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TO THE OCTOBER 16TH, 2023[Development Services Committee on October 16, 2023.]
MEETING OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICE COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF GARLAND.I'M THE CHAIRMAN, DYLAN HEDRICK.
WITH ME, I HAVE MAYOR PRO TIM JEFF BASS AND COUNCIL LADY DEBRA MORRIS.
FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS.
I DON'T SEE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HERE, UH, BUT WE ALWAYS WELCOME ANYONE IF THEY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON ANY OF OUR AGENDA ITEMS. OUR NEXT ITEM, UH, FIRST ITEM FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION IS TREE MITIGATION WAIVERS, AND MR. GARRIN, BUT YOU LOOK LIKE YOU'RE READY TO GIVE A PRESENTATION OR, YES, SIR.
UM, SO I BELIEVE WE TOUCHED ON THIS TOPIC A FEW MONTHS AGO, AND, UM, SO STAFF, UM, PRIMARILY MR. GRUIT AND I HAVE, UM, BEEN WORKING ON A CRITERIA, UM, FOR TREE MITIGATION FEE WAIVERS.
AND SO I BELIEVE Y'ALL HAVE HARD COPIES IN FRONT OF YOU, AND I'LL KIND OF WORK OFF THE LAPTOP.
YOU MAY HAVE THIS IN FRONT OF YOUR, ON YOUR SCREENS AS WELL.
UM, SO I'LL, I'LL KIND OF BRIEFLY WALK YOU THROUGH IT A LITTLE BIT.
UH, MR. GRUIT COULDN'T BE HERE THIS EVENING, BUT, UM, UM, I KNOW, UH, MR. HESSER IS HERE, UH, WHO REVIEWED THIS AS WELL.
UM, THE, IT'S KIND OF BASED ON A POINT SYSTEM THAT WE, UM, KIND OF LOOSELY, UH, BORROWED AS I'LL SAY, A, A SIMILAR GREEN POINT SYSTEM THAT THE CITY OF DALLAS HAS.
UM, AND THEN WHAT WE, WE PARED IT DOWN AND SIMPLIFIED IT, UH, GREATLY AND KIND OF TAILORED IT, UM, UH, TO OUR NEEDS AND, AND WANTS.
BUT THE STRUCTURE OF THE IDEA HERE IS THIS WOULD BE AN AMENDMENT, UH, INTO THE G D C, AND IT'D BE HANDLED THROUGH WHAT WE CALL ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE, WHICH IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS, UM, THAT GOES THROUGH STAFF WHERE WE CAN REVIEW SOMETHING AND POSSIBLY APPROVE IT.
SO THIS CRITERIA IS SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY WOULD BE REVIEWED, UH, BY STAFF, AND ACTUALLY A DEVELOPER CAN GO AHEAD AND GET A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE BASED ON HOW MUCH THEY, UH, YOU KNOW, VOLUNTARILY, UH, PROVIDE.
UM, THEY CAN GET A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THEIR TREE MITIGATION FEE KNOCKED OFF.
AND THE HOPE IS THAT ENOUGH, THIS WOULD MAKE ENOUGH OF A DIFFERENCE TO AVOID OR AT LEAST REDUCE, UM, THE AMOUNT OF TIMES THEY COME TO COUNCIL ASKING FOR RELIEF.
SO, UM, SO THIS WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO KIND OF EXHAUST, UM, UH, MORE MORE IN THE WAY OF TREE MITIGATION FEE RELIEF BEFORE IT EVER GETS TO COUNCIL.
UM, AND I'LL KIND OF JUST START FROM THERE.
SO REALLY FROM THE TOP, UM, AND, AND THIS IS ALL, YOU KNOW, POLICY DECISION, BUT OUR THOUGHT IS, UM, TO HAVE A, A WAIVER UP TO, IN THIS PROGRAM, SO UP TO 50% OF TREE MITIGATION FEES COULD BE, UH, WAIVED THROUGH THIS ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE OR ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS.
UM, SO THAT WAY IT'S KIND OF CAPPED 'CAUSE IT IS A FEE WE DO STILL, UM, UH, USE, IT'S A FEE WE NEED, UM, FOR TREE PLANTINGS AND OTHER OTHER TYPES OF PROJECTS THAT THE CITY INITIATES.
SO THE CAP WOULD BE 50% OFF THEIR TOTAL TREE MITIGATION FEE.
UM, BUT THE STRUCTURE IS FAIRLY SIMPLE IN THAT ONE, IT'S A POINT SYSTEM AND ONE POINT EQUALS 1% OF THEIR TOTAL TREE MITIGATION FEE.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THEY OWE A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF TREE MITIGATION FEES, UH, ONE POINT IS A THOUSAND DOLLARS, UM, WORTH OF TREE MITIGATION FEES, SO, OR A THOUSAND DOLLARS KNOCKED OFF.
UM, SO THE, I'LL JUST KIND OF RUN THROUGH SOME OF THE EXAMPLES OF THE, UH, CRITERIA.
AND MUCH OF IT IS BASED ON, UH, SOMEWHAT RELATED THINGS LIKE TRAILS AND BIKEWAYS AND LANDSCAPING AND, BUT WE'VE KIND OF INSERTED SOME PLACEMAKING, PUBLIC ART, UH, OTHER TYPES OF, UM, ITEMS IN HERE THAT WE FEEL WOULD BE A GOOD, UM, TRADE OFF FOR, FOR THE CITY.
UM, SO FOR EXAMPLE, UM, HANSEN WIDER PEDESTRIAN, UH, AND BICYCLE AND TRAIL CONNECTIONS THAT ALIGN WITH THE TRAILS AND BIKEWAYS MASTER PLAN.
OF COURSE, THIS WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF THE PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT, BUT THAT IS WORTH 20 TO 25 POINTS.
UM, AS A SIDE NOTE, WHAT WE PLAN TO DO IS KIND OF AS A, AN IN KIND OF A GUIDELINE, THIS WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE IN, EMBEDDED INTO THE G D C, BUT AS A, TO PROVIDE A GUIDE TO APPLICANTS AND DEVELOPERS.
GIVE THEM EXAMPLES OF WHAT GETS YOU 20 POINTS VERSUS 25 POINTS.
'CAUSE THERE IS A, A HIGH LEVEL OF SUBJECTIVITY TO THE ACTUAL AWARDING OF THE POINTS, UM, THAT'S KIND OF GIVEN TO STAFF.
SO, UM, SO WE'LL KIND OF WORK ON AN INTERNAL DOCUMENT THAT WE CAN PROVIDE TO APPLICANTS TO GIVE SOME EXAMPLES.
SO TAKING THIS FIRST ONE AS AN EXAMPLE, IF THEY PROVIDE, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE SIX TO EIGHT FEET, MAYBE THAT'S JUST 20 POINTS, BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING MORE LIKE 12, 10 TO 12 FEET, THAT GETS YOUR 25 POINTS.
SO, UM, SO WE DO, UH, PLAN TO PUT THAT TOGETHER, UH, ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE AND PLACEMAKING AMENITIES BEYOND JUST THE MINIMUM G D C REQUIREMENTS.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, SUCH AS POCKET PARKS, ATHLETIC FACILITIES, PONDS, SEATING AREAS, AND OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITIES.
UM, UH, THIS, SOME OF THIS LANGUAGE KIND OF WAS TAKEN FROM DALLAS THAT WE THOUGHT, UM, IS KIND OF A GOOD IDEA.
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MUST OCCUPY AT LEAST 5% OF THE LOT AREA PROVIDED.UH, THE SPECIAL AMENITIES AREA MUST BE FULLY IDENTIFIED ON A LANDSCAPE PLAN, UM, PRIVATE OR, OR INTERIOR COURTYARDS ARE EXCLUDED.
UM, AND THEN GIVING A LITTLE BIT MORE POINTS TO PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE AMENITIES, BUT THEY CAN STILL GET SOME POINTS FOR PRIVATE AMENITIES AS WELL, BUT JUST THEY GET A LITTLE BIT MORE FOR PUBLIC.
UM, ENHANCED LANDSCAPE ENTRY OR GATEWAY FEATURES.
UM, WE, UH, OH YEAH, PUBLIC ART SO THEY CAN GET MORE POINTS FOR MAYBE A UNIQUE GATEWAY FEATURE OR A PUBLIC ART.
UM, THERE'S LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT, UM, WHERE THEY CAN GET A NUMBER OF POINTS.
SO THERE'S SOME EXAMPLES OF, UM, WHAT WOULD FALL UNDER THAT CATEGORY.
SO PROVIDING A RAIN GARDEN, UH, BIOSWALE, UH, WATERWISE PLANT MATERIALS AND PLANTING BEDS.
UM, AND THAT GIVES KIND OF A BREAKDOWN ON, ON POINTS AND SOME PARTICULAR EXAMPLES THERE.
AND SOME OF THIS IS, UH, LANGUAGE THAT MR. GRUBER SPEAKS MUCH BETTER THAN I DO, BUT, UH, HE HAD THE CHANCE TO, UM, KIND OF HELP DRAFT THIS AND REVIEW IT AND THAT SORT OF THING BEFORE IT GOT TO YOU ALL.
UM, OF COURSE, GREEN CERTIFICATIONS, YOU KNOW, LEAD, UM, OTHER TYPES OF CERTIFICATIONS, US, US, UM, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE G B C, GREEN BUILDING COUNCIL, WE'LL FIX THAT TYPO.
BUT, UM, UH, BUT OTHER TYPES OF EXAMPLES THERE.
IF THEY CAN PROVIDE A CERTIFICATION OR PROOF OF CERTIFICATION THAT'S WORTH FIVE POINTS.
UM, ENGINEERED SOLUTIONS AND AN URBAN STREETSCAPE FOR REPLACEMENT TREES.
MR. GRUIT WAS VERY BIG ON THAT.
UM, UH, HAVING CERTAIN MINIMUMS FOR SOIL VOLUMES, WHICH REALLY PROMOTE HEALTHY TREE, UH, GROWTH.
UM, SO THAT IF THEY CAN DISPLAY THAT ON A LANDSCAPE PLAN, UH, THROUGH THIS PROGRAM, OF COURSE, UM, THAT'S WORTH, UH, CERTAIN NUMBER OF POINTS.
UM, AND THEN FINALLY WE JUST, WE FIGURED, I MEAN, THIS IS A, A PRETTY GOOD MENU OF CHOICES, BUT THIS MAY NOT, WE MAY NOT BE THINKING OF EVERY CREATIVE IDEA OUT THERE.
SO KIND OF LEAVING IT A LITTLE BIT OPEN-ENDED FOR SOME ADDITIONAL POINTS IF THERE'S PROPOSED, UM, ENHANCEMENTS FOR CONSIDERATION, UH, THAT WOULD KIND OF MEET, UH, THE INTENT.
THIS IS JUST KIND OF SOME INTENT LANGUAGE, BUT WE DO REFERENCE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TRAILS AND BIKEWAYS MASTER PLAN, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, STRATEGIC PLAN, AND CULTURAL ARTS MASTER PLAN.
JUST MAKING SURE IF THEY'RE PROVIDING, UM, SOME ENHANCEMENTS, MAKING SURE IT GENERALLY ALIGNS WITH OUR, OUR STRATEGIC PLANS IN THE CITY.
AND, UM, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, STAFF WOULD'VE THE CHANCE TO KINDA REVIEW THAT INTERNALLY AND DISCUSS AND, UM, AND KIND OF GO FROM THERE.
SO THE IDEA BEHIND THIS, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S THROUGH ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE.
SO THIS WOULD BE AFTER THEY EXHAUST, UH, OR GO THROUGH THE STANDARD TREE MITIGATION REVIEW, UM, UH, TREE MANAGEMENT PLANS, WHICH IS PART OF THEIR SITE PERMIT CONSTRUCTION PLAN REVIEW.
SO ONCE THEY GO THAT THEY, WE KIND OF IDENTIFY A FEE AND THEN IF THEY WANT TO THEN TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL AND TRY TO GET SOME REDUCTIONS, THEY FEEL LIKE THEY CAN DO SOME OF THESE THINGS, THEY CAN APPLY FOR THIS PROCESS.
AND THEN WE WILL KIND OF SEE, UH, SEE WHAT THEIR FEE LOOKS LIKE AFTER THAT.
SO, UM, REALLY WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'LL PAUSE THERE AND SEE IF THERE'S, UM, ANY QUESTIONS OR FEEDBACK.
VERY GOOD COMMITTEE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ARE YOU SAYING YES, I'M YAWNING AND SAYING YES AT THE SAME TIME? ALL RIGHT.
SO WILL UNDER, UH, F TWO IT SAYS, UM, ACCREDITED FACILITIES MUST OCCUPY AT LEAST 5% OF THE LOT AREA PROVIDED.
UM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY WE CHOSE A PERCENTAGE THERE INSTEAD OF A SQUARE FOOTAGE? BECAUSE I MEAN, 5% COULD VARY QUITE A BIT AND THERE'S NO, NO MINIMUM ON THERE, YOU KNOW, AND THEN FOR A LARGE AREA, THAT COULD BE A, A REALLY GRAND NUMBER.
UM, YOU KNOW WHAT, UH, HONESTLY I THINK THAT 5% JUST CAME, UH, STRAIGHT FROM LANGUAGE THAT THE, UM, CITY OF DALLAS HAS.
SO THAT, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT.
UH, MR. HESSER MAY HAVE A, TO WEIGH IN ON THAT.
UM, WE CAN PROBABLY DIG INTO THAT AND GET A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ON WHY THAT IS WHAT IT IS.
UM, FOR, FOR COMPARISON, MATT UCH ALSO WROTE THE ORDINANCE FOR DALLAS.
SO I'M, I'M FAIR
SO, UM, WE COULD PROBABLY GET SOME DETAIL ON THAT.
UM, I'M SURE THERE'S A RATIONALE FOR IT THAT'S BALANCED OUT, BUT WE'LL, WE CAN DO THAT IF, IF THE COMMITTEE CHOOSES TO REPORT OUT TO THE FULL COUNSEL, WE COULD HAVE THAT READY OR, OR EMAILED BACK.
'CAUSE IT JUST SOUNDS, I MEAN, IT COULD GO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, RIGHT? FOR A GUY WITH A LITTLE, LITTLE SPACE, THAT'S NOT MUCH TO DO FOR A GUY WITH A BIG SPACE.
I, WELL, AND ONE THOUGHT IS ON THAT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT, AND IS JUST IN GENERAL THAT WHAT THE ORDINANCE IS TRYING TO SPEAK TO IS STRIKING KIND OF A BALANCE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, HAVING SOME STAFF ADMINISTRATIVE CAPABILITIES TO WORK ON SMALLER SCALE THINGS.
'CAUSE IF WE AGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE URBAN FOREST
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IS A VALUABLE ASSET AND WE'RE ESSENTIALLY TRADING IT FOR SOMETHING THAT WE FEEL IS BENEFICIAL, AND THEN IF IT'S ABOVE THAT 50% CREDIT, I BELIEVE, IS THAT RIGHT? YEP.AND IT'S A SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT IN THE COMMUNITY THAT COUNCIL DEEMS AS A, THEN YOU COULD WAIVE EVEN MORE.
BUT I, I WONDER IF THAT 5% IS MAKING THAT SOMETHING THAT'S TANGIBLE ENOUGH AND BENEFICIAL ENOUGH TO BE WORTH THE EFFORT WOULD BE MY STAB AT THAT, AT THAT QUESTION.
BUT THAT WAY IT'S NOT SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WE LOSE X AMOUNT OF INCHES OF TREES AND WE GOT A YEP.
AND THEN, UM, NEXT, JUST, I JUST WANT MY CURIOSITY.
IT SAYS PRIVATE OR INTERIOR COURTYARDS ARE EXCLUDED.
UM, CAN WE, 'CAUSE I MEAN, EVERYTHING IN HERE IS NOT GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC ANYWAY, SO JUST CURIOUS WHY WE'RE EXCLUDING SPECIFICALLY PRIVATE THINGS.
YEAH, AND THAT MAY BE SOMETHING I CAN CLARIFY WITH, WITH MATT AS WELL, BUT I, I THINK THE KEY WORD IS THEN THE COURTYARDS, IF THEY'RE PRIVATE OR INTERIOR COURTYARDS, IT'S, IS JUST ENTIRELY INTERNAL.
UM, VERSUS MAYBE SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE MORE VISIBLE OR, UM, ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC PERHAPS.
SO THAT, THAT MAY BE THE INTENT THERE.
UM, UNLESS MR. HESSER F TWO MAYBE SOMETHING WE YEAH.
YEAH, IT, AGAIN, I'M GONNA TAKE A STAB.
IT'S GONNA BE LIKELY WHETHER OR NOT IT'S ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC OR NOT, OR HAS PUBLIC BENEFIT.
UM, OR AT, AT THAT POINT IT KIND OF ALSO IS ADDING IMPERVIOUS COVER.
YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE TAKING AWAY TREE COVER THAT HAS TO DO WITH WATER ABSORPTION AND THEN WE'RE ADDING, WE'RE, WE'RE TRADING TREES FOR IMPERVIOUS COVER FEELS COUNTERINTUITIVE.
I THINK THAT THAT MAY HAVE SOME VALIDITY.
'CAUSE THE DALLAS GREENPOINT SYSTEM IS VERY FOCUSED ON, UM, ON THAT SORT OF THING, KIND OF REDUCING THE, THE UM, AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS COVER AND MITIGATING ALL THAT, WHEREAS WE KIND OF, UM, INCORPORATE A LOT OF THAT AS WELL, BUT THEN ADDED SOME OTHER THINGS LIKE PLACEMAKING AND PUBLIC ART AND KIND OF TOOK IT TO A DIFFERENT LEVEL.
SO, UM, BUT YEAH, WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK AT THAT AS WELL.
YEAH, I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO, I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS MAYBE IT JUST SEEMS A LITTLE VAGUE.
QUESTIONS? YES, GO AHEAD PLEASE.
UM,
THE, THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE MAKES MM-HMM.
UM, SO GIVING 'EM CREDIT FOR TREES WHILE PUTTING MORE CONCRETE DOWN SEEMS KIND OF LAME.
UM, BUT I ALSO HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE NEXT THING PRIVATE OR INTERIOR COURTYARDS ARE EXCLUDED SUBJECT TO APPROVAL OF PARKS AND RECREATION WORDING ON THAT JUST STRIKES ME AS ODD.
WE'LL, WE'LL CLARIFY THAT AS WELL.
SO WHAT IS, WHAT'S THE INTENT OF THAT? I'M NOT, THEY'RE EXCLUDED SUBJECT TO APPROVAL.
YOU, I, UH, SUBJECT TO APPROVAL FOR THE PARKS DEPARTMENT.
I THINK THAT WAS ALL ENCOMPASSING AND MEANT FOR THAT WHOLE GENERAL SECTION BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PARKS, ATHLETIC FACILITIES, THAT WE WOULD DEFINITELY WANT THE PARKS DEPARTMENT, UH, TO REVIEW.
SO THAT, I DON'T THINK THAT WAS INTENDED TO BE, UM, UH, SPECIFIC TO THE COURTYARD'S ITEMS. SO MAYBE WE CAN JUST RESTRUCTURE THAT OR THAT'S A LITTLE MOVE IT, MOVE IT TO THE END OF THE COURT, THEN BE WRITE OUT AND CLARIFY IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
I CAN HOW YOU WOULD HAVE A, AN EXCLUSION SUBJECT TO APPROVAL.
COULD I PIGGYBACK ON THAT? COULD, COULD WE ALSO, FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT, MAYBE LET'S REVISIT 'CAUSE I DID NOT PICK UP ON THAT AND IT JUST OCCURRED TO ME.
DO WE WANT THAT APPROVAL IN THERE? LET, LET'S REVISIT THAT AND SEE IF WE, IF I UNDERSTAND THE RATIONALE TO THAT, BUT SURE.
UM, I WOULD BE SOMEWHAT CONCERNED ABOUT THAT STEP IN THE PROCESS AT PARK BOARD AND RELATED TO TIME OF REVIEW CYCLES.
UM, BUT WE'LL GET SOME GREATER UNDERSTANDING ON THAT TO MAKE SURE.
THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE INTENT THERE.
ANNUAL
NOT NECESSARILY GO THROUGH PARK PARKS FOR GOT IT.
BUT WE CAN ABSOLUTELY REWORD IT IF WE NEED TO.
I, I HAVE, I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.
SOME QUESTIONS AS WELL ON THIS DOCUMENT.
UH, SAME ONE THAT TWO F OR F TWO, I'M SORRY.
BUT RIGHT BEFORE THEN IT TALKS ABOUT PRIVATE COURTYARDS EXCLUDED.
SO IT'S KIND OF SAYING THE SAME THING.
I'D JUST LIKE TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THAT.
AND UM, I APPRECIATE YOU WANTING TO PUT TOGETHER THIS GUIDEBOOK TO KNOW SOME DEFINITIONS LIKE, UH, F THREE
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ENHANCED LANDSCAPE, I MEAN TO A DEVELOPER, ANY LANDSCAPE THAT GOES ONE PLANT ABOVE WHAT IS REQUIRED BY MINIMUM IS ENHANCED LANDSCAPE.SO I WOULD LIKE TO A LITTLE DEFINITION OF WHAT ENHANCED LANDSCAPE ENTRY WOULD MEAN AND WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.
UH, ON F FOUR I RAIN GARDEN, UH, AA, ONE SQUARE FOOT RAIN GARDEN TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET, UH, ONE SQUARE FOOT RAIN GARDEN.
I DON'T THINK IT'S VERY EFFECTIVE AT ALL.
AND I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT MAINTENANCE AND ALL THESE THINGS.
UH, WHEN I WORKED IN MARYLAND RAIN GARDENS AND BIOSWELLS WAS A MAJOR, MAJOR COMPONENT AND THERE WAS A MAINTENANCE, UH, PART THAT WENT ALONG WITH THIS.
THEY REQUIRED THEIR, ALL THEIR, UM, ALL THEIR STORM WATER TREATMENT.
IT WAS A MAINTENANCE CRITERIA AND IF THEY PUT 'EM IN INITIALLY ALL RAIN GARDENS IS GONNA BECOME JUST A FILLED UP WITH LEAVES AND AND DIRT AND IT WON'T BE EFFECTIVE IF IT'S NOT MAINTAINED.
IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAY THAT WE HAD THE SAME DEBATE AMONGST OURSELVES, SO MM-HMM.
IF IT'S NOT POROUS ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY PERCOLATE, WELL THEN IT'S, THEN IT'S AN UPSIDE DOWN NATIVE GARDEN.
AND TO THAT POINT, WE HAVE ALL TYPE D SOILS, WHICH IS CLAY HERE.
WHICH NONE OF 'EM WILL WORK IN THAT CASE.
THAT'S ALL OF ACROSS THE METROPLEX.
THEY'RE ONLY WORKING, LIKE I SAID, THE EAST COAST MARYLAND WHERE IT'S AN A OR B, WHERE IT'S MORE IMPERVIOUS AND YOU CAN POUR WATER INTO IT, IT GOES STRAIGHT DOWN.
THAT MAY BE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT.
UH, UNDER, KEEP GOING DOWN TOP OF THE THIRD PAGE.
ITEM FIVE A LEAD CERTIFICATION.
ARE WE GOING TO REQUIRE THEM TO BE LEAD CERTIFICATION OR CERTIFIED OR ONLY SUBMIT DOCUMENTATION SIMILAR TO IT? 'CAUSE LEAD I ENCOMPASSES QUITE A BIT.
UH, THERE'S SPECIFIC LEAD COMPONENTS THAT DEAL WITH SITE SELECTION AND WATER USAGE AND CONSERVATION.
IT DOES SAY, UM, GENERALLY ACCEPTED GREEN CERTIFICATION SUBSTANTIALLY EQUIVALENT TO, UH, GOLD AND PLATINUM LEAD CERTIFICATIONS.
SO, UM, UH, TO GET GOLD CERTIFICATION YOU HAVE TO GET X NUMBER OF POINTS, WHICH ENCOMPASSES HVAC AND ALL TYPES OF THINGS DEPENDING ON WHICH LEAD, UH, PROGRAM YOU'RE FILING UNDER.
UH, A LOT OF THE DEVELOPERS AREN'T, THEY MIGHT FOLLOW THOSE REGULATIONS, BUT THEN AGAIN, THEY DON'T GO FOR THE CERTIFICATION 'CAUSE IT'S SO EXPENSIVE TO GET IT CERTIFIED BY THE US GREEN BUILDING COUNCIL.
SO I I WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT ONE AGAIN.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE WE'RE POINTING TO THE EQUIVALENT THAT BECAUSE THAT'S, I, WE SEE THAT A LOT TO WHERE IT'S NICE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY IT, BUT IT'S A COST THING.
OR YOU'RE SO CLOSE, IT'S LIKE, YEAH, BUT WE JUST, WE CAN'T DO THIS ONE THING.
OR YEAH, WE WE'RE ALMOST A PLATINUM, BUT GOLD WAS WHAT WAS AFFORDABLE.
I THINK IT WAS JUST AN OPPORTUNITY THAT IF THEY WERE GONNA MEET THOSE THINGS, THEY WOULD AT LEAST HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET SOME POINTS FOR IT OR THEIR EQUIVALENT.
AND THEN, UH, FINALLY ON SIX ENGINEERED SOLUTIONS, IS THAT ENGINEERED LOOKING AT ENGINEERED SOIL? SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT THAN JUST STANDARD BACKFILL AROUND A TREE THEN IS THAT AT THE INTENT OF THAT? 'CAUSE ENGINEERED SOIL HAS TO, HAS A DEFINITION.
THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT.
THAT, THAT THAT'S THE WAY, LIKE WE BUILT A SQUARE, ALL OF THAT WAS IN ENGINEERED SOIL IN SILVA CELLS MM-HMM.
AND SO AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE CREDIT FOR THOSE RATHER THAN THEY, THEY TEND TO HAVE A MUCH BETTER BENEFIT AND, AND SURVIVABILITY AND A BUILT ENVIRONMENT FOR THOSE TREES TO ACTUALLY THRIVE, NOT JUST BARELY MAKE IT FOR YEARS.
WELL, I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO SEE GUIDEBOOK, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, A LITTLE MORE THOUGHT ON SOME OF THESE THINGS AND, AND CONSIDER THE MAINTENANCE COMPONENT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY ABILITY FOR US TO CLAW BACK, YOU KNOW, FEES LATER, AT A LATER POINT IN TIME AFTER WE ISSUE A PERMIT.
BUT IF WE ASK FOR ALL THESE THINGS AND THEN THEY JUST GET IGNORED THREE OR FOUR YEARS DOWN AFTER IT'S BUILT, THEN IT, WE KIND OF LOST THE INTENT OF OUR, OUR ORDINANCE HERE.
I WOULD, I WOULD PROBABLY NOT FORESEE CITI BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY OF THIS, BUT MM-HMM.
I BELIEVE THAT'S THE CASE IN LANDSCAPING ANYWAY, RIGHT? WITH YOUR LANDSCAPE BUFFERS, THAT'S, YEAH.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I HAD THERE, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'LL NEED TO POSSIBLY REVISIT THIS IN ANOTHER MEETING.
AND HOPEFULLY THAT TIME MATT CAN JOIN US AND YEAH.
SOME MORE, MORE INPUT ON THAT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THAT ITEM THEN? NOPE.
MY ONLY COMMENT IS I'M REALLY HAPPY WE'RE MOVING IN THIS DIRECTION BECAUSE
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HAVING EVERY TREE MITIGATION REQUEST COME WITH A DEVELOPER STANDING IN FRONT OF US AND BASICALLY SAYING, OH, UNLESS YOU GIVE ME THIS GINORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY, I JUST CAN'T DO THIS.SO HAVING THIS, UM, OPEN UP SOME ADMINISTRATIVE, UM, APPROVALS AHEAD OF TIME IS JUST SENSIBLE.
THEN WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM TWO B, CONSIDERING AMENDING RECEPTION HALL USES.
I'VE GOT, UH, SOME, UH, ADDITIONAL INFORMATION INCLUDING WHAT THE COMMITTEE ASKED US TO KINDA BRING BACK, UH, FROM LAST MONTH'S MEETING.
SO I THINK THIS WAS THE SAME SLIDE I HAD LAST TIME.
JUST AS A REMINDER, THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF RECEPTION FACILITIES.
UM, AND THE TERM DOES NOT INCLUDE, UH, RESTAURANTS, HOTELS, COUNTRY CLUBS, THEATERS OR COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENTS THAT PROVIDE FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES AS A SECONDARY USE.
UM, AND AS A REMINDER, IT'S ALLOWED ONLY BY SS U P IN ANY ZONING DISTRICT WHERE IT IS ALLOWED, UH, TO BEGIN WITH.
UM, IT'S, IT'S REALLY JUST IN COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL ZONES AS WELL AS, UH, SOME OF THE DOWNTOWN, UH, SUBDISTRICTS AS WELL, BUT ALL BY S U P.
UM, SO THE COMMITTEE HAD ASKED US TO BRING BACK, UH, SOME EXAMPLES OF SQUARE FOOTAGES, UH, THAT WERE ALLOWED OR APPROVED, UH, VIA S U P IN THE PAST.
SO THESE WERE FIVE, UM, FAIRLY RECENT ONES THAT I PULLED.
THEY'RE ALL ABOVE THE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT MARK WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT LAST TIME, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S TWO, UM, THAT JUST HAPPENED TO BE ABOUT 19,000 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE, ALMOST 20, UM, ONE THAT'S ABOUT 9,500 SQUARE FEET, UH, ONE THAT'S, UH, PRETTY LARGE OVER 31,000 SQUARE FEET.
AND THEN A LITTLE BIT SMALLER ONE THAT'S ABOUT 6,200 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE.
UM, BUT IN TALKING WITH KIND OF A LITTLE MORE INTERNALLY AND WITH MS. VAN HORN, WE KIND OF TOUCHED ON IT AT THE LAST COMMITTEE MEETING, IT MAY BE, MAY MAKE MORE SENSE IF WE DO MOVE FORWARD WITH AN AMENDMENT TO PERHAPS, UM, UH, REGULATE IT BY OCCUPANCY RATHER THAN SQUARE FOOTAGE.
'CAUSE EVEN THE SMALLER SQUARE FOOTAGE ONES CAN CERTAINLY HAVE A VERY HIGH OCCUPANCY AND POTENTIALLY ALLOW FOR VERY, VERY LARGE PARTIES AND, AND EVENTS.
SO, UH, SO THAT'S ONE IDEA THERE.
UM, BUT JUST A FEW ADDITIONAL JUST CONSIDERATIONS JUST TO KIND OF REALLY THINK ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, HOLISTICALLY.
SO, UM, AS, AS I WAS KIND OF ALLUDING TO, UH, JUST A SECOND AGO, SMALL RECEPTION FACILITIES, UH, CAN STILL FIT A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE OCCUPANCY WISE.
SO WE MAY WANNA CONSIDER OCCUPANCY MAXIMUMS, UH, INSTEAD OF A BUILDING SQUARE FOOTAGE AS IT RELATES TO, UM, THIS USE, SHOULD WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THE G D C AMENDMENT.
UM, OF COURSE THERE'S ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, RISK WITH THESE TYPES OF USES, UM, NOISE PARKING, ET CETERA.
UM, THERE'S JUST KIND OF A REASON OR BACKGROUND I SHOULD SAY THAT THE G D C, UH, HAS SOME VERY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE AS FAR AS LAWYERING AND, UM, HOURS OF OPERATIONS, SECURITY, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UM, AS, AS YOU KNOW, WE, WE CONTROL THE LAND USE, BUT NOT THE PEOPLE, NOT THE TYPES OF EVENTS.
SO, UM, WE CAN LIMIT IT THROUGH OCCUPANCY AND SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY LIMIT THE TYPE OF PARTIES THAT THAT CAN TAKE PLACE.
UM, UH, STANDALONE, THIS WAS JUST KIND OF A, A, JUST TAKING A STEP BACK, MORE HIGH LEVEL THE SUCH FACILITIES.
ONE KIND OF, UM, REALITY WITH THEM IS THEY TYPICALLY DON'T GENERATE YOUR DAYTIME TRAFFIC.
SO IF IT IS, ASSUMING THE SPACE IS A FULL-TIME RECEPTION FACILITY, UM, THEY'RE TYPICALLY HELD IN THE EVENING, SO SOMETIMES THAT CAN MEAN CLOSED DOORS DURING THE DAY.
UM, AND, UH, AND THEN JUST AS A CONSIDERATION, THEY'RE CURRENTLY ALL ALLOWED BY SS U P ONLY.
SO THEY CAN ALWAYS BE REVIEWED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS VIA SS U P, SHOULD THE COMMITTEE, UH, NOT WISH TO MAKE A CHANGE TO THE G D C AND APPLICANTS WOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO REQUEST DEVIATIONS THAT KIND OF TAILOR OR THAT MAKES SENSE TO THEIR, UH, PROPOSAL.
UM, AND SO REALLY TWO OPTIONS ARE ONE, UH, CREATE KIND OF A QUOTE UNQUOTE SMALL RECEPTION FACILITY DEFINITION AND ALLOWANCE BY RIGHT, UH, IN CERTAIN ZONING DISTRICTS, UM, AND CONSIDERED BY OCCUPANCY, UH, RATHER THAN SQUARE FOOTAGE OR OPTION TWO IS NO CHANGE, UH, RECEPTION FACILITIES, REGARDLESS OF THE SIZE, CAN CONTINUE TO BE REQUESTED BY S U P, UM, ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS AND CAN REQUEST APPROPRIATE DEVIATIONS, UH, FROM THOSE SPECIAL STANDARDS, UM, SUCH AS ON ONSITE SECURITY PERSONNEL.
MR. CHAIRMAN AND MS. VAN HORN IS HERE THIS, THIS AFTERNOON IN CASE THERE ARE MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT OCCUPANCIES AND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
WE HAVE KIND OF SOME THRESHOLDS ABOUT, UM, WITH SOME NUMBERS.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, UM, IF YOU HIT 50 OR MORE THAN 50 OCCUPANCY WISE, THAT TRIGGERS THE NEED FOR TWO EXIT DOORS OVER 100 THAT TRIGGERS A SPRINKLER SYSTEM, UH, OR OF COURSE 5,000 SQUARE FEET BUILDING SIZE, BUT IN TERMS OF OCCUPANCY, OVER A HUNDRED TRIGGERS A SPRINKLER SYSTEM.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S A FEW OCCUPANTS OCCUPANCY THRESHOLDS THAT, UM, WE KIND OF HAVE TO WORK WITH, UM, IN THAT REGARD.
[00:25:01]
I'LL PAUSE THERE, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS OR FEEDBACK.ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE? UM, SO WHAT BROUGHT THIS UP WAS THE EPIPHANY ART GALLERY ON, UH, STATE STREET.
SO DO YOU HAPPEN SINCE THAT WAS WHAT ORIGINALLY STARTED THE DISCUSSION, UM, DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW HOW WOULD THIS FIT INTO, IF WE WERE GOING TO SAY CONSIDERED BY OCCUPANCY MM-HMM.
SO, UM, I KNOW JUMPING BACK TO SQUARE FOOTAGE, HER SPACE IS ABOUT 1400 SQUARE FEET, I BELIEVE, UM, MS. VANHORN CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S BETWEEN 50 AND 60, UH, OCCUPANCY WISE WHAT WE LAND ON LANDED ON.
YEAH, HER, UM, GOOD AFTERNOON.
UM, THE, THE, HER PROPOSAL HAS CHANGED A BIT OVER THE COURSE OF TIME AS FAR AS THE RECEPTION FACILITY GOES, WHEN IT'S GOES FROM AN ART GALLERY INTO RECEPTION FACILITY, THE OCCUPANT LOAD THAT SHE'S NOW PROPOSING IS, I THINK IT'S 56, BUT IT'S BETWEEN 50 AND 60.
SO IT THROWS HER INTO THAT TWO EXITS REQUIRED, BUT THE SPACE HAS TWO EXITS, SO THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE.
AND SHE IS UNDER A HUNDRED, UH, OCCUPANTS, UM, IN THAT BUILDING.
I THINK LAST I HEARD SHE WAS TRYING TO WORK OUT IF HER SPACE WAS A SEPARATE BUILDING OR IF, UM, IT WAS PART OF A LARGER BUILDING.
SO THE 5,000 SQUARE FEET IS STILL IN PLAY AND SHE WAS WORKING IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ON THAT.
WELL, AND I'M NOT INTERESTED IN TAILORING, TAILORING A, UM, A SOLUTION TO FIT ONE PARTICULAR SITE, BUT JUST USING THAT AS WHEN I FIRST BECAME AWARE THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE HERE.
AND SO, UM, AND S S U P COSTS ARE GENERALLY A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS.
SO, UM, AND THE DIFFICULTY THAT, THAT SHE EXPRESSED, AND IT'S PROBABLY HAPPENING ALL OVER THE DOWNTOWN ALREADY WITHOUT ANYBODY KNOWING IS, YOU KNOW, THIS WOULD BE LIKE AN AFTER HOUR EMPLOYEE'S PARTY OR AN AFTER HOUR BIRTHDAY PARTY OR THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, WHICH AGAIN, IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE DOWNTOWN IN OTHER RETAIL STORES EVEN, WHICH IS FINE APPARENTLY.
UM, BUT THERE'S A LINE DRAWN WHERE IF, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE RENTING OUT A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR SPACE TO OTHER PEOPLE TO HAVE BIRTHDAY PARTIES OR ANNIVERSARY PARTIES OR SOMETHING, UM, THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THAT PUTS IT UNDER THIS RECEPTION FACILITY DEFINITION, WHICH JUST DOESN'T FIT FOR SMALL SPACES.
SO, UM, MY SUGGESTION FROM STAFF AT THAT TIME WHEN THIS CAME UP WAS, YOU KNOW, CONSIDER CREATING DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN LARGE, UM, LARGE RECEPTION OR EVENTS AND SMALL ONES.
SO THAT WAS MY, THAT WAS MY, UM, HOPE IN GOING THROUGH THIS IS, IS THERE A REASONABLE WAY TO DO THAT GRACEFULLY WITHOUT DRIVING ALL OF YOU CRAZY AND TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH IT.
SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE, UM, AND I HATE HAVING CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE THAT SMALL BUSINESSES AND MAKING THEM PAY $2,000 PLUS TO GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS TO BE ABLE TO USE AN AREA IN THEIR OWN STORE FOR AN ALTERNATE STREAM OF INCOME.
UM, SO THE BREAKDOWNS YOU GAVE FOR THE CONSIDERING BY OCCUPANCY RATHER THAN SQUARE FOOTAGE, UM, KIND OF THAT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT HUGE EVENTS BEING JAMMED INTO SMALL PLACES.
SO MY, MY INITIAL LEANING IS TOWARD, TOWARD OPTION ONE.
SO THAT, AND I DON'T THINK THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING A WHOLE LOT, FRANKLY.
I DON'T THINK PEOPLE WOULD BE COMING FOR ONE TO LET US KNOW IF THEY WERE DOING THIS.
UM, BUT MAKING THEM FOR THESE SMALL THINGS GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS STUFF WITH AN S U P AND THEN HAVING TO FIGURE OUT ALL THE DEVIATIONS, IT'S, IT'S BURDENSOME IF IT'S NOT NECESSARY.
SO IT'S WHERE I AM AS OF NOW, SO THANK YOU,
SO, UM, QUESTION, HOW ARE THE OCCUPANCY RATES FIGURED AS FAR AS THE BUILDING CODE MM-HMM.
SO WHAT WE SEE IS WE SEE THESE SPACES THAT ARE, HAVE MULTIPLE USES.
AND SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT BUILDING CODE RELATED REQUIREMENTS, WE PICK, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THEM AND FIGURE OUT WHICH IS THE MOST IMPACTFUL OR RESTRICTIVE, IF YOU WANNA THINK OF IT THAT WAY.
[00:30:02]
SO AN ART GALLERY IS ONE THING AS AN ART GALLERY, AND THEN IT TURNS INTO A DIFFERENT OCCUPANCY TYPE IF IT'S USED FOR AN EVENT, AND THEN IT, IT CHANGES WHEN YOU GET UP TO, WHEN YOU GET OVER 49, YOU GET TO 50, IT CHANGES AGAIN.AND SO WE HAVE TO KIND OF SORT THROUGH ALL OF THE DIFFERENT PROPOSALS AND ALL THE DIFFERENT LAYOUTS THAT THEY WANNA TRY TO ACHIEVE TO GET THEM THE BEST BUSINESS OPERATIONS AND THEN LOOK AT THE MOST KIND OF, UM, IMPACTFUL AS FAR AS SAFETY AND NUMBER OF OCCUPANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
I MEAN, NORMALLY AT 49 OR LESS, YOU'RE AN, YOU'RE A BE OCCUPANCY, YOU CAN KIND OF FLEX, YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH ONE EXIT, YOU CAN DO A LOT OF THINGS THAT KEEP YOU IN SORT OF A SAFE PLACE.
AND THEN YOU GET OVER THAT IS WHERE YOU START GETTING INTO THESE RULES THAT KIND OF SHIFT AROUND.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? WELL, SO KIND OF, SO LET'S SAY THIS, YOU CAN TAKE IT FARTHER.
WE'LL TAKE THIS ART GALLERY MM-HMM.
SO THEN WOULD THE OCCUPANCY RATE BE BASED UPON THE ENTIRE AREA OR JUST ON THE AREA THEY WANT TO USE FOR RECEPTION? IT WOULD STILL BE BASED ON THE ENTIRE AREA.
'CAUSE THEORETICALLY YOU COULD HAVE THEM OPERATING AT THE SAME TIME, AND SOMETIMES YOU DO.
WELL, WHAT IF IT WERE OFFICES OR A KITCHEN OR SOMETHING THAT'S NOT U ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC? WOULD THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE THEN BE TAKEN IN, INTO CONSIDERATION AS WELL? IT IS, BUT ONLY FOR THE USE THAT IT IS.
SO IF IT'S ONLY USED AS A KITCHEN, IT WOULD BE OCCU, IT WOULD BE AN OCCUPANCY FOR KITCHEN, WHICH IS VERY LOW.
IF YOU HAD AN OFFICE, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, BUT STILL RELATIVELY LOW.
SO IN THE COMBINATION OF ALL THOSE THINGS, YOU WOULD BASICALLY ADD THEM ALL TOGETHER AND GET YOUR OCCUPANT LOAD IF THE SPACE IS TRULY KIND OF SHARES, EXITS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH IS TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS.
THIS SPACE HAS A SMALL BACK OFFICE AREA AND QUITE A LARGE KIND OF FRONT ROOM, WHICH IS MULTIPURPOSE.
SO THE ART GALLERY BECOMES THE EVENT SPACE.
IT, IT SOMETIMES IS LIKE THAT, SOMETIMES NOT.
SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, AND IT DOESN'T APPLY HERE, BUT A RESTAURANT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A, A DINING ROOM THAT'S FOR PRIVATE EVENTS, SO THAT'S CALCULATED AS A DINING ROOM.
YOU STILL HAVE THE REST OF THE RESTAURANT IN THE KITCHEN AND ALL THAT STUFF THAT ARE CALCULATED AND ADDED TO THAT.
BUT THOSE ARE CALCULATED DIFFERENTLY.
THEY, THEY CAN BE CALCULATED DIFFERENTLY DEPENDING ON THE, HOW YOU'RE GONNA USE THE SPACE.
YOU KNOW, STANDING ROOM ONLY IS DIFFERENT THAN TABLES AND CHAIRS AND WE, SO WE ASK ALL THESE QUESTIONS AND PEOPLE HAVE TO SORT OF THINK AHEAD FOR EVENTS BECAUSE, UM, THEY HAVE TO, TO SORT OF PLAN FOR THE WORST CASE SCENARIO.
SO THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS INVOLVED.
LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S SAY A GUY HAS AN AREA THAT'S 2000 SQUARE FEET MM-HMM.
AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA SAY THAT CARRIES THE SAME OCCUPANCY AS THE REST OF IT, BUT IF ANOTHER GUY HAD A SPACE THAT WAS COMPLETELY OPEN AT 2000 SQUARE FEET MM-HMM.
HE'S THEN GOING TO HAVE A HIGHER, HIGHER OCCUPANCY.
UM, YEAH, 'CAUSE OF COURSE, I MEAN THE, THE SAFETY'S MY CONCERN, RIGHT? AND IF YOU, IF WE LOOKED AT THOSE THE SAME, THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE ANOTHER ONE PLACE THAT'S TWICE AS COMPACT AS THE OTHER MM-HMM.
UM, YEAH, I WOULD, I WOULD DEFINITELY BE LEANING TOWARD, UM, YOU KNOW, CREATING A DEFINITION FOR A SMALL RECEPTION FACILITY.
AND, AND I WOULD, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LEAN TOWARD KEEPING IT UNDER 50.
UM, THAT WOULD JUST BE, JUST BE MY OPINION, THAT THAT'S A PRETTY CLEAN WAY TO DO IT.
UM, YOU KNOW, JUST, AND, AND IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF, EVEN AT 49, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST GOOD TO BE THINKING ABOUT PARKING AND, I MEAN, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT ALL, UM, PAINT AND TAKE KIND OF EVEN, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE, THERE, THERE, IT, IT CAN BE A VERY WIDE VARIETY OF EVENT TYPES.
SO YOU'RE GONNA, WITH THAT PROPOSAL, YOU WOULD STILL NOT HAVE SOME OF THE, I THINK THE SECURITY, UNLESS IT WAS ADDED IN AND SOME OF THOSE OTHER THINGS, IT MAY NOT BE NEEDED.
IN SOME CASES IT MAY BE NEEDED IN OTHERS.
SO YOU JUST GOTTA BE THINKING ABOUT KIND OF THE WIDE VARIETY OF EVENTS THAT CAN HAPPEN STILL AT THAT NUMBER AND HOW YOU MIGHT WANNA CONSIDER THOSE RULES FOR THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
ISN'T, UM, ISN'T PARKING AL ALREADY CONSIDERED THOUGH? WELL, NOT NECESSARILY.
UM, THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT SCENARIO.
I MEAN, YOU CAN COME UP WITH MILLION SCENARIOS OF WHAT THIS MIGHT LOOK LIKE, BUT SURE.
IF YOU HAVE A, IF YOU HAVE A, AN ART GALLERY THAT THE ART GALLERY USE HAS AN OCCUPANT LOAD OF 15, AND THEN THAT SAME SPACE GETS STANDING ROOM ONLY FOR AN EVENT AND IT'S NOW 50 THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THREE TIMES, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE OVER THREE TIMES AS MUCH.
SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT A SPACE, YOU GOTTA BE THINKING ABOUT PARKING FOR THE HIGHER NUMBER.
AND OF COURSE, THE BIGGER THE SPACE GETS, THE MORE IMPACTFUL THAT COULD BE, DEPENDING ON THE SCENARIO.
[00:35:01]
OKAY.SO YEAH, I'M, I'M DEFINITELY YES AND NO.
I'M DEFINITELY OPEN TO LOOKING AT IT AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE'S, THERE'S THINGS THAT WE HAVEN'T EVEN THOUGHT OF YET.
SO YEAH, I'D, I'D DEFINITELY BE INTERESTED IN PURSUING OPTION ONE A LITTLE FURTHER.
I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT OPTION.
TO ME, IN THIS CASE, IF IT'S SMALL RECEPTIVE FACILITY, WE DON'T WANT IT TO GET, I DON'T THINK ANYWHERE NEAR A HUNDRED WHERE THEY REQUIRE THAT MUCH.
MANY, EVEN A SPRINKLER SYSTEM MALL, THOSE LARGER OCCUPANCY A HUNDRED IS A LARGE, VERY LARGE PARTY TO ME.
NEVER HAD A BIRTHDAY PARTY THAT BIG.
SO
SO
SO, UM, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, IS THERE, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT, THAT WE SHOULD BE CONSIDERING? CAN WE GO BACK AND CREATE OR REQUIRE PARKING? THIS ISN'T ALREADY A BUSINESS THAT'S ALREADY OPERATING.
WE CAN'T RETROACTIVELY CREATE PARKING, CAN WE? OR WE CAN JUST DENY THE USE BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE PARKING.
I MEAN, I THINK THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED THROUGH, WELL, THEY'VE ALL GONE THROUGH THE S U P PROCESS MM-HMM.
SO I THINK THAT'S BEEN CONSIDERED AS PART OF THEIR PROPOSAL.
SO THE, THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED, I DON'T THINK ARE AN ISSUE THAT THESE SMALLER ONES, YOU KNOW, IT, IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE A, IF SOMEONE WANTED TO HAVE A MULTI-PURPOSE OR A SMALL RECEPTION FACILITY, WE COULD STILL HAVE THEM PARK IT AT THE 49 OCCUPANT LEVEL, WHICH IS NOT A HUGE NUMBER OF SPACES.
IS IT ONE PER YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA JUST PULL UP THE G D C, WE, WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT IS.
I DON'T THINK IT'S, IT'S NOT A HUGE NUMBER, BUT IT'S, IT'S GONNA CERTAINLY BE MORE THAN, IT'S GONNA BE MORE THAN WHAT YOU WOULD SEE ON THEIR NORMAL BUSINESS IF THEY'RE OPERATING TWO BUSINESSES IN THE SAME SPACE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING MIGHT BE LIKE NOISE.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF SECURITY IS AN ISSUE.
I MEAN, I, I THINK IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE EVENT, YOU KNOW, UM, HOPE THAT THE PAINT AND SIP FOLKS ARE NOT GETTING TOO ROWDY, YOU KNOW, BUT THERE, THERE CAN BE EVENTS THAT I WOULD SUSPECT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT WANNA HAVE, I DON'T KNOW, I'M, I'M SPECULATING HERE, YOU KNOW, SOME, SOMEBODY GETS NOTIFIED THAT THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON OR I DON'T KNOW.
WELL, WE DO HAVE, UM, COMPLICATED, YOU KNOW, AT THE, THE ATRIUM EVENT CENTER, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE RULES ON WHEN SECURITY IS REQUIRED AND, AND UM, OF COURSE WE HAVE NOISE ORDINANCES.
SO, UM, WHAT IS THE, I KNOW ONE AT THE ATRIUM IF, IF THERE'S CHILDREN, THEY HAVE TO HAVE POLICE.
IF THERE'S ALCOHOL, THEY HAVE TO HAVE POLICE AND IF IT'S OVER A CERTAIN OCCUPANCY.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT OCCUPANCY IS, IS DEFINITELY OVER A HUNDRED.
SO YEAH, IF THEY HAVE SMALLER EVENTS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE POLICE.
BUT IF IT'S, IF IT'S, IF THERE'S CHILDREN OR ALCOHOL, I GOTTA, I GOTTA THINK WITH THESE KIND OF SITUATIONS, LIKE WITH YOUR SITUATION, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PROBABLY GONNA BE DRINKING WINE AND STUFF, BUT WE DON'T REQUIRE, LIKE IF SOMEBODY GOES TO ONE OF THOSE PLACES WHERE YOU PAINT AND DRINK, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REQUIRE SECURITY THERE, DO WE? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.
AND, AND THOSE ARE USUALLY, THOSE ARE REALLY USUALLY SMALL.
AND THAT'S THE PRIMARY BUSINESS USE IS JUST RE IT'S MORE LIKE RETAIL.
IT FALLS OUTTA RETAIL OR MAYBE AN ART.
BUT THEY DO HAVE A LIQUOR LICENSE AND SO THEY PROBABLY HAVE TO FOLLOW CERTAIN RULES AS RELATED TO THEIR LIQUOR LICENSE, I WOULD SUSPECT.
UNLESS THEY ARE BRING YOUR OWN.
I THINK THERE'S SOME EXCEPTIONS.
WELL, IF IT'S BRING YOUR OWN, THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A LICENSE WHATSOEVER.
UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, MAY I INTERJECT ON THIS A LITTLE BIT PLEASE? YES.
UM, SO IF WE GO WITH THE OCCUPANCY LEVEL, IS THE POINT TO STILL REQUIRE SUVS OR NOT REQUIRE SUVS? I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO CREATE A NEW DEFINITION THAT WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF THE S U P PROCESS THERE BY NOT HAVING ANY REGULATIONS FOR US TO CONSIDER.
IF IF WE'RE SAYING THAT HEY, IF IT'S 50 OR LESS, THEN YOU DON'T QUALIFY AS THIS CURRENT DEFINITION, WHICH REQUIRES THE S U P.
RIGHT? WE DON'T REQUIRE YOU TO DO ANYTHING.
AND I WOULD ALSO WANNA POINT YOU BACK TO THE, THE CURRENT DEFINITION OF RECEPTION FACILITY, WHICH IS AN ESTABLISHMENT IS OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC OR MADE AVAILABLE FOR PRIVATE USE, PRIMARILY FOR THE PROVISION OF FACILITIES FOR PARTIES, DANCES, RECEPTIONS, BANQUETS OR SIMILAR SOCIAL EVENTS.
THE TERM DOES NOT INCLUDE RESTAURANTS, HOTELS, COUNTRY CLUBS, THEATERS
[00:40:01]
OR COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENTS THAT PROVIDE FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES AS A SECONDARY USE.SO KEEPING THAT IN MIND, THE ART FACILITIES DOWNTOWN, WE HAVE RESTAURANTS DOWNTOWN.
THE RESTAURANTS COULD HAVE THESE FUNCTIONS AND NOT HAVE TO DO DEAL WITH ANY OF THE REGULATIONS YOU'RE DISCUSSING WHILE WE START THINKING ABOUT REQUIRING A, THE, UH, OCCUPANCY SS U P FOR THE SMALLER FACILITY AND PUTTING ALL THESE REGULATIONS ON 'EM, IT IS NOT MAKING A LOT OF SENSE.
BUT I JUST WANNA POINT THAT OUT TO WHAT I WAS SEEING IN YOUR DISCUSSION HERE AND WHAT EXISTS CURRENTLY.
AND UH, HOWEVER, IN OUR DEFINITION HERE, WE STILL REQUIRE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR RECEPTION FACILITIES BASED UPON, WELL UP THERE IT'S EITHER SQUARE FOOTAGE OR OCCUPANTS.
RIGHT? IT'S THE ONE, ONE SPACE PER 100 OF A GROSS FLOOR AREA OR ONE SPACE FOR EACH THREE OCCUPANTS.
AND I KNOW DOWNTOWN AREAS HAVE CERTAIN WAIVERS ON PARKING REQUIREMENTS ANYWAY.
IN FACT, I BELIEVE THE EXAMPLE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS WITHIN AN AREA THAT DOES NOT HAVE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS OFF STREET.
AND, AND AGAIN, WE NEED TO, UM, I'M USING THE SITUATION DOWN THE STREET AS A, AS A THOUGHT STARTER WITH SOMETHING CONCRETE, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO CRAFT THIS AROUND A DOWNTOWN FACILITY 'CAUSE THEY CAN BE ANYWHERE IN THE CITY AND, AND THERE ARE OTHER REQUIREMENTS.
SO, UM, I WOULD BE FINE WHEN WE'RE TALKING A SMALL RECEPTION FACILITY DEFINITION WHERE WE'D COMPLETELY STAY OUT OF ALL THE SS U P STUFF AND EXPENSES AND REQUIREMENTS AND FUSSY THINGS, THINGS, IF WE WANTED TO REDUCE THE OCCUPANCY FROM 50 AND SAY 25, YOU KNOW, JUST IF, IF THAT, IF THAT FEELS COMFORTABLE, MORE COMFORTABLE TO EVERYBODY AND JUST SAY IF THIS, IF IT'S 25 OR UNDER LIMIT IT, 'CAUSE 50 IS STILL A PRETTY GOOD GROUP OF PEOPLE.
SO I WOULD PROBABLY, FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WANTING TO DO THIS, USE, YOU KNOW, GET AN EXTRA INCOME STREAM BY, YOU KNOW, AND ROSALYN, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH AN S U P PROCESS.
YOU KNOW, THEY DO EVENTS THERE ALL THE TIME.
THEY'RE TECHNICALLY A RESTAURANT.
COFFEE SHOPS ARE RESTAURANTS AND THAT'S PROBABLY JUST, THAT'S JUST TO THE POINT.
THIS IS HAPPENING ALL THE TIME ALREADY, BUT THEY'RE NOT HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS.
UM, LIKE OUR CONVENTION CENTERS ARE LIKE, LIKE LARGE EVENT CENTERS.
SO IF THERE'S A, A MORE, A BETTER LEVEL OF COMFORT ABOUT JUST DROPPING THE FIF THE NUMBER FROM 50 TO SOME OTHER RANDOM, LESSER NUMBER, I WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT.
IT COULD BE DOES THAT BRITA, DOES THAT, YOU KNOW, MAKE YOU ANY MORE POLICY? 49 OR LESS POLICY? I MEAN 49 OR LESS.
AND I HONESTLY, I JUST, I ONLY BROUGHT IT UP TO JUST BE THINKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE OF BETWEEN 49 AND LIKE 10.
'CAUSE SOMETIMES THE DIFFERENCE IS PRETTY DRAMATIC, BUT I'M, I'M FINE WITH ANYTHING.
UM, IT'S EASY AT 49 AND LESS TO JUST, IT'S EASY ON OUR, IN MY END OF THINGS ANYWAY, IT'S EASY ON THE FIRE SIDE AS WELL.
THE, THE WAY THAT WE WOULD MONITOR AND OVERSEE THIS AND, AND EVEN I'M FINE WITH 40 49 AND YOU'RE SUBJECT TO ALL THE OTHER CITY LIMITS NOISE, YOU KNOW, YOU ALREADY LIMIT.
IT'S, IT ALREADY IS A RULE THAT'S ON THE BOOKS, YOU KNOW, SO IF THERE'S A PROBLEM, THERE CERTAINLY IS A COMPLAINT PROCESS.
WITH THAT BEING JUST FOR EXTRA CLARIFICATION YEAH, THE NOISE, NOISE ORDINANCES ALL APPLY.
SO I ASSUME, I ASSUME YEAH, WE'RE CUTTING IT DOWN TO 25 OR 49, A SMALL NUMBER, THEN THOSE WOULDN'T REALLY BE NECESSARY OR MAKE SENSE, UM, IF I'M CORRECT.
AND I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS SECURITY KEEPING IT UNDER 49 AND YEAH, I THINK THE OTHER CONCERNS, LIKE I GUESS NOISE WOULD BE THE BIGGEST ONE, UM, THAT'S ALREADY ADDRESSED ELSEWHERE.
CREATE A, CREATE A SMALL RECEPTION FACILITY 49 OR LESS.
AND THIS WOULD STILL BE IN THE COMMERCIAL, THE SAME DISTRICTS THAT IT'S ALLOWED NOW, CORRECT.
IT WOULDN'T BE IN LIKE A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
IS P YEAH, I GIVE YOU ENOUGH, DID WE LAND ON A 49? SO UNDER 50? YEP.
THEN WE'LL GO WITH THAT AND THEN, UH, MOVE TO REPORT THAT OUT TO COUNCIL THEN IF EVERYONE'S OKAY.
THAT WAS THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA.