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GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED THEN, BECAUSE IT MIGHT NOT[Development Services Committee on December 11, 2023.]
BE EXACTLY HALF IT.READY? ALRIGHT, WE'RE READY? YEP.
GOOD AFTERNOON AND WELCOME TO THE DECEMBER 11TH, 2023 MEETING OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE.
MYSELF IS, UH, CHAIRMAN DYLAN HEDRICK.
WITH ME, I HAVE MAYOR PRO TIMM, JEFF BASS.
UH, COUNCIL LADY DEBRA MORRIS WILL BE JOINING US SHORTLY.
THE FIRST ITEM WE HAVE ON OUR AGENDA IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE NOVEMBER 13TH, 2023 MEETING.
LET ME GO NEXT TO OUR NEXT ITEM.
I DON'T SEE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC HERE, BUT AS USUAL, WE WELCOME MANY COMMENTS THAT ANYBODY MAY HAVE.
ITEM THREE A ON OUR AGENDA IS TREE MITIGATION WAIVERS.
AND WE HAVE A COUPLE OF PRESENTATIONS HERE, I BELIEVE ARE AT LEAST ONE PRESENTATION.
NOT REALLY A FORMAL PRESENTATION PER SE.
REALLY JUST PICKING UP WHERE WE LEFT OFF, UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS MEETING BEFORE LAST, A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, UM, TALKING ABOUT THIS, UM, ORDINANCE LANGUAGE THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE ADDED TO THE GDC THAT CAN ADDRESS, UM, POSSIBLE REDUCTIONS, WAIVERS OF TREE MITIGATION FEES THAT CAN BE HANDLED ADMINISTRATIVELY.
IF THEY MEET THIS CRITERIA SET OUT IN THIS GDC LANGUAGE.
UM, IT'S A POINT SYSTEM AND THEY CAN GET AS MUCH AS, UM, 50%, UM, KNOCKED OFF THEIR, UM, OWED TO TREE MITIGATION FEE.
OF COURSE, AS A REMINDER, EACH POINT THAT THEY EARN IS WORTH 1% OF THAT AND IT WOULD CAP AT 50%.
AGAIN, IT'S JUST PURE POLICY UP FOR DISCUSSION.
BUT, UM, BUT THAT'S HOW IT'S DRAFTED.
AND THE COMMITTEE HAD A FEW, UM, QUESTIONS, UH, A COUPLE OF OUTSTANDING THINGS THAT WE LEFT OFF ON LAST TIME, SO WE CAN JUST REALLY PICK UP THERE.
AND I'VE GOT MATT GRUIT FROM PARKS HERE TO HELP TALK THROUGH SOME OF THOSE THINGS.
SO I'LL JUST START, UM, REALLY AT THE TOP AS I, UM, AS I GET MY MEMORY REFRESHED HERE.
SO I BELIEVE THE FIRST QUESTION WAS, UM, AS IT RELATES TO ALLOWING ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE AND PLACE MAKING AMENITIES AS SOME ADDITIONAL POINTS, THE QUESTION CAME UP OF WHERE THIS, UM, AT LEAST 5% NUMBER CAME FROM 5% OF THE LOT AREA PROVIDED, UM, THAT THE CREATED FACILITIES WOULD NEED TO OCCUPY.
SO, UM, MATT, DO YOU WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT OR YOUR RECOLLECTION? YEAH, SO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, THE, THE THEME OF, OF ANY INTENT OF, I THINK WHAT THIS NEW REVISION CAME FROM WAS TO BE ABLE, SO THAT THERE WAS A WAY FOR, FOR STAFF TO BE ABLE TO KIND OF HAVE SOME GUIDANCE IN TERMS OF HOW WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE DEVELOPER TO DO SOME, UH, MITIGATION OF A POTENTIALLY LARGE TREE MITIGATION.
UH, INSTEAD OF THEM, UH, ALWAYS MAYBE WANTING TO COME IN AND LOOK FOR THAT TO BE, TO BE EXEMPTED.
UM, AND WHERE A LOT OF THIS CAME FROM.
SO GIVE YOU A REAL QUICK BACKGROUND BECAUSE SOME OF IT OF IT WILL MAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE SENSE.
UM, WE HAD THE SAME ISSUE BEFORE I CAME TO WORK FOR THE CITY OF GARLAND.
I WAS, UH, HELPED AND CONTRACTED WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS TO REWRITE THEIR TREE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE.
UM, 'CAUSE YOU CAN IMAGINE THEY HAD SOME VERY, VERY LARGE TREE PRESERVATION ORDINANCES IN SOUTH DALLAS.
AND WE WENT THROUGH ABOUT A TWO AND A HALF YEAR REWRITE.
AND THIS WAS A BIG, THIS IS A SCALED DOWN VERSION OF SOME OF THE, THE REALLY GOOD NUGGETS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT.
UM, TO BE ABLE TO ALLOW STAFF TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH DEVELOPERS WHERE THERE COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE BEEN A VERY, VERY LARGE TREE MITIGATION THAT COULD A STYMIED DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND SO THE 5% ON THIS, A LOT OF THESE ARE, ARE PURELY POLICY THAT WAS BATTED BACK AND FORTH IN THEIR P AND Z AND THEIR COUNCIL OVER A VERY, VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
AND SO, 5%, IF I REMEMBER BACK IN TERMS OF, OF WHERE THOSE DISCUSSIONS WENT TO, UM, IT WAS A LARGE ENOUGH PARCEL THAT IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY ADD SOME VALUE TO THE DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT WASN'T SO LARGE THAT IT THEN BECAME COST BURDENSOME THAT THEY WOULDN'T WANNA DO IT AND THEN, UH, UH, BE UN UNRULY OR TAKE UP TOO MUCH SPACE OF WHAT WOULD BE DEVELOPABLE SPACE.
SO REALLY THAT WAS, UH, KIND OF CAME OUT OF A LOT OF DISCUSSION FROM ANOTHER PROCESS THAT WENT THROUGH THIS.
BUT IT IS PURELY A POLICY DECISION.
IF IT WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD SAID, HEY, WE WANTED THAT TO BE LESS PERCENTAGE OR WE WANTED THAT TO BE A LARGER PERCENTAGE, UM, THOSE ARE DISCUSSIONS THAT YOU ALL COULD HAVE AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? WELL, ABOUT THE PRIVATE OR INTERIOR COURTYARDS ARE EXCLUDED.
SO THE, THE IN BEHIND THAT? YEAH.
SO THE, THE REASON WAS, WAS BECAUSE IF IT'S EXTERIOR, IT HAS A PUBLIC BENEFIT WHETHER, AND YOU COULD SEE, I THINK IT'S ON THE, THE SECOND PIECE OF IT, YOU GET MORE POINTS IF IT HAS A PUBLIC FEATURE TO IT.
SO IT'S A OPEN SPACE THAT WOULD BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT BE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY VERSUS LET'S SAY IT'S LIKE A HOA, UH, IT'S STILL PUBLIC FACING, BUT IT'S RESTRICTED TO THAT HOA, UM, IF IT'S INTERIOR, IT REALLY, THE ONLY BENEFIT THAT IT HAS IS TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT
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ARE WITHIN THAT BUILDING OR WITHIN THAT DEVELOPMENT.IT DOESN'T HAVE A PUBLIC, UH, BENEFIT.
SO BY REMOVING THOSE TREES, WE WANNA MAKE SURE ANY WAIVER OR MITIGATION THAT WE WOULD GIVE TO 'EM WOULD ADD PUBLIC VALUE.
AND SO THAT'S THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR.
I GUESS I'M TRYING TO THINK OF A SITUATION WHERE THAT WOULD REALLY BE THE CASE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY BUILDS, LIKE LET'S SAY SOMEBODY BUILDS MULTI-FAMILY, IT'S GONNA HAVE A FENCE AROUND IT ANYWAY.
IF WE DEVELOP A SUBDIVISION, IT'S GONNA HAVE A WALL AROUND IT.
SO I DON'T REALLY, YOU KNOW, I MEAN IT, THE, IT SOUNDS, IT SOUNDS NICE, I THINK UNTIL YOU LOOK INTO APPLICATION OF THE, YOU KNOW, AS OPPOSED TO THE THEORY OF, RIGHT.
AND, AND THE THEORY OF THIS IS, IS IT REALLY GIVES SOME GUIDANCE WHERE I WOULD THINK THAT AS STAFF WE WOULD LOOK AT A POTENTIAL PROJECT THAT WOULD COME IN IF IT WOULD HAVE, UH, A SCREENING WALL THAT WENT AROUND IT.
TO ME, ANY TYPE OF, OF GREEN SPACE OR ADDITIONAL PARK SPACE THAT WOULD BE BEHIND THAT GREEN WALL DOES NOT HAVE, UM, THAT PUBLIC BENEFIT TO IT, WHICH WOULD NOT ALLOW US TO BE ABLE TO, TO PUT THAT TOWARDS THE, THE MITIGATION.
BUT THERE ARE DEVELOPMENTS THAT MIGHT BE OUT THERE THAT DON'T HAVE A SCREENING WALL THAT DO HAVE PUBLIC FACING GREEN SPACE OR PUBLIC FACING, UH, PARK FEATURES, UM, THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THEM ON.
SO IT KIND OF JUST, IT LEAVES IT AS A POSSIBILITY.
I MEAN, I, I'M IN FAVOR OF THIS THE WAY IT IS, UM, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE EXCLUSION OF PRIVATE OR ENGINEER.
UM, 'CAUSE I, I, I STILL FEEL THAT THERE'S A BENEFIT TO IT, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
EVEN IF IT IS JUST TO WHOEVER'S IN THAT SPACE, I MEAN, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE HAVE A GREATER, BE A GREATER INCENTIVE IF IT'S, YOU KNOW MM-HMM.
BUT HAVE SOME INCENTIVE A LITTLE BIT AT LEAST TO, YOU KNOW, TO INCLUDE IT, YOU KNOW? YEP.
WHAT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S NOT A BAD, UM, THOUGHT COUNCILMAN.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ONE CASE THAT I CAN THINK OF THAT'S ACTUALLY ON THE KNIGHTS PLAN COMMISSION AGENDA IS IT'S A MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT, AND THEY DO HAVE SOME INTERIOR COURTYARDS.
UM, OBVIOUSLY WON'T BEVIS VISIBLE TO THE PUBLIC AND THAT IT'LL BE ENTIRELY PRIVATE.
UM, BUT THE COURTYARDS ACTUALLY ARE, UM, THEY INCLUDE GREEN SPACE.
IT'S GOT SOME, UM, YOU KNOW, BOCCE BALL AND, UM, ALL SORTS OF
SO IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY I THINK OF COURTYARDS AS, AS, YOU KNOW, ALL PAVEMENT.
BUT, UM, THE WAY THIS IS LAID OUT, IT'S LAID OUT LIKE A COURTYARD AND THEY, THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT CALLING IT A COURTYARD PER SE, BUT IT, IT AT LEAST COUNTS TOWARDS THEIR AMENITY REQUIREMENTS AND THE GDC AND THEN THE PD THEY'RE, THEY'RE PROPOSING ZONING WISE.
SO, UM, YEAH, CERTAINLY IF WE CAN INCENTIVIZE SOMEBODY TO ADD SOME GREEN SPACE MM-HMM.
A QUESTION ABOUT THAT SECTION THERE.
WHAT WOULD QUALIFY, AS YOU MENTIONED MULTIFAMILY, A LOT OF TIMES THEY PROVIDE A DOG PARK, IF IT'S A, IF NOT NATURAL GRASS, WOULD THAT COUNT IF IT'S ARTIFICIAL GRASS OR OFTENTIMES MULTIFAMILY MIGHT HAVE A YEAH.
SOME KIND OF SORT OF RECREATION OR SEATING AREA THAT, BECAUSE IT SAYS SEATING AREAS AND JUST KINDA GET A SENSE OF WHAT QUALIFIES IN THIS.
WELL, AND IT'S BEYOND MINIMUM GDC REQUIREMENTS.
UH, IF, IF A MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT COMES THROUGH AND IS CHECKING THE BOXES AS FAR AS MEETING THOSE, UM, AMENITY OR THOSE MENU OF AMENITY REQUIREMENTS IN THE GDC, UM, I MEAN A SEATING AREA OR, UM, IT'S BOCCE BALL OR WHATEVER THE MENU, YOU KNOW, PUTTING GREEN, THAT CAN ALL BE MM-HMM.
UM, 'CAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S JUST A WIDE VARIETY OF, UM, AMENITIES REQUIRED.
THE, THAT INTENT FOR AMENITIES, OF COURSE, IS MEETING THE NEEDS OF THE RESIDENTS RIGHT.
AND HAVING SOMETHING THAT FOR THEM TO DO VERSUS NECESSARILY IT ALL BEING, UM, LIVING GRASS, LIVING GREEN SPACE.
AND I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT 5% NUMBER AS WELL.
UM, IS THERE A, IF YOU HAVE A 20 ACRE SITE THAT'S A FULL ACRE OF A FACILITY AND THAT'S, IT SEEMS QUITE LARGE FOR ME AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT NOT IN, UH, WELL, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY AREAS THAT ARE THAT LARGE REALLY RIGHT.
BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THERE'S A, WAS ANY DISCUSSION, AT LEAST IN YOUR PREVIOUS ROLE WITH CITY OF DALLAS, 5% UP TO A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE OR, OR THAT, 'CAUSE I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF THAT, THE SCALE OF A PROJECT WHERE THAT SCALE, WHERE THAT 5% CAME FROM? MM-HMM.
UM, NO, THERE WASN'T AT THAT POINT.
AGAIN, A LOT OF THIS STUFF WAS KIND OF GOING INTO PRACTICE NOW, BUT I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.
'CAUSE IF YOU HAVE A VERY LARGE SITE, I THINK AGAIN, WHERE IT WAS
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IS WHEN YOU START TO GIVE LARGE BREAKS AND WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE A LARGE MITIGATION, YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE GONNA GET THAT LARGE BENEFIT BACK.AND SO IF YOU HAD A 20 ACRE SITE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU, AND YOU HAD A REALLY, REALLY LARGE SEVERAL MILLION DOLLAR MITIGATION FEE MM-HMM.
AND I, AGAIN, I'M JUST TALK GOING THROUGH WHAT THE, THE, THE THOUGHT PROCESS WAS AND THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND WHERE THESE THINGS CAME FROM.
AGAIN, IF, IF WE THINK THAT'S TOO, TOO MUCH WITHIN WHERE WE WANT TO GO AND WE WANNA LOOK AT A MAXIMUM SQUARE FEET, OR YOU COULD EVEN GO AND LOOK AT IT BY, BY ZONING TYPE OR BY WHAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT IT IS, THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS THAT YOU CAN START TO SPLIT THAT UP.
BUT THE THOUGHT PROCESS THROUGH ALL OF THESE THINGS IS YOU START TO LOOK AT IT IS THE ONLY TIME THESE THINGS ARE REALLY GONNA COME UP IS IF IT'S A REALLY, REALLY BIG MITIGATION MEMBER MM-HMM.
THIS IS A WAY FOR US JUST AGAIN, TO BE ABLE TO SAY, OKAY, HOW CAN WE WORK WITH YOU? AND THEN HOW ARE WE GONNA ALSO, IF WE'RE GONNA GIVE A BIG CHUNK, 'CAUSE THESE ARE REAL DOLLARS THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE GONNA GET PLANT TREES BACK INTO THE CITY AND OTHER, AND OTHER AVENUES TO REPLACE THAT CANOPY WAS LOST.
HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GONNA GET THAT BENEFIT BACK? SURE.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE WE, WE TRY TO MAKE THOSE MEAT AND YEAH, IT'S A LOT OF IT IS A MORE THEORY AND PRACTICE AND, AND KIND OF SITTING DOWN WITH THE, THE DEVELOPER AND WORKING WITH THEM AND, AND FIGURING OUT WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO MAKE IT, MAKE IT BE.
AND THERE'S, THIS IS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
'CAUSE THIS CAN GET VERY, VERY DETAILED AND VERY, VERY RESTRICTIVE VERY, VERY QUICKLY AND CAN TAKE A LONG TIME TO GO THROUGH AND, AND PULL THROUGH EXAMPLES, WHICH IS WHY IT TOOK TWO AND A HALF YEARS TO GO THROUGH IT.
OR IT CAN GIVE GUIDANCE AND IT CAN GIVE GUIDANCE AND, AND WE CAN TEST IT OUT AND KIND OF SEE HOW IT WORKS AND THEN TWEAK IT AND ALWAYS COME BACK AND, AND, AND MAKE SOME CORRECTIONS.
SO IT'S REALLY WHICH WAY DO YOU ALL WANNA GO IN YOUR RECOMMENDATION? AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD ONE.
IF WE WANNA LOOK AT WHAT A MAXIMUM SQUARE FEET IS, I THINK THAT THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL TO MAKE YOU ALL FEEL A LITTLE BIT MORE COMFORTABLE.
UH, SAME WAY WITH THE INTERIOR SPACE, TO YOUR POINT, I THINK IS A GOOD POINT TOO.
MAYBE THAT'S A, A LITTLE BIT LESS, MAYBE IF IT'S TOTALLY PRIVATE AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC ACCESS.
IT'S TWO AND A HALF POINTS VERSUS THE FIVE.
UM, SO AGAIN, YOU'RE STILL GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF REDUCTION, BUT IT'S NOT AS MUCH AS IF YOU HAVE A TRUE PUBLIC FACING, UM, PUBLIC ACCESS TYPE OF AMENITY THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.
AND I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
I MEAN, LIKE YOU SAID, THEY'RE TRYING TO GET CREDIT, SO I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT BEING A HIGHER NUMBER.
I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THAT NUMBER.
ANY, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THIS ITEM? THIS PORTION? OKAY.
WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PART THEN? YES.
OH, WE, UM, IN THIS DRAFT WHERE THIS SAME SECTION IS SUBJECT TO APPROVAL OF THE PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR, THE, THE PREVIOUS DRAFT SAID DEPARTMENT.
UM, AND SO THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION AS TO WHETHER WE WERE ALLUDING TO THAT NEEDING PARKS BOARD, UM, APPROVAL.
IT WAS THE INTENT WAS TO KEEP THIS ADMINISTRATIVE AT THE DIRECTOR OR HIS OR HER DESIGNEE LEVEL.
SO THAT'S BEEN CHANGED TO DIRECTOR, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION STAFF LEVEL.
UM, AND THEN THERE WAS SOME QUESTION, UH, AS TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE MINIMUM THRESHOLD, SO TO SPEAK, OF AN ENHANCED LANDSCAPE ENTRY, UH, FEATURE, GATEWAY FEATURE? IS PLANTING JUST TWO OR THREE SHRUBS AND
AND, UM, I, ANYTHING TO ADD ON THAT OR? UH, THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD ADD IS THAT, THAT WE ARE INTERNALLY, UH, WITH, UM, UH, WORKING ON A GATEWAY AND CORRIDOR PLAN, WHICH WILL BE WHAT WOULD LOOK LIKE AND GETTING ACTUALLY WORKING WITH THE LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT TO BE ABLE TO GET SOME REFRESH DESIGNS FOR WHAT A NEW ENTRYWAY, UNIQUE LANDSCAPES WOULD LOOK LIKE, UH, TO GARLAND WHAT NEW ENTRYWAY FEATURES MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
AND SO AS THAT PLAN COMES TOGETHER, THAT WOULD KIND OF FIT RIGHT INTO THE MANUAL THAT WILL IS TALKING ABOUT.
SO WE WOULD BE ABLE TO SHOW WITH REAL NUMBERS AND COSTS, UH, AND WHAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT AND WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE ABLE TO, TO GET THAT MAXIMUM, UM, UH, MATCH OR WAIVER.
AND I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING LATE.
I GOT CAUGHT IN AN UNEXPECTED SITUATION AND I WAS FAR FROM HOME.
UM, I WAS ANTICIPATING HAVING A PRINT, A HARD COPY
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OF THIS DRAFT AND I DON'T SEE ANY OF 'EM STACKED.DO THEY NOT, ARE THEY NOT HERE? NO, I APOLOGIZE.
IT'S GOT, WERE THEY EMAILED TO US? I DIDN'T SEE IT ON THE, ATTACHED TO OUR ON FRIDAY.
I JUST DIDN'T SEE AN ATTACHMENT OF THIS TO LOOK AT.
I'M SORRY, I APPARENTLY JUST MISSED IT.
UM, THERE'S SOME COMMENTS OUT TO THE SIDE, SO JUST DISREGARD THOSE AGAIN.
YEAH, I'LL GIVE IT BACK TO YOU.
IT WAS JUST THE, YEAH, THE WORD DOCUMENT COMMENTS.
AND THEN FINALLY, UM, AND MAYBE MATT CAN HELP US WITH THIS, BUT THERE WAS SOME QUESTION ABOUT THE PREVIOUS DRAFT SAID, UM, RAIN GARDEN MAXIMUM 10 POINTS UNDER THIS LOW PACK DEVELOPMENT.
UM, SO WE HAD CHANGED THE NAME TO BUYER RETENTION AREA, PERHAPS TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE BROAD.
UM, WAS THERE ANY THOUGHT BEHIND THAT, MATT? OR, SO YOU HAVE BIO RETENTION, THE IN IN BIOS SWALES, YOU KIND OF CAN GET THAT COULD PROBABLY ACTUALLY BE USED LIT A LITTLE BIT.
WE COULD PROBABLY GET RID OF ONE OF 'EM IF WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THE NAME TO BIO RETENTION.
'CAUSE BIO RETENTION AND BIOSWALES ARE BOTH KIND OF USE INTER, INTER USED TOGETHER.
UM, LIKE DIFFERENT NAMES FOR THE SAME THING.
UM, REALLY WHAT THE THOUGHT PROCESS HERE IS TO REDUCE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE AND U RE IN INCREASE, UM, PERVIOUS SURFACES AND HOW DO WE USE GREEN SPACE IN A BETTER WAY THAN JUST HAVING RETENTION PONDS AND DETENTION PONDS, UH, USING THINGS LIKE BIOSWALES AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT ARE MORE NATURAL, UM, WITHIN THE SITE TO BE ABLE TO CAPTURE, UH, STORM WATER AND CLEAN STORM WATER.
UM, SO I THINK A GOOD RECOMMENDATION WOULD PROBABLY BE TO, TO REMOVE BIO RETENTION AND JUST STAY WITH BIOSWALES AND REMOVE I MM-HMM.
YOU SAID CAPTURE RAINWATER AND TREAT RAINWATER.
NOW THOSE ARE TWO JUST SEPARATE THINGS THERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND YOU START TO GET INTO THE HYDROLOGY AND HYDRAULICS ABOUT IT THAT MAY NOT BE AFFECTED BY WHAT THESE ARE BECAUSE IF WE'RE STARTING TO REQUIRE THESE AREAS, IT, I MEAN, IT CHANGED YOUR PIPING AND DETENTION POND AND SIZING AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING.
UM, WHICH IS A MUCH LARGER, IT'S LARGER THAN THE SCOPE OF THIS EXACTLY.
UM, BUT DOES HAVE IMPACT, RIGHT.
AND DOES HAVE A, A VERY LARGE IMPACT.
AND SO IF YOU'RE ABLE, IF A DEVELOPER WAS TO BE USING THOSE TYPES OF, OF RAINWATER AND STORM WATER CAPTURING SYSTEMS, UM, ON SITE THAT ARE GENERALLY MORE, MORE COSTLY THAN JUST PUTTING IN PIPE AND, AND, AND CONCRETE, YOU KNOW, THEN THEY SHOULD GET REDUCTIONS IN WHAT COULD, UM, BE LARGE TREE MITIGATION FEES ON A PARTICULAR SITE.
AND I, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM HAVING BOTH OF THESE UP THERE BECAUSE I THINK OF THEY SERVE DIFFERENT PURPOSES OF SWALE TO ME IS MORE OF A LINEAR TREATMENT OPTION.
SO I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM HAVING BOTH OF THOSE IN THERE AT ALL.
MY QUESTION IS THOUGH, ON, UM, THE DEFINITION OR RETENTION AREA SAYS ONE TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET A ONE SQUARE FOOT BIO RETENTION AREA IS YEAH.
VERY LITTLE
SO, UM, I, I WOULD CHANGE THAT TO SOMETHING ELSE.
UH, 5,000 SQUARE FEET QUITE A BIT.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO DIVIDE THAT UP INTO, YOU CAN GET 1.2 POINTS, THREE POINTS FOR INCREASING SIZES.
UM, I MEAN IF YOU ADD TO YOUR, TO YOUR POINT, AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE.
IF IF SOMEBODY'S GONNA DO BIO RETENTIONS AND BIOSWELLS WITHIN A, WITHIN A PROPERTY, THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA GO ALL THE WAY OUT, RIGHT? IF, IF THIS IS NOT MEANT TO CHANGE OUR, OUR STORM WATER, RIGHT.
WHICH IS A WHOLE LARGER, ANOTHER CONVERSATION THAT CAN BE OUT THERE WHERE THIS LOOKS AT.
AND I THINK WHERE THE ONE COMES FROM TO THE 5,000 IS IF YOU CAN HAVE ONE YES, IS, IS PRETTY SMALL, BUT I'VE SEEN 10 SQUARE FOOT AND 20 SQUARE FOOT, UH, ESPECIALLY ON A SMALL LOT, UH, BIO SWELLS THAT HAVE, THAT ARE VERY, VERY IMPACT, UH, IMPACTFUL.
UM, EVEN I'VE SEEN ONES AS AS SMALL AS TWO TO THREE THAT ARE MORE DEMONSTRATION.
AND ANYTHING TO ME THAT IS GONNA START TO, THAT COULD BE A DEMONSTRATION
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PLOT THAT COULD START TO SHOW SOMETHING.YOU COULD EVEN SAY WE MOVE INTO IT LAR INTO IT LATER IN TERMS OF LARGERS SOIL VOLUMES FOR TREES.
NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY'RE GONNA GET THE MAXIMUM 10 POINTS IF THEY JUST DO SOMETHING THAT'S SMALL LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD WORK WITH 'EM AND MAYBE GIVE 'EM A ONE OR TWO POINT REDUCTION, UM, TO, TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AGAIN.
SO IT'S JUST, THIS ISN'T MEANT, I THINK TO CHANGE THE PHILOSOPHY OF A DEVELOPER IN TERMS OF HOW THEY'RE GONNA DO STORMWATER ON THEIR SITE.
IT'S MORE WE CAN, THEY CAN GET A LITTLE BIT OF RELIEF FROM THEIR MITIGATION.
AND IT STARTS TO, YOU KNOW, IF WE DO GET A COUPLE OF THOSE ON THE GROUND, IT STARTS TO SHOW WHAT CAN BE DONE AND WHAT COULD BE DONE.
AND IT STARTS TO HAVE A MODEL OUT THERE.
I THINK A LOT OF THE DEVELOPERS ARE GONNA, IF THEY GET A BIG MITIGATION NUMBER BACK, THEY'RE GONNA LOOK AT THIS AT A MENU AND SAY, I CAN PICK A, B AND F AND IT'D GET MY 10% REDUCTION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND, AND THAT'S KIND OF HOW IT WORKS.
UM, BUT IF I GET SOME OF THE MITIGATION, WE GET SOME OF THE MITIGATION DOLLARS AS OPPOSED TO IT ALL BEING WAIVED.
AND YOU GET A LITTLE BIT BETTER OF AN IMPROVEMENT ONTO, UM, THE DEVELOPMENT ITSELF AND MM-HMM.
WHAT THIS IS, IS TO MAKE THE DEVELOPMENT BETTER.
AND IF YOU'RE MAKING A BETTER DEVELOPMENT BY CUTTING ALL OF THESE TREES DOWN, WE'RE GETTING DEVELOPMENT, WE'RE GETTING A BETTER DEVELOPMENT EVEN THOUGH WE'RE LOSING THESE TREES, THEN THERE'S A TRADE OFF IN THERE THAT I BELIEVE NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
UM, ONE OTHER CLEAN UP THAT ONE SQUARE FOOT.
ONE OTHER THING ON THE BIOS SQUARE IS 50 TO A HUNDRED FEET LONG.
IF YOU GET 50, IF YOU GET THREE POINTS FOR A 50 FOOT SWALE, YOU WOULDN'T DO A HUNDRED FOOT SWALE NECESSARILY.
AND THEN IF YOU GET AN ADDITIONAL POINT FOR EVERY 50 FEET, THEN DO YOU GET FOUR POINTS FOR A HUNDRED FOOT LONG ONE, OR DO YOU GET THREE POINTS AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GO 150 FEET TO GET A FOURTH POINT DETAILS? I KNOW, I, BUT I LOOK INTO THE DETAILS BECAUSE I LOOK AT, LIKE, A DEVELOPER LOOKS AT THIS AND THEY'LL SAY, THIS IS CONFUSING TO ME IF I'M TRYING TO PICK OUT WHAT OPTIONS ARE.
WELL, AND AGAIN, AND WHAT, AND, AND WHERE THE PHILOSOPHY COMES IN TERMS OF, OKAY, DO YOU MAKE THIS SO DETAILED THAT A DEVELOPER COULD PICK IT UP AND SAY, OKAY, I'M GONNA PICK FROM THIS LAUNDRY LIST.
OR DO YOU MAKE IT GOOD ENOUGH, BUT MAYBE NOT SO DETAILED THAT THE DEVELOPER CALLS UP WILL AND HIS TEAM OR, OR BRIA OR ANDY OR MYSELF AND SAYS, HEY, WE WANT TO DO THIS DEVELOPMENT.
I SEE THAT I HAVE ALL THESE OPTIONS.
LET'S SIT DOWN AT THE TABLE AND FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE LAY OUT OUR SITE THE BEST, HOW DO WE DO ALL THIS THE BEST TO BE ABLE TO MAXIMIZE THE BENEFITS I CAN SO THAT I DON'T HAVE TO PAY THIS LARGE, THIS LARGE MITIGATION, UH, CHECK.
AND TO ME THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DO IT.
'CAUSE A LOT OF TIMES SITE PLANS ARE DONE AND THEY'VE INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY, YOU KNOW, INTO WHAT THAT SITE'S GONNA LOOK LIKE.
AND THEN THEY REALIZE, OH MY GOSH, I HAVE THIS HUGE MITIGATION FEE AND NOW I CAN'T AFFORD THIS PROJECT UNLESS I GO AND I GET IT WAIVED.
SO, BUT IF THEY LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, OKAY, I KNOW I HAVE A A SITE THAT HAS A LOT OF TREES ON IT.
I HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE A LOT OF MITIGATION BEFORE I GO IN AND START SPENDING THAT MONEY THIS.
SO THEY SHOWS THAT, HEY, THE CITY'S AT LEAST WILLING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ME AND WORK WITH ME.
HOW DO WE GET THEM EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS TO SAY, HEY, WE WANNA WORK WITH YOU TOO.
WE HAVE THIS LAUNDRY LIST OF ITEMS. LET'S REALLY START TO SIT DOWN AND FIGURE OUT HOW THIS SITE LAYS OUT SO THAT IT BENEFITS THE CITY AND IT BENEFITS THE DEVELOPER.
SO IT IS PHILOSOPHY IN TERMS OF WHERE, HOW YOU WANT THE POLICY TO READ IN TERMS OF HOW DETAILED YOU WANT VERSUS KIND OF MORE, UM, THEORETICAL, BUT WITH SOME GUIDANCE.
YOU'RE GETTING INTO PHILOSOPHY HERE.
WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT STAFF TO BE HA HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THE SITE LAYOUT OR LET THE CONSULTANTS WHO THE DEVELOPER HIRED TO BE MORE HEAVILY INVOLVED.
AND IT SOUND LIKE A MIX HERE, BUT I'M JUST WORRIED THAT, UH, STAFF GETTING INVOLVED IN CHANGING AND SAYING, YOU NEED TO, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA WORK WITH YOU, BUT ADD THIS AND THIS AND THIS, RATHER THAN HAVE IT MORE, YOU KNOW, MORE DETAILS LAID OUT.
I, I LIKE TO SEE THOSE AS A, A DESIGNER MYSELF PERSONALLY, JUST 'CAUSE THEN THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH.
BUT IT KIND OF, WHEN YOU START GETTING DEFINITIONS THAT AREN'T EXACTLY, AND A LITTLE FUZZY AND YOU HAVE TO ASK STAFF, IT, IT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'LL CREATE MORE PROBLEMS FOR YOU AS WELL, UH, STAFF.
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THE COMMITTEE, YEAH.
AND I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT, MATT, BECAUSE IT, I FEEL AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS, THAT OUR, THAT OUR OBJECTIVE IS TO SET IT UP CAFETERIA STYLE.
BUT NOW YOU'RE SAYING THE OPPOSITE.
YOU'RE SAYING YOU WANT SUBJECTIVITY.
SO IT IS, IT'S KIND OF A MIX OF BOTH IN THERE.
AND SO I GUESS WE NEED TO, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO DECIDE WHICH DIRECTION IT NEEDS TO GO, RIGHT? EITHER IT'S GONNA BE SET UP YES.
CAFETERIA ISLAND, LIKE DYLAN WAS SAYING, I MEAN, AS YOU, AS A BUSINESS OWNER, IF I LOOK AT SOMETHING AND YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, 50 GETS
[00:25:01]
ME THREE, A HUNDRED GETS ME FOUR, I'M GONNA DO THE MATH ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE THINGS AND SEE WHAT'S GONNA WORK THE MOST EFFICIENTLY FOR ME.TO MAXIMIZE MY PROFIT IN THE PROJECT.
NOW THAT'S, THAT'S CAFETERIA STYLE.
AND I'M PICKING AND CHOOSING WHAT I'VE GOT.
AND THAT'S TAKING OUT THE SUBJECTIVITY.
IF WE WANT THEM TO MEET WITH STAFF AND HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS AS OPPOSED TO JUST GETTING IT OFF A CHECKLIST, THEN THIS NEEDS TO BE A LOT MORE VAGUE THAN IT IS.
IT WOULD NEED TO BE, THESE ARE THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO TO REDUCE YOUR MITIGATION COSTS.
AND THEN THEY WOULD THEN HAVE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND LAY OUT THAT PLAN.
BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S KIND OF A MIX OF THE TWO.
WE'RE PUTTING IN THE DETAILS, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE DETAILS VAGUE TO FORCE THAT CONVERSATION.
IT KIND OF, IT NEEDS TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER.
AND I MEAN, GOING THE SUBJECTIVITY METHOD, UH, UH, IS MORE WORK FOR STAFF.
BUT IF WE DO IT CAFETERIA STYLE AND LET THEM GO THROUGH A CHECKLIST, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE INCENTIVIZED TO GO THE DIRECTION WE WANT THEM TO GO BY GIVING MORE CREDIT FOR THINGS WE PREFER THEM TO DO.
AND, AND THAT'S AN OPTION THAT IF THAT'S THE WAY THAT, THAT THAT COUNCIL DIRECTS US TO GO, THIS NEEDS A LOT MORE WORK.
I THINK THIS WAS KIND OF A, A, A WAY TO SAY, OKAY, LET'S AT LEAST GET SOMETHING OUT THERE AND IN FRONT OF YOU TO START TO SHOW YOU WHAT COULD TAKE PLACE.
UM, WHEN WE DID THE, THE OVER THE REWRITE OF THE TREE ORDINANCE, WE PURPOSELY KINDA LEFT THIS OUT BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS A MUCH BIGGER TASK.
IT'S WHY IT TOOK TWO AND A HALF YEARS FOR IT TO GO THROUGH THERE.
UM, MORE THAN HAPPY TO, TO, TO GO THROUGH THAT EXERCISE, UM, WITH YOU ALL AND, AND WITH WILL AND HIS TEAM TO, TO GET US TO THAT POINT.
UM, I THINK WE NEEDED TO GET STUFF IN FRONT OF YOU AT FIRST BECAUSE THESE ARE POLICY DECISIONS TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU ALL WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH SO THAT WE COULD TAKE THAT, THAT NEXT STEP.
I MEAN, HONESTLY, I'D, I PREFER HAVING A CHECKLIST AND VALUES ASSIGNED TO IT CAN OF CAFETERIA STYLE.
I PREFER THAT BECAUSE IT, IT, IT, IT LETS THE DEVELOPER GET A TRUE LOOK AT WHAT IT, WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS ARE.
IT TAKES A BURDEN OFF THE STAFF.
IT'S, IT'S GUARANTEED TO BE A COUPLE OF LESS VISITS FOR THE DEVELOPER WITH STAFF.
UM, IT'S GONNA BE EASIER ONCE SOMETHING COMES TO COUNCIL FOR US TO, TO LOOK AT IT BECAUSE IT'S ONE PLUS ONE EQUALS TWO.
YOU KNOW, AS OPPOSED TO, WELL, WE WANNA DO THIS FOR THIS GUY BECAUSE OF THIS.
UM, SO I'D, I'D HONESTLY PREFER IT TO BE, YOU KNOW, A CHECKLIST MORE DETAILED.
AND IT COULD BE NOT TO OVER, WE, WE CAN GO BACK, BUT I MEAN, IT COULD JUST BE AS SIMPLE AS REMOVING THE RANGE AND SAYING EVERY 50 FEET IS ONE POINT OR YEAH, EXACTLY.
JUST KEEP IT, IT MIGHT JUST BE A VERY SIMPLE WAY TO SIMPLIFY IT.
AND THEN, AND I DON'T KNOW WHICH THINGS NEED, WE WOULD PREFER TO EMPHASIZE OVER OTHERS, BUT AFTER WE GIVE EVERYTHING A VALUE, YOU THEN TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND YOU SAY, OKAY, WELL WE WOULD PREFER THEM TO DO A, SO LET'S GIVE A MORE VALUE THAN B, YOU KNOW? YEP.
UM, BUT YOU GOTTA START OFF BY GIVING EVERYTHING A VALUE SO THAT, THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY I THINK I WOULD PREFER IT.
UM, AND YEAH, I, AND I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THE WHOLE SUBJECTIVE THING.
IT'S, IT'S B ONE THING OR ANOTHER, BUT STRADDLING IT IS GONNA FRUSTRATE THE DEVELOPERS.
IT'S GONNA END UP FRUSTRATING STAFF ALONG THE WAY.
AND WITH THE, THE NEW STREAMLINED ZONING PATH THAT WE'VE, YOU KNOW, RECENTLY WALKED THROUGH, UM, THE WHOLE IDEA IS MAKE THINGS MORE CLEAR AND LESS, UH, LESS ITERATIONS REQUIRED.
AND THIS WOULD DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE IF WE'RE, IT ALMOST FEELS A LITTLE MANIPULATIVE.
IT'S LIKE, WE'RE GONNA PRETEND WE'RE SHOWING YOU WHAT WE WANT, BUT REALLY WE'RE FORCING YOU TO COME MEET WITH US AGAIN AND AGAIN.
HAVING COME FROM A FAMILY OF BUSINESS PEOPLE, I JUST, LIKE JEFF SAID, I WOULD WANT TO BE ABLE TO SIT DOWN AND CALCULATE WHAT I NEED TO DO, HOW TO GET THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK.
AND, YOU KNOW, AND AT SOME POINT, UH, YOU COULD ADD IN LANGUAGE OR JUST TELL THE DEVELOPERS, UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU WORK THROUGH THIS AND YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, YOU WANNA SEE HOW YOU CAN IMPROVE IT, COME TO US, BUT NOT FORCE THEM TO COME BECAUSE OF LACK OF CLARITY.
SO I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT A LOT OF THIS AND A LOT OF THIS LOOKS GOOD, BUT JUST, I WOULD DEFINITELY LEAN TOWARD MAKING IT MORE OF, WHAT DID YOU CALL IT? A CAFETERIA STYLE? CAFETERIA STYLE.
LET US PICK AND CHOOSE AND DECIDE WHAT WE WANT.
AND THEN IF THERE'S MORE, COME, COME TO STAFF AND DISCUSS IT.
[00:30:02]
YOU FEEL THE SAME WAY, DYLAN? I DO.'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO EXACTLY.
IS LOOK AT WHAT'S THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUG.
AND WHEN THEY'RE FIRST TALKING TO YOU, YOU FIRST WOULD BE ADDRESSED.
I IMAGINE DURING THE PRE-DEVELOPMENT MEETING, YOU'D SEE A SITE THAT HAS A LOT OF TREES AND THEY COME AT YOU WITH A SITE PLANNER CONCEPT AT LEAST, AND YOU'RE GONNA SAY, HEY, WE CAN MEET WITH YOU, HAVE A SEPARATE MEETING AND TALK THROUGH THIS KIND OF STUFF AND KIND OF GUIDE THEM, BUT STILL HAVE IT LAID OUT.
LET THEM DECIDE WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.
WELL, AND IT ALSO GIVES STAFF THE DIRECTION TOO.
YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING IF THEY DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING AND THEY DO WANT TO, YOU KNOW, DO SOMETHING MORE CREATIVE OR DIFFERENT, AT LEAST STAFF HAS A BLUEPRINT TO START FROM.
DO WE WANNA CONTINUE THEN THROUGH, I HAVE A FEW MORE COMMENTS THROUGH THE, SOME OTHER ITEMS ON HERE AND IT IT ITEM THROUGH I THREE I THERE, THE WISE PLANT MATERIALS, IT JUST, AGAIN, DEFINITIONS.
I DON'T KNOW QUITE WHAT THAT IS OR WHAT TYPE ARE WE LOOKING AT? CERTAIN SPECIES OR, OR WHAT OF WATER WISE.
FURTHER DOWN, IT TALKS ABOUT LOW WATER CONSUMPTION, GRASSES, THAT'S ANOTHER ONE.
I MEAN, CERTAIN SPECIES OF GRASSES OR, OR WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR THERE,
AND, UH, IF YOU KEEP GOING DOWN TO THE TOP OF THE NEXT PAGE, IT'S THE LEAD CERTIFICATION.
IT SAYS SUBSTANTIALLY EQUIVALENT TO THESE GOLDEN PLATINUM CERTIFICATIONS.
BUT LEAD CERTIFICATION DOESN'T.
THE SITE SELECTION PART OF IT IS VERY, YOU KNOW, IT'S A SMALL COMPONENT.
WE HAVE OTHER COMPONENTS THAT GO INTO THAT LEAD CERTIFICATION THAT DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE EXTERNAL ENVIRONMENT.
IT HAS TO DO WITH BUILDING INTERIORS AND HVAC AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
SO, UM, QUESTION IS, WOULD STAFF BE CONDUCTING THIS SUBSTANTIALLY EQUIVALENT REVIEW? 'CAUSE THEY, IT DOESN'T SAY THEY HAVE TO BE LEAD CERTIFIED.
SO WE CAN ASK FOR ALL THE SIMILAR LEAD CATEGORIES OR JUST THE SITE SELECTION CATEGORIES OR THE LANDSCAPE ONES THAT APPLY TO LANDSCAPING AND STORM DESIGN.
SO IT'S KIND OF A LITTLE VAGUE IN THERE ABOUT HOW THEY WOULD QUALIFY FOR THAT, THAT SIMILAR TO THE LEAD CERTIFICATION.
WELL, I, I WOULD ASSUME ON THE PLANTS AND SUCH THAT THOSE ARE DEFINED TERMS, RIGHT? LIKE LOW WATER CONSUMPTION.
AND, AND AGAIN, TO ME, WHEN YOU START GETTING DOWN THIS ROUTE, AND EVEN TO THAT NEXT ONE, THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE ESSENTIALLY A, A MANUAL THAT GOES WITH IT.
AND WE'RE NOT SPELLING ALL THESE OUT IN THE DEFINITIONS OF THE POLICY.
'CAUSE DEFINITIONS CAN CHANGE PRETTY QUICKLY.
SO THERE'S A MANUAL THAT WOULD, WE CAN REFERENCE TO, THAT'LL HAVE TO BE BUILT UP AT THE SAME TIME.
UM, BUT I DO LIKE HOW IT, IT ENDS WITH, UH, STAFF CAN DETERMINE THE FEE MITIGATION WAIVER BASED UPON MEETING THESE CRITERIA, WHICH WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEM TO MEET THE, YOU KNOW, THE HEART OF IT THERE BEHIND IT.
AND THE WHOLE IDEA IT TO MITIGATE, IF THEY WANT MITIGATION CREDITS, THEY NEED TO DO SOMETHING SUBSTANTIAL FOR IT.
WHICH, YOU KNOW, A ONE SQUARE FOOT AREA
ALRIGHT, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR STAFF ON THIS ITEM? OR, I GUESS WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO, I GUESS, GETTING A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ON THE NEXT ROUND HERE.
ALRIGHT, NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA THEN IS THREE B RESIDENTIAL LANDSCAPING STANDARDS.
SIR, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M GONNA PULL UP THAT SECTION OF THE GDC JUST TO GIVE, UM, THE COMMITTEE THE LANGUAGE OF OUR CURRENT, UH, REQUIREMENT.
AND THEN RESIDENTIAL IS THERE? YEP.
SO, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING MR. CHAIRMAN AND COMMITTEE IS, UM, ONE COUNCIL MEMBER INITIATED THIS ITEM.
UH, WHAT IT'S REALLY MORE SPECIFICALLY REGARDING IS, UM, YOUR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL AND DUPLEX, UH, THE FRONT YARDS, UM, AND THE REQUIREMENT TO HAVE A SOLID, SOLID, UH, COVERING OF TURF.
SO, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AND DUPLEX LOTS, OF COURSE THERE'S A TREE REQUIREMENT TO LARGE CANOPY TREES ON THE PROPERTY.
AT LEAST ONE HAS TO BE IN THE FRONT YARD.
BUT AS YOU GO TO NUMBER TWO, A TWO SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AND DUPLEX YARDS, UH, ADJACENT TO STREETS MUST BE PLANTED WITH A SOLID COVERING OF TURF.
UH, WHICH WE HAVE INTERPRETED AS AS GRASS, UH, SOME TYPE OF, YOU KNOW, LIVING GRASS.
UM, AN APPROVED MEANS OF SOIL EROSION CONTROL IN THE REAR OR SIDE YARDS IS ALSO REQUIRED.
[00:35:01]
THE QUESTION, UH, CAME UP OF DO WE WANT TO EVALUATE THAT JUST IN THE, IN THE SPIRIT OF, YOU KNOW, WATER SAVINGS AND SPRINKLING LAWNS AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS ALLOW OTHER ALTERNATIVES, WHETHER IT'S ARTIFICIAL TURF, WHETHER IT'S ZERO ESCAPING.UH, WE'VE HAD, I THINK ONE
SO, UM, REALLY THAT'S, UM, I'LL JUST KIND OF TURN IT BACK OVER TO THE COMMITTEE AND SEE WHAT KIND OF, UH, INFORMATION YOU'D LIKE.
IF YOU WANT SOME INFORMATION BROUGHT BACK OR, UM, WANT TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT THIS AND DISCUSS THIS, UM, OR COMMITTEE HAVE ANY COMMENTS? YEAH.
WELL, ON, ON A ONE, I WILL SAY THAT THE, UM, THE WORDING'S A LITTLE CONFUSING.
THERE'S, UM, WORDING IN, IN THE FIRST SENTENCE, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE, IT DOESN'T NEED TO MENTION DUPLEX RESIDENTIAL LOTS IN THE FIRST SENTENCE BECAUSE IT'S THE SECOND SENTENCE THEN CONTRADICTS THAT FIRST SENTENCE.
SO IT'S SAYS TWO LARGE CANOPY TREES REQUIRED IN ALL SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AND DUPLEX, RESIDENTIAL LOTS.
AND THEN THE NEXT LINE SAYS TWO LARGE CANOPY TREES.
IT SAYS ONE IS REQUIRED TO BE IN THE FRONT YARD.
THEN THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE SAYS, IF IT'S A DUPLEX, THEY'RE BOTH REQUIRED TO BE IN THE FRONT YARD.
SO YOU DON'T NEED ANY DIMENSION OF DUPLEX IN THE FIRST SENTENCE AT ALL.
UM, BUT AS FAR AS ON THE SECOND PART, SOLID COVERING OF TURF.
YEAH, I MEAN I'VE, I CAN TELL YOU THERE'RE I'VE GOT, I WON'T SAY NEIGHBORS OF MINE, SO NOBODY GO AND DRIVE AROUND MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
BUT
UM, YEAH, I MEAN HONESTLY, I THINK ANYTHING THAT'S, THAT'S AESTHETIC AND PROVIDES THE UTILITY OF, SO, UH, YOU KNOW, EROSION CONTROL I THINK SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, BUT I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S TASTES, BUT I GOTTA TELL YOU, WHEN PEOPLE PUT THE, THE WEEDS IN THEIR FRONT YARD, CALL IT, WHAT DO THEY CALL IT? WILD, WILD, WHATEVER, THAT'S JUST, MAN, IT MIGHT LOOK GOOD THE DAY THEY PUT IT IN, BUT TWO WEEKS LATER FOR THE REST OF ITS LIFE IT LOOKS LIKE A JUNK
SO, BUT THEN AGAIN, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMEONE ELSE'S TASTE ISN'T NECESSARILY MY TASTE.
BUT YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD REQUIRE JUST, UH, JUST NATURAL GRASS.
I THINK WE SHOULD BE A LITTLE MORE, A LITTLE MORE OPEN ON THAT.
JUST A POINT OF STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION INTERPRETATION OF A ONE.
THOSE TWO SENTENCES AREN'T CONTRADICTORY.
THEY ACTUALLY WERE HAD TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF REQUIREMENTS, JUST SO YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND, DUPLEX LOTS ARE PLATTED AS ONE LOT AND NOT TWO.
AND SO THAT'S THE REASON IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
I MEAN POLICY-WISE, Y'ALL, Y'ALL MAY WANNA CHANGE IT, BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW HOW IT'S WRITTEN, IT'S NOT CONTRADICTORY.
MR. MR. CHAIRMAN, IF, IF I COULD ADD, IF I RECALL SOME OF THE, UH, QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP REGARDING THIS WAS ONE FOR, FOR WILD SCAPING NA UH, YOU KNOW, NATIVE WILDFLOWERS IN YOUR FRONT YARD.
AND I THINK THERE WAS ALSO SOME DISCUSSION OR QUESTION, UH, REGARDING, UH, ARTIFICIAL TURF AS A REPLACEMENT, UH, OF TURF.
SO TWO, AM I REMEMBERING THAT CORRECTLY? JUST IN THE ELIMINATION OF, UH, BUILT-IN IRRIGATION IN THE ELIMINATION OF BUILT-IN IRRIGATION.
SO LOT TO UNPACK THERE IN TERMS OF HOW THAT WOULD ACTUALLY, UM, BE MANAGED.
UH, TO YOUR POINT, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE FACE IS, IS WE, WE, WE LOVE AND RECOGNIZE THE VALUE OF OF, OF THOSE ALTERNATIVE TYPE OF PLANT MATERIALS.
WE DON'T FIND THAT THE PUBLIC RECEIVES THEM VERY WELL.
THEY SOMETIMES IN THAT PHASE OF LIFE WHERE THEY AREN'T, THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL PART OF THE BLOOMING SEASON, WHICH IS A COUPLE OF MONTHS A YEAR, UM, WE RECEIVE A LOT OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT HIGH GRASS, WEEDS, WHATEVER.
SO AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S A SEPARATE DISCUSSION OF WHETHER IT'S BENEFICIAL OR NOT.
UM, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO, UM, LAWNS, WE COULD CERTAINLY INVESTIGATE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS OF INCLUDING THAT? WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS OF IN, OF, WE'VE HAD THIS QUESTION BEFORE ABOUT ARTIFICIAL TURF.
CLEARLY IT'S THE LEAST AMOUNT OF WATER YOU COULD POSSIBLY USE.
UM, SOME PLACES ALLOW IT, SOME PLACES DON'T.
UM, SO, AND THEN OF COURSE THE IRRIGATION COMPONENT OF OF THAT DISCUSSION IS INCLUDED IN THE GDC.
IT GOES BACK PROBABLY QUITE SOME TIME AND THERE'S A REASON, I'M SURE IT'S IN THERE.
UM, BUT THAT'S, AS I RECALL, WERE THE THREE MAIN ISSUES THAT WE WERE ASKED TO INVESTIGATE.
IRRIGATION, YOU MENTIONED IRRIGATION.
WE DON'T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT IRRIGATION IN SKEL FAMILY LOTS HERE, AND I DON'T THINK WE REQUIRE IT.
IS THAT YOU WANNA JUMP ON THE MIC BRIA? YEAH, I, IS THAT FURTHER DOWN OR IS THAT WE CAN SEPARATE SEPARATE PORTION OF, IT'S A SEPARATE SECTION.
SO LANDSCAPING IN GENERAL HAS TO BE IRRIGATED MAINTAINED, WELL, MAINTAINED, IRRIGATED.
[00:40:01]
DON'T HAVE THIS SECTION IN FRONT OF ME, BUT IT IS THERE, IT SAYS THAT IF PLANT MATERIAL HAS TO BE IRRIGATED WITH, I'M NOT SURE HOW IT'S WORDED EXACTLY, BUT I CAN LOOK INTO IT FOR SINGLE FAMILY.I CAN THINK OF A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE IRRIGATION SYSTEMS IN THEIR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE BEFORE THE REQUIREMENTS.
BUT I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, I, WELL, I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR REMOVING SOLID, COVERING A TURF.
I HAVE HOUSES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT GROW TOMATOES IN THEIR FRONT YARD AND YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF THE URBAN GARDENING TYPE OF THING.
THIS IS A MONARCH WASTE STATION AND THAT KIND OF THING.
THEY DO A LOT IN THEIR FRONT YARD AND IT'S NOT, IT CERTAINLY STICKS OUT 'CAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE ALL THE OTHER TYPICAL JUST TURF GRASS YARDS THERE.
BUT IT, IT CAN BE NICE AND, UM, I REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM EITHER IF PEOPLE WANNA PUT ARTIFICIAL TURF IN THERE AND THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S UP TO THE PERSONAL HOMEOWNER CHOICE.
I THINK HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS CAN RESTRICT AND MAKE RESTRICTIONS ON THAT RATHER THAN THE CITY DOING IT.
AND I AGREE ABOUT, UM, REMOVING THE, THE TURF.
WHAT, HOWEVER IT'S WORDED SOLID, SOLID COVERING OF TURF, UM, WITH THE IMPLICATION THAT THAT'S NATURAL GRASS.
UM, THIS IS, THIS IS GONNA BE A STICKY ONE, UM, TO NAIL BECAUSE, UM, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CITY IS NOT AN HOA AND SO THE HOMEOWNERS ARE SUBJECT TO WHATEVER EVER WE ALL ALLOW.
THE HOMEOWNERS ARE SUBJECT TO WHATEVER WE ALLOW THEIR NEIGHBORS TO DO.
SO WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T JUST CONSIDER OH, ON A HOA, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN WORK THAT OUT AMONG THEMSELVES.
SO I'M JUST KIND OF SENSITIVE TO CUTTING.
UM, I MEAN I, AT OUR HOUSE WE DON'T, WE HAVE MOSTLY, WE PASSES FOR GRASS, BUT I MEAN OUR, OUR LANDSCAPING IS ALL EDIBLE DELIBERATELY.
IT'S, IT'S A REALLY INTERESTING SOLID COVERING.
UM, MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT EXACTLY FIT OUR OWN THINGS.
UM, I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO SEE A LAUNDRY LIST
YOU KNOW, I KNOW, UM, I HAVE FRIENDS IN, IN OTHER, UH, STATES WHO HAVE YOU GONE TO ARTIFICIAL TURF AND THE PROBLEM IS IT HAS A, A LIFESPAN, IT EVENTUALLY FADES RUNOFF, IT, IT AFFECTS, UH, RUNOFF TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.
IT, AND IT HAS CHEMICALS THAT FLOW FROM IT BECAUSE IT'S MADE WITH MOSTLY PLASTICS.
UM, AND SO THE, IT IT IS, IT HAS DOWNSIDES.
IT MAY BE WATER FRIENDLY, BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY FRIENDLY IN SOME OTHER WAYS.
UM, PEOPLE HAVE USED, UH, SOME OF THESE ARTIFICIAL TURFS AND DOG PARKS AND THEY HAVE HAD A LOT OF BACTERIAL GROWTH, OBVIOUSLY WITH DOGS.
BUT STILL, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO
UM, BECAUSE WE'VE GOTTA GET IT RIGHT OR WE'RE GONNA HAVE, I MEAN I KNOW YOU'RE ALREADY GETTING A, UH, CALLS ABOUT THIS REGULARLY.
UM, WE NEED TO LET PEOPLE USE THE HARDSCAPING LIKE IS ALL OVER ARIZONA AND LOTS OF OTHER STATES.
THERE NEED, THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE.
SO IF I DON'T SEE THIS ONE BEING LIKE SUPER FAST AND EASY, UNFORTUNATELY, BUT I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN SEEING SOME MORE OPTIONS PRESENTED TO PEOPLE.
I MEAN, EVEN IF IT'S A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF YOUR FRONT YARD CAN BE USED FOR, WE DO THAT WITH US.
YOU CAN PAVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF YOUR FRONT YARD.
SO IF WE CAN LET THEM PUT CEMENT DOWN, WHY WOULDN'T WE SAY A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF YOUR FRONT YARD CAN BE A BUTTERFLY GARDEN OR A VEGETABLE GARDEN OR SOMETHING AT A MINIMUM.
SO ANYWAY, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE MYSELF, SO THANK YOU.
'CAUSE I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME CASES OF CITIES THAT HAVE HAD THESE TYPE OF ORDINANCES FOR THESE URBAN GARDENING AND GOT IN TROUBLE WITH RESTRICTIONS.
MAYBE GET SOME GUIDANCE ON THAT AS WELL.
ALL, I DUNNO,
I KNOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE BUSY OVER THERE TYPING AWAY.
NO, BUT I, I, I'VE, I'VE HEARD ABOUT THESE KIND PIECES BEFORE.
[00:45:01]
YEAH.THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN GOING ON AROUND THE COUNTRY.
NOT SO MUCH, UM, IN THE, IN THE METROPLEX, BUT YEAH, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF LAWSUITS OUT THERE RELATED TO URBAN GARDENING AND THEN AND, UM, THE RIGHT TO DO THAT.
SO I'VE SEEN MANY ORDINANCES WHERE EVEN IN CITIES WHERE GARDENING IS BEING PROMOTED BY THE CITY, WHERE THEY RESTRICT 'EM, WHERE THEY CAN'T BE IN THE FRONT YARD, WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE BACKYARD, UM, UM, GENERALLY THERE'S SOME EXCEPTIONS FOR THAT.
UM, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE SOME LAND, UM, THE SIZE, SHAPE AND SLOPE OF THE LAND MAY NOT ALLOW IT IN THE BACK.
SO THERE MAY BE SOME EXCEPTIONS, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, UM, MOST CITIES THAT HAVE THOSE PROVISIONS LIMITED TO THE BACKYARDS BACK AND INSIDE YARDS.
I COULD FORESEE ONE OF THE OBVIOUS CHALLENGES WE MIGHT HAVE, UH, WITH, UNLESS WE DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT IS, IS THE ADMINISTRATION OF IT THROUGH THE CODE ENFORCEMENT.
IT'S GONNA BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE THAT A 12 OR 14 INCH WEEDED OR A 12 OR 14 INCH DESIRABLE ZERO ESCAPE PLANT MATERIAL WOULD BE A A A REAL CHALLENGE TO, YOU KNOW, UNLESS IT HAD A, A SQUARE FOOTAGE MAXIMUM AND MAYBE LIMITED TO A CERTAIN PART OF THE YARD OR HAD SOME KIND OF BORDER OR HAD SOME KIND OF DEMARCATION OF SOME KIND.
WE, WE COULD CERTAINLY RESEARCH IT.
UM, I JUST KNOW FROM A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, PERSONALLY, I LOVE, I LOVE THE IDEA AND, AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT PLAN OPTIONS THAT THAT WOULD DO.
I KNOW WHEN WE HAD THE, THE HERITAGE CROSSING PLAN HERE ON, ON WALNUT, UH, IT WAS DESIGNED VERY SPECIFICALLY AND VERY WELL DESIGNED THAT THERE WAS A, A HOMOGENEOUS NATIVE GRASS IN EACH COMPARTMENT THAT WAS SEPARATED OUT.
AND I THINK, UH, MR. BRADFORD RECEIVED COMPLAINTS ON A DAILY BASIS OF IT AND IT WAS ABSOLUTELY ALL WILD NATIVE GRASSES.
IT WAS NOT WELL RECEIVED AS WE THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE.
WE THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY COOL.
BUSH LIBRARY IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THAT IN SSG, RIGHT? YEP.
THEY GOT A LOT OF, A LOT OF COMPLAINTS FROM THE HIGHLAND PARK CITIZENS ABOUT THEIR NATIVE PRAIRIE GRASS THAT THEY PLANTED ALL THROUGH THE COMPLEX.
AND IT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE BETTER MAINTAINED ONE.
IT'S, IT LOOKS GREAT AS A MATTER OF FACT, BUT I COULD SEE, I COULD SEE WHERE THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE.
BRIAN, WASN'T THERE A, A HOUSE BILL IN THIS LAST SECTION THAT WAS GONNA LIMIT? DID THAT ONE PASS? I BELIEVE IT DID.
SO IT, UH, YEAH, SO IT, IT WAS GONNA LIMIT CITY'S ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO RESTRICT PLANTING VEGETABLES AND WILDFLOWERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
IT'S ONE OF THE SUPER PREEMPT.
IT'S ACTUALLY PART OF ONE OF THE SUPER PREEMPTION, THOSE CHAPTERS.
SO MAYBE THAT SHOULD BE PART OF OUR RESEARCH.
WELL, LOOKS LIKE THERE'S, UH, TWO ITEMS YOU'LL BE BRINGING BACK TO US.
UH, LIKELY AFTER THE BEGINNING OF THE NEW YEAR.
UM, DOES THE COMMITTEE HAVE ANY MORE COMMENTS OR ANYTHING ELSE THEY'D LIKE TO SEE RESEARCHED?
I THINK WE'VE GIVEN YOU GUYS ENOUGH HOMEWORK FOR TODAY, BUT, UM, I APPRECIATE IT.
UH, THAT BEING THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA, THEN WE'LL MOVE TO ADJOURN AT 4 53.