WELCOME TO THE JULY 17TH, 2023
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MEETING OF THE[Development Services Committee on July 17, 2023.]
GARLAND CITY COUNCIL DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE.I'M MYSELF THE CHAIRMAN, DYLAN HEDRICK.
WITH ME, I HAVE MAYOR PROAM, JEFF BASS, AND COUNCIL MEMBER MORRIS.
FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 19TH, 2023 MEETING.
NEXT ITEM IS OUR PUBLIC COMMENTS.
WE HAVE ANYONE, I DON'T SEE ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC HERE WHO WANTS TO SPEAK IF THEY COME IN DURING ONE OF OUR OTHER ITEMS. WE'LL MAKE TIME FOR THAT.
AND THE NEXT ITEM FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION IS TO DISCUSS POLICY OPTIONS FOR THE REUSE OF VACANT COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS AND THINK WE HAVE A STAFF PRESENTATION OR SOMEONE COME SPEAK.
I'M, UH, I'M, I'M THE, I'M THE VOL.
OF MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ASKED TO DO RESEARCH ABOUT THIS.
COUNCIL MEMBERS, UM, I BELIEVE THIS CAME UP.
I COUNCILMAN LUCK, I BELIEVE BROUGHT THIS UP.
UM, AS A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION, UM, REALLY I THINK WHAT, AS STAFF, WE'VE KIND OF POKED AROUND AND DONE SOME RESEARCH, BUT WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR SOME SPECIFIC DIRECTION ON WHAT, WHAT THE GOALS ARE SO WE CAN HELP TRY TO HELP DO BETTER RESEARCH AND CRAFT, UM, SOME INFORMATION TO BRING BACK TO YOU.
BUT I BELIEVE THE CONCEPT IS IN SOME OTHER CITIES AROUND THE STATE OF TEXAS, AND OF COURSE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, HAVE ADOPTED VACANT BUILDING ORDINANCES.
UM, THE MAJORITY OF THEM REGISTER BUILDINGS THAT ARE VACANT OR ARE PERCENTAGE VACANT.
THERE'S A CRITERIA DEPENDING ON WHAT ORDINANCE YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
UM, THEY CHARGE USUALLY A FEE.
THERE'S USUALLY ENHANCED SOME INSPECTIONS OF SOME KIND CODE COMPLIANCE OR FIRE OR BUILDING OR ALL THREE OF THOSE THINGS ON A REGULAR BASIS.
AND THEN THERE'S DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT VARIABLES.
SOMETIMES THERE'S AN INSURANCE, UH, PROOF OF INSURANCE REQUIREMENT, SOME OTHER CRITERIA TO MAKE SURE THE BUILDING IS PROTECTED DURING THE DURATION THAT IT'S VACANT.
UM, I THINK THERE WAS SOME PRELIMINARY, PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IS THERE, LIKE, THE LONGER IT'S VACANT, ARE THERE OTHER THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN? UM, I'VE SEEN FROM THE LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH I'VE DONE, THE CITY OF KILLEEN IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.
THEY RECENTLY, SOMEWHAT, SOMEWHAT RECENTLY ADOPTED AN ORDINANCE FOR THEIR DOWNTOWN AREA ONLY FOR THIS.
AND IT'S ONLY COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, AND THEY HAVE AN, UH, INCREASED FEE SCHEDULE.
SO AS THE YEARS TICK BY, THERE'S ADDITIONAL FEES THAT, THAT GET ADDED ON EVERY YEAR FOR THE, THE RE-REGISTRATION PROCESS.
UM, BUT ESSENTIALLY IT'S JUST ENHANCED CODE AND ENFORCEMENT THROUGH THE MODELS I'VE SEEN.
THERE HASN'T BEEN ANYTHING THAT WOULD FORCE REDEVELOPMENT OR REUSE THAT I'VE FOUND SO FAR IN ANY OF THE ORDINANCES I'VE SEEN.
SO I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS BASED ON THE RESEARCH I'VE DONE, IF I CAN, OR GET BETTER DIRECTION AS FAR AS WHAT YOU MIGHT LIKE US TO, TO PUT TOGETHER AND BRING BACK.
I FAILED TO MENTION AT THE TOP, WE DO HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER LUCK JOINING US TODAY IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR ON THIS ITEM? YEAH.
BASICALLY HOW TO, UM, DEAL WITH VACANT PROPERTIES, ESPECIALLY IN CATALYST AREAS, UM, DOWNTOWN, UM, ANYWHERE THAT'S PART OF A TIFF SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO DO DEVELOPMENT, IT CAN HAPPEN WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN TRY TO GET THOSE THINGS DONE.
IT'S HARD TO MAKE A, A LAND OWNER, A PROPERTY OWNER THAT DOESN'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING WITH SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING.
UM, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S REALLY ABOUT MAKING THEM DO SOMETHING, BUT IT'S GIVING, MAYBE GIVING THEM ANOTHER OPTION AS TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK, WE, WE WANT SOMETHING TO HAPPEN HERE.
AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE PUSH A LITTLE BIT IN SOME WAY.
DOES ANY COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? COUNCIL LADY MORRIS.
UM, ARE WE USING MIKE OR MIC? THEY'RE ON NOW.
UM, WELL, I'M ALSO INTERESTED IN THIS, AND I THINK MOST OF YOU ALL KNOW, I SPENT CONSIDERABLE TIME RESEARCHING DOWNTOWN ORDINANCES DESIGNED TO ADDRESS VACANT BUILDINGS BECAUSE OF OUR LONG TERM, UH, WHAT I BELIEVE IS VACANT, UH, BUILDING WITH THE JONES HARDWARE STORE.
AND THE, THE THING I RAN INTO, UM, OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS THE DEFINITION OF VACANT.
BECAUSE IN MOST OF THE ORDINANCES AND BREED, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW THIS AS WELL, MOST OF THE ORDINANCES, UM, THE VACANT INCLUDED THINGS LIKE NOBODY WAS GOING IN AND OUT, AND THAT THE UTILITIES WERE TURNED OFF, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH ISN'T
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WHAT WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE.UM, SO DOWNTOWN AREA OR NOT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T, UH, LEGALLY FORCE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS INCLUDING COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES TO DO SOMETHING IF THEY WANNA SIT ON A BUILDING AND PUTTER IN IT.
UM, OUR HANDS ARE LARGELY TIED FROM WHAT WE'VE HEARD AND FROM, AND LEGAL CAN SPEAK TO THIS, BUT THERE AREN'T JUST ANY NICE, NEAT TIE OF BOW ON IT WAYS TO, UH, OTHER THAN ENHANCE CODE ENFORCEMENT, UM, TO, TO MAKE THEM COME UP TO STANDARDS SO THEY'RE NOT BASICALLY A DANGER TO OTHER SURROUNDING, UM, BUSINESSES.
SO I LIKE THE IDEA OF, I, I HAVE WONDERED IF THERE IS SOME OTHER WAY OF DEFINING VACANT THAT COULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT A BUILDING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, IN A CERTAIN, LIKE A DOWNTOWN AREA THAT'S NOT, UM, THAT'S NOT BEING, THAT'S NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC EVER.
YOU KNOW, COULD, COULD THAT COULD VACANT BE EXPANDED TO SAY IF IT'S IN A CERTAIN ZONE THAT IT HAS TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC 15 HOURS A WEEK OR SOMETHING.
I'M SURE WE'LL HEAR, UH,
IS THAT NOT LEGAL? COULD WE DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT? SO THERE IS ACTUALLY A, A STATE STATUTE THAT COVERS THE REGISTRATION REQUIREMENT OF VACANT BUILDINGS, AND IT'S UNDER LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE 2 14, 2 31, 2 3, 2 2 3, 3, 2, 3, 4.
A BUILDING IS PRESUMED TO BE VACANT UNDER THE SUBCHAPTER IF ALL LAWFUL RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL, RECREATIONAL CHARITABLE OR CONSTRUC CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY AT THE BUILDING HAS SEIZED OR REASONABLY APPEARS TO HAVE SEIZED FOR MORE THAN 150 DAYS.
SO THE DEFINITION'S ESTABLISHED, IT'S IN THE STATUTE BY THE STATE.
UH, THE STATE ALLOWS A MUNICIPALITY THAT EXISTS WITHIN A COUNTY OF AT LEAST 2 MILLION RIGHT NOW.
UH, EFFECTIVE SEPTEMBER ONE, IT GOES TO 2.5, STILL COVERS US.
WE'RE VERY SAFE
DID I HEAR THAT RIGHT? CORRECT.
SO THAT THE STATE DEFINITION OF VACANT THOUGH, SO AGAIN, HAVING GONE DOWN THIS RABBIT TRAIL, UM, A NUMBER OF TIMES, READ THAT LIST OF THINGS THAT IN THAT DEFINITION YES, MA'AM.
ALL LAWFUL RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, RECREATIONAL, CHARITABLE OR CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY AT THE BUILDING HAS CEASED OR REASONABLY APPEARS TO HAVE CEASED FOR MORE THAN 150 DAYS.
SO AGAIN, USING, USING THE JONES HARDWARE AS AN EXAMPLE, PART OF THEIR THING WAS THEY'RE USING IT AS AN OFFICE, PRIVATE OFFICE, UM, AND THAT THEY GO IN EVERY DAY AND HAVE USED IT AS AN OFFICE.
UM, SO, WHICH WOULD SEEM TO SAY THEY WERE SAYING IT WAS NOT VACANT, AND THAT THEY GO IN AND OUT AND EVERYBODY SEES 'EM GO IN AND OUT.
SO, UH, ANYWAY, WELL, THAT, THAT'S JUST A ONE SPECIFIC CASE.
MOST CASES ARE NOT LIKE THAT ONE.
UM, IF A, IF A BUILDING HAS BEEN ABANDONED, THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF IF ALL, IF THE, THE UTILITIES ARE TURNED OFF, ALL ACTIVITY IS CEASED FOR 150 DAYS, IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT OPENS THE DOOR, UH, EASILY FOR US TO, UM, START THIS REGISTRATION PROCESS AND ESCALATING, UM, FEES OVER TIME AND PROOF OF INSURANCE AND, UM, AND ESCALATING CODE INSPECTIONS OR, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S SAFE.
I LIKE THE, I LOVE THE IDEA OF DOING THAT, UH, WITHIN THE LEGAL CONFINES.
UM, SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF THAT IF WE COULD.
MR. CHAIRMAN, MAY I ELABORATE ON ONE OTHER PART OF THE LAW HERE? SURE.
THE FORM ADOPTED MAY REQUIRE THE DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION REASONABLY NECESSARY FOR THE MUNICIPALITY TO MINIMIZE THE THREAT TO HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE THAT A VACANT BUILDING MAY PRESENT TO THE PUBLIC.
SO THAT, THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE FORM.
AND THEN I KNOW LIKE IN ARLINGTON, IN THEIR ORDINANCE, I BELIEVE THEY REQUIRE A MAINTENANCE PLAN AND THEY HAVE MONTHLY, OR AT LEAST ANNUAL INSPECTIONS, UM, THE LIMITED RESEARCH WE DID ON THIS TODAY.
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OKAY.AND THIS, THIS HAS ACTUALLY BEEN BROUGHT UP TO ME QUITE A BIT IN, UH, MY DISTRICT AT THE MATT'S RESTAURANT THAT'S OUT OF BUSINESS.
UM, WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD, THE POLICE HAD TO HAVE THE PROPERTY OWNER GO AND BOARD UP BECAUSE IT WAS, IT WAS A HOMELESS HOSTILE.
THERE WERE, THERE WERE, IT WAS FULL OF HOMELESS LIVING IN IT.
SO I'VE HAD A LOT OF FEEDBACK ON THAT.
UM, SO I AM IN FAVOR NOW, JUST TO CONFIRM.
FIRST OF ALL, WE, WE DO NOT HAVE A VACANT BUILDING REGISTRY AS OF YET, CORRECT? WELL, WE DO NOT HAVE A REGISTRY, SO MIGHT BE HELPFUL IF I JUST KIND OF BRIEF ON WHAT I'VE FOUND SO FAR.
SO THIS IS BY NO MEANS A COMPLETE LIST.
AND I'VE CALLED AROUND AND I'M WAITING FOR SOME PHONE CALLS.
BUT FOR THE FEW THAT WE'VE FOUND LOCAL, SOMEWHAT LOCALLY, WE DO HAVE IN OUR, UM, PROPERTY MAINTENANCE FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IN THE CITY, WE HAVE AN ABANDONED, RICK MIGHT HAVE TO HELP ME WITH THIS.
I THINK IT'S ABANDONED, DISTRESSED, DISTRESSED PROPERTY PROVISION FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT LIKE THIS, BUT JUST FOR RESIDENTIAL.
AND, UM, WE DON'T ACTUALLY REGISTER THEM ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE.
WE JUST HA WE HANDLE ANY ISSUES WITH THOSE KIND OF PROPERTIES AS PART OF OUR REGULAR CODE COMPLIANCE PROCESS.
BUT WE DO HAVE SOMETHING ON THE BOOKS FOR DISTRESSED PROPERTIES FOR RESIDENTIAL ONLY FOR CITY OF GARLAND.
SO THAT'S THE EXTENT OF IT AT THIS POINT IN, IN TIME HERE.
UM, SO A COUPLE OF THE ONES THAT KIND OF COME TO LIGHT LOCALLY THAT, THAT POP UP.
UM, SO CITY OF LOUISVILLE, UM, I WAS ACTUALLY ABLE TO TOUCH BASE WITH THEIR KOCH COMPLIANCE MANAGER TODAY.
UM, THEY HAVE A, A RELATIVELY NEW ORDINANCE.
UM, THEY HAVE THEIR ORDINANCE ONLINE.
THEY HAVE A REGISTRATION FORM ONLINE.
THEY CHARGE A HUNDRED DOLLARS PER PROPERTY.
BUT I, I WOULD HAVE TO CHECK AGAIN.
THEY, THEY DISCOVER THESE THINGS BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY THEM SOMETIMES, ESPECIALLY HE SAID RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, WHICH ARE HARD TO SEE IF THEY'RE VACANT OR NOT.
UM, THEY IDENTIFY THEM BY UTILITY SHUTOFFS WHEN THEY CAN, COMPLAINTS AND THEN DISCOVERED BY THEIR REGULAR ROUTINE INSPECTIONS.
AND THEY'RE HANDLED ESSENTIALLY LIKE CODE ENFORCEMENT CASES OR HANDLED BY THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FOR THAT AREA.
UM, THEY HAVE ABOUT 20 CURRENTLY REGISTERED.
THEY KNOW THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THEM ALL IN THE REGISTRY.
THEY DO THE BEST THEY CAN TO REGISTER THEM BASED ON THE DATA THAT THEY CAN FIND, UM, ARLINGTON.
SO I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE AN ORDINANCE, BUT I CAN'T FIND ANY FEES OR CAN'T FIND A REGISTRATION FORM AT ALL FROM THEIR CITY.
AND SO I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE IF THEY'RE STILL ACTIVELY MANAGING THE PROGRAM, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE AN ORDINANCE ON THE BOOKS.
AND SO I'M WAITING FOR A PHONE CALL BACK FROM THEM.
THAT ORDINANCE WAS PUT IN PLACE IN 2008, WHICH IS, I GUESS COMMON WITH THESE BECAUSE IT, THESE STARTED POPPING UP MORE WHEN THE, THE HOUSING CRISIS HAPPENED AND THERE WAS FORECLOSURES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO YOU SAW A LOT OF ORDINANCES RIGHT AROUND THAT TIME.
UM, I, SO CITY OF DALLAS ALSO HAS AN ORDINANCE.
I ACTUALLY TALKED TO THEIR FOLKS TODAY.
UH, THEIR, THE PERSON WHO MANAGES THIS, AND HE SAID THAT THEY ACTUALLY NEVER IN, THEY NEVER, EVEN THOUGH THEY PASSED AN ORDINANCE, THEY NEVER INITIATED REGISTERING VACANT PROPERTIES.
UM, WHAT THEY DO HAVE IS THEY HAVE A, HE RUNS THIS THREE PERSON TEAM THAT BASICALLY, UM, MANAGES, AND I FORGET THE, WHAT HE CALLED THEM, UM, EGREGIOUS COMMERCIAL, VACANT, VACANT, EGREGIOUSLY VACANT AND NOT WELL TAKEN CARE OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES.
AND HE SAID THAT THEY HAVE ABOUT 50 CURRENTLY THAT ARE ON THEIR LIST.
HE KNOWS THAT THERE'S A LOT MORE, SINCE IT'S SUCH A LARGE CITY.
BUT THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE CONSISTENTLY BEING MANAGED BY THAT DEPARTMENT.
AND THEN A BUNCH OF OTHER AFFILIATED DEPARTMENTS, SOME LIKE POLICE AND OTHER FOLKS LIKE THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO PRESERVE SAFETY AND KEEP THESE THINGS FROM BECOMING WORSE THAN THEY ARE BASICALLY.
UM, AND THEN COLLEEN, WHICH I MENTIONED THEY HAVE THAT ORDINANCE.
UM, I'M WAITING ON A PHONE CALL FROM THEM AS WELL.
UM, I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A MAP, SO I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TRACKED THEM AND I DON'T KNOW HOW OLD THAT MAP IS, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY'RE ACTIVELY DOING SOMETHING WITH THAT.
THEY ALSO HAVE THAT VERY PROGRESSIVE, UH, FEE, UM, MATRIX WHERE IT GOES UP, IT'S $500 A YEAR FOR THE FIRST YEAR, AND THEN IT INCREASES BY $50 EACH YEAR.
PLUS THERE'S AN INSPECTION FEE PER SQUARE FOOT AND A AND A LATE FEE AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS THAT THEY, THEY CHARGE.
AND THAT IS ONLY FOR THEIR HISTORIC, UM, DOWNTOWN, WHICH I THINK IS LIKE SEVEN SQUARE BLOCKS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO IT'S FOR A VERY LIMITED AREA OF THE CITY.
UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT I FOUND OUT SO FAR.
THERE'S THE PEOPLE WHO I THINK HAVE BEEN DOING SOME RESEARCH AS WELL, BUT I THINK THAT'S HIGHLIGHT HIGH, HIGH LEVEL SUMMARY AT THIS POINT.
AND IF, IF I CAN ASK MR. CHAIRMAN A CLARIFYING QUESTION OR MAYBE A, A DIFFERENT LEG OF THIS DISCUSSION AND VERY HELPFUL.
I THINK WITH THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE, I THINK THAT THAT PROVIDES A GREAT DEAL OF CLARITY AND, AND FOCUS ON HOW THIS COULD GO.
BUT I THINK SOME OF THE OTHER DISCUSSIONS HAVE BEEN CENTERED AROUND TO A CERTAIN DEGREE RELATED TO, UM, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TYPE ATTRIBUTES.
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AND SOME OF THE ORDINANCE HAVE, HAVE REFLECTED THAT, THAT A PROPERTY HAS TO BE ACTIVELY MARKETED ONCE IT'S BEEN DETERMINED.AND SO I THOUGHT THAT WOULD GET SOME DISCUSSION ON THAT.
I THINK THAT'S A, A LITTLE TRICKIER, HOW, WHERE, WHERE DOES THAT STORY END AND WHAT'S THE ENFORCEABILITY AND, AND WHERE ARE, YOU KNOW, ANY, ANY TEETH OR, OR PUNITIVE MEASURES SHOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT'S PART OF THIS ENDEAVOR? THANKS, MR. CHAIR.
WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF DISCUSSION ON THAT TODAY.
WE BELIEVE WE'RE GONNA BE PREEMPTED.
AND WE START LOOKING AT LEASES AND WHATNOT.
SO THE SUPER PREEMPTION BILL'S PROBABLY GONNA PREVENT US FROM DOING MUCH WITH THAT ONE.
BUT DOESN'T APPEAR TO YET IN REGARDS TO THE HEALTH, HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELLBEING COMPONENT OF WHAT YOU READ EARLIER? UH, NO.
DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE NOT HERE.
AND THEN KEEP IN MIND ALSO THAT, UH, CHAPTER 54, I BELIEVE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE HAS AN ABATEMENT.
IF WE HAVE HEALTH ISSUES AT A PROPERTY FOR CODE THAT WE ALREADY HAVE AVAILABLE TO US UNDER STATE LAW WITHOUT NEEDING AN ORDINANCE OR REGISTRATION TO BE PASSED, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
UM, FROM WHAT I'M SEEING HERE, SEVERAL QUESTIONS TO THE COMMITTEE.
FIRST ONE OVERALL IS DO WE WANT TO REQUIRE REGISTRATION OF VACANT BUILDINGS? THE SECOND ONE IS, IF WE DO SO, THEN DO WE DO IT ONLY IN CERTAIN DISTRICT OR CITYWIDE HOW MUCH TO CHARGE? I'VE SEEN OTHER CITIES FLAT FEE.
THERE'S INSPECTION FEES AS WELL.
AND WHAT KIND OF REGULATIONS GO INTO THAT REQUIRING INSURANCE, REQUIRING EMERGENCY CONTACT.
I'M SEEING HERE SOME CITIES DO THAT, UH, THAT SORT OF THING THAT GOES TO THE HEALTH SAFETY AND WELFARE THAT YOU WERE SPEAKING ABOUT EARLIER THOUGH.
DO WE, HOW, WHAT DOES IT COMMUNITY THINK? DO WE WANT TO REQUIRE REGISTRATION OF THESE VACANT BUILDINGS? YES, I DO.
NOW IS IT SOMETHING CAN BE DONE CITYWIDE OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE CERTAIN DISTRICT? CUZ SOME OF THE MODELS, UH, DALLAS HAS IT ONLY IN THEIR CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.
SOUNDS LIKE OTHER CITIES HAVE IT ONLY IN THEIR DOWNTOWN OR HISTORICAL AREAS.
CAN WE DO THAT, UH, STARTING THERE? OR DO WE WANNA GO TRY CITYWIDE? IS THAT A LEGAL ISSUE WITH THAT? UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT CITYWIDE.
I THINK THE, THE CONCERN FOR, FOR ME, I MEAN I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW THIS, AS ANDY WAS SAYING, THERE'S A TWOFOLD THING HERE, RIGHT? ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND PUBLIC SAFETY.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK THE FIRST ISSUE TO ADDRESS IS PUBLIC SAFETY AND PUBLIC SAFETY WOULD THEN BE NECESSARY FOR IT TO BE CITYWIDE.
IF I COULD MAKE A RE MAKE A REQUEST, SINCE WE'RE GONNA DO SOME ADDITIONAL, NOW THAT WE'VE, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE GETTING SOME GOOD FOCUS, DO SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH, COULD WE BE PERMITTED A LITTLE BIT OF DUE DILIGENCE ON OUR SIDE TO SEE WHAT THAT WORKLOAD MIGHT LOOK LIKE? YEAH.
IF IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S RUNNING THROUGH CODE COMPLIANCE AND HOW OFTEN INSPECTIONS WOULD OCCUR AND WHAT THE BURDEN ON THEM WOULD BE IS.
SO PERHAPS MAYBE IF, LET'S SAY WE DO DETERMINE THERE IS A WORKLOAD CHALLENGE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WHAT MIGHT MAKE SENSE IS THE SPECIAL DISTRICTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN ADOPTED, WHETHER IT'S A CATALYST AREA DOWNTOWN THAT WAY, CUZ WE HAVE, WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED THOSE AS A, AS IMPORTANT TO US FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.
AND CLEARLY HAVING, YOU KNOW, SHOULD A, A BUILDING BE VACANT THAT'S, THAT IS WHAT IT IS.
BUT IT SHOULD ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, LOOK NICE AND BE SAFE REGARDLESS IN THOSE CATA CITYWIDE OBVIOUSLY.
BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GREAT PLACE TO START.
UM, FROM A WORKLOAD STANDPOINT, COUNCIL MEMBER LUCK, UM, MAYBE TIFF AREAS MIGHT BE A GOOD PLACE TO START.
YEAH, AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE, I MEAN, THERE, THAT'S, WE, WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED THAT AS OUR SPECIAL DISTRICT, SO YEAH, CORRECT.
BUT I THINK BOTH CAUSE THERE IS SOME OVERLAP AND NOT OVERLAP.
SO WE COULD ABSOLUTELY, UM, EASILY MAP THAT OUT WITH GIS, UM, AS A TOOL TO KIND OF, AND THEN DO SOME SAMPLING AND LOOK AT SOME CASES THAT WE MIGHT ALREADY BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY AS VACANT.
BUT, AND PERHAPS THE SHARPENED UP ORDINANCE WOULD GIVE US A TARGETED EFFORT TO ADDRESS THOSE MORE AGGRESSIVELY.
AND I LIKE JEFF, I WOULD, I WOULD PREFER TO SEE THIS CITYWIDE IF WE COULD DO IT, BUT WE CAN'T DROWN OUR CODE DEPARTMENT.
UNLESS, UNLESS LIKE OVERLY ANNOYANCE
SO IF WE, IF WE HAVE TO START WITH A NARROWER GROUP, THEN CATALYST AREAS AND TIFF AREAS ARE MAKE SENSE? I I'M AFRAID THAT WOULD LEAVE MATT'S RANCHERO OUT.
UM, WELL, SO AS WELL AS COMPLAINT DRIVEN.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THAT ONE, EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING WITH THAT IS COMPLAINT DRIVEN.
UM, SO WE COULD EASILY ADD THAT TO IT.
UM, BUT ONE THING, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, AS FAR AS THE NUMBERS OF THESE GO, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
IT'S JUST AN ARBITRARY NUMBER.
AND WE DON'T KNOW AT WHAT POINT CODE IS GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE OVERWHELMED WITH THIS.
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WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, HOW MUCH ENFORCEMENT WE'RE GONNA HAVE, HOW OFTEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE IT.SO YEAH, I'D LIKE MAYBE IF, IF WE COULD LOOK AT, UM, AN ESTIMATE OF CITYWIDE, WHAT DO WE THINK THIS IS? AND I DON'T KNOW HOW EASY IT IS TO PULL UP, YOU KNOW, UTILITY CANCELLATIONS IN THE LAST 180 DAYS OR WHATEVER, THAT KIND OF STUFF.
UM, WE COULD SEE HOW BIG A PROBLEM PROBLEM IT IS.
WE COULD, UM, SEE HOW THAT MESHES WITH, YOU KNOW, HOW OFTEN WE WANT TO DO WE WANNA GO TO 'EM EVERY THREE MONTHS, SIX MONTHS, 12 MONTHS? AT WHAT POINT WOULD THAT NUMBER OVERLOAD CODE? SO YEAH, I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME OF THAT INFORMATION AND, AND THEN WE CAN MAKE BETTER DECISIONS.
ACTUALLY MATT'S IS IN THE, IN THE ONE 90 CORRIDOR.
IF IT'S IN A PORT CATALYST AREA.
OH, I WAS GONNA SAY, OH, THAT'S CONSIDERED AREA, CATALYST AREA.
I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT JUST A, A FAIRNESS ISSUE.
IF WE HAVE ONE PROPERTY THAT'S ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET THAT'S IN AN AREA AND YOU HAVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET THAT'S NOT, AND YOU HAVE AN ISSUE THERE WITH, UH, ONE PERSON HAS TO REGISTER AND WE PUT IN A FEE AND A A BURDEN ON THAT OWNER AND WE'RE NOT ON EXACTLY THE SAME SITUATION THAT'S SIMILARLY LOCATED.
SO THAT'S, UH, ONE OF MY CONCERN IF WE DON'T GO CITYWIDE OTHER THAN THAT RESTRICTED TO A VERY SMALL AREA LIKE JUST A DOWNTOWN DISTRICT LIKE SOME OF THESE OTHER CITIES HAD, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF FOCUSED KIND OF, UM, AREA.
I THINK OUR CODE, I'M SURE THERE'S CODE VIOLATIONS AT THE MATS LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT, THAT OTHER, OTHER ISSUES CAN COME INTO PLAY THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THROUGH OTHER AVENUES RATHER THAN HAVING MAYBE THIS ORDINANCE.
BUT, UM, I'M INTERESTED TO SEE MORE INFORMATION.
YOU GUYS COME BACK WITH MORE INFORMATION.
YEAH, NO, THAT'S A FAIR POINT.
SO IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OR DO WE WANT TO TABLE THIS ITEM TILL OUR NEXT MEETING AND WAIT FOR MORE INFORMATION? YEAH, I THINK I'M GOOD FOR NOW.
AND WE WILL TABLE THAT ONE AND THEN MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM B, CONVERSIONS TO AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR USES SLIDES OVER ONE SEAT AND MR. GARRIN JOINS US.
I DON'T HAVE A PARTICULAR GOOD AFTERNOON BY THE WAY, COMMITTEE.
I DON'T HAVE A PARTICULAR PRESENTATION EITHER.
UM, BUT KIND OF SIMILAR, UM, TO THE LAST ITEM.
UM, THIS WAS, UH, THIS I ITEM WAS BROUGHT UP IN A WORK SESSION AS A FUTURE AGENDA ITEM AND I BELIEVE IT WAS, UM, REQUESTED BY A COUNCILMAN OTT.
AND, UM, THE BACKGROUND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, UM, IS PRIMARILY CAR WASHES.
I THINK IN ONE EXAMPLE, UH, HE GAVE TO STAFF WAS A CONVENIENT STORE, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, UH, THE CONCERN BEING CAR WASHES THAT FAIL OR MAY IN THE NEAR FUTURE FAIL AND THEY OFTEN CONVERT, UH, TO, UM, AUTOMOTIVE USES, UM, AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR, UH, MINOR AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR SEEMS TO BE KIND OF THE COMMON THEME.
WE'VE SEEN A FEW EXAMPLES OF, OF THAT.
UM, BRITA, UH, HAS HAS A FEW EXAMPLES TO GIVE AND I KIND OF, SHE DOES AS WELL.
UM, WENT THROUGH A LIST THAT COUNCILMAN OT HAD PROVIDED AND KIND OF HAVE THE ZONING DISTRICTS AVAILABLE AND KIND OF, YOU KNOW, CONFIRMING THAT THOSE WERE ALLOWED IF THEY WERE ALLOWED TO CONVERT.
UM, SO COUNCILMAN OT HAD MENTIONED A FEW EXAMPLES OF WHERE THAT'S HAPPENED.
AND THEN A FEW EXAMPLES AS WELL OF, OF, UM, SORT OF AT RISK PROPERTIES AS HE CALL, HE'S CALLED THEM THAT WHERE CAR WASHES ARE, UM, KIND OF RUN DOWN AND NOT DOING WELL.
THEY IN SOME CASES HAVE FOR SALE SIGNS ALREADY OUT FRONT, EVEN IF THEY'RE, UM, STILL OPERATING AT THE MOMENT.
UM, AND THEN THERE WAS ONE SUCCESS EXAMPLE ACTUALLY WHERE A CAR WASH DID CLOSE AND WAS TORN DOWN AND, UH, REDEVELOPED IT WAS AUTO REPAIR, BUT THAT'S, IT'S IN AN INDUSTRIAL ZONED, UM, AN INDUSTRIAL ZONED PROPERTY.
SO THAT, THAT WAS THE CONCERN THAT WAS RAISED.
UM, SIMILAR TO THE LAST ITEM, WE DON'T HAVE A PARTICULAR STAFF RECOMMENDATION AT THIS TIME.
WE JUST KIND OF WANT TO KICK OFF THE DISCUSSION AND SEE WHAT KIND OF DIRECTION, UM, THE COMMITTEE MAY, UH, MAY WANT TO HAVE.
UM, WE'VE GOT SOME OF INFORMATION HANDY.
I'VE ALSO GOT THE LAND USE MATRIX HANDY BECAUSE IF THE ROOT OF THE CONCERN IS REALLY NOT SO MUCH THE BUILDING CONVERSION AS MUCH AS THE CONCERN WITH EITHER CAR WASHES AND, UH, THEIR VIABILITY AND, AND, UH, OFTENTIMES FAILING OR IF THE CONCERN IS IS UM, REALLY THE REPAIR USE AND HOW THOSE OFTENTIMES POP UP.
UM, MANY OF THE EXAMPLES COM UH, COUNCILMAN OTT GAVE HER ZONE COMMUNITY RETAIL, WHICH DOES ALLOW MINOR AUTO REPAIR BY RIGHT MINOR AUTO REPAIR IS YOUR TIRE SHOPS, UM, BRAKE, UM, OIL CHANGES.
UM, AS OPPOSED TO MAJOR, WHICH IS YOUR MORE COLLISION REPAIR BODY WORK TYPE STUFF.
BUT THE MINOR AUTO REPAIR DOES, UH, IT, IT DOES POP UP, UM, IN, IN SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS INCLUDING COMMUNITY RETAIL.
UM, SO WE'VE GOT THE LAND USE MATRIX AVAILABLE IF WE WANT TO KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
AND, UM, SO IF THAT'S KIND OF MORE OF THE CORE CONCERN.
BUT REALLY WITH THAT I'LL JUST KIND OF STOP
[00:25:01]
THERE AND SEE WHAT KIND OF QUESTIONS THERE ARE.ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE? UM, WELL I GUESS MY CONCERN IS IS, UH, LESS ABOUT THE FAILING CAR WASHES AND MORE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE RECENTLY, UM, MADE IT BECAUSE OF OVER PARKING AND OVERFLOW FROM THESE SUPPOSEDLY MINOR AUTO REPAIR BUSINESSES, TIRE SHOPS AND OIL CHANGE PLACES THAT ACTUALLY MU MUTATE INTO MORE, UM, INTENSIVE, UH, AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR BUSINESSES AND THEN START SPREADING OUT WITH CARS IN ALL DIRECTIONS.
AND SO WE, WE THREW DOWN THE GAUNTLET AND SAID THEY CANNOT PARK ON STREETS.
AND, UM, THAT'S ACTUALLY BEEN WORKING ANYTIME THAT WE'VE REPORTED THEM.
UM, BECAUSE THE THREAT THAT THEY CAN LOSE THEIR CO KIND OF MAKES 'EM GO, OH,
SO MY LONG TERM CONCERN WITH SEEING CAR WASHES AND I CAN, I CAN SEE FROM AN AUTOMOTIVE VIEWPOINT IF THERE'S BAYS, IT WOULD BE VERY ATTRACTIVE FOR THAT PURPOSE.
BUT MY CONCERN IS MORE CAR WASHES.
UH, WHAT PARKING REQUIREMENTS DO WE HAVE FOR CAR WASHES? THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION ACTUALLY.
I'VE GOT THE LAND USE MATRIX AVAILABLE RIGHT HERE.
SO, UH, FOR AUTOMOTIVE ROLLOVER, WHICH IS THE MOST COMMON THAT WE SEE AS FAR AS NEW REQUEST GOES, IT'S ONE PARKING SPACE PER 200 GROSS FLOOR AREA.
LOOKS LIKE IT'S THE SAME FOR FULL SERVICE DETAIL.
AND THEN ONE, UH, ONE PER BAY IS THE SORT OF SELF-SERVICE WAND THAT WE SEE.
SOME OF THE OLDER ONES, UM, HAVE, THAT'S MORE THAN MINOR AUTO REPAIR, ISN'T IT? ISN'T THAT 400? YES.
UH, MINOR AUTO REPAIR IS ONE PARKING SPACE REQUIRED PER 400 GFA PLUS TWO REPAIR BAY, WHICH THAT OFTENTIMES CAN BE INTERNAL, BUT NONETHELESS YEAH.
THAT, THAT IS MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN AUTO REPAIR.
SO WE ACTUALLY, WE RIGHT NOW ARE REQUIRING VERY MINIMAL PARKING FOR MINOR AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR, WHICH IS HOW A LOT OF THE PROBLEM AREAS ARE CATEGORIZED.
UH, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT ON ANOTHER DAY, BUT, UM, WELL MY, MY CONCERN IS MORE ABOUT THE EXPANSION AND THE GRADUAL MUTATION OF THESE SERVICES AND THEM OVERFLOWING FROM THE SPACE THAT THEY HAVE THERE, UH, WHICH MAY NOT BE VALID GIVEN THAT WE'RE REQUIRING CAR WASHES TO HAVE MORE PARKING THAN AUTO REPAIR.
I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS.
DO WE KNOW HOW BIG OF AN ISSUE THIS IS SPECIFICALLY CAR WASH CONVERTING TO THESE TYPE OF USES? I KNOW COUNCILMAN, UH, PROVIDED A LIST, BUT WE KNOW SCOPE WE'VE DONE, WE'VE DONE, I'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT OF A SAMPLE MM-HMM.
SO WE PULLED THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY DATA FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS AND JUST SCREENED OUT EVERYTHING BUT COMMUNITY RETAIL, WHICH IS SEEMS TO BE KIND OF THE, THE ZONING DISTRICT WHERE THIS IS THE MOST IMPACTFUL.
AND IN THE LAST TWO YEARS WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY, WE'VE HAD TWO NEW BUILDINGS GO IN ONE ON A LOT THAT'S BEEN VACANT FOR PROBABLY NOT FOREVER, BUT FOR MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS.
ANOTHER THAT WAS PUT IN A PLACE THAT USED TO BE A ALBERTSON'S FUELING ISLAND.
SO THOSE TWO ARE, THOSE TWO ARE NEW, BUT I WOULDN'T CLASSIFY THEM AS BEING CONVERSIONS IN ANY WAY.
AND THEN WE HAD SIX THAT DID NOT CONVERT.
THEY WENT FROM AUTO REPAIR MINOR TO AUTO REPAIR MINOR.
SO IN THE LAST TWO YEARS WE HAVE THAT GROUP AND THEN WE HAVE, UM, ONLY BECAUSE THERE ARE A COUPLE OF PENDING FINAL APPROVAL BY SOME OTHER GROUPS, WE HAVE THE TWO, SEE WE HAD MEMBER OTTS, UM, LIST, THERE WAS, UM, THAT'S A PD WE HAD, I THINK ONE ACTUALLY IN 2023 WE HAD KINGSLEY CARWASH WAS CONVERTED TWO TO THE MINOR AUTO REPAIR AND THAT'S THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN CONVERTED RECENTLY.
UM, OF COURSE THERE'S UH, I THINK THERE IS ALSO A CAR WASH BACK IN 2016 THAT WAS CONVERTED AS WELL, BUT THAT WAS IN A PD DISTRICT.
AND SO THAT ONE, ALTHOUGH THAT PD DOES REFER TO COMMUNITY RETAIL, IT'S AN UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICT IS OKAY.
SO THEN WE HAVE A GAP BETWEEN 2016 ESSENTIALLY AND, AND 2022, WHICH WE COULD DO RESEARCH ON.
WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH AND ACTUALLY CHECK EVERY, EVERY, EVERY CO.
[00:30:01]
SO THAT, THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T DO ANY MORE THAN A COUPLE YEARS.WHAT SOUNDS MORE THE ISSUE MAY BE IS THAT IN THIS COMMUNITY RETAIL DISTRICT, AND THIS IS ONE I LOOKED AT WITH OUR ZONING CASE WE HAD JUST LAST WEEK WITH THE CAR WASH GOING IN, THEY COULD PUT IN A BRAKE SHOP THERE BY RIGHT.
AND IT WOULDN'T EVEN COME TO US ON CITY COUNCIL.
WE WANT TO HAVE THAT AUTOMOBILE REPAIR MINOR REMAIN IN THE COMMUNITY RETAIL.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DISCUSS AT THIS HEARING OR WE HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER ITEM DON'T POSTED.
I DON'T THINK IT'S ON THIS AGENDA.
AND I DON'T THINK IT'S CLOSELY RELATED TO THIS.
SO THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THEN FOR THE FUTURE TO LOOK AT THEN.
I, AS FAR AS THE CAR WASH, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A MINOR, JUST A COUPLE OF, UM, COUPLE OF CONVERSIONS LAST, WELL SINCE 2016 IT SOUNDS LIKE.
BUT, UM, SOUNDS LIKE WE MAY WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS FROM ANOTHER ANGLE AT SOME FUTURE TIME.
AND IF THERE'S ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THEN ON THE CONVERSION THEN, OR DO WE WANT TO PROBLEMS HERE? OKAY.
REPOST THIS AS A SEPARATE ITEM AND WE'LL COME BACK LATER TO THAT REGARDING, UM, AUTO REPAIR ALLOWANCE IN COMMUNITY RETAIL.
COMMUNITY RETAIL ZONING BY, RIGHT? YES.
ALL RIGHT THEN WITH THAT ITEM CONCLUDED, WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR ITEM C DART INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT.
UM, THIS IS, I UNDERSTAND, UH, QUESTION CAME UP I BELIEVE AFTER THE LAST, UH, OR DART'S PRESENTATION TO YOU ALL LAST WEEK.
AND, UH, JUST A VERY QUICK UPDATE.
AGAIN, NO PRESENTATION, THIS WILL BE VERY FAST.
BUT, UM, AS FAR AS THE TIMING OF THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT, UM, TWO OTHER CITIES IN THIS REGION HAVE, HAVE DONE THIS, ADDISON AND RICHARDSON, AND THEY HA HIRED A THIRD PARTY AND IT, UH, GENERALLY TOOK AROUND NINE MONTHS.
UM, AS FAR AS, UH, THE I L A ITSELF, UM, NOW THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL SERVICES THAT CAN BE PROVIDED.
THE CONSULTANT CAN HELP WITH, UM, SOME PROMOTIONAL, UM, THINGS ABOUT THE PROPERTY, HELP PROMOTE IT AND DO RFPS TO FIND DEVELOPERS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, THAT, THAT'S ANOTHER OPTION AS WELL.
BUT THE I L A ITSELF HAS TAKEN ABOUT NINE MONTHS.
UM, NOW WHERE WE ARE NOW, WE'VE, UM, INTERVIEWED ONE, UH, CONSULTANT.
UM, THEY HAD SOME INVOLVEMENT IN THE, UM, RICHARDSON AND ADDISON ILA.
SO WE, UH, WE'VE CONCLUDED THAT, UH, INTERVIEW, BUT WE'RE JUST KIND OF DISCUSSING INTERNALLY.
WE'VE REQUESTED SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM THAT CONSULTANT AND SEEN IF WE WANNA MOVE FORWARD.
UM, THERE'S JUST KIND OF SOME FUNDING THING, FUNDING ITEMS WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT, UH, THE FUNDING SOURCE.
THERE MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, ACTUALLY USE DART FUNDS TOWARDS THIS PROJECT.
AND THERE'S KIND OF A PROCESS, UM, WITH THAT IN ITSELF BECAUSE IT'S DART'S MONEY, THEY HAVE PROCESSES THAT WE'D HAVE TO ADHERE TO.
SO THAT NINE MONTHS IS VERY BALLPARK THAT COULD BE AFFECTED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IF WE, UM, KIND OF USE DART FUNDS.
BUT, UM, THAT'S WHERE WE REALLY ARE RIGHT NOW.
IT HASN'T KICKED OFF YET AGAIN, UH, JUST INTERVIEWED ONE APPLICANT CONSULTANT AND, UH, JUST KIND OF DISCUSSING NEXT STEPS INTERNALLY.
SO ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE? NO.
WELL THEN, WITH THAT BEING OUR LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA AT 4 33, WE ARE ADJOURNED.