[00:00:01]
[Community Services Committee on September 26, 2023. ]
GOOD AFTERNOON.UM, THIS IS SEPTEMBER 26TH, 2023.
UM, AND AT 4:03 PM UH, WE ARE IN THE COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE WITH I AM CHAIR DEBRA MORRIS.
WITH ME, OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS, CARISSA DUTTON, AND MAYOR PRO TEM JEFF BASS, AS WELL AS A NUMBER OF STAFF MEMBERS.
SO, ON OUR AGENDA, FIRST UP IS THE APPROVAL OF MINUTES COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THEM? MOTION TO APPROVE.
ALL IN FAVOR, RIGHT HAND UNANIMOUSLY PASS.
UH, SECOND ITEM IS PUBLIC COMMENTS.
DO WE HAVE ANY MEMBERS? NO, MA'AM.
SO, NO MEMBERS, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HERE WHO ACTUALLY, I DON'T GUESS SHE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK.
MOVING ON TO ITEM THREE IS TO DISCUSS MOBILE ICE CREAM SALES.
AND, UM, MEMBERS, WE POSTPONED THIS UNTIL THIS MEETING LAST MONTH.
WE WERE SHY, A MEMBER, AND SO WE WERE TRYING NOT TO ACTUALLY CONCLUDE ANYTHING.
AND ALSO, THE CITY ATTORNEY WANTED TO, UM, PUT IN SOME FURTHER RESEARCH ABOUT THE, UH, MOBILE ICE CREAM SALES.
AND SO WE HAVE, DO WE HAVE IN FRONT? YEAH, WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US A DRAFT ORDINANCE, UM, THAT WAS JUST PASSED OUT BY OUR ATTENDING ATTORNEY.
AND LET'S CATCH UP WITH, WHERE DO, SCOTT, DO YOU WANT TO, TO DO A PRESENTATION AND WALK US THROUGH THIS? UH, I, I CAN DO THAT.
UH, I THINK THAT IN TALKING WITH BRIAN THIS MORNING, UM, AS YOU'RE PROBABLY AWARE, HOUSE BILL 28, UH, 78, UM, WAS PASSED, AFFECTING, UH, THE, UH, JURISDICTION, IF YOU WILL, OF THE REGULATION OF, UH, MOBILE FOOD UNITS, INCLUDING WHAT WOULD BE ICE CREAM TRUCKS IN, IN THIS INSTANCE, UH, WHICH HAS BEEN CODIFIED NOW UNDER THE HEALTH AND SAFETIES CODE, UH, 43 4 3 7 A 0 0 1.
SO THE PURPOSE OF THE ORDINANCE THEN WAS TO, UH, REVISE OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE TO MAKE CLEAR THAT THE JURISDICTION HERE, UH, FOR PERMITTING, HAS BEEN TURNED OVER TO DALLAS COUNTY.
UM, IN SPEAKING WITH MR. ENGLAND THIS MORNING, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UH, WE WERE, UH, HOPING FOR PRIOR TO FINALIZING WAS SOME INPUT FROM DALLAS COUNTY AS TO WHAT THEIR TIMELINE IS AND WHAT THEY'VE BEEN WOULD BE DOING IN TERMS OF PERMITTING PROCESS.
AND SPEAKING WITH MR. ENGLIN THIS MORNING, UH, WE HAVE YET TO RECEIVE ANY UPDATE FROM DALLAS COUNTY.
SO WE'RE IN A LITTLE BIT OF A HOLDING PATTERN.
I'M HAPPY TO, UH, WALK THROUGH THE ORDINANCE.
UM, IT, IT'S, IT IS, UH, PRETTY, UM, SELF-EXPLANATORY IN THAT REGARD IN THE SENSE THAT WHAT WE'VE DONE, WHAT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS ATTEMPTED TO DO HERE, IS TO MAKE CLEAR THAT THE, RATHER THAN HAVING THE REGULATORY AUTHORITY FOR ICE CREAM TRUCKS, UH, TO BE THE CITY, IT'S NOW TURNED OVER TO THE COUNTY.
SO AS WE GO THROUGH, UH, I CAN WALK YOU THROUGH, UH, BRIEFLY THE SECTIONS HERE OF THE ORDINANCE.
IN SECTION ONE, UH, UNDER 2 2, 8 0.2, WE'VE DEFINED ICE CREAM TRUCK, UH, TO BE A TYPE OF CATERING TRUCK.
AND CATERING TRUCK HAS MEANING UNDER THE STATUTE, UM, IN WHICH PREPACKAGED ICE CREAM, ICE MILK, AND FROZEN DAIRY PRODUCTS ARE CARRIED, UH, FORWARD FOR RETAIL SALE.
UM, ONCE WE DO THAT, THEN WE'VE NOW INDICATED AS BELOW THAT THE REGULATORY AUTHORITY THERE, UM, WILL BE THE COUNTY TO THE EXTENT THAT, UH, THE COUNTY IS GOING FORWARD WITH THAT PERMITTING PROCESS AND ADOPTING IT.
AND SO, SO YOU'LL SEE THAT THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE'RE IN THE HOLDING PATTERN HERE, IS WE ASSUME THAT THAT'S WHAT THE COUNTY'S GOING TO DO.
UH, BUT WE, WE HAVE HEARD BACK FROM 'EM.
SO DO, LET'S, LET'S PAUSE FOR A MOMENT AND LET HER SPEAK TO THAT, AND THEN WE'LL CONTINUE.
SO, DALLAS COUNTY DID DECIDE WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
THEY ARE TAKING OVER COUNTYWIDE, BUT THEY DID OFFER OPTIONS FOR EACH CITY TO BE, UM, IN AN I L A WITH THEM.
UM, WE DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT AT THIS POINT, BUT, UM, THEY DID LET US KNOW THAT ZONING OR ANYTHING WITH LIKE NOISE AT WHAT TIME OF DAY PEOPLE
[00:05:01]
ARE SELLING IS STILL UP TO THE CITY.SO WE CAN STILL MAKE THOSE RULES, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, WE DON'T HAVE THE PERMITTING AUTHORITY FOR THE FOOD, FOOD PART.
NOW, WHAT COMPLICATES IT IS I PULLED THE APPLICATION FOR A MOBILE FOOD FROM DALLAS COUNTY, AND IT SAYS AT THE BOTTOM, UM, NO PERMIT REQUIRED FOR COMMERCIAL PREPACKAGED NON T C S ITEMS AND PREPACKAGED HARD FROZEN ICE CREAM.
SO THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE NOT GONNA PERMIT THE ICE CREAM TRUCKS OR CARTS.
AND WE HAD A MEETING WITH BRIAN AND HE SAID WE COULD NOT PERMIT THEM OURSELVES.
SO ALL WE CAN DO IS A ZONING TIME, NOISE PORTION, TIME AND LOCATION.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT CURRENTLY.
I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THEY'D GOTTEN BACK.
YES, WE HAD A MEETING ABOUT IT.
UM, NOW AS FAR AS DEFINING AS CATERING, I DON'T KNOW IF WE STILL NEED TO DO THAT.
I, I THINK THAT, I THINK THAT IT HELPS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE STATE STATUTE BY DOING THAT.
I CAN SEE THE REASON FOR DOING THAT.
UM, OBVIOUSLY I'LL CIRCLE BACK WITH BRIAN TO MAKE CERTAIN, BUT, BUT THE WAY HE EXPLAINED IT TO ME THIS MORNING, THAT WAS THE PURPOSE.
AND I THINK THE WAY WE WERE DISCUSSING LAST MONTH AND LEANING TOWARD WAS BASICALLY STEPPING AWAY FROM THE WHOLE ISSUE OF, UH, LICENSING AND PERMITTING AND JUST CONCENTRATING ON THE THINGS WE JUST SAID, WHICH IS NOISE AND LOCATION.
SO IF, IF THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A, UM, POTENTIAL TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT, THEN I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE LEFT IT LAST TIME.
SO THANK YOU FOR THAT INFORMATION.
SO IN THAT REGARD, THEN YOU'LL SEE AGAIN AS WE MOVE TO SECTION TWO, UM, UNDER 2 2 8 2 2 8, UM, WE'RE AMENDING, UH, OUR TEXAS, UH, FOOD ESTABLISHMENT RULES TO NOW DISCUSS ONE IN SECTION B PERMITTING WILL BE HANDLED BY THE COUNTY.
UH, AND THEN IF YOU MOVE DOWN TO SECTION M, UM, YOU, YOU CAN SEE THAT WE ARE AGAIN, IN LINE WITH WHAT'S BEEN SAID, LOCATION AND TIME.
SO WE HAVE, UH, AN AREA WHERE FOOD CARTS WILL BE OPERATED.
WE'VE MOVED THAT DOWN TO SECTION M.
SO THAT'S REALLY JUST ADJUSTING WHERE, WHERE THAT LOCATION, UH, THAT LOCATION RESTRICTION PREVIOUSLY EXISTED.
UH, I BELIEVE WE'VE CHANGED IT TO THE DIRECTOR OF PARKS INSTEAD OF THE PARKS BOARD, BUT ESSENTIALLY THIS LANGUAGE HAS STAYED THE SAME.
BUT BECAUSE WE'RE MOVING THINGS DOWN, THE NUMBERING HAS CHANGED.
SO M AND, AND, OR NOW NEW NUMBERS.
UM, AS WE GET TO SECTION THREE, THE, UM, UH, PROHIBITIONS, NO PERSON MAY CONVEY FOOD FROM A FOOD CART IN ANY AREA ZONED RESIDENTIAL.
SO THE FOOD CARTS, I GUESS THESE ARE THINGS OTHER THAN PREPACKAGED CATERED ICE CREAM, BECAUSE ARE WE, ARE WE DELIBERATELY PROHIBITING ICE CREAM CARTS FROM NEIGHBORHOODS? NO PERSON, YES.
NO PERSON MAY CONVEY FOOD FROM A FOOD CART IN ANY AREAS ON RESIDENTIAL.
THIS WAS ACTUALLY EXISTING IN THE, IN THE PRIOR RESTRICTIONS.
AS I SAID, IT JUST MOVED DOWN.
WHEN THE, HMM, IT'S, I'M THINKING IT'S A CART WHERE THERE'S PREPARATION.
YOU HAVE LIKE CORN CARTS, IF THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SINCE THIS IS A LONG LONGISH DOCUMENT.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ARE, ARE WE WANTING TO SAY PREPACKAGED ICE CREAM CARTS, LIKE THE KIND ON BICYCLES ARE BEING PUSHED THAT WE DON'T WANT TO ALLOW THEM IN NEIGHBORHOODS OR NEAR RESIDENTIAL? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SAYING? I WOULD SAY NO.
WELL, ON, HONESTLY, UM, THIS IS MY FIRST MEETING WITH THIS COMMITTEE.
SO I JUST DID SOME RESEARCH ONLINE ON WHY ICE CREAM TRUCKS ARE BEING BANNED FROM NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND I GUESS, I DON'T KNOW, I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY CITIZEN FEEDBACK.
I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYONE ELSE RECEIVING ANY CITIZEN FEEDBACK.
SO I'M, I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY WE'RE EVEN ADDRESSING THIS AT ALL.
WELL, THEY'VE BEEN PROHIBITED IN THE CITY OF GARLAND FOR YEARS.
SO WE REMOVED THE PROHIBITION, RIGHT.
AND NOW, BUT THERE'S, IT'S A WIDE OPEN DOOR WITH NO PROHIBITION.
AND THAT'S BEEN, WHAT, A FEW WEEKS NOW? SIX WEEKS OR SO NOW.
BUT HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY COMPLAINTS AT ALL? MOSTLY FROM FOOD TRUCK OPERATORS.
SO WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY CITIZEN COMPLAINTS.
SO AS SOON AS WE GO, LET'S, LET'S, WELL, BUT SORRY FOR THE INTER COMMITTEE DISCUSSION,
[00:10:01]
BUT THE, THE ISSUE HERE IS THAT IT, IT JUST MAKES THEM, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE LICENSED THROUGH ALCO.THERE'S GONNA BE ABSOLUTELY NO OVERSIGHT FOR THEM ANYWHERE.
SO UNLESS WE PUT CARTS AND, UM, AND ICE CREAM TRUCKS KIND OF IN THE SAME CATEGORY AND, AND DESIGNATE LOCATIONS, ACCEPTABLE LOCATIONS, NOISE, BECAUSE THEY PLAY MUSIC, A LOT OF 'EM AND TIMES, THEN THEY ARE GONNA BE BULLETPROOF FROM ANY KIND OF, I MEAN, EVEN IF SOMEBODY COMPLAINS, THERE WON'T BE ANY ORDINANCE THAT CAN SAY WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS NOT APPROPRIATE.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME REASONABLE LIGHT TOUCH.
AND I AGREE WITH THE, WITH TIME NOISE.
OH, IS YOUR, I DON'T, OH, I DO HAVE A SCREEN TURN.
IT SAYS IT'S ON, ON THE MAIN SCREEN.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM I HAD YOU ON.
AND YOU ARE IN, IT SAYS IT'S ON THE WHOLE TIME.
UM, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS FROM NOISE AND IN TIME RESTRICTIONS.
UM, I DON'T KNOW, I JUST DON'T THINK WE NEED TO BE AS RESTRICTIVE AS SOME OF SOME OF WHAT I'M READING HERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHERE, YOU KNOW, WHY, WHY WE HAVE IT SO THAT THEY CAN'T BE ON STREETS NEXT TO APARTMENTS AND THEY CAN'T BE ON RESIDENTIAL STREETS.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT MAKES SENSE IF THEY'RE GONNA BE ON CITY PROPERTY, THEY NEED CITY PERMISSION.
IF THEY'RE GONNA BE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, THEY SHOULD HAVE THAT PERMISSION.
BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND SOME OF THESE OTHER RESTRICTIONS ON HERE FOR AN ICE CREAM TRUCK.
WELL, THAT WAS THE ONE THAT I JUST ASKED ABOUT, THE PROHIBITIONS.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE THIS WAS ACTUALLY MEANT FOR ICE CREAM CARTS.
SO IF, IF I COULD TRY TO PROVIDE SOME CLARITY HERE.
SECTION 2 2 8 2 2 8 IS FOR FOOD CARTS.
THE ONLY REASON WHY YOU'RE SEEING THESE CHANGES AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE TWO AND SECTION M AND SECTION O IS BECAUSE ONCE WE REMOVE THE PERMITTING SECTION, THESE TWO SECTIONS SLID UP.
SO THE, THE, THIS SECTION, UH, HERE UNDER M AND O AREN'T SPECIFIC TO THE SP TO THE ICE CREAM CARTS, WHICH WE'LL GET TO IN THE NEXT SECTION.
IT'S JUST HAPPENED AS A RESULT OF THE FACT THAT WE REMOVED A PERMITTING, UH, PROVISION AS CLEANUP IN THE FOOD CARTS AND A FOOD CART, IF YOU LOOK BACK, UM, SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE SPEAKING OF.
SO, SO, SO WE HAVEN'T YET GOT TO THE ICE CREAM TRUCK PROVISIONS.
BUT TRUCKS AND CARTS, ARE THEY TRAVELING TOGETHER? DO WE NEED TO INSERT A, A SPECIFIC NEW DEFINITION FOR ICE CREAM CARTS? WELL, WE, WE HAVE, I DON'T WANT THEM TO BE THE SAME AS OTHER KINDS OF I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
SO, SO IF WE GO, LET'S DO THIS.
IF WE FLIP THE PAGE TO LOOK AT 2, 2 9, WE CAN SEE WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH ICE CREAM TRUCKS.
I'M GOING TO BE ABSOLUTELY CANDID WITH YOU.
AND HAVING NOT BEEN AT THE PRIOR MEETING, IF WE NEED AN ICE CREAM CART DEFINITION, UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD ADD, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE'RE DEALING WITH ICE CREAM TRUCKS.
AND SO 2, 2 9 WAS ADDED AS AN ADDITION TO PICK UP ICE CREAM TRUCKS.
UH, AND THAT'S SET FORTH HERE.
IF WE WANTED TO CREATE A SEPARATE CATEGORY, WHICH WOULD NOT BE A FOOD CART, BUT AN ICE CREAM CART MM-HMM.
UM, MANDY, CAN I HAVE YOU COME BACK UP, PLEASE? THIS HAS BEEN A, A VERY BACK AND FORTH, UP AND DOWN SIDE TO SIDE, UH, CONVERSATION OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS.
UM, AND I KNOW YOU HAD SOME CONCERNS ORIGINALLY RELATING TO ICE CREAM CARTS AND HOW TO HANDLE THEM.
CAN YOU REPLAY THAT SINCE WE HAVE NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS? CAN YOU, I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE WITH WHEN, WHEN YOU HAVE A PUSH CART, YOU HAVE THE ONES THAT ARE BASICALLY LIKE A FREEZER ON WHEELS.
IT'S JUST PREPACKAGED ICE CREAM THAT CAME FROM A FACILITY, IT'S LICENSED AND WHATNOT, AND THEY'RE JUST PUSHING IT DOWN THE
[00:15:01]
ROAD.THEN YOU HAVE A FOOD CART WHERE THERE'S LIKE CORN PREPARATION FOR A LATTE, OR, UM, LIKE IT MENTIONS HOT DOGS.
SOMETHING WHERE YOU NEED LIKE, RUNNING WATER TO WASH YOUR HANDS AND TEMPERATURE CONTROL.
ONE HAS OPEN FOOD, THE OTHER'S BASICALLY NO RISK BECAUSE NOBODY'S GOING TO EAT MELTED ICE CREAM.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE NEED FOR A SEPARATE, UM, DEFINITION AND CATEGORY FOR ICE CREAM CARTS? IF WE, IF WE WANT TO REGULATE ICE CREAM CARTS SEPARATELY, THEN YES, WE, WE WOULD INCLUDE, WE WOULD INCLUDE THAT IF THAT'S WHAT THE DESIRE OF THE COMMITTEE WAS.
SO MAY I, IF IF IT, YES, I, I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY SINCE ALL OF THEM ARE DIFFERENT, THEY'RE ALL VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.
A FOOD CART VERSUS A FOOD TRUCK VERSUS AN ICE CREAM TRUCK VERSUS AN ICE CREAM CART.
UM, PERSONALLY I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM ALL SEPARATED.
UM, IT'LL HELP, I THINK, CALMS SOME OF THAT NOISE IN THE BACKGROUND OUT AS FAR AS, WELL, WE'RE NOT A FOOD TRUCK, BUT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S CUT OUT THAT GRAY AREA, SO THERE'S NO ROOM FOR MISUNDERSTANDING OR MISINTERPRETATION.
UM, I THINK THAT'S THE BEST WAY FOR US AS A CITY TO BE PROACTIVE AS FAR AS THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVING THAT GRAY AREA.
'CAUSE HONESTLY, IF I WERE TO LOOK AT THIS AND NOT SIT IN THIS MEETING AND HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS, THIS IS THE WILDEST THING TO SIT AND THINK OF FOOD CART VERSUS A ICE CREAM CART VERSUS A ICE CREAM TRUCK.
LIKE IT'S A BUNCH OF HEBREW ON PAPER FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.
AND TO THE AVERAGE PERSON, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS VERY, IT'S NOT EASY TO READ.
SO I WOULD, I WOULD THINK THAT JUST TO SQUASH THAT GRAY AREA IN THE QUESTIONS, EVERYTHING IS LISTED AS ITS OWN SEPARATE ISSUE.
AND THESE ARE YOUR RULES, EITHER YOUR RULES TYPE OF THING.
WELL, I UNDERSTAND, MANDY, YOU'RE EXPLAINING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FOOD CART AND AN ICE CREAM CART.
I DON'T SEE THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ICE CREAM CART AND AN ICE CREAM TRUCK.
SO I DON'T SEE THAT THERE'S ANY REASON FOR THOSE TO BE SEPARATE.
I MEAN, THEY'RE BOTH, THEY'RE BOTH SELLING PREPACKAGED FROZEN FOOD ITEMS. UM, SO I JUST, I DON'T SEE WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS ON THOSE.
AND THERE PROBABLY ISN'T, LIKE HEALTH WISE THERE ISN'T.
SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHAT WE COULD DO IS WE CAN INCLUDE THE DEFINITION IN, IN THE DEFINITION OF ICE CREAM TRUCK AND INCLUDE AN ICE CREAM CART.
IF, IF THE PROVISIONS REGARDING THIS RESTRICTIONS AS THE LOCATION OF TIME WOULD BE THE SAME FOR ICE CREAM TRUCKS AS PLUS ICE CREAM CARTS, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING, THEN WE COULD JUST EXPAND THE DEFINITION OF ICE CREAM TRUCK MAY RELABEL THE DEFINITION.
'CAUSE HONESTLY, I JUST DON'T SEE THAT EITHER ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE SERVING A DIFFERENT PURPOSE.
I LOOK AT ALL OF IT FROM THE FACT THE FOOD SAFETY, THAT'S JUST, THAT'S MY BACKGROUND.
SO THAT'S WHAT I, THAT'S HOW I LOOK AT IT.
I, I JUST DON'T SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO.
I DEFINITELY SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PREPARATION AND PREPACKAGED.
UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT DIFFERENCE IT WOULD MAKE, I GUESS.
UM, SO SOME ICE CREAM TRUCKS HAVE, UM, LIKE THEY DO NACHOS OR THEY HAVE LIKE CHILI THAT THEY'RE PUTTING INSIDE CHIPS TYPE OF SITUATION.
SO THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD THINK WOULD WARRANT AN ICE CREAM TRUCK VERSUS A CART, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
BUT AT THAT POINT, IT'S NOT AN ICE CREAM TRUCK.
WHAT, WHAT STOPS THAT OWNER OPERATOR FROM LOOKING LIKE A NORMAL FOOD TRUCK AND ON THE SLY HAVING, WELL, HIS, HIS RICOS NACHO CHEESE IN THERE.
WE, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T REGULATE BASED UPON ASSUMING PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DO WHAT WE TELL THEM NOT TO DO.
SOMEBODY PERSPECTIVE SUPPORTS THEM.
WE WOULD HAVE AN ORDINANCE TO STOP 'EM BECAUSE A MOBILE ICE CREAM TRUCK AND A, UH, AN ICE CREAM CART ARE BOTH PREDICATED ON THE FACT THAT THEY WOULD BE UNDER THE CATERING, PRE-PACKAGED, NO PREPARATION, NO TOUCHING, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S WHY KONA ICE, WHO WANTS TO CRUISE NEIGHBORHOODS ISN'T QUALIFIED BECAUSE THERE'S ACTUAL HANDLING OF STUFF.
WELL, AND, AND TO MAYBE ALLEVIATE YOUR CONCERN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF ICE CREAM TRUCK AS PROPOSED, IT, IT'S A CATERING TRUCK
[00:20:01]
IN WHICH PREPACKAGED ICE CREAM, ICE MILK, AND FROZEN DAIRY PRODUCTS ARE CARRIED FOR THE PURPOSES.AND SO IF SOMEONE, SOMEBODY'S CARRYING SOMETHING IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEN THEY'RE GONNA FALL INTO A DIFFERENT SUBSET OF OUR REGULATION.
AND SO, IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY THE BENEFITS OF OUR ICE CREAM TRUCK SLASH CART REGULATION, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO LIMIT YOURSELF TO PREPACKAGED ICE CREAM, ICE MILK, AND FROZEN DAIRY PRODUCTS.
SO THIS IS PROBABLY A STUPID QUESTION, BUT I'M JUST THINKING, I DON'T KNOW LAST TIME I WENT TO A FOOD OR UH, ICE CREAM TRUCK, 'CAUSE THEY'RE REALLY OVERPRICED, BUT, UM, LIKE AS A KID, YOU WOULD GO, I NEVER BOUGHT ICE CREAM, BUT THEY HAD PICKLES.
RIGHT? SO THEY'RE IN LIKE THE BIG FIVE GALLON JUG OF PICKLES AND THEY PULLED THEM OUT AND PUT 'EM IN A, CAN'T DO THAT.
AND REALLY EVEN PICKLES, PREPACKAGED THAT'S NOT, ORDINANCES NOT RIGHT.
WOULD NOT BE A DAIRY, FROZEN DAIRY PRODUCT.
SO THIS, THIS IS LIMITING, BUT THIS WOULD ALSO, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES, MAKE A LEGAL PATHWAY FOR ICE, LEGIT PREPACKAGED ICE CREAM TRUCKS AND CARTS TO BE IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THEY ALREADY ARE.
BUT THIS WOULD MAKE THEM LEGAL
DO WE WANT TO DISCUSS EXPANDING THE DEFINITION TO OTHER PREPACKAGED THINGS SUCH AS CANDY BARS OR SOMETHING? NOT FOR THIS, NO.
WE'VE GONE DOWN THAT ROAD IN PREVIOUS MONTHS AND IT LEADS TO MADNESS.
AND I, I SEE MANDY GOING, I'M GETTING A MIGRAINE.
WELL, ACTUALLY IT'S DALLAS COUNTY'S PROBLEM NOW, SO THAT'S TRUE.
SCOTT, CAN YOU KEEP GOING? SURE.
SO IF WE GO TO 2 28, 2 29, YOU'LL SEE THAT, UM, AGAIN, WE'RE PUTTING THE PERMITTING IN THE HANDS OF DALLAS COUNTY.
UH, AND THEN O IS REALLY THE MEAT OF IT, UM, WHERE WE TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO WITH ICE CREAM TRUCKS.
AND AGAIN, KEEPING IN MIND IT COULD BE, UH, ICE CREAM CARTS IF THAT'S HOW WE SO CHOOSE TO PROCEED.
UM, BUT IT, IT TELLS US THAT AN ICE CREAM TRUCK GENERALLY IS GONNA BE REGULATED AS A CATERING TRUCK, BUT THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS ARE GOING TO APPLY.
SO IN ADDITION TO THE OTHER, UH, PROVISIONS THAT APPLY TO CATERING TRUCKS, THESE FOLLOWING THINGS WILL APPLY TO THE ICE CREAM TRUCKS.
AND, AND AGAIN, IN TWO, WE'RE THROWING THE PERMITTING OVER TO THE COUNTY BECAUSE OF STATE LAW.
AND THEN IN SECTION THREE, WE TALK ABOUT WHERE, UH, THE ICE CREAM TRUCKS MAY OPERATE.
AND, AND I'LL COME BACK TO THAT.
AND IN SECTION FOUR, WHERE THEY MAY NOT OPERATE.
AND THEN IN SECTION FIVE, THE TIMES OF OPERATION.
SO AS I UNDERSTAND IT FROM TALKING TO MR. ENGLAND, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LEFT WITH IS MM-HMM.
UH, AND SO IF YOU SEE IT, IF YOU GO BACK TO SECTION THREE, UM, YOU HAVE SUB SUBSECTION A, UM, AND IT SAYS, ICE CREAM TRUCKS MAY OPERATE AND CONDUCT BUSINESS WITHIN PUBLIC RIGHTS OF WAY, INCLUDING WITHIN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING.
UM, THEY'VE GOT TO OBVIOUSLY COMPLY WITH THE APPLICABLE CITY, COUNTY, AND STATE HEALTH LAWS AND REGULATIONS.
UM, THEY CAN'T OPERATE WITHIN 40 FEET OF AN INTERSECTION, STOP, SIGN, FLASHING, BEACON, YIELD, SIGN, OR OTHER TRAFFIC CONTROL SIGNAL.
UH, AND THEN C SAYS, UM, THAT WHEN STOPPING FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING SALES, THEY CAN ONLY PARK OR STAND IN THE RIGHT OF WAY AS FAR AS PRACTICABLE FROM TRAFFIC AND SHALL OPERATE FLASHERS AND SIGNALS WHEN STOPPED.
IN NO EVENT SHALL THE ICE CREAM, UH, TRUCK VENDORS STOP FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING SALES THAT PREVENT THE PASSAGE OF OTHER MOTOR VEHICLES AND RIGHT OF WAY OR IMPEDE THE FLOW OF VEHICULAR PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE MIGHT NEED TO MASSAGE A LITTLE BIT AS WE TAKE IT TO CARTS.
'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY A CART IS NOT GONNA BE EQUIPPED WITH FLASHING CONTROLS, BUT WE CAN, WE CAN ADDRESS THAT.
UM, D SAYS, TRUCK VENDORS SHALL ONLY BEND ON THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE ICE CREAM TRUCK WHEN STOPPED OR PARKED OR STANDING WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
UH, AND E SAYS THEY CAN ONLY OPERATE A HORN SOUND AMPLIFICATION SYSTEM OR OTHER SOUND PRODUCING DEVICE OR MUSIC SYSTEM AUTHORIZED, UH, DURING AUTHORIZING VENDING PERIODS, BUT NOT WHEN THE TRUCK IS STATIONARY.
SO THAT'S THE FIRST SET OF, UH, RESTRICTIONS.
THE SECOND SET OF RESTRICTIONS DEALS WITH SCHOOLS ON THAT SECTION.
FOUR, AN ICE CREAM TRUCK MAY NOT CONDUCT VENDING OPERATIONS OR OPERATE, UM, THEIR NOISE
[00:25:01]
SYSTEMS WITHIN A SCHOOL ZONE THAT IS OPERATIONAL ON DAYS WHEN SCHOOLS ARE IN SESSION OR WITHIN TWO CITY BLOCKS OR 600 FEET, WHICHEVER IS GREATER OF THE GROUNDS OF A PUBLIC, PRIVATE, OR PAROCHIAL ELEMENTARY OR SECONDARY SCHOOL BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 11 AND FOUR 30 ON DAYS WHEN SCHOOL IS IN SESSION.AND THEN FIVE IS THE TIME OF OPERATION.
UH, THEY CAN OPERATE WITHIN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 11 AND 30 MINUTES BEFORE SUNSET, UM, AS DEFINED BY THE NATIONAL OCEANIC ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION.
SO THAT THE, THE REST IS BASICALLY OF THE ORDINANCE IS BASICALLY, UM, AGAIN, DEALING WITH THE PERMITTING ISSUE.
UM, AND, AND UNTIL YOU GET TO, TO THE EXTERIOR LOUD, UH, SPEAKERS, WHICH IS IN SECTION SIX, AND IT TALKS ABOUT THE LIMITATIONS ON THE NOISE ASSOCIATED WITH THE ICE CREAM TRUCK.
SO I THINK THE TRICK TO THIS IS GOING TO BE, IF WE'RE ADDING CARTS TO THE PROCESS, IS TO GO BACK AND SEE WHAT DOES AND DOESN'T APPLY TO MM-HMM.
AND SO THERE'S GONNA BE OTHER THINGS WE'LL HAVE TO ADJUST MM-HMM.
SO IN THAT CASE, WOULD IT BE SIMPLER TO ACTUALLY MAKE A WHOLE, MAKE THE CART ISSUE COMPLETELY SEPARATE RATHER THAN TRYING TO WIND IT IN, IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT? HERE, HERE'S WHAT I'M SUGGESTING.
UH, AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE, WHAT IS THE MOST LOGICAL, PRACTICAL WAY TO INCORPORATE THAT.
AND THEN WE CAN COME BACK AND PRESENT IT TO YOU THAT THAT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE.
'CAUSE IF, IF WE CAN DO IT MORE SIMPLY BY, BY MAKING IT A, A SEPARATE THING, THAT'S FINE.
RATHER THAN TURNING IT INTO A CONVOLUTED OR MORE CONVOLUTED LEGAL DOCUMENT, WHICH I KNOW IS MORE FUN FOR YOU, BUT NOT AS MUCH FUN US
ANY OTHER, UH, COMMITTEE, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, CONCERNS? UM, I KNOW IN, UH, BRIAN HAD HAD PREVIOUSLY EXPRESSED HIS PREFERENCE, I BELIEVE FOR THE END TIME AS BEING 30 MINUTES BEFORE SUNSET AS DESIGNED BY NOAH VERSUS A HARD TIME.
UM, I STILL AM TROUBLED WITH THAT BECAUSE HOW MANY OF US ARE GONNA LOOK UP THE TIME OF SUNSET? UM, I THINK THAT CAME FROM ONE OF THE OTHER CITIES WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT ALL WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING.
I MEAN, YOU, YOU CAN ASK YOUR PHONE AND IT'LL, IT'LL, YOUR PHONE WILL TELL YOU WHEN SUNSET IS.
BUT AS FAR AS JUST PEOPLE, AND YOU CAN LOOK UP ON THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE DRIVING AN ICE CREAM TRUCK OR SOMETHING, ARE THEY ACTUALLY GONNA STOP AND DO THAT? ARE THEY, I MEAN, AND NOT THAT WE'RE GONNA BE GOING BEHIND THEM SAYING IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE FIVE MINUTES PAST NOAH'S, COULD WE DO LIKE A SUMMER MONTHS VERSUS, I MEAN, 'CAUSE THAT WOULD BE THE BIG THING IS LIKE TIME CHANGE.
SO OBVIOUSLY WHEN THE DAYS ARE LONGER, I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE THINKING WAS.
IS IS YOUR, THE, THE MAJORITY OF YOUR ICE CREAM SALES? I WOULD THINK, I DON'T KNOW, BUT ARE IN THE SUMMER MONTHS WHEN THE TIME PERIOD IS, IS FOR SUNSET IS LATER.
SO LATER, BUT IF WE FIXED IT, THEN WE'D BE FAR PAST SUNSET.
JUST TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO, I LIKE THE SUNSET IS THE TIME YOU DO.
'CAUSE YOU CAN LOOK UP, YOU CAN LOOK OUT THE WINDOW AND SEE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, REQUESTS? 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA SEND THIS BACK INTO THE HOPPER AND, UM, LET STAFF WORK ON IT AND BRING BACK HOPEFULLY A FINAL DRAFT NEXT MONTH.
IT'LL BE THE BEGINNING EARLY NOVEMBER.
WE'RE NOT HAVING A C S C MEETING NEXT MONTH.
WELL, NO, SCOTT, DID YOU SAY SOMETHING THAT DALLAS COUNTY DOESN'T REQUIRE THE ICE CREAM TRUCKS TO HAVE A PERMIT? NO, NO, NO.
THAT I SAID THAT THE, THE, THE STATE LAW AS WHAT I SAID, AND IT MAY HAVE BEEN YOUR COMMENT, BUT IT'S ON THEIR APPLICATION HERE.
THEY AREN'T PERMITTING ICE CREAM TRUCKS.
IT JUST SAYS, IT JUST SAYS EITHER WAY, COMMERCIAL PREPACKAGED NON T C S ITEMS AND PREPACKAGED HARD FROZEN ICE CREAM.
THEY'RE NOT GIVEN THE PERMITS.
SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PERMIT OR, RIGHT.
[00:30:01]
THAT PLAY INTO HERE WHERE WE'RE REQUIRING THEM TO HAVE A PERMIT FROM DALLAS COUNTY? IF DALLAS COUNTY'S NOT GIVING THEM PERMITS, THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE IN THERE.THEN THIS, THAT SHOULD BE FIXED IN THE DRAFT.
UM, I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ANYMORE.
WELL THEN LET'S SEND THIS THROUGH FOR SOME HOPEFULLY FINAL EDITS.
AND IF YOU CAN BRING IT BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING, WHICH SHOULD BE EARLY NOVEMBER, THEN HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET THIS DONE.
AND BY THEN, NONE OF THEM ARE GONNA BE ON THE STREETS.
'CAUSE IT'S GONNA BE HOPEFULLY COLD, SO.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR GOOD WORK, BOTH OF YOU.
SO NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS TO DISCUSS THE FREQUENCY OF INSPECTIONS FOR APARTMENT COMMUNITIES OLDER THAN 25 YEARS.
AND WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS, HEATHER.
SEE, RICK, ARE YOU GONNA LEAD THIS OFF? YES.
RICK BARKER, DIRECTOR OF CODE COMPLIANCE.
AND I HAVE WITH ME LANCE POSTER.
HE'S OUR MANAGER OF OUR HOUSING STANDARDS DIVISION, WHICH MANAGES OUR MULTIFAMILY INSPECTION PROGRAM, BRIA VAN HORNS, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL SITTING BESIDE ME.
SO WHAT I WANTED TO DO TODAY WAS, UM, YOU HAD GIVEN US SOME, UM, OPPORTUNITIES TO REVIEW, UH, TO BASICALLY INCREASE THE INSPECTION, UH, NUMBERS, UH, AT OUR, AT OUR APARTMENT COMPLEXES.
AND SO WHAT I DID, I TOOK OUR, I, I TOOK OUR PREVIOUS, UH, OUR, OUR POLICY, UM, THAT WE USE TO DETERMINE OFF OF THE ANNUAL INSPECTION, UH, WHAT THE DETERMINING EQUATION TO, UH, ASSESS AND, AND REALIZE HOW MANY UNITS PER COMPLEX WE'RE GONNA INSPECT THE FOLLOWING YEAR BASED OFF PERFORMANCE.
UH, THERE'S AGE FACTORS INVOLVED HERE.
UM, AND SO ONE, ONE OF THE DESIRES OF THE COMMITTEE WAS TO, UM, WANT US TO LOOK AT A 50% RANGE.
AND SO WHAT WE'VE DONE, WE'VE, WE'VE TAKEN THAT 50%, UH, THRESHOLD AND ADDED IT TO OUR, OUR FORMULA AND OUR EQUATION.
UH, AND AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS BY POLICY.
UH, AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE SCREEN, YOU CAN SEE THAT, UH, THE, THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE MADE OR THAT WE'VE PUT IN IN THIS, THIS EQUATION, UH, IS HIGHLIGHTED IN THE YELLOW.
SO, UH, FOR COUNCILMAN BASS'S BENEFIT, UM, WE DID HAVE A CATEGORY IN HERE THAT HAD A 25% RANGE.
UH, BUT WE REMOVED THAT AND THEN ADDED THE 50% RANGE THAT FOR ANY, ANY, UH, VIOLATIONS THAT WE, WE FIND, UH, OVER ONE VIOLATION PER UNIT, UH, WOULD, WOULD GET INTO THAT 50% THRESHOLD.
SO, UH, WITH THAT IN MIND, UH, WITH, WITH THE DESIRE OF THE COMMITTEE FOR US TO LOOK AT THAT, UH, WE WANT, WE WANT TO TAKE A STEP BACK IN TIME AND JUST GO AHEAD, SIR.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION FOR CLARIFICATION ON THAT LAST SLIDE? YES.
BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OF THIS BEFORE.
SO RICK, IF YOU CAN GO BACK ONE.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M READING THIS CORRECT.
SO THE PERCENTAGES ON THE RIGHT, THOSE ARE THE PERCENTAGES OF UNITS IN THE COM COMPLEX WE'RE GOING TO INSPECT BASED, BASED OFF OF THIS CRITERIA THAT, THAT'S ON THE, UH, LEFT COLUMN THERE.
SO LET, LEMME LEMME KINDA EXPLAIN IT TO YOU A LITTLE BIT.
SO, SO THE FIRST, AND, AND THIS IS THE, THIS IS WHERE THE AGE FACTOR COMES IN.
UH, SO THE FIRST THREE YEARS, UH, OF A NEW PROPERTY, UH, WE DO A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE EXTERIORS, UH, ACROSS THE BOARD.
EVERY APARTMENT COMPLEX, WE LOOK AT A HUNDRED PERCENT OF EVERY BUILDING THAT'S ON, THAT'S ON THE PROPERTY.
BUT WE ALSO, UH, ONLY DO 3% OF THE INTERIOR UNITS THAT ARE THERE.
SO IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED UNIT COMPLEX, WHAT'S 3%? THREE.
SO WE, WE WOULD DO THREE, THREE UNITS ON THE INTERIOR.
SO, UM, HOW DO WE, I MEAN, SO YOU GO INTO OCCUPIED UNITS? SOME, YES.
HOW, HOW DO WE DETERMINE WHICH UNITS WE'RE GOING TO? WELL, AND THAT'S, THAT WAS ONE THING THAT WE, WE WORK WITH THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT TO DETERMINE WHICH UNITS TO GO INTO.
UM, IN THE PAST WE'VE KIND OF TAKEN THE INITIATIVE TO LET THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT, YOU KNOW, HELP US GUIDE US AND WHICH UNITS THEY WANT US TO LOOK
[00:35:01]
AT.UH, BUT WE DO INCLUDE THE, THE OCCUPIED UNITS.
BUT, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE PUT IN HERE THAT WAS A CONCERN OF THE COMMITTEE WAS THAT WE WOULD TAKE A MORE PROACTIVE APPROACH TO DETERMINE WHICH UNITS WE WANTED TO LOOK AT.
AND WE WOULD BASE THAT OFF OF A HISTORY.
SO SAY LIKE LAST YEAR WE LOOKED AT UNITS IN BUILDING FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX, UH, THIS NEXT YEAR WE WOULD WANT TO SEE UNITS IN BUILDING 7, 8, 9 IS AN EXAMPLE.
UM, BUT THEN IF YOU MOVE ON DOWN, UM, THE, THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES THAT ARE FOUR TO FIVE YEARS, UH, IN AGE, UH, AND THEY HAVE A PERFORMANCE OF LESS THAN 20.25 VIOLATIONS PER UNIT, WE WOULD LOOK AT 5% OF THEIR, OF THEIR INTERIORS.
AND SO IT JUST KIND OF GOES DOWN THE, UH, WE GET TO A SIX YEAR AND OLDER, UH, IS KIND OF OUR THRESHOLD.
UH, SO IF YOU'RE SIX YEARS AND OLDER, WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT AT 8%.
AND THEN, THEN THE, UM, THE, THE PERFORMANCE COMES INTO PLAY.
IF YOU'RE GREATER THAN ZERO, BUT LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO A 0.59, UH, WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT 11% GREATER THAN 0.59 LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO ONE.
AND THAT'S WHEN WE GET INTO THE MODIFICATION BASED OFF WHAT THE COMMITTEE, UM, SUGGESTED TO US AT THE LAST MEETING, UH, ANYTHING GREATER THAN ONE VIOLATION PER UNIT, UH, WE WOULD HAVE A THRESHOLD OF 50% OF THEIR, OF THEIR UNITS.
AND, AND WE HAVE STAFF TO DO THAT.
I'LL GET TO THAT
IT'S, UH, WELL, UM, IT'S A, UH, WELL, ONE THING TO PUT IT ON PAPER AND ANOTHER THING TO DO IT.
IT'S, IT, YOU KNOW, TO, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BLUNTLY, NO
AND CAN YOU DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THIS AND WHAT WE ARE, WHAT OUR CURRENT POLICY IS? BECAUSE JEFF WAS NOT HERE PREVIOUSLY.
LET ME FIND MY OTHER PRESENTATION.
UM, THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THAT THAT MAX COLUMN WOULD BE INSTEAD OF 20, INSTEAD OF 50% IT WAS 25.
THIS, THIS IS WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE.
SO IT WAS 0.99 INSTEAD OF 0.59.
SO WE MADE THAT TO MAKE IT FLOW AND, AND FIT IN.
WE MADE, WE CHANGED THAT TO, TO ONE, AND THEN ANYTHING GREATER THAN ONE WOULD BE 50%.
AND WE REMOVE THE, UH, 25% CATEGORY.
AND THEN, UM, JUST NOT TO GET AHEAD, BUT ARE WE GOING TO GET INTO LOOKING AT VI LOOKING AT NUMBERS OF VIOLATIONS COMPARED TO AGE AND PER COMPLEX AND SUCH? DO WE HAVE A CHART FOR THAT WE'RE GONNA GET INTO? WELL, WE, THAT'S WHAT WE, THAT'S WHAT WE MANAGE AND MONITOR.
UH, WE'VE GOT SPREADSHEETS AFTER SPREADSHEETS OF PERFORMANCES.
BUT LET ME, LET, LET ME, LET ME GO TO THE NEXT, UH, SLIDE FROM MY OTHER PRESENTATION SPREADSHEET.
PUT A FILE ON MY, A SMILE ON MY FACE
UM, SO WHAT, SO HERE, SO HERE'S WHAT WE DID.
WE, WE TOOK, WE TOOK THIS, UH, MODEL, I'LL CALL IT A MODEL.
WE TOOK THIS MODEL WITH THE 50% THRESHOLD, UH, AND WENT BACK IN TIME.
WE LOOKED AT OUR HISTORICAL IMPACT OF HOW THIS WOULD HAVE IMPACTED US YEARS AGO, EVEN, EVEN TO TODAY.
UH, SO WE WENT BACK TO 2018, UH, AND, AND USE THE, USING THE, THE MODEL THAT WE HAD BASED OFF OF ACTUAL PERFORMANCE AND NUMBERS THAT WE USE, WE WOULD'VE HAD, WE WOULD'VE HAD AN INCREASE OF, UH, INSPECTIONS OF 175 UNITS.
THOSE, THOSE ARE INTERIOR INSPECTIONS.
UH, AND THAT WOULD, THAT WAS OVER A, UM, UH, A GROUP OF 57 TOTAL COMPLEXES.
NOW, WHAT, KEEP IN MIND THAT EVERY, EVERY INSPEC, YOU KNOW, THE 175 UNITS WOULD REQUIRE IF WE FOUND A VIOLATION, WOULD REQUIRE AN, YOU KNOW, YOU DOUBLE THAT TO GET IT.
'CAUSE WE, WE'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND DO THE FOLLOW UP.
SO WE, WE'D BE TALKING ABOUT THREE HUNDRED AND THREE FIFTY, THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY ADDITIONAL INSPECTIONS IF WE FOUND A VIOLATION IN A UNIT.
IF THERE WAS NO VIOLATION, THERE'D BE NO NEED TO GO BACK TO THAT UNIT.
SO, UM, AND SO IN 2019, UH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, LOOKED AT OUR NUMBERS FOR 2019, IT WOULD'VE BEEN AN INCREASE OF 200 UNITS ACROSS 40 COMPLEXES.
UH, WE, WE BASICALLY REVISED EVERYTHING 'CAUSE OF COVID.
SO 20 AND 21 NUMBERS WERE REALLY NOT REALLY EVEN DOABLE TO LOOK AT.
'CAUSE WE HAD TO MAKE SOME MODIFICATIONS.
SO WE SKIPPED THOSE YEARS JUST FOR THIS BENEFIT.
UH, BUT 2022 WE'D HAD AN INCREASE OF 150 UNITS, UH, TOTAL OF 60 COMPLEXES.
AND THEN, SO, SO 2023, THESE ARE OUR ACTUAL NUMBERS.
THESE ARE THE NUMBERS THAT WE'VE ACCUMULATED THIS YEAR.
UH, WE'VE ALREADY, WE'VE ALREADY DONE THE, UM, INITIAL INSPECTION.
[00:40:01]
WE, WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT VIOLATIONS WE HAD ACROSS THE BOARD.UM, NOW THE ONE THING THAT, UH, WE HAVE NOT INCLUDED YET IN THIS YEAR'S NUMBERS ARE OUR COMPLAINTS.
BECAUSE OUR COMPLAINTS, IF WE GET A COMPLAINT AND WE GO OUT AND WE VERIFY IT'S A VALID COMPLAINT, AND THERE'S A VIOLATION THAT COMES INTO PLAY, THAT COMES INTO THE VIOLATION TOTAL.
SO, UH, FOR THIS YEAR, WE HAVE NOT YET INCLUDED THE COMPLAINTS 'CAUSE WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF MORE MONTHS TO GO.
UH, BUT WE WOULD HAVE AT LEAST, UH, AT LEAST MAYBE MORE BASED ON THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS WE RECEIVED BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF THE YEAR, WE WOULD HAVE A WHOLE, UH, A TOTAL OF 123 UNITS ACROSS 42 COMPLEXES.
SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE COULD TAKE, UM, OUR 2023 YEAR RESULTS THAT I JUST WENT OVER, UH, AND WE COULD IMPLEMENT THAT, UH, INTO OUR 2024 ANNUAL INSPECTIONS.
SO, AND AGAIN, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BLUNTLY EARLIER, DO WE HAVE THE RESOURCES? UH, THIS POLICY HAS BASICALLY GOT SOME GIVE AND TAKE IMPACTS.
UM, SO WE WANTED TO KIND OF GO OVER SOME OF THESE.
UM, THE, THE GIVES ARE, YOU KNOW, WE'D HAVE AN INCREASED NUMBER OF UNITS INSPECTED, UH, BASED ON A REVISED PERCENTAGE, UM, BASED ON THAT 50% THAT YOU WERE WANTING US TO LOOK AT.
UH, ANOTHER GIVE WOULD, UM, THE ABOVE, UH, COULD QUALIFY A COMPLEX FOR A COMPREHENSIVE INSPECTION.
UH, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE INCREASING THE NUMBER OF, OF UNITS WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE POSSIBILITY OF MORE VIOLATIONS COULD, UH, MOVE THEM OVER TO THE THRESHOLD BY ORDINANCE, UH, TO A COMPREHENSIVE INSPECTION, WHICH WE WOULD DO ALL UNITS THERE, ALL, ALL INTERIORS, WHICH WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST.
UM, BUT AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE A PERFORMANCE OR BASED OFF OF OUR PERFORMANCE BASED ORDINANCE, THE, THE, UH, COMPREHENSIVE.
ANOTHER GIVE WOULD BE, UH, WE WOULD TAKE A, UM, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE WOULD TAKE A MORE PROACTIVE ROLE IN SELECTING THE SPECIFIC UNITS TO BE INSPECTED FROM OUR HISTORY.
UH, AND THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S, WE CAN DO THAT.
UM, AND THEN THE TAKE IS, YOU KNOW, BASED ON PERFORMANCE OUTCOMES, WHICH ARE UNKNOWN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NO IDEA, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW FROM YEAR TO YEAR WHAT WE'RE GONNA ENCOUNTER, UM, BUT ADJUSTMENTS TO BE MADE, UH, TO INSPECT LESS, LESS EXTERIORS OF BUILDINGS, UH, WHERE IT MAKES SENSE.
WE LOOK AT SOME OF OUR, UH, NEWER COMPLEXES, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVEN'T AGED VERY MUCH AT ALL.
AND THERE'S REALLY, IT MAKES SENSE NOT REALLY NECESSARILY TO DO ALL A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THEIR EXTERIORS, UM, BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO KIND OF MAKE THAT AS A MANAGEMENT JUDGMENT CALL ON WHICH ONES TO, TO, UM, TO REMOVE FROM THE, FROM THE PROTOCOL.
AND THEN ALSO, UM, WE COULD, YOU KNOW, WE COULD TAKE THIS MODEL AND, UH, FROM YEAR TO YEAR, YOU KNOW, BASED ON PERFORMANCE, UH, BASED ON THE AGE OF COMPLEXES, AS THEY, AS THEY, AS THEY COME INTO PLAY, WE COULD MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, UH, ON THOSE PERFORMANCE MEASURES, UH, THAT IMPACT OTHER PERCENTAGES OF VIOLATIONS FOUND.
AND BASICALLY, YOU COULD ALMOST SAY YOU'RE REWARDING THE GOOD PERFORMERS, UH, WITH LESS INSPECTIONS.
SO, UH, IF YOU WANTED TO KIND OF LOOK AT IT FROM THAT, FROM THAT ANGLE.
UH, BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE HAVE.
UM, AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT IMPACT THIS IS GOING TO HAVE IF WE WERE TO GO THIS ROUTE.
UM, WE JUST, WE JUST DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE, YOU KNOW, ENCOUNTER, UH, THE NEXT YEAR AND, AND BASED ON PERFORMANCE AND, AND VIOLATIONS FOUND WILL IMPACT THE NUMBERS, UH, AND THE INSPECTION FREQUENCIES THAT WE DO THE NEXT YEAR.
SO, UM, ANYWAY, ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS OR THOUGHTS? OKAY, JEFF.
SO DO WE KNOW WHAT ARE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF COMPLEXES WE HAVE IN GARLAND? AND YES, I'VE, I'VE GOT THAT.
I I PRESENTED THAT IN THE LAST, UH, UH, PRESENTATION.
THIS MICROPHONE'S NOT ON HOLD, HOLD ON.
SO YOU GOT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK.
DID WE HAVE, THIS IS TO, TO THE BENEFIT OF THE LAST PRESENTATION.
WE, WE WERE TRYING TO SHOW RICK, IS THERE A CORRELATION BETWEEN NUMBER OF VIOLATIONS AND THE AGE OF A OF THE COMPLEX? YEP.
I'VE GOT SOME SAMPLES FOR YOU.
AND ALSO SIZE RIGHT? LIKE HOW LARGE THE COMPLEX IS, HOW MANY UNITS AND AGE, THOSE THINGS COMPARED TO THE COMPLAINTS.
[00:45:01]
UM, FIVE SAMPLES THAT WE PULLED, UM, BASED ON AGE AND THEIR PERFORMANCE.UH, THESE ARE SAMPLES OF OUR PROGRAM IN FROM 2022.
SO YOU HAVE AN, UH, AN 84, UH, 84, I CAN'T EVEN SEE A 34 YEAR OLD, UH, COMPLEX, UH, THAT CONSISTS OF 11 BUILDINGS AND 40 UNITS.
UH, THAT WE, WE DID THE, WE DID ABOUT 10, 10%, UH, OF THE INSPECTIONS.
WE INSPECTED FOUR UNITS AND WE FOUND SIX NON-CRITICAL VIOLATIONS IN FIVE, WITH FIVE COMPLAINTS.
UM, UH, AT AN AGE 40 COMPLEX, UM, EIGHT BUILDINGS, 123 UNITS.
UH, WE, UH, INSPECTED 14 UNITS.
WE FOUND TWO, TWO NONCRITICAL VIOLATIONS, UM, AND FOUR COMPLAINTS.
SO BASICALLY THIS, THIS SAMPLE HERE WAS TO PROVE THAT, YOU KNOW, AGE, AGE OF A COMPLEX REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.
'CAUSE WE, WE'VE GOT SOME OLDER COMPLEXES OUT THERE THAT ARE IN GREAT SHAPE.
THEY'RE WELL MANAGED, THEY'RE WELL TAKEN CARE OF.
UH, AND THEN WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT YOUNGER, UH, UM, COMPLEXES IN AGE THAT, THAT WE HAVE, WE GET MORE COMPLAINTS FROM, OR WE MAY, WE MAY FIND MORE VIOLATIONS OR WHATEVER.
SO REALLY, UH, THE, THE SUMMARY OF THIS IS REALLY AGE DOESN'T MATTER.
UH, BUT, UH, IN OUR, YOU KNOW, UP UNTIL SIX YEARS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU GET A LITTLE BIT OF BREAK TILL YOU GET SIX YEARS OLD.
AND THEN ONCE YOU, ONCE YOU START SECOND GRADE, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE OPEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE OPEN TO EVERYTHING.
SO THERE'S NO CORRELATION THERE.
AND THEN, UM, SO ARE, THERE ARE, I'M ASSUMING THERE'S, UH, FINES ASSOCIATED WITH VIOLATIONS.
THERE CAN BE, UH, IF WE, BASED ON THE NUMBER OF, UH, INSPECTIONS THAT WE HAVE TO PERFORM, IF WE GO BACK MULTIPLE TIMES, UH, THEN WE CAN START, UH, ISSUING SURCHARGES FOR INSPECTIONS.
UH, AND WE'VE, WE'VE HAD TO DO THAT IN THE PAST TOO.
AND THEN ONCE, ONCE, ONCE WE GET INTO THOSE SURCHARGES AND, AND THERE'S A CERTAIN CRITERIA FOR A COMPREHENSIVE INSPECTION, UH, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, THOSE SURCHARGES COME INTO PLAY AS WELL.
AND THEN WE, AND WE LOOK AT EVERY UNIT, UH, I HAVE THAT, UM, THE DEFINITION, THE DEFINITION OF A COMPREHENSIVE INSPECTION IS BASICALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE LOOK AT THE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR, UH, ALL DWELLING UNITS, NON DWELLING UNITS, UH, BUT WE LOOK AT LIFE SAFETY AND CRITICAL VIOLATIONS COME INTO PLAY ON A COMPREHENSIVE.
SO IF WE HAVE MORE THAN ONE VIOLATION PER UNIT INSPECTED, UH, THAT WOULD QUALIFY FOR A COMPREHENSIVE, AS LONG AS IT'S A LIFE SAFETY AND A CRITICAL.
NOW THE NON-CRITICAL TYPE VIOLATIONS DO NOT COME INTO PLAY FOR THAT.
UH, THOSE ARE PRIMARILY AESTHETIC TYPE, YOU KNOW, SCRAPING PAINT, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
YOU KNOW, THE MORE, THE LESS IMPACTFUL VIOLATIONS THAT WE SEE.
UM, YOU HAD ASKED ABOUT SOME, I GUESS SOME DEMOGRAPHICS.
LET ME SEE, I'VE GOT THAT SOMEWHERE.
THIS, THIS GIVES YOU THE, WE HAVE A, A TOTAL OF 233 MULTIFAMILY, UH, PROPERTIES IN GARLAND.
UH, THIS INCLUDES OUR QUADPLEXES.
UM, AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE 2014 TOTAL BUILDINGS.
AND THE TOTAL NUMBER OF INDIVIDUAL UNITS IS APPROXIMATELY 24,000.
AND SO ROUGHLY EVERY YEAR, OUR THRESHOLD IS ABOUT 2,500 UNITS.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE, THAT'S WHERE WE MAX OUT ON, ON RESOURCES AND, AND PRODUCT PRODUCTIVITY.
NOW, IF WE GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE TO DO A CO COMPREHENSIVE OR MULTIPLE COMPREHENSIVES, UH, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY MUCH AN ALL HANDS ON DECK.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE MAY ROB RESOURCES FROM OUR SINGLE FAMILY RENTAL PROGRAM TEMPORARILY, BUT WE, WE TRY TO GET IN AND GET OUT AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN.
AND, UM, ALSO, IS THERE ANY, UH, CORRELATION, SO HISTORICALLY WITH THE, THE, UM, OFFENDING COMPLEXES WITH, UM, I MEAN, DO THEY HAVE A TENDENCY TO GET BETTER OVER TIME? OR DO WE HAVE REPEAT OFFENDERS EVERY YEAR? DO THEY REPEAT BOTH
I MEAN, YOU GOT SOME THAT, I MEAN, ALRIGHT.
I MEAN THEY, THEY, WE USE OUR INSPECTIONS KEEPING 'EM ALIVE FOR 60 PLUS YEARS, AND BY WE ARE THE PERMIT OF MAINTENANCE FOR 'EM AND THE OTHERS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY WANNA SPEND MONEY AND MAKE IT BETTER.
BUT IT'S, IT'S JUST A COMBINATION OF BOTH.
THERE'S NO, SO DO WE HAVE ANY, UM, INCREASED FINES OR INCREASED SCRUTINY
[00:50:01]
FOR REPEAT OFFENDERS? I MEAN, ONLY THE FACT THAT, I MEAN, THERE'S, LIKE I SAID, IF THEY DON'T TAKE CARE OF THEIR INSPECTIONS, WE DO RE-INSPECTION FEES AND CITATIONS IF NEEDED.BUT LET'S SAY WE GO OUT ONE YEAR AND THEY'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, 10 VIOLATIONS.
YOU GO OUT THE NEXT YEAR, YOU INSPECT A COUPLE MORE APARTMENTS, AND IT'S THE SAME 10 VIOLATIONS THEY HAD THE YEAR BEFORE.
BUT IN A DIFFERENT BUILDING, DO WE HAVE ANYTHING TO, TO ESCALATE THIS OR WE JUST TREAT EVERY INSPECTION LIKE IT'S THE FIRST ONE AND THERE'S NO, NO ESCALATION OF CHARGES.
IT, IT'S, IT'S BASICALLY A NEW SLATE.
AND THEN, UM, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THE MOST COMMON COMPLAINTS WE HAVE AND WHAT ARE THE MOST COMMON VIOLATIONS? RELATIONS, I'D SAY THE MOST COMMON COMPLAINTS, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY YOU KIND, YOU CAN KIND OF TRACK OUR COMPLAINTS TO BE IN THE WINTERTIME, YOU KNOW, NO HEAT.
YOU KNOW, WE GET SLAMMED WITH NO HEAT AND THEN SUMMERTIME WILL BE NO AC OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S WHEN YOU GET SLAMMED THE MOST.
JUST IN GENERAL HERE LATELY, MOLD HAS BEEN A HUGE COMPLAINT, WHICH I MEAN, WE, WE ADDRESS THE, THE SYMPTOMS, WHICH IS THE, THE WATER LEAKS BEHIND IT, WHAT'S CAUSING IT.
UM, THAT, AND I GUESS RAW SEWAGE AND YOU NAME IT, IT'S, IT'S KINDA MIXED BAG.
IT'S THE SAME THINGS WHEN YOU GO AND INSPECT, YOU FIND THOSE, UH, VIOLATION.
I MEAN, ON PROACTIVES LIKE THAT, WE, I MEAN, THE MOST COMING OUTSIDE IS OBVIOUS.
IT'S GONNA BE THE, THE SCRAPING PAINT, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH REALLY, REALLY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU THINK.
I MEAN, BY SCRAPING AND PAINTING A STAIRWAY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE MAINTAINING THE LIFE OF IT FOR YEARS AND YEARS MM-HMM.
UM, BUT WE ALSO FOUND A LOT OF, ESPECIALLY OUTSIDE, IF THEY'RE INDIVIDUAL ACS, YOU GET THE, THE BREAKER BOX WHERE THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOOSE AND THERE'S EXPOSED WIRES.
WHAT WAS THAT TIME? WE MAKE SURE THEY'RE TAKEN CARE OF IMMEDIATELY.
UH, INSIDE, I'D SAY NUMBER ONE, IF, ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S NOT A PROPERTY MANAGER ON SITE, IT WOULD BE SMOKE DETECTORS.
TENANTS TEND TO TAKE THE SMOKE DETECTOR BATTERIES OUT A LOT.
AND WE, AND TO, TO THAT EFFECT, WE STARTED A PROGRAM SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHERE, UM, AND WE, WE COMMUNICATED THIS TO OUR, OUR MANAGEMENT POPULATION AND, AND OWNERSHIP POPULATION THAT, UH, IF YOU ACCOMPANY US ON YOUR INSPECTIONS AND WE RUN ACROSS A, A, A SMOKE DETECTOR WITHOUT A BATTERY OR A NON-FUNCTIONAL SMOKE DETECTOR, IF THEY WILL, IF THEY WILL GET THAT OPERATIONAL BEFORE WE LEAVE THE SITE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE WILL NOT COUNT THAT AGAINST THEM.
AND, AND WITH THE, WITH THE MOTIVATION THAT WE LEAVE THAT COMPLEX, IT, IT'S AS SAFE AS IT CAN BE AND THAT, THAT WAS THE WHOLE GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S TAKEN CARE OF.
SO COMMON MISCONCEPTION OF CODE COMPLIANCE, UM, WITH RESIDENTS I FEEL LIKE IS, UH, THAT YOU GUYS ARE A CASH COW.
SO WE JUST LEARNED THAT THAT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE CASE IF WE ARE NOT FINDING PEOPLE AS I FEEL LIKE AS MUCH AS THEY COULD BE.
RIGHT? SO ONE THING, UM, KIND OF GOING WITH JEFF THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS MAYBE SOME SORT OF, UM, FINE STRUCTURE.
I KNOW WE HAVE A, UM, SHORTAGE OF INSPECTORS.
I'M SAYING IF WE'RE FINDING PEOPLE MORE ON IT, YOU KNOW, LET'S, UH, HELP OURSELVES.
LET ME ASK QUICKLY, SCOTT, WHAT, WHAT KIND OF, UH, UH, LIMITATION HAS THE STATE PUT ON US AS FAR AS THE KIND OF FINES WE'RE TALKING HERE? ARE WE LIMITED IN A CEILING FOR LIKE WE ARE WITH ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE FIREWORKS AND OTHER PUNITIVE FINES? ARE WE ABLE TO INCREASE THE FINES THAT WE'RE ASSESSING THESE APARTMENTS WITHOUT BUMPING INTO STATE LAW? OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I WOULD SAY NO.
BUT, BUT, BUT I'D APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT BEFORE I ANSWER DEFINITIVELY.
PLEASE, PLEASE CHECK INTO THAT BECAUSE WE'VE HAD A LOT OF OTHER THINGS.
IT WAS JUST LIKE, YEAH, LET THE FINES ESCALATE AND I WOULD LOVE THAT AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT, MAKE IT CAUSE PAIN IF THEY ARE ESPECIALLY CHRONIC.
SO, UM, BUT SO MANY TIMES WE FIND OUT
SO I'LL I'LL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING THAT.
SO I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE THE FREQUENCY OF EVEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE DID THE, THE MARSHAL DOING THE PARKING VIOLATIONS, RIGHT? AND IT WAS LIKE, YOU GET A WARNING, THEN AFTER THAT IT'S A $10 FINE.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT MULTIPLE UNITS THAT CAN GET YOU A $10 FINE,
[00:55:01]
THAT WHAT ARE THE, WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT'S GOING TO LIGHT A FIRE FOR THEM TO BE MORE PROACTIVE SO THAT THEY'RE NOT GETTING THOSE FINES WHEN WE SHOW UP? SO THAT WOULD BE MY THINKING ON THAT.UM, I COULD BE TOTALLY OFF BASE, BUT, UM, ONE, ONE COMMENT WE COULD MAKE ON THAT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE GET ENFORCE ESCALATED ENFORCEMENT AND WE WRITE A CITATION, UM, IF IT, IF IT'S A, A REPEAT OFFENSE OR WHATEVER THAT THAT'S ESTABLISHED BY THE COURT, THAT FINE IS ESTABLISHED BY THE COURT.
SO THAT COULD BE AN ESCALATION OF A FINE BASED ON, ON THE JUDGE, WHATEVER HE DECIDES TO, UH, ESTABLISH AS A, AS A FINE.
UM, BUT THAT, THAT'S CAPPED OUT AT $2,000 IS THE MAX I BELIEVE.
SO I MEAN THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE, IF WE ISSUE CITATIONS THAT THAT POTENTIAL IS THERE.
I MEAN, AND I'M NOT EVEN TALKING SO MUCH LIKE THE ACTUAL DOLLAR AMOUNT AS MUCH AS THE FREQUENCY OF HERE'S, EVEN IF IT'S A $25 FINE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NON-CRITICAL, THAT WAS THE SAME NON-CRITICAL THAT WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE BOARD.
SO HISTORICALLY, OR EVEN IN THE MOMENT, THIS IS AN ISSUE, WELL HERE'S TAKE A LITTLE HEAT FROM IT, YOU KNOW, OPPOSED TO OKAY, NOW TIMMY DON'T DO THAT.
LIKE, BUT WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT YEAR AND HOPE FOR THE BEST.
DO I HAVE A REQUEST FOR A QUICK RECESS? YES,
UM, COMMITTEE, WE'RE GONNA CALL A, UH, FIVE MINUTES FIVE FIVE, FIVE MINUTE RECESS.
SO THIS COMMITTEE IS IN RECESS.
SO WE WILL RECONVENE IN FIVE MINUTES.
WE ARE NOW RESUMING THE MEETING OF THE COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE.
IT IS 5:05 PM UM, AND COUNCILWOMAN DUTTON, YOU WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF COMMENTS, SO PLEASE CONTINUE.
UM, OKAY, SO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT JUST INCREASING CITATIONS, UM, IF POSSIBLE.
UM, I THINK JUST TO BE PROACTIVE, IF THEY KNOW THAT THEY'RE GONNA FEEL A LITTLE PINCH FROM SOMEWHERE, MAYBE WE'RE MORE APTT TO STAY ON TOP OF IT INSTEAD OF THEM BEING REACTIVE TO US.
UH, MY OTHER QUESTION WOULD BE, OBVIOUSLY I THINK 50% OF UNITS IS IN THE PERFECT WORLD WOULD BE AMAZING.
UM, HOWEVER, I DON'T FEEL LIKE IT'S THE MOST FEASIBLE THING FOR US.
SO, UM, GOING BACK TO HOW WE PICK WHICH UNITS WE'RE GONNA TAKE A LOOK AT, WE ALL KNOW AN APARTMENT IS GONNA BE LIKE, OH YEAH, WELL WE CAN GO TO THESE THREE BECAUSE SECRETLY THEY'VE ALREADY WARNED THEM AND THEY HAVE MADE SURE EVERYTHING IS AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE.
UM, BUT WE ALSO KNOW TENANT RIGHTS, SO THEY HAVE TO BE NOTIFIED THAT SOMEONE COULD BE ENTERING THEIR APARTMENT WITHIN 24 HOURS OR WHATEVER.
UM, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD LOOK AT INSTEAD OF LETTING THE APARTMENT CHOOSE WHICH, WHICH TENANTS TO NOTIFY? COULD IT BE A BLANKETED ACROSS THE BOARD, YOU NOTIFY THE ENTIRE COMPLEX, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT YOUR APARTMENT IS CHOSEN IN THE INSPECTION.
IS THAT, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YEAH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
BUT, UH, KEEP IN MIND TOO, JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TO INSPECT IT AND THE MANAGEMENT WANTS TO ALLOW US TO INSPECT IT, THE TENANT MAY NOT WANT US INSPECT.
YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S, THERE'S SOME VARIATIONS THERE AND SOME VARIABLES THAT WE HAVE TO OVERCOME.
BUT, AND I WILL SAY JUST BASED ON, WELL, ONE IN, ONE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD THERE, UH, WE'VE RECEIVED COMPLAINTS BEFORE FROM APARTMENT COMPLEXES, BASICALLY SENDING OUT NOTICES LIKE THAT AND NOBODY'S SHOWING UP.
SO YOU KINDA GET THE, THE BACK EDGE OF THE STORE TOO, SO TO SPEAK, WHERE THEY, THEY GIVE THE NOTICE, NOBODY SHOWS UP, THEY ACTUALLY GET UPSET ABOUT IT.
'CAUSE THEY HAD TO PUT THE DOGS UP, THEY HAD TO DO WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE MAD ABOUT IT.
UM, IN THE GRAND SCHEME,
I, AND AGAIN, I KNOW ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE CONCERNS AND DISCUSSIONS WE HAD IN
[01:00:01]
THE FIRST MEETING WAS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A PROPERTY MANAGER AND A TENANT.AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THINGS THAT WE CAN'T REALLY GET INVOLVED IN.
UH, LEASING ARRANGEMENTS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UH, BUT AGAIN, WE CAN'T REGULATE IT.
AND, UM, UH, BUT YEAH, SO WE, I MEAN, AGAIN, WE, WE, WE DO, AGAIN, ONE, ONE THING THAT WE CAN, WE CAN DO A LITTLE BETTER JOB OF.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, WE CAN, UH, REQUEST, UH, TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT BUILDINGS AND DIFFERENT UNITS, YOU KNOW, BASED ON, OFF A HISTORY OF WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST.
AND SO, UH, BUT AGAIN, IT'S A, IT'S KIND OF A PARTNERSHIP.
UM, THE, THE MANAGEMENT TEAMS KNOW WE'RE COMING THAT THEY, THEY WANT TO DO GOOD ON THEIR INSPECTIONS, UM, BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT, IT IMPACTS, UM, WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT THE, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT YEAR.
UM, SO IT'S, IT'S THAT PARTNERSHIP AND, UM, GETTING, GETTING THE COOPERATION OF, OF GETTING THE INSPECTIONS DONE.
THE ONLY LAST THING THAT I HAVE, UM, DO YOU HAVE LIKE A FORM THAT YOU, I KNOW MOSTLY EVERYTHING IS DIGITAL, BUT UM, LIKE THAT WE COULD SEE LIKE, KIND OF LIKE A CHECKLIST OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.
SO THAT, I MEAN, JUST TO GIVE US AN IDEA OF LIKE A DAY IN THE LIFE, RIGHT? LIKE YOU'RE GOING IN DOING AN INSPECTION.
I PERSONALLY AM VERY LIKE, VISUAL.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE LIKE A CHECKLIST.
I COULD GO THROUGH MY HOUSE AND BE LIKE, OH, OKAY.
JUST KIND OF TO HELP MAYBE PUT THINGS INTO PERSPECTIVE.
I WILL PULL THE, THE FREAKING BATTERIES OUT OF ALL THE SMOKE ALARMS 'CAUSE THEY'RE TOO SENSITIVE.
THEY MAKE ME MAD AND I BURN THINGS.
SO I KNOW IF I HAD THAT CHECKLIST THAT I COULD LIKE LOOK THROUGH AND LIKE PERSONALLY GO THROUGH MY HOUSE AND BE LIKE, OKAY, SO IT'S NOT AS CUT AND DRY OR IS BLACK AND WHITE IS WHAT WE THINK IT IS BECAUSE YOU GUYS DO YOUR JOB, NOT US.
SO MAYBE TO HELP JUST KIND OF SURE WE CAN, WE CAN DO THAT.
I THINK WE, UH, WE DON'T HAVE A, WE DO NOT HAVE A FORM.
I'LL SAY THAT JUST THERE'S NO, LIKE AROUND THE HOUSE, THERE'S NO CHECK CHECK TAPE.
IT IS, IT IS ALL IN THE SYSTEM.
WHAT I CAN PROVIDE WOULD BE BASICALLY THE THE FORM THAT WE PROVIDE FOR.
SAME WITH SINGLE FAMILY RENTAL OWNERS.
UH, IT JUST KINDA GIVES A, A KIND OF VERY BASIC BREAKDOWN OF, OF WHAT WE LOOKED FOR.
DID, DID WE SENT OUT THE, UH, VIOLATION TYPES? DID YOU GET THAT? I DON'T, DID WE SEND THAT OUT? YOU DIDN'T GET THAT.
FROM THE LAST MEETING YOU REQUESTED TO SEE A LIST OF OUR VIOLATIONS OR WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, UM, TO GET AN IDEA OF THE DIFFERENCE.
YEAH, WE, WE CAN, WE CAN GET THAT TO YOU.
IT, IT BREAKS IT DOWN BY, YOU KNOW, LIFE SAFETY.
UH, CRITICAL AND NON-CRITICAL VIOLATION TYPES.
WE CAN, WE CAN GIVE YOU THAT FOR SURE.
AND THAT THAT'LL GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
OR THE VIOL VIOLATION TYPES THAT WE HAVE.
IF YOU'LL FOLLOW UP WITH THAT TO YES, WE WILL.
I, I AM THINKING ALONG THE SAME LINES AS COUNCILWOMAN DUTTON, AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, LEAVING IT UP TO AN APARTMENT MANAGER TO PICK HER THREE FAVORITE TENANTS OR THREE OF HER FAVORITE TENANTS TO HAVE THEIR, THAT, THAT JUST DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THE MOST OPTIMAL WAY TO ACTUALLY FIND WHERE THINGS ARE GOING BAD.
SO I WAS THINKING ALONG THE SAME LINES.
NOT NECESSARILY NOTIFYING THE EVERY UNIT, BUT, UH, TELLING THE MANAGER, OKAY, I NEED, I NEED YOU TO LINE UP OVER FIVE TIMES, FOUR TIMES THE NUMBER YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO INSPECT.
AND THEN YOU CHOOSE THE UNITS.
AND AT THAT POINT, LET THEM SAY, OKAY, YOU ARE ACTUALLY GETTING INSPECTED.
SO THE INITIAL THING WOULD BE, UM, YOU, YOU MAY BE INSPECTED, THEN THEY WOULD ACTUALLY GET NOTIFIED.
YOU AND YOUR UNIT WILL BE INSPECTED.
DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? IS THAT POSSIBLE THAT WE, WE CAST THE NET FURTHER TO BEGIN WITH AND THEN YOU PICK THE UNITS OUT OF A LARGER POOL AND THEN THEY GET, IF THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE INSPECTED TO PREVENT PEOPLE SAYING, WELL, I GOT ALREADY AND YOU DIDN'T SHOW UP AT THE LAST MINUTE OR CLOSE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN 24 HOURS OR 48 HOURS, YOU LET THEM KNOW OUT OF THE LARGER GROUP WHICH UNITS YOU'RE CHOOSING TO INSPECT.
COULD WE DO THAT WITHOUT TOO MUCH DRAMA? IT'S, THAT'S HARD TO PREDICT.
UM, COULD, COULD I ADD SOME SOMETHING SURE.
UM, A COUPLE OF CONCERNS I HAVE.
SO IT D DO WE, SO IT'S SAFE TO SAY WE DON'T HAVE A CORRELATION FOR AGE RELATED TO VIOLATIONS.
SO MY CONCERN IS, IS TO, IN, TO INCREASE INSPECTIONS OF OTHER PROPERTIES BY 50%,
[01:05:01]
WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TAKE 'EM FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.AND MY CONCERN THEN BECOMES THAT THAT DOESN'T GET MEASURED.
SO IF THEY GET USED TO LESS INSPECTIONS, WHAT DOES THAT DO? AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL WE WE'RE BUDGETED FOR, IF I'M CORRECT, A STRATEGIC PLAN FOR CODE.
WE'D GOT THAT IN THE BUDGET THIS YEAR.
IT, IT'S BEYOND CODE COMPLIANCE AS A DEPARTMENT, IT IS RIGHT.
RELATES TO BUILDING CODE COMPLIANCE AND IT'S A, WE NEED SOME STRATEGY ABOUT HOW TO, WHERE, WHERE'S, WHERE DO WE PUT OUR, WHERE DO WE PUT OUR RESOURCES TO ACCOMPLISH ALL THE THINGS THAT WE WANNA ACCOMPLISH? SO IT GOES BEYOND THAT.
BUT IT DOES TIE TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
EXTERIORS BECOME VERY IMPORTANT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REDUCE TRADING, REDUCING THAT, REDUCING THINGS, THERE'S SOME IMPACTS THAT WE JUST DON'T EXACTLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.
BUT WE'RE, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE MY CONCERN IS AS WELL.
SO, SO I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, LOOK AT THAT AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL SO THAT WE CAN EVALUATE ALL OF THE RESOURCES AGAINST COUNCIL'S UPDATED PRIORITIES.
'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY THINGS CHANGE OVER TIME.
HOPEFULLY THEY CHANGE OVER TIME FOR THE BETTER, FOR THE BETTER.
THAT, THAT WAY WE CAN EVALUATE ALL OF THE RESOURCES.
'CAUSE I THINK IT WOULD BE BASED ON THE POLICY DIRECTION FROM COUNSEL, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE EASY TO MAKE THE CASE THAT ADDITIONAL RESOURCES ARE NEEDED.
'CAUSE WE ALSO HAVE THE SAME, UH, REQUEST, UH, RELATED TO COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.
SO I THINK IN, AT, AT THAT LEVEL, WE'D LIKE TO GET THAT GOING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
AND YES, THE STRATEGIC PLANS TAKE TIME.
THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE CONCERNS AT ONE TIME AT A POLICY LEVEL SO THAT WE CAN REALLOCATE OUR RESOURCES.
SO LET'S SAY WE STUDY AND WE DETERMINE THAT THESE ISSUES AREN'T WHAT THEY USED TO BE AT ONE TIME, BUT THESE ARE, WE CAN SHIFT EXISTING RESOURCES AND ASK FOR NEW RESOURCES.
'CAUSE I, IF I'M BEING FRANK, I GET A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT, UM, PULLING RESOURCES FROM ONE PILE TO ANOTHER PILE AND NOT BEING ABLE TO KNOW WHAT THOSE RAMIFICATIONS ARE.
I, I HATE, I HATE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT I CAN'T ANTICIPATE.
AND THEN I'VE NOW TRADED ONE PROBLEM FOR ANOTHER.
'CAUSE I, 'CAUSE I THINK YOU'LL FIND THAT WE TOTALLY AGREE IF WE COULD INSPECT A HECK OF A LOT MORE IN A LOT DIFFERENT WAYS.
THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE AND A QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE THAT WE WANNA BE KNOWN.
AND I'M PROUD OF THE PROGRAM TOO.
THE MORE I LEARN ABOUT IT, IT'S, IT'S AN UPPER ECHELON PROGRAM.
IT'S PROACTIVE, IT DOES A LOT OF GOOD THINGS.
NEED MORE INSPECTORS POTENTIALLY, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE STUDY SHOWS.
THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY RESPECTFUL REQUEST OF THE COMMITTEE.
AND UM, ACTUALLY WHAT I WAS GONNA, I'M SAY NEXT, ACTUALLY IT'S KIND OF ON ANDY'S COATTAILS THERE.
FIRST ALL I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS GOING THROUGH PRETTY MUCH YOUR ENTIRE LAST MEETING Y'ALL HAD FOR ME.
I, I'D LIKE THE INFORMATION, UM, AND, AND ANDY'S RIGHT, THE WHOLE, THIS WHOLE MEETING TODAY, RIGHT.
IS WHAT CHANGES ARE RECOMMENDED.
BUT THEN THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE MAKE THOSE, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN THAT BE ACCOMPLISHED? SO THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, UM, YOU KNOW, OKAY, SO FOR EXAMPLE, UH, LET'S LOOK AT 2022 'CAUSE THAT'S AN ENTIRE YEAR.
OKAY? SO 2022 USING THE REVISED, UH, GUIDELINES WOULD'VE RESULTED IN 150 MORE UNITS BEING INSPECTED.
SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT 150 MEANS REALLY, BECAUSE WHAT I DON'T KNOW IS HOW MANY INSPECTIONS A YEAR ARE WE DOING NOW? OR HOW MANY INSPECTIONS DOES ONE INSPECTOR DO? HOW MANY INSPECTORS DO WE HAVE? WHAT'S, WHAT, WHAT IS THE, WHAT ARE THE, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? WELL, OUR, AGAIN, OUR, OUR THRESHOLD, OUR, OUR MAXIMUM PRODUCTION OUTPUT BASED OFF A YEAR IS OF HISTORY.
AND OUR, AND WHAT WE KNOW IS ABOUT 2,500 UNITS.
YOU KNOW WHAT, 25, YOU DID SAY THAT EARLIER.
OKAY, SO WE DO 20, WE DO, WE DO 2,500 NOW.
SO AN INCREASE OF 150 UNITS IS AN INCREASE OF ABOUT SEVEN ISH PERCENT.
RIGHT AT 6%, I THINK'S WHAT WE ARE.
AND HOW MANY, HOW MANY, UM, OF THOSE, HOW MANY, WHAT INSPECTORS DOES IT TAKE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT? THOSE 2,500 INSPECTIONS? FIVE.
SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE WOULD NEED ONE MORE IN RIGHT.
LIKE ANDY SAID, I MEAN, YOU CAN'T JUST GO PULL IN RESOURCES FROM ONE PLACE AND PUTTING IT IN ANOTHER, BUT WE COULD, WE, I LIKE THE IDEA OF LOOKING AT, UM, REWARDING THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE THE VIOLATIONS WITH LESS INSPECTIONS.
SO IF, YOU KNOW, IF WE TOOK, IF WE SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TOP, WELL THERE'S BRING THE NUMBER FLAT, RIGHT? IF YOU TOOK THE TOP 6% AND YOU, WHEN YOU DIDN'T INSPECT THEM AT ALL, THEN YOU'D HAVE ENOUGH TO COVER THE REST OF THESE VIOLATIONS.
BUT OF COURSE, WE DON'T WANNA GO TO ZERO INSPECTION.
WELL, THERE'S A, THERE'S A BALANCE IN THERE SOMEWHERE.
RIGHT? AND, AND BY ORDINANCES WE WE'RE REQUIRED TO INSPECT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, AN ANNUAL INSPECTION BECAUSE THEY, THEY PAY A LICENSE TO FOR US TO DO THAT.
[01:10:02]
OKAY.SO WE CAN'T REWARD WITH LESS INSPECTIONS FOR THE ONES WHO ARE DOING WELL, WHAT'S THE MINIMUM BY ORDINANCE THERE? THERE ISN'T A MINIMUM.
IT'S, BUT THEY, BUT THEY'RE PAYING A FEE PER UNIT TO BE PART OF THE PROGRAM.
YEAH, I THINK THERE'S, IT'S MORE OF A, IT'S, I THINK IT'S MORE OF A, AND THAT'S, THAT'S BASED ON SIZE.
SO IT'S, IT'S $13 PER UNIT IS WHAT THEIR LI ANNUAL LICENSE COSTS.
SO THESE, THESE LARGER COMPLEXES PLAY A PAY A, A FEE.
THAT'S, THAT CAN ADD UP QUITE A BIT.
I'M JUST, I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF THINGS THAT WE CAN DO OTHER THAN JUST, YOU KNOW, HIRING MORE PEOPLE OR MOVING, MOVING LABOR RESOURCES AROUND WHAT ELSE, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WE COULD DO.
THAT'S ALL THE THOUGHTS I HAVE.
SO, UM, SO ANDY, YOU ARE, IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU'RE, YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING YOU'D LIKE TO WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN HAND.
DO WE HAVE ANY KIND OF A TIMELINE EXPECTATION FOR THAT? I, I DON'T AT THIS POINT, BUT I CAN CERTAINLY INFORM COUNSEL AS SOON AS WE GET A, A CHANCE TO EVALUATE THE SCOPE OF THAT AND GET, GET THAT ROLLING.
YEAH, BECAUSE IF THIS WAS, AND IT WOULD BE, UM, ROLLED IN AS PART OF THAT TO GIVE US, LAUNCHING OUT INTO THE UNKNOWN IS NEVER MY FAVORITE THING.
AND I ALSO LIKE GRAPHS AND FLOW CHARTS AND, UM, I DON'T MIND TAKING A RISK ON PILOT PROGRAMS IF THEY'RE CONTROLLABLE.
BUT THIS ONE WOULD KIND OF BREAK OUT OF, UM, A LOT OF BOUNDARIES THAT WE HAVE AND WE DON'T NEED CHAOS.
UM, RICK, YOU DID TALK ABOUT REWARDING GOOD PERFORMERS WITH FEWER INSPECTIONS.
SO WE DO, AND WE DO CURRENTLY YOU ALREADY DO THAT CORRECTLY? YEAH.
THIS, THIS WHOLE MATRIX IS SET UP TO BE LESS, THE LESS VIOLATIONS YOU HAVE, THE LESS UNITS YOU GET INSPECTED THE NEXT YEAR.
AND SO THERE IS A BENEFIT JUST IN LESS INSPECTIONS THAT, THAT, AND THE WHOLE MATRIX IS REALLY SET UP TO THAT THERE'S A BENEFIT FOR YOUNG AGE, LET'S CALL IT.
AND THEN THERE'S A BENEFIT FOR LESS VIOLATIONS.
SO ON THIS GIVE AND TAKE SHEET WHERE THAT WAS LISTED AS A TAKE, THAT WOULDN'T ACTUALLY GAIN US ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY DOING THAT.
WELL, THAT, THAT WAS BASED OFF OF, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WOULD, WE MIGHT POSSIBLY HAVE TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, UH, TO THE MATRIX.
AND ANDY'S, UM, POINT ABOUT EXTERIOR INSPECTIONS, UM, IS WELL TAKEN SINCE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
UM, THAT IS A REALLY BIG DEAL.
AND WE CERTAINLY WOULDN'T WANT TO LET THERE BE ANY DETERIOR DETERIORATION IN THE EXTER EXTERNAL APPEARANCE OF ANY OF OUR MULTIFAMILIES.
SO, UM, WELL, AND EVEN THE, AND I MENTIONED IN THE FIRST MEETING THE, UH, SOME EXTERIORS, UH, CAN CREATE SAFETY HAZARDS LIKE LANCE MENTIONED, THE, THE STAIRS, THE STAIRWELLS, THE HAND RAILINGS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO WE, WE DEFINITELY NEED TO LOOK AT ALL OF THAT.
UM, COMMITTEE WHERE, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT CALLING THIS, PUTTING, PUTTING OUR FINGER ON THIS FOR DOWN THE ROAD AFTER WE CAN REVISIT, UM, AFTER WE GET A MASTER PLAN IN HAND, THAT WILL GIVE US A LOT MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO SEE HOW ALL THE MOVING PARTS ARE, ARE WORKING WITH EACH OTHER.
BECAUSE IF YOU IMPLEMENT THIS AS IS, WE, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO ACCOMPLISH IT.
ARE YOU ALL GOOD WITH HAVING THIS REPORTED OUT TO COUNSEL THEN? YES, MA'AM.
AND WITH THAT, WE ARE TO ITEM FOUR, WHICH IS TO ADJOURN.
SO AT 5:22 PM WE ARE ADJOURNED.