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AFTERNOON AND WELCOME[Development Services Committee on August 15, 2022.]
TO THE AUGUST 15TH TO 2022 MEETING OF THE GARLAND DEVELOPMENT SERVICE COMMITTEE.MYSELF IS DYLAN HEDRICK CHAIRMAN.
WE ALSO HAVE COUNSEL EDDIE MORRIS AND COUNCILMAN BASS WITH US.
UH, FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE JULY 18TH, 2022.
MEETING MR. CHAIR, I WILL MOVE TO A THREE AND I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE SECOND ALL IN FAVOR.
MOVE ON TO OUR ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION.
TWO INTERESTING ITEMS THIS TIME WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, FIRST ITEM ITEM TO A DOWNTOWN AUTOMOTIVE OVERLAY DISTRICT REVIEW.
WE HAVE, UH, MR. X, MR. GUERIN WITH US GENTLEMEN.
I'M GOING TO KIND OF INTRODUCE THE TOPIC AND WE'VE GOT A SHORT PRESENTATION TO GO OVER AND THEN OF COURSE LOOK FOR SOME INPUT FROM THE COMMITTEE ON, ON HOW TO MOVE FORWARD.
UM, OUR AUDIT DEPARTMENT RECENTLY COMPLETED AN AUDIT OF, UM, OUR ADMINISTRATIVE OR OUR ADMINISTRATION OF THE DOWNTOWN AUTOMOTIVE OVERLAY DISTRICT, UM, OVER THE ALMOST 20 YEARS THAT IT'S BEEN AROUND.
UH, SO A LOT OF RECOMMENDATIONS CAME OUT OF IT FIRST AND FOREMOST WAS THAT WE WORKED WITH THE COMMITTEE AND THE COUNCIL TO REVIEW THE EXISTING ORDINANCE.
UM, WE STILL HAVE SORT OF A PROLIFERATION OF AUTO USES OUT THERE, NOT JUST DOWNTOWN, BUT THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
UH, HOW BEST CAN WE REGULATE THOSE AND, AND, UH, WORK WITH OUR WORK WITH EXISTING BUSINESSES AND, AND LOOK TO BRING IN NEW BUSINESSES AS WELL.
SO, UH, WE'VE GOT SOME, I'LL KIND OF HIT THE HIGH LEVEL STUFF AND THEN LET, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE SPECIFIC TOOLS THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO WORK WITHIN.
UM, SO JUST WANTED TO THROW UP THERE KIND OF A MAP OF THE, THE EXISTING AUTO OVERLAY DISTRICT.
UM, IT'S KIND OF FOCUSED AROUND DOWNTOWN THE FIRST STREET CORRIDOR, UM, AND THEN ALSO OVER TOWARD GARLAND AVENUE.
UM, AND THAT'S PRIMARILY WHEN THIS WAS CREATED WHERE THE AUTO BUSINESSES WERE FOCUSED AND CENTERED.
I THINK THERE WAS ABOUT 68 OR SO BUSINESSES INITIALLY WHEN THE DISTRICT WAS CREATED, UM, AND PER AUDIT, WE FOUND MORE AND THEN SOME HAD EXPANDED.
UH, AND SO, UH, AGAIN, JUST KIND OF WANTED TO REFRESH YOU ON THOSE BOUNDARIES.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT HERE, WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE IS THAT, UM, HAVE A FEW SLIDES HERE FROM OUR, UH, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF PREVIEW OF OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, STRATEGIC PLAN.
SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF A SNEAK PEEK AT SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WE'VE COME UP WITH THROUGH THERE, BUT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT, NOT ONLY AROUND THE AUTO BUSINESSES THAT WE HAVE THROUGHOUT GARLAND, BUT, UM, THE SORT OF REVENUE PER ACRE THAT WAS GENERATED FROM DIFFERENT LAND USES, UM, IN THE CITY AMONG THOSE AUTO BUSINESSES AND THEN OTHERS.
SO, UH, THE NUMBER IS PRETTY BIG 953 ACRES OF LAND THAT'S DEDICATED TO AUTO ORIENTED USES AND THAT'S ANYTHING FROM, YOU KNOW, UH, AUTO SALES, CAR WASHES, UM, AUTO REPAIR, UM, ANYTHING AUTO-RELATED FALLS IN THAT CATEGORY.
SO THERE'S QUITE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF OUR LAND.
UM, AGAIN, THIS IS KIND OF A PREVIEW YOU'LL GET, YOU'LL GET THE FINAL VERSION WHEN WE'RE READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE STRATEGIC PLAN.
BUT, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OUR CONSULTANTS LOOKED AT IS HOW MUCH REVENUE DO THE DIFFERENT LAND USES IN GARLAND GENERATE.
AND SO ON THIS FIRST SLIDE, UH, THIS IS A LOT OF COMMERCIAL RETAIL USES.
UM, YEAH, AND I'LL NEED TO LOOK HERE CLOSER SO I CAN, UM, SO FOR SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL AND RETAIL USES FOR W WE WEREN'T ABLE TO NECESSARILY PULL OUT, UM, AUTO USES AND, AND CREATE THEIR OWN CATEGORY.
AND SO THEY THEY'VE BEEN CLUMPED IN HERE WITH STANDALONE COMMERCIAL, UM, WHICH ON AVERAGE, AND THIS INCLUDES OTHER STANDALONE COMMERCIALS.
SO YOU'RE A FAST FOOD JOINTS, YOUR PHARMACIES, THAT SORT OF THING.
IT KIND OF AVERAGE OUT PER ACRE, AND THIS IS JUST PROPERTY VALUE, AD VALOREM PROPERTY VALUE REVENUE.
THIS IS NOT A SALES TAX REVENUE.
THAT'S THE DATA THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PULL INTO THIS STUDY AS WELL, BUT, UM, ABOUT 5,350 $300 PER ACRE IN REVENUE PER YEAR, UH, FOR STANDALONE COMMERCIAL.
AND YOU GO UP TO YOUR LARGER SHOPPING CENTERS AND, AND LARGE FORMAT COMMERCIAL, UH, FOOTPRINTS, YOU KNOW, YOU GET 6,000 TO 8,000, UM, DOLLARS PER ACRE, UH, SAME WITH YOUR RETAIL STRIP.
SO, UH, IN THE, IN THE SPECTRUM OF RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL USES, UM, AUTO USES ARE KIND OF ON THE LOW END OF THAT.
OBVIOUSLY NOT A LOT OF, UH, VALUE PROPERTY VALUE BUILT INTO THOSE, NOT A LOT OF SALES TAX REVENUE, BECAUSE WE DON'T GET THAT FROM THE SALE OF CARS.
AND THEN, UM, FROM, UH, WHAT WAS I GONNA SAY THERE? SORRY, I LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT, OH, FROM A JOB PERSPECTIVE AS WELL, NOT A LOT OF EMPLOYEES SORT OF PER ACRE.
SO THAT, AGAIN, THIS IS KIND OF PRELIMINARY AND FOCUSED, MOSTLY ON PROPERTY VALUES, BUT
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IT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF, OF WHAT WE LOOK AT THERE.UM, LOOKING AT MORE KIND OF OFFICE INDUSTRIAL USES, YOU KNOW, YOU GET A RANGE FROM 4,000 DEAD, 9,000, UH, PER ACRE IN REVENUE, AGAIN, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE EXACT USES ARE, WHAT TYPES OF BUSINESSES AND, AND, UM, GO INTO THESE SPACES AND, AND CREATE REVENUE, UM, ON THE INDUSTRIAL SPECTRUM, THERE'S EVEN QUITE A BIT OF A DIFFERENCE PER ACRE AS WELL.
UH, 11,000 TO 6,005,000, UH, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF, UM, OF THE BUSINESS.
AND THEN ALSO ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE MAIN COMPONENTS IS HOW MUCH BUSINESS PERSONAL PROPERTY IS INCLUDED IN THE PROPERTY.
SO SAY LIKE A CRAFT, UM, UH, WHERE THEY HAVE MANY MANUFACTURING LINES, A LOT OF AUTOMATION, A LOT OF, UM, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF BUSINESS, PERSONAL PROPERTY VALUE THAT'S BUILT INTO THOSE.
UM, ONE THAT I DID WANT POINT OUT IS, IS DATA CENTERS, UM, THAT IS, UH, HAVE A TREMENDOUS VALUE 21,000, REALLY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FULL LIST OR THE VERY HIGH END OF WHAT, WHAT POTENTIALLY COULD BE GENERATED PER ACRE, UH, WITH YOUR WAREHOUSE AND OTHER INDUSTRIAL SELF STORAGE, YOU KNOW, 6,000 TO 8,000 PER ACRE.
SO AGAIN, JUST WANTED TO SHARE THOSE, TO GIVE YOU A SENSE FOR WHAT, UH, ONE OF THE REASONS WE LOOK AT REGULATING BUSINESSES AND, AND PERMITTING CERTAIN USES A NOD IS BECAUSE WE HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF LAND TO WORK WITH, UH, IN ORDER TO PROVIDE SERVICE FOR SERVICES FOR THE RESIDENTS.
UM, SO THIS, THIS TABLE KIND OF HAS ALL OF THE USES.
THERE ARE SOME ON HERE THAT ARE, HAVE REALLY LOW, UM, REVENUE PER ACRE.
THOSE ARE EITHER GOVERNMENT USES UTILITY USES OR JUST UNDEVELOPED LAND.
UM, AND THEN I, I HIGHLIGHTED IN RED THERE, UH, THE STANDALONE OR SINGLE USE COMMERCIAL RETAIL SITES, WHICH GENERALLY, UM, OUR AUTO USES FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY.
UH, SO IT IS ON THE LOWER END OF OUR OVERALL REVENUE PER ACRE.
SO, UH, WITH THAT, I'LL KIND OF PAUSE.
SEE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS AND THEN, UM, LET WE'LL CONTINUE.
UM, JUST, JUST QUICKLY, AS FAR AS, UM, CLUMPING IN AUTOMOTIVE USE WITH STAND-ALONE USES, WOULD STANDALONES INCLUDE THINGS LIKE, UM, COFFEE SHOPS? YES.
AND GIVE ME SOME OTHER EXAMPLES OF WHAT GETS CLUMPED IN WITH THAT.
JUST THERE WAS A LIST ON THERE.
CAN YOU LEAVE IT THERE FOR JUST A MOMENT AND LET ME LEAVE IT ON THIS THING.
IT'S HARD TO READ BECAUSE IT'S IN GRAY.
UM, YEAH, SO WE GOT CAR WASHES, AUTO DISPLAY, SERVICE, AUTO SERVICE, UH, BANK, BARBERSHOP, CAFETERIA, UH, CONVENIENCE STORES.
OF COURSE, WE SEE A LOT OF THOSE, UM, DAY NURSERY, FAST FOOD, FREESTANDING, RETAIL, LAUNDROMAT, UM, MANY LUBES OR, YOU KNOW, GAS, SERVICE STATIONS, ANYTHING THAT'S JUST HAS A SINGLE BUSINESS THERE THAT KIND OF STANDS ALONE.
WELL, JUST AS A BRIEF REMINDER, THE DOWNTOWN AUTO AUTOMOTIVE OVERLAY, IT'S A DISTRICT THAT'S INTENDED TO ALLOW FOR THE TRANSFER OF CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS, UM, FOR AUTOMOTIVE AND SIMILAR USES TO OTHER SITES WITHIN THE SAME ZONING OVERLAYS THAT MAY BE THE SAME SITE OR A DIFFERENT SITE, AS LONG AS IT'S WITHIN THAT, UM, OVERLAY BOUNDARY.
UM, AND ESSENTIALLY IT'S A, IT'S A ONE-TO-ONE, UH, IN TERMS OF SQUARE FEET ONE-TO-ONE CREDIT.
SO, UH, SO FOR EXAMPLE, A USE, UH, MAY MAY CLOSE, BUT A NEW, UM, AUTOMOTIVE, UH, USE MAY COME IN WITH THOSE TRANSFER OF CREDITS, UH, OR IT COULD BE, UM, THE USE COULD SELL ITS CREDITS TO ANOTHER, UM, ANOTHER PROPERTY OWNER HAD ANOTHER BUSINESS OWNER THAT WANTS TO MOVE IN.
SO, UM, KIND OF A SIMILAR CONCEPT THAT WE DID WITH THE, UM, UH, ASSEMBLY HALL, UH, CREDIT SAID, UH, LAST YEAR.
UM, AND THESE ARE, THIS IS ACTUALLY THE LIST OF USES, UM, THAT ARE COVERED UNDER THE DOWNTOWN, UM, AUTOMOTIVE OVERLAY.
UH, THESE ARE ALL THE AUTOMOTIVE RELATED, UH, USES.
THIS IS ALSO IN THE LAND USE MATRIX OF CHAPTER TWO.
EVERYTHING THAT'S LISTED ARE CONSIDERED AN AUTO OR MOTOR VEHICLE RELATED.
UM, YOU, SO IT DOES INCLUDE A REPAIR, UM, AUTO SALES CAR WASHES, UH, OF COURSE TRUCK RELATED USES.
I'LL PULL UP THE LAND USE MATRIX HERE IN A LITTLE BIT AND KIND OF GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHERE THESE ARE, UM, PERMITTED OUTSIDE OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
UM, SO I'M GOING TO JUST ACTUALLY JUMP TO THE LAND, USE MATRIX, IF YOU CAN.
OH, IT IS LOOKING AT MY SHIRT ON THAT SCREEN OVER THERE.
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WAS IT ON YOUR SCREEN THOUGH? THE MATRIX IS A MATRIX.THIS IS NOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT.
WELL, THIS IS, THIS IS A, AND THIS IS A JUMPING OUTSIDE THE DOWNTOWN AREA BECAUSE WE SUSPECT THIS WILL BE KIND OF A CITYWIDE HAD GEOGRAPHIC DISCUSSION, BUT JUST FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES, UM, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE LAND USE MATRIX HERE.
YOU CAN SEE THE LIST OF USES THAT I JUST, UM, SHOWED LISTED HERE AND, UM, THE ZONING DISTRICTS AT THE TOP ON THE TOP ROW, UH, WHEN IT'S BLANK OUT OF THE ZONING DISTRICT AND THE USE THAT MEANS IS NOT ALLOWED, UM, AT ALL.
UH, IF THERE'S A P THAT MEANS IT IS PERMITTED BY, RIGHT.
SO IT DOES NOT NEED A REZONING TO ALLOW THAT USE.
AND IF THERE'S AN S THERE, IT MEANS IT'S ONLY ALLOWED BY SUP IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT.
SO JUST KIND OF WANTED TO POINT OUT, UM, YOU CAN SEE REPAIR A MAJOR REPAIR AND MINOR REPAIR HERE.
UM, IT MINOR REPAIR THIS ONE OF THE POINT THIS OUT, CAUSE THIS QUESTION DOES COME UP FROM TIME TO TIME.
UM, IT IS ALLOWED BY RIGHT IN THE COMMUNITY RETAIL, UH, DISTRICT, WHICH IS, UH, USUALLY THE MOST PREVALENT, UM, ZONING DISTRICT AROUND, UH, GARLAND IN TERMS OF COMMERCIAL ZONING.
UH, IT'S ALSO ALLOWED BY RIGHT IN LIGHT COMMERCIAL, HEAVY COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL, UH, LIGHT COMMERCIAL AREAS.
UM, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT IN GARLAND, BUT THERE'S, UM, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF LIGHT COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES AROUND THE
UM, A LITTLE BIT AROUND LAVONNE, JUST SOUTH OF GEORGE BUSH AND SOME ALONG CENTERVILLE AS WELL.
HEAVY COMMERCIAL IS WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO FIND SOME ZONES, UM, OR SOME AREAS THAT ALREADY HAVE A LOT OF, UH, OR KIND OF A CLUSTER OF AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR USES AND SALES USES.
SO THAT'S GOING TO BE SOUTH CARLIN AVENUE, UM, THE AREA KIND OF EAST OF, UH, FIRST STREET, JUST EAST OF DOWNTOWN, UM, AS WELL AS LONG FOREST LANES.
SO SOME KIND OF CLUSTERS WHERE YOU SEE, UM, SOME EXISTING AUTOMOTIVE USE, ESPECIALLY REPAIR AND, UH, SALES, JUST KIND OF JUMPING DOWN AND YOU CAN SEE GENERALLY SPEAKING THAT AUTOMOTIVE AUTO USES ARE ALLOWED.
UM, USUALLY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN COMMUNITY RETAIL AND INDUSTRIAL.
UM, SOME OF THESE OTHERS SUCH AS CARWASH, UM, ARE ALLOWED ONLY BY SUP AND COMMUNITY RETAIL, UM, AND THEN MAJOR AUTOMOTIVE AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR.
THAT'S YOUR COLLISION REPAIR, UM, TRANSMISSION REPAIR BODY WORK.
THAT'S NOT ALLOWED AT ALL ON COMMUNITY RETAIL AND BY SUP AND LIGHT COMMERCIAL.
AND THEN BY RIGHT ONLY IN HEAVY COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL.
SO WHERE DOES, AND BRIAN CORRECT ME IF MY INFORMATION IS OUT OF DATE, BUT I BELIEVE THE TEXAS, UH, FRANCHISE LAWS STILL STATE THAT A MANUFACTURER CANNOT SELL A VEHICLE DIRECTLY IN TEXAS.
IT HAS TO GO THROUGH A DEALERSHIP.
SO WHERE WOULD A TESLA SHOWROOM FALL? BECAUSE TECHNICALLY THAT'S NOT SALES, IT'S JUST A SHOWROOM.
I BELIEVE IN THE F WHEN, UM, SIMON CAME THROUGH LAST YEAR, THIS CAME UP AND I BELIEVE WE DID CONSIDER IT AUTO SALES, UH, INDOORS ONLY.
WE CONDITIONED IT VERY TIGHTLY TO, I REMEMBER, YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT IN FIREWALL THERE, THEY'VE GOT IT ON THERE, BUT, UM, SO WHAT DOES THAT FALL UNDER THOSE THAT FALL FOR, FOR OUR SAKE? IT FALLS UNDER SALES, I WOULD SAY SALES.
AUTO SALES, NEW OR USED? UM, YES, SIR.
BUT AGAIN, IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, UM, THESE USES ARE NOT LISTED EXCEPT AS REFERRED TO, UM, AND, AND CONDITIONED BY THE AUTO DOWNTOWN AUTO OVERLAY, UH, JUST SHOWED THE USE MATRIX.
SO, UM, AS MENTIONED AND POINTED OUT IN THE AUDIT AND AS REPORTED TO THE AUDIT COMMITTEE AND THE FULL COUNCIL, THERE ARE CHALLENGES WITH THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE PROGRAM.
UM, THERE'S BUSINESSES THAT KIND OF COME INTO THE RADAR, UH, THAT DON'T NECESSARILY GET A CEO, OR THEY IT'S BEEN FOUND THAT THEY'VE EXPANDED BEYOND THEIR ORIGINAL AND APPROVED FOOTPRINT THAT THEY RECEIVED CREDIT FOR.
UM, THAT CERTAINLY, AS I UNDERSTAND, MS VAN HORN IS HERE AS THE BUILDING INSPECTION DEPARTMENT ADMINISTERS THAT, BUT, UH, UH, SEEMS TO BE A VERY LABOR INTENSIVE, UM, UH, PROGRAM TO ADMINISTER, UH, WITHOUT THE NECESSARY OR DESIRED KIND OF TOOLS AND SOFTWARE AND TRACKING SYSTEMS TO, UM, TO HANDLE THAT.
SO SOME OPTIONS TO CONSIDER, OF COURSE, THERE'S KEEPING AUTO OVERLAY IN PLACE AND WORKING THROUGH KIND OF IMPROVING, UH, ADMIN, THE ADMINISTRATION OF THAT PROGRAM.
UH, BUT THIS OTHER OPTION, UH, JUST SPOKE WITH MR. ENGLAND EARLIER, UH, UH TODAY'S SO THIS CAN CERTAINLY BE A CONVERSATION ON KIND OF WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE, UH, BUT KIND OF CONSIDERING RETHINKING HOW THE AUTO OVERLAY IS HANDLED AND KIND OF STEPPING BACK AND ASKING OURSELVES, WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL? WHAT ARE WE REALLY TRYING TO ACHIEVE LONG-TERM WITH THIS AREA AS IT RELATES TO AUTO USES AND, UM, IS THE CURRENT PROGRAM, UM, EFFECTIVELY, UM, UM, SORT OF IMPLEMENTING
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THAT OR IS THERE ANOTHER WAY TO DO SO? SO ONE IDEA IS THROUGH A SPECIFIC USE PROVISIONS SUP'S, WHICH, UM, CERTAINLY ARE, UM, DOCUMENTED VERY, VERY CLEARLY.THEY ARE ENDED UP WITH THE, THEY END UP WITH AN ORDINANCE, UH, TYPICALLY WITH A TIME PERIOD OR IF THERE'S NOT A TIME PERIOD, IT'S VERY EXPLICITLY WRITTEN THAT WAY INTO THE ORDINANCE.
THEY'RE TIED TO A SPECIFIC, UH, PROPERTY WITH A LEGAL DESCRIPTION AND USUALLY WITH A SITE PLAN THAT WE KIND OF ATTACH TO THE ORDINANCE.
SO IT'S, IT'S TYPICALLY VERY CLEAR ON WHAT, UM, WHAT THE SUP IS ISSUED FOR, FOR HOW LONG, WHAT EXACT PROPERTY ADDRESSES, THAT SORT OF THING, WHAT BOUNDARIES.
SO THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT, UM, CAN BE CONSIDERED IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO, UM, ADMINISTER MORE EASILY, SOMETHING THAT STAFF IS VERY ACCUSTOMED TO DOING ALREADY.
OF COURSE, WE'VE BEEN DOING A BETTER JOB THIS LAST YEAR OR TWO OF, KIND OF KEEPING UP WITH THE RENEWALS EXPLORATIONS AND BRINGING THOSE FORWARD AS, AS NEEDED.
UM, BUT, UM, BUT THAT THIS CAN COME WITH A TIME PERIOD PERHAPS, UM, SOMETHING WE CAN CERTAINLY TALK THROUGH, BUT, UM, UH, BUT KIND OF ISSUING SUP'S THROUGHOUT THIS OVERLAY WITH A CERTAIN TIME PERIOD ON HOW LONG THESE USES ARE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE UNDER THAT SUP AND, UM, WHEN THEY SHOULD ESSENTIALLY VACATE.
SO, UM, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'LL LEAVE OFF MR. CHAIRMAN AND CERTAINLY OPENED UP TO DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE.
SINCE THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY IS IN MY DISTRICT.
UM, AND SINCE THE AUDIT SHOWED QUITE CLEARLY THAT IT HAS NOT BEEN EFFECTIVE AT ALL.
AND IN FACT, WE HAVE AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESSES GROWING RATHER THAN THE PLANNED, UH, GLIDE DOWN OF GRADUAL REDUCTION, UM, YOU KNOW, FORGETTING ABOUT HOW WE GOT HERE AND WHY THIS WASN'T ENFORCED AND SO ON.
UM, THE, THE BIG QUESTION IN TALKING WITH JED WAS WE HAVE ALL OF THESE BUSINESSES THAT ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE.
UH, WE HAVE OTHER BUSINESSES THAT WERE GIVEN CEO'S WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THAT'S ON US.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH THEM NOW? THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT WAS THERE.
SO, UM, CAN WE, AT THIS POINT, CAN, CAN WE COME IN AND DROP AN SUP ON AN EXISTING BUSINESS THAT HAS A CEO WITHOUT ONE? YES.
UM, IT'S, UH, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF WAYS WE COULD DO THAT.
UM, ONE IS IF FOR WHATEVER SUP WE GRANT IT WOULD BE, I WOULD RECOMMEND EXTENDING THAT OUT AN EXPIRATION PERIOD OF AT 20 YEARS, THE FURTHER OUT WE GET IN 20 20TH, MORE THAN SUFFICIENT, AND 15 IS PROBABLY ADEQUATE.
UM, YOU JUST NEED TO EXTEND IT OUT FAR ENOUGH FOR ANY BUSINESS OWNER WHO HAD INVESTED MONEY INTO THEIR BUSINESS.
AND THEY, WITH THE EXPECTATION OF GETTING A RETURN ON THAT MONEY, WE JUST HAVE TO EXTEND IT OUT FAR ENOUGH TO WHERE THEY GET THEIR, THEIR, UM, UM, FINANCIALLY BACKED EXPECTATIONS MET.
AND SO 20 YEARS W W IT WAS A FAIRLY SAFE NUMBER.
IT WOULD BE A CONSERVATIVE NUMBER.
IT'S THE NUMBER THAT WOULD PROBABLY RECOMMEND IN THESE CASES, IF THAT'S WHAT COUNCIL WANTED TO DO, BUT YOU CAN CERTAINLY DO WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST AND JUST SAY, OKAY, UM, WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GETTING RID OF THE CREDIT PROGRAM.
AND EVERYBODY WHO HASN'T BEEN ISSUED CREDITS WILL BE ISSUED AN SUP FOR 20 YEARS, AND THAT'S ENOUGH TIME TO COVER, UM, ANY, UM, POTENTIAL REAL THREAT OR EXPOSURE ON THE BA ON THE CITY OF ANY CLAIMS THAT WE'VE STOLEN.
SOMEBODY WHO'S FINANCIALLY BACKED EXPECTATIONS ON THEM.
UM, AND SO THAT'S ONE WAY TO DO IT.
YOU CAN JUST SET IT JUST, SECONDLY, THAT IT HAS CURRENTLY HAS CREDITS ACCORDING TO OUR RECORDS, THEN WE'LL ISSUE AN SUP AND WE'LL PUT THAT IN THE ORDINANCE AND THE ADDRESSES, AND EVEN THE DESCRIPTIONS IF NECESSARY, WHICH IS PROBABLY WOULD BE SINCE SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES THAT HAVE EXPANDED THEIR FOOTPRINT AND THE ADDRESS MAY NOT BE A GOOD ENOUGH SYSTEM IN THESE CASES TO JUST DESCRIBE WHAT BUSINESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, OR DESCRIBE WHERE THE, WHAT SUP THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SUP, UH, WOULD BE.
UM, UH, ANOTHER ONE IS, IS TO CONSIDER JUST SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE LOOKING AT AS OF AUGUST THE 14TH, 15TH, UM, AS OF AUGUST THE 15TH, WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE WHAT BUSINESSES ARE OPERATIONAL RIGHT NOW, WHAT AUTOMOTIVE USES ARE OPERATIONAL RIGHT NOW, WHETHER YOU HAVE CREDITS OR NOT, WE'RE WIPING THE SLATE CLEAN.
WE'RE GONNA GIVE EVERYBODY WHO'S OPERATING ONE RIGHT NOW, AN SUP, AND I'M NOT RECOMMENDING ANY OF THESE, BY THE WAY, I'M JUST GIVING OPTIONS.
WE'LL GIVE EVERYONE AN SEP FOR 20 YEARS, WHETHER YOU HAVE A CREDIT OR NOT.
OF COURSE, THE THIRD OPTION WOULD BE LIKE, THE FIRST IS SAYING, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A, IF YOU DON'T HAVE, UM, UH, AUTOMOTIVE CREDITS,
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THEN YOU SHOULD NOT BE OPERATING YOUR BUSINESS.EVEN IF YOU, WE ISSUE YOUR PERMIT, YOU'RE OPERATING UNLAWFULLY.
AND, UM, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO COME THROUGH THE SUP PROCESS AND APPLY FOR AN SGP, UM, AND LET THE COUNCIL MAKE A DETERMINATION OF WHETHER OR NOT THAT LAND JUICE IS APPROPRIATE OR NOT.
AND, UM, THAT COMBINATION MIGHT BE THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO CARRY OUT THE LONGTERM VISION OF THE AUTOMOBILE USES AND INTO THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
BUT HAVING SAID THAT, THAT WILL COME WITH SOME CONTROVERSY AND YOU CAN EXPECT PEOPLE SHOWING UP TO COUNCIL MEETINGS AND, UM, UM, EXPRESSING THEIR DISPLEASURE WITH THAT.
UM, BUT, BUT Y'ALL KNOW THAT Y'ALL SEEING THAT IT'D BE SIMILAR TO THE CASE THAT WE HEARD ON FOREST LANE.
AND HAVING SAID THAT IN 20 YEARS, THE COUNCIL IN 20 YEARS AS THESE SUP'S EXPIRE, UM, UM, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THE CHOICE ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GONNA RENEW THOSE SVPS OR NOT.
AND IN MY EXPERIENCE, I HAVEN'T SEEN COUNSEL TOO MANY TIMES TO NOT RENEW SUP'S, ALTHOUGH Y'ALL DID DO THAT LAST YEAR FOR A RECYCLING CENTER THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I'D EVER SEEN THAT DONE, QUITE FRANKLY.
AND SO, UM, SO THIS COUNCIL HAS SHOWN AN APPETITE TO DO IT.
IF THE COUNCIL IN 20 YEARS WILL DO IT, I DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT'S REALLY NOT.
THAT'S REALLY NOTHING THAT WE CAN CONTROL.
SO, BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S KIND OF YOUR OPTIONS.
SO YOU'RE THINKING YOU MENTIONED A 15 YEAR, DO YOU FEEL LIKE THAT'S MORE LEGALLY RISKY SLIGHTLY, BUT AGAIN, UM, I THINK THAT 15 IS FAR ENOUGH OUT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A CHANCE TO RECOVER THEIR, UH, THEIR, UM, INVESTMENT.
AND, AND ON THAT NOTE, I THINK WHAT WE ALSO, WHILE WE'RE ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE LACK IN THE GDC THAT MOST CITIES HAVE IS A GENERAL AMORTIZATION SCHEDULE FOR LAND USES THAT, UM, UM, THE CITY BASICALLY WANTS TO, UM, GO AWAY OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.
WE HAVE A, UM, AN ABILITY TO IT FOR SIGNS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN ABILITY TO DO IT FOR LAND JESUS.
SO ALONG THAT NOTE, WE PROBABLY SHOULD COME IN ALONGSIDE THIS AND ALSO, UM, LOOK AT THE GDC TO INCLUDE A GENERAL AMORTIZATION LAND USE SCHEDULE.
SO, UM, IF WE WERE TO DO, AND I, I'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF FEEDBACK ON THIS AND YOU ALL MAY HAVE SEEN SOME OF IT, BUT I'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF IT ON THE, ON THE BACK LINE AND ON THE PHONE.
UM, AND OVERALL IT'S A SAD THING, BUT THERE'S, THERE'S REALLY NOT A PUBLIC, UM, ADVOCACY FOR EXTENDING THOSE AUTOMOTIVE USES IN THE DOWNTOWN.
THERE IS NOT A GROUP THAT'S SAYING YOU NEED TO DO THIS.
THERE'S A HUGE GROUP SAYING, MAKE IT STOP.
SO, UM, AND WE DON'T RULE BY MOB, BUT DOING WHAT'S FAIR.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S ON US THAT WE GAVE CEO'S INAPPROPRIATELY WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN GIVEN THAT'S OUR PROBLEM, BUT THERE ARE A FAIR NUMBER OF THOSE BUSINESSES THAT JUST BOUGHT AN ADJACENT LOT, GOT NOTHING, AND THEN JUST STARTED USING IT.
SO I GUESS WHERE I'M FALLING ON THIS BEING FAIR, IF WE, IF WE SAY, OKAY, IF YOU HAD A CREDIT AUTO, AN AUTOMOTIVE OVERLAY CREDIT, IF WE GAVE YOU A CEO, WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU AN SUP, I WOULD HOPE FOR 15 YEARS, RATHER THAN 20, BUT IF, IF YOU JUST EXPANDED OUT, NO PERMIT, NO NOTHING.
YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT FOR THAT LOT.
UM, THERE ARE QUITE A FEW OF THEM.
SO I GUESS MY, MY FIRST TAKE ON THAT WOULD BE TO DO THAT.
AND, AND, AND CERTAINLY IF WE'RE MISSING AN AMORTIZATION SCHEDULE FOR LAND USES, THAT SEEMS VERY SENSIBLE TO ME THAT WE SHOULD PLUG THAT HOLE.
SO, UM, I GUESS THOSE ARE MY FIRST THOUGHTS, MR. CHAIR.
FOR A, UM, JUST REAL QUICK HERE FOR A LAND USE EMIRATISATION IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU GUYS CAN JUST DO? OR IS THAT SOMETHING WE NEED TO PUT ON AN AGENDA? YES, IT'LL HAVE TO GO TO AN AGENDA.
AND BASICALLY THE STATE LAW REQUIRES THAT THE COUNCIL FOR EACH PARTICULAR PROPERTY, YOU COULDN'T DO AN ENTIRE ZONE, BUT FOR EACH PARTICULAR PROPERTY THAT YOU WANT TO AMORTIZE OUT, THE COUNCIL HAS TO MAKE CERTAIN FINDINGS ABOUT THE APPROPRIATE AND APPROPRIATENESS OF THE LAND, USE DEVELOPMENT AROUND THE LAND USE AND WINES.
SO THERE ARE SEVERAL FINDINGS BY STATUTE THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD HAVE TO MAKE FOR EACH ONE, BUT PASSING THE ORDINANCE UPFRONT ALLOWS YOU TO GO TO THE PROCESS OF MAKING THOSE FINDINGS.
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DOES.AND THEN ALSO ON THE, UM, SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M HEARING EVERYTHING CORRECTLY.
SO BUSINESSES WHO WERE NON, WHOEVER BASICALLY DON'T HAVE A CEO OF NON-COMPLIANT ONES, SO THEY DON'T HAVE A CREDIT.
SO I THINK WHAT, AND WILL, CAN CORRECT ME OR, OR, OR, UM, MS. SMITH, MS. VAN HORN CAN CORRECT ME.
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED FOR A LOT OF THEM IS THEY CAME IN, THEY GOT A CREDIT IN 2004, 2005, WHENEVER IT WAS.
AND THEN AT SOME POINT THEY BOUGHT THE PROPERTY NEXT TO THEM, AND THEN THEY JUST USE THAT PARKING LOT IN THE PROPERTY NEXT TO HIM AS PART OF THEIR BUSINESS.
SO THEY EXPANDED THE FOOTPRINT OF THEIR BUSINESS, WHERE THEY WERE STORING CARS AND KEEPING CARS.
AND SO EFFECTIVELY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WOULD BE THE PORTION THAT, WHICH THEY WERE GIVEN LAND CREDIT, LAND USE CREDITS, THEY WOULD STILL BE, THEY'D BE THAT PORTION WOULD BE ISSUED THE SUP THE PORTION OUTSIDE OF THAT, WHERE THEY JUST KIND OF BOUGHT THE PROPERTY AND JUST EXPANDED THE BUSINESS THAT WOULDN'T NOT HAVE AN SVP.
AND SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME IN IF THEY WANTED TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT AND APPLY FOR AN SUP FOR THAT.
SO IN THAT CASE, THAT LEADS ME TO MY NEXT QUESTION.
SO THE, FOR THE ONES WHO ARE, WHO DON'T HAVE CREDIT, BUT ARE USING IT FOR AUTOMOTIVE USE, UM, CAN WE PUT A TIME LIMIT ON THE AMOUNT OF TIME THEY HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE SUP? WELL, WE COULD CERTAINLY, WE COULD DO IT ANYTIME WE WANTED TO, BECAUSE THEY'RE OPERATING QUITE FRANKLY, WE COULD GO OUT TODAY AND WRITE THEM CITATIONS FOR THE SITUATION.
SO WE COULD SAY, YOU'VE GOT 60 DAYS TO DO THIS 60 DAYS.
WE'RE GONNA START WRITING CITATIONS.
SO I WOULD PROBABLY BE FOR, UM, I THINK PROBABLY WELL, OKAY.
AND ALSO ON THE 15 VERSUS 20 YEARS, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH THE CAPITAL EXPENDITURES THEY'RE PUTTING IN THERE, I WOULD SAY 15 YEARS IS PROBABLY FINE.
I MEAN, I MEAN, DEPENDING ON THE CAPITAL EXPENDITURE, MOST BUSINESSES, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU PUT MONEY INTO IT, YOU PLAN ON GETTING THAT CAPITAL BACK.
I MEAN, ME PERSONALLY WITHIN FOUR YEARS, SO I, I THINK 15 YEARS IS GENEROUS AS WELL.
UM, AND SO I WOULD BE, I WOULD BE INCLINED TO LEAN ON THE LOWER END, UH
AND, UM, LOOK, COUNCIL, LADY MORRIS SAID I WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T WANT TO HOLD IT AGAINST PEOPLE FOR SOMETHING THAT WE DID WRONG.
YOU KNOW, IF WE GAVE THEM A CEO, WE NEED TO RESPECT THAT AND TREAT THAT AS IF IT WERE ISSUED PROPERLY FOR THE PROPER USE.
UM, SO I WOULD BE INCLINED TO LOOK AT THAT THE SAME WAY AS SOMEONE WHO IS IN COMPLIANCE AND THEN, UH, ANYTHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY JUST OPENED A BUSINESS OR EXPANDED THEIR BUSINESS WITHOUT GETTING THE PROPER CEO, I WOULD BE INCLINED TO, UM, MAKE THEM APPLY FOR AN SUV FOR THAT.
SO I THINK THAT MY OPINION ALIGNS PERFECTLY WITH DIVERSE.
I WANT TO KNOW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THE CREDIT AND RECORDS, KEEPING ALL OF THAT.
LIKE WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME A CREDIT WAS TRANSFERRED THAT WE KNOW ABOUT WHEN WAS THAT WHEN THE PROGRAM STARTED A LITTLE MORE HISTORY ON THAT, IF YOU WILL, UH, JUST BECAUSE I'M HEARING THAT OUR RECORDS ARE POOR, HOW DO WE EVEN KNOW WHO HAS CREDITS RIGHT NOW? IS THERE A MASTER DATABASE OF PROPERTIES OR UNANSWERED QUESTIONS AROUND THAT? WELL, AND BRITA MAY NEED TO HELP OUT, BUT WHAT, WHEN AUDIT WENT THROUGH ALL THE RECORDS WE LOOKED AT WAS WE, WE CREATED AN ORIGINAL SPREADSHEET BACK IN 2005, THEN THAT LISTED THE 61 BUSINESSES THAT HAD CREDITS AT THE TIME.
SO THAT WAS SORT OF OUR BASE DATA TO WORK FROM, UH, WHERE WE WENT FROM.
THERE WAS WE, WE TOOK ALL THOSE BUSINESSES, LOOKED AT WHERE THEY'RE AT RIGHT NOW.
DID THEY EXPAND, DID THEY NOT? AND THEN LOOKED AT CEO'S THAT WERE GIVEN, UM, UTILITY ACCOUNTS BECAUSE THERE THERE'S A PROVISION THERE THAT IF THEY BASICALLY GO, UM, UH, IF THEY CHANGE NAMES, CHANGE NAMES UNDER THE BUSINESS, OR, UM, GO VACANT FOR 60 DAYS, THERE'S THERE'S IMPLICATIONS THERE.
SO WE LOOKED AT BASICALLY WHAT WAS ON THE GROUND IN 2005, WHAT'S HERE NOW, AND THEN TRY TO FILL IN THE BLANKS FROM THERE.
SO WE, WE HAVE QUITE AN EXTENSIVE DATABASE NOW OF ALL THE 81, 61 BUSINESSES, BUT 81 ADDRESSES THAT ARE, UH, THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS.
AND HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH ACREAGE THAT COVERS OF 61? UM, IT WAS 860,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO YOUR 20 ACRES, I THINK IS IF I'M, AND THAT MAY JUST BE, IT WAS BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE LOT, RIGHT.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE 953 ACROSS THE CITY, THIS OVERLAY ACTUALLY COVERS A TINY FRACTION OF WHAT'S WHAT'S OUT THERE.
SO THIS IS THE QUESTION THEN REALLY FOR THE COMMUNITY TOO, WE'RE LOOKING AT JUST IN THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY DISTRICT.
[00:30:01]
IS THAT, UH, SOMETHING THAT THE COMMITTEE WOULD LIKE TO ENTERTAIN, OR WE JUST FOCUS ON THE DOWNTOWN AREA AT THIS POINT, I KNOW UP AND DOWN COLLEGE AVENUE, THERE'S MANY, MANY MORE THAT IT DOESN'T, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY IN THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY DISTRICT, BUT THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T HAVE THE CREDIT PROGRAM RIGHT NOW.AND THE OVERLAY IS JUST THE LIGHT BLUE AND THAT, UM, OH, UH, YES, SIR.
HERE'S THE WATER OVER HERE? YES, SIR.
SO YOU'RE BASICALLY GONNA TALKING ABOUT EXTENDING THE CREDIT SYSTEM, THE DAO ACROSS THE CITY, OR, WELL, I THINK MR. GARRETT SAID EARLIER, WHAT DO WE WANT TO DECIDE? WHAT'S OUR GOAL IN ALL OF THIS, IS IT TO ELIMINATE THESE USES, IS IT TO KEEP THEM A CONSISTENT NUMBER? IS IT GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL NUMBER OF USES AND BACK WHEN IT ORIGINAL CREDITS WERE ISSUED? SO WELL, I KNOW IF WE ASK THE CITIZENS WHAT THEY'LL SAY, ABSOLUTELY, BUT THEN WILL THE OWNERS COME IN HERE? AS SOON AS WE DO THAT, I MEAN, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE GENTLEMEN ON FOREST.
SO IN MY OPINION, I DON'T WANT TO PULL, IF WE HAD PROBLEMS IMPLEMENTING THIS CREDIT SYSTEM, I DON'T WANT TO PULL RIGHTS THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD, AND THAT THEY'VE BEEN OPERATING WITH.
I'M, I'M FINE WITH GIVING CREDITS TO PEOPLE WHO ARE OPERATING RIGHT NOW AS A BUSINESS.
W REGARDLESS, I'M FINE WITH GRANTING AN SUP TO THE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW WHO HAVE CREDITS OPERATING IN, NOT WHO HAVE CREDITS, WHO ARE OPERATING EITHER WITH, OR WITHOUT CREDITS, GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET AN SUP IN THIS OVERLAY DISTRICT.
UM, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST BECAUSE OUR RECORD KEEPING IN OUR, UH, SYSTEM WAS POOR.
I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BE PUNISHED SO THEORETICALLY IN 20 YEARS, I CAN START PULLING THEM.
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE ACTUALLY PULLED IN SUP IN OUR PULLED A CEO BECAUSE OF AN EXPIRED SUP? NOPE.
I THINK WE HAVE PULLED IN A CEO BECAUSE OF AN EXPIRED SEP TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
WE JUST, WE NOTIFY THEM AND, UM, UM, THEY THEY'LL COME FORWARD, UH, UH, AS FAR AS ACTUALLY POST, AS THEY EVER HAVE EVER SAID, NOPE, WE'RE IN OUR NONRESPONSIVE AND NATURALLY, WELL, WHAT HAPPENED WITH THIS? AND THEY'VE DRAGGED THEIR FEET.
AND IT HAS TO BE A CODE COMPLIANCE CONVERSATION WITH THEM THAT WE KIND OF HANDED OFF TO CODE COMPLIANCE AT THAT POINT BEYOND JUST GETTING A LETTER OR A PHONE CALL FROM PLANNING.
BUT, UM, UH, I, I DON'T, I'M NOT AWARE OF A SITUATION WHERE WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD TO GO THAT THEY'VE USUALLY EITHER COME IN OR DOWN ANOTHER, I THINK PULLING A CEO AND A CODE COMPLIANCE CASE ARE SOMEWHAT SIMILAR AS FAR AS THE ENFORCEMENT PROCESS.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE THINGS THAT WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE GDC BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF RENEWAL WOULD HAVE, I'M SURE.
GONE TO CODE COMPLIANCE TO PUSH THEM.
I'M NOT SURE IT'S GONE THAT FAR.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ISSUED CITATIONS, BUT THEN THEY COME INTO COMPLIANCE BEFORE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO TAKE THEM TO SAY COURT, YOU KNOW, IT HASN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR.
IT IS A LENGTHY PROCESS EITHER WAY YOU WOULD GO, IF YOU HAD TO REALLY PUSH SOMEBODY TO THAT EXTENT.
UM, YEAH, I'M, I'M ON THE, IT'D BE MORE LENIENT TO THESE UPPER EAST USES OPERATING CURRENTLY 20 YEARS IS FINE BY ME.
UM, THAT'S WHERE I'M SAYING RIGHT NOW, UH, WITH ME NOT WITH YOU.
I WOULD, I WOULD, YOU KNOW, I'D WANT TO LEAN ON THE SHORTER TIME PERIOD, JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT OUR PLANS ARE FOR DOWNTOWN IN DOWNTOWN AREA AND HOW IT'S GOING TO GROW.
I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT THERE FOR THE COMMITTEE.
ONE THING THAT WE COULD DO, YOU KNOW, IN PREPARATION FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION, UH, WE HAVE THE SPREADSHEET OF ALL THE 6 81 ADDRESS IS 61 BUSINESSES THAT ARE OUT THERE.
UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE WANT TO BASICALLY CATEGORIZE EACH ONE BASED ON, UH, WHETHER THEY HAD CREDITS THEY GET AN AUTOMATIC SUP OR IF THEY DON'T, UH, WEATHER, NOT NECESSARILY OUR FAULT, BUT THEIR FAULT.
THEY DIDN'T COME IN AND APPLY FOR A CEO OR GET A CEO THERE.
THEN THAT'S A SITUATION THEY HAVE TO APPLY FOR AN SUP.
SO I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A GOOD SENSE FOR HOW MANY OUT OF THOSE 81 ARE IN EACH CATEGORY.
I THINK WE HAVE A FIELD FOR A VERY PRECISE CHART.
WELL, AND WE, BUT AS FAR AS LIKE WHAT WE DO WITH THEM, UM, I THINK IF WE, WE COULD SHOW YOU THAT, SO YOU GET SOME SENSE AND WE'LL LEAVE THE ADDRESSES OUT, BUT AT LEAST SO YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, OUT OF THE 81 ADDRESSES, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GIVEN 40 SU WHATEVER THE NUMBERS ARE, WE CAN AT LEAST YOU'LL HAVE SOME SENSE FOR WHAT THAT EFFORT LOOKS LIKE MOVING FORWARD.
UM, IF THE COMMITTEE WANTS, WE COULD GO TO THAT NEXT
[00:35:01]
STEP AND DO THAT.I'D LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE MORE ON THAT, ON THAT.
JED ALREADY HAS ALL THAT CHARTED OUT BUSINESS BY BUSINESS ADDRESS BY ADDRESS WHAT THEIR STATUS IS.
IF THEY ORIGINALLY HAD A CREDIT, IF THEY LATER WERE GIVEN A CEO, EVEN THOUGH THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CREDIT, OR IF THEY JUST EXPANDED WITH IT, HE'S GOT ALL THAT.
SO THAT SHOULD BE PRETTY EASY TO DRAW FROM.
UM, YEAH, IT, IT WOULDN'T HURT.
AND AGAIN, KEEPING THIS CONVERSATION ON THE, THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY BECAUSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE DOWNTOWN AND BECAUSE OF WRONG, STRONG PUBLIC RESPONSE, UM, PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT WE HAD THIS UNDER CONTROL BECAUSE OF THE AUTOMOTIVE OVERLAY PROGRAM FROM LONG AGO, UM, AND ARE FURIOUS THAT WE DIDN'T ENFORCE ANY OF IT FOR ALL THESE YEARS.
UM, I'M JUST, I, I'M NOT FEELING GOING ANY LONGER THAN 15 YEARS IF THAT MEETS SENSIBLE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS.
BUT AGAIN, IF WE GAVE HIM A CEO ON US, IF THEY ACTED WITHOUT CREDITS OR CEO ON THEM, AND IT'S UP TO THEM TO, TO PROVE UP TO COUNCIL THAT THEY NEED AN SUV AND SUP AND SHOULD A SUV, MAYBE THEY DO NEED AN SUV AND THEY CAN SELL IT TO THEMSELVES.
AND AS, AND CANAM CAN GO FROM THERE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE, THE INVESTMENTS, THE THING ABOUT CAR LOTS, UM, AND THAT THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY TRUE WITH, WITH REPAIR SHOPS, BUT MOST OF THESE ARE CAR LOTS.
UM, THEIR, THEIR INVESTMENTS ROLE.
IT ISN'T LIKE THEY'RE BUILDING BUILDINGS.
IT ISN'T LIKE THEY'RE DOING MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS ON THE SITE.
THAT'S NOT THE KIND OF INVESTMENT THEY'RE PUTTING IN THE GROUND.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT MAKING PERMANENT INVESTMENTS.
THEY'RE JUST HAVING THINGS COME AND GO.
SO ANYWAY, UM, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHERE I AM, I'M LANDING ON THAT.
SO I WOULD, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE CHART AND SEE WHO'S, WHO'S DOING WHAT, BUT THAT'S NOT GONNA ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGE WHERE I STAND ON THIS.
UM, I'D LIKE TO SEE THE CHART THEN IN THE NEXT MEETING.
UM, SO INBOX THE AUDITS IN BOX AUDIT.
WELL THEN WE'LL, WE'LL TABLE THIS ITEM THEN TO COME BACK TO THE NEXT MEETING WITH THE CHART AND THEN GET MORE DISCUSSION ON THESE THREE OPTIONS THAT MR. ENGLAND PROVIDED IN.
THERE'S SOME INFORMATION RIGHT HERE THOUGH, THAT YOU WANT ME TO READ IT OFF.
WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU READING FROM AND WHAT IS THAT FROM? FROM THE AUDIT REPORT? YEAH.
IT BREAKS IT DOWN BY CREDITED UNCREDITED, ADDITIONAL ADDRESSES AND ALL THAT.
YOU'LL HAVE, HAVE ACCESS TO THAT AND THAT'S, BUT, UM, TO BRING THAT BACK NEXT TIME, THEN WE CAN ADD, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT THEN GIVE A LITTLE TIME TO THINK ON THESE THREE OPTIONS AS WELL.
WELL, WE'LL TABLE THAT ITEM ITEM TWO EIGHT TILL OUR NEXT MEETING.
AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM TWO B CONSIDER AMENDING THE GARLAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO PROHIBIT AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESSES FROM UTILIZING OFFSITE PARKING IN A PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE USES.
CAN I STAY HERE? I'M GOING TO STAY HERE.
UM, THIS IS ONE THAT, UM, UM, THAT PURE PROTEIN MORRIS ASKED US TO LOOK AT, UM, CONCERNING SOME ISSUES THAT SHE'S ENCOUNTERING SOME COMPLAINTS THAT SHE'S RECEIVED AS MANY, I THINK AS PROBABLY MOST COUNCIL, UM, UM, UH, PERSONS HAVE, IF THEY HAVE THESE TYPE OF AUTOMOBILE USES IN THEIR DISTRICT, UM, THE ISSUE OF PEOPLE PARKING OR EMPLOYEES, PARKING CUSTOMER'S VEHICLES ON PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS, PRIMARILY, UH, JOINING THESE USES, BUT ALSO JUST ON PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAYS, RIGHT NEXT TO THE USE TO WHERE IT'S CAUSING AN OVERCROWDING PARKING SITUATION IN BOTH THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS AND ALSO IN THE STREETS THAT ACCESS THOSE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND SO ONE OF THE WAYS TO ADDRESS THIS, I SHOULD SAY UP FRONT THAT THIS PARTICULAR, UM, UM, I GUESS, STRATEGY TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM IS NOT A STRATEGY, YOUR TYPICAL PARKING ENFORCEMENT STRATEGY, WHERE MARSHALL GOES OUT, TAKES A PICTURE OF THE VIOLATION AND THEN TREATS IT AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE VIOLATION BECAUSE THIS PARTICULAR VIOLATION IS GOING TO REQUIRE SOME ACTUAL WORK TO BE DONE, TO PROVE UP THE VIOLATION.
IT'S NOT JUST THAT THE CAR IS PARKED THERE, BUT THE OFFICER HAS TO SHOW THAT HOW THE CAR GOT THERE, WHO PARKED THE CAR.
THERE IS THIS CAR ASSOCIATED WITH THE BUSINESS.
AND, UM, AND SO THIS IS MEANT AS A TOOL, NOT FOR EVERYDAY ENFORCEMENT, BECAUSE
[00:40:01]
QUITE FRANKLY, THAT WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE.IT'S KIND OF, IT'S MEANT FOR A TOOL TO WHERE IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM LOCATION, YOU HAVE ONE PARTICULAR BUSINESS WHO'S CONTINUALLY PARKING CUSTOMERS, UM, UM, CARS IN NEIGHBORING NEIGHBORHOODS AND HAS BEEN GIVEN A WARNING ABOUT IT, BUT CONTINUES TO DO IT.
THEN THAT MIGHT BECOME A SPECIALIZED PROJECT.
AND THIS IS JUST A TOOL FOR THAT SCENARIO AND NOT FOR EVERYDAY ENFORCEMENT, BECAUSE IT'D BE TOO DIFFICULT TO FORCE THIS AS AN EVERYDAY ENFORCEMENT, IT'D BE, HAVE TO BE ALMOST COMPLAINT DRIVEN.
UM, AND SO AS LONG AS THE COUNCIL UNDERSTANDS THAT ASPECT OF IT, AND DOESN'T HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT BUILDING INSPECTION AND CODE ENFORCEMENT CAN GO OUT AND ENFORCE ANYTIME THERE'S A COMPLAINT.
UM, UM, THAT'S NOT THE CASE BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT WILL REQUIRE A, EITHER A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR A BUILDING OFFICIAL OR A POLICE OFFICER, OR A MARSHALL COULD HAND WRITE THE TICKET.
I SUPPOSE IT WOULD REQUIRE THEM TO SIT AND WATCH AND MAKE SOME OBSERVATIONS ABOUT HOW THE CAR GOT PARKED THERE, HOW LONG IT'S BEEN THERE AND WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.
AND, UM, AND THAT'LL BE THE DIFFICULT PART.
UM, SO AGAIN, JUST SETTING EXPECTATIONS LOW IN THAT REGARD IN ENFORCEMENT AND NOT WANTING EVERYONE TO THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY FIX THE PROBLEM.
CAUSE IT CERTAINLY WON'T LIKE MOST PARKING PROBLEMS. IT'S A COMPLICATED MATTER.
UM, BUT IF YOU GO TO SUBSECTION H AND 2.52, THIS IS JUST SPECIAL STANDARDS FOR CERTAIN USES.
AND THIS IS A SPECIAL PARKING STANDARD ON STREET PARKING STANDARD FOR AUTOMOBILE USES AUTOMOTIVE USES.
AND IT SAYS THAT IF YOU HAVE A VEHICLE THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH AN AUTOMOTIVE USE, AND THEN IT GIVES A DEFINITION OF WHAT ASSOCIATED MEANS, THEN YOU CAN'T PARK THAT VEHICLE WITHIN A PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY ASSOCIATED MEANS A VEHICLE THAT IS OWNED OR IN THE CARE CUSTODY OR CONTROL OF THE AUTOMO AUTOMOTIVE USE BUSINESS OR OWNED OPERATED, OR IN CARE CUSTODY OR CONTROL OF A PATRON GUEST, INVITEE CUSTOMER, AGENT, EMPLOYEE, OR OWNER OF THE AUTOMOTIVE VIEW'S BUSINESS OR OWNED OPERATED, OR IN THE CARE CUSTODY OR CONTROL OF ANY OTHER PERSON WHO IS PARTICIPATING IN COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY WITH AN AUTOMOTIVE USE BUSINESS.
AND THOSE THREE, UM, CATEGORIES CAPTURE ALMOST EVERY CAPTURE, ANY VEHICLE I COULD THINK OF WHY IT WOULD BE PARKED THERE WHILE BEING ASSOCIATED WITH THE BUSINESS.
AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE STRATEGY WITH OF IT.
I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS AND QUESTIONS.
I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, BUT JUST, UM, UH, COMMITTEE MEMBERS YOU'LL SEE YET AGAIN ON TOMORROW NIGHT'S AGENDA, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE, UH, AN ADDITIONAL TRANSPORTATION AGENDA ITEM FOR ADDING MORE, NO PARKING SIGNS TO SCOTT, WHICH IS FAMILIAR BECAUSE THIS IS AN AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESS AT THE CORNER OF SCOTT AND MILLER, THAT WAS MAKING A VERY DANGEROUS INTERSECTION THERE.
SO THEY MOVED TO THE NEXT BLOCK AND SORT OF BLEEDING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO THE TWO BLOCKS LEADING UP TO THE STOP SIGN NOW ARE A HAZARDOUS SITUATION.
SO TRANSPORTATION IS, UM, PLAYING TO PUT, MAKE THAT NOTE, NO PARKING, THE, UM, AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESS THERE AT THE CORNER HAS BEEN WARNED, HAS BEEN TALKED TO, HAS BEEN CAUTIONED.
THEY USE EVERY INCH OF THEIR PARKING LOT.
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR CUSTOMERS TO PARK THERE AND THEY COME, UM, EVERY MORNING AND GATHER ALL THE CARS AND LINE THEM UP TO RUN THEM THROUGH WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING AND THEN PARK THEM RIGHT BACK ON THE STREETS.
SO I DON'T THINK IT WOULD TAKE A WHOLE LOT OF TIME FOR STAFF JUST TO SIT DOWN AND WATCH THEM COME OPEN THE DOOR AND START WHAT THEY DO.
UM, BUT THIS, UM, LIKE MR. ENGLAND SAID THIS, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A PROACTIVE PATROLLING THE CITY, OR, YOU KNOW, CALLS FROM A CITIZEN AND YOU RUN RIGHT OUT THERE AND YOU HAVE A TICKET.
THIS, THIS WILL BE PROBLEM BUSINESSES.
AND THERE'S A BUNCH OF THEM IN DISTRICT FIVE.
UM, THERE ARE A BUNCH OF THEM IN DISTRICT SIX.
THERE'S PROBABLY, THEY'RE PROBABLY ALL OVER THE CITY, BUT I'M AWARE OF SPECIFIC ONES IN THOSE TWO DISTRICTS THAT ARE CREATING CONTINUAL REPEAT COMPLAINTS FROM ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOODS.
SO THIS WOULD JUST GIVE US SOMETHING TO DO RIGHT NOW.
WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT MAKE STREET AFTER STREET, NON PARKING, WHICH YOU REALLY CAN'T DO WELL IN NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND I THINK IT'S SOLVES A PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE, I QUESTION IS, WOULD THIS PROHIBIT THE OWNER OF THE BUSINESS FROM PARKING HIS PERSONAL VEHICLE ON THE STREET? SO WHAT, OR ANY, ANY OF YOU THERE IS, HOW DO YOU DISTINGUISH HIS PERSONAL VEHICLE AND HIS, AND THE VEHICLES OWNED BY HIM THROUGH THE BUSINESS.
AND SO THAT'S THE DIFFICULTY IS HOW WOULD YOU DISTINGUISH THOSE TWO THINGS
[00:45:01]
OR ANY OF THE EMPLOYEES AS WELL, OR, AND IT'S NOT EVERY AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESS.I WILL SAY, I HAVE A LOT OF AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESSES AND THIS IS NOT ALL OF THEM.
AND THEY DON'T ALL DO THIS, BUT THE ONES THAT DO ARE SERIOUS, SERIOUS OFFENDERS, AND THIS WOULD ENABLE THOSE FEW TO, UM, THEY WOULD EITHER NEED TO PURCHASE AND PROVIDE OTHER PROPERTY TO PARK ON, OR THEY WOULD NEED TO RELOCATE THEIR BUSINESS TO A MORE APPROPRIATE PLACE.
I DON'T HAVE TOO MUCH PROBLEM WITH THIS JUST BECAUSE WHEN WE GO THROUGH OUR SITE PLAN PROCESS, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE PARKING FOR THEIR VIEWS EVERYWHERE.
ANY MORE DISCUSSION LOOKS LIKE AN AGREEMENT, THEN IF WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT, THEN WE CAN GO AHEAD AND BRING THIS ITEM TO COUNCIL.
YEAH, I LIKE IT THE WAY IS OKAY.
WELL, THAT WAS THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA THEN FOR THE AUGUST 15TH, 2022 MEETING OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICE COMMITTEE, WE ARE ADJOURNED.