* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:08]
          ALL RIGHT. 
          WELL, GOOD EVENING EVERYONE. 
          THANK YOU TO OUR CITIZENS JOINING US TO OUR STAFF FOR PREPARING TONIGHT'S MATERIALS AND TO EVERY MEMBER OF THIS COMMITTEE FOR YOUR TIME AND COMMITMENTS. 
          THIS IS THE SECOND MEETING OF OUR NINE MONTH PUBLIC PROCESS. 
          OUR PURPOSELY SIMPLE AND IMPORTANT IMPROVE ONE, IMPROVE PUBLIC SAFETY, UH, TWO, SUPPORT AND HEALTH. 
          UH, SUPPORT THE HEALTH AND WELLBEING OF OUR HIGHER AND EMF PROFESSIONALS. 
          AND THREE, ENSURE THE LONG-TERM FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY FOR GARLAND. 
          ALL MEETINGS ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC WITH POSTED AGENDAS AND MATERIALS. 
          WE'LL CONTINUE TO STUDY OUR CURRENT 24 48 SCHEDULE AND OUR EMS SERVICE MODEL ALONGSIDE POTENTIAL ALTERNATIVES, BRINGING FORWARD BALANCED, DATA-DRIVEN RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          AT THE END OF THE PROCESS. 
          I'D LIKE TO THANK, UH, EVERYONE AGAIN FOR BEING HERE. 
          AND SO LET'S BEGIN. 
          AND ONE THING TO MENTION IS THAT, TO MAKE IT EASIER TO BE ABLE TO KEEP MINUTES, IT'S BEEN A REQUEST, IS THAT WE STATE OUR NAME BEFORE OUR COMMENTS. 
          UH, LET'S SEE. 
          ITEM TWO IS, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS. 
          WE NOW HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS. 
          SPEAKERS HAVE THREE MINUTES EACH. 
          PLEASE BEGIN BY STATING YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE. 
          AND REMEMBER TO ALL, WE WILL LISTEN RESPECTFULLY AND THE PROCESS. 
          SO THE PROCESS WORKS BEST WHEN EVERY VOICE IS VALUED. 
          I'LL GIVE A GENTLE CUE WHEN YOUR TIME IS UP. 
          AND TONIGHT WE HAVE, UH, MICHAEL MC, MICHAEL MC ON DOWN. 
          I'M A ONE MAN WITH A QUESTION, SO I PROMISED MS. LUCK I WOULD BEHAVE. 
          SO I, MY NAME'S MIKE MCGREGOR. 
          I LIVE IN GARLAND AT 1506 CLEARPOINT DRIVE. 
          I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT OF GARLAND FOR OVER 30 YEARS. 
          I HAVE A LITTLE EXPERIENCE IN EMS, FIRE RESCUE PRIVATE AMBULANCES AND VOLUNTEER AMBULANCES OVER MY INDUSTRY AND CAREER. 
          SO I'M VERY INTERESTED IN THIS PROPOSAL AND WHERE IT COMES FROM AND WHY. 
          I UNDERSTAND THE SCHEDULING SYSTEM THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED AND THE INFLUENCE IT WOULD HAVE ON EMS, BUT I'VE ALSO SEEN THE TREND IN PRIVATE AMBULANCES ACROSS THE COUNTRY BEING REPLACED BY THE CITIES BECAUSE THE QUALITY OF SERVICE WAS NOT THERE. 
          OKAY? OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT, OUR EMS GUYS, THEY'RE THE SAME PEOPLE. 
          THEY ARE PHENOMENAL. 
          THEY AIR FORCE CONSTANTLY. 
          THEY PUT THE DALLAS FIRE DEPARTMENT TO SHAME. 
          AND I WORK WITH THE DALLAS FIRE DEPARTMENT A LOT. 
          I CAN SAY THAT HONESTLY, THEY'RE CARING. 
          THEY'RE PART OF THE COMMUNITY. 
          THEY'RE NOT SOMEBODY THAT'S COMING IN AND WORKING A SHIFT AND LEAVING AND BEING TRANSFERRED SOMEWHERE ELSE IN 30 DAYS. 
          WHEN WE HAVE PROBLEMS IN THIS TOWN, IT REQUIRES A MASSIVE EMS RESPONSE. 
          WE HAVE AN UNTOLD NUMBER OF PARAMEDICS AND EMTS AVAILABLE TO US. 
          , PRIVATE AMBULANCE SERVICE IS GONNA HAVE TO SCRAMBLE, FIND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES, BE ON THE AMBULANCE TO SOCIETY. 
          YOU GET IT IN CASE OF A MAJOR DISASTER. 
          OBVIOUSLY, I'M NOT FAVOR WITH THIS PROPOSAL AS A TAXPAYER, I DON'T CARE. 
          WHAT DO YOU WANT? DO YOU WANT A HUNDRED DOLLARS NOW? YOU WANT TICKET ON MY TAXES EVERY YEAR? I DON'T CARE. 
          BUT I DO NOT WANNA LOSE THE CARLAND FIRE DEPARTMENT. 
          EMS OR SERVICE HAS BEEN THERE, HAS CARED FOR US. 
          AND QUITE HONESTLY, I'M 71 NOW. 
          I MAY NEED 'EM SOON. 
          AND I WANT IT TO BE THOSE GUYS COMING. 
          NOT SOMEBODY WITH LESSER TRAINING, LESSER MORALS AND LESSER LEVEL, LESSER LEVELS OF CARE. 
          OKAY? ANYBODY WANTS TO SEE MY EXPERIENCE IN THE INDUSTRY IF IT'S AVAILABLE? THANK YOU, SIR. 
          IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD CARE TO SPEAK IN CITIZEN COMMENTS? GO THE CARDS. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL, ITEM THREE, WE HAVE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES. 
          UH, NEXT TO APPROVE THE, UH, SEPTEMBER 10TH, 2025 MEETING MINUTES. 
          WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE. 
          MOTION TO APPROVE THIS PRESENTED MOTION BY COUNCIL MEMBER  AND A SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER DUTTON. 
          ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. 
          PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. 
          [00:05:02]
ALRIGHT. 
          UH, NEXT WE HAVE FOUR A. 
          WE'RE GONNA BE ADDRESSING QUESTIONS FROM THE SEPTEMBER 10TH MEETING. 
          AND LAISHA, YOU HAD LIKE QUEUE UP. 
          YES. 
          AND SO, UM, JUST TO SET THE STAGE OF HOW WE CLAIM TO PROCEED FOR NEXT, UH, SEVERAL MONTHS, THE COMMITTEE DOES HAVE QUESTIONS THAT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO ADDRESS. 
          UM, WE THOUGHT WE WILL BE PREPARED TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU AT THE FOLLOWING MEETING. 
          UNFORTUNATELY, FORTUNATELY, WITH ALL TODAY'S QUESTIONS AND FOLLOW UP FROM LAST MONTH, CHIEF GONNA HANDLE THOSE. 
          SO I'LL TASK IT OVER TO HIM. 
          SOME YES. 
          AVERAGE WAIT TIME OUNCES, HOSPITALS GOT THAT REPORT THIS MORNING OVER THE LAST 12 MONTH PERIOD. 
          AVERAGE WAS 20, WAS THE HIGH SIDE. 
          10 YEARS DOWN THERE WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT ANOTHER FOUR ASHLEY'S NUMBERS. 
          UM, FOR SOME REASON EITHER SEVEN OR 14 MINUTES COMES TO THAT. 
          14. 
          THE ONE WAS FIVE AND THE HIGH WAS 20. 
          YEAH. 
          THE LAST 10 REPORTED THAT IS MAYBE MAY BE ABLE SPEAK TO THIS BETTER FROM AN OPERATION STANDPOINT. 
          UH,  FROM TYLER ARRIVAL AT THE HOSPITAL TO PATIENT TRANSFER TIME. 
          UM, IS THAT HOW Y'ALL LOGGING IT? UH, YES SIR. 
          PROBABLY, I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S A FEW THINGS THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN BEFORE, UM, LIKE AS WE'RE WALKING IS, I MEAN, THEY HAD TO USUALLY GET CHECKED IN AND ARRIVE AND EVERYTHING BEFORE WE ACTUALLY CHECKED FROM OVER TO THE NURSE. 
          SO SEVEN MINUTES PROBABLY PRETTY ACCURATE. 
          UM, IT'S RIGHT THERE. 
          THE AVERAGE WAS 10 AND 10 MINUTES TO 12 SECONDS. 
          THIS WAS ON 13,000 PATIENTS JUST UNDER THE LONGEST AT, UH, TEXAS HEALTH PLANO AT 20 MINUTES. 
          AND THE SHORTEST OF CITY  OF FIVE MINUTES, WHICH IS A STANDALONE DEPARTMENT. 
          SO THAT'S QUESTION ONE. 
          UH, BREAKDOWN AND CALL. 
          THIS WAS THE HANDOUT THAT WAS HANDED OUT EARLIER. 
          WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED STARTING IN OCTOBER OF 18 FOR EMS AND NON EMS. UH, I THINK THE REQUEST WAS FOR EMS AND FIRE CALLS, BUT THE ENGINES MAKE A LOT OF CALLS THAT ARE NOT FIRES. 
          SO THIS WOULD BE NON EMS RELATED AS THAT SECOND ROW. 
          UM, FROM OCTOBER 18 TO SEPTEMBER 25, UH, WE CALL A, UH, INCREASE IN EMS CALLS 17%. 
          A NON EMS CUT UP 22%. 
          THE TOTAL CALL VOLUME INCREASE OF 19% OVER THAT, THAT PERIOD STILL 70 YARD 12 PERIOD. 
          YES, MA'AM. 
          UM, MARGARET, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW MANY FIRES THERE HAVE BEEN EVERY YEAR THAT THE ENGINES HAVE GONE TO SPECIFIC JUSTIFY YOUR CALLS. 
          CALLS WERE FIRED. 
          SO DO YOU ANY GAS IN A CALL? AH, WELL, I GUESS MAYBE WHAT, WHAT ALL IS INCLUDED IN THE NON EMS? I MEAN, THAT SEEMS LIKE IT COULD BE A PRETTY BROAD, ANYTHING THAT DID NOT INCLUDE A PATIENT IS A, NOT EMS CALL. 
          SO GAS LEAK A, UH, DOWN POWER LINE. 
          UM, THE STRUCTURED FIRES A CHLOR A, UH, THERE'S SO MANY , A A STEAM MISTAKEN FOR SMOKE TYPE CALL. 
          I CAN, I CAN INTERJECT IF THAT HELPS. 
          UM, SO THE TIM , UH, THE NUMBERS THAT I HAVE, AT LEAST FROM WHAT I'VE LOOKED AT WITH THE CALL VOLUMES, UM, MY YEAR END TOTAL, WELL, THAT'S IN OCTOBER, SEPTEMBER, SO I DID CALENDAR YEAR, UM, FIRE CALLS WAS  AS A FIRE CALL. 
          UH, WAS, UH, I IN CALENDAR YEAR 20 24, 6 56. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          FIRE CALLS. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER CLASSIFICATIONS I CAN GO AROUND AROUND IT, SO, OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WHAT WAS THE NUMBER AGAIN, PLEASE? 6 56. 
          6 56. 
          AND THAT IS STRUCTURAL SMALL FIRES, GRASS FIRES, TRASH FIRES, ALL, ALL ACTIVE FIRES. 
          IT HAS TO BE ON CALL. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE ALARMS. ALARMS IS SEPARATE. 
          THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL, UH, 1,395 PLUS. 
          THERE'S SOME OTHER TYPES OF LIKE, GOOD INTENTION ALARMS. SO I, I MEAN, I WORK WITH CHIEF AND, AND PROVIDE A BREAKDOWN OF THAT. 
          THAT HELPS AND, AND CERTAINLY COULD DO THAT. 
          NO, THOSE ARE, THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION. 
          THANK YES, THANK YOU. 
          THE, I'M SORRY, I'M STILL UNCLEAR. 
          THERE'S NON EMS IS THAT WHEN A FIRETRUCK 
          [00:10:02]
GOES OUT OF THE HOUSE BY ITSELF? BY ITSELF, OKAY. 
          NOT ASSISTING. 
          WHEN AN AMBULANCE GOES OUT AND THEY'RE BEHIND THEM, IT'S NOT AS AN ASSIST. 
          THAT'S PART OF EMS, THAT'S PART OF EMS. GREAT. 
          WE CAN GET UNIT RESPONSES BROKEN OUT IF Y'ALL WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT AT SOME POINT TO SHOW EVERY UNIT YOU MAY. 
          SO HE'S GOT HOW MANY CALLS FOR SERVICE ENGINE? ONE ANSWER. 
          HOW MANY AMBULANCE WANT ANSWER. 
          AND WILL THOSE CALLS, I'M SORRY, WILL THOSE CALLS INCLUDE LIKE, AMBULANCE ONE IS ON THEIR WAY AND THEY DISREGARD ENGINE TWO OR ENGINE ONE RATHER BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING AND, UM, THEY PRETTY MUCH KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN THERE. 
          AND THEY DON'T NEED ENGINE ONE TO ASSIST. 
          IT'S ONE OF THOSE REPEAT THINGS. 
          ENGINE ONE IS DISPATCHED IN ROUTE AND IT GETS CANCELED FOR WHATEVER REASON. 
          THAT NUMBER COUNTS AS A CALL FOR SERVICE. 
          OKAY. 
          FOR THAT UNIT. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE BREAKDOWN AS FAR AS, UH, BY APPARATUS, SO BY AMBULANCE, BY FIRE AND ALL THAT. 
          THAT'D BE GREAT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THAT WAS JASON LER BY THE WAY. 
          BACK LIST OF QUESTIONS. 
          THE CITY SHIFTED TO 24 7 2, WHAT DID THEIR OVERTIME LOOK LIKE BEFORE THEY MADE THE SHIFT? HAD NOT EXPLORED THOSE CITIES YET. 
          SO THAT STILL THINGS TO BE EXPLORED. 
          UM, AND A PERCENTAGE OF PARTS FROM METROPLEX, THAT ALTERNATIVE, THAT SURVEY DOES NOT FOLLOW UP ON THOSE NEXT. 
          ALRIGHT, WE'LL NOW, UH, I WILL NOW TRANSITION INTO ITEM FOUR B, WHICH IS STATED THE EMS INDUSTRY TRENDS, CHALLENGES, AND OPPORTUNITIES TO SET THE STAGE ALL RECOGNIZE OUR CITY MANAGER RES  COMMENTS. 
          THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. 
          UM, SO BEFORE I, UH, KIM COMES UP HERE, UH, I JUST TAKE A MINUTE TO KIND OF TALK ABOUT WHAT HIS ROLE IS IN THE COMMITTEE AND WHY HE'S HERE AND, AND THAT SORT OF THING. 
          UM, SO THE CITY'S ENGAGED TIM NOAC WITH, UM, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SOLUTIONS, UM, THROUGHOUT THIS NINE MONTH ENGAGEMENT. 
          AND HIS ROLE REALLY IS TO ADD VALUE AND PERSPECTIVE TO THE COMMITTEE. 
          UM, THAT'S TO, TO BREAK IT DOWN. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY WHAT, WHY TIM'S HERE. 
          UM, OUR AND THE COMMITTEE'S GOAL, OF COURSE, IS TO EXPLORE, UM, SUSTAINABLE FIRE AND EMS PUBLIC SAFETY MODEL, UH, FOR THE FUTURE. 
          SO, UM, THE, I KNOW I'VE GOTTEN SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT, WELL, WHY, WHY IS HE HERE? WE HAVE A LOT OF FIRE AND EMS EXPERTS ON, ON STAFF ALREADY. 
          AND, AND JUST TO BE FRANK, TIM'S NOT FROM GARLAND, UH, AS YOU COULD TELL BY WAY TALKS, RIGHT?  PRETTY OBVIOUS. 
          , UH, TIM IS FROM OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITY, AND SO HE PROVIDES AN OUTSIDE PERSPECTIVE. 
          UM, HE'S, UH, HE HAS IN, IN THE LINE OF HIS WORK, UM, LOOKED ACROSS THE, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, UH, THE PATCHWORK OF FIRE AND EMS MODELS. 
          AND, UH, AND HE'S GONNA PRESENT ON THAT TONIGHT AS FAR AS WHAT OPTIONS AND SOLUTIONS ARE OUT THERE. 
          AND, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA GET A, A TASTE OF TONIGHT. 
          NOW, INEVITABLY, TIM'S GONNA THROW SOMETHING UP THERE ON THE SCREEN THAT, UM, IS DIFFERENT THAN THE WAY WE DO THINGS HERE IN GARLAND. 
          UM, AND, AND AT THE, TRYING NOT TO GET US OFF TRACK, PERHAPS LIKE AFTER THE LAST MEETING, JUST BECAUSE IT'S ON A SLIDE UP HERE DOESN'T MEAN THE CITY OF GARLAND'S GONNA PURSUE THIS. 
          UM, WHAT WORKS IN IN ONE COMMUNITY MAY NOT WORK HERE IN GARLAND. 
          SO AGAIN, TIM'S HERE TO ADD VALUE AND PERSPECTIVE, UH, FROM AN OUTSIDE LENS, UH, THAT IS UNBIASED AND, AND NOT, UH, NOT, AGAIN, FROM INSIDE OF GARLAND'S BUBBLE INSIDE THE GARLANDS BUBBLE. 
          AND, AND THAT'S WHY HE'S HERE. 
          SO, UH, THIS IS FOR THE COMMITTEE TO HAVE PERSPECTIVE AND TO ADD VALUE TO THE CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE GOING ON. 
          UM, AND AS WE ENGAGED TIM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE ASKED HIM TO DO IS TO POKE HOLES IN, IN WHAT'S, WHAT'S TALKED ABOUT, DISCUSSED AS A COMMITTEE, UH, AND TO CHALLENGE OUR ASSUMPTIONS AND TO QUESTION, UH, QUESTION KIND OF WHAT, WHAT DATA'S PUT OUT THERE. 
          AND, AND TIM'S ALSO GONNA BE HELPING US ASSEMBLE SOME OF THAT DATA. 
          AS YOU SAW, HE'S GOT, UH, HAS KIND OF WHAT A PROFILE OF WHAT OUR CALL PROFILE AND, AND WHAT THE INFORMATION LOOKS LIKE HERE IN GARLAND. 
          AND 
          [00:15:01]
SO, UH, HE'S HERE TO ADD VALUE. 
          AND, AND TONIGHT, UH, HE'S REALLY GONNA TALK ABOUT WHAT THE PATCHWORK OF, UH, FIRE AND EMS LOOKS LIKE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND WHAT ARE THE TRENDS, UH, 'CAUSE THERE CERTAINLY ARE A LOT OF TRENDS. 
          THINGS ARE CHANGING. 
          THAT'S PART OF WHY THIS COMMITTEE IS TOGETHER, IS, UM, SO THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND THE, THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE INDUSTRY AND FRANKLY HAPPENING HERE LOCALLY, WITHIN OUR, WITHIN OUR FIRE EMS FOOTPRINT IN THE DFW METROPLEX. 
          SO, AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE IT SHOWS UP ON A SLIDE ON TIM'S PRESENTATION, DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE CITY'S GONNA PURSUE THAT. 
          THAT'S WHY THIS COMMITTEE IS HERE. 
          AND, AND THAT'S ULTIMATELY GONNA BE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COME OUT OF THIS COMMITTEE. 
          SO, JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT AROUND THAT AND, AND, UH, INTRODUCE EVERYBODY TO TIM, UH, AND, UH, LET HIM TAKE IT FROM THERE. 
          WELL, THANK YOU. 
          AND I, AND I THINK THAT'S A PERFECT INTRODUCTION OF EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS. 
          THIS IS INSIGHT INTO WHAT IS IS OUT THERE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          UM, THERE, THERE'S NOTHING THAT IS SCIENTIFIC SET IN STONE. 
          THIS IS ALWAYS HOW IT, HOW IT IS, OR THIS IS NEVER HOW IT IS. 
          SO I'M GONNA SPEAK IN A LOT OF GENERALITIES, AND A LOT OF THOSE GENERALITIES ARE BASED OFF SOME OF MY OBSERVATIONS, UH, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AS WELL. 
          UH, IF YOU HAVE OBJECTIONS TO IT, WE TALK ABOUT IT OFFLINE. 
          UH, BUT I, I, I THINK THIS WILL BE FAIRLY TAME, JUST GIVING YOU SOME PERSPECTIVE. 
          AGAIN, WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES THROUGHOUT THE INDUSTRY? UH, WHAT ARE, WHAT'S KIND OF SEEN POCKETED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AND, AND EVEN STATEWIDE TOO. 
          SO, UH, AGAIN, JUST A HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW OF WHAT EXISTS WITHIN THE INDUSTRY AND GIVING ALL OF YOU SOME CONTEXT. 
          SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TALK ABOUT IN, IN IS OFTENTIMES SAID, TOUTED, IS THAT IF YOU'VE SEEN ONE EMS AGENCY, THEN YOU'VE JUST SEEN ONE EMS AGENCY, AND YOU CAN PROBABLY SAY THE SAME FOR FIRE. 
          IF YOU'VE SEEN JUST ONE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THEN YOU'VE ONLY SEEN ONE FIRE DEPARTMENT HOPEFUL BY THE END OF THIS AT LEAST, UH, YOU'LL, YOU'LL GET WHAT MY PERSPECTIVE IS ON THAT ONE. 
          BUT, YOU KNOW, TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. 
          SO IF YOU'VE SEEN ONE EMS AGENCY, I WOULD ARGUE YOU'VE SEEN SOME MORE OBSERVATION. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, AS I WORK THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY WITH OTHER CLIENTS, AS I LOOK THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, RESEARCH THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, THERE'S POCKETS. 
          AND AGAIN, THIS IS NOT SCIENTIFIC, THIS IS MY OBSERVATION, BUT THERE'S POCKETS OF HOW FIRE AND MS INTERACT, REACT, FUNCTION, WORK, ORGANIZE, OPERATE, YOU NAME IT, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          IT'S NOT ALWAYS, ALWAYS. 
          IT'S NOT, NEVER, NEVER. 
          BUT THERE'S POCKETS. 
          YOU KNOW, WHAT IS, WHAT IS TYPICAL OF THE NORTHEAST IS VERY ATYPICAL OF, UH, THE MIDWEST OR OF OF STATES THAT ARE IN, YOU KNOW, THE CALIFORNIA AREA, THE WESTERN STATES. 
          AGAIN, THE GROUPINGS OF THEM ARE VERY DIFFERENT. 
          WHAT I SEE, AT LEAST WITHIN TEXAS IS OFTENTIMES VERY REFLECTIVE, UH, SPREADING ALL THE WAY OUT THROUGH WASHINGTON. 
          NOW, YOU PROBABLY CARVE OUT LIKE SEATTLE, A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT PART THERE. 
          BUT THE REST OF WASHINGTON, UM, VERY COMMON AS FAR AS HOW THE ORGANIZATIONS, DEPARTMENTS OPERATE. 
          AND EVEN CULTURALLY, THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. 
          I THINK THE CULTURE OFTENTIMES MELDS THE SAME WAY WITHIN THE MIDWEST. 
          THERE'S A, A UNIQUE, YOU KNOW, UNIQUENESS AS FAR AS HOW DEPARTMENTS OPERATE, HOW THEY'RE ORGANIZED, STRUCTURED, AND HOW THE CULTURE IS AS WELL. 
          UH, AND THERE ARE OUTLIERS THAT ARE THERE. 
          NEW JERSEY, I BELIEVE IS AN OUTLIER. 
          CALIFORNIA AN OUTLIER, FLORIDA AN OUTLIER. 
          NOT TO SAY THAT SOME ARE NECESSARILY BAD, BUT THEY'RE JUST, THEY'RE OUTLIERS WITH HOW THEY OPERATE. 
          NEW JERSEY'S AN OUTLIER BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY STATE. 
          WELL, IT'S ONE OF TWO STATES THAT REQUIRES TWO PARAMEDICS ON AN AMBULANCE. 
          UH, BUT IT'S THE ONLY STATE THAT REQUIRES THAT PARAMEDICS MUST WORK IN A HOSPITAL. 
          UH, FROM A, FROM AN AMBULANCE SERVICE PERSPECTIVE, THE AMBULANCE MUST COME FROM A HOSPITAL. 
          OTHER AMBULANCES THAT EXIST IN THE COMMUNITY CAN ONLY BE BASIC LIFE SUPPORT AMBULANCES WITH, WITH TS ADVANCED MTS. 
          SO, PARAMEDIC AMBULANCES IN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY HAVE TO COME FROM HOSPITAL, THEREFORE, , UH, CALIFORNIA IS AN OUTLIER BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE OF HOW THEY OPERATE FIRE AND EMS AND HOW THEY, UM, AND, AND OFTENTIMES USE KIND OF A PUBLIC PARTNER, UH, PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP, PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP MODEL WHERE FIRE AND IN EMS ARE OFTENTIMES SEPARATE. 
          AND WHEN I SAY EMS, I MEAN AMBULANCE SERVICE, FIRE AND AMBULANCE SERVICE ARE OFTEN SEPARATE ORGANIZATIONS, BUT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT SEEMS TO HAVE OVERSIGHT REGULATION OVER IT ON TOP OF ANOTHER REGULATORY BODY THAT'S ALSO REGULATED BY SOMEONE ELSE. 
          AND THEN THERE'S THE STATE. 
          SO IT IS VERY CONVOLUTED IN REGULATION HEAVY IN CALIFORNIA SPECIFICALLY, UH, FLORIDA IS AN OUTLIER BECAUSE IT'S A AWKWARD STATE. 
          UH, IT'S GOT VERY, VERY CAROLINA TENDENCIES, AND IT'S ALSO GOT VERY, VERY, UH, MID SOUTH TENDENCIES. 
          SO IT JUST, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE, YOU, YOU'LL EXPERIENCE VASTLY DIFFERENT 
          [00:20:01]
SYSTEMS, UH, BIGGER CITY VERSUS RURAL AND ELSEWHERE. 
          SO, AGAIN, UNIQUE, UH, AS FAR AS HOW IT'S OPERATED THERE. 
          SO IN SOME OF THESE COMMUNITIES, YOU ARE GONNA FIND THAT FIRE AND AMBULANCE SERVICES OR EMS GO HAND IN HAND. 
          AND OTHERS, THEY COULD BE ANYTHING FURTHER THAN THE OPPOSITE IS THE SPECTRUM. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, MIDWEST IS WHERE WE SEE COMBINATION, UH, NORTHEAST, YOU SEE SEPARATION. 
          SO JUST UNIQUENESS. 
          AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT ALWAYS AN AUTO LAKE. 
          IT'S NOT NEVER AND NEVER, BUT, YOU KNOW, COMMONALITIES THAT CLIENT. 
          UH, SO WHAT I'LL LOOK AT HERE WITH ALL OF YOU ARE, ARE SIX KEY TRENDS THAT I FIND THROUGHOUT THE INDUSTRY, UH, BASED OFF OF EACH OF THESE DIFFERENT FACTORS OR EACH OF THESE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS. 
          SO LET'S START WITH THE IDENTITY. 
          UH, THE IDENTITY OF THE EMS INDUSTRY IS, IS QUITE UNIQUE, UH, ON THE SERVICE, ON, ON THE SURFACE. 
          THE QUESTION THAT WE KNOW, WHAT IS EMS? IT IS A QUESTION THAT PLAYS MANY OF US. 
          IT KEEPS US UP AT NIGHT. 
          ARE WE PUBLIC SERVICE OR PUBLIC SAFETY? ARE WE HEALTHCARE? ARE WE PUBLIC HEALTH? ARE WE EMERGENCY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT? WE ALL OF THEM. 
          AND THEN WHAT CONCENTRATION OF THAT? SOME DEPARTMENTS ARE MORE ONE THAN THE OTHER. 
          UM, BUT YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE INDUSTRY, THIS IS A COMMON KIND OF DEBATE AND ARGUMENT OF SORTS THAT, THAT GOES ON OF WHAT, WHAT ARE WE, SO WE'RE FACING THIS LITTLE, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE TEENAGER DILEMMA OF LIKE, WHAT, WHAT AM I GONNA BE WHEN WE GROW UP? YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE INDUSTRY AND EVEN WITHIN THE PROFESSIONAL SIDE OF THINGS, THE TERM PROFESSIONAL, UH, HAS CONNOTATIONS DIFFERENTLY, ESPECIALLY ONCE WE GET INTO PAID CAREER, UH, PART-TIME, FULL-TIME. 
          THE TERM VOLUNTEER DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN VOLUNTEER, UH, VOLUNTEER. 
          AND, AND THE DEFINITION OF IRS IS ON PAY, ESSENTIALLY VOLUNTEER IN THE, IN THE EYES OF F FIRE AND EVENTS. 
          UH, YOU COULD BE PAID, BUT YOU HAVE AN UNSCHEDULED, UH, YOU KNOW, WORKFLOW MORE OR LESS, UH, EVEN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          PROFESSIONAL LOOKS DIFFERENT, UH, WOULD EXIST HERE IN TEXAS. 
          UH, AS FAR AS WHERE I'M FROM IN WISCONSIN, IT IS VASTLY DIFFERENT, UH, IN MANY CAREER DEPARTMENTS. 
          FOR WISCONSIN, TO BECOME A CAREER FIREFIGHTER, YOU'VE GOTTA HAVE AN ASSOCIATE DEGREE CERTIFICATIONS, UH, PLUS SOME SORT OF EMS CREDENTIAL. 
          IN TEXAS, IN MOST SITUATIONS, HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA, GED, YOU CAN WALK IN, GO THROUGH AN ACADEMY PROGRAM, VASTLY DIFFERENT. 
          SO, AND, AND THERE'S MIXES OF THAT THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          SO EVEN AS AN INDUSTRY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE FACING THIS KIND OF DILEMMA, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE WE, WHAT ARE WE NOW? AGAIN, EVERY SINGLE DEPARTMENT THAT'S OUT THERE IS NOT VASTLY DIFFERENT FROM ONE ANOTHER. 
          THERE'S GROUPINGS OUT THERE, UH, AT THE CORE, AGAIN, WHO IS IN EMS. AND I FIND THIS TO BE KIND OF A, A SOCIAL DILEMMA THAT WE FACE THE, THE TYPE OF PEOPLE OR PERSON THAT WORKS WITHIN OUR INDUSTRY. 
          AND FOR THE MOST PART, FIRE SERVICE PROBABLY FOLLOWS SUIT WITH THIS TOO. 
          UH, IT IS, IS A, AN INTERNAL CONFLICT OR A PERSONAL DILEMMA OF ARE WE A CAREGIVER OR ARE WE A PROBLEM SOLVER? WHO BY CHANCE, YOU KNOW, TAKES CARE OF PEOPLE. 
          SO BY NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION, AM I SAYING THAT PROBLEM SOLVERS ARE BAD CAREGIVERS. 
          THEY'RE JUST GOOD AT SOLVING PROBLEMS THAT BY CHANCE, ACTIVE INVOLVE PEOPLE. 
          UH, SO IT'S UNIQUE THOUGH, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK FROM THE HIRING PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, WHO DO YOU TRY TO HIRE? SOMEONE WHO'S GOT A GREAT BEDSIDE BANNER AND WHO IS, YOU KNOW, GREAT WITH THE, THE, THE EFFECTIVE DOMAIN OF WORKING WITH PEOPLE OR SOMEONE WHO'S GOT THE SKILL. 
          YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU RATHER TRAIN THE SKILL OR TRY TO TRAIN THE EFFECTIVE SIDE? AND SO THERE'S THIS DILEMMA, YOU KNOW, WITH HIRING, EVEN WITHIN THE INDUSTRY, I PERSONALLY THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY IN THE FIRE SERVICE, THERE'S A LOT MORE PROBLEM SOLVERS WHO HAVE NO PROBLEM AND ARE GOOD WITH HANDLING CAREGIVING FOR PEOPLE. 
          THAT'S THE OBJECTIVE. 
          AND THAT'S FINE, BUT THAT'S OKAY. 
          PERSONALLY, I WOULD IDENTIFY AS A PROBLEM SOLVER, BUT I'VE GOT A GREAT BEDSIDE MANNER AND I'M GREAT WITH, WITH MY PATIENTS, MY PEOPLE. 
          SO CARE FOR THEM. 
          I'M NOT BAD, YOU KNOW, NON-EMPATHETIC, BUT I WANT SOLVE THE PROBLEM JUST BY CHANCE HAPPENS WITH PEOPLE. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF YOU FIND THE SAME THING IN THE MEDICAL WORLD, BUT YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO BE A COMMONALITY FROM WHAT I FIND WITHIN THE MS. SO IT, IT'S A UNIQUE IDENTITY PROBLEM. 
          AND THE CULTURE OF EMS IS QUITE DIFFERENT, UH, WITHIN THESE DIFFERENT RESPECTS OF HOW YOU ORGANIZE, UH, FIRE DEPARTMENT, UH, FIRE DEPARTMENTS THAT OPERATE THE AMBULANCE SERVICE. 
          THE CULTURE OF THE PEOPLE IS VASTLY DIFFERENT THAN FIRE DEPARTMENTS THAT DON'T OPERATE THE AMBULANCE, BUT HAVE A PRIVATE VENDOR OR EVEN A PUBLIC, UH, VENDOR. 
          AND IT'S VASTLY DIFFERENT WHEN YOU START INTEGRATING THOSE PEOPLE INTO THE SAME STATIONS. 
          UM, SO ANY ONE OF THOSE COMBINATIONS OF HOW FIRE AND EMS OPERATE, RECRUITS, RETAINS, BUILDS, GROWS. 
          THE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. 
          THE, THE CULTURE IS DIFFERENT. 
          AND FOR SOME PEOPLE THAT THAT'S A HYBRID, YOU KNOW, OPPORTUNITY. 
          THEY WANT TO BE IN THIS SEPARATE DEPARTMENT, 
          [00:25:01]
THEY SEEK THIS TYPE OF DEPARTMENT, SO THEY GO THERE OR OTHERS, THEY INTENTIONALLY AVOID IT 'CAUSE IT'S JUST NOT THEIR THING. 
          THAT'S OKAY. 
          SO CULTURE IS DIFFERENT BASED OFF THE MODEL. 
          SO THAT'S PART OF THE IDENTITY. 
          UH, ORGANIZATIONALLY, UH, THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF TRADITIONAL MODELS THAT ARE OUT THERE. 
          THE TRADITIONAL MODELS THAT WE SEE WOULD BE, UH, PUBLIC, MUNICIPAL, AND WITHIN THERE, UH, TYPICALLY IS A FIRE BASED EMS OR FIRE BASED AMBULANCE SERVICE MODEL. 
          AND ALSO GROWING IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY TOO IS A STANDALONE EMS AGENCY OR WHAT WE CALL A THIRD, THIRD SERVICE EMS. SO THIRD SERVICE AS IN POLICE, FIRE, AMBULANCE, ALL THREE BEING SEPARATE. 
          UM, WE'LL TALK ABOUT ALL THREE BEING COMBINED THAT DOES EXIST. 
          UM, BUT THOSE ARE COMMONALITIES. 
          SO FIRE AND EMS COMBINED OR FIRE IN EMS SEPARATED WITHIN THE MUNICIPAL SPECTRUM, GROWING THROUGH UP THE COUNTRY, AND ESPECIALLY WITHIN TEXAS, UH, ARE THE SEPARATIONS WITH THE ESD, IS THE, UH, UH, EMERGENCY SERVICE DISTRICT, ESSENTIALLY THE SPECIAL TAXING DISTRICTS AND UTILIZING THEM TO FUNCTION AS THEIR OWN MUNICIPAL ISH, UH, EMS AGENCY. 
          AGAIN, COMMON TREND THAT'S GROWING HERE, IT'S GROWING ELSEWHERE. 
          SO I SEE THAT BUILDING UP THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          UH, AND THEN STANDALONE EMS, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THERE AS WELL. 
          SO FIRE BASED WITH THE SPEC, SPECIAL TAXING DISTRICTS AND NON-FIRE BASED WITH IT AS WELL, WHERE SPECIAL TAXING DISTRICTS, UH, I SEE COME INTO PLAY THE MOST. 
          IT'S WENT MULTIPLE COMMUNITIES MERGED TOGETHER AND OPERATE. 
          THEY USE, USE, UH, UTILIZE A SPECIAL TAX DISTRICT MODEL THAT ALLOWS FOR SOME OF THE SEPARATION OF, OF LOCAL POLITICS, YOU KNOW, GO VIGOROUS POLITICS, YOU KNOW, LOCALLY. 
          SO, UH, THEY TRY TO SEPARATE IN SPECIALTY JACKSON DISTRICT, JUST THEY HAVE SOME THAT ORGANIZATIONAL SEPARATION. 
          AND THEN ALSO THERE'S PRIVATE NON-PROFIT AND PRIVATE FOR-PROFIT WITHIN THE INDUSTRIES AS WELL. 
          THERE'S NOT MANY PRIVATE FOR-PROFIT FIRE DEPARTMENTS. 
          UH, WHERE WE MOST COMMONLY SEE THAT IS A LOT OF AIRPORTS ARE PRIVATE FOR-PROFIT, ACTUALLY CONTRACTED BY THE COUNTY OR MISS VALLEY OR WHOEVER. 
          UH, AGAIN, NOT EVERYWHERE, BUT QUITE COMMON. 
          UH, THERE'S A COUPLE OF PRIVATE FOR-PROFIT DEPARTMENTS IN ARIZONA. 
          YEAH, THAT'S ABOUT IT. 
          THERE'S NOT MANY OF THEM. 
          UH, PRIVATE FOR-PROFIT EMS, HOWEVER, VERY COMMON. 
          UH, TYPICALLY IN LARGER CITIES, UH, FOLLOWING A DIFFERENT TYPE OF RESPONSE MODELING, UH, WORKING WITH INNER FACILITY TRANSFERS, GOING FROM HOSPITAL TO HOME OR HOME TO HOSPITAL OR, UH, ADDING FACILITIES WITHIN THERE. 
          AND THEN ACTUALLY IN THE NONPROFIT WORLD, QUITE COMMON TO GET ON THE AMBULANCE SIDE. 
          BUT ACTUALLY THE FIRE SERVICE, VERY COMMON FOR PRIVATE NONPROFIT FIRE DEPARTMENTS, TYPICALLY ON THE, UH, LOWER POPULATION AND IN THE SMALLER COMMUNITY, THE TRADITIONAL VOLUNTEER DEPARTMENTS, UH, THROUGH THE COUNTRY, MANY OF THOSE DEPARTMENTS ARE, ARE ACTUALLY PRIVATE, NON-PROFIT CORPORATIONS THAT ARE CONTRACTED BY A MUNICIPALITY OR AT LEAST HOPEFULLY CONTRACTED BY SOMETHING. 
          WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE WRITTEN DOWN. 
          SO AGAIN, DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE SEE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, THE INDUSTRY AS FAR AS HOW ORGANIZATIONS ARE, THESE ARE THE COMMON FINDINGS. 
          UH, THERE ARE AGAIN, SOME ALTERNATIVE MODELS THAT DO EXIST. 
          SO WE TALK ABOUT PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS, UH, JUST TO, AGAIN, GIVE SOME PERSPECTIVE OF, OF EXAMPLES. 
          UH, AURORA CALL AURORA, COLORADO WAS FUN EXAMPLE, WHERE THEY CONTRACT WITH A PRIVATE VENDOR, UH, WHICH IS CALLED FELT. 
          SO A MAJOR NATIONAL, ACTUALLY A WORLDWIDE VENDOR. 
          THEY CONTRACT WITH THEM, BUT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ESSENTIALLY PROVIDES THE SERVICE AND THE CARE, EVEN THOUGH A PRIVATE AMBULANCE COMES IN WITH PEOPLE, UH, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS TO BE THERE. 
          IT'S A UNIQUE MONTH, UH, SIMILAR BUT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT IS A PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP THAT WE WOULD FIND IN, UH, PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA. 
          SUNSTAR, UH, THE COUNTY HAS THE BRAND, WHICH IS SUNSTAR. 
          UH, THEY OWN THE FLEET, THE FACILITY, BUT THEY RENT IT OUT, OR, YOU KNOW, IT'S LEASED BY THIS PRIVATE VENDOR. 
          THE EMPLOYEES ARE ACTUALLY EMPLOYEES OF THIS PRIVATE SERVICE. 
          AGAIN, A VERY UNIQUE MODEL. 
          UH, PUBLIC SAFETY DEPARTMENTS NOT VERY COMMON. 
          I'M FAMILIAR WITH ONE LOCALLY TO ME, WHICH IS A SCHWA SAY THAT THAT'S, SO AS SCHWA, THAT'S AN EASY ONE. 
          COMES, GOES OUT OFF THE TONGUE. 
          UH, SO IT IS POLICE, FIRE, COMMUNITY, MS ALL IN ONE. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALL THREE OF THEM. 
          UH, IN MICHIGAN, PUBLIC SAFETY HAS A DIFFERENT DEFINITION. 
          IT'S TYPICALLY POLICE AND FIRE, EMM BEING SEPARATE. 
          SO THE GERMAN PUBLIC SAFETY IN MICHIGAN MEANS . 
          I THINK THERE'S, UH, SOME DIFFERENT ONES, SOME DIFFERENT, UH, CONSORTIUM OR JOINT POWER. 
          SO, UH, AUTHORITIES OR JPA, I FIND THIS IN IDAHO. 
          UH, THERE'S TWO COMMON SYSTEMS THERE. 
          ONE OF THEM IS IN THE, UH, THE, UH, BOISE AREA AND THROUGHOUT BO 
          [00:30:01]
C AND ADA COUNTY. 
          UM, IT'S, IT'S QUITE UNIQUE WHERE THERE'S AN AMBULANCE SERVICE AND THEN THERE'S SEVEN FIRE DEPARTMENTS. 
          BUT AS AN EMS AGENCY THAT TECHNICALLY EXIST AS ONE, IT'S EIGHT DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, EIGHT DIFFERENT EMPLOYERS, EIGHT DIFFERENT TAX BASED CORPORATION, WHATEVER. 
          BUT THE EMS AGENCY THAT FUNCTIONS IS ACTUALLY ALL EIGHT OF THEM PUT TOGETHER. 
          I THINK IT'S EIGHT, BUT IT'S ALL OF 'EM PUT TOGETHER. 
          SO IT'S UNIQUE. 
          UH, I'VE ONLY REALLY FOUND IT WITH ACCESS, UH, KUAI COUNTY, WHICH IS, UH, SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. 
          BUT, AND THEN, UH, CANYON COUNTY IN, IN IDAHO TOO. 
          SO AGAIN, UNIQUE, UH, FIRE BASE WITH STANDALONE EMS PROVIDERS GROWING. 
          AND I'M SEEING MORE OF THAT HAPPENING HERE IN, IN, UH, IN TEXAS. 
          UH, SITE VERIFIER IS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT. 
          HARRIS COUNTY, FBNY OR FIRE DEPARTMENT IN NEW YORK PROBABLY IS THE LARGEST EXAMPLE OF THAT, WHERE THEY'RE ALL UNDER THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. 
          BUT FIRE INVESTORS, THEY ARE SEPARATED. 
          SO DIFFERENT MODELS THERE. 
          UH, THE EMERGENCY SERVICE DEPARTMENT, I, I THROW THIS IN HERE BECAUSE I, I, I THINK THIS IS KIND OF A HAPPEN MEDIUM OF A LOT OF THESE EXAMPLES. 
          UH, NOT TO SAY THAT THIS IS ONE IS CALLED THIS YET, BUT I SEE THIS OR WHAT, WHAT DEPARTMENTS ARE STARTING TO TRY TO MELD INTO, WHICH IS TRYING TO FIND THE HAPPY MEDIUM BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO WANNA BE FIREFIGHTERS ONLY, PEOPLE WHO WANNA BE EMS PROVIDERS ONLY, AND THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO BOTH. 
          FINDING A WAY FOR EVERYONE TO COEXIST AND, AND DOING IT WITHIN A MEETINGS THAT IT DOESN'T DISRUPT PAYROLL AND ALL THE OTHER HR TYPE THINGS. 
          UH, SO THIS EMERGENCY SERVICE DEPARTMENT IDEA, UH, I, I THINK IS ONE THAT MAY POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, GAIN SOME TRACTION, BUT A TOPIC FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION. 
          SO THAT'S HOW LEAST I'VE DONE IN YOUR ORGANIZATION. 
          ANY, ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR? SO, AGAIN, OBSERVATIONS. 
          YES. 
          SO IF OUR PURPOSE IS EXPLORE OPTIONS FOR DELIVERING FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS IS PLAYING INTO ANY OF THAT. 
          IT'S NOT LIKE A LOT OF WORDS TO TAKE UP A LOT OF TIME IF WE'RE BEING HONEST. 
          UH, SO WHAT THIS IS ALL DOING IS IT'S GONNA GIVE A BUILDUP TO WHAT'S COMING ON THE AGENDA. 
          SO THE, THE MODELING THAT WE'LL LOOK AT, WHETHER IT'S, WHETHER IT'S DISCUSSING PRIVATE AND SERVICE OR NOT, UH, WHETHER IT'S MAINTAINING, WHETHER IT'S CURRENTLY HERE, WHETHER IT'S HIRING IN STANDALONE EMS PROVIDERS, PARAMEDICS, OR EMTS, AND TRYING TO INTEGRATE THEM IN THE DEPARTMENT OR NOT. 
          SO I'M GIVING JUST SOME CONTEXT, THE LEAD FRAMEWORK FOR FUTURE DISCUSSIONS. 
          READ CONTEXT, THAT'S ALL. 
          ALRIGHT, SO OPERATIONALLY, UH, AGAIN, WHAT I SEE THROUGHOUT THE INDUSTRY TOO IS, IS KIND OF A DIVERGENT PRACTICE THEORY IN CONCEPTS. 
          THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF COMMONALITY OR MIDDLE GROUND, UH, DEPARTMENTS SEEM TO EITHER GO THIS WAY OR THAT WAY, AND THERE'S NOT MUCH ING IN BETWEEN. 
          UH, SO I'LL EXPLAIN AGAIN. 
          UH, THE, THE MISHMASH, THE, THE GRAIN BETWEEN IS NOT COMMON. 
          IT'S, IT'S VERY LEFT TURN, RIGHT TURN, AND THAT'S IT. 
          UM, SO, AND I'LL EXPAND. 
          SO OPERATIONALLY DEPLOYMENT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WITHIN THE INDUSTRIES THAT IS QUITE UNIQUE. 
          UH, AND WITHIN THAT THERE'S STATIC AND THEN DYNAMIC. 
          SO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, AS AN EXAMPLE, OPERATES ON A STATIC MODEL. 
          IT HAS STATIONS STRATEGICALLY LOCATED THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY. 
          BUT WHAT'S UNIQUE WITHIN THAT IS THAT FROM THE FIRE PERSPECTIVE, STATIONS ARE TYPICALLY BASED, ARE LOCATED BASED OFF OF GEOGRAPHY IN RESPONSE TO COVERAGE AREA ON THE EMS SIDE OF THE HOUSE. 
          BUT THAT PROCESS IS OFTENTIMES DIFFERENT, UH, QUITE THE OPPOSITE. 
          IT'S NOT GEOGRAPHIC AS FAR AS COVERAGE, THAT'S THE CONCERN. 
          IT'S GETTING TO THE VOLUME. 
          SO WHERE A FIRE STATION IS, MAY NOT BE THE BEST LOCATION FOR AN AMBULANCE PER SE, BECAUSE THE VOLUME MAY NOT BE THERE. 
          EMS PLUGS TOWARD THE VOLUME. 
          TRADITIONALLY FIRE USUALLY WORKS OUT TO THE COVERAGE. 
          SO IN THE STATIC WORLD, YOU KNOW, IT'S A TRICKY PART. 
          UM, IN THE DYNAMIC SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THAT'S WHERE THE FLEXIBILITY GOES. 
          FIRE DEPARTMENTS TYPICALLY DO NOT OPERATE IN THE DYNAMIC WORLD. 
          STANDALONE EMS AGENCIES TYPICALLY DO OPERATE IN THE DYNAMIC WORLD. 
          SO WHEN YOU OPERATE AT A FIRE BASED EMS AGENCY, YOU'RE COMPETE, YOU KNOW, WHICH MODEL DO YOU DO, YOU GO ON, HOPEFULLY YOUR COVERAGE MATCHES WHERE THE DEMAND IS. 
          AND THAT'S WHERE, AGAIN, THE ZONE VERSUS DEMAND COVERAGE COMES IN. 
          SOUNDS LIKE FOOTBALL TERMS AT LEAST. 
          BUT, UH, IT SENSE THE SAME THING. 
          DO WE COVER TO GET TO ALL THE GEOGRAPHY WITHIN A FAIR, WITHIN A FAIR TIME? OR DO WE PUT RESOURCES WHERE THE STATISTICAL CALL DEMAND IS, WHICH MEANS WE MIGHT RISK, YOU KNOW, AREAS THAT HAVE LONGER RESPONSE TIMES. 
          FIRE EMS OFTENTIMES OPERATE VERY DIFFERENTLY IN THAT RESPECT. 
          SO THERE TEND TO BE GAPS, 
          [00:35:01]
UH, WHEN YOU TRY TO PUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. 
          UH, IN SOME CASES, EVEN AMBULANCE DESERTS. 
          AND I'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS LATER ON, OUR RESPONSE WISE, SAYING AN AMBULANCE ONLY OR FIRE FIRST RESPONSE WITH EITHER A BIG FIRE TRUCK OR A SMALLER VERSION OF THE FIRE TRUCK, OR, UM, YOU KNOW, USING SOME SORT OF COMBINATION OF THAT WITH FUEL FIRE, EM S RESPONDING VERY, VERY DIFFERENT AGAIN, WITHIN THESE MODELS, UH, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AND EVEN HERE LOCALLY. 
          NOT EVERY CALL FOR, FOR, FOR MEDICAL CARE GETS A FIRE TRUCK, BUT IT MIGHT GET ADVANTAGE, UH, IN CERTAIN TYPES OF SITUATIONS. 
          YOU'LL ALSO GET A FIRE TRUCK. 
          AGAIN, NOT EVERY CITY OPERATES THAT WAY TOO. 
          SO, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WHAT IS SEEN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY CAN BE DIFFERENT, WHICH OPENS UP THE, OPENS UP THE OPPORTUNITY FOR, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THINGS BE DONE DIFFERENTLY HERE? MAYBE NOT, MAYBE. 
          SO, UH, AS FAR AS STAFFING GOES, TRUE STAFFING AS WELL IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT. 
          UM, IN SOME OTHER COMMUNITIES TYPICALLY SEE TWO EMTS STAFFING TOGETHER. 
          PARAMEDICS ARE NOT COMMON. 
          A LARGELY GROWTH COUNTRY. 
          EMT AND PARAMEDIC IS THE MOST COMMON A LS OR ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT AMBULANCE THAT YOU'LL FIND DUAL PARAMEDICS. 
          SO TWO PARAMEDICS ARE AN AMBULANCE IS ARGUABLY UNCOMMON. 
          AND, UH, YOU KNOW, IN MANY DISCUSSIONS, IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY WHAT MANY, UH, SYSTEMS ARE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM. 
          THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT, THEY CAN'T SUSTAIN IT, THEY DON'T HAVE THE DEPOT FOR IT, AND IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR THEM TO BUILD THEIR EMTS. 
          SO WHAT YOU HAVE HERE IN GARLAND IS LARGELY NOT COMMON, TO BE HONEST. 
          UH, TWO STATES REQUIRE IT, WELL, KIND OF, KIND OF TWO STATES, NEW JERSEY, WISCONSIN, PRIOR TO 2003 REQUIRED IT. 
          BUT THERE ARE SOME BIG CITIES, UH, THIS IS A BIG DEBATE GOING ON RIGHT NOW IN THE SEATTLE AREA WITH KING COUNTY AND SOME OTHERS WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO BREAK AWAY FROM PARAMEDIC, UH, TWO PARAMEDIC MODELING AND ALLOW FOR PARAMEDIC AND EMT. 
          SO LARGELY THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, AN AMBULANCE IN THE CITY THAT HAS AN EMT AND A PARAMEDIC ON PARAMEDIC TWO PARAMEDICS, VERY UNCOMMON. 
          UH, AS FAR AS THE STAFFING TOO, YOU USE STATIC VERSUS DYNAMIC CROSS STAFFING. 
          UH, YOU KNOW, HAVING A FIRE TRUCK, TAKING PEOPLE OUT THE FIRE TRUCK TO STAFF AN AMBULANCE, UH, IS, IS A POSSIBILITY. 
          SELMA AREAS, THEY USE CHASE VEHICLES, SO THEY MIGHT JUST HAVE A PARAMEDIC THAT ROAMS AND THEN JUMPS ON THE CALL THAT IS NEEDED. 
          UH, OR IN SOME SYSTEMS THEY'LL ADD MORE AMBULANCES BASED OFF OF THE STATISTICAL CALL DEMAND, TYPICALLY DURING THE DAYTIME, AND THEN BREAK DOWN TO A LOWER VOLUME. 
          NOT TO SAY THEY'RE TAKING AWAY, BUT THEY'RE RETURNING TO NORMAL DURING THE NIGHT, ADDING DURING THE DAY. 
          SO, AGAIN, DIFFERENCES FROM WHAT IS STATICALLY DONE WITHIN TRADITIONAL BAR BASED DMS SYSTEMS. FROM THE PATIENT CARE PERSPECTIVE. 
          UH, THERE, THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST 10, EVEN 20 YEARS WITH REGARD TO PATIENT CARE. 
          UH, WHAT WE HAVE OFTENTIMES CONSIDERED, UH, CARE THAT WOULD BE PROVIDED ON SCENE HAS TRANSITIONED TOWARD RAPID RESPONSE. 
          IN OTHER AREAS WHERE WE WOULD DO RAPID RESPONSE HAS TRANSITIONED TOWARD ON SCENE. 
          SO WE LOOK AT LIKE LIGHTS AND SIREN AS AN EXAMPLE. 
          UH, LIGHTS AND SIREN. 
          AND THIS IS, YOU KNOW, AN ANECDOTAL, BUT I THINK FAIRLY ACCURATE NUMBER, A GOAL OF A COMMON FINDING IS SHOOTING FOR ABOUT 50 50, 50% OF CALLS GET LICENSE ERROR IN RESPONSE. 
          50% DON'T. 
          THERE'S NO NATIONAL STANDARD, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT. 
          IT'S ALWAYS ANECDOTAL. 
          UM, ON THIS, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT EQUATION, AS FAR AS TRANSPORTS GO, THE GOAL IN MANY SYSTEMS IS OFTENTIMES HAVE BEEN 95 AND FIVE SPLIT. 
          95% OF CALLS DO NOT GET LIGHTS AND SIREN BY TRANSPORTING TO THE HOSPITAL. 
          AND ABOUT 5% TOO, BECAUSE HOW MANY PATIENTS TRULY ARE IN A TIME SENSITIVE EMERGENT SITUATION THAT NEED IMMEDIATE TRANSPORT. 
          IT MIGHT BE THEIR EMERGENCY, BUT STATISTICALLY AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT TIME SENSITIVE. 
          SO, AGAIN, DIFFERENT NUMBERS THAT WE FIND, BUT THOSE, I FIND, UH, COMMON, COMMON BENCHMARKS, UH, THINGS THAT WE FIND THAT, UH, PUSH ON THE ON SCENE SIDE, AGAIN, NURSE NAVIGATION OR EMERGENCY MEDICAL DISPATCHING, TRYING TO PRIORITIZE HOW, YOU KNOW, TIME SENSITIVE, URGENT OR SEVERE. 
          IS THIS PATIENT, THEREFORE, WHAT TYPE OF RESPONSE DO THEY NEED? OR WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSPORT, WHERE DO THEY NEED TO GO? DO THEY NEED TO GO TO AN EMERGENCY ROOM? UM, CAN THEY GO TO AN URGENT CARE CENTER? COULD THEY BE BETTER SERVED AT A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY RATHER THAN A HOSPITAL TOGETHER? THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN TRIED IN OUR, ARE STILL ACTIVELY BEING TRIED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          SOME ARE SUCCEEDING, SOME ARE JUST SITTING BY. 
          SOME HAVE FAILED. 
          UH, NATIONALLY, ONE OF THE BIG PUSHES THAT WAS, WAS, UH, INTRODUCED IN 2019 WAS CALLED 
          [00:40:01]
18 THREE OF THE EMERGENCY TRIAGE TRIP AND TRANSPORT INITIATIVE. 
          UM, AND JUST PUSHED ON BY, BY CMS AND, UH, JUST RECENTLY THEN IN 2023, THEY SCRAPPED THE WHOLE THING. 
          CANCER THAT STOPPED. 
          IT ENDED, IT DONE. 
          UM, WHAT THIS INITIATIVE, WHAT THIS INITIATIVE IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS, IS IT MORE CONDUCIVE? IS IT BETTER FOR PATIENT TO SLEEP, TO HAVE PATIENT CARE AT HOME? UH, NOT GO TO THE HOSPITAL FOR CERTAIN SITUATIONS, YOU KNOW, A HEART ATTACK, YES, YOU GO, BUT YOU KNOW, SO COULD OTHER THINGS BE SCREENED? TELEMEDICINE, OR EVEN THE MS PROVIDERS HAVING SOME INCREASED PROVIDER, UH, EDUCATION AND CARE. 
          COULD THEY SUCCESSFULLY NAVIGATE THESE PATIENTS ELSEWHERE OR STAY HOME AND DIRECT CARE, GET THEIR PRESCRIPTIONS AND SO FORTH? AGAIN, NATIONALLY, THEY SCRAP THAT ENTIRE PROGRAM, THEN IT'S TRACKS. 
          SO THE DATA'S JUST GONE. 
          UM, AGAIN, TIME SENSITIVE WISE, THERE ARE THINGS LIKE CARDIAC ARREST AND SOME PLACES OPERATE DIFFERENTLY IN THE COUNTRY. 
          BUT THE TREND, CARDIAC, ARREST WISE, UH, FROM THE ADULT PERSPECTIVE AND EVEN IN THE PEDIATRIC WORLD, IS THAT THIS USED TO BE PICK 'EM UP, START GOING AND DRIVE THE HOSPITAL. 
          AND NOW THE TREND IS DON'T START GOING TO THE HOSPITAL. 
          YOU'RE ACTUALLY MAKING THINGS WORSE. 
          STAY ON SCENE. 
          IT'S A STABLE, CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT. 
          YOU'RE NOT MOVING. 
          DO WHAT NEED TO DO. 
          WORK THE PATIENT, TRY TO MAKE YOU KNOW THEM SURVIVE. 
          AND IF THEY DON'T SURVIVE, YOU PRONOUNCE THEM DECEASED. 
          SO THE PENDULUM HAS SWUNG IN MANY AREAS TOWARD THIS IS ACTUALLY A STAY IN PLAY, NOT A LOW AND GO SITUATION OF WHAT WE USED TO WORK WITH. 
          TRAUMA IS AN EXCEPTION, BUT AGAIN, THINGS ARE DIFFERENT THAN BEING TRIED UNIQUELY THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          UH, AND THEN THERE ARE DIFFERENT, UH, UNIQUE TOOLS THAT ARE BEING INTRODUCED, UH, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AS WELL. 
          GROWTH TRANSITIONING TO OUR VIDEO LARYNGOSCOPY. 
          SO, UH, LOOKING INSIDE SOMEONE'S, UH, AIRWAY WITH A, A VIDEO, UH, VIDEO SCOPE, UH, MECHANICAL CHEST COMPRESSION DEVICES. 
          SO STILL DOING, YOU KNOW, CHEST COMPRESSIONS WITH THEIR HANDS, BUT ALSO INCORPORATING MACHINERY INTO IT. 
          UH, DEVICE TO WRAP AROUND THE PATIENT'S CHEST TO DO , EMS AGENCY OF OUR, OUR TRIALING NOTE, UH, ULTRASOUND BLOOD INFUSIONS IN THE FIELD. 
          SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, UNIQUE AND PROGRESSIVE THINGS THAT ARE BEING TRIED. 
          ON THE TRANSPORT SIDE, UH, WALL TIMES WAS A BIG, BIG ISSUE, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT HERE. 
          UH, WALL TIMES, MEANING GOING TO THE HOSPITAL WITH THE PATIENT AND THEN STAYING IN THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT AND REALLY NOT GOING ANYWHERE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE A BED. 
          UH, OR JUST HAVING TO WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. 
          ANECDOTALLY, AT LEAST, UH, AGAIN, THERE'S NO DEFINED NUMBER OF WHAT IT IS. 
          WALL TIME. 
          MOST, WHERE I'VE SEEN IT, 30 MINUTES IS ABOUT THAT THRESHOLD. 
          SO WALL TIME IS OFTENTIMES ABOUT A 30 MINUTE THRESHOLD. 
          ANYTHING LESS THAN THAT IS KIND OF CONSIDERED NORMAL BUSINESS. 
          ANYTHING BEYOND THAT IS TYPICALLY A PROBLEM. 
          SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY HAVE HAD SIGNIFICANT ISSUES WITH THAT. 
          CALIFORNIA, ESPECIALLY OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, THIS TERM DOESN'T EXIST. 
          SO, AGAIN, UNIQUE AS FAR AS WHERE THAT EXISTS AND, AND WHAT THE, THE SOLUTIONS OR THE PROBLEMS ARE, UH, IN THAT REALM. 
          AND THEN AS WE KIND OF PROGRESSED ON WITH PATIENT CARE, THE CONTINUUM OF CARE IS SOMETHING THAT'S CHANGING THROUGHOUT THE INDUSTRY. 
          EITHER THE CONCEPT OR A PUSH, UH, OF, OF MOBILE HEALTHCARE OR COMMUNITY PARAMEDICINE WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO UP TRAIN, UH, PARAMEDICS, PARTICULARLY IN THE FIELD TO FOCUS MORE ON NOT JUST WHAT GETS DONE ON THE SCENE, BUT WHAT GETS DONE AFTER THE FACT. 
          GETTING PRESCRIPTIONS, WORKING WITH SOCIAL CARE AND DEVICE CARE PLANS FOR PATIENTS TO IDEALLY KEEP THEM OUTTA THE HOSPITAL APPROPRIATELY, KEEP THEM OUT, UH, BUT BUT STILL GET THEM THE RIGHT CARE. 
          SO THIS IS BEING TRIED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT FUNDING PROBLEM FOR HOWEVER. 
          AND THEN ALSO, UH, DATA SHARING BI DIRECTION. 
          SO EMS GIVING THE HOSPITALS DATA, HOSPITALS GETTING EMS DATA. 
          SOME AREAS ARE VERY SUCCESSFUL WITH IT, OTHERS WANT. 
          AND, UH, ON THE TRANSFER OF CARE SIDE, UH, THIS IS NOT COMMON IN THE FIRE BASED WORLD, BUT IN FACILITY TRANSFERS, UH, TAKING PATIENTS FROM THE HOSPITAL BACK HOME OR NURSING HOME TO THE HOSPITAL, UH, WHEN IT'S NOT A 9 1 1 EMERGENCY EVENT, IT'S NOT COMMON IN FIRE BASED BMS, UH, IT DOES EXIST. 
          SOME USE IT AS KIND OF A SEPARATE BUSINESS LINE. 
          UM, THIS IS MORE COMMON WITHIN THE PRIVATE INDUSTRY. 
          SO TYPICALLY PRIVATE INDUSTRY, UH, INDUSTRIES FLOCK TOWARD THIS, UH, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A BUSINESS MODEL THAT, THAT AT LEAST THEY CAN SUSTAIN ON. 
          UH, SO WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR FACILITY, UH, AND INTER FACILITY MARKET, IT'S HARD FOR PRIVATE INDUSTRY TO SUSTAIN WITHOUT TAX SUPPORT. 
          SO WOULD BE FUN. 
          UH, AND THEN ELSEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY, HELICOPTER USE THIS, THIS A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION. 
          NOT REALLY HERE. 
          UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE EVER LANDED A HELICOPTER IN THE CITY. 
          IT'S 
          [00:45:01]
NOT VERY COMMON. 
          I WOULD IMAGINE, UH, SOME PLACES IT, IT GETS USED SIGNIFICANTLY. 
          SO, HIGH LEVEL THINGS WITH REGARD TO ANY QUESTIONS THERE. 
          AND AGAIN, TALKING IN HIGH PERSPECTIVE THINGS, JUST GIVING YOU SOME CONTEXT OF WHAT IS GOING ON ELSEWHERE AND  ON THE FUNDING SIDE. 
          SO REALLY THE, THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY AND THE EMS WORLD OPERATES KIND OFF TWO DIFFERENT MECHANISMS. AND THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF MILL GROUND IN THERE. 
          UH, IT'S, IT'S EITHER ON TAXES OR IT'S OFF REIMBURSEMENT. 
          PUT THAT IN QUOTES BECAUSE IT'S HARDLY REIMBURSED. 
          UM, SO TAXES, UH, IN THE MUNICIPAL SENSE, OFTENTIMES COMING FROM GENERAL FUNDS OR SPECIAL PROTECTION DISTRICTS WITHIN THERE, OR SOME OTHER SORT OF PUBLIC FUNDING THAT'S ALTERNATIVE, WHETHER IT'S FROM INCOME TAXES. 
          UH, SOME CITIES OPERATE OFF OF INCOME TAX VERSUS PROPERTY TAX. 
          SALES TAX MIGHT FUND FIRE DEPARTMENT HANDLING SERVICES, LICENSE PLATE, UH, TYPICALLY MORE OF A STATE ORIENTED ONE GRANTS AS WELL. 
          OR SOMETIMES, UH, ORGANIZATIONS WILL TACK ON, UH, AN EXPENSE TO, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S A WATER BILL OR IF IT'S A, UH, A CELL PHONE BILL TO COME FOR NINE ONE ONE SYSTEM. 
          PERCENTAGE OF THAT GOES TO FIRE EMS. SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT DEPARTMENTS MAY OR MAY NOT GET FUNDED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          ON THE REIMBURSEMENT SIDE, UH, THIS IS THE, THE TRADITIONAL ROUTE THAT EMS IS FUNDED, AND IT'S BY REIMBURSEMENT THROUGH INSURANCE, WHETHER IT'S MEDICARE, MEDICAID OR CMS, UH, OR IT'S PRIVATE PAY OR COMMERCIAL PAYERS OR YOUR TRADITIONAL UNITED HEALTHCARE, BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD, WHOEVER. 
          IT WOULD BE TYPE TYPE PAYERS TOO. 
          UM, BALANCE BILLING, WHICH MEANS, YOU KNOW, IF JUST BECAUSE THE AMBULANCE SERVICE BILLS YOU $2,000 DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU CAN NECESSARILY GET $2,000 OUT OF IT. 
          UH, IF, IF INSURANCE, ESPECIALLY MEDICARE, IF MEDICARE ONLY GIVES YOU $484, YOU CAN'T THEN TURN AROUND AND BUILD THAT PATIENT FOR $1,600, UH, TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE. 
          SO THERE'S, THERE'S ISSUES, ISSUES WITH REGARD TO THE, UH, THE FUNDING AND THE SURPRISES ACT IS ONE THAT'S WITHIN THERE. 
          SO IT MAKES THINGS COMPLICATED. 
          HOW EMS TRADITIONALLY IS REIMBURSED, AGAIN, HARDLY COVERS THAT COST, ESPECIALLY WHEN , MEDICARE, MEDICAID, HIGH POPULATION, UH, PERCENTAGES ON THAT AMBULANCE, YOU KNOW, TO, FOR AN AMBULANCE TO RESPOND. 
          IT IS NOT UNCOMMON FOR AN AMBULANCE EXPENSE TO EXIST TO RESPOND, YOU KNOW, ON A DAILY AVERAGE COSTS $2,000. 
          UM, BUT THEIR REIMBURSEMENT HARDLY 500 SOME STATES. 
          SO REIMBURSEMENT'S A LOOSE TERM. 
          OTHER STATES, TEXAS DOES HAVE THIS, UH, AROUND THE EMERGENCY MEDICAL TRANSPORT OR AN AMBULANCE SUPPLEMENTAL PAYMENT PROGRAM WHERE ESSENTIALLY YOU TAKE YOUR MEDICAID PATIENTS, UH, YOU BILL $2,000 FOR THE PATIENT, UH, BUT MEDICAID ONLY GIVES YOU $400. 
          UH, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO, UH, GET SOME OF THE MIDDLE GROUND OF THAT $1,600 GAP, UH, FOR MEDICAID PATIENTS SPECIFICALLY. 
          SO THAT DOES EXIST IN TEXAS AS WELL AS LIKE 2020 STATES TOTAL. 
          AND THEN THERE'S CHARITY CARE PROGRAMS THAT EXIST HERE. 
          COMMUNITY BENEFITS WRITE OFFS, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE CAN'T PAY AND ARE, ARE THERE MECHANISMS TO GET SOME SORT OF REIMBURSEMENT OR RECOVERY OUT OF IT? IN SOME STATES, THERE ARE, LIKE HERE, UM, ON THE FIRE SERVICE, IT'S NOT AS COMMON, BUT IT'S GROWING WHERE FIRE DEPARTMENTS ARE STARTING TO BUILD FOR THEIR SERVICES TOO. 
          SO EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE PAYING TAXES, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE PAYING TAXES FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE SERVICE, NOT NECESSARILY FOR THE USE OF IT, BUT FOR THE EXISTENCE OF IT. 
          AND, UH, AND SO SOME ARE, ARE BUILDING FOR CERTAIN TYPES OF SERVICES, WHETHER IT'S SPILLS AND CLEANUP, UH, WHETHER IT'S FOR INSPECTIONS OR INVESTIGATIONS, SOME OTHER TRANSACTIONAL TYPE OF THINGS. 
          UH, THERE'S GROWING TREND OF THAT THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          AND, UH, KIND OF LAST UP HERE, GETTING INTO SUSTAINABILITY, I A QUESTION ABOUT THE FUNDING. 
          YEP. 
          UM, ARE THERE ANY SPECIAL TAXING DISTRICTS THAT WE MAY HAVE HEARD OF AROUND US? OR WHERE DO YOU USUALLY SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YES, LIKE THE SPECIAL TAX EXPERTS HERE, THE, THE, THE ESDS. 
          I'M TRYING TO THINK OF, UH, ALL OF 'EM THAT WOULD BE, BUT I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S PYRAMID THAT I THINK IS, UH, ONE THAT OPERATES UP OF AN ESD. 
          UM, OH, THIS IS THE ONE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WHERE IT WAS SEVERAL, YEAH. 
          COMMUNITIES COMING TOGETHER TO THERE, SEVERAL COMMUNITIES. 
          THERE ARE SEVERAL KIND OF TAX ZONES, UH, UNINCORPORATED AND INCORPORATED PARTS OF COMMUNITIES COMING TOGETHER. 
          SO A VERY COMMON THROAT, TEXAS, EVEN LIKE YOU LOOK AT LIKE MEDSTAR, WHICH EXPANDED, BUT THAT WAS IN THE SENSE A TAX 
          [00:50:01]
DISTRICT THAT EXISTED. 
          UM, THE EMS SIDE FOR THE FUNDING. 
          OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          YEAH, THEY ARE BECOMING MORE POPULAR IN, IN TEXAS, I THINK AROUND AUSTIN, THERE'S QUITE A FEW, YOU GUYS PROBABLY. 
          YEAH, LUTHERVILLE, UH, IS A COMMON, YOU KNOW, ONE AT LEAST IN THE AUSTIN AREA AS WELL. 
          SO YEAH, A VERY COMMON IN TEXAS, NATIONALLY, IT'S GETTING MORE POPULARITY TOO. 
          AND, AND PART OF IT AS I GET INTO EUROPE EAST IS FROM THE SUSTAINABILITY ASPECT, YOU KNOW, CONSOLIDATIONS, MERGERS, IT'S A REALITY. 
          IT'S SOMETHING THAT MANY, MANY DEPARTMENTS HONESTLY NEED TO SURVIVE. 
          UH, IT'S NO LONGER JUST AN OPTIONS NECESSITY FOR SOME OF THEM. 
          NOW SAID THAT, UH, THERE DOES GET TO BE A POINT WHERE A DEPARTMENT CAN'T BE TOO BIG. 
          AND IN SOME CASES, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SEEING SEPARATION OF SOME DEPARTMENTS. 
          UH, THIS IS HAPPENING IN CALIFORNIA WHERE BIG COUNTYWIDE DEPARTMENTS, WHICH HAVE HELICOPTERS AND BOATS AND SEMI TRUCKS WITH LOGISTICS, MASSIVE DISASTER THINGS. 
          BUT THERE'S THIS SMALL COMMUNITY THAT EXIST IN THE COUNTY. 
          THEY DON'T NEED THE HELICOPTERS, THEY DON'T NEED THESE OTHER THINGS, AND THEY'RE SEPARATING FROM THE BIG DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED THE DATA. 
          THEY JUST NEED THE SMALL. 
          AND SO THEY'RE FINDING A FINANCIAL INCENTIVE TO JUST SEPARATE AND FUND WHAT THEY NEED. 
          SO WHILE CONSOLIDATIONS AND MERGERS MARGINALLY IS THE RESPONSE OR THE NEED IN MANY DEPARTMENTS, NOT ALWAYS, THERE'S A SWEET SPOT THAT I THINK, YOU KNOW, DEPARTMENTS SHOULD BE VERY CAUTIOUS TO GET ABOVE. 
          BUT IF YOU'RE FOLLOWING WITHIN THERE, UH, IT IS A CONSIDERATION. 
          UH, OVERALL THOUGH, EVEN IF YOU DON'T CONSOLIDATE, I THINK THE, THE, THE FOCUS IS BUILDING SOME SORT OF A SYSTEM, WHETHER IT'S A REGIONAL SYSTEM ACCOUNTING SYSTEM, OR EVEN WITHIN YOUR ONE COMMUNITY, HAVING A SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT DOESN'T KEEP YOU ON A SILO FROM OTHERS AROUND YOU. 
          IT IS A BIG PART THAT OUR INDUSTRY HAS BEEN LACKING FROM THE OVERSIGHT, UH, SIDE OF IT, UH, THROUGHOUT OUR ENTIRE INDUSTRY, MANY ADVOCACY GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS ARE SAYING, WE NEED MORE STATE FUNDING, WE NEED MORE FEDERAL FUNDING. 
          I'M NOT SAYING I DISAGREE WITH THAT. 
          UM, BUT THE THING TO CAUTION AND BE ALWAYS AWARE OF IS THAT IF YOU ACCEPT STATE MONEY OR FEDERAL MONEY WITHOUT DUE RESPECT, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT SOME PARAMETERS OUT THERE. 
          AND, AND IF YOU ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU NEED STATE MONEY OR FEDERAL FUNDING JUST TO SURVIVE, WELL, IF THEY MAKE SOME, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE GONNA GIVE YOU MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF MONEY, MAYBE THEY'LL MAKE SOME RULES THAT YOU HAVE TO NOW FOLLOW. 
          WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO DIFFERENTLY SO YOU DON'T CONTINUE AND EXACERBATE THIS PROBLEM? SO THAT'S THE THING THAT OUR INDUSTRY IS FACING IS, YOU KNOW, IS EMS, IS FIRE SERVICE A LOCAL PROBLEM, A STATE TRAVEL OR FEDERAL PROBLEM? I GIVE ITS LOCAL PROBLEM. 
          UM, SO IT, IT IS A UNIQUE DEBATE THAT OUR INDUSTRY IS FINDING. 
          AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS BEST LOCALLY, UH, BECAUSE WHAT IS BEST REGION, WE MAY NOT ALWAYS BE THE RIGHT ANSWER. 
          UM, NOT AN ISSUE HERE, BUT FIGHT DOESN'T STILL EXIST. 
          AND THIS IS MOST COMMON, I WOULD SAY IN THE NORTHEAST, WHERE THIS IS MY BLOCK, THIS IS MY ROAD, THIS IS MY PORTION OF TOWN. 
          IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. 
          AND PROBABLY NO ONE'S GONNA TAKE, TAKE IT OVER, AND THEY'LL FIGHT TO THE DEATH, UM, AT PUBLIC EXPENSE TO KEEP THEIR LITTLE ORGANIZATION LOCAL. 
          UH, AGAIN, NOT SAYING THIS IS A PROBLEM HERE, BUT IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, LIKE THE NORTHEAST, THIS, THIS IS A PLAY AND, AND IT'S TROUBLING NOW. 
          SO IT DOES EXIST, UH, NATIONALLY AGAINST SUSTAINABILITY HAS BEEN A BIG WORLD IN THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS. 
          IDAHO HAD MASSIVE STUDY THAT THEY DID, LOOKING AT ALL 44 OF THEIR COUNTIES ACTUALLY WAS PART OF THAT STUDY. 
          UM, SO THEY, THEY ANALYZED ALL, UH, 44 COUNTIES, LOOKED AT THEM, AND WERE BREAKING DOWN, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT EXISTS, WHAT ARE THE GAPS, WHAT'S NEEDED THROUGHOUT THE STATE? COLORADO IS DOING SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR, UH, AND WHERE THEY HAVE PROBLEMS TOO. 
          AND, AND YOU WOULD FIND IT HERE IN TEXAS, THE POPULATION CENTERS HAVE ONE TYPE OF PROBLEM OR ISSUE OR CONCERN, BUT THEN YOU GO UP TO WEST TEXAS, IT HAS A DIFFERENT LANDSCAPE, TOTALLY DIFFERENT PROBLEMS. THEY'RE ALL THE SAME GLOBALLY, BUT WHAT WHAT'S EXPERIENCED FAR WEST IS NOT GONNA BE THE SAME OR WHAT THEY'RE GONNA FIND PLEX, UH, MICHIGAN TOO. 
          THERE'S A, THERE'S A DISTANCE IN THE GAP BETWEEN MAINLAND MICHIGAN AND UPPER PENINSULA. 
          VAST DIFFERENT PROBLEMS. UH, OHIO, MASSIVE LOSS, YOU KNOW, RUST BELT STATES, UH, MASSIVE LOSS IN THEIR INCOME TAX, UM, ARE FROM, FROM THEIR LOCAL INCOME TAX BASE. 
          PEOPLE ARE LEAVING AND THEY'RE NOT LIVING IN THE COMMUNITIES. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UH, NEED THE SERVICE FROM HOW THEY GET FUNDING FROM INCOME TAX VERSUS PROPERTY TAX, MASSIVE PROBLEMS. SO SOME COMMUNITIES HAVE BECOME GHOST TOWNS, UH, IN OHIO, PENNSYLVANIA, AND ELSEWHERE, AND IT'S JUST NOT WHAT IT WANTS. 
          SO THE FUNDING IS GONE. 
          UH, PENNSYLVANIA, THIS IS A COMMONALITY TO YOU. 
          SO AGAIN, THAT THE, 
          [00:55:01]
THE EXISTENCE OF FIRE MAINTENANCE SERVICES IS AN UNIQUE PROBLEM. 
          MANY STATES REQUIRE THAT YOU HAVE POLICE SERVICES, THEY REQUIRE THAT YOU HAVE FIRE SERVICE, BUT THEY DON'T REQUIRE THAT YOU HAVE AMBULANCE SERVICE. 
          YEAH. 
          UH, IT'S NOT ESSENTIAL. 
          UH, AT LEAST LEGISLATIVELY, IT'S NOT CONSIDERED AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE. 
          IN TERMS OF STATES THAT DO HAVE ESSENTIAL SERVICE LANGUAGE, IT'S OFTENTIMES UNWANTED MANDATE. 
          IT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT, WHICH MEANS THAT ON PAPER YOU CALL 9 1 1, SOMEONE WILL RESPOND. 
          IT MIGHT BE 30 MINUTES, IT MIGHT BE AN HOUR AND A HALF, BUT SOMEONE WILL RESPOND. 
          IT EXISTS, BUT THERE'S NO PARAMETERS WITHIN THAT. 
          SO AGAIN, IN MANY STATES, THE TERM ESSENTIAL, SOMETHING'S GOOD, UH, AND IT GETS, YOU KNOW, SOME VOTES, BUT IT'S NOT FUN TO MANDATE. 
          NOW, SPECIFICALLY WITHIN TEXAS, A FEW THINGS THEY GET PERSPECTIVE ON. 
          UH, AGAIN, UNIQUELY, THIS IS A UNIQUE STATEMENT. 
          IT COMES TO THE CLINICAL WORLD BY DELEGATED PRACTICE. 
          UH, IT'S REALLY THE ONLY STATE THAT'S MOST PROGRESSIVE WITH IT, AND IT'S GOT THE POTENTIAL FOR IT TO BE A MASSIVELY PROGRESSIVE PUSH. 
          UH, AGAIN, IT COMES DOWN TO THE POSITION THAT PROVIDES THE OVERSIGHT, UH, BUT ESSENTIALLY, UH, TO KIND OF KEEP IT SIMPLIFIED. 
          IF, IF YOUR LOCAL MEDICAL DIRECTOR ALLOWS YOU TO DO A SKILL, YOU CAN DO IT, TRAIN THEM, MAKE AN EFFECTIVE SIGN AND STAND OFF, YOU GO AND GO DO IT. 
          IN OTHER STATES, THERE'S SIGNIFICANT PARAMETERS. 
          UH, SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AT TEXAS CLINICALLY, I, I TYPICALLY BENCHMARK NORTH CAROLINA AND WISCONSIN ON THE HIGHER END OF THE SPECTRUM, AND CALIFORNIA AND NEW JERSEY ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SPECTRUM. 
          AND, AND SO TEXAS, UH, I WOULD SAY IS MUCH MORE TOWARD THE FOREFRONT, UH, A LEADING END OF THINGS. 
          WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE STATEMENT FROM THE BIG PERSPECTIVE, CERTAINLY IS NOT IN THE MIDDLE, CERTAINLY IS NOT IN THE BOTTOM. 
          IT'S VERY MUCH OFTENTIMES IN THE TOP TOP FIVE OF WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER CLINICAL PRACTICE. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, PROGRESSIVE AS FAR AS THE OPPORTUNITY THERE, UM, THE EMERGENCY SERVICES DISTRICTS, AND SO WHERE THESES ESPS COME INTO PLAY, MOST OTHER STATES JUST CALL THESE FIRE PROTECTION DISTRICTS PERTAINING TO FIRE PROTECTION. 
          DON'T INCLUDE EMS, TEXAS INCLUDES EMS. SO I THINK THAT'S A VERY STRONG POSITIVE MOVE AND A GOOD PUSH, UH, COMPARATIVELY IDAHO, COLORADO HAVE, THEY'RE TRANSITIONING TOWARD ALLOWING EMS DISTRICTS, NOT JUST FIRE PROTECTION DISTRICTS, AGAIN, THE OPPOSITE SPECTRUM. 
          NEW YORK, PENNSYLVANIA, CONNECTICUT, UM, YOU'LL HAVE A, A COMMUNITY WITH 20,000 PEOPLE AND YOU'LL HAVE 5, 6, 7 FIRE DEPARTMENTS COVERING IT. 
          NOT STATIONS, BUT DEPARTMENTS, INDIVIDUAL CORPORATIONS. 
          SO VERY, YOU KNOW, INTO THE OPPOSITE OF THE SPECTRUM AS FAR AS HOW THEY FUNCTION AND ORGANIZ. 
          AND PLUS, UH, WITH REGARD TO AMBULANCE TEST, I THREW THIS TERMINAL BEFORE. 
          THERE WAS A STUDY THAT WAS PRODUCED, UH, FROM SOME, SOME COLLEAGUES IN MAINE. 
          AND WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT IS, YOU KNOW, AREAS OF COVERAGE THAT, UH, HAVE AN AMBULANCE RESPONSE GREATER THAN 25 MINUTES FROM THEM. 
          AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, IT'S NOT AN ISSUE HERE, BUT THERE ARE PARTS OF TEXAS THAT HAVE DESERTS. 
          UH, SOME OF THE STATES HAVE THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF RESIDENTS WITH DESERTS MADE, VERMONT, OREGON, WASHINGTON, UH, BUT YOU KNOW, WASHINGTON'S UNIQUE WHERE EITHER YOU LIVE IN SEATTLE, TACOMA, AND, YOU KNOW, THE COASTAL AREA OR THE REST OF THE STATES, JUST WHEATLAND AND MOUNTAINS, BUT NO ONE'S THERE. 
          SO IT'S UNIQUE FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. 
          STATES WITH FEWER  DISCOVERING EVERY, UH, THOUSAND SQUARE MILE. 
          AGAIN, MOSTLY WESTERN STATES. 
          SO AS WE LOOK NATIONALLY AND EVEN DIGGING INTO TEXAS, THE ORANGE INDICATES MORE OF A DESERT AREA, NOT A PROBLEM SO MUCH WITHIN THE POPULOUS COUNTIES, BUT AS YOU LOOK WEST, UH, YOU KNOW, THINGS SPREAD OUT. 
          NOW HAVING SAID THAT, HOW MUCH OF THAT IS DESERT OR FARMLAND, RANCH LAND, YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S NO RESONANCE TO COVER, BUT AT LEAST ON PAPER, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A GAP. 
          SO HERE, GIVING PERSPECTIVE, EACH OF THE BLACK DOTS ON THE LEFT SIDE INDICATES, UH, WHERE AN AMBULANCE IS PHYSICALLY LOCATED OR STATIONED ON THE RIGHT SIDE THROATS IN HOSPITALS. 
          SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT GAPS WHEN YOU WORK WESTERN, UH, IS IN THE STATE, BUT YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH OF THAT AGAIN, IS DESERT RANCH AND NOTHING AS FAR AS POPULATION. 
          ANYWAY, LEGISLATIVELY, THE STATES THINGS HAVE COME UP, UM, UH, S SP IN 1916, AND THAT REMOVES EMS CARE FROM OUT NETWORK DISPUTES. 
          THERE'S, UH, DISPUTE WITHIN THE INDUSTRY ON DMS IN NETWORK, OUT NETWORK, HOW IT BEING FUNDED AND VANS MAIL AND BILLING. 
          UH, BUT BASICALLY THROUGHOUT THE STATE THEY SET KIND OF A, A, A LIMIT AND IT'S HIGHER THAN THE MEDICARE, UH, BASIC RATE. 
          SO IT'S A GOOD PLACE, YOU KNOW, GETTING SOME DECENT LEASE FUNDING COMPARED TO OTHER STATES. 
          UH, WHEN IT COMES TO MEDICARE PATIENTS, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY ACCOUNT FOR PRIVATE PAYER COMMERCIAL PAY 
          [01:00:01]
OR MEDICARE, BUT JUST, UH, I'M SORRY, THIS SAYS MEDICARE IS NOT MEDICAID. 
          UH, HB 35, UM, WORKS TO CONNECT PROVIDERS WITH PEER SUPPORT NETWORKS TRYING TO PROMOTE MENTAL HEALTH WITHIN THE INDUSTRY. 
          THIS IS SOMETHING THAT JUST RECENTLY BECAME LIVE. 
          UH, THERE'S RECENTLY REQUESTED, UH, MONEY THAT'S THERE FOR PUSHING, UH, BLOOD ADMINISTRATION THROUGHOUT THE STATE AS WELL. 
          SO THIS IS A GROWING CLINICAL TREND THAT WE'RE FINDING. 
          AND THEN ALSO THROUGHOUT THE STATE PUSHING, UH, SUPPORT FOR EMS EDUCATION AND TRAINING JUST IN GENERAL. 
          SO, UH, THE ASK THE REQUEST IS THERE, UH, STILL WAITING TO FIGURE WHETHER, YOU KNOW, THE MONEY WILL FOLLOW WITH IT. 
          AGAIN, WHERE'S THE MONEY GONNA COME FROM? TAXES, UM, THE WANTS, YOU KNOW, WHO WANTS TO GET MORE FOR IT? SO THAT'S THE DEBATE THAT ALWAYS THERE. 
          SO LIKE I SAID, EMS IS KIND OF, IT'S AT A CROSSROADS, UH, IN ANY PART SERVICE OF COUNTRY. 
          THEY'RE OUT A CROSSROADS AND THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF LIKE STREET PATH. 
          IT'S EITHER LEFT OR RIGHT. 
          AND THAT'S CERTAINLY WHERE WE'RE AT AS AN INDUSTRY. 
          UH, YOU'RE EITHER GONNA FOLLOW THIS MODEL AND GO THIS WAY OR YOU'RE GONNA FOLLOW THAT MODEL AND GO THAT WAY AND, AND MUCH MIDDLE GROWTH. 
          BUT HAVING SAID THAT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, WE'LL FIND COMMON ELEMENT. 
          WHAT I SEE IS THE DIRECTION FOR MANY, MANY PLACES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          NOT SAYING THIS IS HAPPENING HERE, I DON'T SEE THIS HAPPENING HERE, BUT WHAT DOES EXIST FOR A LOT OF PLACES, ESPECIALLY RURAL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, IS THE DIRECTION IS LOOKING IN ONE WAY AND IT'S CONTINUED FINANCIAL PROBLEMS WITH CONTINUED PRESSURE TO OPTIMIZE OPERATIONS, WHICH THEY JUST CAN'T DO. 
          CONTINUED FOCUS, UH, PROBLEMS WITH THE, WITH RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION. 
          NOT FINDING PEOPLE, NOT MAKING PEOPLE, UH, NOT EVEN, NOT BEING ABLE TO MITIGATE THE VOLUNTEERISM ISSUES THAT EXIST IN THE COUNTRY OR ADDRESSING PAY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET THE FUNDING FOR IT. 
          UH, NOT EVEN BEING ABLE TO BUILD ANY SORT OF SYSTEM THAT EXISTS. 
          AND FROM THERE, UH, LACKING COMMUNICATION, LACKING, JUST BE ASKED, FOCUSING ON THIS, THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DONE AND THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          COLLAPSE IS, IS, IS COMING. 
          I WOULD SAY COLLAPSE IS COMING. 
          MAYBE I'M A PESSIMIST. 
          UM, BUT AGAIN, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY RURAL MARKETS, IN SOME OF THESE OTHER STATES, THERE'S GONNA BE SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS WHEN IT COMES TO, ESPECIALLY UMAS. 
          IT JUST IS NOT GOING TO EXIST. 
          AND THE ONLY WAY TO PROBABLY MITIGATE THAT FOR MANY OF THEM IS SIGNIFICANT FUNDING FROM TAXES. 
          THAT'S THE ONLY SOLUTION THEY HAVE. 
          THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM HERE. 
          NOT TO THIS EXTENT, TOTALLY DIFFERENT, BUT NATIONWIDE, THIS IS A BIG ISSUE. 
          SO I STARTED BEFORE BY SAYING, YOU SEEING ONE EMS AGENCY, I WOULD ARGUE THAT YOU'VE ACTUALLY SEEN A THOUSAND THOUSAND. 
          UH, NO ONE DEPARTMENT IS SO UNIQUE OR SO DIFFERENT, OR SO SPECIAL THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS THE SAME PROBLEMS. THERE ARE MANY OTHERS LIKE IT THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS, PUT A DIFFERENT NAME ON THE PATCH, AND IT'S THE SAME TYPE OF THING. 
          SO I WOULD SAY IF YOU SEE ONE UNIT, ONE UNIT, YOU'VE SEEN A THOUSAND OF THEM, NOT JUST ONE. 
          SO, UH, THAT'S MY, AT LEAST TAKE ON, ON THE MISNOMER THAT'S THERE. 
          AND I THINK THE, THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE THAT I SEE THROUGHOUT OUR INDUSTRIES, WE WENT THROUGH THIS PHASE OF DOING MORE WITH LESS, AND WE DID THAT WELL. 
          WE ADAPT AND OVERCOME. 
          IT'S A PROBLEM. 
          WE SOLVE IT. 
          SO WE FOUND A WAY TO DO MORE WITH LESS. 
          AND I THINK MANY DEPARTMENTS ARE AT THIS POINT WHERE THEY JUST CAN'T, THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING MORE WITH LESS BECAUSE THEY'RE AT JUST THE BOTTOM. 
          SO NOW THE TASK IS PEOPLE WORK DIFFERENTLY. 
          HOW CAN WE DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY WITH WHAT WE HAVE? NOT SAYING IT'S GOTTA BE LESS, BUT HOW CAN WE DO IT DIFFERENTLY? AND ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE TRYING TO SURVIVE OR SUSTAIN OR EVEN THRIVE IN SOME, SOME SITUATIONS, HOW CAN WE DO THIS DIFFERENTLY THAT WE CAN DO THAT? SO THAT'S THE CHALLENGE I HAVE THE AGENCIES AND THAT'S WHAT OFTENTIMES TRY TO HELP THEM DEFINE. 
          SO QUESTIONS, AGAIN, A LOT THROWN AT YOU, SPEAKING IN HIGH LEVEL GENERALITIES, GIVEN THE CONTEXT, CONTEXT OF WHAT EXISTS ELSEWHERE. 
          BUT THIS AGAIN, LAYS THE FRAMEWORK TO SOME OF THE DISCUSSION COMING UP LATER ON. 
          WHY IS TRANSITIONING TO A DIFFERENT SHIFT IMPORTANT FOR, WHAT ARE THE PITFALLS OF TRANSITIONING? WHAT'S THE IMPACT GONNA BE ON THIS PER THAT OPERATIONS? YOU KNOW, IF YOU TRANSITION TOWARD PRIVATE EMS, UH, WHAT'S THE IMPACT GONNA BE ON FIRE SERVICE PEOPLE OR EVEN THE RELATIONSHIP THAT EXISTS. 
          SO WHATEVER THE CHANGE WOULD BE, THERE'S A TRICKLING DOWN EFFECT. 
          SOMETIMES IT GOES DOWNHILL, UH, BUT SOMETIMES THERE'S OPPORTUNITY. 
          SO YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE FACING THIS PROBLEM, BUT YOU'RE PROBABLY ONE OF THE FEW THAT ARE ACTUALLY TAGGED HEAD ON LEASE. 
          SO LOTS STUFF, NO QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU, TIM. 
          UM, LIKE TO OPEN UP THE QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION. 
          I HAVE A QUESTION. 
          MERYL, ER, ON THE, UM, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PRIVATE AND AMBULANCE AND, UH, HAVING 
          [01:05:01]
A PARAMEDIC AND EMT, AND IT'S FOR BASICALLY THE EMTS JUST SAVE MONEY. 
          THE DIFFERENCE IN, UH, FUNDING FOR A, I MEAN, OBJECTIVELY, YOU KNOW, A, A PARAMEDIC IS ROUGHLY 1200 HOURS OF TRAINING AND EMT IS 200 HOURS. 
          SO THERE'S A COST DIFFERENCE. 
          YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY WHEN YOU HAVE THE TWO OF THEM, UM, WHETHER IT'S SIGNIFICANT OR NOT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT BE A 5,000 TO $10,000 DIFFERENCE, YOU KNOW, ANNUALLY PER PERSON. 
          UM, CLINICALLY THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. 
          AND SO IN A LOT OF SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CONCEPT IS NOT EVERY CALL ROUGHLY 50% ACTUALLY NEED A PARAMEDIC. 
          SO IT'S NOT A PARAMEDIC ORIENTED CALL. 
          ACTUALLY EMT RIGHT? PATIENT GETS THE CLINICAL EXPERIENCE. 
          WHAT IS ASSOCIATED NEXT TO A PARAMEDIC CLOSELY THERE MONITORING THEM, BUILDING THEM UP INTERNALLY TO MAYBE BECOME A PARAMEDIC. 
          THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE, THE THOUGHT THAT EXISTS THERE. 
          AND QUITE HONESTLY, UH, SOME, SOME FIREFIGHTERS, SOME EMTS JUST DON'T WANT TO BE PARAMEDICS. 
          MAYBE SOMETHING SHOULDN'T BE. 
          AND SO THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO BE INVOLVED IN WHAT THEY DO WITHOUT HAVING TO BE A PARAMEDIC. 
          BUT OVERALL, FOR PATIENT CARE, ISN'T IT BETTER TO HAVE TWO PARAMEDICS? NO. 
          UH, THE, THE CONCERN WITH TWO PARAMEDICS IS SKILL DEGRADATION. 
          SO YOU TAKE A SKILL LIKE, LIKE INATE ITSELF, PUTTING IN A, A BREATHING TUBE IN THEIR AIRWAY. 
          IT DOESN'T HAPPEN OFTEN. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE A HUNDRED PARAMEDICS THAT ACT TO THIS SKILL ONCE EVERY TWO YEARS, WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE THAT OR WOULD YOU HAVE 50 PARAMEDICS THAT THAT DO IT AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR OR MULTIPLE TIMES PER YEAR? SO THERE'S A SKILL DEGRADATION ISSUE THAT THAT IS OFTENTIMES TALKED ABOUT IN THE INDUSTRY. 
          NOW, THERE'S WAYS TO TRAIN AND USE SIMULATION AND PROMOTE, TRY TO WORK AROUND THAT. 
          BUT, UM, TOO MANY CHEFS IN THE KITCHEN COULD BE A PROBLEM. 
          IT'S NOT A NEED. 
          I WOULD SAY. 
          DO WE RUN TWO PARAMEDICS AND AN AMBULANCE AT ALL TIMES? WE DO BECAUSE WE JUST SIT 55 PARAMEDICS. 
          WE'LL START SOLO HELPS, THANK YOU. 
          AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AND, AND NOT TO, YOU KNOW, CAST STONES OR THROW ANYTHING, BUT, YOU KNOW, 100% PARAMEDIC DEPARTMENTS ON TOP OF THAT ARE RARING, UH, SIGNIFICANT MINORITY OF DEPARTMENTS WOULD A HUNDRED PERCENT PARAMEDICS. 
          AGAIN, MOSTLY GOING BACK TO THE COST FACTOR AND THE SKILL, UH, DEGRADATION FACTOR. 
          SO IT IS NOT COMMON. 
          I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S BAD, BUT IT IS JUST OBJECTIVELY, TRANSPARENTLY. 
          IT IS NOT COMMON. 
          GROSSLY NOT COMMON, YES. 
          WHY MARGARET LEFT. 
          UM, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE STATES THAT WERE VERY SIMILAR TO US. 
          YEAH. 
          I'D LOVE FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE MORE. 
          NORTH CAROLINA AND WISCONSIN. 
          UM, CLINICALLY OBVIOUS, THEY'RE, THEY'RE SIMILAR. 
          YEAH. 
          OPERATIONALLY DIFFERENT. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          SO DO YOU WANT ME TO EXPAND ON, ON A CERTAIN PART, PLEASE. 
          YEAH. 
          SO CLINICALLY, I WOULD SAY THAT LIKE, I WOULD SAY TEXAS IS VERY CLOSE UP WITH WISCONSIN AND, AND NORTH CAROLINA, UH, BECAUSE OF THE, THE SKILL THAT'S ALLOWED, WHAT, WHAT AN EMT CAN DO IN TEXAS, UH, IS, IS VERY CLOSE TO WHAT THOSE OTHER TWO STATES COULD DO. 
          OR WE CAN SAY THE OTHER TWO STATES ARE VERY CLOSE TO T TEXAS CAN DO. 
          UM, WHEREAS YOU TAKE, YOU KNOW, CALIFORNIA WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE GIVING SOMEONE, UH, ASPIRIN, ASPIRIN AS A MEDICATION, UH, I CAN BE RECALL, YOU KNOW, A TIME OR ASPIRIN AS A MEDICATION FOR AN EMT WASN'T ALLOW ALLOWABLE SKILL. 
          WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA, NORTH CAROLINA, UH, EMTS HAVE BEEN GIVING ASPIRIN TO PATIENT FOR, WITH CHEST PAIN FOR 35, 40 YEARS. 
          AND THIS IS THE NEW SKILL IN CALIFORNIA, CIRCA 2010, UH, PUTTING IN A A, AN AIRWAY IN SOMEONE'S THROAT, UH, THAT DOESN'T GO IN THEIR, THEIR BREATHING, THEIR, THEIR TRACHEA. 
          IT GOES IN JUST THEIR STOMACH AND KIND OF BLOCKS THINGS OFF OF. 
          SO IT'S NOT THE SUPER AIR AIRLINE. 
          CONNECTICUT'S NOT ALLOWED, UH, FOR EMTS. 
          UH, CALIFORNIA DON'T BELIEVE IT'S ALLOWED, UH, WISCONSIN FIRST RESPONDERS. 
          SO A LEVEL LOWER THAN EMT, UH, HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO IT. 
          I WAS TRAINED IN 2002, SO SINCE THE NINETIES. 
          UH, SO, AND IN TEXAS, YOU KNOW, WITH DELEGATED PRACTICE ESPECIALLY FALLS WITHIN THAT AREA. 
          SO CLINICALLY I WOULD PUT TEXAS TOWARD THE TOP OF THE HEAP AS FAR AS WHAT'S ALLOWED, WHAT'S PRACTICED AND WHAT IS PROGRESSING OPERATIONALLY. 
          YEAH, THOSE STATES ARE VASTLY DIFFERENT. 
          SO WHAT EXISTS IN LIKE NORTH CAROLINA AND SOUTH CAROLINA ISOLATED THOSE TWO OUT, UH, 
          [01:10:01]
THOSE STATES COMMONLY HAVE COUNTY BASED AMBULANCE SERVICE, UM, THAT IS SEPARATED FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. 
          FIRE DEPARTMENTS MIGHT RESPOND WITH FIRST RESPONSE TYPE RESOURCES, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE ANNUAL SERVICE THAT USUALLY EXISTS AT A COUNTY LEVEL. 
          UH, SO THAT JUST VASTLY DOESN'T KNOW WHAT EXISTS HERE. 
          UH, WHEREAS WHAT EXISTS HERE IS VERY REFLECTIVE OF THE MIDWEST, WHICH IS VERY COMMONLY FIRE DEPARTMENT IS THE END SERVICE IN THE MUNICIPAL SENSE. 
          MOST CITIES POPULATION OF 20,000 AND ABOVE FIRE BASED EMS IN THE MIDWEST IS VERY COMMON. 
          SO, SO I WOULD SAY THAT YEAH, TEXAS REFLECTS, YOU KNOW, THESE HAVE IN THE GOVERNMENT ESPECIALLY REFLECTS VERY COMMONLY WITH THE MIDWEST AND HOW THAT SERVICE WOULD OFFER. 
          AND THEN, UM, I WANNA EXPAND ON MERYL'S QUESTION ABOUT PARAMEDICS. 
          AND SO IF YOU WERE TO GO TO AN EMT AND PARAMEDIC, UH, BASE SYSTEM FOR AMBULANCE, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PARAMEDIC THAT IS NOT ANY LONGER, YOU KNOW, ON THE, ON THE AMBULANCE IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE HIRING MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST EMT TRAINED AND UM, LIKE WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE PARAMEDICS? WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR, UM, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE IT'S, IT SOUNDS TO ME KIND OF LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND NO, IT'D BE SO, SO IN, IN, IN THE DEPARTMENTS THAT TYPICALLY OPERATE THAT WAY, SO LET'S, LET'S SAY A HUNDRED, A HUNDRED EMPLOYEES JUST AROUND THE NUMBER OFF A HUNDRED EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY LOOKING AT SOMEWHERE AROUND LIKE, UH, FOUR, LIKE FIVE , THEN BALLPARK ISH, SO 5, 10 30. 
          SO YOU WOULD NEED ROUGHLY 45 PARAMEDICS. 
          SO YOU COULD HAVE HALF AND HALF. 
          AND IF, IF, IF SOMEONE IS ON AN AMBULANCE FOR THAT DAY, YOU LIKELY HAVE SOMEONE WHO'S, YOU KNOW, PARAMEDIC THAT'S NOT ON THE AMBULANCE, BUT THAT MEANS THEY'RE ON THE FIRE TRUCK. 
          THEY'RE STILL FIRST RESPONDING. 
          IF AN AMBULANCE IS OUT ON THE CALL, A FIRE TRUCK GETS THEIR FIRST, IF YOU STILL PROVIDE CARE, THEY CAN STILL FUNCTION AS A PARAMEDIC. 
          NOTHING IS LOST AS FAR AS SKILL. 
          THEY'RE JUST OPERATING ON A FIRETRUCK AT THEY AT GIVEN MOMENT. 
          BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD FLIP FLOP THOSE, THOSE PEOPLE WHERE TODAY I WANT A FIRE TRUCK TOMORROW I'M ON AN AMBULANCE. 
          BUT BACK AND FORTH THAT WAY YOU ALWAYS STILL, UH, THE, THE SKILLED MAINTENANCE OF WORKING ON BOTH THE VEHICLES, THERE'S NO LOSS. 
          YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS ASSIGNED TO ONE OR THE OTHER, POPPING BACK AND FORTH. 
          AND THERE'S CONSTANT USE, UTILIZATION MOVEMENT AND SKILLED MAINTENANCE. 
          I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT THAT'S HOW OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT WORKS  RIGHT NOW. 
          UM, HAVE YOU SEEN THAT WORK IN OTHER CITIES? BECAUSE I THINK JUST THE GENERAL CULTURE OF THE, THE DEPARTMENT IS YOU START ON AN AMBULANCE AND THEN YOU GRADUATE TO, UM, THE ENGINE AND, AND AFTER A, A LONG TIME AND AFTER BUILDING SENIORITY, UM, AND THAT'S ALBERT HAPPENS, AND I, I'M SORRY THAT'S ALBERTO HAPPENS SOME PLACES THE AMBULANCE IS SEEN AS A PENALTY. 
          I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR HERE. 
          'CAUSE I, I DON'T KNOW THE CULTURE HERE TO SAY THAT I DOUBT THAT'S THE ISSUE FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR. 
          SO AGAIN, THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM HERE. 
          BUT I'VE SEEN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE THAT IS, THAT IS THE PROBLEM, IS THAT YOU ARE STUCK UNDER, IT IS A PENALTY TO BE ON THE AMBULANCE. 
          AND IN FACT, IN SOME PLACES YOU'RE PROBABLY EVEN TURNED OVER FOR PROMOTION BECAUSE THEY NEED MORE PARAMEDICS SO THEY KEEP YOU ON THE AMBULANCE. 
          SO IT, IT, IT IS AN ABSOLUTE NEGATIVE THAT SOME OPERATE THAT WAY IN THE MIDWEST IN MANY SITUATIONS, UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS IS PART OF THE JOB, THIS IS NORMAL, YOU JUST DO BOTH. 
          AND THAT, AND THAT'S NOT MY CAREER PERSONALLY, HOW IT WAS WE WOULD FIGHT TO BE ON THE AMBULANCE. 
          THAT JUST WAS OUR CULTURE. 
          NOT EVERY PLACE LIKE THAT, BUT THAT, THAT EXISTED WHERE I WAS AT LEAST. 
          UM, SO YEAH, YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN FUNCTION THAT WAY. 
          AND MANY OTHER DEPARTMENTS, AGAIN, MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY DOES NOT OPERATE THE A HUNDRED PERCENT PARAMEDIC SYSTEM. 
          UH, SO YEAH, IT DOES EXIST LARGELY. 
          I MEAN OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE MANY, UM, AMBULANCE, WE HAVE MANY PARAMEDICS THAT STAY ON THE AMBULANCE FOR THEIR ENTIRE CAREER. 
          IT'S NOT, I'M NOT TRYING TO, THEY DON'T DO THAT. 
          I'VE JUST, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'VE SEEN. 
          SO, YEAH. 
          AND THEN YOU, YOU TALKED ABOUT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW ABOUT PARAMEDICS GETTING BURNED OUT. 
          SO I MEAN, IT'S HOW, HOW, HOW ARE THEY WORKING? WHAT KIND OF SHIFT THE PARAMEDIC AND EMT ARE THEY DOING? 12 HOUR SHIFTS? NO EXACT SAME THING, RIGHT? NO, WHEN IT'S, WHEN IT'S A FIRE BASED SYSTEM, TYPICALLY 24 HOURS IS THE MOST COMMON, PROBABLY 90 SOMETHING GREATER PERCENT, 24 HOUR SHIFTS. 
          SO, SO WITH THE, THE FIREFIGHTERS ARE STILL GONNA BE THIS GONNA BE THE SAME PARAMEDIC ON 
          [01:15:01]
THE YEAH, YOU'RE A FIREFIGHTER. 
          EMT FIREFIGHTER PARAMEDIC. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE FIREFIGHTER PARAMEDICS HERE. 
          BUT I MEAN, I'M SAYING YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE A FIREFIGHTER AND EMTI MEAN A PARAMEDIC AND EMT RISING WITH THAT PARAMEDIC IS GONNA BE ON THE AMBULANCE ALL THE TIME IF INSTEAD OF SWITCHING OUT, UH, SO CLARIFY, IF IT IS ONLY, IF, IF THEY'RE ONLY A PARAMEDIC, IF THEY'RE NOT A FIREFIGHTER, THEN YEAH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ON THAT. 
          AND SO THERE ARE SOME FIRE DEPARTMENTS, ESPECIALLY I'M SEEING IT GROW HERE IN TEXAS WHERE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHICH HAS FIREFIGHTERS, UH, BUT ALSO HAS FIREFIGHTER EMTS, FIREFIGHTER PARAMEDICS, THEY'RE STARTING TO HIRE SOLO EMTS OR SOLO PARAMEDICS. 
          THEIR SOLO JOB IS TO WORK ON AN AMBULANCE. 
          SO YES, IN THAT SITUATION, THEY CANNOT GO TO A FIRETRUCK BECAUSE THEY ARE QUALIFIED, UH, IN THAT MATTER. 
          THEN, IF THEY WERE UP TO 24 HOUR SHIFT, JUST LIKE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT DOES 20 FOLLOWERS ON FOUR EIGHT OFF, LIKE  DOES AS AN EXAMPLE, IT'S ACTUALLY UNIQUELY A BALL OF WAX WHERE, UH, THE FIREFIGHTERS WORK UNDER A, EVERYONE WORKS 56 HOURS A WEEK ON AVERAGE. 
          FIREFIGHTERS GET PAID ON A 53 HOUR WORK WEEK SCHEDULE, UH, WITH THREE HOURS OVERTIME. 
          GENERALLY SPEAKING, IF YOU ARE JUST A PARAMEDIC, YOU'RE NOT A FIREFIGHTER, YOU HAVE TO BE PAID ON 40 HOUR WORK WEEK. 
          SO THE DYNAMIC THING IS ACTUALLY VASTLY DIFFERENT. 
          SO THAT BECOMES A PAY ISSUE OR A PARITY ISSUE. 
          YEAH. 
          ISSUE. 
          WELL, HERE THEY, THEY'RE FIREFIGHTER PARAMEDICS, SO I MEAN THEY, THEY SWITCH OUT ENOUGH. 
          BUT I'M SAYING, YOU'RE SAYING, UM, SOME OF 'EM WHERE YOU JUST NEED THE EMT OR SOME OF THOSE, IT IS GONNA BE THAT SAME PARAMEDIC RIDING, THEY, THEY WON'T HAVE A ABILITY TO SWITCH OUT. 
          YEAH. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE A FIRE STATION THAT HAS A FIRE ENGINE AND AN AMBULANCE IN IT, AND YOU KNOW, SAY THAT'S THREE PEOPLE ON THE ENGINE, TWO ON THE AMBULANCE, THAT'S FIVE PEOPLE TOTAL. 
          IF AT LEAST TWO OF THEM ARE PARAMEDICS AND YOU KNOW, THREE OF THEM ARE EMTS OR EVEN TWO, TWO EMTS AND THREE PARAMEDICS, YOU JUST ROTATE THEM? WELL, NO, BECAUSE I'M ON THE FIRE ENGINE, THERE'S GONNA BE A DRIVER AND THERE'S GONNA BE A CAPTAIN, YOU KNOW, SO THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE SWITCHING, YOU KNOW, OUT THE DRIVERS ON THE, ON THE ENGINE. 
          THE CABIN ON THE ENGINE, YEAH. 
          IF YOU OPERATE THAT WAY. 
          BUT AGAIN, IF, IF, IF THE, THE ISSUE WAS SOLVING A PROBLEM AT HAND, SOME DEPARTMENTS DON'T OPERATE THAT WAY WHERE YOU ARE SOLELY STUCK ON THIS APPARATUS OR ARE SOLELY STUCK WITH THIS, THIS ROLE. 
          SOME DON'T OPERATE THAT WAY. 
          YEAH, WELL I'M, I'M JUST, I DON'T CALL YEAH, THAT'S WHAT IT IS. 
          AND DALLAS TOO, I BELIEVE DALLAS RIGHTS TWO PARAMEDICS. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL THEN, I MEAN, THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT, AGAIN, DOING, DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY. 
          SO IF, IF THE CAPTAIN IS A PARAMEDIC, WHAT'S IT TO SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO BE ON THE AMBULANCE EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE THAT ALLOWS FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO BE A CAPTAIN ON BEYOND THE FIRE ENGINE THAT'S NORMAL THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. 
          AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO, WELL, THAT'S POSITION, YOU TEST FOR CAPTAIN, YOU TEST FOR DRIVER, SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ROTATED ON. 
          SO, SO INTEGRATE STRUCTURE OR YOU ABANDON THE STRUCTURE AND YOU START OVER, OR YOU FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT ALL WORK TOGETHER. 
          OR YOU AS A MEDICAL DIRECTOR, SAY, IF YOU'RE A PARAMEDIC, YOU MUST BE ON THE AMBULANCE SYSTEM MANY TIMES PER YEAR, OR I'M NOT GONNA BE LICENSED. 
          YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S, THERE'S OPTIONS OR DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES. 
          EVERYONE DOES IT DIFFERENTLY. 
          UH, AND, AND IF THE, IF THE PROMOTIONAL STRUCTURE PROHIBITS ONE OVER THE OTHER, THEN, THEN OKAY, MAINTAIN IT. 
          CHANGE IT. 
          SO AGAIN, JUST DIFFERENT OP DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR HOW THINGS ARE DONE. 
          NOT EVERY DEPARTMENT OPERATES THE SAME WAY AS, AS WHAT, AS ALL, UH, GOVERNMENT DOES. 
          YEAH, WELL, I'M JUST SAYING A POSITION FOR A CAPTAIN ON, THAT'S THE CAPTAIN'S POSITION. 
          YOU KNOW, HE, HE MAY STILL HAVE HIS E EM T BUT HE'S, HE'S NEVER GONNA RIDE DOWN CAPTAIN. 
          SO. 
          WELL, AND THAT BRINGS UP A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION THEN, BECAUSE THEN WELL, DO THEY NEED TO BE AN EMT OR PARAMEDIC AT ALL? WELL, EMTI THINK THE STATEMENT REQUIRE WHETHER , SO THEN WHY DO YOU HAVE PARAMEDICS AS CAPTAINS? WELL, THEY'RE, WELL THEY MAY HAVE THEIR PARAMEDICS PATCH, BUT I'M SAYING THE CAPTAIN ON THE FIRE ENGINE, YOU'RE A CAPTAIN ON THE FIRE ENGINE, YOU KNOW, YOU AND YOU'RE WITH FIRE GROUND AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BUT A PARAMEDIC, THE AMBULANCE CAN, IT COMES TO CLINICAL CARE. 
          CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, DOCTOR. 
          CORRECT. 
          WHEN IT COMES TO CLINICAL CARE, YOU WOULD EXPECT THE EXACT SAME THING OUT OF A PARAMEDIC ON A FIRE ENGINE VERSUS AN AMBULANCE CLINICALLY. 
          SO JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE ON A FIRE TRUCK VERSUS AN AMBULANCE, THERE SHOULD BE NO DIFFERENCE IN CLINICAL CARE OR COMPETENCY BETWEEN ANY PROVIDER. 
          PARAMEDIC IS A PARAMEDICS, PARAMEDICS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT WELL, WELL, YEAH, THEY HAVE THE PARAMEDIC SKILLS 'CAUSE THEY HAVE A PARAMEDIC ENGINE, BUT THE, THE CAPTAIN IS NOT GONNA RIDE THE PRIVATE AMBULANCE. 
          HE'S NOT GONNA RIDE AN AMBULANCE. 
          HE'S GONNA BE, HE'S IN CHARGE OF THE FIRE ENGINE IN THAT STATION. 
          SO I'M SAYING HE'S NEVER GONNA BE ON THE AMBULANCE. 
          HE HAVE THE SKILLS, YOU KNOW, TREAT BECAUSE THEY'LL ALWAYS TREAT HIM BEFORE THE AMBULANCE GETS THERE. 
          , ONE SIDE OF THE EQUATION WOULD BE WHY NOT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION IS 
          [01:20:01]
IF YOU HAVE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RIGHTS THAT PROHIBIT A CONTRACT OR CB PROHIBITS THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          SOME DEPARTMENTS DO, SOME DEPARTMENTS DON'T IT, IT'S DIFFERENT. 
          SO IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE WITH, WITH ONE PRACTICE, UH, GO FOR IT. 
          I'M JUST TELLING YOU THAT THERE, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY, THERE'S AN OPTION THAT EXISTS IN THE SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM, THAT'S ALL. 
          YEAH, WELL I WAS, I MEAN THE MAIN THING I WAS ASKING WAS, YOU SAID A PARAMEDIC AND EMT, BUT YOU HAVE AN EMT, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NEVER GONNA YES. 
          LESS PEOPLE TO ROTATE AS A PARAMEDIC MORE WE START TALKING ABOUT THE STRESS THAT THE, THE PARAMEDICS HAVE AND NEED 72 HOURS OFF AND EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT. 
          SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION, UM, DIFFERENT DISCUSSION WE'LL GET INTO. 
          BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE LOOKING, IF THE PARAMEDIC HAS STRESS BEING ON THE AMBULANCE, THEN I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU ROTATE THEM OFF THE AMBULANCE. 
          AND IF THAT MEANS THAT FOR THE BETTERMENT OF EVERYONE THAN A CAPTAIN WITH THE PARAMEDIC LICENSE RIGHT FROM THE AMBULANCE, IT HELPS OUT YOUR BROTHER OR YOUR SISTER. 
          WHAT'S THEM ON THE AMBULANCE IN THEIR PLACE. 
          SO THERE'S, THERE'S, IT IS NOT TASK ISSA. 
          WELL, HOW FAMILIAR ARE YOU WITH OUR DEPARTMENT AND HOW THINGS WORK AT OUR DEPARTMENT? GENERALLY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT? OF HOW THINGS OPERATE? NO, NOT I, NOT A GENERAL SPECIFIC TO GARLAND. 
          HAVE YOU SPENT TIME IN OUR STATIONS? HAVE YOU, HOW FAR INTO THIS HAVE YOU BUILT IN OUR CITY SPECIFICALLY? NOT IN GENERAL. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I I I'VE GOT SOME BASIC KNOWLEDGE AND SOME UNDERSTANDING YOU, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT STATIONS, UH, A COMBINATION OF FIRE APPARATUS OR FIRE ENGINES MATTER, COMPANIES WITH OUTSIDE RESOURCE, ADDITIONAL RESOURCES, AMBULANCE THAT ARE THERE. 
          TYPICALLY TWO PERSON AMBULANCE STAFFING, TYPICALLY THREE PERSON, UH, FIRE APPARATUS STAFFING A GOAL FOR A HUNDRED PERCENT PARAMEDIC STAFFING THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE, UH, SYSTEM. 
          SO YEAH, UNDERSTANDING OF THAT CONTEXT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO I FEEL LIKE THAT'S, UM, A PRETTY FACEBOOK, UH, KNOWLEDGE OF A, OF A, OF A DEPARTMENT. 
          UM, IF YOU'VE BEEN INTO ANY OF OUR STATIONS, IT'S A DIFFERENT CULTURE, RIGHT? SO I DON'T ACTUALLY GET TOO CRAPS ABOUT HOW ANY OTHER STATE IN THE COUNTRY DOES THEIR FIRE DEPARTMENT. 
          WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FIXING WHAT WE NEED TO FIX, THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON. 
          IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT CONNECTICUT OR NEW JERSEY OR YOUR MOM OR WHOEVER IS DOING, WHATEVER THE CERTAIN WAY WE NEED TO DIVE INTO WHAT WE ARE DOING AND HOW WE NEED TO FIX IT. 
          ALL OF THAT WAS, I, IT WAS TIME TO, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT IN IT AND I KNOW THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE DONE, BUT IT'S REALLY HARD TO SIT HERE AND THINK THAT WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING A HUNDRED PERCENT PRIVAT PRIVATIZATION. 
          WHEN YOU YOURSELF MADE A POST TWO MONTHS AGO, BEING ASSIGNED TO AN AMBULANCE IS VIEWED AS A PUNISHMENT BY MEMBERS OF YOUR FIRE DEPARTMENT. 
          I'VE GOT TWO THOUGHTS FOR YOU. 
          YOUR DEPARTMENT CULTURE IS S**T. 
          OR SECOND, YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN THE BUSINESS OF AMBULANCE SERVICE OR POSSIBLY EVEN EMG RESPONSE PERIOD. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, SO WE HAVE THE CULTURE TREATS, AMBULANCE, STAFFING IN SUCH A NEGATIVE WAY THEY SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN THIS INDUSTRY. 
          SURE. 
          SO WHAT I'M ASKING IS, HAVE YOU SPENT TIME AT OUR STATIONS WITH OUR GUYS IN AN AMBULANCE IN A TRUCK BUDGET WHEN YOU PLEDGE ON DOING THAT? I'M GONNA BE COMING HERE EVERY MONTH FOR THE NEXT THROUGH MAY. 
          SO MY, MY DAY IS, MY DAY IS OPEN TO SPEND TIME WITH THEM. 
          HIGHLY RECOMMEND 24 HOURS, SIX WITH OUR GUYS. 
          I DID IT ON SUNDAY. 
          HIGHLY RECOMMEND BEFORE I, I WOULD, I WOULD ACTUALLY RECOMMEND ANYONE ON THIS COMMITTEE TO GO SPEND A COUPLE HOURS AT THE STATION, JUST A COUPLE, NOT EVEN A FULL 24. 
          GO SPEND A COUPLE OF A COUPLE OF HOURS WITH THOSE GUYS AND LADIES. 
          WELL, AND, AND AGAIN, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, BUT I'M HERE SPEAKING OBJECTIVELY AND WITHOUT EMOTION. 
          AND IT'S AN IMPARTIAL, AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, YOU'RE SPEAKING FROM THE MOTION RIGHT NOW, I MEAN'S A RESIDENT OF BARLAND WHO HAS A VESTED INTEREST. 
          SO ABSOLUTELY. 
          I HAVE A MOTION. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          AND SO, AND I, AND I'M NOT, SO I'M SPEAKING AS SOMEONE FROM THE OUTSIDE, GIVING YOU CONTEXT AND INSIGHT TO WHAT EXISTS ELSEWHERE SO THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE AN IMPORTANT DECISION OF WHAT EXISTS ELSEWHERE. 
          JUST GIVING YOU THE CONTEXT WITHOUT BIAS, WITHOUT EMOTION. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WITHOUT BIAS, WITHOUT EMOTION, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE OUR SYSTEM IS BROKEN BEFORE WE WORRY ABOUT HOW EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT. 
          SURE. 
          AND THOSE ARE VALID QUESTIONS THEY ASK. 
          I CAN'T ANSWER THEM RIGHT NOW. 
          I WOULD, I WOULD . 
          BUT THOSE ARE VERY GOOD QUESTIONS TO ASK. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YEAH. 
          SCOTT, I HAVE A QUESTION. 
          UH, YOU MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE, THERE'S ALTERNATIVES TO EVERYTHING. 
          MM-HMM . 
          UM, MY DAUGHTER IS A PARAMEDIC IN A DEPARTMENT THAT HIRES THAT DOES THE PARAMEDIC. 
          UM, AND THAT IS FAIRLY NEW AND IT'S NOT, IT'S GROWING. 
          [01:25:01]
BUT HAS THERE BEEN ENOUGH TIME AND OR DATA COLLECTED ON THAT TO SEE HOW THAT'S IMPACTING FIRE SERVICE EMS SERVICES? I MEAN, IS THERE, HAS THERE BEEN ENOUGH, ARE THERE ENOUGH PEOPLE DOING IT? HAS THERE BEEN ENOUGH TIME OF IT BEING DONE TO SHOW ANY? HAS IT MOVED THE NEEDLE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AS FAR AS PROBABLY NOT. 
          AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF DATA, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD EXPLORE. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, ASIDE FROM, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, IT'S SUBJECTIVE IN NATURE. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF, DATA CAN GET THE SUBJECTIVE LIKE THAT. 
          UM, BUT YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S, IT'S A NEWER CONCEPT AND IT'S NOT AS COMMON. 
          SO, SO PROBABLY NOT LIKE IT, IT IS, AND THAT WOULD BE THE ONE THING WHERE WHEN YOU WOULD TRY TO ASSIMILATE IN, UH, NON FIRE PERSONNEL INTO A FIRE DEPARTMENT ENVIRONMENT, IT JUST, THINGS ARE DIFFERENT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, AND WHETHER YOU CAN QUANTIFY THAT OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, IT IS SOMETHING, AGAIN, SUBJECTIVE THAT I THINK AS A FIREFIGHTER YOU CAN HELP ANECDOTALLY. 
          UM, BUT QUANTIFYING IT, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT CAN BE QUANTIFIED. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THEN JUST TO FOLLOW UP, AND I KNOW THIS IS NEXT MONTH'S MEETING, BUT LOOKING AT ONE OF THOSE SLIDES PREVIOUSLY NO, MATT AND ALLISON HAVE A SPREADSHEET WITH A PROBLEM FOR EVERYTHING. 
          UH, BUT IN, IT WAS MENTIONED IN REIMBURSEMENTS AND MAINLY OUR HISTORY WITH COLLECTIONS, WHICH HAS BEEN CHALLENGING YES. 
          TO SAY OF KIND OF WHERE WE ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT HAS TO FACTOR INTO OUR FINANCES. 
          WELL, OBVIOUSLY. 
          SO, UH, I WOULD HOPE TO SEE THAT IN YOUR PRESENTATION NEXT, BUT THEN I'M SURE IT WAS PROBABLY ALREADY GONNA BE IN THERE. 
          IT WAS ALREADY GOING TO BE THERE. 
          I FIGURED THIS MUCH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YEAH. 
          AND IN RESPONSE, IF I MAY, TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S BROKEN WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT, THERE, THERE MAY NOT BE ANYTHING BROKEN. 
          LIKE FROM WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE AND FROM WHAT I, YOU GOT A SOLID DEPARTMENT, SO THERE MAY NOT BE ANYTHING THAT IS BROKEN EXCEPT FOR THE FACT YOU JUST DON'T HAVE MORE MONEY. 
          AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. 
          SO CULTURALLY, LIKE THERE MAY NOT BE, THERE MAY NOT BE ANYTHING THAT FIX, IT'S, IT'S GOOD, BUT YOU JUST CAN'T SUSTAIN WHAT YOU HAVE. 
          AND, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, NEXT, NEXT MONTH MAY JUST BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION IS THERE'S NOTHING TO FIX, ASIDE FROM HOW CAN WE ON THIS. 
          SO, AND, AND THAT, I, I WOULD BE SURPRISED THAT VERY LIKELY IS, IS THE RESULT IS THAT THERE'S NOTHING INTERNAL TO FIX, ASIDE FROM HOW DO WE FUND IT. 
          AND IF WE CAN'T FUND IT THE WAY WE'RE DOING IT NOW, THEN YOU KNOW, WHAT ALTERNATIVE MODEL DO YOU NEED TO LOOK AT TO DO IT? OR WHAT CAN YOU DO INTERNALLY TO CHANGE AND SAVE A HUNDRED THOUSAND 1.2 MILLION 600,000, $48,000 HERE AND THERE. 
          MATT WATSON, UM, BEEN TRYING TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THE 24 72 HOUR SHIFTS. 
          AND UH, THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION, BUT I, IS THERE A DEPARTMENT THAT IS SIMILAR TO GARLAND THAT HAS OPERATED THAT SHIFT FOR SOME TIME NOW? I HEAR A LOT ABOUT WE'RE MOVING, WE'RE MOVING, WE'RE TRANSITIONING, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN A, A DEPARTMENT THAT'S YEAH. 
          OPERATING ON THAT SHIFT. 
          A LOT OF DEPARTMENTS ARE MOVING TOWARD IT OR WITHIN, OR ARE WITHIN PROBABLY THEIR FIRST TWO-ISH YEARS OF IT. 
          UM, FLORIDA, YOU KNOW, MANY DEPARTMENTS IN FLORIDA ARE MAKING A MOVE TOWARD IT. 
          IT'S GROWING HERE IN TEXAS. 
          UH, TON DELAWARE HAS BEEN DOING IT FOR A WHILE. 
          UM, BUT AGAIN, THEY OPERATE DIFFERENTLY. 
          THEIR AMBULANCES ARE NOT PARAMEDIC AMBULANCES AS EM MT. 
          AMBULANCES STAFF. 
          DEFINITELY. 
          SO THAT'S ONE THAT COMES TO MIND. 
          THEY'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR A FEW YEARS. 
          UM, SO IT, IT'S, IT'S A NEWER MEDICINE MEDICINE WISCONSIN, I THINK HAS BEEN FOR, UM, SO MEDICINE, WISCONSIN, UM, INSIDE THE BELTWAY, I'M SORRY, EVERYTHING INSIDE THE BELTWAY OF THE DC AREA, , , NOT PLACES I'VE INTERACTED WITH OR AT LEAST BEEN FAMILIAR WITH ARE STILL ON THREE PLATOON. 
          SO THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE SOME THERE, BUT LIKE  GOES ON THREE PLATOON BALTIMORE I BELIEVE STILL IS ON THREE. 
          SO IT'S, IT IS VERY COMMON STILL FOR THEM TO BE ON THE, THE THREE PLATOON, THE YEAH. 
          56 HOUR WORK WEEK MODEL RATHER THAN 4 15 42. 
          SO IT'S MORE COMMON IN THE PAST ONE, TWO YEARS LOCALLY, LOCALLY. 
          [01:30:01]
PLAINTIFF'S THE ONLY ONE THAT'S OFFICIALLY ON THAT DIRECTION. 
          UNIT SIMILAR SIZE. 
          YES. 
          THERE'S, UH, SDS, HOUSTON, HARRIS COUNTY,  AREA HAS BEEN ON FOR HERE TO YEARS. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THE REASON WHY I WAS ASKING WAS JUST FOR, UH, I MEAN I KNOW ABOUT PLAYING OUT WITH SOME OF THE CITIES IN FLORIDA MAKING THAT TRANSITION, BUT THEY'RE IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THAT AND JUST TRYING TO FIND ANY CASE STUDIES OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION. 
          'CAUSE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY OF THIS AND BEING ABLE TO TOUCH IN DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS AND SEE HOW OTHER WAYS THAT THEY ARE, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PICKING AND CHOOSES FROM SOME OF THE THINGS YOU'RE SHOWING UP THERE TO MAKE THIS WORK FOR THEIR COMMUNITY. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND IT'S, UH, I THINK MADISON'S PROBABLY THE LONGEST ONE AT LEAST I CAN THINK OF. 
          AND I THINK THEY'RE THE ONLY ONE WHO'S THAT DOES THAT. 
          UM, BUT THEY'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR A WHILE IF MY MEMORY IS CORRECT. 
          SO IT IS NOT COMMON, YOU KNOW, FINANCIALLY, UH, THE THREE PLATOON MODEL, 56 HOUR WORK WEEK IS PROBABLY THE MOST FINANCIALLY GOOD FOR, FOR COMMUNITIES TO DO. 
          AND THAT'S WHY IT'S BECOME THE MOST COMMON. 
          UM, WHAT WE DO, YOU KNOW, VASTLY DIFFERENT. 
          IT JUST COMES DOWN TO FTES, YOU KNOW, DO YOU SUPPORT A SYSTEM WHERE IF YOU NEED A HUNDRED PEOPLE PER DAY PLUS YOU A HUNDRED PEOPLE MAX THREE SHIFTS OR A HUNDRED PEOPLE FOUR SHIFTS OR, YOU KNOW, THE OPPORTUNITY DOES COME UP INTO PLAY. 
          AND, AND CERTAINLY PART OF FUTURE DISCUSSION WOULD BE WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE? YOU KNOW, CAN YOU STILL GO TOWARD THIS BUT FIND A HAPPY MEDIUM? UM, YOU KNOW, MANY DEPARTMENTS THAT UTILIZE THIS TYPE OF MODEL USE IT BECAUSE, UH, NOW IT PUTS PEOPLE BACK ON THE 40 HOUR WORK WEEK, WHICH LEVELS THE PLAYING FIELD FOR FIREFIGHTERS AND NON FIREFIGHTERS. 
          YOU DON'T HAVE FLSA PROBLEMS OR ISSUES , BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT CHANGE, IT ALLOWS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO MODEL CHANGE WHERE YOU NO LONGER NEED STATIC AROUND THE CLOCK HIGH COVERAGE WHEN YOU CAN INSTEAD FOCUS YOUR HIGH COVERAGE ON PEAK TIMES VERSUS NINE TIMES. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, BY LOOKING AT THE DEPARTMENT DATA AND THEN COUNTING FOR WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE OPPORTUNITIES TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THAT. 
          AND THAT WOULD MEAN 12 OVER SHIFTS FOR SOME PEOPLE VERSUS 24. 
          NOW, HOWEVER, THE FLIP SIDE OF NET POINT IS THAT CULTURALLY 12 OVER SHIFTS IN THE FIRE SERVICE IS VERY UNCOMMON. 
          UH, YOU'LL PROBABLY FIND MAYBE ONE PERSON EVERY 10 THAT WOULD BE INTERESTED IN IT. 
          SO THEN IT BECOMES A SIGNIFICANT RECRUITMENT PROBLEM IN 50 12 HOUR INTEGRATIONS. 
          SO AGAIN, I'M JUST HERE TO GIVE YOU THE TRANSPARENT PEOPLE SIDES. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT THERE'S OPPORTUNITY. 
          IT MIGHT BE UNCOMFORTABLE. 
          QUESTION MARK LEE. 
          UM, ADD ON WHAT TIM HAS ALREADY SAID TO, UH, WE NEED FORCE STUFF BROKEN IN OUR SYSTEM. 
          NOTHING. 
          WE'VE GOT THE ABSOLUTE BEST. 
          AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS BE PROACTIVE AND MAINTAIN THE BEST, TAKE CARE OF THE BEST. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S THE GOAL. 
          THERE IS NO GOAL PRIVATIZING US. 
          THERE'S GOAL TO TAKE CARE OF OUR PEOPLE AND EXPLORE OPPORTUNITIES TO THE FINANCIAL BURDEN BY DEFINITION OF TAKING CARE OF OUR PEOPLE COULD CREATE. 
          SO IT'S NOTHING BROKEN IN OUR SYSTEM. 
          WE'VE GOT A  SYSTEM, THE TWO MAYOR PARAMEDIC SYSTEM. 
          WE'VE GOT ONE THE BEST MEDICAL DIRECTORS, MANKIND, THAT REQUIRES OUR CAPTAIN. 
          PARAMEDICS BE PARAMEDICS. 
          THEY CAN'T PASS PROTOCOL TEST. 
          IF THEY CAN'T DO A SKILL, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE A PARAMEDIC. 
          YEAH. 
          AND KUDOS. 
          SO I MEAN, LIKE SERIOUSLY KUDOS. 
          THAT'S NOT COMMON. 
          SO LIKE, GOOD FOR YOU FOR THAT. 
          IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE OUT THERE. 
          THE REST, AND THAT'S WHERE I'M TRYING TO STAY IS AHEAD OF THE REST. 
          I JUST WANNA, YOU KNOW THE PROBLEM, I'M NOT TRYING TO FIX NOTHING. 
          LOOK, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BOOKS , BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR MY SUPPORT. 
          OKAY. 
          I KNOW THAT, BUT I READ, I READ YOUR POST , BUT I MEAN, I MEAN, I DO HAVE SOME SERIOUS SUGGESTIONS OF THINGS THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY TREAT THAT WOULD HELP. 
          LIKE THE JAIL, THE JOANIE IS THEIR OWN MEDIC. 
          OKAY? THE JOAN NEEDS HER OWN OUT OF THEIR BUDGET STATION. 
          ONE HAS RAN 526 CALLS 
          [01:35:01]
THIS CALENDAR YEAR TO, TO THE JAIL. 
          OUT OF FIVE CALLS THAT WE RAN ON SUNDAY, ZERO OF THEM WERE TRANSPORTED. 
          EVERY ONE OF THEM WAS OFFERED TRANSPORT VIA PD AND THEY ALL DECLINED AS SOON AS THEY WERE IN INFORMED PD COULD TAKE THEM. 
          SO, AND TO CLARIFY, ARE YOU TALKING JAIL OR PRISON? JAIL. 
          JAIL. 
          OKAY. 
          JUST THE CITY JAIL. 
          BECAUSE, BECAUSE THERE, THAT DOES EXIST WHERE SOME, UH, COMMUNITIES DO HAVE CONTRACTS. 
          UH, SO LIKE INSTEAD OF BUILDING TERMS OF SAR, YOU, PLA, PD, MORE COMMON IC, BUT PRISON. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THAT WAS KIND OF WHERE THE THOUGHT WAS COMING FROM WAS LIKE YOU HAVE TO INFIRMARY IN PRISON, BUT 20% OF 20% OF THAT STATION'S CALLS IS TO THE JAIL. 
          AND ONLY ONE OF THEM ACTUALLY NEEDED MEDICAL HELP. 
          AND SHE WANTED, SHE JUST NEEDED A NEBULIZER. 
          AND THEN SHE WAS ASKED IF SHE WANTED TO BE TRANSPORTED. 
          SHE SAID, NO THANK YOU. 
          I'D JUST LIKE TO GO TO HER SLEEP. 
          ALL THE GUYS, OH, I'M DYING. 
          I NEED TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL. 
          YOU'RE NOT CRITICAL. 
          YOU'RE NOT CRITICAL, BUT PD CAN TAKE YOU, OH NO THANK YOU. 
          LIKE IT IS A HUGE, HUGE BURDEN ON THE SYSTEM. 
          AND THAT'S JUST WHAT STATION ONE HAS GONE TO. 
          THAT'S NOT INCLUDING WHAT STATION TWO AND STATION THREE HAVE ALSO RESPONDED TO WHEN STATION ONE IS OUT IN THE FIELD. 
          SO I WOULD LIKE US TO EXPLORE THOSE KIND OF OFF KILTER, UM, ITEMS THAT WOULD BE A HUGE, UM, BURDEN LIFTED FROM, FROM YOU GUYS. 
          UM, ALSO THE BIOMETRICS OF FIRE AND EMT. 
          I'VE DONE THE DEEPEST OF DIVES IN ALL THINGS EMT AND FIRE. 
          UM, I, I WOULD LIKE US TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT START TIMES. 
          'CAUSE I KNOW IN THE FIRST MEETING WE TALKED ABOUT BURNOUT AND HOW THAT'S A THING. 
          AND UM, THE BIOMETRICS OF LIFE TELL US THAT YOUR BODY ACTUALLY WANTS TO WAKE UP AT 8:00 AM SO I WOULD LIKE US TO EXPLORE OPTIONS OF WAKING UP OR INSTEAD OF A SEVEN A SEVEN, I'M GONNA PUNCH IN INSTEAD OF HAVING A 7:00 AM START TIME, LIKE, LET'S, LET'S LOOK AT AN 11 OR 12 O'CLOCK, SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. 
          SO THAT WAY YOU'RE HAVING ALL OF YOUR MAJOR MEALS WITH YOUR FAMILY. 
          YOU'RE SLEEPING LONGER IN YOUR OWN BED. 
          IT DOES BETTER. 
          LET'S LOOK AT COLD PLUNGES. 
          DON'T REALLY WANT JUST TO FIGHT RIGHT NOW. 
          DON'T Y'ALL, AND EVEN EVEN TO TAKE ONTO THAT FOUR O'CLOCK AND, AND YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC IS, IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST THEORY OF SOME OF THAT. 
          BUT I LIKE, I DON'T DISAGREE LIKE THAT. 
          THAT IS A VALID POINT OF, IF THE CONCERN IS HEALTH, WELLBEING, SAFETY FOR ONE OR 24 HOURS SAFE PERIOD IS A QUESTION YOU SHOULD ASK. 
          BUT THEN YES, IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU START AT SEVEN O'CLOCK VERSUS EIGHT O'CLOCK VERSUS 11 O'CLOCK VERSUS FOUR O'CLOCK, VASTLY DIFFERENT. 
          IT CHANGES YOUR WHOLE WHOLE LIFE. 
          IT CHANGES, YOU KNOW, YOUR RESPONSE. 
          YOU COME INTO WORK, YOU DO MINIMAL ACTIVITY TO SITUATE FOR THE DAY, KNOWING THAT YOU MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE WONDERFUL SLEEP, BUT AT LEAST THEN DURING THE DAYTIME YOU COULD POTENTIALLY CATCH UP. 
          SO LIKE THOSE ARE ALL VIABLE THINGS. 
          UH, AL THE CITY OF ALMAN DID A RECENT SURVEY WHERE THEY SURVEYED THEIR ENTIRE PARTY DEPARTMENT, UH, LOOKING AT ALTERNATIVES, THE SCHEDULING, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING ALTERNATIVE START TIMES GENERALLY THEY'RE NOT FAVORED, BUT THEY'RE VALID. 
          SO I, I TOTALLY AGREE THAT THOSE ARE VALID QUESTIONS TO ASK UNCOMFORTABLE QUESTIONS. 
          THOSE ARE VERY VALID TO ASK. 
          MEAN CHANGE, CHANGE IS SCARY FOR EVERYONE. 
          SO I GET IT. 
          BUT I THINK THAT THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING INTO WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMPROVING QUALITY OF LIFE AND QUALITY OF SERVICE. 
          UM, WHAT IS THE 1, 1 3, 2 3? DID I, DID I SAY THAT CORRECTLY? I DIDN'T EVEN LOOK THE PAPER. 
          UM, LIKE THAT, THAT'S A DIFFERENT SCHEDULE OPTION THAT MAYBE WE NEED TO, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. 
          I JUST KNOW THAT IT'S A THING. 
          UM, BUT THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT WE COULD LOOK AT THAT WON'T COST US AN EXORBITANT AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT ARE POSSIBLE. 
          WHETHER THEY'RE FEASIBLE, I DON'T KNOW. 
          BUT THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD DEFINITELY EXPLORE. 
          UM, ALSO SIDE NOTE, UM, I WOULD LIKE ALL OF OUR FIRE STATIONS TO HAVE COLD PLUNGE TUBS BECAUSE UH, WHEN YOUR BODY TEMPERATURE IS RAISED, YOU DON'T GET TO HEAL, RIGHT? LIKE, I MEAN OUR FIRST MEETING WAS TALKING ABOUT HITTING THE WRIST AND ALL OF THAT. 
          SO THE BIOMETRICS PROVED THAT IF YOUR BODY TEMPERATURE IS RAISED, YOU CAN'T GET INTO THAT HEALING PART. 
          AND SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD OFFER FOR OUR GUYS. 
          SO KEEP, I WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND. 
          COUNCILMAN DUTTON  
          [01:40:01]
STATION ONE, STATION SEVEN WILL BE HAVING STATION SIX AS A HOT OUTSIDE. 
          SO TO RAISE THE HEAT ALLOWS YOU TO SWEAT OUT TOXINS FROM THE SOOT AND SMOKE ONE AND SEVEN WILL ALSO HAVE A GOLD PLUNGE INSTALLED IN THE ORGANIZATIONS. 
          SO WE'RE BIOMETRICS IS WHAT BRINGS US HERE. 
          DELAYED START TIMES I HERE ON THIS TREE, THERE'S GONNA BE TWO ROBES BEHIND  . 
          THAT'S FINE. 
          I'LL DIAL ON. 
          YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TO LEARN ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          THE PORTLAND SCHEDULE 1, 2, 2, 3, UH, THE 48, 96 TO 24, 48, THE LATEST PART TIMES, UH, ALL, ALL THINGS IN MY BRAIN BOUNCE. 
          SO WE NEEDED TO HAVE THIS GROUP TO VET OUT ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          SO THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THOSE THINGS UP. 
          BUT I GOT YOU A RESERVED SPOT. 
           I'LL, IT IS FINE. 
          I'LL TAKE AND THE JAIL, SORRY, COME BACK IN THERE. 
          UH, CHIEF BRIAN AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE JAIL FOR SEVERAL MONTHS ABOUT DIFFERENT OPTIONS. 
          LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN. 
          THAT'S A BEATING. 
          LIKE I FEEL LIKE, LIKE YOU GUYS CAN ATTEST, THOSE ARE THE CALLS THAT JUST THEY DRAIN YOU LIKE THAT THE SAME YEAR. 
          YOU TALKING ABOUT THE READING TREATMENT, ROBERT. 
          OH YEAH. 
          LOVE THAT. 
          LOVE THAT. 
          BUT LIKE THOSE KIND OF, THOSE KIND OF CALLS ARE JUST, THEY'RE BRUTAL. 
          AND IT'S HARD ON OUR EQUIPMENT. 
          IT'S HARD ON OUR GUYS. 
          IT'S EVERY TIME YOU START AN ENGINE AND THAT, HOW MUCH MONEY IS THAT $50 DOWN BEFORE YOU PULL OUT THE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO I THINK IS THAT FACTUAL? I PULLED THAT OUT OF THE AIR. 
          OKAY. 
          I WAS JUST CHECKING. 
          I MADE IT UP. 
          UM, NOT A LITTLE. 
          UM, WELL THE BIGGEST ISSUE WITH THAT IS WHENEVER WE GO TO THAT TYPE OF CALL NOW IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO RESPOND IF SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS CLOSE TO THAT AND NOW THAT PERSON HAS TO WAIT. 
          AND THEN IF THAT HAPPENS THREE DISTRICTS OVER, MAYBE THEY'RE WAITING FOR AMBULANCE 10 TO COME OUT OF ITS CAVE AND COME ALL THE WAY DOWN THERE TO TREAT THEM. 
          UM, SO YOU MENTIONED ALL THE OTHER SCHEDULES. 
          UM, I THINK THE BIGGEST IN REVEAL WITH A LOT OF THE STUDIES THAT ARE GOING ON FOR 56 HOUR WEEK. 
          SO  SCHEDULE 24, 48, UH, THE ONE IN 49 6 ARE ALL 56 HOURS. 
          THEY'RE JUST REVERSALS OF THE SAME SCHEDULE. 
          SO ULTIMATELY I THINK YOU'RE GONNA FIND THE SAME CHALLENGES NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. 
          IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. 
          UM, THE ONE THING ABOUT 24 48 VERSUS A PORTAL OR A 48 9 6 IS IT DOES HAVE PERKS FOR US. 
          UM, LESS DRIVING IN UM, MORE CONSISTENT TIME OF FAMILY. 
          YOU MIGHT FEEL BETTER, BUT THE SCIENCE IS KIND OF SAYING THAT YOU'RE REALLY NOT RECOVERED. 
          'CAUSE IF YOU'RE UP, LIKE YOU WERE, YOU DID TWO SHIFTS LIKE YOU DID THE OTHER DAY IN A ROW, LIKE WE DON'T HAVE THE PEOPLE CIRCULATE, YOU KNOW, AND GET OFF THE AMBULANCE RIGHT NOW. 
          SO, UM, REALLY I GUESS THERE'S NOT MUCH OUT RIGHT NOW THAT SAYS 24 7 2 IS THE ANSWER. 
          BUT IT'S ALMOST GOTTA BE A BETTER SOLUTION THAN ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THEY'RE TRACKING ALL OF THIS IN REGARDS TO SLEEP. 
          LIKE FIRES ARE GOING DOWN, OUR FIRES ARE GOING DOWN NATURALLY WHAT I WAS, WHAT I WAS ABLE TO COME ACROSS EARLIER. 
          SO OUR FIRES ARE GOING DOWN, OUR CANCER RATES ARE GOING DOWN. 
          SO WHAT'S CAUSING THE CANCER? YOU KNOW, SO WE TALKED ABOUT PLASTICS THE OTHER DAY. 
          CAN'T BE PLASTICS AND IT'S NOT BURNING AS MUCH, YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S A LOT TO LOOK AT AND I THINK THAT EVERYBODY'S PROBABLY GONNA GO 24 72 PLANO IS JUST STARTING THE TRAIN. 
          AND UNFORTUNATELY I THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA PAY FOR IT EITHER WAY. 
          'CAUSE EITHER PEOPLE ARE GONNA LEAVE AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REPLACE 'EM OR WE CAN BE PROACTIVE AND GET SOMETHING FOR OUR MONEY. 
          UM, AND IT'S JUST GONNA TAKE SUPPORT FROM EVERYBODY I THINK FINANCIALLY. 
          JASON, UH, JASON CONNER. 
          SO TO INCH TO TO, TO RESPOND TO YOUR, WE'RE GONNA LOSE PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE SCHEDULE. 
          YES SIR. 
          I'VE SPOKE TO SOME AND THEY'RE LIKE, WE'RE NOT GONNA LOSE THAT MANY, YOU KNOW. 
          AND THE, UH, THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS THAT PLANO ONLY CAN HAVE SO MANY POSITIONS TO FILL AND THERE'S GONNA BE MORE THAN JUST GARLAND APPLYING FOR THAT POSITION. 
          I'M JUST SAYING IF WE LOST PEOPLE TO PLANO, NOW IF IT STARTS GETTING TO WHERE MORE DEPARTMENTS ARE GOING 24 72, YOU STILL HAVE THE SAME THING. 
          IF IT'S JUST ONE AT A TIME, BECAUSE THERE'S ONLY SO MANY POSITIONS A DEPARTMENT HAS TO FILL. 
          BUT YOU CAN LOSE THE BEST ONES. 
          THE ONES THAT WELL, I MEAN, BUT, BUT IF YOU LOSE, IF YOU LOSE A SENIOR FIREFIGHTER, HE'S NOT GONNA GO START OVER BECAUSE WHEN YOU TRANSFER FROM DEPARTMENT TO OTHER DEPARTMENTS, YOU START BACK OVER AT THE BOTTOM. 
          IS THAT NOT TRUE? SURE. 
          BUT BUT INDEPENDENT THEY ALSO DO LATERAL TRANSFERS TOO. 
          DEPENDS 
          [01:45:01]
WHAT, WHAT THEY'RE OFFERING. 
          OKAY. 
          IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY'RE OFFERING. 
          OKAY. 
          WHERE MANSFIELD GOES TO THIS, IT OFFERS A LATERAL, THEN I CAN GO BE A DRIVER OVER THERE. 
          I CAN GO BE A DRIVER DAY ONE. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT I THINK I FACTOR IN THE TIME AT WORK AND AM I GONNA BE HEALTHIER IN THE LONG RUN? WHAT WHAT THERE, THERE'S A MULTITUDE OF BENEFITS THAT WOULD GO MORE THAN THEY WOULD OUTWEIGH STARTING OVER. 
          ESPECIALLY LIKE YOU'VE GOT A, A LARGE DEPARTMENT OF REALLY YOUNG SMART GUYS MM-HMM  UM, AND I THINK LOOK IN THEIR CHOPS IF  GUYS ARE SHOWING UP ON TEST LISTS. 
          SO I THINK, I THINK IT WOULD HURT A LOT. 
          LIKE I SAID, IT, YOU'RE GONNA, IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY TO REPLACE SOMEBODY 360,000 PER FIREFIGHTER AFTER THE PARAMEDIC. 
          SO THAT STARTS TO ADD UP. 
          IF YOU LOSE 20, I MEAN IT'S OVER 6 MILLION BUCKS RIGHT THERE. 
          SO YOU CAN EITHER BE PROACTIVE AND WE CAN FAKE THE STAND OR DO SOMETHING PROACTIVE IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. 
          NOT SAYING NOW, BUT ONE DAY. 
          UM, AND THEN HOPEFULLY YOU'LL BE ABLE TO KEEP EVERYBODY. 
          'CAUSE IF THAT HAPPENED, NOBODY WOULD LEAVE PLANO THE OTHER DAY. 
          HOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ON RAIL? THIS OUR YEAH, WE FIVE TEST. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE HAD 500 SHOW UP TO TEST. 
          PLANO HAD 58 FIREFIGHTER PARAMEDICS CERTIFIED SHOW UP TO TAKE THE TEST. 
          I BELIEVE THEY HAD ABOUT 400 FIREFIGHTER EMTS SHOW UP CERTIFIED. 
          SO THEY ONLY HAVE TO SEND THOSE GUYS TO PARAMEDICS TO SCHOOL. 
          THAT'S ON THEIR ELIGIBILITY LIST. 
          THAT'S, THEY HAD WAY MORE SHOWS TO TAKE THE TEST. 
          I'M SURE THAT'S PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN HIRE THAT, THAT MET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS. 
          SO WE CAN'T EVEN GET THAT. 
          AND WE HAVE HARDLY ANY REQUIREMENTS. 
          SURE. 
          AND REALLY WE, WE HAVE ALMOST NOBODY THAT WORKS THAT CAME FROM A DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT. 
          I WORKED AT RAILHEAD FOR A YEAR THAT CAME HERE. 
          THERE'S THREE OR FOUR OTHER PEOPLE MAYBE IN THE DEPARTMENT FROM LIKE ONE YEAR. 
          LIKE MY DRIVER WORKED AT SPRINGS FOR FIVE YEARS. 
          SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF THOSE GUYS. 
          THERE'S ME AND I THINK THREE OTHERS. 
          SO OF 297 FIREFIGHTERS, THERE'S LESS THAN 10 THAT HAVE EVER WORKED ANYWHERE ELSE. 
          PLAINO, ALL OF THEM WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR THE MOST PART. 
          I MEAN VERY RARE DOES SOMEBODY GET HIRED THERE 21 FRESH OUT OF SCHOOL. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT THEY WENT TO. 
          WELL I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR, UM, THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED. 
          UM, I ALSO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT WE CAN'T COMPETE WITH PLANO. 
          THEY HAVE A MUCH HIGHER TAX BASE THAN WE DO. 
          THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE, THEY'RE ALWAYS GONNA BE PLANO, YOU KNOW, GARLAND IS GARLAND AND YOU CAN'T COMPARE GARLAND WITH PLANO. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, I I WISH WE COULD, I WISH WE HAD A HIGHER TAX BASE. 
          I THINK IT WOULD SOLVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, BUT WE ARE WHERE WE'RE AT, UM, SIMPLY BECAUSE WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A BLUE COLLAR CITY. 
          SO HAVE YOU SEEN THE BREAKDOWN OF THE COMPARISONS OF US FINANCIALLY WITH OTHER CITIES WHERE WE STAND? YES. 
          HAVE YOU LOOKED AT ANY OF THAT OTHER INFORMATION? YES, WE DO IT ALL TIME. 
          YEAH. 
          OR NUMBER OF 1213 FUNDING ONLY ARLINGTON IS BEHIND US, I'M PRETTY SURE. 
          SO I MEAN, AND WE, WE, I THINK OUR CALL VOLUMES GONE UP 28% SINCE WE ADDED A PIECE OF APPARATUS. 
          I MEAN WE HAVEN'T, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE WE'VE SPENT ANY MONEY ON A LONG TIME ON STUFF. 
          SO I MEAN, AND EVEN IF WE DID FUND AN ENTIRE D SHIFT, WE'D GO FROM NUMBER 12 TO NUMBER NINE. 
          THAT'S WHAT ADDING THE D SHIFT IF COST $13 MILLION, THAT'S WHAT PUT US IN COMPARISON IS THAT PRIORITIZING THAT IS NO PROBLEM. 
          BMS HIRING 85. 
          WELL ALLISON , WHY THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GONNA BE NEXT MONTH. 
          WE HAVE VISITATION FOR YOU. 
          AND I THINK PART OF, PART THE DISCUSSIONS I WOULD SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE HAVE AS WELL IS, IS OKAY, SO IF YOU CHANGE THE, THE SCHEDULE TO A 42 OH WORK WEEK AND ON FREE OFF, WHAT DOES THAT DO TODAY? SO IF, IF THE DOMAIN IS HIGH TODAY, IF YOUR WORKLOAD IS HIGH TODAY DURING THE 24 HOUR SHIFTS THAT YOU WORK, WHAT DOES HAVING MORE DAYS OFF DUE TO TODAY, DOES IT LESSEN YOUR WORKLOAD TODAY? DOES IT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT TODAY OR DO YOU CONSIDER ADDRESSING THE ROOT PROBLEM, WHICH IS MAYBE YOUR OVERWORK AND THE VOLUME IS TOO HIGH FOR TODAY. 
          SO PERHAPS MAYBE THE SOLUTION ISN'T CHANGING THE SCHEDULE. 
          MAYBE IT'S ADDING MORE RESOURCES. 
          IT'S CHANGING THE CALL VOLUME, UH, NOT THE HOURS OFF OR IT'S CHANGING THE HOURS OF WORK WHICH IS NOT WORKING 24. 
          UH, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG. 
          JUST SAYING THAT, THAT THAT'S THE OPPOSITE END OF THE DISCUSSION THAT, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY IS FAIR FOR EVERYONE TO HAVE IS IF, IF IF EVERYONE IS SO BUSY, BUSY, HOW CAN WE CHANGE THE BUSY, YOU CHANGE THE VOLUME OR YOU CHANGE THE OTHERS MORE TIME OFF DOESN'T FIT WHAT HAPPENS DURING THE 24 HOURS. 
          SO LESS THAN 24 HOURS, WHICH WOULD BE WIDELY UNPOPULAR, BUT 
          [01:50:01]
IT ALLOWS FOR THE MOST OPTIMIZATION AND PROBABLY WOULD BE THE ONLY FINANCIAL WAY YOU COULD AFFORD IT. 
          OR DO YOU ADD MORE RESOURCES? WOULD YOUR THREE AMBULANCES MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE? THREE TIMES EIGHT IS 24. 
          SO TWO POINT, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU AFFORD 2.4 MILLION INSTEAD OF 13? AND THAT WOULD FAST SPEED IMPACT, YOU KNOW, OPERATIONS. 
          SO AGAIN, OPPORTUNITIES. 
          AND AGAIN THAT JUST, THAT'S JUST A DIFFERENT PART, THEIR PERSPECTIVE FOR CONSIDERATION. 
          THAT'S ALL. 
          UH, UH, DO WE, HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD WE HAVE TO HIRE TO GO TO 12 HOUR SHIFTS? ROUGHLY? A 25% INCREASE? 25%. 
          SO IT TAKES ROUGHLY, I'M JUST SAYING LIKE YOU, YOU CAN HAVE A FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE BEST OF THE BEST AND JUST HIRE ONE MORE SHIP IN ORDER TO COMPETE WITH THESE OTHER CITIES. 
          'CAUSE IT'S GONNA HAPPEN INEVITABLY. 
          UM, 'CAUSE 4, 8, 9, 6 WAS THE TREND JUST BECAUSE NOBODY EVER, PLANO IS NOT GONNA BE THE ONLY CITY THAT CAN DO THIS. 
          I MEAN IT'S JUST A MATTER OF US FIGURING OUT HOW, AND LIKE I SAID, WE, WE ARE, WE ARE GROSSLY UNDERSTAFFED STILL TO THIS DAY, EVEN WITH 55 MEDICS. 
          YOUR QUESTION KIND OF ABOUT LIKE WE GO THROUGH SENIORITY TO GET OFF THE AMBULANCE, IT KIND OF WORKS THAT WAY, BUT WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO DO THAT. 
          I MEAN, LIKE MY ENGINE DRIVER GOT AN ENGINE WHEN, WHEN I WAS BORN PRETTY MUCH SAME YEAR. 
          SO HE HASN'T RUN A NAME ON THE . 
          SO HE CAN'T RIDE AN AMBULANCE FOR ME 'CAUSE HE HASN'T DONE IT IN 28 YEARS. 
          YOU KNOW. 
          UM, SO YOU JUST, IT'S KIND OF A CULTURAL THING KIND OF TO YOUR POINT THAT IS GETTING BETTER AS WE'RE GETTING NEWER AMBULANCE OR ENGINE DRIVERS. 
          BUT UM, I MEAN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF COMPARATIVE WITH LIKE FIREFIGHTER PER CITIZEN, THE COST OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT PER CAPITA, I MEAN WE ARE AT THE BOTTOM. 
          I MEAN EVEN ON FIREFIGHTERS PER CITIZEN, WE ARE, ARLINGTON AND FORT WORTH ARE BELOW US. 
          THE ONLY OTHER TWO ARE FRISCO AND MCKINNEY. 
          AND I WOULD IMAGINE IT'S BECAUSE THOSE CITIES ARE VERY UNDERGROWN SO FAR. 
          THEY'RE GONNA GROW LIKE CRAZY. 
          SO AWESOME IS 13 STATIONS, I'M SORRY PLATO, ALLSTAR HAS 13 THEN THEY'RE TURNING 14. 
          YEAH. 
          YES MA'AM. 
          SO I MEAN THEY THEY MUST MAKE A LOT OF MONEY 'CAUSE THEY'RE DOING A TON. 
          THEY DO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY. 
          YEAH. 
          THEIR PER CAPITA EARNINGS ARE SO MUCH HIGHER THAN OURS. 
          LIKE YOUR, OUR AVERAGE HOME VALUE IS LIKE TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY NINE, TWO SIXTY SIX, TWO SIXTY SIX. 
          THEIR AVERAGE HOME VALUE IS LIKE OVER $500,000, ISN'T IT? YEAH, I MEAN THE, THE, WE'RE GONNA HEAR ABOUT GARLIC CHALLENGE APPLES. 
          THE DELTA IS 90 MILLION A YEAR IN GENERAL FUNDS. 
          SO IF WE WERE JUST AVERAGE PER CAPITA, UM, PROPERTY TAX, SALES TAX COMPARED TO THE OTHER CITIES, THE METROPLEX, WE'D HAVE ANOTHER 90 MILLION A YEAR, UH, TO GO TO WHATEVER. 
          AND, AND I BELIEVE THAT IT'S CORRECT THAT, UH, IF YOU TOOK ALL OF OUR PROPERTY TAX AND SALES TAX THAT WE BRING IN CURRENTLY THAT DOESN'T PAY FOR POLICE AND FIRE RIGHT NOW. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT DOESN'T COVER PUBLIC SAFETY. 
          YEAH, WELL EVEN LIKE I AGREE WITH YOU, IT'S APPLE TO ORANGES. 
          BUT IF FOR PLANO TO GO 24 72, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE FIVE HUNDRED AND TEN FIVE SLIDERS. 
          SO THEY'RE GOING FROM 400 TO 510. 
          WE WOULD BE GOING FROM 2 92, WHICH WE HAVE CURRENTLY TO 3 77. 
          SO WE'RE STILL WELL OVER A HUNDRED AND SOMETHING FIREFIGHTERS LESS THAN THEM. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT WHEN HAS PLANO NOT EVER BEEN A PROBLEM FOR US? THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          LIKE YOU'RE YOU'RE SAYING THAT IF THEY MOVE TO THIS SHIFT THEN, THEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM. 
          WE'VE HAD A PROBLEM THIS ENTIRE TIME. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S NOT JUST STARTING. 
          THIS HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOREVER AND NOT JUST PLANO WITH OTHER CITIES AS WELL. 
          AND IT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THE SHIFTS THAT, THAT WE'RE WORKING LIKE THAT THE SHIFT CHANGE IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE, UH, OUR FIREFIGHTERS AND EMT OR FIREFIGHTERS AND PARAMEDICS GOING TO ANOTHER CITY BECAUSE THEY FINALLY HAVE WHAT PLANO OR SOMEONE ELSE IS ASKING FOR. 
          THAT'S WHY THEIR NUMBERS ARE HIGHER. 
          WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHAT, WHAT, WHAT THEIR, WHAT DID YOU CALL THAT? THE, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT YOU HAD AND YOU ASKED THEM A QUESTION. 
          HOW MANY OH, ON THE, ON THE INTEREST EXAM? YES. 
          YES MA'AM. 
          EVERYBODY LOOKS AT THAT. 
          IT'S POSTED ON FACEBOOK. 
          I MEAN THAT'S WHAT RIGHT, BUT THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. 
          YOU WERE COMPARING THEM GETTING ALL OF THESE SEASONED, UH, SEASONED FIREFIGHTERS AND PARAMEDICS AT THE, WE ARE NOT GETTING AT OUR, AT OUR ENTRANCE EXAMS. AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE CITY. 
          IT IS. 
          THAT'S NOT THEY DIDN'T ANY BEFORE. 
          YEAH, NO, THAT'S A, THAT'S AN ABRUPT CHANGE. 
          SO THE LIST OF 58 CAME BEFORE THE ANNOUNCEMENT, BUT THEY'VE ALWAYS HAD MORE, EVEN IF NO MAY HAVE NOT BECAUSE THEY ONLY HEART. 
          YEAH. 
          SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE CERTIFIED EXAMS THAT THEY WOULD DO. 
          YOU HAD TO BE DUAL CERTIFIED MM-HMM . 
          AND THEY WOULD GET 30 TO 50 PEOPLE FOR THEIR EXAM. 
          WE HAVE THE COMFORT OF DOING COVID HIRES, WHICH ALLOWS US TO HAVE 500 SHOW. 
          SO WE, WE, WE HAVE A LARGER CANDIDATE POOL THAT THEY HAVE EVER DRAFT ON, BUT THAT, THAT WAS AN ORANGES, 
          [01:55:01]
IT, IT'S OUR SETUP WAS ORANGE. 
          THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT CERTIFIED ONLY REASONS WE DON'T DO THAT. 
          HOW LONG DOES THE SAME THING THEY ONLY HIRE CERTIFIED FOR THEIR POLICE? I'LL SAY THEY REQUIRE A DEGREE. 
          THEY REQUIRE THEIR POLICE OFFICERS TO HAVE A DEGREE. 
          SO WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR EXAMS, THEY ONLY HAVE 20 PEOPLE SHOW UP. 
          I MEAN IF EVEN THAT, SO YEAH, THE REQUIREMENTS ARE HIGHER, RIGHT? MM-HMM . 
          BUT WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT WHETHER THEY'RE, THEIR SHIFTS ARE 24, 72, 48, 9, IT DOESN'T MATTER. 
          IT'S PLAIN, IT'S, THEY'RE ALWAYS GOING TO GET PEOPLE THAT HAVE WORKED HERE AND HAVE EARNED THEIR, THEY'VE EARNED THEIR CHOPS, THEY'VE GONE TO PARAMEDIC SCHOOL, WE PAID FOR THAT. 
          THEY'VE, THEY'VE WORKED ON AN ENGINE, WE'VE PAID FOR THAT, AND THEN THEY HAVE WHAT PLANO WANTS. 
          SO THEY GO THERE. 
          THIS IS GONNA BE THE BIGGEST DEAL THAT EVER HAPPENS THAT THAT SCHEDULE. 
          YOU, I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LEAVE 100% AND IT'S GONNA BE A LOT. 
          WE'VE LOST FIVE, I MEAN SINCE EVEN BEFORE I GOT HERE. 
          I MEAN, AND YEAH, IT YOU THAT'S GONNA BE A HUGE DEAL. 
          AND THEN STILL LIKE THE MONEY, THE SCHEDULE IS WORTH MORE THAN THE, THAT, I MEAN THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN HIGHEST PAID. 
          THAT'S WHY THEY GET THAT. 
          THAT'S REALLY THE ONE PRO TO THEM IS THEY HAVE HIGHEST PAY. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. 
          I DON'T THINK WE'RE ASKING FOR THAT AT ALL, UM, FROM ANYBODY THAT I'VE TALKED TO. 
          BUT THE EXTRA DAY OFF THE, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY HAVING A BETTER RETIREMENT, MORE TIME AT HOME WITH YOUR FAMILY, THIS GENERATION IS JUST PRIORITIZING OTHER THINGS. 
          YOU KNOW, THE FAMILY LIFE IS A LOT BIGGER DEAL. 
          UM, IT'S THERE, THERE, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE HOLDING OUT FOR DEAR LIFE THAT WE DO SOMETHING IN THAT DIRECTION AND IF WE DON'T, IT'S INEVITABLE THEN IT WILL HAPPEN. 
          SO I'M WONDERING IF WE MOVE TO ANOTHER SCHEDULE OF 24, WHATEVER SCHEDULE AND WE HIRE ENOUGH PEOPLE IN ORDER TO FILL THAT, THAT FOURTH SHIFT, ARE YOU STILL GOING TO BE UNDERSTAFFED IF YOU'RE UNDERSTAFFED? THAT'S VERY COMPLICATED QUESTION. 
          I MEAN, IF, IF THE REASON THAT YOU HAVE TO WORK 240 HOURS OF OVERTIME EVERY DAY IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE, HOW DOES ADDING JUST THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE TO COVER ANOTHER SHIFT MAKE IT TO WHERE YOU'RE STILL NOT WORKING THAT MUCH OVERTIME? PROPOSAL? A GREAT QUESTION AND I APPRECIATE THAT QUESTION. 
          UM, I WOULD ARGUE GIVEN MORE TIME TO RECOVER OR REDUCE THE SICK, AND THEN I'M GOING TO VET THAT OUT AND SHORE THAT UP THROUGH AGENCIES  TOO. 
          SO HOW MUCH OF THE OVERTIME, I GUESS I NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH OF OVERTIME IS, IS CIVIC? HOW MUCH IS JUST PEOPLE WORKING LONGER? HOW MUCH IS IT THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY TO FILL THIS SHIFT? WE NEED YOU TO WORK. 
          SO I, I NEED, I NEED THOSE NUMBERS. 
          THAT'S THE MANDATORY OVERTIME IS, IS CAN'T GO HOME TODAY NUMBER. 
          UH, WE CAN PROVIDE YOU WITH HOW MANY PEOPLE CALLING SICK. 
          UM, AND I DON'T PULL MY LATEST NUMBERS BECAUSE I WON'T REMEMBER 'EM CORRECTLY. 
          THAT'S OKAY. 
          I WOULD RATHER YOU LOOK AND AND BRING IT BACK, GIVE YOU ACCURATE DATA OUT OF WORK, PAY, GET IT UP. 
          UH, THEY CAN, THEY CAN SHOW YOU THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. 
          . 
          UH, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS AND WE'VE LOST PEOPLE PLAYING ON, UH, ONE OF THEM WANTED TO COME BACK FINANCIALLY. 
          THE THING THAT GARMEN HAS GOING FOR IS CULTURE AND THEN FINALLY RETIRE. 
          WE SAVE THAT BECAUSE CULTURE DOESN'T FEED THE KIDS. 
          CULTURE DOESN'T GET AN EXTRA DAY OFF. 
          REDUCE YOUR CANCER EXPOSURES AND INCREASE YOUR RECOVERY TIMES. 
          ALL OF THESE THINGS, UH, CULTURE WON'T DO THAT. 
          UH, OUR TENURED FIREFIGHTERS WITH GREATER THAN 35 YEAR SERVICE CAN'T GO ANYWHERE. 
          CIVIL SERVICES SYSTEM FOR ABOUT, THEY'RE GONNA BE HERE FOR A WHILE. 
          UH, I AGREE WITH TYLER, UM, WHEN VISITING WITH THEIR YOUNGER FIREFIGHTERS THAT THEY WANT TO BE LOYAL AND COMMITTED TO GARLAND. 
          AND THERE'S ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT'S IN MY POSITION RIGHT NOW THAT GREW UP IN THE GARLAND FIRE DEPARTMENT. 
          LITERALLY, HIS, HIS DADDY WORKS THERE. 
          IT'S NOT THIS ONE , BUT, BUT HE GREW UP IN THIS DEPARTMENT AND HE ASKED THAT QUESTION. 
          HE SAID, WHY SHOULD I BE LOYAL TO GARLAND? BUT I CAN GO THERE AND GET A 42 HOUR WORK WEEK IN AND, AND A LIAR ONE TIME BECAUSE YOUR DADDY WORKS HERE, HE GONNA WHOOP YOUR, BUT IF HE DON'T SEE 
          [02:00:01]
HIS DONE ON, YOU KNOW, UM, BUT I'M WORRIED ABOUT PRESERVING THE CULTURE, WORRIED ABOUT PRESERVING THE LOYALTY TO THE COMMUNITY. 
          I'M WORRIED ABOUT CONTINUING TO EXPECT SERVICE LEVELS UP HERE, WE FUNDING . 
          AND, AND THAT'S WHAT TYLER WAS GETTING TO EARLIER. 
          WHEN YOU LOOK AT STAFFING, CAPTA, BRISCO AND MCKINNEY ARE IN THE GROUP THAT ARE BELOW US. 
          BRISCO AND MCKINNEY CAN'T KEEP UP BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BUILD NEW FIRE STATIONS TO KEEP UP WITH THEIR GROWTH. 
          RIGHT? UH, SO YOU TAKE THE, THE BUILT OUT ENVIRONMENTS, THE ESTABLISHED COMMUNITIES WE'RE, WE'RE THE BOTTOM EXCEPT FOR ARLINGTON AND IT WAS FORT WORTH, BUT FORT WORTH USED ALL MEDSTAR PARAMEDIC. 
          SO THEIR NUMBERS HAVE GONE UP. 
          I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR CURRENT NUMBER IS. 
          FIRE CHIEFS OUT OF OFFICE. 
          UM, SO THAT LEAVES OUR, AND THAT'S A SYSTEM THAT, UH, DOES NOT PROVIDE THE TRANSPORT SERVICES TO THE COMMUNITY. 
          SO THAT'S OUR FUNDING LEVEL, THAT'S OUR STAFFING LEVEL. 
          PROVIDING SERVICES THAT COMPETE, BEAT ALL THOSE OTHER CITIES EXCEPT WE'RE MUCH LOWER COST. 
          AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE FRUSTRATION COMES FROM AND ALL IS WE'RE COMMITTED. 
          HUNDRED PERCENT. 
          THESE GUYS ARE SITTING AROUND ME. 
          UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE HUNDRED PERCENT, MERRILL WAS A HUNDRED PERCENT WHEN HE WAS HERE. 
          THE ABSOLUTE BEST SERVICE THIS COMMUNITY DESERVES HIT. 
          AND THEY DO IT REALLY, REALLY WELL EVERY DAY. 
          EVEN ON SUNDAYS,  TO ME, THEY STILL TAKE TO THE HOSPITAL. 
          UM, I HAD NO WAY QUESTION OUR, OUR, OUR PEOPLE'S INTEGRITY NOR THEIR LOYALTY TO US. 
          AND I, SO THAT, THAT PART FOR ME, LIKE I, I HAVE NO PROBLEM SAYING, I DO NOT WANT TO MAKE ANYTHING HARDER FOR OUR STAFF IN ANY WAY. 
          SO, AND, AND I WOULD NEVER SAY, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY OFFERS YOU A BETTER JOB BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD YOU. 
          AND YOU, YOU, YOU TESTED OUT, YOU, YOU CLIMBED THE LADDER, SO TO SPEAK. 
          I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS. 
          SOMETIMES IT, IT JUST IS, YOU GO TO SCHOOL AND YOU GET A DEGREE, YOU SHOULD, YOU EXPECT TO MAKE MORE MONEY. 
          YOU WORK IN A FIRE DEPARTMENT REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE CULTURE IS. 
          SOMEBODY OFFERS YOU A JOB, IT'S GONNA PAY YOU MORE AND GIVE YOU MORE TIME WITH YOUR FAMILY. 
          YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE, SOME OF THEM WILL, AND SOME OF THEM WON'T. 
          SOME OF THEM LIVE IN GARLAND AND SOME OF THEM DON'T. 
          AND MAYBE IT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF FACTORS. 
          AND I THINK MY MAIN POINT IS IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT A CITY LIKE PLANO THAT HAS SO MUCH MORE MONEY, EVEN IF WE CHANGE OUR SHIFTS, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP FIREFIGHTERS FROM GOING THERE. 
          I THINK IT WILL PLAY A VERY SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN IT. 
          THAT'S, THAT IS BEEN THE ENTIRE TALKING POINT OF MY SIX CAREER IS SHIFT SCHEDULE. 
          THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT. 
          IT'S NOT WRITING FOR PEOPLE, IT'S NOT REALLY PAID, IT'S NOT DOUBLE COMPANIES. 
          IT IS SHIFT SCHEDULE. 
          THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT WE TALK ABOUT. 
          BASICALLY WHENEVER THAT'S INTERESTING. 
          JOB, JOB POSTINGS COME UP. 
          IF YOU LOOK AT A JOB, GO LOOK AT MCKINNEY'S JOB POSTING. 
          THE BIGGEST TEXT ON THEIR JOB POSTING IS 48 9 6. 
          BECAUSE THEIR BIGGEST RECRUITING TOOL, IT'S JUST, MAN THE GAME IN THE CURRENT FIRE SERVICE . 
          THIS WILL DEFINITELY BE AN INTERESTING, UM, YOU KNOW, AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS. 
          'CAUSE IT'S INTERESTING TO ME THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THEY KNOW FIREFIGHTING SCHEDULE'S ALWAYS BEEN 24, 48 SINCE USED TO BE YEAH. 
          WELL, AND THAT, BUT WHEN YOU HIRE, WHEN YOU HIRED ON, THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS. 
          AND YOU KNEW WHAT YOUR SCHEDULE WAS GONNA, EVERYBODY WAS THOUGH. 
          RIGHT. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? BUT IF THERE ARE CHANGES, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR. 
          SO IT'S GONNA BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT WE CAN ACHIEVE. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO PREVENT THAT, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S, IT'S JUST FUNNY IN MY, IN MY MIND IT'S LIKE, WELL, YOU NEED THE SCHEDULE WHEN YOU WANTED TO BECOME A FIREFIGHTER, YOU KNOW, BUT NOW YOU SEE, OH, THE GRASS MAY BE GREENER OVER THERE. 
          OKAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN ACHIEVE THAT, AWESOME. 
          IF WE CAN'T, THEN IT REALLY CAN'T STOP YOU FROM LEAVING, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF WHAT A CULTURE DOES. 
          I THINK IT'S JUST INEVITABLE. 
          'CAUSE LIKE WHEN CHIEF LEE SAID, WE WENT TO THIS SCHEDULE IN 1965, I'M SURE OUR CALL VOLUME WAS THREE TO FIVE 
          [02:05:01]
CALLS A SHIFT THAT WERE PROBABLY ALL FIRES. 
          YOU KNOW, THAT WASN'T EVEN EMS BACK THEN UNTIL 19 72, 3. 
          UM, AND WE DECIDED, YEAH, SO WE DECIDED THAT THAT TWO DAYS OFF WAS WHAT WE NEEDED TO MOVE TO FROM THREE TO FIVE CALLS A DAY. 
          RIGHT NOW WE'RE RUNNING 10 OR 16. 
          MS DOESN'T SOLVE. 
          SO, UM, INEVITABLY THAT'S JUST THE WAY THAT THE TREND IS GONNA HAVE TO CHANGE IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW, THE MENTAL HEALTH BENEFITS, SLEEP SCHEDULE, I MEAN, EVERYTHING THAT, THAT WE KIND OF DO AS THEY LOOK AT IT, IS ALL OUT OF WHACK. 
          WHETHER IT'S IAN RHYTHMS OR, UH, LIKE HORMONAL DUMPS OR ADRENALINE, YOU KNOW, LIKE OUR BODIES JUST TAKE A TOLL THAT WE GET USED TO IT. 
          YOU KNOW, NO DOUBT. 
          I MEAN, WE LEARN HOW TO FUNCTION. 
          I MEAN, A HUNDRED PERCENT OF OUR OWN PARAMEDICS CAN ALMOST RUN A CALL INITIALLY, YOU KNOW, IT IS JUST SECOND NATURE. 
          BUT, UM, IT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE GONNA ARE GONNA TREND. 
          AND I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE THE BIGGEST CONCERN IS A DROP IN LEVEL OF SERVICE. 
          AND MY MIRROR, YOU KNOW, MY DREAM WAS ALWAYS TO COME HERE AND BE A CAPTAIN ONE DAY, IS THAT THE GUYS THAT, THAT I GET, IF WE DON'T MAKE A MOVE, PROBABLY AREN'T GONNA BE AS GOOD AS THEY ONCE WOULD'VE BEEN IF WE'D HAVE MADE A CHANGE BACK IN 2025. 
          UM, SO I THINK A DROP IN SERVICE IS KIND OF INEVITABLE BECAUSE WE'RE JUST GONNA HAVE TO KEEP REFILLING THOSE POSITIONS AND THE CANDIDATES ARE JUST GONNA DROP AS WE GO DOWN BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE A HARD ENOUGH TIME RECRUITING. 
          UM, WE GO THROUGH A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF APPLICANTS JUST TO GET LIKE WHAT WE'VE TESTED FOR WHAT WE GO 125 SPOTS UP DOWN THE LIST FOR SIX PEOPLE. 
          THAT'S A TON OF PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH TO GET SIX CANDIDATES, . 
          SO I MEAN, BACK IN PROBABLY 2010, I'M SURE THAT WAS A QUARTER, TOOK A QUARTER OF THE PEOPLE TO GET SIX PEOPLE BACK THEN. 
          UM, SO IT'S JUST CHANGING. 
          AND THEN THERE'S JUST DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES OF HOW YOU LOOK AT A PROBABLY RECRUITING, LIKE, YEAH, WE MIGHT NOT HAVE A HUNDRED LESS PEOPLE ON THE TEST OR LOSING HUNDREDS OF OTHER TESTING, BUT IF WE HAVE TO GO DOWN A LIST AND GET FARTHER TO GET THE SAME AMOUNT OF PEOPLE, THAT IS A DROP OF RECRUITING. 
          SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT. 
          THERE'S A PODCAST CALLED BEHIND THE SHIELD PODCAST. 
          THERE'S ONE WITH A PLAN ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER. 
          VERY GOOD. 
          LISTEN, IF I MAY, UH, JUST TWO THINGS REALLY QUICK. 
          LIKE WHAT I'M HEARING OUT OF ALL THIS IS, IS THE ONE, IT SOUNDS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ASK AND PROBABLY E OR SOMETHING DEEP DIVE INTO LIKE WHAT, WHAT IS THE DATA AND, AND YOU KNOW, YOUR DATA IS, IS ONE END OF THE, THE SPECTRUM FINANCIALLY, BUT WHAT IS THE OPERATION DATA THAT EXISTS? I, I'M PREPARED TO PROVIDE THAT IF IT HAS BENEFIT, BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT I'M HEARING FROM SOME PEOPLE IS, IS THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED WITH THIS GROUP IS WHAT IS THE DATA? AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU, YOU TOSSED UP THE NUMBER OF, YOU KNOW, WE'RE RUNNING 10, 14, 16 CALLS A DAY 50% OF THE TIME. 
          UH, SO THE HIGHEST VOLUME UNIT RUNS 8.8 CALLS PER DAY. 
          THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT RUNS DOUBLES OR HIGHER IS ONLY 50% AT THAT TIME. 
          SO THAT MEANS THAT SOME DAYS IT RUN 14, BUT SOME DAYS ARE RUN 7, 3, 6, YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S, THERE'S VARIANCE IN THERE. 
          UM, SO IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, BREAKING DOWN NUMBERS AND CONTEXT I THINK IS FAIR. 
          ONE OF THE THINGS, YOU KNOW, LATER ON, AGAIN, PART OF THE BIG DISCUSSION'S GONNA BE ON THE SHIFT SCHEDULE SOMETHING FOR THAN TO CONSIDER IS THAT IF, LET'S SAY STARTING PAY FOR A FIREFIGHTER PARAMEDIC OR A FIREFIGHTER IS $70 NIGHT A YEAR, IF THAT'S YOUR STARTING PAY, AND THAT'S ON A 56 HOUR WORK WEEK OR 53 PLUS THREE OVERTIME. 
          SO IF IT'S 50, IF IT'S $70,000 FOR 53 HOURS OR 56 HOURS A WEEK, AND YOU GO TO 24 72, WHAT'S THE STARTING PAY GOING TO BE FOR FOUR, TWO HOURS A WEEK? IS IT STILL GONNA BE 70, 70,000 OR DO YOU PROPORTIONATE DECREASE THAT UNTIL IT'S 55,000? SO, YOU KNOW, JUST THROWING UP THAT FOR FUTURE DISCUSSION. 
          PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THAT DEBATE RIGHT NOW, BUT THAT'S A FAIR, THAT'S JUST MATH AND PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT'S TRICKLING THROUGH YOUR MIND, JUST MATH. 
          SO FAIR DISCUSSION FOR LATER ON. 
          AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT I'M HERE FOR IS JUST TO GET A DISCUSSION. 
          MAYBE THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S BROKEN, PROBABLY IS NOTHING THAT'S BROKEN. 
          I DON'T DISCOUNT THAT FOR ONE BIT. 
          UM, AND THAT MIGHT JUST BE WHAT HAS TO BE DONE. 
          SO I'M SORRY. 
          SO AS SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS ACADEMIC DISCUSSION FOR A LONG TIME EVERY YEAR, UM, PLANO HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE. 
          PLANO WAS THERE WHEN HE WAS HERE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP THIS, YOU WHAT, WHAT, AND AND EVERY STUDY WE DO, WHETHER IT'S PARK BENCHES OR DUMPSTERS OR WHATEVER IT IS, WE DO OUR COMPARISON STUDIES. 
          UM, AND WE'LL, AND, AND YOU'LL SEE ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENCES AND SIMILARITY. 
          YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S LIKE ANY STUDY YOU DO, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE HAVE, AND ALWAYS HAVE HAD AND ALWAYS WILL NEED TO DO 
          [02:10:01]
WHAT IS RIGHT FOR , WHAT PLANO DOES OR PALM SPRINGS OR WHOEVER THE HELL IT IS. 
          YOU HAVE TO, IT, YOU, YOU SAY, YOU CAN SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT AN APPLES TO APPLE. 
          IT, IT HAS TO BE AN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE CITY OPERATES AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE CONTEXT THAT WE ARE IN. 
          AND, AND SO WITH THAT ASSUMPTION, UM, YOU KNOW THAT THERE'S ALWAYS A NEW TREND AND THERE'S, YOU KNOW, SCIENCE IS ALWAYS OUT THERE AND, AND THREE YEARS AGO, 48 96 WAS GONNA SAVE THE FIRE SERVICE, OKAY? AND TODAY IT'S NOT. 
          AND THAT WAS ONLY THREE YEARS AGO. 
          I CAN PROMISE YOU HAVING, HAVING SERVED IN GOVERNMENT LONG AS I HAVE, I GUARANTEE YOU THERE'S A SURVEY THERE, THERE'S A SYSTEM, THERE IS A STUDY GOING RIGHT NOW THAT WITHIN TWO TO THREE YEARS, WE'LL SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, 24, 24 48 WAS REALLY BETTER, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE 24 72 DOES THIS AND 48 96 DOES THIS. 
          AND, AND OF COURSE EVERYBODY'S GONNA HATE 12 HOUR SHIFTS. 
          UM, AND, BUT YOU KNOW, THE, THERE'S ALWAYS A STUDY THAT'S GOING TO DISPUTE THE PREVIOUS DECISION AND, AND I HAVE A FEELING THAT THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE ULTIMATE WITH 24 7 2, AGAIN, HAVING HIM WATCHED IT PLAY OUT WITH 48, 9 6. 
          THAT BEING SAID, AND, AND YOU KNOW, MY POINT IS WE HAVE TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE CITY OF GARLAND. 
          PLANO HAS ALWAYS BEEN OUT THERE AND WHATEVER CITY, YOU KNOW, HELL I REMEMBER USED TO, YOU KNOW, RICHARDSON WAS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM FOR MANY YEARS. 
          I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS SOMEBODY. 
          UM, AND, BUT WE HAVE TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE STUDIO. 
          AND, AND ONE THING THAT REALLY I TAKE ISSUE WITH IS, IS THAT IF WE DON'T, THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A DROP OR A DIMINISHMENT OF THE LEVEL OF SERVICE HERE. 
          I, I'M SORRY, I I DON'T, BECAUSE THAT'S SAYING THAT IS WORKING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT EVERYBODY HERE IS JUST HERE FOR THE MONEY OR THE TIME AND, AND THAT'S, THAT'S NOT CORRECT. 
          UM, IF, IF WE DON'T GO TO 24 72 AND AND THREE OF OUR SISTER CITIES DO AND WE LOSE A SMALL PORTION OF OUR CURRENT MEMBERS, WE ARE GOING TO HIRE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE HERE AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE HERE TO DO THE JOB AND THEY'RE GONNA BE TRAINED BY THESE SAME PEOPLE. 
          AND SO TO SAY THAT OUR SERVICE LEVELS ARE GOING TO DIMINISH IF WE DON'T, UH, I'M SORRY, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE. 
          BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU CAN GO BACK IN TIME AND SAY, IF WE DIDN'T PAY WHAT PLANO DID 15 YEARS AGO, THAT WE WOULD HAVE . 
          PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS, SOME PEOPLE ARE GONNA CHASE JOBS FOR MONEY. 
          SOME ARE GONNA TAKE CHASE 'EM FOR TIME. 
          SOME ARE GONNA CHASE 'EM FOR LOCATION, BUT THAT'S NOT EVERYBODY. 
          UM, AND, AND I WANT NOTHING BUT THE BEST FOR ALL OF OUR FOLKS, DON'T GET ME WRONG. 
          UM, BUT THESE THREE PEOPLE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION THAT'S GOOD FOR 250,000 PEOPLE. 
          AND THAT'S THE, THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO KEEP FOCUSED IS WHAT WE ARE DOING HAS TO WORK FOR THE CITY, NOT JUST THE DEPARTMENT. 
          UM, AND, AND, AND KEEP THAT IN MIND. 
          AND AGAIN, KEEP IN MIND THAT THE DATA, WE'RE THE DATA WE'RE MAKING THIS DECISION ON NOW, A COUPLE YEARS FROM NOW, IT'S GOING TO GET UPENDED BY SOMETHING ELSE. 
          UM, AND SO ANYWAY, I'LL GET WITH MYSELF, FOX, MISS YOU, SCOTT. 
          . 
          WELL, I THINK WE'RE ALWAYS GOOD PEOPLE FOR, FOR MONEY ANYWAY. 
          CARLAND STARTS AT 78,000. 
          ALAN STARTS AT 93,000, YOU KNOW, ALAN AND, AND, AND  OR WHATEVER IT IS. 
          SO PEOPLE ARE GONNA LEAVE, ARE GONNA LEAVE FOR MONEY. 
          AND I, AND I, AND I HAVEN'T MADE THE DECISION EITHER WAY YET, BUT I KNOW PEOPLE ARE GONNA LEAVE. 
          WE HAD A GUY THAT LEFT A COUPLE YEARS GOING TO FRISCO, GOT A $15,000 RAISE. 
          THREE YEARS LATER WE CAME BACK TO GARLAND AND TOOK BAY CUT BECAUSE HE LIKED GARLAND. 
          THERE'S SOME THAT ARE GONNA LEAVE. 
          I MEAN, THEY'RE $15,000 AND THEN GARLAND JUST REQUIRES HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE RIGHT THERE WHEN WE TRAIN PEOPLE AND THEY GET THEIR PARAMEDIC AND THEN THAT'S WHEN THEY LEAVE. 
          I CAN GO WITH THEY, THEY, SOME OF 'EM COME WITH THAT INTENTION. 
          I'M GONNA GET TRAINED IN THE GARDEN, I'M GONNA MAKE MY MONEY AND THEN, YOU KNOW, GO OFF SOMEWHERE ELSE. 
          [02:15:01]
WELL, COMMITTEE, OH, MELISSA. 
          OH, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, UM, MELISSA BRONER, UM, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, UM, I, I SAID THIS LAST MONTH, I'M GONNA SAY IT AGAIN. 
          I, WE'RE GONNA DO THE BEST WE CAN FOR OUR RECOMMENDATION, BUT I THINK NO MATTER HOW WE GO, SOMEBODY'S GONNA BE UPSET AND SOMEBODY'S GONNA LEAVE, UM, NO MATTER WHICH WAY WE GO. 
          UM, BUT KIND OF THAT COULD WHAT EVERYBODY SAID, I SEE THE COMPASSION AND THE CARE IN OUR FIREFIGHTERS WHEN THEY DO THEIR JOB EVERY DAY. 
          THEY MAY BE STRESSED, THEY MAY NOT MAKE A LOT OR WHATEVER THEY MAY NEED THIS OR THAT, BUT THEIR LEVEL OF THE CARE THEY GIVE NEVER CHANGES. 
          AND I JUST, I'M KINDA LIKE, IT'S NOT BROKE. 
          FIX IT. 
          KEVIN PAGE FOR CONTEXT. 
          I DIDN'T GROW UP IN THE CITY, SO I'M A LITTLE AWARE OF THE CHALLENGES WE'RE UNDER AND UH, I DON'T BELIEVE THE MAJORITY OF OUR FIREFIGHTERS EXPECT THE TOP LEVEL, PLAIN OF WHAT PLANO OFFERS EVERY DAY. 
          BUT I WILL SAY THAT OUR CITIZENS GET PLAIN LEVEL FIRE SERVICE EVERY DAY FOR WHAT THEY'RE PAYING FOR US. 
          UH, JUST A LITTLE CONTEXT, I GOT HIRED IN 1997. 
          I WENT ON THE STREETS IN 1998. 
          WE MADE ABOUT 17,000 CALLS THAT YEAR. 
          YOU KNOW HOW MANY FIREFIGHTERS WE HAD? WE HAD 56 PER SHIFT, ROUGHLY. 
          WE NOW HAVE 62, WE MAKE 30,000. 
          SO THERE'S A GAP THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS SOMEWHERE SOMEHOW. 
          GONNA GO PLAN FIRE DEPARTMENT RIGHT NOW. 
          WELL COMMITTEE IT IS, UH, ALMOST EIGHT 40 NOW. 
          SO THERE ANY LAST, UH, QUESTIONS WE HAVE, IF WE HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS? IS THERE EMAILS SET UP? I TRIED TO SEND EMAIL, SEND THAT TO TEAMS QUESTIONS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WE WANT FOR NEXT MONTH OR SOMETHING THAT THEY MAY BE ABLE TO REFER. 
          YOU CAN ACTUALLY, WE ARE HAVING TROUBLE ACCESS ROUTINE, WHICH IS WHAT I'M SENSING ON. 
          CONNECT WITH OUR IT TEAM DIRECTLY TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ACCESS, BUT YOU DO HAVE PAPER COPIES OF EVERYTHING THAT'S  IN THE  IN YOUR FILE. 
          WELL, THANK YOU LETICIA AND UH, THANK YOU COMMITTEE FOR BEING HERE AND UH, WE'RE GONNA GET TOGETHER NOVEMBER 12TH, OUR NEXT MEETING NUMBER, ALSO TODAY'S SCHOLAR'S BIRTHDAY. 
          UH, SUNDAY WAS MELISSA'S BIRTHDAY, SO PLEASE EAT SOME CAKE THAT WOULD ADJOURN. 
          COULDN'T THINK OF A BETTER WAY.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.