[Development Services Committee on March 18, 2024.]
[00:00:02]
SO IT'S IS IT A HOW DO THEY CONNECT? IS IT BLUETOOTH? I DON'T KNOW.LATER. LOOK AT YOUR BLUETOOTH CONNECTIONS.
YOU GUYS READY? GOOD. YEAH. AND YOU ARE.
MYSELF, I'M DYLAN HEDRICK, THE CHAIRMAN.
WITH ME, I HAVE MAYOR PRO TEM JEFF BASS AND COUNCILWOMAN DEBORAH MORRIS.
DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? MOTION. A MOTION AND A SECOND.
NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS PUBLIC COMMENTS.
SO I'D ASK OUR, OUR SPEAKER, MUSTAFA HAWK TO COME ON UP HERE IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE.
WE'LL GO AHEAD AND TAKE YOUR TESTIMONY NOW.
AND THANK YOU FOR COMING I APPRECIATE THAT.
PERFECT. IS IS IT WORKING? AM I DOING IT RIGHT? OKAY.
PERFECT. THANK YOU GUYS FOR HAVING ME.
I APPRECIATE YOU ALL FOR LETTING ME SPEAK HERE.
IT MEANS A LOT TO ME. AND IT'S.
THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR ME SINCE I JUST CAME.
GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL LAST SEMESTER, LAST YEAR.
SO THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME.
SOMETHING THAT TOUCHES CLOSE TO HOME.
AND IF YOU ALL HAVE KIDS OR HAVE KIDS WHO ARE ENTERING THAT AGE, THIS IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT.
SO LET'S LET'S JUST GET INTO IT.
SO WHO I WHO AM I? WHY AM I HERE SPEAKING TO YOU? SO I'M A CIVIL ENGINEERING STUDENT AT SMU, BUT I'M ALSO STUDYING PUBLIC POLICY, SO I'M GOING TO BE GRADUATING WITH A BS AND A BA.
UNDER DOCTOR SMITH COLLIN, WHO'S A RENOWNED TRANSPORTATION SCHOLAR.
MY FOCUS IS ON INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT POLICY.
AND I ANALYZE FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT.
SO THAT'S MY RESEARCH STICK, AND THAT'S WHAT I DO.
AT SMU, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHO I AM? WHAT I DO? NOTHING LIKE THAT. NO, SIR.
SO LET'S JUST GET STRAIGHT INTO THE TOPIC.
TOBACCO, NICOTINE AND THE ISSUE OF NICOTINE ADDICTION IN TEENAGERS.
AND THE TOPIC OF NICOTINE ADDICTION IN SCHOOLS CAME UP.
JEFF HAS A KID IN HIGH SCHOOL, AND I JUST GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL.
MY YOUNGER BROTHER IS A SENIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL.
STORES THAT SELL TOBACCO ARE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO SCHOOLS.
THOSE STUDENTS TYPICALLY HAVE HIGHER RATES OF ADDICTION, SPECIFICALLY NICOTINE ADDICTION.
SO I HE ASKED ME TO FORWARD SOME OF THOSE STUDIES TO HIM.
SO THE FIRST STUDY, AND PROBABLY THE ONE THAT KIND OF SPIRALED THIS WHOLE RESEARCH THING INTO LOOKING INTO TOBACCO RETAIL OUTLET DENSITY AND TEEN SMOKING WAS THIS STUDY THAT WAS CONDUCTED IN VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA.
AND THERE WAS A POSITIVE ASSOCIATION BETWEEN TOBACCO RETAIL DENSITY AND CIGARET CONSUMPTION.
SO THIS IS NOT TOO FAR FROM HOME.
AND THIS STUDY WAS TO INVESTIGATE HOW TOBACCO OUTLET DENSITY IN CIGARET ADVERTISING.
THEY ADD THAT ON TO ADDED ADDED THAT ON TO THEIR NEAR HIGH SCHOOLS AFFECTED STUDENT SMOKING RATES.
SO WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT AND WHAT THE STUDY LOOKED AT WAS WHEN GAS STATIONS ADVERTISE HOW LOW THEIR PRICES ARE FOR THEIR CARTONS, WE MIGHT HAVE SEEN LIKE $40 PER CARTON OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BEING CONSIDERED LOW, WHICH I THINK IS RIDICULOUS.
BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY MEAN BY ADVERTISING.
[00:05:04]
AND THIS STUDY WENT AS FAR AS TO SUGGEST POLICY INTERVENTIONS LIKE ZONING RESTRICTIONS AND LIMITING TOBACCO OUTLET DENSITY NEAR SCHOOLS.SO THERE WAS A CULMINATION DONE OF ALL OF THESE.
STUDIES. THERE WAS A LITERATURE REVIEW THAT WAS PUBLISHED A LITTLE WHILE AGO IN AROUND 2017, I WANT TO SAY, AND IT KIND OF ANALYZED 70 OF THESE STUDIES THAT WE JUST LOOKED AT TWO OF THEM, AND THEY CONCLUDED THAT EXISTING EVIDENCE SUGGESTS THAT REDUCING THE DENSITY OF TOBACCO RETAIL OUTLETS NEAR YOUTHS HOMES CAN DECREASE YOUTH SMOKING RATES. AND JUST TO EXPAND ON THAT, WHERE DO YOUTHS SPEND MOST OF THEIR TIME OUTSIDE OF THE HOME SCHOOL? SO REDUCING THE DENSITY OF TOBACCO RETAIL OUTLETS NEAR SCHOOLS CAN ALSO DECREASE YOUTH SMOKING RATES.
SO A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE TODAY.
KIDS AREN'T SMOKING CIGARETS TODAY, WHICH IS.
ALL RIGHT. BUT WE NOW SEE AN INCREASE IN VAPING.
37% OF 12TH GRADERS HAVE VAPED IN THE PAST YEAR.
JUST A LITTLE BIT OF NICOTINE GOES A LONG WAY.
AND NICOTINE IS ONE OF THE MOST ADDICTIVE SUBSTANCES ON THE EARTH, WHICH IS WHY IT'S SO POPULAR.
IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR CENTURIES.
NICOTINE. SO THIS WILL ONLY GET WORSE AS KIDS AGE INTO ADULTHOOD.
THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE FULLY FORMED BRAINS YET.
SO AT 18, IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO GO AWAY FOR A WHILE.
AND THIS IS NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT'S AFFECTING HIGH SCHOOLERS ON THE AGENDA.
I SAID I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT HIGH SCHOOL, BUT 17% OF EIGHTH GRADERS HAVE ALSO VAPED, SO THAT'S ALMOST 1 IN 10 KIDS OR ALMOST 2 IN 10 KIDS ARE VAPING. SO THINK ABOUT THAT.
THAT'S LIKE IF YOU WERE IN AN AVERAGE MIDDLE SCHOOL CLASSROOM OF 25 KIDS, 1 IN 10 ARE VAPING.
SO THAT MEANS YOU CAN PROBABLY FIND 2 TO 3 KIDS IN THAT CLASSROOM WHO HAVE VAPED IN THE PAST YEAR.
IN EIGHTH GRADE, WHEN I WAS IN EIGHTH GRADE, I WAS STILL PLAYING MINECRAFT.
IT'S QUITE SAD WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
AND MOST OF THESE KIDS, WHAT DO THEY SAY THEY'RE VAPING? IF YOU LOOK, IT'S VERY CONCERNING ACTUALLY, BUT 25% THINK THEY'RE JUST VAPING FLAVORING.
YOU HAVE THE SURGEON GENERAL SAYING YOU HAVE TO PUT A LITTLE THING AT THE BOTTOM SAYING THIS IS AN ADDICTIVE CHEMICAL, BUT THE REST OF THE POSTER IS ALL ABOUT HOW IT HAS BUBBLEGUM IN IT. SO THAT'S ALSO QUITE ALARMING THAT TEENS THINK THEY'RE JUST VAPING FLAVORING.
ONLY 30% THINK THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY VAPING NICOTINE.
AND THEN AMONG STUDENTS WHO DO VAPE, 1 IN 4 VAPE DAILY.
SO JUST SAID TWO OUT OF TEN EIGHTH GRADERS HAVE VAPED IN THE PAST YEAR, AND 1 IN 4 OF THOSE HAVE VAPE DAILY. THAT CLASSIFIES AS ADDICTION.
AND AGAIN, THESE STUDENTS ARE YOUNG.
IT LITTLE THINGS AT THAT AGE CAN MAKE AN IMPRESSION ON THEM THAT LAST THEM THROUGH ADULTHOOD.
THIS CAN HAVE A SERIOUS EFFECT ON THEIR DEVELOPMENTAL HEALTH.
AND THEN WE CAN SEE HERE NINE OUT OF TEN ARE FLAVORED PRODUCTS, COTTON CANDY, WHATEVER.
YOU KNOW 56.7% OF OF THEM ARE ELF BARS.
HAVE YOU ALL EVER SEEN THE ELF BARS BEFORE? YOU ALL KNOW WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.
IN FACT, I JUST CAME FROM UNIVERSITY.
SO YOU USE THEM, YOU THROW THEM AWAY, YOU PUT THEM ON THE SIDEWALK.
YOU NEVER THINK ABOUT IT AGAIN.
SO A LITTLE WHILE AGO, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY BANNED FLAVORED JUUL PODS.
THESE LITTLE THINGS THAT YOU PUT INSIDE OF YOUR JUUL THAT CONTAIN THE NICOTINE.
BUT THESE ONLY APPLIED TO THE PODS.
THEY DIDN'T APPLY TO DISPOSABLE VAPES.
AND NOW, LIKE WE SHOWED EARLIER, 56.7% OF OF STUDENTS WHO'VE USED E-CIGARETTES SMOKE ELF BARS.
SO WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT THIS? IT'S CLEARLY A PROBLEM AND IT'S NOT GOING TO GO AWAY ANYTIME SOON.
SO HOW DO WE DEAL WITH IT? WELL, ONE, WE CAN BAN NICOTINE SALES WITHIN SCHOOL LIMITS OR NEAR SCHOOLS, LIMIT NICOTINE SALES NEAR SCHOOLS, ENFORCE EXISTING NICOTINE SALES LAWS.
[00:10:03]
YOU CAN YOU HAVE TO BE 21 TO BUY NICOTINE PRODUCTS, CIGARETS, VAPES, WHATEVER.OR PUT ORDINANCES IN PLACE THAT CAN LIMIT WHEN NICOTINE CAN BE SOLD IN RELATION TO SCHOOL HOURS.
SO WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? WELL, THERE'S SOME PRECEDENTS TO SUGGEST THIS.
CITIES IN TEXAS AND OUTSIDE OF TEXAS HAVE BANNED WHEN YOU CAN BUY LIQUOR OR HARD LIQUOR OR SPIRITS.
I THINK THERE'S LIKE ONE CITY THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T BUY HARD SPIRITS OR LIQUOR AFTER 10 P.M.
SOME BAN ALCOHOL DRINK ON SUNDAY.
SO THERE'S SOME PRECEDENCE FOR THIS.
AND THEN WHEN WE THINK ABOUT HOW FAR THIS BAN WILL SPREAD, THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS AND THE AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION HAVE AGREED THAT AMERICANS WILL NOT WALK MORE THAN 1.65 MILES TO GET SOMETHING THAT'S WALKING DISTANCE.
SO WHEN WE'RE THINKING EIGHTH GRADERS, PEOPLE WHO CAN'T DRIVE YET, PEOPLE UNDER 16.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WALK MORE THAN 1.65 MILES TO GET SOMETHING.
THIS IS THE 1.65 MILES NUMBER IS A VERY BROAD GENERALIZATION OF THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES.
AND ALSO TO CONSIDER THAT THESE ARE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS THEY MIGHT NOT WALK AS FAR.
THEY MIGHT WALK MORE BECAUSE THEY'RE MORE ACTIVE.
THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED ABOUT HOW FAR WILL AMERICAN TEENAGERS WALK TO GET A VAPE? BUT THE EXISTING EVIDENCE SUGGESTS 1.65 MILES.
SO WHAT WOULD ENFORCEMENT OF EXISTING LAWS LOOK LIKE? SOME IDEAS THAT HAVE BEEN THROWN AROUND PARENT GROUPS THAT I'VE HEARD REQUIRE OFFICERS TO BE STATIONED NEAR SCHOOLS, IN NICOTINE, SELLING STORES.
THERE'S SOME EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT JUST HAVING AN OFFICER PRESENCE THERE WILL LIMIT ANY ATTEMPT TO BUY NICOTINE PRODUCTS FROM FROM UNDERAGE, YOU KNOW, PATRONS MANDATED ID CHECKING BY OFFICERS.
OFFICERS ARE ALLOWED TO CHECK ID FOR ANY REASON, EVEN IF THEY DON'T SUSPECT A CRIME.
AND IT'S QUITE A CONTROVERSIAL ONE, BUT IT, IT IS SOMETHING THAT COULD WORK.
AND AGAIN, SOME PARENTS ARE OKAY WITH IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THEIR KIDS VAPING AT ALL.
AND THEY WILL GO TO A LOT OF LENGTHS TO PREVENT IT.
AND THEN LET'S THIS ONE SEEMS THE MOST REALISTIC TO ME.
ORDINANCES ON WHEN NICOTINE CAN BE SOLD.
BUT AGAIN, THIS IS VERY BROAD GENERALIZATION.
A STUDY SHOULD BE CONDUCTED TO CONFIRM WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS TRUE.
AND THIS IS WHERE I CAN COME IN AS AN SMU STUDENT.
SMU IS TRYING TO BECOME A TIER ONE RESEARCH UNIVERSITY.
SO THEY HAVE A LOT OF FUNDING FOR RESEARCH.
AND THEY'RE TRYING TO INVEST IN MORE RESEARCH, ESPECIALLY IN THE DFW AREA.
SO RESEARCH CAN BE CONDUCTED TO FIGURE OUT WHERE DO STUDENTS GO AFTER SCHOOL, HOW WHAT'S THE AVERAGE WALKING DISTANCE OF STUDENTS FOR A TRIP, AND WHERE ARE STUDENTS GOING TO BUY NICOTINE, OR WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO BUY THINGS AFTER SCHOOL IN GENERAL? AND THERE'S A LOT OF FUNDING THAT SMU HAS TO DO THIS TYPE OF RESEARCH.
SO WHAT DO WE DO NOW? NOW THAT I'VE PRESENTED ALL THIS INFORMATION FOR YOU, MAYBE HOPEFULLY HAVE SOME GEARS TURNING IN THE BACK OF YOUR HEADS, WHAT DO WE DO NOW? WELL, WE CAN CRAFT A RESEARCH PROPOSAL, THINK ABOUT WHAT TYPES OF THINGS WE SHOULD STUDY.
WHAT TYPES OF THINGS SHOULD WE LOOK AT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PLANNING ACCORDINGLY? WE CAN IDENTIFY SOME LEGAL PRECEDENTS TO LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS FEASIBLE, WHAT IS FEASIBLE FOR CITIES TO DO? WE CAN START DRAFTING ORDINANCES AND IMPLEMENTING THEM, AND WE CAN MAYBE START IMPLEMENTING SOME HIGHER ENFORCEMENT OF THE EXISTING LAWS THAT WE HAVE.
I WANT TO SEE IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT I HAVE.
THIS IS A VERY SMALL SNIPPET OF MY RESEARCH AND WHAT I DO AT SMU.
AND I KNOW THE COMMITTEE CERTAINLY HAS SOME QUESTIONS, BUT AS A CIVIL ENGINEER, CIVIL ENGINEER MYSELF, AND AS SOMEONE WHO'S INVOLVED IN CRAFTING PUBLIC POLICY, I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK YOU'VE DONE.
BUT I WANT TO OPEN IT UP TO THE THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS FIRST BEFORE I SAY PLEASE.
[00:15:01]
YEAH. SO I'M PRETTY SURE THE AUSTRALIAN STUDY WAS CONDUCTED IN 2012 AND THE CALIFORNIA STUDY WAS PUBLISHED IN, I THINK, 2017.SO LET ME JUST DOUBLE CHECK THAT.
ACTUALLY, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
YEAH. SO THE AUSTRALIA ONE WAS PUBLISHED IN.
2013, SO A LITTLE SOONER AND THE CALIFORNIA ONE WAS PUBLISHED IN 2008. 2008 SO THAT ONE'S A LITTLE BIT OLDER.
AND THOSE TWO I WILL WANT TO EMPHASIZE THEY FOCUS ON TOBACCO AND CIGARETS, NOT VAPES.
THAT'S KIND OF A NEW THING THAT HASN'T BEEN STUDIED AS MUCH.
SURE. I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
FULL DISCLOSURE I'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH THIS PRESENTATION WITH MUSTAFA SATURDAY, SO YEAH, GREAT.
REALLY APPRECIATE YOU COMING HERE AND TALKING TO US ABOUT IT.
WELL, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH SMU.
MY WIFE'S A PROFESSOR THERE AS WELL.
AND HOPEFULLY SOME OF THAT RESEARCH MONEY CAN GO TO HER, HER DEPARTMENT AS WELL.
AND THE MATH DEPARTMENT, MAYBE WE'LL HAVE HER AS YOU WORK THROUGH YOUR STUDIES.
AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE INVOLVED IN PUBLIC POLICY, THIS IS GREAT.
YEAH. THANK YOU, THANK YOU MA'AM.
PERFECT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
I BELIEVE WE JUST HEARD THE PRESENTATION.
OKAY. STAFF DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING FOR US.
OKAY. I WAS UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WOULD.
WELL, YOU KNOW ME. I CAN ALWAYS SPEAK.
SO I CAN. I CAN DO A BRIEF HIGH LEVEL OF VERY HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW OF SOME LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS IN REGARD TO WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST APPROACH FROM THE CITY TO IF THE COUNCIL WAS WILLING OR DESIRED TO MOVE TOWARD CREATING ZONES WITHIN THE CITY WHERE BOTH WHERE NICOTINE NICOTINE SALES COULD BE RESTRICTED.
SPECIFICALLY AROUND SCHOOLS THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT APPROACHES, REALLY.
WHAT YOU MAINLY SEE AROUND THE COUNTRY IS ZONING.
THE DISADVANTAGE OF THE ZONING APPROACH IS, IS IT'S REALLY IF YOU'RE CURRENTLY SELLING TOBACCO PRODUCTS OR VAPING DEVICES OR NICOTINE PRODUCTS YOU'RE GOING TO BE WHAT IN COMMON LANGUAGE IS CALLED GRANDFATHERED.
IT'S VESTED RIGHTS IS WHAT IT IS.
OVER TIME, YOU'LL SEE THAT THE AMOUNT OF THE VOLUME OF NICOTINE BEING SOLD AROUND SCHOOLS WILL DROP FROM YEAR TO YEAR TO YEAR AS STORES CLOSE TEMPORARILY OR PERMANENTLY.
AND THEY LOSE THAT VESTED RIGHT TO DO IT.
THE SO THAT'S THE DISADVANTAGE OF IT.
THE ADVANTAGE OF IT IS, IS THERE'S A LOT LESS LEGAL RISK IN DOING IT THAT WAY.
THE THE LAW IS PRETTY WELL ESTABLISHED IN THAT REGARD IS, YES, WE HAVE A RIGHT TO THERE ARE NO VESTED RIGHTS FROM PROPERTY OWNERS TO FUTURE USE OF PROPERTY.
THEY DON'T GET TO CLAIM A RIGHT TO FUTURE ZONING.
AND SO THAT'S THE ADVANTAGE OF THE REZONING.
NOW, THE RISK ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, THE ADVANTAGE OF IT IS IT CAN BE IMMEDIATE AND REAL.
WHEN I SAY IMMEDIATE, WHATEVER YOU'RE WHATEVER THE STATE IN WHICH IT WAS PASSED, WHATEVER POSTING REQUIREMENTS THEY HAVE IN PUBLICATION THAT REQUIRE REQUIREMENTS THEY HAVE FOR CRIMINAL STATUTES WOULD APPLY, JUST LIKE HERE IN TEXAS.
BUT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY IT WOULD APPLY.
THE DISADVANTAGE IS THERE'S SOME REAL LEGAL RISK IN THAT IS PEOPLE SAYING THAT YOU'RE HAVING A REGULATORY TAKING AND I THINK BECAUSE IT'S HEALTH AND SAFETY, WE CAN CERTAINLY.
WE HAVE A RATIONAL BASIS AS A LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO PASS SUCH AN ORDINANCE.
[00:20:04]
AND THIS ORDINANCE, THIS TYPE OF ORDINANCE DOES NOT FALL WITHIN THE SUPER PREEMPTION BILL.I CHECKED ON THAT THIS AFTERNOON JUST TO MAKE SURE.
AND SURE ENOUGH, IT WAS NOT ONE OF THE STATUTES THAT'S LISTED UNDER THE SUPER PREEMPTION BILL.
SO WE CERTAINLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, ALTHOUGH THE STATE COULD TAKE THAT FROM US NEXT SESSION.
DEPENDING ON HOW BIG THE TOBACCO AND NICOTINE LOBBYING EFFORT IS, IT COULD CERTAINLY BE TAKEN AWAY.
OR WE COULD DO A COMBINATION OF BOTH.
AND WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE IS YOU ZONE IT OUT TO TAKE CARE OF THE FUTURE USES.
SO YEAR BY YEAR BY YEAR, THOSE WOULD BE DWINDLING.
AND SOME OF THAT COULD BE TIME HE MENTIONED A TIMING ORDINANCE WHERE YOU SAY YOU CAN'T SELL NICOTINE PRODUCTS BETWEEN THE HOURS OF SUCH AND SUCH ON SCHOOL DAYS WHEN SCHOOL IS IN SESSION? IT COULD BE JUST LIMITING IT TO VAPING PRODUCTS AND NOT TOBACCO PRODUCTS.
AND THE ADVANTAGE OF DOING IT THAT WAY.
AND WHAT I'M THINKING IN TERMS OF THAT IS AND I HAVEN'T SEEN ANOTHER CITY DO THIS, IT WAS JUST THE IDEAS I WAS THINKING ABOUT ON A VERY LONG PLANE RIDE LAST WEEK IS FOR THE STORES THAT HAVE SET UP SHOP, NAMELY THE TOBACCO STORES RIGHT ACROSS FROM SCHOOLS.
AND BY THE WAY, THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY'RE SETTING UP ACROSS FROM SCHOOLS.
BUT FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY AND ONLY AND MOSTLY JUST SELLING TOBACCO PRODUCTS OR NICOTINE PRODUCTS THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO REGULATE THEM WITHOUT DOING A TOTAL TAKING, BUT NOT DOING SO MUCH, BUT DOING A PARTIAL TAKING, WHICH REALLY THE SUPREME COURT'S ON OUR SIDE WHEN WE DO PARTIAL TAKINGS. I MEAN, AS LONG AS WE DON'T STRIP THEM OF ALL ECONOMIC VALUE, THEN THE SUPREME COURT HAS SAID THAT WE WERE WELL WITHIN OUR RIGHTS TO DO THOSE TYPE OF REGULATIONS.
STILL A RISK, THOUGH. THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE WE'RE GOING TO BE THAT WE COULD GET SUED.
JUST KEEP IN MIND THERE IS A LOT OF THERE'LL BE A LOT OF POLITICAL BLOWBACK.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS NOT A REASON NOT TO DO IT.
I'M JUST JUST TELLING YOU, I THINK Y'ALL ARE AWARE WE'LL HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE SHOWING.
PLOT, A BUSINESS OWNER SHOWING UP AT THE MICROPHONE AND IN PUBLIC HEARINGS TO DISCUSS THIS.
SO THAT'S KIND OF THE DISADVANTAGE, AGAIN, OF DOING THE HEALTH AND SAFETY APPROACH.
OKAY. CAN YOU SPEAK TO WHAT OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS ARE SURROUNDING THE SALE OF OFF PREMISE ALCOHOL? OFF PREMISE. OKAY, SO OFF PREMISE ALCOHOL, IT'S REALLY.
IT'S JUST BEER AND WINE AND GARLAND.
THEY THE ONLY THING WE HAVE, WE HAVE A RIGHT TO REALLY REGULATE WITH THE ALCOHOL.
MOST OF IT'S DONE BY STATE LAW AND TABC RULES AND REGULATIONS.
THE ONLY THING WE REALLY HAVE A RIGHT TO REGULATE IN THE CITY IS LOCATION.
AND BY ZONING AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE IN A ZONING DISTRICT THAT ALLOWS IT AND WITHIN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FEET FROM SCHOOLS, AND I BELIEVE IT'S 500FT FROM SCHOOLS, IT MAY BE 300FT WILL PROBABLY ACTUALLY HAS THE RULE NUMBER THERE.
OKAY. ALCOHOL SELLING OR SERVING BUSINESSES.
PROPERTY LINE FROM THAT PROPERTY TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL.
AND CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE CAPTURED IN THAT AS WELL.
SO. MOST OF THE ORDINANCES I'VE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT IN THERE I DIDN'T FIND ANY IN TEXAS, BUT THE MOST OF THE ONES I'VE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ARE 1000FT FROM SCHOOLS.
SO, SO IT'S A LITTLE LONGER THAN THE 300FT THAT WE DO FOR ALCOHOL SALES.
THE BEER AND WINE SALES IN GARLAND.
ARE YOU DONE, MAYOR PRO TEM? DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? NO.
YEAH. IT IS AN INTERESTING APPROACH THAT YOU'RE MENTIONING, LEAVING TOBACCO SALES ALONE AND GOING AFTER VAPING, BECAUSE VAPING IS BY FAR AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE, THE MOST POPULAR.
AND I WOULD NOT MIND THE, THE POLITICAL BLOWBACK.
I HAVE ACTUALLY KNOWN SOME YOUNG PEOPLE WHO'VE COME TO GREAT HARM.
[00:25:02]
OKAY, I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE.THAT'S SENATE BILL 55, WHICH PASSED IN 2019.
SO IF WE CAN'T SELL IT TO ANYONE UNDER 21, WHICH OUR SPEAKER TALKED ABOUT, WHO IS LARGELY THE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS AND THEY CAN'T HAVE THEM ON CAMPUSES, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE NEED TO HAVE MORE ENFORCEMENT ON THOSE TWO ITEMS. I WOULD RATHER HAVE THAT FIRST THAN WE TRY TO GO THROUGH THIS LEGAL ASPECTS OF TRYING TO FIGHT AND HAVE NEW ZONING AND REGULATIONS AND, AND HEALTH CODE, THAT SORT OF THING FIRST. BUT THAT'S KIND OF MY FIRST THOUGHT ON THIS.
I KNOW THE SPEAKER MENTIONED HAVING OFFICERS THERE AT THE STORES.
BUT, YOU KNOW IT'S REALLY UP TO THE STATE CONTROLLER.
COMING SOUTH ON LAVON TO CITY HALL.
IT WAS UP THERE, SO IT'S NICE TO SEE THAT, BUT TO ME, IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF ENFORCEMENT FIRST.
AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE ANY MORE RESEARCH.
MAYBE THAT OUR SPEAKER DOES LATER, YOU KNOW, ABOUT WALKING DISTANCES AND THAT SORT OF THING.
BUT TO ME, IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF ENFORCEMENT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE REGULATIONS ALREADY IN PLACE.
MR. CHAIR THERE'S ONE OTHER ITEM THAT I THINK THE COMMITTEE MAY FIND OF INTEREST, AND THAT IS THERE'S A A THIRD APPROACH, A LESS AGGRESSIVE APPROACH, AND THAT IS THE REGULATION OF BECAUSE SOME OF THESE STUDIES THAT I READ NOT ONLY TALKED ABOUT THE SALE OF ALCOHOL OR NOT ALCOHOL, THE SALE OF TOBACCO AND NICOTINE PRODUCTS, BUT ALSO THE MARKETING OF TOBACCO AND NICOTINE PRODUCTS AT STORES WITHIN THAT THOUSAND FEET OR 1500 FEET.
AND SO A LESS AGGRESSIVE APPROACH WOULD BE TO REGULATE THE ADVERTISING OF ALCOHOL, NOT ALCOHOL.
ALCOHOL IS FINE, TOO OF TOBACCO AND NICOTINE PRODUCTS WITHIN A CERTAIN AREA OF THE SCHOOL.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER APPROACH THAT YOU CAN USE.
AND THOSE STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT THAT HAS ACTUALLY IMPACTED USE OF THOSE PRODUCTS.
FOR THAT, THEY CAN HAVE A SIGN THEY CAN'T HAVE A SIGN OUTWARD FACING.
THEY CAN HAVE IT ON THE WINDOW OF THEIR BUILDING ON THE INSIDE, BUT THEY CAN'T HAVE IT.
OUTDOOR ADVERTISING. I KNEW THAT WAS A GREAT IDEA.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE I GOT IT FROM.
THERE YOU GO. IT'S RIGHT. IT'S ONE OF THE PROVISIONS OF THAT LAW ALREADY.
SO THAT'S ALREADY IN PLACE. YEAH.
BUT THEN I GOT TO THINKING, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THIS IS ABOUT CHILDREN.
THIS ISN'T PEOPLE WHO ARE OF THE AGE OF MAJORITY AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.
THIS IS ABOUT CHILDREN WHOSE BRAINS AREN'T FULLY DEVELOPED AND THEY ARE MINOR.
THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS PER SE.
AND THE THE WAY WE WOULD CURRENTLY REGULATE IT WOULD BE WOULDN'T DIRECTLY AFFECT THE CHILDREN.
RIGHT. IT'S AFFECTING A CLERK AT A CONVENIENCE STORE.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT MORE REGULAR, MORE ENFORCEMENT ON THAT IS GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
I THINK THE PROBLEM IS ON THE OTHER SIDE.
SO THAT'S WHY I THINK THAT WE WOULD BENEFIT BY HAVING SOME, YOU KNOW, SOME MORE CONTROLS OVER THIS.
AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THE SEPARATION BETWEEN TOBACCO AND VAPING, I'M ALL FOR THAT, TOO.
BUT LOOKING TO THE FUTURE, I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT THE NEXT THING IS AS WELL.
LIKE JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, THERE'S A NEW PRODUCT KIDS ARE USING NOW.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE IT, BUT IT'S SPELLED Z Y N.
IT'S A ZINE, IS A BRAND OF NICOTINE POUCHES SOLD IN SMALL CANS.
AND THAT'S LIKE THE NEXT THING THAT KIDS ARE USING.
IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE NEXT ONE POPULAR AFTER VAPING.
SO I THINK IF WE DO SOMETHING, WE DON'T NEED TO BE EXTREMELY RESTRICTIVE ON WHAT WE'RE DOING.
WE NEED TO PREPARE FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S NEXT AS WELL.
OKAY. THANK YOU. THIS IS THEN THE QUESTION BE WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? YES. YOU MENTIONED YOU DON'T LIKE REGULATIONS, BUT THEN WE NEED.
DO SOMETHING ABOUT REGULATING IT.
[00:30:01]
WELL. I KNOW THIS COMMITTEE WILL.WE CONSIDER CHANGES THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT TO OUR CITY ORDINANCES.
I WOULD ASK, WHAT WOULD THAT WHAT FORM WOULD THAT TAKE IF WE'RE GOING TO PROPOSE SOMETHING AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW PERSONALLY, I LIKE THE YOU KNOW, I LIKE THE IDEA OF GOING THROUGH ZONING, BUT WITH, WITH YOU KNOW, MAINTAINING VESTED RIGHTS FOR THOSE WHO DO.
BECAUSE AND THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE TALKED WITH BRIAN ABOUT BEFORE, TOO, IF WE IF WE TRIED TO DO JUST ORDINANCE ACROSS THE BOARD, I MEAN, WE'RE JUST GOING TO OPEN OURSELVES UP TO LAWSUITS. BUT I DO LIKE I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF ZONING WITH VESTED RIGHTS AND THEN USING THE ORDINANCE.
JUST TO LIMIT WHETHER IT BE VAPE SALES OR WHETHER IT BE TIME LIMITS AROUND SCHOOL HOURS.
THAT THAT'S I THINK THAT WOULD WORK.
NOW BACK QUESTION FOR ATTORNEY.
IF ZONING, CAN WE ZONE HOURS OF OPERATION? SURE. YOU COULD DO AN SUP.
YOU COULD REQUIRE SUP FOR RETAIL SALES.
WHO WANT TO SELL CIGARETS OR TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND VAPING DEVICES? AND AS A PART OF THE CONDITION OF THAT, WITHIN 1500 FEET OR 1000FT OF A SCHOOL.
FROM PROPERTY LINE TO PROPERTY LINE.
YEP. I MEAN, I'M, I'M WILLING TO ENTERTAIN SOMETHING LIKE THAT IF WE WANT TO.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE DONE IN OTHER PLACES, KIND OF THE AUTO SALES.
WE'VE, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THEM VESTED RIGHTS.
AND THEN WE'RE TRYING TO REGULATE THAT AS THEY THAT TURN OVER ESSENTIALLY.
I'D LIKE TO KNOW A SCOPE LIKE SIZE OF THE PROBLEM.
HOW DO WE KNOW HOW MANY RETAILERS SELL VAPES IN THE CITY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? OR, YOU KNOW, 1000FT FROM SCHOOL? I IMAGINE IF YOU GO 1000FT FROM SCHOOLS, IT'S GOING TO COVER QUITE A BIT OF AREA BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF SCHOOLS IN OUR CITY.
SO, BRIAN, AS FAR AS ALLOWING LIKE TOBACCO SALES TO, TO REMAIN.
AND AND HAVING IT'S PROBABLY PRONOUNCED SIN.
IF WE LIMITED IT TO NICOTINE SALES, THAT WOULD CATCH TOBACCO AS WELL.
SO THAT WOULD MAKE THAT IMPRACTICAL.
AS FAR AS THE APPROACH YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT TAKING.
NOT NECESSARILY, I GUESS, BECAUSE MY APPROACH.
WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE COUNCIL IS TRYING TO REGULATE.
IF YOU'RE ONLY TRYING TO REGULATE THE E-CIGARETTES AND THE VAPING DEVICES, THEN YES, IT WOULD BE IMPRACTICAL. BUT IF YOU'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE BOTH TOBACCO AND VAPING DEVICES IN THE E-CIGARETTES AND THAT KIND OF THING, JUST THE NICOTINE, IT WOULD CAPTURE ALL OF IT.
YOU WOULD JUST DO A, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE A RETAIL OPERATION OR ANY BUSINESS AND YOU'RE SELLING TOBACCO OR VAPING PRODUCTS, THEN NICOTINE PRODUCTS WILL SAY THEN AND YOU'RE WITHIN 1000FT OF SCHOOLS AND YOU NEED AN SUV TO DO THAT.
AND THAT WOULD BE WITH TIME LIMITS.
YES, THAT WE WOULD. YOU COULD, IF THAT'S WHAT Y'ALL WANTED TO DO.
ALL RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT THAT STRIKES ME AS PROBABLY A BETTER LONG TERM PLAN IS IF WE LINK IT TO NICOTINE, THEN THAT THAT WOULD CAPTURE ALL THESE NEW THINGS ROLLING INTO WITHOUT HAVING TO CONSTANTLY CHANGE AND ADD.
AND THERE'S GOING TO BE NEW THINGS FOREVER.
YEP. ANYWAY, YEAH, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING THAT AND AND SEEING THAT MOVE FORWARD AND SEEING US HAVE A FUTURE PATHWAY, EVEN IF IT'S GRADUAL.
IF IT HAS WORKED IN THE PAST TO GRADUALLY BRING THE NUMBERS DOWN, THAT'S BETTER THAN DOING NOTHING.
ALL RIGHT THEN. IF WE'RE IN AGREEMENT, THEN WE CAN HAVE STAFF KIND OF DO A LITTLE WORK.
COME BACK WITH WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
KIND OF A MAYBE A DRAFT ORDINANCE OR SOMETHING, WHAT THAT FORM MIGHT TAKE.
AND THEN I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HOW I'M GOING TO DO MORE RESEARCH AS WELL.
THAT'S PROBABLY A PRETTY BIG I WOULD THAT'S WHY I'M GOING TO DO SOME MYSELF AS WELL ON THAT PART.
[00:35:01]
YEAH. WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF SCHOOLS, RIGHT.YEAH. I MEAN LIMITED TO HIGH SCHOOLS.
I DID SEE A PRESENTATION TO FIX EIGHTH GRADERS AS WELL.
BUT I THINK IF WE FOCUS ON HIGH SCHOOL PROBLEM, WOULD THAT BE OUR AREAS AROUND HIGH SCHOOLS FIRST? I THINK WE COULD START THERE.
OKAY. THEN WE'LL GO WITH THAT.
WELL IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS TOPIC THEN.
WELL THEN AT 435 WE ARE ADJOURNED.
THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.