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YEAH.[Development Services Committee on September 19, 2022.]
INTERESTING.DO YOU WANT US JUST START GET 'EM ALL TOGETHER? SURE.
MEAN, WE'RE GONNA GO STRAIGHT TO YOUR YEAH.
DO WE NEED TO DO SOME KIND OF A FANCY, NO.
I NEED A MICRO I'LL EVEN RUN THE DAILY BOPPER.
UNLESS YOU WANNA TAKE CONTROL OF THE ARROWS.
ALL STILL PRE ARE THESE ALL ON? I GET IT.
THEY ARE, BUT THE DEVELOPER HAS TO EVEN WITHOUT COOL.
CAN, WILL YOU SAY THAT AGAIN IN THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE, PLEASE.
I SEND THAT TO GOT WE, SO, OH, HOLD OVER YOU.
BECAUSE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ITEM.
UM, WE COULD JUST ITEM TWO B, PUT IT, WE FINISHED THIS ITEM REPORTED OUT TO COUNCIL AND SOMEHOW, AND WE MADE THAT OFFICIAL.
AND THEN I GOT MY FOLDER RIGHT HERE.
WELL, I MEAN, IT
AND, BUT HE WAS THINKING IT WAS COMMUNITY SERVICES AND I SAID, NOPE, GDC, I IN SEND IT HERE TO BE, OR NOT TO BE, TO BE, OR NOT TO BE, BUT IT'S NOT TO BE, CUZ WE ALREADY FINISHED IT.
UM, AND DYLAN, BEFORE, BEFORE YOU ANNOUNCE THE START, UM, MARGARET IS PLANNING TO COME AND SIT IN BECAUSE, UM, ONE OF THE, THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS, SHE WAS THE CO-SPONSOR OF THAT.
SHE'S GOT SOME SPECIFIC INPUT.
SO IT IT'S AT YOUR DISCRETION TO INVITE HER TO SPEAK.
COUNCIL MEMBERS ALWAYS WELCOME.
YEAH, SHE'LL BE HERE IN A MOMENT.
AND WELCOME TO THE SEPTEMBER 19TH, 2022 MEETING IN THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE.
UM, MY NAME'S DYLAN HEDRICK CHAIRMAN.
I ALSO HAVE WITH ME, COUNCILMAN JEFF BASS AND COUNCIL LADY, DEBORAH MORRIS.
UH, FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE AUGUST 15TH, 2022 MEETING.
MR. CHAIR, I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE A MOTION AND A SECOND ALL IN FAVOR.
THE, THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED.
MOVING ON TO OUR FIRST ITEM FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION IS FIRE SPRINKLER REQUIREMENTS FOR BUILDINGS, RIGHT, CHIEF.
WELL, GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYBODY.
UH, TODAY BRIA AND I ARE GONNA TOUCH, UH, TOUCH BASE ON FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS IN GARLANDS COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS.
SORRY, I'M FALLING DOWN ON THE JOB.
SO WE'RE GET, I'M GONNA HAVE TO MOVE THAT SO WE CAN SEE.
UH, SO WE'RE GONNA TOUCH A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE CODE.
UH, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE COG AND THE GARLAND AMENDMENTS.
UH, WE'RE GONNA SHOW YOU SOME EXAMPLES OF HOW THESE AMENDMENTS AFFECT OUR RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.
WE'RE ALSO GONNA DISCUSS HOW THOSE AMENDMENTS AFFECT EXISTING BUILDINGS, AND THEN WE'LL GO OVER SOME OF THE METRO JURISDICTIONS, WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
I'LL TRY TO KEEP IT QUICK ON THE HISTORY, BUT IN THE CITY OF GARLAND, WE DID KIND OF A RESEARCH PROJECT CUZ NEITHER ONE OF US WAS, YOU KNOW, HERE AT THIS TIME.
BUT BACK IN 1997, THERE WAS A BUILDING CODE THAT WAS WRITTEN.
IT WAS CALLED THE UNIFORM BUILDING CODE, UNIFORM, FIRE CODE, THE GROUP THAT BUILT THAT WROTE THAT BOOK.
UM, THEY COMBINED WITH SOME OTHER ORGANIZATIONS AND IN 2000 THEY PUBLISHED A 2000 INTERNATIONAL CODE, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW COME FORTH WHEN YOU SEE CODE ADOPTION.
SO THAT TRANSITION HAPPENED ABOUT THAT TIME.
SO IN 2002, THE CITY ACTUALLY ADOPTED THE 2000 INTERNATIONAL FIRE AND BUILDING CODES.
THEN IN 2006, THE CITY ADOPTED THE 2003 INTERNATIONAL BUILDING AND FIRE CODES.
AND THAT YEAR WAS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THAT'S THE YEAR THAT A FEW THINGS HAPPENED, THIS, UM, THE COMMERCIAL, UH, SPRINKLER REQUIREMENTS CHANGED AT THAT TIME.
AND ALSO THE RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLER REQUIREMENTS CHANGED AT THAT TIME.
AND WE AMENDED THAT, UM, TO, UH, REQUIRE THE SPRINKLERS IN RESIDENTIAL, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.
UM, IF THEY WERE OVER 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO THAT 5,000 SQUARE FOOT NUMBER, UM, IS SOMETHING WE ADOPTED FOR THE RESIDENTIAL AT THAT TIME.
THERE'S A SIMILAR REQUIREMENT.
AND WE'LL GET TO THAT HERE IN JUST A MINUTE FOR COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS AS WELL.
SO WE'RE, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE NORTH CENTRAL TEXAS COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS.
SO MOST EVERYBODY, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS GROUP, WE JUST CALL IT THE COG OR COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS.
SO JUST IN CASE YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING
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ABOUT THE COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENT, IT'S A VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATION OF BUY AND FOUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.IT COVERS THE 16 COUNTY REGION.
SO IF YOU SEE DALLAS AND FORT WORTH, ALL OF THE COUNTIES THAT TOUCH TAR AND DALLAS ARE PART OF IT, PLUS THERE ARE ABOUT FIVE IN THE SECONDARY RING THAT ARE PART OF THAT TOO.
AND THEN ONE OF THEIR GOALS IS TO PROMOTE, UM, UH, REGIONAL UNIFORMITY.
SO, UM, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH 16 COUNTIES ALL AROUND DALLAS, EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT CAPABILITIES.
AND SO, UM, THE NORTH CENTRAL TEXAS RE UH, REGIONAL CODE COORDINATING COMMITTEE, I'M GLAD THAT'S WRITTEN DOWN, CUZ THAT'S A MOUTHFUL.
ALSO THEY RECOMMENDED TWO OPTIONS BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THAT EVERYBODY CAN'T DO THE SAME THING.
SO THERE'S AN OPTION A AND AN OPTION B IS WHAT THEY, UM, UH, WHAT'S THE WORD I'M TRYING TO LOOK FOR, UH, THAT THEY RECOMMENDED RECOMMENDED.
UH, AND SO OPTION A SAYS THAT BUILDINGS OVER 55 SQUARE FEET IN HEIGHT SHOULD BE SPRINKLER.
THEN IT TOUCHES BASE ON THE ADDED HIGH PILE, COMBUSTIBLE STORAGE.
AND IN REGARDS TO THAT, IT'S SAYING IF FROM FLOOR TO CEILING, YOU HAVE MORE THAN 12 FEET IN HEIGHT THAT YOU NEED TO GO TO.
UH, CHAPTER 32, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A, A CHAPTER SPECIFICALLY FOR HIGH PILE STORES TO SEE IF YOU NEED A SPRINKLER SYSTEM, DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU HAVE IN THERE.
AND THEN WE ALSO ADDED, OR THE COG ADDED THAT NEW AND EXISTING SPRAY BOOTHS AND ROOMS HAD TO BE SPRINKLED.
OPTION B SAYS THAT BUILDINGS OVER 35 FEET IN HEIGHT SHOULD BE SPRINKLED.
SO IT WENT DOWN FROM 55 AND A TO 35 AND B THE HIGH PILE COMBUSTIBLE STORAGE AND THE NEW AND EXISTING SPRAY BOOTH AND ROOMS STAYED THE SAME.
AND THEN WHAT ELSE IT ADDED IS THAT BUILDINGS OVER 6,000 SQUARE FEET WILL BE SPRINKLED.
AND ON TOP OF THAT, THEY ALSO DENOTED THAT FIREWALLS CANNOT BE USED TO SEPARATE A STRUCTURE INTO MULTIPLE BUILDINGS.
SO BASICALLY BUILDINGS WITHIN BUILDINGS.
THEN WE HAVE GARLAND AMENDMENTS ON TOP OF THAT.
NOW, WHEN WE GOT TO THE GARLAND AMENDMENTS, THEY REDUCED FROM 6,000 TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
UH, AN EXCEPTION WAS ALSO ADDED IN OUR GARLAND AMENDMENTS IN THIS AREA THAT SAYS, UH, AWNINGS AND CANOPIES OF NON COMBUSTIBLE CONSTRUCTION.
DON'T COUNT TOWARDS THAT 5,000 SQUARE FEED BECAUSE TYPICALLY WHENEVER YOU BUILD SOMETHING AND YOU ATTACH IT TO A BUILDING, THEN THAT BECOMES PART OF THE BUILDING.
SO THAT'S KIND OF A, A LITTLE THING THAT THEY ADDED IN THERE.
AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT STORING A BUNCH OF STUFF UNDER THERE, IT DOESN'T COUNT TOWARDS THAT 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
THERE WAS ALSO AN EXCEPTION ADDED FOR ADDITIONS WITH LESS THAN A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET.
SO IF YOU HAVE A BUILDING AND YOU'RE ADDING ADDITIONAL SPACE TO IT, AS LONG AS IT'S UNDER A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, IT DOESN'T CAUSE THE WHOLE THING TO HAVE TO BE SPRINKLED, BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IN LIEU OF THAT.
AND THEN EXPANDED TENANT SPACES WERE ADDED ON THAT.
SO IF YOU HAVE A BUILDING AND BACK IN THE DAY, ONE SIDE WAS 4,001 SIDE WAS 2000 AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO BE SPRINKLER IF SOMEBODY DECIDES, OKAY, WELL WE'RE TEARING DOWN THE WALL WHEN WE'RE MAKING THIS WHOLE 6,001 BUSINESS.
WELL, NOW YOU HAVE TO SPRINKLE IT.
AND SO EXAMPLES, I'M GONNA TURN THAT OVER.
SO ARE YOU THOROUGHLY CONFUSED? OKAY.
I ACTUALLY, I DO HAVE A QUESTION.
WHAT IS A SPRAY BOOTH SPRAY BOOTH IT'S USED FOR PAINTING CARS AND OH, THAT KIND OF SPRAY BOOTH.
SOMETIMES THEY USE, EXCUSE ME, SIR.
CAN YOU, UM, WE'LL CALL ON COMMONS.
SO, YOU KNOW, THEY USE IT ALSO FOR LIKE WOODWORKING.
SOMETIMES THEY'LL HAVE SPRAY BOOTHS FOR THAT TOO, BUT IT'S MOSTLY FOR AUTOMOTIVE VERSUS YEAH.
UM, SO I'M GONNA GIVE YOU SOME VISUALS.
WHY, WHY, AND WHEN DID GARLAND PUT IN THE AMENDMENT TAKING, REDUCING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE FROM 6,000 FEET TO 5,000 FEET? SO THE EARLIEST THAT I SAW THAT WAS IN 2003 AND WHY ANY IDEA WHY WE DID THAT? I DON'T HAVE AN IDEA.
I HAVE AN IDEA ON WHY, BUT I CAN'T GIVE YOU A CONCRETE REASON WHY THE IDEA ON WHY IS BECAUSE YOU KNOW, OUR CAPABILITIES, WE ONLY RIDE THREE ON AN ENGINE AND TRUCK.
SO THAT EXTRA THOUSAND SQUARE FEET DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A LOT UNTIL YOU ONLY HAVE THREE PEOPLE, COMPANIES HAVING TO RESPOND TO THAT AND TRYING TO KNOCK IT OUT.
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SO THAT'S LESS SPACE THAT WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT SPREADING, YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAVE TO DEFEND IS, IS MY ASSUMPTION, BUT THAT, THAT'S ONE OF THOSE WHERE I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND EXACTLY WHY, BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE OTHER CITIES THAT ARE 5,000 ALSO NOT JUST GARLAND.AND WHILE I'M ASKING A QUESTION AND THEN MR. CHAIR, I WILL, I WILL LET THEM PROCEED TO THE END.
DO I, I DON'T SEE LOOKING THROUGH HERE THAT WE HAVE ANY KIND OF A MATRIX SHOWING, UM, SQUARE FEET PERCENTAGES OR, OR SQUARE FEET REQUIREMENTS IN OTHER CITIES I SEE IN OPTION B, BUT SINCE OTHER CITIES, I, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE, BECAUSE THIS IS PROBLEMATIC.
I WILL TELL YOU IN MY DOWNTOWN PROBLEMATIC TO HAVE THIS BE CAPPED AT SUCH A LOW NUMBER AND TO REQUIRE MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF SPRINKLER SYSTEMS, IT IS A PROBLEM.
SO I'M, I'M GONNA BE PRESSING ON THE RATIONALE BEHIND IT AND WHAT, WHAT OUR SURROUNDING CITIES DO BECAUSE WE DRIVE BUSINESSES OFF.
SO, AND WE HAVE SOME EXAMPLES.
SO I'VE, I'VE MADE UP SOME VISUAL MODELS THAT ARE THEY'RE AND SO YOU CAN GET AN IDEA OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, IT'S IT, IT'S HELPFUL.
UM, SO, AND WE CAN PASS THESE AROUND IF YOU WANT TO, BUT I'LL SET 'EM UP HERE.
SO THIS WOULD BE AN OPTION, A RESTAURANT, OR MAYBE A SMALL CHURCH OPTION A IS THE 55 FEET, THE, WITHOUT THE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT CAP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO THAT'S ACTUALLY A REPRESENTATION.
NOW THE BLUE LINE WOULD BE A REQUIREMENT IN THE CODE THAT YOU PUT AN INTERIOR PARTITION INSIDE THE BUILDING TO SEPARATE IT INTO TWO COMPARTMENTS, AND THAT PROVIDES ADDITIONAL FIRE PROTECTION.
THIS WOULD BE THE OPTION THAT IS THE GARLAND AMENDMENT OF THE SAME BUILDING.
NOW, NEITHER OF THESE WOULD NEED A SPRINKLER SYSTEM.
THIS WOULD BE 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
THIS IS A, A REPRESENTATION OF WHAT WOULD BE BUILT WITH THE OPTION A IN SQUARE FEET, WITHOUT A SPRINKLER SYSTEM.
THE OTHER THING TO KNOW ABOUT THIS IS THAT THE FIREWALL RULE MAKES A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE ALSO WITH OPTION A, YOU COULD PUT A FIREWALL IN AND YOU COULD BUILD THIS BUILDING AGAIN RIGHT NEXT TO IT, AND THEN YOU COULD DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
SO THIS IS WHERE THE, THE DIFFERENCE REALLY FALLS BETWEEN THE TWO OPTIONS AND WHAT, WHAT HOUR FIRE RATING WALL.
THIS WOULD BE A FIREWALL MOST OF THE TIME.
THESE ARE VERY, UH, THESE ARE USUALLY MASONRY AND THEY'RE USUALLY THREE HOUR OR THREE HOUR.
SO THEY'RE, THIS IS TECHNICALLY IN THE OPTION EIGHT.
IT ACTUALLY DIVIDES A BUILDING INTO TWO ACTUAL SEPARATE BUILDINGS.
MM-HMM
IT'S JUST A COUPLE OF VISUALS.
UM, THIS WOULD BE OPTION A FOR, UH, RETAIL.
THIS WOULD BE A ONE STORY BUILDING.
UM, THIS WOULD BE THE OPTION B OR ACTUALLY THIS WOULD BE THE, THE GARLAND AMENDMENT ONE.
THIS WOULD BE, UH, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY FAIR AMOUNT LARGER.
UM, SO THAT GIVES YOU SOME IDEA.
AND AGAIN, YOU COULD BUILD ANOTHER ONE IF YOU PUT A FIREWALL IN, UM, THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO OPTIONS? SO TALKING ABOUT EXISTING BUILDINGS, SO EXISTING BUILDINGS TYPICALLY FALL UNDER THE RULES OF THE CODE THAT THEY WERE ADOPTED OR THE THEY'RE THEY'RE TYPICALLY FALL UNDER THE RULES OF THE CODES THAT WERE IN PLACE AT THE TIME THAT THE BUILDING WAS BUILT.
UM, AS LONG AS IT STAYS, UH, AS LONG AS IT'S THE SAME OCCUPANCY OR THE SAME USE THAT THEY'RE NOT DOING SOME OF THESE OTHER RECONFIGURATIONS OR MAKING ADDITIONS.
UM, THE EXCEPTION WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER WOULD TYPICALLY BE IF THEY ADD A SPRAY BOOTH, OBVIOUSLY THE SPRAY BOOTH WOULD HAVE TO BE, UM, ADDED TO THAT.
SO OF, BUT IN MOST BUILDINGS, THAT'S THE CASE.
ONCE YOU DO A CHANGE OF OCCUPANCY, THEN THE BUILDING HAS TO BE BROUGHT UP TO THE CURRENT BUILDING AND FIRE CODE REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO BASED ON OUR AMENDMENTS, WE WOULD LOOK AT THOSE AS THE GUIDANCE AS TO WHAT YOU NEED TO BRING IT UP TO.
AND OF COURSE IT DEPENDS ON THERE'S A LOT OF, KIND OF DETAILS ABOUT OCCUPANCY CHANGE AND WHAT THAT IS.
BUT WE REVIEW THAT WHEN WE GET CERTIFICATE OCCUPANCY REQUESTS INTO OUR OFFICE AND THEY GO, OBVIOUSLY WE WORK TOGETHER TO DO THAT.
SO SOME OF THE JURISDICTIONS THAT ADOPT A AND SIMILAR RULES ARE DALLAS FORT WORTH AND ARLINGTON.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE WITH THE LESSER STRINGENT, UM, REQUIREMENTS ARE USUALLY THE BIGGER CITIES THAT HAVE MORE RESOURCES AND THEN JURISDICTIONS WITH B AND SIMILAR RULES ARE MESQUITE RICHARDSON, PLANO IRVING MCKINNEY, CARROLLTON,
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ROCK WALL, AND FARMER'S BRANCH.AND SO THOSE ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU'LL FIND ABOUT THE CODE IS THERE ARE A LOT OF LITTLE TWEAKS AT DIFFERENT CITIES DO SPECIFIC TO THEIR CITY, TOO.
AND BETWEEN THESE OPTION B ADOPTERS, THERE'S A KIND OF A MIX OF THE 5,000 AND 6,000 NUMBER.
SO, UM, THERE'S IN OUR AREA, THERE'S QUITE A FEW THAT ARE ON THE 5,000 NUMBER, YOU KNOW, THE ONES DIRECTLY AROUND US.
AND IT KIND OF VARIES BETWEEN MEAN, UM, SO THAT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT SPRINKLERS.
UM, AND WE'RE HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.
WE WERE JUST TRYING TO GIVE YOU A HIGH LEVEL, HOW IT WORKS.
I WASN'T, I WAS TRYING NOT TO LOOK AHEAD
UM, I MEAN, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO KEEP OUR CITIZENS SAFE, BUT IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT, UM, THAT WE PROMOTE, PROMOTE THE ECONOMIC WELLBEING OF OUR CITY.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT FROM MULTIPLE PERSPECTIVES.
I MEAN, UNDERSTAND YOUR PERSPECTIVE, UNDERSTAND BRITISH'S PERSPECTIVE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HERE TO REPRESENT THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITY OF GARLAND.
AND, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP AS SOMETHING FOR US TO DISCUSS BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP MULTIPLE TIMES FROM MULTIPLE CITIZENS WHO ARE DEALING WITH THE STRESS OF NOT BEING ABLE TO DO BUSINESS IN THIS CITY AND HAVING TO TURN BUSINESS AWAY FROM THIS CITY BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE IT'S THE, THERE'S AN OBSTACLE IN THE WAY, YOU KNOW, AND I REALLY DON'T WANT THERE TO BE OBSTACLES IN THE WAY OF DOING BUSINESS IN THE CITY OF GARLAND.
WE WANT TO PROMOTE OUR ECONOMIC WELLBEING.
AND SO LOOKING AT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE, THAT, THAT I FEEL, UM, AND I WAS ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA.
I'VE HAD ISSUES WITH THIS, NOT IN MY DISTRICT, BUT IT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO ME, UM, AS WELL AS DEBORAH HAS HAD AND HEARD DISTRICT.
SO REALLY LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION, UM, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, WHAT SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENTS CITIES AROUND US HAVE, UM, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BE, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I DON'T WANNA BE DOING THINGS TO, TO DISSUADE PEOPLE FROM COMING TO GARLAND AND DOING BUSINESS HERE.
SO I'D, I'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW WE COMPARE TO OTHER CITIES AROUND US, BECAUSE THAT'S WHO OUR COMPETITION IS.
IF WE'RE NOT KEEPING UP WITH THE COMPETITION, THEN WE'RE FALLING BEHIND AND I CAN SAY, GENERALLY THE CITIES DIRECTLY AROUND US, MM-HMM
AND THEN FROM THERE, THE OTHER CITIES KIND OF IN THE METRO AREA THAT WERE IN THAT OPTION, B SOME OF THOSE HAVE ADOPTED THE 6,000 SQUARE FOOT NUMBER, BUT THE RULES ARE GENERALLY THE SAME AS WHAT WE DISCUSSED.
SO, AND WE CAN CERTAINLY OUTLINE THAT FOR YOU VERY SPECIFICALLY, IF, IF YOU'D LIKE US TO, YEAH, I WOULD, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.
BUT IN THE GENERAL RULE, WHAT, WHAT SHE SAID, AND I'LL ECHO WHAT SHE SAYS, MOST OF THE SMALLER, SMALLER CITIES ARE PRETTY MUCH WORST CASE OR BEST CASE 6,000 SQUARE FEET VERSUS FIVE.
THEY'RE NOT GOING ALL THE WAY UP TO 12 OR 14.
ARE THERE ANY CITIES THAT ARE, ARE THERE ANY CITIES IN NORTH CENTRAL TEXAS THAT ARE ABOVE 6,000 SQUARE FEET? OH YEAH.
I MEAN, YOU GO BEYOND THAT IN AUSTIN COMING FROM, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE COUNTRY.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT EVERYWHERE I'VE EVER WORKED OPTION A OR EVEN JUST PLAIN OLD, WHAT THE CODE SAYS IS WHAT WE'VE USED.
SO I COULD SEE, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY LARGER CONTRACTORS WHO WORK ACROSS THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, THIS BEING VERY, VERY DIFFERENT FOR THEM.
SO IT'S, YEAH, VERY, UM, DEFINITELY MUCH MORE RESTRICTIVE IF YOU WANNA CALL IT THAT FROM WHAT I'M USED TO WORKING WITH, BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S, THERE'S A LONG HISTORY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, LEARNING AND JUST TRYING TO GIVE YOU INFORMATION.
AND ALSO, SO IN GARLAND, BOTH OPTION A AND OPTION B, THEY, THEY BOTH HAVE THE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT REQUIREMENT, RIGHT? NO OPTION A IS JUST, THERE IS NO SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENT.
YOU JUST FOLLOW WHAT THE CODE SAYS, MM-HMM
BUT, UM, GENERALLY THAT, FROM MY EXPERIENCE THAT DOESN'T USUALLY COME INTO PLAY A WHOLE LOT BECAUSE YOU KNOW, NOT TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE BUILDING HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS HERE.
AND SO WE HAVE, OKAY, SO IN HERE IN GARLAND, THEY HAVE A CHOICE OF OPTION A OR OPTION
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B.SO THE COG MM-HMM
AND ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS FOR THE, ONE OF THEIR GOALS IS REGIONAL UNIFORMITY.
AND WHAT THEY SAY IS THAT WHEN SOMEBODY GOES FROM THIS CITY TO THIS CITY, TO THIS CITY, THEN THEY KIND OF KNOW KIND OF, YOU KNOW, IF WE GO TO RICHARDSON, PLANO GARLAND, THIS IS ABOUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, AND THESE ARE THE RULES I GO TO DALLAS, WELL, THAT'S A DIFFERENT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES, AND THIS IS, THIS IS WHAT WE FOLLOW.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT B THE MORE RESTRICTIVE ONES, AGAIN, I'LL, I'LL SAY THE MORE RESTRICTIVE ARE USUALLY THE SMALLER CITIES THAT DON'T HAVE AS MANY RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND.
I MEAN, CUZ WE DON'T RIDE WITH FOUR OR FIVE ON A TRUCK TO GO TO A FIRE LIKE DALLAS DOES.
AND YOU KNOW, YOU EMPTY OUT A CORE OF THE CITY OF DALLAS TO RESPOND TO A HIGHRISE FIRE.
WELL, YOU KNOW, THEIR QUARTER OF THEIR CITIES ARE WHOLE APARTMENT PLUS SOME.
SO GARLAND IS AN OPTION B CITY.
IT'S JUST B WELL, NO, WE HAVE A CHOICE.
WE COULD BE OPTION A OR B IF WE WANTED TO.
BUT RIGHT RIGHT NOW WE'RE RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW WE ARE, WE ARE ACTUALLY B PLUS AMENDMENTS.
SO I'M JUST TRYING TO THUMB THROUGH ALL THIS AND GET IT ALL STRAIGHT HERE.
SO A IS DALLAS FORT WORTH EARLIER TIME AND MOST OTHER CITIES ARE B MM-HMM
I, I TRIED TO PICK ONES THAT WERE KIND OF AROUND OUR SIZE.
SO RIGHT NOW GARLAND IS AN OPTION B CITY.
WITH THE ADDED RESTRICTIONS FROM THE NEXT PAGE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
B PLUS WE ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTION TO ADD ADDITIONAL AMENDMENTS BASED ON RIGHT.
AND, AND, AND I'LL GIVE YOU, I'LL GIVE YOU A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A GARLAND SPECIFIC CODE AND, AND WHY, WHY WE HAVE THE LATITUDE TO DO THINGS LIKE THAT.
THERE'S A, A CERTAIN, ONE OF OUR AMENDMENTS THAT WE HAVE IN THERE THAT DEALS WITH TWO ENTRANCES TO GO IN, YOU KNOW, INTO A COMMUNITY THAT'S BEING BUILT OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
AND THE REASON WHY THAT WAS PICKED IS THAT A LONG TIME AGO, EITHER MICHAEL OR HIS PREDECESSOR NOTICED THAT WE HAD A LONG, A BUNCH OF LONG SKINNY TRACKS OF LAND THAT ONLY HAD ONE ENTRANCE DOWN HERE BY THE CODE.
YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE DIAGONAL, CUT THAT IN HALF.
AND THAT'S HOW YOUR ENTRANCES HAVE TO BE.
WELL, IF WE FOLLOWED THAT YOU WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO BUILD ON THESE PIECES OF LAND.
SO THERE ARE THINGS IN THERE LIKE THAT, OR THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT THIS IS MY FAVORITE ONE, THAT'S IN THE CODE THAT SAYS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE, UM, UH, SPRINKLER RISE ROOM.
AND SO THEY GO, OKAY, AND HERE'S THE WAREHOUSE AND THEY PUT IT RIGHT HERE.
NOW WHAT GOOD IS THE SPRINKLER RISE ROOM FOR US TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH BURNING BUILDING TO GO TO THE MIDDLE, GET TO IT.
SO THEN WE SAID, OKAY, YOU NEED TO PUT IT ON THE OUTSIDE WALL.
SO THEY DID, BUT WE DIDN'T SPECIFY THAT THE DOOR HAD TO BE ON THE OUTSIDE.
SO NOW WE STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WAREHOUSE TO GET TO THE SPRINKLER RISE ROOM.
SO IN OUR AMENDMENTS WE SPECIFICALLY SAID IT HAS TO BE ON THE OUTSIDE WALL WITH THE DOOR OPENING FROM THE OUTSIDE SO WE CAN GET TO IT.
SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE REASONS, I MEAN THE CODE'S NOT PERFECT AND, AND YOU HAVE TO FIND THINGS LIKE THAT AND ADJUST TO IT.
I, I DON'T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW.
UM, SO IN ADDITION TO COUNCILMAN BASS'S REQUEST FOR, UM, SPECIFICS ABOUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENTS OF SURROUNDING CITIES, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO KNOW THE, UM, SINCE, SINCE WE HAVE AMENDED IN OTHER CITIES HAVE APPARENTLY AMENDED AS WELL, OPTION B UM, THE, UM, FIREWALLS CANNOT BE USED TO SEPARATE A STRUCTURE INTO SEPARATE BUILDINGS.
I WOULD LIKE THAT PIECE OF INFORMATION ABOUT ALL OF OUR SURROUNDING CITIES AS WELL.
SO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THAT, AND, AND AGAIN, WE ALMOST LOST LA AND BAKERY OVER THIS ISSUE OVER A PITIFUL NUMBER OF FEET DIFFERENCE.
SO I WOULD AT A MINIMUM LIKE US TO UNDO OUR AMENDMENT, REDUCING SQUARE FOOTAGE TO 5,000, BUT WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE MORE DATA BEFORE REACHING A SOLID CONCLUSION ON THAT.
AND I HAVE A LOT OF THAT ALREADY PULLED TOGETHER FOR YOU.
IT GETS A LITTLE DEEP, SO MOST, BUT MOST OF THEM GENERALLY WHEN THEY'VE MADE THAT B AMENDMENT OR THE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT AMENDMENT TO THE AMENDMENT, UM, MOST OF THEM HAVE, I MEAN, I CAN'T THINK OF ONE THAT DIDN'T ALSO AMEND THE FIREWALL.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU HAVE TO, YOU CAN'T PUT A FIREWALL IN AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
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ACROSS THE BOARD.I CAN TELL YOU THAT, BUT I CAN GIVE YOU VERY SPECIFICS BY CITY.
WE, WE WOULD LIKE THAT PROBABLY.
UM, CAN YOU TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT A FIREWALL, ABOUT A FIREWALL? YEAH.
I MEAN, UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND IT'S A BREAK, IT'S A BREAK TO KEEP A FIRE FROM SPREADING, RIGHT.
BUT I GUESS I'M TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND WHY THAT WOULD NOT SATISFY, YOU KNOW, SEPARATING A BUILDING INTO, INTO SEPARATE BUILDINGS.
THEY USED TO USE FIREWALLS BEFORE ALL THE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS. SO A LOT OF OUR BUILDINGS DOWNTOWN DO HAVE FIREWALLS.
AND TYPICALLY THEY WILL, AS, AS BRIA WAS SAYING, THEY'LL BE MASONRY.
THEY'LL GO FROM FLOOR ALL THE WAY UP TO AT LEAST THE CEILING OR ROOF AND PROBABLY THROUGH.
AND THAT'S USUALLY WHAT YOU SEE.
AND THEY WERE BUILT THAT IF A FIRE HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, THIS WHOLE THING CAN FALL DOWN AND THIS ONE WILL STILL WORK.
AND ONCE AGAIN, A LOT OF THIS HAPPENED BEFORE MY TIME.
SO I, I CAN'T GIVE YOU ALL THE, I, I DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY.
I CAN JUST WORK WITH WHAT I HAVE.
AND SOME OF THIS IS JUST MY IDEAS, SPRINKLER SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY SAY 90 HIGH NINETIES, THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM WILL, WILL KEEP A, A FIRE IN CHECK, YOU KNOW, AND ALLOW US TO GET THERE BEFORE EVERYTHING IS BURNT DOWN.
SO OF COURSE, A, YOU KNOW, A SPRINKLER SYSTEM IS A SENTINEL.
IT'S ALWAYS THERE, NOT SOMEBODY WALKING AROUND AND THEY CAN GET TIRED AND ALL THAT IS GONNA WORK UNLESS SOMEBODY CUTS OFF THE WATER TO IT.
UH, THE ONLY OTHER THING I CAN THINK OF WITH THE FIREWALLS AND AN ASSUMPTION IS A FIREWALL IS ONLY IS GOOD AS IT IS MAINTAINING ITS INTEGRITY.
AND WHAT, WHAT WE FIND A LOT OF TIMES IN THESE FIREWALLS IS THAT PEOPLE ARE DRILLING HOLES THROUGH 'EM RUNNING PLUMBING THROUGH 'EM RUNNING ELECTRICAL STUFF THROUGH 'EM AND ALL THAT.
AND THEN AS SOON AS YOU BOIL A HOLE THROUGH THAT, THAT HEAT AND SMOKE CAN FOLLOW THAT AND MOVE TO THE NEXT ONE.
SO THAT'S, ONCE AGAIN, I CAN'T TELL YOU FOR SURE, BUT THAT'S PROBABLY MY THOUGHT ON WHY THE BIG PUSH WAS TO DO THAT IS BECAUSE PEOPLE DRILL HOLES IN THEM.
IF, IF EVERYBODY WOULD LEAVE 'EM ALONE AND NEVER TOUCH 'EM, THEN THEY WOULD DO THEIR JOB.
BUT AS SOON AS YOU START POKING HOLES IN 'EM AND RUNNING STUFF THROUGH 'EM AND MAKING CHANNELS AND ALL THAT, AND THE THING IS, IS A LOT OF TIMES WE DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GOT IT UP, UP HERE IN A CONCEALED SPACE.
WE'RE NOT GONNA GO WHEN WE DO AN INSPECTION AND POP THE TILES ON EVERYTHING TO GO, HEY, DID THEY RUN A BUNCH OF STUFF THAT HAD A BUNCH OF HOLES IN IT? YOU KNOW? SO THAT, THAT'S MY THOUGHT.
I HOPE THAT ANSWERED AS BEST I COULD.
ALL RIGHT, SIR, ARE YOU HERE FOR COMMENT ON THIS ITEM? UH, MY NAME'S JIM HOBE.
MM-HMM
I'M LEARNING FROM THESE TWO FOLKS.
AND ALSO I LEARNED FROM JIM O THE IDEA OF PVC RUN THROUGH LIKE THAT.
IF YOU WATCH A BURN SAMPLE OF PVC OR EVEN PVC PIPE, YOU'LL SEE THAT AS THE HEAT GROWS IN THE FIRE, THE SMOKE STARTS TO COME THROUGH, FOLLOWS THAT PIPE AND WILL ACT LIKE A FUSE AND DETONATE ON THE OTHER SIDE, IT'S IT IT'S NASTY.
AND I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN IN BUILDINGS.
WE HAD SEVERAL, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN SEVERAL PEOPLE, DRILLING HOLES AND WALLS AND MOVING STUFF THROUGH, ESPECIALLY OUR IT FOLKS, GOD BLESS THEIR HEARTS.
THEY, THEY WILL, THEY'LL RUN PVC WIRE THROUGH THEIR, IN OUR HURRY.
AND THAT STUFF IS JUST HORRIBLE.
WHEN A FIRE STARTS JUST A COMMENT.
ONE THING I MIGHT ADD TO YOUR, IF YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE GOING THROUGH AN ADDING MORE DETAIL, IS THIS INCLUDE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE GROUP CLASSIFICATION TYPE FOR THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF BUILDINGS, CUZ THAT PLAYS INTO THE FIRE CODE AS WELL.
WHAT GROUP CLASSIFICATION FOR EACH BUILDING? I THINK IT'S A LITTLE OVERSIMPLIFIED IN WHAT YOU PROVIDED HERE, BUT THERE'S ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS AND SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENTS FOR DEPENDING ON WHAT TYPE OF CLASSIFICATION YOU ARE THAT, YEAH, THAT'S VERY TRUE.
SO, UM, I, I HAD ANOTHER EXAMPLE.
I DIDN'T WANNA OVERWHELM YOU WITH EXAMPLES TODAY CAUSE IT CAN GET VERY DEEP AND CONFUSING, BUT UM, IT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BIGGER IN THE CODE OR IN OPTION A, IF YOU WANNA CALL IT THAT, CAUSE THAT'S PRETTY MUCH FOLLOW THE CODE.
IF YOU WANNA CALL IT THAT OPTION, THERE IS A VERY COMPLEX, UM, SORT OF, UH, UH, CROSSOVER BETWEEN WHAT THE BUILDING'S MADE OF AND HOW
[00:30:01]
BIG IT CAN BE.IS IT, IS IT, IS THE USE DANGEROUS IF IT'S DANGEROUS USE, THEN IT CAN, IT CAN, CAN'T BE AS BIG.
AND SO, YEAH, THERE'S A VERY, VERY PROGRESSIVE SORT OF WAY THAT THAT WORKS.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, TO THERE'S ALL, A LOT OF FACTORS INVOLVED IN THAT, BUT THAT, THAT DOES MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.
I HAD A MODEL OF AN OFFICE BUILDING, WHICH CAN BE, YOU KNOW, THIS BIG, WITHOUT A SPRINKLER SYSTEM BECAUSE OFFICE USES ARE RELATIVELY UH NON-HAZARDOUS LET'S CALL IT.
AND I THINK THAT MAY BE SOME OF THIS DISCUSSION JUST IF THERE'S RESTAURANT TYPE USES OR THAT KIND OF THING WHERE IT'S NON-OFFICE OR IT'S A LITTLE MORE HIGHER RISK CLASSIFICATION.
SO I'D APPRECIATE THAT THEN IN THE DISCUSSION AS WELL.
MR. CHAIR, MAY I JUST ASK? SURE.
SO, SO SINCE WE ARE AN OPTION B, I'M CALLING IT B MINUS SINCE WE TOOK AWAY SOME OF THE ABILITIES HERE, UM, SINCE, SINCE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING, ARE YOU SAYING THAT EVEN NOW UNDER OUR OPTION B RESTRICTIONS THAT AN OFFICE BUILDING OF 10,000 SQUARE FEET WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED TO BE SPRINKLED? NO, IT STILL WOULD BE 5,000, SO IT DOESN'T IT.
SO OPTION A GIVES YOU THAT FLEXIBILITY DEPENDING ON THE USE TO SAY SPRINKLE THIS ONE, BUT THIS ONE CAN BE LARGER BECAUSE IT'S NOT A HIGH RISK USE.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A VERY, IT'S AN INTERSECTION OF SEVERAL FACTORS, BUT YES, IN GENERAL, OKAY.
THE LESS HAZARDOUS THE USE AND THE MORE NON COMBUSTIBLE IT IS, THE LARGER, YOU CAN BUILD IT WITHOUT A SPRINKLER SYSTEM.
AND THERE'S OTHER FACTORS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE A ROAD OR A YARD AROUND A BUILDING, YOU CAN MAKE IT 75% LARGER AND NOT SPRINKLER, THERE'S ALL THESE RULES THAT COME INTO PLAY.
THE B OPTION IS VERY MUCH 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
WHICH IS WHAT WE KEEP RUNNING INTO.
SO IF I'VE HEARD THIS CORRECT.
SO IF WE WERE TO SWITCH TO OPTION A, THAT WOULD GIVE US MORE FLEXIBILITY TO HAVE A GREATER VARIETY OF OPTIONS.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE COULD HAVE A HIGH RISK CATEGORY.
WE COULD HAVE A LOW RISK CATEGORY.
WE COULD HAVE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT VARIABLES BUILT INTO IT, BUT ONLY IF WE WERE OPTION A NOT WITH OPTION B YES.
OPTION A WOULD GIVE YOU A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY.
AND IT WOULD BE BASED ON THOSE THINGS, RISK WOULD BASED ON TYPE OF USE AND TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION OR WHAT IT'S MADE OUT OF AND B YOU KNOW, AND, OR YOU COULD DO SOMETHING YOU, YOU COULD CHOOSE NOT TO FOLLOW THE COG AND CREATE SOME OTHER KIND OF FLEXIBILITY.
THAT WOULD BE AN OPTION C THAT YOU COULD DO.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE, THAT'S THE NICE THING ABOUT IT.
YOU, YOU HAVE OPTIONS AND IT DEPENDS ON, UM, WHERE YOUR COMFORT LEVEL FALLS AND IT THERE'S A FACTORS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, RISK MITIGATION FROM A FIRE PERSPECTIVE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE.
UM, THERE'S ALL THESE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES THAT COME INTO PLAY.
AND SO, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S A COMPLEX ISSUE WHEN YOU GET INTO IT, THE, THE NUMBERS ARE COMPLEX ENOUGH THE WAY IT IS, BUT YEAH, IT'S COMPLEX.
I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S, THIS IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING WORTH, UM, LOOKING INTO QUITE A BIT MORE BECAUSE I MEAN, OF COURSE WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO MAINTAIN SAFETY STANDARDS, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO HINDER THE ECONOMIC GROWTH OF OUR CITY EITHER.
SO I THINK THAT THIS REALLY IS A LOT GONNA GO A LOT DEEPER THAN I WAS EXPECTING.
SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION REALLY APPRECI APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION.
I JUST THINK WE NEED TO HAVE A LOT MORE INVESTIGATING WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE JUST BASED ON WHAT WE'VE HEARD HERE TONIGHT IS, UM, LOOKING AT OPTION A WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT OPTIONS WITHIN THAT BASED UPON RISK RISK FACTORS AND IN ADDITION TO SQUARE FOOTAGE, UM, YEAH, CUZ I'VE, LIKE I SAID, I'VE RUN INTO THIS WHERE, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, I MEAN, WHEN WE GET PHONE CALLS, THEY'RE ALL ONE SIDED AND BIASED.
BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN SOMETHING'S DESCRIBED TO ME AND IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, A BUILDING A LITTLE OVER 5,000 SQUARE FEET, IT'S JUST A WAREHOUSE AND NOT IN COMBUSTIBLES AND ALL THIS AND THEY DON'T WANNA SPEND HOWEVER MUCH IT COSTS.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER WHEN SOMEBODY TELLS YOU A BUNCH OF NON COMBUSTIBLES, THEN THEY CAN ALWAYS PUT A BUNCH OF COMBUSTIBLES IN THERE WHEN WE'RE NOT THERE.
AND WE'RE HAVING TO RESPOND AT TWO O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING WHEN THAT DUDE CATCHES ON FIRE TOO.
AND ONCE AGAIN, REMEMBER THE CITY OF GARLAND, WE ONLY HAVE THREE PEOPLE TYPICALLY PER ENGINE COMPANY.
WE'RE NOT FOR LIKE DALLAS, SO RIGHT.
WELL, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AND TO YOUR POINT THERE, UH, CHIEF, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE ASSUMING THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DRILL THROUGH A FIREWALL, WE, WE, I DON'T THINK WE CAN GO INTO SITUATIONS ASSUMING THAT EVERYBODY IN INVOLVED IN THAT SITUATION IS GOING TO BASICALLY
[00:35:01]
BREAK THE LAW.YOU KNOW, OR GO AGAINST CODE OR WHATEVER THAT CASE MAY BE.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT WE COULD, WE SHOULD GOVERN FROM THAT VIEWPOINT.
BUT I WOULD, I I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE, BUT I, I MEAN WITH THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU SHOWING, BUT I CAUTION AGAINST JUMPING INTO ANY CONCLUSION TOO QUICKLY BECAUSE THE ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS WHO PUT THESE CODES TOGETHER, THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE IS THEIR NUMBER ONE CONCERN.
AND I DO NOT WANNA COMPROMISE THAT FOR ANY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AT ALL.
IF THE BUILDING BURNS DOWNS ARE GONNA BE A LOT HIGHER OF AN ECONOMIC PRICE THAN THERE WOULD BE BE, IF IT, YOU KNOW, THEN SAVING $2 A SQUARE FOOT TO INSTALL SPRINKLER SYSTEM, OR EVEN IN A RETROFIT OF EXISTING BUILDING $5 SQUARE FOOT, THAT PRICE IS MINIMAL COMPARED TO LOSING SOMEONE'S LIFE IN A FIRE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO I HAVE CAUTION AGAINST CHANGING FROM ANY OF THESE OPTIONS.
WE CAN ALWAYS ADD ADDITIONAL AMENDMENTS, UH, IF WE WANT TO, BUT THE WHOLE POINT OF THE COG IS TO KEEP UNIFORM UNIFORM MORE OR LESS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTIES THAT THEY REPRESENT.
AND, UH, WE CAN ALWAYS ADD ADDITIONAL ONES AND LOOK AT THE, OUR AMENDMENTS.
AND MAYBE WE, THOSE ARE SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT, BUT OUR PRECAUTION AGAINST CHANGING IT TOO RAPIDLY, BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD HURT DEVELOPMENT WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THIS UNIFORMITY AND DEVELOPERS COME INTO GARLAND AND HAVING TO LEARN OUR CODE AND IT'S DIFFERENT THAN ALL OF THE SURROUNDING AREAS.
UM, BUT I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING, UM, MORE OF WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE, UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER DISCUSSION.
WE'LL WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO THIS ITEM ON THE NEXT AGENDA.
NOW CONSIDERING AMENDING THE GDC TO PROHIBIT AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESS FROM UTILIZING OFFSITE PARKING IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.
UH, CITY ATTORNEY HAS THIS ONE ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED IN, THAT'S GONNA BE GOING TO WORK SESSION IN TWO WEEKS.
WE WILL MOVE PAST THAT ITEM THEN AND MOVE TO ITEM TWO C AMENDING SCREENING REQUIREMENTS NEXT TO COMMERCIAL USES OR ARTERIAL ROADWAYS.
THANK YOU SIR, FOR BEING HERE.
MR. CHAIR, MAY I INVITE COUNCIL MEMBER LUCK TO, TO JOIN US? WELCOME THE CO-SPONSOR ON THIS, UM, REFERRAL.
UM, I CAN, IF YOU'D LIKE, I CAN START WITH JUST, UM, GOING, JUST GIVING A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF OUR CURRENT REQUIREMENTS FOR SCREENING AS IT RELATES TO BOTH, UM, SCREENING BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL AND THEN ALSO, UH, THOROUGHFARE SCREENING FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
SO I'LL START WITH, UH, SECTION 4.39, THIS REGARDING PERIMETER SCREENING BETWEEN, UH, NON RESIDENTIAL MULTIFAMILY SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF THERE'S A COMMERCIAL OR MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT, THESE ARE THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS THEY HAVE TO ADHERE TO IF THEY ARE ADJACENT TO A SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO IN SHORT, THEY HAVE THREE OPTIONS.
UM, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE FOR, UM, PRIMARILY NEW DEVELOPMENT, UM, THE COMMERCIAL OR MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT TO SCREEN AGAINST THE SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT MAY, UM, UH, CHOOSE OPTION ONE, WHICH SEEMS TO BE THE MOST PREVALENT MOST COMMON, WHICH IS THE MASONRY WALL BRICK OR STONEWALL, UM, MINIMUM SIX FEET, MAXIMUM EIGHT FEET.
THERE'S SOME TECHNICAL STANDARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT AND, UM, KIND OF WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE LOCATED.
BUT, UM, UH, IN ADDITION TO THAT ONE LARGE CANOPY TREE, UH, FOR EVERY 25 LINEAR FEET, IN ADDITION TO THAT, ON THE DEVELOPERS, ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE, THE PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT SIDE, UM, UH, AGAIN, BRICK OR STONE, ALTHOUGH THERE IS A, UM, A CARVE OUT OF POTENTIALLY FOR COLOR INTRINSIC STUCCO OR HIGHLY ARTICULATED, UH, SPLIT FACE MASONRY.
UM, OPTION TWO IS AN ORNAMENTAL METAL FENCE, UH, WITH LANDSCAPING.
SO MINIMUM FIVE FOOT TALL ORNAMENTAL METAL FENCE WITH MASONRY COLUMNS BASED, UM, EVERY, UH, 50 FEET.
UM, AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, A CONTINUOUS ROW OF EVERGREEN HIGH LEVEL, UH, HIGH LEVEL SHRUBS TO HELP KIND OF PROVIDE THAT TRUE SCREENING.
UM, AND THEN OPTION THREE IS AN EARTH AND BEM, I HAVE NOT SEEN, UM, ANY DEVELOPERS OPT FOR THIS ONE.
UM, BUT IT'S THERE, IT'S IN THE GDC AND EARTH AND BERM.
SO KIND OF A RAISED, UM, RAISED
THAT'S, THAT'S A GREAT WAY TO PUT IT
UM, SO THAT, THAT IS OPTION THREE.
UM, THERE ALSO IS A SUBSECTION B FOR ALTERNATIVE SCREENING OPTIONS THAT THEY MAY, UH, A DEVELOPER MAY REQUEST THROUGH AN ADMINISTRATIVE ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE IF THEY HAVE ANOTHER, UM, OPTION IN MIND.
UM, HAVEN'T SEEN TOO MANY OF THESE, BUT ONE EXAMPLE THAT DOES COME TO MIND IS THERE WAS ALREADY A VERY DENSE ROW OF TREES SCREENING, A COMMERCIAL ZONE, UM, AT TRACT LAND FROM A NEARBY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
THERE WAS ALSO AN ALLEY AND THEIR FENCES ON THE OTHER SIDE.
[00:40:01]
MAINTAIN THAT, THAT DENSE, UM, LEVEL OF TREES VERSUS, UM, REMOVING THE TREES AND THEN INSTALLING A FENCE, WHICH ACTUALLY WOULD'VE BEEN LESS SCREENING AT THE END OF THE DAY.UM, SO THAT, THAT IS, UM, COMMERCIAL VERSUS RESIDENTIAL SCREENING, UM, REGARDING PERIMETER SCREENING.
IF I, IF I'M GOT THIS RIGHT, IF I'M IN THE RIGHT SECTION, THANK YOU.
UH, PERIMETER SCREENING BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND THOROUGH AFFAIRS.
THIS IS, UM, AS IT DEFINES RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT'S REGARDING SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS, UM, THAT ARE ADJACENT TO TYPE D OR LARGER THOROUGHFARES THAT ARE, THAT THIS IS PER THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN, HAS EACH ROADWAY DESIGNATED, UH, THERE ARE TWO OPTIONS.
ONE IS THE, UM, BREAKER STONE MASONRY WALL.
UM, IT HAS SOME PARTICULAR, UM, LOCATION REQUIREMENTS HAS TO BE IN A MINIMUM EIGHT FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER AND FOR THE HOA TO MAINTAIN.
UM, BUT, UM, MASONRY WALL IS, IS ONE OPTION, UM, AND, UH, BELIEVE THIS LAND YEAH, LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, OPTION TWO IS THE ORNAMENTAL METAL FENCE.
UM, SIMILAR TO THE SECTION WE JUST LOOKED AT IN 4.39.
UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT LARGE CANOPY TREES REQUIRED MINIMUM 50 FOOT CENTERS.
UM, IT INDICATES, ALTHOUGH IT COULD BE CLEAR, UM, IT, IT MENTIONS THE SHRUB, UM, LOCATIONS, UM, BUT OR THAT IT MUST BE IN A FIVE FOOT WIDE LANDSCAPE BUFFER VERSUS EIGHT FEET, BUT IT INDICATES, UM, AS IT REFERS TO SECTION 4.39, THAT IT SHOULD HAVE THE, UM, SAME, UM, KIND OF EVERGREEN HIGH LEVEL SHRUB REQUIREMENTS IN, IN, IN THIS AS WELL TO HELP PROVIDE THAT SCREEN.
IT COULD BE A LITTLE CLEAR IN MY OPINION, BUT, UM, BUT THAT IS AN OPTION AS WELL.
UM, THERE IS A, A B THAT I ADMIT IT OMITTED, BUT IF WE ARE, IF THE DIRECTION OF THE COMMITTEE IS TO, UM, AMEND THE, THESE SECTIONS OF THE GDC, THERE'S SOME CLEANUP NEED IN SUBSECTION B, IT SEEMS TO REPEAT SECTION 4.39, BUT THEN, UH, FOR SOME REASON, UM, UH, CONTRADICTS THE TREE REQUIREMENT.
SO OPPORTUNITY FOR SOME CLEANUP THERE.
UM, BUT WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, OH, JUST, I JUST HASTILY PULLED THIS, THIS ISN'T THE GREATEST EXAMPLE, BUT JUST, I KNOW EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT AN ORNAMENTAL METAL FENCE LOOK LIKE LOOKS LIKE, BUT THIS IS A, AN EXAMPLE OF A FIVE FOOT METAL ORNAMENTAL FENCE WITH SOME TREES AND LANDSCAPING, WHATNOT, OF COURSE, THAT ISN'T A MULTI THAT'S A MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENT IN THE BACKGROUND.
UM, BUT THIS IS A PERIMETER ROADWAY.
SO JUST A KIND OF VERY GENERAL EXAMPLE OF WHAT THAT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE.
UH, BUT WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'LL OPEN UP TO ANY DISCUSSION QUESTIONS, ANY QUESTIONS? YES.
UM, AND THANK YOU WELL FOR THAT.
UM, AND I THINK YOU'RE ALREADY AWARE ONE OF THE, ONE OF OUR DEVELOPERS IN GARLAND HAD COME TO US, UM, ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, UM, UPSET ABOUT THE, THE GC, I GUESS THIS CAME IN THE ORNAMENTAL FENCE OPTION CAME IN.
I I'M ASSUMING WITH THE 2015 GDC, I BELIEVE IT DID, I MAY HAVE TO DO A LITTLE HOMEWORK.
UM, BUT I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, OF COURSE THERE'S PROS AND CONS TO, YOU KNOW, THE MASONRY ORNAMENTAL FENCE.
I THINK ONE OF WHICH THIS COMMITTEE IN THE PAST MAY HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT MAKEUP OF THE COMMITTEE, BUT HAS TALKED ABOUT MASONRY WALLS, CITYWIDE WE'VE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, THE MAINTENANCE OF THOSE.
AND, UM, THE CONCERN OF COURSE, WAS THE, UM, UH, SOME OF THE MASONRY WALLS KIND OF FALLING APART IN SOME CASES, HOA CAN'T AFFORD TO MAINTAIN IT.
SO, AS I UNDERSTAND, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I BREED TO STAY UP HERE WITH ME IS, UH, AS I UNDERSTAND, THERE'S, UM, MORE CHALLENGES AND DIFFICULTIES IN THE LONG RUN, MAINTAINING MASONRY WALLS.
SO IT, THE ORNAMENTAL METAL FENCE KIND OF OFFERS A, AN ALTERNATIVE TO THAT THAT MAY BE PERHAPS MORE DURABLE.
UM, OF COURSE IT, IT CAN LOOK VERY ATTRACTIVE AS WELL, AND, AND, UM, STILL ACHIEVE SCREENING IF DONE CORRECTLY AND IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT, OF COURSE.
SO, UM, I, I MAY HAVE TO DO A LITTLE MORE HOMEWORK TO SEE IF THAT EXISTED PRIOR TO THE GDC, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT WORTH YOU SPENDING YOUR TIME ON.
I WAS, I WAS MAKING THAT ASSUMPTION.
IT, IT PROBABLY DOESN'T MATTER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, THE, THE MAIN OBJECTION.
AND THIS CAME UP WITH THE CREEK VALLEY, UM, DEVELOPMENT IN MY DISTRICT, WHICH IS AT COUNTRY CLUB IN CENTERVILLE.
AND THAT IS A NEW SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND THEY ARE, THEY HAVE SCREENED AGAINST THE, THE ADJACENT THOROUGHFARE WITH THE, UM, METAL ORNAMENTAL FENCING AND TREES, WHICH SOUND REALLY BIG ON THESE, BUT ARE PUNY LITTLE TREES YOU CAN SEE THROUGH.
AND THAT IS THAT LETS YOU LOOK DIRECTLY INTO THE BACK OF PEOPLE'S HOMES, LIKE RIGHT INTO THE LIVING ROOM WHERE THEY'RE WATCHING TV, BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THROUGH IT.
AND, UM, IT LOOKS TRASHY AND BECAUSE IT'S AN HOA, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWING PRIVACY FENCING.
SO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE CAN'T EVEN PROTECT THEMSELVES BY PUTTING UP A PRIVACY SCREEN.
UM, THE ROAD NOISE IS AN ISSUE.
SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF REASONS.
AND I, I, I AM SYMPATHETIC WITH THE FACT THAT
[00:45:01]
MASONRY WALLS FALL DOWN.WE'VE GOT HORRIBLE CLAY SOIL HERE, BUT, UM, THE COMBINATION OF AN ORNAMENTAL METAL FENCE WITH OUR CURRENT SHRUBBERY REQUIREMENTS, IT'S NOT MAKING MUCH OF A SCREEN AT LEAST FOR YEARS WHEN IT'S PLANTED.
SO I'M, I'M NOT SURE WHAT ELSE WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT.
BUT THE, UM, THE DEVELOPER'S REQUEST WAS THAT WE JUST MAKE IT UNIFORMLY A BRICK OR STONE MASONRY WALL ON THE SECTIONS THAT ARE DIRECTLY, UM, ALONG THOROUGH AFFAIRS.
SO IF, IF IT'S NOT ALONG A THOROUGHFARE OR THEN THE, THE ORNAMENTAL FENCING I THINK IS QUITE NICE.
UM, BUT I AM TAKING, TAKING THIS INTO CONSIDERATION AND, AND, UM, HAVING DRIVEN BY SEVERAL LIKE THAT, THAT ARE NOW SEVERAL YEARS OLD AND YOU CAN STILL SEE STRAIGHT THROUGH, INTO PEOPLE'S HOUSES.
AND THE, THE DEVELOPER WHO HAS SPENT, UH, MANY, MANY, MANY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN OUR CITY WAS QUITE QUITE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT'S NOT A GOOD LOOK FOR OUR CITY.
SO, UM, THE OTHER, THE OTHER CONCERN IS THE SCREENING BETWEEN COMMERCIAL USES AND RESIDENTIAL.
SO, UM, AND THAT WAS A, A RECENT CONCERN THAT AROSE IN DISTRICT FIVE.
SO, UM, MR. CHAIR, AT WHATEVER POINT THE COMMITTEE HAS DONE, UM, WITH COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, I THINK, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER LUCK WOULD, MIGHT BE ABLE TO SHED LIGHT ON THAT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I DON'T RIGHT NOW? NO.
I'M TRYING TO LOOK AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTERVILLE AND COUNCIL, NOT TOO LONG AGO.
I HADN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.
UM, NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
I HAVEN'T, I HAVEN'T DONE ANY RESEARCH ON THIS AT ALL.
I, I HONESTLY CAME, CAME INTO THIS, NOT KNOWING WHAT THIS WAS ABOUT.
UM, SO RIGHT NOW I, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
UM, I WAS CONTACTED BY A RESIDENT IN DISTRICT FIVE.
THERE WAS A CINDER BLOCK WALL LEANING CODE CAME AND SAID, YOU NEED TO REPLACE THE WALL WITH THE COMMERCIAL ENTITY THERE.
AND THE RESIDENTS WERE UPSET THAT THE WALL WAS BEING REPLACED BY THE ROT IRON FENCE, WHICH WOULD DECREASE THEIR PRIVACY, UM, NOISE REDUCTION.
AND, UM, AND THEY WERE REALLY MOST OF ALL AFRAID OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH THE DRAINAGE IN THAT AREA BECAUSE THERE'S CONSIDERABLE FLOODING DURING HIGH, UH, HIGH RAIN EVENTS.
UM, SO REALLY WHAT I WANTED TO ADDRESS WAS IF A MASONRY WALL IS TO COME DOWN, THAT IT BE REPLACED WITH A MASONRY WALL, LIKE A LIKE WALL OF THE SAME MATERIAL, RATHER THAN A DIFFERENT MATERIAL, WHICH IS WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW.
UM, AND THEN I, ESPECIALLY ON THOSE ARTERIAL ROADS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SEE INTO PEOPLE'S HOMES, THAT'S ALSO A CONCERN AS WELL, PRIVACY, BUT MOSTLY, UM, IF THERE'S A WALL COMING DOWN THAT IT BE REPLACED WITH THE SAME MATERIAL AS BEFORE.
SO I, I CAN, I MEAN, I'LL ADD TO THAT.
SO THE INFORMATION WELL IS GIVEN YOU IS REALLY FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT.
SO THERE ARE PROVISIONS FOR, UM, PARTIAL AND FULL REPLACEMENT IN, IN THE GDC AS WELL, WHERE THAT'S WHERE THESE LIMITATIONS COME IN IN ESSENCE, UM, THERE'S A PROVISION THAT TRIGGERS, UM, COMPLIANCE WITH THE FULL SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
IF YOU ARE REPLACING, UM, IT'S EITHER 50% OR MORE, OR MORE THAN 50%, BUT YOU GET THE IDEA OF A, OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF A STRUCTURE, WHICH IS PRETTY GENERIC.
AND I DON'T EVEN THINK IT WAS INTENDED REALLY TO SPEAK TO SCREENING.
UM, AND THEN IT, IT, IT GOES ON TO SAY, YOU KNOW, HERE'S WHAT YOU, IF YOU DON'T REACH THAT THRESHOLD, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO COME INTO FULL COMPLIANCE OR EVEN PARTIAL COMPLIANCE, HONESTLY.
SO THAT WOULD BE IN THE AREA THAT WOULD NEED TO BE TWEAKED FOR THESE EXISTING ACTUALLY SITUATIONS.
PARTIAL AND FULL MM-HMM
SO, UM, IT'S JUST, UM, IT, IT'S NOT NEW DEVELOPMENT IS CLEAR ALMOST IN SOME WAYS, ALTHOUGH WHEN YOU GET TO THIS SECTION, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT, IT WASN'T THOUGHT THROUGH, IT JUST NEEDS TO BE MODIFIED.
IF THAT'S THE, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE TO DO, THAT'S THE DIRECTION YOU'D LIKE TO GO, JUST TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ALL THAT TIDY.
[00:50:01]
ON IN BOTH YOUR CASE AND YOUR CASE AS WELL ABOUT COUNSELING MOORE SAID A DEVELOPER CAME IN COMPLAIN THAT THEY PUT IN A ROD IRON FENCE, BUT THEY WANTED TO PUT IN A SPACE FENCE.IT WASN'T THE DEVELOPER WHO WAS DEVELOPING THAT THIS WAS ANOTHER GARLAND DEVELOPER WHO LIVED NEARBY, HAD A NEW DEVELOPMENT BY A DIFFERENT DEVELOPER GOING IN DOWN THE STREET AND THEN NAMED A BUNCH OF DEVELOPMENTS AROUND THE CITY WHERE WE HAD IN THE LAST FIVE OR 10 YEARS ALLOWED RAW IRON MM-HMM
SO IT WAS HE, IF IT WAS HIS DEVELOPMENT AT THAT, WOULD'VE BEEN A DIFF EASY, EASY, EASY, IT'S EASY TO SPEND SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY.
IN MY CASE, THE CINDER BLOCK WALL IS LEANING AND THE, THE, THE COMMERCIAL OWNER DOES NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO REBUILD WITH A CINDER BLOCK, MASONRY WALL MM-HMM
SO THEY CHOSE TO GO WITH A ROD IRON FENCE MM-HMM
LARGE IS, IS IT SIX FEET OR EIGHT FEET? THE IT'S IT'S DEPENDING ON WHICH SIDE YOU MEASURE FROM RIGHT.
IT'S BETWEEN LIKE FIVE AND SIX FEET TALL.
SO WE HAVE CINDER BLOCK WALL, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE ROD IRON FENCING AND THEN CINDER BLOCK WALL.
SO THEY'RE NOT REPLACING SEPARATE PROPERTIES THEN THAT HAVE NO ONE PROPERTY.
UM, SO WE HAVE ONE COMMERCIAL OWNER WHO HAS A CINDER BLOCK WALL.
THIS COMMERCIAL OWNER IS DOING A PARTIAL, UM, REPLACEMENT OF THE WALL.
SO THEY HAVE PART CINDER BLOCK TO WHERE IT'S FAILING, AND THEN THE AREAS THAT'S FAILING, THEY'RE PUTTING UP A ROD IRON FENCE.
AND THEN THERE'S CINDER BLOCK WALL SURROUNDING THE REST OF THE PERIMETER OF THEIR PROPERTY.
SO IT'S KIND OF PIECEMEAL MM-HMM
AND, UM, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE RESIDENTS ARE QUITE UPSET ABOUT IT AGAIN, EASY TO SPEND OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY ON THAT.
BUT, BUT IT IS, YEAH, THAT, THAT'S THE CONCERN.
WHAT, WHAT THE OPTIONS SOUND LIKE TO ME IS WE WANT TO CONSIDER ELIMINATING THE ROD IRON FENCE OPTION THEN IS, IS, SOUNDS LIKE THAT IS THE ISSUE IN BOTH OF THESE CASES.
UM, AGAIN, ANOTHER COMPARISON FOR THEIR CITIES.
COULD YOU THEN RESEARCH WHAT OTHER CITIES HAVE AS FAR AS THEIR SCRUTINY REQUIREMENTS WITH ROD IRON VERSUS, UH, MAINSTREAM WALLS.
I KNOW FOR INSTANCE, ROCK WALL, I'M FAMILIAR WITH THEIR CODE.
THEY REQUIRE ROCK WALLS EVERYWHERE, MASONRY.
THEY DO NOT ALLOW, UH, A ROD IRON FENCE JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THEIR NAME, BUT, UH, OTHER CITIES LOOK AT, IF YOU WOULD RESEARCH A FEW OTHER CITIES, IF YOU WOULD, AND BRING BACK TO US, THEN MAYBE THEIR REQUIREMENTS SO WE CAN COMPARE.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
UM, YES, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MENTION THAT, UM, IF, IF A, A WALL IS FAILING IN SOME PART, WHATEVER REPLACEMENT SCREENING THEY PUT UP, I FEEL AS IF IT SHOULD MATCH WHAT WAS EXISTING OR WHAT IS EXISTING CINDER BLOCKS SHOULD REALLY GO UP IF THERE'S CINDER, CINDER BLOCKS ADJACENT TO IT, IN MY OPINION.
UM, AND I, I KNOW THAT THAT'S THE QUESTION THEN FOR BUILDING CODE CINDER BLOCK WALLS ALLOWED, I KNOW THAT IS THAT FIT OUR REGULATION FOR OUR MASONRY WALL.
I KNOW THERE'S SOME, IT HAS A, SOME DIFFERENT SECTION FOR BRICK OR STONE IS CINDER BLOCK A STONE OR A BRICK HAS THE, HOW ARTICULATE SUCH AS SPLIT FACED SPLIT FACED.
THAT'S NOT IN THIS CASE, I WOULD SAY IT WOULD NOT COMPLY RIGHT.
THE CURRENT BRICK, BECAUSE IT'S TRULY UNDER BLOCK AND MM-HMM
A, A QUICK ISSUE THAT MIGHT POP UP WITH YOUR IDEA OF REPLACING A, A, HAVING A REPLACEMENT WALL MADE OF THE SAME MATERIAL OR SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME MATERIAL AS ONE THAT'S FOLLOWING.
THAT MIGHT BE OKAY IF WE DO NOT HAVE RE PROVISION THAT ALLOWS FOR, UM, ROD IRON FENCING.
AND HERE'S WHY IS NOW YOU COULD, YOU COULD HAVE A, I GUESS A FACT CASE WHERE YOU HAVE TO ARTICULATE THE FACTS.
WE HAVE TO HAVE A RATIONAL BASIS, AND IT'S HARD TO COME UP WITH A RATIONAL BASIS.
WHY WE WILL ALLOW SOMEONE TO HAVE A ROD IRON FENCE UNDER CODE, UNLESS THEY'VE ALREADY BUILT A, A STONE FENCE.
IT'S HARD TO ARTICULATE WHAT THAT RATIONAL BASIS WOULD BE.
IT COULD BE A SITUATION WHERE WHATEVER THE USE MAY BE.
IT'S THE, THE NEIGHBORS HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS OF LOUD NOISE, AND IT'S NOT DOING A SUFFICIENT JOB OF ACTUALLY SCREENING THE SOUND OR BLOCKING THE SOUND.
THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE A RATIONAL BASIS THERE, BUT IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, JUST BECAUSE THEY BUILT A STONEWALL, WHEN THEY COULD HAVE BUILT A ROD IRON WALL DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE CITY WOULD GET TO RESTRICT THEM.
THAT'D BE THE ONLY CAVEAT THERE.
SO IT WOULD BE MORE OF A FACT SPECIFIC CASE TO WHERE THE COUNCIL WOULD HAVE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT BECAUSE OF, UM, UM, PAST HISTORY, RECENT PAST HISTORY OF NOISE COMPLAINTS, WE DON'T FEEL LIKE A ROD IRON FENCE WOULD BE APPROPRIATE HERE.
[00:55:01]
WE WOULD WANT THEM TO REPLACE IT WITH THE, SO IT IT'D BE DIFFICULT TO PUT IN LAWS ON THE SCENE.JUST, JUST SO WE'RE ALL ON THE, JUST SO WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT TO DRAFT.
WAIT, BRIAN, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU THEN.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO SAY YOU MUST REPLACE, LIKE WOULD LIKE, RIGHT.
IF NOT NECESSARILY, IT'S ONLY IF YOU ALLOW A LESSER STANDARD SOMEWHERE ELSE ON THE CODE, MM-HMM
YOU CAN JUST SAY, IF YOU GOTTA REPLACE IT, YOU HAVE TO REPLACE IT WITH, WITH STONE, BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO REMOVE THAT.
IT'S HARD TO HAVE A RATIONAL BASIS.
IF YOU'RE BUILDING IT NEW, BUT SINCE YOU'RE REPLACING IT, WE'RE NOT GONNA RELY.
YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A RATIONAL BASIS FOR DOING THAT.
WELL, ISN'T THE RATIONALITY IN, IN, IN ENVISION GARLAND.
I MEAN, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE PUTTING OUR BEST, BEST FACE FORWARD.
SO THE RATIONALITY IS RIGHT THERE.
I MEAN, IT'S WELL, THAT'S SUBJECTIVE SOUNDS.
I MEAN, BUT YOU'RE BRICK WALL.
I MIGHT THINK THAT LOOKS HORRIBLE.
AND MY BROAD IRON FENCE IS BEAUTIFUL.
IT HAS LANDSCAPING IN FRONT OF IT.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REPLACING, LIKE WOULD LIKE, WELL, THE PROBLEM WITH, WITH, WITH THAT ANALOGY WOULD BE THAT ENVISION GARLAND WAS PASSED IN 2012 OR 2013.
UM, AND SINCE THAT TIME COUNCIL HAS PUT IN A PROVISION, HAS LEAST RE ADOPTED A PROVISION IF IT WAS AN ORDER REQUIRED.
THAT SAID, WE THINK THAT ROD IRON FENCES ARE ALLOWED UNDER THE ENVISIONED GARLAND.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THEN IT'S HARD TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN A REPLACEMENT AND A NEW WALL.
YOU'LL ALLOW IF IT'S NEW TO BE ROD IRON, BUT YOU WON'T ALLOW IT A REPLACEMENT TO BE ROD IRON.
NOW, IF YOU HAVE A RATIONAL BASIS FOR IT, BECAUSE THIS PARTICULAR USE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL IS LOUD AND NEIGHBORS HAVE COMPLAINED.
UM, THEN THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD REASON TO MAKE THEM PUT UP A ROD IRON.
JUST PUTTING THAT INTO WORDS WILL BE DIFFICULT, BUT WE CAN FIGURE IT OUT.
I'LL THINK ABOUT IT A LITTLE MORE.
MA'AM UM, UM, ONE, ONE MORE QUESTION.
SO IF NOT FOR YOU, YOU'RE GOOD.
BUT I, I MAY CHANGE MY MIND IN A MOMENT JUST TO WATCH YOU WALK BACK AND FORTH.
UM, IF WE WERE TO DO WAY AND 4.39 WITH, WITH BOTH OPTIONS, TWO AND THREE, SINCE NOBODY'S USING THREE ANYWAY, JUST MAKE, JUST MAKE IT THAT'S WHAT WE REQUIRE THIS.
UM, SO THIS IS PERIMETER SCREENING BETWEEN NON RESIDENTIAL MULTI-FAMILY AND SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS.
UM, WOULD, WOULD THIS BE IT'S PERIMETER SCREENING? WOULD THIS NOT ALLOW US TO HA TO ALLOW ROD IRON SCREENING OFF OF, UM, IN OTHER AREAS OR WOULD THIS SAY THEY HAVE TO BUILD MASONRY WALLS AROUND ALL FOUR? LIKE A, A NEW DEVELOP, A NEW SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT? LET'S SAY LIKE, LIKE CREEK VALLEY.
ARE WE SAYING, BECAUSE WHAT I, I DON'T MIND THE ROD IRON AND EVERYTHING AS IF IT'S NOT THE SCREEN BETWEEN, UM, RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS, MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS OR DIRECTLY SCREENING OFF OF ARTERIALS.
I THINK ROD IRON LOOKS ATTRACTIVE, BUT THE WAY THIS IS, I JUST WANNA, I DON'T WANNA TAKE AWAY AN OPTION FOR OTHER ATTRACTIVE SCREENING, BUT I WOULD WANT, I WOULD WANT MASONRY TO BE SCREENING ON ARTERIALS.
THIS IS BETWEEN SO YEAH, SO I'M, I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE, THE WAY THAT THAT'S WORDED.
IF WE READ WHAT WAS THE WORD IN OTHER WORDS, POTENTIALLY DRAFT IT.
SO WE'RE ONLY THE PORTIONS WHERE THE COMMERCIAL OR MULTIFAMILY ARE ADJACENT TO THE SINGLE FAMILY WOULD HAVE TO DO THE MASONRY WALL AND THEN OTHER PORTIONS OR ALONG ARTERIALS.
SO, SO LEAVE THAT, LEAVE THE ORNAMENTAL METAL FENCE AS, AS OPTIONS, CUZ IT, IT CAN BE QUITE ATTRACTIVE IN APPROPRIATE PLACES.
SO I WOULDN'T WANNA THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER AND SAY, WELL, JUST COMPLETELY KILL IT, BUT I WOULD WANT, I WOULD WANT IT TO SEE IT CRAFTED, UM, TO PUT, PUT SOLID WALLS WHERE WE WANT SOLID WALLS TO GO.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF, IF IN THE WRITING OF THIS, IF YOU WERE READING IT DIFFERENTLY THAN I WAS SO, ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? THIS ITEM WE'VE GIVEN YOU SOME HOMEWORK FOR THE NEXT, UH, NEXT MEETING AND A COUPLE OF OTHER ITEMS, UH, WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR, WHAT YOU FIND OUT IN RING BANK, YOUR PRESENTATIONS AT THAT TIME.
THAT WAS THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA.
THEN FOR THE SEPTEMBER 19TH, 22, 20 22 MEETING OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICE COMMITTEE, WE ARE ADJOURNED.