* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. THIS IS TUESDAY, JULY 12TH, 2022. [Community Services Committee on July 12, 2022.] [00:00:03] IT IS 4:00 PM. UM, I AM DEBRA MORRIS CHAIR OF THE COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE. AND WITH ME, ARE THEY TWO COMMITTEE MEMBERS, COUNCIL MEMBER MORRIS, AND MORE NOT MY NAME MORE AND COUNCIL MEMBER LUCKED, UM, ALONG WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE STAFF. SO WE WILL START WITH ITEM WANT APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 7TH, 2022 MEETING, UM, COMMITTEE MEMBERS. HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES MOTION? WE APPROVE THE MINUTES. SECOND. THANK YOU ALL IN FAVOR. AYE. OKAY. MOTION PASSES. ALL RIGHT. ITEM TO, UH, DISCUSS GENERAL PARK RULES AND HOURS OF OPERATION. AND THE, I ASSUME YOU'RE UP FOR THIS GOOD AFTERNOON COUNCIL MEMBERS. UH, WE WILL GO THROUGH, UM, A VERY SHORT POWERPOINT. THERE'S NOT A LOT OF NEW INFORMATION HERE AND IT'S KIND OF, UH, UH, SHOWING THE, THE RECOMMENDED OR DISCUSS CHANGES IN THE PARK HOURS. UM, ALL RIGHT. IT WORKS. IT'S GOOD. SO ESSENTIALLY WE'VE GOT, UM, I'LL SUMMARIZE VERY QUICKLY. WE'VE GOT A HANDFUL OF CHANGES HERE, UM, TO ADDRESS SOME ONGOING CONCERNS AND WE CAN COVER THOSE IN MORE DETAIL HERE IN A MOMENT. UM, SO WE WOULD HAVE SOME RECOMMENDED CHANGES FOR, UM, 6:00 AM TO 10:00 PM ON THE BULK OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY PARKS. UH, AND THEN WITH THE SPRING CREEK PRESERVES, THOSE TWO ADDRESS LOCATIONS OFF OF HOLFORD ROAD WOULD BE 6:00 AM UNTIL, UH, EITHER THIS SAYS 30 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET. UH, IF WE WANT TO DISCUSS DUSK OR SOMETHING, UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE CERTAINLY CAN. UM, AND THEN AGAIN, 6:00 AM TO MIDNIGHT ON THESE ENUMERATED PARKS THAT YOU SEE. AND THE PURPOSE FOR THAT IS, IS THOSE HAVE ATHLETIC FACILITIES IN THEM. AND SO THAT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO SEE, UH, THE GAMES IN THOSE AREAS GO TILL MIDNIGHT. IF THEY HAVE A SPECIAL TOURNAMENT THAT GOES AROUND THE CLOCK PAST THE END, AND THEY CAN REQUEST, UH, MY PERMISSION TO DO THAT. AND IT HAPPENS ON OCCASION, PARTICULARLY AT AUTOBON. UM, SO THAT'S A BRIEF RUNDOWN OF THE, OF THE CHANGES I THINK CURRENTLY, UM, IT IS MIDNIGHT IN ALL OF THE PARKS, UM, AND IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED AT THE PARK BOARD LEVEL SOME MONTHS AGO. UM, AND AGAIN, UH, VERY BRIEFLY AT THIS SUBCOMMITTEE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO. SO, UH, WITH THAT I'LL, I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION GOING FORWARD, MAYBE MEMBERS, ANY QUESTIONS? YES. SO THE 6:00 AM TIME IS, IS A LITTLE BAD FOR ME. I WORK, UM, I KNOW A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WORK, ESPECIALLY WHEN USING TRAILS OR WALKING PATHS WITHIN PARKS. I LIKE TO GO TO THE PARK AT FIVE 30 IN THE MORNING AND, UM, BETWEEN FIVE AND FIVE 30 SO THAT I CAN MAKE IT TO WORK BY 8:00 AM. AND 6:00 AM IS JUST A LITTLE TOO LATE FOR ME. I'M IN THE MORNINGS. I'M NOT. SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM OPEN UNTIL 11, JUST BECAUSE MEAN, WE GET OUT OF A COUNCIL MEETING LATE. I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE MY DOGS OUT FOR A WALK. UM, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND THE, THE NEED FOR, UH, A SHORTER EVENING TIME. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE 5:00 AM AS THE OPENING TIME, RIGHT? FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT, I CERTAINLY WON'T SPEAK FOR THE, FOR THE SUBCOMMITTEE, BUT THAT, THAT DOESN'T BOTHER THE STAFF AS MUCH. IT IS THE CLOSING TIME FOR THE EXACT REASON THAT YOU SPECIFIED, IF I'M GETTING UP AND I WANT TO WALK AT 5:00 AM, THAT'S MY MORNING WORKOUT ROUTINE BEFORE IT GETS TO BE 112, THAT THAT'S A PERFECTLY REASONABLE AND NOT AN UNCOMMON, UH, HOUR TO SEE IN THE PARKS. OUR CONCERN IS FOR OBVIOUS REASONS TENDS TO BE THAT, THAT, UH, ON YOUR GENERAL PARK PROPERTIES AFTER 10:00 PM, UNLESS IT'S A SANCTIONED EVENT PROGRAM OR ATHLETIC EVENT, THERE'S JUST NOT A LOT OF ACTIVITY THAT GOES ON THAT, THAT WE WOULD CLASSIFY AS LEGITIMATE PARK USE. WE ENDED UP CLEANING UP, UH, AS SOON AS WE'RE NOTIFIED OR DISCOVERED OURSELVES AFTER VANDALISM AND GRAFFITI AND THOSE THINGS THAT ARE, THAT ARE VERY PREVALENT IN A VARIETY OF PARKS. I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND I, I, LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE CLOSING TIME THAT I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT'S THE OPENING TIME, SO, OKAY. ULTIMATE MORE. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS DEAD? I'LL LOOK AT THE, I LOOKED AT THE CHART THAT YOU PUT TOGETHER RELATED TO DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES. AND, UH, I DO SEE A LOT OF VARIANCE THERE. UM, IT WAS INTERESTING THAT A COUNCIL MEMBER BROUGHT UP THE, ON A FIVE AWESOME FIVE 30 IS IN THERE AND SOME S FIVES. UH, BUT I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY REAL PREFERENCE AS FAR AS THE OPENING AND CLOSING. AND, UH, I GUESS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD HAVE IS THAT THE STAFF IS NOT GOING TO BE DEALING WITH IT THAT [00:05:01] LATE IN THE EVENING. ANYWAY, WE WOULD NORMALLY WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T HAVE STAFF OUT 10 OR 11 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT ANYWAY. SO IT'S ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS OF WHERE REALLY, UH, HOW ARE WE ENFORCING IT? SO GENERALLY BOTH FOR OUR STAFF, AS WELL AS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, IT IT'S COMPLAINT DRIVEN. AND SO IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE A SITUATION WHERE, BECAUSE IT REALLY DOESN'T CHANGE. IT GOES FROM MIDNIGHT TO 10, OUR PRACTICES DON'T NECESSARILY CHANGE, BUT IT DOES GIVE OUR STAFF, PARTICULARLY THE POLICE OFFICERS, A TOOL THAT SHOULD THEY GET A COMPLAINT, OR SHOULD THEY DRIVE THROUGH ON THEIR NORMAL, UH, UH, BEAT FOR AN OFFICER AT THAT HOUR. AND THEY SEE SOMETHING GOING ON, THEY NOW HAVE A TOOL, YOU KNOW, AND I, AND I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE. CITATIONS ARE NOT THE FIRST GO-TO MANEUVER. WE'D SURE LOVE TO HAVE THANK YOU. UM, VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE, IF THEY'VE BEEN PROPERLY INFORMED AND EDUCATED, AND THEN THOSE THAT WANT TO PRESS THE ISSUE, THEN, THEN THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, DO WHAT THEY DO BEST. SO IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING OPERATIONALLY. IT JUST ALLOWS US, THE NEIGHBORS TO, IF THEY SEE SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T BE GOING ON, IT'S A TOOL TO SAY, YOU KNOW, PARK'S CLOSED AND, AND YOU GOT TO LEAVE. I'M SURE YOU'VE ALSO, UH, ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS WITH CHIEF AND, OR YOU'VE MADE THIS RECOMMENDATION OF 10 O'CLOCK. IS THERE A, IS THERE A REALLY, THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 10 AND 11 OR FIVE AND SIX, AS IT RELATES TO HOW THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WILL BE VIEWING IT? I'LL LET CHIEF ANSWER THAT FROM, FROM OUR STANDPOINT AGAIN, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THAT I THINK AS TIME GOES FORWARD, UM, YOU KNOW, FOLKS THAT HAVE THINGS TO DO THE NEXT DAY, SUCH AS GO TO WORK, GO TO SCHOOL, UM, MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN THE PARK PAST THAT TIME. SO FUNCTIONALLY I'LL CERTAINLY DEFER TO CHIEF BRIAN ON THAT. WELL, CERTAINLY MORE NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY IS LATER IN THE NIGHT. UH, I DIDN'T PULL STATS BETWEEN 10, 11, 11, AND 12. I PULLED STATS BETWEEN 10 AND MIDNIGHT. UH, WE DON'T SEE A LOT OF CALLS AND WE LOOKED AT AUDUBON PARK, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS, WE HAD 10 CALLS BETWEEN 10:00 PM AND MIDNIGHT BRADFIELD PARK. WE HAD 20, UH, CENTRAL PARK. WE HAD 25, SO WE DON'T SEE A LOT OF CALLS, BUT IT'S KIND OF LIKE ANDY SAID, UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT IF THERE'S A GROUP THERE CAUSING PROBLEMS, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TOOLS TO TAKE CARE OF THAT. IT JUST BE A TOOL TO, TO CHASE THEM AWAY FROM THE PARK. I DON'T ANTICIPATE OFFICERS CHECKING PARKS AT, AT 10 O'CLOCK AND CLEARING OUT PARKS. THAT'S, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEIR FUNCTION WOULD BE. IT JUST WOULD BE WHEN THE ISSUE CAME UP. OKAY. AND SO WITH THAT, UM, I'M KIND OF, OF THE OPINION THAT I DON'T REALLY DO THE PARK BECAUSE THE AREA THAT I LIVE IN ALMOST SIX O'CLOCK IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I'M WALKING THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT I'M ALWAYS LISTENING TO OUR CITIZENRY. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO GIVE YOU AN HOUR ON ONE END AND MAYBE SO I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM AT ALL IF THE ROUTE THE COMMITTEE CHOSE. UM, WELL, THANK YOU. AND JUST, JUST FOR CLARITY, AS FAR AS, AS, UM, SOMETHING THAT CHIEF BRIAN HAS DISCUSSED WITH US WITH PREVIOUS, UM, ISSUES LIKE, UM, SOME OF THE RULES ON THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE ABOUT NOT SLEEPING ON THE SQUARE, UM, AND THAT GAVE THEM WHEN THERE WASN'T A SPECIFIC RULE AGAINST IT, AND IT'S A PUBLIC SPACE. THEN THERE, THERE WAS NO ACTION THAT COULD BE TAKEN. BUT IF YOU SAY YOU CAN'T BE MAKING A BED AND SLEEPING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SQUARE, THEN IF THERE IS A CALL AND THEY'VE GOT THAT PROBLEM, THIS JUST GIVES THEM AN ORDINANCE AVENUE TO SAY, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T BE HERE. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY THAT WOULD, ALL THIS WOULDN'T BE PATROLLING THE PARKS. THIS WOULD JUST BE GIVING YOU WAY TO, IF SOMEBODY CALLS IN AND THERE'S PEOPLE THERE AFTER THE CLOSED HOURS, YOU CAN JUST SAY, YOU CAN'T BE HERE. THAT'S GREAT. IT'D BE A WAY FOR US TO ADDRESS PROBLEMS. UM, NOT JUST PEOPLE WALKING DOGS IN THE PARKER NOW, OF COURSE, I CAN'T ENCOURAGE YOU TO BREAK THE LAW, BUT WE WOULD NOT BE PROACTIVE. IT'D BE RESPONSE TO PROBLEMS. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND, UM, AND I ACTUALLY AGREE, AND I, AND I HAD BEEN SPEAKING, I THINK, EARLIER TO, UH, KEVIN OR TO, OR TO COUNCILMAN MOORE, THE, UH, THE STARTING TIME. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH, WITH OPENING THE PARKS AT 5:00 AM. UM, MY HUSBAND'S ONE OF THE 5:15 AM WALKERS AT CENTRAL PARK. WE'RE NOT HA I MEAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. ARE WE HAVING ANY BAD THINGS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE EARLY HOURS OF THE MORNING IN GENERAL? MOST OF IT'S LATE AT NIGHT. OKAY. SO I WOULD BE FINE WITH US SAYING, UM, ANDY, UNLESS YOU HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT MAKING THE OPENING HOURS 5:00 AM, THAT'S A GREAT SUGGESTION. OKAY. AND THEN JUST, UM, HAVING THEM BE CLOSED [00:10:01] AT, AT 10 WITH THE EXCEPTIONS THAT WE'VE LISTED, WHICH IS THE, UM, SPORTS EVENTS THAT WE HAVE SPECIFICALLY SCHEDULED AND THE DIFFERENT HOURS FOR OUR PRESERVES. UM, SO, AND DO YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE POSSIBILITY OF CHANGING SOME OF THE LANGUAGE FROM AFTER SUNSET TO DUSK, CAN YOU SPEAK TO ME ABOUT THE, UM, ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES? DO WE, WOULD IT BE BEST FOR US TO CHANGE THAT? IT CERTAINLY COULD BE PROBLEMATIC. CAUSE DUSK, I THINK IS EASIER TO PROBABLY DETERMINE THE REASONABLE PERSON COULD DETERMINE DUSK VERSUS 30 MINUTES PAST SUNSET, BECAUSE IS THAT WHEN IT'S, IT GETS PRETTY SPECIFIC AND THEN IT BECOMES, IS THAT NAUTICAL, IS THAT ASTRONOMICAL? WAS THAT WITH GREENWICH? MEANTIME? I DON'T KNOW. I'D HATE TO SEE IT, BUT I THINK AT LEAST A REASONABLE AN OFFICER OR A STAFF PERSON WOULD SAY, HEY, DUSK, IS THERE STILL LIGHT OUT? IT'S DARK. IT'S TIME TO GO RATHER THAN CAUSE, CAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT DOES CHANGE BY TWO OR THREE MINUTES EACH DAY FORWARD AND BACKWARDS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. SO. OKAY. AND WHO'S GOING TO KEEP TRACK OF THAT. YOU DON'T WANT TO, I'M SURE POLICE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T WANT TO. SO, UM, COMMITTEE, I WOULD SUPPORT THE CHANGE IN LANGUAGE TO SAY I'M AT DUSK RATHER THAN 30 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET. DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION? UM, WELL I REALLY DON'T LIKE AN EARLY CLOSING FOR THE PRESERVES SIMPLY BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE WORK IN THE, IN THE WINTER HOURS UNTIL THE SUN GOES DOWN DUSK. UM, AND THEN THEY DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO GO AND VISIT THEIR PARKS THAT THEY PAY TO SUPPORT AND MAINTAIN. SO I THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY MY ISSUE WITH HAVING AN EARLIER PART CLOSING TIME, ANY PARK IS THAT PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR TIME WORKING AND PAYING TAXES DON'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENJOY THEM AFTER WORK. SO I'M, I'M, I'M REALLY, I, I KNOW THAT THE PRESERVE, UM, SOCIETY CAME TO YOU GUYS AND ASKED THAT THE HOURS BE LOWERED, WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL CLOSING TIME? SO THEIR SUGGESTION WAS DUSK. AND I THINK WE HAD THE SAME DISCUSSION AMONGST OURSELVES AT PARK BOARD. AND I DO BELIEVE THAT'S HOW WE ENDED UP WITH 30 MINUTES AFTER, BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S, I DON'T KNOW THAT ONE'S BETTER THAN THE OTHER. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF, YOU KNOW, SHOULD IT BE CHALLENGED? HOW DIFFICULT DOES THAT BECOME? UM, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU KNOW, I WOULD THINK THAT BECAUSE THE PRESERVES ARE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, NOT LIGHTED, NOT THE TRAILS, NOT THE PARKING LOTS, MAYBE THE EXITS, I THINK I'M NOT EVEN SURE THEY HAVE LIGHTS ON THE WAY OUT. SO IT BECOMES A SITUATION THAT COMMON SENSE. WE WOULD ALWAYS ADVISE FOLKS THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE HE WOULD PUT SIGNS UP ABOUT PARKING, YOUR CAR LOCK, TAKE HIDE KIND OF THING, YOU KNOW, USING PARKS, USING AN UNLIGHTED FACILITY WHEN IT'S TOTALLY DARK IS NOT ADVISABLE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S ILLEGAL UNTIL WE CHANGE. IT JUST MEANS IT MIGHT NOT BE ADVISABLE. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO LEAVE AT 30 MINUTES PAST DUSK? IT SURE COULD TO ALLOW YOU TO ENJOY IT UNTIL IT'S TOTALLY DARK. AND THEN IT GIVES YOU TIME TO LEAVE WAS, WAS THE ORIGINAL ARGUMENT. HMM. I THINK THAT, UH, QUITE OFTEN NOW HE'S FINE. HE CAN TALK, OH NO, NO, MY MINE IS, I CAN WAIT. IT'S REALLY, IT'S NOT THAT, NOT THAT IMPORTANT. IT'S REALLY SOMETHING THAT THE CHIEF PROBABLY SHOULD COMMENT ON, BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO, I THINK THAT OFTEN WE MAKE OUR DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT'S THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN. WHEREAS THE MATTER OF FACT, WE'RE LIVING DURING A PERIOD NOW WHERE WITH COVID AND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE, UH, I THINK THAT WE'RE SHOULD BE LOOKING MORE ALONG THE LINES OF HOW BEST TO HELP OUR CITIZENS STREET TO TRULY UTILIZE THE RECREATIONAL FACILITIES THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US. AND SO, UH, AGAIN, UH, IF IN FACT A LONGER HOUR WOULD BE WHAT THE CITIZENRY IS, THEN I WOULD CERTAINLY, UH, SUPPORT THAT AGAIN, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WE DO WANT THEM, WE WANT THEM OUT WALKING, WE WANT THEM OUT W W WE WANT THEM TO HAVE GOOD, HEALTHY, AND WE HAVE SO MANY PARKS AND WE'RE PUTTING SO MUCH MONEY INTO THE TRAILS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO, UH, THAT WOULD BE A CONSIDERATION THAT I WOULD CERTAINLY, UH, THINK ABOUT AS WE MAKE THE DECISION. ALSO DOESN'T DON'T THEY HAVE AFTER DARK, UM, TOURS, THIS, UH, THE PRESERVATION TH THEY DO, AND THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE COULD MAKE A PROVISION. YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE IF A SPORTING EVENT WAS GOING TO PLAY A 24 HOUR TOURNAMENT AT CARTER, THEY JUST EMAIL US. WE GIVE WRITTEN PERMISSION, NO BIG DEAL, SAME THING THERE, WHEN, WHEN THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S SCHEDULED AND THAT'S AN EASY THING TO APPROVE, UM, AND MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT CRIMINALIZING ANYBODY FOR A PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE USE, RIGHT. IT'S DO THEY PLAN ON HAVING TOURNAMENTS OF ANY KIND AT THE SKATE PARK? UH, SO WE WILL, UH, THAT HAS YET TO BE DETERMINED EXACTLY THE FORMAT AND HOW THAT'S GOING TO GO. THOSE, THOSE [00:15:01] OBVIOUSLY ARE LIGHTED AS YOU'VE SEEN, UM, IN THE DESIGN. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, UNDER THIS PROPOSAL, THE PARK WOULD BE CLOSED AT 10, WHICH I WOULD STILL BE IN SUPPORTIVE, UH, FOR THAT PART. HOWEVER, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER, UH, ATHLETIC EVENT, IT WOULD GET WRITTEN APPROVAL. AND THEN IF WE FELT LIKE THE CROWD WAS ENOUGH OR DICTATED ENOUGH, IT MIGHT BE A SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT. IT MIGHT JUST BE NOTIFYING, YOU KNOW, THE NPOS THAT, HEY, THIS IS GOING ON, DON'T BE, YOU KNOW, CAUGHT OFF GUARD THAT THIS IS HAPPENING. SO IT'D BE AN EASY THING TO ACCOMMODATE. OKAY. SO IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE A, UH, SPECIAL EVENTS PERMIT THAT WOULD NEED TO BE ISSUED IN ORDER TO USE THE PARKS UNTIL MIDNIGHT, AS CORRECT FOR RIGHT. FOR THE ONES THAT ARE ATHLETIC THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S ALREADY, THAT'S ITS MAIN USE OF THAT FACILITY RECODING WASN'T ON THAT LIST. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I QUESTIONED. YEAH. SO THAT ONE, THAT ONE IS, WOULD BE, UM, TREATED LIKE A NEIGHBORHOOD IN A COMMUNITY PARK AT 10:00 PM. IT'S NOT PRIMARY, PRIMARILY ATHLETIC, BUT IT COULD BE ON OCCASION. SO I WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T SEE US DOING MAYBE TWO TO SIX A YEAR POSSIBLY IN IT, MAYBE MORE, BUT IT WOULD ALL BE BY PERMISSION. UM, WHEREAS IN SOFTBALL, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR THEM TO PLAY SIX NIGHTS A WEEK TILL TILL MIDNIGHT. I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU. UM, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF SKATEBOARDERS EVEN THOUGH THE PARK ISN'T OPEN THERE LATE AT NIGHT, AND THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING, BECAUSE I REALLY FEEL LIKE THAT'S GOING TO BE A BONE OF CONTENTION THERE. UM, THEY'RE GOING TO BE THERE AFTER HOURS. AND IF WE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE REALLY HARD TO POLICE THAT PARK IN PARTICULAR. UM, AND UH, I MEAN, SKATEBOARDING IS IN THE OLYMPICS, IT'S AN ATHLETIC SPORT. I FEEL LIKE THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN JUST AS MUCH, UM, LENIENCY AS BASEBALL AND SOCCER TO USE, TO UTILIZE THE PARK. UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE RECODE AND ADDED TO THAT LIST. SO TWO TO MIDNIGHT INSTEAD OF 10:00 PM. CAUSE IT, YEAH, CAUSE IT, WHENEVER THE, WHATEVER THE TIME IS, THOSE LIGHTS ARE SCHEDULED TO GO OFF. SO IF IT'S CLOSED AT 10, IT GOES OFF. IF IT CLOSES AT MIDNIGHT, UM, I MEAN CENTRAL PARK IS WITHIN A NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL. AND UH, AS ARE THE OTHER PART AND I, AND I'M, I'M, I'M THINKING ON MY FEET HERE FOR A SECOND, ONE THING TO POTENTIALLY CONSIDER IS THE HOMES THAT ARE RIGHT NEXT TO THE SKATE PARK. UM, YES, THERE ARE HOMES ON TWO SIDES OF CENTRAL PARK. THEY'RE A TAD BIT FURTHER AWAY. UM, UM, I'M PRETTY SURE BASEBALL IS A LITTLE LOUDER THAN SKATEBOARDING. SURE. SO, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THE STIGMA THAT SKATEBOARDING HAS. I GET IT. UM, AND, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE ANYTHING HARDER FOR ANYONE. I DO. HOWEVER, WANT TO TREAT PEOPLE PER PARTICIPATING IN AN ATHLETIC EVENT, THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE. AND I DON'T WANT TO, UH, SEGREGATE THEM FROM THE ATHLETIC COMMUNITY JUST BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF SPORT THAT THEY'RE PARTICIPATING IN. YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T AGREE MORE IN THAT REGARD. THEY'RE THE FOLKS THAT WE HAVE WORKED WITH FOR MANY YEARS AND THE FOLKS THAT I POLITELY ASKED TO, UH, RELOCATE AND WAIT UNTIL SEPTEMBER WHEN IT'S OR OCTOBER WHEN IT'S OPEN, THEY HAVE BEEN LOVELY. THEY REALLY HAVE BEEN SO THAT THERE'S NO STIGMA ON THE STAFF POINT. WE, IT IT'S SOME OF THE OTHERS THAT MAY ACCOMPANY THAT PARK BEING OPEN PAST THAT TIME. THAT THAT WOULD CONCERN ME JUST LIKE ANY OTHER, REGARDLESS OF ATHLETIC OR NOT. UM, SO WE COULD CERTAINLY MAYBE ASSESS AND START AT ONE HOUR AND COLLECT DATA AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. WE'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. CHIEF BRIAN AND I TALKED ABOUT TODAY, UH, HAVE A BETTER WAY FOR OUR STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE TYPES OF THINGS ARE NOT JUST CLEANED UP AND FIXED AND NOT REPORTED ADEQUATELY. WE MAY HAVE WORK ORDERS, BUT MAYBE THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT TO THE CRIMINAL MISCHIEF FOR A REPORTED CRIME, GRAFFITI, WHATEVER. SO I JUST FEEL LIKE IF YOU TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, THEN THAT GRAFFITI OR WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT HAPPENING AT SKATE PARK IS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAYS. SO IF THERE'S LIGHTS, AT LEAST WE CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON. WELL, AND JUST ONE, ONE POINT WITH THAT, IF, IF WE'RE COMPARING BASEBALL TO SKATE AND UNDERSTAND, MY SON WAS A SKATER, HE W HE DID TOURNAMENTS. I SPENT A LOT OF MY LIFE AT SKATE PARKS, SCREAMING FOR MY SON WHO WON A LOT. UM, THE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE, THE LITTLE LEAGUE GAMES, WHICH ARE ON A SPECIFIC SCHEDULE AND WE HAVE THAT SCHEDULE AND THAT'S WHEN THE PARK IS OPEN LATER AND JUST RANDOM FREE SKATE. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TOURNAMENTS, THAT THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING. SO TOURNAMENTS, WE WOULD NEED TO LET THEM GO UNTIL THEY CAME TO THEIR CONCLUSION. BUT I DON'T SEE JUST HAVING, I DON'T SEE EQUATING FREE SKATE TO SCHEDULED BASEBALL GAMES. THOSE ARE NOT EQUIVALENT TO EACH OTHER. OH, I'M [00:20:01] S I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS EVERY DAY THAT THOSE PARKS WERE OPEN UNTIL MIDNIGHT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THERE WAS A CAVEAT FOR SPECIAL EVENTS. NO. SO TO CLARIFY, SO IN THOSE SPORTS THAT ARE, THAT ARE THOSE PARKS THAT ARE, THAT ARE 12 OR MIDNIGHT, THEY HAVE DEDICATED SPORTS FACILITIES, WHETHER IT'S BASEBALL, SOFTBALL, SOCCER, AND, OR ALL THE ABOVE. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THEY'RE THE LEAGUES THAT WE CONTRACT WITH, HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONTRACT SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. THEY GENERALLY DON'T, BUT WE DO REQUIRE THAT WE HAVE THEIR SCHEDULE. WE KNOW WHEN THEY'RE THERE, MOST YOUTH ASSOCIATIONS DO NOT ALLOW A, A, A GAME TO START PAST 9:00 PM. SO THEY'RE USUALLY DONE 10, 10 30, DEPENDING ON THE AGE DIVISION. THE ONLY ONES THAT TEND TO GO LONGER, OR ADULT, WHICH IS ADULT SOFTBALL MOSTLY, AND WHETHER OR NOT WE GET INTO AN ADULT SOCCER, UH, TYPE LEAGUE OR SOMETHING THAT MAY OCCUR AT WINNERS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THE FUTURE. SO, UM, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT. IT'S THE PRIMARY USE OF THE PARK. AND SO THEY CAN, THEY CAN DO THAT UNDER THAT CONTRACT, OR IF IT'S A RENTAL SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, RIGHT. I'D STILL LIKE TO SEE THE RECODE AND IS ON THIS LIST. AND IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS, WE CAN ALWAYS TAKE THEM OFF. UM, I MEAN, I JUST, I WOULD RATHER, I WOULD RATHER TREAT THIS PARK AS AN ATHLETIC PARK THAN A PLACE WHERE, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I UNDERSTAND THE STIGMA AROUND SKATEBOARDING, AND I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THAT YOU GUYS WANT TO DO WITH THAT PARK. I JUST REALLY WANT THESE PEOPLE TO BE TREATED EQUALLY. AND I FEEL LIKE THEY'RE NOT MOST OF THE TIME. SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THAT THAT PARK IS ADDED TO THIS LIST. IF THERE ARE ANY ISSUES, WE CAN ALWAYS TAKE IT OFF. IT'S. UM, I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S SIMPLE AS IT IS. IT IS THAT SIMPLE TO DO, OH, SOMETHING THAT'S SIMPLE FOR ME, MY BIGGER CONCERN IS ABOUT THIS DUSK OR THIS DUSK AND SUNSET ISSUE, BECAUSE DUSK IS A VERY SUBJECTIVE TERM. AND I THOUGHT, AND, AND THE POLICE ARE GONNA HAVE A HARD TIME WITH IT. AND, AND MY PROSECUTOR IS GOING TO HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME WITH PROSECUTING CASES. AND SO I WOULD PREFER WE SET A TIME CERTAIN, AND IN SUNSET, WE CAN EVEN TIE IT TO THE TIME AND DATE.COM AND THAT'S WHAT ALL THE WEATHER APPS USE FOR SUNSET. RIGHT. SO IF YOU SAY SUNSET, AND WE CAN SAY, ACCORDING TO WHATEVER SCHEDULE WE WANT TO USE, WE CAN DO THAT IN THE COORDINATES ITSELF. AND THERE, THEREFORE OUR OFFICERS CAN PULL UP ON THEIR PHONE IMMEDIATELY. OKAY. SUNSET WAS AT 8 48 TONIGHT. SO THEREFORE THE PARK CLOSED AT 9 22. IF MY MATH IS CORRECT, IT'S PROBABLY NOT NINE 18, ACTUALLY 37 TODAY. YEAH. YOU'RE SAYING SUNSET PLUS 30, I WOULD SAY SUNSET PLUS 30. OKAY. SO THAT WOULD, I BELIEVE THAT THAT WAS HOW THE PARKS BOARD ALSO CAME AROUND TO THAT SAME THING. AND CHIEF, DID YOU HAVE SAME COMMENT? AND THEN PLEASE POST IT BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING SO MANY DIFFERENT TIMES AT SO MANY DIFFERENT PARKS. IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO, TO KEEP UP WITH, I WOULD PREFER A SET TIME, BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THE, THE SUNSET, PLEASE POSTED, IF THEY WOULD QUIT CHANGING THE TIME ON US EVERY YEAR, THAT WOULD BE MUCH SIMPLER. UM, WELL COMMITTEE, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK AS FAR AS THE PRACTICALITY AND, AND ANDY, YOU AS WELL, I GUESS, ASK YOU FIRST, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PRACTICALITY OF A SET TIME, WHICH WOULD BE WAY SIMPLER FOR EVERYBODY, BUT AT LEAST HALF THE YEAR, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE PRETTY DARN DARK IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PRESERVES AND, AND OTHER TIMES WE'D BE CLOSING WHEN IT'S STILL LIGHT. SO THAT'S, I'M FINE. I, I, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN, MY CONCERN IS HOW IS THAT HANDLED, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF OUR, OUR RESPONSIBILITIES, HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE HANDLING, UH, IN A, IN A COURT. SO IF IT'S SIMPLER THAT WAY, THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO US. I THINK ALL, ALL OF THESE HAVE BEEN GREAT SUGGESTIONS AND FEEDBACK, SO WE'LL ABLE TO CARRY THEM OUT. NO PROBLEM. DAVE, DO YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION IF WE WERE TO GO WITH A SET TIME, WHAT THAT SET TIME MIGHT BE? I WOULD MAKE IT CONSISTENT WITH THE OTHER PARKS, WHETHER THAT'S 10:00 PM OR YEAH, PROBABLY 10:00 PM OR FOR, OR THE PRESERVES ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT. THEY HAVE A TRAIL SYSTEM THAT'S, THAT'S NOT EASILY ACCESSED BY THE POLICE, ESPECIALLY, UM, THERE ARE NO LIGHTS AND THERE'S MANY OF THE OTHER DEVELOPED WHAT I CALL DEVELOPED AND UNDEVELOPED PARKS ARE REALLY THE, WHAT WE WOULD DELINEATE. THE TWO, I DEFINITELY RECOGNIZE IT CREATES AN ENFORCEMENT CHALLENGE THAT THOSE TWO PARKS CREATED THE MOST CONCERN FOR US, FOR ALL THE REASONS WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN EDUCATED ON THAT WAS BECOMING A REPUTATION THAT WE ABSOLUTELY DON'T WANT. AND NOW I WILL SAY THAT THE, THE HOUR CHANGE IS NOT THE ONLY TOOL AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE. IT'S NOT THE ONLY MAGIC SOLUTION PD HAS DONE A PHENOMENAL JOB OF ADDITIONAL PATROLS. AND WE MADE USE OF THEIR CAMERA SYSTEM THERE THAT I THINK HAD A GREAT DEAL OF SUCCESS. IT'S NOT THERE ALL THE TIME. [00:25:01] SO I PUT IN THE BUDGET TO HAVE SOME THAT WILL PUT A PARKS AND REC STICKER ON INSTEAD OF POLICE, BUT IT WAS EFFECTIVE AND KUDOS TO THEM FOR, FOR WORKING WITH US ON IT. SO AGAIN, JUST ANOTHER TOOL, IT'S ONE OF THOSE PARKS THAT CONCERNS ME, THAT WE ALLOW IT TO BE ENCOURAGED TO USE IT, KNOWING THAT THERE'S NO LIGHTS AND IT'S A, IT'S A DARK, DARK FACILITY AFTER, AFTER SUNSET. SO, BUT THAT COULD BE A RABBIT TRAIL THAT GOES ON FOR DAYS. SO IF WE, SO 10 IS WELL AND TRULY DARK IN THE SUMMER, CORRECT. RIGHT. SO IF WE SAID NINE, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD SOLVE ANY OF THE PROBLEMS, CHIEF, THE PROBLEMS WE'VE BEEN HAVING OUT THERE AT THE PRESERVES. UM, DO YOU HAVE, IN YOUR MIND THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE OUT THERE ARE AS BIG A PROBLEMS DURING THE DAY AS THEY ARE DURING THE NIGHT. OKAY. UM, IT IS ALL TIMES OF THE DAY, ALL TIMES OF THE NIGHT, BECAUSE IT'S SECLUDED BECAUSE IT'S, AND THE ENFORCEMENT IS, IS JUST A BIG A PROBLEM DURING THE DAY, AS IT IS AT NIGHT. WHAT A 9:00 PM CLOSING BE OF ANY USE TO YOU FROM AN ENFORCEMENT. I MEAN, WOULD THAT BE BETTER THAN A 10, WOULD THAT MAKE IT IN ANY WAY EASIER FOR YOU TO PATROL AND, UH, IT WOULD HELP US AFTER NINE O'CLOCK? YES. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, COMMITTEE, I GUESS MY, MY THOUGHT ON THIS WOULD BE WITH THE PRESERVES INSTEAD OF GOING WITH SOMETHING THAT OUR CITY ATTORNEY IS FLAGGED IS PROBLEMATIC. UM, AND THAT OUR POLICE FORCE HAVING TO GO TO A WEBSITE. SEE, OKAY, WHAT TIME EXACTLY WAS I, I JUST, I HAVE A HARD TIME IMPOSING THAT ON THEM. UM, WHAT, WHAT THINK YOU ABOUT US SAYING WITH THE, THE TWO PRESERVES THAT WE MAKE IT A 9:00 PM CLOSING TIME, UM, AMENABLE TO THAT? UM, WHAT TIME DID THE SOCIETY FOR THE PRESERVATION FOR SPRING CREEK? UM, DID THEY GIVE A SPECIFIC TIME DUSK TILL DAWN? OH YEAH. YOU SAID THAT GIVES ME, I GUESS, BECAUSE IT WASN'T A NUMBER. IT DIDN'T STICK WITH ME, WHICH IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE ISSUE. AND WE KNEW IT WAS PROBLEMATIC, BUT AT LEAST THEIR SENTIMENT, AND IT WAS A VERY PASSIONATE PLEA THAT I FELT LIKE WE NEEDED TO TRY TO BE RESPONSIVE TO. UM, BUT AGAIN, IT'S, UH, IT'S, UH, A GROUP OF SOLUTIONS, NOT ONE MAGIC SOLUTION. SO FROM OUR STANDPOINT, I WOULD COMPLETELY DEFER TO THE ENFORCEMENT SIDE OF THESE THINGS. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO BE AT ODDS THAT WE WANT TO BE IN SYNC WITH. SO IF IT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND EMPLOYING ALL THE OTHER TOOLS HELPS US GET THERE, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE'LL KEEP DOING. WELL, THEN I WOULD SAY EIGHT FOR THE PRESERVES ONLY. I MEAN, THAT'S CLOSE ENOUGH TO DESK IN THE SUMMERTIME. IT'S WITHIN 45 MINUTES OR SO. RIGHT. IT STARTS SPLITTING THE YEAR. UM, SO, SO NINE AND EVEN 10 FEELS LIKE IT'S ALL ENCOMPASSING YOUR, YOUR, YOUR DARKEST. I MEAN, YOUR, YOUR BRIGHTEST TIME OF THE YEAR IS GOING TO BE NEXT WEEK, WHICH WOULD BE NINE SOMETHING. RIGHT? SO, UM, WHAT OUR CITY ATTORNEY GOOGLED THAT, BUT I DIDN'T CHECK IT. WE, WE CAN CERTAINLY WORK WITH WHATEVER. I FEEL LIKE TWO SIDES OF THE ISSUE, ENFORCEABILITY PROSECUTOR ABILITY AND ADDRESSING IT. MAYBE MAYBE NINE IS JUST FINE. I DON'T KNOW. PART OF THE YEAR, IT'S STILL PLENTY BLOCK BRIGHT AT EIGHT. THAT WAS MY ONLY CONCERN. BUT, UM, COUNCILMAN MOORE, I'M HEARING THREE KIND OF CATEGORIES HERE, AND I WAS PRETTY GOOD WITH THE PRESERVES NINE, 10 PRIMARILY BECAUSE IT'S 8 30, 9 O'CLOCK ANYMORE RIGHT NOW, BEFORE IT'S REALLY DARK. AND SO, UM, AGAIN, I WANT TO GIVE THEM THE AVAILABILITY. I DON'T, I DO WANT TO STAY AWAY FROM BELL, THE SUBJECTIVE, WE ARE, OUR POLICE OFFICERS ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEM WITHOUT HAVING TO JUSTIFY WHAT'S DONE WHAT'S DUSK. AND SO I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO AT LEAST DEAL WITH TIMES, BUT THE CATEGORIES THAT I'M HEARING PRESENTLY AND BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS MARGARET HAS STATED, IF IN FACT IF AN ATHLETIC FACILITY, THEN LET'S MAKE SURE OUR ATHLETIC JUST TO MAKE SURE ALL OF THOSE ARE THE SAME, IF IT'S TO PRESERVE, MAKE SURE IT'S THE SAME. AND THEN I HEARD SOMETHING THERE. WE'VE GOT SOME OTHER, UH, THAT THIRD CATEGORY WHERE THEY NEED TO CLOSE IT AND LET'S MAKE SURE THAT THOSE THREE CATEGORIES WHERE WE'RE CONSISTENT WITH THEM. AND LET'S DO PUT TIMES ON THEM. 10 O'CLOCK WAS OKAY WITH ME AS FAR AS, UH, THE PRESERVE WAS CONCERNED. UH, YEAH, IT IS DARK, BUT THAT'S GOING TO GIVE THEM A FULL AVAILABILITY [00:30:01] OF USE OF THE PARK. THE 12 O'CLOCK WAS OKAY WITH ME, AS FAR AS YOUR ATHLETICS, AS SOFTBALL AND SKATING AND THINGS. I'M OKAY THERE. BECAUSE AGAIN, WE'RE ONLY REALLY GOING TO REALLY GO AND ENFORCE SOMETHING WHEN, WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM, IF, IF, IF THERE'S A COMPLAINT OR WHATEVER WE'RE GOING TO DO. AND THEN THE OTHER THING IS WE HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO ASSESS. IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT, WE'D GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND WE MAKE THE CHANGE. SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I AM PRESENT. ANDY, JUST FOR, FOR CLARITY WITH THE ATHLETIC COMPLEXES, UM, CENTRAL PARK BASEBALL BEING ON THIS LIST DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE ENTIRE CENTRAL PARK WILL BE OPEN TILL MIDNIGHT. IS THAT CORRECT? OR NO, IT IS THE ENTIRE PARK. IT, IT WOULD BE VERY PROBLEMATIC. I THINK THE TRY TO DIVIDE IT. YEP. OKAY. YEP. ALL RIGHT. UM, THEN IN THAT CASE WITH, UH, WITH RICK ODIN, HAVING A LARGE ATHLETIC FACILITY, I WOULD AGREE THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE ON THIS LIST AND CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN WE COME TO IT. THAT'S GREAT. OKAY. SO BRINGING THIS HOME, SO WE'RE NOT HERE UNTIL WE'RE ALL MY AGE, UM, GOING DOWN THE, THE LIST, IF WE, UM, COMMITTEE, ARE WE AGREED, UM, WITH THE GOING TO YOUR PAPER HERE, SECTION 25, 15 PARK HOURS, UM, THE SECTION A, ARE WE GOOD WITH 5:00 AM UNTIL 10:00 PM WITH SECTION A, CAN WE DO 11? IS THAT TOO LATE? DON'T WANT TO DO 11. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S UP TO COMMITTEE VOTE. SO THESE, THESE ARE BASICALLY REFERRING TO UNLIT PARKS, POCKET PARKS, ESPECIALLY IN NEIGHBORHOODS, WHAT THEY ARE, NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS, UM, AND CAN BE, LET ME REFRESH MY MEMORY WHEN WE, YEAH. SO, SO THESE THAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT HERE ARE, CAN BE MULTIPLE CATEGORIES. SOME OF THOSE ARE NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS, SOME OF THOSE ARE COMMUNITY, BUT BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT ATHLETIC FACILITIES, THEY FALL INTO THIS. SO ANY OTHER CATEGORY REGARDLESS IS, IS GONNA FALL INTO THAT 10:00 PM. SO THE EXCEPTIONS THEN BECOME ATHLETIC FACILITIES AND THE TWO PRESERVES, EVERYTHING ELSE, REGARDLESS OF CATEGORY IS GOING TO BE 10:00 PM. I MEAN, ON A SATURDAY NIGHT THERE THAT'S, THAT'S EARLY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, IF THEY'RE HAVING A FAMILY FUNCTION AND USING THE GRILLS OUT THERE. AND I MEAN THAT, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT PEOPLE ARE DOING SOMETHING BAD IF THEY'RE THERE LATE AT NIGHT AT A PARK. WELL, NAUGHTY, WELL, I'M NOT 11 COUNCIL. WELL, WE WENT ROUND THIS AND I THOUGHT WE ALL LANDED ON SAYING THAT AFTER THE CHIEF'S COMMENTS, I THOUGHT WE ALL SAID, WE'RE OKAY WITH 10. SO, SORRY, I'M REWINDING AGAIN. IF WE'RE GOING TO RE ARGUE IT, THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT IT. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CHIEF'S COMMENTS WERE WHEN ASKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 10 AND 11, WAS THAT THE LATER IT GETS IN THE NIGHT, THE MORE PROBLEMS THERE ARE, AND HIS PREFERENCE, I BELIEVE ENDED UP BEING 10. UM, I'M GOOD WITH EITHER GOOD WITH EITHER, OKAY, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO MAKE OR BREAK US. RIGHT. SO I'M GOOD WITH WHATEVER THE COMMITTEE DECISION, RIGHT. SO, UM, LET ME JUST PUT THIS OUT HERE COMMITTEE, ARE YOU HAPPIER WITH FOUR? AND AGAIN, THIS IS NOT THE ATHLETIC PRESERVE, THE ATHLETIC FACILITIES. THIS IS NOT THE TWO PRESERVES. ARE YOU HAPPIER WITH HAVING THE, UM, THE REST OF THE PARKS BE OPEN AGAIN? LET'S START WITH 5:00 AM. HOW MANY IN FAVOR OF 5:00 AM OPENING WITH PARKS? OKAY. SO WE GOT THAT AND CLOSING TIME VERSUS 11, 10 VERSUS 11. SO LET'S DO TEN FIRST, SINCE THAT WAS FIRST DISCUSSED, WHO IS IN FAVOR OF CLOSING AT 10. AND AGAIN, THAT WAS THE RECOMMENDATION FROM PARKS. UM, CAN I, IF CONGRESS DISCUSSION ANDY JEFF, IS THAT YOUR PREFERENCE? 10 O'CLOCK AND THE CLOCK OR 11 O'CLOCK. I HONESTLY DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE. IT LATER WE GET THE MORE ISSUES WE'D GET. UM, CERTAINLY THERE'S PEOPLE BETWEEN 10 AND 11 ENJOYING THE PARK. AND CERTAINLY WE HAVE KIDS HANGING OUT CAUSING PROBLEMS BETWEEN 10 AND 11. SO, UM, I DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. ANDY MAY HAVE A PREFERENCE FROM THE PARKS STANDPOINT. SO I WOULD, I WOULD ECHO AT 10, 10:00 PM IS MY PREFERENCE. [00:35:02] I WOULD, AND I'M GOING TO, I'M GOING TO PROBABLY STRADDLE THE FENCE FOR A MINUTE AND BE BETTER THAN I JUST DID. I'M GOING TO GIVE A REASON. SO, AND, AND AGAIN, I FEEL THAT THIS, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DIALOGUE BECAUSE YES, WE ABSOLUTELY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, THAT THE TAXPAYERS ARE ABLE TO ENJOY THEIR ASSETS AND THE RESOURCES THAT THEY'RE PAYING FOR. AND THAT ARE BEING MAINTAINED. HAVING SAID THAT BEING THE STEWARDS OF THOSE RESOURCES AND OUR EXPERIENCE IS BEN, ALBEIT MAYBE AFTER 27 YEARS, YOU GET NOT CYNICAL YET, BUT YOU GET REALITY. REALITY REPEATS ITSELF TO THE POINT WHERE WHEN WE, OUR STAFF IS, IS SPENDING AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF THEIR TIME CLEANING UP. OUR EXPERIENCE TENDS TO BE THAT AS THINGS PROGRESS PAST 10:00 PM, THE USE BECOMES LESS AND LESS CONSISTENT WITH LEGITIMATE PARK USE. THAT SOUNDED LITIGIOUS. DIDN'T IT READY FOR A LONG TIRING? IT'S VERY FAIR. THAT'S VERY WELL SAID. AND THAT'S LIKE, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IT. IF WE TRY ALL THIS AND WE FIND IT'S CHAFING AND RESTRICTIVE, UM, THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT ANY, ANYTHING WE DO THAT SET IN STONE AND THAT CAN'T BE LATER REVISITED AND CORRECTED. SO, UM, SO WE'VE GOT 5:00 AM. IT'S A UNANIMOUS APPROVAL. UM, LET'S START WITH CLOSING AT 10:00 PM WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ATHLETIC FACILITIES AND THE TWO PRESERVES I'M IN FAVOR OF 10. OKAY. WELL THEN THERE WE GO. WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THIS A TRY AND WE'LL ALSO PRESENT TO COUNCIL AND SEE HOW THE WHOLE BODY FEELS. ALL RIGHT. TO RECAP. THE PRESERVE WAS 5 82. WELL, THAT'S NEXT? I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. UH, SO THAT'S, UH, SECTION D THE BELOW LISTED PARK SHALL BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. AND I THINK WE WANT TO MAKE THIS FIVE, EIGHT FOR CONSISTENCY. IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECTLY? OKAY. SO WE'RE SAYING 5:00 AM LIKE THE OTHER PARKS UNTIL, AND INSTEAD OF 30 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET, UM, LET'S START, WE'LL START WITH, UH, COUNCIL, LADY LUCKS RECOMMENDATION OF EIGHT, AND THEN WE'LL GO TO NINE AND THEN WE PUT IT DOWN AND WE'LL SEE WHICH ONE? I THINK WE CAN SKIP THE EIGHT. OKAY. I DON'T THINK ANYONE ELSE'S. YEAH. OKAY. SO LET'S JUST START WITH 9:00 PM. WHO ON THE COMMITTEE WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF CLOSING THE PRESERVES AT 9:00 PM. 5:00 AM TO 9:00 PM RELATING ON, YOU KNOW, OKAY. UM, WHO WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF WAITING TILL 10:00 PM? I MEAN, I'M FINE WITH THAT TIME TOO. CAN I VOTE TWICE? NOT USUALLY, BUT WHY NOT? UM, OKAY. EITHER TIME. THAT'S YEAH. AND THAT'S FINE. ALL RIGHT. WELL, THIS IS ALSO ADJUSTABLE LESS, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE 10, UM, LIKE CONSISTENT WITH THE OTHER PARKS. WE'LL DO THAT. AND JUST AGAIN, COME BACK AND REVISIT IF IT COMES TO THAT, ANDY, AM I GIVING YOU WHAT YOU NEED? THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY. AND FINALLY, SECTION 25, 15 SECTION E, WE ARE SAYING, ADD RICK ODIN TO THE ATHLETIC COMPLEX LIST. RIGHT. GOT IT. AND, UM, WHICH WOULD SAY THEIR ATHLETIC COMPLEXES AND THEIR RESPECTIVE PARKING LOTS SHALL BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. WE'RE STAYING 5:00 AM. 5:00 AM, COUNCILMAN MOORE. OKAY. AND NOW IN THOSE CASES, THOSE WOULD BE TILL MIDNIGHT. ALL GOOD. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU, CHIEF. ALL RIGHT. NOW THIS NEXT ONE IS GOING TO BE THE OPENING SHOT. WE ARE NOT, UM, HAVING, UH, ANY KIND OF A CHANCE OF GETTING TO A CONCLUSION ON THIS. UM, MR. ENGLAND, ARE YOU GOING TO BE THE ONE SPEAKING TO THIS? IS SOMEBODY ELSE HERE TO SPEAK TO THIS? UM, HMM. OKAY. UH, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COME TAKE A SEAT AT THE MICROPHONES. SO, UM, ITEM THREE IS DISCUSSED RENTAL PROPERTY PROGRAMS AND SHORT-TERM RENTAL POLICY. THANK YOU, SIR. AND COMMITTEE, JUST SO YOU'LL KNOW, THE, THESE ARE DISCUSSING TWO EXISTING POLICIES THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, THE, THE NEED FOR AMENDMENTS. UM, SO RENTAL PROPERTY PROGRAMS, UM, YOU KNOW, GARLAND HAS A RENTAL REGISTRATION PROGRAM. UM, IT'S, IT'S FAIRLY BENIGN. IT'S ONE THAT A LOT OF OTHER CITIES HAVE ACTUALLY, UM, IMITATED BECAUSE THIS STARTED OUT YEARS AGO AS BEING A VERY RIGID AND FAIRLY ABUSIVE PROGRAM. AND IT GOT [00:40:01] ROLLED BACK INTO A FAIRLY USER-FRIENDLY, UM, PROGRAM THAT'S BEEN OPERATING. HOWEVER, UM, WE HAVE FOUND SOME HOLES IN THIS PROGRAM AND THESE, SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE THINGS THAT I POINTED OUT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT SOME IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE SEEN THEM IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CITY. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS WITH OUR RENTAL REGISTRATION. UM, THERE ARE SOME HOUSES, UM, WHERE THE OWNER CLAIMS TO BE RENTING TO OWN CLAIMS, TO BE SELLING THE HOUSE. AND THEY'RE FOR DODGING OUR REGISTRATION AND INSPECTION, UM, REQUIREMENTS ONLY. THIS IS A SCAM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EVER THAT THE TITLE NEVER CHANGES HANDS. OKAY. AND WE DON'T HAVE, THAT'S AN OPEN DOOR IN OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE. I, I BELIEVE I'M LOOKING AT MR. ENGLAND. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO CATCH THAT RIGHT NOW. I BELIEVE. UM, WE DO NOT. UM, BUT WE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE FIXED. UM, WHEN YOU CAN TIE THAT TO, UM, THE, THE DEED AND DEED OF TRUST WHO'S EVER ON THE NAME OF THE DEED THAT'S BEEN, UM, FILED WITH THE COUNTY RECORDED WITH THE COUNTY. AND IF SOMEONE ELSE IS LIVING IN THAT PROPERTY, UM, AND THEIR NAME DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE DEED, THEN IT'S BEEN FILED WITH THE COUNTY. THEN, UM, WE CAN CONSIDER, WE CAN, WE CAN BRING THAT INTO A RENTAL PROPERTY DEFINITION. OKAY. UM, AND THERE, THERE ARE A COUPLE OTHER THINGS THAT DID YOU WANT TO GO THE, THE SPECIFICS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP, ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO THAT? NO, MA'AM OKAY. UM, ALL RIGHT. AND WAS SHORT-TERM RENTAL PROCESS, UH, POLICY, THIS, THIS IS AIRBNB TYPE THINGS, AND WE PASSED THE POLICY FOR THIS SEVERAL YEARS, TWO YEARS AGO, THREE YEARS AGO. UM, AND IT, IT, AGAIN, IT WAS A VERY LIGHT TOUCH BECAUSE THE STATE OF TEXAS IS IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING IT, UM, WELL, THEY'RE ANGLING MORE AND MORE TOWARD NOT ALLOWING US TO DO ANY REGULATIONS ON SHORT TERM RENTALS. UM, RIGHT NOW WE CAN DO LIGHT ONES. SO WHAT WE DID, UM, THE ORDINANCE THAT WE PASSED FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS WAS ESSENTIALLY TO, UM, IT, IT WENT UNDER THE HOTEL MOTEL CATEGORY. THIS HAS CAUSED US SOME PROBLEMS, TWO AREAS. UM, WE HAVE SEVERAL, UH, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, ONE OF THEM IN MY DISTRICT, IN A HOA WHERE YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD HAVE MORE CONTROL, BUT THEY DON'T. UM, AND THEY ARE OPENLY ADVERTISING A FOUR BEDROOM, TWO BATH HOUSE AS BEING AVAILABLE FOR AT LEAST 20 PEOPLE. CONTRACTORS ARE ALL COMING IN, THEY'RE ALL LIVING THERE. AND BECAUSE IT'S UNDER HOTEL MOTEL, WE DON'T HAVE ANY OCCUPANCY LIMITS. AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY, UM, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO. PARKING MARSHALS CAN GO OUT THERE IF PEOPLE ARE ILLEGALLY PARKED, BUT THIS IS, UH, THIS IS CAUSING CRIES OF DISTRESS IN A NUMBER OF NEIGHBORHOODS. AND THEY'RE MOSTLY NICE NEIGHBORHOODS. UM, BUT THESE HOUSES ARE BEING USED, UH, FOR, UM, MASS HOUSING INAPPROPRIATELY. I FEEL FOR THAT. AND WE HAVE ALSO DISCOVERED IN SEVERAL CASES, WHEN YOU LOOK THEM UP ON D CAD THAT, UM, THESE HOUSES, THESE SHORT-TERM RENTAL HOMES ARE ACTUALLY, UM, THE OWNERS HAVE THEM LISTED FOR HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION AS THOUGH THEY ARE LIVING THERE, INSTEAD OF IT BEING, UH, UM, CONSIDERED A, UH, A BUSINESS PROPERTY. AND THAT WAS ONE THING. UM, MR. AND CAN YOU TAKE A MOMENT AND JUST ADDRESS THAT, THE CATEGORY THAT HOMES, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES BEING USED FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS, UM, WHAT ARE THE LEGALITIES, AS FAR AS THE STATE GOES WITH US, TRYING TO CLASSIFY THEM AS PLACES OF BUSINESS? I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO DO THAT TO REGULATE THEM. WE WOULDN'T HAVE OUR REGULATION. WOULDN'T DEPEND ON THE CLASSIFICATION. OKAY. UM, CURRENTLY WE HAVE FOUR OR FIVE LAWSUITS THAT ARE ACTIVE IN TEXAS, AMONGST SEVERAL CITIES, INCLUDING AUSTIN, GRAPEVINE, UM, IRVING, AND THERE'S ONE OTHER NUMBER, BUT MAYBE FORT WORTH, UH, AND THE ISSUES THERE ARE AND WHERE THE COURTS HAVE KIND OF SORTED OUT THE CASES IS THAT CITIES, IT APPEARS TO THIS POINT CAN REGULATE STR SHORT-TERM RENTALS, BUT THEY CANNOT DO A DIRECT BAND ON THEM. WE HAVE A CASE, THE OLDEST CASE IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA, AS THE CASE OUT OF AUSTIN, AND JUST ACTUALLY HAD TO DEAL WITH THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, BUT IT APPLIED TO CITIES AS WELL, JUST IN TERMS OF WHERE THE SUPREME COURT, UM, WHERE THEY STOOD ON PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE RIGHT TO LEASE YOUR PROPERTY THAT YOU OWN. THE SUPREME COURT CONSIDERS THAT A FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT IN TEXAS, THAT, THAT IF YOU OWN PROPERTY, YOU HAVE A RIGHT [00:45:01] TO LEASE IT. NOW WHAT THE COURT DIDN'T ADDRESS IS HOW MUCH TO WHAT EXTENT CAN A CITY OR A LOCAL GOVERNMENT REGULATE, UH, SHORT TERM LEASES, SHORT TERM RENTALS, WHEN YOU DO CHOOSE TO LEASE YOUR PROPERTY. AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE, AT LEAST THE APPELLATE COURTS, THE INTERMEDIATE COURTS ARE SORTING OUT TO SAY, OKAY, CITIES CAN USE REASONABLE REGULATIONS. WE'RE NOT QUITE CERTAIN WHERE THAT IS YET, BUT WE KNOW THAT WE CAN REGULATE AND CITIES ARE CHOOSING TO DO THAT MORE AND MORE. YOU JUST CAN'T HAVE AN OUTRIGHT BAN ON THEM. SO WHAT I DUSTED OFF WAS A OLD ORDINANCE THAT I DRAFTED PROBABLY ORIGINALLY IN 20 15, 20 16, AND IT GOT BROUGHT BACK IN 2017, AND THEN IT GOT BROUGHT BACK AGAIN IN 2019. SO I BRING IT TO YOU ONCE AGAIN, IN 2022. UM, UM, AND YOU'LL SEE WITH SOME MINOR CHANGES BASED ON WHAT SOME COURTS HAVE SAID, BUT I JUST DID THAT FOR Y'ALL TO TAKE HOME AND LOOK AT IT BECAUSE IN THAT DRAFT ORDINANCE, YOU'LL SEE SEVERAL CATEGORIES, SEVERAL WAYS IN WHICH WE COULD REGULATE, CONSIDERED A MENU. YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHICH WAYS YOU WANT TO REGULATE THESE SHORT TERM RENTALS. AND THERE ARE SEVERAL OPTIONS IN THERE. AND, AND QUITE FRANKLY, PREVIOUS COUNCILS, UM, HAVEN'T HAD THE APPETITE TO DO IT. THEY RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM, BUT THEY HAVEN'T HAD THE TIME TO ACTUALLY, UH, ADOPT THE REGULATIONS AND FOR GOOD REASONS. AND I'M NOT BEING CRITICAL OR PREVIOUS COUNCILS AT ALL, AS FAR AS, UM, THE CLASSIFICATION OF THE EAVES. IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER UNDER, UNDER CURRENT TEXAS LAW, WHETHER WE DECIDE TO CLASSIFY THEM AS A BUSINESS OR A RESIDENTIAL USE, THE SUPREME COURT INDICATES THAT THESE ARE SO CLOSE TO RESIDENTIAL USES THAT YOU CAN'T ZONE THEM OUT AS COMMERCIAL USES. UM, THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME INDICATION THERE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS. I THINK WE CAN REGULATE THEM AS LONG AS WE AREN'T TRYING TO OUTRIGHT BAN THEM. OKAY. COUNCILMAN MOORE, AS A LATE CALMER TO THIS CONVERSATION. UM, THE QUESTION THAT COMES TO MIND FOR ME IS, UH, AND I'M, I'M SURE THAT QUIETER, WE WANT TO REGULATE IT NOW. OF COURSE, IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE NEIGHBORS, OF COURSE DON'T WANT ALL THAT TRAFFIC AND PEOPLE LIVING OR COMING IN THAT THEY DON'T KNOW. BUT, UM, I GUESS WHAT I'M FINDING IS, AS PEOPLE ARE GETTING OLDER, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WITH, UH, LARGE HOMES, MATTER OF FACT, EASTERN HILLS JUST HAD ONE OF THESE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW IT, BUT EASTERN HILLS JUST HAD A, A BNB WHERE THERE WAS A WEDDING. AND, UH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT, HONESTLY, BUT BACK TO WHAT, AS I'M GETTING OLDER, IT SEEMS THAT THEY ARE SUPPLEMENTING INCOME. THEY'RE GOING INTO BUSINESS OR DOING DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS IN ORDER TO, UH, UTILIZE OFF. NOW, THEY'RE HOME ALONE. THEY'RE NOT BURIED ANYMORE. UH, AND SO DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, WHEN THEY HAVE SOMEONE TO COME IN AND LEASE THE PROPERTY OUT, THEY GO AND DO WHATEVER THEY NEED TO DO, OR THEY JUST DON'T LIVE THERE AT ALL. AND SO I GUESS I'M, I'M LOOKING NOW FOR TELL ME WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE WITH IT FIRST, AND THEN WE CAN, WE CAN KIND OF, UH, FOR, FOR ME ANYWAY, JUST A HISTORY ON WHY THAT USAGE I'VE, I'VE ASKED THE CHIEF TO STAY FOR THIS, FOR THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE, WHAT I'VE SEEN ANECDOTALLY, AND NOT AS A PRACTITIONER OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHAT I'VE SEEN IS THAT BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SOME CHANGES IN THE MARKET AND SOME CHANGES WITH BOTH AIRBNB AND WITH, UM, VRVO WHERE THEY'RE NO LONGER ALLOWING PARTIES. I THINK IT'S HAD SOME IMPACT, UM, WITH OUR POLICE CALLS. YEAH. HISTORICALLY, IF YOU WERE TO ASK THAT QUESTION, IT WAS A HUGE PROBLEM IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND IT WAS ESPECIALLY AT HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION TIME, IMAGINE HAVING A HIGH SCHOOL PARTY NEXT TO YOUR HOUSE EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. AND WE HAD THAT, UH, AND SEVERAL NEIGHBORHOODS, THE NEIGHBORHOODS WERE JUST IN AN UPROAR AND IT WAS GETTING OUT OF CONTROL. I MEAN, IT WAS TO THE POINT I CAME TO THE CITY ATTORNEYS AND LIKE, I NEED AN ORDINANCE. I NEED SOMETHING TO CHANGE. UM, BUT LATELY SOMETHING HAS CHANGED AND I THINK SOMETHING HAS CHANGED WITH BOTH COMPANIES. WE ARE NOT SEEING THE BIG PARTIES THAT WE USED TO SEE. NOW THERE ARE ONE-OFFS, THERE ARE INCIDENTS THAT OCCUR, BUT THE HOUSES THAT HAVE PARTY AFTER PARTY, AFTER PARTY, SOMETHING HAS CHANGED WITH THE AIRBNB AND WITH, UM, UH, BRBO THAT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWING THAT, UH, SO THEY'RE CLAMPING DOWN. SO WE STILL SEE ISSUES JUST, AND THERE'S ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY CAN COME BACK. BUT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WE WERE, WE WERE LOOKING FOR HELP. [00:50:01] NO, I GUESS I'M, I'M RAISING THAT BECAUSE, UH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PROBABLY FINE THAT I TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. I TRY TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON. AND I ASKED THE QUESTION, OFTENTIMES WHEN THESE SITUATIONS COME, YOU KNOW, UH, WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT BECAUSE IF WE START THERE, THAT GIVES ME THE HISTORY, IT GIVES ME. AND THEN I CAN KIND OF, WHEN I'M TALKING TO A CONSTITUENT, I CAN SAY, THIS IS PROBLEM WITH IT FOR THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION. AND YOU DIDN'T GET ANY CALLS ABOUT THAT WEDDING LAST WEEKEND. DID YOU? I DON'T KNOW, PROBABLY NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT YET, BUT, UH, FROM, BASED ON WHAT I SAW THERE WAS, UM, 30, 40 PEOPLE THERE, BUT IT WAS JUST A RECEPTION SITUATION WHERE THEY, THEY USED THE HOME THERE IN EASTERN HILLS. AND, BUT NOW YOU CAN ALSO HAVE THE SITUATION, AS YOU'VE JUST STATED, THOUGH, WHERE YOU GOT THE HIGH SCHOOL KIDS WHO ARE HAVING A GREAT TIME. AND NOW WHO, WHO WANTS THAT? I WOULDN'T WANT IT NEXT DOOR TO ME, BUT PERSONALLY I'M ACTUALLY LOOKING AT IT ON MY OWN HOME. I'VE GOT A HOME THAT'S 40 2040 200 SQUARE FEET. IT'S FOUR BEDROOM THAT'S BOUGHT. AND HONESTLY WE DON'T EVEN GO UPSTAIRS ANYMORE. AND I'M TALKING TO MY, MY GRANDSONS AND MY GREAT GRANDSONS AND THEY'RE TALKING TO BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO I THINK AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, AS WE GO THROUGH IT, THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY GOOD LEARNING PROCESS FOR ME TOO, IN THAT IT'LL HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE SHOULDN'T DO IT, OR MAYBE WE MAY EVEN COME TO A POINT THAT, YEAH, WE SHOULD DO IT. WE NEED TO REGULATE IT IN SUCH A FASHION THAT THE PROBLEMS ARE NOT THERE. AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY TAKE. AND I'M SURE YOU GUYS CAN GIVE ME A LOT MORE IN THE WAY I DO. I ACTUALLY SPOKE WITH A FRIEND THAT LIVES IN THE, THE TOWN GATE, UM, CONDO RESIDENTIAL AREA, RIGHT AT 6 35 AND CENTERVILLE. UM, THEY HAVE A CLUBHOUSE AND A POOL AND IT'S MOSTLY TOWNHOMES. THERE ARE SOME, UH, DUPLEXES THERE AS WELL. SO THEIR BIG PROBLEM IS THAT THEY CAN'T REGULATE SHORT-TERM RENTALS BECAUSE IT'S SO DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO CHANGE THE BYLAWS IN THEIR HOA. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE PROBLEM THAT HOS HAVE WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS. AND, AND REALLY, I THINK IT'S UP TO THEM WHETHER OR NOT THEY SHOULD HAVE THEM IN THEIR, THEIR, UM, NEIGHBORHOODS OR NOT, BUT RIGHT. SO, UM, BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTY THEY'RE HAVING REGULATING THEM WITHIN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE US TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM TO KIND OF MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES REGARDING SHORT-TERM RENTALS. AND ALSO I THINK THAT PARKING, UM, NEEDS TO BE A CONSIDERATION AS WELL. IF YOU HAVE A, UH, A HOME, IF YOU WANT TO RENT YOUR HOME OUT FOR A WEEKEND, JUST MAKE SURE THERE AREN'T 20 CARS COMING IN AT THE SAME TIME. SO MAYBE A LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF AUTOMOBILES THAT CAN BE THERE. AND, UM, DEFINITELY, UM, YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE NOISE ORDINANCES, AND IN CASES AS SUCH AS A WEDDING, UM, MAYBE A SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT WOULD BE USEFUL BECAUSE AREN'T THOSE SUPPOSED TO AREN'T YOU SUPPOSED TO HAVE THOSE FOR EVEN BIRTHDAY PARTIES? WELL, NO, I THINK IT'S A HUNDRED PACIFIC TIME. YEAH. AND, AND FOR ME, I HAVE A VERY LARGE FAMILY. UH, IF YOU COME TO MY HOUSE ON THANKSGIVING, UH, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE PROBABLY A 50, 60. OKAY. BUT WHAT WE DO THOUGH, WE GO TO THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS AND WE TALK AND WE LET THEM KNOW, AND THEY DO THE SAME THING WITH US. SO I DON'T SEE IT BEING ANY DIFFERENT, I GUESS, THAN A SITUATION SIMILAR TO THAT. BUT OF COURSE, ANYTIME YOU GET INTO COMMERCIALISM INTO YOU GET A BUSINESS YEAH. EVERYTHING THAT DYNAMICS CHANGE. SO AGAIN, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS. DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? UM, I DO. NOT JUST THAT, OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW THAT PARKING IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM IN TRYING TO REGULATE PARKING. THERE IS A, A AS YOU, AS YOU TAKE THE DRAFT ORDINANCE HOME, YOU CAN LOOK, THERE IS A PARKING PROVISION IN THERE. UM, COUNCIL DIDN'T LOCK IT LAST TIME BECAUSE IT WILL, IT, IT, NUMBER ONE, IT'S DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE. IT'S GONNA REQUIRE REALLY MUCH LIKE PARK TIMES. IT'S REALLY MORE OF A TOOL IF WE HAVE A PROBLEM LOCATION AND WE DECIDE TO DEDICATE A LOT OF RESOURCES TO ONE PARTICULAR LOCATION, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A PROBLEM LOCATION. IT GIVES US A TOOL TO USE, BUT IT WOULD REQUIRE QUITE A BIT OF RESOURCES TO ENFORCE ANY KIND OF OFF STREET PARKING FOR AIRBNBS OR VRB OWES. IT'S JUST A DIFFICULT PRICE, AS WE ALL KNOW, PARKING IN NEIGHBORHOODS, DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE. WELL, I THINK THIS COMES DOWN TO AGAIN, A COMPLAINT [00:55:01] DRIVEN SITUATION. YEAH. AND IT, AND AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE TOOLS TO, YOU KNOW, RESPOND TO THOSE COMPLAINTS, AT LEAST YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU CAN WORK WITH RATHER THAN, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY RULES GOVERNING THIS. SO GO AHEAD. YEAH. WELL, I WILL JUST SAY RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS TO TAKE CARE OF THE COMPLAINTS. WE JUST DON'T HAVE THEM. AND EVEN THOUGH AIRBNB AND BRBO HAVE CHANGED THEIR RULES, THEY AREN'T THE ONLY GROUPS OUT THERE RENTING HOUSES. AND THAT'S A PROBLEM. THERE ARE A LOT OF LESS BRAND NAME, UM, PLACES, THE INTERNET, THE WILD WEST, AND THEY ARE PUTTING THEM OUT THERE. UM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, I, I FORGET THE NAME OF THE COMPANY. THAT'S RENTING THIS ONE, THAT'S CAUSED SO MANY COMPLAINTS, UM, IN THE EASTERN PART OF MY DISTRICT, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE KIND OF A NO NAME, UM, SHORT-TERM RENTAL PLACE, BUT THEY HAVE A BIG AD SHOWING THE HOUSE. THAT'S IT'S LANDLORDS WHO HAVE MOVED AWAY AND THEY'RE JUST TAKING IN MONEY. UM, AND ARE THEY GOING AROUND TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS SAYING, CAN 20 PARK TRUCKS PARK HERE EVERY NIGHT? NO, THEY'RE NOT BEING, THEY'RE BEING BAD NEIGHBORS OR WHO, THEY'RE NOT NEIGHBORS ANYMORE. THEY'RE THEY'RE BAD LANDLORDS. SO, UM, I'M JUST LOOKING AT THIS LAST COMPLAINT, UM, FROM, FROM THE HOA THAT SAID THE LAST TWO DAYS, AT LEAST FIVE FULL TRUCK, LOADS OF CONSTRUCTION WORKERS HAD BEEN LIVING AT THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, 20 TO TWENTY-FIVE PEOPLE GO INTO THE HOUSE EACH NIGHT. UM, THEY MAKE NOISE, THEY PARK OUT THE STREET. UM, YOU KNOW, HOW IS IT THAT NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS? SO THEY CALLED CODE COMPLIANCE AND CODE REPORTED BACK. THERE ARE NO OCCUPANCY LIMITS FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS. THAT, TO ME, THAT'S ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE FIRST ISSUES. HOW, HOW CAN WE, CAN WE PUT OCCUPANCY LIMITS? YOU LOOK AT YOUR GRAFT ORDINANCE THAN I DID SINCE 2015 OCCUPANCY LIMITS. SO THAT WENT BACK TO THAT JUST CAUSE YOU DON'T. YEAH, NO. WELL, AND IT'S, IT'S GOOD. AND IT MAY BE THAT IT'S TIME HAS COME BECAUSE WE'VE, UH, I THINK JUST MOST DISTRICTS AROUND THE CITY HAVE ENDED UP HAVING COMPLAINTS ABOUT PARTY HOUSES OR JUST, UH, HOUSES LIKE, LIKE THIS ONE. SO, UM, YEAH, LIMITING PARKING. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WILL EXPLORE AS WE MOVE FORWARD. UM, YEAH. AND ESPECIALLY EVENTS. THIS IS ONE OF THE NUANCES. SO AM I ALLOWED TO HAVE A WEDDING AT MY HOUSE AND INVITE TONS OF PEOPLE? YEAH, I AM. AND MY NEIGHBORS WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT BECAUSE I WOULD DO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. BUT IF I HAVE A WEDDING PRETTY MUCH EVERY WEEKEND, OR IF I TURN MY HOUSE OVER TO CONSTRUCTION CREWS, RANDOM STRANGERS IN AND OUT, AND THEY COME WHILE THEY'RE WORKING, THAT BECOMES A PROBLEM FOR MY NEIGHBORS. AND IT'S A LEGIT, IT'S A LEGIT PROBLEM, UM, THAT PEOPLE DON'T GO INTO NEIGHBORHOODS EXPECTING THAT. AND WHEN I LOOK AT THE CONTRAST THAT WITH OUR HOME OCCUPATION RULES, YOU KNOW, WE SAY WITH HOME OCCUPATION RULES, IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK AND QUACKS LIKE A DUCK, THEN FLIES LIKE A DUCK, WE SAY IT'S A DUCK, IT'S A BUSINESS. SO WITH THESE HOMES, IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WORK WITH SYMPTOMS. DO THEY, ARE THEY USING POWER TOOLS THAT MAKE DISTURBING NOISES HAS, HAS, HAS THE HOME BUSINESS INCREASED TRAFFIC TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, DOESN'T NECESSARILY SAY THAT IT HAS TO INCREASE PARKING, BUT TRAFFIC MOVING IN AND OUTGOING TO A CERTAIN HOUSE TO BUY, SELL, TRADE, DROP OFF, WHATEVER ARE THERE CHEMICAL SMELLS, UM, FROM WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY'RE DOING THERE. AND ALL THESE THINGS CAME BECAUSE OF ACTUAL, UGLY EXPERIENCES, DIFFERENT COUNCIL MEMBERS, ONE IN YOUR DISTRICT CABINET MAKER, UM, UH, THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED AND TRIED TO CLOSE, CLOSE THE DOOR. SO THE BIG QUESTION IS, UH, HOW CAN WE BEST, UM, START LOOKING AT REGULATING THESE MR. ENGLAND? DO YOU WANT TO JUST QUICKLY WALK US THROUGH YOUR DRAFT? I CAN'T. ALL RIGHT. I THINK, AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO RESOLVE THIS TODAY, BUT I WANT TO AT LEAST GET EVERYBODY ON THE SAME PAGE AND LET US SEE WHERE THE, UH, WHERE THE MAJOR POTHOLES ARE LEGALLY THAT WE'RE APT TO FALL INTO. AS WE TRY TO FIND SOLUTIONS, THERE'S TWO SETS. THERE'S TWO CHAPTERS OF THE CODE THAT NEED TO BE AMENDED. IF WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS SHORT TERM RENTALS, ONE IS CHAPTER 32 AND THEN ALSO THE OTHER ONE IS CHAPTER 26. AND CHAPTER 32 IS OF COURSE THE, UH, SINGLE FAMILY RENTAL PERMIT. IT'S WHY IT'S, IT'S PULLING SHORT-TERM RENTALS INTO THE DEFINITION AND INTO THE REGULATIONS, [01:00:01] THE SCHEME THAT'S ALREADY PRESENT FOR ANY SINGLE FAMILY RENTAL THAT THAT HAPPENS, WHETHER IT'S LONG TERM OR SHORT, SHORT TERM. SO YOU SEE THE DEFINITION OF SHORT TERM RENTALS, AND THAT DEFINITION HAS BEEN USED BY SEVERAL CITIES. AND SO THAT WAS, I BELIEVE AT THE TIME COPIED FROM EITHER AUSTIN OR SOMEWHERE. I MEAN, IT'S FOR RENTALS. THE DEFINITION OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS BASICALLY IS FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN 30 DAYS. UM, AND, UM, THAT WOULD BE A SHORT TERM RENTAL. AND IN ORDER TO HAVE A SHORT TERM RENTAL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SINGLE FAMILY RENTAL, UH, RENTAL PERMIT THAT'S REQUIRED. AND WHAT, THE WAY THIS HAS BEEN OUTLINED IS IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM OF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM LOCATION, YOU, YOU CAN SUSPEND THE PERMIT THAT'S REQUIRED TO, TO RENT IT. AND THEN THEY HAVE CERTAIN RIGHTS. ONCE YOU SUSPEND IT THAT'S IS THEY HAVE A RIGHT OF DUE PROCESS. THEY HAVE A METHOD THEY CAN GO THROUGH TO GET THEIR PERMIT REACTIVATED. AND IN THIS PARTICULAR ONE, THEY HAVE TO MEET WITH THE DIRECTOR OF CODE ENFORCEMENT, PAY ALL THE OUTSTANDING, OUTSTANDING FINES, IF ANY, ENTER INTO A COMPLIANCE AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY. AND THEN, UM, THEY HAVE TO SATISFY ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITION OF THE COMPLIANCE AGREEMENT IN ORDER TO GET THEIR, THEIR SUSPENDED LICENSE REACTIVATED. AND THEN IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL PROBLEMS, YOU CAN ACTUALLY HAVE A REVOCATION OF THE PERMIT. AND SO IF IT CONTINUES TO BE A PROBLEM TO GO FROM SUSPENSION TO REVOCATION AND REVOCATION OR ADVOCATING THE PERMIT REQUIRES THREE CONVICTIONS IN OUR, IN OUR MUNICIPAL COURT OF PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES. AND THAT GETS DEFINED IN CHAPTER 26 ABOUT WHAT A PROHIBITED ACTIVITY IS. AND WE'LL GET TO THAT HERE IN A SECOND, BUT IF YOU GET THREE CONVICTIONS WITHIN A SIX MONTH PERIOD OF, UM, RIGHT, WHEREAS A 12 MINUTE PERIOD, I THINK IT'S A 12 MONTH PERIOD. IF YOU GET THREE CONVICTIONS WITHIN A 12 MONTH PERIOD, THEN, UM, YOU CAN ACTUALLY HAVE YOUR PERMIT REVOKED. NOW WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY GET THEIR PERMIT REVOKED AND THEY CONTINUE TO RENT THE PROPERTY OUT WHERE AT THAT POINT YOU CAN ACTUALLY TERMINATE UTILITIES UNDER SUBSECTION P. AND THAT'S WHERE WE, IT KIND OF PARALLELS WHAT WE DO WITH CRIMINAL ENTERPRISES AND CHAPTER 52. AND IF WE SAY, WE SAY, SINCE WE ARE THE SUPPLIER OF UTILITIES, BOTH WATER AND ELECTRIC, WE'RE NOT GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE BY SUPPLYING YOU WITH THESE UTILITIES. AND SO WE HAVE A PROCESS IN PLACE TO WHERE WE CAN TERMINATE UTILITIES IF THEY CONTINUE TO DO IT. AND ONCE WE TERMINATE UTILITIES, THAT PREMISE THAT PREMISES NO LONGER BECOMES ELIGIBLE TO EVER BE USED AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL IN THE CITY AGAIN. UM, AND THAT'S ENOUGH. AND AGAIN, EACH ONE OF THOSE STEPS HAS ITS OWN DUE PROCESS. THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO APPEAL FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE STEPS. WE REALLY WANT TO, I'VE ALWAYS, I'VE ALWAYS TOLD HER DEPARTMENTS THAT DO PROCESSES OR FRIEND W THE ONE THING WE DON'T WANT TO BE ACCUSED OF IS NOT PROVIDING DUE PROCESS. AND WE TAKE SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY RIGHTS FROM THEM, AND THIS IS A PROPERTY, RIGHT? AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, SECTION THREE, IT GETS INTO CHAPTER 26, WHICH ISN'T THE ENFORCEMENT MORE OF THE ENFORCEMENT ARTICLE OF, OF THE CODE. AND IT GOES TO A COUPLE OF DEFINITIONS. AND THEN YOU SEE SOME OF THE MORE DEFINITE REQUIREMENTS OF, OF HAVING A SHORT TERM RENTAL. AND THAT IS ONE, GOTTA HAVE THE SINGLE FAMILY PERMIT TWO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE LANDLINE, UH, THAT WAY THE POLICE HAVE A PHONE NUMBER. THEY CAN ALWAYS CALL AT THE LOCATION. IF THEY START RECEIVING COMPLAINTS AND YOU HAVE TO CONTACT INFORMATION PROVIDED TO NEIGHBORS. AND SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ONE, YOU HAVE TO GO TO EACH OF YOUR NEIGHBORS, WHETHER IT'S BEHIND YOU CADDY CORNER TO YOUR ACROSS THE STREET, YOU HAVE TO GO TO THEM AND PROVIDE THEM CONTACT INFORMATION OF THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, THE OWNER, OR THE OPERATOR, OR THE MANAGER OF THE PROPERTY. THAT WAY, IF THEY'RE HAVING PROBLEMS, THEY HAVE A NUMBER THEY CAN CALL AND SAY, I WANT TO TALK TO THE MANAGER OF THIS PROPERTY. I'M HAVING PROBLEMS TONIGHT. AND THEN AS YOU'LL SEE IN CHAPTER IN 26, 24, 26, 64, IT'S PROHIBITED CONDUCT. AND THIS IS A SERIES OF VIOLATIONS THAT BASICALLY SAY THAT THAT GOES TO THE SUSPENSION REVOCATION AND EVEN THE REVOCATION OF UTILITIES. UM, IF THEY'RE, IF THEY HAVE THREE OR MORE, UH, VIOLATIONS UNDER THIS SECTION HERE OF ANY OF THIS CONDUCT, AND IT GOES ON TO, YOU'LL SEE SOME OF THE CONDUCT, YOU PUT OCCUPANCY LIMITS IN THERE. IF THEY VIOLATE THE OCCUPANT OCCUPANCY LIMITS, THAT'S PROHIBITED CONDUCT. AND AS YOU CAN SEND THIS ON, IT'S TWO PERSONS FOR EVERY BEDROOM PLUS AN ADDITIONAL TWO PERSONS. AND SO, SO THAT IF YOU HAVE A FOUR BEDROOM, YOU HAVE 10 PEOPLE, YOU CAN RENT YOUR, UM, YOUR AIRBNB OR VRVO TWO. AND THEN IT TALKS ABOUT MINERS AND IT TALKS ABOUT HOW THE CURFEW EXTENDS TO MINORS. SO THIS IS A PUBLIC PLACE, UM, UNDER OUR COFFEE ORDINANCE. AND SO YOU CAN'T BE LEASING THIS OR ALLOWING MINORS TO STAY AT THE LOCATION AFTER CURFEW, UH, MAY. UM, AND UNLESS OF COURSE, PARENTS ARE, ARE PRESENT AND THEN YOU HAVE TIME LIMITS FOR OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES. I MEAN, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT'S BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 9:00 PM AND 7:00 AM WHERE YOU CAN HAVE OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES AND THEN PARKING LIMITS. THIS IS A, THIS IS ONE THAT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT. EACH SHORT-TERM RENTAL PREMISE SHE'LL HAVE NO MORE THAN TWO VEHICLES PARKED WITHIN 500 FEET OF THE PREMISES [01:05:01] AND ON A PUBLIC STREET OR RIGHT AWAY. SO THEY CAN PARK ON THE DRIVEWAY, BUT THEY CAN'T PARK ANY MORE THAN TWO VEHICLES WITHIN 500 FEET OF THE PREMISES. UH, WHEN SUCH VEHICLE IS OWNED OPERATOR CONTROLLED BY MANAGER HOSTS, RESIDENT, GUESTS, PATRIARCHY, OR CLIENT OF THE SHORT RENTAL. NOW THAT'S THE DIFFICULT PART TO ENFORCE BECAUSE THAT'S, AGAIN, THAT WOULD JUST BE A TOOL. IF WE HAVE A PARTICULAR LOCATION WHERE WE'RE HAVING A PROBLEM, WE COULD SEND OUT A, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT TO TRY TO ENFORCE THAT PROVISION, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE TIME INTENSIVE AND RESOURCE INTENSE, INTENSIVE TO ENFORCE THAT. AND THEN THE CHAPTER 26, WHERE SECTION 26 POINT 69 IS JUST THE CRIMINAL OFFENSES THAT APPLY TO ALL OF THIS STUFF. AND THAT'S KIND OF THE BASIC OUTLINE OF IT. OKAY. AND JUST TO BE CLEAR FOR THE COMMITTEE, THIS, THIS IS A, THIS IS A DRAFT. THIS IS NOT WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. CORRECT. OKAY. AND, UM, I THINK IT WOULD BE USEFUL FOR THIS COMMITTEE'S PURPOSES AND REVISITING THIS, IF WE COULD GET A, UM, A REDLINED VERSION OF WHAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE NOW THAT'S ENFORCEABLE AND BASED ON THIS DRAFT, YES. OKAY. FOR COMPARISON. OKAY. AND AGAIN, ALL OF THIS STUFF IS, IS, IS A MENU FOR THE COUNCIL TO DETERMINE WHAT THEY LOCK AND WHAT THEY DON'T, IT'S A BUFFET. AND THERE ARE SOME THINGS IN HERE THAT THE COUNCIL I CAN TELL YOU FROM EXPERIENCE ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE, AND MAYBE THERE'S ONE OR TWO THINGS THEY DO. LIKE, I DON'T KNOW. WE'LL SEE. BUT JUST REMEMBER, THIS IS NOT MY ORDINANCE. THIS WILL BE, THIS WILL BE THE QUICK COMMITTEES ORDINANCE. IF THEY LIE AT THE FINAL PRODUCT, WON'T BE MINE. IT WILL BE Y'ALL'S. SO WE WILL CERTAINLY GIVE FULL CREDIT TO OUR CITY ATTORNEY BY NAME OR HIS ORDINANCE. ALL RIGHT. UM, SO, AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TRY TO REACH A CONCLUSION ON THIS. THIS IS, THIS IS A ROUGH AND RAW INTRODUCTION. I WOULD HOPE, UM, MR. ENGLAND, IF YOU CAN SEND US A RED LINE VERSION OF WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE TO COMPARE WITH THIS, AND YOU'LL FEEL EMAIL IT TO THE FULL COMMITTEE SO THAT WE CAN HAVE TIME COMMITTEE. OUR NEXT MEETING IS ONLY THREE WEEKS FROM NOW INSTEAD OF FOUR WEEKS AS USUAL, JUST BECAUSE OF SCHEDULING ISSUES. UM, WOULD THAT GIVE YOU ENOUGH TIME, DO YOU BELIEVE TO REVIEW, UM, AND BE ABLE TO DISCUSS IN MORE DEPTH THAT THE NEXT MEETING, UM, START WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH SOME OF THESE THINGS AND CORRECT? UH, YES. YES. I ALREADY HAVE NOTES. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. UM, SO UNLESS, UNLESS YOU HAVE OTHER, UH, REQUESTS AT WORK QUESTIONS, UM, DO EITHER ONE OF YOU WANT TO SHARE YOUR SPECIFIC THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS CONCERNS ABOUT, UM, PLACES WE MIGHT GO TO MAKE YOUR LIVES MISERABLE BY TAKING ANY OF MR. ENGLAND'S ORDINANCE AND MAKING IT LAW? WELL, I'M LOVING THIS, RIGHT. GET THE RED PEN TO REALLY, YOU KNOW, MY MAIN THOUGHT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN ENFORCE WHEN WE GET CALLS. YOU KNOW, I'M THINKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE OCCUPANCY, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO YOU? CAN'T JUST BARGE IN AND COUNT PEOPLE. SO SOME OF THESE THINGS, WHEN IT COMES TO ENFORCEMENT ARE GOING TO BE TRICKY AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, GOOD WITH GOOD INTENTIONS OF TRYING TO MAKE IT AS EASY TO ENFORCE AS POSSIBLE. I JUST SEE SOME THINGS IN MY HEAD, I'M ASKING MYSELF QUESTIONS, BUT WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK THROUGH THIS AND, YOU KNOW, PROVIDE, BE READY TO, THIS IS NONE OF THIS AS EASILY ENFORCED. I'LL JUST TELL YOU THAT RIGHT NOW. NONE OF IT IS WHEN I'M THINKING THROUGH HOW THIS WORKS ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, I'M JUST LIKE, HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT? OH, THE COMMUNITY, WHAT ARE THE COMMUNITY? HAS SOMETHING LIKE THIS ALREADY IN PLACE, AUSTIN, EVERYBODY IRVING GRANT. YEAH. GRAND PRAIRIE. UM, YEAH. A BUNCH OF COMMUNITY, A BUNCH OF CITIES HAVE BEEN SUED, BUT RIGHT. UM, AND WE'RE TRYING NOT TO DO THAT. RIGHT, RIGHT. THINKING ABOUT THE COMPLAINTS THAT WE'VE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T COMBINED COMPLAINTS, BUT I'M SURE WE COULD COMBINE AND SEE WHAT WE HAVE, BUT I'M NOT EVEN SURE WE WOULD HAVE ANY ROSE TO THREE CONVICTIONS. IT, NO, CAUSE WE HAVEN'T BEEN ENFORCING. YEAH. WE HAVEN'T BEEN TRYING TO GET TAKEN FORCEMENT ACTION. RIGHT. SO EVEN GETTING TO THAT THRESHOLD, WE, WE DO HAVE SOME OKAY. YEAH. THAT'S GOOD. GOOD TO KNOW. SO HAVE WE ACTED WITH THREE CONVICTIONS TO SHUT THEM DOWN OR WE DON'T HAVE IT. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN PLACE TO DO THAT. RIGHT. SO THAT'S WHAT THIS WOULD DO. OKAY. SEE THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. UM, SO WOULD YOU ALL PUT TOGETHER WHAT YOU HAVE IS WHAT YOU CAN FIND? UM, LET'S SAY FOR THE LAST, WHAT, WHAT TIMEFRAME YOU'VE ALREADY, DO YOU HAVE IT HERE WITH YOU TODAY? WOULD YOU PASS IT OUT TO US? IS IT COPIES? OKAY. [01:10:01] THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. AND LET US, WE'RE GOING TO BE TAKING THIS AS HOMEWORK BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS FUSSY AND MIGRAINE INDUCING ISSUE, TRYING TO COME UP WITH POLICY THAT'S FAIR AND ENFORCEABLE. AND THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY DOESN'T TELL US IS ILLEGAL, WHICH IT'S ALWAYS A PROBLEM TO HAVE HIM HERE. HE STOPS ALL OF OUR BEST IDEAS. UM, BUT THEN AGAIN, WE DON'T GET SUED ALL THE TIME FOR THOSE THINGS. SO, UM, LARGELY THANKS TO HIS INTERVENTION. SO, ALL RIGHT. SO WHILE, WHILE WE'RE GETTING COPIES OF, OF SOME OF THOSE, UM, IF WE CAN CIRCLE BACK A LITTLE BIT TO RENTAL PROPERTY PROGRAMS, AND AGAIN, THIS IS PURELY INTRODUCTORY. UM, SO I MENTIONED THE RENT, A HOME OWN AGREEMENTS, WHICH ARE ONE LOOPHOLE. UM, I MENTIONED, UM, THE, UM, WELL, THE OTHER, THE HAVING, HAVING, UM, SENIOR EXEMPTIONS AND HOMESTEAD EXEMPTIONS WITH A SHORT-TERM RENTAL ISSUE, BECAUSE THAT'S SHOWING THAT THEY'RE CLAIMING TO BE LIVING THERE WHEN THEY'RE NOT FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS. SO WE'LL, WE'LL ADDRESS THAT HOPEFULLY EVENTUALLY AS WE WALK THROUGH THIS ORDINANCE, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT PART OF YOUR DRAFT RIGHT NOW. AND THAT'S PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE IN AN ORDINANCE. THAT'D BE MORE OF A POLICY OF DIRECTING US, DIRECTING STAFF TO CONTACT DALLAS COUNTY DECAF AND LET THEM KNOW THAT THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION SHOULD NOT HAVE THIS PARTICULAR EXEMPTION TO IT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY JURISDICTION OVER THOSE CLASSIFICATIONS. SO COULD THAT BE, BE A POLICY WHERE THAT STATUS IS CHECKED PRIOR TO ISSUING A PERMIT? SURE. OKAY. THAT'S ACTUALLY, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD IDEA. OKAY. WELL, LET'S WRITE THAT DOWN SINCE IT'S A GREAT IDEA AND YOU'RE TRACKING IT. ALL RIGHT. SO YEAH, THE OTHER LOOPHOLE IS, UM, THE DIFFICULTY AND THIS IS WHAT THE SINGLE FAMILY, UM, REGISTRATION, THE RENTAL REGISTRATION PROGRAM OWNERS THAT KEEP THE UTILITIES IN THEIR NAME AND MOVE RENTERS IN SO THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE UTILITY CHANGE THAT FLAGS AS HERE AT THE CITY TO SAY, OH, YOU KNOW, A NEW PERSON MOVED IN. THIS IS PROBABLY A RENTAL AND, AND STARTING THE PROCESS OF SAYING YOU HAVE TO REGISTER. BUT A LOT OF THE LANDLORDS HAVE FIGURED THAT OUT BECAUSE IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT. AND THEY KEEP THE UTILITIES IN THEIR NAME. THEY, THEY MAKE IT A HIGHER RENTAL PRICE THAT IT'S A UTILITIES INCLUDED OR THEY PRIVATELY BILL THE RENTERS. AND SO THEY STAY OFF OUR RADAR AND THEY HAVE HOUSES THAT ARE PROBLEMS. AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT GETS CALLED TO A LOT OF THESE HOUSES AND THEY'RE NOT ON OUR REGISTER AS RENTALS, BUT IN FACT THEY ARE RENTALS. SO THAT'S, UM, THAT'S ANOTHER LOOPHOLE THAT, UM, WE'D LIKE TO SEE IF THERE'S A WAY WHEN WE WALKED THROUGH THE, UM, SINGLE FAMILY RENTAL REGISTRATION PROGRAM, IF WE CAN CLOSE THAT LOOPHOLE THAT I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULDN'T BE POLICY. IS THERE A LEGAL WAY TO CLOSE THAT LOOP LOOPHOLE THAT JUMPS TO MIND? I GUESS I SEE THE ISSUE WHEN IT COMES TO LONG-TERM RENTALS, BUT WITH SHORT TERM RENTALS, IT WOULD STAY IN THE NAME OF WHOEVER THE PROPERTY OWNER I WAS TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT LONGTERM. WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND REGULAR RESIDENTS. IT'S DIFFICULT. YEAH. BECAUSE YOU'D HAVE TO KNOW THAT TENANT THAT THE TENANTS ARE MOVING OUT AND MOVING IN. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW, YEAH, WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT. THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A CONVERSATION WE HAVE WITH KEVIN'S GROUP AND A CUSTOMER SERVICE TO SEE HOW THEY GO ABOUT THE BILLING AND HOW THEY SET UP THE ACCOUNTS AT THIS POINT, UH, CUSTOMER SERVICE DOES SEND ABOUT, SAY TWO PER DAY. I'LL LOOK PULLED ABOUT THE LAST YEAR TO SEE HOW MANY THEY'VE SENT US, UH, ROUGHLY 530 SOMETHING COMPLAINTS WE'VE OPENED FOR RENTAL REGISTRATION. MO A LOT OF THAT, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY OF THOSE WERE FROM CUSTOMER SERVICE, BUT A GOOD PORTION OF THOSE FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE. THEY, THEY WATCH OUT FOR IT. THEY KNOW THAT IT'S FOR SURE, A RENTAL, A LOT OF THEIR REPRESENTATIVES, OUR WAY TO BE REGISTERED. THAT'S THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE KNOW TO CAPTURE SOMETHING LIKE ANIME, IF YOU'VE GOT SOME KIND OF WAY TO LOOPHOLE, BUT I DON'T KNOW. OTHER THAN THAT CUSTOMER SEEMS TO BE A REALLY ON THEIR GAME, RIGHT? YEAH. I THINK IT WOULD BE, YEAH. WE WOULD NEED TO COORDINATE WITH KEVIN TO SEE WHAT THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IS. ALL RIGHT. SO WE WILL THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND, UH, YEAH, WE CAN TACKLE THAT AND, AND WORK WITH KEVIN AND SEE IF WE CAN'T DEVISE SOME BETTER WAY TO, UM, KIND OF STOP THAT BEFORE IT, BEFORE IT GETS TO THE POINT THAT PEOPLE ARE HAVING TO CALL [01:15:01] IN AND REPORT THEM. I MEAN, I'VE GOT A HOUSE, TWO DOORS AWAY FROM ME THAT HAS BEEN REPORTED LITERALLY FOR YEARS, BUT THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE LANDLORD SELLS IT, BUT IT NEVER CHANGES HANDS. AND IT IS A CONSTANT DISASTER AND PLACES WHERE YOU'VE GOT, UH, PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING WITH THE LANDLORD ACTING AS THE FRONT MAN TO PAY THE UTILITIES, UNLESS SOMEBODY REPORTS THEM. YEAH, WE WOULDN'T, WE WOULDN'T KNOW. SO, AND IT ALSO SAYING THAT RENTAL AGREEMENT WITH LANDLORDS THAT, UM, TENANTS ARE ALLOWED TO RENT TO NON-FAMILY MEMBERS, EACH HOME IN THE HOUSE, LIKE SUBLET, WE W AGAIN, THAT WOULD GIVE IT INTO THE RIGHT TO LEASE, WHICH IS A FUNDAMENTAL, RIGHT. ACCORDING TO THE SUPREME COURT, I'M NOT SURE WE WOULD HAVE THE ACTUAL TENANT CONSENT. THEN WHAT, WHEN YOU, ACTUALLY, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU RENT FROM SOMEONE, YOU HAVE WHAT THEY CALL A LEASEHOLD ESTATE, AND THAT IS ACTUALLY A PROPERTY, RIGHT. THAT YOU HAVE, THEY CAN'T BE TAKEN FROM YOU, BUT ALSO AS A PART OF THAT PROPERTY, RIGHT. YOU CAN SUBLEASE IF ALLOWED, IF THAT RIGHTS EXTENDED TO YOU BY YOUR, UH, BEYOND THE LEASE AND LORD, YOU CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT THE LANDLORD. RIGHT. ADMITTING IT. RIGHT. YEAH. YEAH. AND WE, AS A CITY, CAN'T GO INSIDE THOSE, THOSE CONTRACTS BETWEEN LEASE AGREEMENTS AND ACTUALLY INTERVENE IN THOSE. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO THE, THE PROGRAM WHERE THE LANDLORD CAN TAKE A CLASS AND THE HOMES AREN'T SUBJECT TO INSPECTION FOR THREE YEARS OR PER TENANT CHANGE OVER. CORRECT. THEY STILL HAVE TO, I THINK THERE'S STILL INSPECT IF A NEW TENANT COMES IN. NO, MA'AM NO, IT'S THREE YEARS. IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE CERTIFIED LAND IS ALWAYS CALLED CERTIFIED LANDOWNER, THE TENANT CAN ALWAYS REQUEST AN INSPECTION. SO THERE'S THE COMPLAINT BASIS THAT KIND OF UNDERLIES ALL OF THAT AS WELL. I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THE TENANTS THAT ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING AND SOME OF THESE CASES, I'M SURE THERE ARE CASES WHERE THEY'RE JUST NOT BEING TAKEN CARE OF. BUT, WELL, IN SOME CASES I'VE ALREADY GOTTEN A LOT OF CALLS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR THING, AND I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE TWO WEEKS. WE NEED, WE NEED TO FIND GRACEFUL LEGAL SOLUTIONS AS MUCH KEY CAN'T SOLVE EVERYTHING AND YOU CAN'T FIX EVERY PROBLEM, BUT TO SEE IF WE CAN IMPROVE IT AND MAKE IT SOMEWHAT MORE FUNCTIONAL THAN IT IS RIGHT NOW. UM, YEAH. SO WE ALL GOT ONE OF THESE. I CAN JUST TELL YOU SCANNING DOWN THE, UH, ADDRESS LIST TO THE FAR. RIGHT. I SEE MY MOST RECENT, UM, SERIES OF COMPLAINTS HAS GOES ALL THE WAY BACK. UM, IT GOES BACK SEVERAL YEARS. SO THIS HAS BEEN AN ONGOING PROBLEM AND WE HAVE NOT HAD ANY TOOLS TO FIX IT FOR THEM, WHICH HAS MADE THEM VERY FRUSTRATED SO THAT THE REASON THAT THERE ARE NO CITATIONS ISSUED THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE NOTHING TO CITE THEM FOR. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. AND WE SEE CLOSED ON THE STATUS ON EACH OF THEM. IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY VIOLATIONS, DID THEY? SO REALLY LIKELY A LOT OF THEM WERE LIKE GREEN CONTAINERS OF AS A BIG ONE. THEY'RE NOT, OBVIOUSLY WHEN YOU GET 10 IN THERE EVERY COUPLE OF DAYS THEY DON'T PULL THE, THE GREEN CONTAINER BACK OR, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. THAT'S A HUGE ISSUE ON OUR SIDE. OKAY. OKAY. IS THAT GC GREEN CONTAINERS. OKAY. WOULD YOU MIND GOING THROUGH THOSE CODES FOR ME PLEASE? UH, LIKE THE, THERE IS LIKE THROUGH THE PDB, THAT'S PORTABLE WATER LEAKS. THAT'S LEGIT ISSUES THERE. UH, THE GREEN CONTAINER GC, THE OSI IS OVERCROWDING, THE TRS TRASH THAT'S, THAT'S A BIG ONE WE SEE WITH THEM. UM, LIKE THE THAT'S THE ENCROACHMENTS, UH, THE HA IS HIGH GRASS, THE ALLEY EMO AT MINIMUM OCCUPIED THAT'S. SO MINIMUM OCCUPY THAT'D BE AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL ISSUE WITH THE HOUSE. LIKE, UH, LOOK AT THE ONE HERE ON SAWGRASS. I THINK SOMEONE'S COMPLAINING ABOUT, I THINK THEY SAID IT WAS A LEAK OF THE HOUSE. UM, IT WAS FARMING THERE. WASN'T ONE. NOW IS THE COMPLAINT CODE. THAT WAS, THIS IS, THIS IS A PLANK COMPLAINT CODE THAT WAS ENTERED. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT WAS NECESSARILY FOUND TO BE A PROBLEM. OKAY. AND I GUESS THE OTHER BIG ONES LET'S SEE TRASH RED BS HIS VEHICLE IN THE STRAIGHT. THAT WAS, UH, BACK IN 19. WHEN, WHEN CODE COMPLIANCE STILL HAD THE VEHICLES, G C T R O T. UH, SO THE GREEN CONTAINER TRASH AND OT WAS JUST OTHER, UH, I COULDN'T TELL YOU WHAT THAT WAS. OKAY. [01:20:01] THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S KIND OF THE CATCH ALL, IF THERE'S SOMETHING OUT THERE NOW, E UH, SO ALL THE ONES, THE BOTTOM, THAT'S JUST A CODE. UH, WE FOUND OUT THERE WERE RENTALS OR SHORT-TERM RENTALS. WE, WE ENTERED HIM IN HIS LODGE AND ESTABLISHMENTS AND THAT'S JUST US TRACKING THOSE DOWN. OKAY. UM, THAT'D BE MY, I GUESS MY ONLY CONCERN WITH, ON YOUR DRAFT, DO YOU HAVE, ARE YOU MOVING THEM OVER TO SINGLE FAMILY RENTALS OR ARE THEY GOING TO STILL BE CONSENTING LODGING NOW THERE'LL BE MOVED OVER TO SINGLE FAMILY. WE'LL STILL BE COLLECTING YOU DON'T COLLECT MONEY FROM THEM. SURE. OKAY. AND WHAT IT'S WORTH, I RECOGNIZE ABOUT FIVE OF THESE ADDRESSES, THE SAME ADDRESS AS WE GO TO REPEAT. UH, YEAH. AND THAT THAT'S A BIG DEAL. GETTING US OUT OF THE HOTEL MOTEL OUT FROM UNDER THAT UMBRELLA AND PUTTING US IN THE SAME CATEGORY SHORT-TERM RENTALS WITH LONG-TERM RENTALS. IT'S, DOESN'T REALLY GET US OUT FROM THAT UMBRELLA. CAUSE THAT'S NOT ENTIRELY RIGHT TO BE IN THAT, UNDER THAT UMBRELLA BECAUSE WE WANT TAX, WE WANT THEIR TAXES. BUT WHAT WE DON'T WANT IS TO HAVE NO ABILITY TO MONITOR OR LIMIT OCCUPANCY AND OTHER, OTHER THINGS THAT WE HOTELS AND MOTELS, YOU DON'T HAVE LIMITED OCCUPANCY. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'VE HAD WITH SAYING, OKAY, IT'S MASSIVE OVERCROWDING. AND IT'S LIKE, WELL, THAT, THAT ISN'T A THING WITH OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE. SO, UM, YEAH, WE WANT THEIR MONEY. WE DEFINITELY WANT THEIR MONEY. EVERY DANG DIME FOR A THREE-YEAR HISTORY, AME ADDRESSES SEEMED LIKE IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE WE HAVE A REAL BIG PROBLEM THOUGH. WELL, THIS IS CODE ENFORCEMENTS COMPLAINT LOG. AND SO THERE IS THE PD LOG AS WELL, WHICH WOULD HAVE TO BE ADDED TO IT. YEAH, I WOULD SAY, I MEAN, IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE VR, VR RENTAL PLACES, IT IS ONLY A SMALL PORTION OF THEM THAT ARE PROBLEMS. IT'S A HANDFUL, BUT THE ONES THAT ARE PROBLEMS ARE SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS. AND WE DON'T HAVE TOOLS RIGHT NOW TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS. AND THAT'S THE BIG ISSUE. SO LET ME EXPEND SOME TIME. YEAH. THIS IS GOING TO TAKE TIME BECAUSE IT CAN BE DONE WRONG. UM, NOT AS MUCH, NOT AS MUCH. AND IF WE EVER ACQUIRE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL EVENTS CENTER, ANY STADIUM OR ARENA OR ANY KIND OF THING LIKE THAT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE HOUSES AROUND THAT AREA THAT WILL WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL PROGRAMS. SO I THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE US TO LOOK AT THAT NOW. WELL, AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE CAME TO TWO YEARS AGO, THREE YEARS AGO, WENT, DAVID GIBBONS WAS STILL ON, ON COUNCIL AT THE TIME. AND MY, MY INITIAL QUESTION AT THE TIME WHEN THIS CAME UP IS, DO WE NEED THIS? DO WE EVEN NEED THIS? I, YOU KNOW, IS THIS A, UH, SOLUTION LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM? ARE WE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS? AND I SPENT SOME TIME, UM, KIND OF GOING OVER THE, THE COMPLAINTS AND ALSO LOOKING ONLINE AND LOOKING AT THE ADVERTISEMENTS FOR HOUSES IN THE MIDDLE OF SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE ADVERTISED AS PARTY HOUSES, NO LIMIT IN OCCUPANCY, YOU KNOW, THIS AND THIS AND THIS, UM, AND COUNCILMAN GIBBONS AT THE TIME, HE SAID, I'M HAVING A BIG PROBLEM IN MY DISTRICT, A BIG PROBLEM. AND AFTER LOOKING INTO IT, I, I, I SAW IT. HE, HE WAS HAVING A BIG PROBLEM. AND SO WE NEEDED TO DO, UM, SOME REGULATIONS THAT WERE SENSIBLE, BUT WE DIDN'T ANTICIPATE OBVIOUSLY, OR WE WOULD HAVE DONE OTHER THINGS TO BEGIN WITH. WE DIDN'T ANTICIPATE HAVING THE PROBLEMS DEVELOP THAT HAVE IN FACT DEVELOPED. SO WE JUST NEED TO TWEAK IT. IT'S JUST TWEAKING. ALL RIGHT. UM, COMMITTEE, I DO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS AS, AS MUCH AS WE ARE GOING TO NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW, AND I'M GETTING BACK TO MY AGENDA. SO THAT GETS US TO ITEM FOUR ON THE AGENDA, UM, TO ADJOURN. IT IS AT 5:24 PM. THANK YOU. WE ARE ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.