* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. GOOD [00:00:01] TO GO. ALRIGHT, A FEW HOURS . [ NOTICE OF MEETING CITY OF GARLAND, TEXAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE Work Session Room of City Hall William E. Dollar Municipal Building 200 N. Fifth Street Garland, Texas MARCH 17, 2025 4:00 PM] ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, AND WELCOME TO THE MARCH 17TH, 2025 MEETING OF GARLAND'S DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE. MYSELF, I'M DYLAN HEDRICK, THE CHAIRMAN WITH ME, I HAVE DEPUTY MAYOR PRO TIM LUCK, AND I HAVE, UH, COUNCILMAN BASS, AS WELL AS COUNCILMAN OTT IN ATTENDANCE. FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE FEBRUARY 17TH, 2025 MEETING. MOTION TO APPROVE. I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE. AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED ON TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. I DON'T SEE ANYONE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC, BUT WE ALWAYS WELCOME ANYONE WHO WISHES TO COME SPEAK TO US. ITEM NUMBER THREE, IN ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. ITEM THREE A IS REVIEWING THE SIGN ORDINANCE. WE HAVE LOOKS LIKE A PRESENTATION GEARED UP FOR US. YES. SO, UM, THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, SO THIS IS THE ONE. UM, THESE, THIS IS THE LIST THAT WE HAD SHOWN TO THE COMMITTEE LAST TIME, THAT INCLUDED, UM, FIVE SIGN, UM, VARIANCES, UH, IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS THAT WE HAD GOTTEN. BUT AT THAT TIME, IT WAS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION THAT, UM, A LOT OF, SOME OF THE SIGN VARIANCES MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PROCESSED AS A SIGN VARIANCE. SO IT DEPENDS ON THE LOCATION. IF THE, IF THIS IS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, THEN IT'S PROCESSED AS A DOWNTOWN WAIVER. SO WE KIND OF WENT BACK AND DID OUR RESEARCH ON THE DOWNTOWN WAIVER. SO THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT KINDS. THERE'S A MINOR WAIVER AND MAJOR WAIVER, UM, CATEGORY. UM, AND, AND NOW THERE HAD BEEN, WE HAVE RECEIVED ONE DOWNTOWN WAIVER APPLICATION THAT'S, UH, NOT ON THE LIST, BUT WE HAVE RECENTLY RECEIVED IT FOR THE EPIPHANY, UH, THAT BUSINESS. UM, SO YOU WILL SEE THAT, UM, COUNCIL AND PLAN COMMISSION WILL SEE IT, UM, SOMETIME SOON. BUT, UM, OUTSIDE OF THAT, WE HAD, UM, FIVE OTHER, UH, THAT WERE DOWNTOWN WAIVERS. SO THESE ARE NOT ALL DOWNTOWN WAIVERS, BECAUSE DOWNTOWN WAIVERS COULD BE MORE THAN SIGN RELATED ITEMS. SO THESE ARE THE, THESE ARE THE ONES THAT WERE ONLY RELATED TO SIGNS. NOW. WE DID OUR BEST. WE LOOKED AT ALL THE LOGS, WE LOOKED AT AGENDA PACKETS, UM, FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS TO FIND ANYTHING ELSE THAT HAD SIGNS IN THERE. SO WE DO BELIEVE THIS IS A PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE LIST BETWEEN THIS LIST AND THAT LIST. UM, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT, THAT WE MISSED ONE OR TWO HERE AND THERE IT IS, BUT WE DO, WE DID A PRETTY INTENSIVE RESEARCH ON THE AGENDA PACKETS, BECAUSE WE DON'T STILL HAVE THE SYSTEM TO GO AND DO IT, UM, QUICKLY. SO MOSTLY THESE ARE THE DOWNTOWN ONES. WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE OTHER ONES, AND IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, WE CAN DEFINITELY TALK ABOUT THOSE EVEN MORE. BUT THE DOWNTOWN ONES, UM, IT'S PRETTY EVIDENT THAT THOSE ARE SPECIFIC NEEDS FOR THOSE BUSINESSES. FOR EXAMPLE, THE JIMMY WALLACE ONE, I, I REALLY DON'T SEE A SIGN ORDINANCE THAT COULD BE MADE TO ALLOW SOMETHING THAT WOULD WEIGH BY, RIGHT? BUT OBVIOUSLY FOR THAT SPECIFIC BUSINESS IN THAT SPECIFIC LOCATION, IT MAKES SENSE. THAT'S WHY THERE'S A PROCESS TO BRING IT IN FRONT OF PLAN, COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL SO THAT THOSE COULD, THOSE, UM, SPECIAL SCENARIOS COULD BE CONSIDERED AND THOSE COULD BE, UM, APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL. NOW, EACH ONE, UH, WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT. THE DODGE BANDERAS, AGAIN, THE AWNING SIGNS, THE LETTERINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE AWNING, BUT ON THAT PARTICULAR ONE, IT WAS MOVED ABOVE THE AWNING. AND THOSE ARE, INSTEAD OF ONE SIGN, THEY WERE INDIVIDUAL LETTERS. SO THAT'S ALSO A, A DEVIATION. UH, THAT'S FROM OUR CODE. UM, THE SMITH SPOT, SMITH SPOT BARBECUE HAD ANOTHER ONE. UM, AGAIN, FOR AWNING SIGN RELATED TO WHERE IN THE AWNING SIGN THE LETTERS ARE GOING. THE ROACH AND FEED ONE, UH, IT WAS A NON-LEGAL, NON-CONFORMING SIGN AT THAT POINT, BUT THEY WERE KINDA RESTORING IT. BUT BECAUSE THEY WERE MOVING IT, GENERALLY THE TRIGGER WAS THAT THEY HAVE TO MAKE IT UP TO STANDARD, WHICH THAT SIGN WOULDN'T MEET TODAY'S STANDARDS. BUT AGAIN, BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, IT WAS ALLOWED TO BE, UH, MOVED WITH THAT TO BE THE SAME SIGN, BUT, UH, MOVED FROM WHERE THEY WERE BEFORE. UM, SO GENERALLY WHAT WE GET IN THE DOWNTOWN WAIVER AREA COULD BE, UH, COULD VARY A LOT DEPENDING ON WHAT BUSINESS, WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR. UM, WE, I DO STILL FEEL THAT, THINGS LIKE THAT, UM, STAFF SHOULD NOT BE MAKING THOSE JUDGMENT CALLS ON WHAT SHOULD GO AND WHAT SHOULDN'T. IT REALLY SHOULD COME FROM THE DECISION. THE POLICYMAKING BODY. THAT'S KIND OF, UH, MY STAFF RECOMMENDATION. WE STILL FEEL LIKE OUR SIGN ORDINANCE DOES HAVE PRETTY GOOD STANDARDS, GENERALLY, [00:05:02] UH, PRETTY STANDARD WITH INDUSTRY PRACTICES. UM, I DO UNDERSTAND IT COULD GET FRUSTRATING FOR BUSINESS OWNERS WHEN THEY HAVE TO, THEY'RE JUST APPLYING FOR A SIGNED PERMIT, BUT THEY, BUT THEN THEY FIND OUT, OH NO, I HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, WAIT FOR THIS LONG TO BE BEFORE PLAN COMMISSION, CITY COUNCIL, SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO ONE CONSIDERATION COULD BE TO ALLOW FOR SOME ADMINISTRATIVE. RIGHT NOW FOR THE DOWNTOWN WAIVER SECTION, THERE ARE SOME MINOR WAIVERS, UH, INCLUDED IN THAT SECTION THAT GIVE STAFF THE RIGHT TO APPROVE SOME STUFF. IT'S JUST, IT DOES, UH, ALLOW STAFF TO ALLOW NEON SIGNS IN DOWNTOWN, ALLOW MARKY SIGN IN DOWNTOWN. IT, IT DOES NOT GIVE STAFF ANY ABILITY TO ALLOW FOR DEVIATIONS IN TERMS OF HEIGHT AND AREA. AND A LOT OF THE TIMES, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE COMING IN, UH, FOR WAIVER REQUESTS. SO, UM, IF COUNSEL, IF THE COMMITTEE, UM, SO WISHES THERE COULD BE A PROVISION, AGAIN, IT'S UP TO Y'ALL TO CONSIDER THE PROS AND CONS COULD BE A PROVISION INCLUDED THAT, HEY, IF IT'S 10% OR LESS DEVIATION, THEN MAYBE ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVER COULD BE BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM. UM, I REALLY DO NOT THINK IT'S WARRANTED RIGHT NOW, BUT, UH, COULD BE DONE TO ENSURE KIND OF FURTHER BUSINESS FRIENDLINESS, ESPECIALLY FOR THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESSES. SO, ON THAT, THAT'S ALL WE HAVE. ALRIGHT. I HAD A JUST BASS YOU, OH, GO AHEAD. WELL, I WAS GONNA ADD A LITTLE CONTACT. SO, UM, SO THE DOWNTOWN PLAN, I'LL SPEAK TO DIRECTLY, AND THE, THE OTHERS, I, I DON'T APPLY. THE, THE DOWNTOWN PLAN WAS, WAS DONE CONTEXTUALLY VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE REST OF THE CITY. AND I'M SURE EVERYBODY RECALLS, BUT JUST FOR REMINDER, THE, THE ORDINANCE IS GEARED TOWARDS A PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE, WHICH MEANS SMALLER SIGNS CLOSER TO HEAD LEVEL, EYE LEVEL, WHATEVER, RATHER THAN VEHICULAR SCALE. SO THAT'S WHY OCCASIONALLY YOU'LL SEE SOME THESE, UH, WAIVER REQUESTS THAT, THAT MAKE GOOD SENSE IN CONTEXT OF WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR. SO LIKE THE ONE THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HOLD IT TO THE, TO THE STANDARD WHERE IT, IT CAN'T BE BELOW 12 FEET IN ORDER FOR THAT SIZE TO BE ALLOWED, WHEN YOU BRING IT DOWN TO 10 FEET, IT NOW HAS TO BE SMALLER BY PERCENTAGE. WELL, IN THAT ONE PARTICULAR CASE, IT'S PROBABLY A VERY REASONABLE REQUEST, BUT IT'S GONNA VARY AND HOW EACH BUILDING APPLIES. SO, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, ALL BUILDINGS ARE NOT THE SAME TOPS. THEY'RE NOT THE SAME HEIGHT, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME AWNINGS. SO JUST SOMETHING TO BEAR IN MIND THAT CITYWIDE, IT'S A MUCH MORE, UH, TARGETED TOWARD VEHICULAR SCALE. THEN WE POLICE THOSE SIGNS, SO TO SPEAK, WITH THOSE ORDINANCES. DOWNTOWN WAS MEANT TO BE AT A MUCH SMALLER SCALE, WHETHER IT'S RIGHT OR WRONG, THAT WAS HOW THAT WAS, WAS WRITTEN BY THE, BY THE, UH, COMP PLAN OR THE SIGN CONSULTANT. THANK YOU. SO COUNCILMAN BASS, THIS WAS YOUR ISSUE YOU BROUGHT UP. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS? UM, WELL, I, I'D LIKE TO SEE, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT'S THE REASONING BEHIND THE REGULATIONS ON, YOU KNOW, AWNINGS ON THE SIGN BEING ON THE AWNING, AS OPPOSED TO NOT BEING ON THE AWNINGS? I KNOW THAT'S NOT JUST DOWNTOWN. UM, SO WHAT, WHAT'S THE REASON FOR THAT? SO, USUALLY IF THERE'S AN AWNING, THE AWNING'S SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE PRINTED LETTERS, RIGHT? SO IF ON THE AWNING THERE ARE SEPARATE LETTERING THAT ARE NOT PRINTED ON THE AWNING, ON A VEHICULAR SCALE, THAT MAY CAUSE SOME DISTRACTIONS IN MY MIND. AND EVEN IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, THE DAS BANDERAS ONE DOES MAKE SENSE, BUT IF YOU IMAGINE EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS, THE AWNING, INSTEAD OF THE AWNING HAVING THE BUSINESS INFORMATION, IF IT'S ON TOP OF THE AWNING, THEN TECHNICALLY THERE'S JUST TWO SIGNS THERE. THE AWNING ITSELF IS A SIGN ITSELF. THEY CAN HAVE SOMETHING IN THERE, OR IT COULD JUST BE A GENERAL AWNING, AND THEN THE SIGN COULD GO ON TOP OF THAT. IT'S NOT, UH, GENERALLY, UM, COMMON PRACTICE TO HAVE SIGNS GO ON TOP OF AN AWNING. UM, BUT AGAIN, IT MAKES SENSE IN CERTAIN AREAS, IN CERTAIN BUSINESSES, IN CERTAIN CONTEXT, YEAH. LIKE DOWNTOWN, IT WOULDN'T MM-HMM . ABOVE THE AWNING WOULD NOT BE AT THE PEDESTRIAN LEVEL. YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE IT. SO IF IT WERE AT THE, THAT'S THE CONCEPT, RIGHT? THAT BANDERA, SO INITIALLY, IF Y'ALL REMEMBER THE PREVIOUS ONE, UH, THE, THE LETTERS AND PRINT THAT WERE PRINTED ON THE AWNING BEFORE, BUT, UM, THEY WANTED TO MAKE IT SO THEY COULD HAVE DONE IT THAT WAY, BUT THEY WANTED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CREATIVE. AND THAT'S THE OTHER THING, UM, IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA SPECIFICALLY, WE WANT THOSE CREATIVE SIGNS. WE WANT THOSE KIND OF DISTINCT FEATURES, BUT THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A SIGN [00:10:01] ORDINANCE THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO CRAFT THAT CAN CONTEMPLATE ALL THOSE CREATIVE IDEAS. SO THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING SOME KIND OF COUNCIL ABILITY TO ALLOW THOSE SPECIAL SITUATIONS. I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS I'M JUST THINKING ON THE AWNING FOR JUST AS AN EXAMPLE MM-HMM . UM, AND NOT DOWNTOWN OTHER. THIS HAS HAP THIS HAS BEEN IN, IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY TOO, UM, WHERE WE'VE HAD REQUESTS COME IN FOR THE SIGN NOT TO BE ON THE AWNING. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAVE A SIGN, IF, IF THE LETTERS ARE PAINTED ON THE AWNING, THEN THAT'S NOT GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT'S BACK LIT AND EASILY VISIBLE FROM THE STREET WHEN DRIVING BY. MM-HMM . SO THAT TO ME WOULD BE, IF I WERE TO HAVE A BUSINESS, I WOULD WANT A SIGN THAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE ROAD WHEN PEOPLE ARE DRIVING BY. SO THAT WOULD NEED TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S BACK LIT. SO THAT WOULD NOT BE ON AN AWNING. UM, I DON'T SEE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE PUTTING THAT RESTRICTION ON BUSINESSES. SO I DON'T THINK THE EXPLANATION FOR ME IS, IS AGAIN, IS NOT A GOOD ENOUGH EXPLANATION FOR WHY WE'RE, WHY WE ARE RESTRICTING THAT. BECAUSE HERE'S THE THING ALSO, UM, YOU KNOW, EVERY SINGLE TIME A BUSINESS OWNER HAS TO COME TO US, NO MATTER WHAT IT'S FOR, OKAY, THAT'S NOT, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY DO AS A REGULAR COURSE OF THEIR BUSINESS, RIGHT? MM-HMM . THERE'S NOBODY THAT DOES A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER AS A REGULAR COURSE OF BUSINESS PLANNING ON GOING TO CITY COUNCIL AND MAKING A PRESENTATION. IT IS A VERY SCARY THING FOR PEOPLE TO DO. IT IS A TEDIOUS PROCESS. IT IS A LONG PROCESS. IT HINDERS THEIR ABILITY TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS AND ALSO MAYBE EVEN SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T FOLLOW THROUGH WITH DOING, BECAUSE IT, IT'S SOMETHING THEY'RE, THAT IS, IT IS TEDIOUS. SO WHEN WE MAKE PEOPLE COME BEFORE US, WHETHER IT'S FOR AN SUP, WHETHER IT'S FOR A WAIVER, WHATEVER IT'S FOR, IT IS NOT A COMFORTABLE OR EASY PROCESS FOR THEM. SO I DON'T LIKE TO, TO SAY, WELL, THEY CAN JUST DO THIS. THEY CAN JUST GET AN SVP, THEY CAN JUST FILE THIS. THEY CAN JUST COME AND TALK TO US ABOUT IT. THAT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE. MM-HMM . FROM THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE AND FROM THAT SIDE OF THE TABLE, IT MAY SEEM THAT SIMPLE, BUT FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT MICROPHONE, IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE. AND SO THAT IS WHY I REALLY, REALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON REMOVING OBSTACLES TO DO IN BUSINESS IN THE CITY. AND I THINK TELLING SOMEBODY THAT YOU HAVE TO PAINT A SIGN ON YOUR AWNING AS OPPOSED TO PUTTING A BACKLIT SIGN ABOVE IT, I THINK THAT'S AN OBSTACLE TO DO IN BUSINESS IN THIS CITY. AND THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE. UM, AND SO THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY I WANNA TALK ABOUT THIS, WHY, THAT'S WHY I WANT TO, AGAIN, MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO DO BUSINESS IN THE CITY. AND I DON'T, I I DON'T ACCEPT THAT, YOU KNOW? WELL, THEY CAN JUST COME TO US AND TALK TO US ABOUT IT. THEY CAN JUST, THEY CAN JUST PRESENT TO CITY COUNCIL. NO, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT AS EASY AS IT SEEMS. THAT'S FINE. IF THE COMMITTEE, UM, HAS, UH, SPECIFIC, UH, TOPICS LIKE THE AWNING ONE, UH, AS WE CAN SEE, THE DOWNTOWN ONE ARE RELATED TO AWNINGS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. BUT AGAIN, THE NEW ONE THAT HAS COME IN THAT'S NOT RELATED TO AWNING, THAT'S RELATED TO HEIGHT AND AREA, AND, UM, THE HEIGHT OF THE SIGN AS IT RELATES TO THE BUILDING HEIGHT, RIGHT? UM, SO WE WILL NEED TO KNOW SPECIFICALLY, UH, WHICH SECTORS THIS COMMITTEE, UH, WANTS TO ADDRESS. UH, AND THEN WE COULD JUST BRING THOSE. BUT AGAIN, WE WANNA KNOW, DO, DO Y'ALL WANT THOSE TO BE JUST SCRAPED FROM THE CODE AND JUST ALLOW THEM, OR JUST HAVE SOME ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVER, WAIVER BILL TO IT? UM, AGAIN, I WOULD JUST SAY THIS, WHAT MAKES SENSE IN DOWNTOWN MAY NOT MAKE SENSE. LIKE, HOW MANY BUSINESSES WOULD YOU SEE IN SHOPPING CENTERS THAT HAS, THAT HAVE AWNINGS AND SIGNS GO ON TOP OF THAT? NOT VERY MANY. THOSE ARE PROBABLY GONNA, MOSTLY 90% OF THOSE ARE GONNA BE WALL SIGNS AND THOSE CAN BE, UM, ILLUMINATED BIGGER AND FROM THE, FROM THE INSIDE AND ALL. SO THERE, THERE ARE OPTIONS FOR ALL OF THAT. UM, WE JUST NEED TO KNOW, UH, WHAT THIS COMMITTEE WANTS IN TERMS OF, HEY, WE WANNA CHANGE THIS. UH, WE HAVE PRESENTED TO YOU WHAT ARE THE GENERAL, WHAT ARE THE GENERAL REQUESTS HAVE BEEN? UM, SO ANYTHING THAT Y'ALL WANNA SEE, WHAT WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA DO, HEY, UM, IF WE WANNA REMOVE THE OBSTACLE FOR AWNING SIGNS, THEN THIS IS WHAT WE CAN DO MAYBE IN DOWNTOWN, THIS IS WHAT WE DO. AND CITY-WISE, WE MAY NOT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING. SO THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE'RE LOOKING FOR FROM THE COMMITTEE. SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, WHAT ARE THE OBJECTIONS FROM THE CITY? WHAT ARE THE, WHAT ARE THE, YOU KNOW, CONCERNS? WHAT ARE THE CONCERNS WITH THE CURRENT, WHAT ARE THE CONCERNS? WHY DO WE HAVE THE RESTRICTIONS ON LOCATION, HEIGHT, AREA? WHY ARE THOSE RESTRICTIONS THERE? RIGHT? THEY HAVE TO BE THERE FOR A REASON. MM-HMM . SO WHAT ARE THEY PROTECTING? SO, GO AHEAD, ANDY. UM, QUITE HONESTLY, UM, UH, A VERY OBNOXIOUS ENVIRONMENT TO DRIVE THROUGH IF THERE'S NOT SOME PARAMETERS, EVERY COMMUNITY HAS TO DECIDE WHAT IT WILL TOLERATE FOR. YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY SUCH, SUCH POLL, WE HAVE SUCH AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF OLD SIGNS THAT ARE VERY LARGE, VERY UNATTRACTIVE, DON'T MEET THE STANDARD, [00:15:01] AND THEY LOOK WILLY-NILLY AND, AND RANDOM. SO WHATEVER THAT LINE IS, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A LINE. AND SO, UM, IF IT'S LOOSENED UP, THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND HOW IT TURNS OUT AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. UM, AND THE OTHER ONE YOU MIGHT BE THINKING OF THAT WAS, UH, WAS AN ISSUE. WAS IT FIRE WHEEL? YEAH, THAT'S AN AWNING THAT I WAS THINKING OF. YEAH. SO, SO THAT WAS IN THAT PD WAS THAT WAY. IT WAS WRITTEN FOR A SIMILAR PEDESTRIAN SCALE EXPERIENCE OKAY. IN AN OUT, DOWN, OUT OUTDOOR DOWNTOWN KIND OF ENVIRONMENT. SO AGAIN, WHATEVER THE COMMITTEE'S PLEASURE IS, WE CAN, YOU KNOW, TAKE A LOOK AT, AT LOOSENING UP VARIOUS THINGS. I JUST TO NALA'S POINT YOU, I KNOW THAT IN PAST COUNCILS THAT HAS BEEN RESTRICTED BECAUSE IT HAS GOTTEN, YOU KNOW, LARGELY UNCONTROLLED AND UNATTRACTIVE. SO, OKAY. I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE, WHAT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE ON, YOU KNOW, LOCATION, LOCATION, HEIGHT AREA THROUGHOUT THE CITY. I'M NOT CONCERNED, I'M NOT CONCERNED WITH JUST DOWNTOWN. I'M CONCERNED WITH THE WHOLE CITY, RIGHT? FOR ALL DIFFERENT TYPE OF SIGNS, WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE FOR. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. ALL THE, I I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR BUSINESSES, RIGHT? MM-HMM . FOR BUSINESS TO PUT UP A SIGN ON THE FRONT OF THEIR BUSINESS. WHAT, WHAT KIND OF RESTRICTIONS ARE THERE? WE CAN DO A REPORT. YEAH. THOSE ARE THE, THE, THOSE ARE ACTUALLY THE SIGN REGULATIONS. SO EVERY, WE HAVE DIFFERENT TYPE OF SIGNS. WE HAVE MONUMENT SIGNS, WE HAVE WALL SIGNS, WE HAVE AWNING SIGNS, WE HAVE PROJECTING SIGNS ON LET'S SAY MONUMENT SIGN. WE HAVE REGULATIONS ON HOW BIG IT COULD BE, WHAT COULD BE THE AREA IF IT'S MULTI-TENANT, UM, HOW BIG EACH PANEL WOULD BE. AND A LOT OF IT IS SOMETIMES RE LIKE KIND OF THOUGHT OF FROM A TRANSPORTATION SAFETY PERSPECTIVE AS WELL. SO I PROBABLY GET TRANSPORTATION IN HERE AND KIND OF PROVIDE THEIR PITCH ON WHAT THEY THINK IS SAFE FOR VEHICULAR ACCESS. . UM, LET'S SAY WHEN IT'S A WALL SIGN, UH, WE HAVE REGULATIONS ON HOW HIGH IT COULD BE. LIKE, IT'S USUALLY BY PROPORTION. SO IF IT'S, IF YOU HAVE A BILL, A FACADE, UM, WHICH IS A HUNDRED FEET, UM, THEN YOUR SIGN COULD BE 15 FEET OR SOMETHING. SO IT'S A PROPORTION. SO WE DON'T WANT ALL OF THE WALL TAKEN UP BY SIGNS. IMAGINE DRIVING THROUGH A CITY WHERE EVERY SINGLE FACADES JUST FILLED WITH SIGNS. AND THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY KIND OF RESTRICTIONS. AND, UM, LIKE ANDY'S POINT, I'VE SEEN, LIKE WE CAN, AGAIN, OURS ISN'T, I WOULDN'T SAY OURS IS, IS TOO RESTRICTIVE. OURS IS PRETTY STANDARD, BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOSEN IT UP. BUT HOWEVER, WAY, EVEN IF WE ALLOW BIGGER SIGN, UM, GENERALLY NOT JUST DOWNTOWN, THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE THAT CASE WHERE SOMEONE'S GONNA WANT EVEN A BIGGER ONE AND MAY WANT TO COME TO PLAN. I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S NOT A WAY FOR US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S, THAT IS IN MY EXPERIENCE, ALWAYS THE CASE. WELL, YEAH. WE'RE NEVER, NEVER GONNA COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE A . RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH, THAT'S ALL. YEAH. YEAH. AND I THINK, I MEAN, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I CAN UNDERSTAND POLE SIGNS, MONUMENT SIGNS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS, YOU KNOW? YEAH. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A REASON FOR ONE 'EM TO COME FORTH. BUT THOSE ARE, I MEAN, THOSE ARE DIFFERENT THAN, YOU KNOW, THE, THE SIGN ON THE FRONT OF YOUR BUILDING, RIGHT. THE WALL SIGN ON MM-HMM . WHATEVER YOU CALL IT. THE, THE SIGN THAT'S ON THE FRONT, THE, ON THE FACADE OF YOUR BUILDING. I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WAS WANTING TO REALLY TO TALK ABOUT ON THIS SIDE. 'CAUSE I MEAN, YEAH, WE DON'T HAVE, I MEAN, HONEST, I CAN ONLY THINK OF ONE TIME, WELL, TWICE, SO, UH, TWICE THAT I CAN THINK OF. WE'VE HAD SIGNS COME TO US FOR HEIGHT OR FOR, YOU KNOW, A, A LOCATION FULL SIGN FOR COMPARED TO A MONUMENT SIGN, THAT KINDA STUFF. YEAH. SO THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. I DON'T THINK THAT HAPPENS THAT MUCH. AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THE CON THAT'S NOT WHY I BROUGHT THIS UP. I MEAN, OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE OTHER, YOU KNOW, REASONS THEY WANNA DISCUSS THAT PART TOO. BUT THAT'S, FOR ME, I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I WANT SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO PUT A SIGN ON THE FRONT OF THEIR BUSINESS. I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, REVIEW IT, REVIEW IT SO MANY TIMES, YOU KNOW, SO. OKAY. BUT I, I WANNA HEAR WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK TOO. ALRIGHT. DEPUTY MAYOR PRO, TIM, THAT'S YOU? I DON'T THINK SO. ARE NOW. OKAY. UM, WELL I BELIEVE EVERYONE DESERVES A SECOND. SO , THAT'S, UM, I DO WANNA KIND OF, UH, THERE ARE A COUPLE LEGAL NON-CONFORMING BUSINESSES AS FAR AS SIGNAGE GOES AND, AND DISTRICT FIVE WHERE YOU HAVE LIKE A AND B FOOD MART ON THE, THE FACADE BACKLIT AND THEN ON THE AWNING CHECK CASHING AND UH, AND OTHER THINGS, VAPE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, UM, AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, I DO WANNA KIND OF WARN AGAINST SOMETHING LIKE THAT BEING A, BEING ABLE TO HAPPEN. WE TALK ABOUT WHAT RESTRICTIONS ABOUT WHAT CAN BE ON THE SIGN. UM, WELL THOSE THAT HAVE A BACKLIT SIGN ON THE FACADE AND THEN AN AWNING AS WELL, RIGHT? SO THEY USE THE AWNING, WHICH TYPICALLY WELL NOW WOULD HAVE THEIR BUSINESS NAME. THEY USE THAT AS LIKE AN ADDITIONAL ADVERTISING POINT [00:20:01] AND IT DOESN'T LOOK GREAT. YEAH, I AGREE. YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S ALL I GOT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. OH, YOUR THOUGHTS? I, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE REALLY WITH OUR CURRENT SIGN ORDINANCE. I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT DOES, I DON'T THINK WE CAN REGULATE WHAT THEY SAY ON THE SIGN. I THINK THAT'S THE FIRST NO ISSUE THAT WE WILL HAVE AN ISSUE WITH. YES, THE ATTORNEY'S WAVING OVER THERE. UH, BUT YOU, YOU WANT TO HAVE A SIGN LARGE ENOUGH TO IDENTIFY THE BUILDING AND LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT'S INSIDE, BUT YOU DON'T WANNA HAVE CLUTTER. I UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES OF THAT ARGUMENT. I'M ALL FOR CUTTING DOWN ON OUR REGULATIONS. THE QUESTION IS, WHAT SPECIFICALLY DO WE WANNA CHANGE THAT INNER SIDE ORDINANCE? I THINK THAT IS WHAT, IF YOU WANT TO BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE. HAVE I I I AM LOOKING AT OUR SIGNED ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, AND YOU CAN'T EXCEED 5% OF THE TOTAL FACADE. AND, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF THOSE TYPE OF REGULATIONS. SO IF WE WANT TO, THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO TAKE A, HAVE THE STAFF GET ALL THOSE TOGETHER AND MAKE A PRESENTATION, THEN I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT AT THE NEXT MEETING. I, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT ALONG WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS FROM STAFF ABOUT WHERE THE, WHERE WE COULD MODIFY IT TO ALLOW MORE FLEXIBILITY EXACTLY WHERE THERE ARE BOTTLENECKS AND YEAH. YEAH, PRIMARILY ON WALL AND AWNING SIGNS. YEAH. YEAH, I THINK SO. YEAH, WE'RE GOOD WITH POLE SIGNS AND MONUMENT SIGNS. OKAY. SO NO PRESENTATION ON MONUMENT OR PROJECTING? JUST MOSTLY WALL AND YEAH. AWNING. OKAY. THAT'S GREAT. YEAH, WE CAN DO THAT. BEFORE WE GO, COUNCILMAN OTS, JUST WANTED TO CHIME IN ON ONE, UH, ONE CASE THAT CAME FORWARD WAS, I THINK IT WAS ANY LAB TESTS THAT WAS ON 78 RIGHT NORTH OF CHRIS ROAD. THAT WAS ONE THAT WAS DISPROPORTIONALITY. THAT, THAT WAS SOMETHING WHERE THEY'D TAKEN A NARROW, THEY HAD A VERY, VERY, VERY NARROW, UM, BUT DEEP, UH, PROJECT AND IT WAS, IT WAS CLEAVED OFF FROM SOMETHING THAT WAS NEXT TO THEM. AND SO THEY WERE ALLOWED THIS ITTY BITTY SIGN THAT'S ALL THAT THEY, THEY WERE ALLOWED. AND SO THAT WAS A PERFECT CASE OF WHERE AN ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVER WOULD'VE BEEN PERFECT FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH MONTHS AND MONTHS OF WAITING TO GET THROUGH IT. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I MEAN I THINK THE, THE PROCESS ACTUALLY WORKS FAIRLY WELL IF WE'VE ONLY HAD 10 REQUESTS IN FIVE YEARS AND IT'S NOT TOO BAD. YEAH, I I REMEMBER THAT CASE AS WELL 'CAUSE THEY'RE, THEY ARE QUITE NARROW IN THERE IF YOU DRIVE BY, IT'S JUST A LITTLE, I KNOW THAT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION HAD TO BE TO DENY, BUT IT WAS, THEY WERE INCREASING IT BY 250% I THINK IT WAS. AND IT WASN'T THAT BIG OF A SIGN WHEN IT WAS DONE. YOU'RE LOOKING AT LIKE, WOW, THAT'S 250% LARGER THAN IT WAS. SO YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU CAN'T SEE WHERE THEIR INTERIOR WALLS END ON THE EXTERIOR FACE OF THE BUILDING. RIGHT. EXACTLY. THAT'S IT. ALRIGHT THEN I THINK IF WE OKAY. HAVE YOUR READY FOR, WE'LL COME BACK AT NEXT MEETING THEN AND DISCUSS AING SIGNS. INVOLVE SIGNS. YES, YES. VERY GOOD. AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM THREE B, HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF SPECIFIC SIGNS. THIS WAS REFERRED TO US BY DEPUTY MAYOR PRO TIM LUCK TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE BEEF HOUSE SIGN AND THE RIDGEWOOD SHOPPING CENTER SIGN. YES. DO YOU WANT ME TO COMMENT FIRST OR, OR IF THERE'S PLEASE GO AHEAD . UM, WE CAN GO AHEAD UM, AND KIND OF TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, WE DO HAVE A HISTORIC SIGN SECTION IN THE ORDINANCE THAT ALLOWS SOMEONE, SO IT HAS TO BE AN APPLICATION FROM THE APPLICANT. IT DOESN'T SAY WHO HAS TO APPLY PROPERTY OWNER SLASH TENANT. I THINK EITHER ONE'S FINE, IT JUST SAYS AN APPLICATION. AND THEN COUNSEL HAS THE RIGHT TO DECLARE A SIGN HISTORIC BASED ON THAT APPLICATION. THERE ARE CERTAIN CRITERIA, SO MATERIALS, TECHNOLOGY AND DESIGN, IT HAS TO BE ARCHITECTURALLY AND AESTHETICALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PERIOD OF CONSTRUCTION THAT EXISTED 50 YEARS OR PRIOR. SO IN A SENSE, THE SIGN HAS TO BE 50 YEARS OR OLDER. UH, INTEGRITY, MAJORITY OF ITS DEFINING CHARACTER, DEFINING ITEMS SHOULD STILL BE HERE IF CERTAIN ONES HAVE BEEN REMOVED. IT DOESN'T, IT'S NOT TOO SPECIFIC. IT JUST SAYS MAJORITY OF THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES SHOULD STILL BE THERE FOR US TO IDENTIFY IT AS A HISTORIC SIGN. SHOULD BE STRUCTURALLY SAFE, UM, SHOULDN'T BE IN A BILLBOARD. UM, AND THEN AGAIN, DATE OF CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE MORE THAN 50 YEARS OR BEFORE. WE DO HAVE, UM, AN ABILITY, UH, WITH IF WITH AFFIRMATIVE VOTE OF SEVEN MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL ASSIGNED, THAT'S LESS THAN 50 YEARS OLD BUT MORE THAN 25 YEARS OLD CAN BE DECLARED HISTORIC. BUT IT WOULD REQUIRE SEVEN MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL TO VOTE AFFIRMATIVELY ON THAT. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. NOW SOME OF THE REALISTIC CHALLENGES AND ANDY WILL FILL YOU ALL IN MORE ONTO THAT, BUT, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, THE BEEF HOUSE RESTAURANT, WE [00:25:01] WANTED TO KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. UM, THERE ARE TWO, AND I THINK THE NEXT ITEM IS LISTED AS SEPARATE ONE, THE FACADE IMPROVEMENT ONE. BUT IF WE CAN KIND OF TALK GENERALLY ABOUT IT. IS THAT OKAY? SURE, PLEASE. YEAH. SO THE FACADE IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM DOES ALLOW, LIKE, IT IS LIKE SIGN HISTORIC SIGNS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR A FACADE IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. THE ISSUE ON THE B FILE SIGN WAS THAT THE TENANT WASN'T READY BECAUSE IT'S A MATCHING GRANT. THE CITY CANNOT DO ALL OF IT. THEY WEREN'T READY, THEY WEREN'T PERMITTING, THE PROPERTY OWNER WASN'T PERMITTING TO DO, UM, A MATCHING GRANT. THAT'S WHY IT COULDN'T WORK. UM, I THINK THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE THAT I WANTED TO MENTION. UM, WELL I'LL LET ANDY CHIME IN AND IF I REMEMBER, I THINK YOU NAILED IT AND I THINK YOU MAY HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, UM, ABOUT THAT AREA. I KNOW YOU'VE HAD SOME KIND CONTACT IN A COUPLE OF, COUPLE OF SHOPPING CENTERS. THERE ARE SIMILAR ISSUES. I THINK IT'S A LITTLE TRICKY THAT UM, THE, THE RESTAURANT IS A TENANT DOESN'T OWN THE LAND. THEY'D HAVE TO HAVE PERMISSION FROM THE LANDOWNER, WHICH I'M SURE COULD BE WORKED OUT. BUT I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS IT'S A MATCHING GRANT AND I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE THEY'D WANT TO DO THAT. IS THERE A PATHWAY FORWARD? ABSOLUTELY. THE GRANT'S QUITE FLEXIBLE AND CAN BE USED FOR, IT DOESN'T DIS DISTINGUISH BETWEEN SIGNS. IT DOESN'T EXCLUDE 'EM, IT DOESN'T EX YOU KNOW, MATTER IF IT'S HISTORIC OR REGULAR. UM, NOW WE GENERALLY WANT THE PROGRAM TO GO TOWARDS MUCH MORE AND THEN THE SIGN COULD ABSOLUTELY BE PART OF IT. BUT IN A CASE LIKE THIS OR ANOTHER SIGN THAT I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE IS PROBABLY HISTORIC BY THE DEFINITION. YOU KNOW, I I THINK THIS BUSINESS HAS BEEN AROUND 70 YEARS NOW. I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THE SIGN HAS BEEN THERE, BUT SURELY IT'S MEETS THE 25, RIGHT? SO IT MEETS THE 50. IT, YEAH, SO IT COULD PROBABLY CHECK ALL THE RIGHT BOXES. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF IF THEY WANT TO, UM, IF THERE'S SOME OTHER AVENUES YOU WANT US TO EXPLORE, WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT. 'CAUSE I KNOW WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT, YOU KNOW, AND MANY OTHERS HA HAVE A SHOT AT BEING AS FRESH AND, AND LOOK THE WAY THEY WERE WHEN THEY FIRST WERE BUILT 'CAUSE THEY'RE JUST KIND OF COOL. UM, SO THERE IS A PATHWAY IS THE, IS THE GOOD NEWS. UM, IS THERE A, A PATHWAY WITHOUT APPLICATION FROM THE LANDOWNER? THAT'S THE WAY THE PROCESS IS SET UP RIGHT NOW. AND I THINK, UM, IF THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO CHANGE, WE COULD, I'D, I'D PROBABLY NEED TO WORK WITH LEGAL TEAM AND I, I'M SITTING IN FOR YAKO, SHE'S ON SPRING BREAK. UM, WE COULD LOOK AT THE MECHANICS OF THAT. I'M SURE IT'S A A, A REASONABLE CHANGE THAT WE COULD MAKE THAT IT, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY IT'S JUST SPIT BALLING. MAYBE IF IT'S APPROVED, UH, THE CITY APPROVES THAT IT'S HISTORIC, WE COULD ALSO BE THE APPLICANT IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER. SO WE COULD CERTAINLY LOOK AT THE POSSIBILITY OF THAT. SO THAT'S FOR THE FACADE IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, FOR THE HISTORIC FOR COUNSEL TO DECLARE A SIGN HISTORIC. IT DOESN'T, RIGHT. YOU GOT AN APPLICATION TOO, RIGHT? IT, THEY NEED TO HAVE AN APPLICATION, BUT IT DOESN'T SAY WHO HAS TO APPLY. I THINK THE TENANT, IT'S THEIR SIGN. IT'S THE TENANT SIGN. THE TENANT IN MY OPINION, CAN APPLY. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE GDC THAT SAYS THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS TO APPLY FOR A SIGN TO BE HISTORIC. I THINK THE TENANT CAN APPLY FOR THAT. BUT FOR THE MATCHING GRANT, IT HAS TO BE RIGHT NOW THE PROPERTY OWNER AND YEAH, WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT THAT IT DOESN'T SPECIFY. WELL I CAN TELL YOU NOW THAT NEITHER THE TENANT NOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, UM, WOULD WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO ANYTHING AT ALL, WHICH HAS KIND OF BEEN THE PROBLEM IN THAT SHOPPING CENTER IN THE FIRST PLACE. AND ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS THAT ANY MORE DAMAGE TO THAT SIGN WILL RESULT IN THEM JUST TAKING IT DOWN. UM, AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO PRESERVE THAT SIGN, EVEN OFFER TO, UH, LIKE, OH, I WAS HOPING THERE COULD BE LIKE A WAY TO DO SOME KIND OF THREE 80 AGREEMENT OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD GIVE THE CITY CONTROL OVER THAT SIGN IF THEY PAID TO REPAIR IT. AND THEN IF ANYTHING HAPPENED IN THE FUTURE, WE COULD MOVE IT SOMEWHERE OR, YOU KNOW, JUST SOME, SOME WAY TO PROTECT IT, I GUESS IS, IS REALLY WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR WITH THE RIDGEWOOD SIGN AS WELL. I MEAN THEY'RE JUST, THEY ARE DEFINITELY OUTSIDE OF THAT 50 YEAR RANGE. UM, ON THE, ON THE OLDER END. , I'M, I'M PRETTY SURE THAT SIGN, THE BEEF HOUSE SIGN SPECIFICALLY HAS BEEN THERE SINCE, I MEAN, I'VE SEEN PICTURES OF ORCHARD HILLS FROM THE FIFTIES AND IT WAS THERE, SO I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S, IT'S IT'S MEETS THAT REQUIREMENT AT LEAST. BUT UM, LIKE I SAID, IT'S ALREADY IN SOME DISREPAIR AND IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE ORCHARD HILLS SIGN THAT'S IN THE SAME SHOPPING CENTER, UM, THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A BACK AND FORTH TO GET THAT SIGN AT LEAST LOOKING NICE AFTER IT WAS, UH, REPAIRED . SO. AND ANDY, DO YOU WANT, DO YOU WANNA TOUCH ON HOW CODE COMPLIANCE CAN COME [00:30:01] INTO PLAY ON THAT? WELL, YEAH, AS I'M SITTING, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SITTING THERE THINKING ABOUT WHAT THAT CIRCLE MIGHT LOOK LIKE. I, YOU KNOW, IF IT, IF IT'S LEGAL NON-CONFORMING AND IT'S DAMAGED BEYOND 60%, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO FIX IT OR REMOVE IT. RIGHT? . SO THEN IF THEY'RE REQUIRED TO REPAIR IT AND IT DOESN'T HAVE A HISTORICAL DESIGNATION, THEY COULD MAKE IT COMPLY AND IT WON'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE WHAT IT IS. SO AT A MINIMUM IT MIGHT NEED A HISTORICAL DESIGNATION. SO WE'LL EXPLORE THE LEGALLY JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE APPLICATION, HOW THAT CAN, YOU KNOW, CAN HAPPEN. UM, AND THEN O YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN A OUTRIGHT ACQUISITION, I DON'T KNOW, WE'LL HAVE TO EXPLORE KINDA WHAT OUR LEGAL BOUNDARIES ARE ON THAT. BUT I'M JOTTING DOWN SOME YOUR NOTES AND SOME IDEAS. OKAY. I MEAN THAT'S REALLY MY, MY CONCERN IS TO PRESERVE IT IN ANY WAY AND IF THERE ARE SOME, UH, THOUGHTFUL RECOMMENDATIONS ON DOING SO , I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THEM. , IS IT MOSTLY JUST THIS SIGN ON THE RIDGEWOOD SHOPPING CENTER ONE OR IS THERE ANY OTHER SIGN JUST JUST SO WE CAN LOOK AT LONG LIST? WELL, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE ON GARLAND. IT'S THE GARLAND FLOWER SHOP, UM, SHOPPING CENTER. MM-HMM. THE GATE WHAT? RIDGE GATE AL OR RIDGEWOOD SHOP? RI WELL RIDGEWOODS IN THIS LIST. SO IT WAS RIDGEWOOD AND BEEF HOUSE THAT I, I ASKED ABOUT SPECIFICALLY, BUT THE GARLAND FLOWER SHOP IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE MID-CENTURY SIGNS THAT UM, THAT'S REALLY COOL AND DOESN'T NECESSARILY, THERE'S NO FLOWER SHOP THERE ANYMORE, BUT THEY'VE KEPT IT FOR A LONG TIME JUST BECAUSE IT'S SO COOL. IT MOVED. DID IT REALLY? YEAH. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT USED TO BE THERE. HUH? I DID NOT KNOW THAT. SO YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY THEN MAYBE A SIGN GARDEN ART DISPLAY , WHICH WOULD BE REALLY NEAT. I MEAN, TO HAVE, UH, IN ROANOKE, VIRGINIA, THEY HAVE THIS, UM, MUNICIPAL BUILDING WHERE THEY HAVE ALL OF THE OLD SIGNS FROM THEIR TOWN DISPLAYED IN THIS, UH, REALLY LONG HALLWAY AND IT'S LIKE, IT'S REALLY NEAT, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST TO HAVE THAT WALK DOWN MEMORY LANE AND I'M NOT EVEN FROM THERE. SO YEAH, WE'LL EXPLORE THAT TOO. OKAY. JUST AS A MM-HMM . JUST AS AN OPTION, IF THERE ARE SIGNS THAT LIKE THE ISLAND OF MISFIT TOYS THAT NEED A HOME, WE CAN GO DOWN THAT IN TERMS OF GRANT FUNDING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHAT, WHAT DID WE DO FOR THE GARLAND SHOPPING CENTER? I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT'S A, IT'S AN AGREEMENT WITH THE SHOPPING CENTER OWNER. UM, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN IT PER THAT UH, AGREEMENT WHEN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEAL WAS MADE FOR THAT LAND. SO THEY CAN'T TEAR IT DOWN. NO. AND THEY HAVE TO REPAIR THE NEONS. THEY HAVE TO KEEP IT IN EXACTLY THE SAME, UH, . YEAH, THAT PREDATES ME, BUT I THINK THEY JUST WE'RE A WILLING PARTNER, RIGHT? MM-HMM . YEAH, I THINK PEOPLE PUSH PRETTY HARD TO GET IT THERE. OKAY. YEAH. GOT IT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THAT ITEM THEN? YES SIR. COUNCILMAN BASS. THANK YOU. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF A HISTORICAL DESIGNATION ON THE SIGN? WHAT'S THE BENEFIT? SO THESE SIGNS WOULD BE, UM, NON-CONFORMING TO TODAY'S STANDARDS, RIGHT? SO BY DESIGNATING IN HISTORIC, IF IT EVER GETS DAMAGED OR WHATEVER, THEY CAN BE REPAIRED OR RECONSTRUCTED TO ITS ORIGINAL STATE, WHICH IS WHAT WE WOULD WANT, WHICH IS THE HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE OF IT, RATHER THAN IN OTHER CASES, IF IT'S NOT HISTORIC, THEN THEY'LL HAVE TO BRING IT BACK TO TODAY'S STANDARD. OKAY. COOL. THAT MAKES SENSE. THANK YOU. I WAS CURIOUS WHAT THAT WAS FOR. OKAY. YEAH. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS ON THIS ITEM? NO. ALRIGHT THEN WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO, I GUESS, BRINGING MORE INFORMATION ON THAT AT A FUTURE MEETING. YES SIR. AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM THREE C, FACADE IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, HISTORICAL SIGNS. THIS WAS ALSO BROUGHT BY DEPUTY MAYOR PRO, TIM LUCK AND, UH, WE HAD A LITTLE DISCUSSION ON THIS, BUT WE CAN KEEP GOING WITH THIS ON THIS ITEM. YEAH. BASICALLY KIND OF AN EXTENSION OF WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. UM, FINDING A WAY TO USE THE FACADE IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM TO HELP THOSE HISTORICAL SIGNS. UM, I, I DO REALIZE THERE'S A MATCHING GRANT THERE, BUT I THINK IN MOST CASES THE PROPERTY OWNERS OR WHOEVER THE TENANT IS AT, AT ANY OF THE THREE LOCATIONS WE, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT ARE PROBABLY NON WILLING PARTICIPANTS. SO, UM, IT WAS JUST ANOTHER WAY TO ADDRESS THE HISTORICAL. YEAH. OKAY. WE'LL EXPLORE SOME OPTIONS [00:35:01] OUTSIDE OF THAT SCENARIO. GREAT, THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMENT QUESTIONS? MM-HMM. ALRIGHT, WELL IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO THE PRESENTATIONS COMING UP IN THE FUTURE. AND WITH THAT BEING THE LAST ITEM AT 4 35, WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU, ANDY. DO YOU HAVE A MINUTE? OKAY. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.