* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME [00:00:01] TO THE OCTOBER 23RD COMMUNITY SERVICE COMMITTEE MEETING. UM, I AM YOUR CHAIR, CARISSA DUTTON. WE'VE GOT CHRIS BEARD AND JEFF BASS IN ATTENDANCE WITH US AS LONG AS SOME CITY, CITY STAFF. UM, THIS MORNING OUR FIRST TOPIC IS GONNA BE APPROVAL OF MINUTES. UM, COMMITTEE MEMBERS, DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK OVER THOSE MINUTES? MOTION TO APPROVE. I HAVE A CORRECTION. OKAY. UNDER ITEM THREE, A SECOND PARAGRAPH, THE FIRST OPERATOR DESCRIBED DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS WITH PARTICULAR CONCERN TO BE OVERFLOWED TIRE BINS AND STOLEN TIRES. OH, SHOULD BE DUMPED TIRES. DUMPED TIRES. PERFECT. OH YEAH. GOOD CUTS. SO I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE AS AMENDED. PERFECT. UM, JEFF, YOU GOOD WITH THAT? I, UM, I APPROVE THE CHANGE. . PERFECT. ITEM ONE A IS APPROVED WITH AMENDED, UM, DUMPED INSTEAD OF STOLEN. IT'D BE NICE IF PEOPLE WOULD STEAL TIRES, HUH? I MEAN, USED TIRES NOT, NOT NEW TIRES. . OKAY. AND, UH, ITEM NUMBER TWO IS PUBLIC COMMENTS. AND DO WE HAVE ANYONE HERE FOR COMMENTS? NO, IT IS EMPTY. AS USUAL, WE DO INVITE YOU TO COME OUT AND PARTICIPATE IN OUR MEETINGS SO THAT YOU CAN BE MORE AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR CITY. AND I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REMIND EVERYONE THAT OWED OPEN EARLY VOTING. LORD JESUS, EARLY VOTING IS UNDERWAY, SO WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO GO OUT AND EARLY VOTE. THANK YOU, MR. BASS. I'M GONNA GO DO IT AFTERWARDS. UM, AND ALSO, I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE EVERYONE OVER TO THE NINTH STREET BOXING GYM. IF YOU'VE GOT SOME TIME TODAY AT LUNCH, THEY ARE DOING A DRIVE FOR THE COMMUNITY. SO YOU CAN DO A QUICK FREE TEST DRIVE OF A FORD VEHICLE OVER AT THE BOXING GYM. AND THE BOXING GYM WILL GET $30 PER TEST DRIVE, AND $10 WILL GO TO GOOD SAMARITAN FOOD PANTRY. SO, EASY WAY TO HELP OUR NEIGHBORS. SO, ITEM THREE, UM, INDIVIDUAL FOR, YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA GET THIS RIGHT TODAY AT SOME POINT, ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CAN CONSIDERATION. ITEM THREE A IS ADOPT A STREET PROGRAM. WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA MOVE THAT TO OUR NOVEMBER MEETING. UM, WE'VE, UM, ADDED A COUPLE OF, OR ADDED A PORTION TO OUR SCOPING FOR THAT ONE. SO WE'LL, WE'LL MOVE THAT TO NOVEMBER. GIVE STAFF SOME TIME TO GIVE US RECOMMENDATIONS ACCORDINGLY. ITEM THREE B IS NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY MATCHING GRANT GUIDELINES. AND THIS IS GONNA BE A SCOPING DISCUSSION. UM, I THINK WE'VE GOT IT LISTED AS SCOPING, BUT I THINK IT'S MORE OF AN EDUCATIONAL, UM, RUNDOWN OF ALL OF THE, UM, REQUIREMENTS FOR THOSE MATCHING GRANTS. AND YOU LADIES CAN TAKE IT AWAY. WE'VE GOT LAURA AND UH, BECKY HERE WITH US FROM NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY THAT ARE GONNA EDUCATE US THIS MORNING. PERFECT. HI. GOOD MORNING. CAN, CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME? MIGHT WANNA PULL IT A LITTLE CLOSER. A LITTLE BIT. IS THAT BETTER? MAYBE. HOPEFULLY. OKAY. GOOD MORNING COMMITTEE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US. UM, I'M LAURA DE LAVEGA, SENIOR PLANNER WITH NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY. UM, I'M HERE WITH MY SUPERVISOR, MISS BECKY KING, AND WE ARE JUST KIND OF GIVE YOU A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY MATCHING GRANT AS FAR AS LIKE THE GUIDELINES ARE CONCERNED. UM, SO JUST A LITTLE TIMELINE. UM, NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY MATCHING GRANT PROGRAM WAS CREATED, UM, WITH THE 2004 BOND ELECTION, OR AS A RESULT OF, UH, FUNDING BEING ALLOCATED FOR THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS. UM, SO THIS INITIATED ITS CREATION. UM, IN 2008, THE GUIDELINES WERE REVISED, UM, TURN THEM OFF, DOING SOME DIGGING. COULDN'T REALLY FIND THOSE ORIGINAL 2004 GUIDELINES. UM, SO WE COULDN'T SEE EXACTLY WHAT THE CHANGES WERE BETWEEN 2004 TO 2008, UM, BUT IN, UH, THE NEXT SUBSTANTIAL GUIDELINE CHANGE WAS IN 2015. UM, AND THIS WAS JUST A SIMPLY CHANGE TO PROCESS AND A FEW GUIDELINE CHANGES. UM, WE, THIS IS WHEN WE ADDED OUR LETTER OF INTENT PORTION, UM, IN, IN ADDITION TO OUR INTERNAL REVIEW BOARD. UM, AND THIS WAS SO THAT WE COULD ASSIST APPLICANTS IN PREPARING THEIR APPLICATIONS SO THAT THEY HAD A BETTER OP OP, BETTER OUTCOMES FOR THEIR PROJECTS, AND BETTER, UM, OPPORTUNITIES FOR APPROVAL. [00:05:01] ESSENTIALLY, UM, THE INTERNAL REVIEW BOARD WOULD PRO, UH, WOULD PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON, UM, JUST VERY SIMPLE DETAILS, UM, FOR THEIR PROJECT. UM, SUCH AS, YOU KNOW, UM, RIGHT OF WAY ISSUES, UTILITY ISSUES, EASEMENTS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. UM, AND WOULD, UM, AGAIN, ASSIST THE APPLICANTS IN MODIFYING OR CHANGING THEIR APPLICATIONS, UM, CHANGING THE SCOPE OF THEIR APPLICATIONS. UM, BASED ON THAT, UM, WE ALSO REMOVED A SCORING CRITERIA BECAUSE, UM, THE INTENT OF THE SCORING CRITERIA WAS, UM, TO DETERMINE WHO RECEIVED FUNDING. BUT WE TYPICALLY HAD ENOUGH FUNDING TO GO AROUND. UM, SO WE DEEMED IT UNNECESSARY. UM, WE ALSO RECONSIDERED SIDEWALK AND IRRIGATION SYSTEM ELIGIBILITY, UM, DUE TO THE EXISTING FUNDING SOURCES FOR SIDEWALKS, UM, AS WELL AS IRRIGATION SYSTEMS. I BELIEVE AT THE TIME, UM, THE COMMITTEE DETERMINED THAT IRRIGATION SYSTEMS ARE ESSENTIALLY MAINTENANCE TYPE OR MAINTENANCE TYPE EQUIPMENT. UM, THEY MAINTAIN LANDSCAPING. UM, AND SO THAT IS WHY THEY, UM, WERE ONLY OKAY WITH IRRIGATION, NEW IRRIGATION SYSTEMS GOING IN. INSTEAD OF UPGRADING, UM, FROM, LET'S SAY, SPRAY TO DRIP, UM, 2020, THERE WAS A, A GUIDELINE UPDATE. UH, THE MATCH REQUIREMENT CHANGED, UM, $10,000, NO MATCH REQUIRED FOR VOLUNTARY GROUPS. UM, AND SO IT KIND OF PUT, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS ON TWO DIFFERENT, UM, NOT TRAJECTORIES, BUT ANY VOLUNTEER. THE VOLUNTARY GROUPS HAD, UM, NO MATCH. AND THE MANDATORY GROUPS WOULD CONTINUE TO USE THEIR, UH, STANDARD, UH, PERCENTAGE MATCH, MATCH MATCH PERCENTAGES. MY APOLOGIES. UM, 2021 IS WHEN THE LIVE PLANT MATERIAL WAS REMOVED FROM ELIGIBILITY. UM, THIS WAS ALSO KIND OF SPURRED FROM THE, UM, FREEZE THAT WE HAD. UM, MANY OF THE PLANTS THAT WERE INSTALLED BY SOME NEIGHBORHOODS DIDN'T QUITE MAKE IT. AND SINCE THE FUNDING FOR NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, THE, THIS GRANT IS BOND, UH, CIP FUNDS, UM, IT WAS HARD TO JUSTIFY THE LIFESPAN OF, UM, OF THE ASSETS. ESSENTIALLY, UM, IN 2025, OR SORRY, 2023 EL UH, SPEED HUMPS WERE ADDED TO THE ELIGIBILITY, UM, ITEMS. SO KIND OF DIGGING INTO SOME PROJECT ELIGIBILITY. UM, THERE'S RECREATIONAL AMENITIES THAT ARE ELIGIBLE, NEIGHBORHOOD IDENTITY, UH, TYPE PROJECTS, BEAUTIFICATION PROJECTS, COMMUNITY GATHERING, AND THEN SAFETY AND SECURITY. UM, NOW ON OUR, ON, IN OUR GUIDELINES, WE DO LIST SOME SPECIFIC ELIGIBLE AND INELIGIBLE ITEMS. HOWEVER, THAT LIST IS NOT, UM, COMPREHENSIVE. LIKE WE DO WANNA ALLOW, UM, A LITTLE BIT OF, UH, FREEDOM FOR SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS TO BE CREATIVE AND TO ADD, UM, AMENITIES AND ASSETS THAT ARE SPECIAL TO THEIR OWN PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, BUT JUST KIND OF DIGGING INTO A FEW OF THESE ITEMS. UM, FOR ELIGIBLE REC, RECREATION AMENITIES, UM, THOSE COULD INCLUDE SPORTS, COURTS, PLAYGROUNDS, TRAILS, OPEN SPACE ENHANCEMENTS, UM, INELIGIBLE, UM, UH, AMENITIES WOULD BE POOL UPDATES OR POOL UPGRADES. UM, WE'VE HAD THOSE IN THE PAST AND THOSE JUST SIMPLY AREN'T ELIGIBLE. UM, NEIGHBORHOOD IDENTITY SIGN, UH, SIGNAGE, SIGNAGE, INTERWAY FEATURES, UM, HARDSCAPING, THINGS LIKE THAT ARE ELIGIBLE. UM, INELIGIBLE ARE SIGN TOPPER REPLACEMENTS. UM, SIGN TOPPERS ARE A VERY POPULAR PROJECT THROUGH OUR PROGRAM. AND SO IT'S ONE OF THOSE VERY, UM, EASY WINS. BUT ONCE THEY'RE INSTALLED, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANT TO REPLACE THEM, UM, THAT'S A MATTER OF UP TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, WE DO REFER THEM TO GARLAND HOUSING FINANCE CORPORATIONS BECAUSE, UM, SIGN TOPPERS ARE TYPICALLY A LOWER COST ITEM. UM, AND SO MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, UM, THE FUNDS THAT GHFC PROVIDE CAN COVER THE COST OF REPLACING SIGN TOPPERS. UM, FOR BEAUTIFICATION, SOME ELIGIBLE ITEMS ARE NEW LANDSCAPE LIGHTING, UM, HARDSCAPING, PUBLIC ART, UM, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, INELIGIBLE WOULD BE LIGHTING UPGRADES. UM, AND THEN SINCE 2021, LIFE PLANT MATERIAL IS IN, IS INCLUDED IN INELIGIBLE, UM, BEAUTIFICATION ITEMS, UM, COMMUNITY GATHERING, UM, ESSENTIALLY THINGS THAT CAN BRING THE COMMUNITY [00:10:01] TOGETHER. SO THAT CAN INCLUDE BENCHES, PICNIC TABLES, UM, PAVILIONS, UM, INELIGIBLE ITEMS. SO FAR WE DON'T HAVE ANY EXAMPLES TO DATE JUST BECAUSE, UM, MOSTLY WHAT WE RECEIVE HAS BEEN FAIRLY ELIGIBLE. UM, SOME SAFETY AND SECURITY ITEMS. ELIGIBLE ITEMS ARE, UM, SAFETY LIGHTINGS, SPEED HUMPS, UM, CROSSWALKS. WE HAVEN'T REALLY HAD REQUESTS FOR THOSE. UM, AND I KNOW THAT WOULD GO THROUGH TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT. I KNOW THEY HAVE CERTAIN CRITERIA AND STANDARDS FOR, FOR CROSSWALKS. UM, SOME INELIGIBLE ITEMS WOULD BE SAFETY CAMERAS, UM, AS WELL AS SIDEWALK REPLACEMENT. AND THAT'S DUE TO THE COST SHARE PROGRAM. UM, SO MAINTENANCE, UM, WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED IS ROUTINE MAINTENANCE. ESSENTIALLY ANYTHING THAT SHOULD BE FOUND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS, UM, OPERATING BUDGET, UM, IS NOT, IS NOT ALLOWED, UM, IS NOT ELIGIBLE. SO, UM, UM, SO JUST, AGAIN, JUST ROUTINE LIKE LANDSCAPING OR WHAT HAVE YOU, LIKE, THAT'S, THOSE, THOSE ITEMS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. UM, THE APPLICATION FOR THE GRANT, UM, ALSO INCLUDES OR REQUIRES THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD KIND OF WRITE OUT OR LIST OUT THEIR MAINTENANCE PLAN, UM, FOR THE AMENITIES THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE SEEKING TO INSTALL, UM, AS WELL AS THE, UM, IT ASKS THEM TO LIST THE LIFESPAN OF THE ASSET THAT THEY'RE, UM, THAT THEY'RE HOPING TO INSTALL. UM, SYSTEM, SYSTEM UPGRADES ARE GENERAL, ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. SO THIS COULD BE IRRIGATION SYSTEMS, UM, AND THEN JUST SECURITY SYSTEMS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. UM, IN GENERAL, UM, SOME THINGS THAT ARE ALLOWED ARE REPLACEMENT AND RECONSTRUCTION. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF, UM, BASED ON HISTORICAL PRECEDENT. UM, AND THE PA PAST COMMITTEES HAVE ALLOWED, UM, FOR THE REPLACEMENT OR RECONSTRUCTION OF THINGS, ITEMS THAT HAVE LIVED ITS USEFUL LIFE, ESSENTIALLY. UM, AND SO, UM, SOME EXCEPTIONS ARE SIDEWALK REPLACEMENTS. UM, 'CAUSE WE REFER TO THE SIDEWALK PARTICIPATION PROGRAM. UM, AND SUBDIVISION WALLS ARE ALSO NOT ALLOWED. UM, SO, UM, FOR REPURPOSING, YOU KNOW, UM, TRANSITIONING FROM LIKE A TENNIS COURT TO A PICKLEBALL COURT, SO JUST KIND OF, UM, REVITALIZING, UM, AN UNDERUTILIZED, UM, A OR, UM, UH, AN ASSET AGAIN THAT'S OUT THAT'S LIVED ITS USEFUL LIFE, UM, FOR PUBLIC USE. UM, SO THERE WERE SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT PUBLIC USE, UM, I BELIEVE BACK IN 2021. UM, AND SO ESSENTIALLY, UM, NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS ARE NOT ABLE TO RESTRICT NON-RESIDENTS FROM ENJOYING OR UTILIZING WHAT, WHATEVER TYPE OF ASSET THEY ARE, UM, INSTALLING WITH FUNDS FOR MATCHING GRANT, UM, IT MUST BE ACCESSIBLE. UM, AND SO ANYTHING THAT'S INSIDE A GATED COMMUNITY IS NOT ELIGIBLE BECAUSE IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE. UM, THEY ARE, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO POST SIGNS RESTRICTING ACCESS, UM, TO ONLY NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTS ONLY. UM, AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CHARGE MEMBERSHIP FEES, UM, FOR NON-RESIDENT USE. UM, THEY MAY AS, UM, THEY MAY HAVE A SIGN WITH, UM, LIKE USE HOURS OF USE. SO IF THEY INSTALLED A PLAYGROUND, THEY'RE ABLE TO, UM, POST AND ENFORCE, UM, PLAYGROUND HOURS AND SUCH, WHICH IS PRETTY, UM, WHICH IS ALSO SIMILAR TO PARK HOURS AND SUCH. UM, WE HAVE NOT REQUIRED THAT NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS, UM, POST ASSIGNED GUARANTEEING PUBLIC ACCESS. UM, SO THAT HAS NOT BEEN A REQUIREMENT THAT WE'VE MADE OF NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS, UM, REGARDING SUSTAINABILITY AND LONGEVITY. UM, SO AGAIN, AS MENTIONED BEFORE, WE DO ASK, UM, APPLICANTS TO LIST OUT WHAT THEIR MAINTENANCE, UH, PLAN OR REPLACEMENT PLAN FOR THE PROJECTS ARE. UM, AND THEN, UH, WE, UM, ONE OF THE APPLICATION ITEMS ALSO ASKS FOR THE LIFESPAN OF THE, OF THE ASSET OR AMENITY THAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO INSTALL. UM, SO THE CITY DOES RETAIN THE RIGHT TO REMOVE ANY ASSETS THAT AREN'T, UM, MAINTAINED ADEQUATELY BY THE APPLICANT OR BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, WE HAVE NEVER HAD TO DO THAT, UM, BUT WE DO HAVE THAT RIGHT. AND THEN I'M [00:15:01] LET, THEN I'M GOING TO ADDRESS THE, THE LAST QUESTION. SO, UM, THESE ARE BASED ON QUESTIONS THAT WERE SENT, UM, WHEN THE ITEM WAS PLACED ON THE, THE COMMITTEE'S, UH, AGENDA. SO, UH, REGARDING EVALUATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY, UH, ONE, ONE QUESTION WAS, IS THERE A PROCESS FOR MEASURING NEIGHBORHOOD IMPACT AFTER COMPLETION? UH, CURRENTLY THERE IS NOT A PROCESS FOR, UH, MEASURING IMPACT. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT QUALITATIVE GOALS AND VALUES, UM, THOSE ARE FAIRLY EASILY IDENTIFIED THINGS LIKE THE ASSET ESTABLISHES NEIGHBORHOOD IDENTITY AND PROMOTES COMMUNITY PRIDE. UM, IT INCREASES MARKETABILITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR IT IMPROVES QUALITY OF LIFE, RESIDENT ENGAGEMENT OR SOCIAL CAPACITY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. QUANTITATIVE EVALUATION IS WHERE IT GETS A LITTLE TRICKY. UM, THERE'S, THERE'S ONE KIND OF ASSET THAT MIGHT BE EASIER TO QUANTIFY. AND SO THAT'S THINGS THAT WE ALSO PROVIDE OUTSIDE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD. SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT, UM, IF THEY ASKED TO PUT IN A PICKLEBALL COURT, WELL, WE'VE ADDED AN ASSET THAT THOSE, YOU KNOW, THAT RESIDENTS IN THAT IMMEDIATE AREA CAN USE, WHICH MAY FREE UP AVAILABILITY OF THE PICKLEBALL COURT IN THE NEARBY PARK. WE ARE ALSO DOING IT AT LESS COST. SO, UM, WITH THE MATCHING GRANT, WHEN YOU GET INTO AN ASSET OVER 10,000 FOR A NON VOL, A NON-VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATION, THERE'S A MATCH REQUIREMENT. THEY ALSO ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE TO CONSTRUCT IT. SO IT'S A REIMBURSEMENT. UM, AND WE ARE REIMBURSING NOT AT A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT SOMEWHERE ELSE ON THE SCALE, THE UTILITIES, LIKE IF THERE'S LIGHTING FOR THAT COURT OR, YOU KNOW, ROUTINE MAINTENANCE IS ON THEM, NOT ON THE CITY. SO, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO DOCUMENT SOME SAVINGS IN THOSE REGARDS, BUT WHEN YOU START TO GET INTO THINGS LIKE, HOW DO WE VALUE THE SECURITY LIGHT OR THE, THE SPEED HUMP OR, UM, YOU KNOW, PRIDE, IT'S, IT STARTS TO GET HARDER TO PUT, YOU KNOW, AN ACTUAL QUANTITATIVE MEASURE ON THOSE THINGS. BUT, UM, BUT WE'RE OPEN TO THE, THE COMMITTEE'S, YOU KNOW, REQUEST IN THAT REGARD OR SUGGESTIONS. AND THEN IS IT THERE A REQUIREMENT FOR, UH, REPORTING OR PHOTOS POST PROJECT? YES. IN ORDER TO GET THEIR REIMBURSEMENT, UH, THEY MUST FINISH THE PROJECT, OR AT LEAST IF THEY'RE DISTINCT PHASED, THEY MUST AT LEAST COMPLETE A DISTINCT PHASE THAT WE'VE AGREED UPON UPFRONT. THEY MUST PROVIDE PICTURES, RECEIPTS, ALL OF THAT GETS REVIEWED BEFORE THEY ARE, UM, SENT THEIR REPLACEMENT. SO WITH THAT, WE WILL OPEN UP FOR QUESTIONS. UM, JEFF, YOU GOT, YOU GOT SOME QUESTIONS, ? YEAH, ACTUALLY, YEAH. SO I, WHEN I BROUGHT THIS FORWARD, UM, YOU KNOW, THE REASON FOR THE, I GUESS RELATED TO THE REASON FOR THE GRANT, I LOOK AT THE REASON FOR THIS GRANT IS TO, UM, INCREASE THE AESTHETIC APPEAL OF THE CITY, RIGHT? IT INCREASES PRIDE, IT INCREASES PROPERTY VALUE, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. SO IF THE OBJECTIVE IS TO INCREASE THE AESTHETIC APPEAL OF THE CITY, THEN I TRY TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE THINGS AROUND THIS PROGRAM WITH THAT IN MIND. AND SO, LIKE, I HAD A, UM, A CONSTITUENT ASK ME, HOW COME YOU GOT RID OF PLANTS IN THERE? AND OF COURSE, I HAD ASKED STAFF AND FOUND OUT, WELL, 'CAUSE WE HAVE TO SHOW BECAUSE IT'S A BOND PROGRAM, BOND RELATED OR GRANT RELATED IT, WE HAVE TO SHOW THAT IT HAS A 20 YEAR LIFESPAN. WELL THEN OF COURSE, THE QUESTION BROUGHT BACK TO ME AGAIN IS, WELL, TREES AND BUSHES HAVE 20 YEAR LIFESPAN, SO WHY CAN'T THOSE BE ADDED BACK IN? I WAS LIKE, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, LET'S START LOOKING A LITTLE DEEPER. AND THEN THAT GOT ME THINKING, WHAT ELSE, WHAT ELSE DO WE NEED TO LOOK AT? RIGHT? BECAUSE IF THE REASON IS TO INCREASE THE CITY'S AESTHETIC APPEAL, THEN, UM, IF SOMETHING MEETS THAT OBJECTIVE, THEN MY QUESTION IS WHY IS IT NOT ALLOWED, RIGHT? SO I CAN UNDERSTAND IF THERE'S THINGS RELATED TO THE GRANT THAT DISALLOW SOMETHING, BUT IF THERE'S NOT ANYTHING IN THE GRANT THAT'S DISALLOWING IT, WHY ARE WE DISALLOWING ANYTHING THAT INCREASES THE AESTHETIC COMPUTE? SO, UM, COULD YOU GO BACK TO THE, LET'S SEE, GO BACK TO MAYBE, I THINK IT WAS THE SECOND SLIDE. OKAY. GO FORWARD. ONE MORE. THERE WE GO. SO ON THIS ONE RIGHT HERE, UM, QUESTION, WHY WOULD, UM, UPGRADING SOMETHING LIKE, LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, UPGRADING AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM, RIGHT? IF THE IRRIGATION IRRIGATION SYSTEM WAS PUT IN IN 1982, IT'S PRETTY MUCH OBSOLETE, RIGHT? I MEAN, THE WHOLE THING NEEDS TO BE DUG UP AND RE RE REBUILT. SO WHY WOULD UPGRADING A SYSTEM NOT QUALIFY WHETHER WHATEVER THAT SYSTEM MAY BE? [00:20:01] SO PREVIOUS, UM, COMMITTEES HAD DETERMINED THAT, UM, EX, UH, USE THAT WORKING ASSETS OR WORKING EQUIPMENT, UM, WOULD, UH, JUST REPLACE, LIKE UPGRADING THEM, UM, DIDN'T NECESSARILY LIKE, SORRY, HOW , HOW AM I, HOW AM I WORDING? MY WORDING IS NOT TOO GOOD THIS MORNING. UM, ESSENTIALLY THEY DETERMINED THAT IF THEY, THERE WAS ALREADY AN EXISTING ASSET, UM, THAT WAS FUNCTIONING, THEN THEY WOULD RATHER THE FUNDS GO TOWARDS, UM, NEW AMENITIES AND RATHER THAN UPGRADING EXISTING FUNCTIONING, OKAY, UM, AMENITIES OR ASSETS. AND SO IT'S, IT WAS MORE OF A FOCUS ON WE WANT TO INSTALL NEW ASSETS, NOT MAINTAIN EXACT EXISTING, MAINTAIN OR UPGRADE EXISTING ASSETS. SORRY. HOPEFULLY OKAY. NO, NO, NO, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. RIGHT? AND THAT'S, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THESE ARE THINGS WE CAN ASSUME, RIGHT? BUT I DON'T WANT TO JUST ASSUME THAT, RIGHT? SO, UM, I WOULD POSE THAT IT'S NOT REALLY, UM, AND I KNOW I WAS ON, I WAS ON THIS COMMITTEE, WE REVIEWED THIS PROBABLY FIVE YEARS AGO. 'CAUSE I, I WAS HERE WHEN WE TOOK THE SOFTSCAPE OFF OF THERE, RIGHT? AND I WASN'T, I UNDERSTOOD THAT AT THE POINT, RIGHT. WE DON'T WANNA BE PAYING FOR PEOPLE'S LACK OF MAINTENANCE PRETTY MUCH, RIGHT? UM, I DON'T THINK AT THAT TIME WE HAD EVEN TALKED ABOUT, UM, UPGRADING SYSTEMS OR NOT, BUT PRESENT DAY AND WHAT I UNDERSTAND NOW, I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT, UM, ANYTHING THAT QUALIFIES FOR THIS, HAVING IT ON THERE, BECAUSE I DON'T, I I DON'T FEEL THAT, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, UPGRADING AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM IS A QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, WELL, ARE THEY GOING TO PUT IN A PICKLEBALL COURT OR ARE THEY GONNA UPGRADE THE IRRIGATION? I DON'T THINK THE THE HOAS ARE LOOKING AT IT THAT WAY, RIGHT? IT'S NOT WE'RE GONNA DO THIS OR THAT. THEY'RE LOOKING AT WHAT ARE OUR NEEDS AT THIS TIME. SO IF, AND AGAIN, JUST USING THIS EXAMPLE, RIGHT, IF IT'S AN, IF IT'S UPGRADED ON IRRIGATION, THERE'S A REASON THEY NEED TO DO THAT, RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO MAINTAIN, THEY'VE GOT THIS CORNER OVER HERE THAT'S NOT IRRIGATED OR IT'S NOT WORKING PROPERLY AND EVERYTHING'S DYING. SO THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ASKING FOR THIS NEED. SO YEAH. JEFF, COULD I, I MEAN, WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF UPGRADING A SYSTEM? CAN YOU GIVE US SOME EXAMPLES? I WOULD WHAT AN UPGRADED SYSTEM. WELL, I'M JUST, I'M TRYING TO THINK. I MEAN, I WOULD THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT'S OUT OF DATE, MAYBE, UM, I DON'T KNOW. DID WE SAY LIKE SECURITY LIGHTING IS INCLUDED OR NOT? IT'S NOT INCLUDED. NO. SECURITY LIGHTING IS ELIGIBLE. UM, HOW ABOUT, UH, HOWEVER, HISTORICALLY UPGRADING EXISTING LIGHTING HAS NOT BEEN ELIGIBLE. SO IF THEY'RE GOING FROM, UM, I GUESS INCANDESCENT BULBS. EXACTLY. YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE RIGHT THERE. UPGRADING, UPGRADING, UH, LIGHTING SYSTEM FROM INCANDESCENT. SO IT'S REALLY NOT DAY-TO-DAY MAINTENANCE BECAUSE, UH, RIGHT. OUR CUSTOMER SERVICE DEPARTMENT WORKS WITH HOAS ALL OVER THE CITY THAT HAVE BROKEN PIPES BROKEN, CORRECT? YEAH. NO BROKEN BOXES, NOT, NOT MAINTENANCE, UPGRADING AND REPLACING. AND I, I THINK THAT THE KEY WORD, UM, IS FUNCTIONING RIGHT? SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT VERBIAGE VERY SPECIFICALLY OUTLINED IF IT'S FUNCTIONING OKAY. BUT I KNOW LIKE RIVERSIDE, THEY'RE, UM, THEY'RE A MANDATORY HOA WILL. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEIR HOA IS DOING WHAT THEY NEED TO DO. SO LIKE RIGHT NOW THEY'RE, THEY'RE STRUGGLING WITH, THEY HAD A BROKEN PIPE AND IT WAS IN THE IRRIGATION SYSTEM. WELL, THEY WENT BACK AND FORTH WITH THE CITY ON, IS IT THE CITY'S PIPE? IS IT OUR PIPE? IS IT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE RIGHT IN AN EASEMENT? AND SO NOW THINGS ARE ALL MUSHY AND OVERFLOWING. SO I THINK THAT IF I'M ON TRACK WITH YOU, JEFF, THAT THOSE WOULD BE THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD WANT TO HELP WITH. I MEAN, IF IT'S, NO, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE MAINTENANCE. BUT I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE LIKE IN, AND MAYBE LIKE A BROKEN PIPE ISN'T THE RIGHT THING. BUT IF IT'S NON-FUNCTIONING, RIGHT, IF IT'S FUNCTIONING, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT HAVING ISSUES WITH THEIR THINGS DYING OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER. I DON'T KNOW. I I WOULD THINK THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. UM, I WOULD THINK THAT IF WE WERE GOING TO, 'CAUSE IF SOMETHING, IF A SYSTEM'S NOT FUNCTIONING, THAT SYSTEM, THAT SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE FIXED, RIGHT? IF IT'S FUNCTIONING BUT NOT MEETING THE NEED, THEN IT NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED. SO AN INCANDESCENT LIGHT'S PROBABLY A BETTER EXAMPLE THAN IRRIGATION, RIGHT? SO YOU GOT INCANDESCENT LIGHTING, UM, WHETHER IT BE SECURITY LIGHTING, BASKETBALL, COURT LIGHTING, WHATEVER, RIGHT? UM, BUT YOU WOULD WANT TO UPGRADE THAT SYSTEM EVEN THOUGH IT'S FUNCTIONING SURE, SURE, SURE. TO AN LED SYSTEM. SO I, I WOULD THINK THAT, UH, A FUNCTIONING SYSTEM WOULD BE ONE THAT [00:25:01] WE WOULD WANT TO UPGRADE. A NON-FUNCTIONING SYSTEM WOULD BE CONSIDERED MAINTENANCE. IT NEEDS TO BE REPAIRED. OKAY. AND I THINK THIS, WE SHOULD LOOK AT, LOOK AT UPGRADING FUNCTIONING SYSTEMS THAT ARE JUST OBSOLETE. NOT NECESSARILY OBSOLETE, BUT OUT OF DATE ON THEIR WAY TO OBSOLETE. YEAH, EXACTLY. ANDY, YOU GOT 2 CENTS? WELL, YEAH, JUST, JUST TO MAYBE WITH KEVIN CLARIFICATION ON WHAT, WHAT AN UPGRADE WOULD LOOK LIKE. UM, I'M TRYING TO, TRYING TO JUST WITH OUR VAST IRRIGATION SYSTEM IN THE, IN THE, IN THE PARKS IS AN, AN UPGRADE. I MEAN, YOU BASICALLY HAVE METER MAIN LINES, VALVES, LATERAL LINES, HEADS CONTROLLER. SO TYPICALLY THE THINGS THAT GET UPGRADED ARE GONNA BE, UM, HEADS OR THE CONTROLLER OR THE VALVES, THE PIPES. THERE'S NO UPGRADE. IT'S MAINTENANCE. SO I'M TRYING TO GET A GRIP ON WHAT, WHAT, WHAT AN UPGRADE WOULD LOOK LIKE. IN MY MIND, I WOULD SEE IT AS AN ADDITION. SO IF WE'RE UPGRADING A SYSTEM, IT'S, I VIEW IT AS A MAINTENANCE FUNCTION. UM, THE UPGRADE MEANING THAT, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, UM, POP-UP VALVES, UH, OR I MEAN, POP-UP HEADS HAVE TO BE REPLACED EVERY SO OFTEN JUST BECAUSE THE SPRINGS WEAR OUT, THEN THE HEADS DON'T RISE UP FAR ENOUGH AND THEY DON'T WATER, YOU KNOW, THE LANDSCAPING PROPERLY. SO AGAIN, A MAINTENANCE FUNCTION, IT JUST, IT'S AN EXPENSIVE MAINTENANCE FUNCTION TO REPLACE ALL THE OLD HEADS. BUT, UM, I THINK IF I RECALL THE INTENT WAS FROM PREVIOUS COMMITTEES, AND WE'RE CERTAINLY HAPPY TO EXPLORE WHAT THIS COMMITTEE WANTS US TO, BUT THAT IT WAS AN ADDITIVE FUNCTION THAT WE'RE ADDING TO THE AESTHETICS AND ADDING TO THE BEAUTIFICATION OPPORTUNITY. UM, NOW YOU COULD ALSO ARGUE PERHAPS THAT HAVING A DYSFUNCTIONAL SYSTEM, UM, IS A, IS A DEGRADATION OF THE AESTHETICS, BUT THAT STILL IN MY MIND FALLS UNDER A MAINTENANCE FUNCTION. UM, NOW IF YOU'RE ADDING TO THE SYSTEM BECAUSE YOU'VE ADDED LANDSCAPING, I COULD SEE THAT, BECAUSE WE ALSO LOOK AT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT, HISTORICALLY, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, UM, ANYTHING THAT KIND OF FITS THE CIP CRITERIA THAT WE USE IN OUR BUDGET IS THE SAME TYPE OF CRITERIA WE MIGHT USE FOR THIS IF IT MEETS THE LONGEVITY AND THAT KIND OF THING OF AN ASSET. SO IF THEY'RE ADDING AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER DIFFERENTLY. I AGREE. THE ONE THING I WOULD ADD IS SOMETIMES IF THEY HAVE AN ELEMENT THAT MIGHT NOT, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, CURRENTLY PLANT, WELL I, YOU, YOU MAY HAVE TO CORRECT ME ON THIS PLANT MATERIAL OR SOMETHING. THEY MAY BE ABLE TO USE SOME THINGS AS A MATCH, BUT NOT FOR REIMBURSEMENT, RIGHT? SO, OKAY. LIKE USE THE, USE THE MONEY THEY'RE SPENDING AS THEIR, AS A MATCH PORTION MM-HMM . BUT NOT A REIMBURSEMENT PORTION. MM. OKAY. WELL THAT, THAT COULD HELP. ANOTHER EXAMPLE, IF THEY'RE EXPANDING THEIR LANDSCAPE BEDS FOR AN ENTRY FEATURE, WE DON'T WANNA COVER THE LANDSCAPE MATERIAL, BUT IT MIGHT REQUIRE ADDITIONAL IRRIGATION. THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL ASSET THAT, THAT WOULD MEET THAT CCIP CRITERIA PERHAPS. AND, AND YOU'D MENTIONED EARLIER QUESTION ABOUT TREES AND SHRUBS. YES. THE INTENT IS THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD MAKE IT PAST FIVE YEARS, BUT THEY FREQUENTLY DON'T. SO, UM, DEPENDING ON THE HOAS, IF THEY'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, VOLUNTEERS THAT MANAGE THE IRRIGATION SYSTEM OR A CONTRACTOR THAT MANAGE IT, THE QUALITY OF THAT SERVICE WILL DICTATE IF THOSE PLANT MATERIALS EVER DIE, THAT THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THEIR MAINTENANCE PLAN THAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO TURN IN. BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD GO INTO SOMETHING ASSUMING THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HONOR WHAT THEY SAID THEY'RE GOING TO DO. YEAH. WE SEE A LOT OF TREES DIE , TO BE FAIR. WE HAVE A LOT OF CITY TREES THAT DIE TOO. SO IT HAPPENS . THAT'S MY POINT. THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. JUST EVEN WITH THE BEST INTENTIONS AND THE BEST RESOURCES THAT SOMETIMES EVEN WITH PERFECT MAINTENANCE, THEY STILL CROAK FOR UNKNOWN REASONS. YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW IDEALLY, ESPECIALLY FOR ME, RIGHT, I'D LIKE TO REMOVE ALL, YOU KNOW, SUBJECTIVITY FROM EVERYTHING WE DO, RIGHT? BUT I JUST KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO EVER BE POSSIBLE. WE WANNA TRY TO REDUCE THE SUBJECTIVITY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. BUT, UM, SO I DON'T KNOW. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS COVER AS, AS BROAD A SPECTRUM AS POSSIBLE, WHATEVER THAT MAY BE. UM, DEFINITELY NOT INCLUDING MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS. UM, BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, UPGRADING SYSTEMS, IF WE HAVE TO KEEP THE, IF WE HAVE TO KEEP UPGRADING A SYSTEM, WHATEVER THAT SYSTEM MAY BE, AS A, AS A SUBJECTIVE PART THAT'S REVIEWED BY STAFF, UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO COME TO COUNCIL. BUT, UM, THEN I, I'D BE OKAY WITH, WITH ADDING THAT IN THERE TOO. UM, I, I MEAN, YOU GUYS CAN ANSWER THIS BETTER. I DON'T FEEL THAT THAT WOULD CREATE AN UNDUE BURDEN ON STAFF, BUT I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR OPINION ON THAT. IF THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, SOME SUBJECTIVITY THAT YOU GUYS HAD TO REVIEW, DO YOU FEEL THAT IT WOULD CREATE AN UNDUE BURDEN ON STAFF TO DO THAT? WELL, I MEAN, I'M, I JUST HAD TO SHOW MY IGNORANCE, BUT I'M, I'M STILL STRUGGLING WITH HOW YOU DEFINE UPGRADES. ULTIMATELY, YOU'LL HAVE TO FIND FOR INDIVIDUAL OR THE IN, I GUESS REALLY THE ONLY EXAMPLE I CAN COME UP WOULD BE UPGRADING LIGHTING SYSTEMS FOR, AND THAT'S A [00:30:01] GREAT EXAMPLE BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY AND EVOLUTION OF THOSE SYSTEMS HAS MADE THEM MORE EFFICIENT AND MORE AFFORDABLE VERSUS AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM. WELL THAT WAS A, I THAT WAS A BAD EXAMPLE. THAT WAS THE FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MY HEAD. . WELL, AND, AND I KNOW THEY'RE GONNA BE CHALLENGED WITH EXPLAINING TO THE HOA, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. BUT AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM COULD BE UPGRADED FROM THE SPRAY SYSTEM TO A DRIP SYSTEM AND A DRIP SYSTEM WOULD BE ECONOMICALLY, OR, OR I, I GUESS TO ME, TO ME, AN UPGRADE MAKES IT CHEAPER. CHEAPER TO RUN, EASIER TO MAINTAIN. SO BECAUSE OF THE TECH, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED THAT NOW IT IS EITHER CHEAPER TO RUN OR EASIER TO MAINTAIN, MORE EFFICIENT IF WE MORE EFFICIENT IF WE MAKE THIS CHANGE. YES. THAT'S HELPFUL. I THINK IF WE'RE DEFINING AN UPGRADE THAT MAKES SENSE. I COULD SEE WE'RE GOING FROM A, A MANUAL CONTROLLER TO A REMOTE TYPE OF CONTROLLER THAT HAS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME ELIGIBILITY MAYBE IF IT'S TIED, RIGHT? IF IT'S TIED TO EFFICIENCY. UM, THERE, THERE'S WAYS TO DO THAT. I THINK IF YOU'RE TYING, SAME THING WITH THE LIGHTING. I THINK IF YOU'RE GOING FROM THE OLD HIGH PRESSURE SODIUMS OR METAL HAY LIGHTS TO LED, SO WE, WE COULD MAYBE EXPLORE THAT. AND I DON'T WANNA MAKE STRONG COMMITMENTS RIGHT NOW UNTIL WE HAVE A CHANCE TO EXPLORE WHAT THAT IMPACT IS. 'CAUSE I DO, I I DO WANNA BE VERY SENSITIVE TO, UM, THEIR, THEIR WORKLOAD AND, AND TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT'S WHAT. BUT IF WE COULD HAVE SOME TIME TO KIND OF EXPLORE IT A LITTLE FURTHER, SEEMS IT MAKES IT MORE EFFICIENT EITHER IN SOME WAY. IT SAVES YOU MONEY, IT SAVES YOU TIME, IT SAVES YOU ENERGY PRODUCTION OF WATER USE OR ELECTRICITY USE. YEAH. SOMETHING, IT MAKES IT MORE EFFICIENT. MAINTENANCE IS JUST THE STUFF YOU GOTTA DO EVERY DAY TO MAKE SURE IT KEEPS RUNNING. RIGHT. SO, OKAY, THAT'S CLEAR. AND LET ME, LET ME CORRECT SOMETHING. I SAID. SO AT ONE TIME WE DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITY OF ALLOWING, UM, NEIGHBORHOOD APPLICANTS TO TREAT LIVE PLANT MATERIAL AS PART OF THEIR MATCH REQUIREMENT. THAT WAS NOT WHERE THE COMMITTEE WOUND UP. SO CURRENTLY THAT IS NOT THE CASE. BUT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS, UH, THERE MAY BE OTHER EXAMPLES, BUT NOT LAST PLANT MATERIAL. WELL, I, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT INCLUDED THEN. I DON'T, I, I THINK ANYTHING THEY'RE DOING IN A PROJECT THAT WE CAN QUALIFY FOR, THE MATCHING PORTION SHOULD BE, BECAUSE THEN IF WE'RE LIKE, LET'S SAY JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, NOT INCLUDING LIVE PLANT MATERIAL AS PART OF THE MATCHING PORTION, THEN THEY MAY PULL THAT OFF OF THEIR SCOPE SO THAT THEY CAN GET TO THAT PROPER AMOUNT OF MATCH. BECAUSE IF THEY'VE ONLY GOT WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, $10,000 AND THEY'VE GOT A MA THEY'VE GOTTA GET THAT TO MATCH, THEN THAT'S ALL THEY'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT IS THINGS THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED IN THAT MATCH. AND THEN THEY'RE LIKE, I'M SORRY, WE CAN'T DO THE PLANTS. WE CAN ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE PLANTS DON'T COUNT TOWARD OUR MATCH PORTION. YEAH. SO I, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT ADDED. 'CAUSE THAT RIGHT THERE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S NOT MONEY COMING OUT OF OUR POCKET, RIGHT. IT'S JUST PART OF THE MATCH CONSIDERATION. AND THAT SHOULD BE ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO BE USED TO INCREASE THE AESTHETIC APPEAL. I DON'T, I WOULDN'T WANNA DISCOUNT ANYTHING OF THAT. THAT'S FAIR. I AGREE WITH THAT. CHRIS, DID YOU HAVE ANY, ANYTHING TO ADD? UM, I CAN UNDERSTAND THE, THE PLANT PART. 'CAUSE I HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD PROJECT THAT'S ABOUT 12 YEARS OLD AND THE PLANTS HAVE GONE CRAZY AND IT'S, THE MAINTENANCE PART IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP UP WITH, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE WORKING ON SOME SOLUTIONS TO THAT . UM, BUT YEAH, TREES, I WOULD LOVE TO, I'VE GOT THREE TREES THAT HAVE DONE FABULOUS, FABULOUS, FABULOUS. IN THAT INITIAL PROJECT. IT'S ABOUT 11, 12 YEARS OLD. THOSE TREES ARE STILL GOING GREAT. I HAVE TWO OTHER TREES THAT DIED. WE REPLACED THEM. THEY HAVE DIED AGAIN. THERE IS, IT'S, THERE'S NO HOPE. SO, AND THOSE ARE TREES THAT HAVE, SHOULD HAVE A 50 YEAR LIFESPAN. AND THEY'VE, WE'VE GONE THROUGH TWO SETS IN 10 OR 12 YEARS. SO AGAIN, THERE'S NO GUARANTEEING ON PLANTS. I, I GET THAT IF THE LIFESPAN SHOULD BE 10 TO 20 YEARS, OR 50 TO A HUNDRED YEARS OR WHATEVER, CEDAR TREES SHOULD LAST FOREVER. THESE HAVE NOT SO . BUT I KNOW THERE'S NO GUARANTEEING ON PLANT LIFE. NOW I, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THINGS LIKE FLOWERS AND DECORATIVE PLANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT I DO AGREE THAT MAYBE TREES AND SHRUBS THAT HAVE THOSE LONG LIFESPAN NORMALLY COULD BE INCLUDED, KNOWING THAT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE TO THAT. RIGHT? THE, SO THE PART ABOUT THE SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE 20 YEARS IS RELATED TO THE QUALIFICATION FOR THE GRANT ITSELF. SO WHETHER IT DOES OR DOESN'T [00:35:01] IN REALITY IS MOOT. BECAUSE IF THE TREE HAS A TAG ON IT AND IT SAYS THIS TREE HAS A 20 YEAR LIFESPAN, THEN IT QUALIFIES FOR THE GRANT PORTION. SO THE FACT OF WHETHER IT DIES IN FIVE OR SEVEN YEARS IS, IS ACTUALLY, IS MOOT. 'CAUSE OUR, OUR REASON FOR DISALLOWING IT IS THE FACT THAT IT DOESN'T MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS. WELL, IF IT'S GOT A TAG ON IT THAT SAYS IT HAS A 20 YEAR PLUS LIFE PLAN, THEN IT MEETS THE QUALIFICATIONS. CAN I, SCOTT DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL MAYBE CONTEXT FOR DISCUSSION ON THE, ON THE LANDSCAPING IN THE PAST? I'M SORRY TO THROW YOU A CURVE BALL, BUT , I PLEASE ON IN, I TEND TO RECALL THERE WAS SOME, THIS ISSUE COMES UP PERIODICALLY, SOME HARDY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ISSUE WITH PLANTS AND THE EXPENDITURE OF THOSE FUNDS AND WHETHER, WHETHER THAT PLANT MATERIAL LIVES OR DIES. OUR, UM, OUR PROPOSAL BACK IN, I FORGET WHAT YEAR IT WAS. OUR PROPOSAL WAS THAT, UH, THE STAFF'S PROPOSAL TO, TO THE COMMITTEE WAS THAT, UM, AS LONG AS THE, WHATEVER THE ESTIMATE FOR THE, THE, THE LIVE PLANT MATERIAL WAS, DID NOT EXCEED THEIR MATCH, WE COULD THEN SAY FROM A CITY PERSPECTIVE THAT THEIR CASH REQUIREMENT WENT TOWARD THAT. AND WE'RE NOT USING BOND MONEY FOR, UM, FOR THE PLANT MATERIAL. UM, WE BROUGHT THAT TO COMMITTEE, BUT COMMITTEE SAID TO ACTUALLY JUST TAKE OUT LIVE PLANT MATERIAL ALTOGETHER. SO THAT MAY BE ONE SOLUTION FROM THAT. WHAT I THINK WOULD BE OKAY FROM, UH, FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE. 'CAUSE THEN AGAIN, WE'RE NOT ISSUING 20 YEAR DEBT ON LIVE PLANT MATERIAL. WE CAN, WE CAN SAY TO THE, WE CAN SAY TO OUR BOND COUNCIL THAT, UH, THE, THE MATCH THAT THEY PROVIDED WENT TOWARD THE APPLIED PLANT MATERIAL. OUR MONEY DID NOT. AND IT'S ALL JUST STILL ONE PROJECT. THE ONLY THING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT TRICKY ABOUT THAT WAS THAT WAS ALSO WHEN WE DID THE VOLUNTARY, GOT $10,000 WITHOUT A MATCH. SO WE'D HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW THAT WOULD WORK FOR THEM BECAUSE THERE'S, WE CAN'T MAKE THAT SAME ARGUMENT. UM, WITH TREES. UH, TREES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN KIND OF A, UH, UH, ONE THAT WE'VE KIND OF BROUGHT TO THE COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER CASE BY CASE. WE CAN, UH, THIS IS THE SCOPING. WE CAN EVALUATE WHETHER WE WANNA JUST ENSHRINE THAT IN THE GUIDELINES. BUT, UM, I, I, I, I CAN'T, I REMEMBER ONE PROJECT WE DID BRING FORWARD THAT DID HAVE TREES AND I, I DON'T KNOW HOW THOSE TREES ARE DOING. THAT WAS A WHILE BACK. BUT, UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT TYPICALLY HAS BEEN CASE BY CASE FOR COMMITTEE APPROVAL, COUNCIL APPROVAL, UM, IN THE PAST. SO, LIKE I SAID, MAYBE SINCE, AGAIN, SINCE THIS IS SCOPING, THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT MAYBE PUTTING IN THE GUIDELINES FOR TREES BEING SPECIFICALLY ELIGIBLE OR NOT FOR THE FUTURE. COOL. OKAY. UM, UH, AND JUST ONE MORE THING WITH THE, THE UPGRADES. UM, SO AT THE TIME WE HAD A FEW, WHEN, WHEN THAT, WHEN WE DECIDED ON THOSE, WE HAD A FEW, UM, UH, APPLICATIONS THAT WERE LOOKING AT UPGRADING IRRIGATION THAT WAS FUNCTIONING FINE AND ACTUALLY HAD BEEN INSTALLED JUST A FEW YEARS PRIOR. SO THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO AVOID. IF, IF THE SYSTEM HAS NOT OUTLIVED ITS USEFUL LIFE, THEN WE PROBABLY DON'T NEED TO BE ISSUING 20 YEARS OF DEBT TO JUST UPGRADE A SYSTEM THAT HASN'T EVEN OUT. BUT IF THE, IF THE SYSTEMS OUT USED IT OUTLIVED ITS USEFUL LIFE, WE WOULD CONSIDER A REPLACEMENT. AND CAPITAL REPLACEMENTS HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. SO THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE FINE. YOU ALSO MENTIONED IN YOUR EXAMPLE, I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR EXAMPLE NOW, BUT YOU ALSO MENTIONED YOUR EXAMPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S AN AREA THAT'S NOT GETTING WATER. NOW WE, THAT'S, THAT'S A NEW AMENITY TO US. YOU KNOW, WE WOULD, THAT'S MORE OF AN ADDITION THAN IT IS A, AN UPGRADE. SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE THINGS THAT HAVE NOT OUT US OUTLIVED THEIR USEFUL LIFE THAT, UM, THAT, THAT IT WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE TO, AGAIN, ISSUE 20 OR DEBT TO, TO UPGRADE SOMETHING THAT IS WORTH. BUT IF IT IS, IF IT'S OUTLIVED ITS USEFUL LIFE, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. OKAY. AND THAT'S CURRENTLY, IT'S CURRENTLY THAT WAY RIGHT NOW IT'S HOW WE, IT'S HOW WE INTERPRET IT. AT LEAST AGAIN, IF, IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT MAKING THAT CLEARER IN THE GUIDELINES, WE CAN DO THAT. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S HOW WE'VE OPERATED, YOU KNOW, IN PRACTICE AND THEN FOR USEFUL LIFE. 'CAUSE OF COURSE THAT'S THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A SUBJECTIVE TERM OR IF YOU HAVE A CHART. UH, I MEAN IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THOSE, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, 20 YEARS FOR THE TREES. LIKE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE THAT IRRIGATION SYSTEM. WE, WE HAVE ONE, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW, BUT THERE IS ONE FOR, THAT'S CONSIDERED INDUSTRY STANDARD FOR IRRIGATION. THOSE ARE USUALLY MANU. THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE MANUFACTURE RECOMMENDATION. OKAY. AND WHAT ABOUT FOR, LET'S SAY FOR EXAMPLE, LIGHTING. WHAT IF YOU HAD A, A, YOU KNOW, A, WHAT'S IT CALLED? METAL HALI LIGHT, THE, AN OLDER LIGHT. UM, WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED NOT IN ITS USEFUL LIFE ANYMORE? 'CAUSE WE HAVE LED NOW OR, WELL, I DIFFERENT, A DIFFERENT NEED TO LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY. WELL, I I IF AGAIN, WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID IS SOMETHING THAT WORKS JUST FINE AND WE'RE REPLACING IT 'CAUSE WE LIKE THIS OTHER THING BETTER. IF THERE'S A CASE TO BE MADE THAT, WHETHER IT'S COST SAVINGS OR SAFETY THAT REPLACING IT IS IMPROVING THOSE THINGS, [00:40:01] THEN ABSOLUTELY. AND, AND WE TYPICALLY, WHEN IT BECOMES TO THOSE KIND OF BORDERLINE CASES, WE USUALLY DON'T MAKE THOSE CALLS. WE BRING THEM TO Y'ALL AND GIVE THEM, GIVE YOU ALL THE INFORMATION WE HAVE. SO I, I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING TO AVOID SUBJECTIVITY AND THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK AT BEING A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC AND THE GUIDELINES PROVIDE BOTH APPLICANTS AND COUNSEL MORE, MORE DIRECTION. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT WE'VE DONE. IF IT'S, IF IT'S A REAL BORDERLINE CASE, WE DON'T TRY TO MAKE THE CALL. WE JUST MAY GIVE YOU THE INFORMATION TO MAKE THE CALL. OKAY. OKAY. COOL. ALRIGHT. FOR THIS PART, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. I HAVE ANOTHER, UH, THING I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT ON THE, UM, THE PUBLIC ACCESS SIGN. WE, YOU HAD SOMEWHERE LISTED WHERE IT SAID THAT, UM, QUESTIONING ABOUT A PUBLIC ACCESS SIGN HAS NOT BEEN REQUIRED TO POST A SIGN GUARANTEE PUBLIC ACCESS. OKAY. UM, I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE US TO REQUIRE A SIGN, UM, STATING PUBLIC ACCESS BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE ARE, AND I THINK WE HAD ONE NOT TOO LONG AGO WHERE WHATEVER IT WAS, IT WAS A SPORT COURT OR SOMETHING. I'M GONNA JUST SAY PICKLEBALL COURT. RIGHT. I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS. IT WAS PICKLEBALL. WELL, OKAY. AND, AND LOOKING AT IT ON ANY MAP OR IF YOU DROVE TO IT, IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE IT'S A PART OF THAT HOA AND I GUARANTEE IN TWO YEARS WHEN THAT HOA BOARD CHANGES, THOSE PEOPLE ON THAT HOA BOARD AREN'T GONNA REALIZE THAT'S FOR PUBLIC ACCESS. AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE KARENS OUT THERE YELLING AT KIDS TO GET OFF OF THAT 'CAUSE IT'S NOT THEIRS. UM, SO I THINK IF WE DO APPROVE THIS, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WORDING WOULD NEED TO BE, RIGHT? YOU DON'T WANT TO STICK A SIGN IN FRONT OF EVERYTHING WE DO. BUT LET'S JUST SAY, I MEAN, A SPORT COURT IS AN EXAMPLE, RIGHT? IF IT'S SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, A SPORT COURT THAT WE PUT IN, I FEEL THAT WE SHOULD REQUIRE THEM TO HAVE A SIGN SAYING THAT THIS IS FOR PUBLIC USE. SO THAT WAY WHEN THE HOA BOARD CHANGES, THEY STILL UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS A PUBLIC USE AMENITY. AND YOU KNOW, THE CITY HAS FUNDED AT LEAST PART OF THAT. AND SO IT NEEDS TO BE USED FOR THAT. SO I THINK, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. SURE. YEAH. YEAH. I, I DEFINITELY AGREE. I'D LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING THAT SAYS, UM, YOU KNOW, FUNDED, PARTIALLY FUNDED BY NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY FOR PUBLIC USE. YEAH. SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE FRIENDLY OF, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC USE. BUT SO THAT WAY, LIKE JEFF WAS SAYING, IN FIVE, 10 YEARS WHEN THE NEXT HOA BOARD COMES ALONG, THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT WHY IT'S PUBLIC USE. AND THEN ALSO IT KIND OF GIVES US THAT, UM, PR I GUESS OF LIKE, OH, THE CITY HELPED, YOU KNOW, HELPED US ACQUIRE THIS. THAT IDEA OF A SIGN THAT SAYS THIS PROJECT WAS FUNDED THROUGH A GRANT MM-HMM . FROM NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD MATCHING VITALITY GRANT FOR PUBLIC USE. YEAH. I LIKE THAT IDEA WOULD BE A GOOD, YEAH, BECAUSE IT, THIS IS WHERE IT WAS FUNDED. THIS IS HOW IT WAS FUNDED. AVOIDS CONFLICTS. YEAH. THIS IS, SURE. YEAH. BECAUSE IT WILL HAPPEN. TAKE TAKE THE GUESSING OUT OF IT. YEAH. YOU KNOW, FIVE, 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD. I DO HAVE A QUESTION. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY WILL, UM, CREATE, FABRICATE AND PAY FOR OUT? I THINK WE WOULD JUST MAKE THE REQUIREMENTS AND THEN MAKE THEM BY STORY. YEAH. BECAUSE IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED. 'CAUSE IF WE WERE TO DO IT, IF WE WERE TO DO IT, THEY'RE ALL GONNA LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME, RIGHT? YEAH. BUT LET'S SAY THEY ALREADY HAVE SOME KIND OF THEME GOING ON, THEN WE CAN MAKE THE VERBIAGE RIGHT. WE MAKE THE REQUIREMENT FONT SIZE ALL JUST LIKE WE DO ON OTHER, SOME OTHER, WE DO OUR CONSTRUCTION SIGNS. YEAH. THE CONTRACTORS, WE GIVE THE SPECIFICATION THE CONTRACTORS REQUIRED TO PRODUCE IT. YEAH. THEY'RE REQUIRED TO PRODUCE IT. 'CAUSE THAT WAY THEY'RE ALSO REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN IT. AND IF THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF THEME GOING ON, THEN IT CAN MATCH THE REST OF THEIR THEME TOO. YES. THANK YOU. WE DON'T WANNA BE IN THE, WE DON'T WANNA BE IN THE DESIGN MAINTENANCE. YEAH. YEAH. HEARTLAND. YEAH. AND MAYBE LIKE A SIZE REQUIREMENT OF WHAT THE SIZE YEAH. THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY GOT ALL THAT STUFF. YEAH. WE COULD DO THAT. SIZE FONT VERBIAGE. YOU CAN PUT WHATEVER DECORATIONS ON IT YOU WANT. YEAH. JUST ROLL THAT INTO THEIR, THEIR CURRENT AMOUNT. YEAH. PERFECT. ANYTHING ELSE, MR. BASS? THAT'S ALL I HAD. REALLY APPRECIATE YOU GUYS LISTENING TO US AND BEING SO OPEN TO THE SUGGESTIONS. ABSOLUTELY. GOOD SUGGESTION. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? SO I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. , UM, RIGHT. CAN YOU GO TO SLIDE FIVE? UH, THE, THEN A FOUR. FOUR. UM, OKAY. A LINE. MAYBE GO BACK ONE. JUST KIDDING. OKAY. UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE CROSSWALKS AS, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT OVER TO ELIGIBLE INSTEAD OF UNDEFINED. 'CAUSE I THINK THAT CROSSWALKS ARE VERY IMPORTANT. HOWEVER, THAT MAY LOOK IF IT'S PAINTED OR HMM. HOW DOES THAT CURRENTLY WORK WITH? UM, IT SAYS IT, I MEAN IT JUST HAS IT AS UNDEFINED, BUT I THINK THAT [00:45:01] THAT SHOULD JUST BE SO LET AS THE CITY, SO LET US EXPLORE THAT BECAUSE IT DEPENDS, UM, WE, THERE IS SOME VALIDITY TO THAT IDEA BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT TO US IN OUR CORRIDOR PROGRAM. IT'S IMPORTANT AS WE TALK THROUGH OUR, OUR COMP PLAN'S GONNA TALK ABOUT IT. OUR CZB HOUSING STUDY IS GONNA TALK ABOUT IT. SO IT WILL BE IN ALIGNMENT WITH THAT. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF THERE'S SOME MATERIALS THAT ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF ROAD. SO. SURE. SO LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, I KNOW THAT STREETS AND AND TRANSPORTATION, UH, DON'T CARE FOR CERTAIN MATERIALS DEPENDING ON THE SIZE AND THE, UH, AND THE SPEED OF THE STREET. IF IT'S INTERIOR, IT'S A DIFFERENT SET OF STANDARDS. BUT I THINK WE COULD ABSOLUTELY EXPLORE IT AND JUST SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THOSE CATEGORIES ARE SUBJECT TO STREET AND TRANSPORTATION APPROVAL. YEAH. YEAH. UM, BUT THERE, BUT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE WHERE IT WAS A, A BETTER BLOCK PROJECT WHERE IT MIGHT BE, IF IT'S AN INTERIOR STREET AND THEY WANT IT TO BE COOL AND ARTSY AND IT DOESN'T VIOLATE ANY SAFETY REGULATIONS, THEN, THEN WE'LL, WE'LL FIGURE THAT I, WELL, THAT'S RIGHT. ART, I'M SORRY. ART'S NOT PART OF THE, GOSH, THAT WAS A CAN OF WORMS, WASN'T IT? SO, BUT E EITHER WAY I THINK IT SHOULD BE, I THINK WE COULD, UM, I THINK WE COULD EXPLORE IT. WELL, AND IT DOES SAY PUBLIC ART IS ELIGIBLE. SO IS IT? YEAH. WHAT PART, WHAT PART'S NOT IN THE, IS IT CROSSWALKS OR THE ART PART? IT'S CROSSWALKS, CROSSWALK. SO THE STATE OF TEXAS ISSUED A MEMO ABOUT A WEEK OR TWO AGO. OH. YOU CAN NO LONGER PUT ART OH, OKAY. IN THE ROADWAY OR SHOULDER. YEAH. WHICH I MEAN, WHICH IS FINE THAT SO IN, OH YEAH. IN MY HEAD, IN MY HEAD I'M SPECIFICALLY THINKING OF NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE WESTERN HEIGHTS, RIGHT? SO THEY'VE GOT TWO, THREE SCHOOLS WITHIN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO THEY HAVE A VERY HEAVY WALKER, UM, POPULATION OF KIDS. AND SO IF THEY WANTED TO FUND CROSSWALKS AND TAKE THAT OFF OF OUR, YOU KNOW, OUR STREETS OR TRANSPORTATION BUDGET, , THEN I THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE A FAIRLY EASY THING. AND EVEN IF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, PAINTING, WHICH I AGREE IT SHOULD, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS ON WHAT WOULD BE GOOD MATERIAL OR NOT. AND EVEN IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DO KIND OF ALONG THE LINES OF OUR SIDEWALK, UM, COST SHARE PROGRAM, UM, I, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL EVEN IF THEY WANTED THE LIGHTS, RIGHT? LIKE THE, THE PEDESTRIAN LIGHTS. I THINK THAT THAT SHOULD BE, THAT SHOULD BE AN OFFER. I I JUST THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENT FUNDING SOURCE FOR THAT. RIGHT. LET, LET US EXPLORE IT. I MEAN WE'LL WE, LET'S, LET'S DO OUR DO SOME HOMEWORK AND AND WE'LL BRING IT BACK. YEAH. 'CAUSE I DON'T, I MEAN, YEAH, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THAT SHOULD BE, I I JUST FEEL THAT SHOULD BE, THERE SHOULD BE, IF THERE'S A NEED FOR THAT, THEN THERE'S ANOTHER FUNDING SOURCE FOR THAT. RIGHT. WHETHER IT BE, UM, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH TRANSPORTATION OR SOMETHING. RIGHT. I MEAN, 'CAUSE THAT, THAT'S A CITY SAFETY ISSUE, RIGHT? THAT'S LIKE SAYING THAT'S LIKE A STOP SIGN OR SOMETHING FAIR. SO I JUST THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT AVENUE FOR THAT. YEAH. THERE ARE WARRANTS AND STANDARDS YEAH. FOR THAT TYPE OF THING. SO YEAH. FAIR POINT. YEAH. I DO KNOW THAT, UM, I SPOKE WITH, UM, MEMBERS OF TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENTS, UM, PREVIOUSLY JUST IN THE PAST. AND I DO KNOW THAT, UM, CROSSWALKS, UH, YOU KNOW, AROUND SCHOOLS AND PARKS AND TRAILS AND SUCH, UM, ARE TYPICALLY WHERE THEY INSTALL, UM, WHERE THEY ARE INSTALLED. UM, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY, AS MENTIONED BEFORE, WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK INTO RESEARCH THAT SOME MORE. UM, THEY DO HAVE DIFFERENT CRITERIA AND USES AND UH, JUST VOLUME AS WELL. BUT, UM, THAT'S TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT. YEAH. I THINK IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S AN IMMEDIATE NEED, I RESEARCH IT. YEAH. YEAH. CAN YEAH. IF WE CAN JUST KIND OF LOOK INTO THAT AND SEE, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THERE'S PROBABLY LIKE ONE-OFFS WHERE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY WANT AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF CROSSWALKS OR, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? UM, SO IF WE CAN JUST KIND OF EXPLORE THAT, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. UM, AND THEN MY OTHER QUESTION IS, UM, IN REFERENCE TO THE SAFETY CAMERAS. UM, SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE LIKE IF WE HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS SEEING LIKE INCREASED CRIME AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY FELT WOULD HELP SAFETY OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD AT SOME POINT POTENTIALLY LOOK AT HELPING THEM WITH? IF, I MEAN, SO I'M THINKING LIKE MAYBE SOME OF THE ROUGHER NEIGHBORHOODS, RIGHT? THEY'VE GOT A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION THAT'S VOLUNTEER AND THEY DON'T WANT TO ADD A PLAYGROUND OR WHATEVER BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT IT'S GONNA GET DESTROYED. RIGHT. UM, BUT SOMETHING THAT WOULD HELP THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD BE SAFETY CAMERAS. WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CASE BY CASE OR, I'D LIKE TO, BEFORE WE [00:50:01] ANSWER THAT, I'D LIKE TO GET A LEGAL ANALYSIS ON THAT FIRST. OKAY. UM, THERE'S SOME IMPLICATIONS THERE THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY BE INFORMED ON. AND I THINK TOO, THEN THIS JUST FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, IF, IF YOU, IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL, SOMETIMES THE CAMERAS CAN GIVE A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY. SURE. PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE NOT MONITORED AND IF THEY'RE NOT LICENSED PLATE READERS. AND I KNOW THERE'S SOME OTHER, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, KURT, MAYBE WE CAN MAKE A NOTE TO KIND OF DO AN ANALYSIS ON THAT BEFORE WE PERFECT. GO TOO MUCH FURTHER. AND I KNOW THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, UM, IN COUNCIL BEFORE ABOUT IF A NEIGHBORHOOD WANTED, UM, LIKE THE FLOCK CAMERAS. I JUST, I DON'T, IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION. UM, IF THERE WAS, DO YOU REMEMBER IF THERE WAS LIKE A PRICE SHARE THAT PD WAS WILLING TO DO WITH FLOCK OR NOTHING? WELL, IF I RECALL, THEY'RE ALSO, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR CIP 'CAUSE THEY'RE AN ONGOING ANNUAL EXPENSE IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. OKAY. AND I, I DON'T THINK THAT, I THINK THAT WE WERE, IF WE WERE LOOKING AT THAT, WE WEREN'T LOOKING TO CHARGE THEM FOR IT. WE WERE JUST LOOKING FOR WHERE WE WERE GOING TO PLACE HOURS. OKAY. BECAUSE I, THAT'S THAT THEY THEN IT, IT'S A BUDGET REQUEST. IT'S LIKE, I CAN'T REMEMBER. IT'S LIKE MAYBE LIKE 7,000 A YEAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. FIVE MAYBE. OKAY. UM, MAYBE I, I NEED TO LOOK INTO THAT MYSELF, BUT YEAH, I I WAS JUST CURIOUS. I'VE GOT SOME NOTES IN HERE RELATED TO THE SAFETY CAMERAS. I'VE TALKED TO GII THINK I'D LIKE TO JUST, YOU KNOW, GO TALK TO GDP SURE. LIKE THAT. AND SEE I DON'T, THEY'RE GONNA KNOW BETTER. YOU KNOW, ARE THERE ANY GRANTS THAT COVER THINGS LIKE THAT? IS THERE THERE ANY KIND OF FEDERAL FUNDING COMING AND THEN YOU'VE GOT MONITORING. WHERE DOES IT TIE INTO, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GONNA, IF WE'RE GONNA BE INVOLVED IN IT, THEN HOW ARE WE GONNA HAVE ACCESS TO IT AND WHO'S GONNA MONITOR IT? MAINTAIN MAYBE THAT'S ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. REQUIRING LICENSE PLATE READERS. LIKE I'VE GOT AN HOA THAT THE ONLY CRIME IN THE HOA WAS CARS GETTING STOLEN OUT OF THEIR YEAH. PARKING CLUBHOUSE PARKING LOT. THEY PUT IN LICENSE PLATE READERS. IT'S ALL, ALL FIXED NOW. SO THE LICENSE PLATE READERS WILL GO GO A LONG WAY. OKAY. MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN, PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE CAN YEAH. CAN HASH OUT. YEAH. I, I'M GET LITTLE, MY NOTES TO AWESOME. AND I DO AGREE WITH THE UPGRADING OF THE LIGHTS. UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE OLD BULBS HAVE BEEN OUTLAWED. AND SO IF THERE IS A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I KNOW GP AND L WILL REPLACE, YOU KNOW, MOST STREET LIGHTS, BUT I THINK, UM, LIKE RIVER SET HAS THEIR OWN LIGHTING AND SO IF AT SOME POINT, YOU KNOW, THOSE LIGHTS BECAME OBSOLETE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE US TO BE ABLE TO HELP THEM WITH THOSE, EVEN IF THEY ARE STILL FUNCTIONING. YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT LED IS MORE COST EFFECTIVE, UM, TYPE OF SITUATION. SO I I'M AGREE IN AGREEANCE WITH THAT TRAIN OF THOUGHT AS WELL. SO YES MA'AM. UM, REGARDING THE SECURITY CAMERAS, THERE'S ONE OTHER THING I'D LIKE TO THROW OUT THERE FOR CONSIDERATION. I THINK POSSIBLY ONE OF THE REASONS WE DID NOT WANNA GET INTO FUNDING PRIVATE SECURITY CAMERAS IS BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, PRIVACY ISSUES AND THEN BRING THE CITY INTO A CAMERA SYSTEM THAT COULD BE MISUSED. SURE. UM, SO THAT'S JUST ONE OTHER THING TO CONSIDER. YEAH. I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS WOULDN'T BE THE AVENUE TO, TO ADDRESS IT. SURE. UM, AND ONE LAST QUESTION. UM, SUBDIVISION WALLS, UM, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE OR JUST, UM, MY, MY HEAD IS GOING AGAIN TO WESTERN HEIGHTS. UM, WHAT ABOUT BEAUTIFICATION OF SUBDIVISION WALLS? SO WE HAVE DONE BEAUTIFICATION OF SUB WALLS IN THE PAST. UM, AGAIN, PUBLIC ARTS, UM, IS ELIGIBLE, UH, THROUGH THIS PROGRAM. UM, BUT IT IS, AS LONG AS IT IS, UM, THE WALL IS STABLE STRUCTURALLY SOUND. UM, AND IT'S NOT A MAINTENANCE TYPE PROJECT. I KNOW PREVIOUSLY THERE HAVE BEEN REQUESTS TO LIKE PAINT A WALL. WELL THAT TY THAT'S MAINTENANCE AND FALLS UNDER THE PURVIEW OF THE, THE HOA. UM, BUT IT'S MORE SO OF THE REPAIRS OF OKAY, PERFECT. THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING, BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT PART. CAN YOU, WHERE, WHERE, OKAY. SO I, I JUST MUST HAVE NOT, NOT REALLY CAUGHT THAT PART. SO I THINK IT'S ON THE NEXT, THEY CAN'T BUILD ANY PART OF A WALL OR THEY CAN BUILD A NEW ASSET. Y'ALL CORRECT ME IF I SAY SOMETHING WRONG HERE. OKAY. THEY CAN BUILD A NEW ASSET SUCH AS AN ENTRY FEATURE. THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING. OKAY, COOL. SO YOU, BUT YOU CAN'T USE IT TO, SO DO REPAIR, MAINTENANCE, THAT KIND OF STUFF. OKAY. OKAY. COOL. YEAH. 'CAUSE I WAS THINKING IF YOU HAVE LIKE A WALL AND IT'S JUST A, YOU KNOW, JUST A FLAT OLD WALL AND THEN THEY WANT TO ENHANCE THE ENTRY, THEY CAN DO THAT. THEY CAN BUILD SOMETHING NEW ONTO IT. OKAY. COOL. THANK YOU. WE HAVE HAD THOSE FEW, LIKE ON THE EDGE, YOU KNOW, INTERPRETATION THINGS WHERE AN ASSET, [00:55:01] AN ENTRY FEATURE WAS BUILT, THAT A CAR RUNS THROUGH IT OR UH, A NEW ASSET WAS INSTALLED AND A CAR RUNS THROUGH IT. AND SO THEN IT'S LIKE, CAN WE REPLACE THAT? AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE TYPICALLY TRY TO GET TO A YES. BUT IF IT'S, AGAIN, IF IT'S A BORDERLINE THING, WE'LL BRING IT TO THE COMMITTEE FOR YOUR INTERPRETATION. SO THEY CAN'T REPAINT A WHITE WALL WHITE, BUT THEY CAN REPAINT A WHITE WALL WITH FLOWERS AND BUTTERFLIES RIGHT. KIND OF THING. I ACTUALLY, I BEL I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS. TALE NORTH A MATCHING GRANT OR WAS THAT A STAFF INITIATED PROJECT? SO TELL NORTH STARTED AS A MATCHING GRANT. UM, THEY SIMPLY JUST WANTED TO REPAINT THEIR WALL. UM, HOWEVER, UM, WE WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH THEM TO CREATE IT, TO TRANSFER IT TO A STAFF INITIATED PROJECT AND, UM, INSTALL THE DECORATIVE METAL PANELS AND UM, THE HARDSCAPING AND LANDSCAPING AND LIGHTING, UM, TO REALLY MAKE IT A STATEMENT. AND THAT'S PART OF THAT SOMETIMES THINGS WILL GET SHIFTED TOWARDS A STAFF INITIATED PROJECT IF THERE ARE CITY GOALS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH. SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF CORRIDOR BEAUTIFICATION AT THE CITY LIMITS. UM, AND SO WE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO DO MORE THAN WHAT THEY WOULD EVER BE ABLE TO DO WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE MATCHING GRANT. PERFECT. I DO WANNA SAY THAT I APPRECIATE THE WAY THAT YOU GUYS TAKE THE TIME TO REALLY LOOK AT THE REQUESTS AND SEE HOW WE CAN, EVEN IF IT DOESN'T APPLY OR YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T GO WITH THE, THE GUIDELINES, YOU GUYS ARE ALWAYS ABLE TO BEND AND HELP GET THINGS DONE OR GUIDE THEM IN THE WAY TO GET IT APPROVED. AND SO WE REALLY DO APPRECIATE, UM, ALL OF THE WORK THAT YOU GUYS DO FOR THAT AND MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT JUST A HARD NO. AND SO THAT'S DEFINITELY JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW THAT WE DO APPRECIATE IT. WE SEE YOU AND WE APPRECIATE YOU. SO YES. BEING, BEING THE EXPERT AND GUIDING PEOPLE YES. GUIDING THEM ALONG AS OPPOSED TO JUST GIVING THEM AN ANSWER. YEAH. WE DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THAT. YEP. THANK YOU. ALRIGHTY. SO WE'RE GOOD WITH THIS ONE. YEP. WE'RE GONNA, WE WANNA BRING IT BACK FOR NOVEMBER WITH THOSE, UM, THOSE COUPLE OF ITEMS. YEAH. YEAH. DO YOU THINK NOVEMBER IS GOOD FOR YOU GUYS OR DO WE NEED TO PUSH IT, PUSH IT BACK TO, YOU WANNA PUSH IT TO DECEMBER? I KNOW THAT YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF, UH, QUAIL CREEK AND I DON'T WANNA OVERLOAD YOU. IF WE COULD HAVE TO DECEMBER, THAT WOULD BE GOOD. 'CAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO COORDINATE WITH ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. UM, PUBLIC SAFETY AS WELL. PERFECT. SO THERE'S THEIR CALENDARS TO THINK OF TOO. BE BEAUTIFUL. AWESOME. BRINGING YOU MORE MATCHING GRANTS . YAY. WE LOVE THAT. WE LOVE THAT. I LOVE YESTERDAY BECKY WAS OUT, UM, UM, HUSTLING, HUSTLING PEOPLE TO START A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND AND EDUCATING ABOUT GRANT. SO THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH. I DID HAVE SOMEBODY AS I WAS GOING BACK TO MY CAR LAST NIGHT, ROLLED OUT HER WINDOW AND YELL AT ME. OH MY GOD, THIS IS SO PRETTY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. SO ? YES. . WE HAVE SOME HONKS. YES. THE HONKS. AND IT LOOKS GREAT. THERE WAS ONE LADY THAT CAME FROM HER HOUSE AND WALKED THE ENTIRE STRETCH OF THE WALL AND TOLD EVERY SINGLE PERSON THANK YOU. AND AS SHE WAS LEAVING, WE ODDLY BOTH TOLD EACH OTHER, WE LOVED EACH OTHER. AND IT WAS A LONG DAY. IT WAS A LONG DAY . SO IF YOU'RE OUT AND ABOUT, HIGHLY RECOMMEND DRIVING DOWN MILLER, UM, BETWEEN CENTERVILLE AND DAIRY. AND CHECK OUT THAT WALL 'CAUSE IT IS FANTASTIC. ALL RIGHT. AND OUR FINAL AGENDA ITEM IS GONNA BE THREE C. THIS ONE IS THIRD PARTY MILLERS DISTRIBUTED CITYWIDE. THIS IS LISTED AS A SCOPING. UM, THE COMMITTEE WILL DISCUSS THE CITYWIDE DISTRIBUTION, DISTRIBUTION OF FLYERS, MAILERS, HANDBILL, AND OTHER DOCUMENTS BY THIRD PARTIES. THIS ITEM WAS REFERRED TO COMMITTEE BY MAYOR PROTO ELECT, AND SECONDED BY MYSELF. UM, BETWEEN CODE AND UM, THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WE HAVE HAD MANY, MANY, MANY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS. UM, THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR WAS, UM, STARTED BECAUSE OF OUR SAVE ON OF THROWER OUTERS. UM, AND SO WE'VE GOT CHRIS HERE WITH CODE HERE TO UH, GIVE US SOME INFO OR ASK US QUESTIONS. WHATEVER YOU NEED FROM US. YEAH, THIS ONE'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT. WE DON'T HAVE A PREPARED PRESENTATION, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET A FEEL FOR WHAT, WHAT WE CAN DO, WHAT YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT. YES. UM, IF THAT'S ANY, THAT'S ANYTHING DIFFERENT. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, UH, PAMPHLET OR FLYERS? WE DIDN'T, I DIDN'T BRING ANY MAN. I JUST GOT ONE. I JUST GOT ONE YESTERDAY. YES. I PICKED UP FLOOR THIS WEEK. YES. I MEAN, BETWEEN TREE TRIMMERS AND I DON'T HAVE A TREE IN MY FRONT YARD. YARD, ROOFERS. YEAH. AND THE, [01:00:01] THOSE HAD THINGS THAT GOT THROWN. YEAH. AND THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE THAT I DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT. AND IT WENT RIGHT IN THE RECYCLING BIN. YEAH. BUT, SO THIS ONE IS NAMELY, UM, THE ONES THAT THEY, UM, I'M GOING TO USE THE WORD VERY LOOSELY, THROW OUT THE WINDOWS BECAUSE, UM, I HAVE QUITE LITERALLY SEEN THEM JUST DROP THEM OUT THE WINDOWS AS THEY'RE DRIVING THROUGH NEIGHBORHOODS. UM, WE CURRENTLY HAVE A CITY ORDINANCE THAT SAYS ANY, UM, MAILERS OR HANDOUTS HAVE TO BE WITHIN, I THINK IT'S THREE, FIVE FEET, FIVE FEET OF THE DOOR. UM, AND THE, THE MAIN ISSUE WITH THESE IS THAT THEY'RE SO FAR FROM DOORS AND THEN THE WIND CATCHES THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT HEAVY. AND THEN THEY END UP ON OUR STREETS AND THEN IT RAINS. OR SOMEONE'S IRRIGATION SYSTEM GOES OFF AND THEY GET WET, AND NOW THEY'RE GETTING RAN OVER AND THEY'RE WET AND THEY'RE JUST MESSY. AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS? THEY END UP IN OUR CREEKS. SO, UM, THIS HAS BEEN AN ONGOING FIGHT FOR WHAT, THE LAST YEAR REALLY THAT, UM, DALLAS MORNING NEWS AND THE CONTRACT WITH AVON. UM, SO THEY, DALLAS MORNING NEWS NO LONGER HANDLES ANY OF THOSE THINGS. THE ONLY THAT'S WHERE, THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING WAS THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS DOES, IS DALLAS MORNING NEWS. THEY HAD A CONTRACT WITH AV ON WHICH THE, THOSE INSERTS WERE IN THE NEWSPAPER. THEY ARE NO LONGER IN THE NEWSPAPER, WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE GETTING THROWN OUT OF CAR DOORS. SO, UM, IT IS CONTRACTORS THAT ARE THROWING IT ON BEHALF OF SAVEON. I HAVE PERSONALLY, UM, FOLLOWED A COUPLE THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, RECORDING THEM. UM, I LIVE IN AN OLDER NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE 90% OF MY RESIDENTS ARE OVER THE AGE OF 80. AND THEY'RE SIMPLY NOT CAPABLE OF GOING OUT AND GETTING THESE EVERY OTHER THURSDAY THAT THEY'RE GETTING THROWN OUT. UM, NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IT IS A SAFETY SITUATION FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE TRAVELING AND THEY'VE GOT THESE THINGS JUST SITTING IN THEIR DRIVEWAY, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE DAY PEOPLE SAY, WELL, MAKE SURE YOUR NEIGHBOR GOES AND PICK UP YOUR NEWSPAPER SO THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'RE OUT OF TOWN. UM, I'VE SEEN IT AT THE POLICE STATION. THEY'RE DOING IT AT THE POLICE STATION. THEY WILL SOMETIMES END UP ON THE WALL OR THEY END UP ON THE SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF THE POLICE STATION. I MEAN, JUST, IT'S LITTERING AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S LITTERING BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GETTING TO WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE. THERE IS AN OPT OUT PHONE NUMBER THAT YOU CAN CALL. THEY ACTUALLY DON'T CARE. MM-HMM . WE, I HAVE OPTED MULTIPLE PEOPLE OUT AND THEY STILL GET IT. THE CONTRACTOR HAS NO WAY OF KEEPING UP CORRECT. WITH WHAT HOUSE NOT TO THROW AT. CORRECT. I MEAN, THEY COULD IF THEY CHOOSE TO PUT IN THAT EFFORT, BUT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE. SO AT THIS POINT, IT'S REALLY JUST WHAT DO WE DO TO GET THIS TO STOP? AND I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ARE SALE ADS. THEY SOMETIMES THEY HAVE DECENT COUPONS IN THEM. AND SO THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT IN FACT DO WANT THEM. SOMETIMES I WILL COLLECT THEM AND MAKE A POST ON FACEBOOK, WHOEVER WANTS THEM COME GET THEM BECAUSE THEY WANT THE COUPONS. BUT THE LARGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THEM. THEY DO NOT PICK THEM UP AND WE GOTTA FIGURE OUT SOMETHING. 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S MORE OF A BURDEN THAN ANYTHING AT THIS POINT. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT LOOKS, BUT WHATEVER ANYONE CAN DO TO HELP US GET RID OF THESE BAD BOYS WOULD BE AMAZING. YES. TO 26 5G. UH, SO I CAN SPEAK TO SOME. I'VE, UH, I'VE ACTUALLY SPOKEN WITH THE MANAGER OVER THE VENDOR. I'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH HIM. UM, I'VE ALSO BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE, UH, MARKETING DIRECTOR FOR RR DONNELLEY, WHO'S ACTUALLY, UH, OWNS SAVE.COM. UM, BEEN IN CONTACT WITH BOTH OF THEM, TRYING TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO FOR RESOLUTIONS ON THIS. UM, I WILL STATE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PERMIT THAT COMES OUT FOR ANY KIND OF A COMMERCIAL SOLICITATION COMES OUTTA CHAPTER 26, WHICH IS, UH, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S CHAPTER. SO 26.51, UH, COVERS THE REQUIRED PERMITS. UM, AND THEN TO WHICH YOU STATED A PREVIOUSLY 26 50 3G SPECIFICALLY STATES, AND I'LL, IT'S A LONG PART, SO I'LL PARAPHRASE, BUT NO PERSON SHALL LEAVE ANY UNSOLICITED AND WE'LL SAY MATERIAL. 'CAUSE THERE'S A LONG LIST OF EXAMPLES. UM, AS A RESIDENCE AT A PLACE FURTHER THAN FIVE FEET FROM THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE. UM, SO IN SPEAKING TO ENFORCEMENT OF THAT PARTICULAR ORDINANCE, BEING THAT IT IS PLACED INSIDE OF THE, UH, CHAPTER 26, UM, [01:05:01] WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE ENFORCEMENT RIGHT ON THAT, OF THAT ORDINANCE ITSELF. UM, THE REAL KIND OF COMPLICATION WHEN IT COMES TO A LOT OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE, UH, WOULD LIKE TO THEN CALL LITTER AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, IS THE, UM, THE ENFORCEMENT RIGHT, THAT WE, WE HAVE WHEN IT COMES TO LITTER OR WHEN IT COMES TO TRASH AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, IS WHEN IT STAYS ON A PERSON'S PROPERTY. OR IN ESSENCE THE STREET, WHICH, UH, 32.65 IS THE, UM, RESPONSIBILITY OF ADJOINING PROPERTIES. UM, THAT ENDS UP BEING THE RESPONSIBLE PARTY OF THE PROPERTY OWNER THEMSELVES. OKAY? SO I CAN'T GO FOR THE LITTER THAT'S LEFT IN THE STREET. I PERSONALLY CODE ENFORCEMENT. I, WE CODE ENFORCEMENT. WE CAN'T GO AFTER THE VENDOR THAT'S DOING IT. WE, UH, THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN, THE WAY OUR ENFORCEMENT RIGHTS ARE, ARE WRITTEN, WE CAN ONLY GO AFTER THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH THE VENDOR IN COMMUNICATION WITH THEM. 'CAUSE WE KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT THE ROUTE THAT WE WANT TO GO. WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA GO AFTER THE, THE HOMEOWNERS BECAUSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. UM, SO I CAN'T REALLY SPEAK TO THE ENFORCEMENT ASPECT OF IT. I THINK, I THINK KURT HAS BEEN TALKING WITH SOME ATTORNEYS@SAVE.COM. HE MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO, TO DISCUSS WITH THAT. UM, BUT THERE'S NOT A LOT THAT CODE COMPLIANCE AT THIS POINT IN TIME WITH THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN, THE WAY WE'VE INTERPRETED IT. UM, THERE'S NOT A LOT THAT WE CAN DO AS FAR AS THE ENFORCEMENT OF THAT PARTICULAR PART. UM, WE HAVE, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE, UH, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING THE INFORMATION OUT. MAYBE WE COULD DO SOME, UH, A PUBLIC MEDIA BLAST AS FAR AS THE SAVE DOT COMS, IF Y'ALL WOULD LIKE FOR US TO DO IT THAT WAY. UH, WE LIKE WHEN SYS COME IN, THERE'S AN AUTOMATED RESPONSE THAT KIND OF GIVES THEM THE IDEA OF HOW THEY CAN OPT OUT. AND THEN IF THEY CONTINUE TO HAVE THOSE ISSUES, THEY CAN CONTACT US. BECAUSE PART OF THE AGREEMENT THAT I'VE MADE WITH THE MARKETING MANAGER IS THAT IF I HAVE A LIST OF PROPERTIES THAT ARE HAVING AN ISSUE, I'LL GIVE THOSE TO HIM AND THEN HE CAN GO OUT AND THEN HE'LL, HE'LL HAVE HIS PEOPLE ADDRESS WHAT'S GOING ON. THAT WAY HE CAN HAVE QUALITY CONTROL DIRECTLY OVER HIS VENDOR THAT HE PAYS TO DO THAT SORT OF STUFF. BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE, THEY DO HAVE VERBIAGE IN THEIR CONTRACT, UH, BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES, UM, THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW THE ORDINANCE, FOLLOW YOU AND MAKE SURE THAT IT'S WITHIN THAT FIVE FEET. SO, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THEY'VE BEEN MADE AWARE OVER, I MEAN, SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR THAT THEY'RE IN VIOLATION. SO, AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING TO CORRECT IT. SO THAT'S MY PROBLEM WITH IT. NOW, IF WE NEED TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE WORDING OR WHATEVER, WE WILL DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO. BUT IF PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY CALLED TO OPT OUT, I'VE PERSONALLY CALLED AND MADE THEM AWARE, YOU'RE IN VIOLATION OF OUR CITY ORDINANCE BECAUSE I'M THE ONE GETTING, I CAN SHOW YOU THE, I MEAN, AND I KNOW CHRIS, THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF SOME OF THE EMAILS THAT I GET AND THEY'RE NOT NICE. AND TO SIT AND SAY, OH, WELL TRY TO OPT OUT AGAIN FOR THE 18TH TIME. THAT'S ABSURD. SO AT WHAT POINT DO WE ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. YOU KNOW, LIKE I CAN'T KEEP TELLING PEOPLE WELL TRY TO OPT OUT AGAIN. WE'LL KEEP TRYING TO OPT OUT AGAIN 'CAUSE WE'VE ALREADY GONE THAT ROUTE AND IT DOES NOTHING. THE ONLY TIME THAT I DID NOT GET ONE OF THOSE FLYERS AT THE END OF MY DRIVEWAY WAS WHEN THE LADY SAW ME FOLLOWING HER THROUGH THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD RECORDING. THAT WAS THE ONLY TIME. AND I HAVE CALLED AND CALLED AND CALLED AND CALLED UNTIL I'M BLUE IN THE FACE AND IT DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. SO FOR THE, UH, SCOPE PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO WE NEED TO STAFF NEEDS TO, UH, KIND OF COME BACK TO YOU GUYS WITH, UH, AN IDEA OF WHAT IT'S THAT WE CAN DO YEAH. TO ENFORCE THE YES. IS IT POSSIBLE TO SIMPLY DENY THE PERMIT NEXT TIME THEY COME TO US? SO I, I DON'T WANT TO GET, I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA OVERSTEP MY BOUNDS, RIGHT? I'M, I'M, I, I CAN TELL YOU A LOT ABOUT 32, BUT I DON'T WANT TO REALLY, UH, I CAN TELL YOU WHAT'S 26 SAYS, THE, THE PARTICULAR, UH, PARTS OF THE ORDINANCE THAT I'VE REVIEWED. UM, BUT I DON'T REALLY WANT TO SPEAK TO THE ENFORCEMENT ASPECT OF IT BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER THAT. AND I DUNNO. SO THAT'S PD. YEAH, THAT IS PD. AND I DON'T WANT TO, LIKE I SAID, I DON'T WANNA MISSPEAK ON THAT. LIKE DOES PD EVEN KNOW THAT THEY'RE IN CONTROL OF THIS? I MEAN, NO, I MEAN THAT'S A, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S A LOGICAL YEAH, THEY ISSUE THE PERMIT. I KNOW, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IF I CALL 9 1 1, OR, WELL, I WOULDN'T DO THAT IF I CALLED NON-EMERGENCY. LOOK, SOME DAYS I WANNA CALL 9 1 1. LIKE WHAT IN THE, BUT IF I WERE TO CALL A NON-EMERGENCY, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU WHOEVER ANSWERS THAT PHONE IS ABSOLUTELY, THEY'RE GONNA BE LIKE, OH, UH, WELL, THEY'LL PROBABLY SEND THE MENTAL HEALTH LIAISON TO MY HOUSE . SO THAT'S, AND AND THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT Y'ALL'S FAULT. IT'S NOT [01:10:01] PDS FAULT. THAT'S OUR FAULT FOR THE WAY THAT THE ORDINANCE GOT PUSHED THROUGH. RIGHT? BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THAT HAPPENS SOMETIMES THAT WE MAKE ORDINANCES WITH, WITHOUT THE FULL, FULL THOUGHT PROCESS OF WHO'S GONNA ENFORCE, HOW ARE THEY GONNA ENFORCE OR WHATNOT. SO IF WE NEED TO BRING THIS BACK WITH A PD, UM, WITH SOMEONE FROM PD TO GO OVER THEIR THOUGHT PROCESS OF IT, I MEAN, 'CAUSE WHAT AM I GONNA DO? CALL PD AND BE LIKE, HEY, SO, UH, HEAR ME OUT. I'M FOLLOWING THE AVON, UH, PERSON THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I MEAN, I'M GONNA BE , I'M GONNA BE THE ONE COMMITTED TO THE NET HU. SO IT'S, UM, IT, IT, I IT'S FRUSTRATE. IT'S A MULTIFACETED FRUSTRATION. YOU KNOW, IT, IT MAY BE TOO THAT LIKE WITH OTHER NON-EMERGENCY THINGS, AND EVEN WITH CODE COMPLIANCE, WHEN Y'ALL ARE DOING THE, UM, ENFORCEMENT ON THE, ON THE POPUP BUSINESSES, IT MAY BE TOO THAT HELPING TO ESTABLISH A PATTERN OF WHEN AND WHERE WILL HELP THEM ENFORCE IT. NO, THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA COME IN SIRENS BLAZING FOR THAT PHONE CALL. BUT IF WE CAN ESTABLISH A PATTERN, OH, I'VE GOT THE PATTERN. THAT'S WHAT I MEAN, , I DUNNO IF THEY HAVE IT. AND I DON'T KNOW, BUT I'M, I'M, AND I, LIKE CHRIS SAYS, I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK FOR PD, BUT I, I WOULD, I KNOW THAT FROM PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS ABOUT OTHER THINGS THAT THAT'S VERY HELPFUL TO THEM. THAT AS LONG AS WE KEEP ON THEM, KEEP THEM INFORMED WHAT THE PATTERN IS, THEN THEY CAN, THEY CAN START, IT MAKES ENFORCEMENT MORE EFFECTIVE FOR THEM BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO, TO HOST A POLICEMAN, YOU KNOW, AT SOME STREET HOPING SOMEONE COMES BY. THAT'S NOT A GOOD USE OF THE RESOURCES, BUT TARGETED ENFORCEMENT, THAT THAT MAY BE PART OF IT. SO YES, WE WILL ABSOLUTELY BRING POLICE DEPARTMENT IN FOR, FOR THE, FOR THE NEXT DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM SINCE THEY'RE, THEY'RE CLEARLY, UM, CLEARLY POINT ON THIS. AND, UM, I THINK, I THINK CHRIS WILL HELP ME WITH THAT. UM, THEN HIS INTERPRETATION IS, DO WE HAVE A, DO WE HAVE A, DO WE THINK WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA ON THIS ONE? IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE MISSED? I THINK THAT'S, OH YEAH, WE DID MAKE YOU COME ALL THE WAY DOWN HERE, SIR. LOOK, I'LL EVEN GO THERE. WOO. WHAT'S GOING ON? ? I, AND I KNOW BRIAN AND I HAVE HAD EMAILS UPON EMAILS UPON EMAILS ABOUT IT. YES. UM, AND THINK THEY ALL END UP OVER THERE. YEAH. BUT WELL, YOU KNOW, WE, WE GET THE ANGRY ONES. I'VE HAD PEOPLE OFFER TO DROP A LOAD OF THEM IN MY DRIVEWAY. I I MEAN, THAT'S FINE. DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. BUT THEY P**S ME OFF JUST AS MUCH AS THEY P**S EVERYONE ELSE OFF. SO. WELL, AND, AND I WILL SAY THE, THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT I'VE EVER ACTUALLY BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO GET THE INFORMATION TO THE, THE MARKETING MANAGER IS THE ADDRESSES THAT YOU GAVE ME. AND THEN WE HAD ONE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL THAT WAS, UM, REALLY, REALLY UPSET. MM-HMM . UNDERSTANDABLY, UM, UPSET WITH ALWAYS GETTING THESE, AND I GAVE THEM THAT ADDRESSES. SO IN IN, IN TRUTH, I'VE ONLY EVER BEEN ABLE TO GIVE THE MARKETING MANAGER THREE DIFFERENT ACCESS. YEAH. NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT. I TO MAKE SURE. SO I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ELSE. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW KURT BESKI, I'M WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. UM, I ALSO LIVE IN GARLAND. AND SO THIS MADE ME ANGRY, WELL BEFORE I STARTED GETTING EMAILS ABOUT IT, , BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE, I, I KNOW YOU KNOW BETTER. YEP. UM, WE DID GET, WE ONE IN INDIVIDUAL IN PARTICULAR HAS BEEN RATHER VOCAL ABOUT THIS. UH, AFTER WE PICKED IT UP, UH, DID SOME RESEARCH INTO WHO WAS DOING, AND IT WAS THE SAVE.COM PEOPLE. UH, RR DONNELLEY, I THINK HE ALREADY MENTIONED. WE SENT A LETTER, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT A LOT OF HOPE THAT IT WOULD GET ANYTHING. UH, I DID GET A CALL BACK FROM SOMEBODY WHO, UH, WORKED IN THEIR LEGAL DEPARTMENT, AN ATTORNEY THAT WORKED IN THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT. AND, UH, OF COURSE SHE MORE OR LESS PLAYED DUMB. UH, YOU KNOW, WELL, WELL, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO THIS. WELL, THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT. UH, AND 'CAUSE ESSENTIALLY THERE'S, THERE'S AT LEAST FOUR DIFFERENT PROBLEMS WITH, WITH THE SAVE.COM, UH, ONE DELIVERING TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE OPTED OUT TWO, DELIVERING TO VACANT ADDRESSES. UH, THIRD WAS, UH, NOT PUTTING IT WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE FRONT DOOR. AND THEN THE FOURTH IS, UH, DELIVERING TO ADDRESSES THAT HAD NO SOLICITATION SIGNS. AND SO I KIND OF EXPLAINED THAT TO HER THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF PROBLEMS. SHE SAYS, WELL, THEY'RE NOT THROWING IT IN THE STREET. AT WHICH POINT, I MEAN, THE TIMING COULDN'T HAVE BEEN BETTER. LITERALLY THAT MORNING WHEN I WENT OUT TO GET IN MY CAR, THERE WAS ONE OUT AT MY CURB I'D TAKEN A PICTURE OF AND I SENT IT TO HER AND I SAID, I CAN TELL YOU IT'S HAPPENED TO ME. 'CAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME TODAY. YEAH. AND SO THE WAY THEY [01:15:01] HANDLE THIS IS THEY HAVE DISTRIBUTORS WHO ARE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE, ARE GONNA BE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE UNDER THE WAY IT'S STRUCTURED NOW TO BE THE PEOPLE WHO GET THE PERMIT TO BE ABLE TO DISTRIBUTE. AND THESE PEOPLE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO ANYTHING. NOW. THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GETTING A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM SAVE.COM TO, TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN, HEY, WE GOT ANOTHER COMPLAINT. UH, BEST I CAN TELL, THEY'RE NOT GETTING ANY PRESSURE THERE. THERE'S NO, I GUESS LACK OF A BETTER TERM PUNISHMENT THAT THEY FACE IF THEY DO THIS. UH, AND THE WAY IT'S SET UP WITH THE PERMITTING NOW, IT WOULD BE THE DISTRIBUTOR WHO WOULD GET IN TROUBLE FOR IT, NOT SAVE.COM. SO, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. WE, WE MAY WANNA LOOK AT, UH, A COUPLE OF THINGS, UH, FROM THE ORDINANCE SIDE OF THINGS, AND THAT WOULD BE, UH, TO FIGURE OUT IF WE CAN INDEED TAG THE ULTIMATE, UH, COMPANY WITH RESPONSIBILITY TAG SAVE.COM, NOT THE DISTRIBUTOR NECESSARILY. UM, BECAUSE I, AS IT'S SET UP NOW, WHAT COULD HAPPEN IS THE DISTRIBUTOR VIOLATES THIS. WE EITHER TICKET THE DISTRIBUTOR, UH, OR PERHAPS YANK THE PERMIT FOR THE DISTRIBUTOR. AND THE DISTRIBUTOR PROBABLY CONTINUES TO DISTRIBUTE EVEN WITHOUT A PERMIT. MM-HMM . UM, IF THERE WAS, WE DON'T, THE WAY IT'S STRUCTURED NOW, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT. AND IT MAY BE DIFFICULT FOR REASONS THAT, BECAUSE I DIDN'T LOOK AT IT AS FAR AS THE ORDINANCE ITSELF, WHEN WE PUT IT IN MAY BE DIFFICULT. IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY HOLD SAVE.COM RESPONSIBLE. I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW. BUT WE PROBABLY WANNA LOOK AT THAT AND SEE IF THERE'S SOME WAY WE CAN GET THE ULTIMATE, UH, HIGHER UPS, UM, THE HIGHER THE MAIN COMPANY TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. AND I DON'T KNOW, IT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE. UH, WE MAY BE LEFT WITH JUST ENFORCEMENT AGAINST THE DISTRIBUTORS. YOU, YOU KNOW, PULLING THE PERMITS, THINGS LIKE THAT. UH, WE MAY WANNA ALSO LOOK AT THE ORDINANCE TO GIVE THE ABILITY, UH, BECAUSE AS IT'S NOW, AS HE SAYS IN CHAPTER 26, IT'S A PD MATTER, UH, TO GIVE SOME ENFORCEMENT ABILITY, UH, TO CODE. UM, AND, AND, AND TARGET THE, THE DISTRIBUTORS. 'CAUSE I I'M WITH YOU. I, I GO OUT AND YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT THEY'VE DONE. THEY JUST DRIVE BY AND THEY'RE HITTING EVERY HOUSE. THEY, IF THEY HAVE A LIST, THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE LIST OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET IT. IT, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING TO SEE IF THE HOUSES ARE OCCUPIED. THEY'RE CERTAINLY NOT GETTING CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE FRONT DOOR TO SEE THAT NO SOLICITATION SIGN. AND I EXPLAINED TO THE LAWYER THAT ABOUT THE NO SOLICITATION, BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT ANGLE THAN, THAN THE JUST YOU'RE NOT DOING RIGHT. UH, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO PUT IT THERE. AND I SAID, THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE HAVE THAT FIVE FOOT REQUIREMENT IS BECAUSE YOU GOTTA GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE FRONT DOOR TO SEE THAT SIGN, OR YOU DON'T KNOW THAT SIGN EXISTS BECAUSE THE, YOU KNOW, THE NO SOLICITATION GOES AROUND YOUR DOOR. AND SHE PROFESSED TO HEAR WHAT I WAS SAYING AND THAT SHE WOULD TALK TO THE, THE, I THINK THE GUY YOU GOT THE NAME FOR DOWN HERE, THE REGIONAL MANAGER OR WHATEVER HE CALLS HIMSELF. AND THEN SHE WOULD TALK TO HIM TO MAKE SURE THAT WITH SHE FOLLOWED, I GOT OFF THAT CONVERSATION WITH NO CONFIDENCE THAT ANYTHING WAS GONNA CHANGE. YEAH. SHE SAID THE RIGHT THINGS. BUT I I, I WOULDN'T GETTING SINCERITY OUT OF HER. YEAH. I MEAN, I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE US TO LOOK INTO, I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULD LOOK, BUT I, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO TELL THEM, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DROP IN OUR CITY ANYMORE. IF YOU WANT THE FLYERS TO GO OUT, THEN YOU DO WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE DOES AND YOU PAY TO HAVE THEM MAILED. LIKE, 'CAUSE 'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES. YEAH. I MEAN, IF, IF YOU CAN MEAN IT'S CLEAR THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES. YEAH. SO I, I WOULD LIKE OUR, I WOULD LIKE TO AMEND OUR ORDINANCE ONE TO GIVE CODE SOME IF NOT ALL AUTHORITY OVER IT. UM, AND THEN FIGURE OUT HOW WE FIND THE PANTS OFF OF THEM. STILL. WE'RE, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED THEM TO DISTRIBUTE IN THE CITY UNLESS IT'S THROUGH THE MAIL. BECAUSE PEOPLE, PEOPLE ARE GONNA, IF THEY DON'T WANT IT AND IT COMES IN THE MAIL, JUST LIKE OUR CITY PRESS, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER FLYER, THEN PEOPLE ARE GONNA PUT IT IN A RECYCLE. BEEN NO HARM, NO FOUL. BUT THE WAY THAT IT'S GOING NOW IS, IT'S RIDICULOUS. SO WHEN THESE FLYERS WERE DISTRIBUTED THROUGH DALLAS MORNING NEWS, DALLAS MORNING NEWS IS THE ONE THAT ACTUALLY CONTRACTED WITH THE US POSTAL SERVICE THAT ANYONE THAT DIDN'T, THAT GOT THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, THE FLYERS WERE IN THE MAIL, IN THE PAPER. MM-HMM . THOSE WHO DID NOT GET THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, THEY GOT IT IN THE MAIL THAT CAME THROUGH DALLAS MORNING NEWS WHEN COVID HAPPENED, AND A LOT OF THE COUPONS QUIT BEING PRINTED AND STARTED GOING DIGITAL DALLAS MORNING NEWS MADE THAT DECISION THEN [01:20:01] TO DISCONTINUE DISTRIBUTING THOSE FLYERS. SO WHEN THAT HAPPENED, THE MAIL OPTION WENT AWAY. UM, BECAUSE DALLAS MORNING NEWS WAS THE, WHO WAS DOING THAT? SOME MAGICAL FORMULA. I DON'T KNOW HOW, BUT I WORKED FOR DALLAS MORNING NEWS. SO IT WAS THIS, IF YOU GOT THE PAPER, IT WENT IN YOUR PAPER. IF YOU DIDN'T GET THE PAPER, IT CAME IN THE MAIL. A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT IT BOTH WAYS BECAUSE THEY HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING WHICH PAPERS NOT TO PUT IT IN. UM, BUT I DON'T SEE WHY THIS COMPANY CAN'T GO BACK TO PAYING TO HAVE IT MAILED BECAUSE OH, I'M SURE IT'S, THEY WERE PAYING DALLAS MORNING NEWS TO PAY TO HAVE THE MAILED. I DON'T THINK IT'S A MATTER OF CAN YEAH. IT'S A MATTER OF WANT TO YEAH. YEAH. AND I'M SURE IT'S CHEAPER TO PAY SOMEONE $7 AN HOUR TO DRIVE THROUGH A NEIGHBORHOOD AND DROP 'EM OUT THE WINDOW, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT, IT CAN'T FLY. LIKE THIS IS ABSURD. I, I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS MM-HMM . AND I HAVEN'T CHIMED IN BECAUSE THIS IS, NOBODY HAS REPORTED THIS PROBLEM TO ME. SO IT'S NOT ONE I'M TOTALLY FAMILIAR WITH AS FAR AS THE FRUSTRATION LEVEL. UM, MY QUESTION WOULD BE, I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I MEAN, I'VE HEARD ONE COMPANY MENTIONED AVON. I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYBODY ANY OTHER COMPANIES MENTIONED, BUT LIKE, I GET, LIKE I GET, YOU KNOW, THE TREE TRIMMERS BUSINESS CARDS IN MY DOOR AND THAT KIND OF STUFF. RIGHT. BUT THE ONES IN, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY ALWAYS JUST PUT 'EM ON THE DOOR. YEAH. THEY DON'T THROW 'EM IN THE YARD. RIGHT. UM, AND I HAVEN'T HAD COMPLAINTS ABOUT THAT, SO I'M NOT TOTALLY FAMILIAR WITH THIS ISSUE. MM-HMM . UM, MY QUESTION IS, UM, AND I DON'T WANT TO GO TO EXTREMES HERE IF THERE'S A, A POSITIVE TO THIS, BUT IS THERE ANY BENEFIT TO THE CITIZENS OF GARLAND, OF HAVING THIS PRACTICE OF FLYERS BEING THROWN IN A YARD? I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A BENEFIT TO OUR CITIZENS. IF THERE IS, IF SOMEBODY COULD POINT THAT OUT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. BECAUSE IF THERE IS NO BENEFIT TO OUR CITIZENS, THEN THAT POSES THE QUESTION, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD OR SHOULD OUTLAW ALTOGETHER? I WOULD BE A HUNDRED PERCENT OUTLAWING IT ALTOGETHER. OKAY. UM, I, AND I THINK THAT, I THINK EVERYONE IN THE CITY AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER GETS LAWN CARE, TREE TRIMMING, WHATEVER THINGS POST, LIKE TIED OR TAPED TO YOUR DOOR OR WHATEVER. I'M FINE WITH THAT BECAUSE I'M ALREADY AT MY DOOR. RIGHT. I'M ALREADY AT MY DOOR. I CAN PULL IT OFF AND THROW IT AWAY. RIGHT. YEAH. LIKE IT, IN THE EVENT I'VE, I'VE HAD SOME THAT ARE LIKE, THROW FLYERS, YOU KNOW, ON THE FRONT PORCH. I WILL CALL YOU AND LET YOU KNOW. LIKE THAT'S, THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO GET BUSINESS. BUT THESE ARE, THESE ARE LIKE THE SMALL LITTLE BABY NEWSPAPERS AND THEY'RE IN THE ROAD. I HAVE, I HAVE VIDEO LITERALLY OF THEM DRIVING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD AND JUST DROPPING THEM. THERE'S NOT EVEN THROWING, IT'S JUST FLU. LIKE THE MOST HAPHAZARD JUST DROPPING THEM OUT OF THE WINDOW DOWN. DO WE STILL HAVE, 'CAUSE I KNOW THERE USED TO BE LIKE THE FREE WHATEVER, SOME FREE ADVERTISEMENT PAPERS, YOU KNOW, THEY'D ALWAYS MM-HMM . LIKE THE GREEN SHEET PAPER IN A BAG AND STUFF. YOU HAD TO, ARE THOSE, DO THOSE STILL EXIST? ARE PEOPLE STILL DOING THOSE? THE, THE SAVE.COM FORMAT IS, IT LOOKS LIKE THE NEWSPAPER INSERTS YOU. YOU'VE, BUT IT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS NEWSPRINT, THAT KIND OF THING. IT'S IN THE NEWSPAPER LIKE BAG. OKAY. BUT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T, HAS A NEWSPAPER WITH IT, IT, WHEN THROWN OUT THE WINDOW, IT MAKES IT ABOUT A FOOT AND A HALF, IF ANY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THERE'S NO WEIGHT TO IT. SO COULD WE EITHER, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY EITHER, YOU KNOW, GET RID OF THESE TYPES OF SOLICITATIONS ALTOGETHER OR MAKE A REQUIREMENT THAT IT HAS TO BE ATTACHED TO A SOLID SURFACE, SUCH AS THE FRONT DOOR. UM, AND THAT WOULD KEEP THINGS FROM BLOWING AWAY HOW LONG ALL TOGETHER WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT TO SEE, UH, YOU RUN INTO FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES THERE. UH, WHY THESE, WHY THE, THE GENERAL FORMAT OF SOME OF THESE APPEARS TO BE A NEWSPAPER IS ONE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE USING THE SAME FACILITIES TO PRINT IT. AND TWO, A LOT OF TIMES WHAT THEY'LL DO, AND I AND I CHECK THE SAVE.COM, THEY DO NOT DO IT. WHAT THEY'LL DO IS THEY'LL HAVE ONE LITTLE OPINION ARTICLE IN THERE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO MAKE IT A FREE PRESS, UH, YOU KNOW, FREEDOM OF THE PRESS TYPE THING. AND SO IT BECOMES VERY DIFFICULT TO, TO CRAFT SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T CROSS THAT LINE OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT. BUT WHAT WE'VE DONE IS, IS WHAT IN ESSENCE, UH, UH, A TIME PLACE MANNER TYPE OF THING. AND THAT'S THE, THESE, THAT'S THE FIVE FOOT WITHIN, WE HAD FIVE FEET OF THE FRONT DOOR, OR OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE SAYS THEY HAVE TO PUT IT WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE FRONT DOOR. WE DON'T HAVE AN ATTACHMENT TO THE DOOR TYPE, UH, REQUIREMENT. BUT CAN, CAN WE, WE COULD LOOK INTO THAT BECAUSE I, I MEAN, I, I THINK IT WOULD BE THE SAME TYPE OF RESTRICTION THAT IF WE CAN RESTRICT 'EM WITHIN FIVE FEET, WE COULD SAY NO, YOU HAVE TO TUCK IT IN THE FRONT DOOR. MM-HMM . AND, AND I, AND LIKE I SAID, WE ALSO HAVE OUR NO SOLICITATION. IF YOU [01:25:01] HAVE NO SOLICITATIONS TIME, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO NOT LEAVE IT AT ALL. UH, MY EXPERIENCE WITH THAT HAS BEEN THE PEOPLE WITH THE FLYERS DON'T QUITE, AND NOT, NOT NECESSARILY THE SAVE.COM, BUT THE PEOPLE WITH THE TRUE TRIMMING, THE LAWN MOWING, THEY'RE NOT QUITE AWARE OF THAT EITHER. UH, THAT NO SOLICITATION MEANS I DON'T WANNA SEE YOUR PAPERWORK EITHER. UM, BUT SO, BUT WE COULD LOOK INTO TIGHTENING THAT UP A LITTLE AS FAR AS WHERE THEY HAVE TO PLACE FLYERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UH, IF WE, IF WE CAN'T SATISFY OURSELVES THAT CAN WE JUST SAY YOU CAN'T DO IT AT ALL. BUT I KNOW WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT IN THE PAST. I'VE NOT BEEN PART OF THAT LOOKING AT IT. AND THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION CAME WITH THE, WHERE THEY PLACE IT TYPE RESTRICTIONS. SO SOMETHING TELLS ME WE'RE GONNA RUN INTO SOME LEGAL HURDLES. YEAH. UH, AS FAR AS, AS FAR AS JUST SAYING CAN'T DO IT AT ALL. OKAY. UH, BECAUSE I KNOW FROM A, FROM AN ORDINANCE STANDPOINT, THAT'S CERTAINLY EASIER TO DRAFT THAN COMING UP WITH SOMETHING THAT ALLOWS 'EM TO DO THIS, BUT NOT THAT. YEP. JUST SAYING DON'T DO IT AT ALL. THAT'S, THAT'S EASY. THAT WOULD BE THE EASY BUTTON. YEP. LOOK, WE BANNED ICE CREAM TRUCKS. I FEEL LIKE WE CAN DO THIS. ICE CREAM TRUCKS SHOULD BE FREE SPEECH. ACCESS TO ICE CREAM CONES. YES. . PERFECT. PERFECT. SO YOU GUYS WANNA COME BACK IN NOVEMBER OR DECEMBER? HOW LONG DO YOU THINK YOU NEED? YES, WE'RE NOT FIRST YEAR. UH, JANUARY. SAY JANUARY. PERFECT. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GIVE Y'ALL EXTRA WORK FOR CHRISTMAS. PERFECT. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING MR. SLAY? I THINK ALSO EXPLAIN TO THE WOMAN THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST FOR THE RECORD, UH, THROWING IT OUT IN THE STREET WHERE IT GETS WET, I'VE, I'VE NOT YET ONCE OPENED IT TO EVEN SEE WHAT'S IN IT. SO IT'S NOT VERY EFFECTIVE. . YEAH. YEAH, YEAH. THAT'S, THAT'S THE THING, RIGHT? THE PEOPLE THROWING 'EM OUT, THEY, THEY DON'T CARE. NO, THEY DON'T. I MEAN, THEY TRULY DON'T. WELL, ONCE IT'S BEEN RUN OVER, IT'S, YOU CAN'T READ IT ANYWAY. 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S GROSS. SO, YEAH. AND IF IT'S NOT WET, IT'S BLOWN, YOU KNOW? YEAH. AWAY BECAUSE IT CATCHES AIR REALLY, REALLY WELL. YEAH. IT'S LIKE A LITTLE, UH, PARACHUTE. SO. PERFECT. I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS. AND UH, I KNOW IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT AN EASY ONE, BUT I HAVE FAITH THAT WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT. PERFECT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND AT 1133, WITH THAT BEING OUR LAST 11 WHAT? 1131 . THAT WAS OUR LAST ITEM. AND WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. 11 1 3. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.