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THANK YOU.[Community Services Committee on March 7, 2023.]
GOOD AFTERNOON.IT IS TUESDAY, MARCH 7TH, 2023.
THIS IS A MEETING OF THE COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE.
UM, IT IS 4:00 PM AND WITH ME ARE COMMITTEE MEMBERS, ED MOORE, MARGARET LT, AND, UH, COUNCILMAN, UH, ROBERT JOHN SMITH, AS WELL AS VARIOUS STAFF MEMBERS WHO WILL INTRODUCE THEMSELVES AS WE GO.
THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM THE FEBRUARY 7TH, 2023 MEETING COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING? YES, MY MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING.
UM, WE DO NOT SEEM TO HAVE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HERE.
DO WE HAVE ANYBODY SIGNED UP? NOAM? OKAY.
ITEM THREE IS TO DISCUSS MULTI-FAMILY PROPERTY AC REQUIREMENTS AND COMMITTEE.
LET ME JUST KIND OF BRING YOU UP TO SPEED ON THIS.
WE HAD LAST MONTH, UM, VOTED TO GO AHEAD AND REPORT THIS OUT.
AND JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME, SOME BACKGROUND, BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER IF WE DISCUSSED THIS AT THE TIME, UM, IN EARLY JANUARY AS WE WERE DISCUSSING THIS, I SENT A BULLET POINT LIST OF THE MAIN ITEMS THAT WE WERE CONSIDERING SENT THEM TO, UM, THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION OF GREATER DALLAS FOR COMMENT BEFORE WE PROCEEDED ANY FURTHER AND FEEDBACK, CONCERNS, WHATEVER.
AND I GOT A, UM, THANKS AND DIDN'T HAVE ANY RESPONSE.
SO, UM, SO WE WENT AHEAD AND WENT THROUGH IT, SENT IT OUT.
I THEN AS A SECOND STEP SENT THE DRAFT ORDINANCE THAT WE WERE SENDING OUT, UH, TO THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION OF GREATER DALLAS.
AND THIS TIME I GOT SOME RESPONSES, UM, SOME OF WHICH WERE, I THINK VERY HELPFUL.
AND SO, UH, I ASKED TO HAVE THIS PULLED BACK AND NOT REPORTED OUT UNTIL WE SAT DOWN AND WENT OVER THE, UM, REQUESTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE MEMBERS OF THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION OF GREATER DALLAS.
AND MR. ENGLAND HAS, UM, YOU'LL HAVE A, A DRAFT ORDINANCE IN FRONT OF YOU THAT'S GOT HIGHLIGHTING.
AND I'LL JUST TELL YOU QUICKLY, UM, THE, THE REQUESTS AND SUGGESTIONS, UM, THAT I SENT MR. ENGLAND FOR HIM TO BRING TO US TODAY AND DISCUSS, UM, THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION ASKED, UM, THAT WE ADD LANGUAGE EXEMPTING, UM, APARTMENT PROPERTIES FROM ANY OF THESE REGULATIONS REQUIRING, UM, TEMPORARY COOLING OR A CERTAIN TIMELINE TO GET FIXED IN THE EVENT OF A DISASTER THAT WAS BEYOND THEIR CONTROL, LIKE A COMPLETE LOSS OF POWER, SO FORTH.
UM, THEY ASKED FOR A DEFINITION REGARDING ACCEPTABLE TEMPORARY COOLING.
SO IF WE SAY IT HAS TO BE AT, YOU KNOW, UH, NO HOTTER THAN 85 DEGREES INSIDE SAID, WHERE IS THAT MEASURED AND DOES IT HAVE TO BE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE PROPERTY? BECAUSE OUR TEMPORARY COOLING UNITS WON'T NECESSARILY DO THAT, THAT FOR AN ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD IT CAN DO IT FOR AN AREA.
SO THEY ASKED US TO DEFINE IT BY AREA SO THAT THEY WOULD KNOW WHAT THEY'RE BEING REQUIRED TO DO.
AND, UM, THEY ALSO, UM, JUST, JUST IN THE LAST COUPLE DAYS ASKED ABOUT, UM, US ADDING IN A, A NOTICE THAT THAT, UM, RESIDENTS WHO WERE GOING TO GO OUT AND PURCHASE THEIR OWN PORTABLE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GIVE SOME KIND OF NOTICE TO THE MANAGER SO THEY WOULDN'T BE HIT TAKEN BY SURPRISE, UM, AT THE END OF THE MONTH WHEN THEY GET PRESENTED WITH AN UNKNOWN NUMBER OF, UH, RECEIPTS TO BE REIMBURSED.
SO THAT'S NOT IN THIS DRAFT ORDINANCE, CUZ THAT CAME IN LATE.
BUT, UM, MR. ENGLAND, WILL YOU GO THROUGH, UH, THIS, WE HAD ALREADY GONE OVER ALL OF THIS EXCEPT, UM, THE PARTS THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED AND OH, AND THERE IS, UH, THE OTHER THING I DIDN'T SAY IS THEY ASKED INITIALLY TO MO FOR US TO MOVE THE, UH, TIMELINE FROM HAVING THIS DONE WITHIN 24 HOURS, YOU KNOW, EITHER RESTORED OR, OR PROVIDED WITH TEMPORARY COOLING TO 48 HOURS.
AND THEN AS OF YESTERDAY, UH, THEY ASKED IF IT COULD BE MOVED TO 72 HOURS, WHICH WE WILL DISCUSS.
UM, AND IN ADDITION, UM, JUST TODAY I FOUND OUT THAT WE HAVE A HOUSE BILL WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH THIS SESSION THAT IS ALSO, UH, SIMILARLY ADDRESSING THESE SAME ISSUES.
AND WE'LL GO OVER THAT AS WE GET TO IT.
BUT FIRST, MR. ENGLAND, WILL YOU WALK US THROUGH THE, THE DRAFT THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US? SURE.
UM, IF YOU'LL TURN TO PAGE TWO OF THE DRAFT THAT WAS PROVIDED FOR YOU, YOU'LL SEE IN, UM, SECTION FIVE, SUBSECTION C HIGHLIGHTED PORTIONS THAT SAYS GREATER THAN 48 HOURS.
AND THIS IS, UM, UM, THE DISCUSSION.
THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME FOR THE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER 48 HOURS IS A LONG ENOUGH TIME PERIOD FOR THE, UM, PROPERTY OWNERS, MANAGERS, OR MANAGEMENT COMPANIES TO, UM, UM, PROVIDE REFRIGERATED EQUIPMENT.
AND SO THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME FOR
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THAT.I PUT IN 48 HOURS, BUT AGAIN, Y'ALL MAY WANT 72, YOU MAY WANT LONGER.
UM, I THINK THAT'S REASONABLE AND THAT WAY WE CAN TAKE THIS PIECE BY PIECE.
YOU HAVE HERE A COPY OF, UM, AN ARTICLE ABOUT A HOUSE BILL THAT'S WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH THIS, THE, UH, LEGISLATURE RIGHT NOW AN AND ADDRESSING THESE SAME THINGS, WHICH IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN, THEY MAY HAVE DONE IT BEFORE.
I HAVE NOT SEEN IT UNTIL I SAW THIS ONE, AND IT WAS ONLY FILED THE 21ST OF FEBRUARY.
SO I DON'T THINK IT HAS MADE MUCH PROGRESS YET.
THE, THE BASIC DIFFERENCES HERE, ONE, SOME OF THEM ARE, IT'S, THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING THE SAME THING WE'RE TRYING TO DO, WHICH IS TO SAY, APARTMENTS THAT HAVE THEIR AIR CONDITIONING GO OUT ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME KIND OF RULES TO SAY THEY'VE GOTTA GET THIS FIXED OR PROVIDE TEMPORARY COOLING OR PROVIDE ALTERNATE HOUSING WITHIN X PERIOD OF TIME.
THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT THEY HAVE CHOSEN IN THE DRAFT OF THIS BILL IS FIVE DAYS.
SO, UM, WHICH IS A LONG TIME IN THE SUMMER TO BE WITHOUT AIR CONDITIONING.
HOWEVER, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THIS, THE HOUSE BILL IS LOOKING AT.
NOW, WE ORIGINALLY STARTED AT 24 HOURS.
THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION OF GREATER DALLAS ASKED FOR 48 HOURS.
AND THEN AFTER SEEING THIS, THEY ASKED FOR 72 HOURS.
SO REALLY WE'VE GOT, UM, WE'VE GOT A KIND OF A WIDE ARRAY.
SO WHY DON'T WE DISCUSS WHAT WE THINK IS A REASONABLE TIME BEFORE SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS FALL.
LIKE, UH, POTENTIALLY WHAT, WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS IT SAYS YOU EITHER NEED TO REPAIR THE AIR CONDITIONING IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME OR PROVIDE COOLING TEMPORARILY IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME OR PROVIDE ALTERNATE HOUSING.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE TIME THAT THE BOOM FALLS.
SO, WELL, IT SEEMS TO, TO ME THAT IF THIS IS A BILL THAT IS GOING THROUGH THE HOUSE PRESENTLY, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT SOME RESEARCH HAS BEEN DONE, THAT SOME BACKGROUND HAS BEEN, BEEN DONE TO, UH, SUGGEST THAT PARTICULAR TIMEFRAME.
AND FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY TO YOU THAT, UH, I THINK THAT IT WAS A WONDERFUL JOB THAT YOU DID OF SENDING IT TO THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION TO LET THEM TAKE A LOOK AT THE ENTIRE PACKAGE BEFORE WE WENT FORWARD WITH IT.
BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME OF OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND BE WHAT WOULD'VE HAPPENED IF, IF IT HAD GONE TO, UH, COUNCIL, SOME OF THEM SITTING HERE IN THIS ROOM WOULD'VE PROBABLY HAVE CAUGHT THAT AND WE WOULD'VE HAD TO GO, GONE BACK AND REDONE SOME THINGS.
SO WITH THAT, UM, NAMELY ROBERT SMITH.
BUT, UH, WITH THAT, UH,
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT IN THE HOUSE, THERE'S NO SENSE OF US LOOKING AT ANYTHING, UH, LESS THAN, SO.
WELL, I WILL SAY IN THE CONTENT OF THE ARTICLE, THEY BASICALLY SAY THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANY RESEARCH ON THIS
OH, IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING? OKAY.
YOU WOULD LIKE TO THANK THIS HOW BILL? I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT I REALLY WOULD MY EXPERIENCE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AT THIS POINT? WELL, FOR, FOR US, WE'RE HERE.
AND IT'S NOT VERY FAR ALONG, IT'S NOT ON ANYBODY'S HIGH PRIORITY RIGHT NOW IN, IN THIS SESSION.
SO THIS MAY SINK UNDER THE WAVES LIKE SO MANY THINGS DO.
BUT, UM, THAT BEING THE CASE, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE SAY.
IF I WERE LIVING IN AN APARTMENT AND MY AIR CONDITION IS GOING UP, I WON'T MIND A COUPLE OF MINUTES AFTER IT WENT OFF.
SO, UH, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO SOME DISCRETIONARY HOURS HERE AND GO WITH IT.
BUT WE COULD, UM, ASK CHIEF LEE ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES WITH THIS.
I'M SURE THAT THEY'VE HAD RESPONSE CALLS TO PLACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE WITHOUT AIR CONDITIONING AND THAT'S CAUSED A PROBLEM.
HE, HE WOULD BE THE PERSON I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE THE MOST KNOWLEDGE IN THIS CASE.
UM, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I, I WOULD BE FINE GOING SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 48 AND 72 HOURS.
UM, I, I'M FINE WITH 48 HOURS.
IN FACT, I WAS ACTUALLY FINE WITH 24.
SO I, BUT I DO WANT TO ALLOW THE APARTMENT MANAGEMENT TO HAVE SOME TIME TO ACTUALLY GET THAT DONE.
IF THEY'RE GOING OUT AND PURCHASING A LARGE AMOUNT OF UNITS FOR COOLING, UM, THEY COULD RUN INTO MANY PROBLEMS TRYING TO GET HUNDREDS AT A TIME.
SO, UM, I THINK EXTRA TIME WOULD BE A ALLOWABLE.
WELL, I'LL TELL YOU WHERE I, WHERE I LANDED WITH THIS WAS KIND OF ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
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THIS ROUGH DRAFT THAT'S GOING THROUGH THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW IS SAYING FIVE DAYS.I'M THINKING 72 HOURS, I'LL GO WITH 72 HOURS.
AND AND THE THING IS THAT THAT DOESN'T SAY AT 72 HOURS THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE ALTERNATE HOUSING AT 72 HOURS.
THEY EITHER HAVE TO HAVE THE AIR CONDITIONING REPAIRED OR THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE ALTERNATE TEMPORARY COOLING OR THEY DO NOTHING.
THEN THEY NEED TO OFFER, UM, ALTERNATE HOUSING.
AND THEY'RE THE WE ALSO IN YOUR, WHICH WILL GO ON AND SEE, THEY ALSO, UM, ALLOW THE TENANTS TO BE ABLE TO GO AND PURCHASE AT THE MANAGEMENT'S EXPENSE THEIR OWN PORTABLE AIR CONDITIONING UNITS, UM, TO KIND OF TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.
SO, AND, AND BRIAN DID SOMETHING INTERESTING FURTHER ON HERE WITH THE, THE TEMPERATURE DIFFERENTIAL AND EVERYTHING, WHICH WE MAY OR MAY NOT NEED.
BUT, UM, SO LET, LET'S JUST PAUSE THERE.
IS, IS 72 HOURS REASONABLE TO US AS FAR AS A RECOMMENDATION? YES.
AND IF THE STATE TRUMPS US, THE STATE TRUMPS US AND IT'LL BE WHAT THEY SAY, BUT MM-HMM.
UM, SUBSECTION I, YOU'LL SEE IT TALKS ABOUT PROVIDING EACH WELL UNIT WITH A REFRIGERATOR AREA UNIT THAT IS CAPABLE OF MEETING THE MINIMUM STANDARDS SET BY SUBSECTION A IN AT LEAST ONE HABITABLE LIVING AREA OR BEDROOM.
AND THIS IS ADDRESSING THE IDEA THAT, OKAY, IT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT TO FIND THESE, UM, PORTABLE AIR REFRIGERATION UNITS TO REFRIGERATE AN ENTIRE APARTMENT.
UM, BUT YOU COULD AT LEAST IN THIS, IN THIS TEMPORARY PERIOD OF HAVING THESE PORTABLE AIR UNITS COME IN WHILE THE OTHER ONE'S BEING FIXED, YOU COULD HAVE A PLACE TO SHELTER WITH COOL AIR IN AT LEAST ONE ROOM OF THE HOUSE.
AND, UM, UM, THAT'S WHAT WAS MY, THAT WAS MY THINKING THERE TO ADDRESS ONE OF THE CONCERNS OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX, THE MANAGEMENT.
I DON'T REMEMBER THE ASSOCIATION THAT'S YEAH, IT WAS THE ASSOCIATION AND, AND THAT WAS THEIR, THEY, THEY JUST, THEY SAID WE, WE HAVE PORTABLE UNITS WE KEEP FOR EMERGENCY COOLING, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE GOING AND MEASURING THROUGHOUT A 1200 OR 1400 SQUARE FOOT APARTMENT, WE CAN'T GUARANTEE THAT THE PORTABLE UNITS WE PUT IN A CERTAIN PLACE ARE GOING TO HIT ALL THOSE CORNERS AND WE DON'T WANNA BE IN VIOLATION.
SO THEY ASKED FOR THAT DEFINITION.
SO, UM, LET'S PAUSE THERE AS WELL.
IS THAT A REASONABLE DEFINITION? UM, MR. SMITH, WOULD YOU, I THINK YOUR MIC IS ALREADY ON, SO YES, MA'AM.
FIRST IS, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHERE THE DRAFT BILL IS AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THIS IS WAY MORE THAN WHAT I HAD REFERRED IN, SO I NEED TO CATCH UP.
AND SO IT WAS SORT OF A FALL THROUGH.
BUT, BUT THAT, UH, ASIDE, ONE POTENTIAL WAY OUT OF THIS IS THAT IF THE MULTI-FAMILY COMMUNITY IS PROVIDING COOLING UNITS, I WOULD SAY THAT IT NEEDS TO BE COOLING UNIT THAT IS CAPABLE OF COOLING THE LARGEST ROOM IN A UNIT.
AND SO THAT, THAT WOULD DEPEND ON THE UNIT SIZE.
YOU, YOU COULD SAY IT'S A LIVING AREA, YOU COULD SAY IT'S A BEDROOM, BUT YOU COULD JUST SAY WHATEVER THE LARGEST ROOM IS, YOU NEED TO HAVE A COOLING UNIT THAT HAS THAT CAPABILITY, UH, JUST FROM A SPEC UH, STANDPOINT.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT, I MEAN, CUZ REALLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS AVOID A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, RIGHT? RIGHT.
AND SO IF WE HAVE AT LEAST ONE ROOM IN THE, IN THE APARTMENT, UH, THAT IS COOL ENOUGH THAT YOU CAN PUT ELDERLY AND A BABY IN AND SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU'RE GONNA DODGE THAT, THAT WORST CASE SCENARIO.
MY ONLY CONCERN WITH THAT IS ONE OF THE SPECIFICS FROM THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION IS THEY HAVE COOLING UNITS AND, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE LIMITED, UM, LIMITED CAPACITY CAPACITY.
I'M SORRY, I'M ENGINEERING THIS
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AND AGAIN, I'M JUST, SINCE I HAVE A PORTABLE COOLER AND HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH IT, RIGHT.UM, THAT, THAT STILL IS CONCERNING TO ME BECAUSE THERE ARE STUDIO APARTMENTS.
AND I JUST, I DON'T WANNA PUT THEM IN A NO WIN SITUATION.
AND THE, IN AT LEAST ONE HABITABLE LIVING AREA OR BEDROOM IS FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO GIVE THEM A COOL DOWN SPOT.
I'M NOT IN, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IT, IT IS SAYING IT THE LARGEST, BUT, UM, IS TOO WEAK IN THAT, IN THAT CASE.
IS MY SUGGESTION TOO WEAK TO, TO ACHIEVE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE? UM, OR IS IT TOO, IT'S TOO RIGID BECAUSE IT, IT COULD BE BEYOND THE CAPACITY OF THE COOLING UNITS THAT THEY KEEP FOR THESE KIND OF EMERGENCIES.
AND IT, IT'S NOT ADAPTABLE WHAT THEY HAVE NOW.
THEY CAN ENSURE THAT A LIVING AREA OR A BEDROOM GETS ADEQUATELY COOLED TO THE TEMPERATURE WE CALL OUT.
BUT IF WE SAY THE LARGEST, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO TURN WHICH, WHICH ROOM IS THE LARGEST? AND THEN AT THAT POINT, WHAT IS THE CAPACITY FOR COOLING THAT? OKAY.
SO WITH THE, UM, I GOT THIS HOLD ON.
OKAY, SO THE, WE'RE SAYING THESE, THESE COMPLEXES ALREADY HAVE PORTABLE COOLING UNITS.
THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION ONES WHO ARE MEMBERS, THEY KEEP THEM FOR EMERGENCY, THEY OWN THEM AND THEY DISPATCH THEM QUICKLY.
SO THEY'VE GOT MEMBERSHIP IN THIS ORGANIZATION AND THEY CAN MOVE THOSE UNITS OUT.
AND WHAT ABOUT, I I KINDA WORRY ABOUT HOW WE WANT TO DEFINE THE ONES THAT DON'T, YOU KNOW, HOW DO, HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE TACKLE THOSE? BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF THE MEMBER, ALL THE, OF THE OFFENDING PROPERTIES, I'M GONNA GO OUT ON LIMB AND SAY THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT SPENDING MONEY ON MEMBERSHIPS EITHER OR CHILLER TOWERS.
BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT, UH, ISSUE.
I IF IT'S A PUBLIC HEALTH THING, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU.
UM, IT, IT, UH, IT WAS GOING BACK TO THE WHOLE HOW DO YOU MEASURE THE TEMPERATURE? DOES IT HAVE TO BE UNIFORM THROUGHOUT THE, THE UNIT? AND, AND HOW DO YOU DEFINE WHAT, WHAT SUCCESS IS IN THAT CASE? AND I THINK I WAS LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER TO THAT, BUT I DON'T HAVE ONE EITHER.
SO I'M GONNA SHUT UP NOW AND LET YOU GUYS KEEP GOING.
WELL, HE DOES BRING UP A GOOD POINT BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A STUDIO APARTMENT AND MAYBE THE ONLY ROOM IN THE APARTMENT IS A BATHROOM, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO REQUIRE THAT THEY HAVE THE AIR CONDITIONER IN THE BATHROOM.
PLUS IT PROBABLY DOESN'T HAVE A WINDOW IN IT.
BUT THAT'S NOT A HABITABLE ROOM JUST AS HABITABLE.
I MEAN,
UM, ED, DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS? YOU WANNA ADD? I DO.
AND IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION THAT WE'RE, WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE IN THAT, ARE WE GOING TO SAY EVEN IF WE WITH THE LARGEST ROOM, ARE WE GONNA TELL 'EM BUT MAKE SURE ALL THE DOORS OR THE OTHER ROOMS ARE CLOSED
AND THEN IF YOU HAVE A STUDIO APARTMENT, OF COURSE YOU'RE STILL, I MEAN, YOU'RE REALLY COOLING THE WHOLE APARTMENT AT THAT POINT.
THIS IS A VERY, UH, AND WE'RE TRYING TO REALLY DEFINE WHAT TEMPERATURE HAS TO BE MAINTAINED.
WE HAVE DONE, I GOTTA GIVE THIS 180 5 DEGREES OR 20 DEGREES BELOW.
OKAY, SO IF WE'RE AT 85, 85, 85 85, THAT'S A, THAT'S STILL WARM, BUT, UH, SUSTAINABLE, I'D HAVE TO HAVE MORE INFORMATION HERE BECAUSE AGAIN, WE'RE PUTTING, WE'RE PUTTING THE APARTMENT IN A VERY PRECARIOUS SITUATION BY UNFOLDING THAT TYPE OF RESTRICTION ON THEM.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO, A WIN-WIN SITUATION HERE.
WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, UH, THE APARTMENT DWELLERS ARE BEING KEPT COOL, BUT IT'S NOT SO UNSUSTAINABLE THAT THE APARTMENT MANAGER'S NOT ABLE TO ACHIEVE THE GOAL.
THIS PORTION OF THE ROOM DEFINITION WAS A DIRECT REQUEST AND SUGGESTION FROM THE, THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION OF GREATER DALLAS.
SO THIS IS SOMETHING THEY ROUTINELY DO.
WHAT HAVE THEY SAID? WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO, WHAT HAVE THEY SAID? WHAT ARE THEY WANTING TO, WHAT WOULD THEY, UH, THINK TO BE FAVORABLE? WELL, THIS IS WHAT I SAID.
NO, I MEAN, IN THE WAY OF THAT ONE ROOM THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THEY ASKED ABOUT US TO DEFINE A PORTION INSTEAD OF THE ENTIRE UNIT.
TO DEFINE A PORTION THAT WOULD MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS IF THEY KEPT THAT COOL.
THAT'S WHY THIS WAS ADDED IN THERE.
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THEY, THIS WASN'T THEIR SUGGESTION, BUT WERE THEY THINKING ABOUT A STUDIO APARTMENT? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT, BUT OKAY.THEY WERE SAYING, AS OPPOSED TO AN ENTIRE, HE MENTIONED A 1200 SQUARE FOOT UNION UNIT IS THE EXAMPLE HE GAVE ME.
SO HE JUST SAID, A PORTION OF THE TOTAL LIVING SPACE.
COULD YOU BETTER DEFINE WHAT AREA COULD BE KEPT COOL TO THIS DEGREE WITHOUT BEING IN VIOLATION OF THIS ORDINANCE? SO THIS WAS WHAT I'M ASKING NOW IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WE, WE DON'T KNOW THE QUESTIONS
NOW THAT IT HAS COME UP IN THIS DISCUSSION, MAYBE WE NEED TO GO BACK AND ASK THEM, GIVE US BETTER CLARIFICATION ON WHAT IT IS THAT YOU ARE ASKING SUCH THAT WE DON'T, DON'T GO PUTTING SOMETHING ON PAPER THAT'S STILL NOT GOING TO MEET THEIR REQUIREMENTS.
I I FEEL LIKE THIS IS THOROUGH ENOUGH.
UM, THAT WELL, YOU, YOU HAVE TO COOL A ROOM IN THE HOUSE FOR THESE PEOPLE TO LIVE IN IF THERE'S NO AIR CONDITIONING.
AND, AND I THINK THAT THAT CLEARLY IS, IS CLEARLY DEFINED WITH THIS SENTENCE ARE, UM, AND THAT WE'RE, THAT WE'RE EVEN, WHICH SENTENCE ARE YOU SPEAKING OF? UH, IN AT LEAST ONE HABITABLE LIVING AREA OR BEDROOM.
SO IT'S IN SECTION C, C ONE C.
GO GO TO A BEDROOM OR LIVING ROOM.
I I, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT IMPLIES.
AND I, I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S GOOD.
I'VE, I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD BE ABLE TO HUDDLE IN ONE ROOM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND GET RELIEF.
I'M GOING BACK NOW TO, UM, COUNCIL MEMBER SMITH THOUGH.
HE'S SAYING, WELL, LET'S JUST ASK THE LARGEST ROOM IN THE, IN THE, IN, IN THE COMPLEX.
BUT THAT PUTS YOU HAVING TO MEASURE OR DETERMINE THAT IF WE MAKE THIS TOO FUSSY MM-HMM.
IT CANNOT BE THIS COMPLICATED.
IN FACT, UM, I JUST WAS DOUBLE CHECKING.
I SENT THIS DRAFT BACK TO THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION.
THEY SAID, THANK YOU, THIS LOOKS REASONABLE.
SO I, AS, AS FAR AS THE PORTION, CUZ I WENT SPECIFICALLY OVER THIS.
SO THEY FOUND THIS REASONABLE, THAT PIECE OF INFORMATION WOULD'VE BEEN VERY HELPFUL AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DISCUSSION.
WELL, WHAT THEY THINK REASONABLE ISN'T NECESSARILY ALWAYS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO EITHER.
SO, BUT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN OKAY.
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH MADAM CHAIR.
SO ARE WE OKAY WITH, UH, C1? YES.
UH, C2, UM, IN THE EVENT, THERE ARE NO REFRIGERATED AIR UNITS AVAILABLE FOR THE DWELLING UNIT WITHIN 72 HOURS.
AND THE TEMPERATURE INSIDE THE DWELLING UNIT LODGING ROOM EXCEEDS 95 DEGREES.
THEY'RE TO PROVIDE THE HOTEL OR MOTEL ACCOMMODATIONS AT THE OWNER'S, MANAGERS, OR MANAGEMENT COMPANY'S EXPENSE UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE MINIMUM STANDARDS SET FORTH HERE IN OR MET.
AND I, I, THIS IS SOMETHING 95 DEGREES IS WHAT I ARBITRARILY PULLED OUT.
RECOGNIZING THAT THE REQUIREMENT FOR THEM TO PROVIDE TEMPORARY LODGING IS GOING TO BE A FINANCIAL, AN EXTREME FINANCIAL BURDEN ON THEM.
AND IT PROBABLY SHOULD BE A LAST RESORT.
AND MANY OF THESE APARTMENT COMPLEX MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT AT ALL.
AND SO, UM, 95 DEGREES IS QUITE WARM.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S, UM, UM, UM, YOU'RE NOT GETTING TO THE A HUNDRED DEGREES THAT YOU OFTEN SEE IN TEXAS AND IT'S, UM, UM, THE INSIDE OF THE DWELLER UNIT.
Y'ALL MIGHT WANT SOMETHING ELSE.
RICK MIGHT BE ABLE TO TELL YOU A BETTER TEMPERATURE, BUT OH, HE IS.
HERE HE COMES, HE'S GOING TO
HE'S GOT A BETTER SUGGESTION THAN THE LAWYER.
GOOD TO THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR.
UH, COMMITTEE, RICK BARKER, CODE COMPLIANCE.
UM, IN, IN REVIEWING THIS, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME GO BACK TO THE, THE, THE 72 HOURS THAT WAS OUR ORIGINAL POLICY AND ORDINANCE TO BEGIN WITH.
SO I KNOW WE WENT FROM 24 TO 48.
WE'RE, WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
UH, WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH 24, WE WOULD REALLY BE COMFORTABLE WITH 48.
BUT YOU KNOW, EITHER WAY, WHAT, WHATEVER YOU PREFER.
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THING, THAT IS A, AND I'D ASK BRIAN BEFORE THE MEETING, YOU KNOW, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT AT THE 95 DEGREES, UM, WOULD WE STILL BE ABLE TO INTERPRET THIS AS ENFORCEABLE EVEN PRIOR TO THE 95 DEGREE SITUATION? BECAUSE AGAIN, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TAKING CARE OF THE TENANT.UH, WE WANT THIS TO BE AS REASONABLE AS POSSIBLE, BUT, UM, BUT TO REALLY HAVE A, A, A PREFERENCE, UM, HAVING MAYBE A THIRD DEGREE, UH, THRESHOLD MIGHT BE MAKE IT FUSSY OR EVEN MORE COMPLICATED.
UM, BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT THAT AREA OF 85 DEGREES, UH, AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA WAIT SEVERAL DAYS FOR IT TO COOK AND GET HOTTER AND HOTTER AND GET 95 DEGREES BEFORE WE CAN, BEFORE WE CAN REALLY ENCOURAGE THEM OR ENFORCE THEM TO GO GET SOMEONE, UH, A RELIEF AT A, AT A A, A SPECIAL ACCOMMODATION.
I'M, I MAY NOT BE GIVING YOU WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE REALLY AFTER, BUT AGAIN, UM, IF, IF YOU REMOVE THE 95 DEGREE, THAT GIVES IT A MORE CLEAR CUT TYPE SITUATION FOR US.
AND YEAH, THAT WAS MY CONCERN AS WELL.
IT'S LIKE AT, AT WHAT POINT DOES THAT WE'RE GIVING MULTIPLE TEMPERATURE THRESHOLDS, RIGHT? AND THE ONES THAT ARE 20 DEGREES BELOW OUTSIDE, THAT'S A TRAVELING NUMBER.
BUT, UM, AND INTO, INTO BRIAN'S POINT, I MEAN, IT, IT IS GONNA BE AN EXPENSIVE ENDEAVOR, UH, FOR THESE APARTMENT COMPLEXES TO MAKE SPECIAL ACCOMMODATIONS, BUT THEIR MOTIVATION WILL BE TO GET THESE UNITS UP AND, AND RUNNING TO GET THEM ALTERNATIVE MEASURES FOR RELIEF.
SO THAT, THAT'S THEIR MOTIVATION TO DO THAT.
SO TAKING OUT THE 95 DEGREES IN WHOLE AND JUST HAVING WITHIN 48 HOURS AS THE COMPLETE HIGHLIGHTED SENTENCE THERE.
72, 72, IS THAT YOUR 72 HOURS? SORRY, YES.
IS THAT YOUR RECOMMENDATION? YES.
AND, AND AN ALTERNATIVE TO THAT ALSO IS GO WITH HIS RECOMMENDATION, BUT EXTEND THAT 72 HOURS TO WHAT THIS LEGISLATURE IS R THE BILL THAT'S FILED TO A FIVE DAY PERIOD.
AND THAT WAY YOU BUILD IN A LITTLE CUSHION FOR THE EXTREME MEASURE OF REQUIRING THEM TO GET HOTEL ROOMS AND OTHER, UM, LIVING ARRANGEMENTS, UM MM-HMM.
SO AT 72 HOURS, IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT, THEN YOU HAVE TO GET, UM, UH, MOBILE UNITS IN THERE, UM, AIR CONDITIONING UNITS AT FIVE DAYS, HOWEVER MANY HOURS THAT IS, THEN YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR LODGING.
SO YOU COULD DO IT THAT WAY AS WELL.
AND JUST REMOVE THE TEMPERATURE.
UH, IN WHOLE, THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO INTO EVERY SINGLE APARTMENT ROOM AND MM-HMM.
AND, AND EXTENDING THE TIME BEFORE YOU PULL THE BIG, BIG TRIGGER, WHICH IS EXPENSIVE, ALTERNATE LODGING, EXTENDING THAT SECTION TO TO FIVE DAYS.
SO WE CAN, WE CAN KEEP 72 HOURS FOR THE EARLIER THINGS AND JUST EXTEND THE, UH, PROVIDE FOR HOTEL OR MOTEL ACCOMMODATIONS AT A FIVE DAY MARK.
AT WHAT POINT DOES THE TIME CLOCK BEGIN ONCE WE GIVE OFFICIAL NOTICE? OKAY, NOW HERE, HERE'S THE, HERE'S THE, YEAH.
I WAS ABOUT TO SEE, I WAS THINKING ABOUT A COUPLE OF DAYS.
WE, WE MAY NOT, WE MAY NOT GET NOTIFIED THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT'S RIGHT.
TWO DAYS OR TWO OR THREE DAYS.
BUT ONCE WE GET NOTIFICATION, UH, WE, WE, WE RESPOND TO THESE IMMEDIATELY.
THIS IS A, A VERY, UH, PRIORITY CALL FOR US.
SO, UH, WE WILL DEFINITELY, IF WE GET THE CALL AFTER HOURS, WE'LL BE OUT THERE FIRST THING THE NEXT DAY.
BUT IF WE GET IT DURING THE DAYTIME, UH, BEFORE FIVE O'CLOCK, WE, WE WILL BE THERE.
I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT SITUATION WE HAD OUT THERE.
UH, OF COURSE THAT WAS NOT A, UM, AIR CONDITIONING SITUATION, BUT SOMETIMES THEY CAN MAYBE DO A DAY, TWO DAYS BEFORE ANYONE JUST MM-HMM.
SO UNDER THAT UN, UNDER THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, IF YOU HAVE, LIKE, I HAVE A CHRONIC OFFENDER, UH, MULTI-FAMILY IN MY DISTRICT, SMALL ONE, AND THEIR AIR CONDITIONING'S GOING OUT ALL THE TIME.
AND THE PEOPLE, THE TENANTS THERE USUALLY WAIT UNTIL THE, ABOUT THREE DAYS BEFORE THEY CALL ME DESPERATE.
SO THEN THAT WOULD THEN START THE 72 HOURS WHERE THEY WOULDN'T, WHEN THEY NOTIFIED, WHEN, WHEN WE, WHEN WE GAVE OFFICIAL NOTICE TO THE, UH, SO THAT'S WHERE THE CLOCK WOULD START TICKING FOR THE FIRST 72 HOURS.
AND IT'S NOT PERFECT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, IT'S MORE PERFECT THAN WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS NOTHING,
[00:30:01]
UM, THAT, THAT IS PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE PROPERTY OWNERS TO ACTUALLY STEP UP AND DO THE RIGHT THING.AND AGAIN, I THINK, UH, RICK, I THINK YOU'VE SAID THAT IT'S ONLY ABOUT 10% OF OUR 240 MULTI-FAMILIES THAT WE REALLY HAVE THESE PROBLEMS WITH.
WELL, 10, 10% OF OUR TOTAL COMPLEXES NOW MM-HMM.
YOU KNOW, 10, 10% OF THE COMPLEXES.
BUT YEAH, IT IS A BUT WHEN, WHEN THEY GO DOWN, THE WHOLE, THE WHOLE COMPLEX GOES DOWN.
NOT JUST A BUILDING HERE OR THERE, IT'S THE WHOLE THING.
SO IT AFFECTS A LOT OF PEOPLE.
UM, AND BRIAN, THE, THE REQUEST FROM, UH, THE APARTMENT ASSOCIATION ABOUT POSSIBLY WORKING IN A REQUIREMENT FOR NOTICE, AND I WAS TRYING TO THINK, WHAT I WOULDN'T WANNA DO IS SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU, IF THEY DON'T, IF, IF THE TENANTS IN THEIR SWEATY CONDITION RUN OUT AND BUY A, A, A UNIT, A WINDOW UNIT AND PUT IT IN AND THEY FORGET IN THE HASTE TO GIVE ADVANCE NOTICE THAT THEY DON'T GET REIMBURSED, I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.
UM, SO COULD WE HAVE NOTIFICATION WITHIN THREE DAYS OR, OR SOME TIMEFRAME THAT THEY NEED TO NOTIFY THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT THEY ARE PURCHASING A HOW WOULD THAT WORK? JUST WEIGHING THE INTEREST OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS VERSUS THE TENANTS.
I'M TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT BECAUSE THE INTEREST OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, THE INTEREST ARE GOING TO BE FINANCIAL IN NATURE AND CONCERNS THAT THEY'RE GONNA GO OUT AND BUY THE CADILLAC OF RIGHT.
OF, UM, AIR CONDITIONING UNITS WHEN MAYBE THE PONTIAC MIGHT BE A MORE APPROPRIATE AIR CONDITIONING JUST AS EFFECTIVE MM-HMM.
AND SO I'M SURE, NO OFFENSE ANYBODY DRIVES PONTIACS BY THE WAY.
UM, UM, THAT WOULD BE, AND SO LET ME GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO THAT ONE AND I'LL COME UP WITH SOMETHING I THINK, AND I'LL EMAIL IT OUT TO Y'ALL, UM, ABOUT WHAT I THINK IS A GOOD NOTICE PROVISION THERE IS, AND I'LL TRY TO WEIGH THOSE INTERESTS AND FIGURE OUT SOMETHING.
THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING OUT THERE ALREADY.
I MAY NOT HAVE TO REINVENT THE WILL HERE, SO OKAY.
JUST WANNA BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY.
BUT WHEN, WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN DISTRESS, I, I HATE TO HAVE IT BE A GOTCHA, LIKE, WELL, SINCE YOU DIDN'T NOTIFY IN ADVANCE, YOU DON'T GET, YOU DON'T GET, UH, REIMBURSED RIGHT.
SO THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME BALANCED WAY TO DO THAT.
AND, AND IF I MAY ADD, UM, PART, PART OF THE FUZZINESS OF THIS IS, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHERE DO WE COME INTO PLAY HERE? UH, WE, WE TRY TO STAY OUT OF LEASING ARRANGEMENTS AND, AND AGREEMENTS AND DISAGREEMENTS BETWEEN OWNERS AND TENANTS AND MANAGEMENT AND TENANT.
UM, THE, THE PART OF THAT IS HOW ARE WE, HOW WOULD WE ENFORCE THAT IF A TENANT GOES AND BUYS A UNIT AND THEN APPROACHES MANAGEMENT DOWN THE ROAD AND THERE'S A, THERE'S A CONFLICT, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW ARE WE GOING TO COME INTO PLAY, GET IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT AND TRY TO ENFORCE SOMETHING? WE, UH, HONESTLY, WE WOULD LOVE TO STAY OUT OF THAT IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.
UH, BUT JUST FOR WHAT THAT'S WORTH THOUGHTS, MR. ATTORNEY? OH, IT'S A LOSERY
WE WOULDN'T BE ENFORCING THAT.
THE BEST WE COULD DO IS WRITE 'EM A CITATION BASED ON A COMPLAINT, A SWORN COMPLAINT FROM THE, UM, TENANT STATING THAT THEY PURCHASED THIS.
THEY A, THEY ASKED TO BE AN, THEY GAVE PROPER NOTICE, THEY ASKED TO BE INTRODUCED AND THEY FAILED.
AND THEN WE COULD GO RIGHT ON MY CITATION.
AND THEN PART OF THAT PLEA DEAL ON THE CITATION WOULD BE, UM, IF YOU REIMBURSE THEM, THEN WE'LL DROP THE CITATION, WHICH WOULD PROBABLY, THE CITATION WILL PROBABLY BE ABOUT, ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT AS AN AIR CONDITIONED UNIT.
BUT THAT WOULD BE THE BEST YOU COULD DO.
AND EVEN THEN THAT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE NUMBER ONE, GETTING THEM TO COOPERATE WITH A SWORN STATEMENT AND ACTUALLY SHOWING UP AND DOING ALL THAT, THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DO SO.
BUT IF THEY DON'T SHOW UP AND DO A A SWORN STATEMENT, THEN WE'RE OUT.
AND WE'RE NOT GONNA GO TRACK 'EM DOWN.
UM, RICK, DOES THAT ADDRESS YOUR CONCERNS IF WE, IF THAT WAS OUR ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM? UM, I MEAN IT'S A LONG TEDIOUS
BUT I MEAN, WE COULD, WE COULD CERTAINLY DO THAT, BUT IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL RIGHT.
SO WHAT ARE YOUR CONSIDERATIONS ABOUT SCRATCHING THE WHOLE TENANTS CAN GO BY THEIR OWN AIR CONDITIONING.
WE COULD LEAVE THAT TO THE TENANTS TO ARGUE WITH THEIR OWN LANDLORDS OVER WHERE ARE YOU READING? I'M NOT READING ANYTHING.
I WAS JUST, I THINK IT SHOULD BE UP TO THE OWNER TO PROVIDE THESE UNITS AND IT SHOULDN'T FALL UPON THE TENANT TO DO SO.
UM, IF THEY DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO GO OUT AND BUY THEIR OWN UNIT TO MAKE THEMSELVES MORE COMFORTABLE,
[00:35:01]
THAT'S MONEY THAT THEY CAN SPEND ON THEIR OWN.UM, BUT THIS IS UP TO THE OWNER TO PROVIDE COOLING, AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD LEAVE IT TOTALLY UP TO THEM.
I THINK THE COUNCIL ONE MAKES A GOOD POINT BASED ON THIS.
AND WHAT I HAVEN'T SAID YET IS THE ISSUE ALSO WILL BECOME BETWEEN THE TENANT AND THE PROPERTY OWNER.
UM, AND SO THEN YOU'LL HAVE A TITLE ISSUE AS FAR AS WHO ACTUALLY OWNS THE UNIT.
AND SO, UM, I THINK, UM, UM, COUNCILWOMAN LUCK BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT THAT, UM, MAYBE IT MIGHT BE EASIER, CERTAINLY ON THE, FROM THE CODE ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE, IT'D BE EASIER BEFORE WE REMOVE THE PROVISION.
THEY CAN GO OUT AND GET THEIR OWN RIGHT.
UM, IF THEY WANNA GO OUT AND GET THEIR OWN FINE, BUT IT'S YOURS, YOU OWN IT.
AND IT'S BETWEEN IT AND, AND WHAT YOU WANNA DO IS REIMBURSEMENT WISE, YOU CAN TAKE THAT UP WITH YOU.
SO THAT'S WHAT I'M SUGGESTING.
THE WHOLE BOTTOM HALF OF FIVE C UH, UM, TWO TWO, MM-HMM.
THAT, THAT COMES AFTER THE, UH, MANAGEMENT NEEDING TO PROVIDE FOR A HOTEL OR MOTEL AFTER FIVE DAYS, HAVE PAST WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT SAYS IN THE EVENT THE PROPERTY MANAGER BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, IS UNABLE TO PROCURE A REFRIGERATED AIR UNIT, SO ON AND SO FORTH.
UM, THAT I WOULD JUST STRIKE THAT.
THAT, THAT'S JUST WAY TOO FUSSY AND DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE.
AND JUST MORE OF A HEADACHE FOR US.
SO LET ME ASK COMMITTEE, ARE YOU BOTH GOOD WITH THAT? YES.
UM, YOU WANT ME TO INTERVIEW? UM, GO AHEAD.
BASICALLY, INSTEAD OF IF, INSTEAD OF REQUIRING THAT IF THEY'RE UNABLE TO PROCURE AIR CONDITION UNITS WITHIN THE 72 HOUR PERIOD, UM, THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THE, THE TENANT MAY DESIRE TO GO OUT AND GET THEIR OWN UNIT.
IF THEY DO THAT, THEN THEY'LL BE BETWEEN THEM AND THE PROPERTY OWNER TO NEGOTIATE IF THEY'RE GONNA GET REIMBURSED OR NOT.
AND THAT WAY WE DON'T GET IN THE MIDDLE OF, OKAY, WHAT'S THE REIMBURSEMENT SCHEDULE? WHAT DO THE PAYMENTS LOOK LIKE TO BEING REIMBURSED? WHO OWNS THE UNIT AFTER YOU REIMBURSE 'EM? IS IT THE PROPERTY OWNERS OR IS THE TENANTS, ARE WE TRYING TO PUT ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN WRITING? WE'RE NO, WE'RE IN A LEAVE.
YOU SAID YOU'RE GONNA CUT OFF AT A PRELIM, RIGHT? OH, THAT'S WHERE I'LL SUMMARIZE AND WHAT WE'RE REALLY GOING TO DO.
THAT'S WHAT WHAT IF WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN, BASICALLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS IN THE EVENT THAT A PROPERTY OWNER IS NOT ABLE TO PROCURE AIR CONDITIONS WITHIN THE 72 HOURS AND THE FIVE DAY PERIOD COMES UP, THEN AT THAT POINT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PROVIDE THEM WITH, UM, ACCOMMODATIONS, ALTERNATIVE ACCOMMODATIONS, AND UM, UM, IF IN THE EVENT THAT BEFORE THAT FIVE DAY PERIOD, THE TENANT GOES OUT AND BUYS SOMETHING, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO BUY SOMETHING ON THEIR OWN AND IT'LL BE BETWEEN THEM TWO.
LET'S, LET'S, SO YOU STOPPED RIGHT AT THEY, THEY PROBABLY DON'T ONLY WILL DO WE EVEN WANT TO GET INTO THE PROPERTY OWNER CAN GO OUT AND BUY THEIR OWN UNIT? OH, DO WE? NO, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE GONNA STRIKE IT.
THAT'S WHAT, ALRIGHT, SO ONE MORE TIME.
HERE'S, HERE'S HOW, HERE'S HOW TO GO DOWN.
POWER GOES OUT, WE FIND OUT ABOUT IT.
THEY GO OUT, OUT AND GIVE NOTICE TO THE PROPERTY OWNER.
72 HOURS LATER, THE PROPERTY OWNER STILL HASN'T PROVIDED AIR CONDITION CUZ THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO PROCURE IT.
UM, UM, TWO TO FOUR DAYS PASS.
THEY NOW ARE REQUIRED TO, IF THEY STILL HAVEN'T PROVIDED A TEMPORARY AIR CONDITION, THEY'RE NOW PRO, UM, REQUIRED TO PROVIDE LODGING AND THAT'S IT.
AND IF THEY DON'T, THEN WE ISSUE A CITATION.
I'M, I'M LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE GIVE THESE RULES AND THINGS, BUT WHERE IS THE MEAT? WHAT'S THE ENFORCEMENT OF WHAT THEY, WHY THEY DIDN'T, WHEN THEY DIDN'T DO WHAT WE SAID THEY WERE GONNA DO, AND WE LEAVE THAT FAN TO THE PROPERTY OWNER AND THE TENANT? THAT'S CORRECT.
ARE YOU CLEAR ON THAT? I'M CLEAR.
CAN YOU DO A NEW DRAFT AND EMAIL IT TO US? YES, ABSOLUTELY.
AND THEN ON THE NEXT PAGE, PAGE THREE, YOU'LL SEE SUBSECTION D AND THAT'S THE EXCEPTION THAT THEY ASKED FOR.
AND INSTEAD OF THEY, THE PROPERTY, UH, MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATION ASKED FOR IN CASES OF EMERGENCIES.
AND I DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO THE DISCUSSION OR ARGUMENT ABOUT WHAT'S AN EMERGENCY.
DOES THAT MEAN SOMETHING THAT'S DECLARED BY THE GOVERNOR, BY THE MAYOR, OR IS IT SOMETHING ELSE? AND SO I JUST PUT IN THERE A GENERAL STATEMENT THAT SAID, LISTEN, IF THEY LOSE POWER AND IT'S NOT THE FAULT OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, MEANING THEY DIDN'T PAY THEIR UTILITY
[00:40:01]
BILL.UM, CUZ I KNOW HOW KEVIN IS ABOUT THESE, ABOUT THOSE THAT UTILITY BILLS
UM, THEN, UM, UM, THE SUBSECTION DOESN'T APPLY.
AND SO IF IF THERE'S AN EMERGENCY WE'RE NOT IN EMERGENCY AND THE POWER JUST GOES OUT AND IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT, THEN ALL OF THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM.
WHAT ABOUT IN A CASE WHERE THERE IS A POWER OUTAGE, BUT THAT CAUSES SOME KIND OF MALFUNCTION IN THEIR SYSTEM AND THEN ONCE POWER IS RESTORED, THEIR SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK, THEN DO WE DEFAULT TO THE 72 HOUR FIVE DAY THING? MM-HMM.
IS THAT WOULD THEN BECOME A REPAIR.
SO YOU'RE GONNA REDRAFT THIS YEP.
COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF NOTIFICATION THING.
I DON'T IF AND IF, IF THERE ISN'T, I DON'T THINK I'LL NEED A NOTIFICATION NOW THAT WE'VE DECIDED THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING, OH WAIT, WE'RE DONE WITH THAT.
THEY'VE SAVED ME A LOT OF WORK TODAY.
IT'S INVOLVED EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF WHAT'S NORMALLY HAPPENING IN HERE.
NORMALLY I GO AWAY WITH A LOT OF HOMEWORK, SO.
WELL, SOME OF US NEED A LOT OF WORK, SOME OF US HERE, BUT THE NEXT THING COMING UP THAT MAY, THAT MAY, THAT'S CORRECT.
WELL, WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO THE DRAFT AND THEN HOPEFULLY WE CAN GIVE THIS ONE MORE RUN BY, UM, THE BEGINNING OF NEXT MONTH.
AND THEN GO AHEAD AND GET IT OUT BEFORE THE COUNCIL, BEFORE THE BIG COUNCIL CHANGEOVER.
WE ARE NOW TO ITEM FOUR, DISCUSS PET STORE ORDINANCE AND, UH, COMMITTEE.
THIS IS, WE, WE'VE HAD SO MANY PET STORE RELATED THINGS LATELY.
THEY'RE STARTING TO BLEND TOGETHER.
SO WE ALREADY DISCUSSED THE, UM, UH, ANIMAL SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
WE DISCUSSED THE PET STORE INSPECTIONS, UM, CHANGE.
WE ALREADY EARLIER APPROVED THE ZONING CHANGE CITYWIDE TO TAKE RETAIL PET STORES, UM, THAT SELL CATS AND DOGS, UH, MAKE THAT NO LONGER, UM, A VIABLE, UH, ZONING RIGHT IN THE ENTIRE CITY OF GARLAND.
THIS IS WHAT'S BEEN CALLED THE, UM, THE DALLAS ORDINANCE BECAUSE THIS IS THE ORDINANCE THAT DALLAS, UH, PASSED LAST YEAR, I BELIEVE, UM, THAT BASICALLY SAYS THAT RETAIL PET STORES ARE PROHIBITED ENTIRELY IN THE ENTIRE CITY OF DALLAS EXCEPT FOR ANIMALS SOURCED FROM ANIMAL SHELTERS, RESCUES, AND SO FORTH.
AND THIS APPLIED TO CURRENT RETAIL, EXISTING RETAIL PET STORES.
THEY WENT THROUGH A GREAT DEAL OF LITIGATION, I THINK, WAS IT PETLAND? MM-HMM.
SUED, SUED THE CITY OF DALLAS AND IT WENT THROUGH DUE PROCESS AND THE CITY OF DALLAS WON.
SO WE HAVE BEEN, UH, LOBBIED PRETTY HEAVILY BY, UM, ANIMAL HUMANE SOCIETY, ANIMAL RIGHTS PEOPLE IN GARLAND WHO ARE, UM, WELL, LIKE, LIKE ART SAID YESTERDAY, THE ANIMALS, UH, PUPPIES AND KITTENS SOLD IN RETAIL PET STORES.
UH, BASICALLY THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH ALL COMING FROM, UH, PUPPY MILLS AND I GUESS KITTEN MILLS.
SO, UH, WE WANTED TO DISCUSS, UM, YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU SOME EXAMPLES.
WE HAVE THE DALLAS ORDINANCE HERE THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE.
DOES EVERYBODY HAVE THIS MM-HMM.
BUT IN, IN SPEAKING WITH MR. ENGLAND EARLIER, HE, HE ADVISED WE REALLY LOOK HARD.
IT'S THE DALLAS ORDINANCE BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY PASSED MUSTER, UM, PRETTY RIGOROUS LEGAL CHALLENGES.
SO THIS IS SOMETHING FOR US TO CONSIDER AND SEE IF THIS IS SOMETHING WE, WHAT THAT WE WANT TO DO.
UM, BRIAN, CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH THE DALLAS ORDINANCE AND SURE.
AND, UM, THERE'S THE CHAIR LADY SAID, I, I WOULD RECOMMEND THE DALLAS ORDINANCE BECAUSE DALLAS WAS SUED.
UM, PETLAND ASKED FOR INJUNCTIVE RELIEF.
THE COURTS HAVE LOOKED AT IT, AND THE IMPORTANT THING ABOUT ISN'T JUST THAT THE COURTS HAVE LOOKED AT IS WHAT COURT LOOKED AT IT.
AND IT'S THE FIFTH COURT OF APPEALS, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE IN THE SAME DISTRICT WE'RE IN.
AND SO THAT IS ACTUALLY THE LAW OF THIS DISTRICT AT THE MOMENT.
SUPREME COURT ACTUALLY, THE COURT DIDN'T HEAR THIS CASE.
UM, AND SO I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND IT'S NOT EXPAND TOO MUCH MORE THAN WHAT DALLAS DID, ALTHOUGH Y'ALL CAN.
UM, BUT IT DOES RAISE THE RISK OF IF YOU EXPAND DALLAS'S MORE, THAT GIVES THEM, IT GIVES A PET STORE OWNER THE OPPORTUNITY TO C CHALLENGE OUR ORDINANCE ON SOMETHING THAT HASN'T BEEN HEARD BY A COURT YEAR, UM, YET.
UM, AND SO IF YOU GO, IF YOU LOOK AT DALLAS'S ORDINANCE, THEY DO SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF OTHER CITIES, THERE ARE NINE CITIES THAT ARE FOUND IN TEXAS, UM, UM, THAT HAVE SIMILAR PET STORE PROHIBITIONS OR RESTRICTIONS PLACED ON CATS AND DOGS.
AND DALLAS'S IN SUMMARY JUST SAYS, LIKE IT SAYS ON THE SCREEN, IT'S, IT PROHIBITS EXCEPT RETAIL.
UM, PET STORES ARE PROHIBITED FROM SELLING THE ANIMALS EXCEPT ANIMAL SOURCE FROM ANIMAL SHELTERS, UM, WEATHER COUNTY OR CITY, AND ALSO OTHER NON-PROFIT, UM, ANIMAL
[00:45:01]
RIGHTS GROUPS, UM, SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS.UM, UM, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT DIALYSIS ON THE FIRST PAGE OF YOUR LITTLE PACKET THERE, YOU'LL SEE THAT A PERSON COMMITS AN OFFENSE IF THE PERSON SELLS EXCHANGES.
BARTERS GIVES AWAY OR TRANSFERS OR OFFERS THE ADVERTISER SELL, EXCHANGE, BARTER, GIVEAWAY, OR TRANSFER A DOG OR CAT FOUR MONTHS OLD OR OVER.
SO THIS SUBSECTION A, SORRY TO READ THAT, THE SUBSECTION A APPLIES JUST ACROSS THE CITY.
THAT'S REALLY NOT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
WE'RE LOOKING AT SUBSECTION C I APOLOGIZE FOR TAKING Y'ALL THROUGH THAT THERE.
UH, BUT SUBSECTION, SHE COULD DEALS WITH THE RETAIL PET STORES AND IT PROVIDES AN OFFENSE FOR A RETAIL PET STORE IF IT SELLS EXCHANGE BARTERS GIVES AWAY OR TRANSFERS OR OFFERS OR ADVERTISES FOR SALE EXCHANGE, BARTER GIVEAWAY OR TRANSFER A DOG OR CAT REGARDLESS OF THE AGE.
SO WHETHER MANY CITIES YOU CAN READ THROUGH THEIR ORDINANCES, AND YOU'LL SEE IF IT'S A PUPPY OR A CAT UNDER THE ONE YEAR OF AGE, YOU'LL SEE THEY RESTRICT THOSE.
DALLAS JUST SAYS, LISTEN, I DON'T CARE HOW OLD IT IS, YOU DON'T GET TO SELL IT IF YOU'RE A RETAIL PET STORE.
UM, AND THEN IN SUBSECTION ONE OF THEIR SEA THERE IT SAYS, THEY MAY PROVIDE SPACE FOR THE DISPLAY OF DOGS OR CATS AVAILABLE FOR ADOPTION BY AN ANIMAL SHELTER, ANIMAL WELFARE ORGANIZATION OR ANIMAL ADOPTION AGENT.
IF THE RETAIL PET STORE DOES NOT HAVE AN OWNERSHIP INTEREST IN ANY OF THE DISPLAYED DOGS OR CATS AND THE RETAIL STEP RETAIL PET STORE DOES NOT RECEIVE ANY FEES OR COMPENSATION ASSOCIATED WITH THE DISPLAY OF THE DOGS OR CATS.
AND, UM, DALLAS DOESN'T PROVIDE ANY KIND OF DOCUMENTATION PROVISION IN THEIR ORDINANCE.
SO IF WE'RE GONNA ADD SOMETHING, WE MAY ADD A, WE'D BE SAFE TO ADD A PROVISION THAT SAYS THAT THEY HAVE TO KEEP ON FILE, UM, DOCUMENTATION OF WHERE, WHICH ANIMAL ADOPTION AGENCY OR WELFARE ORGANIZATION OR SHELTER, UM, THE CATS AND DOGS WERE SOURCED FROM.
AND SO THAT WOULD BE A, UH, IN MY MIND, A PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE AND, UM, UM, NOT TOO RISKY ENDEAVOR IF WE WANTED TO ADD A PROVISION ABOUT KEEPING RECORDS.
AND MANY OF THE, AS YOU GO THROUGH THIS PACKAGE, YOU'LL SEE MOST CITIES HAVE A RECORD PROVISION IN THERE.
DALLAS JUST DIDN'T DO IT FOR WHATEVER REASON.
UM, HOW ABOUT NUMBER TWO? I WAS OKAY.
UM, IT'S FENCE PROSECUTION IF THE INDIVIDUAL ONLY SELLS, GIVES OR OTHERWISE TRANSFERRED DOGS OR CATS BREAD BY THAT INDIVIDUAL.
THAT'S AN INTERESTING ONE BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE, I THINK, I'M NOT SURE WHAT DALLAS WAS GETTING AT THERE, BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE MANY RETAIL PET STORES, UM, BREEDING ANIMALS.
UM, AND SO I'M PERFECTLY COMFORTABLE NOT ADDING THAT IN THERE AS A DEFENSE, QUITE FRANKLY, BECAUSE I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE THAT BEING THE CASE.
I DON'T KNOW OF RETAIL PET STORES THAT DO THAT.
I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK IF, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT PUPPY PUPPY MILLS, BUT IF YOU HAVE A BREEDER WHO'S RUNNING A PUPPY MILL WHO OWNS A STORE TO SELL THEM, THAT'S A LITTLE CREEPY.
YOU COULD CERTAINLY STRIKE THAT.
THAT'S A, THAT'S ANOTHER ONE THAT IT WOULDN'T BE TOO RISKY TO STRIKE THAT PROVISION.
WELL, ARE WE SAYING AT THAT POINT THEN THAT WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO EVEN ALLOW, UH, INDIVIDUALS WHO SELL, GIVE OTHERWISE TRANSFER DOGS OR CATS OR BREED THEM? WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO ALLOW THAT ETHNICITY NOT IN A RETAIL PET STORE, WHICH IS A DEFINED TERM.
NOW, AN INDIVIDUAL CAN UNDER THE, UNDER THE CURRENT, UM, UM, PROVISIONS OF OUR ORDINANCES.
WE HAVE SOME RESTRICTIONS IN THERE REGARD TO THAT TOO.
UM, BUT YOU CANNOT DO AS IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE PET STORE.
IN, IN, IN ESSENCE, UM, COUNCILMAN WHAT THIS IS REALLY DOING B BASED ON WHAT Y'ALL DID AS A COUNCIL LAST WEEK AND, UM, PASSING, UM, UM, THE LAND USE PROVISIONS OF THE G THAT PROHIBIT THE CELL OF CATS AND DOGS AT RETAIL PET STORES.
UM, WHAT YOU'VE BASICALLY DONE WITH THIS, AND I THINK THIS WAS THE LOOPHOLE Y'ALL WERE TRYING TO CLOSE, UM, WITH THIS, I KNOW THE CHAIR LADY WAS TRYING TO CLOSE THIS PARTICULAR IS THE GRANDFATHERING OF WHAT THIS ORDINANCE WILL BASICALLY DO.
IT'S GONNA DO LITTLE, IT'S GONNA DO, IT'S GONNA CLOSE THAT LOOPHOLE TO WHERE NO ONE'S GONNA BE GRANDFATHERED ONCE Y'ALL PASSE THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS A HEALTH AND SAFETY ORDINANCE AND IT'S NOT A LAND USER ZONING ORDINANCE.
ARE WE SURE WE WANT TO STRIKE THEN NUMBER TWO, I WOULDN'T WANT SOMEBODY WHO'S RUNNING A PUPPY MILL TO HAVE A RETAIL PET STORE AND JUST ABUSE THEIR DOGS AND, AND SELL 'EM AND HAVE, BECAUSE THAT WOULD, THIS WOULD'VE LET THAT HAPPEN.
THIS WOULD ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN.
IT'S A DEFENSE FOR PROSECUTION THAT THEY'RE BREEDING THEIR OWN.
SO, AND WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THAT THE, UM, SUPPOSED, UH,
[00:50:01]
UMBRELLA OF THE LOOKING OVER BREEDERS AND AND GIVING THE, LETTING THEM BE CERTIFIED IS NOT WORKING.SO, UM, BY STRIKING TO YOU'RE SAYING, NO, WE'RE NOT GONNA LET YOU HA RUN YOUR OWN PUPPY MILL AND SELL OUT THE FRONT OF THE STORE.
AND, AND THEN IT DOESN'T EVEN APPLY PERIOD AS FAR AS PET STORES ARE CONCERNED.
IT, IT, THEY WOULDN'T, THAT WOULDN'T BE A DEFENSE TO PROSECUTION.
NOW, I DON'T SEE ON THIS ONE SHEET WITH THE DALLAS ORDINANCE, WHAT WAS THE TIMELINE THEY GAVE THE EXISTING STORES? BECAUSE THAT IS A CONCERN.
THEY THEY DIDN'T GIVE A, IT WAS JUST EFFECTIVE DAY ONE.
THERE WAS NO PHASE IN OF THIS.
IT GIVES ME A LITTLE BIT OF HEARTBURN.
UM, WELL, YOU CAN CERTAINLY, AS YOU PASS THIS ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHEN Y'ALL PASS ORDINANCES, YOU'LL NOTICE ON THE ORDINANCE ITSELF, THERE'S AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE ORDINANCE.
AND SO WHAT YOU CAN DO IS WHEN, WHEN Y'ALL VOTE TO PASS THE ORDINANCE, AND IF THE ORDINANCE PASS THE, THE, UM, YOU CAN, AS PART OF YOUR MOTION, MAKE SURE THAT THE ORDINANCE IS EFFECTIVE AS OF, YOU KNOW, 180 DAYS OR 90 DAYS DOWN THE ROAD.
AND THAT WAY IT GIVES THEM A CHANCE TO, UM, SELL ANY STOCK THAT THEY HAVE IN.
UM, AND SO Y'ALL CAN CERTAINLY EXTEND THE EFFECTIVE DAY OUT.
EVEN YOU CAN PASS IT, YOU KNOW, IN A MONTH AND THEN NOT MAKE IT EFFECTIVE UNTIL SEPTEMBER OR WHENEVER Y'ALL WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IT EFFECTIVE.
SO THEY'RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO, UM, TO ADOPT ANIMALS FROM THE ANIMAL SHELTER OR FROM RESCUES AND THEN TURN AROUND AND SELL THEM.
SO THEY CAN'T SELL THEM AT ALL.
ALL THEY CAN DO IS BE AN ADOPTION STOREFRONT.
THERE ARE SOME OTHER WAYS OF DOING THAT, BUT THE DIFFICULTY IN THAT WILL BE LIKE THE PROBLEM WE JUST ADDRESSED IN THE CONTEXT OF, UM, APARTMENT COMPLEXES IS, AND THAT IS ENFORCEMENT.
IF WE GET INTO A POINT OF WHERE WE ALLOW THEM TO PURCHASE THESE ANIMALS FROM ADOPTION AGENCIES OR FROM SHELTERS OR FROM OTHER ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THAT, THEN IT'S GONNA BE A PAPERWORK ISSUE.
AND THAT'S GONNA REQUIRE US TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO AUDIT PAPERWORK.
AND THAT'S VERY TIME DALLAS, REALLY DALLAS'S ORDINANCE IS VERY SLEEK.
AND THAT'S PROBABLY QUITE FRANKLY WHY THEY BORDER THE BURDEN OF HAVING TO DEFEND IT IN COURT BECAUSE YOU PASS A SLEEK ORDINANCE LIKES THAT ORDINANCE LIKE THIS, IT'S GOING TO AGITATE SOMEONE ENOUGH TO, UM, FILE A LAWSUIT.
UM, BUT IT'S A SLEEK ORDINANCE THAT'S BEEN, UM, UM, REVIEWED BY COURTS ALREADY AND THE APPROPRIATE COURTS AT THAT.
AND SO I'M COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
IS THERE A CHANCE WE COULD GET SUED OVER IT? YES, BUT I'M STILL COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
AND THEN ADDING A DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS, THAT FIRST ONE.
IF WHAT I MAY DO AS I WAS SITTING HERE THINKING THROUGH THIS, INSTEAD OF ADDING A SECTION THAT REQUIRES THEM TO KEEP DOCUMENTATION, I THINK I'LL MAKE THAT C2 BE AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE.
AND KEEP IN MIND AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE IS, IS DIFFERENT THAN A DEFENSE.
SO WHAT I MAY DO IS JUST SAY, C2, IT IS AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE TO PROSECUTION UNDER THE SUBSECTION IF THE INDIVIDUAL SELLS, UM, DOGS OR CATS AND IS ABLE TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION AND PROOF THAT THEY WERE ADOPTED BY AN ANIMAL SHELTER OR ANIMAL WELFARE ORGANIZATION OR ANIMAL ADOPTION AGENCY.
AND THAT WOULD BE THAT WAY, IT'S THEIR BURDEN TO COME TO COURT AND SHOW, HEY, I WROTE GOT A CITATION FOR THIS, BUT I ACTUALLY HAVE DOCUMENTATION.
HERE'S THE DOCUMENTATION THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO SELL THEM.
BECAUSE SEE, I, YOU KNOW, UM, I I GUESS I WAS LOOKING BACK UP HERE AT OH, I MEANT, I MEANT, I MEANT I DIDN'T MEAN SELL, I MEANT IT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO PROVIDE SPACE FOR IT.
BUT AGAIN, WHAT, SO I'M THINKING OF ED'S TWO TO RETAIL PET STORES.
ONE OF THEM SELLS A LOT OF PET MERCHANDISE MM-HMM.
AND SO IT MAY STILL BE AN ADVANTAGE TO THEM TO SHOW, YOU KNOW, TO DISPLAY, UH, SHELTER PETS TO, YOU KNOW, BEAT GOOD GUYS.
BUT THEY, THEY SELL A LOT OF PET SUPPLIES.
BUT THE OTHER ONE IS, I THINK IT'S DREAM PUPPIES.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE SMALL AND THEY MOSTLY JUST SELL PETS.
SO THIS IS, THIS WILL, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS MM-HMM.
UM, BECAUSE IF THEY CAN'T SELL EVEN ANIMAL SOURCED FROM ANIMAL SHELTERS, IF THEY CAN'T TURN AROUND AND SELL THEM, THEN THEY HAVE NO PROFIT MODEL.
AND AGAIN, YOU JUST BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT.
I'M SORRY, Y'ALL ARE GETTING ME THINKING ON MY FEED HERE, AND THAT'S DANGEROUS.
BUT YOU ACTUALLY BRING UP A GOOD POINT.
AS I THINK ABOUT THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS.
IN, IN THIS, IN THE STORY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DREAM PETS, IS THAT WHAT IT'S CALLED? MM-HMM.
[00:55:01]
IN THE DALLAS CASE WOULD BE THEIR LEASE.AND THE FACT THAT IF WE TAKE AWAY THEIR ABILITY TO SELL DOGS, THEN THEY MAY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR LEASE LOOKS LIKE, BUT, UM, WE MAY PUT IN THERE A, WE MAY NEED TO DRAFT IN THERE A PROVISION THAT ALLOWS FOR, UM, RETAIL PET STORES THAT CURRENTLY SELL CATS AND DOGS.
UM, THE ABILITY TO CONTINUE UNTIL THEIR, UM, LEASE EXPIRES UNTIL ANY CURRENT LEASE EXPIRES.
I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M AT THAT POINT NOW THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE THE LANGUAGE.
JUST, JUST, UH, YOU, YOU SURE.
YOU KNOW, THE OBSTACLES, PUT IT TOGETHER IN THE MANNER BY WHICH YOU THINK THAT IT WOULD PASS.
SO ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE IDEA AS, AND ESPECIALLY IF WE, IF WE WERE TO DO THIS, CUZ AGAIN, THIS, THIS IS GOING TO, AT LEAST WITH ONE OF YOUR TWO STORES, THIS IS GOING TO BASICALLY STOP THEM FUNCTIONING.
SO IF WE LET THEM CONTINUE BUSINESS TO THE END OF THEIR LEASE.
NOW WHAT IF THEY HAVE A FIVE YEAR LEASE? I'M SURE THEY DON'T, BUT, UM, IF WE LET THEM CONTINUE TO THE END OF THEIR LEASE, THEN UM, THEN WE'RE NOT PUTTING THEM IN, IN THE WORST OF ALL SITUATIONS WHERE THEY'RE HAVING, THEY'RE FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR A, UM, A SITE THEY CAN NO LONGER USE.
BUT I THINK THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO DO, THE INTENT OF WHAT WE'RE GOING SOMETHING TO DO IS TO ALLOW PET STORES TO DO WHAT PET STORES DO, WHICH IS TO SELL, BUT NOT TO BREED.
THAT'S NOT WHAT, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS.
IT WILL NOT ALLOW THEM TO SELL.
THEY CAN TELL SUPPLIES, BUT THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SELL PETS ANYMORE.
SO WHAT WE'RE SEEING TO THOSE STORES IS WE'RE REALLY BASICALLY TRYING TO PUT 'EM OUT OF BUSINESS.
WELL, THAT'S NOT THE MOTIVE BEHIND IT, BUT BECAUSE THEY'RE SOURCED FROM PUPPY MILLS, WHICH ARE A BIG PROBLEM NATIONWIDE IDENTIFIED BY THE HUMANE SOCIETY, AND I SEE THAT IF WE'RE TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE PUPPY MEALS.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE LEGITIMATE SOURCES? THERE ARE ALMOST NO LEGITIMATE SOURCES ACCORDING TO THE HUMANE SOCIETY AND ART.
MY, MY CONCERN IS I WISH WE COULD DO THIS WHERE THEY COULD SELL PETS THAT ARE SOURCED FROM SHELTERS.
THAT'S WHAT I, WHY CAN'T WE, WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE EVERYONE PROFIT OFF OF HELPING THE ANIMAL SHELTER.
SPECIFICALLY NOT ANIMAL WELFARE AGENCIES, NOT, UM, THE OTHER BREEDERS, UH, THING LISTED.
I WOULD, UH, ANIMAL ADOPTION AGENCIES.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ANIMAL SHELTER SPECIFICALLY BEING THE SOURCE OF ANIMALS.
AND IF THAT MEANS THAT THEY MIGHT MAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A PROFIT OFF OF IT, I AM OKAY WITH THAT.
AS LONG, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HEALTH INSPECTIONS THAT WE CAN, THEY'RE IN PLACE NOW.
SO, UM, SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE IS THAT THEY'RE A PARTNER WITH OUR ANIMAL SHELTER.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN DO THAT, BUT THAT WOULD BE, I, I WOULD LIKE IT TO, IF WHATEVER CITY THEY'RE IN, WHICH WOULD BE GARLAND, IF THEY, I MEAN THE GARLAND ANIMAL SHELTER GETS, I'M SURE DOGS FROM DOGS AND CATS FROM ALL AROUND.
SO THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO FILTER IN THE ANIMALS.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GOING TO ANOTHER SHELTER TO GET ANIMALS.
AND I THINK IT WOULD BE HARDER TO DOCUMENT IF THEY ARE PURCHASING ANIMALS OR ADOPTING ANIMALS FROM ANOTHER SHELTER.
I WOULD LI I, I WOULD REALLY JUST LIKE TO SEE A TRUE PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE GARLAND ANIMAL SHELTER AND ANY PET STORES THAT WANT TO GIVE RELIEF TO THEM.
YOU MIGHT WANNA TALK TO ART ABOUT THE RIGHT ABOUT THAT, CUZ THAT COULD BE VERY COMPLICATED WHEN YES, YOU HAVE COMPETITION BETWEEN THE PET STORES TO, TO PROCURE ANIMALS FROM OUR ANIMAL SHELTER.
HOW DO WE PRIORITIZE THAT? NOW THAT'S SOMETHING MAYBE, MAYBE ARK'S THOUGHT ABOUT, BUT I, I CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW HOW THAT MIGHT WORK.
WELL AND, AND THE RESCUES, BECAUSE THE RESCUES PULL FROM THE SHELTER, SO THEY'RE A HUGE BENEFIT AND THEY FIND HOMES FOR THOSE DOGS.
UM, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE THAT LIMITING IF WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE THE PUPPY MILL PROBLEM OF ANIMALS BEING BRED
[01:00:01]
AND MISTREATED, WHICH IS REALLY TRUE AND REALLY BAD, THEN REQUIRING THEM TO SOURCE FROM A RECOGNIZED ANIMAL SHELTER OR, YOU KNOW, LICENSE, RESCUE, WHATEVER.GIVING THEM THE PLACES AND REQUIRING THEM TO HAVE DOCUMENTATION.
UM, BUT I DON'T CARE IF THEY ADOPT THEM AND SELL THEM.
THAT'S A THING THAT BUGS ME ABOUT THIS.
UH, IF THEY, IF THEY CAN RUN A PET STORE, IF THEY CAN PULL FROM THE POPULATION OF ANIMALS WE WANT THEM TO PULL FROM AND THEY CAN PRETTY THEM UP AND PUT A BOW ON THEIR HEADS AND SELL THEM AND MAKE A PROFIT, I'M FINE WITH THAT.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS THERE, ARE THERE ANY OF THESE ORDINANCES THAT ARE DOING THAT, LETTING THEM SELL SHELTER GRANTS? YES, THERE ARE.
IT JUST GETS, IT BECOMES A REAL ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN ONCE YOU START DOING THAT, ESPECIALLY TO ENFORCE IT.
MAY WE ASK OUR, FOR HIS OPINION, IS HE STILL HERE? YES.
HE'S LIKE, COME ON UP, LET ME COME OVER.
HE DIDN'T CATCH MY SUBTLE CLUE THAT HE MIGHT WANT TO COME OVER
I I ACTUALLY SAW HIM SLINK FURTHER DOWN IN HIS CHAIR WHEN YOU DID THAT
SO MY OPINION IS THAT WOULD BE REALLY TOUGH.
UM, AND THE REASON WHY I SAY THAT IS I DON'T THINK THE PET SHOPS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN PULLING FROM OUR SHELTER BECAUSE IT'S GONNA, THERE IS NO PROFIT OFF OF THAT.
THERE WOULD BE AN ADOPTION FEE.
UM, AND IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT ADOPTION FEE THEY WANNA COME UP WITH.
UH, AND IT'S THE SAME, IT'S SIMILAR TO WHAT OUR RESCUE GROUPS DO AS WELL.
THEY'LL PULL FROM US NOW WE VET DO EVERYTHING AND WE LET 'EM PULL FOR FREE.
UH, AND THEN THEY COME UP WITH THE ADOPTION FEES ON THEIR OWN AND I'VE SEEN IT ANYWHERE FROM A HUNDRED TO $500.
SO, UM, IT WOULD JUST BE REALLY UP TO THE PET SHOPS ON HOW THEY WANTED TO PROFIT OFF OF THAT.
UM, DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN'T BE DONE, I JUST, I HAVEN'T SEEN IT DONE WITH PET SHOPS ANYWHERE ELSE.
ART, DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, WELL IT'S, IT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PET SHOPS ADOPTING AND THEN SELLING THE, THE DOGS OR CATS.
DO YOU FROM, IF THEY'RE GETTING 'EM FROM THE LEGITIMATE SOURCES, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM THE SHELTER AND THEY'RE ADOPTING THEM AND THEN THEY WANT TO TURN AROUND AND SELL THEM, DO YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THAT? NO.
I MEAN, IF THEY'RE GETTING 'EM FROM AN ANIMAL SHELTER OR RESCUE ORGANIZATION OR NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION, THOSE ARE LEGITIMATE UM, ORGANIZATIONS.
THE PROBLEM IS WE DON'T, IT'S UNABLE, WE CAN'T ENFORCE THAT.
UM, AND, AND THAT WAS THE, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT'S GOING ON NOW IS HOW DO WE ENFORCE, ARE THEY GETTING THEM FROM A LICENSED BREEDER THAT'S BEEN INSPECTED? UM, THERE'S JUST NO WAY TO ENFORCE THAT.
BECAUSE I'M SITTING HERE AND I'M THINKING, OKAY, WE'VE GOT AN ORDINANCE HERE FROM DALLAS THAT'S BEEN APPROVED, IT'S PASSED THE LITMUS TEST AND IF WE TAKE OUR EMOTIONS OUT OF IT,
SO MY MY THOUGHTS ARE WE'RE LOOKING FOR AN ORDINANCE, WE'RE LOOKING FOR POLICY, WE'RE LOOKING FOR PROCEDURE.
THAT BEING THE CASE, THIS PASSES THE TEST ALREADY.
IT DOES WHAT WE'RE WANTING IT TO DO, THE NUMBER TWO ON HERE, I THINK THAT WE MAY NEED TO REVIEW IT, BUT IT, IT, IT STILL, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP IT THERE BECAUSE IN FACT WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO FOR US AT THAT POINT IS ALLOW THOSE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY BREATH THE DOGS TO BE ABLE, GO AHEAD.
ACTUALLY, HE GRG A BELL IN MY HEAD AGAIN AS WE'RE TALKING THROUGH THIS, HE BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT AND IT KIND OF ADDRESSES YOUR POINT OF WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
THIS ORDINANCE REALLY IS GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE ON TWO STORES.
AND SO WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS NOT REALLY A REALITY THAT WILL EVER HAPPEN BECAUSE IT'S JUST FOR TWO STORES.
AND UM, CUZ KEEP IN MIND THAT RIGHT NOW Y'ALL JUST PASSED A ZONING ORDINANCE THAT SAYS YOU DON'T ALLOW IT.
AND THE ONLY REASON THESE STORES ALLOW IT IS BECAUSE, UM, THEY'RE GRANDFATHERED IN FOR LAND USE PURPOSES.
AND SO THIS IS CLOSING THAT GRANDFATHER LOOP.
THAT'S THE REASON HE, HE REMINDED ME OF THAT.
SO WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH NOW IS JUST GETTING PAST THE TWO DOORS WE HAVE AND NOW WE HAVE A, A POLICY, A PLAN, AN ORDINANCE THAT TAKES CARE OF ANYTHING ELSE THAT COMES TO THE CITY.
SO YOU UNDERSTAND, AGAIN, THIS WILL CLOSE YOUR STORES.
[01:05:02]
WELL IT WILL CLOSE THEM AFTER.IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT PROBABLY TALKING ABOUT IMMEDIATELY I'M, OR ONCE I, I THINK HE'S GONNA MAKE A PROVISION THAT ONCE THEIR LEASE IS A BURNT LEASE SURE.
THAT'S GONNA BE THE PROVISION IN THERE AND YOU'RE OKAY.
YEAH, BECAUSE AGAIN, THAT'S WHY I WAS TRYING TO SUBSTANTIATE IT UPFRONT.
WHAT IS THE INTENT? WHAT ARE WE REALLY TRYING TO DO HERE? WHAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO DO IS CUT OFF THAT HOLE, BUT IT WON'T, I HAVE TOTALLY TWO STORES THAT WE GOTTA DEAL WITH, SO OKAY.
IT'S JUST BEING, BEING CONSCIOUS OF THE FACT THAT YOU'RE THE ONE THAT WILL LIKELY BE HEARING ABOUT IT.
SO JUST WANTED TO MAKE REAL SURE WE WERE CLEAR ON THAT.
UM, I DO LIKE HAVING NUMBER TWO BECOME THE AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE THAT YOU MENTIONED.
I THINK THAT'S MUCH WISER THAN WAY THAN THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN.
UM, SO COMMITTEE ARE, ARE WE GOOD AT HAVING HIM GO THROUGH, MAKE CLEAN THIS UP, MAKE IT APPLICABLE TO US WITH THE, UH, EXTENDING THEM THROUGH THE END OF THEIR LEASE PERIOD.
NOW IF THAT GETS OUT, THEY'RE ALL GONNA AUTOMATICALLY RENEW THEIR LEASE UPON THE EFFECTIVE DATE.
RIGHT? SO I MEAN, JUST WOULD THEY, ANYBODY THEY COULD, THEY COULD DO A RACE TO THE LANDLORD AND SAY I'M GONNA EXTEND IT OUT AS FAR AS THE LANDLORD WOULD LIKE IT, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT IS A RISK THERE.
AND, AND AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO SEE THE, THE LANGUAGE BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WE MAKE OUR DECISIONS BASED ON INFORMATION WE HAD BEFORE US.
AND ONCE WE LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE, THAT WILL KIND OF HELP US TO REALLY SEE, YES, THIS IS GOOD ART.
WE GOT SOME PROBLEMS STILL SO WELL, AND WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A SNEAKY WAY TO FIND OUT WHAT THEIR, WHAT THEIR, THESE PERIODS ARE CUZ IT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.
UM, UM, MAY I ASK, UM, MR. MUNEZ, ARE THERE ANY OTHER PROVISIONS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN THIS? OR ANYTHING THAT ISN'T COVERED THAT YOU NO, I THINK WHAT BRIAN PRESENTED IS, IS PERFECT.
WELL COMMITTEE, IF THAT'S THE, UH, CASE, LET'S GO AHEAD AND HAVE MR. ENGLAND BRING BACK A, UM, A CLEAN DRAFT OF THIS.
WE WILL RECONVENE NEXT MONTH AND HOPEFULLY AT THAT POINT BE ABLE TO, UH, PLAN ON A, A REPORT OUT TO COUNSEL AND WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES.
SO THANK AGAIN, CAN YOU GET THAT OUT TO US BEFORE THE MEETING AND I'LL YES.
UM, ALL RIGHT, WELL WITH THAT WE ARE TO NUMBER FIVE, WHICH IS TO ADJOURN.
SO AT 5:07 PM WE ARE ADJOURNED.