* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          WELL, GOOD AFTERNOON 
          [00:00:01]
AND WELCOME TO THE MAY 15TH, 2023 
          [Development Services Committee on May 15, 2023.]
MEETING OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE OF THE GARLAND CITY COUNCIL. 
          I'M DYLAN HEDRICK WITH ME AT MAYOR PRO, TIM DEBORAH MORRIS AND COUNCILMAN JEFF BASS. 
          OUR FIRST ITEM WE HAVE ON OUR AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FOR THE MARCH 20TH, 2023 MEETING. 
          HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE, MR. CHAIR? I'LL BE GLAD TO MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL. 
          WE HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL. 
          AND A SECOND. 
          ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. 
          AYE. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED. 
          NOW UP TO ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. 
          FIRST, WE'LL PAUSE FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS. 
          I DON'T SEE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HERE, BUT IF ANY WANDERS IN DURING THE RAINSTORM TODAY, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO HAVE THEM. 
          SO THEN ITEM TWO B IS A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF SUBMITTAL FOR SUBMITTAL, QUEST FOR ZONING, ENGINEERING AND UTILITY PLANS. 
          AND MR. GAREN, LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE READY WITH A PRESENTATION FOR US. 
          YES, SIR. 
          THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. 
          I'VE GOT A RAMON KARE FROM OUR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT HERE TO JOIN ME, AND I'M JUST GONNA, UH, HELP WITH A FEW OF THESE SLIDES AND, AND EXPLANATIONS. 
          SO APPRECIATE HIM BEING HERE. 
          UM, SO IF YOU RECALL WHEN WE LAST LEFT OFF IN MARCH AT THE MEETING, UM, WE KIND OF TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UM, UM, KIND OF WHAT WE CURRENTLY REQUIRE AND MAYBE SOME POTENTIAL, UM, OPTIONS TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DETAIL PLANS AND WHY DO WE REQUIRE 'EM, THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          UM, AND THE COMMITTEE ASKED US TO KINDA BRING BACK A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION AS FAR AS KINDA WHAT OTHER CITIES REQUIRE WITH THEIR, UM, SPECIFICALLY WITH ZONING CASES, YOU KNOW, PDS AND SUVS AND THE LIKE, WHAT, WHAT AND THE WAY OF PLANS, SITE PLANS, UM, DOES THAT INCLUDE? SO WE'VE GOT SOME INFORMATION, UM, AVAILABLE FOR YOU ALL. 
          UM, BUT WHAT WE WANNA FIRST DO BEFORE WE KIND OF GO INTO THE OTHER CITIES, WE'VE GOT KIND OF A CHART, UH, THAT KIND OF COMPARES AND CONTRASTS, UM, KIND OF WHAT THEY REQUIRE VERSUS GARLAND. 
          BUT WE WANT TO GO INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE UPFRONT ON, ON KIND OF THE WHY, UM, WE REQUIRE WHAT WE DO. 
          WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHECKLIST, UM, AT THE LAST MEETING, BUT WE DIDN'T REALLY GIVE REAL WORLD EXAMPLES ON KIND OF WHAT THAT, WHAT THOSE REQUIREMENTS LEAD TO AND KIND OF HOW THEY, HOW THEY TRANSLATE AND, AND SOME WAYS BENEFIT KIND OF, UH, THE DETAIL PLANS THAT ACTUALLY SHOW UP FOR PUBLIC VIEW AND OF COURSE ON THE PLAN COMMISSION AND COUNCIL AGENDAS. 
          UM, SO WE'LL, WE'LL RUN THROUGH A FEW EXAMPLES HERE IN THE NEXT FEW SLIDES. 
          UH, BUT JUST AS A BRIEF REMINDER, UM, PDS ARE TYPICALLY TRIGGERED BY DEVIATIONS, VARIANCES AND IN FLEXIBILITIES, UH, THAT ARE NEEDED BY DEVELOPERS. 
          UM, SUVS USUALLY DO NOT INCLUDE DEVIATIONS, HOWEVER, THEY ARE CASE BY CASE REVIEW OF A LAND USE ON A SITE AND, UM, HAVING A PLAN PRESENTED AS, AS A REQUIREMENT AND HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN THE EXPECTATIONS. 
          SO, UH, AS A CASE BY CASE BASIS, IN ORDER FOR COUNCIL TO, UH, DECIDE WHETHER A LAND PARTICULAR LAND USE IS APPROPRIATE ON A SITE, UH, TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, SITE PLAN AND THE DETAILS, UM, COME WITH THAT TO, UM, HELP THE PLAN, COMMISSION AND COUNCIL, UM, BETTER MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER THAT IS APPROPRIATE ON THAT SITE. 
          UM, AND JUST AS A REMIND YOU, OF COURSE, AS YOU ALL KNOW, SITES REMAINING UNDEVELOPED IN GARLAND AND REDEVELOPMENT SITES ARE USUALLY TIGHT AND CONSTRICTED BY VARIOUS ELEMENTS, UH, NATURALLY GENERATING THE NEED FOR DEVIATION. 
          SO, UM, ONE REASON PDS ARE VERY COMMON HERE AND PROBABLY EVEN MORE COMMON AS WE, UH, CONTINUE TO, UM, BUILD OUT. 
          SO JUST, UH, TO KIND OF GIVE SOME PROS AND OF COURSE THE, THE, THE MAIN CON OF KIND OF HAVING MORE FRONT LOADED PROCESS. 
          CAUSE IT, IT'S, THERE'S DEFINITELY NO SUGARCOATING WHERE WHEN IT COMES TO PDS AND SUVS, IT IS A VERY FRONT LOADED PROCESS IN TERMS OF THE, THE REQUIREMENTS THAT, UM, APPLICANTS AND THEIR ENGINEERS, UH, NEED TO PUT TOGETHER TO GET THROUGH THAT ZONING PROCESS. 
          UM, SO JUST A, A FEW PROS, OF COURSE, IT DOES GIVE THE SOLID ASSURANCE, UH, THAT WHAT IS BEING PRESENTED TO PLAN COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC FOR THAT MATTER, UM, CAN, UH, AND WILL BE BUILT ACCORDINGLY. 
          UM, IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, REVIEWED IN DETAILED ENGINEERING, FIRE, TRANSPORTATION, ET CETERA. 
          UM, NEEDS FOR DEVIATIONS ARE TYPICALLY CAUGHT IN IDENTIFIED AND ZONING DUE TO THE DETAILED PLANS AND SCHEMATICS. 
          SO, UM, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE A DEVIATION MAY NOT BE CAUGHT UNTIL MAYBE LATER IN A PROCESS, DURING PERMITTING, PERHAPS. 
          AND THEN WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION AS TO, UH, DOES THIS NEED TO GO BACK THROUGH ZONING OR SOME TYPE OF VARIANCE. 
          SO THOSE ARE TYPICALLY CAUGHT ALL UPFRONT BY THE TIME IT GOES TO, UH, PLAN COMMISSIONER COUNCIL, UM, PLANS AND DETAILS SHOWN WHEN DEVIATIONS ARE REQUESTED. 
          UM, SO I, I KNOW LIKE SOME CITIES LIKE THE CITY OF ALLEN, THEY DO NOT REQUIRE LANDSCAPE PLANS UNLESS THERE IS A DEVIATION, IN WHICH CASE THEY WANNA SEE THE DETAILS. 
          UM, SO DETAILS, YOU KNOW, THEY IDENTIFY THE IMPACT OF THE DEVIATIONS AND POSSIBLE PROPOSED MITIGATION, WHICH GIVES, UM, TRADITIONALLY HAS GIVEN SOME LEVEL OF COMFORT TO, FOR DECISION MAKERS, UH, TO MAKE A FULLY INFORMED DECISION. 
          UM, AND THEN IS EXTREMELY RARE IN GARLAND THAT CASES HAVE TO GO BACK THROUGH PLAN COMMISSION COUNCIL DUE TO TECHNICAL REQUIREMENT ISSUE. 
          AND WHEN I SAY EXTREMELY RARE, ACTUALLY I DON'T THINK IT'S HAPPENED IN MY EIGHT YEARS. 
          I THINK ANY CASES THAT HAVE GONE BACK HAVE BEEN A REQUEST, UM, DUE TO A REQUEST THAT IS, WAS OBVIOUSLY A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE FROM THE, THE DETAIL PLAN THAT THE DEVELOPERS REQUESTING. 
          OR IN ONE 
          [00:05:01]
CASES THEY IN INSISTED TO GO BACK BECAUSE OF SOME ASBUILT DISCREPANCIES THAT A LENDER, UH, CAUGHT AND THEY PREFERRED TO GO BACK TO THE PROCESS. 
          BUT OTHERWISE THAT IT'S JUST ALMOST NON-EXISTENT REALLY, OR AT LEAST, AT LEAST EXTREMELY RARE, THAT, THAT SOMETHING IS KIND OF CAUGHT ON THE BACK END AND THEN THAT TRIGGERS DEVELOPERS TO GO BACK THROUGH THE PROCESS. 
          SO THAT, THAT'S ONE PRO IS THAT TYPICALLY ONCE YOU GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, THAT'S IT. 
          AND YOU JUST WORK THROUGH STAFF AND PERMITTING AND TOWARDS CONSTRUCTION. 
          UM, AND I GUESS RAMON AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS EARLIER, BUT, AND WE'LL KIND OF TALK ABOUT SOME OTHER CITIES, BUT IN SOME CASES THERE'S, SOME CITIES HAVE KIND OF A STEP BETWEEN KIND OF THEIR EQUIVALENT OF A DETAIL PLAN AND THEIR CONSTRUCTION PLANS. 
          WHEREAS IN GARLAND, TYPICALLY ONCE YOU'RE DONE WITH YOUR DETAIL PLAN, THAT ZONING ORDINANCES APPROVED, YOU GO STRAIGHT TO SITE PERMIT, WHICH IS MARRIED WITH PLATTING SITE PERMIT IS YOUR CONSTRUCTION PLANS, AND THEN THE PLATTING PROCESS ALL ROLLED INTO THAT. 
          SO IT'S A LITTLE MORE STREAMLINED ON THE BACK END IN GARLAND. 
          UM, IN TERMS OF THE TYPES OF PLANS AND PERMITS, AND OF COURSE THE, THE BIG CON, UM, AND SOMETHING WE HEAR IS, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY IT IS MORE UPFRONT REQUIREMENTS FOR DEVELOPERS DURING THE ZONING PROCESS. 
          THERE IS TIME, TIME IS MONEY OF COURSE, FOR DEVELOPERS AND THE COST FOR, UM, ENGINEERING AND ALL SORTS OF, YOU KNOW, UM, CONSULTANTS AND, AND THINGS THAT THEY NEED TO PUT THOSE PLANS TOGETHER AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. 
          UM, AND OFTENTIMES THAT'S THAT TIME AND COST RISK THAT THEY'RE PUTTING FORWARD ON THE FRONT END IS BEFORE THEY ACTUALLY KNOW THEY HAVE A LAND USE ENTITLEMENT. 
          SO THAT'S, SOMETIMES WE, THAT'S SOME THINGS WE HEAR AS WELL. 
          IT'S LIKE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF I CAN DO THIS USE. 
          I'M SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY. 
          THERE'S A LOT OF RISKS. 
          AND THAT'S ONE REASON THEY OFTENTIMES REACH OUT TO YOU ALL AS COUNCIL MEMBERS. 
          THEY WANNA FEEL SOME LEVEL OF COMFORT THAT THIS CAN BE SUPPORTED AND IT'S WORTH CONTINUING TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS. 
          UM, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF TIES INTO THE, UM, GOING BACK TO PLAN COMMISSION COUNCIL, BUT ONE RISK OF SCALING BACK PLAN REQUIREMENTS IS, YOU KNOW, WE MAY SEE MORE ZONING CASES COME BACK THROUGH PLAN, PLAN COMMISSIONING COUNCIL, BUT WE WOULD JUST, IF, IF THAT'S A DIRECTION THE COMMITTEE GOES, UM, WE WOULD JUST KIND OF NEED A LITTLE MORE ASSURANCE AS TO WHAT COULD BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY IF, IF THAT IS A CONCERN. 
          BUT, UM, AT THIS TIME, I'LL, I'LL HAND IT OVER TO RAMON TO KIND OF WALK YOU THROUGH SOME EXAMPLES. 
          UM, AGAIN, BEFORE WE GO INTO OTHER CITIES, JUST, UM, OF SOME DETAIL PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED IN GARLAND AND KIND OF WHAT SOME, UM, THINGS WE KIND OF CAUGHT AND REVIEWED ON THE FRONT END WERE. 
          SO THAT SHOULD BE AWESOME. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          YEAH, YEAH. 
          THAT'S GONNA MOVE THIS FOR YOU. 
          CAN YOU SEE THE MOUSE UP THERE? OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL COUNSEL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME TODAY. 
          SO, UM, I DON'T THINK I'VE MET MOST OF YOU, BUT MAYBE IN PASSING. 
          SO I'M REMIND CAFE WITH THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. 
          SO I PRETTY MUCH DO PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT. 
          SO WHEN IT COMES THROUGH, UH, SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING DRAWINGS FOR ENGINEERING AND AS WELL AS THE PERMITTING, IT COMES THROUGH MY TEAM FOR THE MOST PART. 
          MICHAEL, OF COURSE, WE'RE CLOSELY WITH MICHAEL, BUT HE, UH, HE KIND OF LEAVES IT TO ME TO MAKE SURE I HANDLE THE PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT END OF THE HOUSE. 
          SO THAT BEING SAID, WE HAVE A FEW EXAMPLES LIKE WILL MENTIONED HERE ON THE SCREEN. 
          UM, THIS IS MORE KIND OF TO PAINT THE PICTURE OF WHAT SOME OF THE INITIAL SUBMITTALS WERE. 
          UM, SO THAT MEANS THE FIRST TIME THEY SUBMITTED TO THE CITY BEFORE WE REALLY REVIEWED SOME OF THE DETAILS, SOME OF THE DETAILS ARE THE LANDSCAPE, THE BUILDING ELEVATIONS, THE SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING DRAWINGS, UM, AND THEN YOU KIND OF SEE, UH, THE EXAMPLE OF THE, WHAT WAS THE FINAL SUBMITTAL THAT WENT TO PLAN COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL. 
          SO THIS, JUST KIND OF HIGHLIGHT THAT, WHAT THE DETAILS KIND OF BRING FORTH, UM, DURING THE PROCESS. 
          UH, THAT'S GONNA BE THE INTENT. 
          SO I'LL JUST SHOW A FEW EXAMPLES, BUT BEFORE I DO, SO THIS SAME SPIEL I GIVE IN A PRE-EM SUBMITTAL MEETING TO ALL DEVELOPERS AND THEIR ENGINEERS WHEN A ZONING, UH, A PLAN DEVELOPMENT COMES IN OR AN U BUT MORE SO PLAN DEVELOPMENT, THAT MEANS TYPICALLY THE DEVELOPER'S TRIGGERING A DEVIATION OF SOME SORTS OR SOME MAGNITUDE OR A NUMBER OF THEM. 
          UM, AND LIKE WILL SAID, MOST OF THEM ARE USUALLY DUE TO SITE CONSTRAINTS. 
          UM, SO IN GARLAND, MOST OF THE GRASS, IF IT HASN'T BEEN DEVELOPED, THERE'S PROBABLY A REASON OR A CHALLENGE. 
          UM, AND WITH THOSE CHALLENGE, SOMETIMES DEVIATIONS COME UP. 
          SO THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT WHERE WE COME IN WITH THE SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING DRAWINGS, THAT THE DETAIL PLAN OR THE PD THAT MOVES FORWARD, THAT ZONING SITE PLAN THAT GOES TO PLAN COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL, WE TELL THE DEVELOPERS THAT WE NEED ENGINEERING DOCUMENTS THAT ARE IN SUPPORT OF THAT ZONING SITE PLAN TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT ZONING SITE PLAN CAN WORK FROM AN ENGINEERING PERSPECTIVE, RIGHT? SO THAT WHEN IT GOES TO PLAN COMMISSION, CITY COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC, THAT WHEN THEY'RE MAKING A DECISION ON THAT, OR WEIGHING INPUT OR OBJECTING OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE, THAT THEY'RE SEEING WHAT RELATIVELY SPEAKING WILL, COULD, WILL BE BUILT. 
          SO WE DON'T WANT ANY, NECESSARILY ANY SURPRISES AS TO WHAT WAS APPROVED AT CITY COUNCIL THEN GOES INTO THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS AND WE NOTICE BIG DEVIATIONS CUZ WE DIDN'T HAVE THE DETAILS. 
          SO THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE HIGH LEVEL PREMISE THAT WE KIND OF TELL PEOPLE IN PRE-B SUBMITTAL MEETINGS, UM, WHEN THEY'RE ASSOCIATED TO PLAN DEVELOPMENT. 
          SO THAT BEING SAID, YEAH, GO AHEAD. 
          IT'S OKAY. 
          YEAH, NO, FORGOT TO MENTION, UH, EARLIER I THINK THIS MICROPHONE AND THIS ONE'S 
          [00:10:01]
NOT, UM, AS WE'RE WALKING THROUGH THE EXAMPLES OF, OF KINDA THE WHY WE DO THE, WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY ADVOCATING FOR THE CURRENT PROCESS AND THAT IT SHOULD BE KEPT THE WAY IT IS. 
          WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THE COMMITTEE, UH, BETTER UNDERSTANDS KIND OF THE WHY AND KIND OF WHAT, WHAT SOME OF THESE DETAILS LEAD TO. 
          SO IT'S MORE, UM, INFORMATIONAL AND JUST KIND OF, UM, HELP, HELP, HELP EVERYONE MAKE A, UM, INFORMED DECISION REALLY, RIGHT. 
          SO AND SO WITH THAT, SO HERE'S JUST LIKE I SAID, A FEW EXAMPLES, UM, JUST TO KIND OF HIGHLIGHT, SO THIS IS OVER ON ARAPAHOE AND, UH, GALAXY AND KLEO, AND I'M NOT GONNA TRY TO GET INTO THE DETAILS AGAIN. 
          MORE TO HIGHLIGHT. 
          SO THE AT THE TOP IS THE INITIAL SUBMITTAL. 
          SO THIS IS THE VERY FIRST ONE THAT WE KIND OF SAW. 
          THE BOTTOM ONE IS WHERE WE ENDED UP. 
          SO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED DURING THE DETAILS, UH, AND SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING DRAWINGS WERE THE NEED FOR DETENTION, EXCUSE ME, WHICH WENT UNDERGROUND ON THE FAR EAST END, BUT WHERE THAT, YOU KNOW, STARTS TO AFFECT IS THE AMOUNT OF AMENITIES. 
          OF COURSE, THE OTHER CONNECTION ONTO COHO ALSO CAME UP WITH OUR TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT. 
          SO THEY HAD TO TURN TO ARAPAHOE. 
          SO AS YOU CAN SEE, EVERYTHING KIND OF STARTS SHRINKING IN, RIGHT? AND THE DETAILS THEN HELP IDENTIFY DEVIATIONS. 
          AND I BELIEVE IF, UH, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, THEY HAD THE LOT DEPTH WAS DEVIATION, THE SCREENING ALONG ARAPAHOE WAS A CHALLENGE TO FIT THE SCREEN WALL AND THE TREES AND THEN, UH, THE P U E THAT WAS IN THERE. 
          AND AS WELL AS INTERNAL, WE ALSO, ONCE YOU START SCRUNCHING EVERYTHING, THEY TRY TO SCRUNCH IT TOWARDS THE, THE ROAD THEY'RE BUILDING. 
          WE ALSO HAVE TO IDENTIFY THE WATER SEWER, 10 FOOT UE. 
          SO THOSE KIND OF JUST GO INTO, UH, HELPING IDENTIFY THOSE DEVIATIONS, RIGHT? AND THEN ONCE YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED THE DEVIATIONS, IT ALSO GIVES DETAIL TO CITY COUNCIL PLAN COMMISSION, THE PUBLIC OF WHAT ARE THOSE DEVIATIONS, WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF THOSE DEVIATIONS OR WHAT'S THE MITIGATION OF IT. 
          SO THIS IS JUST, AGAIN, AN EXAMPLE, UM, OF THAT. 
          SO WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT ONE. 
          THIS ONE IS U-HAUL ON, UH, 6 35 IN MCCREE. 
          SO AGAIN, THE ONE AT THE TOP IS THE INITIAL SUBMITTAL. 
          UH, THE ONE AT THE BOTTOM IS WHERE THEY, UH, FINALLY ENDED UP WITH KIND OF THROUGH THE SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING DRAWING PROCESS. 
          PART OF IT, AGAIN, WELL THIS ONE WAS DETENTION. 
          SO THEY DID THIS ONE, THEY DID ACCOUNT FOR DETENTION WITH THE INITIAL SUBMITTAL, BUT IT WAS ALONG 6 35, WHICH THEN PUSHED THE BUILDING TOWARDS MCCREE, UH, ALL THE BAY DOORS DOWN AT 6 35 AND A LITTLE BIT LARGER GRASS AREA, MAINLY BECAUSE OF DETENTION ALONG 6 35. 
          AFTER THE ZONING, UH, EXCUSE ME, DURING THE, THE ZONING AND THE SCHEMATICS, THEY DETERMINED THAT, UH, THE DRAINAGE WAS AT THE OTHER END OF THE SITE. 
          UM, SO THEY HAD TO MOVE THE DETENTION TO DETENTION POND TO THE NORTH END, UH, WHICH THEN THEY PUSHED IT UNDERGROUND, BUT THAT PUSHED THE BUILDING BACK, WHICH THEN THEY PUSHED BAY DOORS TO FACE THE MCCREE. 
          SO AGAIN, THOSE ARE DEVIATIONS. 
          UH, WHEN THE BUILDINGS FACING MCCREE AND THE BAY DOORS ARE FACING MCCREE, THAT'S A DEVIATION. 
          SO THEN IT'S TO IDENTIFY HOW ARE THEY GONNA MITIGATE THAT. 
          UM, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 
          WHAT THIS ONE ALSO DID WAS PHASE TWO, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THEY CALLED IT, BUT PHASE TWO CAME IN HERE. 
          UM, SO THAT ACTUALLY KIND OF OPENED UP SOME AREAS. 
          SO IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A BENEFIT TO THE DEVELOPER CUZ THEY FOUND A LITTLE MORE AREA TO DEVELOP IN THE FUTURE, UM, THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE HAD BECAUSE OF THIS DETENTION POND. 
          SO IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A, A GOOD THING FOR THE DEVELOPER, BUT IT HELPED AGAIN, IDENTIFY SOME OF THE DEVIATIONS ALONG MCCREE, UM, DURING THE, THE DETAILS. 
          YOU GONNA GO TO THE NEXT ONE BEFORE WE, OKAY. 
          THIS ONE, I BELIEVE, UM, IS THE MODERN TOWN HOMES, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. 
          I THINK IT'S ON CITY COUNCIL TOMORROW NIGHT. 
          SO Y'ALL ARE WELL AWARE OF THAT ONE. 
          SO THIS IS ANOTHER ONE WHERE, UH, THE INITIAL SUBMITTALS AT THE TOP, THE FINAL SUBMITTAL, HOPEFULLY, IS PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT Y'ALL ARE GONNA SEE TOMORROW NIGHT. 
          UM, THE, THE LAYOUT IS SOMEWHAT THE SAME. 
          UM, SOME OF THE TRANSPORTATION ELEMENTS THAT WE UNCOVERED WITH SOME OF, UH, ACCESS ONTO THE, UM, CENTERVILLE CENTERVILLE AND THEN 66, UH, DID ALTER IT A LITTLE BIT. 
          SOME OF THE KNUCKLES THAT WE REQUIRE ALSO DID. 
          UM, BUT WHAT THAT REALLY ENDED UP DOING IS IT ACTUALLY ELIMINATED A LOT OF THE LANDSCAPE AMENITY AREA OVER HERE ON THE WEST. 
          UH, AND THEN EVEN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF SHRUNK THE ONE HERE THAT THEY FINALLY ENDED UP WITH. 
          SO THAT, OF COURSE, WHAT DID THE DEVELOPER DO? THEY CAME IN WITH THEIR INITIAL LOTS DURING THE DETAILS TO MEET ALL THE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS. 
          UM, THEY SCRUNCHED IT ALL DOWN, BUT OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T WANNA LOSE ANY LOTS, WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE. 
          BUT THEN START, THINGS START TO SCRUNCH DOWN SO THEY DON'T HAVE AS MUCH AMENITIES OVER HERE. 
          AND THEN ALSO YOU'LL SEE, UH, TOMORROW NIGHT THAT THERE'S, UH, DOWN IN PARTICULAR DOWN HERE AT ALONG 66, THEY STARTED TO SHRINK THOSE BUFFERS DOWN TO NOT GIVE AS MUCH SCREENING. 
          SO AGAIN, YOU WANT TO IDENTIFY ANOTHER ITEM WITH THIS ONE THAT IS REALLY MORE, IT IS SOMETHING THAT THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT LOOKS AT, BUT IT'S REALLY TO HELP IDENTIFY IT TO THE DEVELOPER. 
          THERE'S A LOT OF TOPOGRAPHY ACROSS THIS SITE, UM, AND IT'S VERY TIGHT. 
          SO ONCE THAT HAPPENS, THEY 
          [00:15:01]
START TO SHOW SOME PRELIMINARY RETAINING WALL LAYOUTS, LOCATIONS, NOT, NOT NECESSARILY THE HEIGHTS, BUT WHAT THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT LOOKS AT IS THAT IF A RETAINING WALL HOLDS UP A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, THEN IT HAS TO BE A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL, WHICH IS THE CADILLAC OF RETAINING WALLS, BUT IT'S HOLDING UP OUR RIGHT OF WAY. 
          WE DON'T WANT IT TO FALL, UH, AND, AND FAIL IN THE FUTURE. 
          SO THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS IMPACT THE SPACE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT DEVELOPER LOOKS AT VERY STRONGLY TO CONSIDER. 
          IF THEY LOSE A LOT AND THEY MOVE THINGS OVER, COULD THEY ELIMINATE THE WALL HOLDING UP THE RIGHT OF WAY, GET IT, PUSH IT OUT OF THE, OF THE ZONE OF INFLUENCE. 
          SO THEY COULD CHANGE WALL TYPE, IT'S NOT AS EXPENSIVE. 
          UM, THEY DIDN'T ELECT TO DO THAT, BUT WE AT LEAST IDENTIFIED THAT, UM, AS ANOTHER EXAMPLE. 
          SO IT'S NOT ALWAYS IDENTIFYING SPACE, UH, AND LAND USE ALLOCATIONS, BUT IT'S ALSO TO HELP THE DEV DEVELOPER IDENTIFY CERTAIN BIG TICKET ITEMS THAT THEY MAY HAVE TO DO THAT ARE PREDICATED ON THIS LAYOUT THAT THEY'RE SHOWING. 
          UH, LET'S SEE. 
          THIS ONE. 
          UM, THIS IS ONE IS LONG I 30. 
          UH, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THEY CALL IT. 
          I APOLOGIZE, BUT, OH, THERE IT IS. 
          URBAN VILLAGES AT ROSE HILL. 
          SO THIS ONE, AGAIN, THIS IS AN INITIAL SUBMITTAL. 
          THIS IS MULTI-FAMILY WITH SOME TOWN HOMES IN THE BACK. 
          THIS ONE ACTUALLY TOOK A QUITE A BIT OF QUITE A BIG CHANGE. 
          UM, AS YOU MAY BE AWARE, THERE'S ACTUALLY A PUBLIC STREET THAT'S GONNA CUT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THIS WITH HOPES THAT CAN EXTEND OVER TO THE EAST. 
          SO YOU CAN SEE, IF WE DIDN'T GET SOME OF THE DETAILS, UH, WE WOULD'VE HAD A, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A CHALLENGE PROBABLY TO GET EVERYTHING TO LAY OUT AND FIT WITH THIS PROPOSED RETAIN, UH, UH, STREET THAT GOES THROUGH THE MIDDLE. 
          UH, AND HOW THAT KIND OF STARTS TO MEET, YOU KNOW, ALL OF OUR, THE CITY'S VISION THE DEVELOPER'S NEEDS. 
          UM, SO THIS IS KIND OF A, A ONE THAT HELPED IDENTIFY THAT AND HOW TO, AGAIN, HOW TO MAKE IT ALL FIT. 
          UM, BUT THEN WITH THAT ROW THERE WAS ALSO SOME DEVIATIONS TO THE TYPE OF ZONING, SO TO SPEAK, OR THE, THE, UH, BUILDING SETBACKS, THE BUILD TWO ZONE ALONG THE STREET, UM, SO THAT IT COULD PULL STUFF TOWARDS THE STREET, WHICH WAS NOT EXACTLY PER THE GC. 
          SO THOSE ARE DEVIATIONS THAT WE WOULD'VE NOT HAD A TOUGH TIME IDENTIFYING IF WE DIDN'T HAVE SOME OF THE SCHEMATICS. 
          THE OTHER ONE THAT FOR THE DEVELOPER, AGAIN, NOT THE CITY OR NOT THE ZONING SITE PLAN RELATED, UH, BUT THEY HAD AN OFFSITE SU SANITARY SEWER CHALLENGE WHERE IT'S NOT NEAR THE SITE AND THEY WERE ACCOUNTING ON A SEWER LINE THAT WAS KIND OF DOWNSTREAM THAT DURING THE SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING DRAWINGS, WE IDENTIFIED THAT THEY REALLY DIDN'T HAVE A LEGAL ACCESS POINT TO WHICH THEY THOUGHT THEY DID. 
          UM, SO THEY TOOK A WHILE ACTUALLY TO, TO RESEARCH THAT COME UP WITH DIFFERENT IDEAS TO TRY TO MAKE THIS BACK PART DRAIN FROM A SANITARY SEWER PERSPECTIVE TO OUR, UH, SEWER SYSTEM, WHICH IS UP, UP, UH, AT THE UPSTREAM SIDE. 
          SO WE WORK THROUGH THAT, WHICH AGAIN, DIDN'T AFFECT THE ZONING SITE PLAN AT ALL, BUT IT HELPED IDENTIFY TO THE DEVELOPER, WHAT IF THEY CAN'T MAKE THAT WORK, THEN UH, WE WOULD HAVE A CHALLENGE. 
          CAUSE THEY MAY HAVE TO DO THEIR OWN PRIVATE LIFT STATION AND ALL THAT, WHICH IS NOT, NOT A GOOD THING. 
          SO, UH, THIS ONE IS ETTE TOWNHOMES. 
          I DON'T THINK THIS ONE'S COME THROUGH OR MIGHT'VE COME THROUGH AS A STRAIGHT ZONING, BUT THEN KIND OF GOT PULLED AT SOME POINT. 
          SO IN ANY, ANYWAYS, THIS IS THE INITIAL, UM, LAYOUT. 
          THIS IS AT COUNTRY CLUB AND ROLLETTE ROAD. 
          AND YOU CAN SEE HERE THEY, THEY SUBMITTED, WE GOT OUR DETAILS AND SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT ONE THAT JUMPS OFF THE PAGE, WE DON'T HAVE DEAD END ALLEYS. 
          UM, SO THAT WAS A, SOMETHING THAT WAS IDENTIFIED. 
          AND THEN ALSO ON THIS ONE, THEY DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF FLOW REGULATION SLASH DETENTION THAT THEY NEEDED TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT THEY HAD NOT. 
          UM, AND THEN AS WELL AS THE, UH, THIS DID GENERATE TO BE ABLE TO GET SOME OF THE LOTS HERE, THEY ARE FACING COUNTRY CLUB AND ETTE, WHICH IS NOT A NORMAL SITUATION, THAT IS A DEVIATION TO THE CODE. 
          SO AGAIN, TRYING TO MAKE SURE IT ALL FITS AND THEN IDENTIFY WHAT THOSE DEVIATIONS AND HOW THEY, YOU KNOW, AFFECT THE, THE SITE PLAN, UM, IS WHERE THIS KIND OF CAME INTO PLAY HERE. 
          UH, THE LAST ONE, I THINK THE LAST EXAMPLE WE PUT ON HERE, JUST TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT COME UP THROUGH SCHEMATICS, UH, AND THE DETAILS OF A PD. 
          THIS IS LEG VIEWPOINT, SO HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY'S AWARE OF THIS WHERE ZION ROAD GOES THROUGH. 
          SO THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHERE THIS IS THE ONE THEY CAME IN WITH, DIDN'T HAVE AN EXTENSION OF ZION ROAD. 
          THEY WERE TRYING TO TIE INTO A POINT OF ZION ROAD THAT REALLY WOULDN'T EVEN FIT. 
          THEN THEY WERE ALSO TRYING TO TIE INTO I 30 SERVICE ROAD, WHICH TEXT DOT WOULDN'T ALLOW. 
          SO DURING THE SCHEMATICS WE WERE ABLE TO IDENTIFY SOME OF THE ELEMENTS, UH, LIKE ZION ROAD AND THEN WITH TEXT DOT THAT THEY WOULDN'T ALLOW THAT. 
          THEN IT HELPED US COME UP WITH THIS IDEA WITH THE DEVELOPER TO EXTEND ZION ROAD TO TIE IN IN THE FUTURE TO I 30 ONCE THEY RE REDO THE SERVICE ROADS. 
          BUT THEN AGAIN, ONCE WE DID THAT, 
          [00:20:01]
THEY NEEDED TO PULL THE BUILDINGS CLOSE TO THE ROAD, WHICH THE G DOESN'T ALLOW IN, IN THE NORMAL SETTING. 
          IT HAS A BUILDING SETBACK RATHER THAN A BUILD TWO ZONE. 
          SO THIS ONE ACTUALLY WAS A COMPLETE DEVIATION, UM, BECAUSE IT KIND OF IDENTIFIED A DIFFERENT KIND OF ZONING TYPE, I GUESS, SO TO SPEAK. 
          UM, SO WE NEEDED THE, THOSE SCHEMATICS AND, AND THE, THE DETAILS TO BE ABLE TO PULL, PULL THAT DEVIATION OUT. 
          THE OTHER ITEM, IT DID IDENTIFY EARLY ON, AGAIN, IT DIDN'T AFFECT THE SITE PLAN AT ALL. 
          UM, BUT THE CITY OF DALLAS, UH, REQUIRED THAT THE DEVELOPER BUILD A SEAWALL ON THE LAKE. 
          UM, THAT WAS KIND OF PARALLEL A PART, PART OF ZION ROAD BECAUSE THEY WERE, THERE WAS KIND OF A, A FLIP OF, UH, TO, TO ALLOW ZION ROAD TO COME INTO THE TAKE AREA. 
          THE CITY OF DALLAS WANTED A SEAWALL. 
          SO THAT ALSO, AGAIN, DIDN'T AFFECT THE SITE PLAN, BUT IT WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT WITH THE DEVELOPER SO THAT THEY WERE WELL AWARE, NUMBER ONE OF THAT COST. 
          BUT NUMBER TWO, THAT ONCE THEY, UH, HAD THE ZONING APPROVED, THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO WORK THROUGH THAT WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS, WHICH TAKES SOME TIME. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          I THINK THE NEXT SLIDE IS ACTUALLY, UM, CHART WITH THE CITY. 
          SO HERE WE GO. 
          UM, ONE, ALAN KIND OF GOT CUT OFF A LITTLE BIT THERE, BUT UM, WE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF OTHER CITIES AND UM, WE'LL KIND OF WALK YOU THROUGH THIS AND RAMON CAN KIND OF HELP EXPLAIN SOME OF THE ENGINEERING SCHEMATIC, UM, INFORMATION AS WELL. 
          I GUESS JUST STARTING WITH GARLAND, OF COURSE, YES. 
          A PLAN IS REQUIRED FOR ANY PD OR S U WITH GARLAND. 
          UM, TYPICAL PROCESS FROM INITIAL SUBMITTAL TO FINAL CITY COUNCIL ACTION ACTION IS FOUR TO SIX MONTHS. 
          SOMETIMES IT CAN TAKE A LITTLE LONGER JUST DEPENDING ON WHAT THE ISSUES ARE. 
          OR IF THE APPLICANT HAS TAKEN A WHILE TO RESUBMIT, THEY'RE NOT HITTING THOSE KIND OF AVAILABLE RESUBMITTAL DATES. 
          UH, OR IN SOME CASES IT CAN EVEN BE QUICKER. 
          BUT THAT'S KIND OF A VERY TYPICAL, UH, PROCESS. 
          UM, ENGINEERING SCHEMATICS ARE REQUIRED, UM, IN GARLAND. 
          AND, UM, THIS WILL BE KIND OF AN IMPORTANT ONE TO NOTE, OR SOME CITIES DIFFER. 
          UM, IN GARLAND, THE PLAN THAT GOES WITH AN U OR A DETAILED PLAN THAT GOES WITH A PD DOES GO TO BOTH PLAN COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL FOR ACTION PLAN. 
          COMMISSION DOES HAVE SOME AUTHORITY WITHIN DETAILED PLANS. 
          SO FOR EXAMPLE, ALLEY WAIVERS, THEY CAN APPROVE AND LANDSCAPE VARIANCES AND SIGN VARIANCES. 
          UM, THEY CAN APPROVE, BUT OTHERWISE THE PLAN AS A WHOLE DOES CONTINUE ON THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          UM, JUMPING BACK UP WITH FRISCO, UM, YES, THEY REQUIRE, UM, UH, PLANS EVENTUALLY. 
          THEY KIND OF HAVE A MULTI-STEP PROCESS. 
          YOU CAN START WITH A PD, UH, INITIAL ZONING, WHICH IS FOLLOWED WITH, UH, PSP. 
          IT STANDS FOR PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN. 
          PLANO HAS THE SAME TERMINOLOGY. 
          UM, BUT WHEN A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN, UM, WHEN THEY'RE AT THAT STAGE OF REQUIREMENT, UM, THAT IS REQUIRED. 
          UM, HOWEVER, THAT JUST GOES TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL. 
          AND ANY ZONING CONSIDERATION, OF COURSE, GOES ON THE CITY COUNCIL LIKE ANY OTHER CITY. 
          BUT, UH, BUT THE PLANS WOULD GO TO THE, UM, TO THE, UH, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. 
          UM, THEY DO OFFER KIND OF WITH A INITIAL PD OF HAVING KIND OF A CONCEPT PLAN. 
          ENGINEERING SCHEMATICS WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED WITH THAT, BUT THEY WOULD, THEY ARE REQUIRED WITH THEIR PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN AND THE PSP PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN. 
          IN TERMS OF REQUIREMENTS, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT IT'S, IT'S A PRETTY CLOSE PARALLEL WITH OUR DETAIL PLANS AND GOING MM-HMM. 
          , YEAH, TERMS, TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF DETAIL THAT THEY REVIEW. 
          UM, KELLER WE DIDN'T GET A PROC DIDN'T REALLY NAIL DOWN A PROCESS WITH THAT WASN'T REAL CLEAR WITH THEM. 
          BUT YES, THEY REQUIRE, UM, PLANS THAT GO TO BOTH PLANNING, ZONING, COMMISSION, AND CITY COUNCIL WITH ZONING CASES. 
          HOWEVER, THEY DO OFFER A CONCEPT PLAN OPTION INITIALLY. 
          AND THEN, UM, WHEN A DETAIL PLAN, WHEN THE DEVELOPER IS AT THAT STAGE, THAT DOES GET REVIEWED, UM, UH, BY ENGINEERING ENGINEERING SCHEMATICS. 
          AND THAT GOES TO BOTH, BOTH THE PLAN COMMISSION AND COUNCIL. 
          SIMILAR TO GARLAND. 
          OH, SORRY. 
          HOPE YOU CAN HEAR ME. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S, I GOTTA REMEMBER THIS MIC'S NOT ON THIS , THIS ONE'S ON. 
          UM, AND, AND THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF AN IMPORTANT NOTE. 
          WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT, THAT AS A REMINDER, IN 2019 WHEN THE SHOT CLOCK LAW CAME DOWN FROM THE STATE, SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER, BUT THAT'S WHEN WE ACTUALLY ELIMINATED THE CONCEPT PLAN OPTION IN THE G IT USED TO BE THAT A DEVELOPER HAD AN OPTION, THEY COULD, UM, JUST REZONE INTO A PD THAT COULD HAVE A CONCEPT PLAN. 
          SO THAT GETS 'EM THEIR BASIC USE ENTITLEMENT WITHOUT SPENDING MUCH MONEY IN THE WAY OF ENGINEERING. 
          UM, HOWEVER, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO COME BACK THROUGH THE PROCESS AGAIN FOR A DETAIL PLAN. 
          SO THEY HAD THAT OPTION. 
          SOME OF 'EM PREFERRED THAT ROUTE CAUSE THEY JUST WANTED TO CLOSE ON THE LAND AND KNOW THEY HAD THE ENTITLEMENT. 
          UM, AND THEN THEY WERE FINE WITH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE BUYER COMING BACK THROUGH THE PROCESS FOR THE DETAIL PLAN. 
          UM, OR THEY JUST WANT TO GO AHEAD AND GET THROUGH THE PROCESS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND GO AHEAD AND PUT IN THE RISK AND DO A DETAIL PLAN UP FRONT. 
          SO IT SEEMS, UM, MOST OF THEIR CITIES STILL OFFER THAT. 
          UM, SO THAT'S JUST KIND OF AN IMPORTANT THING TO KEEP IN MIND. 
          WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT. 
          UM, UH, I THINK THE CONCERN WITH THE SHOT CLOCK LAW AT THE TIME THAT COUNCIL 
          [00:25:01]
HAD WAS, YOU KNOW, WITH CONCEPT PLANS, ARE WE SORT OF, UM, INADVERTENTLY APPROVING A PLAN, UM, THAT MIGHT NOT WORK OR, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T REALLY REVIEWED THE DETAILS. 
          SO I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF THE, THE CONCERN THERE. 
          OF COURSE, VERY NEW, THIS IS WHEN THE SHOT CLOCK WAS, YOU KNOW, JUST, JUST COMING THROUGH. 
          UH, MCKINNEY IS AN OUTLIER. 
          THEY ACTUALLY USED TO REQUIRE PLANS WITH SUVS AND DETAIL PLANS. 
          THOSE WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS, I BELIEVE PLAN COMMISSIONING COUNCIL. 
          HOWEVER, THEY DO NOT REQUIRE THAT ANYMORE. 
          UM, THE, UH, KIND OF CURRENT PLANNING MANAGER THERE SAID THAT WAS KIND OF IN THE NAME OF, UM, YOU KNOW, BEING MORE DEVELOP, DEVELOPMENT FRIENDLY TO KIND OF GET THROUGH THE ZONING PROCESS QUICKER. 
          THEY NO LONGER REQUIRE THEM NOW WITH SUVS. 
          I'LL KIND OF BACK UP WITH PDS. 
          IT'S REALLY JUST, YOU KNOW, REVIEWING THE REGULATIONS, JUST THE WRITTEN, UM, CONDITIONS OF A PD, IF THERE ARE VARIANCES OR DEVIATIONS, THEY KIND OF OUTLINE THOSE IN A REGULATING PLAN. 
          THOSE BECOME PART OF A PD ORDINANCE, BUT THERE'S TYPICALLY NOT A PLAN ASSOCIATED WITH THAT OR REQUIRED. 
          UM, AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE SOME EXCEPTIONS OR SOME SPECIAL CASE SCENARIOS WHERE THEY MIGHT, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT WITH SUS A DEVELOPER IS, AT LEAST WITH THE SU OR OR AFTER REQUIRED TO SUBMIT A PLAN TO STAFF FOR REVIEW. 
          BUT THAT DOES NOT, UM, GO TO PUBLIC HEARING THAT THAT'S REVIEWED BY STAFF ONLY. 
          UM, AND THAT CAN BE FOLLOWING THE ENTITLEMENT OF THE S U P OR WITH THE S U P CONCURRENTLY, BUT THE PLANS DO NOT GO TO PLANNING, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION OR CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. 
          UM, PLANO, UH, SEEMS PRETTY SIMILAR TO FRISCO, I THINK. 
          MAYBE NOT, UH, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE STREAMLINED, BUT THEY DO REQUIRE A PLAN. 
          UM, NOT AT THE CONCEPT PLAN STAGE, BUT, UM, WELL ACTUALLY IT'S, IT'S OPTIONAL AT PSP. 
          OH YEAH, THAT'S ENGINEERS. 
          SO ON PLANO, THE SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING DRAWINGS ARE PRELIMINARY UTILITY PLANS. 
          THEY, EACH ONE THAT I'VE TALKED TO, UM, THEY ALL HAD A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FLAVOR, UH, WHICH IS NORMAL IN PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT. 
          SO PLANO, THE PSP OF THE PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN, WHICH IS KIND OF SORT OF WHAT WE CALL A DETAIL PLAN, THEY SAID THE PRELIMINARY UTILITY PLANS WERE OPTIONAL. 
          I WAS LIKE, OKAY, WHAT DOES OPTIONAL MEAN? THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, WE, WE STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT DEVELOPERS SUBMIT IT. 
          UH, AND THEY SAID THAT SOME DEVELOPERS DO, BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY'RE TRYING TO IDENTIFY, UH, DOES IT WORK? HOW DOES IT ALL FIT? AND NO SURPRISES WHEN THEY MOVE FORWARD. 
          BUT THEY DID SAY IT'S OPTIONAL. 
          UM, NOT NECESSARILY A HARD AND FAST REQUIREMENT. 
          THAT'S THE ENGINEERING SCHEMATICS. 
          THE ENGINEERING SCHEMATICS WITH THE PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN. 
          YEAH, BUT A PLAN IS REQUIRED, THEY CALL IT A PSP, AND THAT GOES SIMILAR TO FRISCO, THAT GOES TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ONLY FOR, FOR PLAN APPROVAL. 
          AND, UM, LIKE RAMON SAID, WITH THE ENGINEERING PLANS KIND OF BEING OPTIONAL BUT RECOMMENDED, UM, THAT THERE'S JUST A LITTLE MORE RISK ON THE DEVELOPER, THAT IF THEY GET A PSP APPROVED BY PLANNING COMMISSION AND THEY'RE IN PERMITTING AND SOMETHING'S CAUGHT, THEN THEY'VE JUST GOTTA GO BACK TO PLAN COMMISSION, UM, FOR APPROVAL. 
          UH, RICHARDSON, UM, PLANS ARE REQUIRED. 
          UM, ENGINEERING SCHEMATICS. 
          RAMON, EXPLAIN THAT ONE. 
          YES. 
          INFORMALLY WITH PDS. 
          YEAH, SO RICHARDSON, UH, WITH THE PDS IS THEY KIND OF WORK A LITTLE BIT, IT'S NOT REALLY NECESSARILY OPTIONAL, BUT THEY'LL, THEY WORK A LITTLE MORE IN TANDEM WITH THE DEVELOPER ON SITES THAT THEY IDENTIFY NEED THIS NEED SOME UTILITY PRELIMINARY UTILITIES. 
          THEY'LL, THEY'LL IDENTIFY THAT AND KIND OF WORK WITH THE DEVELOPER THROUGH THE PROCESS. 
          UM, AND THEN THEY ALSO, RICHARDSON HAS THEIR ENGINEERS THAT DO DEVELOPMENT OR IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES GROUP. 
          SO THEY WORK PRIMARILY ON, ON DEVELOPMENT ONLY. 
          UM, AND SO THEY'RE ALSO KIND OF, THEY'LL HAVE MEETINGS WITH THE DEVELOPER EVEN THEY'LL HAVE UTILITY PLANS. 
          THEY'LL HAVE MEETINGS WITH THEM TO DISCUSS, HEY, DID YOU CONSIDER THIS? DID YOU CONTEMPLATE THIS? WHAT ABOUT THIS? AND JUST KIND OF GET A FEEL FOR WHAT THEY'RE PLANNING ON DOING UTILITY WISE AND DRAINAGE WISE. 
          UM, AND THEN SEE IF THEY CAN GET COMFORTABLE WITH THAT KIND OF INFORMAL MEETING OR INFORMAL INFORMATION IF THEY NEED IT. 
          UM, LET'S SEE. 
          WAXAHACHIE IS KIND OF SIMILAR TO MCKINNON THAT THEY DO REQUIRE PLANS ACTUALLY WITH PDS AND SUVS, HOWEVER, THOSE ARE ONLY REVIEWED BY STAFF. 
          UM, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND COUNCIL ARE MAINLY WERE JUST REVIEWING THE USE OR THE REGULATING PLAN WITH THE PD, UH, NOT NECESSARILY A PLAN. 
          AND BY THE WAY, THE TYPICAL PROCESS IS THAT THOSE WERE KIND OF GIVEN TO US BY THE STAFF THERE. 
          WE DIDN'T REALLY BREAK DOWN AS TO WHY SOME OF THESE TAKE AS LONG AS THEY DO. 
          WE KIND OF ASKED FOR A TYPICAL PROCESS AND THESE, THESE KIND OF CAME BACK. 
          SO, UM, IT'S INTERESTING, SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES ALSO SAY FOUR TO SIX MONTHS, BUT SOME SAY THEY TAKE A LITTLE BIT LONGER. 
          AND THEN FINALLY, ALAN, UH, IS FAIRLY SIMILAR TO GARLAND. 
          THEY REQUIRE PLANS WITH PDS AND SEPS, SIMILAR TIMEFRAME. 
          UM, UH, THOSE GO TO BOTH THEIR PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL. 
          UH, BUT THEY HAVE, IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE THE CONCEPT PLAN OPTION, UM, UPFRONT THAT WOULDN'T REQUIRE THE KIND OF DETAILED PLANS AND SCHEMATICS. 
          UM, I CAN, OH, GO AHEAD. 
          YEAH, AND, AND ONE THING I WAS GONNA 
          [00:30:01]
MENTION IS KIND OF TALKING TO SOME OF THE ENGINEERS THAT IT, TO ME IT SEEMS LIKE THAT THE OTHER CITIES MAY HAVE A CONCEPT PLAN TO GO TO COUNCIL, LIKE WILL'S MENTIONING, UH, THAN THE OTHER CITIES. 
          THEIR, THEIR DETAIL PLAN OR PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN MAY ONLY GO TO A P AND Z, UH, RATHER THAN TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          THERE'S ONE OTHER STEP THAT THEY ADD IN THERE AT SOME POINT THAT THE, THAT THE CITY OF GARLAND DOES NOT, AND THEY CALL IT A SITE PLAN. 
          SO SOME OF THESE ARE VERY THOROUGH, LIKE FRISCO, YOU GOT A CONCEPT PLAN, A PSP, THEN YOU HAVE A SITE PLAN, THEN YOU HAVE, THEN YOU HAVE CONSTRUCTION PLANS AND PLATTING. 
          SO THAT SITE PLAN STAGE, UH, ESSENTIALLY THEY GO FROM A KIND OF WHAT WE CALL A DETAIL PLAN AND ADD A LITTLE MORE ENGINEERING INFORMATION. 
          SO THEY MIGHT GET A GRADING PLAN ALONG WITH THE ACTUAL SITE PLAN, AND THEN THE, EACH CITY'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. 
          BUT IF THAT SITE PLAN WITH THE ENGINEERING INFORMATION BEHIND IT STILL MATCHES THE PRELIMINARY, THE PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN, THEN STAFF CAN APPROVE THE SITE PLAN. 
          THEN THEY MOVE TO CONSTRUCTION PLANS. 
          UM, WHICH TO ME, DEALING, WORKING FOR THE CITY GARDEN FOR 10 YEARS, TO ME THAT ADDS A, IT ADDS A STEP IN BETWEEN. 
          WHERE WILL WAS MENTIONED IS ONCE WE GET OUR ZONING APPROVED, THEN WE GO TO FULL CONSTRUCTION PLANS WITH A PLAT, WHICH IS A BIG STEP THAT MOST CITIES DON'T. 
          AND EVEN DEVELOPERS WHEN THEY'RE SUBMITTING TO US, THEY'RE LIKE, OKAY, YOU KNOW, DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PLAN REVIEW, CAN WE GET OUR SITE PLAN APPROVED? I'M LIKE, GUYS, YOUR ZONING HAS BEEN APPROVED. 
          WE'RE JUST WORKING ON THE PLAT AND THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS. 
          UM, SO WHAT I FEEL LIKE IS THAT A LOT OF THESE CITIES, EVEN IF THEY DON'T REQUIRE THE DETAILS UP FRONT, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST TAKING THAT DETAILED IN INFORMATION AND ATTACHING IT TO A DIFFERENT PART OF THE PROCESS. 
          BUT THEN THE QUESTION, UH, IS, COMES OF THAT PART OF THE PROCESS, DOES THAT, IF THAT CREATES MORE DEVIATIONS, DOES IT ONLY GO TO PLAN COMMISSION? DOES IT GO TO STAFF OR DOES IT GO ALL THE BACK TO CITY COUNCIL? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, YES, IT'S THE FIRST THIRD OF THE PROCESS OF THE ZONING, UH, WHICH IS UP FRONT LOADED HERE IN THE CITY OF GARLAND. 
          BUT WE GET ALL THE DEVIATIONS IDENTIFIED AND LIKE, LIKE WILL SAID, WE DON'T REALLY, DURING CONSTRUCTION, WE DON'T BRING ZONING BACK BECAUSE WE'VE IDENTIFIED ALL THE DEVIATIONS NECESSARY, OR WE COME UP WITH SOME MINOR ONES THAT WE CAN WORK AROUND. 
          SO IF WE ADD IN THAT SITE PLAN STEP, UM, THAT WE DON'T DO NOW, THAT IN MY MIND WOULD ADD, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST ANOTHER STEP THAT THAT, THAT, UH, IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT, WHO HAS TO APPROVE THAT STEP OF HOW MUCH TIME IT ADDS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          YEAH, AND RAMON MAKES A GOOD POINT. 
          IT, IT'S NOT THAT IN THE DETAILED PLAN IN GARLAND THAT EVERY, EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING IS CAUGHT. 
          UH, THEY'RE SOMETIMES IN PERMITTING WHEN THINGS ARE REVIEWED IN CONSTRUCTION PLANS, THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING WHERE WE HAVE TO SAY, OKAY, WHY IS THIS DIFFERENT FROM THE DETAILED PLAN? AND THEN, UH, BUT, BUT IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF CASES, IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS TRULY MINOR. 
          UH, MAYBE SHIFTING, YOU KNOW, UH, LANDSCAPE ISLAND OVER SOMETHING, SOMETHING OR ANOTHER. 
          A FIRE RISER MIGHT KIND OF STICK OUT FROM A BUILDING A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY ADDING ANY IMPACT TO THE DEVELOPMENT OR ADDING UNITS OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE OF CONCERN OR CONFLICTING WITH THE, WITH THE PD ORDINANCE. 
          UM, OKAY, WE'RE ALMOST THERE, BUT WE, THE COMMITTEE, UH, HAD ASKED US TO GET A LITTLE DEVELOPER AND, UH, DEVELOPER FEEDBACK. 
          SO I'LL JUST KIND OF READ THROUGH THESE, UM, REAL QUICK, UM, KIND OF DEVELOPERS AND THEIR DESIGN TEAMS. BUT, UH, ONE, UH, UH, ONE KIND OF PIECE OF FEEDBACK WE GOT BACK WAS, UH, MOST CITIES REQUIRE VERY LIMITED ENGINEERING DATA, EITHER INFORMALLY OR, AND APART FROM THE APPLICATION OR AS FORMAL PLANS SUBMITTED WITH THE APPLICATION, CITY WILL RANGE FROM NO ENGINEERING PLANS REQUIRED, BUT AS THE CIVIL ENGINEER CONNECT TO CONNECT WITH CITY ENGINEERING ON THE BASIS OF UTILITY AND DRAINAGE MENT ITEMS TO ENSURE THE SITE PLAN CAN BE GENERALLY CARRIED OUT AT PERMIT. 
          THEN WHEN THE CITY PROVIDES COMMENTS ON THE APPLICATION, CITY ENGINEERING WILL STATE IF ANY ISSUES REMAIN, AND SOME C CYA LANGUAGE AND DISCLAIMER LANGUAGE, UH, MAKES SENSE. 
          OTHER CITIES WILL REQUIRE FORMAL PLANS, BUT VERY BASIC PLAN ON UTILITIES AND DRAINAGE AND STORM WATER, THOUGH IT DEPENDS ON THE SITE AND WHETHER THERE'S A FLOOD PLANE, ET CETERA. 
          UH, THIS IS A DIFFERENT DEVELOPER, BUT, UH, WROTE, I JUST WANT TO ADD THAT WE ENJOY GARLAND PROCESS. 
          IT PROVIDES PREDICTABILITY AND CLARITY THAT IS MISSING IN SOME CITIES. 
          TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THE CITIES WE'VE WORKED IN AND FAMILIAR WITH, UH, INCLUDE ARLINGTON HAS A SIMILAR PROCESS, ALTHOUGH THEIR SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING REVIEW IS LESS THOROUGH AND CARRIES A LITTLE MORE RISK TO THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM. 
          UH, MCKINNEY HAS A SIMILAR PROCESS. 
          UM, INTERESTING. 
          I, I KNOW THEY DON'T REALLY REQUIRE PLANS THROUGH THE HEARING PROCESS, BUT HE MAY BE TALKING ABOUT WHAT STAFF REQUIRES FOR STAFF REVIEW. 
          MANSFIELD IS SIMILAR. 
          ALAN IS SIMILAR. 
          UH, FORT WORTH DOESN'T REQUIRE SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING FOR PDS. 
          THEY HAVE A STAFF APPROVAL PROCESS FOR MINOR CHANGES TO THE DETAILED SITE PLAN. 
          UH, SO LESS THAN 10% REVISION TO PARKING BUILDING. 
          THEY'VE GOT A LITTLE CRITERIA BUILT IN. 
          UH, CROWLEY HAS A HIGH LEVEL PD THAT GOES THROUGH PZ AND COUNCIL THEN REQUIRES A DETAILED SITE PLAN WITH SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING THAT STAFF, UH, THAT IS STAFF APPROVED. 
          AND THEN FINALLY, UH, I THINK THIS IS THE LAST DEVELOPER FEEDBACK. 
          UH, PRELIMINARY OR SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING IS NOT TYPICALLY REQUIRED 
          [00:35:01]
FOR ZONING CASES, UH, FROM MOST CITIES IN THE METROPLEX IN MOST CITIES, IF YOU'RE GOING THE PD ROUTE, YOU'LL LET MINIMUM NEED TO PROVIDE A CONCEPTUAL SITE LAYOUT. 
          A MAJORITY OF THE SUBURBAN CITIES WILL ALSO ADD LANDSCAPE PLANS AND SOMETIMES BUILDING ELEVATIONS. 
          THERE ARE A COUPLE OF CITIES THAT REQUIRE PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING WITH, UH, ZONING SUBMITTAL. 
          THE TWO I CAN THINK OF OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD ARE ARLINGTON AND GARLAND. 
          FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, I UNDERSTAND WHY THE REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING, UH, THE GOAL IS NOT TO REZONE A PROPERTY THAT DOESN'T PHYSICALLY WORK WITH THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE. 
          I ALSO STAND THE OWNER'S SIDE IN THAT THEY WANNA MINIMIZE THE COST OF THE REZONE SINCE THEY, SINCE THEIR REZONE ISN'T GRANTED, UH, IT'S WASTED MONEY. 
          NOT SURE WHAT THE BEST METHOD IS. 
          MY INITIAL THOUGHT WOULD BE CASE BY CASE BASIS. 
          SITES THAT ARE LOW INTENSE USES WITH INFRASTRUCTURE LIKELY ARE ADEQUATE THAN PRELIMINARY ENGINEERING, NOT REQUIRED, UM, JUST COPIED AND PASTED. 
          THEN I KNOW THERE'S A FEW  GRAMMATICAL TYPOS THERE. 
          UM, MORE, UH, INTENSE USES OR SITES WHERE INFRASTRUCTURE IS LIKELY NOT ADEQUATE WOULD REQUIRE SCHEMATIC ENGINEERING. 
          SO JUST A LITTLE SCHEMATIC AT HER FEEDBACK. 
          AS A SIDE NOTE, AS WE KIND OF LAUNCH CLARITY AND GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, WE DO PLAN ON GETTING A LITTLE MORE FEEDBACK ON THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF THE PROCESS, WHAT WORKS, WHAT DOESN'T. 
          SO JUST KIND OF HEADS UP ON, ON THAT. 
          SO FINALLY, KIND OF TO GET US TO DISCUSSION. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, IF THE COUNCIL ULTIMATELY WANTED US TO, UM, MAYBE ELIMINATE DETAIL PLANS OR, OR, UM, SCALE BACK, UH, THE AMOUNT OF DETAIL AND PLANS MAKE THEM MORE CONCEPTUAL AND LATE NATURE, IT WOULD BE A BIT OF A PARADIGM SHIFT IN GARLAND, OF COURSE. 
          UM, I KNOW JUST KIND OF AS, UH, SOMETIMES FROM EXPERIENCE, YOU KNOW, STRAIGHT ZONING CASES ARE, UM, HAVE SOMETIMES BEEN DENIED BY PLAN COMMISSIONER, COUNSEL, OR CONDITIONED TO COME BACK THROUGH AS A DETAILED PLAN. 
          UM, UM, DESPITE THAT, A STRAIGHT ZONING APPLICATION ISN'T ALLOWED APPLICATION TYPE AND A DETAILED PLAN IS NOT REQUIRED WITH THEM. 
          UH, BUT WE'VE SEEN SOME SCENARIOS WHERE MAYBE THE COMMISSION OR, UM, COUNCIL MAY JUST NOT BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE STRAIGHT ZONING OR SOMETHING WITH, WITH A LOT OF DETAILS. 
          SO JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND. 
          IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A PARADIGM SHIFT. 
          UM, AND YOU KNOW, WE OF COURSE HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS WHERE SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, UH, RESIDENTS ARE LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? WHAT DO THE BILLING ELEVATIONS LOOK LIKE? WHAT ARE THE DETAILS? SO, UM, AND OF COURSE AS OUR MINOR GARLAND HAS A LITTLE VACANT LAND LEFT, SO IT KIND OF LEAVES US WITH A LOT OF CHALLENGING SITES, WHICH SOMETIMES NE NECESSITATE THOSE DEVIATIONS. 
          UM, THIS IS A SIDE NOTE, BUT IT'S REALLY AN IMPORTANT ONE. 
          UM, I JUST MENTIONED CLARITY AND I THINK THE BID IS ON Y'ALL'S AGENDA TOMORROW NIGHT, BUT IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT, AND YOU KNOW, ANDY AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS TOO, BUT UM, YOU KNOW, ASIDE FROM ALL THE CHECKLISTS AND REQUIREMENTS THAT SOMETIMES COMMUNICATION IS A MAJOR, MAJOR FACTOR ON HOW LONG A PROCESS TAKES AND KIND OF A DEVELOPER'S EXPERIENCE. 
          SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK SOME OF OUR FREQUENT FLYER, UM, DEVELOPERS AND ENGINEERS, YOU KNOW, THEY TEND TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE SEAMLESS PROCESS. 
          THEY'RE KIND OF USED TO IT AND THEY KNOW UP FRONT THEY CAN DO THE PRE SUBMITTAL. 
          THEY KIND OF KNOW THE ROPES. 
          AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S A GREAT EXPERIENCE FOR NEW DEVELOPERS, BUT SOMETIMES IT COULD BE ROCKY AS WELL, UM, WHEN THEY'RE JUST NOT REALLY SURE. 
          THIS JUST SEEMS LIKE OVERWHELMING AND, UM, A LOT, LOT OF REQUIREMENTS AND UM, THAT SORT OF THING. 
          BUT, YOU KNOW, COMMUNICATION UP FRONT WITH A PRIEST SUBMITTAL OR EVEN DURING THE WHOLE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, HANDING OFF BETWEEN ZONING AND NEXT STEPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, NATURE CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. 
          UM, COUNCILMAN HEDRICK, WE TALKED ABOUT THE WEBSITE, WHICH AS A SIDE NOTE, WE'RE, UM, WORKING ON THAT KIND OF CLEANING UP SOME THINGS AND MUCH MORE AS WE KIND OF GET ALONG IN CLARITY AND, AND LAUNCH THAT WILL BE DUE FOR A MASSIVE CITY WEBSITE UPDATE CUZ OUR, THE GOAL IS TO REALLY FUNNEL DEVELOPERS AND APPLICANTS EVERYTHING THROUGH THAT PORTAL, INCLUDING EVEN REQUESTING PREEM SUBMITTAL MEETINGS. 
          SO WE CAN REALLY TAKE OFF A LOT OF THESE PAGES THAT ARE JUST, ARE NOT GONNA BE NECESSARY ANYMORE AND KIND OF CONDENSE THAT INFORMATION AND THAT THAT PROCESS THROUGH THROUGH THE SOFTWARE. 
          SO WE REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. 
          UM, SO SOME OPTIONS, I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF SLIDES HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, THE BIG QUESTION OF COURSE, DOES COUNCIL WANNA CONTINUE TO SEE THE DETAILS? UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, TYPICALLY TRIGGERED WHEN IT WITH GC DEVIATIONS AND OR AN U. 
          UM, DO YOU WANNA KEEP IT AS PLAN, COMMISSION AND COUNCIL OR GIVE THE PLAN COMMISSION MORE AUTHORITY OR STAFF AUTHORITY WHEN IT COMES TO PLANS? UM, AND SOME OTHER OPTIONS WORTH MENTIONING, UM, I I MENTIONED KIND OF AS SOME CITIES STILL KIND OF ALLOW THE UPFRONT PD MAYBE WITH THE CONCEPT PLAN, AND WE DON'T EVEN NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE THE CONCEPT PLAN SUBSIDIES. 
          IT'S JUST A PD ONLY. 
          THERE'S NO REAL CONCEPT PLAN EITHER IT'S JUST FOCUSING ON THE REGULATIONS THEMSELVES AND DEVIATIONS AND WHATEVER KIND OF FLEXIBLE STANDARDS A DEVELOPER WANTS TO PROPOSE. 
          UM, SO CONSIDER MAYBE BRINGING THAT BACK AS SORT OF AN UPFRONT OPTION VERSUS, UM, REQUIRING DETAILED PLANS WITH ANY, UH, PD. 
          UM, LET'S SEE. 
          CONSIDER, THIS IS SOMETHING ACTUALLY WE TOUCHED ON AT THE LAST COMMITTEE MEETING. 
          CONSIDER ELIMINATING THE REQUIREMENT FOR DETAIL PLANS. 
          UM, EVEN WHEN A PD REQUIREMENT PD REQUIRES IT, IF THE USE IS ALREADY ALLOWED AND NO DEVIATIONS FROM THE PD OR G ARE 
          [00:40:01]
REQUESTED. 
          UM, YOU SEE SOME DETAIL PLANS COME THROUGH WHERE THE USE IS ALREADY ALLOWED. 
          THE APPLICANT'S NOT ASKING FOR ANY DEVIATIONS WHATSOEVER AND IT'S KIND OF MINISTERIAL REALLY, BUT WE'RE ONLY KIND OF CHECKING THAT BOX CUZ THE PD SAYS A DETAIL PLAN'S REQUIRED THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS. 
          SO SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. 
          HERE'S, YOU KNOW, SOME RECENT EXAMPLES. 
          WITHIN THE LAST YEAR OR SO, THERE WAS THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME ON ROBIN, THERE WAS AN AUTO REPAIR FACILITY ON S SH ONE 90. 
          UM, SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO CON TO CONSIDER SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE PLANNING DIRECTOR ACTUALLY MAY PER THE G MAY WAIVE DETAIL PLANS. 
          SO MAYBE THAT THING I JUST MENTIONED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, NOT REQUIRING DETAILED PLANS IN THOSE INSTANCES WHERE IT MEETS ALL TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS AND ZONING. 
          MAYBE THAT'S A KIND OF A GOOD CRITERIA OR GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHERE A DETAIL PLAN MAY NOT, MAY NOT BE WORTH POSTING AND ZONING SIGNS AND GOING THROUGH THE WHOLE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS FOR SOMETHING THAT REALLY, FRANKLY THE CITY CANNOT DENY. 
          UM, SO, UM, AND JUST AS A REMINDER, WE, WE, UM, LOOK FORWARD TO LAUNCHING CLARITY SOON. 
          SO THERE'RE DEFINITELY GONNA BE SOME PROCESS UPDATES AND, AND JUST OVERHAULS THERE. 
          AND OF COURSE WITH THAT, UPDATING THE WEBSITE AS WE STEER, UM, DEVELOPERS TO THAT. 
          SO IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION COMMITTEE. 
          I THAT'S, THAT'S MY LAST SLIDE. 
          UM, SO WE'LL BE KIND OF GLAD TO OPEN UP TO ANY QUESTIONS AND WE'RE, WE NEED TO BRING BACK INFORMATION AT A FUTURE MEETING. 
          WE'RE HAPPY TO, BUT ALRIGHT, STOP THERE. 
          PAUSE FOR QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE. 
          WELL, OKAY. 
          UM, THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT. 
          UM, ONE QUESTION FIRST I WANTED TO ASK, UM, SEAN, HOW, HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT WHAT AUSTIN IS UP TO RIGHT NOW IS GOING TO, UM, CUT OUR LEGS OUT FROM UNDER US WITH ANYTHING WE'RE DOING RIGHT HERE? ARE WE PRETTY SAFE? OKAY. 
          WELL, SO WE MAY BE HAVING AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY, BUT, UM, ALL RIGHT. 
          I THINK WE'LL KNOW MORE, UM, ONCE WE SEE EVERYTHING THAT GOES TO THE GOVERNOR AT THE END OF THE MONTH, RIGHT? EVERYTHING WILL, ALL THOSE BILLS HAVE, WILL HAVE GONE TO THE GOVERNOR AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A BETTER IDEA, BUT EVEN THEN HE COULD STILL VETO THINGS. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          JUST, JUST WONDERING, UM, WELL START STARTING AT THE END AND MOVING BACK. 
          YEAH, THE, ELIMINATING THE REQUIREMENT FOR DETAIL PLANS, UM, IF THE USE IS ALREADY ALLOWED AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. 
          TO ME, THAT ONLY MAKES SENSE AND, AND THINGS WE CAN'T SAY NO TO, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES. 
          WE SHOULD JUST MAKE ALL THOSE ADMINISTRATIVE DECISIONS. 
          IT IS, UM, AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY TO, TO BRING TO COUNCIL ESPECIALLY, OH, OR PLAN, UH, THINGS THAT WE LEGALLY CAN'T SAY NO TO WITHOUT PUTTING THE CITY IN JEOPARDY OF BEING SUED. 
          SO I WOULD CERTAINLY BE IN FAVOR OF THAT. 
          UM, I, I AM, I OVERALL LIKE THE WAY THAT WE FRONT LOAD THINGS, I THINK IT, IT GETS A LOT OF THINGS DONE WELL AND EFFICIENTLY AND BY THE TIME IT COMES TO US, IT'S PRETTY COMPLETE AND FLESHED OUT. 
          HOWEVER, THE, UM, ALLOWING THE, THE CONCEPT PLAN OPTION UPFRONT THAT WE CHANGED IN 2019, UM, I, I WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST CONSIDER, UH, KIND OF, UH, GOING BACK TO ALLOWING THAT BECAUSE AT LOOKING AT SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES, IT LOOKS LIKE THAT MIGHT, UM, THAT MIGHT BE ALMOST A COMPROMISE POSITION TO MAKE SOME OF OUR PROCESS A LITTLE BIT LESS ONEROUS WITHOUT, UH, REALLY COMPROMISING OVER MUCH OUR, THE, THE INFORMATION WE NEED AND THE QUALITY OF THE PROJECTS THAT, THAT EVENTUALLY COME BEFORE US. 
          SO, UM, AND YEAH, I ALSO WAS KIND OF INTRIGUED BY THE CASE BY CASE, UM, IDEA OF, OF HAVING IT BE ADMINISTRATIVELY, UM, AN OPTION IF IT'S A LOW INTENSITY USE TO LET AN ADMINISTRATIVE, UM, DECISION BE MADE ABOUT HOW, AGAIN, HOW DETAILED OF A PROCESS WE REQUIRE. 
          UM, AND I KNOW THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT AS CUT AND DRIED AS OTHER THINGS, BUT I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE AND WOULD SPEED THINGS ALONG. 
          SO I'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE REST OF THE COMMITTEE FEELS ABOUT THAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          OKAY. 
          UM, I HAVE A QUESTION THAT'S PROBABLY FOR SEAN. 
          UM, SO ON DETAIL PLANS PRESENTED FOR COUNSEL, IS IT POSSIBLE THEY COULD JUST BE PRESENTED AND WE DON'T HAVE TO VOTE ON 'EM, JUST THEY'RE PRESENTED TO US SO WE CAN SEE THEM. 
          UH, WE, WE NEED TO CONSIDER THEM AND THEN YOU, YOU DO NEED TO DECIDE ON THEM NOW IF YOU DON'T DECIDE ON THEM, THEY BECOME APPROVED, UH, WITHIN SO MUCH TIME AFTER THEY WERE PRESENTED TO YOU. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IF THE DETAIL PLANS ARE PRESENTED TO US, THEN, SO WE CAN'T BE AN OPTION FOR US TO, 
          [00:45:01]
NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF, NOT VOTE ON. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, YEAH. 
          AND, AND AS, AS DEBORAH POINTED OUT, YOU KNOW, YEAH, I, I TAKE ISSUE WITH US VOTING ON THINGS THAT, THAT WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I BROUGHT THIS UP TO BEGIN WITH. 
          SO, UM, YEAH, I, I WOULD BE IN, IN FAVOR OF, YOU KNOW, DETAIL PLANS, JUST GOING TO P AND Z AND NOT COMING TO US. 
          UM, I, OF COURSE, I AGREE WITH THE STATEMENT ON THE LAST SLIDE HERE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, IF THE USE IS ALREADY LOUD AND THERE'S NO DEVIATIONS, THEN THERE'S, THERE'S NO REASON TO GO THROUGH THAT. 
          UM, I'M NOT FAMILIAR, FAMILIAR WITH THE COMP CONCEPT PLAN COMPARED TO A DETAILED PLAN. 
          SO I'D, I DON'T KNOW. 
          I MEAN, IF WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S AN OPTION THAT COULD HELP, UM, HELP GET THINGS MOVING FASTER UP FRONT, THEN I'D BE OPEN TO LOOKING AT THAT AND SEEING WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT DID THE CONCEPT PLAN LOOK LIKE, AND, AND THEN OF COURSE WHY DID WE, WHY DID WE DECIDE TO REMOVE THAT A FEW YEARS AGO? UM, BUT YEAH, I DO LIKE OUR FRONT LOADED PROCESS. 
          UM, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T SLOW THINGS DOWN UP FRONT TO THE POINT WHERE IT, YOU KNOW, SCARES DEVELOPMENT OFF AND, AND HINDERS OUR, HINDERS OUR GROWTH OR REDEVELOPMENT. 
          UM, AND IT LOOKS LIKE WITH THE, WITH THE TIMELINES THAT YOU GUYS MM-HMM. 
           POSTED THAT OTHER CITIES ARE SEEING, WE'RE NOT LAGGING BEHIND ANYONE REALLY. 
          SO I'M HAPPY, HAPPY TO SEE THAT. 
          UM, YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S ALL THE FEEDBACK I'VE GOT. 
          SURE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. 
          ALSO. 
          IS IT TRUE THAT WE CAN FORCE, UM, APPLICANTS TO PROVIDE A DETAILED PLAN ON STRAIGHT ZONING CASES? I'M NOT SURE WILL. 
          THAT'S ONE THING YOU MENTIONED DURING YOUR PRESENTATION. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THERE, THERE WAS ONE CASE, THE MULTI-FAMILY CASE WHERE, IF I RECALL THE, THE STRAIGHT ZONING ACTUALLY WAS APPROVED BY COUNSEL, BUT IT WAS WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE ORDINANCE BE BROUGHT BACK AS A PD AND DETAIL PLAN. 
          THE APPLICANT AGREED TO IT. 
          IT TOOK, YOU KNOW, UH, MAYBE A MONTH OR TWO  TO BRING BACK THE FINAL ORDINANCE. 
          BUT THAT WAS, UM, AND THEN THE ORDINANCE, IT WAS A LITTLE UNUSUAL IN THAT THE ORDINANCE, IF I RECALL, WE KIND OF PRESENTED ON THE REGULAR AGENDA VERSUS IT GOING BACK ON CONSENT. 
          UM, JUST, YOU KNOW, TO KIND OF PRESENT THOSE DETAILS. 
          UM, THERE WAS ONE TOWNHOUSE CASE THAT THE, THE REQUEST WAS TO STRAIGHT ZONING SFA, THE PLAN COMMISSION, UM, UH, DENIED IT AND THE APPLICANT ENDED UP KIND OF PAUSING AND, AND, UM, WANTING TO COME BACK AS A PD AND DETAIL PLAN, WHICH ACTUALLY IS A SIDE NOTE, THEY, I THINK A NUMBER OF DEVIATIONS WERE CAUGHT ANYWAY, SO IT MAYBE, IT MAYBE IS INEVITABLE ANYWAY FOR THEM TO COME BACK CUZ SOME THINGS WERE CAUGHT, UH, RATHER THAN, RATHER THAN NOT. 
          UM, SO NO, I MEAN A DETAIL PLAN IS SPECIFICALLY THAT TERM IS SPECIFICALLY ASSOCIATED WITH PLAN DEVELOPMENTS WITH PDS AND THEN SITE PLANS, UH, GO WITH SUVS. 
          BUT, UM, SO NO, A STREET ZONING CASE WOULDN'T INCLUDE THAT. 
          I THINK JUST A COUPLE OF CASES THAT WERE EITHER DENIED OR MAYBE APPROVED WITH A CONDITION THAT COME BACK AS A PD AND DETAIL PLAN. 
          UM, MAYBE THE, THE SAVING GRACE ON THAT MULTI-FAMILY CASE WAS THAT THE APPLICANT AGREED TO IT AND UM, AND CAME BACK WITH THAT ORDINANCE. 
          YEAH. 
          AND HITTING ALL THESE ZONING ENTITLEMENTS DOESN'T RELIEVE THE APPLICANT FROM ANY OF THEIR TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS, DOES IT? NO, BUT THE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS ARE REQUIRED REGARDLESS. 
          IT'S JUST A MATTER OF UPFRONT OR KIND OF MORE ON THE BACK END. 
          RIGHT. 
          JUST A MATTER OF WHERE SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF WHERE ENGINEER REVIEWS FROM THE BEGINNING OF IT TO THE END DOESN'T AFFECT THE QUALITY OF THE, OR THE SAFETY OF THE PUBLIC OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT AS FAR AS ENGINEERING GOES. 
          CORRECT. 
          YEAH. 
          AND IT'S, IT'S KIND OF A GOOD REMINDER LIKE WITH STRAIGHT ZONING CASES, FOR EXAMPLE, IT, IT'S GOTTA STILL GO THROUGH THE SAME TEAM. 
          ALL THE SAME TEAM MEMBERS THAT LOOK AT DETAIL PLANS UP FRONT ARE LOOKING AT THE SITE PERMITTED BUILDING PERMITS AS WELL. 
          UM, ALL G REGULATIONS APPLY. 
          THOSE WILL ALL BE REVIEWED AND, AND PERMIT JUST AS WHAT? JUST AS MUCH AS THEY WOULD. 
          UM, THE ONLY THING TO ADD TO THAT IS THAT THE, YOU'RE CORRECT, THE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS AREN'T, YOU KNOW, GO AWAY ONCE THEY'RE APPROVED. 
          THEY HAVE TO DO THAT AT THE, AT THE LATER STAGE. 
          BUT TO MEET SOME OF THOSE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS TO MAKE IT SAFE OR PER OUR, PER OUR, UH, TECHNICAL STANDARDS MANUAL, THE HOW THEY DESIGN THOSE OR THEY LAY THOSE OUT WILL AFFECT OTHER SITE CONSTRAINTS THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT. 
          SO LIKE SOME OF THE EXAMPLES I SHOWED WHERE THEY HAD TO SHOW, PUT IN A ROAD OR WHATEVER, WHAT HAPPENED TO BE ABLE TO PUT IN THAT ROAD, THEY HAD TO SHRINK A LOT DEPTH. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , WHICH MAYBE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A HUNDRED FOOT AND THEN WENT TO 90 FEET, THAT'S NOW A DEVIATION. 
          SO RIGHT. 
          THAT, UM, IT CAN TRIGGER OTHER THINGS THAT THEY HAVE TO ACCOMPLISH WHEN THAT MAY GENERATE A DEVIATION. 
          IT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF THIS THOUGH, IS THE RISK WHAT THE DEVELOPER WANTS TO TAKE AT WHAT STAGE OF THE PROCESS IF THEIR ENGINEERING'S NOT QUITE UP TO A LEVEL WHERE THEY MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT, YOU MENTIONED, 
          [00:50:01]
UH, SANITARY SEWER RATIOS, THEY HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT WHERE THEIR RANGERS ARE GOING OR THEIR PONDS GOING TO MOVE. 
          THOSE ARE RISKS TO THE DEVELOPER I BELIEVE THAT SHOULD BE PUT UPON THEM AND THEIR QUALITY OF THEIR ENGINEER TO HANDLE UP FRONT. 
          I MEAN THIS IS BASIC SITE DEVELOPMENT WORK. 
          IF YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU GOTTA KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO DRAIN AND HOW YOU'RE GONNA GET UTILITIES TO IT. 
          YOU GOTTA LOOK AT ALL YOUR YEAH, THE MANUAL TO SEE WHAT YOUR RESTRAINTS ARE AND IF THEY COME TO YOU WITH SOMETHING THAT'S, SOME OF THESE PLANS THAT YOU PRESENTED HERE THAT ARE MAYBE NOT UP TO THE QUALITY, THEY HAVEN'T REVIEWED ALL THESE THINGS YET, THAT PUTS THEM AT A GREATER RISK FOR, UH, MY OPINION, A GREATER RISK FOR, UH, DENIAL AT THE COUNCIL LEVEL. 
          IF WE'RE GOING FOR A, UM, WELL NOT DENIAL AT THE COUNCIL LEVEL CUZ WE AREN'T THE TECHNICAL EXPERTS NECESSARILY DENIAL FROM GETTING A PERMIT, A GRADING PERMIT OR A BUILDING PERMIT. 
          UM, I DO LIKE WHAT MCKINNEY'S DONE IT. 
          UH, YOU GET TO A LEVEL, YOU GET YOUR ENTITLEMENT WHERE YOU SAY IT ALLOWS YOU TO CLOSE UPON A PROPERTY EARLY, THEN THEY'RE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT ALL THESE KIND OF ENGINEERING PROBLEMS AND ENGINEERING ISSUES AND MOVE FORWARD. 
          UH, TALKING TO DEVELOPERS AND BEING IN THE BUSINESS MYSELF, THAT'S A MAJOR THING. 
          ONCE THEY GET THOSE ENTITLEMENTS, THEY'RE ABLE TO CLOSE THAT REALLY STARTS THE FUNDING AND THEY GET THEIR, THEY'RE ABLE TO GET THEIR LOAN AT THAT POINT FROM THE BANK. 
          UM, GETTING TO, TO THAT STAGE, WOULD I, IN MY OPINION, GET A LOT MORE DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY RATHER THAN HAVE TO SPEND 30, 40, $50,000 ON ENGINEERING UP FRONT TO GET THOSE ENTITLEMENTS. 
          THEY'RE ABLE TO DO THAT LATER IN THE PROCESS, SPEND THE ENGINEERING DOLLARS LATER IN THE PROCESS AND START MOVING. 
          THEY MIGHT FIND OUT THAT AFTER THEY GET THEIR ENTITLEMENT, IT, WHAT THEIR CONCEPT IS WOULDN'T WORK FOR THAT. 
          WELL THEN THEY MIGHT SELL IT TO ANOTHER PERSON AND THE PROCESS WILL KEEP TURNING AND TURNING OVER. 
          RATHER THAN, I THINK IT WOULD PROMOTE MORE DEVELOPMENT THAT WAY. 
          MORE APPLICANTS WOULD COME IN. 
          WE'D SEE A MORE VARIETY OF, OF THINGS FOR PEOPLE WILLING TO TAKE A GREATER RISK, WHICH I LIKE THE DEVELOPERS WHO LIKE TO TAKE A GREATER RISK ON OUR CITY. 
          AND GETTING THAT ZONING ENTITLEMENT IS VERY IMPORTANT UP FRONT. 
          SO, OH, UM, THE SEPARATION BETWEEN THIS DETAIL PLAN AND THE ZONING, IT'S ALWAYS PAIRED TOGETHER AND IT NEVER SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALWAYS, WE EVEN COMBINE THEM ON OURSELVES ON COUNCIL. 
          WE ALWAYS COMBINE THE TWO ITEMS TOGETHER. 
          UH, WHY DO WE HAVE TO NECESSARILY DO THAT? BECAUSE WE'RE NOT, IF WE REJECT THE ZONING, OF COURSE THEN THE DETAIL PLAN IS AUTOMATICALLY GOING TO BE REJECTED. 
          BUT WE CAN'T NECESSARILY APPROVE THE ZONING AND THEN REJECT THE DETAIL PLAN. 
          I MEAN, I ASSUME WE COULD, IT COULD COME, I BELIEVE IT, IT, IT COULD HAPPEN, IT COULD HAPPEN THAT WAY IF THERE WERE OTHER INSTANCES OR OTHER ISSUES WITH THE PLAN. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT NOT BASED ON THE ZONING. 
          IF YOU'VE APPROVED THE ZONING IN. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO THIS WHOLE, HAVING THEM COMBINE, IT'S, TO ME, THAT WHOLE PROCESS CAN BE PUSHED APART IF THEY'RE ALWAYS, THEY'RE ALWAYS LINKED THAT CLOSELY TOGETHER. 
          WE CAN PUSH THAT LATER IN THE PROCESS. 
          OR SOME OF THESE CITIES HAVE ELIMINATED A COMPLETELY, UH, GOING TO THIS CONCEPT PLAN THAT GIVES US ENOUGH OF AN IDEA, I BELIEVE, TO THAT THIS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO GO WITH. 
          BUT THEN, YEAH, IF THEY HAVE TO LOSE A FEW UNITS IN THE BACK END OR THEIR POND MOVES FROM, WELL IF THE PROBLEM WAS FROM NORTH TO SOUTH, THAT'S AN ENGINEERING, THEY SHOULD HAVE FIGURED THAT UP BEFORE THEY CAME UP WITH THE CONCEPT PLAN. 
          BUT, UH, IF THE SITE CHANGES AROUND THEY'RE HAVING TO MOVE THE SITE, THEN THAT'S IN CONCEPT. 
          THAT IS STILL WHAT WE'RE GETTING. 
          THOSE PLANS WERE VERY SIMILAR. 
          WHETHER THE DRIVEWAY WENT OUT TO THE EAST OR IT GOES TO THE SOUTH AND, YOU KNOW, IN ARAPAHOE TOWN PROJECT OR THE DRIVEWAY'S MOVED AROUND A LITTLE BIT. 
          IT'S IN CONCEPT, VERY SIMILAR NUMBER OF UNITS ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL. 
          NOW. 
          WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE VERY SMALL DETAILS AND THAT'S, I DON'T WANT, UH, DEVELOPMENT NOT TO HAPPEN IN THE CITY BECAUSE OF THAT KIND OF STUFF. 
          THAT, THAT'S KIND OF MY THOUGHTS COMMITTEE. 
          UM, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS ON THE, TO TOUCH ON THE DE THE ZONING AND THE DETAIL PLAN, AND WILL CAN SPEAK TO THIS BETTER THAN I CAN, BUT, UH, BEFORE THE SHOT CLOCK BILL, I BELIEVE THE, THE PDS AND DETAIL PLANS WERE ALL ONE ITEM. 
          AND THEN WHEN THAT, WHEN THE STATE LAW CHANGED, THAT SEPARATED OUT WHERE IT HAD TO BE IN IT, I, I BELIEVE IT HAD TO BE A SEPARATE ITEM, ALTHOUGH IT CAME TOGETHER. 
          UM, SO FROM STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE, THE, THE TRICKY PART FOR US IS THAT LIKE WE DO RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE A PD AND THEN WE HAVE A DETAIL PLAN, RIGHT? THAT COMES THE NEXT ITEM. 
          SO THAT PD IDENTIFIES NARRATIVELY THE DEVIATIONS. 
          BUT IMAGINE IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT DETAIL PLAN, UM, OR IT'S A VERY WATERED DOWN DETAIL PLAN. 
          ONE, WOULD THEY BE ABLE, HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE DEVIATIONS IN THE PD AND THEN TWO, AS AS CLAIM COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL OR THE PUBLIC, WOULD YOU HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO BE COMFORTABLE SAYING, WELL, SF FIVE IS SUPPOSED TO BE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS, THEIR DEVIATION IS 4,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS. 
          WELL, ARE THEY GONNA HAVE ANY PARKING ON THE STREET? ARE THEY GONNA HAVE ENOUGH ROOM FOR UTILITIES? ARE THEY GONNA FIT? SO THAT'S WHERE THE CHALLENGE IS, NUMBER ONE, IDENTIFYING 
          [00:55:01]
THE DEVIATION, BUT THEN ALSO MAKING SURE THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT DEVIATION, RIGHT? FROM SO, SO IN THAT CASE RIGHT THERE, TO ME, THAT'S A RISK TO THE DEVELOPER BECAUSE IF THEY COME TO THE COUNCIL AND SAY, HERE'S A FIGHT, WE, WE CAN DO OUR PROJECT WITH 5,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS AND THIS IS WHAT WE WANT. 
          AND THEN THEY REALIZED THROUGH THE PROCESS, UHOH, WE GOTTA GO BACK TO COUNCIL. 
          WE GOTTA ASK THEM AGAIN. 
          THAT'S A BIG RISK THEY TAKE CUZ WE'RE GONNA SAY, WHAT HAPPENED HERE? WE ALREADY APPROVED YOU ONCE. 
          I DON'T WANNA SEE YOU KEEP COMING BACK IN THIS CUZ THEN, WELL YOU GUYS CAN'T DO YOUR PROJECT NECESSARILY NOW BECAUSE WHAT, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? I MEAN, SOMETHING'S WRONG IN THAT CASE. 
          SO THAT'S A RISK TO THEM. 
          I BELIEVE THAT SHOULD BE PUT ON THE DEVELOPER THERE TO GET THEIR DUCKS IN A ROW BEFORE THEY EVEN COME TO TO COUNCIL. 
          SO THAT LEVEL, AND I THINK SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES THEY ADD IN, THAT'S WHERE I WAS MENTIONING EARLIER, THEY, THEY ADD IN THE EITHER THE PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN OR THE SITE PLAN STEP SO THAT THEY COME WITH THIS CONCEPTUAL IDEA, WHICH DOES PUT MORE OF THE ONUS ON THE DEVELOPER AND THEIR TEAM TO IDENTIFY THOSE DEVIATIONS. 
          STAFF WILL TRY TO CATCH HIGH LEVEL 2D STUFF. 
          UM, BUT THEN IT, ALL OF THE OTHER CITIES THAT WE, OR MOST OF THE OTHER CITIES THAT WE LOOKED AT, IDENTIFY THAT OTHER STEP TO WHERE THEY GIVE THE REST OF THE INFORMATION. 
          BUT THEN THAT DOESN'T, DOESN'T NECESSARILY GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO COUNCIL ONE CUZ IT'S PROBABLY A TIMING THING. 
          IF YOU GO BACK TO PLAN COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL, IT ADDS TIME. 
          BUT UM, BUT THEN IT TAKES GETTING ALL THOSE DEVIATIONS INTO DETAILS AND MOVING THAT AUTHORITY TO, TO EITHER PLAN COMMISSION OR STAFF OR SOMETHING. 
          I, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH A LOT, YOU KNOW, MINOR CHANGES. 
          THEY, THERE WAS A 10% MENTIONED AT ONE POINT FOR PARKING. 
          THAT'S FINE BY ME IF THEY WANT TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE A VARIATION BY 10%, THAT'S FINE. 
          BUT MAJOR OVERALL CHANGES. 
          IF IN A PD IF THEY'RE ADDING MORE RESTRICTION OR ASKING FOR MORE DEVIATIONS, THEN I FEEL LIKE IT WOULD NEED TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. 
          CUZ THEN SOMETHING MAJOR CHANGES. 
          LIKE I SAID, THEY WENT FROM 4,000 TO 5,000. 
          THAT'S A MAJOR CHANGE IN THAT. 
          UH, I, I DO APPRECIATE THE PROCESS WE HAVE CURRENTLY FOR PRE-DEVELOPMENT MEETINGS. 
          WE GET EVERYONE IN THE ROOM AND I'VE BEEN A PART OF THOSE IN GARLAND HERE THAT IT GETS FIRE MARSHAL GETS PLANNING, GETS ENGINEERING, STORMWATER, EVERYTHING ALL TOGETHER, UH, TO TALK ABOUT IT. 
          THESE ISSUES UP FRONT THAT HOPE, YOU KNOW, HELPS THE ENGINEER HOPEFULLY GET A BETTER SITE PLAN BY THAT POINT, GET A BETTER CONCEPT OR, OR WHATEVER WE WANT, WANT TO CALL IT FOR SUBMITTAL. 
          BUT, UM, ANY, ANY, MR. CHAIR AM I, SO AM I HEARING CORRECTLY, I THINK ALL OF US ARE, ARE TRENDING TOWARD THE ALLOWING PDS WITHOUT DETAIL PLANS AS AN UPFRONT OPTION. 
          IS THAT YEAH, JUST I, I'D LIKE THAT TO SEE THAT, TO JUST TO GET THESE ZONING AND THESE ENTITLEMENTS UP EARLY TO GET THEM THROUGH THE ENTITLEMENT PROCESS. 
          LIKE I I'VE SAID UPFRONT, UM, IF THEY WANNA COME BACK LATER WITH DETAILED PLAN, YOU KNOW, I I WOULD BE SOME OF THESE FAVOR. 
          YEAH, I KNOW IT'S A BIG PARADIGM SHIFT FOR WHAT YOU SAID ON ONE OF THE SLIDES THERE, BUT I, I THINK IT, IT, UH, LET'S THE, THE PROCESS HAPPEN FASTER FOR THE DEVELOPERS AND LET, AND LET'S THE INNOVATION IN COMING UP WITH DIFFERENT, UH, CONCEPTS BETTER THAN HAVING TO RISK SO MUCH MONEY THAT THIS MIGHT NOT HAPPEN AND MIGHT NOT WORK AND NOW THEY'RE OUT AND IT, THAT SCARES 'EM OFF NOW IT, IT HAVING KIND OF THAT UPFRONT OPTION PRIOR TO 2019 OF, OF JUST DOING THE PD AND I GUESS AT THE TIME IT USUALLY CAME WITH A CONCEPT PLAN AND THAT COULD BE OPTIONAL. 
          MAYBE THAT, MAYBE IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A CONCEPT PLAN. 
          MAYBE THAT PART IS OPTIONAL IF THEY JUST WANTED TO JUST GET THE USE ENTITLEMENT BUT THEY'RE NOT PREPARED TO DRAW SOMETHING UP. 
          UM, BUT THAT, THAT WAS BENEFICIAL. 
          SOME DEVELOPERS ACTUALLY PREFERRED THAT, EVEN IF IT MEANT HAVING TO COME BACK FOR A DETAILED PLAN THROUGH THE PROCESS. 
          UM, SOMETIMES THEY JUST NEEDED THE ENTITLEMENT TO CLOSE ON THE LAND AND THEN HAVE THE, A DIFFERENT BUYER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS AND KIND OF, I MEAN I I THINK THAT'S GREAT IF WE WANNA SEPARATE DETAILED PLAN AND PDS THAT THEY CAN COME, LIKE IT'S ALWAYS SO CLOSELY TIED TOGETHER THAT THERE'S NEVER ANYTHING TO DISCUSS. 
          AND IF WE DO SEPARATE IT OR DO THEY STILL HAVE THAT SHOT CLOCK RULE THAT APPLIES ON THE RULE APPLY TO THE PLAN OR THE PLAT ONCE IT'S BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE PLAN COMMISSIONER THE PLAN. 
          SO THE DETAIL, IF A DETAILED PLAN WAS SUBMITTED, OKAY, IT APPLIES TO PLATS AND PLANS PLATS AND PLANT. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT IF IT'S A PE PLATS ARE, I'D THINK OF THOSE SEPARATELY CUZ PLATS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM A DETAIL PLAN. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          BUT, BUT IF IT'S REALLY TO PD ONLY ZONING CONSIDERATION ONLY, WE REALLY WOULDN'T HAVE A PLAN WITH IT. 
          NOW IF A CONCEPT PLAN THAT COULD BE TRICKY AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT KIND OF SCARED COUNCIL THE TIME IN 2019. 
          I KNOW THE LOSS IS PLANNED. 
          SO IF WE CALL A CONCEPT PLAN, DO WE HAVE TO PROVE A CONCEPT PLAN AT THAT POINT? I LOOKED AT THE DEFINITION OF PLAN A WHILE AGO AND I, IT SEEMS TO COVER ANY PLAN MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO I'D HAVE TO LOOK INTO IT FURTHER TO SAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT SITE, IT WAS SOMETHING I WAS CONSIDERING WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CONCEPT PLAN VERSUS DETAIL PLAN VERSUS PLAN. 
          UM, SO I'D NEED TO LOOK AT IT CLOSER. 
          OKAY. 
          SO SITE SKETCH OR, SO I DON'T KNOW WHATEVER WE WANT TO CALL IT OR, BUT I'M SURE THAT MIGHT FALL IN THE DEFINITION PLAN TOO. 
          BUT, AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IN, WHEN WE, WHEN THAT WAS COMING 
          [01:00:01]
UP, ENGINEERING IS THE, THE LEADER OF, UH, IN THE PAST WHEN WE HAD CONCEPT PLANS, DEVELOPERS WERE TRYING TO DO A CONCEPTUAL SKETCH FOR NICE WORDS. 
          UM, BUT WE WERE STARTING, WE, WE SAW THINGS ON THERE THAT OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T MEET OUR TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS. 
          THE EASIEST ONES ARE LIKE SPACING IN THE DRIVEWAY, THE NUMBER OF DRIVEWAYS. 
          AND SO WHERE WE GOT CAUGHT WAS IF THEY HAVE A, A SKETCH OR A LAYOUT, THEN WE START IN, HEY, DID YOU THINK ABOUT THIS? DID YOU THINK ABOUT THIS? DID YOU THINK BASICALLY WE'RE REVIEWING THE PLANTS WITHOUT THE DETAILS. 
          SO NOW WE'RE MAKING A BUNCH OF ASSUMPTIONS, WHICH WE CAN DO, BUT WE WERE ALWAYS UNDER THE A LITTLE WORRIED THAT IF THEY HAD A CONCEPTUAL SKETCH, THEN ONCE YOU GO TO CITY COUNCIL, THE FIRST THING THEY'RE GONNA DO, EVEN EVEN TO CITY COUNCIL IS, WELL Y'ALL ARE, Y'ALL SAW IT, WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING THEN? BUT, YOU KNOW, AND YOU APPROVED IT, THE SKETCH. 
          SO WE KIND OF BACKED OFF BACK BEFORE A CONCEPT PLAN WAS REALLY JUST THE OVERALL PROPERTY AND SAY WE WANNA DO MULTI-FAMILY OVER HERE AND HERE'S SOME NARRATIVE DEVIATIONS WE KNOW, OR HERE'S SINGLE FAMILY, BUT WE DON'T WANNA DO ALLEYS BUBBLE PLAN. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE A BUBBLE PLAN. 
          IS THAT A, A DEPARTMENT OF OUR PRE-DEVELOPMENT MEETINGS TO HAVE A SITE SKETCH OR SOMETHING? NOT AT ALL. 
          WE RECOMMEND IT . 
          WE RECOMMEND THEY HAVE SOMETHING AS WE USUALLY TELL 'EM, THE MORE INFORMATION YOU CAN PROVIDE US, THE MORE INFORMATION YOU'LL, OR FEEDBACK YOU'LL, YOU'LL GET IN RETURN. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, BUT, UM, SOME FOLKS ARE JUST KIND OF WANTING TO KICK THE TIRES. 
          THEY HAVE SPECIFIC TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, BUT MM-HMM. 
          , UH, THEY MAY NOT HAVE A SKETCH READY JUST YET. 
          MR. CHAIR, I HAVE THE DEFINITION ACCORDING TO STATE LAW, WHAT A PLAN IS. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, A SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN, INCLUDING A SUBDIVISION PLAN, SUBDIVISION CONSTRUCTION PLAN, SITE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION AND SITE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. 
          SO WE'D HAVE TO DIG INTO EACH OF THOSE TO SEE WHAT EACH OF THOSE ENTAIL. 
          BUT I THINK SHOULD SUBDIVISION, SHOULD PLAN IS MORE ENCOMPASSED PLAT I WOULD, BUT OKAY. 
          THE, THE LANE DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION IS WHERE I, I START THINKING, WHAT IS THAT EXACTLY? WELL, AND AND AS A REMINDER, I THINK AT LEAST ONE SITTING IN MCKINNEY AND MAYBE SOME OTHERS HAVE THE OPTION OF JUST HAVING A PD ONLY THAT DOESN'T NEED A CONCEPT PLAN NECESSARILY. 
          SO THAT MAY BE A ROUTE WE GO IF WE WANT TO, IF HIGH LEVEL THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO BRING BACK, UM, THE IDEA OF JUST HAVING THE A PD USE ENTITLEMENT AND THEN DETAIL PLAN COMES LATER. 
          BUT MAYBE THAT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE TO HAVE A CONCEPT PLAN OR MAYBE WE JUST IN WORDS, THEY CAN DEFINE WHAT DEVIATIONS THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AT THAT POINT. 
          CORRECT. 
          CORRECT. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, MM-HMM. 
          , GET THEM THROUGH THEIR PROCESS FASTER. 
          MM-HMM. 
           AT LEAST GET TO THE MONEY FASTER, SO. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , UM, WELL WE'RE PUSHING FIVE O'CLOCK ALREADY. 
          WE'RE PAST FIVE O'CLOCK. 
          UM, I THINK WE CAN, WE HAVE SOME THINGS TO THINK ABOUT THEN. 
          DO WE WANT TO TABLE THIS ITEM TO OUR NEXT, UH, COMMITTEE MEETING? THEN WE'LL GET A FEW DEFINITIONS BACK TO US. 
          AND IF YOU WOULD PLEASE SEND US THE SLIDES. 
          I'D LIKE TO REVIEW 'EM AS WELL. 
          OF COURSE. 
          WE HAVE TWO MORE ITEMS ON HERE. 
          WE'LL, TABLE AS WELL, I ASSUME. 
          LET'S TABLE OUR ITEM TWO C, WHICH IS OUR HYBRID ZONING DESIGNATION AND 2D, WHICH IS CHAPTER THREE, A AGREEMENTS TO INCENTIVIZE MAJOR HOME RENOVATION. 
          SO IF THERE'S ANY OBJECTIONS TO TABLING THOSE ITEMS? NO. 
          ALRIGHT, WELL THEN MOVE TO OUR LAST ITEM. 
          IT'S ITEM NUMBER THREE, ADJOURNED AT 5 0 6. 
          WE ARE ADJOURNED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.