* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. HELLO, AND WELCOME TO [00:00:01] THE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE [Transportation Infrastructure Mobility Committee Meeting on November 15, 2022.] AND MOBILITY COMMITTEE MEETING OF THE GARLAND CITY COUNCIL FOR NOVEMBER 15TH, 2022. I'M MYSELF, DYLAN HEDRICK, CHAIRMAN. WITH ME, I HAVE COUNCILMAN ROBERT BERA AND COUNCILMAN JEFF BASS. THE FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS TO PROVE THE MINUTES OF THE 20 SEPTEMBER 20TH, 2022 MEETING. I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL RIGHT. MINUTES ARE APPROVE. FIRST ITEM FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION IS PUBLIC COMMENT. ALWAYS INVITE THE PUBLIC TO COME, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY PUBLIC MEMBERS HERE TODAY. ANYBODY. ALWAYS ENCOURAGE THEM TO COME UP AND, AND TALK TO US IF THEY WISH. NEXT ITEM ON AGENDA. ITEM THREE IS DISCUSS REQUIRING PAYMENT FOR USE OF ELECTRIC CHARGING STATIONS. ALL RIGHT, MR. CHAIRMAN AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS, UH, WE HAVE LOOKED INTO THE NUMBER OF CHARGING STATIONS YOU HAVE, AND AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, WE'VE ACTUALLY, THIS STARTED WITH ONLY A COUPLE OF THEM, I DON'T KNOW, MANY YEARS AGO, 15 PLUS YEARS AGO. IT GOES WAY BACK. BUT THEN OVER THE YEARS WE HAD ADDED SOME ADDITIONAL, I BELIEVE WE HAVE 14 DIFFERENT LOCATIONS THAT HAVE CHARGING STATIONS THAT, THAT WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR. UH, WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT WE'VE COMPILED THE COST AND WE LOOK AT IT, AND IT VARIES SLIGHTLY FROM YEAR TO YEAR. WHEN WE LOOK AT A THREE YEAR AVERAGE, THE AVERAGE COST OF THE WHOLE PROGRAM IS AROUND 15 TO $20,000. THAT INCLUDES THE MAINTENANCE, UH, THROUGH THE VENDOR, ANY REPAIRS, AND OF COURSE, THE CHARGES TO WHOEVER IS CHARGING THEIR VEHICLES. UH, AT THE STATIONS, UH, WE HAVE FOUND THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE CHARGING MORE THAN 90%, UH, IS CITIZENS. WE DO HAVE SOME STAFF VEHICLES, SOME ELECTRIC VEHICLES OUT THERE THAT STAFF WILL CHARGE UP, BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE CHARGES THAT ARE COMING FROM THESE 14 STATIONS ARE FROM OUR RESIDENTS. UM, LOOKING AT THE COST, UH, WE'VE LOOKED AT WHAT SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES ARE DOING. SOME CITIES DO CHARGE CITIZENS, OTHER CITIZEN, OTHER CITIES DO NOT. WE HAVE LOOKED TO SEE IF WE DO THAT, UH, A NET BREAK, EVEN IF A GOAL WOULD BE TO COVER THE COST OF THE PROGRAM, WE COULD LOOK AT 49 CENTS PER KILOWATT. THAT WOULD, WE ESTIMATE WOULD GET US TO A BREAK EVEN OVER, OVER TIME ON AN, ON AN AVERAGE BASIS OVER THE YEARS. UH, OF COURSE YOU COULD GO UP HIGHER THAN THAT IF YOU WANTED TO FROM A REVENUE STANDPOINT, BUT IT'S, IT'S STILL, EVEN THOUGH 90% PLUS IS RESIDENTS, IT'S STILL SMALL USAGE. UH, A COUPLE OF THE LOCATIONS HAVE SOME MORE CHARGES THAN SOME OF THE OTHER LOCATIONS. UM, 49 CENTS KILO UP FOR THOSE CITIES THAT DO CHARGE, THAT IS A NORMAL RATE THAT IS OUT THERE FOR OTHER CITIES THAT ARE, THAT ARE CHARGING FOR THAT. SO, UM, THAT'S KIND OF THE HIGH LEVEL OF WHAT WE'VE FOUND. AND OF COURSE, BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE COUNCIL. HOW MANY, HOW MANY OF THIS WE DON'T CHARGE? DO WE, WE DO NOT CHARGE THE CITIZENS. NOW WE'RE COVERING THE COST, AND OF COURSE FOR OUR CITY VEHICLES, WE COVER THAT, BUT WE'RE NOT CHARGING THEM RIGHT NOW. I, I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD BE PAYING FOR IT. OKAY. IF, IF, UH, PEOPLE ARE GONNA USE IT, I THINK THEY SHOULD PAY FOR IT. I MEAN, WE, WE GOT, THIS HAS BEEN GOING LONG FOR A LONG TIME AND WE DON'T DO THAT TO THE GASOLINE CARS, YOU KNOW, SO I'M IN FAVOR OF RAISING TO CHARGE THEM BECAUSE I'M BASS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MITCH. YES. YOU MENTIONED THERE ARE 14 LOCATIONS. AND HOW MANY CHARGING OF PORTS OR SPOTS ARE THERE? TYPICALLY THERE'S TWO AT EACH LOCATION. THERE MAY BE A COUPLE OF LOCATIONS THAT HAVE MORE THAN THAT, BUT TYPICALLY THERE'S TWO. SO IN TOTAL WE HAVE ABOUT 30. YEAH. DO YOU KNOW THE EXACT, WE HAVE 14 CHARGING STATIONS. THE LOCATIONS. LET'S SEE. OH, OKAY. I GOT THAT. THERE'S NINE LOCATIONS. NINE LOCATIONS. 14 TOTAL CHARGING. OH, THERE'S 14 TOTAL PLUGS. OKAY. OKAY. NINE LOCATIONS. 14 IS SPOT. OKAY. AND THEN, UM, OKAY, SO I GUESS YOU MENTIONED ABOUT 49 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR. WOULD, UM, BRING US TO BREAK EVEN ON THE PROGRAM? YES. NOW, AS WE EXPAND, IS THERE GOING TO BE, UM, IS, IS THAT, DOES THAT, OKAY. I'M TRYING TO THINK HERE. YOU KNOW, AS WE EXPAND, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT THE OPPOSITE OF DIMINISHING RETURNS IS, BUT UM, YOU KNOW, UM, WILL THOSE COSTS PER KILOWATT HOUR FOR US TO ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM GO DOWN AS WE EXPAND? RIGHT NOW, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY CURRENT PLANS TO ADD ADDITIONAL STATIONS, [00:05:02] CHARGING STATIONS. IF WE DID, PART OF THAT WOULD JUST DEPEND ON THE LOCATION AND THE USAGE. I MEAN, WE'RE TAKING AN AVERAGE FROM ALL NINE LOCATIONS TO 14 CHARGING, AND SOME OF THEM HAVE VERY MINIMAL USAGE. THERE'S A FEW THAT HAVE MORE USAGE. SO THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS, IT DEPENDS. AND WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION IF IT STILL STAYED THE SAME AVERAGE RATE AND WE RECOUPED AT THAT LOCATION, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE ENOUGH CHARGES ON THERE, WE COULD COVER THE COST THERE. SO, BUT THE 49 CENTS PER KILOWATT IS, AND AGAIN, IT'S AN AVERAGE COST OVER A THREE YEAR PERIOD, BUT THAT, THAT WILL COVER THE COST OF THE PROGRAM AS IT STANDS. NOW, IF WE ADDED A NEW LOCATION THAT DIDN'T HAVE VERY MANY CHARGES, WE MIGHT HAVE TO RAISE THAT RATE, YOU KNOW, BUT IF WE ADD ONE THAT HAS SOME NORMAL AMOUNTS OF CHARGING FROM THAT LOCATION, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO RAISE THE RATE. OKAY. AND THAT 49 CENTS, UM, IS THAT CONSIDERING, UM, UH, THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AND COST TO MODIFY, TO COLLECT PAYMENT AND ALL OF THAT KIND OF STUFF, IS THAT INCLUDED IN THAT 49 CENTS ALREADY? I THINK WE'VE ALREADY GOT THAT INCLUDED, RIGHT, MATT? OKAY. I, I THINK EVERYTHING THAT'S, THAT'S TURNKEY, THAT WOULD COVER EVERYTHING. OKAY. UM, YEAH, AND I'M, I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH COUNCILMAN VERA. WE DON'T, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE DO THINGS EVERY, EVERY DAY HERE THAT ARE PREFERENTIAL FOR ONE PERSON OVER ANOTHER. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, HOW SOMEONE FUELS THEIR VEHICLE SHOULD BE GIVEN PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT ONE OVER ONE OVER ANOTHER. SO I'M ALONG THE SAME THOUGHT PROCESS IS COUNCILMAN VERA THAT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE PAYING PEOPLE TO FUEL THEIR VEHICLES. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY, A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS I HAVE AS WELL. WHAT TYPE OF CHARGERS ARE THESE? ARE THESE LEVEL TWO, LEVEL ONE CHARGERS? DO WE KNOW, YOU KNOW, MATT, LEVEL TWO. LEVEL TWO CHARGERS. SO THEY CHARGE RELATIVELY QUICKLY COMPARED TO, AND DO WE HAVE DATA ON INDIVIDUAL USERS? I KNOW YOU SAID THAT IT'S CITIZENS UNION. DO WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE CITIZENS OF GARLAND OR THEY CITIZENS JUST PEOPLE WITH ELECTRIC CARS IN GENERAL? YEAH. WE DON'T KNOW ON WHO USES IT. WE WILL KNOW. WE, WE KNOW WHO OUR CITY, THE CITY CONNECTIONS ARE, AND THEN BY DEFAULT, EVERYBODY ELSE THAT'S NOT CITY WE'RE LABELING AS CITIZENS. SO HOW GRANULAR IS OUR DATA THEN? DO WE KNOW HOW LONG THEY'VE CHARGED? DO WE KNOW HOW MANY, LIKE IS THERE ONE GUY WHO USES IT ALL THE TIME AND JUST LIKE MULTIPLE USERS? OR IS THAT THERE'S, THERE ARE RED CROSS USERS AT SOME OF THE LOCATIONS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW IN PARTICULAR ON THAT, MATT, DO YOU? YEAH, THERE'S ABOUT A, OVER THE LAST THREE MONTHS THERE'S BEEN ABOUT 105 USERS AND THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE JUST LEAVING THE CAR PLUG. THEN YOU CAN TELL FROM THE HOUR USERS, I DON'T HAVE THAT DETAIL MM-HMM. , BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE USING MUCH HEAVIER THAN OTHERS AND JUST KINDA EVEN THEIR POINT. YEAH. SO THEY LEARNED TO GAME THE SYSTEM AND THEY KNOW IT'S A FREE CHARGING POINT AND OF COURSE THEY CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. SO I CERTAINLY DO THINK WE NEED TO LOOK INTO, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT TO, IF THERE'S SOME KIND OF SYSTEM THAT PERHAPS WE CAN GIVE A DISCOUNT TO GARLAND RESIDENTS, WE OWN GP AND L I WOULD HATE TO HAVE OUR CITY PROGRAM SUBSIDIZED PEOPLE FROM ELSEWHERE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY A GARDEN GARLAND CITIZEN AND WE'RE JUST SIMPLY PAYING FOR THEIR ELECTRIC VEHICLE. AND IT'S, UM, IT'S DEFINITELY A PROGRESSIVE THING WE'RE DOING WITH THE ELECTRIC VEHICLES BEING SO EXPENSIVE. IT'S THE PROGRESSIVE, IT'S NOT A RECESSIVE, UH, COST THAT WE'RE SPREADING AND BRINGING IT BACK DOWN TO THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD MORE LIKELY NEED IT THAN THOSE WHO COULD AFFORD ELECTRIC VEHICLES. SO I THINK THAT'S KIND OF THE ISSUE WE HAVE HERE. SINCE THE COST OF THOSE VEHICLES OFTENTIMES ARE 60, 70, A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS AND THEN PROVIDING FREE FUELS. THE REASON MR. GO AHEAD. THE REASON I BROUGHT THIS UP, HOBA CENTER, WE GOT TWO MM-HMM. , I SAW THIS GUY, THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT IT UP. I SAW THIS GUY HE LIVES IN, I KNOW FOR A FACT HE LIVES IN, IN RICHARDSON. HE COME OVER THERE ACROSS CHAR, PUT THE CAR THERE, THEN HE GOT IN ANOTHER CAR, LEFT LATER ON, AFTER THREE OR FOUR HOURS HE'D COME BACK, PICK UP HIS CAR AND LEFT. MM-HMM. . THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT THIS UP ABOUT THE ELECTRIC CARS, YOU KNOW, FREEBIES. DO WE HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON OTHER CITIES? I KNOW RICHARDSON HAS SEVERAL ELECTRIC CHARGERS, LIKE AT HUFF HS. THEY HAVE ONE. UH, DO WE KNOW WHAT THEIR POLICY IS AT ALL? YEAH, THERE'S A COUPLE OTHER CITIES. MATT, I KNOW DALLAS. GO AHEAD. DALLAS ISN'T CHARGING ON THEIR STATIONS AND THEY USE CHARGE POINT WE USE MM-HMM. . UM, I DIDN'T PULL ANY, ANY INFORMATION ON RICHARD. CAUSE MOST OF 'EM THAT I SEEN WERE PRIVATELY OWNED. MM-HMM. , THE CITY OF PLAN USES BLANK. THEY CHARGE 49 CENTS A ING USES ANOTHER SYSTEM CALLED BLINK AS WELL. MM-HMM. , THEY CHARGE 49 CENTS A KILOWATT. AND THEN, [00:10:01] UH, SAN ANTONIO AS WELL AS THAT 49 CENTS A KILOWATT. SO, BUT THEY'RE ON THE BLINK SYSTEM. IT'S JUST, BUT THEY, THEY ARE ALL CITY OWNED CHARGING STATIONS THAT ARE ALSO CHARGING 49 CENTS A KILOWATT. AND IT JUST HAPPENS. THAT'S OUR BREAK EVEN AS WELL. YEAH. WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE TO CHECK AND SEE IF THE SYSTEM WILL LET US, UH, DETERMINE IF THERE'S A WAY WHEN SOMEONE'S PLUGGING IN TO KNOW ARE THEY A GARLAND RESIDENT OR NOT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL. I DON'T, THAT'S HARD. THINK IT IS. NOW THEY'RE JUST GIVING US USER ID. YEAH. I KNOW WE HAVE 105 USERS, BUT THEY DON'T GIVE ME THE YEAH. OR ANYTHING. I, I WOULDN'T EXPECT IT. I JUST WALK OUT TO THE ONE IN THE PARKING LOT HERE BEFORE THE MEETING AND STARTED PLAYING WITH IT TO SEE, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT HAS ANY OF THAT. RIGHT. YEAH. AND WE'LL HAVE TO WORK WITH, IF THE, OF COURSE, I KNOW YOU GOTTA REPORT BACK TO THE FULL COUNCIL, BUT IF THE DECISION IS MADE, UH, TO DO THAT, WE'LL NEED TO WORK. YOU'LL TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME WITH THE VENDOR. IT'S NOT, WE DON'T THINK THERE'S A LOT TO IT. UH, A LITTLE BIT OF PROGRAMMING, THEY SET IT UP SO WE CAN DO THAT AND IT'LL TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO DO THAT, BUT NOT LONG. IF WE, IF WE CHARGE, SAY WE SAY 49 CENTS, IS THE VENDOR GONNA GO UP ON THE CHARGES? UH, THAT'S NOT OUR UNDERSTANDING. CAUSE REALLY THE, THE VENDOR GETTING, THEY'RE GETTING THEIR MONEY ALREADY. SO IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WHETHER WE'RE PASSING THAT COST ONTO THE, TO THE USERS, TO THE RESIDENTS WHO ARE USING IT. SO, WELL, I'M IN FAVOR OF DOING IT, BUT HOW DID WE COME TO 49 CENTS YOU? WELL, WE LOOKED AT TWO THINGS. WE LOOKED AT WHAT SOME OF THESE OTHER CITIES WERE DOING AS AN AVERAGE RATE, BUT WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE TOTAL VOLUME OF USAGE AND THEN WE BACKED INTO THAT. AND ACTUALLY THE 49 CENTS GETS US TO WHERE WE COVER THE COST OF THE PROGRAM. THAT 15 TO 20,000 A YEAR, I MEAN, IT'S CLOSER TO 15, ALTHOUGH IN A THREE YEAR, IT'S NOT GONNA BE EXACTLY 15,000 EVERY YEAR. UH, BUT THAT'S THE CHARGE, THE RATE WE WOULD NEED TO CHARGE TO COVER THAT COST BASED ON THE CURRENT USAGE BY THE CITIZENS. SO HOW, HOW COME THEY DON'T, THEY DIDN'T SAY 50 CENTS? YEAH, IT'S IT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? UNUSUAL EVEN NUMBER. YEAH. I GUESS IT'S LIKE THE GAS STATIONS WHERE IT'S ALL, YOU KNOW, THE MARKETING. I WAS GONNA SAY DOLLAR 99. YEAH. IT HADN'T BEEN THAT LONG TIME. SO 2 99 WHATEVER, 3 99, WHATEVER. YEAH, THEY ALWAYS PUT THAT 99, 92, 95, YOU KNOW, ALMOST THERE. $3 . OKAY. WELL, I THINK WE'RE PRETTY MUCH IN AGREEMENT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME KIND OF CHARGE SYSTEM, CREDIT CARD BASE OR USER APP BASE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, TO CONVERT OUR, THE CHARGE. WELL, THEY, THEY, EVERYBODY HAS AN APP ON THEIR CELL PHONES AND YOU CAN PUT THE APP ON THE CELL PHONE AND, AND THEY CAN CHARGE IT. RIGHT. THAT OR CREDIT CARD OR, OR SOME KIND OF PAYMENT SYSTEM. YEAH. BE ABLE TO, THE VENDOR HAS A MECHANISM. YEAH. PUT THAT IN PLACE. SO ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ANY? NO, I WAS JUST THINKING WHEN HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE APP, I'M THINKING OF THE CHARGING STATION, HAVING A LITTLE CASHIER STANDING AT THE CHARGING STATION. NO, YOU HAVE YOU SEEN IT ON YOUR PHONE? YEAH. YEAH. THERE'S AN APP FOR EVERYTHING. YEAH. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. WE GOT IT. YEP, WE GOT IT. WELL, THAT BEING THE ONLY ITEM ON OUR JENNIFER DISCUSSION AT FIVE 15 WE'RE ADJOURN. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.