[00:00:03]
OKAY, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND START AND THEN, UM, WHEN ANDY SHOULD BE BACK BY THE TIME WE'RE DONE.
AND IF NOT, WE'LL TAKE A LITTLE, A LITTLE PAUSE.
WELCOME TO THE JANUARY 6TH, 2026 DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE MEETING.
I AM MAYOR PROTO MARGARET LUT, JOINED BY COUNCILMAN JEFF BASS AND COUNCILMAN JOE THOMAS JR.
UH, WE'RE GONNA JUMP RIGHT INTO THE AGENDA AND I WOULD LIKE TO GET APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM OUR NOVEMBER 4TH, 2025 MEETING.
I DO NOT SEE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE.
DO WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP? COURTNEY? NO, MA'AM.
ITEM THREE ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION PROCESS FOR DETERMINING VAPE SHOPS VERSUS SMOKE SHOPS.
AND WE HAVE OUR BUILDING INSPECTOR AL HERE TO GIVE US THE RUNDOWN, SIR.
AL RAYMOND STANDING IN FOR SEAN WEINSTEIN.
THIS, WE SHOULD BE HERE, BUT I'M TAKING A BULLET FOR HIM.
UM, THIS, UH, UH, IF, UH, WHEN THIS WAS BROUGHT UP, UH, AT THE LAST MEETING, THIS IS REALLY JUST A SCOPING DISCUSSION.
I'VE, UH, I'VE PUT SOME THINGS TOGETHER THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT COLLECTIVELY.
I'VE, I'VE MADE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS TO SHARE WITH YOU.
AND THEN FROM THERE WE CAN SEE WHAT WE WANNA DO NEXT.
RIGHT? SO, SMOKE SHOPS AND VAPE SHOPS.
SO FIRST, UH, THIS IS JUST STRAIGHT OUT OF THE, THE GDC.
WHAT I'D LIKE TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF IS THAT, UH, IN THE LAND USE MATRIX, UH, SMOKE SHOPS ARE ONLY ALLOWED IN INDUSTRIAL AREAS WITHIN AN SUP.
IF YOU READ THE, AND RIGHT UNDER IT, IT'S SMOKE SHOPS.
UH, AND IT'S, IT SAYS THERE SHALL BE A, A REPUTABLE, UH, PRESUMPTION THAT TACO, UH, TOBACCO STORES ARE OPERATING AS SMOKE SHOPS WHEN TOBACCO PRODUCTS IN THEIR ORIGINAL MANUFACTURED PACKAGE MAKE UP LESS THAN 75%.
NOW, NOTICE THAT DEFINITION, BUT IF YOU GO TO THE BOTTOM OF THE DEFINITION OF SMOKE SHOPS, THE LAST SENTENCE SAYS THIS DEFINITION DOES NOT INCLUDE IN C CATEGORICALLY EXCLUDES COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENTS THAT DERIVE MORE THAN 7% OF THEIR REVENUE, UH, BY THE SAME KINDS OF PROJECTS.
SO MAYBE WE NEED TO CLEAN UP THE DEFINITION IN NABILA, AS MENTIONED THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, HOW WE MOVE FORWARD.
BUT THE, ONE OF THE THINGS, WHAT DID I REALLY WANTED TO MENTION TO YOU ON THE LAND USE MATRIX, 'CAUSE THERE'S NO MENTION OF, AND WE OFTEN SAY TOBACCO SHOPS OR VAPE SHOPS, THERE'S, THAT'S NOT EVEN IN THE GDC, THAT'S JUST A TERM THAT WE USE.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I, UH, AND, AND HERE'S SOME DEFINITIONS FROM THE HEALTH CODE, RIGHT? UH, IT TALKS ABOUT RETAIL, UH, ELECTRONIC VAPING, RETAIL TOBACCO STORES, AND, AND OF COURSE SMOKING AND SMOKE AND TOBACCO PRODUCTS.
BUT THIS, THESE DEFINITIONS DO NOT APPEAR IN THE GDC.
SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO, OR WHAT I SUGGEST THAT WE SHOULD DO IS TO, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF COMBINE THE DEFINITION OF A SMOKE SHOP IN A VAPE SHOP.
'CAUSE THERE, THERE IS NO VAPE SHOP.
EVERYTHING IS REALLY JUST A SMOKE SHOP, RIGHT? BUT WE HAVE TO MY GROUP AND WHOEVER THAT MAY BE, CODE AND COMPLIANCE OR WHATEVER, HAS TO GO INTO SOME ESTABLISHMENTS AND VERIFY THAT THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, 75%.
AND WHAT I LIKE TO DO IS SAY OF, OF THE INVENTORY, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, LEDGERS AND COST SHEETS AND THAT KIND OF THING.
THAT'S JUST NOT KIND OF WHAT WE DO.
RIGHT? AND EVEN FROM A STAMP SAYING PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, EVEN GOING IN AND COUNTING INVENTORY OF BOXES OF CIGARETTES OR WHATEVER IS STILL NOT KIND OF WHAT WE DO, BUT SOMEONE HAS TO DO IT.
AND I'M NOT COMPLAINING THAT WE, BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND.
SO, UH, THE GEC REGULATIONS, UH, SMOKE SHOPS, THIS IS THE SECOND PARAGRAPH.
AND THEY ARE ONLY PERMITTED IN INDUSTRIAL AREAS.
AS I SAID EARLIER, ACCORDING TO OUR, OUR LAND USE MATRIX.
UM, UH, IF THEY'RE, IF THE RET, SORRY, LAND USE MATRIX, UH, AND TRUE TOBACCO SHOPS ARE ESSENTIALLY RETAIL, RETAIL SHOPS.
AND I SHOULD HAVE SAID RETAIL STORES BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S IN OUR DEFINITION, AND THAT'S WHAT'S ON THE LAND USE MATRIX.
IF THEIR PRODUCT INVENTORY IS MAINTAINED IN A LEVEL OF 75% OR ABOVE, THEN THAT'S A RETAIL STORE, WHATEVER, WHETHER THEY SELL CIGARETTES OR HATS OR T-SHIRTS OR WHATEVER, I WOULD SUGGEST WE UPDATE THE GDC TO, TO, UH, AND TO CLASSIFY VAPE SHOPS IN THE, THE SAME AS SMOKE SHOPS.
OR ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING WE SHOULD JUST REALLY COMBINE THE DEFINITION
[00:05:01]
AND JUST CALL IT SMOKE SHOPS.WE, WE CAN, UH, I I THINK IT'LL, IT, IT'LL ELIMINATE A LOT OF CONFUSION GOING FORWARD.
ADDITIONALLY, PLANNING DEPARTMENT HAS RECOMMENDED THAT WE UPDATE THE DEFINITION TO SMOKE SHOPS, KIND OF WHAT I JUST SAID EARLIER, UH, AND TO INCLUDE V SHOCK COMPONENTS, WHICH I THINK IS AN EXCELLENT IDEA.
AND THIS WOULD ELIMINATE KIND OF CONFUS ME, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO US DOING THE ENFORCEMENT.
AND THE VERY LAST THING I SUGGESTED THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T DO IT NOW, RIGHT? BUT WE NEED TO ESTABLISH SOME WAY OF THAT WE CAN BE EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE.
WE CAN GET IN AND GET OUT WITHOUT SPENDING A LOT OF TIME, YOU KNOW, BECOMING STOCK MANAGERS OR WHATEVER.
SO, UH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO ESTABLISH MOVING FORWARD IF, IF INDEED THIS IS THE DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO.
BUT THAT'S, THIS IS KIND OF A, A SCOPING EXERCISE IN HERE.
MY IDEAS KIND OF IN HOW WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD AND, UH, STANDBY FOR ANY QUESTIONS, SUGGESTIONS.
UM, I'LL APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION.
UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M ANY LESS CONFUSED THOUGH,
UM, I GUESS MY FIRST QUESTION WOULD BE, SO MARGARET, YOU BROUGHT THIS FORWARD.
UM, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT, WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE? UM, THERE ARE MANY VAPE SHOPS AND TOBACCO SHOPS THAT ARE SELLING, UH, GLASS PIPES, UH, THAT ARE PROBABLY MAYBE NOT USED FOR TOBACCO SMOKING.
UM, AND ADVERTISE THOSE HEAVILY.
UH, THEY POP UP EVERYWHERE AND THEY'RE IN, I THINK THERE'S ONE IN LIKE EVERY SINGLE SHOPPING CENTER IN DISTRICT FIVE.
UM, AND ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY BOTHERS ME ABOUT THEM IS THAT WHEN THEY'RE OPEN REALLY LATE, THEY'RE, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST, THERE'S A REASON THAT WE HAVE THEM IN INDUSTRIAL AREAS.
AND, UH, THAT'S REALLY WHAT I WANTED TO LOOK AT BECAUSE SOME OF THE, THE, LIKE, THERE'S ONE ON NORTHWEST HIGHWAY AND THEY HAVE, UM, LARGE, UH, QUOTE UNQUOTE TOBACCO SMOKING, UH, APPARATUS,
LIKE ON THE WINDOWS, ADVERTISING THEM ON THE WINDOWS.
AND THEIR WHOLE STORE IS FULL OF GLASS PIPES AND ALL OF THAT.
SO, UM, BUT, AND SO NOT TO INTERRUPT, BUT IF A SMOKE SHOP AND I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL THE SAME, THAT MEANS THAT THERE'S SMOKING THERE, RIGHT? YOU LIKE A HOOKAH LOUNGE OR SOMETHING, RIGHT? SO, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW.
THAT WAS ANOTHER QUESTION I WAS GONNA HAVE IS WHAT, WHAT DOES ALL THIS, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US KNOW HOW ANY OF THESE ARE REALLY RIGHT IFIED, RIGHT? 'CAUSE IT SAYS ON HERE ALSO IT SAYS, UM, MADE UP LESS THAN 75% OF INVENTORY IS A SMOKE SHOP.
SO, I MEAN, SO THAT, AND THAT'S MY QUESTION, RIGHT? SO ARE YOU SAYING A SMOKE SHOP IS A PLACE WHERE SOMEBODY GOES FOR THE PHYSICAL ACT OF SMOKING? SMOKING AS OPPOSED TO, I WOULD SAY, BASED ON THE DEFINITION, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S NOT VERY CLEAR, RIGHT? MM-HMM
SO, YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS WHAT, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS, UM, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT AS A COMMITTEE WE COME UP WITH, UH, A FINITE OBJECTIVE AND THEN LET THE CITY PUT ALL OF THESE THINGS TOGETHER.
YOU KNOW, SMOKE, VAPE, TOBACCO.
IF WE HAVE A, IF WE HAVE A IF DEFINITE OBJECTIVE, IT'S GONNA MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO GO THROUGH ALL THIS AND MAKE IT LOOK HOW WE WANT IT TO LOOK, RIGHT? I MEAN, 'CAUSE I DON'T LIKE, THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING WHAT THE OBJECTIVE IS.
I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF SMOKE SHOPS, VAPE SHOPS.
I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF A STORE OPEN JUST STRICTLY FOR SELLING NICOTINE PRODUCTS, WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL THOSE.
UM, BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT, ONE, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOOD FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR KIDS TO GET HOOKED ON VAPING AND SMOKING AND TWO, BECAUSE THERE ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, MERCHANDISE OF DRUG PARAPHERNALIA.
AND I DON'T THINK WE AS A CITY NEED TO BE PROMOTING THOSE THINGS.
AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE ARE MY, THOSE ARE MY OBJECTIONS TO THEM.
EVEN EXISTING, I HAVE THE SAME COUNCILMAN SENSE TO ME.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE CLEARLY ADVERTISING WITH A WINK BY PUTTING A PAINTING A GIANT BONG IN THEIR FRONT WINDOW.
UH, YOU KNOW, AND SO THAT'S, YES.
AND SO, UH, THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THAT KIND OF THING.
WE, UH, IS THERE SOME WAY TO LIMIT WHAT THEY CAN ADVERTISE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING? THAT KIND OF THING? 'CAUSE THEY'RE, I, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT 'EM, I'VE GOT 'EM IN MY DISTRICT TOO.
AND THEY'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY'RE IN LITTLE STRIP MALLS THAT ARE IN PLACES LIKE THAT.
SO, BUT YOU REALIZE FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, IF THERE'S, IF THEY'RE PUTTING THESE THINGS ON DISPLAY, ON THE GLASS, WHATEVER, THEY'RE STILL JUST SELLING PRODUCT.
[00:10:01]
I'M, I'M NOT SAYING, AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS RIGHT OR WRONG, I'M JUST, JUST GIVING MY OPINION, THEY'RE STILL JUST SELLING PRODUCTS.SO IT'S STILL A RETAIL STORE, RIGHT? YEP.
IF THEY, IF THEY PARTAKE IN THE SMOKING AT THIS LOCATION AS WELL, NOW IT, IT PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE IN THIS, IN, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY RETAIL OR WHATEVER.
IT PROBABLY SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND NOW CODE CODE ENFORCEMENT CAN GO CODE COMPLIANCE CAN GO IN AND BEGIN TO, TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE MEASURE OF THIS.
RIGHT? BUT, BUT KEEP IN MIND WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, IF THEY'RE DISPLAYING STUFF, AND IT'S NOT AN SOB, IT'S JUST A RETAIL STORE IN THEORY, RIGHT? BUT IT DOES SAY HERE, UM, A COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT TO WHICH THE PUBLIC IS ADMITTED OR INVITED TO WHICH, UM, AS IT'S PRINCIPLE BUSINESS PUR PURPOSE OFFERS FOR SALE DISTRIBUTION OR EXCHANGE FOR ANY FORM OF CONSIDERATION, ANY ITEMS, INSTRUMENTS, DEVICES, EQUIPMENT, ACCESSORIES, OR PRODUCTS THAT ARE INTENDED OR DESIGNED OR MARKETED FOR USE IN THE SMOKING OR INHALING OF ANY SUBSTANCE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO TOBACCO.
SO THESE ARE HEALTH CODE, THIS IS THE G-D-C-G-D-C HEALTH CODES ON HEALTH CODE DEFINITIONS ARE HERE.
SO WE DO ALREADY HAVE THAT IN THE G CODE.
SO THAT'S WHERE MY CONFUSION WAS.
AND THEN, UM, WHEN, WHEN THESE SHOPS OPEN, THEY'RE GIVEN A, UM, LIKE A LITTLE QUESTIONNAIRE THAT SAYS, WHAT IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SELL? AND THAT BASICALLY DETERMINES WHAT KIND OF SHOP THEY ARE, RETAIL, TOBACCO, OR SMOKE SHOP.
AND, UM, AND I, I MEAN, THEY CAN CHECK OFF WHATEVER THEY WANT.
LIKE MANY OF YOU'RE SAYING YOUR DISTRICTS, YEAH, THEY'LL, THEY MAY COME IN AND SAY, OH, I'M A TOBACCO STORE.
OR LET'S SAY A RETAIL STORE, BUT THEN THEY CONVERT TO SOMETHING ELSE.
YOU KNOW, IN THEORY, MY GROUP DOESN'T NECESSARILY GO FOLLOW UP TO SAY, HEY, ARE YOU STILL SELLING WIDGETS OR WHATEVER.
UH, AND IT JUST TRANSITIONS TO WHATEVER TRANSITIONS UNTIL SOMEONE COMPLAINS.
THAT'S HOW WE GET ENGAGED TO SAY, HEY, LET, LET, LET'S BEGIN TO INVESTIGATE.
SO, AND, AND WE PROBABLY CAN NEVER REALLY STOP THAT, BUT IF WE CLEAN UP THE, THE LANGUAGE YEAH.
THE DEFINITIONS AND THE LANGUAGE OF THIS, MAYBE WE CAN BETTER, YOU KNOW, FACILITATE THEN.
SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, SEPARATING PEOPLE THAT SELL THE, THE, UH, UH, PRODUCTS, WHATEVER IT IS.
BECAUSE EVEN IF IT'S PRODUCTS, WHATEVER IT IS, EVEN IF IT'S VERSUS CONSUMING THE PRO THE TOBACCO OR WHATEVER IT IS ON SITE, BECAUSE IN LIKE, JUST DIFFERENT BUSINESS, LIKE THE COUNCILMAN WAS SAYING, UH, AND IT'S NOT VERY CLEAR IN THE DEFINITIONS.
AND SO I WAS JUST SAYING, HEY, IN MY OPINION, IF I'M SELLING PRODUCTS OF ANY KIND, WHETHER IT'S PACKAGED TOBACCO IN THE, IN THE MANUFACTURER'S WRAPPED PACKAGE OR PRODUCTS THAT I'M PLACING IN THE WINDOW, I'M STILL A RETAIL STORE, RIGHT? I'M DOING NOTHING BUT SELLING STUFF.
BUT IF I PARTAKE OF, OF THAT AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE LOT COUCHES AND TABLES AND CHAIRS NOW, NOW IT CONVERTS, IN MY OPINION, TO SOMETHING ELSE THAN A RETAIL STORE.
AND THEN THAT'S THE DEFINITION THAT WE SHOULD CHANGE AND MAKE.
AND, YOU KNOW, IT PROBABLY IS GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, DIFFICULT FOR, OUR CHALLENGE FOR US TO KINDA GET OUR ARMS AROUND IS, HEY, MR. SMITH, YOU'RE, YOU OPEN AS A TOBACCO STORE AND NOW YOU'RE SMOKING AND WHATEVER.
IT'S SIMILAR TO A A, A CONVENIENCE STORE THAT'S SELLING BEER.
AND THEY, BUT NO, NO CONSUMPTION ALLOWED ON THE PURPOSE.
THAT'S EXACTLY IS THE SIMILAR, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S VERY SIMILAR.
THAT'S WHERE YOU KIND OF DRAW A LINE THERE IS THE DIFFERENCE, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M PROPOSING VERSUS ON.
SO I, I, I JUST WANNA CHIME IN JUST TO MAKE SURE, 'CAUSE I, THE SCOPING, I, IF WE COULD GET TO THE, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE GETTING TO THE CORE BEFORE WE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS OF WHAT THE CONCERN IS.
'CAUSE I THINK WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME, YES, IT'S A VERY CHALLENGING, I'VE HAD TO READ THIS LIKE 20 TIMES NOW THAT YOU'VE GOT A VAPE SHOP, RETAIL, YOU'VE GOT A TOBACCO SHOP, RETAIL, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT A SMOKE SHOP DEFINITION THAT YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO SMOKE ON THE PREMISES IF YOU'RE SELLING 75% OF YOUR RETAIL ACTIVITY IN TOBACCO PRODUCTS.
WE ASSUME THAT IF YOU'RE LESS THAN YOUR A SMOKE SHOP, IF YOU'RE MORE THAN YOUR RETAIL STORE.
SO IS IT INTENDED, AND I'M ASKING, I'M I'M NOT CHALLENGING, IS IT INTENDED, WAS THIS DEFINITION INTENDED TO ALLOW CIGAR LOUNGES AND HOOKAH LOUNGES? PROBABLY, YEAH.
AND IF THE CONCERN IS, IS WE, WE DON'T, IS IS, THE CONCERN IS WE DON'T CARE FOR THAT AS BEING AN OPTION FOR LAND USE.
AND THEN, THEN I WONDER WHAT THE LEGAL QUESTIONS ARE GONNA BECOME IN TERMS OF WHAT OUR BOUNDARIES ARE TO REGULATE.
MY CONCERN IS NOT WITH CIGAR SHOPS OR SURE.
OR A CIGAR LOUNGE WHERE PEOPLE GO AND SMOKE CIGARS.
[00:15:01]
ONE IN ROCKWALL AT THE HARBOR, UM, YEP.UM, MY CONCERN IS THESE SMALL RETAIL OPERATIONS THAT SELL VAPE STUFF ONLY.
I MEAN, THEY'RE ONLY SELLING VAPE PRODUCTS AND MANY TIMES THOSE AREN'T EVEN, UM, FROM TOBACCO.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE FROM LIKE SOME MADE UP LIQUID SOMEWHERE FROM SOME LAB.
UM, SO IN MY OPINION, IT FALLS UNDER, UM, SOMETHING DESIGNED FOR SMOKING A SUBSTANCE, NOT NECESSARILY TOBACCO.
UM, I JUST, THEY'RE, THEY'RE JUST EVERYWHERE
AND THAT'S, I THINK, THE PROBLEM BECAUSE ONCE YOU HAVE ONE POP UP, THEN THE USES AROUND THAT TYPICALLY AREN'T.
SO YOU, YOU HAD MENTIONED EARLIER TOO THAT WE'RE, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY, IT'S A VAPE SHOP, UM, AND IT HAS, YOU KNOW, VAPE PRODUCTS AND IT'S ALSO SELLING GLASS PIPES, WATER PIPES, WHAT ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS THAT ARE, AS A RETAIL, THAT'S ALSO A CONCERN.
IS THAT WHAT I HEARD? MM-HMM
SO THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES IS ARE WE EVEN ABLE TO REGULATE THAT? I DON'T KNOW THAT WE KNOW THAT TODAY.
I'M JUST ASKING 'CAUSE I DON'T YEAH, I DON'T EITHER.
AND JUST SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WERE JUST SAYING WITH ANDY, IF I UNDERSTOOD YOU CORRECTLY, YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PEOPLE SMOKING IN THE PLACE, YOU'RE JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THEM SELLING.
THAT'S THE NON-REGULATED, THERE WE GO.
MAY NOT BE ILLEGAL OR, YOU KNOW, BORDERLINE ILLEGAL, BUT THOSE KIND OF PRODUCTS, EVEN THOUGH THAT STORE IN, IN FROM A BUILDING OFFICIAL STANDPOINT WOULD BE A RETAIL STORE.
LIKE THEY'RE SELLING HATS OR T-SHIRTS OR WHATEVER, BUT THEY'RE NOT
BUT, BUT YOU, I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.
'CAUSE I WAS THINKING THE CONCERN WAS THE SMOKING PORTION OF THE SMOKE SHOP.
IT'S ACTUALLY THE PARAPHERNALIA PERCEPTION OF WHATEVER STORE THAT'S BEING SOLD IN, WHETHER IT'S A TOBACCO STORE OR A VAPE STORE.
SO THAT'S VERY HELPFUL TO ME TO CLARIFY.
WELL, AND I THINK THAT THE, THE ONE ON NORTHWEST HIGHWAY EVEN HAS LIKE A MARIJUANA LEAF IN THE WINDOW
BUT IT SAYS SOMETHING LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, SOME NONSENSE NAME UNDER IT.
INSTEAD OF, WE SELL POT, WE SELL K STUFF OR WHATEVER IT'S CALLED.
I MEAN, I WHO, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT STUFF, SO I DON'T KNOW.
UM, BUT I DO KNOW THAT WHEN I SEE A BIG GREEN LEAF, WHAT THAT IS, I MEAN, AND WHETHER YOU CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S STILL IMPLYING THAT THEY'RE USING THEIR PRODUCT TO CONSUME THAT.
SO FOR THE PURPOSES OF SCOPING, THEN I FEEL LIKE OUR TASK THEN NEXT IS TO EXPLORE THE, THE, THE CHARACTERIZATION OF THE PARAPHERNALIA AND, AND WHAT OUR REGULATORY, UM, ABILITIES ARE.
AND THEN WE CAN, WE CAN BRING THAT BACK.
I DO THINK WE, WE'D NEED TO CLEAN UP THE LANGUAGE A LITTLE BIT.
IT'S A, IT'S A, I I AGREE WITH YOU MR. RAYMOND.
IT'S A LITTLE WEIRD TO HAVE YOU GO IN AND COUNT RECEIPTS TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH SOMEONE'S, AND I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CLEAR TO SAY, UM, IN THE DEFINITION, IF, IF WE'RE SAYING A SMOKE SHOP IS A PLACE IN WHICH PEOPLE GO TO SMOKE ON PREMISE, IT SHOULD, I FEEL LIKE IT SHOULD SAY THAT.
AND I KNOW THAT THERE'S IN A LOT OF HISTORY ON THIS TOPIC, IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME WE'VE EXPLORED THIS.
I THINK THIS IS ACTUALLY THE MOST RECENT UPDATED VERSION.
UM, SO WE'LL, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO GO KIND OF GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE RESEARCH AND SEE WHAT WE, WHAT WE HAVE DONE AND WHAT WE CAN DO.
UM, 'CAUSE I, I, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I SUSPECT THERE'S GONNA BE SOME CHALLENGES JUST THINKING OUT LOUD, BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT CIGAR SHOPS, YOU'VE GOT HOOKAH SHOPS, NEITHER ONE.
AND THEN IF THEY'RE, IF EITHER ONE IS DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL, IT BECOMES A POLICE MATTER.
UM, I WOULD'VE THOUGHT BY NOW THAT IF ONE OR THE OTHER WAS FOUND DISTASTEFUL THAT THE LAW WOULD'VE FOUND A WAY TO PRECLUDE IT.
AND I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN THAT HAPPEN YET.
WE, WE UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF IT.
AND MAYBE EVEN VAPE SHOPS SHOULD HAVE AN SEP OR, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES NEED TO COME THROUGH SO THAT WE CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A GOOD SPOT FOR THAT.
OR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, YOU'RE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM HIGH SCHOOL.
PROBABLY NOT THE BEST PLACE FOR YOU.
[00:20:01]
THE CHANGE MAKING WINE.I KNOW THEY DON'T BECAUSE LIKE TWO BY MY HOUSE AND SIX MONTHS, IT'S A DIFFERENT COMPANY.
DO Y'ALL HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED FROM US? YES, MA'AM.
I'M SURE WE WILL DISCUSS THIS AGAIN.
AND I'M SORRY, AL, I CALLED YOU BUILDING, BUILDING INSPECTOR EARLIER.
YOU'RE THE MANAGING DIRECTOR OF BUILDING INSPECTIONS.
NO, NOT TO THE RIGHT ON THE BOTTOM.
IT LOOKS LIKE A LITTLE PROJECTOR.
UM, SO WE'VE, THIS SHOULD BE FUN.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS, UH, A COUPLE OF TIMES AND, AND EVERYONE'S KIND OF WEIGHED IN ON THE GOOD, THE BAD, THE UGLY.
SO, UH, AND AND I, WHEN I CAME THE LAST TIME, I, I TOOK, UH, A LOT OF, UH, WHAT WAS SAID AND, UH, REDID SOME THINGS.
AND, AND I'M GONNA MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS TO YOU.
SO THIS, WHAT YOU SEE BEFORE YOU IS EXACTLY WHAT'S IN, IN THE GDC AND, AND, UM, PRIMARY THINGS IS, UH, AND BEFORE I START, LET ME MAKE THIS POINT.
I REACHED OUT A A COUPLE OF TIMES HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH, UH, WITH YOU AND, AND, AND, AND, AND, AND THE COUNCILWOMAN CLARIFIED, HEY, REALLY, I'M JUST LOOKING FOR COMPATIBILITY, RIGHT? I, I WANT WHATEVER'S CONSTRUCTED IN THE FRONT, ON THE SIDE, IN THE BACK, IT SHOULD JUST BLEND IN WITH THE, WITH THE, YOU KNOW, PRINCIPLE STRUCTURE, THE, THE THINGS THAT ARE THERE.
I WANNA MAKE THIS STATEMENT GOING FORWARD, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH 10 SLIDES.
SO I, I, I'VE GOTTA MAKE THIS STATEMENT SO THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS, RIGHT? UM, UH, BUILDING INSPECTIONS, RIGHT? LET ME BACK UP.
DETERMINATION OF COMPATIBILITY IS VERY SUBJECTIVE, RIGHT? BUILDING.
AND, AND IN THAT VEIN, BUILDING INSPECTIONS IS NOT EQUIPPED TO DO THAT, RIGHT? I WOULD SAY PLANNING WOULD BE MORE EQUIPPED TO DO THAT.
NOT THAT I'M GIVING THE BE MORE WORK, BUT I'M JUST MAKING A POINT.
WHAT IS COMPATIBLE TO YOU MAY NOT BE COMPATIBLE TO ME, RIGHT? SO I DON'T WANNA BE ISSUING, PER, LET ME SAY IT THIS WAY, I SHOULDN'T BE ISSUING PERMITS BASED ON, HMM, I THINK THAT'S COMPATIBLE, OR I THINK THAT'S NOT, AND WE'LL, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT FURTHER AS WE GO ON.
BUT A LOT OF WHAT YOU SEE HERE, SPECIFICALLY FORBIDS AND RESTRICTS CERTAIN THINGS BECAUSE IT'S TRYING TO SAY WITHOUT SAYING, HEY, I DON'T WANT METAL.
I DON'T WANT THIS BECAUSE I, I WANT YOU TO BLEND IN RIGHT NOW.
I WAS IN A MEETING WITH, WITH, WITH THE CITY MANAGER, UH, YESTERDAY OR WHATEVER, AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW WE NEED TO CLEAN UP, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BECAUSE WE NEED TO PROMOTE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
NALA HAS BEEN HAMMERING WITH ME LIKE, HEY, YOU, YOU, WE CAN'T ALLOW METAL.
WE CAN'T ALLOW THESE THINGS BECAUSE THE HOUSING STUDY AND THE THINGS WE WANT GARLAND TO LOOK LIKE TOMORROW WON'T HAPPEN IF WE CONTINUE TO ALLOW THIS.
HOWEVER, THE TRUE SIDE IS THE CARPORTS THAT ARE UP NOW, BUT MO I'D SAY 90% OF THEM ARE JUST VERY ECONOMICALLY.
A LOT OF THESE HOUSES HAVE THE ONE LITTLE GARAGE THAT, THAT NOW HAS A STORAGE ROOM OR WHATEVER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT GARAGE DOOR.
AND NOW THEY JUST BUILT A CARPORT TO, TO JUST COVER THEIR VEHICLES, RIGHT? IN THEORY, WE COULD SAY TO, TO GO TO THE COMPATIBILITY CA COMPATIBILITY LEVEL ADDS COSTS TO WHAT WAS A SIMPLE, I COULD HAVE GONE TO HOME DEPOT OR LOWE'S AND GOT A, YOU KNOW, A MILLER, A A MILLER BUILDING IN A BOX AND CONSTRUCTED, AND IT ONLY COST ME A A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS WHEN WE NOW, WHEN WE STARTED ADDING ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS AND QUOTE UNQUOTE COMPATIBILITY, THERE'S A POTENTIAL THAT IT COULD BE MORE, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT THERE'S KIND OF A PUBLIC SERVICE STATEMENT, AND THEN WE CAN, WE CAN GO ON FROM THERE,
AND, AND SO WHAT I'VE DONE, UM, AND WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE LAST TIME WE WERE HERE, I'M WANTING TO PROPOSE THIS, WHAT YOU SEE BEFORE YOU, RIGHT? SO, UH, CARPORTS CONSTRUCTED ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, AND IT'S ONLY TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL CARPORTS,
[00:25:01]
BY THE WAY, RIGHT? THERE'S COM THERE'S RESIDENTIAL AND NON RESIDENTIAL, I THINK, BUT WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL, CARDBOARDS, CAR RISK CONSTRUCTION AND RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES SHALL BE COMPATIBLE.AND I, I'M USING THAT WORD HERE TODAY.
BUT WE MAY WANT TO CHANGE THAT, RIGHT? IF, IF WE WANT TO, RIGHT? COMPATIBLE WITH THE PRINCIPLE STRUCTURE, UH, RESPECT TO MATERIALS, COLOR, AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE CAN TOUCH AND FEEL AND QUANTIFY.
MATERIALS, COLOR, HEIGHT, I, I CAN SEE THAT, RIGHT? IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A, A MYSTERY TO ME.
THE DESIGN AND CHARACTER, THOSE ARE KIND OF ARTSY FARTSY WORDS OR THE PROPOSED CARPET SHALL BE COMPATIBLE.
THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN, WITH THE PRINCIPLE STRUCTURE AND, AND THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD AESTHETICS, THOSE ARE NOT NECESSARILY PLANNING WORDS, BUT, BUT THEY'RE ARCHITECTURAL ARTSY FARTSY THINGS, RIGHT? THAT, ANYWAY, LEMME JUST GO ON, BUT, AND, BUT WE'RE GONNA COME BACK TO THAT BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA BE A A A GOOD POINT.
ALL NEWLY CONSTRUCTED, UH, ARE MODIFIED CARPORTS, AND THERE'S THESE SEVERAL BULLETS THAT HAVE HIGHLIGHTED ARE THINGS THAT I THINK WE CAN POINT TO WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, WELL, I LIKE IT TALL, I LIKE IT SHORT.
I MEAN, THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN SAY CLEARLY.
YES, NO, MAYBE, SO MATERIALS TYPE, SHAPE, SIZE, TEXTURE, COLOR, THOSE ARE THINGS WE CAN TOUCH AND FEEL PROHIBITIVE MATERIALS.
WE CAN SAY WE DON'T WANNA SEE THAT, RIGHT? AND, AND WE CAN ADD TO IT OR TAKE FROM IT, RIGHT? SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WILL NOT REQUIRE ANY GUESSING OR ANY SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS, UH, STRUCTURE, RIGHT? THAT'S, AGAIN, VERY TANGIBLE.
ROOFING MATERIALS, AGAIN, VERY, VERY TANGIBLE, RIGHT? SO EVEN THOUGH WE USE THE WORD COMPATIBILITY HERE, IT HAS TO BE COMPATIBLE OR BLENDED WITH NEIGHBORHOOD AESTHETICS AND ALL OF THOSE FLOWERY WORDS.
THESE ARE THINGS THAT I THINK ANYBODY IN THE BUILDING ESPECIALLY CAN KIND OF SAY, OH, YEAH, YEAH, THIS LOOKS LIKE 26, 15 HIGHBURY THE HOUSE.
IT, IT'S VENEER, IT'S ROOFING, WHATEVER, RIGHT? ADDITIONALLY, I SAID, CARPORTS CAN'T SHOW IN, IN THE REAR.
AND I JUST BASICALLY SAY WE'RE GONNA LIMIT IT TO 15 FEET, RIGHT? UH, ALL CONSTRUCTION PLANS NEED TO BE SUBMITTED FOR APPROVAL.
AND, AND IF THEY ARE, IF THEY'RE NOT COMPLYING WITH THE LOAD SPAN REQUIREMENTS OF JUST CONVENTIONAL FRAMING LUMBER, THEN IT SHOULD BE DESIGNED BY A STAMPED, BY A REGISTERED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL THAT BEGINS TO, TO CHANGE THINGS.
AND I GOT SOME NEW PICTURES HERE THAT I'M GONNA DISCUSS WITH YOU ON THAT.
BUT, BUT ANYWAY, UH, UH, THE SIDE CARPORTS, I DIDN'T CHANGE ANY OF THAT, WHICH MEANS THE COME, WE ALLOW THE COVERING OF THE CARPORTS DOWN THE TWO FEET, RIGHT? AND THE REQUIREMENTS, UH, APPLY ONLY TO CARPORT'S CANOPIES, AND PORTIER IS CONSTRUCTED ON OR AFTER, UH, CONSTRUCTED, UH, AFTER THE ORIGINAL DATE, WHICH WAS APRIL 18TH, 2006.
NOW, NUMBER SEVEN IS, IS AN ISSUE.
AND I KNOW WHEN I WAS HERE BEFORE, EVERYONE SAYS NO.
AND EVEN NABILA KIND OF MADE A COMMENT THAT SAID, HEY, WE SHOULD NOT TAKE THESE OFF THE BOARD, OFF THE PLAYING BOARD, RIGHT? THE ONLY REASON I'M, I'M MAKING THIS REQUEST AGAIN, IS, IS FOR TWO REASONS.
ONE, IF WE HAVE, I'M ONE OF THE ONES THAT BELIEVE THAT IF WE HAVE THINGS IN THE GDC THAT WE DON'T ENFORCE, BUT WE KNOW IT'S THERE, IT, IT KIND OF MAKES MY GROUP LOOK A LITTLE INCOMPETENT OR, AND PEOPLE WILL SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, YOU, WHAT ARE YOU IDIOT? YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WITH JOHNNY'S CARDBOARD OR SALLY'S CARDBOARD? BECAUSE IT, IT IS, IT IS, IT WILL BE QUITE AN EFFORT TO DETERMINE, AND LET ME BACK UP AND MAKE THIS STATEMENT TOO.
SO WE SAY, NO, NO, WE DON'T, WE DON'T WANNA MAKE, UH, WHATEVER'S THERE NON-CONFORMING, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE COMPLIANT.
THAT'S AN EFFORT IN AND OF ITSELF.
'CAUSE THERE'S A, THERE'S A HELL OF A LOT OF CORPORATES IN, IN GARLAND.
AND, AND I'M GONNA SHOW YOU A LIST OF WHO IS SUBMITTED FOR PERMITS.
SO IT IS JUST A, IT'S JUST A LITTLE, SO YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S A WHOLE LOT THAT'S NOT, SO THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH SAYING, HEY, CODE, CODE COMPLIANCE, WE WANT YOU TO GET AFTER THIS AND FIND OUT, RIGHT? THAT'S JUST, THAT'S, THAT JUST COULD BE CHALLENGING.
NOT THAT WE CAN'T DO IT, IT'S, IT'S JUST CHALLENGING BECAUSE ON SOME, SOME OF THESE STREETS WHEN WE WE'RE DOING IT, THEIR CARPORTS ON ALL THE WAY DOWN THE STREET ON EVERY, ALMOST ON EVERY HOME.
SO, AND YOU CAN SAY, WELL, WE'RE NOT GONNA SAY, WELL, MR. RAYMOND, WE'RE NOT SAYING TO TEAR THEM DOWN.
BUT FOR, FOR, BECAUSE, AND I HAVE TO MAKE THIS COMMENT, AND IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT BLACK, IT'S NOT WHITE, IT'S NOT GREEN AND NOT BLUE.
BUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THESE ARE PREVALENT, IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THE FIRE WHEEL STATES OF GARLAND, RIGHT? IT'S, IT'S JUST REGULAR PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, WORK NINE TO FIVE AND JUST TRYING TO MAKE ENDS MEET.
SO YES, WE'RE NOT GONNA SAY, HEY, MR. SMITH, YOU GOTTA TEAR THAT DOWN.
BUT IF WE SAY YOU GOT A PERMIT, IT, THERE'S A COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, RIGHT? AND PARTICULARLY, LET'S SAY IF IT'S ATTACHED TO THE HOME, AND I'M SAYING HERE, I REALLY SEE A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE WHEN IT'S ATTACHED, IF, IF IT'S NOT ATTACHED TO THE HOME AND THE WIND BLOWS AND IT SHAKES AND FALLS DOWN, OKAY, IT'S NOT SO BAD, IT STILL BECOMES A PROJECTILE DOWN THE ROAD.
BUT IF IT'S ATTACHED TO THE HOME, THAT MAGNIFIES THE WHOLE FALLING DOWN BECAUSE NOW MOST OF THE HOME IS COMING WITH IT, OR THE ROOF STRUCTURE AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
SO IT'S, IT'S WAY MORE THAN JUST SAYING, HEY, YOU NEED TO PERMIT THAT, RIGHT? BECAUSE,
[00:30:01]
AND WHY AM I SAYING THAT? BECAUSE AS I, AS I WAS GOING DOWN THE STREET, AND I HAVEN'T OF COURSE HADN'T LOOKED AT ALL OF THEM, BUT A LION'S SHARE OF THEM ARE ATTACHED, AND I THINK THEY'RE JUST NAILED IN OR ANCHORED IN THAT WITHOUT ANY KIND OF STRUCTURAL CONSIDERATION.SO I'M JUST LAYING THAT OUT THERE.
BUT NUMBER SEVEN SAYS, AND, AND, AND, AND I'M SURE WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT LATER, SAID, HEY, WE SHOULDN'T MAKE ALL OF THESE, YOU KNOW, LEGALLY NON-CONFORMING, RIGHT? NOT THAT IT MAKES IT EASIER ON ME, BUT IT'S, I I THINK IT'S, UM, IT, IT'S, IT'S, UH, OUR, IT MAKES IT EASIER ON THE, ON THE CONSTITUENTS, I THINK, BUT JUST MY OPINION.
AND OF COURSE I SAY HERE LAST, UNLESS OF COURSE THERE'S A HAZARD, IT'S HALFWAY FALLEN DOWN OR SOMETHING.
OR IF THEY, IF WE, IF IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'VE ADDED TO IT SUBSTANTIALLY TO MAKE IT MORE ATTRACTIVE OR WHATEVER.
SO JUST MY OPINION, RIGHT? AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER HERE.
THE, THE, THE DEFINITION OF OF, OF CARPORTS PATIOS AND, AND, AND, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, WELL, HERE'S A DEFINITION, AND I, I PROPOSE A NEW DEFINITION OF ROOF ACCESSORY STRUCTURE OPEN ON A MINIMUM OF TWO SIDES WHEN ATTACHED TO YOUR PRIMARY STRUCTURE, OPEN ON A MINIMUM OF THREE SIDES WHEN DETACHED, RIGHT? BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO PUT ON ONE OF THE ENDS OF A LITTLE STORAGE BUILDING OR WHATEVER THEY DO, RIGHT? TO MAKE IT MORE CONVENIENT FOR THEM, RIGHT? SO, AND, AND WHETHER IT'S DETACHED OR ATTACHED IS STILL A STRUCTURE RIGHT NOW, AND THIS, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, BUT THIS, THESE ARE KIND OF THE SETBACKS AND, AND NOTICE HERE, RIGHT? AND, UH, BECAUSE I WANNA MAKE THIS STATEMENT ON, ON, ON THE VERY FIRST ONE, PROPOSED, UH, FRONT CARPORT SETBACK.
BECAUSE AS I WENT DOWN AND LOOKED AT MANY, MANY STREETS,
THE REASONABLE SETBACK WOULD BE FIVE FEET.
BUT AGAIN, THIS IS STILL UP FOR DISCUSSION.
SAME THING ON THIS SIDE, THE THREE FEET IS THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FIRE RATED, RIGHT? ALTHOUGH, OF COURSE TODAY MOST OF THEM ARE ON THE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH MEANS THAT IT, IT SHOULD BE FIRE RATED, RIGHT? AND SO, NOT THAT WE SHOULD PUT BLINDERS ON, I'M JUST JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE FOR A DISCUSSION,
AND WE TALKED ABOUT ELIMINATING, I THINK YOU, YOU COUNCILWOMAN, UH, CHAIR SAID, HEY, WE SHOULD LIMIT IT PROBABLY TO FOUR, FOUR INCH SQUARE FEET.
NOW, FOUR INCH SQUARE FEET IN GRANTED, I'M GONNA SHOW YOU PICTURES, AND SOME ARE JUST BIG AS HECK.
FOUR INCH SQUARE FEET CLEARLY COVERS TWO NINE SIZE VEHICLES.
EVEN IF YOU HAVE A, A, A GIANT TRUCK WITH A HITCH ON IT, RIGHT? 400 SQUARE FEET CAN COVER THAT.
HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE 400 SQUARE FEET IS THE COMPATIBILITY ISSUE IF WE'RE GONNA GO THERE, RIGHT? BECAUSE I'M GONNA SHOW YOU PICTURES OF SOME THAT LOOK LIKE, HEY, THAT'S RIGHT AT 400 SQUARE FEET, BUT IT DWARFS THE HOME BECAUSE THOSE HOMES ARE NOT VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY LARGE.
RIGHT? SO THAT'S THE DECISION MAKING THAT COMES IN BECAUSE YOU, YOU KNOW, HUMAN BEINGS HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AND GO, HMM, I'M NOT QUITE SURE.
BUT ANYWAY, SO OF COURSE, PROPOSED ENFORCEMENT, OF COURSE, A BUILDING PERMIT IS NEEDED.
AND, AND BEFORE I GET TO THE APPEALS PROCESS, AGAIN, LIKE I STARTED OUT EARLIER, IF YOU SUBMIT TO ME A PERMIT, RIGHT? I CAN REVIEW IT, UH, BASED ON THE CODE, PROBABLY WITH THE GDC, WE CAN LOOK AT IT AND REVIEW IT.
IF YOU SAY TO THAT SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE, HEY, NOW YOU'VE GOTTA JUDGE THE COMPATIBILITY.
THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE MAY HAVE A, A LITTLE BIT OF A PROBLEM AND A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN.
NOW, ALL, ALL, YOU GUYS ARE SMART, AND MAYBE WE CAN COME UP WITH ANOTHER WORD THAT, THAT SAYS, HEY, WE, WE'VE GOT TO, WE'VE GOT TO MAKE THIS, UH, UM, BLEND IN WITH THE SURROUNDINGS OR WHATEVER WE WANT TO DO.
HOWEVER, WE HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF, OF TAKING THE PLANT, THE, THE MEN AND WOMEN OF PLAN REVIEW AND INSPECTIONS AND, AND, AND, AND, AND, AND, AND MAKING SURE THAT THEIR PARAMETERS ARE SET RIGHT? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE CODE AND THEY LOOK AT THE WHAT'S SUBMITTED AND SAY, HEY, THIS COMPLIES, OR IT DOESN'T, THAT'S ALMOST KIND OF BLACK AND WHITE CONTEXT, UH, AESTHETICS, COMPATIBILITY, THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
UH, NOT SO BLACK AND WHITE, BUT, AND THEN WE JUST HAVE A PROCESS BUILDING OFFICIAL, THE BUILDING STANDARDS COMMISSION.
AND OF COURSE, IF THERE ARE A LOT ISSUES, LIKE, I CAN'T DO THIS ON THIS LOT, I GOTTA DO THIS, OR WHATEVER, THAT WILL GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, AS WE SAID IN, IN THE PREVIOUS MEETING HERE, I WANTED TO BRING THIS IN, UH, AND JUST SHOW YOU, THIS IS WHAT HAS COME IN OVER THE YEARS, AND I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE ONE YEAR, BUT THIS IS LIKE FIVE YEARS, FIVE, SIX YEARS, RIGHT? AND THERE'S NOT A LOT, BUT THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF, UH, UH, CARPETS OUT THERE, RIGHT? AND I PUT THAT LAST ONE IN THERE, JUST A, A PLUG, RIGHT? A SHAMELESS PLUG TO SAY, HEY, WE GOTTA MAKE, WE GOTTA MAKE WHAT'S EXIST BECAUSE WE GOTTA PICK A STARTING POINT, RIGHT? AND, YOU KNOW, IF WE, IF WE MAKE CH MY MY OPINION, RIGHT? IF WE MAKE CHANGES AND WE WANNA GO FORWARD WITH
[00:35:01]
THOSE CHANGES, OF COURSE YOU CAN SAY, HEY, WE, WE GOTTA, WE GOTTA GO BACK AND MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS IN LINE.WE CAN OF COURSE, DO THAT, BUT WE, WE GOTTA HAVE A A A CLEAR STARTING POINT.
EVERYONE AGREES TO IT, AND, AND WE MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE THAT, THAT WOULD BE A LOT OF YELLING, SCREAMING, CRYING, GNASHING OF TEETH.
IF WE GO BACK AND SAY, HEY, IS THIS PERMITTED? AND THEN GO THROUGH THE POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE OF MAKING EACH INDIVIDUAL PERMIT THEIR, THEIR CARDBOARD, OKAY? NOW, THE NEXT FIVE OR SIX PICTURES ARE AL RAYMOND SPECIALS, RIGHT?
I, I LOVE, AND I UNDERSTAND WITH DEEP INTRINSIC VALUE THAT OF, HEY, THAT GOES, OR THAT DOESN'T GO, UH, AESTHETICS, COMPATIBILITY.
I, I, I KNOW THAT, RIGHT? SO WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH SOME SLIDES THAT I'M GONNA SAY TO YOU, HEY, THIS IS, IN MY OPINION, GOOD OR BAD, YOU, WHETHER YOU AGREE OR NOT.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE POINT THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE.
HEY, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T ALL SEE THE SAME THINGS, RIGHT? WE DON'T ALL SEE IT THE SAME WAY.
SO BEAR WITH ME BECAUSE THE ONE AT THE END,
BUT YOU'RE GONNA LOOK AT IT AND SEE, HEY, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S MUCH, RIGHT? SO THIS IS, THIS IS WHAT ONE WOULD SAY, HEY, THIS IS KIND OF, UM, IT'S JUST A CAR POURED, IT, IT'S ANCHORED IN CONCRETE IN THE GROUND, RIGHT? AND YOU NOTICE THERE'S NO STRUTS ON IT TO STOP THE, IF IT RACKS FROM WIND BLOWING AND EVERYTHING, AND IT'S NOT ATTACHED TO THE HOME, RIGHT? SO IF THIS CAME IN, I WOULD SAY, WELL, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY NEED, UH, AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S METAL, SO IT DOESN'T NEED A, A, A REGISTER DESIGN PROFESSIONAL, AND RIGHT.
IF IT CAME IN BEFORE WE HAD THESE DISCUSSIONS, YEAH.
IF IT'S NOT IN THE SETBACKS, YEAH.
AND DEPENDING ON WHERE THE PROPERTY LINE IS ON THE SIDE, WHERE THE CAR IS, YEAH, WE WOULD PROBABLY APPROVE IT, RIGHT? NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS, RIGHT? BECAUSE AT THAT TIME, WE DIDN'T SAY, HEY, WELL, YOU DON'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE THE HOUSE YOU IN, BUT LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT CARPORT, WHICH JUST STRETCHES OVER.
AND I GUARANTEE YOU THAT THAT CONCRETE AP IS PROBABLY SIX, WELL, NOT 16 FEET, IT'S PROBABLY EIGHT TO 10 FEET, RIGHT? THAT LITTLE CARPORT.
LOOK HOW IT DWARFS THE, THE HOME THAT IT'S ATTACHED TO, RIGHT? AND THIS IS THE CHALLENGE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE.
WELL, EVERYONE HAS, UH, UH, GOING FORWARD, BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE THERE, THAT, WELL, THAT ONE WINDOW IS ON THE SIDE THAT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS ONE OF THOSE ONE CAR GARAGES, RIGHT? THAT THEY CONVERTED, RIGHT? AND THEN THEY JUST SAY, HEY, I'LL COVER AND PROTECT MY CAR.
SO THEY CREATED THIS, THIS CARPORT.
BUT IN EACH CASE, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WHAT I WANTED TO JUST MAKE YOU AWARE OF IS THAT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO SAY, HOW CAN THIS FIT? HOW CAN A 400 SQUARE FOOT CARPORT FIT A HOME? THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT, 800, A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET? IT, IT, IT JUST WON'T, RIGHT? SO, AND THEN, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU, YOU THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER, AND NOW DESIGN COMES IN, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE CAN'T NECESSARILY AFFORD.
SO LET ME GO BACK, OKAY? SO THIS IS ATTACHED, RIGHT? IT'S ATTACHED, AND IT'S ALSO METAL, RIGHT? AND I WANTED TO GO BACK HERE, RIGHT? BECAUSE WHAT I SAID BEFORE IN, IN THE B LOOP, YOU KNOW, SHE ALWAYS GIVES HER OPINION TO ME, AND SHE SAYS, HEY, SHE SAYS, I SAY, WELL, I SAID, THEY CAN JUST PAINT THIS, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT, BECAUSE AGAIN, I'M THINKING OF THE RESIDENTS, RIGHT? THEY, THEY CAN JUST PAINT THIS.
WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THEM CLAT THIS WITH ANYTHING.
AND, AND OF COURSE, AS I SAID EARLIER, SHE GOES, HEY, THAT'S COUNTER TO THE DIRECTION THAT WE NEED TO GO.
I, I DO, AND I SAID TO NABILA, I SAID TO NAELA, WHEN REDEVELOPMENT OCCURS, THEY'RE NOT COMING.
IT WON'T BE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT'LL BE YEARS BEFORE WE GET TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO LET THESE PEOPLE HAVE THEIR CARPORT.
BUT I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT OUT THERE, BECAUSE YES, WE COULD SAY, OH, WELL, MR. SMITH, YOU'VE GOTTA PAINT IT, RIGHT? WHATEVER.
IT WON'T TAKE AWAY THE QUOTE UNQUOTE UGLY.
AND, AND, AND BEAUTY IS AN EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, BUT THIS IS KIND, IT'S A CARPORT.
IT'S VERY UTILITARIAN, AND IT, IT DOES WHAT IT'S BUILT TO DO, RIGHT? IT'S NOT BUILT TO BE PRETTY OR WHATEVER.
SO ANYWAY, I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT.
SO THIS IS THE SAME THING, RIGHT? AND BY THE WAY, THAT'S A METAL ROOF, RIGHT? AND, UH, IT'S ATTACHED TO THE HOME, BUT, AND IT'S PROBABLY 400 OR MORE SQUARE FEET.
IT DWARFS THE HOME THAT IT'S ATTACHED TO.
AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO SAY, HEY, UH, CAN WE DESIGN THIS TO MAKE IT ALL ARTSY, ARTSY AND PRE AND STUFF? AND, AND THE ANSWER MIGHT BE, NO.
HEY, I KNOW CITY, YOU WANT TO DO WHATEVER YOU'RE GONNA DO, BUT WE JUST WANNA COVER OUR CARS, RIGHT? SO KEEP THAT IN MIND, RIGHT? SO IN THE OLD DAYS WHEN THIS COME IN, WE WOULD'VE SAID, WELL, AND I DON'T DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS PERMANENT OR NOT, BUT WE WOULD'VE SAID, HEY, YOU, YOU GOTTA HAVE AN, AN ENGINEER OR A REGISTERED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL SHOW THAT, HEY, THESE ATTACHMENTS ARE DESIGNED AND THE HOUSE IS NOT GONNA LEAN OR BONE, BUT, YOU KNOW, TO SEE, BECAUSE THEY'RE ANCHORED AND CONCRETE, A LOT OF THE CONTRACTORS FEEL, WELL, THEY WON'T, RICK, BECAUSE IT'S ANCHORED
[00:40:01]
TO THE HOUSE, AND IT'S ANCHORED AND CONCRETE, BUT THERE'S NO CROSS OR, OR X BRACING, RIGHT? SO IT WILL, IF A STRONG WIND COMES, IT WILL RACK AND IT COULD HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO, TO DAMAGE THE STRUCTURE, RIGHT? SO, BUT IN ANY EVENT, IT'S THERE, IT'S STANDING.UH, AND, AND, AND I WAS SAYING TO SEAN, SHOULD I, SHOULD I SEE IF WE PERMANENT ALL THESE, WE DON'T HAVE ALL THAT TIME TO DO THAT, BUT ANY EVENT, IT'S THERE, RIGHT? SO HERE'S ONE.
OH, AND I'M GONNA GO BACK AND SAY, SO FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL STANDPOINT, YES, IF ANY OF YOU ASKED ME, HEY, DOES THAT, IS THAT, IS THAT COMPATIBLE? LIKE, COME ON, MAN.
IT'S, IT'S AN EYESORE, RIGHT? IT'S AN EYESORE, RIGHT? EVERYONE WOULD AGREE TO THAT, BUT DOES IT MEET THE PURPOSE? AND, AND I'M SURE THE RESIDENT WILL SAY, OF COURSE IT DOES.
MY CAR'S ON GOOD HEAT, UH, PROTECT FROM THE HILL, WHATEVER IT DOES.
AND SO, WHICH TAKES IT TO THE NEXT PICTURE, CLEARLY WE CAN SAY THAT'S AN EYESORE.
IT CLEARLY DOESN'T COMPARE TO THE, TO THE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE, TO THE, TO THE EAST.
UH, IT IS, IT, IT'S HOWEVER, RIGHT, PERMITTED OR NOT.
AND IF IT'S NOT IN THE PURPLE LINE, WE WOULD'VE ALLOWED THAT, EXCEPT FOR THE HEIGHT, OF COURSE.
BUT WE WOULD'VE ALLOWED THIS TO MOVE FORWARD, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT, IT, IT'S FUNCTIONAL.
NOW, IF WE BRING IN AESTHETICS AND, AND, AND, AND, AND, AND KIND OF BEING COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND, AND, AND, AND, AND BE UNDERSTANDING OF THE EXISTING PRINCIPLE STRUCTURE, AGAIN, THAT'S SOME, YES.
CAN WE DO THAT? OF COURSE WE CAN.
BUT, UH, BUT WHAT I LIKE MAY NOT BE WHAT YOU LIKE OR WHAT NALA LIKES OR WHAT SEAN LIKES OR WHATEVER.
SO I'M JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE, RIGHT? I KNOW EVERYONE HAS OPINIONS, EVERYONE HAS THOUGHTS.
I'M JUST, JUST SERVING THAT UP NOW, COMPATIBILITY.
NOW, L RAYMOND LOOKS AT THIS AND SAYS, WOW, I'VE GOT IT.
BECAUSE IF YOU ASK ME, THIS DOES EXACTLY WHAT WE WANTED.
WHAT I SAID ON THE, ON MY PROPOSED FIRST PAGE, IT KEEPS THE SAME EVE LINE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
IT, IT, AND IT, IT ALMOST, AND EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW IT'S NOT, BUT IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE IT, IT FOLLOWS THE HOME, RIGHT? SO IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY AN EYESORE.
IT, YES, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ON A PROPERTY LINE.
UH, AND AM I GONNA SAY ANYTHING? UH, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST SAYING, LOOKS LIKE SOME, THIS, THIS IS WELL WITHIN THE STRIKE ZONE, RIGHT? NOT BAD.
THIS IS THE SAME HOUSE, RIGHT? I, I TOOK IT FROM, I, I TOOK A PICTURE DOWN THE ROAD TO SAY, THIS IS A CARPORT THAT'S NOT DETACHED, RIGHT? IT, IT, IT, IT IS, IT THAT'S NOT ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE.
IF, IF YOU GET UP CLOSE ENOUGH, IT HAS, IT'S, IT'S PERFECT.
IT'S MADE OF, UH, CONVENTIONAL FRAMING LUMBER, RIGHT? SO IT DIDN'T NEED AN ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN OR ANYTHING.
THE HOME IS PROBABLY WHAT, EIGHT, 9,000, 1200 SQUARE FEET.
AND THE CARPORT, EVEN IF IT LOOK, AND IT'S TWO SIZES, EVEN THOUGH IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY OVER 20 FEET.
IT'S, IT FITS TWO CARS, BUT IT IS, IT, IT'S JUST, YEAH, IT'S JUST LIKE A PUNCH IN THE EYE, RIGHT?
AND, AND LOOK AT THE HOME, IT'S WELL KEPT.
AND YOU GO, OH MY GOSH, THIS IS BEAUTIFUL.
I'M SURE THEY DRIVE A VERY, AND THEY GO, OH MY GOSH, THIS IS SO BEAUTIFUL.
BUT YES, TO ANY OF US, WE SAY, THIS IS AN EYESORE.
WHAT, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE WE DOING? RIGHT? AND, AND I'M SURPRISED NO ONE'S COMPLAINING SAY, HEY, MR. AND MRS. SMITH, WHY, WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT BIG KIND OF MONSTROSITY? BUT IT'S FUNCTIONAL.
AND I'M, AND IT LOOKS LIKE, I THINK ON THIS SIDE, IT'S MAYBE NOT BE ON THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT, BUT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR THESE LITTLE HOMES TO GET A TWO CAR CARPORT AND HAVE IT BLEND INTO, TO, TO THE EXISTING PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE IN, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND IT.
IT'S, IT'S JUST A CHALLENGE COMING AND GOING.
AND THIS IS, THIS IS ANOTHER, IT'S THE SAME PICTURE'S, THE SAME HOME, RIGHT? AND YOU LOOK ON, ON THE LEFT SIDE, YOU SEE HOW, OH, YEAH, THEY TIED IT, THEY DID IT SO MUCH THAT IT MADE IT A HIP INTO THE MAIN ROOF, THAT THEY LIFTED IT MORE HIGH, WHICH WE DON'T WANT CARPORTS BEING THAT TALL, BUT THEY MADE IT PART OF, TIED IT INTO THE MAIN STRUCTURE AS A HIP AND BROUGHT IT OUT AS A GABLE, AND WOW, IT JUST CONSUMES THE ENTIRE HOME, RIGHT? SO YOU, YOU GO FROM ONE EXTREME TO WHEN I STARTED WITH THAT LITTLE KIND OF FOUR FRAME THING, TO NOW PEOPLE ARE JUST, HEY, IT'S MY CARPORT AND NOW I'M JUST GONNA MAKE IT WORK, RIGHT? YEAH.
AND IF YOU SAY TO ME, HEY, IS THAT, IS THAT PERMANENT? NO, IT'S NOT.
AND, AND YES, MR. RAYMOND, YOU, YOUR TEAM HAS TO GO IN AND SAY, HEY, MR. RESIDENCE, WHAT THE HELL? RIGHT? SO, YEAH, JUST, JUST BE MINDFUL OF THAT.
UH, JUST, JUST BE MINDFUL OF THAT WE ARE PARKED ON THE GRASS.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY YES,
RIGHT? EVEN THOUGH THE CARPORT EXTENDS OVER THAT, I'M SURPRISED THEY DIDN'T JUST CONCRETE THAT IN, RIGHT? BUT PART THE MARSHALLS
IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE OTHER, THE TWO SLIDES BEFORE, RIGHT? AGAIN, UH, IT'S DETACHED, IT'S WOOD, IT'S CONVENTIONAL FRAMING, LUMBER.
[00:45:01]
COVERS THIS, UH, 800,000 SQUARE FOOT HOME.IT'S VERY DI BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO CO AND YES, UH, SOMEONE MADE A COMMENT BEFORE, HEY, PEOPLE HAVE FOUR OR FIVE CARS AT A HOUSE, AND THEY WANT SOME OF THOSE CARS COVERED.
AND TO DO THAT, EVEN 400 CAR FEET, IT'S, IT'S TOUGH TO DO AND STILL SAY, HEY, YOU NEED TO BE CONTEXTUALLY MINDFUL OF THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE THAT YOU'RE BUILDING THIS FOR.
AND I, I KNOW THAT, AND I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF BRING THAT TO YOU, RIGHT? UH, NOW, MS. CHAIR, THIS IS THE ONE THAT I THOUGHT WAS RIGHT ON THE NOSE AND BEING COMPATIBLE, BUT LOOK AT IT, IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED BY, UM, AN ARCHITECT OR, YOU KNOW, SOME DESIGN PROFESSIONAL.
AND EVEN THOUGH THE HOUSE KIND OF HAS THIS TUTOR STYLE, AND YOU SEE HOW IT'S ALL UNDULATED ALL OVER, LOOK AT THE CARPORT.
IT IT IS, IT, IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE IT'S INTEGRAL TO THE HOUSE, RIGHT? AND I WANTED TO MAKE THIS STATEMENT, AND I, I, I WAS SO, I WAS SO ASTONISHED, LIKE, WOW, I WAS, YOU KNOW, TELLING MY WIFE, BUT IT'S A TWO STORY HOME, RIGHT? IN EVERY HOME IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD FROM, UH, I, THIS IS LIKE AT THE CORNER OF, UH, NORTH GARLAND AND BUCKINGHAM, RIGHT? AND IT'S, IT'S THAT NE THAT STREET, UH, THAT'S, UM, I THINK TO THE WEST, EAST OF NORTH GARLAND, WHICH, WHICH I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT, AND I DROVE AROUND THE ENTIRE, IT IS ALL JUST ONE STORY HOMES WITH, WITH KIND OF PLAIN CARPORTS.
AND THIS LOOKS LIKE AN INFIELD DEVELOPMENT.
BUT WHAT, WHO, WHOEVER DID IT, DID A, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS A GREAT, GREAT JOB, RIGHT? BUT EVERYONE CAN'T WHERE THESE CARPORTS ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THEY ARE, EVERYONE CAN'T AFFORD THIS.
AND BY THE WAY, AND MY WIFE IS SAYING, WHY IS THIS HOME IN THIS, THIS? I SAID, WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE INFILL DEVELOPMENT, BUT YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE IT DOESN'T BELONG THERE, RIGHT? BUT IF YOU ASKED ME, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OPINIONS, RIGHT? AESTHETICS, UH, COMPATIBILITY, ARCHITECTURAL, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, COMPATIBILITY, I WOULD SAY, HEY, THIS, AND, AND IT COMES TO MIND DE SAY, THAT IS YOUR JOB TO TELL US IS IT COMPATIBLE OR NOT? I WOULD SAY, YEAH, THIS MEETS THIS MORE THAN MEETS THE GOAL, BUT EVERYONE OR EVERY RESIDENCE WHERE THESE THINGS ARE, CAN'T AFFORD THIS.
THIS IS BEYOND THE, THE, THE MORGAN OF BUTLER BUILDING THAT YOU PURCHASED FROM HOME DEPOT OR FROM LOWE'S.
THIS IS, SOMEONE'S PUT SOME TIME AND, AND EFFORT AND, AND LOOK, THEY STILL, WHEN I WAS THERE, THERE WAS 1, 2, 3, 4, THERE'S SEVERAL CARS.
THERE WAS 4, 5, 6 CARS AND, AND SEVEN ONE ON, EVEN ON THE OTHER SIDE.
THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF CARS AT THIS, THIS HOUSE.
AND, AND, AND, AND I'M OPENING UP FOR QUESTIONS.
BUT WHAT I WANNA SAY IS THIS,
I JUST ASK THAT YOU, WE, WE BE REASONABLE IN, IN OUR APPROACH TO, TO, TO WHAT IT IS THAT YOU ASK US TO DO, SIMPLY BECAUSE NOT BE, AND I WOULD SAY THIS WAY, NOT BECAUSE IT'S JUST A LOT OF WORK, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE.
BUT SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE, I SEE THAT A A LOT OF THE DECISIONS YOU MAKE, YOU MAKE IN VIEW OF THE IMPACT TO THE RESIDENTS, I THINK WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO DO THAT.
AND I, I'M OPEN FOR ANY QUESTIONS, GENTLEMEN.
SO I, I, I ASSUME YOU'RE REALLY THINKING ABOUT YOUR FOLKS.
THEY'RE ALL NOT TRAINED ARCHITECTS WITH YOUR EYE.
AND, AND TO HAVE THEM DETERMINE THIS, THIS ONE'S GOOD, THAT ONE'S NO GOOD, IS A DIFFICULT TASK, WOULD YOU THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING.
BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE, 'CAUSE I'M NOT A TRAINED ARCHITECT.
I KIND OF KNOW WHAT I LIKE, AND MOST OF THOSE I WAS KIND OF FINE WITH, BUT RIGHT.
BUT, AND SO, BUT WITH THAT IN MIND, LET ME GO BACK TO THIS.
'CAUSE THIS IS, WELL, SORRY, WRONG WAY.
'CAUSE THIS IS WHERE I THOUGHT WE COULD BRIDGE THAT GAP RIGHT HERE.
MATERIALS THAT ARE ALLOWED, MATERIALS THAT ARE NOT ALLOWED, STRUCTURE AND ROOFING.
THOSE THINGS I CAN TOUCH, WE CAN FEEL, YOU KNOW, IT IS TANGIBLE, RIGHT? IT'S NOT IN THE ARTSY FARY, YOU KNOW, ETHEREAL BLUE.
I CAN SAY, HEY, YOU CAN'T USE CMU BLOCK, YOU CAN'T USE METAL.
IF WE GO FOR THAT, LIKE NABILA WANTS, WE CAN'T, WHATEVER, RIGHT? JUST, BUT THESE ARE THE THINGS, IF WE'RE GONNA HONE, GET OUR ARMS RUNNING AND SAY, HEY, LET'S MAKE IT THIS, DEFEND YOURSELF
THIS IS, THIS IS WHERE I THINK WE SHOULD, SHOULD, THIS IS WHERE THE QUOTE UNQUOTE COMPATIBILITY STUFF SHOULD LAND, I THINK.
RIGHT? AND, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIMITED TO THOSE FOUR.
THERE MAY BE OTHER THINGS, BUT THIS IS JUST MY THOUGHTS, RIGHT? OUT OF THE, THE BOX.
BUT EVEN ON HERE, LIKE LOOK, UNDER A ROOFING, THERE'S STILL POINT ROOFING MATERIALS SHALL BE MATCHED, OR COMP ROOF MATERIALS SHALL MATCH
[00:50:01]
OR COMPLIMENT THE ROOFING OF THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE NOW.AND SO DON'T TELL ME, GOSH, THESE, I WAS GONNA SAY, LOOK AT THE LAWYER.
SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS COMPLIMENT THE ROOFING OF HIS EXISTING STRUCTURE.
THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH.
SOMEONE ELSE WILL SAY, NO, THAT'S NOT, WHAT ARE YOU CRAZY.
BUT, UH, WELL, THAT'S MY CHALLENGE.
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M, YEAH.
HOW TO REMOVE THE SUBJECTIVITY.
BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF AMBIGUOUS LANGUAGE IN, IN THIS THAT'S, UM, A MATTER OF OPINION.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE, WHERE WE NEED TO KIND OF AVOID THOSE FLOWERY WORDS.
UM, I, I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO SAY, UM, IT NEEDS TO LOOK GOOD, BUT QUITE HONESTLY, WE, WE CAN'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT LOOKS GOOD FOR THE SAME REASON THAT WE CAN'T SAY, WE DON'T WANT YOU TO PAINT YOUR HOUSE NEON GREEN.
UM, SO MY POINT WAS USING BUILDING STANDARDS IN ORDER TO MAKE CARPORTS FOLLOW THAT AESTHETIC THAT WE WANT SOME SORT OF AESTHETICS.
RIGHT? AND, AND, AND WE HAVE TO AGREE HERE TODAY, IF WE CAN, RIGHT.
WHETHER WE ALL AGREE OR NOT, IF WE, YOU KNOW, TO COVER TWO CARS, IT, IT'S A NO BRAINER THAT YOU, YOU NEED TO AT LEAST BE 400 SQUARE FEET IF WE MAKE THAT, IF WE AGREE.
THEN WE ALSO HAVE TO AGREE THAT THAT 400 SQUARE FOOT CARPORT, IT'S NOT GONNA, IT'S GONNA DWARF THE STRUCTURE THAT IT'S ATTACHED TO.
BUT IN, IN MANY OF THOSE CASES THAT YOU SHOWED TODAY, THOSE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ERECTED.
UM, MOST OF THEM ARE IN GRASS, AND EVEN THAT ONE SPILLED OVER THE DRIVEWAY AND HAD HALF A CAR WIDTH IN THE GRASS, AND THEY WERE PARKED ON THE GRASS AND THE DRIVEWAY.
SO MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING, INSTEAD OF SAYING A SQUARE FOOTAGE, MAYBE THERE'S A SQUARE FOOTAGE ASSOCIATED WITH THE WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY, OR RIGHT.
LET'S SEE, RIGHT HERE IN THE ONE I HAVE UP HERE, YOU SEE HOW THEY EXTENDED THE DRIVEWAY IN, UH, OVER, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ADDED TO THEIR DRIVEWAY COURSE IN ORDER TO DO IT.
AS OPPOSED TO THE THIS ONE THAT'S IN THE GRASS.
BECAUSE EVENTUALLY, I ASSUME, AND YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS THE START OF THE NEW YEAR, BUT EVENTUALLY, I'M SURE THAT'S GONNA ALL BE CONCRETE, BUT I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
SO TO ME, THE, AND, AND EVEN ON THIS ONE, AND, AND MAYBE THERE'S, IF THERE'S AN EXISTING GARAGE, THE CARPORT CANNOT EXTEND PAST THE WIDTH OF THE GARAGE.
THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE KIND OF DESIGN STANDARDS I'M TALKING ABOUT TO FORCE THINGS TO NOT GET TO THIS POINT.
BECAUSE, BECAUSE, AND, AND, AND I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING MM-HMM
BUT, UH, KEEP IN MIND IF THOSE GARAGES, I THINK ARE, WHAT, 10 FEET, MAYBE EIGHT FEET IN WIDTH, IF I'M GONNA SPEND MONEY TO PROTECT MY CARS, IS, YOU KNOW, IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH THE EFFORT TO DO ALL OF THAT.
SO ANYWAY, JUST, JUST SHARING, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING, YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF EXPANDING YOUR GARAGE AND EXPANDING YOUR HOME.
UM, BUT, BUT, BUT I, I DO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM IN THIS CASE, RIGHT? LET'S LOOK AT THE ONE IN FRONT OF US NOW.
THEY, THEY, EXPANSION IS LIMITED BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ON THE PROPERTY LINE ON THIS SIDE AND, AND THE HOME IS ON THAT SIDE, SO MM-HMM
YOU KNOW, WOULD THEY DO A, A, A TANDEM GARAGE WITH BOTH CARS IN, YOU KNOW, ONE AFTER THE OTHER? I DON'T KNOW.
AND YOU KNOW, WHO KNOW, THEY MAY DO THAT IN THE FUTURE, BUT I'M, I'M JUST SAYING, AND AGAIN, I'M LOOKING AT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE, AND I, I THINK, AND I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE, UH, YOU KNOW, A YEAR OR SO, BUT I, I GET THE SENSE THAT THIS COUNCIL, YOU GUYS ARE ALWAYS, UH, WANTING TO MAKE SURE WHAT, WHAT WE DO DOESN'T JUST HAMMER THE, THE, THE CITIZENS, RIGHT? AND SO I THINK IF WE DID THAT TO LIMIT IT JUST TO THE WIDTH OF THE GARAGE, BECAUSE THE REASON WHY WE'RE DOING THE TWO CAR CARPORT IS BECAUSE THAT WAS THE, THE GARAGE WAS BUILT YESTERDAY.
IF A HOME WAS BUILT TODAY, IT WOULD BE 16 FEET WIDE OR 20 FEET WIDE, RIGHT? SO ANYWAY, JUST, JUST SHARING MY THOUGHTS EVEN OF GUTTERS,
I MEAN, THIS IS, THIS IS, THAT'S WHY I SHOWED THESE ARE, IT'S WELL DESIGNED.
YOU SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON WOOD ON THAT THING.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S NOT CHEAPLY BUILT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WELL, THAT MONEY DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT SOMETHING'S NICE.
RIGHT? NOR DOES IT ADD TO THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY.
[00:55:01]
CAN'T BE ALL THING, RIGHT? MM-HMMSO JUST BECAUSE THEY WANT A CARPORT, THEY WANNA COVER TWO CARS, DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE PARTICULAR HOME HANDLE THAT.
I MEAN, IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS SAYING, WELL, I WANT A POOL.
I DON'T CARE IF I HAVE A BACKYARD OR NOT.
I'M PUTTING IN A POOL, PUT IT IN THE FRONT YARD.
OR WITH, JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO DO SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT.
AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, WE DO HAVE A LOT OF THIS OLD, WHAT, WHEN THEY LOOKED THAT HOUSE UP ONLINE BEFORE THEY EVER WENT AND EVEN DROVE BY IT, THEY KNEW HOW MANY GARAGES IT HAD.
THEY KNEW HOW MANY CARS IT WAS, KNEW THAT BEFORE THEY GO.
AND I MEAN, IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHEN SOMEONE COMES TO US WITH A CLEAN CASE.
AND SO I BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY.
I KNEW WHAT THE ZONING WAS, BUT IF YOU DON'T LET ME DO THIS OVER HERE, THEN I'M NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO KEEP IT.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? YOU, YOU BOUGHT WHAT YOU BOUGHT, YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN YOUR MIND THAT IT'S GONNA BE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU PURCHASED.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION THEN? I APOLOGIZE.
I, I THINK I MISSED THE SCOPING MEETING, SO IF I'M ASKING A REDUNDANT QUESTION, I APOLOGIZE.
BUT IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL IN THIS WHERE WE ARE, IS IT THE ULTIMATE GOAL TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THE CARPORT WAS BUILT ORIGINALLY WITH THE, THE STYLE AND TYPE OF HOUSE THAT WOULD BE PREFERRED? SO I THINK ONE OF THE SLIDES THAT YOU HAVE, IT TAKES, YOU HAVE TWO GOALS, I THINK.
AND THEN THE OTHER ONE WOULD BE WHAT? THE OTHER ONE IS TRYING TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GONNA ALLOW 'EM ANYWAY, ALLOW WHAT WAS DONE PREVIOUSLY.
AND, AND I WOULD THINK A THIRD PROBLEM IS, IS WHETHER IT WAS BUILT WITH OR WITHOUT A PERMIT, AND IT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE, IS THE CONDITION THAT THEY'RE IN, SOME OF THAT ARE NOT IN GREAT CONDITION.
AND SO IF WE GO AND, AND, AND TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND WE'LL DISCOVER IF IT'S PERMITTED OR NOT, THEN WE'LL BE AT A FORK IN THE ROAD OF DO WE ASK HIM TO TEAR IT DOWN OR DO WE, WHATEVER.
BUT, SO I, I THINK ONE OF THE SLIDES ATTEMPTS, THE WAY I I INTERPRET IT IS, IS THAT, UM, SOME OF THOSE LOOK VERY NICE AND, BUT THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT THE SAME MATERIAL, NOT THE SAME ROOF HEIGHT.
THEY'RE NOT, THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE THEY WERE BUILT EVEN THOUGH THE HOUSE MIGHT HAVE BUILT IN 1959.
IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT WAS THE ONE THAT YOU POINTED OUT THAT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS BUILT WITH THE HOUSE.
IT FOLLOWS, AND IT, AS SIMPLE AS IT IS, IT APPEARS, IT LOOKS TO THE BEST OF ALL OF THEM.
LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN WE, WHEN, UM, JASON WILL HEIGHTS GROUP GOES IN AND, AND DOES INFILL HOUSING, THEY TRY REALLY, REALLY HARD TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE HOME THAT THAT IS BRAND NEW IS IN THE VERNACULAR OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND IT, ALBEIT IT'S NEWER AND FRESHER, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S THE WRONG, IT'S ANACHRONISM OUT OF TIME IN, IN THE WRONG NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND SO, IF THAT'S HOW I'M INTERPRETING, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT WE WANNA MAKE IT LOOK NICE.
IT NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE IT WAS BUILT ORIGINALLY.
UM, PERSONALLY, I DON'T CARE THAT EVERY HOUSE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD LOOKS THE SAME.
UM, WELL, I MEAN THAT, THAT THE, THE CARPORT LOOKS LIKE THE HOUSE, RIGHT? MY INTENTION IS JUST ON THIS ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY, UM, TO MAKE THINGS AESTHETICALLY PLEASING.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO PUT IT.
UM, SO, UM, SO WE DON'T GO OFF ON A TANGENT.
I WANT TO KIND OF GO STEP BY STEP.
SO IF YOU'LL GO BACK TO YOUR PROPOSED LANGUAGE, UM, I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE, UH, YOUR, I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW FIRST.
UM, I THINK THAT WILL HELP US GO IN A BETTER DIRECTION WITH ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT.
SO, UM, COMMITTEE, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT AL'S PROPOSITION
THIS IS RIGHT OUTTA THE GDC CURRENTLY, BUT METAL CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THE FRONT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, IN THE FRONT OF THE SIDE, WHICH MEANS NOT IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
SO IF I'M IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT WAY, I DON'T WANT SEE NO.
SO WHAT I SIMPLY DID IS SAY, HEY, IT'S JUST GOTTA BE COMPATIBLE.
RIGHT? AGAIN, AND AS I SAID EARLIER, BECAUSE WHERE THESE ARE, ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST WANTING TO, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW QUITE HOW TO SAY IT WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, JUST PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST TRYING TO, I JUST WANNA COVER MY CAR.
I, I DON'T WANT TO, I JUST WANNA COVER MY CAR, WHATEVER.
RIGHT? SO YOU SEE MORE CARPORTS AND LOWER INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND SO THE, THE, MY, UH, APPROACH IS TO SAY, OKAY, INSTEAD OF JUST NOW GRANTED DOWN HERE, I SAY, HEY, WE, WE DO ALLOW SOME MATERIALS BECAUSE WHEN WE ARE TRYING TO SAY THAT THE HOUSE HAS TO, HAS SOMEHOW MEET THE CONTEXT OF THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE.
WELL, WE CAN LOOK AT MATERIALS, WE CAN LOOK AT
[01:00:01]
MATERIALS WE WANT, WE CAN LOOK AT MATERIALS WE WON'T ALLOW.WE CAN TALK ABOUT STRUCTURING, WE CAN TALK ABOUT ROOFING.
I THINK WE CAN DO THOSE THINGS, RIGHT? BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THE VERY FIRST ONE SAYS, HEY, CAR PUTS CONSTRUCTED ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY SHALL BE COMPATIBLE.
THERE'S THAT MAGICAL WORD WITH THE PRINCIPLE STRUCTURE WITH RESPECT TO MATERIALS, COLOR AND HEIGHT.
AGAIN, THINGS THAT I THINK WE CAN TOUCH AND FEEL THE DESIGNING CHARACTER, THERE'S THOSE STRANGE WORDS OF THE, OF THE PROPOSED CARPET SHALL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD AESTHETICS.
THAT'S KIND OF, I DON'T WANNA SAY NEBULOUS BECAUSE EVERYONE KIND OF KNOWS WHAT THAT MEANS, BUT EVERYONE CAN'T ACHIEVE OR GET TO THAT POINT.
AND WE HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT WE, WE KNOW THAT.
SO, WELL, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE BUILDING A CARPORT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO BUILD A GARAGE.
SO, AND IN THAT SAME VEIN, I WOULD SAY TO YOUR POINT, THAT IS EXACTLY WHY, UH, THEY'RE, THAT'S EXACTLY WHY YOU HAVE I IS SITUATIONS LIKE, UH, I'M GONNA GO TO THE REAL ONE.
'CAUSE THE ONE YOU MADE LIKE THIS, RIGHT? CLEARLY IT'S GONNA DWARF THE, THE, THE PRINCIPLE STRUCTURE BEHIND IT.
NOW THIS IS KIND OF VERY ARTSY, FAR TOO, WHATEVER.
AND IT COULD HAVE, EVEN IF I MADE IT A LITTLE LOWRISE OR WHATEVER, IT WOULD STILL BE, UH, KIND OF WHAT YOU AND I WOULD SAY THAT'S AN OBSTRUCTION IN FRONT OF THAT PRETTY, BECAUSE LOOK AT THE PROPERTY, IT'S WELL MAINTAINED AS WELL.
I'M DON'T, RARELY DID I SEE THIS WELL KEPT PROPERTY, BUT IT, BUT SOMEONE CARES, RIGHT? AND SO THEY WANTED TO COVER TWO CARS, AND THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN DO IT, EVEN IF YOU DID, EVEN IF IT WAS A FLAT ROOF OR, OR A SLIGHTLY SLOPE ROOF, IT WAS STILL, SOMEONE WOULD SAY, OH MY GOSH, THAT'S AN EYESORE IN FRONT OF THIS 1950S, YOU KNOW, HOME.
SO WE, I JUST WANT YOU TO BE COGNIZANT OF THAT.
WHEN, WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT, UH, LOOKING AT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW WE WANT TO PROCEED.
SO THERE WAS ONE LINE, AND I THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE PREVIOUS SLIDE TO THIS ONE QUARTER, THIS ONE, UH, OR BEFORE, NO, YEAH, THAT WAS IT.
IT WAS THE LAST, UH, SEVEN CARPORTS, CANOPIES AND PORTICO SHARES CONSTRUCTED PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE ORDINANCE SHALL BE CONSIDERED LEGALLY NONCONFORMING STRUCTURES AND MAY REMAIN IN PLACE UNLESS DEEMED HAZARDOUS OR SUBSTANTIALLY ALTERED.
THAT'S, THAT'S YOUR ASK, RIGHT? THAT'S MY ASK.
AND THERE'S OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT.
AND I'M, I, I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT I WOULD ADD TO THAT IF THIS WERE SOMETHING THAT THE COMMITTEE WANTED TO BRING TO COUNCIL, UM, I WOULD ADD DISREPAIR TO THAT SO THAT YOU COULD INCORPORATE, IT'S NOT PAINTED, IT'S, UH, RUSTY.
IT'S, UH, FALLING, I MEAN, DISREPAIR COVERS A LOT.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF MAYBE THAT'S EVEN TOO AMBIGUOUS.
MAYBE WE NEED TO ACTUALLY PUT WORDS LIKE UNPAINTED OR RUSTED OR, I SAY DISREPAIR IS ARE GREAT WORDS.
MOSTLY HAPPY BECAUSE YOU'RE SUPPORTING NUMBER SEVEN, SO IT'S GREAT.
SO WE CAN, WE CAN KEEP METAL IN THE OTHER ONE.
I DUNNO IF THE GONNA GONNA LIKE THAT, BUT YES.
SO, UM, WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK ABOUT, LET'S, LET'S JUST START WITH THIS ONE PART RIGHT HERE, NUMBER SEVEN.
AND I THINK THAT ADDING DISREPAIR IS A RIGHT THING TO DO.
I THINK THAT GIVES STAFF A LITTLE MORE LEEWAY TO, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVE TO GO AND LOG EVERY SINGLE CARPORT IN THE CITY OF GARLAND.
UM, BUT ALSO GIVES CODE COMPLIANCE ENOUGH TEETH TO DO THEIR JOB.
SO I'VE GOT A QUESTION THOUGH.
IF YOU COULD GO BACK TO THE ONE WHERE YOU LISTED OUT LIKE MATERIAL AND STUFF.
I, I WANNA MAKE SURE COMMITTEE'S IN AGREEANCE ON SEVEN FIRST BEFORE WE MOVE ON.
ARE YOU GUYS GOOD WITH THAT? OKAY.
NOW TO DESIGN QUESTION ON THIS ONE IS, COMPARED TO THE SLIDE WE WERE JUST ON, UM, TALKING ABOUT, UH, STRUCTURE ON HERE WE HAVE CARPORT SHELBY DESIGNED BY REGISTERED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL.
ON THE OTHER ONE, WE HAVE THE CAVEAT, YOU KNOW, OR MEET LOADS, SPAN SPECIFICATIONS.
RIGHT? BUT OUT HERE I SAY ONLY DESIGN IF IT'S ATTACHED.
RIGHT, BECAUSE I, I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S A, A HIGHER RISK IF IT'S ATTACHED BECAUSE IT CAN NOW DAMAGE THE STRUCTURE.
I KNOW IN, UM, JUST HAD ONE RECENTLY IN PLANO FOR A, UM, NOT FOR A CARPORT, BUT FOR A PATIO COVERING WHERE TALKS ABOUT,
[01:05:01]
UM, STRUCTURE GO, JUST THE MANNER IN WHICH, SO ATTACHED TO THE, EVEN NOT TO THE SIDE.SO IT, AND ARE YOU SAYING THAT IT, THE, THE SPECIFICATIONS OF DIRECTIONS OR WHATEVER THE CODE REQUIREMENTS ARE, THEY ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR DESIGN PROFESSIONAL.
THEY, BUT THEY GO IN DETAIL ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD ATTACH IT, RIGHT, EXACTLY.
MEETING LOAD SPAN SPECIFICATIONS AND ALSO HOW IT'S ATTACHED TO THAT AND, AND YOU'RE MAKING RECOMMENDATION THAT WE DO SOMETHING SIMILAR, BECAUSE AGAIN, AND I THINK I KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING.
I MEAN, 'CAUSE LIKE IN MY, IN MY BUSINESS I DO CARPORTS, BUT I DO PATIO A LOT OF GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT.
THAT WAY PEOPLE AREN'T HAVING TO SPEND MONEY AND TIME
I STILL DON'T THINK CARPORTS SHOULD BE ERECTED IN GRASS.
AND THEN, AND THAT MAY EVEN NEED TO GO BACK ON NUMBER SEVEN, BUT THEN THE QUESTION ON THAT IS WHAT, OKAY, SO
AND IF THEY EXPAND THEIR DRIVEWAY BY ADDING A LITTLE PIECE OF CONCRETE, THEN THEY'RE EXPANDING THEIR DRIVEWAY AND THEY'VE ALREADY MUSHED UP THE PROCESS BECAUSE THEY GOT A DRIVEWAY EXPANSION WITHOUT A PERMIT.
WELL, BUT IF YOU GO, LIKE, LOOK AT ONE OF THE PICTURES WHERE ONE OF THE POSTS IN, OH, THAT LAST ONE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.
SO YOU CAN SEE, LOOK, THAT'S NOT EXPANDING THE DRIVEWAY, RIGHT? THAT'S JUST A LITTLE
SO IS THAT OKAY? NO, THAT'S NOT OKAY.
SO HOW DO WE, SO IT HAS TO BE ERECTED IN THE EXISTING CONCRETE.
YOU CAN'T EXISTING IN THE EXISTING CONCRETE SLAB IN THE EXISTING DRIVE.
I THINK GET A PERMIT AND JUST PAVE IT.
AND THEN, I MEAN IF THERE'S, IF ISN'T THERE A RATIO OF DRIVEWAY TO FRONT YARD THAT THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN OPEN SPACE? AND IS THERE OPEN SPACE CLEARANCE FOR RESIDENTIAL LOTS? DO WE HAVE OPEN SPACE CLEARANCE? CAN BE MORE, YOU KNOW, THAT PEOPLE JUST DON'T COME IN AND CONCRETE EVERYTHING.
IT'S, THERE'S A, IT CAN'T BE MORE THAN 50%, RIGHT? WELL, IT'S NOT, OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS ARE NOT PER LOT AT THE LOT COVERAGE, BUT DRIVEWAYS CONSIDER LOT COVERAGE.
WE HAVE, WE HAVE A DRIVE DRIVEWAY RULE THOUGH, AND IT CAN'T BE OF YOUR FRONT OF YOUR FRONT YARD.
SO IF THEY'RE GOING IN AND THEY'RE ADDING ENOUGH DRIVEWAY TO, I MEAN, THEY ADDED ONTO THIS, THEY ADDED THAT WHOLE
YOU CAN TELL, UM, GOLLY, IT'S SO FRUSTRATING.
AND THIS HOUSE, THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR, THAT'S NOT A, YOU KNOW, 800 SQUARE FOOT, 1950S HOME EITHER.
THAT'S A 1100 SQUARE FOOT, 1960S HOME.
WE ONLY GOT ABOUT 40,000 OF THOSE
THAT'S A NAME HUNDRED IN A LONG TIME.
BUT IF THE GRASS EXTENDS UNDER THE CARPORT, THAT'S SOMETHING VERY EASY TO IDENTIFY.
AND SO THIS ONE CLEARLY, YOU KNOW, THE INSPECTOR ON HIS FIRST DAY CAN TELL WHETHER THE GRASS IS GOING UNDER THE CARPORT.
AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, CLEARLY.
AND THEN THE CAN LIMIT IT THAT WAY OR, OR SET ANOTHER WAY.
I THINK THE OVERHANG LOOKS LIKE IT'S 18 INCHES OR WHATEVER.
THEY COULD HAVE JUST MOVED THE POST IN BECAUSE IT LOOKED ENOUGH SPACE TO HAVE TWO CARS COME FULLY FIT UNDER IT.
IT MADE IT WIDE BECAUSE
AND BECAUSE TO NO FAULT OF ANYONE'S, WE ARE, WE ARE TRYING TO FIT A SOLUTION INTO EVERY DECADE OF HOME BUILDING.
WE HAVE ALL OF THE DECADES OF HOME BUILDING.
AND WHEN THE CODES ARE DIFFERENT, THE STYLES ARE DIFFERENT.
IF I WERE HIM, I WOULDN'T DRILL, I WOULDN'T DRILL WITHIN TWO FEET OF THE EDGE OF THAT TO PUT
[01:10:01]
MY POST IN.IT, IT, IT DEMOLISHED THAT WHOLE SIDE OF THE, OF THE DRIVEWAY.
CAN HE'D HAVE TO EXPAND IT? CAN WE MAKE ANY KIND OF RULE ABOUT, UM, SOMEONE HAS A CARPORTS BEING LIMITED? I THINK IT'S NET.
WE ALREADY, WE HAVE NOW, IF SOMEONE WANTS VERTA GARAGE, THEY HAVE TO BUILD A GARAGE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
SO WE WON'T HAVE THE CASE WHERE SOMEONE'S LIKE, I MEAN, THEY HAVE TWO, RIGHT? SO THIS A TWO CAR GARAGE RIGHT THERE.
THESE PEOPLE HAVE A TWO CAR GARAGE.
THEY HAVE A GAME ROOM IN THERE.
THEY GOT SOMETHING IN THERE, BAR SOMETHING.
RIGHT? IT'S THEIR HOME THEATER.
I GET ALL THE TIME MY CAR GOT RAN INTO, 'CAUSE IT WAS PARKED ON THE STREET.
WELL, WHY DIDN'T YOU PARK IT IN YOUR GARAGE? WELL, THAT'S MY WORKSHOP OR THAT'S WHERE I PARKED MY MOTORCYCLE COLLECTION.
SO IT'S LIKE WE MAKE ANY KIND OF A RULE THAT A CARPORT CAN ONLY BE BUILT IF THERE'S NO GARAGE.
SO THE COURTS COUNSEL CAN DO WHATEVER.
BUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT, ALAN, WHETHER I HAVE ONE CAR GARAGE TOOK A RESIDE, I, I CAN, I CAN'T QUITE REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I CAN'T DO THIS.
ALTHOUGH I CAN DRIVE AROUND GARLAND AND SEE IT DONE EVERYWHERE.
THE THE, THE OBVIOUS QUESTION IS WHY.
WELL SEE THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH LETTING EVERYBODY UNTIL NOW YEAH.
AND IF WE DON'T FIX IT NOW, WHEN ARE WE GONNA FIX IT? SO I WANT TO, I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND.
COUNCILMAN, SAY WHAT YOU JUST SAID AGAIN.
SO, SO I I I DON'T SEE THE NEED FOR A CARPORT IF SOMEBODY HAS A GARAGE TO PARK THE CAR.
SO YOU'RE SAYING, SO LOOK AT THE PICTURE HERE.
YOU'RE SAYING, HEY, THAT GUY HAS WHAT, NO MATTER WHAT'S BEHIND THOSE GARAGE DOORS, I DON'T CARE.
BUT, BUT YOU'RE SAYING, HEY, YOU HAVE TWO CAR GARAGE, YOU DON'T NEED A CARPORT.
WE WE'RE NOT GOING GO TO THAT LEVEL.
ARE WE
BUT WHO DOES THAT? I, I GUARANTEE YOU.
NOW GRANTED, ESPECIALLY IN SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I, YOU KNOW, I, IN CORPUS CREEK WHERE I LIVED FOR SIX YEARS, I HAD A HOME THAT WAS BUILT IN 1964, HAD A TWO GUARD GARAGE, AND I PARKED BOTH MY CARS IN THERE.
I HAD A JEEP IN AND MY EURA, RIGHT? BUT I WENT TO ALL MY NEIGHBORS AND FRIENDS.
EVERYBODY HAD STUFF, JUST STUFF.
AND I GUARANTEE YOU, IF YOU GO TO HOME AFTER HOME AFTER HOME, NOBODY USES THEIR GARAGE.
VERY FEW PEOPLE USE THEIR GARAGE JUST FOR THEIR CARS.
THEY JUST PUT STUFF IN THERE BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE MORE STUFF EVERY DAY.
SO MY MY POINT IS, IF YOU MAKE, IF WE AGREE TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT IS, THAT'S VERY RESTRICTIVE, I THINK.
BUT JEFF'S GONNA ORGANIZE THE WHOLE CITY.
IT'S STILL MY PREROGATIVE TO DO IT.
THAT'S ALL I, THAT'S ALL GET HIM A GARAGE SELL PERMIT.
MY WIFE'S CAR'S NOT IN THE GARAGE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I GOT STUFF IN THERE FROM THE HALL.
I WASN'T THROWING YOU UNDER THE BUS.
SAY YOUR NAME THREE TIMES, CLICK YOUR HAND ON THE OTHER SHE YOUR
I THINK WE'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT.
I DO THINK, UH, LITTLE DIFFERENTLY, BUT FROM A PRACTICAL PURPOSE, OF COURSE, LIKE I'M NOT THINKING OF INSPECTORS THAT ARE GOING OUT THERE AND HAVING TO ENFORCE THINGS.
THAT'S NOT MY FOCUS NECESSARILY.
BUT WHAT YOU SUGGESTED, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND FROM A CODE COMPLIANCE PERSPECTIVE.
I WILL PROVIDE AN EXAMPLE IN ARLINGTON.
UM, THEY DID HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE IT WASN'T TIED TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE A GARAGE OR NOT.
IT WAS TIED TO THE DATE WHEN THE ORDINANCE WAS ADOPTED THAT REQUIRED A TWO CAR GARAGE.
FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S SAY PRIOR TO 2015, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE TWO CAR GARAGE REQUIREMENT.
SO HOMES THAT WERE BILLED PRIOR TO 2015, THEY, AND I'M JUST, I DON'T KNOW THAT, I'M JUST COMING UP WITH THAT.
UM, LET'S SAY THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE TWO CAR GARAGE, BUT HOMES THAT WERE BUILT AFTER 2015, WITH THE CURRENT GDC IN PLACE, THEY SHOULD HAVE A TWO CAR GARAGE.
AND THE PURPOSE OF THE TWO CAR GARAGE IS FOR YOU TO PARK YOUR CAR.
NOW, IF YOU CHOOSE TO STORE YOUR STUFF IN THERE, TO ME THAT SHOULDN'T REALLY WEIGH IN TOO MUCH INTO OUR DECISION MAKING PROCESS.
THAT'S, AGAIN, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.
I, AND I'M THINKING JUST FROM AN AESTHETIC PLANNING PERSPECTIVE,
[01:15:01]
AL'S LOOKING AT IT FROM A MUCH MORE ROBUST, COMPREHENSIVE PERSPECTIVE.SO TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.
UM, SO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I, I WOULDN'T MIND.
UH, BUT AGAIN, I AM FOCUSING FROM A VERY LIMITED PERSPECTIVE.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ON THIS.
CAN I SAY ONE MORE THING? PLEASE? PLEASE.
I THINK WHY IT CAME UP WAS TO KIND OF, NOT RESTRICT, BUT EVALUATE SOME OF THE AESTHETIC ISSUES THAT WE HAVE.
AND BASED ON ALL THE DISCUSSIONS, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF GOING IN AN OPPOSITE DIRECTION.
AND I KNOW I DISAGREED, UM, ON THE LIKE, OH, LET'S MAKE ALL THE NON-CONFORMING KIND OF CONFORMING.
BUT I GET IT, LIKE, LISTENING TO YOU FROM A, FROM AN ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE, I GET THAT, BUT LIKE HAVING A METAL CARPORT IN THE FRONT, AGAIN, TO YOUR POINT, JUST LIKE ZONING CASE, YES, I MAY WANT TO DO IT, BUT DOES IT MEAN WE HAVE TO LET PEOPLE, UH, THERE ARE OTHER WAYS, UM, TO ACHIEVE A SOLUTION TO PARK YOUR CAR IN A COVERED AREA? I, I THINK SO.
AND I REALLY LIKE, LIKE MATERIALS COLOR HEIGHT.
TO ME, THOSE ARE NOT, TO ME, THOSE ARE NOT, UH, SUBJECTIVE.
I CAN SAY IF THE HOUSE IS BRICK, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BRICK WRAP.
IF THE ROOF IS SHINGLES YOUR ROOF, LIKE, I, I THINK THAT'S ACHIEVABLE.
I THINK WE DON'T HAVE TO PUT, UH, IT HAS TO MATCH NEIGHBORHOOD AESTHETICS, BECAUSE THAT IS SUBJECTIVE OF COURSE.
BUT MATERIALS, HEIGHT, ROOF, THOSE TO ME ARE OKAY TO PUT IN THERE.
AND IF PLANNING NEEDS TO BECOME A PART OF THE REVIEW FOR THE CARPORTS, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE THAT ON, UM, AS A, AS AN ADDITIONAL REVIEW.
UH, BUT I, I DO WANNA MAKE SURE, BECAUSE YES, PEOPLE DO NEED IT, BUT ALSO JUST LIKE ZONING, A LOT OF PEOPLE CALL AND SAY, WELL, WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT I CAN OR CANNOT DO IS RESTRICTIVE.
BUT THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF HAVING LOCAL REGULATIONS AND I UNDERSTANDING WHERE PEOPLE, WHAT PEOPLE MAY NEED.
I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE WAYS TO PROVIDE IT TO THEM THAT MAY ALSO MATCH WHAT WE ARE TRY TRYING TO DO.
I, I AND I, YOU ARE VERY TRANSPARENT ABOUT LIKE HOW WE DISCUSSED AND WHERE WE DEFERRED.
SO THAT'S WHY I FELT LIKE IT'S OKAY TO COME IN AND, UM, SHARE MY OPINION.
MAYBE WITH THIS PAGE WE CAN, YOU KNOW, I HAVE MATERIALS, WHAT, WHAT WE LIKE MM-HMM
WE DON'T STRUCTURAL ROOFING, BUT, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.
MATERIALS, COLOR, HEIGHT, THINGS WE CAN TOUCH THAT ARE NOT TANGIBLE.
AND PERHAPS I GO, GO, WE CAN, I CAN JUST REMOVE WORDS LIKE COMPATIBLE AND, AND MM-HMM.
AND YEAH, WE CAN JUST SAY MATCH THINGS AND, AND I JUST USE YEAH.
HOWEVER, WHAT, WHAT THE COUNCILMAN WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE STUFF LIKE THIS, I, I, I KNOW YOU WERE JUST, I THINK COUNCIL COUNCILMAN BASH, YOU WERE JUST KIND OF THROWING SOMETHING OUT THERE ON THE WALL TO SEE IF IT WOULD STICK.
BUT CLEARLY YOU'RE NOT SAYING, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THIS IS A ONE, A ONE, UH, ONE KIND OF ONE CAR GARAGE.
RIGHT? AND THE GUY, OBVIOUSLY, HE OBVIOUSLY HAS TWO VEHICLES THAT HE WANTS TO COVER YOU.
I KNOW YOU'RE JUST TALKING FOR THE GROUP, BUT YOU CLEARLY YOU DON'T REALLY WANT TO DO THAT.
I I TO DO TO WHAT? TO TELL THEM THAT, TO SAY, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, A, UH, IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE I, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE ALLUDING TO OR WHERE YOU'RE ALLUDING TO IF I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, IS THAT HEY, YOU CAN, TO, TO KEEP, TO MAKE IT MATCH, IT HAS TO ONLY BE ONE FOR ONE CAR.
OR IF YOU HAVE TWO, IF YOU HAVE A TWO CAR GARAGE, YOU DON'T, YOU CAN'T DO A CARPORT.
I MEAN, ON THIS ONE, IN ORDER FOR IT TO, TO MATCH IT WOULD ONLY BE ONE.
THE WIDTH WOULD HAVE TO MATCH THE GARAGE.
AND IT IS CLEAR, LIKE IF THIS HAD COME TO US FOR REVIEW, WE WOULD SAY THE MATERIALS DON'T MATCH.
AND WHAT WAS THE OTHER ONE? THE ROOFING.
I CAN'T TELL THE ROOFING, BUT IT'S ON THE, IT'S ON THE PROPERTY LINE.
SO ONE THING MATCHES, SO WE HAVE TO PUT, AND IT'S IT'S MATERIALS, COLOR AND HEIGHT.
I'M, I'M OKAY WITH THE RESTRICTIONS.
AND AGAIN, IF, AND I DO REALLY FEEL, AND THE MORE I THINK ABOUT THIS, THE MORE I, THE MORE I FEEL THIS WAY THAT IF THERE IS AN EXISTING GARAGE, THEN THERE'S NO NEED FOR A CARPORT BECAUSE IT'S NOT UP TO ME TO SAY, IT'S UP TO THE HOMEOWNER TO DECIDE WHERE THEIR PRIORITIES ARE.
SO THEY'RE PRIORITIZING THE CRAP IN THEIR GARAGE OVER
[01:20:01]
THEIR CAR, THEN THAT'S FINE.THEIR CAR CAN SIT IN THE DRIVEWAY.
BUT IT'S NOT UP TO ME TO SAY IT'S OKAY FOR YOU TO PRIORITIZE JUNK OVER YOUR CAR.
THERE'S 400 BUCKS OF JUNK IN THE GARAGE AND A 40,000 CAR YEAH.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING? AND IF YOU KNOW THERE'S HAIL IN THE FORECAST, THAT MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO CLEAN UP THE GARAGE AND GET THE CAR IN.
THAT THAT COULD BE A, AN INCENTIVE.
MY, YOU KNOW, I, I HEAR YOU VERY CLEARLY.
I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT I'LL DO EXACTLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AND YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE IN TEXAS.
IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A PROPERTY RIGHTS STATE TO, TO MAKE A STATEMENT LIKE THAT, THEY WOULD CRUCIFY YOU, RIGHT? YEP.
HOWEVER, SOMEONE LIKE, YOU KNOW, TO GO KNOCK ON SOMEONE'S DOOR AND SAY, YOU CAN'T, OR SOMEONE COMES OUT TO A PERMIT AND SAY, YOU, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
WHY? BECAUSE CARPORTS ARE NOT ALLOWED, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A TWO CAR GARAGE.
WHAT'S THAT? DOING ANYTHING, YOU KNOW? ANYWAY.
I KNOW WE JUST, WE'RE JUST KIND OF BRAINSTORMING HERE.
BUT, BUT ANYWAY, I I JUST WANTED TO BRING THIS FORTH AGAIN, ALONG, ALONG THOSE LINES, WHEN WE HAVE, WHEN WE HAVE, UH, NEIGHBORHOODS DEVELOPED, NOW THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE AN HOA THAT TAKES A LOT OF BURDEN OFF OF THE CITY BECAUSE THE HOA CAN BE A LOT MORE RESTRICTIVE.
THAT'S GUARANTEE THE H HOA IS GONNA HAVE RESTRICTION AGAINST CARPORTS.
SO WE DO HAVE THESE THINGS IN PLACE ALREADY BECAUSE, AND, AND I'LL SAY THIS GREAT POINT, EXCELLENT POINT ACTUALLY.
BUT WHEN YOU BUY INTO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU KNOW THAT WHEN I BOUGHT THIS HOUSE, I, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS WHAT IT IS, RIGHT? WELL, AFTER, AFTER WE PUT IT ON THE BOOKS, YOU'LL KNOW IT
SO I, BUT, UH, MAKES YOU FOR YOU, BUT YOU'RE APPRECIATE, APPRECIATED, APPRECIATE.
CAN WE FIND OUT WHEN TWO CAR GARAGES BECAME PART OF THE GDC? WE? I THINK SO.
I THINK IT WAS THE 2015 GDC, BUT WE CAN RESEARCH IT.
UM, SO WE'VE THROWN AROUND A LOT OF IDEAS.
UM, I THINK THAT IF POSSIBLE, NABILA, COULD YOU LOOK AT THE DESIGN STANDARDS AND KIND OF WORK WITH AL, OR, OR IF HE WANTS TO THROW IT AT YOU, UM,
AND ON THE SIDE KIND OF, UM, VISIBLE FROM THE
SO THAT YOU CAN'T BE HIGHER THAN E SO I'M NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH CARPORTS IN THE BACK BECAUSE ALL OF THE CARPORTS IN MY DISTRICT ARE IN THE FRONT
UM, EVERY HOUSE IN MY DISTRICT WAS BUILT BEFORE LIKE, YOU KNOW, 1950
TO SEAN'S POINT, THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY EXIST.
I KNOW THEY DO, BUT IT'S ONE, THE ONES THAT WORRY ME THE MOST ARE THE ONES THAT ARE, THAT ARE WON'T WITHSTAND A 20 MILE AN HOUR WIND.
UM, SO I THINK DESHAUN'S POINT, JUST FOR SOME CLARIFICATION, DO WE WANNA TRY TO TACKLE THAT YET OR DO WE WANNA APPLY THE SIMILAR GUIDELINES TO THE REAR? I THINK THEY SHOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY, HONESTLY.
UM, AND, AND MAYBE WITH THE REAR CARPORTS, WE FOCUS MORE ON SAFETY STANDARDS THAN NECESSARILY AESTHETICS, ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S AN ALLEY.
UM, BUT IF, YOU KNOW, IF I LIVE NEXT DOOR TO SOMEONE WHO PUTS CARPORT IN THEIR BACKYARD AND I HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT THING ALL THE TIME AND IT'S UGLY, THAT'S GONNA UPSET ME.
SO, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE, I THINK THE SAME AESTHETICS NEED TO CARRY THROUGH, BUT THEY'RE, WE DO DEFINITELY HAVE TO HAVE SOME SAFETY STANDARDS BECAUSE MOST OF THOSE ARE ATTACHED TO THE HOME AND SH YOU KNOW, UM, I DON'T KNOW.
THERE'S ALWAYS FENCES ON EITHER SIDE OF THEM.
I FEEL LIKE THOSE CAN BURN EASILY AND THERE MAY BE SOME EXISTING THINGS THAT JUST BECOME AN ENFORCEMENT.
THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE STORE CHEMICALS AND, AND ALL THE THINGS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, I'M, I'M NOT JOKING.
THEY PUT PAINT CANS AND STUFF.
THAT'S WHERE THEY PUT THEIR BARBECUE PITS AND UM, THAT'S NOT SAFE
SO LET'S, LET'S CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION NEXT TIME, UM, WITH SOME MORE STUFF AND WE WILL, YOU KNOW, BANG IT AROUND AGAIN, A LITTLE MORE
[01:25:01]
UM, IT IS SIX 11 AND I AM CALLING THIS MEETING ADJOURNED