE RATE OR GROWTH IS LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF OXYGEN AVAILABLE TO THE FIRE SYNONYMOUS WORD FOR WORD DEFINITIONS, TO EACH OTHER.

IT'S FROM THE SAME TEXT.

AND ALSO AT THE BOTTOM OF VENTILATION LIMITED, IT IS ALSO KNOWN AS VENTILATION CONTROLLED.

PART OF THE DEFINITIONS VENTILATION LIMITED IS ALSO KNOWN AS VENTILATION CONTROLLED, ALSO KNOWN AS INTERCHANGEABLE, SYNONYMOUS EQUAL.

THIS CLEARLY SHOWS THE ANSWER CHOICES A AND B ARE EQUAL TO

[00:40:01]

ONE ANOTHER, WHICH SATISFIES OUR SECOND BULLET POINT FOR OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION THERE EXISTS.

OTHER ANSWERS PROVIDED TO THE QUESTION WHICH ARE CLEARLY EQUAL TO THE APPROVED ANSWER.

SO ANSWER A AND B ARE INTERCHANGEABLE SYNONYMOUS, ALSO KNOWN AS EQUAL TO EACH OTHER.

SO THEY'RE BOTH CORRECT.

ALL RIGHT.

SO, SO YOUR FIRST POINT WAS WHAT THE DEFINITION OF VENTILATION LIMITED AND WHERE DID YOU COME? WHERE DOES THAT SAY THAT? IN THIS, ON THE HIGHLIGHTED ON THE RIGHT SIDE FROM THE SAME TEXTBOOK VENTILATION LIMITED.

AND I ALSO HAVE A SHEET THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT, RIGHT.

I AM.

THE SOURCE MATERIALS ARE, ARE RIGHT NEXT TO YOU VENTILATION.

YEAH.

SO WE WOULD HAVE TO OKAY.

BUT LIKE ALSO ON THE SCREEN, BUT THE BOOKS ARE THERE.

IF YOU WANT TO READ IT CLOSER.

YEAH.

I'D LIKE TO SEE IT OUT OF THE BOOK.

I HAVE THE BOOK, ALSO THE BOOKS, THEY HAVE COPIES OF THE NEXT.

I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

AND THIS IS PAGE 41, ALEXIS 41 AND THE SAME TEXT.

SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE A LOT OF PAPERS UP HERE.

OKAY.

A LOT OF PAPERS AND IPADS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

IT'S HARD TO MANAGE WHAT WE WANT TO DO RIGHT BY YOU.

THAT'S TRUE.

I DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THAT.

NO, NO PROBLEM.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

I'M ON THAT PAGE AGAIN.

SO IT SAYS, UH, UH, CONVERSELY MEN IN RELATION LIMITED FIRES HAVE ACCESS TO ALL.

GIVE ME YOUR, UM, MAGIC IN BEHIND THIS, UH, LOGIC IS THAT THIS TEXTBOOK, WE'RE HERE TO LEARN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT'S WITHIN IT.

I'M NOT JUST ROTE MEMORIZATION.

GO GIVE ME YOUR, MY ARGUMENT.

OH, THAT'S ON THE OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION BULLET 0.2.

THERE EXISTS.

OTHER ANSWERS PROVIDED TO THE QUESTION WHICH ARE CLEARLY EQUAL TO THE APPROVED ANSWER.

I DON'T SEE THAT WE'RE STILL UNDER STAGES OF FIRE DEVELOPMENT.

IS THAT WHERE IT SAYS WHERE THE BULLET IS? IT'S YOUR PACKET OF THIS PACKET FOR THIS REASONS.

YEAH, BUT I'M LOOKING FOR THE BOOK.

I'M LOOKING FOR THE BOOK WHERE YOU SAID YOU GOT THE INFORMATION OUT OF, OH, I DO.

YES.

ON THE FAR RIGHT SIDE PAGE, IT SAYS FIRE WITH LIMITED VENTILATION.

I HAVE THAT, BUT WHAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT AGAIN? AND UNLESS YOU CONTROL IS THE SAME DEFINITION.

ALEXIS, CAN YOU SPEAK INTO THE MIC PLEASE? THE DEFINITION FOR VENTILATION CONTROL DOES THE SAME DEFINITION FOR VENTILATION LIMITED AND ALSO VENTILATION LIMITED IS ALSO KNOWN AS VENTILATION CONTROLLED.

SO THEY ARE SYNONYMOUS AND INTERCHANGEABLE WITH EACH OTHER.

AND SO WHAT DOES THE ANSWER TO DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE FOR 95, A N B? THE QUESTION HONESTLY IS IRRELEVANT.

AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE ANSWER CHOICES OF VENTILATION CONTROL AND VENTILATION LIMITED, THOSE ARE THE SAME PER THE TEXT.

IN THE TEXT ON PAGE 41.

DO YOU HAVE THE TEXT? UH, THE TEXTBOOK.

I CAN GRAB IT OUT OF MY BACKPACK.

OKAY.

YOU LOOK ON PAGE 41, BEGINNING OF THE PARAGRAPH COMPARTMENT, FIRE DEVELOPMENT.

DO YOU SEE THAT ON PAGE 41? I'M SORRY.

WHERE ARE YOU? PAGE 41.

FIRST COMPLETE PARAGRAPH INDENTATION COMPARTMENT, COMPARTMENT, FIRE DEVELOPMENT.

YOU SEE THAT SAYS LIMITED OR VENTILATION LIMITED.

THE BOOK TALKS ABOUT IT IN THAT SENSE, IN THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, WHERE YOU SAID THAT THEY ARE SYNONYMOUS, IT IS A REFERENCE IT'S REFERENCED TO ANOTHER BOOK THAT USES A DIFFERENT OR TWO TERMINOLOGIES FOR IT.

IT DOESN'T SAY THAT IN THE BOOK THOUGH, THE BOOK REFERENCES ONLY THE LIMITED, UM, I'M

[00:45:01]

NOT TRACKING IT'S IN THE SAME TEXT.

THAT VENTILATION LIMITED ON PAGE 41 ITS DEFINITION, BUT, BUT ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, THOSE ARE NOTES.

AND IT'S A REFERENCE NOTE AND IT SAYS GUIDE FOR FIRE AND EXPLOSION INVESTIGATIONS, COPYRIGHT 2011 NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION.

IT'S SAYING IT REFERENCES THAT CONCEPT FROM ANOTHER TEXT.

IT DOESN'T SAY THAT THE BOOK DOESN'T SAY THAT THEY ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH IT.

IT JUST SAYS THAT THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS FROM ANOTHER BOOK.

THE EXACT WORDING IS ON THE TEXT ITSELF ON THAT PARAGRAPH COMPARTMENT.

FIRE DEVELOPMENT DEPENDS UPON WHETHER THE FIRE IS FUEL LIMITED OR VENTILATION LIMITED AND FUEL LIMITED IS IT'S NOT ONE OF THE ANSWERS.

EVERY THE VENTILATION CONTROL.

THIS ALSO REFERENCED FROM NFP.

NOW, 21, ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT THE DEFINITION THAT THE TEXT PROVIDES THAT WE, WE LEARN AND STUDY, WE READ EVERY WORD THAT'S ON THESE PAGES.

EVEN THE SMALL IT'S SCRUBBING UNDERNEATH PICTURES.

LOOK AT PARAGRAPH THREE, ALL COMPARTMENT FIRES.

SEE THAT BEGIN.

YOU SEE THAT PARAGRAPH? YES.

SAYS AGAIN, VENTILATION LIMITED.

THEY'RE ALL IT'S IN THE TEXT OF THIS BOOK THAT YOU'RE STUDYING.

THE BOOK SAYS VENTILATION LIMITED.

YOU PICKED OUT A REFERENCE THAT GAVE IT SOME SUPPORT, BUT FROM A DIFFERENT TEXT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE BOOK AGREED WITH IT OR EVEN SUPPORTED.

IT JUST SAYS THAT'S WHAT THEY LOOKED AT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.

WELL, FROM, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IS THAT THOSE ARE DEFINITIONS HIGHLIGHTED ON THE RIGHT, THAT ARE WORD FOR WORD REFERENCE FROM NFP 9 21, BOTH OF THEM.

AND VENTILATION LIMITED IS ALSO KNOWN AS VENTILATION CONTROLLED.

I DON'T THINK THAT THE INDIVIDUAL WHO MADE THIS BOOK WOULD PUT THAT IN THERE.

IF THEY DIDN'T FEEL THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT.

WELL, I THINK SOMETIMES WHEN AUTHORS WRITE AND THEY REFERENCED ANOTHER TEXT, I THINK THEY FEEL THEY ARE, OR THEY'RE INCUMBENT UPON THEM TO HAVE TO SAY WORD FOR WORD, WHAT THE OTHER TEXT SAYS IN ORDER TO REFERENCE THE STUDENT OR THE PROFESSIONAL TO LOOK AT THAT.

AND I THINK THAT'S ALL THEY DID THERE.

IT'S MY OPINION SO FAR.

OKAY.

ARE THE DEFINITIONS IN THE BACK IN THE GLOSSARY THEN ALATION CONTROLLED VENTILATION, LIMITED FIRE WITH LIMITED VENTILATION IN WHICH THE HEAT RELEASE RATE OR GROWTH IS LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF OXYGEN AVAILABLE TO THE FIRE FIRE WITH LIMITED VENTILATION IN WHICH THE HEAT RELEASE RATE OR GROWTH IS LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF OXYGEN AVAILABLE TO THE FIRE AS PER THE GLOSSARY DEFINITION.

SO YOU'RE NOW ON PAGE 3 8600 BLOSSOMS IN THE GLOSSARY, JUST TO FURTHER REITERATE THE FACT THAT IN THE BOOK AND MULTIPLE SPOTS, THEY ARE WORD FOR WORD DEFINITIONS.

AND HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO, WHENEVER YOU HAVE TWO IDENTICAL DEFINITIONS, CHOOSE ONE OVER THE OTHER.

IF THEY'RE THE SAME AND EQUAL, AND PART OF THE OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION THERE EXISTS.

OTHER ANSWERS PROVIDED TO THE QUESTION WHICH ARE CLEARLY EQUAL, AND I BELIEVE THIS IS CLEARLY EQUAL THE DEFINITION STATES.

SO COMMISSIONER, I SUGGEST THAT WE MAYBE HEAR FROM OTHER PEOPLE AND SEE WHAT THERE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS QUESTION? QUESTION NUMBER 95 COME FORWARD.

UH, GOOD, GOOD MORNING.

OKAY.

AND I AM FOR IN CONTENTION, UH, UPHOLD THE QUESTION AND KEEP IT AS IS, UM, YOU HAVE COPIES OF THE QUESTIONS.

YES.

LOOK AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

UH, I MEAN, IF WE LOOK ON PAGE 1 77, WHICH IS WHERE IT'S REFERENCED FROM, IF YOU READ IT VERBATIM, UH, IT'S THE FIRST SENTENCE OR FIRST TWO SENTENCES LETTER FOR LETTER WORD FOR WORD PUNCTUATION.

IT IS ALL, I MEAN, VERBATIM THROUGH THE BOOK, WHICH PARAGRAPH IT'S THE ACTUAL QUESTION IS, UM, PAGE 1 77.

OKAY.

ONE SECOND.

IT'S VERBATIM THAT THE ANSWER KEY, IT IS A VENTILATION LIMITED.

AND THEN WHERE DO YOU SEE IT? ON 1 77 SIMULATION CAN RESULT IN SMOKE.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? UNDER PULSATIONS? UH, W NO.

I'M SAYING THAT.

WHERE ARE YOU FINDING IT? IN THE BOOK ON PAGE 1 77.

THE WORD, THE QUESTION IS WHERE THE QUESTION IS DERIVED FROM.

DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT IS? DO YOU HAVE IT THEN PARAGRAPH?

[00:50:01]

YES, SIR.

THAT'S THE PARAGRAPH NOW? I'LL SHOW YOU WHEN THE BOOK.

NO, I HAVE THE BOOK.

OKAY.

UM, IT'S JUST VERBATIM, BUT I DON'T SEE THE IT IN THE BOOK.

THAT'S NOT THE BOOK.

IS IT UNDER PULSATIONS? NO.

NO, NO.

THE, SO WHAT PAGE YOU'RE AT NOW? WHAT QUESTION IS REFERENCED? OKAY.

AND WHERE, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THE, THE, THE HEADING FOR THE PARAGRAPH HAS POLL STATIONS.

OKAY.

MIDDLE OF THE PAGE.

AND GO AHEAD.

OH, THE KEY TO ANSWER IS LETTER A, WHICH IS VENTILATION LIMITED.

AND THEN HE GOES VERBATIM FOR THE REST OF THE QUESTION.

CONDITIONS CAN RESULT IN SMOKE PULSING OUT OF OPENINGS WITHIN THE STRUCTURE PERIOD.

AND IT'S VERBATIM IN THE BOOK, INCLUDING THE NEXT SENTENCE WHERE IT SAYS OPENING THE STRUCTURE IMPROPERLY OR AT THE WRONG LOCATION CAN HAVE FRESH AIR TO THE COMPARTMENT RESULTING IN RAPID FIRE GROWTH, LEADING TO FLASHOVER CONDITIONS.

IT IS VERBATIM IN THE BOOK WORD FOR WORD LETTER, FOR WETTER, FOR LETTER, JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY IN THIS, ON THIS PAGE, IS THERE A PLACE OKAY.

UP AT THE TOP IS WHERE IT SPEAKS? I TH I JUST ANSWERED MY OWN QUESTION.

IT SPEAKS TO THE VENTILATION CONTROL.

OKAY.

NEVERMIND.

AND, UH, IN REFERENCE TO THE NUMBER OF TEST TAKERS, IT WAS 25 TEST TAKERS, 24.

GOT IT.

CORRECT.

AND I MEAN, THOSE NUMBERS ARE NICE TO KNOW, BUT I'M REALLY FOCUSING ON WHAT YOU'VE SAID.

SO I'M STILL LOOKING AT THIS VENTILATION LIMITED.

YES, SIR.

IT'S JUST VERBATIM THE KEYED ANSWER AND THE QUESTION IN THE BOOK.

HM.

RIGHT.

WHERE IT SAYS UNDER PULL STATIONS, IT'S COMPLETELY VERBAL.

YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR HIM? I DO.

THANK YOU.

ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS QUESTION? QUESTION NUMBER 95.

ALL RIGHT.

MORNING.

GOOD MORNING.

UM, ROSS DIRE CROSS.

SO, UM, MIKE, I GUESS MY CONCERN FOR THIS IS, UM, SO W WHAT IS YOUR NAME, SWITZERLAND BUCKET, DR.

WHITMAN? I WAS JUST KIND OF CURIOUS AS TO, I KNOW YOU SPOKE ABOUT THE, THE DEFINITION AS BEING SEPARATE FROM THE TEXT.

IS, IS THAT KIND OF WHERE, WHAT YOU'RE THINKING IS NO, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE REFERENCE.

THE REFERENCE IS A REFERENCE, AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY SUPPORT THE TEXT, SAYS IT WAS KIND OF, I THOUGHT A GOOD WAY TO SUPPORT THAT OTHER ANSWER, BUT NOT NECESSARILY IN THE TEXT, PER SE, AS OFF TO THE SIDE ON, I GUESS THERE'S PAGE 1 77 HERE, SAME PAGE, UM, ON THIS PAGE ITSELF, THERE'S A REFERENCES, BOTH LIMITED VENTILATE OR HAVE BEEN RELEASED AND LIMITED AND VENTILATION CONTROLLED.

AND THE TEXTBOOK THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE TEXT, YOU WILL SEE THE DEFINITIONS AND TERMS, VENTILATION CONTROLLED.

WE'LL SEE THE TERMS VENTILATION LIMITED.

UM, ON THIS ONE PAGE, IT DOES LIST BOTH TERMS WITHIN THE TEXT ON THE FIRST SECTION UNDER VELOCITY, IT SAYS STATES IN CONTRAST, THE, THE VELOCITY OF AIRFLOW CAN INDICATE THAT THE FIRE IS SEVERELY VENTILATION LIMITED, FURTHER DOWN.

IT STATES AIR MOVEMENT IS RAPID AND TURBULENT AS THEY FIRE BECOMES VENTILATION AND CONTROLLED.

UM, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY ON THEIR PULSATIONS, THE KEY DANCER, IT WAS VENTILATION, OR EXCUSE ME, VENTILATION LIMITED CONDITIONS CAN RESULT IN SMOKE PULSING OUT OF OPENINGS WITHIN A STRUCTURE.

SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT WITHIN THIS, IT IS A LITTLE BIT CONFUSING.

CAUSE WITHIN THIS ONE PAGE, IT DOES USE BOTH TERMS FOR SPEAKING ABOUT THE SAME THING, PHILOSOPHY THAT PARAGRAPH.

DO YOU SEE THAT? YES.

AFTER THAT FIRST SENTENCE, IT SAYS SECOND SENTENCE.

AFTER THAT THESE DIFFERENCES, IT TALKS TO THEM IN TERMS OF

[00:55:01]

BEING DIFFERENT.

SO THEY'RE NOT SYNONYMOUS BASED ON THAT SENTENCE.

SO, BUT OKAY.

SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME.

THE, THESE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SLOW MOVEMENT AND VELOCITY OF AIR REFERENCING TWO DIFFERENT KINDS OF CONCEPTS, RIGHT? SO NOT SYNONYMOUS DIFFERENT REFERENCE.

THE SLOW MOVEMENT OF FRESH AIR IS NOT, IT'S NOT REFERENCING EITHER VENTILATION LIMITED OR VENTILATION CONTROL WHAT I SAY IT'S REFERENCING LIKE A LEMON NEAR FLOW OR SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE.

IT SAYS ONE SPECIFIC TYPE OF ACTION.

OKAY.

AND THEN THE NEXT ONE, IT SAYS IN CONTRAST, WHICH MEANS DIFFERENT RIGHT.

IN CONTRAST, THEN IT SAYS, SO, AND THEN IT TALKS ABOUT DIFFERENCES.

SO I DON'T SEE, I SEE THE BOOK IS SAYING THAT THERE'S A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE.

I GUESS MY CONCERN IS I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IN FOR PRECEDENTS DOWN THE ROAD, ARE WE, YOU KNOW, THAT THE, ARE WE GOING TO BE SEPARATED, THE DEFINITIONS AND THE GLOSSARY AND THE REFERENCES TO THE ACTUAL TESTING MATERIAL WITHIN THE PARAGRAPHS.

I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT THIS MAY SET A SET OF PRECEDENTS THAT WORK WE'RE SEPARATING PARTS OF THE BOOK.

I THINK IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR A SPECIFIC ANSWER, THEN THERE WAS THE SPECIFIC ANSWER DOES GIVE VARIANCES AND THOSE THINGS SHOULD BE TAUGHT AS WELL.

I THINK, UH, THEN TO HAVE A SPECIFIC ANSWER, UH, AS WAS SHOWN JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, THAT IT IS CLEARLY IN THE BOOK AND SAYS THAT THE THINK IT'S HARD TO, TO SAY THAT IT'S NOT A VALID QUESTION THEN FROM MY VIEWPOINT.

UM, I HAVE A QUESTION.

UM, THE WAY THE QUESTION IS WORDED IN OUR PACKET, I ASSUME IS THE EXACT WAY THAT IT APPEARS ON THE TEST.

I SEE THAT THE QUESTION AT THE END REFERENCES THE PAGE NUMBER IS THAT, IS THAT THE WAY THE TEST IS? SO IT, WHEN YOU'RE TAKING THE TEST AND YOU'RE READING THE QUESTION, IT REFERS YOU TO THAT SPECIFIC PAGE.

AND I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION IS, ARE YOU USING BOOKS IN ANY OF THESE TESTS? ARE THEY OKAY? THEY'RE NOT OPEN BOOK.

SO IT'S KIND OF, IT'S KIND OF LIKE A LITTLE TIP THERE FOR YOU TO TRY TO RECOLLECT.

WHAT PAGE DO YOU READ THAT QUESTION FROM A LITTLE BIT? YES.

AND, AND THE, UH, LOCAL REGULATIONS, 1 43 POINT, UH, 34 ON ITEM LEGACY FOR, UM, C AS STATES THAT H A TEST QUESTION CAN NOT BE CHALLENGED BASED OFF THE EVIDENCE THAT THE REFERENCE PAGE NUMBER IS INCORRECTLY STATED.

SO TO ME, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

THIS MEANS THAT IF THROUGHOUT THE BOOK, THE, UH, THE KEYED ANSWER IS INCORRECT THROUGHOUT THE BOOK, THEN IT MAY BE A CHALLENGE, A QUESTION WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T BRING FORTH SOMETHING SAYING THAT, WELL, ON THIS PAGE, IT SAYS THIS, OR I'M JUST BIG ON THE PAGE NUMBERS.

IT'S THE PAGE NUMBERS ON THE TEST, OR THERE'S GOING TO REFERENCE WHERE THE TEST MAKER GOT THE QUESTION FOR THE KEYED ANSWER.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

BUT THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO, I WOULD JUST WANT TO KIND OF SEE IF THIS IS GOING TO SET PRECEDENTS ON THE ROAD AND THE SHOW THAT IT WAS ALSO WITHIN THE PARAGRAPHS ITSELF, THAT THE BOOK TALKED ABOUT.

BOTH.

BOTH TERMS. OKAY.

THANK YOU.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE? HELLO, BRIAN.

OKAY.

OKAY.

AND, UM, I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT A FEW POINTS HERE.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS BEST QUESTION, THE FIRST THING THAT YOU REFERENCED IS THE PAGE NUMBER.

WHEN WE LOOK LIKE YOU SAID IT, IT'S, IT'S ROUGH, IT'S USED AS A REFERENCE.

SO INITIALLY THE TEST QUESTION COMES OFF OF PAGE 1 77.

THE PAGE THAT WE'RE THAT, UH, ALEXIS WAS USING TOBACCO PER HER POINT WAS OFF OF PAGE 41.

SO WE'RE TALKING DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE BOOK.

AND THEN WHEN WE GET INTO TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE BOOK ON PAGE 41, THIS IS UNDER THE SECTION REFERRING TO COMPARTMENT, FIRE DEVELOPMENT RIGHT THERE.

AND THEN WE'LL BE LOOKING AT THE TEST QUESTION.

UH, LIKE I SAID, WE'RE NOW WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE BOOK AND IT'S REFERRING TO, UH, WITHIN A STRUCTURE.

UH, NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THIS QUESTION IS VERBATIM ON THE TEST AS IT IS HERE.

SO I DON'T SEE ANY VARIANCES THERE, LIKE YOU SAID, THIS IS A TEST OF OUR

[01:00:01]

KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WE'RE ABLE TO RECALL.

UM, THE PAGE NUMBERS THERE FOR REFERENCE.

AND THEN ALSO, IF WE GO INTO CORNER HERE, WE'VE ALSO GOT THE DEFINITION OF VENTILATION CONTROLLED, UH, ON THE SAME PAGE WHERE IT'S REFERENCING VENT LIMITED CONDITIONS.

SO, UH, THE WAY THAT I SEE THIS IS THAT IT'S, IT'S A VALID QUESTION.

UH, IT'S WRITTEN THERE.

UH, THERE'S NO DISCREPANCY IN MY OPINION.

THANK YOU.

I DO HAVE ONE LAST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION FOR ALEXIS YES.

MA'AM.

YES.

SO I WAS READING OVER YOUR, UM, REQUEST TO CHALLENGE THAT QUESTION NUMBER 95.

UM, BUT WHAT ARE YOU, ARE YOU ASKING THAT IT BE ALLOWED AS A, AS ANOTHER APP TO HAVE TWO ANSWERS TO THE QUESTION? OR YOU SAYING THAT THE IT'S NOT A GOOD TEST QUESTION THAT WE SHOULD JUST THROW IT OUT ALTOGETHER? WHAT'S YOUR, THE QUESTION IS, IS GOOD.

I HAVE NO QUALMS WITH THE QUESTION WAS WHOEVER, UM, I AM ARGUING THAT SECOND BULLET POINT AGAIN.

I'M SORRY.

I KEEP REPEATING IT.

UM, THERE EXISTS.

OTHER ANSWERS PROVIDED TO THE QUESTION WHICH ARE CLEARLY EQUAL TO THE APPROVED ANSWER.

NOWHERE ON THERE.

DOES IT SAY WHICH PAGE NUMBER HAS TO COME FROM? IT DOESN'T SAY IT HAS TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE.

UM, AS I'VE STATED, A BUNCH OF TIMES IS THAT THE DEFINITION IS SYNONYMOUS.

THEY ARE EQUAL TO EACH OTHER.

VENTILATION LIMITED IS ALSO KNOWN AS VENTILATION CONTROLLED.

AND TO ME PROVES MY POINT IS THAT THE QUESTION HONESTLY, IS IRRELEVANT.

KIND OF LIKE WHAT I SAID, ANY QUESTION COULD BE POSED.

AND IF YOU HAD VENTILATION LIMITED AND VENTILATION CONTROLLED AS AN ANSWER, THOSE TWO THINGS ARE SYNONYMOUS PER THE TEXT.

THERE ARE WORD FOR WORD DEFINITIONS.

UM, SO YOU, THAT BOTH ANSWERED A N B SHOULD BE COUNTED AS CORRECT? YES.

MA'AM CAUSE THEY'RE SYNONYMOUS.

SO THOSE ARE ANSWERED DAY.

THOSE WHO ANSWERED B IS CORRECT PER MY, UH, OPTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION THAT THEY ARE EQUAL TO THE DEFINITIONS THAT ARE STATED THEY'RE EQUAL TO EACH OTHER, ALSO KNOWN AS SYNONYMOUS AND EQUAL TO EACH OTHER.

OKAY.

THAT WAS MY QUESTION.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? NO.

DID HE HAVE A, UM, A MOTION THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND OR PROPOSE? UM, HM IF YOU GO BY THE GLOSSARY, IT DOES SHOW HER POINT, BUT IF YOU GO BY THE TEXT, IT'S CLEARLY OUTLINED.

SO I DON'T KNOW, ARE WE TESTING? I MEAN, WE'RE TESTING NOW.

I JUST BETTER HER REFERENCING THE BOOK.

GLOSSARY IS PART OF IT, BUT NOT REALLY THE SUBSTANCE OF THE BOOK.

THAT'S THE, HOW I VIEW IT.

AND IF I WENT WITH THE TEXT, THEN THE QUESTION STANDS.

YES.

IT'S NOT EASY.

UH, I LIKED THE FIRST GENTLEMAN'S ARGUMENT AS WE STARTED THE, EVEN BETTER BETWEEN THE FIFTH AND THE THIRD.

BUT, UM, BUT BASED ON THE TEXT, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT THE QUESTIONS STANDS.

GLOSSARY IS PART OF THE TEXT.

IT'S, UM, IT'S PART OF THE, YEAH.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO, UM, COME BACK UP TO THE MIC.

IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK AND RESTATE YOUR NAME, ALEXIS SMITH, AGAIN, THEY GAVE US SIX TEXTBOOKS TO STUDY AND THEY ONLY GAVE YOU THE TITLE IN THE BOOK.

HE SAID, STUDY THIS BOOK FOR THIS TEST.

THEY DIDN'T SAY READ ONLY THIS READ ONLY THAT READ ONLY THE GLOSSARY OR NOT.

WE HAD SIX TEXTBOOKS AND WE KNEW EVERY WORD IN HERE WAS FAIR GAME.

SO WE STUDIED PICTURES, THE WORDS I NEED, THE PICTURES I READ THROUGH THE GLOSSARY I MADE OVER.

I MEAN, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US DEDICATED 90 DAYS AND PUSHED OUR FAMILIES AND LOVED ONES TO THE SIDE FOR US TO STUDY EVERY SINGLE WORD OF THIS BOOK.

SO THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING IS THE GLOSSARY IS ALSO JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE TEXT ITSELF.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

WELL I, ALL RIGHT.

YOU HAVE TO COME TO THE MIC IF YOU WANT TO BE RECOGNIZED.

[01:05:06]

GOOD MORNING.

GOOD MORNING.

MY NAME'S CHAD ROBERTSON.

I'D LIKE TO KEEP THE QUESTION THE WAY IT IS AND WHAT SHE WAS SAYING ABOUT STUDYING FOR 90 DAYS.

THAT'S TRUE.

THIS HAS BEEN A VERY, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AND IF YOU JUST GO BASED OFF OF CONCEPTS, I THINK EVERYBODY HERE WOULD DO REALLY, REALLY WELL.

SO IF EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THE CONCEPTS, THEN YOU GET A HUNDREDS, YOU GET LOTS OF HUNDREDS.

AND THE PROMOTIONAL EXAM IS NOT VERY EFFECTIVE AT CREATING PROMOTIONS.

WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO IS THEY HAVE TO TAKE SPECIFIC TEXTS, GO WORD FOR WORD IN THE QUESTION.

AND THEY ASK YOU THAT THAT'S WHAT THIS QUESTION IS.

IT'S WORD FOR WORD OUT OF THE BOOK.

THERE'S NO WAY.

I MEAN, IN MY OPINION, YES.

UM, IS SHE MAKING A PRETTY DECENT ARGUMENT ABOUT VENTILATION CONTROL, VENTILATION LIMITED BEING THE SAME? YEAH.

BUT DOES THAT MAKE THE QUESTION INVALID? I DON'T THINK SO.

WE ALL HAVE TO MEMORIZE A BOOK BASICALLY.

I MEAN, IT'S, THIS IS A EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE TEST, EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE.

SO IT HAS TO BE A WAY TO SEPARATE THAT YOU GUYS ARE A LOT SMARTER THAN I AM.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

SO, UM, I AM GOING TO MOVE THAT.

WE UPHOLD THE QUESTION AND ANSWER AS ORIGINALLY SCORED ON THE TEST.

DO I HAVE A SECOND? I DO.

AND MY REASON AGAIN FOR THAT IS THAT WHEN WE ASK OUR FIREFIGHTERS TO TAKE A TEST LIKE THIS, WE ASK THEM, DO YOU HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION AND MAKE THE BEST DECISION THEY CAN? BASED ON THE TEXT.

I KNOW THAT THE GLOSSARY IS PART OF THE TEXT, BUT THE TEXT ITSELF GAVE THIS SPECIFIC ANSWER.

AND THAT'S WHAT I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR.

SO I AGREE.

OKAY.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

OKAY.

SO ITEM NUMBER, UH, QUESTION NUMBER 95 IS A PILLED.

AND MOVING ON TO THE FINAL QUESTION, BEING APPEALED, WHICH IS, UM, QUESTION NUMBER 91.

UM, BRIAN SOUTHWORTH, YOU WOULD LIKE TO WITHDRAW THAT.

OKAY.

THE APPEAL FOR QUESTION NUMBER 91 HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.

OKAY.

SO THAT FINALIZES ITEM NUMBER SIX ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS TO HEAR THE APPEALS FROM THE EXAM CONDUCTED ON FEBRUARY THE 10TH, 2022, WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, WHICH IS TO REVIEW MONTHLY REPORTS OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

YOU LEAVE, HI, ALEXIS AND OTHERS ARE REALLY WANT TO SAY, I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU DO FOR OUR CITY, UH, AS A, UM, A CIVIL SERVANT, UH, COMING TO THE BOARD LIKE THIS.

I APPRECIATE YOU DOING THAT BECAUSE IT LETS US KNOW TO LOOK AT THESE THINGS EVEN MORE CLOSELY AND HAVE THE FUTURE BUILD BETTER THINGS.

SO THANK YOU FOR COMING.

ALL OF YOU.

THANK YOU.

ABSOLUTELY.

OKAY.

MONTHLY REPORTS TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

THANK YOU.

IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE TODAY TO SHARE WITH YOU THE, UH, WHAT THE DATA IS INDICATING FOR US AND THE, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

WHEN THE MONTHLY REPORTS WE'RE SEEING THE EMS CALLS ARE WAY UP STRUCTURE FIRES ARE DOWN FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR, BUT, UM, I'M NOT REAL SURE WHAT THE SOURCES OF THOSE ARE.

EMS CALLS BEING UP.

DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE AS WE'RE COMING OUT OF COVID.

UH, OTHER THAN IF IT WAS AMI CRON RELATED DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, UH, THE LICE LATEST REPORTS WE HAVE IN HERE RIGHT NOW, OR, UH, THE FIRST FOUR MONTHS OF THE YEAR, WE ARE SUING THE 7% INCREASE IN TOTAL CALLS, UH, FOR, UH, FIRE AND EMS AND ALL OTHER SOURCES AS WELL.

SO, UM, RESPONSE TIME SEEMED TO BE DOWN A LITTLE BIT.

I ANTICIPATE PART OF THAT REASON IS OUR CREWS ARE ON EMS CALLS IN PARTICULAR, PROBABLY NOT TAKING AS MUCH TIME, UH, DON AND THEIR, UH, PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT AND THE LEVEL OF PROTECTION.

THEY MAY HAVE DROPPED DOWN A LITTLE BIT VERSUS LAST YEAR, THIS TIME, UH, WE WERE STILL NECK DEEP IN COVID AND GUYS WERE STILL HAVING TO DON GOWNS ON EVERY CALL.

UH, SO I THINK THAT WE'VE SEEN A SLIGHT REDUCTION IN RESPONSE TIME.

DO TELL US WHAT THAT SLIGHT REDUCTION IS.

UH, THE REDUCTION THIS YEAR OVER LAST FROM RESPONSE TIME HAS BEEN NINE SECONDS.

SO WE, WE TYPICALLY ON EMS, UH,

[01:10:01]

THIS YEAR WE'RE AVERAGE RESPONSE, TIME IS FIVE MINUTES, 11 SECONDS.

LAST YEAR, SAME TIMEFRAME WAS FIVE MINUTES, 20 SECONDS.

UM, SAME THING ON, UH, NINE EMS CALLS THAT HAS COME DOWN A LITTLE BIT AS WELL, BUT THAT TAKES IN A LOT OF THE SERVICE CALLS, WHICH A LOT OF TIMES ARE THE ENVELOPE, DESIST, TOP CALLS.

SOMEBODY HAS FALLEN, CAN'T GET THEMSELVES UP ON THOSE CALLS.

UH, WE'RE STILL DAWN IN THE GALLON, SO WE DIDN'T SEE AS MUCH REDUCTION ON THAT.

ARE YOU HAPPY WITH IT? I MEAN, CAN YOU LIVE WITH THAT RAINS? YES, SIR.

IT'S, IT'S KIND OF EXPECTED, UH, WE'LL, WE'LL SEE SOME FLUCTUATIONS IN THAT MONTH TO MONTH AND QUARTER TO QUARTER, WHETHER KIND OF EFFECT IT RATHER CAN ABSOLUTELY AFFECT IT.

UH, THE HIGHER CALL VOLUMES, UH, THE TIME OF DAY THAT WE SEE HIGHER CALL VOLUMES, WE HAVE SLOWER RESPONSE TIMES.

UH, SO WHEN I'M SEEING AN INCREASE IN THE EMS CALLS THAT TELLS ME I SHOULD EXPECT A DECREASE OR EXCUSE ME, AN INCREASE, UH, LIKE INCREASE IN RESPONSE TIME AS WELL.

BUT THE COVID WORLD HAS REALLY ALTERED ALL DATA SOURCES.

UH, WE'RE SEEING THE REDUCTION IN RESPONSE TIMES, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE SEEING A HIGHER CALL VOLUME, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHERE THE GOWNING COMES INTO PLAY.

UH, OTHERWISE I THINK IF WE WERE LOOKING THREE YEARS BACK, WE WOULD SEE THAT OUR RESPONSE TIMES ARE HIGHER DUE TO THE, THE HIGHER VOLUME OF CALL, WHICH REDUCES THE AVAILABILITY OF AN END DISTRICT UNIT THEN SENT TO THE CALL.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, CHIEF.

SO MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, REVIEW LETTERS OF APPRECIATION RECEIVED BY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

THOSE ARE ALWAYS VERY PLEASANT.

WE'VE GOT TWO LETTERS IN HERE ON THIS ONE.

UH, BOTH OF THEM ARE THE SAME EVENT.

UH, SO I'M GOING TO COMBINE THE REPORT ON THEM, ONE OF THEM, UH, AND IT'S THE LAST LETTER IN THERE IS FROM A CITIZEN WHO WROTE TO CROSS OF HELP FROM THEIR NEIGHBORS HOME.

UH, THEY STEPPED OUT TO SEE THE HOME WHILE INVOLVED IN FIRE HERE IN THE CRIES OF HELP.

THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ARRIVED.

AND IN THEIR WORDS, UH, THE, THE NEIGHBORS WORDS NEVER SEEN SUCH EFFICIENCY AND PURPOSE, UH, WHICH IS A PRIDE MOMENT AS A FIRE CHIEF, BECAUSE WE INSTILL ON OUR PEOPLE TO, TO MOVE WITH PURPOSE.

UH, WE DON'T RUN ON THE FIRE GROUNDS, UH, IF WE ARE FOLLOW US, RIGHT? UH, WE'RE, WE'RE GOING THE OTHER WAY IF WE'RE RUNNING.

UH, BUT WE, WE DO TELL THEM TO MOVE WITH PURPOSE, MOVE, MAKE EVERY MOVEMENT ON THE FIRE GROUND, ALMOST LOOK CHOREOGRAPHED.

UH, AND MANY TIMES IT IS CHOREOGRAPHED.

SO WE WERE PROUD THAT THE CREW ON THAT WAS CAPTAIN PRUITT, UH, CRAIG PRUITT, UH,