* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. PIZZA HUTT. [Charter Review Committee on November 14, 2023.] [00:00:02] ALL RIGHT. UH, LET'S SEE. THIS IS NOVEMBER 14TH MEETING, UH, THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE. IT IS 6:30 PM AND ITEM NUMBER ONE, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 24TH, 2023 MEETING. ANYBODY AND EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO READ IT. TWO D. THERE'S A TYPO. BILL'S LAST NAME IS NOT OWENS. THANK YOU. I READ THROUGH 'EM, BUT I DIDN'T CATCH THAT ONE. 'CAUSE I'M BAD ON I DID NOT EITHER. I AM BAD ON NAMES. I DIDN'T CATCH IT. . WELL, DO I ANY OTHER COMMENTS? IS, IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE IT WITH THE, UH, CHANGES? SO MOVED. SECOND. ALL RIGHTY. WE HAVE MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE WITH THE VOICE CHANGES. . ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. IT IS UNANIMOUS. ALL RIGHTY. UH, NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS PUBLIC COMMENTS. SEEING IT'S HOW THERE'S NOBODY IN THE ROOM AND THE DOOR IS OPEN. LET ME DOUBLE CHECK THAT. , GOOD CITY COUNCIL LOCKED US . THE DOOR IS OPEN, SO WE ARE GOOD TO GO ON THAT. ALL RIGHT. ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. CONSIDER CHANGES TO ARTICLE THREE. SECTION ONE F RELATED TO GERRYMANDERING. AND WE HAVE A PACKAGE ON THAT WITH ALL THE STUFF PUT TOGETHER. MR. SMITH, DO YOU WANT TO LEAD ON THAT OR, OR DID YOU WANNA TAKE IT OR, OH, I WAS JUST GONNA LET Y'ALL KNOW, UM, WE TOOK A LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE. UH, I DIDN'T FIND ANY MAJOR LEGAL HURDLES IN WHAT MR. SMITH HAD RECOMMENDED AT YOUR LAST MEETING. UM, SO WE'VE GOT THOSE IN THERE. BUT WE ALSO WANTED TO LET Y'ALL KNOW THAT WE HAD DONE A POLL OF OTHER CITIES THAT'S INCLUDED IN YOUR BACKUP. UH, MR. SMITH'S LANGUAGE IS VERY, VERY CLOSE TO, UH, ONE OF THOSE CITIES. BASICALLY, IT WAS DALLAS AND AUSTIN THAT HAD THE, THE BIG LANGUAGE LIKE Y'ALL WANTED TO LOOK AT. UM, SO THOSE ARE INCLUDED IN THEIR ENTIRETY IN THE BACKUP, AS WELL AS SOME OTHER CITIES THAT HAD ALTERNATIVE LANGUAGE. UM, THAT WAS, SOME OF IT WAS, WAS PRETTY BLAND. UH, NOT MUCH TO IT. UM, SOME OF THEM HAD RANDOM CLAUSES THAT I DON'T THINK WOULD APPLY TO US, UM, BUT WANTED TO LET Y'ALL KNOW WHAT WE DID. FINE. SO ALL THAT'S IN YOUR BACKUP AND WITHOUT A MAJOR LEGAL HURDLE TO THE LANGUAGE. IT'S REALLY JUST A QUESTION OF HOW DO YOU, AS THE COMMITTEE RECOMMEND TO COUNSEL THAT IT READ. AND SO IF YOU WANT TO GO WITH MR. SMITH'S LANGUAGE, THAT'S FINE. IF YOU WANT TO COBBLE TOGETHER SOME OF THE LANGUAGE, THAT'S FINE TOO. BUT WE LEAVE IT OPEN TO YOUR DISCUSSION. I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT'S CLEAR AND CONCISE. YOU TALKING ABOUT MR. SMITH'S? MM-HMM. . YEAH, I AGREE. YEAH, THERE WAS SOME EXTRA STUFF IN SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES THAT REALLY NEED TO BE THERE. I AGREE. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? WELL, THIS IS A TOUGH ONE. DO I HEAR A MOTION TO AFFORD THIS TO THE COUNSEL AS PRESENTED? I'LL SO MOVE SECOND. ALL RIGHTY. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? WE'RE, WE'RE FORWARDING THE MR. SMITH'S LANGUAGE, RIGHT? YES. YEAH. OKAY. CHAIR. I'M SORRY. WE'RE HAVING TROUBLE FOLLOWING. WHO'S MAKING THE MOTION AND WHO'S MAKING THE SECOND? BECAUSE WE'RE OKAY. A LITTLE MORE SPREAD OUT. CALL OUT WHO YOU ARE WHEN YOU'RE MAKING THE MOTIONS IN SECONDS. SO, 'CAUSE I'M NOT ALWAYS HEARING IT EITHER. SO WHAT'D YOU SAY? SECOND. BECAUSE THERE'S, THEY'LL TELL YOU ON THE PLAN COMMISSION GOING. WHO MADE THE SECOND? HUH? ALL RIGHTY. THAT ONE WAS EASY. LET'S SEE, WHAT DO WE HAVE NEXT? ITEM B, CONSIDER CHANGES FOR COUNCIL. ITEM 10, ARTICLE FOUR, SECTION THREE RELATED TO COUNCIL MEMBER COMMUNICATIONS AND INTER INTERACTIONS WITH CITY STAFF APPOINTEES. AND I THINK WE LEFT THIS ONE THE SAME EXCEPT FOR MR. CHAIRMAN. ANY PENALTIES? YEAH. DID WE VOTE FOR THE OTHER ITEM? OH, I GUESS WE DIDN'T. WE HAD A MOTION. AND SECOND. DID WE, DID WE VOTE? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. THANK YOU. NO, THAT'S MR. SMITH'S SUGGESTION. . OKAY. I JUST GOT MORE VERBAL. I APPRECIATE IT. THAT'S WHY I NEED THE HELP HERE. WHAT'D YOU SAY? OKAY. WE, WE ARE NOW ON, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER COMMUNICATIONS INTERACTIONS WITH CITY STAFF APPOINTEES. AND I THINK THE DIRECTION LAST TIME, AS WE KEEP THAT VERBIAGE THE SAME, BUT ADJUST ANY PENALTIES INVOLVED. YES. CHAIR. THE NEXT SEVERAL ITEMS WERE ONES THAT Y'ALL TALKED ABOUT AT THE LAST MEETING, BUT THE LANGUAGE ITSELF WASN'T COMPLETELY SAID. IT WAS, HEY, STAFF WORK ON WHAT WE, WHAT OUR IDEA WAS AND BRING BACK THE LANGUAGE FOR YOUR REVIEW. AND SO THAT'S WHAT THE NEXT SEVERAL ITEMS ARE. SO IF Y'ALL HAVE RECOMMENDED REVISIONS OR ANYTHING, JUST LET US KNOW AND WE'RE HAPPY TO MAKE THOSE. I'LL LET Y'ALL CATCH UP AND TAKE A LOOK. WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THREE B, CORRECT? YEAH. [00:05:01] OKAY. UH, WHERE THE NEW LANGUAGE IS. MM-HMM. VIOLATION OF THE CITY'S CODIFIED CODE OF ETHICS ARTICLE. FIVE OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES MAY BE AMENDED WITH ENFORCEMENT PROVISIONS DETAIL, UM, DETAILED THEREIN. SORRY. DIDN'T THOUGHT THAT WAS STRUCK OUT. . IN OTHER WORDS, THE COUNCIL CAN SET THEIR OWN PENALTIES IN THEIR OWN CODE OF ETHICS, RIGHT? , MR. CHAIR? YES. UH, THERE'S NO DISCUSSION. I'LL MOVE ADOPTION OF THE LANGUAGE. SECOND. ALL RIGHTY. WE HAVE A MOTION BY MR. SMITH AND HEARD ANOTHER ONE. UH, SECOND BY COM. COMMISSIONER ROSE. I KEEP DOING THAT. BEEN SO MANY YEARS. ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? ALL IN FAVOR MOVING IT FORWARD. AYE. AYE. AYE. ALRIGHT, NEXT ONE. CONSIDER CHANGES FOR COUNCIL. ITEM NINE, ARTICLE FOUR, SECTION TWO RELATED TO COUNCIL REMOVAL OF APPOINTED OFFICIALS. AND LET ME MAKE SURE I GOT THAT ONE OUT. I HAVE A QUESTION. YEAH. I'M NOT FINDING MY COPY OF THAT ONE. GO AHEAD. UH, THE LAST FOUR WORDS WITHOUT NOTICE OR CAUSE I THINK IS NOT PROPER. I THINK IF THEY WANT TO GET RID OF SOMEBODY, THEY NEED TO SIT DOWN AND SAY, WE'RE GETTING RID OF YOU BECAUSE, BUT WHATEVER. BUT THEY, THEY NEED TO INFORM THE INDIVIDUAL. IT CAN'T JUST BE A SURPRISE TO THE INDIVIDUAL. MY OPINION. I AGREE. WITHOUT NOTICE OR CAUSE IT LOOKS VINDICTIVE. YEP. AND IF IT'S A POSTED PUBLIC MEETING, DOESN'T THAT COUNTERACT THE IDEA THAT IT'S WITHOUT NOTICE? MM-HMM. . BUT THEN YOU STILL COULD TAKE THE WITHOUT NOTICE AND STILL HAVE THE PUBLIC MEETING AND IT IS NO, WELL, THERE UP AS AN AGENDA ITEM. THERE, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS OF NOTICE. YOU'RE, I THINK YOU'RE THINKING PERSONAL NOTICE OF THE PERSON VERSUS, UH, A LEGAL, UH, CITY NOTICE. YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT TOO. SO SHOULD THERE BE SOME MORE CLARIFICATION IN WAY THIS IS WORDED THEN? MAYBE SO, RIGHT. UM, TO THE CHAIR'S POINT WITHOUT NOTICE OR CAUSE WOULD BE TO THE INDIVIDUAL. IF IT'S THE CITY COUNCIL TAKING ACTION, IT WOULD'VE TO BE AT A POSTED MEETING. BUT THAT'S JUST GENERAL NOTICES REQUIRED UNDER THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT. UM, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THAT REGARDLESS OF THIS SECTION. CORRECT. THIS SECTION WOULD DICTATE IF THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE SOME KIND OF SPECIAL, PERSONAL NOTICE TO THE INDIVIDUAL, WELL THEN CAN'T WE ADD A A, A FEW WORDS IN THERE, A NOTICE OR CAUSE TO THE INDIVIDUAL IF YOU'D LIKE TO YES. PARDON? WITH A REASON. YEAH. UH, MAYBE A WAY TO COVER THAT IS THE INDIVIDUAL IS, UH, TO BE NOTIFIED. UH, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU PUT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF HOURS BEFORE THE MEETING, 72 HOURS. I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW BEST TO DO THAT. BUT WOULDN'T IT BE APPROPRIATE TO MAKE SURE THE PERSON KNOWS WHY THERE'RE BEING I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T THINK SO. NOT REALLY. THAT THAT COULD BE IN, WITHIN THE COUNCIL'S PURVIEW TO FIRE SOMEBODY IF THEY DON'T WANT 'EM. I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S MORE, UM, GOOD FORM THAN PROCESS. YES. YES. WELL, AND I CAN'T IMAGINE SO BEING A BOARD OR COMMITTEE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO NOTIFY THAT PERSON AT SOME POINT OR THEY'RE GONNA SHOW UP FOR THE MEETING. IT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN. SO THERE'S GONNA BE NOTICE. SO IS IT JUST THAT YOU PUT, UM, OUR OTHER BODY WITH OPEN MEETINGS, RECORDS POSTING, OR I MEAN THAT SORT OF THING? OR ARE WE LOOKING, YOU KNOW, ACCORDING TO OPEN MEETINGS? OR DO YOU JUST REMOVE IT BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY MORE LANGUAGE FOR LIKE, UH, HUMAN RESOURCE AND EMPLOYMENT WITHOUT NOTICE OR CAUSE TO ME IS MORE AN EMPLOYMENT LEGALITY. WELL, UH, I THINK FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, WE WOULD WANT IT SPECIFIED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. SO THAT WAY IT'S GOING TO BE HANDLED THE SAME WAY FOR EVERYBODY. AND WE DON'T GET INTO A FIGHT ABOUT, WELL, YOU PROVIDED SO AND SO NOTICE, BUT I DIDN'T GET ANY. SO I THINK FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, I'D RECOMMEND WE PICK, WE PICK A WAY TO DO IT AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DRAFT IT ACCORDINGLY. BUT, UH, INSTEAD OF JUST REMOVING IT ENTIRELY, I'D RECOMMEND WE PUT SOMETHING IN THERE. [00:10:01] I, SINCE IT SAYS UPON THE AFFIRMATIVE VOTE OF FIVE MEMBERS AT A POSTED PUBLIC DUTY, THAT CLARIFIES IT RIGHT THERE. THESE THINGS DON'T, I THINK THE WORD CAUSE IS PART OF WHAT'S MAKING PEOPLE PAUSE TOO. I THINK NOTIFICATION IS KIND OF AN AUTOMATIC PROCESS THING, BUT IT'S THE CAUSE I THINK THAT'S MAKING PEOPLE GO, WE JUST TAKE OUT, STRIKE THE WORDS OR CAUSE WELL, I, TO THE ATTORNEY'S POINT, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A CONSISTENT REQUIREMENT. AND IS IT RE DO WE, AGAIN, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT'S REQUIRED AND WHAT'S A GOOD, GOOD ETIQUETTE. UM, IS IT NECESSARY TO, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF PROCESS AND LEGALITIES, IS IT NECESSARY TO HAVE A SPECIFIC CAUSE OR CAN YOU JUST SIMPLY, I MEAN, I GET YOU ON THE WHOLE VINDICTIVE THING. I'M WITH YOU. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT'S THE REQUIREMENT AND WHY I I'M ALMOST IN YEAH. TAKE OUT OR CAUSE OR CAUSES, BUT MAYBE, UH, WITH NOTICE, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WORD THE NOTICE. UH, SORRY. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PUT OUT NOTICE FOR A MEETING AT A CERTAIN TIME OR WITH NOTICE SUBMITTED AT THE SAME TIME. IT SAYS IN THERE EARLIER. YEAH. OH, BUT THAT, THAT'S PUBLIC NOTICE. IT'S NOT LIKE A ZONING CASE WHERE INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE TO BE NOTIFIED. NO, THE ONLY ONE YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT NOW IS THE PERSON FILE. RIGHT. BUT THEY OUGHT TO BE NOTIFIED THAT THAT'S WHAT I'M, THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT. IF HOSTED PUBLIC MEETING, THEY'RE NOTIFIED. THAT'S PART OF THEIR JOB IS TO BE, IT'S ON THE AGENDA. OKAY. SO THIS IS APPOINTED, THESE ARE APPOINTED BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, COMMITTEES, RIGHT? MM-HMM. . YEAH. NON-CONTRACT. SO THESE ARE NOT EMPLOYEES, CORRECT? CORRECT. THESE ARE APPOINTEES, BUT THEY HAVE FILLED OUT AN APPLICATION FOR THAT POSITION. CORRECT. BUT IT'S NOT, BUT I'M KIND OF THINKING, I MEAN, YOU'VE RUN INTO SOME, DO YOU REALLY WANNA HAVE TO, DO YOU REALLY WANNA HOLD IT TO WHERE THEY HAVE TO DO A LETTER AND OUTLINE THE CAUSE BECAUSE AS AN EMPLOYEE YOU'RE AT WILL AND THEY CAN FIRE YOU WITH OR WITHOUT CAUSE MM-HMM. . AND SO I'M THINKING OF THE PROCESS AS FAR AS MAKING THE NOTICE. I KIND OF LIKE IT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN. YOU, SO THE MAYOR APPOINTS HIS FOLKS. IF HE'S GONNA REPLACE HIM, THERE'S GONNA BE SOME NOTICE. UH, THERE'S USUALLY SOME, YOU'RE USUALLY APPOINTED FOR THE TWO YEARS. AND THEN WHEN THAT PERSON'S REELECTED, THEY, EVERYBODY FEELS THEIR FORMS OUT AGAIN. SO YOU SORT OF HAVE TO REFILL 'EM OUT EVERY TWO YEARS ANYWAY. SO IT'D BE IN THOSE TWO YEARS, UNLESS THERE'S GONNA BE, YOU'RE NOT GONNA JUST MOVE YOU'RE APPOINTEE WITHOUT THERE BEING SOME BIG EVENT KIND OF THING THAT HA LIKE A BIG DISAGREEMENT THAT KIND OF HAPPENS. SO I DON'T, I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE LIKE A, HERE'S THIS LETTER APPOINTEE A WE ARE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, POST THIS. 'CAUSE I THINK WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IS IF THE AFFIRMATIVE VOTE OF FIVE MEMBERS, WHOEVER'S THE LEAD IS LIAISON FOR THAT BORDER COMMITTEE IS GONNA HAVE TO TELL THAT PERSON, HEY, YOU WERE, YOU KNOW, VOTED OFF THE ISLAND. NO, THEY DON'T. SO I DON'T KNOW. YEAH, IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE WHERE UH, WELL THEY DON'T SHOW UP. THEY DON'T HAVE TO. SOMEBODY ELSE IS IN THEIR PLACE. WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE TO. YEAH. BUT I MEAN THAT'S, WELL THE ORIGINAL, I'M THINKING MORE OF LIKE OUTLINING LIKE YOU HAVE TO SEND A NOTICE LIKE THIS. RIGHT. WELL, THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE, YOU KNOW, IT SAID, EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED BY LAW, THE COUNCIL MAY UPON AFFIRMATIVE VOTE OF FIVE MEMBERS REMOVE THE APPOINTED OFFICERS WITHOUT NOTICE OR CAUSE. AND IN THE DISCUSSION WE HAD AT OUR MEETING, I THINK THE DISCUSSION THAT WAS BROUGHT BY THE COUNCIL AS THE COUNCIL, UH, MEMBER WHO APPOINTED YOU, I SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO REMOVE YOU WITHOUT THE OTHER FIVE MEMBER OR THE OTHER FOUR MEMBERS SUPPORTING ME. AND SO I THINK WE DISAGREED WITH THAT, [00:15:01] BUT WE WANTED TO JUST MAYBE PROVIDE CLARIFICATION WITH THIS LANGUAGE AT A POSTED PUBLIC MEETING. AND SO I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY THING WE WERE TRYING TO, TO CHANGE AS WELL AS TO ALSO, UH, PRO PROVIDE CLARITY THAT IT'S NON-CONTRACTUAL. SO WE, WE MADE THAT, THAT'S, YES. SO YOU MADE WE KNEW THAT WAS A AND SO WE, WE, IT IS THE SAME LANGUAGE THAT WAS THERE, BUT WAS JUST BEING CLARIFIED. SO WITHOUT NOTICE WAS ALREADY IN PLACE. AND I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR ME AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT. JUST AS AN ASIDE, UH, WE HAVE HAD MEMBERS OF THE PLAN COMMISSION NOT PROPERLY FILL OUT THE FORM TO BE REAPPOINTED. YEAH. AND THAT, THAT INDIVIDUAL WAS REMOVED. 'CAUSE IT WAS, IT WAS VERY SATIRICALLY FILLED OUT. MM-HMM. NOT PROFESSIONALLY. IT'S MORE OF A COURTESY THING BECAUSE AFTER THE ELECTION, TECHNICALLY THEY DON'T HAVE A POSITION. THEY'RE JUST OBLIGATED. THAT'S THAT EVERY TWO YEAR OVER THING THAT YOU HAVE TO RE AND SO THIS, THIS DOESN'T TOUCH ON THAT LACK OF COURTESY THAT OCCURRED. NO, I UNDERSTAND. BUT, BUT IT SORT OF DANCES AROUND IT RELATED. YEAH. MR. CHAIR. UM, USING THE BEST CASE SCENARIO. 'CAUSE WE ALWAYS LOOK AT THE WORST CASE AS WE SHOULD. UM, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'VE ALREADY TOLD MY COUNCIL MEMBER I'M NOT GONNA SERVE ON PLAN COMMISSION PAST THE 31ST OF DECEMBER. SO WHEN HE GETS READY TO REPLACE ME, I DON'T REALLY NEED NOTICE BECAUSE I'VE ALREADY TOLD HIM. AND THAT'LL PROBABLY BE 95% OF THE CASES. RIGHT. RIGHT. AND THAT, AND THAT IT'S USUALLY AT MOST PEOPLE RESIGN FOR HEALTH REASONS OR FAMILY OR, YOU KNOW, SO THAT RESIGNATION WILL BE TENDERED. BUT I'LL BE HELD OVER IN THAT POSITION DUE TO THE CONSTITUTION. AND THEN WHEN THEY GET READY TO REPLACE ME, I DON'T NEED NOTIFICATION OF WHAT I ALREADY TOLD HIM. J JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, RESIGNATION. THIS DOESN'T AFFECT RESIGNATION. YOU CAN STILL RESIGN AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A HEARING ABOUT IT. THIS IS TO REMOVE CERTAINLY. YES. YEAH. THIS WOULD BE, UH, ACTION OF COUNSEL. THIS IS REMOVAL TO CREATE A VACANCY. YEAH. IN THE POSITION. AND WHEN WE REMOVE FROM THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND CREATE THE VACANCY, ARE THOSE MEMBERS HELD OVER? TECHNICALLY? SO LONG AS YOU'RE NOT DISQUALIFIED, YOU SHOULD HOLD OVER UNTIL YOUR REPLACEMENT IS APPOINTED. HMM. INTERESTING. I WOULD SAY JUST ANOTHER, MAYBE WE ADD SOME LANGUAGE OF UP ON THE AFFIRMATIVE VOTE OF FIVE. HE WAS ELECTED AND THEN MAYBE, OH YEAH. FOR A COUPLE MONTHS, THE CITY OR THE LIAISON, THE BOARD, THE COMMITTEE WOULD JUST SEND A LETTER TO THAT APPOINTEE. AND THAT WAY THAT GIVES 'EM A LETTER THAT SAYS ON SUCH AND SUCH DATE, BY A VOTE OF THIS, YOU'VE BEEN REMOVED. SO THAT GIVES AT LEAST A NOTICE. I THINK. I THINK MOST COUNCILS WOULD HAVE LEGAL FILING OR SECRETARY SEND THAT LETTER OUT ANYHOW. AND THAT COULD BE A FORM WHERE YOU'RE NOT GIVEN CALLS, BUT IT SAYS ON THIS DATE, AFTER A PUBLIC HEARING, YOU'VE BEEN REMOVED OR IT'S IN THE MINUTES ANYWAY. YEAH. AND IT IS, AND AND WE GET LETTERS SAYING WE'VE BEEN APPOINTED. SO IT'D BE, YOU KNOW YEAH. CRADLE TO GRAVE KIND OF THING. YEAH. WELL I WAS GONNA SAY, SINCE Y'ALL WERE SAYING IT'S HAPPENED WHERE SOMEBODY COMES AND SHOWS UP AND DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE REMOVED, . SO AT LEAST THAT WOULD, BUT NOTICE THAT SOME OF US DIDN'T KNOW WHERE WE WERE MEETING TODAY, EVEN THOUGH WE HAD NOTICED IN WRITING. JUST SAY . I'M THERE WITH YOU . QUICK QUESTION. SO LORI, BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, DO WE LEAVE THE NOTIFICATION POST VOTE AS A MATTER OF POLICY FOR THE COUNCIL AND THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO HANDLE YES. OR THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS LIAISON OR WHOEVER AND THEN JUST LEAVE THE CHARTER WITH THE, THE NEW LANGUAGE AS IS. IS THAT A REASONABLE I'M ABOUT THAT. YEAH. OKAY. AND, AND THE MORE WE'VE TALKED IT THROUGH, I THINK THE SITUATION THAT HAPPENED, THIS WOULDN'T ADDRESS THAT ANYHOW. YEAH. 'CAUSE UH, DURING THE ROLLOVER PERIOD, WHICH IS THREE MONTHS TYPICALLY MAY, UH, AUGUST. YEAH. THREE OR FOUR MONTHS. UH, THAT'S USUALLY WHEN THESE THINGS OCCUR, WHERE SOMEBODY'S APPOINTED, THE OTHER'S NOT NOTIFIED AND OH, MM-HMM. THAT'S WHERE IT USUALLY HAPPENS. SO, OKAY. THIS WOULD ADDRESS THAT SITUATION. 'CAUSE I KNOW THAT'S HAPPENED AT LEAST TWO OR THREE TIMES. I KNOW JIM, I'LL MOVE THAT. WE APPROVE IT AS MODIFIED BY, UH, SECOND. ALRIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO USE IT AS WRITTEN. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. THAT IS UNANIMOUS. ALL RIGHTY. GOOD DISCUSSION FOLKS. I'D LIKE THIS SCRIPT. ME TOO. [00:20:02] MAY COUNCIL HERE CONSIDER CHANGES FOR COUNCIL ITEM 11 REGARDING LENGTH OF CONTRACT FOR COUNCIL APPOINTEES, UH, INCLUDING ARTICLE FIVE, SECTION EIGHT, ITEM FIVE, SECTION TWO, ARTICLE SIX, SECTION ONE. ANYBODY CATCH THE TYPO IN THE WRITEUP? I'LL SAY MY TYPO. PEOPLE ARE TO MY LEFT. . PARDON? I SAID MY TYPO PEOPLE ARE TO MY LEFT. NO, I HAD PEOPLE WHO PROVED MY WORK FOR ME AND, AND I'VE ALREADY GOTTEN THE TYPO APPROVED BY THE PERSON WHO'S, UH, AFFECTED. IT SAYS HERE THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY SHALL HAVE A 35 YEAR CONTRACT. . GOOD JOB. GOOD JOB. THAT WORKS FOR ME. THAT'S WHY I LEFT AT THE LAST MINUTE MINUTE. I WANTED TO CLEAR IT WITH BRIAN . HE SAID, YEAH, I LIKE THIS . SURE ENOUGH, . I SAID, I AM YOUR FRIEND AFTER ALL AND THIS IS WHAT WE'VE DONE FOR YOU. NICE. GOOD TRY. GOOD TRY. I DO READ THESE THINGS. I DON'T CATCH EVERYTHING, BUT I I DIDN'T GET IT 35 YEARS. YEAH. IT SAID THREE FIVE. IT'S SAID THREE FIVE. YEAH. DIDN'T THE LINE FLASH? YEAH. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE, UH, REMOVING THE CITY MANAGER. PERSONALLY. I THINK IT OUGHT TO BE MORE THAN FIVE VOTES. I THINK IT OUGHT TO BE SIX VOTES. THAT MEANS IT'S MORE THAN JUST A, UH, MAJORITY NOMINAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE YOU'VE GOT. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. I THINK IT OUGHT TO BE SIX VOTES INSTEAD OF FIVE. 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'D BE TOUGHER TO GET THAT SIXTH PERSON, I THINK, UNLESS THE REASON IS VERY SOUND. AND THEN YOU'LL PROBABLY HAVE NINE PEOPLE SAYING, GET RID OF THAT PERSON. HOW MANY DOES IT TAKE TO HIRE 'EM? FIVE. FIVE FIVE. AS A CITY MANAGER, IF YOU HAD FIVE COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT DIDN'T LIKE YOU, YOU WOULDN'T BE AROUND ANYWAY. WELL, THAT'S TRUE. BUT YOU WOULDN'T STAY, I MEAN YOU WOULD IF YOU KNEW THAT. YEAH. YOU'D PROBABLY GO ELSEWHERE ON YOUR OWN. RIGHT. RIGHT. WOULDN'T BE AN ENVIRONMENT YOU WOULD WALK IN. GOOD POINT. I MEAN, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE HIRING BY FIVE TO FOUR, I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIRE BY FIVE TO FOUR. WELL, OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT PARTICULAR PIECE? OKAY. IF NOT, IT APPEARS TO SAY OTHER THAN THE 35 GOOD TRITE ON THE ATTORNEY. YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE POINTS. I KNOW THAT RIGHT? OH WAIT, LET'S SEE. THIS IS ME. OKAY. OKAY. UH, BUT I WOULD MOVE THAT WE MOVE IT ON TO COUNSEL AND THIS ONE FOR THIS ONE IPOS CORRECTED WITH THE TYPOS CORRECTED. AND THIS ONE FOR CLARITY JUST SUGGESTS EVERYBODY TO A FIVE YEAR CONTRACT. EVERYBODY TO A POTENTIAL CONTRACT. YES. MAX UP. TWO MAXIMUM. MAXIMUM UP TWO. YEAH. AND I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND ON THIS ITEM. AYE. AYE. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL. OKAY. CONSIDER CHANGES FOR COUNCIL. ITEM 14, ARTICLE 11, SECTION FOUR RELATED TO REVISED POWERS GRANTED TO COUNCIL RELATED TO PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS. SO CHAIR, THIS WAS LANGUAGE THAT OUR, UH, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING KIND OF WEIGHED IN ON. UH, THE DIRECTION GIVEN FROM THE COMMITTEE LAST TIME WAS TO KIND OF TAKE OUT THE SPECIFIC STUFF. LET'S MAKE IT, UM, JUST KIND OF MORE OF AN OVERVIEW OF THE POWERS THAT THEY'RE GRANTED INSTEAD OF GETTING DOWN INTO THE WEEDS FOR THE CHARTER, WHICH IS MORE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT OTHER CHARTERS ALSO DO. AND SO THIS WAS KIND OF THE IDEA THAT Y'ALL STARTED WITH AND IT'S BEEN RUN THROUGH OUR PLANNING, UH, DIRECTOR'S OFFICE. AND HE WAS IN SUPPORT OF LANGUAGE LIKE THIS. UM, PHIL? SURE. UH, THERE WAS A, A CONCERN PRESENTED BY THE PLANNING DIRECTOR AND ALSO THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER THAT, UH, IS OVER PLANNING AS IT RELATES TO, UH, DEFINING THE, UH, GDC OR THE DEVELOPMENT CODE AS WELL AS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THERE WAS A CONCERN THAT THAT WOULD, UM, UH, POSSIBLY LIMIT OR HANDCUFF ANY FLEXIBILITY THAT MAY NEED TO TAKE PLACE AS IT RELATES TO ZONING IN THE FUTURE. AND SO, AS, UH, THE, UH, CITY ATTORNEY'S, UH, RECOMMENDATION WAS THERE, OR AT LEAST, I'M SORRY, DISCUSSION WAS THERE? UH, IT WAS, UM, TO KEEP A GENERIC THAT, UH, WOULD BE TO THE STATUTES OR THE POWERS THAT ARE GRANTED BY THE STATE OF TEXAS. AND THAT WAS SIMILAR TO, AS YOU SAID, OTHER, OTHER CHARTERS THAT, UH, THAT WE REFERENCED. VERY GENERIC. RIGHT? Y'ALL HAD REQUESTED AS A COMMITTEE THAT THERE BE SOME REFERENCE TO GDC OR THE COMP PLANS. WE HAVE ADDED THAT FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. BUT, UH, STAFF WOULD BE, I CAN AGREE WITH THAT. 'CAUSE I THINK THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, WE'RE LOOKING AT ANOTHER GO AROUND OF THE GDC MAY BE BROKEN INTO LIKE RAW, IT'S GOT FORM-BASED CODE, [00:25:01] UH, SEPARATE FROM A GENERAL ZONING ORDINANCE. AND SO THERE MAY BE TWO OR THREE DOCUMENTS AND THE REFERENCE ONE COULD BE LEGALLY HANDCUFFING. Y'ALL, I HAVE A, YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BECAUSE IT'S REALLY CALLED ENVISION GARLAND PLAN. WOULD THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORDING IN THE CHARTER? ENVISION GARLAND IS A BRANDING. IT'S NOT THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENT IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. IT DEPENDS HOW THE ADOPTION ORDINANCE FOR ENVISION GARLAND WAS WRITTEN UP. IF IT WAS WRITTEN UP AS A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BY LEGAL STAFF, WERE COVERED. IF NOT, WE'VE BEEN IN VIOLATION OF EVERYTHING FOR THE PAST EIGHT YEARS. AND THE NEW ONE SAYS INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO. SO THAT RIGHT. OKAY. THAT COVERS THIS. MIKE, YOU'D HAD QUESTIONS ON THIS AS THIS LOOK GOOD TO YOU? YEAH. OKAY. UM, THERE WAS ONE QUESTION THAT MAY NOT BE QUITE RELATED TO THIS, BUT THAT NEEDS THINKING OF, AND THESE ARE CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD BACK TO NEIL'S TIME, UH, MAYBE EVEN YOUR TIME ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THERE'S A DEBATE WHETHER WHEN WE SAY DO A RESIDENTIAL ZONING AND SOMETHING THAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SAYS IT'S RETAIL, WE JUST, YOU KNOW, DO STUFF LIKE THAT. BUT WE DON'T PASS ANY KIND OF ORDINANCE CHANGING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SIMULTANEOUSLY. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING LEGAL AND THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT NEED TO LOOK AT IS LEGALLY HOW DO WE STAND WHEN WE PASS SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN? UH, 'CAUSE SOMETIMES SOME CITIES SAY, YEAH, YOU GOT, WE DO DUAL ORDINANCES. OTHERS SAY, NAH, WHO CARES? MM-HMM. . SO WE'VE NEVER DONE DUAL ORDINANCES. WE'VE ALWAYS ONLY CHANGED THE ZONING NOW AND WE UPDATE THE CONFERENCE. YEAH. NEIL AND I USED TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS, YOU KNOW, DO WE AND HE WANTED TO DO IT DUAL ORDINANCE. I DON'T THINK IT EVER GOT THERE. NO, NEVER DID. I THINK HE DID. WANTED TO DO THAT. YEAH. SO THAT, THAT'S MORE OF A CHART, Y'ALL, ESPECIALLY WHEN WRITE UP THE NEW, UH, DEAL. BUT ONE MORE KIND OF OFF THE WALL QUESTION AND, AND SINCE WE'RE SAYING MADE IN ACCORDANCE WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THIS LOCKS US IN ONE MORE KIND OF OFF THE WALL QUESTION. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AUTHORITY AND POWER? AUTHORITY AND WHAT? AND POWER, POWER POWER CAN BE DELEGATED. I THINK AUTHORITY CAN'T. WHAT UH, WHAT'S THE LEGAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN POWER AND AUTHORITY? OR MAYBE IT'S THE REVERSE. UH, , THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. UM, THERE ARE, THERE IS AUTHORITY. AND SEE, I THINK, I THINK IT'S THE OTHER WAY, UM, UH, MR. MR. SMITH IS THAT IT'S THAT AUTHORITY CAN BE DELEGATED, BUT POWER CANNOT. SUCH AS, UM, THE CITY HAS THE POWER OF IMMINENT DOMAIN. UM, TEXAS LAW HAS, AND THE COURTS HAVE BEEN EXCEPTIONALLY CLEAR THAT WHILE YOU CAN DELEGATE WHO IS GOING TO FILE THE LAWSUIT ON YOUR BEHALF, WE, YOU KNOW, AUTHORIZE THE CITY ATTORNEY TO FILE THE LAWSUIT ON OUR BEHALF. THE CITY ITSELF CANNOT DELEGATE ITS POWER OF IMMINENT DOMAIN TO ANOTHER BODY. IT MUST BE THE COUNCIL THAT MAKES THE DECISION THAT IMMINENT DOMAIN IS NECESSARY AND IS THEREFORE AUTHORIZED. OH, SORRY, THAT MIGHT'VE BEEN A LITTLE LONGER EXPLANATION THAN YOU WANTED, BUT CLEAR. CLEAR. YOU'RE PAID BY THE WORDS. SO THAT'S GOOD. , DON'T SAY THAT. YOU'LL NEVER GET SOMETHING. YOU THINK THIS IS LONG. THAT'S WHERE THAT 35 YEARS COMES IN, RIGHT. WITH THAT, UH, QUESTION. I'LL SAY. SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF, 'CAUSE IT SAYS INCLUDED BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE DARK GARLAND DEVELOPMENT CODE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. DO WE JUST WANT TO PUT THAT LANGUAGE IN TO BE EVEN CLEARER THAT SAYS, OR OTHER STATUTES OR POWERS GRANTED TO GO ALONG WITH WHAT PLAN COMMISSION WAS TALKING ABOUT? OR DO WE FEEL THAT THAT INCLUDED BUT NOT LIMITED WOULD COVER ANY CHANGE IN THE DOCUMENTS AS FAR AS WELL AS IT'S DRAFTED NOW? IS THAT AS THE CITY WOULD PASS ANYTHING LIKE THE GDC OR OTHER DOCUMENTS, IT MUST BE MADE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO THAT IS MORE LOCKED DOWN THAN Y'ALL ARE CURRENTLY DISCUSSING. OKAY. THEN I THINK, I THINK WE WANT TO BROADEN THAT ENOUGH SO THAT WE DON'T HANDCUFF THAT IT'S ALWAYS THAT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SO THAT IN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO IF IT CHANGES, IF IT CHANGES, THAT THE CHARTER WOULD STILL APPLY TO WHATEVER A NEW DOCUMENT ADOPTED WOULD BE. UM, JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, A RECOMMENDATION COULD BE TAKE OUT, UM, IN INSTEAD OF SHELBY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. UM, IT COULD BE SHELBY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE AUTHORITY AND POWERS REFERENCED HERE, YOU KNOW, GRANTED [00:30:01] TO THE CITY REFERENCED HEREIN, WHICH WOULD THEN REFERENCE THE ABOVE SENTENCE, WHICH IS ANYTHING THE STATE OF TEXAS GIVES YOU OR YOU HAVE UNDER THE POWERS OF BEING A HOME RULE MUNICIPALITY. YOU CAN DO I WAS SAYING I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. YEAH. IT'S REQUIRED. I'D RATHER BE YEAH. AND THAT WOULD OPEN IT UP TOO, BECAUSE I WAS THANK YOU, UH, THAT WE, UH, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS A STATE MANDATED MM-HMM. THING THAT WE DO PRODUCT. YEAH. SO BY YOUR WORDING IT, IT'S INFERRED, BUT RIGHT. AND INCLUDED BY GENERAL REFERENCE, NOT BY SPECIFIC REFERENCE . AND THEY MAY HAVE NEGATE THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, MAY NEGATE THE NEED TO CHANGE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BECAUSE WE'RE NOT CITING IT IN PARTICULAR. THAT MAKES SENSE. I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY, I ONLY PLAY ONE ON TV. RIGHT. YEAH. YOU'VE JUST BEEN AROUND THEM TOO LONG. . YEP. ALL RIGHTY. UM, SO HOW DO WE WANNA DO THIS? I'LL SAY, CAN WE SEND IT BACK TO SEE THE FINAL WORDING ON IT ONE MORE TIME? YES, THAT'S FINE. WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT AND BRING IT BACK AT YOUR NEXT MEETING. BUT HOW DO WE WANT IT WORDED? POSSIBLY I'LL SAY LIKE, YOU, LIKE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT TREY. YES. ALRIGHT, THAT'S UP TO Y'ALL. THAT WAS JUST MY RECOMMENDATION OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. REFERENCE STATE GENERAL REFERENCE INSTEAD OF YEAH. GENERAL REFERENCE. YEAH. I'LL SAY THAT'S MY RECOMMENDATION THAT WE GO WITH, YOU KNOW, THE LEGAL WAY HE SAID IT INSTEAD OF THE WAY I TRY. ANOTHER THING I MAY DO. 'CAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STATE'S GONNA DO IN TWO YEARS FROM NOW, FOUR YEARS FROM NOW, SIX YEARS FROM NOW. YEAH. YOU COME BACK TOGETHER. NOTHING GOOD. DEPENDS UPON WHO'S ELECTED HERE, WHAT IDIOTS ARE ELECTED. AFFIRM. I DIDN'T SAY THAT, DID I? NOPE. OKAY, COOL. UH, ALL IN FAVOR OF, UH, TAKING ANOTHER RUN AT IT. AYE. THANK YOU. OKAY. SORRY. WE MISSED THE MOTION AND THE SECOND ON THAT ONE. OH, IT'S A MOTION. I DON'T KNOW IF GOT, WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A MOTION OR SECOND. I, RIGHT. IT COULD JUST BE DIRECTION GIVEN BY THE COMMITTEE. RIGHT. MAKING SURE EVERYBODY WAS OKAY. OKAY. WE'LL JUST, I'M JUDSON REX. I'M GIVING THE DIRECTION. DIRECTION. . ALL RIGHTY. ARE WE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM? CONSIDER CHANGES FOR ARTICLE 11, SECTION ONE LATER TO THE COMPOSITION OF A PLAN COMMISSION. THIS IS NEW. THIS IS MY DOING. OKAY. OH MY GOD. I KEPT LOOKING AT IT. I'M LIKE, I DO NOT KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM. YEAH. I WAS JUST DOING THE SAME THING. I DON'T REMEMBER THIS CONVERSATION. I DIDN'T WANNA TELL ANYBODY. I WAS LIKE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER. THIS IS SOMETHING, UH, THAT CAME UP A YEAR OR SO AGO AND WE DIDN'T HAVE A QUORUM AT THE PLAN COMMISSION. AND IT JUST SO HAPPENED LIKE THIS ROUND, WE HAD A MEETING THE FOLLOWING WEEK, EVERYTHING WAS GOOD. AND GAIL, AFTER YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'VE HAD TROUBLES WITH YOUR COMMITTEE GETTING A QUORUM, THIS IS A PROPOSAL TO DO AL HAVE SOME ALTERNATES. THERE'S SOME BENEFITS, UH, OF THIS AND THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE CAN'T MAKE IT. YOU BRING AN ALTERNATE IN, YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY IN TRAINING. UH, TO ME IT ALSO EXPANDS OUR POOL OF POTENTIAL PEOPLE WHO SERVE IN OTHER POSITIONS. UH, AND SO I THINK IT JUST A DECENT THING. AND PART OF WHAT BROUGHT IT TO MIND IS, UH, I READ THE RICHARDSON, UM, CHARTER WHEN REVIEWING FOR THIS AND THEY HAD IT. AND THEN I'VE GOT A CASE IN ROULETTE AND I NOTICED THAT THEY HAVE IT. SO I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH ON CITIES AROUND, AND FOUR OUT OF THE 12 CITIES HAVE, HAVE THEM. UH, MOST OF THEM ONLY HAVE TWO. AND THESE WOULD BE PEOPLE APPOINTED BY THE COUNCIL. NOT ANY PARTICULAR DISTRICT. THEY WOULD BE AT LARGE. SO HOW DOES THAT WORK? HOW DOES THAT WORK FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE STATE, STATE STATUTE HAVING TO REPRESENT, YOU KNOW, THE DISTRICT OR BE, OR, OR DO WE ONLY REQUIRE BEING THE RESIDENT OF THE, OF THE DISTRICT IN THE CITY OF GARLAND TO REPRESENT, TO BE ABLE TO VOTE IN THE PLAN COMMISSION ON THAT? WHAT, UH, THE, BECAUSE THE PLAN COMMISSIONER HAS TO BE FROM THE DISTRICT IN WHICH THEY THAT'S CORRECT. CORRECT. THE MAYOR APPOINT EXCEPT MAYOR, WHICH IS EXCEPT THE MAYOR, OR, YEAH. AND SO HOW, AND SO WITH ESSENCE, THE ALTERNATES BE THE MAYOR'S APPOINTEE OR TECHNICALLY THE MAYOR'S APPOINTMENTS? WELL, UH, TECH, I MEAN IT'S, IT WOULD BE BEING DRAFTED ANEW. UM, GIVEN THE SITUATION THAT WE'VE GOT WHERE OUR PLAN COMMISSION IS SET OUT IN THE CHARTER. UM, THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHER CITIES OUT THERE THAT DON'T SET OUT THE COMPOSITION OF THEIR PLAN COMMISSION IN THE CHARTER. IT'S JUST THAT COUNCIL SHALL DECIDE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND THEN COUNCIL CAN CHANGE IT AS NECESSARY. BECAUSE OURS IS SO SPECIFIC. IF WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE COMPOSITION, WE WOULD THEREFORE NEED TO CHANGE THE CHARTER PROVISION. SO WE WOULD BE DRAFTING THAT ANEW. SO IF Y'ALL DECIDED TO RECOMMEND LANGUAGE THAT THERE'RE TO BE, YOU KNOW, SELECTED AT LARGE, IT WOULD BE LIKE [00:35:01] A MAYORAL APPOINTMENT. BUT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY, IT WOULDN'T BE CALLED A MAYORAL APPOINTMENT. BUT YES, YOU COULD MAKE THEM AT LARGE IF THAT'S WHAT YOU DECIDED TO DO. NOW THE DOWNSIDE IS, WOULD COUNCIL PEOPLE START PLAYING, OH, I WANT A PERSON FROM MY DISTRICT IN THERE. MM-HMM. WOULD THEY BE FIGHTING OVER THAT? SO THERE ARE SOME DOWNSIDES THAT, I'LL LET Y'ALL POINT OUT MORE OF THOSE QUESTION. I THINK THAT, THAT WE NEED TO STAY WITH THE PLAN COMMISSION MEMBER FROM A PARTICULAR DISTRICT. WE HAVE EIGHT DISTRICTS. YOU'RE AGAINST THE ALTERNATES IN ESSENCE? HUH? ARE YOU AGAINST THE ALTERNATES? NO, NO, I'M NOT AGAINST THE ALTERNATES. OKAY. I'M JUST ASKING. I I JUST, I HEARD WHAT TREY WAS SAYING. IT SOUNDED LIKE HE WAS PERHAPS SUGGESTING THAT ALL THE PLAN COMMISSIONERS COULD BE AT WILL. I NO, NO, NO. ONLY THE ALTERNATES. YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT ONE, RIGHT? JUST I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT THE ALTERNATE. YEAH. SO I APOLOGIZE IF I WASN'T CLEAR. OKAY. I THEN I DON'T DISAGREE. I, I AGREE. THE, THE ALTERNATES SHOULD BE FROM ANY, UH, DISTRICT AND APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR, BUT APPROVED BY THE ENTIRE COUNCIL. AND, AND WE'D HAVE TO CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, JUST TWO YEAR TERMS, MAYBE NO AUTOMATIC RENEWAL OR A MAXIMUM OF TWO, TWO YEAR TERMS AS AN ALTERNATE OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. I, I'M JUST TOSSING OUT THE IDEA. 'CAUSE IT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE FROM TIME TO TIME. YEAH, I, THAT'S, THAT'S A QUESTION I HAVE IN, IN THE YEARS YOU'VE SERVED AS THE, UH, ON THE PLAN COMMISSION, HOW MANY TIMES HAS ISSUE THIS ISSUE COME UP? UH, ONCE, YEAH. HOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU SERVED? I'M IN MY 18TH YEAR. . OKAY. OKAY. I'VE BEEN THERE SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIMES AND I DON'T RECALL. OKAY. SO WE'VE HAD TO SCRAMBLE A NUMBER OF TIMES TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE SHOW UP. IF I MAY, WE PULLED AN ATTENDANCE REPORT FROM THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE. OKAY, GOOD. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. THE REPORT GOES BACK FOUR YEARS AND WE'VE HAD FOUR INSTANCES OF THE P AND Z BOARD NOT BEING ABLE TO MEET DUE TO A QUORUM. AND HOW MANY YEARS? APPROXIMATELY HOW MANY YEARS? FILL FOUR YEARS. FOUR. IN, IN PLANT PLANNING AND ZONING, CORRECT. COMMISSION. WHERE YOU BEEN? WELL, I DON'T REMEMBER THAT AT ALL. YOU PROBABLY WEREN'T THERE, SCOTT. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO WAS ABSENT. YEAH, . OH, NO, WE, WE HAVEN'T CANCELED FOUR MEETINGS THAT I KNOW. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT EITHER. I WAS GONNA SAY, I DON'T, TRACY WOULD HAVE NEVER SEEN IT. NEVER, NEVER SAW A COUPLE DURING, UM, COVID. OH, WELL, OH, OH, I KNOW. SOME HAVE BEEN CANCELED. YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. MAYBE ONE OF 'EM WERE CANCELED AND THERE WAS ONLY A PLA OR TWO. SO THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME. I HAVE A QUESTION. IF, IF, IF, IF WE WERE TO IMPLEMENT ALTERNATES, WHAT WOULD BE THEIR ACTUAL, WOULD THEY BE NON-VOTING UNLESS YOU'RE SHORT OF QUORUM AND THEY JUST HANG OUT? OR WHAT'S THEIR ROLE THERE? WELL, YEAH, THE EASIEST WAY IS IF SOMEBODY'S GONE, THAT PERSON WOULD SIT IN AND GET THE EXPERIENCE. IT COULD BE WORDED TO WHERE IF A QUORUM CAN'T BE REACHED, THEN AN ALTERNATE IS CALLED. AND MAYBE SOME OF THAT GOES BACK TO POLICY. MAYBE THAT'S UNDER, UH, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, ITS OWN INTERNAL POLICY, HOW THEY WANT TO HANDLE THAT. BUT I, I KIND OF THINK ALSO AS A TRAINING GROUND. SO IF, UH, AND WE OFTEN HAVE PEOPLE, WELL, SEVEN OR EIGHT ONLY, AND THEN WE COULD HAVE 'EM BOTH IN ONE OR BOTH OF THEM IN, AND THEY COULD GET THAT, UH, HANDS-ON EXPERIENCE. YOU REALLY NEED IT AS A TRADING GROUND THOUGH, ISN'T IT? OPEN MEETINGS? PARDON? ARE THE MEETINGS OPEN? YEAH. SO YOU DON'T REALLY NEED A TRAINING SET UP THERE. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SITTING UP THERE, HEARING IT AND LISTENING TO IT. THAT MEANS THERE. YEAH. SO YEAH, I, I BRING UP THE OPTION. THAT'S ALL I'M DOING. AND I CAN SEE THIS ONE IS MIXED . I'LL SAY THIS IS ONE. I'M NOT SURE HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT. YEAH. I CAN SEE THE BENEFIT, BUT IT HASN'T BEEN NECESSARY VERY OFTEN. I'M KIND OF SURPRISED BY THE FOUR TIMES AND I KNOW MEETINGS HAVE BEEN CANCELED. BUT COVID I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT THERE. YEAH. RIGHT. AND, AND CHAIR, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WHILE WE HAVE AN ATTENDANCE POLICY THAT HASN'T ALWAYS BEEN ENFORCED TO THE STRICT STRICTEST STANDARDS, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU MISS SO MANY MEETINGS, YOU SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF REMOVED FROM YOUR SEAT BECAUSE YOU MISS SO MANY. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ENFORCEFUL OF THAT. AND IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DO, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN, I THINK THERE'S CRANK DOWN ON, AS IT WERE, A QUARTERLY REPORT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO THE CITY COUNCIL IF I'M CORRECT. AND THEN IF AN INDIVIDUAL COUNCIL PERSON SEES AN ISSUE, YEAH. IT'S UP TO THEM. WELL, AND WE WOULD CERTAINLY WELCOME, YOU KNOW, THE CHAIRS OF ANY COMMITTEES OR COMMISSIONS OUT THERE THAT IF YOU'RE SEEING A, A PROBLEM, I MEAN, PLEASE BRING IT UP TO, TO THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE SO THAT WE CAN, TO ME IT'S UP TO THE CHAIRMAN TO GO TO THAT COUNCILMAN AND SAY, YOU GOT A PROBLEM. [00:40:01] OH, I THINK THIS SHOULD BE EXPLORED SOME MORE. AND PERHAPS HAVE THE, UH, ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, MAYBE IF WE STAY WITH TWO, UH, TWO POSITIONS, CLARIFIED A LITTLE MORE WHAT THEY'RE INVOLVED, HOW THEY'RE INVOLVED AND WHAT WHATNOT. I DON'T KNOW. I JUST, I THINK IT'S A THIS BE GOOD IDEA. IT JUST NEEDS FURTHER CLARIFICATION. COULD THIS BE SET UP AND DO WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IN THE CHARTER? YOU'RE SAYING WITH, WITH THE CHARTER THE WAY IT IS, WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IT IN THE CHARTER, COULD IT BE SET UP WITH THE O OPTION OR POSSIBILITY OF TWO ALTERNATES BEING APPOINTED AND THEN LEAVE IT UP TO COUNCIL POLICY? THE PROBLEM THERE IS THAT SO MUCH OF IT'S ALREADY DICTATED BECAUSE OF THE NINE SPOTS THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE. THAT IF WE WERE TO JUST LEAVE IT OPEN AND THEN LEAVE THE REST OF THE POLICY, IT COULD GET MESSY. IT COULD GET MESSY. RIGHT. YEAH. AND, AND WHAT HE IS REFERRING TO IS LIKE THE FOUR CITIES THAT HAVE ALTERNATES. TWO HAVE SPECIFIC VERBIAGE, WHICH WAS ON THE LAST PAGE. TWO, THERE WAS NO MENTION BECAUSE IT'S HANDLED BY POLICY. MM-HMM. . I I THOUGHT I WAS MISSING SOMETHING. BUT YOU LOOKED AND I DIDN'T OKAY. I'M, I'M HEARING MIXED, UH, OPINIONS ON THIS. IS THIS SOMETHING Y'ALL WANNA PASS ON? QUICK QUESTION. YEAH. UM, AND I KNOW WE'RE SPECIFYING PLAN COMMISSION HERE, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY QUASI-JUDICIAL. YEAH, I, I WOULD EXTEND IT ALL QUASI JUDICIAL BECAUSE, SO PROPERTY STANDARDS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TOO. MM-HMM. . YEAH. HOW ARE YOUR QUORUMS LOOK? BECAUSE MY OPINION IS WE'RE IN CUSTOMER SERVICE. YEAH. EVEN AT THE PLAN COMMISSION, THE APPLICANTS ARE OUR CUSTOMERS. THE CITIZENS ARE OUR CUSTOMERS. AND I HATE, YOU KNOW, PUTTING THEM OFF FOR ANY REASON. AT THE PROB WITH THE LIFTING OF THE SHOT CLOCK, IT MAY NOT BE AS OF PRIME IMPORTANCE. IF WE STILL HAD THE SHOT CLOCK, I WOULD PUSH A WHOLE LOT HARDER FOR THIS PROVISION. YEAH. BUT WE DO HAVE APPLICANTS COMING IN FROM OUTTA STATE TO ATTEND THESE MEETINGS AND WE NEED TO BE RESPECTFUL. MM-HMM. , WHAT IS THE CITY'S ATTENDANCE POLICY FOR PEOPLE ON COMMITTEES? I THINK YOU'RE ALLOWED TO MISS TWO MEETINGS A YEAR. TWO, I THINK, I DON'T KNOW. I WAS THINKING OF THERE WAS LIKE A THREE. IS IT THREE? I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE. SOME QUANTITY EACH YEAR THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO MESS WITHOUT. AND I THINK THEY DO SEND LIKE A REPORT TO COUNCIL THAT'S LIKE IN THIS, WE USUALLY GET IT ANNUALLY, QUARTERLY, THIS SIX MONTHS. YEAH. WELL, PROPERTY STANDARDS, WE DON'T HAVE A SET TIME. WE JUST GET NOTIFIED SAYING, UM, WHEN THERE'S, WHENEVER THERE ARE CASES. SO SOMETIMES WE MEET EVERY THREE MONTHS AND SOMETIMES ONE TIME IT WENT FIVE MONTHS. MM-HMM. . YEAH. AND OF COURSE BEING SICK IS AN EXCUSED ABSENCE. MM-HMM. , YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING UNEXCUSED ABSENCE. YEAH. I PULLED A GOOD ONE OUT FOR US, DIDN'T I? YOU DID. YOU DID. YEAH. I I, I'D LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, THINK ABOUT IT AND MAYBE AT THE NEXT MEETING HAVE MORE DISCUSSION. THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WAS THINKING. MAYBE HAVE A LITTLE MORE CLARIFICATION FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT. WELL, WELL YOU, YOU GOT THESE SHEETS. THIS IS, THIS IS JUST MY HOMEWORK AND YEAH, I UNDERSTAND. THAT'S GREAT. I HAD TO DO A SPREADSHEET, YOU KNOW, LIKE B JS. THE MASTER TAUGHT ME TO DO SPREADSHEET . THERE'S NOT ENOUGH COLOR. AND ALTHOUGH I DIDN'T PUT THE PRETTY LINES IN BOXES THING GOING ON, I'VE NEVER BURNT THANKSGIVING DINNER THANKS TO MY SPREADSHEET USE. YEAH. IT'S, THAT'S CRAZY. WELL TESTED . BUT, UH, YEAH, THERE ARE PLUSES AND MINUSES OF IT AND WE REALLY HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON THE POSSIBILITY OF IT BEING ABUSED POLITICALLY. YEAH. UM, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO THE WEEDS, YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY NOT ANY TWO, UH, PEOPLE CAN COME FROM THE SAME DISTRICT AND STUFF LIKE THAT. 'CAUSE SOMEBODY WOULD FIGHT TO DO THAT. AND THEY, AND THEY CAN ONLY BE AN ALTERNATE FOR HOW MANY TERMS, IF YOU WILL. YEAH. YEAH. I WOULD LIMIT THAT. GO AHEAD. IS ANOTHER PLAN COMMISSION IS SPECIFIED BY THE CHARTER OR THE OTHER QUASI JUDICIALS SPECIFIED BY THE CHARTER? I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK THEY WERE BY STATE LAW. STATE LAW. STATE LAW. OKAY. I JUST WONDERED IF THAT GAVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS A SPECIFIC NEED. AND, AND PART OF WHAT MAKES THAT GROUP SO SPECIFIC IS BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF A SET SCHEDULE. MM-HMM. IT'S AN AS NEEDED SCHEDULE. WHICH IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE ESTABLISHED BY ORDINANCE AND NOT BY CHARTER, THEN WE, THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED. MM-HMM. WELL IN SOME OF THESE COMMISSIONS, LIKE THE GARLAND YOUTH COUNCIL, I MEAN, DO WE REALLY WANNA, THAT'S NOT A QUASI-JUDICIAL ONE. I DON'T NO, BUT I MEAN, DO WE REALLY WANNA, [00:45:01] I'M THINKING JUST QUASI-JUDICIAL, JUST OKAY. WANT TO HAVE A YEAH. YEAH. OR THEY HAVE, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A POWER. YEAH. OKAY. WHICH MAY RULE OUT THE PLANT. I'LL SAY. SO , I'LL SAY, SO THE OPPOSITE COULD BE, BECAUSE I THINK I HEARD SOME OF THESE OTHER CITIES, THE CHARTER DOESN'T SPECIFY, DOESN'T EVEN TALK ABOUT THE PLAN. LAND COMMISSION. MM-HMM. . THE, THE, IT, IT ESTABLISHES ONE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT, UH, SUPPLE DEFINE ESTABLISH IT. BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT. IT DOESN'T SAY MEMBERS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IF I'M CORRECT. AND THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT MORE GENERAL. NOT THAT I'M, YEAH. I'M, I'M NOT REALLY READY TO JUMP IN BOTH THESE I DON'T THINK THE COUNCIL WOULD BE. YEAH. I THINK WE TO MAINTAIN THE DISTRICT STRUCTURE. OH YEAH. AND IF WE GIVE 'EM A CHANCE TO MONKEY WITH THAT, THEIR POLICY, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING. YEAH. MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD MOVE THAT WE TABLE THIS UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING. YEAH. IF Y'ALL WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT. YOU KNOW, JUST READ THESE LAST FEW PAGES AND GIVE IT SOME THOUGHT. AND, AND HAVE THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THIS ONE MANIPULATE IT. UH, JUSTICE SCALES WORKING ON IT OF THE GOOD AND THE BAD. AND WHERE ENDS UP AFTER HEARING WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. YEAH, EXACTLY. OKAY. UH, MR. ROSE, CAN YOU GIMME MORE CLARIFICATION AS TO WHAT IT IS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE? YOU, I WAS JUST SAYING YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO ALL THE CONVERSATION WE HAD REGARDING THIS DOCUMENT OR THIS ITEM, AND THEN COME UP WITH SOME VERBIAGE THAT WILL COVER THAT, UH, DISCUSSION. SO IT IT, WHEN WE READ IT, OH YEAH, THAT'S IT. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW. WHAT DID SHE SAY? I CAN'T REMEMBER. WHAT DID HE SAY? I CAN'T REMEMBER. I DON'T EXACT WORDS. AND ARE THEY LEGAL OR OTHERWISE? I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE, DID WE GIVE ENOUGH OF A DIRECTION, I THINK, OR DID WE JUST WELL, THAT'S WHAT HE'S ASKING FOR. HE'S ASKING BUNCH OF QUESTIONS. I WAS GONNA SAY, I KIND OF WANTED THINK I, I THOUGHT WE WERE THINKING ABOUT IT. 'CAUSE WELL, YOU HAVE ANY KIND OF CONSENSUS TO GIVE HIM DIRECTION. THAT'S WHAT I WAS KIND OF THINKING. YEAH. I, I AGREE. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I SAY LISTEN TO EVERYTHING WE SAID AS A, AS A, AS A GROUP. AND THEN COME UP WITH VERBIAGE THAT COVERS BASICALLY WHAT WE SAID. AND THERE'S NOTHING TO PREVENT. YOU CAN PUTTING YOUR IDEAS IN AN EMAIL AND SENDING IT DIRECTLY TO THEM AND THEN HE CAN UH, DO ANY BACKGROUND RESEARCH ON YOUR IDEAS THAT HELP AT ALL. NOT REALLY. I THINK BURBAGE FOR ME WOULD WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING IF WE ACTUALLY GIVE DIRECTION. DIRECTION, YEAH. DIRECT DIRECTION. RIGHT? NO. IF, IF Y'ALL DO YOU KNOW, IF Y'ALL PONDER THIS OVER THE NEXT, UH, TWO WEEKS, 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT GONNA MEET NEXT WEEK FOR THANKSGIVING, Y'ALL DECIDED TO POSTPONE THAT OR, YOU KNOW, TO CANCEL THAT MEETING. BUT IF Y'ALL HAVE RESEARCH THAT YOU'VE DONE OR IDEAS THAT YOU WANNA PUT OUT, IF YOU WILL SEND IT TO THAT CHARTER REVIEW EMAIL THAT WE GAVE YOU, WE ARE HAPPY TO PUT IT IN THE PACKET FOR YOUR NEXT MEETING SO THAT EVERYBODY WILL HAVE IT. IF THE CHAIRMAN APPROVES IN IT, HE'LL . WHOA. LET'S REPLACE HIM. AC. ACTUALLY ANY TWO OF YOU, IF YOU PUT THAT ON THE AGENDA, IT DOESN'T MATTER. OKAY. LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS ONE. OKAY. I DIDN'T REALIZE YOU SAID THERE'S NO MEETING NEXT WEEK, CORRECT? YEAH. WE, WE'D, UH, ADJOURN THAT MEETING FOR THANKSGIVING. YEAH, I HAVE EXTENDED FAMILY COMING IN. CAN WE HAVE A MEETING NEXT WEEK? ? PREFERABLY ON THURSDAY AFTERNOON. WE NEED A SUBCOMMITTEE IF YOU'D LIKE. I THOUGHT YOU LIKED YOUR EXTENDED FAMILY. I DO NOT, SIR. OH, IT'S, NO, IT'S YOUR WIFE'S FAMILY. NO, IT'S MINE. UH, HERS IS GREAT. OH, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. BUT'S YOUR EXTENDED FAMILY. I GOTCHA. . YES. SPEAKING OF MEETINGS AND TIME, LET'S SEE, WE'LL HAVE A COUPLE MEETINGS AT LEAST IN THE BEGINNING OF DECEMBER. MM-HMM. . AND WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO WRAP EVERYTHING UP AND THEN EITHER GET TO COUNCIL LATER IN DECEMBER OR FIRST THING IN JANUARY THAT SHOULD MEET THEIR SCHEDULE. RIGHT. YOU WERE, Y'ALL WERE REQUESTED TO PRESENT BACK IN JANUARY. SO IF WE HAPPEN TO WRAP THIS UP LASTED NOVEMBER, BEGINNING OF DECEMBER, AND THEN Y'ALL PRESENT IN DECEMBER, ALL THE BETTER. IF NOT, JANUARY'S FINE FOR THE COUNCIL, UH, CALENDAR. BUT WE'RE ON A ROLL AND I THINK I THREW THE ONLY HICCUP, SO I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT. . WELL, I'M, YOU JUST, WELL, I'D LIKE TO, UH, CAN HAVE AN NOT BEEN CONSIDERED. OKAY. YEAH, THAT'S, I JUST THOUGHT I WAS, I WAS GOING THROUGH THE, UH, THROUGH THE CODE COMPLETELY AGAIN, UH, IF WE CAN, IF I CAN, EXCUSE ME. YEAH, DON'T GET AHEAD. THE ONLY THING, LET'S WAIT, UH, TO DISCUSSION OF PUBLICATION PROCEDURE AND COST. AND I AS GENERAL ADD A NEW AGENDA ITEM. ANY, ANY THOUGHTS FOR THE FUTURE? SO, DISCUSSION OF PUBLIC PUBLICATION, PROCEDURE AND COST. AND I THINK [00:50:01] THAT WAS AN EFFORT TO DETERMINE IF WE, UH, TAKE VERBIAGE IN INDIVIDUAL DEALS AND HAVE VOTES ON 'EM. SO DO WE HAVE A REPORT ON THAT? YEAH. YES, SIR. SO WE HAD, UH, AT THE, IN THE 2018, UH, ELECTION, THERE WERE 36 ITEMS THAT WERE POSTED. HOWEVER, THOSE WERE ABLE TO BE, UH, SOMEWHAT CONSOLIDATED. AND THIS, UH, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE CAN DISCUSS HOW THOSE ITEMS CAN NO LONGER BE, UH, UH, CONSOLIDATED. BUT TO, TO SHOW COSTS THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, UH, THAT WERE, THAT WERE PRESENT IN 2018. UH, IT LOOKS LIKE THE ADVERTISING COSTS THAT ARE REQUIRED IN THE LOCAL NEWSPAPER, UH, WAS $48,000. AND THE, UH, COST TO ACTUALLY DO THE ELECTION WITH DALLAS COUNTY WAS 108,000, WHICH BROUGHT OUR TOTAL TO $156,000. WE ESTIMATED AN ADDITIONAL 25% BASED ON CURRENT COSTS. AND SO, UH, BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE NOW, AND SO WE, WE HAVE AN ESTIMATION OF ABOUT 195,000. OKAY. BASED ON IS THERE ANY EXTRA COST FOR ANY ADDITIONAL SINGLE ITEM? I'M SORRY. IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL COST FOR ANY SINGLE ITEM OR IT'S ALL JUST DONE IN ONE PACKAGE? IT'S ALL UNDER ONE PACKAGE. THERE WILL BE OTHER ELECTIONS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE WITHIN THE COUNTY. SO THIS WOULD BE OUR PORTION OF WHAT WE'RE HAVING TO FUND THE COUNTY. AND THEN WE'RE ESTIMATING BASED ON WHAT, UH, WE FIGURE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WE HAVE NOW, UH, WILL BE WITHIN THE LEGAL, WE CAN DO WHATEVER. RIGHT. THE ADDITIONAL COST WOULD COME IN THE NEWSPAPER NOTIFICATIONS BECAUSE IS THAT THE ELECTION COST IS WHAT? THE ELECTION COST IS AN EXTRA LINE OR TWO. AND WELL, AND IT UNFORTUNATELY THEY CHANGED THE LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE IN THE TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE BETWEEN THE LAST TIME WE DID THIS AND THE, AND NOW. AND SO WHEREAS IT USED TO BE YOU COULD KIND OF JUST GIVE A SUMMARY IN THE PAPER AND REALLY SHORTEN IT TO CUT DOWN YOUR ADVERTISING DOLLARS. NOW IT IS SPECIFICALLY THAT WE HAVE TO INCLUDE A SUBSTANTIAL COPY OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT ITSELF, NOT JUST A SUMMARY OF WHAT IT IS. AND WE HAVE TO INCLUDE A STATEMENT OF THE ANTICIPATED FINANCIAL IMPACT TO THE CITY BECAUSE OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT. AND SO ALL OF THAT HAS TO GO IN THE PAPER, WHICH WE WOULD THEN HAVE TO PAY FOR. SO YOU'RE TALKING COLUMN INTEREST THEN, RIGHT? YEAH. MM-HMM. . SO NEWSPAPER, LOBBY WAS IN WHICH PAPER? STRONG WITH THIS GIVEN. SO, UH, ONE OF THE REASONS Y'ALL ASKED ABOUT THIS, WHERE THERE WERE SEVERAL THINGS WERE THAT WERE JUST OLD LANGUAGE OR A SMALL, OH, WELL WE COULD UPDATE THIS WORD TO THAT. AND YOU WANTED TO CONSIDER WHAT THE COST WOULD BE. AND UNFORTUNATELY EVEN TO DO THAT KIND OF STUFF, THE COST WOULD BE PRETTY HIGH ON THE PUBLICATION SIDE. SO, 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS, IS KIND OF WHAT PHIL WAS SAYING ABOUT IF WE GO FORWARD WITH THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE HEARD Y'ALL SAY AND THAT WE MIGHT DO IT WOULD BE AROUND THAT. BUT IF WE START DOING A WHOLE BUNCH MORE CHANGES, WELL MAYBE THE ELECTION COST WOULDN'T BE QUITE, YOU KNOW, WOULDN'T CHANGE DRASTICALLY. THE PUBLICATION COST. SURE WOULD. OKAY. SO COULD I START A FACEBOOK PAGE CALLED THE OFFICIAL GARLAND NEWSPAPER AND QUOTE THAT INSTEAD? AND I WAS GONNA ASK THAT QUESTION. NEWSPAPER GENERALLY CIRCULATED. IS THERE BOUNDARIES? IS THERE A DIGITAL OPTION YET? HAS THE STATE REACHED THE STATE HAS NOT REACHED THAT POINT. GOT THAT POINT YET. OKAY. RIGHT, BECAUSE WE FOUND THEY STILL WANT IT IN CIRCULATION IN THE AREA. NO, NOBODY REACHED, WE CAN DROP LEAFLETS OUT OF AN AIRPLANE. YOU PRINT IT YOURSELF AND MAIL IT TO OH, NO, NO, NO. TRUST ME. TRUST ME. NO MORE THAN 48,000. YEAH. OKAY. NO. DOES THE CITY PRESS COUNT? I WAS GONNA ASK THAT. YEAH. DOES THE CITY PRESS COUNT? NO, IT DOESN'T. SORRY. OH, IT ONLY GOES TO EVERY CITIZEN. HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME THAT IT'S, UH, REDUCED. IT'S, IS IT WEEKLY? IS IT MINIMUM? IT'S GOTTA BE A WEEKLY. OH NO, THEY'VE GOT, THEY'VE OUT THAT TOO. IT'S GOTTA BE PUBLISHED THE SAME DAY IN EACH OF TWO SUCCESSIVE WEEKS WITH THE FIRST PUBLICATION OCCURRING BEFORE THE 14TH DAY BEFORE THE DATE OF THE ELECTION. SO ALL THESE CHARTERS WILL MAKE THE PAPER TWICE AS THICK TWICE NOW, RIGHT? YEAH. WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA IN THE, IN THAT LEGAL NOTICE SECTION WHEN WE GET READY FOR THAT. Y'ALL, Y'ALL BE PREPARED FOR THE CITY OF GARLAND'S FULL PAGE AD AT THAT POINT. DO THEY SPECIFY TYPE POINT IN THE NEWSPAPER? ? PROBABLY BY THE NEWSPAPER. THEY DON'T SPECIFY IT IN THIS SECTION THOUGH. , MAYBE THEY'LL GET TO THAT. I THINK THAT ANSWERED OUR QUESTION. IF WE'RE TALKING COLUMN INCHES IN THE NEWSPAPER, THOSE ARE EXPENSIVE. YEAH. THEY'RE, IT INCHES, INCHES, INCHES. YEAH. THAT'S HOW THEY, THAT'S HOW THEY CHARGE I THINK . I DON'T KNOW HOW I PICK UP THIS INFORMATION, RIGHT? OBITUARY IN THE PAPER LATELY? NO, NO, IT'S, OH YEAH. STUPID EXPENSES. OKAY. NEXT ON OUR AGENDA, IT, IT, IT DIDN'T PRINT HERE. UH, PROPOSED NEW ITEMS. I JUST WANNA THROW SOMETHING OUT FOR FUTURE DISCUSSION. POSSIBLY MAY, UH, SINCE WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT IN DETAIL TODAY. UH, UNDER ARTICLE THREE, SECTION TWO, UH, QUALIFICATIONS, IT REFERS TO EACH MEMBER OF THE CITY COUNCIL IN ADDITION TO OTHER QUALIFICATIONS PRESCRIBED BY BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. BUT THE LAST, UH, LINE SAYS, A MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL CEASING TO RESIDE IN THE CITY ARE, IF CONVICTED OF A FELONY OR CLASS A MISDEMEANOR SHALL IMMEDIATELY FORFEIT [00:55:01] HIS OR HER OFFICE. AND SO, UM, WHAT I FOCUSED IN ON IS, UH, CONVICTED OF A FELONY OR CLASS A MISDEMEANOR, UH, THAT THEY WOULD, UH, NO LONGER CEASE TO BE IN OFFICE. THE QUESTION I WOULD LIKE TO RAISE IS, UH, QUALIFICATION TO RUN FOR COUNSEL. UH, SHOULD SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY OR CLASS A MISDEMEANOR BE ELIGIBLE, UH, TO RUN FOR COUNSEL? UH, IN, IN THE CITY OF GARLAND, THE STATE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, DOES NOT, UH, DISQUALIFY ANYONE FOR A FELONY OR CLASS A MISDEMEANOR TO RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE. 'CAUSE WE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY . THAT'S A STATE LEVEL KIND OF THING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. BUT IT WAS A PAY POLITICAL ANNOUNCEMENT. BUT, UH, I WAS WANTING TO MAYBE HAVE A DISCUSSION, UH, AT A FUTURE MEETING, UH, TO SEE WHAT THE PROS AND CONS OF PROVIDING THAT LANGUAGE MIGHT BE. UM, OF COURSE, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA. UH, WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION. YEAH. WE, WE WON'T DISCUSS IT HERE AND NOW. OKAY. BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO GIVE, GIVE CONSIDERATION OF, OF, OF THAT DISCUSSION. YEAH. I, I I WOULD SECOND THAT. I WOULD THIRD IT. OKAY. UH, LET'S ADD THAT AS AN AGENDA ITEM. AND, AND IF YOU'LL DO ANY, WHATEVER RESEARCH NEEDS TO BE ABOUT QUALIFICATIONS FOR RUNNING FOR AN OFFICE, IF THAT, IF THAT'S LEGAL AND EVERYTHING, BUT NOT DIGGING INTO ANYBODY TOO CLOSELY. . OH, . YEAH. AND, AND CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE IS EXEMPT FROM ANY OF THAT CONVICTED, CERTAINLY . NOW ARE WE TALKING ABOUT JUST CITY COUNCIL OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT EVEN THE, UH, ALL THE DIFFERENT COMMITTEES THAT THE COUNCIL FILLS UP? I THINK JUST THE CITY COUNCIL. I, I WAS JUST REFERRING TO COUNCIL OKAY. BECAUSE OF THIS SECTION. BUT, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S DISCUSSION THAT WE CAN BRING UP WHEN WE HIT THE TOPIC. OH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. OKAY. WE HAVE A QUESTION OVER HERE, CHAIR. THAT'S A GOOD ONE. GO AHEAD. WELL ACTUALLY, UM, , I HATE KIND OF BRINGING THIS UP, BUT MAYBE SOME OF THE NEW ITEM AS WELL. WHAT, UH, WHAT'S THE LIKELIHOOD OF REMOVING ANY GENDER SPEC SPECIFICITY IN THE CHARTER? 'CAUSE YOU GOTTA KNOW THAT'S GONNA YOU GOT HIS OR HER. UH, JUST YOU IN MIND, THE MILITARY'S REMOVING ALL OF THAT. I THINK THEY, THEY DON'T KIND OF LOOKED AT THAT AT THE LAST MEETING AND IT WAS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE YOU'RE GONNA BE CHANGING EVERY SECTION AND IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY COST PROHIBITIVE TO DO THAT. BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY TAKE IT UP AS THESE SECTIONS ARE AMENDED, I THINK WAS THE TACK THAT THEY TOOK THE LAST TIME. MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT KIND, KIND OF ROLLING IT IN. I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD, BUT YOU GOTTA KNOW THAT THE ROAD IS BEING PAVED IN FRONT OF YOU. WELL, IT MAY BE BEING PAVED IN FRONT OF US, BUT PERHAPS AT SOME POINT THE STATE MAKES THAT REQUIREMENT. OF COURSE, WHEN THEY DO, THEY NEVER GIVE US THE FUNDING TO COVER IT, BUT IT, IT MIGHT, THAT MIGHT BE, MIGHT HELP US IN THAT PROCESS. I WAS SAYING, I THINK THAT'S WHY WE ASK FOR LIKE THE COST, THE INCREMENTAL COST IT IS. MM-HMM. BECAUSE WE HAD TALKED ABOUT CLEANING UP LANGUAGE, AND I KNOW WE'RE DISCUSSING THIS, BUT THIS ALSO GOES TO THE POINT OF STUFF WE'VE ALREADY AGREED ON. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT VERBIAGE OF EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN AGREED ON. SO WE'RE STILL OKAY, GO AHEAD. BUT I THINK THAT'S, THAT COST IS WHERE WE'RE LIKE, IT'S NOT WORTH IT UNTIL WE HAVE TO, I MEAN, WE DO IT IN, IT'S NOT FEASIBLE. IT'S NOT FEASIBLE. THANK YOU. IT'S WORTH IT. IT'S JUST NOT FEASIBLE. BUT, UH, YOU WERE SAYING THE COUNCILS TALKED ABOUT THAT ALREADY AND POSSIBLY ROLLING IT INTO NEW ORDINANCES AS THEY'RE BEING WRITTEN. WELL, I, THEY DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT AT THIS CHARGE SESSION. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, UM, FROM TALKING WITH, UH, CITY ATTORNEY ENGLAND, THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS KIND OF PUT OUT THE LAST TIME THEY DID A CHARTER REVIEW AND THEY CHANGED SOME OF IT. BUT IT WAS THAT TO DO EVERY SINGLE REFERENCE WOULD MEAN EVERY SINGLE SECTION OF THE CHARTER HAS TO BE POSTED IN THE PAPER AND VOTED ON SEPARATELY AND ET CETERA, ET CETERA. THE STATE MADE IT, UH, RIGHT. AND THE STATE HAS MADE IT EVEN WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST TIME, WHERE NOW WE HAVE TO PUT THE ENTIRE SECTION IN THE NEWSPAPER, BUT IT DOESN'T PREVENT US FROM TRYING TO BE CAREFUL WITH THE LANGUAGE. RIGHT, EXACTLY. IT DOESN'T, AS, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SECTIONS NOW, UM, AND I'LL SAY THAT ONE OF, YOU KNOW, OUR PLAN FROM STAFF IS THAT WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW, EVEN THE NEW ITEMS THAT Y'ALL TALKED ABOUT, THE ONES WE'RE GONNA BRING BACK. BUT OUR IDEA IS THAT ONCE WE GET THROUGH THAT, WE WILL HAVE A FINAL SESSION WITH THE ENTIRE GROUP THAT WILL JUST GO THROUGH ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT Y'ALL HAVE VOTED TO SEND FORWARD AS A REVIEW, WHICH WILL KIND OF BE A PREP SESSION FOR CHAIRMAN ROBERTS BEFORE HE PRESENTS TO COUNCIL. I'M SICK THAT DAY, , DON'T YOU? WHEN MR. SMITH PRESENTS [01:00:01] TO COUNCIL . SEE, YOU'LL BE OUT OF TOWN. IT'S ON MY CALENDAR WHEN MR. ROSE PRESENTS TO COUNCIL. THERE YOU GO. WELL, AM I HEARING WHEN YOU'RE DONE THAT DON'T NEED TO DO IT AGAIN? ANY KIND OF CONSENSUS THAT WE SHOULD BE PROBABLY COGNIZANT OF THAT, OF THE LANGUAGE. OH YEAH. WE'RE WRITING NOW. MM-HMM. , RIGHT. THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU. NEXT MS. MORRIS. . . HE'S TURNING HIS HEAD. YOU'RE YOU'RE SITTING IN FRONT OF HER NAME, PLAQUE. I WAS LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU SAY? OH, WAIT A MINUTE, . I WAS DOING THAT. I WAS LIKE, WHERE? WHERE'D YOU GO? OKAY. UH, IS THERE ANY OTHER NEW BUSINESS? SO OUR NEXT MEETING IS, UH, NOT NEXT WEEK. THURSDAY. THURSDAY, SORRY. 28TH. OH, 1128. YES, SIR. 11 ON THE 28TH. YOU, YOU, THIS IS A GREAT GROUP. YOU KNOW, EVEN AFTER WE JUST, YOU KNOW, FINISH THIS, WE OUGHT MEET FOR LUNCH OR DINNER AND , RIGHT? I'M SECOND. ALL RIGHT. COMMITTEE, YOU AND I CAN HAVE A MEETING AT INTRINSIC NEXT THURSDAY. AS SOON AS HOW WE HAVE Y'ALL. IF YOU WANNA SHOW UP. IT'S AN IMPORTANT MEETING SOON AS HOW WE HAVE NO MORE BUSINESS BEFORE THIS, UH, COMMITTEE. WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 7 31 AND WE'VE MADE IT JUST AFTER COUNCIL. OH WELL. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.