* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. IN AND READY TO GO. [00:00:01] YOU PRESS THE ON BUTTON AND MAKE [ NOTICE OF MEETING CITY OF GARLAND, TEXAS COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE Work Session Room of City Hall 200 N. Fifth Street Garland, Texas October 24, 2024 at 10:00 a.m. A meeting of the Community Services Committee of the City of Garland, Texas will be held at the aforementioned location, date, and time to discuss and consider the following agenda items. NOTICE: The committee may recess from the open session and convene in a closed executive session if the discussion of any of the listed agenda items concerns attorney/client communication, including pending/contemplated litigation, settlement offer(s), and matters concerning privileged and unprivileged client information deemed confidential by Rule 1.05 of the Texas Disciplinary Rules of Professional Conduct. Sec. 551.071, Tex. Gov't Code.] IT WORK. THAT'S FUNNY. I NEED TRAIN. UH, IT'S HILARIOUS. I GOT A PORTABLE AC. YOU CAN WATER. OKAY, WE'RE GOOD. OKAY. IT IS, UH, 10:09 AM ON THE 24TH OF OCTOBER, 20 YEAR OF OUR LORD 2024 . AND UH, THIS IS A COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE. I AM, UH, CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE, JEFF BASS. AND WITH ME, I HAVE COUNCIL MEMBERS, CARISSA DUTTON AND CHRIS BEARD. UM, ALRIGHT, LET'S SEE. WE'RE GOING TO, UH, SKIP APPROVING THE MINUTES AT THIS TIME. WE WILL VISIT THAT LATER AND WE'LL GO STRAIGHT TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. PERSONS WHO DESIRE TO ADDRESS THE COMMITTEE ON ANY ITEM ON THE AGENDA ARE ALLOWED THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK. UH, I DON'T SEE THAT WE HAVE ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC HERE. WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. OKAY. UH, LET'S GO THEN STRAIGHT TO ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. UH, THREE A DISCUSS HOMELESS CAMP REMEDIATION ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. AND WE HAVE, UH, A C ANDM, MITCH BATES HERE WITH US. ALRIGHT. SO, UH, I, I BELIEVE THIS CAME AS A REQUEST FROM MARGARET THAT CAME THROUGH, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER MARGARET LOCKED, UH, FOR US TO KIND OF REVIEW AND LOOK AT WHAT WE DO AND HOW WE DO THINGS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH HOMELESS CAMPS. UH, THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENCES, OF COURSE, WHEN IT'S ON PRIVATE PROPERTY THAN WHEN WE DEAL WITH PUBLIC PROPERTY. TYPICALLY, WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST IS WE WORK, WE HAVE, UM, AN AGREEMENT, UH, THAT WE WILL OFTEN USE WITH PRIVATE PROPERTY FIRMS. AND OF OFTENTIMES OUR STAFF WILL THEN TAKE THE TIME TO WORK WITH THEM TO CLEAN UP THE CAMP ITSELF. UM, WE HAVE, UH, I THINK AS YOU MAY KNOW, WE HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY REVAMPED OUR HOMELESS TASK FORCE GROUP. UH, UH, WE NOW HAVE AMBER THOMPSON AS DIRECTOR OVER THAT PROGRAM AND MORE. UM, AND ACTUALLY WE'VE STARTED UP AGAIN, IF YOU HADN'T HEARD, WE STARTED THIS PAST MONDAY AND THE TASK FORCE IS GOING AGAIN. WE'VE ACTUALLY TAKEN THE TIME TO GO BACK AND REVIEW AND REVAMP OUR ENTIRE PROCESS, DEALING WITH NOT ONLY PRIVATE PROPERTY, BUT PUBLIC PROPERTY AS WELL. UPDATED SOME OF THE FORMS AND SIGNAGE AND OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE RUN ACROSS IN THE PAST, AND I KNOW MR. ENGLAND HAS SOME PRIOR HISTORY FROM MANY YEARS AGO WITH THIS CHIEF BRIAN AND SOME OTHERS. UM, OFTENTIMES WHEN WE DEAL WITH PRIVATE PROPERTY LOCATIONS, IT'S THEIR PROPERTY. THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR CLEANING UP. SOMETIMES THE CAMP BECOMES SO LARGE THAT, I MEAN, THEY'RE KIND OF SCARED OF WHAT TO DO AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO AND THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT. UH, SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT VERY COOPERATIVE WITH US, UH, AND THEY NEED TO BE MORE COOPERATIVE WITH US AND RESPONSIBLE FOR CLEANING UP THEIR PROPERTY. BUT WHAT WE RUN INTO, SOMETIMES WHEN WE'VE GONE MORE ON THE ENFORCEMENT TYPE ROUTE, IT TAKES MUCH LONGER. 'CAUSE AS YOU KNOW, LIKE WHETHER IT'S A CODE ISSUE, WHATEVER THE, THE LEGAL ISSUE IS, THERE'S A NOTICE OF VIOLATION. TYPICALLY. THEY GET SO MANY DAYS TO TAKE CARE OF IT. EVEN IF WE GET INTO ENFORCEMENT WHERE WE'RE WRITING TICKETS FOR VIOLATIONS OF CODE THAT'S ON THEIR PROPERTY NOW IT'S IN THE COURT SYSTEM. AND OFTENTIMES THAT, AND WE EXPERIENCED THIS IN THE PAST AND WE ACTUALLY WENT THAT ROUTE IN THE PAST WITH A LOT OF THESE BUSINESSES, BUT IT GETS TIED UP IN THE COURT SYSTEM AND NOW MONTHS AND MONTHS ARE GOING BY AND IT STILL HASN'T BEEN CLEANED UP. SO WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IS TRYING TO FIND SOME MIDDLE GROUND, UH, TO WORK WITH THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS FOR THEM TO CLEAN IT UP. WE'RE ACTUALLY TAKING MORE STEPS. UH, AMBER AND TEAM ARE WORKING ON MORE OF THE, UH, GOING TO BE WORKING ON, IT'S NEW, BUT MORE OF A PROACTIVE STEP WITH ALL THE BUSINESSES OF THINGS TO WATCH FOR. YOU CAN CATCH THIS EARLY, IT'S A LOT EASIER TO CLEAN UP A CAMP ON PRIVATE PROPERTY IF YOU CATCH IT EARLY AND IT'S VERY SMALL AND YOU START SEEING THESE SIGNS AND HERE'S WHAT TO DO. THERE ACTUALLY ARE SOME SERVICES OUT THERE THAT THE, THE BUSINESSES CAN CONTRACT WITH TO COME IN AND HELP CLEAN UP THOSE KINDS OF THINGS IF IT GETS TO THAT POINT. BUT WE STILL WANNA FIND SOME WAY TO PARTNER WITH THEM. SOMETIMES IT'S SO LARGE, IT'S OVERWHELMING. IT MAY TAKE CITY RESOURCES AND THE, AND THE BIGGEST REASON WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO, THESE ARE HEALTH AND SAFETY TYPE ISSUES. THAT'S WHY WE'RE CLEANING UP THE CAMPS. IT'S NOT SAFE AND HEALTHY FOR NOT ONLY THE PEOPLE LIVING IN IT, BUT FOR THE REST OF OUR COMMUNITY. SO WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO DO THAT PARTNERSHIP TO GET THE CAMPS CLEANED UP AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN. AND WE STILL MAKE OUR, OUR STAFF AND OUR, UM, SOCIAL WORKERS STILL MAKE REFERRALS TO THE SERVICES AND THINGS THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT TO HELP THOSE THAT ARE IN NEED. SO I'LL KIND OF PAUSE AT THAT POINT AND, UH, I KNOW I'VE HIT A FEW THINGS THERE AND I GUESS I'LL SEE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE. OKAY. THANK YOU, MITCH. QUESTIONS? UM, SO I KNOW THAT PART OF THE DISCUSSION IS MORE OF A WHAT ARE WE DOING TO MAKE PROPERTY OWNERS BE MORE PROACTIVE, SUCH AS MM-HMM. , UM, LIKE I'VE GONE OUT TO WITH THE, WITH THEM TO DO A CLEANUP, RIGHT? AND IT WAS OVER ALONG THE CREEK, UM, [00:05:01] OFF OF JAMES MAYBE, UM, WHERE IT'S JUST ACROSS THE CREEK FROM THE VA HOSPITAL. AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WAS THAT THE VA IS, THAT'S A REALLY BAD AREA BECAUSE THERE, IT'S SO WOODED. SO CAN WE NOT HAVE IN THIS SITUATION, LIKE, HEY, YOU NEED TO RAISE UP THE CANOPIES OF CLEAN UP THE BRUSH. THAT WAY YOU CAN SEE THROUGH THERE BECAUSE THAT'S WHY THEY GO AND CAMP BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SEEN. RIGHT? SO I'M ALL FOR US CLEANING UP CAMPSITES BECAUSE I, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I WOULDN'T WANT A PROPERTY OWNER TO GO OUT THERE AND TRY TO DO IT THEMSELVES BECAUSE IT'S DANGEROUS ON MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS. UM, BUT I THINK THAT IF SOMEONE ISN'T, IF A PROPERTY OWNER IS DOING THINGS THAT ARE NOT BEING PROACTIVE TO KEEP THEM FROM COMING AS EASILY. RIGHT. UM, I THINK THAT'S WHERE KIND OF THE DISCUSSION WAS, IS LIKE SOMETHING WE NEED TO MAKE THEM UNDERSTAND. LIKE, IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HELP YOURSELF, WE WE'RE NOT GONNA HELP YOU OR IT'S GONNA COME AT A COST. SURE. SO FROM AN ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT, OF COURSE WE WOULD HAVE TO REFER BACK TO SOME TYPE OF, ARE THEY VIOLATING, IS THERE A VIOLATION OF EITHER ONE OF OUR ORDINANCES OR SOME STATE LAW KIND OF THING, UH, TO TAKE ACTION. IT WOULD DEFINITELY, THOSE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS ARE THE CONVERSATIONS WE'LL BE HAVING WITH THEM. UM, IT BECOMES REAL EASY IF YOU'VE GOT A BUSINESS OWNER, MANAGER, WHOEVER THAT IS COOPERATIVE AND SEES THE ISSUES AND THEY VOLUNTARILY WANT TO CLEAN UP AN AREA, THIN OUT AN AREA, MOVE SOME THINGS, WHATEVER ROUTE THAT'S KIND OF SOME OF THE SYMPTOMS AND SOME OF THE CAUSES FOR WHAT'S GOING ON, UM, FORCING THEM TO CLEAN IT UP. AND, AND BRIAN, I'LL HAVE TO KIND OF, UH, LEAN ON YOU A LITTLE BIT ON THIS. THE QUESTION OF CAN WE FORCE SOMEONE TO GO DO THAT, CLEAN IT OUT, THIN IT OUT TO PREVENT SOMEONE FROM BEING THERE? AND THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT ON THAT, BUT YEAH. UM, WE CAN'T MAKE A PROPERTY OWNER. I THINK THIS COMES IN WHERE WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE EDUCATING PROPERTY OWNERS AND ENGAGING THEM BECAUSE WE CAN'T MAKE THE PROPERTY OWNER DO SOMETHING TO HIS PROPERTY THAT'S NOT REQUIRED BY LAW. AND THERE'S NOTHING IN THE LAW UNLESS IT'S A HEALTH AND SAFETY, UM, ISSUE. MEANING THAT BECAUSE THE BRUSH IS THERE, IT'S A FIRE HAZARD OR BECAUSE THE BRUSH IS THERE BECAUSE THE BRUSH IS THERE AND IT HIDES OTHER ILLEGAL ACTIVITY THAT THE, THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER IS NOT, UM, UM, ENGAGED IN. THAT'S NOT A LEGAL REASON TO MAKE THEM, UM, DO SOMETHING THAT'S NOT OTHERWISE, UM, ALLOWED BY LAW. AND SO THE LAW DOESN'T REQUIRE US TO, TO RAISE OUR CANS ON OUR TREES, AND IT DOESN'T REQUIRE US TO REMOVE BRUSH TO THE EXTENT IT'S NOT A FIRE HAZARD. NOW, IF THE FIRE MARSHAL WERE TO GO IN THERE AND SAY, WELL, THAT'S A FIRE HAZARD, YOU NEED TO CLEAN UP THIS BRUSH, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. BUT THAT'S PROBABLY A, A BRIDGE TOO FAR IN SOME WAYS. I'M NOT SURE A FIRE MARSHAL WILL GO OUT THERE AND SAY THAT I'M NOT A FIRE MARSHAL, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT HE WOULD GO OUT AND SAY THAT. YEAH. AND TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, SO I THINK, AGAIN, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE REALLY GONNA MAKE A BIG PART OF OUR, UH, PLANS FOR THE TASK FORCE MOVING FORWARD IS, IS MORE ON THAT PROACTIVE, THAT COMMUNICATIONS, THAT EDUCATION COMPONENT UP FRONT WITH THE BUSINESSES. WE'VE EVEN TALKED ABOUT CREATING A, UH, A STANDING MEETING WITH BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, AND MAYBE IT'S REGIONAL, DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE TOWN. UH, WE CAN PARTNER WITH CHAMBER AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE BUSINESSES AND COMMUNICATE AND EDUCATE ON WHAT THE ISSUES ARE TO TALK ABOUT THE KIND OF THINGS THAT, THAT YOU MENTIONED ABOUT IF THEY CAN WORK WITH US AND PARTNERS, IT, IT, IT CAN HELP THEM AS WELL PREVENT THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE GOING ON ON THEIR PROPERTY, UM, WHEN THEY BECOME THE HUGE, WHEN IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME. AND THE CAMPS ARE HUGE. IT'S OVERWHELMING FOR THOSE, EVEN FOR US, WE CAN DO IT. I MEAN, THE CAMP THAT WE, WELL, IT WAS LONG TINSLEY PARK THAT WE HIT THIS PAST MONDAY AND WE DIDN'T EVEN FINISH AND WE, WE PULLED OUT MORE THAN, WHAT WAS IT? 15, 14. 14 TONS. OH, 15 TONS. 15 TONS. UM, AND ACTUALLY WE'LL BE GOING BACK NOW THAT'S A LONGER CREEK AND IN THE WOODED AREAS AND ALL THE WAY BACK UP IN THERE. SO SOME OF THE CAMPS GET PRETTY LARGE. BUT WHAT I THINK WE CAN DO, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THE MORE WE CAN BE PROACTIVE WITH BUSINESS OWNERS ON THE THINGS AND, AND EDUCATING THEM ON WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO, AND THAT KIND OF THING OF, LOOK, IF YOU'LL GO THROUGH AND THIN THAT OUT, THE VISIBILITY HELPS. AND THEY DON'T, THE, THE, THE CAMP, THOSE DOING THE CAMPS, THE HOMELESS CAMPS DON'T LIKE TO BE HIGHLY VISIBLE. SO WE CAN DO THAT ON A PROACTIVE STANDPOINT. WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO FORCE THEM TO DO IT FROM AS SOME TYPE OF VIOLATION AS MR. ENGLAND SAID, BUT WE COULD BE ABLE TO PARTNER WITH THEM ON THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. UM, I THINK THAT EDUCATION COMPONENT AND HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS, WE HADN'T, I THINK A LITTLE BIT OF THAT THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST SPORADICALLY. BUT OUR PLAN IS TO BE MUCH MORE PROACTIVE IN ENGAGING AND WORKING WITH THE BUSINESSES AND, AND SOME [00:10:01] OF THEM, AND, WELL, SOME OF THE OWNERS ARE NOT ONLY OUT OF TOWN OUTTA STATE, ALL THAT KIND OF THING, BUT YOU WORK WITH THE MANAGERS ON SITE, UH, AND OUR PLAN IS TO START WORKING WITH THEM TO BE PROACTIVE, UPFRONT AND, AND HEADING OFF THIS AS MUCH AS WE CAN. SO, SO AT, AT THIS POINT, HOW, HOW, UM, HOW COMMON IS IT THAT WE ARE DOING A CLEANUP AND CHARGING A PROPERTY OWNER? BECAUSE FROM WHAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD UP UNTIL THIS POINT, WE WERE JUST GOING OUT AND CLEANING UP. YEAH. SO, UH, THAT IS CORRECT. SO TYPICALLY THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST. I DON'T THINK, UH, WE HAVE BEEN CHARGING PROPERTY OWNERS, AT LEAST IN RECENT TIMES, IN RECENT YEARS, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT MANY YEARS AGO. UH, I DON'T THINK WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT. UM, I DON'T KNOW, DIFFICULTY WITH CHARGING PROPERTY OWNERS IS THERE'S THE DELAY. YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM NOTICE, RIGHT? AND THEN THERE'S THE DELAY TO GIVE THEM THE CHANCE TO REMEDIATE THE WHATEVER NUISANCE VIOLATIONS THERE ARE ON THE PROPERTY. SO THAT'S A TYPICALLY AROUND A 30 DAY PERIOD. AND BY THE TIME IT GETS TO THE POINT OF WE CAN ENFORCE IT AND PUT A LIEN ON THE PROPERTY HEALTH AND SAFETY LIEN ON THE PROPERTY, UM, UM, IT'S GROWN SO BIG THAT THIS, THIS IS WHAT WE DISCOVERED WHEN WE FIRST INITIATED THIS, WHAT, NINE YEARS AGO, EIGHT YEARS AGO, 10 YEARS AGO, WAS THAT WAS KIND OF THE APPROACH WE WERE USING. AND WE FIGURED OUT THAT THE REASON THAT'S NOT WORKING IS BECAUSE THE CAMPS WERE GROWING SO BIG, IT WAS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE HOMEOWNER TO GO OUT THERE AND DO ANYTHING WITH IT. RIGHT? AND THAT, THAT'S KIND OF MY THOUGHT PROCESS WITH THE, LIKE, THE RAISING OF YOUR CANOPIES CLEANING OUT BRUSH TYPE OF THING IS NOT THAT I THINK A BUSINESS OWNER, A HOMEOWNER, SHOULD BE ON THE HOOK FOR THAT CLEANUP BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT. HOWEVER, IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DO YOUR PART, THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO PAY FOR THE CLEANUP ON YOUR OWN. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? LIKE, SO NOT LIKE I'M, I'M NOT FORCING YOU TO CUT YOUR TREES, I'M NOT FORCING YOU TO DO ANYTHING. HOWEVER, IF WE'RE GONNA COME AND WE'RE GONNA FOOT THE BILL FOR THIS CLEANUP, YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR PART. YOU DON'T, I MEAN, YOU'RE RUNNING THE RISK, YOU'RE TAKING A RISK BY NOT DOING SOME PROACTIVE MEASURES THAT AREN'T, THAT AREN'T LEGAL OBLIGATIONS, BUT YOU'RE RUNNING THE RISK THAT THIS PROBLEM THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS IS GONNA GROW TO THE EXTENT WHERE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO CHARGE YOU FOR OUR CLEANING. RIGHT. I GOTCHA. SO I'M LIKE, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE FEASIBLE TO DO? LIKE, I MEAN, JUST, I MEAN, BECAUSE IF WE ALL KNOW WHAT HURTS THE MOST IS YOUR POCKET, RIGHT? WHETHER YOU'RE A BIG BUSINESS OWNER, SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, WHATEVER. SO IF IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, OTHER THAN A PHONE CALL OR A LETTER IN THE MAIL FROM THE CITY SAYING, HEY, BY THE WAY, YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF OOMPH TO DO YOUR PART TO GET IT TAKEN CARE OF. RIGHT? SO I KNOW PERSONALLY IF IT WERE ME AND I'M LIKE, SOMEONE TELLS ME LIKE, HEY, EITHER YOU DO YOUR PART OR YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO FOOT THE BILL. 'CAUSE I KNOW IT'S NOT A LITTLE BILL AND I DON'T WANNA HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT. YEAH. ESPECIALLY BECAUSE I'M NOT THE ONE THAT CREATED THE MESS. HOWEVER, YOU'RE THE ONE ENABLING THE MESS AND YOU, I DON'T NEED TO ANSWER. RIGHT? . YEAH. AND I, AND WE, WE'VE ACTUALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND LOOKED AT IT. SO I THINK THE WAY THAT WOULD OCCUR WOULD BE SOME TYPE OF LEAN AFTERWARDS OR WHATEVER WE'VE DONE. MM-HMM. , UH, I THINK THE CHALLENGE WOULD BE FIGURING OUT WHERE'S THAT LINE, RIGHT? UH, THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE SMALL MOM AND POP BUSINESSES THAT JUST DON'T HAVE THE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE SCARED, THEY'RE AFRAID THEY DON'T HAVE RESOURCES. WHATEVER IT IS, IT'S STILL THEIR BUSINESS. UH, I THINK IT WOULD BE CHALLENGING FOR THEM. THEN THERE'S THE LARGER BUSINESSES THAT DO HAVE RESOURCES, BUT IT'S, IT'S FINDING WHERE DO WE AS, AS A CITY, FIND THAT LINE ON WHICH ONES ARE WE GONNA FOLLOW A LEAN ON OR NOT? OR IF WE'RE GONNA DO ALL OF 'EM. IT'S A LOT. UH, THE MAJORITY OF OUR HOMELESS CAMPS NOW, THE VAST MAJORITY ARE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, AND WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THESE BUSINESSES. SO WE'RE, WE'VE BEEN JUGGLING THE BALANCE. NOW, HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT AGAIN, WE'VE TOTALLY REVAMPED OUR PROGRAM AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE NEW THINGS THAT ARE COMING. UH, MY HOPE AND MY THOUGHT AND WHAT I BELIEVE IS WE'RE GONNA BE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE DOING IT THROUGH OUR NEW PROCESS AND WHAT WE HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST. AND THERE HAS BEEN SOME OF IT. WE'VE BEEN CLEANING UP CAMPS. I'M NOT KNOCKING THAT AT ALL. WE'VE BEEN DOING A GOOD JOB OF THAT. BUT I THINK WE CAN BE MORE EFFECTIVE AND, AND, AND, UH, IN DOING THAT MORE EFFICIENT AT DOING THAT. AND THEN WE'RE REALLY GONNA PUSH HARD ON THE COMMUNICATION, THE EDUCATION, THE, THE PARTNERSHIP SIDE OF THAT AND MAKING SURE THE BUSINESSES KNOW IT'S YOUR PROPERTY. YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU'RE CUSTOMERS OR WHOEVER'S COMING ONTO YOUR BUSINESS. AND THE PROPERTY DOES THAT, IS THAT SCARING OR THE HOMELESS CAMP'S SCARING PEOPLE AWAY, WHATEVER IT IS. UH, AND TRYING TO PUSH THERE. BUT WE, WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, WHERE WHEN DOES IT GET TO [00:15:01] THE POINT OF OKAY, WE PARTNER WITH THEM. UM, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD CHANGE THE AGREEMENT. UM, WELL, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE, I'M NOT SURE IT'LL CHANGE THE AGREEMENT. I MEAN, WELL, IT'LL CHANGE THE PROCESS LEADING UP TO THE AGREEMENT BECAUSE IF WE'RE GOING THERE UNDER A HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE, RIGHT, UH, VIOLATION, THAT'S GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY HAVEN'T COOPERATED, THEY HAVEN'T DONE SOME PROACTIVE THINGS. AND WE'VE BEEN THERE A COUPLE OF TIMES BEFORE. UH, REALLY THIS IS A POLICY ISSUE, RIGHT? YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S JUST A DETERMINATION BY STAFF ON WHEN'S ENOUGH, ENOUGH, THE, THE EDUCATION'S NOT WORKING, WE'RE NOT GETTING COOPERATION. WE'VE BEEN IN THERE A COUPLE OF TIMES ALREADY. IT'S BUILT BACK UP. THERE'S, THIS IS THE THIRD TIME, FOURTH TIME, WHATEVER YOU, WHATEVER THE MARK MAY BE, RIGHT? UM, UM, WE'LL NEED TO HANDLE THIS AS A HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE. AND THAT'S WHEN WE HAVE TO GIVE PROPER NOTICE. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE A TIME TO REMEDIATE. AND THEN WE GO IN UNDER THE AUTHORITY, UNDER THE HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE TO CLEAN UP ANY HEALTH HAZARDS, WHICH TRASH AND DEBRIS ARE CONSIDERED HEALTH HAZARDS. RIGHT. UM, CLEAN 'EM UP AND THEN WE CAN GO IN AND PLACE A, A LIEN ON IT AFTER WE CLEAN IT UP. SO LIKE WE DO WITH HIGH GRASS. RIGHT. SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. IT'S LIKE HIGH GRASS. YEAH. RIGHT. SO THEN THAT'S, WHEN DOES THAT CRITERIA, 'CAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS, IF WE'RE MOVING FORWARD QUICKLY TO TRY TO GET THE CAMPS CLEANED UP, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO KNOW WHICH WAY WE'RE GOING. IF WE'RE GOING THE, BECAUSE THE, THE, THE LEAN ROUTE, THE HAVING THE BUSINESS COVER, THE COST IS GONNA BE LIKELY TIED TO THE ENFORCEMENT ROUTE, WHICH TAKES MUCH LONGER TO GO THAT ROUTE AND MUCH LONGER. 'CAUSE BASICALLY THEY'RE NOT WORKING WITH US. I MEAN, THE OTHER ROUTE IS GET THEM TO AGREE TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT OF WAIVER'S, NOT THE RIGHT WORD. JUST AN AGREEMENT WITH US. ALLOW US TO COME ON AND DO THAT. JUST A LICENSE. YEAH, A LICENSE, UH, TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. SO, AND IF IT'S CLEARLY, IF IT'S FIRST TIME IT'S HAPPENED OR WHATEVER, I, I WOULD THINK IF WE'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, IT WOULD BE MORE ALONG THE LINES OF REPEAT OFFENDER KIND OF THING. RIGHT? THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON OVER AND OVER AGAIN. YOU'VE BEEN A PROBLEM, LOCATION, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE'VE BEEN OUT THERE BEFORE, WE'VE BEEN OUT THERE ONCE, WE'VE BEEN OUT THERE TWICE, WE'VE CLEANED IT UP. YOU NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE. THEN WE COULD GO MORE OF THE ENFORCEMENT ROUTE AND TRY TO CATCH IT EARLIER. MY ONLY, THE THE HESITATION YOU'RE SEEING FROM ME ISN'T, UH, I'M NOT AGAINST HOLDING THE BUSINESSES ACCOUNTABLE. IT'S JUST WHEN WE GO THE ENFORCEMENT ROUTE AND WE GO THE OTHER ROUTE, IT JUST TAKES US SO MUCH LONGER TO GET CLEANED UP. AND THEN THE CAMP GROWS FOR A WHILE AND IT GETS BIGGER, BIGGER, BIGGER. UH, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO FOCUS ON GETTING THOSE CLEANED UP AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN. NOT ONLY FOR THAT BUSINESS, BUT FOR OUR WHOLE COMMUNITY. SO, BUT, UH, IF, IF IT'S OF COURSE COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATION AND THEN ULTIMATELY FOR THE COUNCIL TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, DO WE DO SOME SORT OF LEAN ROUTE AT SOME POINT FOR REPEAT OFFENDER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNT? SOMETHING LIKE A MAYBE A THREE STRIKES YOU'RE OUT TYPE THING. WE'LL, WE'LL WORK WITH YOU THE FIRST TIME TO GET IT AND GET IT CLEANED UP. WE'LL WORK WITH YOU THE SECOND TIME AND GET IT CLEANED UP. BUT IF WE HAVE TO COME OUT HERE A THIRD TIME, YOU'RE GETTING THE BILL FOR IT. YEAH, WELL, I WOULD, I WOULD RECOMMEND, STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU, WELL, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ENFOR IS ENFORCEMENT POLICIES. AND, AND, AND QUITE FRANKLY, Y'ALL CAN GIVE GUIDANCE ON WHAT Y'ALL WANT TO GET ACCOMPLISHED, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT STAFF, THAT, THAT THE MANAGEMENT TEAM HAS THE AUTHORITY AND LEEWAY TO, TO RESOLVE THESE INDIVIDUAL ISSUES. AND SO IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR COUNSEL TO SPEAK INTO, OKAY, WHEN YOU GO OUT TO THIS PROPERTY OWNER THE THIRD TIME, Y'ALL MUST FIND THEM. THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE DISCRETION TO SAY, LISTEN, YEAH, IT'S TRUE. WE'VE BEEN OUT HERE THREE TIMES, BUT THIS, THIS PROPERTY OWNER'S DONE EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO TRY TO REMEDIATE THE PROBLEM, THE PROBLEM'S, REALLY NOT THEM. IT'S TRULY THE TRESPASSERS THAT ARE COMING ALONG THEIR PROPERTY AND BUILDING THESE CAMPS. AND SO IT'S, IT'S THE, WHAT COUNCIL NEEDS TO DO IS GIVE SOME BROAD GUIDANCE TO MITCH'S TEAM, AND THEN THEY NEED TO COME UP WITH, WITH THE MEASURES TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE MEETING Y'ALLS GOALS. AND, AND WHAT I'M HEARING MITCH SAY IS YES, THEY'RE PROBABLY, THEY NEED TO COME UP WITH A POLICY THAT SAYS AFTER SO MANY TIMES THEY COME OUT THERE AND WE'RE SEEING THESE THINGS HAPPEN, THEN AT THAT POINT, IT, THEY MAY CITY MAY AT THAT POINT, UM, UM, APPROACH IT FROM A HEALTH AND SAFETY, UM, STANDPOINT AND PLACE A LIEN ON THE PROPERTY. BUT THAT'S REALLY SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE THE DISCRETION TO HAVE. YEP. OKAY. CHIEF BRIAN HAS THE ANSWER. WELL, I'D LIKE TO, YEAH. , I'D LIKE TO ADD SOME HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE. UH, 180% OF THESE ARE REPEAT LOCATIONS. YOU KNOW, WHEN THE, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CAMPS, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT, UH, IN FRONT OF A WALMART. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WOODED AREAS THAT ARE GROWING UP INTO CAMP. SO MOST OF THESE ARE REPEAT LOCATIONS. AND IF, IF YOU GO BACK HISTORICALLY BEFORE WE STARTED DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW, WE WENT THROUGH THE ABATEMENT PROCESS. AND WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE ABATEMENT PROCESS, IT TAKES SO LONG. UH, AND THERE'S SO MANY HURDLES BY [00:20:01] THE TIME YOU DO THE CLEANUP AND YOU HEARD 'EM TALK ABOUT TINSLEY PARK, THAT IT, THAT THEY SPENT ALL DAY OUT THERE MONDAY AND DIDN'T GET FINISHED. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. THE, THE CAMP GROWS SO LARGE THAT YOU'RE FOCUSING ALL YOUR ENERGY ON, ON THAT ONE CAMP. YOU FINALLY GET THERE, IT TAKES YOU SEVERAL DAYS TO CLEAN IT UP, AND THEN YOU GO TO THE NEXT CAMP. THE WAY WE'RE DOING IT NOW, WE'RE HITTING THREE CAMPS A DAY, INCLUDING TENSLEY PARK OR BEFORE. UM, AND SO I JUST CAUTION YOU THAT IF, IF WE PUT TOO MUCH BUREAUCRACY IN SLOWING IT DOWN, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO TWO DO TWO TO THREE CAMPS A WEEK. UM, AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S GONNA GROW TO THE POINT THAT WHEN WE FINALLY GET TO THAT CAMP, IT'S JUST TAKES SO MUCH ENERGY TO CLEAN. AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS A WEEK LATER, IT STARTS TO BUILD AGAIN AND IT, IT ALL STARTS OVER AGAIN. AND IT, WE'RE, WE'RE PLAYING WHACK-A-MOLE OUT THERE. I MEAN, WE'RE, IT IS, WE HIT ONE CAMP, WE GO TO THE NEXT, WE GO TO THE NEXT, AND THEN WE START OVER. UH, BECAUSE THAT ORIGINAL PLACE. AND SO ANYTHING THAT SLOWS THAT DOWN, I WORRY IS GONNA, AND AND THERE'S A PERTINENT, UH, IMPORTANT COMPONENT TO THAT AS WELL. UM, YOU'RE REMINDING ME, CHIEF, WE'VE DONE THIS LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THE RESULTS. IF WE START USING THE STICK ON PROPERTY OWNERS AS, AS OPPOSED TO THE CARROT, IF WE START USING THE STICK, THEY SHUT DOWN AND THEY DON'T GIVE US PERMISSION TO GO ON PROPERTY. AND THAT CREATES ALL SORTS OF OTHER PROBLEMS. BECAUSE IF WE CAN'T VISIBLY SEE IT FROM PUBLIC PROPERTY, SO WE MAY KNOW A CAMPS BACK IN, IN THE WOODS 'CAUSE WE'VE BEEN TOLD, BUT IF WE CAN'T VISIBLY SEE IT FROM PUBLIC PROPERTY WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY OF THE LANDOWNER, WE CAN'T EVEN ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE TO GET A WARRANT TO GO ON THE PROPERTY. WE, SO IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ARTICULATE TO THE JUDGE THAT, OKAY, WE'VE SEEN THIS, THIS, AND THIS, AND WE SEE THIS FROM WHERE WE SAW IT FROM. AND HE LOOKS AT THOSE THINGS TO ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE HESITANCY TO YES, I AGREE THAT WE, THEY NEED TO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO GO ON AT, AT SOME POINT TO SAY, OKAY, YEAH, WE'RE GONNA PUT A LIEN ON YOUR PROPERTY. 'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT COOPERATING. IN FACT, YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM. YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION AT ALL. YOUR, YOUR, YOUR ACTIONS ARE CONTRIBUTING IT. THEY NEED TO HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY, BUT THEY REALLY NEED TO HAVE THAT DISCRETION TO KEEP THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRO. WE REALLY DO DEPEND ON PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS. YEAH. SO, AND, AND I I WOULD HATE TO SEE US LIKE STRONG ARM, ANYONE, LIKE THAT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT THE GOAL. UM, BUT COULD WE NOT DO LIKE GOING BACK TO THE PROACTIVE, LIKE, HEY, SO WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA EDUCATE, THEN WE'RE GOING TO WHATEVER, LIKE THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE AFTER, OR, YOU KNOW, DO LIKE TWO EDUCATIONS, WHATEVER AFTER THAT. LIKE, JUST SO YOU KNOW, GOING FORWARD, IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HELP US KEEP THE PROBLEM, WE DO HAVE LIKE DISCRETION TO GO AND CLEAN THIS UP. AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA BE ON THE HOOK. JUST LIKE TO BE A PROACTIVE, LIKE CAN THEY SIGN LIKE A WAIVER CONTRACT OR WHATEVER, LIKE JUST A HEADS UP, LIKE WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO GET IT TAKEN CARE OF OR IT'S GONNA BECOME THIS WHOLE THING. AND LIKE, SO LIKE, CAN WE HAVE LIKE WAIVERS SAYING LIKE, THEY CAN DO A WAIVER LIKE THAT, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY EDUCATE 'EM LIKE THAT. WE, WE CERTAINLY CAN TELL THEM THIS IS THE AUTHORITY THE CITY HAS. THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN DO AS, AS A PRACTICAL, AS PRACTICAL MEASURES TO HELP ALLEVIATE THIS PROBLEM. THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE BY NO MEANS A LEGAL OBLIGATION. THAT'S ALL A PART OF THE CONVERSATION. AND WE CAN HAVE PAMPHLETS TO DESCRIBE WHAT THEY, THEY'RE LEGALLY OBLIGATED, WHAT THEY'RE NOT LEGALLY OBLIGATED, BUT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO SAVE MONEY IN THE FUTURE. AND THEN WE CAN ALSO DESCRIBE THIS AND THAT GETS TO A POINT, AND WE'RE OUT HERE ALL THE TIME AND WE THINK THAT YOU'RE NOT, UM, UM, WE THINK THAT YOU'RE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM AND NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN HELPING. THEN WE DO STILL HAVE THIS IN OUR TOOLBOX. WE PREFER NOT TO GO THIS ROUTE. WE PREFER TO PARTNER WITH YOU. BUT I THINK IT'S PART OF THE EDUCATION. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. IT'S PART OF THE EDUCATION. UH, AND UM, WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M WONDERING HERE TOO IS, AND, AND, AND OUR THOUGHT AND PLAN IS, AND WE'VE DONE SOME OF THIS IN THE PAST. WHEN WE FIND THOSE LOCATIONS, IF WE HAVE A PROPERTY ODOR THAT'S REALLY BEING PART OF THE PROBLEM HERE THAT IS CAUSING SOME OF THIS AND, AND IS REALLY WORKING AGAINST US, THERE IS OPPORTUNITIES AND, AND WE CAN USE OUR DISCRETION JUST LIKE WE DO IN ANY OTHER ENFORCEMENT CAPACITY. AND WE GET INTO ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS WHEN THERE'S BEEN A VIOLATION OF AN ORDINANCE OR STATE LAW. AND WE CAN GO INTO THAT IN SOME OF THOSE. I BELIEVE SOME OF THOSE ARE THE TWO UP TO $2,000 TICKETS PER VIOLATION PER DAY TYPE SITUATIONS. YOU KNOW, IN OTHER SITUATIONS WITH OTHER BUSINESSES, ON OTHER VIOLATIONS, WE DO THE SAME KIND OF THING. WE WORK WITH THEM, WE TRY TO HELP 'EM, WE TRY TO PARTNER, BUT WHEN THEY'RE NOT DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, THERE COMES A POINT WHERE YOU CAN DO AND USE DISCRETION TO DO ENFORCEMENT CAPACITY. AND I THINK WE'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY ON THOSE, FOR THOSE BUSINESSES THAT AREN'T WORKING WITH US, THAT ARE STILL FACILITATING SOME OF THIS. AND IF THERE ARE VIOLATIONS AGAINST THE BUSINESS, THERE'S, THERE'S POTENTIALLY ENFORCEMENT ACTION WE CAN TAKE THERE. I REALLY DO THINK WHERE WE'RE GOING NOW [00:25:01] IS GOING TO BE A, TO BE ABLE TO ALLEVIATE A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT YOU MAY HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST, STILL GIVING US THE FLEXIBILITY TO GET THE CAMPS CLEAN UP. BUT I REALLY THINK A LOT OF TIME IT'S THE CONVERSATION WITH THE BUSINESS OWNERS, THE MANAGERS BEING UPFRONT, UH, THE POTENTIAL TYPE THINGS, THOSE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THAT, THAT HOW IT IMPACTS THEM AND HOW IT IMPACTS OTHERS. I REALLY THINK WE CAN GET THEIR ATTENTION ON THESE, AT LEAST THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM. AND THEN THOSE THAT WE DON'T, IF THERE'S STILL A PROBLEM OR, AND THEY ARE IN VIOLATION, THEN WE DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO THE ENFORCEMENT ROUTE, WHICH IS $2,000 CITATIONS MULTIPLE TIMES, EITHER MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY IN SOME CASES, OR MULTIPLE DAYS EACH DAY THAT IT'S THERE. UH, USUALLY THAT'LL GET THEIR ATTENTION, BUT THAT TAKES LONGER TOO. BUT THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE FOR THE EXTREME CASES. AND I KNOW LIKE SOME, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE HAVE THAT FINANCIAL HINDRANCE OF, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO HAVE SOMEONE COME OUT AND CLEAR OUT BRUSH OR WHATEVER. AND SO LIKE IN THOSE SITUATIONS, I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GET WITH CODE AND YOU KNOW, LIKE WE'VE GOT CODE CARES, WE'VE GOT A TON OF PEOPLE THAT ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO VOLUNTEER TO HELP. AND SO MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN GET TOGETHER WITH, WITH CODE AND DO LIKE, YOU KNOW, IN THOSE INSTANCES WE'VE GOT A TEAM OF PEOPLE THAT ARE READY TO GO HELP AND HAVE CHAINSAWS AND GET IT KNOCKED OUT. HELP IN OTHER WAYS. YEAH, POTENTIALLY. OKAY. UM, ANY MORE FEEDBACK? OKAY. UM, ALRIGHT, SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS, UH, CITY STAFF, WE'VE CHANGED THE WAY WE'RE HANDLING THIS AND IT'S SOUNDS LIKE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, EVERY ONE OF THESE INSTANCES IS, IT'S ALL VERY SUBJECTIVE, RIGHT? EVERY SINGLE ONE IS DIFFERENT. IT'S EITHER, IT COULD BE A LARGE PROPERTY, IT COULD BE A VACANT PROPERTY, IT COULD BE AN OCCUPIED PROPERTY. IT COULD BE THE OWNER'S 3000 MILES AWAY. IT COULD BE THE OWNERS ON SITE, IT COULD BE SMALL BUSINESS, LARGE BUSINESS. SO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE IS DIFFERENT, EVEN IF IT'S 80% REPEAT LOCATIONS. EACH OF THOSE LOCATIONS IS INDEPENDENT AND DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER. SO, UM, AND, AND AS, UH, BRIAN MENTIONED, YEAH, I'M MORE IN FAVOR OF CARROT, CARROT AS OPPOSED TO STICK AS WELL. UM, BUT I, I WOULD PERSONALLY, MY OPINION IS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US HAVE SOME, UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO AND WHAT WE CAN FORCE THEM TO DO, RIGHT? BUT, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE SOME PROACTIVE BEST PRACTICES, SOME TRAINING, EDUCATION, A PAMPHLET THAT'S PASSED OUT, AN EMAIL, A COMBINATION OF THOSE THAT WE CAN EDUCATE PROPERTY OWNERS ON, THINGS THEY CAN DO, BECAUSE THESE, YOU KNOW, PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OR, UM, SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS, THEY MIGHT NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS THAT THEY HAVE THERE THAT'S ATTRACTING THIS PROBLEM, RIGHT? UM, AND YOU KNOW, AND I I'M DEFINITELY IN, UM, IN FAVOR OF EVERYTHING BEING SUBJECTIVE BECAUSE THE FACT IS THESE AREN'T VIOLATIONS THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER IS ACTIVELY DIRECTLY DOING. THESE ARE THINGS BEING DONE TO THEM. THEY'RE A VICTIM AS WELL. UM, SO I THINK EDUCATING THEM ON HOW TO NOT BE A VICTIM IS THE FIRST STEP. NOW THAT BEING SAID, IF WE'RE, IF THEY ARE A CONTINUED PROBLEM AND THEY ARE NOT BEING HELPFUL, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE EDUCATE THEM, COULD BE A SLIDING SCALE OF THESE ARE THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU IF THIS CONTINUES TO BE A PROBLEM. AND AT THAT POINT, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, THE THREAT OF LEGAL ACTION IS IN MANY CASES STRONGER THAN THE LEGAL ACTION ITSELF. 'CAUSE PEOPLE DON'T WANNA BE FINED, THEY DON'T WANNA HAVE LIENS PUT ON THE PROPERTY, THEY DON'T WANT THESE THINGS. SO THEY ARE GOING TO, IN MORE CASES THAN NOT, YOU KNOW, DO WHAT IT TAKES TO NOT GET TO THAT POINT. AND, AND KNOWING THAT THOSE, THAT THOSE, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT THOSE PENALTIES ARE IN PLACE IS TYPICALLY GONNA BE ENOUGH FOR THEM TO DO WHAT IT IS THAT WE NEED THEM TO DO TO HELP REMEDIATE THIS PROBLEM. SO I LIKE A PLAN THAT I LIKE AN ESCALATING PLAN AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT REPEAT INFRACTIONS REPEAT OCCURRENCES, YOU KNOW, WE COULD, WE COULD, UM, HONESTLY, LIKE I SAID, JUST THE FACT THAT THEM, KNOWING THAT THERE'S A THREAT OF LEGAL ACTION, UM, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, I'D LIKE TO SEE PERSONALLY, I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE WHAT ARE SOME OF THE CHANGES WE ARE MAKING, WHAT DO WE FEEL, HOW DO WE FEEL THOSE CHANGES ARE GONNA BENEFIT? AND I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT PRESENTED TO COUNCIL. UM, YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT COUNCIL MEMBERS LUCK LUCK'S OBJECTIVE WAS ON BRINGING THIS, UM, FORWARD. I MEAN, I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY MINE WAS IT. OH, OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. SO WHAT, WHAT IS THE, UH, WHAT'S THE OB OBJECTIVE? THAT WAS IT. I MEAN, JUST MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE BEING PROACTIVE IN DOING THEIR PART. OKAY. AND THAT WE'RE NOT JUST FOOTING THE BILL FOR SOMEONE THAT'S GOT THEIR HEELS IN THE GROUND AND JUST DON'T CARE. OKAY. SO I THINK THAT, UM, AND CORRECT ME IF WE'RE NOT IN ALL IN AGREEANCE HERE, BUT WE LIKE A, UH, A SUBJECTIVE, UH, SUBJECTIVE SCALE PROACTIVE, UH, SUCH [00:30:01] AS EDUCATION AND BEST PRACTICES AND LETTING PEOPLE KNOW OF LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS IF THEY DON'T ASSIST US. IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY. AND IF WE COULD HAVE SOMETHING, LIKE I SAID, SOMETHING THAT SHOWS ALL THAT, AND I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS ARE WORKING ON MAKING THOSE CHANGES, IF WE COULD PRESENT THAT TO COUNSEL AND I WOULD ACTUALLY, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A ONE SHEET OR A PAMPHLET, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WE'RE GOING TO USE TO EDUCATE PROPERTY OWNERS. OKAY. COOL. ANYTHING ELSE? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU GUYS. YEP. REALLY APPRECIATE THE, THE DISCUSSION ON THAT BE. ALL RIGHT. NEXT THREE B, DISCUSS HOME IMPROVEMENT INCENTIVE PROGRAMS, POLICY AND FUNDING REVIEW AND DISCUSS HOME IMPROVEMENT INCENTIVE PROGRAM POLICY RELATED TO APPLICATION PROCESS WAITING PERIOD, REPEAT APPLICATIONS, ELIGIBILITY OF OWNER OCCUPIED TOWN HOMES AND DUPLEXES IN CDBG AREAS. MORNING. GOOD MORNING GUYS. UH, SO WITH REGARD TO, WELL, TO START WITH THE, THE REPEAT, UM, OUR CURRENT PROTOCOL IS THAT THE PARTICIPANTS, WHAT THEY'VE GONE THROUGH THE PROGRAM, THEY WILL, UH, AND WE'VE, WE'VE REVIEWED ALL THEIR REBATE PAPERWORK. WE THEN SEND THEM A AWARD LETTER. UM, THE AWARD LETTER SAYS YOUR CHECK WILL ARRIVE WITHIN 30 DAYS, BUT IT ALSO HAS A DATE ON IT. AND THEY'RE NOT ELIGIBLE TO APPLY AGAIN UNTIL ONE YEAR AFTER, OR ONE YEAR AS OF THAT DATE, ONE YEAR LATER, UM, FROM THAT DATE. SO WHAT THAT RESULTS IN IS MOST OF THE TIME I HAVE, THERE'S ONE EXCEPTION OUT OF, UM, 56 TOTAL REPEATS. BUT WHAT THAT RESULTS IN IS THEY USUALLY CAN'T, THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN CONSECUTIVE YEARS. SO WHAT WE OFTEN HAVE, LIKE I SAID, THERE'S ONE EXCEPTION, BUT OF THE 25 PROPERTIES THAT HAVE REPEATED, UM, ONLY ONE HAS DONE SO IN CONSECUTIVE YEARS, THE REST THERE'S BEEN EITHER A TWO OR THREE YEAR GAP. UH, AND OF THOSE, OF THOSE REPEATS, THERE'S, THERE'S TWO PROPERTIES THAT HAVE REPEATED TWICE. SO BEEN THROUGH THE PROGRAM THREE TIMES, UH, IN 2020 AND 2022, AND THEN IN 2024. UH, AND ALMOST ALL OF THOSE, UH, LOOKS LIKE THERE'S ONE EXCEPTION. ALMOST ALL OF THOSE ARE OWNER OCCUPIED. THERE'S ONE LEASE OCCUPIED THAT IS REPEATED ONCE. UM, SO THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERS THE REPEAT QUESTION. I'M SURE WHAT THE GOAL THERE IS. BUT, UM, I WILL SAY THAT'S, THAT'S OUR PROTOCOL. THE ACTUAL POLICY GUIDELINE SAYS THAT WE CAN ONLY ACCEPT ONE APPLICATION PER PROPERTY PER YEAR. UM, SO IF, IF THERE'S A CHANGE TO THAT, THE GUIDELINES WOULD NEED TO BE CHANGED. BUT IF THERE'S A, LIKE A PRACTICE OR PROTOCOL CHANGE, THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD DO INTERNALLY. OKAY. UM, DO WE KNOW WHO BROUGHT THIS FORWARD? I THINK IT WAS, UH, MARGARET. I THINK MARGARET. OKAY. I THINK THE ISSUE WAS THAT BECAUSE IT'S BASICALLY FIRST COME FIRST SERVE ON THESE FUNDS, THAT WHEN YOU HAVE REPEAT PEOPLE THAT HAVE FIGURED OUT THE SYSTEM AND ARE SITTING ON SCOTT'S DOORSTEP AT 7:59 AM ON THE DAY THAT THINGS ARE DUE, THAT THEY'RE GETTING THE MONEY BEFORE PEOPLE THAT COULD ACT, THAT STILL THAT COULD USE IT TO ARE ABLE TO GET IN AND GET IT DONE. AND SO I THINK THAT WAS PART OF, PART OF THE ISSUE THERE. UM, I, I KNOW SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT SHOW UP ON SCOTT'S DOORSTEP AT 7:59 AM ON THE FIRST DAY. UH, WE, WE DEFINITELY HAVE SOME OF THOSE. SORRY TO INTERRUPT. THAT'S OKAY. UH, WE DO DEFINITELY HAVE SOME OF THOSE. UM, BUT AS FAR AS HOW MANY IN CONTEXT OF, UM, ALL APPLICATIONS EVERY YEAR, IT'S LESS THAN 10%. IT'S, WE'RE LOOKING AT LIKE FIVE TO 7% OF TOTAL APPLICATIONS IN ANY GIVEN YEAR OR TOTAL APPLICATIONS SINCE WE STARTED ARE, UM, ARE REPEATS. OKAY. SO, OKAY. SO THE CONCERN IS, AND SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS THE, THE QUESTION IS, ARE THERE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THE APPLICATION PROCESS BETTER THAN OTHERS AND THEREFORE GETTING FUNDS MORE OFTEN THAN SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS? SO IT'S, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A QUESTION OF FAIRNESS. SO, UM, AND YOU SAID THAT'S LESS THAN 10%. SO, OKAY, SO THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING IN EVERY OTHER YEAR AND PUTTING IN APPLICATIONS AND PUTTING THEM IN FASTER THAN SOMEONE WHO MAY HAVE JUST, JUST HEARD OF THE PROGRAM, THAT NUMBER'S LESS THAN 10%? CORRECT. RIGHT. OKAY. SO IN, IN, IN MY OPINION, I WOULDN'T, [00:35:01] I DON'T FEEL THERE'S A PROBLEM THERE AND I DON'T FEEL THAT, I MEAN, WELL YOU GUYS TELL ME, IS THERE, I MEAN, IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, IS THERE A WAY TO GAME THE SYSTEM AND GET AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS? I, UM, I MEAN, ONCE YOU COME TO APPLY OR ONCE YOU SUBMIT YOUR APPLICATION, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAIN DOCUMENTATION REQUIREMENTS. SO I, I I, I GUESS THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED SOME PEOPLE THAT MAYBE DON'T HAVE THEIR, ALL THEIR DOCUMENTS TOGETHER. IF THEY COME EARLY IN THE PROCESS, WE DON'T RUN OUT OF MONEY THAT DAY. I MEAN, IT'S USUALLY AT LEAST FOUR TO SIX WEEKS. SO, UM, AND IF THEY'RE ON TOP OF THAT, IF THEY'RE MISSING SOMETHING, WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER SOMETHING VERY MINOR, UM, DOCUMENTATION, WE USUALLY JUST HOLD IT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND PLEASE GET THAT TO US WHEN YOU CAN. IT'S, AGAIN, IT'S NOT HOLD IT INDEFINITELY. IT'S USUALLY JUST A WEEK OR SO. AND, AND THEN WE JUST PUT THEM THROUGH THE PROCESS. BUT I, I CAN'T THINK OF, UM, I CAN'T THINK OF AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE, NO. OKAY. THAT THE, UM, DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS ARE ALSO LISTED ON THE GUIDELINES, WHICH WE KEEP ON OUR WEBSITE, UM, THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. SO THEY'RE AWARE OF WHAT SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS THEY NEED TO HAVE READY FOR THE APPLICANT. THANK YOU. YEAH, THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING THAT. THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA CONFIRM TOO, 'CAUSE JUST, JUST SO IT'S RECORDED. YEAH, JUST, YEAH, TO BE VERY CLEAR THAT WE DO NOT MAKE THE APPLICATION AVAILABLE YEAR ROUND BECAUSE WE DO MAKE CHANGES TO THE APPLICATION, BUT THE GUIDELINES ARE AVAILABLE YEAR ROUND AND IF WE, I, I MEAN IF WE MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THOSE, THOSE, IF IT'S SOMETHING MAJOR, WE'LL USUALLY ASK COUNSEL ABOUT THOSE OR A COMMITTEE AT LEAST. BUT I CAN'T, UH, WITH THE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE APPRAISED VALUE CAP, I CAN'T THINK OF ANY MAJOR CHANGE WE MADE TO THE GUIDELINES. AND IF SOMEBODY, LET'S SAY IF SOMEBODY HAD A QUESTION ABOUT A PARTICULAR GUIDELINE, THEY COULD CONTACT YOU GUYS AND EVEN WHEN IT'S OUTSIDE OF THE APPLICATION WINDOW OH YEAH, WE ABSOLUTELY. OKAY, COOL. I JUST, I JUST WANT TO JUST CONFIRM THE FAIRNESS OF THE PROCESS. 'CAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE CONCERN THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AS FAIRNESS OF THE PROCESS. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UM, YEAH, WE'RE CONFIRMING AND I, I THINK IT, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYTHING IS IN ORDER THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW. UM, CARISSA, CHRIS, ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS? NO, THIS ANSWERS MY QUESTIONS CONCERNING, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I DIDN'T REALLY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. I JUST KNOW THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT APPLY YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR. YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. BUT LIKE I SAID, THE, THE, WE'VE ONLY HAD ONE THAT WAS, THAT SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED IN ONE YEAR AND WAS ABLE TO APPLY THE NEXT, UM, THE REST OF THEM BECAUSE OF HOW WE'VE SITUATED IT, HOW YOU CAN'T APPLY, UM, FOR A YEAR AFTER YOUR RECEIVE AWARD THAT SORT OF BUILDS IN THAT GAP OF AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, TWO YEARS, YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO DO IT CONSECUTIVELY. OKAY. SO IF, IF WE COULD JUST, YOU KNOW, MAYBE PUT TOGETHER A TWO OR THREE SLIDE PRESENTATION FOR COUNCIL, JUST SHOWING WHAT WE'VE DISCUSSED HERE TODAY. SO IT JUST SHOWS THE FAIRNESS OF IT, YOU KNOW. AND FOR CLARIFICATION, WE DO HAVE FUNDS SET ASIDE IN THE EVENT THAT WE HAVE SOMEONE WITH AN EMERGENCY SITUATION THAT DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE PROGRAM OR WHAT HAVE YOU. IS THAT FOR HIP? NO, BUT THROUGH LIKE GHFC AND, AND SOME OF THE CODE CARE STUFF? YES. OKAY. AND, AND THOSE ARE SERVED YEAR ROUND. OKAY. I THINK THAT WAS ALSO PART OF THE CONCERN WAS, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE THAT REALLY NEEDED IT NOT BEING ABLE TO GET IN. AND SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS CLARIFIED, THAT WE DO HAVE OTHER AVENUES FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN EMERGENT ISSUE THAT ARISES TO GET THE HELP THAT THEY NEED. THAT'S A GREAT POINT. AND IF YOU GUYS COULD THROW SOME STUFF IN THERE ABOUT THAT TOO. OKAY. MR. CHAIRMAN, I, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD, I DID TALK TO, UH, MARGARET LAST WEEK AND COUNCIL MEMBER BEARD SUMMARIZED VERY NICELY HER HER QUESTIONS, WHAT SHE WANTED TO HAVE ANSWERED. I, UH, I THINK SOMEBODY USED THE WORD GAMING THE SYSTEM. THERE ARE A LOT OF REPEAT APPLICANTS AND YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF FAIRNESS AS IT RELATES TO THAT YEP. INFORMATION PROCESS. OKAY. AND, AND THE REPAIRS ARE NOT LIKE VANITY REPAIRS, RIGHT? THEY'RE LIKE NECESSARY, LIKE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE WELL THROUGH, THROUGH HIP. THEY'RE ALL EXTERIOR. OKAY. OR ALMOST ALL EXTERIOR. OKAY. UM, YEAH, WINDOWS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF. RIGHT? WINDOWS IS BY FAR THE MOST POPULAR. YEAH. BUT IT'S NOT EMERGENCY FUNDING. THAT'S MORE, YEAH. PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, ROOFING, STUFF LIKE THAT. BUT WE'RE NOT DOING THINGS THAT DON'T NEED TO BE DONE. IT, YOU KNOW, LIKE PAINT IS OF VANITY, BUT ALSO IT WILL ROT YOUR WOOD IF YOU HAVE CHIPPED PAINT. SO IT'S NOT LIKE SOMEONE'S JUST, YOU KNOW, MILKING THE SYSTEM JUST FOR THE HECK OF IT. RIGHT. UH, WHEN I, WHEN I SAY IT FOCUSES ON EXTERIOR, IT'S, IT'S, LIKE I SAID, WINDOWS IS THE MOST POPULAR. WE DO REPLACE SIDING, WHICH USES A PAINT ELEMENT INVOLVED IN THAT. [00:40:01] UM, UH, FENCING IS IS ANOTHER ONE. SO IT, IT, THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE 11 APPROVED REPAIRS ON THAT LIST AND THEY'RE ALL EXTERIOR. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR. SO THE HIP PROGRAM IS REALLY FOCUSED ON FACADE IMPROVEMENT. UM, WHEN IT GETS INTO THINGS LIKE THE LIFE SAFETY OR STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS OF THE HOME, THAT'S WHEN YOU WOULD GO MORE THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, THEIR GRANT PROGRAM. PERFECT. THANK YOU. OKAY. I THINK WE'VE ADDRESSED EVERYTHING ON THAT. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THANKS GUYS. ALRIGHT. THAT BEING THE LAST ITEM ON THE AGENDA, MOTION TO APPROVE. OH, MINUTES. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SORRY. GOING BACK TO MINUTES. GLAD I REMEMBERED THAT. . OKAY. UM, SO WE, UH, EVERYBODY'S HAD A, HAD A. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.