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IS 2:00 PM.THIS IS A MEETING OF THE CITY GIRL AND ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES COMMITTEE.
I'M CHAIRMAN ROBERT JOHN SMITH.
TODAY I HAVE WITH ME A MAYOR PRO TEM, DEBRA MORRIS COUNCIL MEMBER, DYLAN HEDRICK AND CITY ATTORNEY BRIAN ENGLAND.
UH, FIRST ON THE AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 30TH, 2022 MEETING.
UH, WE'LL ACTUALLY ACTUALLY, UH, EXPECTS, UH, THAT FOREIGN MEMBERS BE ALLOWED TO VOTE ON MINUTES THAT THEY WERE NOT A PART OF.
UH, I USED TO HAVE THE CHAPTER AND VERSE MEMORIZED, SO YOU'RE FREE TO, UH, PARTICIPATE IN THE VOTE OR MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
WE HAVE A, UH, MOTION TO APPROVED BY COUNCIL MEMBER HEDRICK SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM MORRIS, ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
NONE OPPOSED THAT THOSE PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
ALL RIGHT, ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION PUBLIC COMMENTS.
WE HAVE NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS TODAY.
HOWEVER, SHOULD ANY FOLKS SHOW UP TO SPEAK ON ANY ITEMS? I WILL TAKE THEM AS THEY COME.
UH, ITEM TWO B UH, IS GOING TO BE THE ONLY ITEM THAT WE WILL BE LOOKING AT TODAY, WHICH IS FINALIZED COUNCIL, POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS.
UM, LAST MEETING, WE PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER AND HANDED IT OFF TO THE CITY ATTORNEY.
HE BROUGHT US BACK A RED LINE DOCUMENT.
UH, WE'RE PRETTY SATISFIED WITH IT AT THE TIME WE HAD A FEW LAST MINUTE REQUESTS COME IN AT ONE OF OUR JUNE MEETINGS, UH, THAT WE WANTED TO STOP AND TAKE A QUICK PAUSE AND LOOK AT.
UM, AND NOW WE ARE BACK HERE TODAY TO FINALIZE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS MEMBERS.
YOU'VE ALL GOT A COPY OF THE RED LINE DOCUMENT.
I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH EACH ITEM AND WE CAN DO A QUICK DISCUSSION.
UH, FIRST ITEM ON PAGE ONE, WE FIXED THE YEAR.
THANK YOU, MR. CITY ATTORNEY ON THAT ONE, NO ARGUMENTS THAT IT IS INDEED 2022.
UH, PAGE TWO, UH, ADDED SOME CLARIFYING LANGUAGE, UH, FOR, UH, MEETINGS DURING A, UH, LOCAL EMERGENCY.
AND I BELIEVE SOMEBODY HAD HAD US ADD THE, UH, UH, EXTRA, UH, LEVELS OF, OF, I DON'T WANT TO SAY FAILURE, BUT ADDITIONAL CHAIN OF COMMAND.
UH, IT'S REALLY MORE OF JUST A, AN OPERATIONAL THING.
ANY ARGUMENTS THERE, ANY ISSUES? NOPE.
SEEING NONE MOVING ON AND WE'RE SCROLLING.
I NEED TO SCROLL FASTER PAGE EIGHT MOTIONS TO AMEND THE MOTION.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A FORMER COUNCIL MEMBER ROBIN HAD BROUGHT US WAS A DESIRE TO, UM, SLOW DOWN FLOOR AMENDMENTS IN SUCH A WAY THAT PEOPLE COULD HAVE TIME TO REFLECT.
AND THEN IT WAS ECHOED BY MAYOR PRO TEM MORRIS.
UH, WE ORIGINALLY HAD LOOKED AT D USING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RULES OF ORDER TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, BUT THAT SEEMED LIKELY USING, UH, A NEW PARTICULAR, UH, MOSQUITO.
UM, AND SO WE CAME UP WITH A POTENTIAL WAY TO, UH, SLOW DOWN AND BIFURCATE FORM AND MINTS, UH, TO WHERE WE WOULD, UH, IN GENERAL, BRING THOSE FLOOR AMENDMENTS OR ANYTHING THAT RECEIVED A FORM.
AND WHEN WOULD COME BACK ON THE NEXT, UH, UH, FORMAL COUNCIL CONSENT AGENDA WITH AN OVERRIDE PROVISION, UH, SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT WE MADE TO FOR AND AGAINST THIS, UH, WAS, WAS KIND OF JUST GENERALLY SLOWING THINGS DOWN PARTITION, POSSIBLY UNNECESSARILY, UH, BUT SLOWING THEM DOWN POSSIBLY NECESSARILY.
SO, UH, THERE THERE'S THE GOOD AND THE BAD IN IT, AND I WILL, UH, YEAH, JUST PUNCH IN AND YOU'RE FREE TO DISCUSS, SIR.
THANK YOU, CHAIR AT HOW WOULD THIS ADDITIONAL PROCEDURE DIFFERENTIATE ITSELF FROM THE STANDARD ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER PROCEDURE? I MEAN, CAN THE CHAIRMAN RUNNING THE MEETING IMPLEMENT THIS OR NOT AS HE WISHES? AND I GUESS I ASKED HIM FOR MORE REASONING BEHIND THAT.
I KNOW YOU SAID, UH, COUNCILMAN AUBURN BROUGHT THIS UP, BUT, UH, JUST LIKE A LITTLE MORE EXPLANATION.
SO IF WE HAVE A FLOOR, MAN, THAT SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGES EITHER THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE ORDINANCE WE'RE DISCUSSING OR THE NATURE OF THE ORDINANCE WE'RE DISCUSSING, UH, THE QUESTION WAS, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE COULD VOTE TO TABLE FOR TWO WEEKS AND BRING IT BACK, UH, AND SEE IT AGAIN.
UH, THE OTHER IS IF EVERYBODY WAS GENERALLY HAPPY WITH IT COULD DO THE TWO WEEKS WAIT FOR THE FINAL FORM OF THE ORDINANCE TO COME BACK AS WE WOULD DO AN A P AND Z CASE, AND THEN HAVE THAT TWO WEEKS.
AND IN THAT TIME TO DISCUSS WITH LEGAL, UH, WITH OPERATIONS AND CITY MANAGEMENT TO FIGURE OUT THE PRACTICAL IMPACT OF THAT CHANGE, UM, UH, YOUR POINTS WELL MADE THAT THE CHAIR OF A MEETING CAN SAY, OKAY, WE'VE GOT THE SUBSTANTIAL FORM.
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TABLE THIS FOR TWO WEEKS, COME BACK AND DISCUSS IT AGAIN WITH A FLOOR AMENDMENT APPLIED, UM, FOR THIS IS SORT OF THAT HALFWAY POINT FOR EXPEDIENCY OF LET'S GO AND GET THE VOTE DONE.WE'LL, WE'LL GIVE IT A NOD ON THE NEXT CONSENT AGENDA AS WELL, JUST TO MAKE SURE NOTHING CHANGED IN THE MEANTIME.
UM, THAT'S, THAT'S THE BEST I CAN EXPLAIN IT.
I'M CURIOUS ALSO ABOUT THE TWO THIRDS NUMBER, HOW WAS THAT RESPOND INSTEAD OF A SIMPLE MAJORITY? UM, YEAH, BECAUSE WE, WE WORRY ABOUT THE, THE RIGHTS OF THE DISSENTER, UH, THE DESCENDING VOTE, YOU ALWAYS TRY TO, TO BALANCE, RIGHT? SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A FIVE, FOUR SPLIT ON SOMETHING THAT, THAT TELLS US IT'S BEEN FAIRLY CONTENTIOUS, THAT WE MAY NEED THE ADDITIONAL TWO WEEKS TO WORK THROUGH THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF IT.
WELL, I MEAN, FIVE, FOUR TO SIX THREES, ONLY ONE PERSON.
I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT, KEEP IN MIND THE CONTEXT, OR AT LEAST ONE EXAMPLE THAT WAS GIVEN AS WE'VE TALKED THROUGH, THIS WAS THE VOTE THAT Y'ALL HAD AT THE END OF JANUARY CONCERNING THE CIVIL SERVICE, THE POLICE CIVIL SERVICE, UM, WHERE THERE WAS A FLOOR AMENDMENT MADE AND NOBODY ON THE DAYAS UNDERSTOOD AT THE TIME, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE FLOOR, MANY IN REGARD TO OPERATIONS.
AND, UM, AS A RESULT, PEOPLE WERE LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE BAD THING ABOUT FOR MEN, MEN.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT AMENDING MOTIONS.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MATTERS THAT HAVE COME BEFORE Y'ALL IN WORK SESSION AND Y'ALL HAVE GIVEN Y'ALL'S CONSENSUS AND YOU'LL SAY, YEAH, SEND IT ON TO, UM, FOR A FINAL VOTE IN REGULAR SESSION.
AND Y'ALL MAY HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT IN COMMITTEE.
SO IT'S THOSE MATTERS THAT HAVE HAD A CONSENSUS FROM COUNCIL BEFORE THAT COME BACK FOR A FINAL VOTE.
AND THEN SOMEONE SAYS, OH, I WANT TO ADD SOMETHING.
I KNOW WE'VE ALREADY HAD A CONSENSUS ON HOW IT'S BEING, HOW IT'S PRESENTED NOW, BUT WE WANT TO ADD SOMETHING TO THIS.
AND THAT'S THE CONTEXT OF WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS.
HOW DO YOU IN ROBERT'S RULES DOESN'T REALLY ADDRESS THAT PARTICULAR SCENARIO.
UM, UM, SO IT'S, HOW DO YOU DO THAT IN A WAY TO WHERE COUNCIL MEMBERS AREN'T FEELING PRESSURED TO VOTE ON SOMETHING THAT THEY HAVEN'T REALLY GIVEN, HAD A CHANCE TO GIVE A LOT OF THOUGHT TO, OR ASK QUESTIONS.
AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE CONTEXT OF IT, RIGHT? I LIKE THAT ITEM, I ONE DOES SAY PREVIOUS LEAD DEBATED OR RE AND REGION.
SO, UM, YEAH, I JUST WANT A LITTLE MORE HISTORY ON THAT.
AND WE WERE, WE WALKED VERY CAREFULLY THROUGH THAT LONG BECAUSE WE WASN'T, WE WEREN'T SURE IF WE WERE GOING TO DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD TO THE PROCESS AND SLOW EVERYTHING DOWN AND, YOU KNOW, ARE THERE THINGS THAT, THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO ANYWAY, THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THIS, IS THIS ACTUALLY CREATING A STRUCTURAL FIX OR IS IT JUST TRYING TO RELIEVE COUNCIL MEMBERS OF, OF POLITICAL PRESSURE, WHICH HAS NEVER THE GOAL OF COUNCIL POLICY? UH, I DON'T WANT TO SAY NEVER, BUT USUALLY NOT THE GOAL.
AND SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW, I, THIS IS SOMETHING I'D BE WILLING TO TRY, BUT I'D ALSO BE WILLING TO WALK IT BACK IF IT PROVES TO BE JUST A CLUSTER, YOU KNOW, AND QUITE FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST A POLICY AND QUITE FRANKLY, IF SOMEBODY PUTS TO VOTE, I'D LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, WAIVE THE TWO THIRDS OR THE I'D LIKE TO WEIGH THE FLOOR AMENDMENT POLICY ON THIS MATTER, YOU COULD PROBABLY, YOU COULD DO THAT AS A COUNCIL.
CAUSE AGAIN, IT'S NOT LAW IT'S POLICY VERSUS TO SUSPEND THE RULE WOULD BE A TWO THIRDS VOTE.
SO YEAH, IT PROBABLY ALIGNS UP ANYWAY WITH, YEAH.
THIS IS ONE OF THE, THE LATE COMERS.
WE WANTED TO PLACE LIMITS ON REMOTE ATTENDANCE.
UM, I KNOW AT 1.1 OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WANTED THIS FOR VACATION PURPOSES, BUT THAT WAS NEVER THE GOAL.
UM, WE'VE, WE'VE GOT IT IN HERE LIMITED TO ONE PER YEAR IN STATE LAW ORDER COVERS THE PROCESS OF A RE REMOTE ATTENDING A MEETING.
SO WE DIDN'T NEED TO REHASH THAT HERE.
UM, BUT THAT'S IT QUESTION CHAIR, SIR.
WHY ONE PER YEAR AND WHY ONLY ONE MEMBER PER MEETING ONE NUMBER FOR MEETING FOR TECHNICAL REASONS ONE PER YEAR TO PREVENT ABUSE, HOWEVER, UH, AGAIN, AS ITS POLICY, UH, WE CAN CERTAINLY WAIVE THAT IF THE CIRCUMSTANCES CALLED FOR IS THAT CALENDAR YEAR OR ROLLING 12, UH, HOWEVER YOU WANT.
I MEAN, I COULD SEE, I COULD JUST SEE A SITUATION WHERE COUNCILMAN COULD POSSIBLY HAVE TWO FAMILY EMERGENCY A MONTH TIME PERIOD THAT WOULD NECESSITATE THEM POSSIBLY.
UM, I MISS MYSELF FOR A BIRTH OF MY CHILD.
AND IF THERE WAS ANOTHER TYPE OF EMERGENCY, I COULD, I WOULD APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY, ALTHOUGH I WOULDN'T REMOTE IN FROM THE HOSPITAL ROOM, BUT, UH, I MEAN THE LOBBY PERHAPS, BUT THEY MAY READ THROUGH THIS REAL QUICK, I'D BE HAPPY TO PUT A, LET ME THINK MY MAYORAL APPROVAL, BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS, IF WE DON'T LIKE WHAT THE MAYOR SAYS, WE CAN ALWAYS APPEAL THAT TO THE BODY.
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THE BEST LANGUAGE THAT WE COULD USE IN THAT CASE, UM, TO ALLOW TO SET THE POLICY AT ONE, BUT ALLOW FOR, UH, THE MAYOR TO OVERRIDE.I WON'T EXPECT YOU TO, UM, NO, I CAN, I CAN, I CAN COME UP WITH THAT.
UM, I WAS JUST THINKING, AND WE COULD SAY THE FINE OR WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE CHAIR, RIGHT? THAT IS FINE.
BUT UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S IN MY EXPERIENCE, THERE'S ONLY BEEN ONE CHAIR THAT HAS SAID, YOU KNOW, AS MAYOR THAT WOULD PROBABLY EVER DENY THAT.
SO YOU'RE EFFECTIVELY PUSHING IT BACK ONTO THE MAYOR NOW, WHICH IT'S THE POLICY WE HAVE NOW, WHICH IS FINE, BUT IT GETS PAID FOR IT.
IT'S EFFECTIVELY PUTTING THE DECISION IN HIS HANDS IS WHAT IT IS ALL IT WOULD BE.
IT'S LIKE I SAID, IT'S WHAT, IT'S, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THIS.
DO YOU WANT TO REMOVE THE ONE ENTIRELY AND JUST SAY WHAT PERMISSION OF THE CHAIR OR DO YOU, THEY ALREADY HAVE TO HAVE, WELL, I MEAN, SUBSECTION THREE SAYS THE FIRST PERSON WHO HAD NOTICED IT'S ALREADY GOING THROUGH THE CHAIR, OR ONCE YOU PUT MAYBE SUBSEQUENT ABSENCES AFTER THAT ONE HAVE TO BE FOR CAUSE, AND THEN CAUSE WOULD BE FOR GOOD CAUSE GOOD.
CAUSE COULD BE DETERMINED BY THE MAYOR.
WE'LL GIVE YOU A SECOND TO MAKE NOTES AND THEN OKAY.
WELL, ALL RIGHT, MOVING ON TO PAGE 13, SECTION EIGHT, APARTMENT APPOINTMENTS TO BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.
I'VE GOTTEN THIS REQUEST TO PUT THIS IN COUNCIL POLICY AT LEAST TWICE A YEAR SINCE I STARTED COUNCIL.
UM, I'M STILL AMBIVALENT ON WHETHER THIS BELONGS IN, IN POLICY OR NOT.
THIS IS A KIND OF A POLITICAL THING AND NOT A, UH, NOT REALLY AN OPERATIONAL POLICY.
AND SO I'M STILL VERY ON WHETHER I WANT THIS IN HERE OR NOT, BUT IT'S PRESENTED HERE FOR DISCUSSION MR. CHAIR.
I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU I'D REMOVE IT IF IT WAS UP TO ME, BUT IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE IT, I DO HAVE SOME ISSUES WITH IT.
UM, ISSUES BEING REASONABLE EFFORTS, PLURAL, MEANING MORE THAN ONE AND WHAT CONSTITUTES A REASONABLE EFFORT AND WHO DETERMINES THAT AS A REASONABLE EFFORT, MEAN A PHONE CALL, TEXT, EMAIL, A FACE-TO-FACE MEETING MULTIPLE.
IF THEY DON'T RESPOND OR A VOICE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES AROUND THAT THAT I HAVE, BUT I AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT IS POLITICAL AND I'D LIKE TO SEE IT REMOVED MAY PRETEND.
BECAUSE THIS HAS COME UP MULTIPLE TIMES IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS AND HAS CAUSED A LOT OF STRIFE BETWEEN COUNCIL MEMBERS.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT REMAIN.
I AGREE ABOUT THE AMBIVALENCE OF MAKE REASONABLE EFFORTS.
I WOULD JUST SAY THE APPOINTING COUNCIL MEMBER SHALL DISCUSS THE APPOINTMENT WITH THE COUNCIL MEMBER OF THE DISTRICT, IN WHICH THE PROPOSED APPOINTEE RESIDE PRIOR TO OFFERING THE POSITION TO THE APPOINTEE.
AND IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT ALMOST ALL OF US ALWAYS DO.
SO THAT'S NOT A MAJOR CHANGE IN PROCEDURE.
DISCUSS IS PRETTY CLEAR, AND THAT CAN BE TEXTS THAT CAN BE PHONE THAT CAN BE IN PERSON, CAN BE OVER DINNER AND JUST MAKE IT DISCUSS.
BUT DOESN'T GIVE THE POWER OF THE COUNCIL MEMBER IN THE DISTRICT TO STOP OR REFUSE.
DOESN'T GIVE THEM UNDUE AUTHORITY, BUT FOR, UM, YEAH, IT DOES.
IT WOULD WORST CASE SCENARIO WHERE TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT JUST AREN'T SPEAKING AND ONE DECIDES, WELL, IF HE DOESN'T DISCUSS THIS WITH ME, THEN HE'S, DOESN'T GET TO A POINT CANDIDATE A, BUT YOU HAVE COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT DON'T GET ALONG.
SO THAT'S THAT, THAT WAS THE REASON WE DROPPED IN REASONABLE EFFORTS.
IF YOU RECALL THE IDEA OF BEING, YOU HAVE TO TRY AND HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE COUNCIL MEMBER DECIDES NOT TO TAKE YOUR CALL OR NOT TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION WITH YOU, THEN ALL YOUR DUTY WAS, WAS TO MAKE AN EFFORT.
AND THEN MAYBE MAKE A REASONABLE EFFORT, WHICH WOULD, YEAH, THAT WOULD BE FINE.
I MEAN, WHY DON'T WE JUST MAKE A REASONABLE EFFORT AND YOU KNOW, ONE AND DONE, AND THAT CAN BE A TEXT, A PHONE CALL, AN EMAIL IF THEY DON'T ANSWER DONE MESSAGED, ATTACHED TO A FLAMING BAG OF POO ON THE DOORSTEP.
POSTED ON THE DOOR, ROCK THROUGH THE WINDOW WITH A NOTE ON IT.
I MEAN, IN SOME CASES YOU COULD SEE THAT.
SO MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO SEE THIS IN HERE BECAUSE AS NEW COUNCIL COUNCIL COME IN COUNCIL, GO OUT.
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REPEATEDLY A MAJOR ISSUE THAT'S CAUSED MAJOR AXED.AND I WOULD JUST ASSUME PEOPLE KNOW UPFRONT PROTOCOL.
I THINK THIS IS A REASONABLE PROTOCOL.
I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST PRESENT THIS TO THE FULL BODY FOR DISCUSSION.
AND THE REASON IS, IS I'VE HAD SO MANY PEOPLE BRING IT TO ME.
I AT LEAST WANT TO PUT IT OUT THERE AND GO, WELL, I DID IT AND YOU VOTED AGAINST IT.
AND DON'T PUT THIS IN ASC AGAIN, WE'VE LOOKED AT IT A HUNDRED TIMES.
SO I WILL PROBABLY SAY THE SAME THING IN THE WORK SESSION THAT I SAID, SITTING HERE, IT'S A POLITICAL THING AND NOT A POLICY THING.
UM, UH, BUT WITH THE AGREEMENT OF THE MEMBERS HERE, I WOULD LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND TAKE THAT BACK TO THE FULL BODY.
UH, CITIZEN COMMENTS, UH, I BELIEVE IN THIS FIRST PART, ALL WE DID WAS DO SOME CLARIFYING LANGUAGE, UH, TO REFLECT WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY.
UH, THAT SECTION A SECTION B IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
UM, WE, WE, WE DISCUSSED WHETHER OR NOT WE, WE SHOULD HAVE THE POLICY THAT EVERY COMMITTEE OF THE COUNCIL HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION.
AND WE ACTUALLY, UH, HAD DECIDED AGAINST THAT.
HOWEVER, WE DID WANT TO SPECIFY THAT BECAUSE STATE LAW REQUIRES IT AND IT IS SUBJECT TO OPEN MEETINGS AND ALL THE REST THAT WORK SESSIONS.
DID WE ACTUALLY SAY COMMITTEE MEETINGS HERE? I THOUGHT WE HAD VOTED AGAINST IT.
DID WE VOTE FOR IT? I THINK WE VOTED FOR LIKE, Y'ALL VOTED FOR IT.
YOU SURE WE VOTED AGAINST IT BEFORE WE VOTED FOR IT.
WE JOINED, CARRIED THIS THING.
UM, RYAN'S FAULT PROBABLY MOST BRIAN'S FAULT.
I REMEMBER MAKING THE CASE THAT, BECAUSE WE TREAT ALL OF OUR COMMITTEE, HEARING AIR COMMITTEE MEETINGS AS IF WE WOULD ANY OPEN MEETING THAT WE WANTED TO BE CONSISTENT.
BUT THEN I THOUGHT WE HAD GONE A DIFFERENT DIRECTION WITH IT, BUT Y'ALL ARE SAYING WE CAME BACK TO IT.
WHAT HAVE Y'ALL DONE BY THE WAY? YOU CAN POINT THE FINGER.
CAUSE I'M SURE I DID SOMETHING.
IT IS OUR POLICY TO BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING.
SO INITIALLY WE ASKED THE QUESTION, I THINK I ASKED HIM AND HE SAID, NO, IT COMMITTEE MEETINGS ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE STATE LAW.
AND THEN HE BACKPEDALED AND SAID, WELL, MAYBE THEY ARE, AND THEN THAT'D BE, MIGHT BE, YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE.
AND THAT'S HOW WE TURN THE SHIP AROUND AND FOR CLARIFICATION.
SO THE QUESTION COMES UP MORE FREQUENTLY AND THAT'S COME UP QUITE A NUMBER OF TIMES IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, THAT IS OUR MEETINGS ACTUALLY OPEN MEETINGS AS DEFINED IN STATE LAW.
AND IT DEPENDS IS THE ANSWER MOST LIKELY.
BUT BECAUSE TYPICALLY ITEMS THAT COME BEFORE COMMITTEES ARE ITEMS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED AND IT'S ON SOME LEVEL BY OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS.
AND SO MOST LIKELY A QUORUM OF COUNCIL HAS ALREADY DISCUSSED ON SOME LEVEL THE ITEMS THAT ARE DISCUSSED IN COMMITTEES.
AND SO THE ARGUMENT BEING WELL, ALL YOU'RE DOING WHEN YOU HAVE A COMMITTEE IS YOUR, IF YOU DON'T POST IT, YOU'RE PARTICIPATING IN A WALKING FORUM.
AND SO TO BE SAFE, WE'VE ALWAYS TREATED COMMITTEES BY POLICY AS OPEN MEETINGS.
IT'S QUESTIONABLE IF THEY ARE ACTUALLY OPEN TO THE STATE LAW, BUT YOU CAN, I CAN SEE THE ARGUMENT AS TO WHY THEY COULD BE OKAY AND THAT'S RINGING A BELL NOW.
SO WE'VE SAID A PORTION OF CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETINGS AND COMMITTEE MEETINGS SHALL BE SET ASIDE FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO ADDRESS THE CITY CITY COUNCIL ON ANY ITEM THAT IS FORMALLY SCHEDULED ON THE AGENDA.
AND THEN IT GOES ON ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD DO THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS INCLUDED A PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION IN OUR ASC MEETINGS.
I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER HAD A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC SHOW UP, BUT THEY ARE CERTAINLY INVITED AND WELCOME TO.
I MEAN, IF WE WANT TO ERR, ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION, WHEN IT COMES TO STATE LAW, UH, THAT DOESN'T HURT ANYBODY.
I DON'T KNOW OF ANY, BECAUSE IT'S ON THE AGENDA THAT HAVE EVER OBJECTED THE PUBLIC SPEAKING AT THERE.
I CAN'T THINK OF IT THAT, UH, JOHN WILLIS TRIED TO STOP ME FROM TALKING ONCE AND THAT DIDN'T REALLY OH, HE DID.
UM, IN B IT SAYS MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO WISHED TO SPEAK, WHO DESIRED TO SPEAK SHALL ELECTRONICALLY REGISTERED A KIOSK OR COMPLETE A SPEAKER CARD PRIOR TO THE OPEN UP THE MEETING AND PRESENT TO THE CITY SECRETARY AND I'M SECRETARY.
DO YOU HAVE ANY SPEAKER CARDS OVER THERE? YES, THAT'S ALL I NEEDED.
SO I NEED TO CLARIFY OR, UM, STAFF, UM, RECORDING CA STAFF LIAISON.
DO WE HAVE A RECORDING SECRETARY? TECHNICALLY AT EVERY MEETING? YES.
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OKAY.SO WE CALL THE STAFF LIAISON RECORDING SECRETARY AND ARE THE KIOSKS OPEN FOR EVERY MEETING? IF SOMEONE REGISTERED THE KIOSK BEFORE MY TIM'S COMMITTEE MEETING COMING AT FOUR, WOULD I EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT? NO, THEY WOULD HAVE TO REGISTER WITH THE STAFF LIAISON.
SO WE LEAVE IT AMBIGUOUS HERE.
EVEN WE SAY THE KIOSKS IN THE LOBBY OF THE CITY HALL.
I MEAN THAT, I THINK WE SHOULD SEE THE KIOSK.
IF THEY'RE GOING TO POSSIBLY MOVE FROM THE LOBBY, THEY COULD BE IN THE HALLWAY HERE AND THEY COULD MOVE AROUND.
I MEAN, SO MAKE SOME THINGS A LITTLE MORE GENERIC AND THEN I GOT IT.
UH, THE OTHER THING IS, UH, RELATED ITEMS DOWN ON THE AGENDA.
WE DON'T WANT SOMEBODY TO SHOW UP AT A COMMITTEE MEETING, WHICH IS A VERY SPECIALIZED DISCUSSION.
SPEAKING ABOUT GENERAL THINGS.
THAT'S WHAT THE CITIZENS COMMENTS AT THE END OF THE, THE MAIN COUNCIL MEETING OR FOUR.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE, UH, THAT'S THE, THE VENUE FOR THAT.
SO ANYBODY WHO SHOWS UP HAS TO SPEAK TO ITEMS ON THE AGENDA, UH, AND COMMITTEE MEETINGS.
WELL, IT SAYS IT IN THE FIRST SUBSECTION B IT DIDN'T READ NUMBER FOR ME THERE.
UM, BUT I'M LOOKING FOR WHERE THAT APPLIES TO COMMITTEES.
UM, SUBSECTION B, WHICH THE FIRST SUBSECTION B BECOMES C RIGHT.
THAT THE RED LINE DIDN'T MAKE IT TO SEE FOR WHATEVER REASON IT SAYS THAT AND COMMITTED MEETINGS SHALL BE SET ASIDE FOR MEMBERS OF PUBLIC TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL ON ANY ITEM THAT IS FORMALLY SCHEDULED ON THE ENGINE THAT SHOULD SAY THE COMMITTEE OR THE CITY COUNCIL.
SO IT SHOULD SAY TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL OR COMMITTEE, RIGHT.
AS THE CASE MAY BE ON ANY ITEM THAT IS FORMALLY SCHEDULED ON THE AGENDA, RIGHT? YEAH.
CAUSE IT WASN'T SAYING COMMITTEE HERE.
IT WAS JUST SAYING CITY COUNCIL.
SO A QUICK REWORD TO CLARIFY, BUT THE INTENT ARE WE GOOD WITH THE INTENT AND THE DIRECTION? YEP.
MR. CHAIR, DO WE NEED TO SPECIFY WHEN THOSE COMMENTS ARE ALLOWED DURING THE MEETING, UM, TAKEN AT THE BEGINNING OR DURING THE DISCUSSION OF AN ITEM SURE.
OF THE CHAIR AND SUBJECT TO THE CHAIR'S APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA FOR THAT MEETING.
SO I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO SPECIFY.
I, I TAKE, WELL, I MEAN, FOR ADMIN SERVICES, I TEND TO TAKE PEOPLE WHENEVER THEY SHOW UP AND WANT TO SPEAK AS LONG AS IT'S ON TOPIC.
UH, I COULD SEE WANTING TO, YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING ABOUT YOUR FOOD TRUCK DISCUSSION.
I MEAN, MAYBE YOU WANT TO GET EVERYBODY IN FIRST AND LET THEM GET ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT BUSINESSES TO RUN.
SO YOU LET THEM COME IN AT THE BEGINNING, DO YOUR THING.
BUT I THINK IT'S SUBJECT TO THE CHAIR, SUBJECT TO THE CHAIR.
UM, THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE BASED ON THE SCHEDULING AND THE TIMING OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND THE FACT THAT THEY DO A LOT OF INTERIM WORK.
NOW WE'VE GOT THIS, UH, BUDDING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND, UH, WE'RE STARTING TO INTERACT WITH MORE COUNTY AGENCIES.
UH, THE, THE SUGGESTION WAS MADE THAT IGA GO AHEAD AND BECOME A PERMANENT STANDING COMMITTEE AND THAT WE REMOVE, UH, REVIEW OF LOCAL STATE AND NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE CHANGES OUT OF ASC AND MOVE THAT INTO IGA.
UH, THEY'VE GOT ENOUGH WORKLOAD.
I THINK IT'S WARRANTED, UH, SPOKE WITH THE MAYOR BRIEFLY ON THIS AND LET THEM KNOW THAT THIS WOULD BE COMING.
AND HE WAS, HE WAS ON BOARD WITH THAT.
IT IS CURRENTLY TECHNICALLY AN AD HOC COMMITTEE, UH, BUT HE'S READY TO, UH, TO REAUTHORIZE IT.
AND SO ON PAGES, 17, 18 AND 20, UH, YOU'LL SEE THE RED LINES AS THEY RELATE TO THAT CHANGE.
AND WE JUST TWEAKED THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE TO, TO INCLUDE A COUNTY IN THEIR SCOPE BECAUSE THE COUNTY IS SUCH A MAJOR PLAYER IN OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT EFFORT.
ANY DISCUSSION ON, UH, ESTABLISHING IGA IS A PERMANENT COMMITTEE.
DO WE NEED TO MENTION THE SCHOOL DISTRICT SPECIFICALLY? UH, NO.
WE JUST SAY OTHER GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES, UH, OTHER GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES.
THAT COULD BE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, UH, NODES, WATER DISTRICTS REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT ONE.
UM, ANY DISAGREEMENT ON THAT ONE? OKAY.
UM, PAGE 22, SLIGHT WORDING CHANGE, UH, THE WAY IT HAD, THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN PRIOR, IT WAS THE MAYOR SHOULD ONLY ACTIVELY REVIEW EXISTING COMMITTEES TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE SHOULD BE DISSOLVED.
UH, WE FELT THAT IT MIGHT MAKE SENSE TO ADD, UH, ESTABLISHED AS WELL, JUST TO CLEAN UP THE LANGUAGE AND OFFER THAT OPPORTUNITY.
MY LAPTOP IS, UH, ONE, ONE COMMENT ON THAT IS THE MAYOR AS THE AUTHORITY SOLELY TO CREATE NEW COMMITTEES, NON AD HOC COMMITTEES INGEST.
UH, WE HAVE TO APPROVE THAT AS A COUNCIL, BUT AS PART
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OF HIS REVIEW PROCESS, HE SHOULD MAKE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS TO US.AS PART OF HIS REVIEW, UM, THE MAYOR SHALL ANNUALLY REVIEW THE ACTIVITY OF THE EXISTING COMMITTEES TO IDENTIFY INACTIVE COMMITTEES, VERY LOUD LAWN EQUIPMENT, AND PROVIDE A REPORT TO THE COUNCIL RECOMMENDING WHICH COMMITTEES SHOULD BE ESTABLISHED, CONTINUED OR DISSOLVED MAYOR.
TECHNICALLY COMMITTEES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CREATURES OF THE MAYOR.
AND SO, UM, IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING WHAT THIS CHANGE THAT THE MAYOR WILL HAVE TO COME TO COUNCIL NOW TO, IF THE MAYOR DECIDES HE DOESN'T WANT COMMITTEES, THE NEXT MAYOR DECIDES WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO COMMITTEES, WE'RE JUST GOING TO DO EVERYTHING AND WORK SESSION.
IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MAYOR WOULD HAVE TO COME TO COUNCIL TO ASK FOR APPROVAL FOR THAT? IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
UM, I KNOW WE HAVE STANDING COMMITTEES AND, AND I'M GOING TO BE WRONG ON THIS, BUT I THOUGHT WE HAD SOME STANDING COMMITTEES ACTUALLY IN, UH, EITHER ORDINANCE OR CHARTER AND NOT JUST IN THE COUNCIL POLICY, NOT THE TYPE OF COMMITTEES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, POSSIBLY OTHER COMMITTEES, BUT NOW IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE MAYOR'S PLEASURE, BUT YOUR, YOUR, YOUR TIME HERE EXCEEDS MINE, I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN, BUT I BELIEVE YOU, I MADE BIG SUMMER DIG AROUND FOR THAT.
I KNOW IN MY UNDERSTANDING, I KNOW THAT AT THIS ONE TO COME IN AND SINGLE-HANDEDLY DISSOLVE ALL COMING RIGHT.
AND THE BODY WASN'T STANDING FOR THAT.
I THINK HE GAVE HIM THE POLITICAL PRESSURE, BUT ONLY BECAUSE HE GAVE INTO THE POLITICAL PRESSURE.
HE, I THINK HE PROBABLY HAD THE AUTHORITY AT THAT TIME.
I REMEMBER THAT WHEN THAT WAS GOING ON.
AND, UM, HE PROBABLY, CAUSE THAT WAS A DISCUSSION WE WERE HAVING AT THE TIME.
DOES HE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT? AND I BELIEVE THAT I BELIEVE THE CONCLUSION WE DREW, HE MAY HAVE, HE ACTUALLY HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DO IT.
I THINK THAT'S WHY THIS POLICY IS IN HERE.
THIS WAS PROBABLY, UH, UH, JIM K HILL, UH, ADDITION TO BLOCK HIM FROM, FROM SINGLE-HANDEDLY DOING IT, BUT HE COULD MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU'RE RELYING ON THE TITLE OF THIS AND TITLES AND STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION HAVE NO MEANING AT ALL ZERO.
AND SO I TITLE WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU INTERPRET A STATUTE OR A POLICY OR GOVERNMENTAL POLICY, A TITLE MEANS NOTHING THAT THEY CANNOT BE THE TITLE OF THE PERSON, THE TITLE OF THE SECTION.
AND SO IN THIS CASE, IT SAYS A RECOMMENDATION, BUT IN THE TITLE, BUT IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE, IT SAYS THE MAYOR SHALL ANNUALLY REVIEW THE ACTIVITY OF EXISTING COMMITTEES TO IDENTIFY AN ACTIVE COMMITTEES AND PROVIDE A REPORT TO THE COUNCIL.
LET'S SAY RECOMMENDING WHICH COMMITTEES SHOULD BE ESTABLISHED, CONTINUING TO DISSOLVE.
WELL, IF THAT'S GOING TO BE THE POSITION, IF THAT IS THE POSITION, WE PROBABLY, WE MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER MAKING THAT LANGUAGE A LITTLE TIGHTER.
THAT'S YOUR LANGUAGE GO FOR IT? UM, BECAUSE THAT'S, I'M NOT SURE THAT EVERYONE HAS THAT SAME UNDERSTANDING.
LET'S AT LEAST, AT LEAST IN THE ADMINISTRATION.
THAT'S I I'M PRETTY SURE THIS WAS A DOUG ATHIS THING.
SO THIS WAS ACTUALLY ADDED AT THAT TIME, I GUESS.
I DON'T REMEMBER THAT PART OF IT, BUT OKAY.
THE ONLY CHANGE WE WERE MAKING THERE IS SAYING, ADDING THE WORD ESTABLISHED AND THEN PUTTING SOME COMMAS IN TO MAKE THE SENTENCE, MAKE SENSE.
THIS WAS ALREADY EXISTING POLICY.
UM, STATE AND FEDERAL LEGISLATION AND RULEMAKING, UH, THE, KIND OF THE PURPOSE OF THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE WAS TO, UH, TO, TO BE ON THAT FIRST LINE OF, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO INTERPRET OR TRYING TO DEAL WITH ALL OF THE NEW LEGISLATION OR RULE MAKING THAT CAME IN.
UM, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO TO, LET ME READ HERE.
IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO TO IN OUR, IN OUR GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, IT CAN GO STRAIGHT TO THE BODY.
UM, WE ADDED THIS IN AS ONE WAY THAT THE COMMITTEE COULD BE OF USE.
UH, MY THOUGHT WAS WE WOULD GET THIS IN FRONT OF THE BODY, UH, AT A WORK SESSION AS WELL.
AND SEE WHAT EVERYBODY THOUGHT.
DO, DO YOU ALL WANT TO HEAR ABOUT EVERY LEGISLATIVE UPDATE OR DO YOU WANT IT FILTERED THROUGH THE IGA? AND I COULD SEE ARGUMENTS BOTH WAYS.
ONE IS JUST THE, THE INSANE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT GOES IN, UH, DURING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, BUT I COULD ALSO SEE WANTING, UH, MEMBERS NOT WANTING TO BE LEFT OUT OF THAT PROCESS EITHER.
AND SO I THOUGHT WE MIGHT GET THE, GET THE COUNCIL TALKING AND SEEING WHAT DIRECTION WE WANTED TO GO.
I WOULDN'T MIND WRITTEN BRIEFINGS.
I WOULD NOT WANT THESE TO BE, UM, VERBAL BRIEFINGS AT WORK SESSIONS DURING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS BECAUSE OUR MEETINGS ARE LONG AND THAT WOULD MAKE THEM INSANE.
WHAT'D YOU WANT IT TO COME THROUGH THE,
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THE STAFF LIAISON TO IGA OR WOULD YOU WANT IT TO BE A, UM, A COUNCIL UPDATE FROM THE CURRENTLY FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE? THERE, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BRINGING ON SOME SPECIALIZED STAFF TO HELP DEAL WITH LEGISLATIVE ISSUES THAT WOULD LEAVE THE LAWYERS FREE TO BE LAWYERS AND NOT, UH, LEGISLATORS.UM, AND I KNOW THAT'S, THAT'S OF INTEREST TO MR. ENGLAND, UH, THE DREAM BY THE WAY, IT'S JUST A DREAM.
WHAT, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE BEST WAY, IF WE WERE TO JUST REQUEST PERIODIC WRITTEN BRIEFINGS THAT ANY OF US WHO WANTED TO REVIEW EMOTIONAL, I THINK THAT'S, WHO WOULD BE BEST TO OUR OFFICE RIGHT NOW AS IT IS.
BUT IF WE DO BRING ON STAFF MEMBERS THAT WOULD WORK VERY CLOSELY, LIKE AN INTER-GOVERNMENTAL LIAISON OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, UM, WOULD THEY DO THAT THROUGH THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE IS THE, AS THE VEHICLE FOR IT, OR WOULD THEY DO IT AS JUST A STAFF MEMBER PROVIDING AN UPDATE TO COUNCIL AND I'M, I'M SENSITIVE TO THE, THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION, BUT I'M ALSO SENSITIVE TO PEOPLE WANTING THAT AMOUNT OF INFORMATION.
THE COUNCIL IS ALWAYS FREE TO LISTEN TO THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS IF THEY'RE NOT ON THAT COMMITTEE.
MORE OR PARTICIPANT TO MEETINGS ARE OKAY.
ARE WE COMFORTABLE WITH THEN LEAVING THIS, UH, THE SMALL SECTION IN HERE FOR GOVERNMENT INTER GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS ON PAGE 23? SURE.
UM, PAGE 24, THIS WAS ANOTHER ATHIS ISM WHERE THEY FELT THE NEED TO HIGHLIGHT AND LIST OR ENUMERATE OR USE AN SAT OR TO ENUMERATE EVERY, UH, THING THAT PEOPLE WERE ALLOWED TO GO TO.
UM, MY SUGGESTION WAS THAT WE JUST SAY, LOOK, IF THE CITY BOUGHT A MEMBERSHIP IN THE ORGANIZATION, IT MAKES SENSE THAT PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO GO TO THE EVENTS HOSTED BY THAT ORGANIZATION AND WE SHOULD FUND IT.
AND THAT WAY, REALLY THE DECISION IS MADE MORE BY THE GROUP DURING BUDGET TIME THAN IT IS BY ASC DURING POLICYMAKING.
CAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DICTATE TO THE COUNTY, THE WHOLE COUNCIL, WHAT EVENTS THEY'RE ALLOWED TO ATTEND.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE BUDGET IS FOR.
DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE HERE? I THINK WE DO, UH, SECTION 12, THIS IS PAGE 33, UH, BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANTED TO SPECIFY IS THAT WE ARE MAKING AUDIO RECORDINGS, UH, AVAILABLE.
UH, HOWEVER, WE DID FEEL THE NEED TO EXEMPLIFY TO THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION.
AND MR. ENGLAND, IF YOU'LL SPEAK TO THE, UH, THE CRIMINAL SIDE OF THAT, YOU'D MADE SOME GOOD POINTS DURING THE LAST MEETING.
OFTENTIMES OFTENTIMES WHEN OUR POLICE OFFICERS OR FIREFIGHTERS, MAINLY POLICE OFFICERS ARE BEING DISCIPLINED THROUGH THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION IT'S RELATED TO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OR POTENTIAL CRIMINAL ACTIVITY FOR WHICH THEY'VE BEEN CHARGED.
AND SO WHAT WE'VE DONE, UM, CURRENTLY WHAT HAPPENS IS THERE'S A COUPLE OF LAYERS TO THIS.
LET ME, LET ME SPEAK TO THE PRESS LAYER FIRST, BY PUBLISHING THEM ON OUR WEBSITE.
IT MAKES IT MUCH EASIER FOR, UM, UH, A PUBLIC PRESS STORY TO COME OUT THROUGH THE CLICK OF A MOUSE ABOUT SOMEBODY THAT'S ONLY BEEN ACCUSED OF SOMETHING WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE.
UM, IT'S STILL PUBLIC INFORMATION, BUT IT'S MADE IT IT'S IT'S MUCH MORE ACCESSIBLE.
UM, UM, AND IN THAT REGARD BEFORE ANYBODY HAS EVER BEEN TRIED, BECAUSE SOME OF THIS STUFF IS CRIMINAL IN NATURE, IT COULD BE POTENTIALLY CRIMINAL IN NATURE.
UM, UM, IT PUTS OUR OFFICERS IN A POSITION OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PLEAD THE FIFTH, UM, AT A CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION ON PUBLIC.
UM, UM, AND THAT BEING REPORTED OUT THERE TO THE PUBLIC AND THAT QUITE FRANKLY, IT, IT DOES EVEN BEFORE DUE PROCESS HAS BEEN HAD.
IT DOES, UM, UM, KEEP IN MIND THAT THE REPORT TO THE CIVIL SERVICE, ISN'T A HEARING TO DETERMINE FAULT.
IT'S A REPORT OF THE DISCIPLINE TO THE CIVIL SERVICE.
AND SO COMING FROM THE CIVIL SERVICE, THEY COULD STILL BE PENDING A CRIMINAL TRIAL OR PENDING A, UM, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING IN FRONT OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER.
UM, AND SO NO FAULT HAS BEEN FOUND, BUT YET THE REPORTS BEING MADE PUBLIC, WHICH WE'VE ALWAYS SAID, THAT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION.
SO THE PUBLIC CAN ALWAYS ASK FOR IT, BUT WE'VE JUST MADE IT WAY TOO.
IN MY OPINION, WE'VE MADE IT WAY TOO ACCESSIBLE FOR PEOPLE JUST TO CLICK THE MOUSE AND THEN WRITE A
[00:35:01]
STORY ON IT, UM, THROUGH THE EITHER, UH, DALLAS MORNING NEWS OR ANOTHER, UM, UM, WEBSITE.AND, UM, UM, SO THAT WAS THE IDEA HERE OF EXCLUDING THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION FROM THIS, JUST BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE STUFF THAT APPEARS QUASI JUDICIAL IN NATURE AND OFTENTIMES CRIMINAL IN NATURE.
AND SO THAT'S THE REASON IT'S KIND OF LIKE A COURTROOM COURT FREQUENTLY DONE A LOT OF PRESS IN THE COURTROOM AND CAMERAS IN THE COURTROOM, UM, AND RECORDINGS OF THE COURTROOM BECAUSE OF THIS VERY THING, BECAUSE OF THE SENSATIONALIST, THE WAY IT CAN BE REPORTED IN A SENSATIONAL WAY THROUGH THE PRESS.
WE DON'T DON'T WANT ATTAIN A JURY POOL.
CAN SOMEONE MAKE A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST TO GET RECORDING? YES, ABSOLUTELY.
BUT THEN THERE'S A, A NAME ON THAT REQUEST, CORRECT? WELL, SOMETIMES, BUT, UM, USUALLY IF IT'S THE PRESS, IT'S GOING TO BE A NAME AND WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REPLY AND THEN ACTUALLY HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE PRESS ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY ASKING FOR.
I MEAN, THERE'S AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE, NOT TO RECORD IT AT ALL AND, UM, DON'T PUBLISH IT AND DON'T RECORD IT AT ALL, BUT THAT'S A DECISION THAT Y'ALL WOULD HAVE TO MAKE, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD DEFINITELY BE IN YOUR PURVIEW IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO.
UH, ANY DISAGREEMENT WITH NOT POSTING THAT PARTICULAR MEETING ON OUR PUBLIC WEBSITE? GOOD.
UH, PAGE 44, I THINK, LET ME DOUBLE CHECK.
UH, THIS IS THE CITY MANAGER IS AUTHORIZED TO APPROVE AND EXECUTE BY AND ON BEHALF OF THE CITY PURCHASES OR THE CONTRACTS REOCCURRING EXPENDITURES UP TO, AND INCLUDING THE AMOUNT OF, UH, $99,999 AND 99 CENTS BY 99,000 999 99.
ALL THE NINES, UM, THAT WAS SET IN 1985, I THINK, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT INFLATION, THAT INFLATED NUMBER IS 262,000.
WE LOOKED AT 250 IS A NICE ROUND NUMBER TO, UH, INCREASE THAT, UH, WE LEARNED LAST NIGHT THAT THE MEDIAN HOME VALUE IS WHAT 2 52 WAS IT.
AND THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME THAT WE KEEP THIS LESS THAN THE PRICE OF A, UH, OF PURCHASING A HOME, UM, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THE CITY MANAGER RUNNING OUT AND BUYING LOTS WITHOUT OUR, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT OUR INVOLVEMENT.
UM, SO THAT, THAT WAS THE SUGGESTION, UH, THE CITY MANAGER, UH, I SPOKE TO HIM ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE BROUGHT IT TO THE FIRST COMMITTEE MEETING AND HE WAS LIKE, OH GOSH, YES, YES, YES, YES, PLEASE.
I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO ASK LIKE, OKAY, WELL YOU, YOU CAN ASK.
I MEAN, WE CAN ALWAYS TELL, YOU KNOW, UH, THE PRACTICAL IMPACT OF THAT IS, UH, REALLY, WE JUST HAVE A SHORTER CONSENT AGENDA AND WE REDUCE THE LARGE AMOUNT OF PAPERWORK, BUT, UH, YEAH, THAT'S JUST THE, THE PRACTICAL IMPACT, THE POLICY IMPACT, UM, IS THAT THERE WOULD BE, ESPECIALLY IN INFLATED, UH, TIMES THAT THERE WILL BE MORE, THAT IS NOT BROUGHT TO COUNCIL.
NOW, IT'S BEEN SLOWLY GROWING SINCE 1985 AND THE AMOUNT THAT WAS BROUGHT TO COUNCIL.
AND SO WE'D BE KIND OF DROPPING THAT BACK DOWN JUST TO INFLATE AGAIN LATER.
UH, AND SO WE COULD SAY THAT THERE'S A SLIGHT LOSS OF OVERSIGHT HERE, UH, FOR THE TRADE-OFF OF SOME EFFICIENCY I THINK IS, IS REALLY WHAT IT BOILS DOWN TO.
ARE WE INTERESTED IN PURSUING THAT? I THINK THIS MAKES SENSE, SIR.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE GOT ANYTHING WE DO.
UM, AND I'M GOING TO SEE IF I CAN EXPLAIN THIS CORRECTLY AND WANT TO GET IT WRONG.
IF SOMEBODY WILL BAIL ME OUT, THAT'D BE AWESOME.
PAGE 62, WE HAVE A LONGSTANDING POLICY ABOUT POLITICAL SIGNS AT POLLING PLACES.
THE COMMITTEE DID NOT WISH TO MESS WITH THAT POLICY, EXCEPT THAT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO READ THE CONTENT OF THE SIGN TO DETERMINE WHAT TYPE OF SIGN IT IS BASED ON THE OLD ARE OLD, OLD, NOT THAT OLD, A COUPLE OF YEARS OLD SUPREME COURT RULING.
UH, AND SO WHAT WE ATTEMPTED TO DO WAS TO, UH, STRIP OUT ALL OF THESE SPECIFICS THAT RELATED TO IT BEING A POLITICAL SIGN AT A POLLING PLACE.
UH, WE ALSO, WELL, I THINK THAT'S ABOUT IT REALLY.
UH, WE, WE JUST TRIED TO BRING OURSELVES IN LINE WITH, WITH THAT SUPREME COURT RULING WITHOUT TOUCHING THE MEAT OF THE, THE, UH, ORDINANCE OR THE, UH, POLICY.
AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS SAYS IS ON ELECTION DAY, THE CITY MANAGER SHALL NOT ENFORCE THE SIGNED ORDINANCE AT POLLING PLACES.
THAT'S IT, THAT'S UP TO THE ELECTION JUDGE TO MANAGE THEIR SITE.
[00:40:01]
UH, THAT'S UNDER COUNTY RULE, AND WE DO NOT WANT TO FIND OURSELVES GETTING INVOLVED IN THAT.OTHERWISE I WOULD CALL THIS THE, UH, PROBABLY THE TERRY DUNN RULE, AND THERE WAS NO MENTION OF THE QUOTE POLITICAL SIGNS ANY LONGER IN THE GDC.
AND SO WE DO NOT ENFORCE QUOTE POLITICAL SIGNS BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY TO DETERMINE IF A SIGN IS POLITICAL AND THAT STORIED IT.
AND, UM, UH, AND SO THE DOWNSIDE AND IN A VERY THEORETICAL WORLD, THAT'S NOT REALLY REALISTIC IS THAT MEANS THAT ON A, ON POLLING DAYS, TACO BELL CAN COME IN AND PUT THEIR SIGNS, TEMPORARY SIGNS, AND AT POLLING PLACES AND OTHER COMMERCIAL ENTITIES, IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
BUT, UM, THAT'S THE DOWNSIDE OF IT IS ANY SIGN CAN GO UP THERE AND ACTUALLY BE WELCOME.
A FREE TACO IF YOU DRIVE OVER TO DALLAS COUNTY STICKER, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA, BUT YEAH, THIS WOULD NOT, UM, OF COURSE COVER ANY SIGN THAT, UH, HAS SPEECH THAT IS NOT CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED CALLS TO VIOLENCE, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, THIS JUST, JUST PUTS US IN LINE WITH THE LAW.
DOES THE CITY MANAGER HAVE A SCALE AND A TAPE MEASURE TO MEASURE SIX SQUARE FEET AND LESS THAN A POUND? PROBABLY NOT.
AND WE DON'T ENFORCE THIS ON PRESUMABLY POLITICAL SIGNS.
WE DON'T SEEM TO HAVE EVER ENFORCED ANYTHING ANYWHERE IN THE, SO TO ME, NOT IN MODERN YEARS, VERY, VERY COGNIZANT OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND HOW QUICKLY THAT GETS VERY, VERY UGLY.
SO, I MEAN, AT SOME POINT THE WHOLE SECTION SEEMS IT GOES AWAY ENTIRELY AT SOME POINT.
SO, I MEAN, IS THIS SOMETHING WE WANT TO JUST MAKE GO AWAY NOW BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT ITEM D ON THIS NO MEMBER OF THE CITY COUNCIL SHE'LL DEMAND THAT ASSIGNED BE REMOVED, OR THEN ANY PROVISION OF THE CITY SIGN REGULATIONS BE ENFORCED, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
I UNDERSTAND THAT WAS PROVOKED BY A COUNCIL MEMBERS, BAD BEHAVIOR IN THE PAST.
BUT, UM, AT THIS POINT, IS THIS WHOLE SECTION, DOES IT MAKE ANY KIND OF SENSE BECAUSE, SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE OUR SIGN ORDINANCES ON ELECTION DAY.
UNLIKE WHAT WE DO EVERY OTHER DAY, WHEN WE DON'T ENFORCE OUR SIGN ORDINANCES, YOU'RE NOT WRONG WHEN THEIR POLITICAL SCIENCE COURSE, WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE PUBLIC BECAUSE WE WOULD NEVER READ DETERMINATION.
UH, DOES THIS DO ANYTHING FOR US? I DON'T THINK SO, BUT THAT'S JUST ONE MAN'S OPINION.
IF WE JUST PUT A BIG X THROUGH IT, WOULD THAT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO HOW WE DO THINGS, UM, THAT HARM US IN ANY WAY LEGALLY? NO, I LIKE SECTION D IN SOME FORM OR FASHION, BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT A SITTING COUNCIL MEMBER TO PRESSURE A MEMBER OF THE STAFF TO TAKE SOME ACTION THAT WOULD BENEFIT THEIR OWN CANDIDATES.
IS THAT THE DEMAND? I MEAN, WHO'S THE DEMAND MEDA JUST SAYS THEY SHALL DEMAND THAT THEY REMOVE IT.
I MEAN, WELL, WE CAN THE DEMAND TO, AND IGNORE IT FOR 12 HOURS.
AND ELECTION DAY IS OVER I'M WITH YOU ON THAT ONE, I CAN TELL YOU THERE'S BEEN PRESSURE PLACED ON OUR OFFICE, ON THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE, NOT NECESSARILY AT POLLING PLACES ON ELECTION DAYS.
UM, BUT YES, THAT IT HASN'T HAPPENED IN THE PAST.
I TAKE THAT BACK CAUSE WE DO, WE'VE NOT RECENTLY, NOT IN THE LAST TWO OR THREE ELECTIONS, BUT PRIOR TO THAT, I KNOW WE HAD A COUPLE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO ROUTINELY COMPLAINED ABOUT ELECTION DAY SIGNS AT POLAND PLACES AND WANTED SOMETHING TO BE DONE.
AND THEY DID NOT LIKE THE ANSWER.
THAT'S A COUNTY, THAT'S A COUNTY ENFORCEMENT ISSUE OR A STATE, A STATE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO CALL IT JUST SO JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND, A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THAT ALSO IS OUR OFFICE FEELS LIKE IT'S IMPORTANT NOT TO GET INVOLVED WITH THAT BECAUSE OF THE POLITICAL NATURE OF THE SIGNS.
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE, WE DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN POLICING POLITICAL SIGNS OF PERSONS THAT ARE RUNNING FOR POLITICAL OFFICE, SUCH AS JUDGES, WHO WE MAY HAVE A CASE IN THEIR COURT IN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS, OR THEY MAY BE TAKING OVER A COURT WHERE WE ALREADY HAVE A CASE OR THAT CITY COUNCIL MEMBER WHO MAY BE MY BOSS IN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO START MY OFF AND NEITHER DOES THE CITY MANAGER OR ANYBODY ELSE AND A CONFLICT OVER A SIGN.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
THIS JUST STRIKES ME AS BEING UTTERLY USELESS.
ALTHOUGH, I MEAN, WE DO WANT TO PROTECT OUR STAFF FROM US
[00:45:01]
BECAUSE WE TEND TO BE, WE TEND TO BE WHINY AND, AND DEMANDING.WE DO THIS DOESN'T D DOES NOT COVER SOMEONE WHO'S NOT ON THE COUNCILS BEING ELECTED EITHER.
CORRECT? OF COURSE THEY CAN'T DEMAND ANYTHING OF THE CITY ANYWAY, THEY HAVE NO, WELL, I CAN MAKE DEMANDS ALL AT ONE.
BUT WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM.
AND WE DO IT CURRENTLY REFER THEM TO CONNIE ELECTION OFFICIALS.
IF THEY HAVE COMPLAINTS ABOUT CANDIDATES, HAVE COMPLAINTS ABOUT SIGNS.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IN TIMES PAST THERE WAS SOME COUNCIL MEMBER WHO ACTUALLY WENT TO A WALMART.
I THINK IT WAS A WALMART AND ORDERED THE STORE MANAGER TO REMOVE AN OPPONENTS SIGN FROM THEIR WINDOW.
SO, UM, SO I LIKE D I JUST A, B AND C, IT'S A WHOLE LOT OF WORDS TO SAY NOTHING.
WHEN WE DON'T ENFORCE POLITICAL SIGN, POSITIONING PLACEMENT, WE DON'T, WE DON'T ENFORCE ANY OF THAT EVER.
UM, I SUPPOSE THAT IN THEORY, ALTHOUGH THIS WOULD BE A LONG WAY DOWN THE ROAD, YOU COULD HAVE A CITY MANAGER WHO HAS, WHO PARTICIPATES IN THE POLITICAL COMINGS AND GOINGS OF COUNCIL.
WE'VE HAD AROUND HERE IN A LONG TIME.
AND SO SUBSECTION B DOES HAVE DIRECTION FOR THE CITY MANAGER IN IT.
AND THAT IS YOU'RE GOING TO ABATE ENFORCEMENT OF, OF, OF ANY SIGN ORDINANCE, UM, UM, ON THE PREMISES OF POLLING PLACES ON ELECTION DAYS, IT IS A VERY NUANCED, ULTIMATELY THE COUNCIL COULD HANDLE THAT BECAUSE CITY MANAGER WORKS FOR THE COUNCIL AND THEN THEY COULD WRITE THAT ON THEIR OWN.
IT'S A VERY NUANCED SECTION AND IT, I CAN SEE IT A MILLION WAYS THAT THIS CAN GO BAD OR GOOD.
AND THAT'S ASSUMING IF YOU HAVE A, AN UNSCRUPULOUS COUNCIL MEMBER AND OR CITY MANAGER THAT THEY EVEN FOLLOW THE POLICY AND WE'VE HAD, THAT WAS IN THE PAST.
WHAT HAPPENS IF THE VIOLATED WELL, NOTHING SO DOWNSIDE TO RULEMAKING AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHY WE DIDN'T WANT TO EVEN PICK THIS THING APART AND WE FAILED ON IT.
YEAH, THE MORE WE READ, IT'S LIKE, EH, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF I WANT TO GET INTO THIS, BUT WE DO NEED TO MAKE IT CONSISTENT WITH LOSS.
ANY THOUGHTS? ANY THAT AREN'T FULL OF FOUR-LETTER WORDS? I MEAN, A READING, IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CAMPER CITY SIGNS ON CITY, PROPERTY AND STREETS, AND THESE POLLING PLACES OTHER THAN LIBRARIES, AREN'T NECESSARILY CITY PROPERTY THAT I CAN THINK OF.
THEY'RE OFTEN ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, COUNTY COLLEGES.
AND IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT EARLY VOTING, WHICH THE SIGNS ARE ALL THERE WEEKS BEFORE ELECTION DAY.
SO THIS AGAIN IS ANOTHER, WE'RE NOT, YEAH.
WE SAY A MORATORIUM ON THAT ONE DAY WHEN THE SIGNS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR TWO WEEKS, UH, I COULD SEE CERTAINLY IF WE WERE GOING TO KEEP THIS, ADJUSTING IT TO BE, WHILE ALL ACTION ACTIVITIES ARE TAKING PLACE OR WHATEVER.
AND THAT INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, RUNOFFS.
UM, I LIKE D IF THERE WAS SOME WAY TO JUST FOCUS ON THAT.
OR, I MEAN, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE GOING TO KEEP THIS, IT NEEDS TO BE ENLARGED TO WHILE ELECTION ACTIVITIES ARE GOING ON AND NOT JUST ELECTION DAY, DO WE WANT TO PITCH SOME IDEAS OFFLINE TO THE CITY ATTORNEY ON, UH, EVERYBODY TAKE A STAB AT THIS AND WE CAN, I MEAN, BRING IT TO THE FULL BODY WHEN WE, A LOT OF THIS CAN BE EDITED OUT, LIKE THE FIRST SENTENCE OF EIGHT JUST CAN GO.
NARRATIVE AND IT'S NOT REGULATION.
AND THIS WHOLE DOCUMENT IS FULL OF THAT KIND OF THING AS WELL.
THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SOME POINT, TAKE A CRACK AT AND READ THAT UNTIL JANUARY.
I TAKE THE RED LINE TO IT AND, OR THE RED PEN AND GET TO WORK.
DO WE, UM, CAN WE GO AHEAD AND JUST, UM, EACH OF US WORK
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ON KIND OF OUR OWN VERSION OF THIS AND WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE WHOLE BODY BECAUSE WHATEVER WE DECIDE HERE, IT'S GOING TO GET TORN APART AGAIN.HOW ABOUT I SEND OUT THE FIRST DRAFT HERE THIS WEEK.
AND THEN Y'ALL WORK OFF MY FIRST DRAFT BECAUSE I HAVE SOME IDEAS BASED ON WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU ALL.
AND I THINK I KNOW WHERE THE DIRECTION THAT, AND Y'ALL ARE IN HAVE SOME IDEAS BEYOND WHAT I'M DRAFTING, BUT THAT WAY Y'ALL CAN RED LINE IT AND SEND IT BACK TO ME.
UH, SO I'LL SEND OUT A FIRST DRAFT THIS WEEK AND GIVE ME, GIVE ME A CHANCE TO CUT THIS DOWN TO MAYBE SIX OR SEVEN SENTENCES.
THAT IS THE LAST CHANGE I'VE SEEN SO FAR.
UM, W WELL, WHAT I'VE SAID IN THE, IN THE AGENDA THAT WE'LL FINALIZE OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
UM, THERE'S, THERE'S NO RUSH ON ANYTHING THAT'S IN HERE.
UH, MR. EDRICK, DID YOU WANT TIME TO TAKE THE RED, THE RED PEN OUT AND WORK ON SOME OF THIS NOW? UH, I WOULD AS LONG, I MEAN, I, I RECEIVED THIS RED LINE DOCUMENT YESTERDAY, SO I SPENT SOME MORE TIME WITH THE DOCUMENT, CERTAINLY.
WHAT DON'T WE, UM, WELL, WE TABLE THIS AND THEN PICK IT UP AGAIN NEXT MONTH AND THAT'LL GIVE EVERYBODY SOME TIME TO WORK THROUGH EVERYTHING.
LIKE I SAID, THERE'S NO RUSH AND LET'S JUST GET IT RIGHT.
AND IF YOU CAN TURN THIS THING DOWN TO, FROM 70 PAGES TO 60, UM, SHARE, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THAT? CAUSE I WOULD HAPPY TO SEND OUT MY RED LIONS TO THE COMMITTEE OR PRESENT THEM AT A COMMITTEE.
HOW WOULD YOU ARE, UH, WORK WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THEN WHY DON'T YOU PLAN TO PRESENT, UH, IN A MONTH.
AND IF, IF THAT WORKS FOR YOU AND IF YOU NEED MORE TIME, WE'LL GIVE YOU MORE TIME.
SO, UH, WE WILL TAKE ITEM TO BE UP AT THE NEXT MEETING.
UH, WE HAVE NO PENDING ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION THAT I'M AWARE OF AND THE, UH, PENDING REPORT TO COUNCIL.
UH, WE WILL, UH, FINISH UP THE, UH, ETHICS DISCUSSION AS A WHOLE, UH, IN NOVEMBER.
AND, UH, THERE'S ALWAYS A POTENTIAL THAT THEY MAY, THAT MIGHT COME BACK TO US.
SO I HAVE IT AS A PENDING REPORT HERE.
I DON'T EXPECT IT TO, UH, BUT I THINK WE'LL BE CLEAR THAT, AND WE'RE ON TO ITEM NUMBER FIVE, WHICH IS A GENTLEMAN.
AND THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.