* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. ALL GOOD AFTERNOON AND [00:00:01] WELCOME TO THE [Development Services Committee on December 12, 2022.] VERY, VERY MINOR. I THINK WE'RE KEEP IT SHORT. SAY THAT REFLECTS THE CHANGES THAT WE DISCUSSED. THE TAKE MORRIS AND JEFF BAT THAT FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA WITH APPROVAL. THE MINUTES FOR THE NOVEMBER 15TH, 20 AND SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. SECOND APPROVED ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION WILL ALLOW PUBLIC COMMENT SESSION ON ANY OF OUR AGENDA ITEMS. FIRST. I DON'T SEE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC HERE. I'D ALWAYS LIKE TO HAVE THAT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA. NEXT, ITEM TWO B, WE'RE GOING TO PULL THAT ONE THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED AT OUR NEXT MEETING IN JULY, IN JANUARY. SO WE'LL MOVE ON. I HAVE TWO C REVIEW OF G C TREE MITIGATION REQUIREMENTS. HI, GOOD AFTERNOON, MARS. UM, SO IN FRONT OF YOU YOU SHOULD HAVE SOME RED LINES, UM, FOR THE, UH, TREE PRESERVATION MITIGATION ORDINANCE, UM, THAT MATT AND I WORKED ON, UH, THESE LAST FEW WEEKS. AND, UM, REALLY TO SUMMARIZE, THEY SHOULD REFLECT THE, UM, CHANGES THAT WE DISCUSSED AT THE LAST MEETING, INCLUDING, UM, OFFSITE TREE PLANTINGS. BASICALLY REMOVING THAT PROVISION. UM, THERE'S A 30% LIMITATION TO CREDIT, WHICH THE TREE CREDITS HAVE KIND OF BEEN RE RECONFIGURED, UM, KIND OF PER MATHS RECOMMENDATIONS. AND SO REALLY SHOULD REFLECT, UM, THAT DISCUSSION. DISCUSSION. NOTHING NEW WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ADDING A PROVISION REGARDING THE TAKE AREA. UM, WE WERE ACTUALLY IN A MEETING LAST WEEK WITH DALLAS COUNTY. IT GOT US THINKING ABOUT, OH, WHAT ABOUT, UM, TREES BEING CUT DOWN IN THE TAKE AREA, WHICH HAS HAPPENED. SO, UH, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT'S CAPTURED. SO, UM, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MATT, BUT THE, OF COURSE, THE DEFINITION OF TAKE AREA AND THE TAKE LINE HAVE BEEN ADDED FOR CLARITY, BUT, UM, THAT TREES ARE, UM, UH, PROTECTING THE TAKE AREA, INCLUDING, UM, UM, UH, RE EASTERN RED CEDARS. YEAH, THE UNPROTECTED ARE STILL UNPROTECTED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF EASTERN RED CEDARS, UH, MATT SAWSON BENEFITS TO HAVING THOSE WITHIN THE TAKE AREA, LONGSHORE LINES. UM, SO THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY THING NEW. BUT, UM, UH, REALLY AS FAR AS NEXT STEPS WE WOULD, UM, THESE OF COURSE ARE JUST THE RAW RED LINES, BUT WE WOULD WORK WITH THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ON A MORE FORMAL ORDINANCE AND OF COURSE THE COMMITTEE CAN REPORT IT OUT TO THE FULL COUNSEL. UM, AS A NEXT STEP. ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE COMMITTEE? I'M READING. OH, READING . I WILL SAY THAT THE AREA, UM, ADDITION MAKES COMPLETE SENSE. I DIDN'T SEE THIS SENT OUT IN ADVANCE, WAS THIS, AND I JUST MISSED IT. I, I DIDN'T SEE THIS. IT WAS, WAS NOT NO, NO. PLEASE BE PATIENT BECAUSE WE NEED TO READ IT. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. MR. CHAIR, ONE QUESTION AND YOU OF THE, UH, TAKE AREA. UM, DID I, DID I HEAR YOU SAY THAT EASTERN RED CEDAR IS INCLUDED AND PROTECTED ALONG THESE TAKE AREAS THAT YES. YES MA'AM. YEAH. SO IF, UH, AN EASTERN RED CEDAR WOULD BE CONSIDERED A CLASS TWO TREE WITHIN THE TAKE AREA WITH THAT NEW EXEMPTION THAT WE WOULD PUT IN THERE, UM, THEY HAVE VALUE ALONG THE TAKE AREA IN TERMS OF EROSION CONTROL, WILDLIFE BENEFITS, AND THAT SORT, THAT WOULD'VE VALUE THAT WE WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE PROTECTING. OKAY. SO EVEN THOUGH EASTERN RED CEDAR IS LISTED UNDER M UNPROTECTED STATE, UM, WE TURN IT INTO, WE ADDED RIGHT, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD CEASE TO BE A, AN UNPROTECTED TREE ONLY WITHIN THE TAKE AREA. AND THE REASON IS IS CUZ THAT'S A MUCH MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE AREA, UM, ALONG THAT AREA, UH, FOR BANK STABILIZATION, FOR FLOOD CONTROL FOR WILDLIFE. AND SO THAT WOULD MAKE THE ONLY TRULY UNPROTECTED TREES WITHIN THAT TAKE AREA. TRULY INVASIVE TYPE OF SPECIES, WHICH ARE OUR OTHER UNPROTECTED TREES. OKAY. WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT? I'M NOT SEEING THAT. YEAH, LEMME TELL YOU RIGHT HERE. YES, IT IS IN, UM, SECTION 4.541. [00:05:02] I SEE IT. E YEAH. MM-HMM. . YES MA'AM. YEAH, NO, A QUESTION. YES SIR. OKAY. SO IF MATT, IF THE REASON FOR THE EXCEPTION FOR THE EASTERN RED CEDAR IN THERE, UM, IS DUE TO, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY, SO THE GROUND IS STABLE, THEN WHY ARE WE, EVEN IF ANOTHER SPECIES IS INVASIVE, IT'S STILL PROVIDING PUR PURPOSE OF GROUND STABILIZATION. SO WHY ARE THEY SO CLASSIFIED AS UNPROTECTED? BECAUSE INVASIVE BY THEIR VERY NATURE TAKEOVER AREAS, THEY'RE INVASIVE. AND SO THE, THE GOAL IS, IS TO REMOVE THOSE INVASIVE AREAS BECAUSE THEN THEY CAN GROW AND ACTUALLY CHOKE OUT THE MORE DESIRABLE SPECIES. INVASIVE SPECIES TEND TO BE FASTER GROWING, SHORTER LIVED, UM, WHICH ACTUALLY CAN CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS OVER THEIR TIME BECAUSE THEY DIE OUT. NOW YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF DEAD TREES ALONG THE SIDE, ALONG THE LAKE SHORE THAT CAN FALL INTO THE LAKE SHORE AND INTO THE LAKE, WHICH IS WHAT WE DON'T WANT. UH, AND IT'S REALLY THEN PROTECTING THAT OTHER HABITAT FROM BEING TAKEN OVER BY, BY THOSE INVASIVE SPECIES. THAT'S WHY THOSE WOULD BE STILL UNPROTECTED. SO THE CONS TO THEM BEING INVASIVE OUTWEIGH THE PROBE OF ANY GROUNDS THAT YES, SIR. PROVIDE. OKAY. YEAH. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE THAT. WOULD IT BE SENSIBLE FOR US UNDER M UNPROTECTED TREES TO ASTERISK OR SOMETHING WITH EASTERN RED CEDAR? BECAUSE READING THROUGH DENTS, I MEAN, WE'RE ALL PAID HIGHLY TO, TO MAKE SURE WE DO THIS. HOWEVER, UM, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE EASY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS HERE AT THE CITY TO, TO SAY, OH, IT'S UNPROTECTED AND COMPLETELY MISS THE EXCEPTION. YEAH, GOOD POINT. THAT'S A VERY FAIR POINT. WE COULD, YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. WE COULD DO THAT. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU READ THESE THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR SO LONG, THEY JUST KINDA ALL START TO BLEED TOGETHER AND YOU MISS THEM AND THAT IS A VERY, VERY VALID POINT. HAVE STUFF. MM-HMM. I KINDA LIKE THE, UH, TREE PRESERVATION. WELL THE REPLACEMENT OF TREES. I HADN'T NOTICED THAT BEFORE. D WHERE A WATER TRACT, TWO PLUS ACRES SIZE, NO ONE SPECIESS OF TREE MAY CONSTITUTE MORE THAN 30% THE SAME. UM, ONE SPECIES OF TRADE, THEY CONSTITUTE MORE THAN 30% OF THIS SAME SPECIES. THAT'S KINDA AWKWARD. MM-HMM. CRAZY. BUT I GET IT. BUT WE'RE NOT WANTING JUST GIANT BLOCKS, OFR OR ANYTHING. CORRECT. UM, THAT THE LANGUAGE SHOULD BE REWORKED. I DON'T THINK IT SAYS WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY, I'M, I'M AND WHICH SECTION? FIVE EIGHT D NO ONE SPECIES A TREE IN MORE THAN 30% OF THE SAME SPECIES. THE WORDING, IT'S NOT RIGHT. I KNOW IT, I KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR, BUT IT DOESN'T SAY IT RIGHT. YOU, YOU COULD, THERE'S ONE TOO MANY TREE IN THERE. YOU COULD TAKE THAT OUT AND MAKE IT A LOT EASIER TO, TO READ. SPECIES CONSTITUTE MORE THAN 30%. 30%. AND YOU COULD JUST TAKE OUT THE END OF THAT SAME SPECIES. IT KIND OF IS REDUNDANT THERE. EXACTLY. MM-HMM. THAT, THAT AFTER 30% PERIOD. RIGHT. PERIOD. OKAY. YOU CAN TELL THERE WAS SOME REWORDING DONE IN THERE. THERE . YEAH. IT'S LIKE WE SWITCHED AROUND, TRIED MM-HMM. OR MORE THAN 30%. WE SWITCHED EVERYTHING, RIGHT? YES SIR. I'M NOT FINDING, UM, THAT SAME D I'LL LOOK TO YOU. WILL, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE ON SITE PLANS LARGER THAN TWO ACRES, HOW OFTEN DO WE GET LANDSCAPE PLANS THAT HAVE MORE THAN FOUR FOUR OR MORE SPECIES OF TREES? CAUSE THAT'S WHAT THAT WOULD REQUIRE THEN BETWEEN LARGE CANOPY TREES AND SMALLER ORNAMENTALS. I WOULD SAY THAT'S NOT UNCOMMON. UM, CAUSE THEY MAY USE A COMBINATION OF, YOU KNOW, CEDAR ELMS AND LIVE OAKS OR SOMETHING. AND THEN FOR SMALLER ORNAMENTAL, MAYBE A COMBINATION OF CREPE MYRTLES AND UM, SOMETHING ELSE, UM, SMALL, SMALLER ORNAMENTALS WOULD COUNT IN TOWARDS LIKE IT'S ALL TREE THEN? THAT'S CORRECT. YES. YEAH. THEN THAT WOULDN'T BE AS HARD THEY MM-HMM. AND EVEN WITHIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S SPECIES THAT WE TALK ABOUT HERE, NOT NECESSARILY [00:10:01] GENUS. AND SO THERE'S SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIMES OF OAK, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WOULD, WOULD COUNT. SO IT WOULDN'T BE TRICKY IF SOMEBODY HAD A VERY LARGE LOT TO BE ABLE TO HIT THAT 30% OR, AND HAVE A, A VERY DIVERSE SPECIES, UM, ON THE SITE. ONE ITEM I DO WANT ASK ABOUT IS, UM, FOUR 60. UH, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CREDIT FOR TREES. MM-HMM. LAST TIME I BROUGHT UP PERHAPS INCREASING THE MITIGATION LARGE SIZE TREES. INCENTIVIZE IT BETTER. 1, 1, 2, 3 TO ONE FEELS, IF THEY WANT TO TRY TO BUMP THAT UP MORE TO INCREASE THE INCENTIVE TO SAVE IT WAS LARGER DIAMETER. I'M WITH THAT. UH, AGAIN, THAT IS, THAT'S A POLICY DECISION THAT YOU ALL CAN RECOMMEND. UH, I DID RAISE IT BASED OFF OF YOUR RECOMMENDATION THE LAST TIME, CUZ WE DIDN'T HAVE A THREE TO ONE ON THE LAST ONE. DO YOU MIND ME? WAS IT TWO TO ONE? IT WAS TWO TO ONE. IT WAS JUST A ONE-TO-ONE AND TWO TO ONE. AND SO WE ADDED THE THREE TO ONE CUZ YOU WOULD WANT YOUR, YOUR LARGER, UM, PRE, UM, PRE UH, CREDIT TO GO TOWARDS YOUR LARGER TREES TO BE ABLE TO DO IT. SO IT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION IF YOU'RE GONNA CHANGE 'EM, YOU COULD GO TO THREE OR FOUR. UH, WHATEVER YOU GUYS THINK WOULD BE FAIR. INCENTIVIZE. I'D SAY MAKE A FOUR FOR THOSE 18 ORDERS. AND THAT WOULD, YOU'D GET MORE CREDIT FOR THAT. HOW'S THE COMMITTEE FEEL? I MEAN, I'M, I'M FINE EITHER WAY, BUT YEAH. MATT, WE DID TALK, TALK ABOUT LAST 3, 1 3. OKAY. YEAH. AS LONG AS GIVE YOU A LITTLE MORE CREDIT THEN YEAH. WHAT WAS THERE? I'M FINE. I MEAN I THINK THREE TO ONES ARE PRETTY, PRETTY GOOD CREDIT TOO. OKAY. I'M GOOD WITH THREE ONES. YEAH, SURE. I, I DO A QUESTION THOUGH. ON THE, UM, SECTION 49 TREES REPLACEMENT RATIOS STILL SAYS CALIPER THERE INSTEAD. WELL, DON'T WE USE CALIPER FOR LANDSCAPING AND UH, SO IF IT'S REFERENCING NEWLY PLANTED TREES, IT'LL BE REFERENCED AS A CALIPER. AND SO THAT MIGHT BE SOME, WHICH SECTION WERE YOU LOOKING AT? I WANNA MAKE SURE I, OH, IT IS THE TABLE FOUR DASH NINE EXISTING TREES REPLACEMENT ISSUES 4.9 REPLACEMENT. OH, SO WHERE IT SAYS REPLACEMENT CALPER INCHES REQUIRED. YES. IS THAT WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? YES. SO THERE WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT NEWLY TREES AND NEWLY PLANTED TREES ARE MEASURED IN CALIBER. THEY ARE. OKAY. CORRECT. SO IN THAT CASE WE WE'RE STILL IN, IN LINE WITH INDUSTRY STANDARDS. YES, SIR. OKAY, PERFECT. CONFUSING. WE DID DISCUSS THE INCREASING, UH, SCALING THE, THE MITIGATION FOR, FOR LARGER TREES. SO UNLESS WE, UNLESS WE MADE A, A D, YOU KNOW, UM, 19, THE 27 OR ANOTHER CATEGORY WHERE D CAN MAKE THAT ONE. IF, IF THESE ARE THE THREE CATEGORIES YOU WANNA STICK WITH. I THINK THESE ARE, THESE ARE REASONABLE. ARE YOU INTERESTED IN THE, I I'M FINE. ONE, ONE QUESTION I DO HAVE MM-HMM. ILLUSTRATION FOUR DASH THREE, TALK ABOUT THE SAMPLE THREE. HOW DO WE TREAT A TREE THAT'S PARTIALLY ON THE BOUNDARY LINE? UH, SO IF THE, THE TRUNK RESIDES, UM, ON ONLY HALF OF THE TRUNK HAS TO, EVEN IF IT'S RIGHT ON THE PROPERTY LINE, 50% OF THAT TRUNK IS WITH, ON THAT PROPERTY, THAT TREE WOULD COUNT AS BEING ON THAT PROPERTY. OKAY. THE CENTER OF THE TRUNK. THE CENTER OF THE TRUNK. YES SIR. CUZ THERE'S BEEN INSTANCES WHERE THAT TREE WAS COMPLETELY ON ONE PROPERTY LINE AND GREW OVER THE YEARS. SO THAT PART OF THAT TRUNK THEN RESIDED ONTO ANOTHER PROPERTY LINE. BUT YOU ALWAYS GO BY WHERE THE CENTER OF THAT TREE IS AND WHEREVER THE CENTER OF THAT TREE IS, THAT'S THE PROPERTY LINE THAT THAT TREE IS ASSOCIATED WITH AT GROUND LEVEL. AT GROUND LEVEL. OKAY. SO ESSENTIALLY IF YOU COULD TAKE THAT PITH FROM THE VERY CENTER OF THAT TREE AND TRACE THAT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO WHERE THE GROUND IS, WHEREVER THAT POINT IS, IS THE PROPERTY LINE THAT THAT TREE WOULD RESIDE TO. OKAY. THERE'S BEEN MANY EXPERT WITNESS CASES WHEN IT COMES TO THAT. THEN I'M SURE BRIAN WOULD'VE BEEN LOVED TO PRESIDED OVER MY COMPLIMENTS TO YOU ALL FOR COMING UP WITH, UM, IN 4.54 AND TO RECOGNIZE AND CONSERVE THE URBAN FOREST AS PART INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT'S, THANK YOU. VERY WELL. [00:15:33] WE MAY WANT TO RETHINK THAT WHOLE DIAGRAM. DO THE FINAL ONE JUST TO MAKE SURE IT MATCHES WHAT, GOOD POINT. IT'S JUST MINOR STUFF, BUT IT COULD BE CONFUSING IF WE DON'T. YEAH. WELL WE NEED MORE. YEAH. YOU KNOW, WE COULD COME UP, WE COULD, YEAH. WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT KIND OF MATCHES MM-HMM. SHOW AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT A TREE SURVEY WOULD LOOK LIKE. THAT'S ACTUALLY CAN BE HELPFUL. YEAH. OKAY. THE FINAL DOCUMENT, I LIKE COMMENTS, QUESTIONS SPENT OF EVERYONE'S IN FAVOR THEN THAT ON THE COUNCIL FOR WITH THE E COUPLE YES. WITH THE CHANGES SPECIES OF SPECIES. YEAH. YEAH. CHANGING SOME OF CEDAR BEING REFERENCED BACK TO THE OTHER, BACK TO THAT SECTION 4.54 AND THEN STRIKING THE OF THE SAME SPECIES. YEAH. RIGHT. OKAY. GOT IT. WE CAN DO THAT. COOL. VERY GOOD. ALL RIGHT. THANKS MAN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. APPRECIATE IT. THANKS MAN. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. APPRECIATE UNANIM. FORWARD TO COUNCIL. THANK YOU. THANKS. ITEM 2D REQUIRE CHARTERING SPACES AND PARKING REQUIREMENTS, I BELIEVE. RECORD THAT. LET ME DO IT RIGHT. SO ARE WE NOT BEING RECORDED? YOU ARE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REDO THAT WHOLE SECTION. NO, NO, NO. REMEMBER WHAT YOU SAID, WHAT YOU SAID. EVERYONE ON WAIT MINUTE. OKAY. YEAH. REALLY ABOUT WHAT Y'ALL SAID. I COULDN'T EVEN, IT'S OKAY. YEAH. I'M WONDERING IF MY MIC WAS OFF. SO THAT'S WHEN I BELIEVE WE'RE ON NOW. YES. THANK YOU. ALL THE MICS ARE WORKING NOW. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. TESTING. YEAH, I SOUND I FEEL MUCH LARGER ALREADY. THANK YOU. ITEM TWO D IS REVIEW REQUIREMENTS FOR EV CHARGING SPACES AND PARKING REQUIREMENTS. NOW, WE REPORTED TO COUNSEL THE, UM, PARKING MEAT OR THE CHARGING STATIONS THEMSELVES. IS THIS A DIFFERENT ITEM? I AND YEAH, JEN, MY CLARIFY. OH, DUH. ABSOLUTELY. THIS IS MINE. . OKAY. OH, OKAY. AND VAS CAN PROBABLY FILL IN A LITTLE BIT ON THE BACKGROUND, BUT YES. SO SLATED, BUT A LITTLE DIFFERENT. YEAH. OKAY. . WELL, SOMEBODY SAID WHAT'S WHAT WE ALREADY REPORTED LOW, SO ILL QUIT READING AT THAT POINT. . AH, NO. SO THE WAY, UM, GCS WRITTEN RIGHT NOW IS AN ELECT, AN EV CHARGING SPOT AT A BUSINESS DOES NOT COUNT AS A PARKING SPOT FOR THEIR REQUIRED MINIMUM PARKING SPACES. AND I WOULD LIKE TO REVIEW THAT BECAUSE I LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. IF SOMEBODY IS PARKING THEIR CAR AND CHARGING THEIR CAR THERE, THEN THEY'RE MOST LIKELY BEING, YOU KNOW, USING THE FACILITIES OF THAT BUSINESS. I MEAN, ODDS ARE IT'S GONNA BE A, A GAS STATION, RIGHT? SO THEY'RE PARKED IN THEIR CAR JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CUSTOMER. SO I THINK THAT PARKING SPACE SHOULD COUNT AS A PARKING SPACE, BUT CURRENTLY IT DOES NOT. SURE. YEAH. THANK YOU COUNCILMAN. AND, UM, OH, JUDGE. NO, GO AHEAD. OKAY. YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT THE BACKGROUND THERE. NO, ABSOLUTELY. UM, WELL, AND, AND ACTUALLY TO BE CLEAR, THE, THE G DOESN'T CLARIFY IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AS FAR AS, UM, EV STATIONS GO. IT'S REALLY STAFF'S ADMINISTRATION OF IT. OKAY. UH, INTERPRETATION. UM, IS THAT, UH, TRADITIONALLY BEEN THAT IF A BUSINESS, SAY THEY HAVE 15 REQUIRED PARKING SPACES, UM, PER THE PARKING RATIO FOR RETAIL OR CONVENIENT STORE, WHATEVER IT IS, UM, THEY CAN HAVE, UM, ELECTRONIC VEHICLE STATIONS, BUT, BUT YOU'RE CORRECT. THEY, THEY DON'T COUNT TOWARDS THE REQUIRED PARKING. THOSE WOULD JUST BE EXTRA PARKING SPACES. AND REALLY THE REASON HAS JUST BEEN BEEN THAT, UM, OFTENTIMES THEY'LL HAVE KIND OF EV PARKING ONLY OR JUST BY, UH, COMMON DRIVER BEHAVIOR, INCLUDING MYSELF. I DON'T DRIVE AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE, SO I TEND NOT TO, UM, PARK IN AN EV STATION CAUSE I ASSUME I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO PARK THERE. AND, UM, SO, UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S HOW WE'VE ADMINISTERED IT. UM, AGAIN, IT'S NOT A HARD WRITTEN POLICY, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S SILENT ON EV STATIONS, BUT THAT'S JUST BEEN OUR, UM, UM, INTERPRETATION. BUT WE'RE CERTAINLY WILLING TO, YOU KNOW, DISCUSS THAT MORE. IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE, WE PROBABLY WILL BE SEEING MORE OF WITH ELECTRONIC VEHICLES GROWING. AND, UH, SO IT'S A GOOD, IT'S DEFINITELY A TIMELY DISCUSSION. UM, I THINK BRIA HAS SOME, SOME DATA AVAILABLE ON JUST [00:20:01] KIND OF ONE OF THEIR CONSIDERATION, CONSIDERATION TO KEEP IN MIND IS, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN FOLKS DO KIND OF PULL UP AND PARK THEIR, UM, AND, AND CHARGE THEIR VEHICLES, IT'S NOT ALWAYS JUST A SUPER QUICK PROCESS. IT CAN TAKE MINIMUM 45 MINUTES OR SOMETIMES MULTIPLE HOURS IF IT'S A FULL CHARGE. SO THAT'S KIND OF SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND TOO, THAT THE VEHICLES WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, TAKING UP THOSE SPACES FOR AN X NUMBER OF MINUTES OR HOURS. SO, UM, I'LL JUST, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I KNOW, SO, YEAH. YEAH. AND TO THAT POINT ALSO, RIGHT, LIKE THE CONSUMER BEHAVIOR IS THE PART THAT, UM, OF COURSE WE DON'T HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT, RIGHT? BECAUSE I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, ME PERSONALLY, UM, I'M NOT A FAN OF HAVING THE SPACES DEDICATED JUST FOR AN EV WHETHER IT BE A CHARGING SPOT OR ANYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE IN THAT CASE YOU ARE LIMITING THAT, THAT PARKING SPOT USE. UM, BUT YEAH, CONSUMER BEHAVIOR IS GONNA BE TO AVOID IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN EV. SO THERE'S WHERE THE, THE DISCUSSION IS MM-HMM. . SURE. UM, YEAH, I, I WOULD DO, WE HAVE A LIST AVAILABLE HERE TODAY OF ALL OF THE EV CHARGING STATIONS THAT THIS ISSUE IS APPLYING TO, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SO WE ARE, WE JUST WENT THROUGH A LONG AND LABORIOUS PROCESS TO SAY THAT ANY AUTOMOTIVE RELATED, UH, BUSINESSES HAVE TO PARK THEMSELVES AND THEIR CUSTOMERS AND EVERY, EVERYTHING ON SITE BECAUSE THEY GO OVER AND TAKE UP PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, BLEED IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS, SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO, UM, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT, SINCE I DON'T DRIVE AN EV EITHER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF, UM, PRIVATE BUS BUSINESSES AND FACILITIES IN GARLAND ACTUALLY FEATURE THAT. MY EYE ISN'T TUNED TO WATCH FOR THAT. SO, BRITA, DO WE HAVE A LIST JUMP OFF? WE, WE DON'T HAVE A LIST OF ALL THE EV CHARGING STATIONS. WE DON'T HAVE A WAY TO REPORT THAT OUT FOR PERMITTING. I'M NOT SURE THAT ALL OF THEM THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED NECESSARILY HAVE BEEN PERMITTED. THERE'S THAT FACTOR TOO. PROBABLY A FEW HAVE NOT. UM, WE DO SEE THEM, WE GET REQUESTS FOR THEM OCCASIONALLY. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A FEW THAT I CAN THINK OF THAT THERE'S TOM THUMB THAT HAS A COUPLE OF THEM. UM, THE MOST RECENT REQUEST WE RECEIVED WAS A FUELING STATION THAT WANTED 12 PARKING SPACES TO ALL BE EV UH, AND THAT WAS A GOOD PORTION OF THEIR REQUIRED PARKING. MM-HMM. . YEAH. AND IN THAT SITUATION, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, MORE OF A, IT'S MORE OF A EV FUELING STATION, WHICH BRINGS UP THE QUESTION OF HOW LONG DOES IT CH TAKE TO CHARGE A VEHICLE? AND WHERE DO THE PEOPLE PARK WHEN THEY WANT TO GET A COKE AND A BAG OF CHIPS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THING. SO, UM, IT'S A COMPLICATED ISSUE AND I THINK IT'S GONNA GET, IT'S, IT'S GONNA NEED SOME LONG TERM, IT'S GONNA NEED SOME THOUGHT. I THINK MRS BECOMES MORE POPULAR AND THAT PARTICULAR ONE IS THE ONE THAT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, AND IT'S A, UM, IT'S A, IT'S A GAS STATION. THEY'LL HAVE REGULAR GAS, GAS AS WELL, BUT THE REASON THEY WANTED 12 IS BECAUSE THEY, UM, HAVE A DEAL WITH TESLA AND THEY WANT A TESLA, I GUESS, WHAT ARE THE, WHATEVER THEY CALL IT, A SUPERCHARGING STATION. UM, AND TESLA'S TRYING TO PUT THEM AROUND HERE. SO, I MEAN, IF WE COULD ATTRACT THAT KIND OF ATTENTION HERE TO GARLAND, OF COURSE THAT'S A, YOU KNOW, ECONOMIC BENEFIT AS WELL. UM, BUT YEAH, THE 12 WAS, IT WAS FOR, UH, A TESLA SUPERCHARGING STATION. MM-HMM. , IT'S NOW DOWN TO SIX, BUT STILL, IT'S STILL A LOT OF PARKING SPACES. AND THEN THAT'S, THAT'S WHEN IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION. SO I THAT'LL, YOU KNOW, DO IT COULD, COULD THEY SAY TESLA AND THEN HAVE IT NOT TESLA? I MEAN JUST WELL, IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, NO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT IN THOSE, I, I DON'T THINK THAT THE GUY WHO OWNS THE GAS STATION IS BUILDING THE CHARGERS. I THINK THAT CUZ THEY'RE, I MEAN THEY'RE LIKE OVER HALF A MILLION EACH, AREN'T THEY? SO I THINK THAT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT IN TIME RIGHT. SUPPLEMENTED BY A PRIVATE COMPANY, LIKE I THINK OURS ARE BLANK AND, YOU KNOW, TESLA WOULD PUT IN THEIRS AND, BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO COME ACROSS MORE AND MORE AND MORE, YOU KNOW. SO IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, YOU'RE ASKING FOR US TO BE ABLE TO WAIVE OUR MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR CHARGING STATION? OH NO, I'M JUST ASKING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION , BUT IS THAT WHERE YOU WERE? YEAH. WHAT, I MEAN, WHAT'S THE GOAL? YEAH, THE GOAL TO SEE WHAT'S GONNA, THE GOAL IS TO SEE WHAT'S GONNA WORK BEST FOR US, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I MEAN I PERSONALLY, I CAN SEE IT EITHER WAY, RIGHT? I MEAN THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S PROS TO, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVING THOSE SPOTS COUNT TOWARD PARKING. AND THAT WOULD BE THE FACT THAT PEOPLE DON'T NECESSARILY FEEL COMFORTABLE PARKING A GAS CAR THERE BECAUSE IT'S AN EV CHARGING SPOT, YOU KNOW, BUT THERE'S PROS TO COUNTING IT AS A PARKING SPOT BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE NOT BURDENING THE, YOU KNOW, THE GAS STATION TO HAVE ALL THIS EXTRA PARKING BECAUSE I MEAN, THE, WHEN THE CONSUMER GOES TO THE GAS STATION, I MEAN, IT'S, WHETHER THEY DRIVE A GAS OR ELECTRIC CAR, I DON'T [00:25:01] THINK SHOULD REALLY, THAT SHOULD HAVE AN EFFECT ON HOW MANY PARKING SPACES THE GUY HAS TO HAVE. WELL, THE STALLS AT THE PUMPS AREN'T, AREN'T PARKING SPACES. CORRECT. SO I DON'T SEE ANY DIFFERENT THAN EV PARKING. AND THAT'S KIND OF LIKE A STALL AT A PUMP THAT DOESN'T COUNT TOWARDS YOUR, IF YOU'RE FUELING UP, WHETHER IT BE GASOLINE OR ELECTRICITY, THAT'S A GOOD, WELL, EXCEPT THAT YOU COULD PARK A CAR AT THE PUMP, AT THE EV CHARGING SPOT AND RUN IN AND GET, AND YOU COULD PARK IN FRONT OF THE FUEL PUMP. I HAVE THAT, SEE THAT ALL THE TIME WHERE THEY'RE SITTING THERE AND I WISH THEY WOULD MOVE OUTTA MY WAY AND I CAN PULL UP. SO, UM, I, I'M FINE WITH IT. I'D RATHER HAVE IT NOT COUNT IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE JUST THE SIMPLY THE TIME IT TAKES. YOU SEE ON THIS HANDOUT WE HAVE, IT COULD TAKE UP TO AN HOUR FOR THESE FAST CHARGING. IF YOU HAVE LEVEL TWO UP TO 10 HOURS FROM AN EMPTY BATTERY, THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME. YEP. TAKING A, YOU KNOW, IF YOU RUN IN AND GET A BAG OF CHIPS AND A COKE IS , WAS THAT THEN THAT A LOT SHORTER THAN THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES YOU TO FUEL UP THAT YOU'RE SAYING YOU WOULD RATHER IT NOT COUNT? I'D RATHER HAVE SEPARATE FROM THESE PARKING REQUIRED. SO COULD MAINTAINING OUR POSITION THAT THE THE PARKING REQUIREMENT, MINIMAL PARKING REQUIREMENTS, UM, WILL NOT, UM, WILL NOT INCLUDE EV PARKING CUZ THEY'RE REALLY NOT PARKING SPACES. CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH. I MM-HMM. , I AGREE. I WILL POINT OUT THAT THIS CHART IS MISSING QUITE A BIT OF INFORMATION. UM, SO THESE, THESE TIMES ARE TIMES FROM EMPTY, UM, EV IT'S A BATTERY, IT DOESN'T CHARGE, IT'S NOT A LINEAR SCALE ON HOW IT CHARGES, IT CHARGES, UM, THE MAJORITY OF IT UPFRONT, LIKE WHATEVER, IT'S LIKE 60 OR 80% IT CHARGES LIKE THAT MM-HMM. AND THEN THE FINAL PORTION OF IT, IT TAKES A LOT LONGER TO CHARGE. SO, I MEAN, THESE AREN'T REALISTIC NUMBERS RIGHT HERE AS FAR AS THE TIME GOES BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T DRIVING THEIR CAR UNTIL IT'S BONE DRY AND THEN CHARGING IT A HUNDRED PERCENT RIGHT THERE. SURE. UM, EVEN IF YOU LOOK AT A, YOU KNOW, EVEN ON WHERE YOU PLAN YOUR TRIP ON WAVE OR GOOGLE OR WHATEVER, RIGHT? IT TELLS YOU WHERE TO STOP. IT DOESN'T TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, RUN YOUR BATTERY TILL IT'S DEAD. YOU KNOW, YOU RUN IT TILL IT'S DOWN TO 40% OR WHATEVER. AND THOSE TIMES ALSO, AS THE BATTERY TECHNOLOGY INCREASES, WHICH IS INCREASING, I MEAN AS FASTEST TECHNOLOGY DOES RIGHT. UM, THOSE TIMES GO DOWN, YOU KNOW, I MEAN IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER NOW THAN IT WAS A FEW YEARS AGO. SO THESE, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, TIME FROM EMPTY IS ACCURATE, BUT PEOPLE AREN'T WAITING UNTIL THEIR BATTERY'S EMPTY. AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT A LINEAR RELATIONSHIP ON THE CHARGE. SO ARE YOU THEN ADVOCATING THAT IT BE INCLUDED IN THAT PARKING? UM, I MEAN, I, I THINK I'D LIKE TO SEE IT. I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE EV PARKING SPOTS COUNTED AS A, AS A PARKING SPOT. YEAH. CAN WE, UH, SHOWING THE CONNECTORS HERE, TESLA, IF IT'S A TESLA CHARGER, THEN IT HAS A CERTAIN TYPE OF CONNECTOR. YOU COULDN'T, WOULD IT HAVE TO RESTRICT TO THAT BRAND OF VEHICLE ONLY THEN THE, WELL, I KNOW TESLA, FOR EXAMPLE, TESLA CAN CHARGE AT MORE THAN ONE STATION. NOW, WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT, YOU JUST HAD, YOU HAD TO HAVE THE TESLA PLUG OR WHATEVER. THEY HAVE MULTIPLE ONES IN 'EM NOW, AND IT'S GONNA GO VERY SOON. IT'S GONNA GO TO A UNIVERSAL OF SOME TYPE. IT'S GONNA HAVE TO, I MEAN, I, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT UNLIKE, I THINK THE MARKET'S GONNA TAKE CHARGING OF CELL PHONES HASN'T GONE THAT WAY. I DON'T THINK THAT BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES WILL GO THAT WAY IN THE FUTURE EITHER. IN, IN EUROPE IT IS THAT WAY. NOW IT'S GONE. IT WAS MANDATED BY THE EUROPEAN UNION. NO. YEAH. YEAH. SO IF I CAN ADD, ONE THING I THOUGHT ABOUT WHEN TALKING ABOUT, OR THINKING ABOUT THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, I COULD SEE A CASE FOR, YOU KNOW, IF 3% OF THE CARS ON THE ROAD ARE EV THEN MAYBE 3% OF THE PARKING SPACES COULD BE DEDICATED TO EV. THAT WAY YOU'RE KIND OF LINING UP THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES WITH THE NUMBER OF AVERAGE VEHICLES ON THE ROAD OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. MAKES SENSE TO ME JUST FROM A, YOU KNOW, AND THAT COULD CHANGE OVER TIME, OBVIOUSLY IF, IF THE MARKET GETS LARGER, THE, UM, YOU'LL NOTICE ON HERE, THE FAST CHARGE DOES TALK ABOUT THIS IS A TIME TO 80% CHARGE, CUZ YOU'RE CORRECT. IT TAKES ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO GO THE LAST 10 OR 15 OR 20% AS IT DOES THE FIRST PART OF THE CHARGE. SO YOU'RE, OH, IT'S ON THE BACK THERE. YEAH. THE, THERE WE GO. THE BEGINNING AND THE END OF THE CHARGE IS WHAT TAKES A LONG TIME IN THE MIDDLE IS WHAT GOES QUICKLY. SO, UM, IT REALLY, YOU, IT, THERE'S SO MANY VARIABLES, HOW, HOW FULL THE CAR IS WHEN IT PULLS UP AND THAT SORT OF THING. I WOULD SAY IT ALSO, THE VARIABLE IN MY OPINION IS IT'S MAYBE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IF IT'S A PARKING LOT OF AN APARTMENT BUILDING VERSUS A PARKING LOT OF A GAS STATION. YOU KNOW, I SEE THOSE TWO VARY DIFFERENTLY, BUT MM-HMM. , THERE'S SO MANY, MANY VARIABLES TO THINK ABOUT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING TOWARD THE FUTURE FOR THIS. I JUST DON'T THINK WE KNOW QUITE WHERE WE NEED TO GO. WE HAVE SO MANY PARKING ISSUES IN GARLAND WHERE BUSINESSES HAVE OVERRUN THEIR, UH, AND WE CAN'T UNRING THAT BELL, YOU KNOW, UH, PRACTICALLY FOR A [00:30:01] LOT OF THINGS ANYWAY. UM, WELL I WILL SAY THE FUTURE'S COMING WHETHER WE'RE READY FOR IT OR NOT, AND IT'S BEEN BEING MANDATED. YOU KNOW, OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS PRETTY MUCH MANDATING, IT IS MANDATING THAT WE SWITCH TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES. SO, I MEAN, IT IS COMING AND IT IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT AS WELL. SO I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD, SHOULD FIGHT IT. I THINK WE SHOULD EMBRACE IT AND ACCEPT IT. MR. CHAIR? YES SIR. IF I CAN ADD SOMETHING. YES. AND, AND WE'LL, IF I GET OFF THE TRACKS, JUST RAISE YOUR HAND AND TELL ME . SO A COUPLE THOUGHTS. ONE IS THAT THE G IS SILENT RIGHT NOW. SO, UM, STAFF HAS THE FLEXIBILITY TO, UH, LOOK AT THE SITUATION AND, AND IF, YOU KNOW, THIS LATEST CASE OF THERE BEING 12 SPACES SEEMED LIKE THAT'S TOO MUCH, PROBABLY SHOULDN'T COUNT. UH, THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY WITH HOW IT'S STRUCTURED RIGHT NOW. THE OTHER IS THAT, UM, MOST OF OUR DEVELOPMENTS COME THROUGH AS PLAN DEVELOPMENT NOW, AND THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US AND THEN PLAN COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL TO REVIEW DETAILED PLANS AND, AND BETTER UNDERSTAND THE SCENARIO. SO IF IT'S APARTMENTS VERSUS RETAIL VERSUS SOMETHING ELSE, UH, WE COULD, WE COULD MAKE A CALL AND HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY THERE. SO JUST EITHER SCENARIO KIND OF, KIND OF WORKS OUT. UM, UNLESS THE C THE COMMITTEE AND COUNCIL WANTS TO DECIDE TO JUST, NO, WE'RE NOT GONNA COUNT THEM AT ALL. UH, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE COULD WRITE INTO THE G C. BUT AS IT IS RIGHT NOW, THERE IS SOME FLEXIBILITY, WHETHER IT'S, UH, THROUGH A STAFF APPROVAL OR THROUGH, UH, THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY FOR IT. THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH, GOOD POINT. OKAY. I'D, I'D BE OKAY WITH LEAVING LEAVING IT ALONE FOR NOW. YEAH, I MEAN, I, I, I FAIL TO SEE WHAT THE ISSUE TRYING TO BE ADDRESSED AT THIS CURRENT TIME. I MEAN, CERTAINLY I LIKE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT PERCENTAGE OF CARS ON THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, IF IT BECOMES MORE THAN WHATEVER IT IS RIGHT NOW, FIVE TO 10%, I ASSUME SOMETHING THAT MAYBE, BUT ONCE IT BECOMES A GREATER ISSUE, THEN CERTAINLY WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN. MAYBE BRING IT BACK AT THAT TIME. SO, OKAY. THAT, WE'LL TAKE THAT TO COUNCIL THEN AS WELL AND DISCUSS, UH, WE'LL LOOK AT IT AT ALL. ANOTHER FUTURE OF TIME POSSIBLY. SO, SO IS OUR RECOMMENDATION GOING TO BE STATUS QUO? IS THAT YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. GIVEN WHAT MR. REX SAID. OKAY. ALRIGHT, OUR FINAL ITEM THEN. ITEM TWO E CONSIDER CHANGES TO ZONING RULES REGARDING PET RETAIL STORES. ALL RIGHT. MEMBERS, I DON'T HAVE A LONG PRESENTATION OR ANYTHING HERE. I JUST HAVE SOME, UH, AVAILABLE INFORMATION IF YOU NEED IT. UM, JUST TO GO OVER WHAT OUR, UH, UM, SURE. GO AHEAD AND JOIN ME. . I'LL GO FIRST THOUGH. UM, AS FAR AS THE ZONING, UH, RULES GO, AS THE AGENDA ITEM INDICATES, UM, UM, THE G DOESN'T SAY A WHOLE LOT ABOUT PET STORES OTHER THAN HAVING A DEFINITION, OF COURSE, WHERE THEY CAN GO. THE DEFINITION IS A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT OFFERING SMALL ANIMALS FOR SALE, NO LIVESTOCK, WHERE ALL CREATURES ARE HOUSED WITHIN THE BUILDING. AND THE SALE OF PET FOODS AND SUPPLIES MAY INCLUDE PET GROOMING, SALON, INDOOR PET CARE, PLAY BOARDING, AND OR SMALL ANIMAL, UH, VETERINARY SERVICES AS ACCESSORY USES. AND AS FAR AS WHERE THEY CAN GO, UH, BY ZONING, UM, THEY'RE ALLOWED BY S U P IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES DISTRICT AND IN TWO OF THE DOWNTOWN, UH, SUBDISTRICTS, WHICH IS THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND THE DOWNTOWN, UH, SQUARE, UH, SUBDISTRICT, UM, THAT'S BY S U. AND THE, UM, ZONING DISTRICTS WHERE THEY'RE ALLOWED BY WRIGHT ARE COMMUNITY RETAIL, LIGHT, COMMERCIAL, HEAVY, COMMERCIAL, URBAN RESIDENTIAL URBAN BUSINESS, AND THE DOWNTOWN UPTOWN SUBDISTRICT AND THE DOWNTOWN SUBURBAN COURT OR SUB-DISTRICT. AND ANY OTHER ZONING DISTRICTS THAT ARE NOT LISTED HERE, SUCH AS, UM, ANY OTHER RESIDENTIAL MULTI-FAMILY DISTRICTS OR INDUSTRIAL, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED, UH, EITHER BY U OR BY WRIGHT. SO THAT'S REALLY ONLY WHERE THE G ADDRESSES PET STORES. UM, ART, OF COURSE, IS HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT FROM AN ANIMAL SERVICES, UH, STANDPOINT IF NEEDED. SO I'LL OPEN UP FOR ANY QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION. WELL, UM, MAY I PRETEND I BELIEVE YOU HAD MORE ABOUT THIS ISSUE? YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S SEVERAL, SEVERAL STREAMS GOING. SO I BELIEVE, AND I'M LOOKING AT MR. ENGLAND, I, I BELIEVE THIS IS THE ONE WHERE, UM, THIS WAS THE ONE REFERRED BY, I BELIEVE, ROBERT JOHN SMITH. IS THAT CORRECT? OR WHAT? WE WERE DOING MULTIPLE. SO I, THAT'S THE PROBLEM IS IT'S, IT'S, IT'S WORDED IN THIS DIFFERENT PART. YOU'RE RIGHT. DIFFERENT PARTS OF THIS IS ARE GOING TO DIFFERENT COMMITTEES AND I BELIEVE LIKE THREE DIFFERENT COMMITTEES IF I'M, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. YES. SO, SO I'M TRYING TO, WE'RE WE'RE STRICTLY LOOKING AT, THIS IS NOT THE PRE ZONING, UM, CORRECT. NO, THIS IS JUST STRICTLY ZONING. THIS IS STRICTLY ZONING. SO, SO WE'RE BASICALLY LOOKING AT WHAT THE DALLAS ORDINANCE DID APPROXIMATELY [00:35:01] SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, CONSIDERING IT, NOT NECESSARILY, NOT NECESSARILY. UH, I'M TECHNICALLY, YES, YOU COULD BE LOOKING AT THAT. IF THAT'S THE DESIRE OF THE COMMITTEE, IT'S PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING I WOULD RECOMMEND AT THIS TIME, BUT IT COULD BE SOMETHING LESS THAN THAT. IT'S JUST STRICTLY HOW DO Y'ALL WANT TO ZONE AND DO Y'ALL WANT TO MAKE LEGISLATION THAT Y'ALL PUT IN PLACE AS FAR AS ZONING GOES, APPLIC APPLICABLE TO USES GOING FORWARD AFTER SUCH AT, AT A SPECIFIC DATE OR HOW Y'ALL MIGHT WANT TO DO THAT? I MEAN, THERE'S A VARIETY OF WAYS IN WHICH Y'ALL COULD, COULD, COULD DO THE ZONING FOR THESE PET, THESE TYPES OF PET SHOPS. SO, OKAY. WELL, COMMITTEE, THE, THE ISSUE AROSE, UM, FROM, FROM MULTIPLE DIRECTIONS AT OVER A PERIOD OF A FEW WEEKS, UM, BECAUSE THE HUMANE SOCIETY AND A BUNCH OF OTHER GROUPS, UM, LEGIT GROUPS, UH, APPROACHED SEVERAL OF US AND WERE SHOWING US PRETTY ROBUST DOCUMENTATION THAT, UM, ANIMALS BEING DOGS, CATS, NOT GERBILS AND CHICKENS, UH, DOGS AND CATS, UM, BEING SOLD IN RETAIL PET STORES, UM, IN MANY AREAS IN TEXAS WERE, UM, NUMBER ONE, DESPITE THEIR CLAIMS ACTUALLY BEING, UH, BOUGHT FROM PUPPY MILLS, WHERE THE CONDITIONS ARE HORRIFIC. UM, AND THEY ARE, UH, SAYING THEY'RE AKC CERTIFIED, WHATEVER, BUT WHEN YOU CHECK BEHIND THAT, THEY'VE, THEY'VE LIKE NEVER BEEN INSPECTED. UM, IT, IT'S JUST, IT'S AN UGLY SITUATION. AND SO THEY'RE ASKING US TO BAN RETAIL PET STORES OPERATING IN THE CITY. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE BASELINE, THAT IS THE CITIZEN REQUEST, AN ORGANIZATIONAL REQUEST, UM, FOR US TO SAY NO MORE. SO WE'VE GOT TWO, I BELIEVE, UM, TWO ACTIVE RETAIL PET STORES IN THE CITY OF GARLAND THAT, THAT SELL DOGS AND CATS NOT SOURCED THROUGH ANIMAL SHELTERS OR RESCUES. UM, AND THE, WELL, I'M GONNA LET, WILL YOU, WILL YOU TALK THE COMMITTEE THROUGH THE, IN INSPECT WHAT HAS BEEN THE INSPECTION PROCESS AND WHAT KIND OF OVERSIGHT WE HAVE OVER THOSE ANIMALS AND WHERE THINGS HAVE NOT WORKED OUT SO WELL? SURE, THANKS. UM, SO IF YOU'RE GONNA SELL ANIMALS WITHIN THE CITY OF GARLAND, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PERMIT WITH ANIMAL SERVICES. YOU GOTTA APPLY FOR THAT. UM, ONCE WE GET THE APPLICATION, THEN WE GO OUT THERE, WE DO THE INSPECTION, UM, AND THE INSPECTION. AND THEN I SAID THIS IN THE LAST COMMITTEE MEETING IS THAT'S ONE OF OUR WEAK POINTS. I THINK WE CAN DO A LOT BETTER, UH, IN THAT ASPECT. BUT WE'LL GO OUT THERE AND INSPECT, MAKE SURE THEY'RE UP TO DATE ON RABIES, THAT THEY DO HAVE A VETERINARIAN COME IN OUT TO DO AN INSPECTION, MAKING SURE IT'S CLEAN. UM, AND THEN ALSO THAT OUR PERMIT IS VISIBLE, UH, FOR THE PUBLIC TO SEE, UH, AND THEN WE PASS IT. UM, AND REALLY IN BETWEEN THAT, NOW YOU HAVE TO RENEW, RENEW THIS PERMIT ANNUALLY. UM, AND WE DON'T NECESSARILY, JUST DEPENDING ON TIME, GO AND DO INSPECTIONS, UNANNOUNCED INSPECTIONS BETWEEN THAT ONE YEAR TIME. UM, AND THEN ALSO CREATING A MATRIX OF WHEN THIS PERMIT IS UP FOR RENEWAL. UM, THAT'S PRETTY, PRETTY MUCH WHERE IT'S AT NOW. UH, I KNOW I STUDIED THIS LAST TIME, UM, WE'RE WORKING ON CREATING A MORE ROBUST, UM, INSPECTION PROCESS, UH, AND HOPEFULLY WE'D HAVE THAT DONE AND CREATE A MODEL FOR THAT AND HAVE IT TO YOU GUYS HERE SOON. UM, BUT THAT IS PRETTY MUCH HOW OUR INSPECTION PROCESS WORKS FOR, FOR THESE PET SHOPS. NOW, QUESTION ABOUT THAT THE PERMITTING AND INSPECTION PROCESS IS COMPLETELY SEPARATE FROM THE ZONING PROCESS. IT IS CORRECT. SO, SO WE'RE, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S MUCH WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT IN THIS COMMITTEE THEN, REGARDING THAT. IT'S, WELL, I, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT PROCESS, RIGHT. EXCEPT TO UNDERSTAND SURE. THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH ZONING RELATES TO THE KAREN OVERSIGHT. IS HE FLAGGING US? OH, UH, I WAS GONNA SAY, YES. WE, I WAS GONNA SAY, UM, THAT, UH, COUNCILMAN SMITH IS HERE AS WELL TO MEETING MR. CHAIRMAN. SO I GUESS AS A, I BELIEVE THIS WAS A REFERRAL BY, UH, DEPUTY MAYOR PROTE SMITH, THIS PARTICULAR ONE. NO IDEA. OKAY. SEE, THAT'S WHAT WE ALREADY GOT TO . UM, SO THE, SOME OF THE BIG QUESTIONS, AND I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THIS ONE'S GONNA BOIL DOWN TO IS, UH, WHAT, IF ANY CHANGES DO WE WANT TO CONSIDER, [00:40:01] UM, THAT WILL AFFECT THE OPERATION EFFECT OR IN THE OPERATION OF RETAIL PET STORES SELLING DOGS AND CATS IN THE CITY OF GARLAND. AND IN MAKING THAT KIND OF DECISION, SOME OF THESE OTHER THINGS HAVE PERIPHERAL IMPACTS. SO THAT'S, I HAVE A QUESTION. HOW DOES, UM, WHAT ABOUT INDIVIDUALS SELLING ANIMALS? DO WE, IS THAT REGULATED AT ALL BY THIS CITY? DO WE, I MEAN, IS, I MEAN, I WOULD ASSUME THAT'S NOT AFFECTED BY ZONING, THOUGH. HOW DOES THAT WORK? IT'S, IT'S NOT. SO WE DO HAVE BREEDER'S PERMITS. OKAY. AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I DID WANT TO BRING UP AFTER WE MADE A DECISION ON WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO WITH THE PET SHOPS IS WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS BAN PET SHOPS. AND THEN NEXT THING YOU KNOW, THEY'RE APPLYING FOR BREEDER'S PERMITS. EXACTLY. THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I SEE. . READY? , DID YOU WANT ME TO JUMP IN ON ANYTHING OR? WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU TEAM SET ON IF YOU WANT TO. SURE, SURE. I MEAN, THE, UH, OF COURSE THE INTENT WAS, UH, FOR DEVELOPMENT SERVICE TO DISCUSS WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT THESE PARTICULAR TYPE OF RETAIL STORES, UH, ALLOWED IN THE CITY, EITHER BY RYDER U OR NOT AT ALL. AND, UH, WHAT, UM, WHAT ZONING, UH, CATEGORIES THEN MAY OR MAY NOT BE ALLOWED IN. UH, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE CORE QUESTION FOR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. UH, AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, UM, THE, THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF AN E TYPE OF, UH, ZONING BASED BAN, THERE'S TWO PATHS THAT I LOOK AT THERE. THE FIRST IS WHAT ART JUST MENTIONED, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, UH, HOW DOES IT GO UNDERGROUND AND HOW DOES THAT EXPRESS ITSELF, UM, IN, ON THE BLACK MARKET, UH, OR WITH INDIVIDUALS TAKING THE PLACE OF THESE RETAIL STORES. UM, THE THING WITH THAT IS THAT ESSENTIALLY YOU, YOU'RE TURNING IT FROM A, A HIGH EFFICIENCY, MASS PRODUCTION MODEL INTO PEOPLE IN GARLAND BREEDING AND SELLING PETS, TYPICALLY IN GARLAND, BUT ALSO POTENTIALLY OUTSIDE. YOU'RE, YOU'RE REDUCING THE SCOPE. YOU'RE NOT ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE. AND SO YOU, YOU MAY BE, UH, DEALING WITH A SMALLER NUMBER OF PETS. UM, AND ALL OF THIS, YOU KNOW, MAKING NO MISTAKE ABOUT ALL OF THIS IS DESIGNED TO SEE IF WE CAN GET MORE PEOPLE PICKING UP FROM THE SHELTER AND, AND DEALING WITH THAT PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE TO WHERE WE'RE NOT CONSTANTLY HAVING TO RAMP UP OUR SERVICES TO ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT SOME FOLKS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, I FEEL, ARE KIND OF ABUSING THOSE SERVICES. UH, BECAUSE WHEN THEY DON'T SELL A PET, IT GETS BROUGHT TO OUR SHELTER, IT GETS SURRENDERED, AND WE AS TAXPAYERS HAVE TO BEAR THE FINANCIAL BURDEN OF THAT. UH, THE SECOND PIECE TO THIS, UM, AND I JUST LOST TRACK OF WHERE I WAS. WE, WE TALKED ABOUT THE, THE UN THE OTHER UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE IS, UM, AND, AND I FEEL PRETTY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS, BUT I MAY, I MAY BE THE ONLY ONE ON COUNCIL WHO DOES, I DON'T KNOW. UM, THE FOLKS THAT CAME HERE AND ESTABLISHED A BUSINESS DID SO LEGALLY, UH, WITH A VERY KNOWN SET OF RULES THAT THEY ABIDED BY. AND I HAVE NOT BEEN A FAN OF THE IDEA OF TRYING TO ADOPT A, A PZ POLICY THAT WOULD REMOVE LEGITIMATE MARKET PARTICIPANTS. BUT I THINK WE AS A CITY HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY WE DON'T WANT ANY NEW ONES. AND SO, KIND OF THE WAY I WOULD LIKE TO DO IT, OR THE WAY I'D LIKE TO SEE IT DONE, UH, BUT IT IS OF COURSE UP TO THE COMMITTEE, IS THAT WE ELIMINATE THAT, THE ABILITY OF NEW BUSINESSES TO COME IN THAT HAVE THIS MODEL. UH, BUT WE LEAVE THE FOLKS ALONE WHO CAME IN HERE AND DID THINGS ACCORDING TO OUR LAWS, UH, BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE, THEY HAVE RIGHTS MM-HMM. , UH, WHETHER OR NOT I LIKE THEIR BUSINESS MODEL, THEY DID IT CORRECTLY AND THEY HAVE RIGHTS. SO, UH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION, BUT I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. SOUNDS SIMILAR TO OTHER THINGS WE'VE DONE. EXISTING NON-CONFORMING USE MM-HMM. AND, YEP. YEP. YEAH. CAN YOU ADD, IS THAT, UH, CORRECT WHAT YOU SAID THAT THEY BRING THE ANIMALS TO YOUR SHELTER ONCE THEY, IF THEY'RE NOT SOLD? OR IS THAT YOU SEE THAT HAPPEN? WE ARE SEEING THAT A LOT. I MEAN, THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM RIGHT NOW, NOT ONLY IN OUR SHELTER, BUT SHELTERS ACROSS TEXAS IS THE AMOUNT OF SURRENDERS COMING THROUGH, UM, IS, IS ASTRONOMICAL. AND IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, WE NEED TO KIND OF PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE HELP WITH THAT. MM-HMM. . SO THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POLICY CHANGE, RIGHT. GONNA JUST COMPLETE BAN OF ALL TAKE IT OUT OF OUR ZONING CODE COMPLETELY. IS THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY PROCESS IDEA. OKAY. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S PRETTY CLEAN. MM-HMM. . YEAH. AND NOT HAVE ANY PROCESS, OTHER NO PROCESS FOR NEW ONES TO COME IN AND JUST NOT LEAVE THAT [00:45:01] DOOR. NOT U NOT SPECIAL ZONES, JUST CITYWIDE NO NEW ONES. IT'S, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S WHERE THE, THAT'S WHERE THE PUBLIC WANTS TO GO WITH THIS, SO YEAH, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. YEAH. I KNOW A NUMBER OF OTHER CITIES HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. YEAH. YEAH. I, THAT'S, AND THAT'S THE ONLY THING I'VE SEEN ABOUT, I DIDN'T KNOW OH, ABOUT THIS. I'VE JUST SEEN ON THE NEWS WHERE CITIES HAVE COMPLETELY BANNED PET STORES AND THERE'S A KID I LOVE GOING TO THE MALL AND YOU, YOU GO TO THE PET STORE AND SEE ALL THE LITTLE ANIMALS IN THERE, BUT AS A KID, YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING BEHIND THAT EITHER. NOW IS THIS BANNING THESE PET STORES CATS AND DOGS, THERE ARE OTHER ANIMALS THAT ARE CONCERNS THAT OTHER, I MEAN, THIS TAKES OUT THOSE OTHER ANIMALS IN ADDITION TO CATS AND DOGS. WELL, WE HAVE TO HAVE ALLOWED FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR FEEDERS, RIGHT. YOU KNOW MM-HMM. , WHETHER IT BE, I MEAN, I GUESS IT'S WHERE THE DEFINITION, WHAT, WHAT IS A PET, RIGHT? I MEAN, CUZ LIKE I BUY CRICKETS FOR MY KID'S, BEARDED DRAGON. RIGHT. AND THEY SELL FEEDER MICE. AND SO THERE'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING'S GONNA NEED TO BE CLEANED UP IN THE WORDING AND YOU CAN, YOU CAN BUY CHICKS AT ROACH SEED FEEDED, RIGHT? YEAH. NEXT TO THE, YEAH. YEAH. AND, AND THIS DEFINITION OF PET STORE, I MEAN THE, THE PET STORES THAT ARE CREATING THE ISSUES ARE NOT THE ROACHES FEED AND SEED STORES. CORRECT. THESE ARE STORES AND IT'S NOT THE GROOMING STORES, UM, WHERE YOU CAN TAKE YOUR, YOUR PETS IN TO GET GROOMED. IT ISN'T THAT. IT'S THE ONES THAT HAVE ANIMALS, UM, DOGS AND CATS RESIDENT. UM, THEY LIVE THERE, THEY STAY OVERNIGHT. UM, AND THEY AREN'T LIKE CUSTOMERS WHO OWN THE DOGS COMING IN AND HAVING 'EM GROOMED AND TAKING 'EM HOME. SO I, I THINK MAYBE WE SHOULD UPDATE, CLARIFY OUR LEGAL DEFINITION OF WHAT WE'RE CALLING PET STORES AND MAYBE BREAK THEM INTO TWO VERY SPECIFIC CATEGORIES SO WE DON'T ACCIDENTALLY, UH, DO HARM TO OTHER STORES. AND, AND THERE THERE ARE ONLY TWO RIGHT NOW THAT ARE DOING THE THINGS THAT, UM, WELL, THAT ARE IN THE POSITION WHERE THEY, UM, THEY COULD BE SOME OF THE ONES CAUSING TROUBLE. ALTHOUGH WE HAVEN'T HAD CONSISTENT INSPECTIONS IN BETWEEN, WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY SURPRISE INSPECTIONS, SO WHO KNOWS? BUT IT'S CERTAINLY HAPPENING IN OTHER CITIES. AND ART HAS SEEN IT IN HIS, UH, IN HIS PAST WORK MM-HMM. BEFORE HE CAME WITH TO US. YEAH. WE, WE CAN LOOK AT THAT. I KNOW THERE, THERE IS ACTUALLY A SEPARATE DEFINITION FOR FEED STORES. UM, AND OF COURSE IT, IN THIS DEFINITION IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, PET GROOMING SALONS, UM, MAYBE ACCESSORY USES TO PET STORES. SO THAT INDICATES THAT'S NOT, UM, INCLUDED, NECESSARILY INCLUDED IN THIS USE AS A PRIMARY USE. BUT, UM, YEAH, WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT THAT. WELL THERE'S, I MEAN, JUST READING THIS DEFINITION RIGHT HERE, ONE GIANT LOOPHOLE THAT I SEEN SEE IS IT SAYS ALL CREATURES ARE HOUSED WITHIN THE BUILDING. SO ALL I GOTTA DO IS PUT A KENNEL IN THE BACK PARKING LOT AND PUT A DOG IN IT. AND THEN I'VE GOTTEN AROUND THIS, DO WE HAVE SEPARATE ZONING CATEGORIES FOR PET GROOMING, SALON, VETERINARY SERVICES, THAT SORT OF THING. THAT WOULDN'T INCLUDE THE SALES OF ANIMALS CUZ THAT'S THAT WORKING KEY. IT'S HINGING ON, IT SAYS SMALL ANIMAL FOR SALE. RIGHT. IT'S A RETAIL FOR SALE ESTABLISHMENT. UM, THERE IS, UH, VETERINARY CLINIC. MM-HMM. IS ELAINE USE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, CUZ WE WANNA ALLOW THESE OTHER GROUP DOC GROOMERS AND ALL THAT. IT'S PERFECTLY FINE. IT'S THAT. WHAT ABOUT THE SALE OF OTHER, YOU KNOW, THERE IS IN, IN RICHARDSON THERE'S A PLACE YOU CAN GO, YOU CAN BUY, YOU KNOW, BEER TO DRAGONS, GECKOS, YOU CAN BUY SNAKES. DO WE WANT TO, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THE PUBLIC HAS ANY ISSUE WITH THAT, BUT FISH, PEOPLE BUY FISH. FISH, YEAH. FISH TANK AND YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF THING. THEY HAVE NOT CAUSED ISSUES. RIGHT? YES. SO I MEAN, DO YOU JUST SAY DOGS AND CATS? YEP. THAT'S WHERE THE COMPLAINTS ARE COMING FROM. OKAY. I MEAN, PRIMARILY DOGS BECAUSE CATS, THERE'S, WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH, UH, . UM, NOT JUST SAYING CATS, NOT, NOT, UH, NOT AKC REGISTERED FERRET, NO IN READING O OVER SOME OF THE OTHER ORDINANCES BY THE CITIES THAT HAVE THIS IN PLACE, IT READS DOGS AND CATS. OKAY. OKAY. THAT THAT'S, WELL IF THAT'S SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO WORK ELSEWHERE, IT'S PROBABLY SUFFICIENT ENOUGH HERE. YEAH. I MEAN THAT'S THE MAJORITY OF OUR SHELTER ANYWAY WAS BUILT FOR DOGS AND CATS. MM-HMM. , OF COURSE IT'S ADDRESSES THAT ISSUE DIRECTLY IF WE REMOVE THAT. SO MR. GAR, DO YOU THINK YOU COULD LOOK AT OUR ZONING CODE AND DRAFT SOMETHING THAT WOULD REMOVE THAT? SURE. SOUNDS LIKE OUR DEFINITION CAN BE CLARIFIED TO, UM, WE'D KEEP A PET STORE DEFINITION, BUT CLARIFY DOGS AND CATS AND THEN IN THE LANE USE MATRIX, [00:50:01] UM, YOU'D ESSENTIALLY BE REMOVING ALL THE PEAS AND S'S INDICATED, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT'S ALLOWED BY RIDE OR BY S U UM, OH THAT WAS PET STORE, BUT YEAH, THAT'S, YEAH, HERE WE GO. PET STORE INDOORS ONLY. UM, BUT YES, WE CAN, WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT THAT. AND, UM, NOW, WELL, SO IF WE'RE GONNA CHANGE DEFINITE PET STORE TO EXCLUDE DOG AND CATS, DO WE NEED TO CHANGE THE SS AND P THERE? IS THAT, OR DOES THAT TAKE CARE OF THE ISSUE WITH JUST REMOVING DOGS AND CATS OUT OF IT? BECAUSE IF, LIKE THEY'RE SELLING, IT'S A FISH STORE, FISH TANKS AND ALL THAT, I MEAN, WE COULD STILL BE IN LIGHT COMMERCIAL, STILL BE IN DOWNTOWN OR WHEREVER YOU KNOW IT. SO IT'S JUST ADJUSTING THE DEFINITION OF PET STORE. DOES THAT MEET THE GOAL WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE? WELL, ONE, ONE MORE JUST TO, TO THROW ALL THESE THINGS OUT ON THE TABLE. SINCE THIS IS THE FIRST MEETING ABOUT THIS MM-HMM. , UM, WE WOULD NEED TO DO THIS SO THAT, UM, I WOULD ASSUME IF A PET STORE WANTED TO COME AND OPEN, IS THERE ANY WAY FOR ONE TO OPEN TO SELL SHELTER SOURCED ANIMALS? DOES THAT NEED TO BE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CATEGORY, UM, BASED ON SOURCING? AND WOULD THAT BE PERMISSIBLE? ANOTHER SUGGESTION WOULD BE IF YOU, INSTEAD OF ELIMINATING IT ALL TOGETHER, JUST MOVE IT, MOVE ALL THE ZONING TO S U P AND THEN WE COULD DEAL WITH A CASE BY CASE BASIS. WELL, SOUNDS LIKE WE MAY DO SOME OTHER CITIES MAY HAVE YEAH. DELINEATED DOGS AND CATS VERSUS MAYBE OTHER REPTILES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO MAYBE WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND UM, BRING SOMETHING BACK THAT KIND OF HELPS DELINEATE THAT AND YOU KNOW, WHICH ONE'S ALLOWED AND WHICH ONE'S CLEARLY NOT CITYWIDE. SO, BECAUSE THE DALLAS ONE SPECIFICALLY TARGETED DOGS AND CATS, RIGHT. THAT'S THEY ALL DO MM-HMM. , RIGHT? YEAH. AND I'M, I'M JUST LOOKING AT DALLAS MO, YOU KNOW, NEIGHBORING CITY TO US THAT, UM, THAT'S WHY I ASKED IF IT'S JUST TAKING, REMOVING THE DOGS AND CATS OUT OF OUR PET STORE DEFINITION, WOULD THAT ADDRESS THE ISSUE ALONE WITHOUT HAVING TO REVIEW LIGHT COMMERCIAL HEAVY COMMERCIAL, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH ALL THAT FOR IT THEN. WELL, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE PET STORE DEFINITION? YES. YEAH. SO IF IT JUST SAID A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT OFFERING SMALL ANIMALS FOR SALE, NO LIVESTOCK DOGS OR CATS OR JUST SAYING A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT OFFERING DOGS OR CATS FOR SALE. UM, I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO SEE IN MATRIX FORM SOME KIND OF, UH, EXPLORATION OF OTHER CITIES IN THIS AREA THROUGHOUT TEXAS AND MAYBE HOWEVER FAR THIS HAS GONE ON IN ENOUGH CITIES, IN ENOUGH CITIES OUR SIZE AND EVEN, YOU KNOW, LARGER AND SMALLER THAT I THINK A LOT OF OTHER COUNCILS HAVE GONE THROUGH A PRETTY PAINSTAKING PROCESS. I WOULD KINDA LIKE TO SEE WHAT SOME OF THEM HAVE COME UP WITH BEFORE WE START FREEWHEELING, UM, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE AND MAKE IT AS AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE. NOW, DALLAS ACTUALLY, AND I, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THEY'VE PASSED ALL COURT MUSTERS SO FAR. THEY HAVE NOT HAD A LEGAL, UM, IT'S STILL BEING LITIGATED, BUT YES, THERE HASN'T BEEN A JUDGMENT AGAINST DALLAS. YEAH. AND THEY HAVEN'T WON ANY OF THEIR CASES THAT HAVE COME UP THAT THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT. MM-HMM. . OKAY. SO DALLAS JUST, YOU KNOW, MADE THIS NOT ONLY NEW BUSINESSES BUT EXISTING ONES AND I THINK GAVE THEM A YEAR MM-HMM. TO SWITCH OVER. DIDN'T SAY IN A YEAR THEY WOULD HAVE TO CLOSE, BUT GAVE THEM A YEAR TO SWITCH OVER TO SOURCING PETS FROM SHELTERS AND RESCUES, WHICH WAS ALSO AN INTERESTING APPROACH. THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING THERE'S A LOT OF NUANCES. YEAH. YEAH. SO IT, WE'LL SAY READING SEVERAL ORDINANCES AND I HAVE A LIST OF CITIES, UH, A LOT OF 'EM WAS WORDED THAT WAY TO TRANSITION TO WHERE THEY COULD ONLY SELL, SELL FROM EITHER A RESCUE ORGANIZATION OR A LOCAL ANIMAL SHELTER. MM-HMM. HISTORICALLY, HOW, I MEAN HAVE IS, I MEAN I KNOW THIS IS ALL PRETTY NEW, RIGHT? SO IS THERE SOMEWHERE IN OUR REGION WHERE THAT TRANSITION HAS ALREADY OCCURRED AND THE BUSINESS HAS HAD LIKE ANOTHER SIX MONTHS AND TO, AND ARE THEY STILL IN BUSINESS? YOU KNOW, I'D HAVE TO LOOK THAT UP. A LOT OF THESE ARE, THEY'RE NEW. I THINK EVERYBODY'S KIND OF JUMPING ON BOARD. UM, I'M LOOKING AT 'EM. IT'S 20 22, 20 21. UM, BUT YEAH, I CAN DEFINITELY LOOK INTO THAT. YEAH. CUZ AND TO, TO ROBERT JOHN'S POINT, YOU KNOW, I DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO GO IN AND TELL SOMEBODY WHO'S JUST [00:55:01] OPENED UP THEIR BRAND NEW BUSINESS, WE'RE SHUTTING YOU DOWN EVEN THOUGH IT WAS PERFECTLY LEGAL. AND I DON'T WANT TO TELL THEM, BASICALLY WE'RE SHUTTING YOU DOWN IN A YEAR. SURE. YOU KNOW, CUZ I DON'T KNOW IF THAT TRANSITION IS POSSIBLE JUST CUZ WE SAY IT. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY CAN BUILD A BUSINESS MODEL OFF OF THAT. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, SO, AND THEN THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY DO GET ANIMALS FROM THE SHELTER, ARE THEY GETTING, ARE THEY COMING INTO THE SHELTER AND THEY TAKING ALL THE CREAM IN THE CROP? AND THEN NEXT THING YOU KNOW, NOBODY'S COMING TO THE SHELTER BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS THE SHELTER ONLY HAS 14 YEAR OLD DOGS AND YOU GO TO THIS OTHER BUSINESS IF YOU WANT A DOG THAT'S, THAT'S THAT, THAT, THAT REALLY, THAT YOU WANT TO, YOU KNOW, AS A PUPPY. SO I MEAN THAT, THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION THERE. YEP. SO MY, MY THOUGHT ON THIS ALONG WITH GETTING, GETTING MORE DETAILS THAT WE CAN CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A TRIAGE SITUATION. SO FIRST YOU STOP THE BLEEDING MM-HMM. AND THAT EASILY COULD BE JUST NO MORE. YEP. NO, NO MORE. UM, SO THERE WON'T BE ANY NEW ONES OPENING AND I THINK THAT COULD BE A FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD THING. AND THEN YEAH. IF, IF, UH, I WOULD ALSO BE INTERESTED IN, IN HEARING WHAT, UM, JEFF ASKED FOR ABOUT IF, IF THERE ARE BUSINESSES THAT HAVE ALREADY GONE THROUGH THAT TRANSITION, HOW THEY HAVE FARED AFTER THAT. UM, BECAUSE YEAH, IT JUST PUTTING THEM OUT OF BUSINESS IN A, YOU KNOW, BY SAYING, OH NO YOU'RE NOT, WE DIDN'T DO THIS. THAT'S, THAT'S NOT RIGHT. MM-HMM. . UM, SO I WOULD, I MEAN AT A MINIMUM I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US CLEARLY DEFINE AND PROHIBIT ANY FUTURE, UH, ZONING USE IN THE CITY OF GARLAND FOR RETAIL SALES OF, OF DOGS AND CATS. SO WE MAY TWEAK LATER, BUT YEP. SO TO THAT POINT WE'RE JUST PUTTING CHANGE IN THAT DEFINITION, ACHIEVE THAT THEN, AND THEN COME BACK LATER TALKING ABOUT SCALING BACK EXISTING OPERATIONS. CUZ IT'S LIKE CUT IT OFF. YEAH. IT, NO NEW ONES INITIALLY WITH CHANGING DEFINITION AND THEN WE COULD WORK ON MM-HMM. . YEP. MAKES SENSE. MM-HMM. . YEAH, I'M GOOD WITH THAT. IT'S JUST, I, I LIKE IF POSSIBLE TO SEE IF OTHER CITIES HAVE HAVE, UM, MOVED DOWN, APPROACHED IT FROM A DIFFERENT DIRECTION AND MAY SEE SOME HAZARDS IN OUR PATH THAT DON'T AUTOMATICALLY COME TO OUR MINDS, BUT, UM, YEAH. I, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE US MOVE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE ON THIS. THE BASIC, WHAT WE'VE GOT IS, IS ALL WE WANT FREEZE IT AND THEN GO FROM THERE. SO, SO THEN SHOULD WE GO AHEAD AND REPORT OUT TO COUNCIL UPDATING THIS DEFINITION HERE TO MOVE, CHANGE THE ZONING, TO ELIMINATE DOGS AND CATS? YES. CELLS. YEAH, I'D BE GOOD WITH THAT. AND THEN WE COULD LOOK AT THIS SEPARATE ISSUE. MM-HMM. . OKAY. VERY GOOD. I THINK WE'LL DO THAT THEN WE'LL MOVE TO CHANGE THIS DEFINITION FIRST, ELIMINATING CATS AND DOGS AND THEN WE WILL HAVE SUBSEQUENT MEETINGS ABOUT THE NINE OTHER CITIES IN TEXAS THAT HAVE ALREADY LOOKED AT IT AND TRYING TO REDUCE, ELIMINATE THE USE OR THE EXISTING, THAT LATTER PART. BRING BACK TO COMMITTEE. CORRECT. OKAY. MM-HMM. PERFECT. COUNCIL OR COMMITTEE IN AGREEMENT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALL IN FAVOR? ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD. WELL, THAT WAS THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA THEN FOR THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICE COMMITTEE FOR DECEMBER 12TH, 2022. WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 4 58. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.