[00:00:02]
UM, APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME SPEAK WITH THE TIM COMMITTEE THIS AFTERNOON CONCERNING BOTH THE DRAINAGE PARTICIPATION PROGRAM AND THE ALLEY PARTICIPATION PROGRAM.
BOTH OF THESE PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN INSTITUTED WITHIN THE CITY OF GARLAND FOR AS FAR BACK AS I CAN REMEMBER EVER SINCE I I STARTED WITH THE CITY.
UM, I DO WANT TO GO THROUGH A FEW THINGS THAT ARE CHANGING AND WITH, WITH REGARDS TO THESE PROGRAMS. AND I APOLOGIZE, I HAVE THESE COMPLETELY IN OPPOSITE ORDER WITH THE DRAINAGE FIRST.
IS THAT AN ISSUE? YOU WANT ME TO GO STRAIGHT TO THE ALLEY? WE CAN DO ITEM THREE.
I, I HAD 'EM JUST THAT DIRECT IN THAT ORDER AND I, BUT I CAN, I CAN MOVE ON.
SO, BUT, UM, THE DRAINAGE PARTICIPATION PROGRAM IS THAT OF WHAT YOU SEE ON IN THE PHOTOS TO THE, TO THE RIGHT.
IT'S BASICALLY EROSION ALONG CREEK BANKS THAT PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE ISSUES WITH UP AND DOWN DUCK CREEK AND ALL THE TRIBUTARIES ALONG DUCK CREEK.
THERE'S SOME ALONG SPRING CREEK AND ETTE CREEK AND THEIR TRIBUTARIES.
AND, UM, THEY, THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO CONTACT THE CITY OVER THE YEARS AND REQUEST A PARTICIPATION PROJECT THAT WE'VE HAD ON THE BOOKS, UH, WHERE THE CITY SPLITS WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS.
AS YOU CAN SEE ON ITEM THREE THERE, 50 50 COST SHARE WITH RESIDENTIAL NON-PROFIT AND NON-RESIDENTIAL, OR A 67 33 COST SHARE, WHERE THE CITY, UM, PAYS THE 33% AND THE PROPERTY OWNER PAYS 67% FOR COMMERCIAL.
UH, THESE PROJECTS ARE CONSTRUCTED UTILIZING THE TERM EROSION MITIGATION CONTRACT, WHICH WE BID APPROXIMATELY EVERY THREE YEARS.
WE BID IT ONE YEAR AND THERE'S TWO RENEWAL PERIODS, UM, AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND OR IF WE'VE EXPENDED THE FUNDS AND THERE.
BUT MOST OF THE PROJECTS IN GARLAND CONSIST OF MOSTLY SINGLE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
UM, THERE'S BEEN ONLY A FEW THAT HAVE BEEN A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, BUT VERY FEW.
AND THEN, UH, ONE KEY IS THAT THE PROPERTY OWNERS ASSUME FULL MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITIES AFTER THE EXPIRATION OF THE CONTRACTORS TWO YEAR MAINTENANCE BOND.
SO THAT'S HOW IT CURRENTLY OPERATES IN FUNCTIONS.
WE WENT BACK AND STARTED LOOKING AT SOME INFORMATION THAT WE'VE COLLECTED, UM, DATING BACK TO 2010, THE NUMBER OF REQUESTS THAT WE'VE HAD EACH YEAR, THE NUMBER OF PARTICIPATES, PARTICIPANTS THAT WE'VE HAD, UM, THE MAXIMUM AND MINIMUM OF THOSE, OF THOSE PROJECTS, UH, FOR IN A DOLLAR VALUE IN THE AVERAGE.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, FOR FROM 2010 TO 2020 RELATIVELY, YOU KNOW, AROUND 50,000, $55,000 ON AN AVERAGE COST BETWEEN ALL OF THOSE, AND I'LL SHOW YOU A GRAPHIC HERE IN A LITTLE BIT, THAT MIGHT EXPLAIN IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
THEN IN 2020, WE ALL HAD THAT WONDERFUL, UM, UM, EXPOSURE TO CID AND THEN SHORTLY AFTER THAT, WE STARTED HAVING A LOT OF, UM, PRICES INFLATE WITH CONSTRUCTION COSTS.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE, THE, THE COSTS JUMP SIGNIFICANTLY IN 21 THROUGH 25.
WE REBID THE, WE REBID THE CONTRACT, I BELIEVE IN 2021.
THAT'S THE REASON THAT YOU SEE THE HIGHER COSTS.
AND THEN WE JUST RECENTLY REBID IN 20, THE BEGINNING OF 2025, AND I'LL SHOW YOU HERE ON THE NEXT GRAPH.
UM, WELL, LET ME, LET ME COVER THE, I I HAVEN'T ASTERISK.
WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PARTICIPANTS IN 22, 23 AND 24, UH, BUT WE DID HAVE A COUPLE OF PARTICIPANTS
[00:05:01]
THAT, UM, SIGNED THIS YEAR IN 20 THIS PAST YEAR IN 2025.AND DOWN THERE AT THE BOTTOM ONE WAS A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY FOR A TOTAL OF $82,353 WORTH.
THE CITY WOULD SPLIT BASICALLY HALF THE COST ON THAT 40, WHAT IS THAT? 41? LITTLE OVER 41,000.
THE OTHER PROPERTY IS ACTUALLY A CHURCH, UM, THAT JUST SIGNED, RIGHT, I THINK THEY SIGNED IN DECEMBER.
THEIR COMMITMENT, AND IT IS, THEIR COST OF THEIRS IS GONNA BE 367,325 WITH THE CITY WOULD BE 50% OF THAT COST.
AND SO AVERAGE COST THAT THE CITY WOULD BE PAYING OUT FOR BOTH OF THESE PRO THESE PROPERTIES IS 224 839.
NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT I JUST EXPLAINED ON THE GRAPH ON THE, ON THE, ALL THE INFORMATION, AND WE GRAPHICALLY, UM, AGAIN, FROM 2010 TO 2020, THE AVERAGE COST OF THE PROJECTS WAS, WAS APPROXIMATELY $53,000.
SO JUST OVER $26,000 COMMITMENT FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER AS WELL AS THE CITY.
AND SINCE THEN, YOU'VE SEEN IN THE BLOCK BETWEEN 21 TO 25, THE AVERAGE COST OF A PROJECT IS 244,000.
AND SO THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE.
YOU DO SEE THE, THE TREND DOWNWARD A LITTLE BIT.
UM, BUT AGAIN, WE JUST REBID THE, THE PROJECT OR THE, UH, CONTRACT THIS YEAR.
AND THE COST IN 25 ARE BASED ON THAT NEW CONTRACT.
SO IT DID COME DOWN, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT GOING TO GET BACK DOWN WHERE WE WERE PRE 2021.
UM, PARTICIPANTS AT THE BOTTOM, WE HAD 39 IN, IN THE YEARS FROM 2010 TO 2020, WE HAD 39 PARTICIPANTS OUTTA 78 REQUESTS.
SO WE HAD A 50 50% PARTICIPATION.
SINCE THEN, WE'VE HAD THREE OUTTA 51 REQUESTS, WHICH IS A 6% PARTICIPATION BY THE PROPERTY OWNERS, JUST DUE TO THE SHEER FACT THAT IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE AND IT'S, AND IT IS VERY COSTLY FOR THESE PROPERTY OWNERS.
UM, CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE WERE, WERE WANTING THE TIM TO COMMITTEE TO, TO CONSIDER ON THIS.
WITH, WITH THIS INCREASED COST, THE, THE AVERAGE COST THAT THE CITY WOULD BE EXPENDING IS ABOUT 122 PER PROPERTY THAT'S OUT OF POCKET.
AND THEN THESE PROPERTY OWNERS, BASED ON THE VALUES OF THESE, THE ORDINANCE HAS A SEGMENT IN THERE OR SECTION IN THERE SAYS THEY CAN PAY THIS BACK OVER FIVE YEARS.
SO EVEN IF THEY HAVE THEIR 122, THEIR AVERAGE, THEY COULD PAY THAT BACK OVER FIVE YEARS.
BUT THE, THE CITY STILL FRONTS THE MONEY FOR ALL OF IT AND THEY PAY IT BACK OVER FIVE YEARS WITH, UM, WITH A FAIRLY LOW INTEREST.
IT'S WHATEVER THE INTEREST RATE THAT WE PAY CURRENTLY ON OUR BONDS, AND THAT'S THE INTEREST RATE THAT WE CHARGE THEM.
IT MAY BE AROUND 2.3, 2.5% FROM RECENT YEARS THAT WE'VE CHARGED SOME OF THESE, UM, STAFF TIME SPENT.
THIS IS, THIS IS ONE OF THE ONES I WANTED TO TALK TO THE TIM COMMITTEE ABOUT.
WITH EACH CALL THAT COMES IN, WE WE'RE SPENT EDUCATING THEM ON, ON THE PROGRAM ITSELF.
WE'RE VISITING THE SITE, ASSESSING THE FULL LIMITS OF THE IMPROVEMENTS.
WE GIVE THEM A ROUGH COST TESTIMATE AT THE BEGINNING TO SAY, HERE'S THE BALLPARK THAT YOU WOULD BE NEEDING TO PAY IF YOU WERE TO, TO IN BE INVOLVED IN THIS PROGRAM.
SOME PEOPLE WILL HANG UP IMMEDIATELY SAYING THAT I CAN'T AFFORD THAT.
AND THEY'LL SAY, WELL, CAN WE GET A BETTER COST ESTIMATE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE I WOULD ACTUALLY BE? SO AT THAT POINT, WE TYPICALLY HIRE A CONSULTANT TO GO OUT AND, AND PERFORM THE MEASUREMENTS FOR US.
IT'S NOT A DETAILED DESIGN AT THIS TIME, IT'S JUST TO GET A ROUGH IDEA TO SAY, WE NEED MEASUREMENTS, DEPTH OF CHANNEL, THESE TYPES OF THINGS OF HOW BIG THIS WALL'S GOING TO BE OR THIS EROSION PROTECTION.
AND IN SOME CASES THEY, THEY MAY SAY, YEAH, LET, LET ME, I'M ALL FOR IT.
BUT IN MORE RECENT YEARS, AS YOU CAN SEE BASED ON THIS, IN 22, 23, 24, WE HAD, UM, 11, 9, 12.
SO WE HAD 30 SOME ODD HAD ZERO PARTICIPATION.
SO THESE 11 PEOPLE AND YOU TOLD CORRECT.
AND, AND IN, IN A FEW OF THOSE CASES, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THERE WERE, WE DID A, A MORE DETAILED, UM, STUDY FOR A FEW.
SO THE CITY DID HAVE SOME EXPENSES, STAFF TIME AS WELL AS CONSULTANT TIME TO HIRE A CONSULTANT TO GIVE A MORE DETAILED COST.
THOSE TYPICALLY RUN ANYWHERE FROM 2,500, $3,000 FOR THOSE, FOR THOSE ESTIMATES.
AND WE USUALLY ROLL THAT BACK INTO THE PRO PROJECT.
NOW IF THEY WALK AWAY FROM IT THERE, THERE'S NO COMMITMENT AT THAT POINT.
[00:10:01]
IF IT GOES TO A, A, UM, DRAINAGE PARTICIPATION PROJECT AS WE DID THIS YEAR, THERE IS ADDITIONAL TIME SPENDING PREPARING THE, UM, AGREEMENTS WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS, THEN A CONTRACT FOR DESIGN, CONTRACT FOR GEOTECH INVESTIGATION.THEN THE PLAN SUBMITTAL REVIEWS.
IT'S JUST LIKE A NORMAL STANDARD PROJECT AT THAT POINT.
AND IT, AND IT TAKES UP A LOT OF TIME OF, OF STAFF.
THE DOCUMENTED TIME THAT WE HAVE JUST IN THE LAST THREE YEARS, UM, IN 23 WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PARTICIPANTS AS WELL AS 24, IT COST US ABOUT A, ABOUT 168 HOURS.
SO IT'S, IT'S ROUGHLY A MONTH'S WORTH OF TIME OF ONE EMPLOYEE TO GO OUT AND, AND RUN THIS PROGRAM WITH, WITH BASICALLY NO PARTICIPANTS.
IN 24, WE HAD THE SAME, IT WAS A FEW HOURS LESS.
I THINK WE HAD A FEW MORE HANGUPS EARLIER IN THE, IN THE, I DON'T THINK WE HAD AS MANY CALLS, IF I REMEMBER, CORRECT.
WELL, WE HAD 12 IN 24, BUT I THINK A FEW OF THEM, THEY WERE VERY EXPENSIVE AND THEY HUNG UP IN 25.
NOW THAT WE HAVE TWO PARTICIPANTS, YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, THE JUMP IN HOURS SPENT BY STAFF TO 268 AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN REALLY, WE'VE JUST STARTED DESIGNING ONE PROJECT.
WE MIGHT HAVE HAD THE 30% PLANS ON THOSE, AND OF COURSE THE CHURCH JUST NOW SIGNED AND THAT WAS MA MOST OF OUR TIME SPENT ON THAT WAS JUST CON CONTRACTUALLY WITH THEM.
AND THEN WE'RE NOW WORKING ON THE ENGINEERING DESIGN CONTRACTS AS WELL AS GEOTECH.
SO THIS WILL BE EXPENDING MORE HOURS THIS FOLLOWING YEAR IN 26.
WE'LL BE DEFINITELY UP PROBABLY IN THE 300 HOUR RANGE, IF NOT MORE, ON, ON THESE.
BUT WITH THE LOW PARTICIPATION, 6% PARTICIPATION IN THE LAST FEW YEARS AND THE COST ISN'T GONNA COME DOWN.
IS THIS A PROGRAM THAT STAFF WAS REAL LOOKING AT? IT COSTS US A LOT OF STAFF TIME AND ENERGY FOR NOT MUCH RETURN ON THE BACK END.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THE PARTICIPATION, THE GREEN LINE IS A PARTICIPATION OVER THE YEARS.
AND IT'S SLOWLY, AS THE PRICES HAVE GONE UP, IT HAS SLOWLY COME DOWN AS FAR AS PARTICIPATION.
AND IS THIS, IS THIS A WELL, WE'RE ASKING THE TIM COMMITTEE IS, IS THIS A PROGRAM THAT NEEDS TO STAY OR WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING AT THIS TIME IS TO POSSIBLY DISCONTINUE THE PROGRAM? AND AT THIS POINT, I'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE.
YOU WANT THE GRAPH OR DO YOU WANT THE THE NEXT ONE? THE NEXT ONE.
[00:15:32]
WELL, IN, IN, AGAIN, WE'RE, WE'RE BIDDING THIS CONTRACT OUT.AND, AND I WILL SAY THAT IN 21, THE SAME CONTRACTOR THAT HAD IT IN 2010 TO 2020 IS THE SAME CONTRACTOR THAT HAD IT IN 21 TO 24 BASICALLY.
AND THEIR, THEIR COSTS JUMPED THAT MUCH.
NOW, IN 25, WE HAD A DIFFERENT CONTRACTOR WHO WAS A SUCCESSFUL BIDDER AND, AND UNDERBID THE PREVIOUS CONTRACTOR.
SO, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, THE, THE RATES ARE STILL SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER.
NOW WHAT DOES THAT ACCOUNTED TO? I, I KNOW THAT WE WENT THROUGH A HUGE INFLATION DURING, RIGHT AFTER COVID AND, AND DURING SOME OF THOSE YEARS, UH, A LOT OF OUR, WE, WE WERE HAVING TROUBLE ESTIMATING PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, FOR OUR CONSTRUCTION ON OUR CIP 'CAUSE EVERYTHING WAS JUST THROUGH THE ROOF AT THAT POINT.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF, IF THAT WAS JUST, I I WOULD DEFER PROBABLY MORE TO A FINANCIAL PERSON THAT, THAT COULD ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.
WE JUST KNOW HOW BIDS WERE COMING IN.
I REMEMBER HAS BASICALLY, AND, AND EVEN WITH EROSION CONTROL A I'LL SAY THIS, A CREEK WILL NEVER STOP ERODING.
I, I USE THE EXAMPLE ALL THE TIME.
THE GRAND CANYON IS STILL, UH, AFTER HOWEVER MANY YEARS IT'S BEEN IN EXISTENCE, YOU, YOU NAME IT, THOUSANDS, TENS OF HUNDRED THOUSANDS, WHO KNOWS? BUT IT'S STILL ERODING TO THIS DAY.
AND, AND, AND EVERYBODY ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT RED RIVER UP ON THE, UP ON THE BORDER WITH OKLAHOMA AND THE BORDER CHANGES ALL THE TIME 'CAUSE IT ERODES.
SO YES, THERE WOULD BE STILL A NEED FOR THE, FOR EROSION CONTROL.
IT'S HOW DO WE DELIVER THAT'S, YEAH.
SO WHY LOOKING AT DRAFT IS THAT QUEST, A ROAD QUEST RELEASE REQUEST BECAUSE I'M WORKING, BUT IF IT'S COSTING US THAT KIND OF NICE TO GO OUT AND WHICH IT'S GONNA COST THAT, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S KIND OF ALL, I DON'T KNOW.
[00:20:01]
WAYS.I MEAN, IF MY BACKYARD IS FIXING THEIR ROAD INTO THE 50,000 SOMEBODY ELSE TO PAY FOR HALF OF THAT AND I NEED TO PAY MINE HALF, I'M ALL FOR THAT.
BUT IF I CAN'T, CAN'T AFFORD THAT AT ALL, AND I SAY, DUDE, I'LL JUST LET MY BACK.
YEAH, I I MEAN I GET THAT, BUT I GET THAT.
AND AND THAT IS, THAT IS KEY IN, IN ALL THESE SITUATIONS.
IT IS SOMEBODY THAT OWNS TO THE CENTER OF THE CREEK.
UM, YES, THE CITY HAS AN EASEMENT THROUGH THERE TO, FOR WATER CONVEYANCE SO THAT IN EMERGENCY WE CAN GET IN THERE TO CLEAR SOMETHING IF TO, TO KEEP PROPERTIES FROM FLOODING.
THAT'S WHAT THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT IS FOR.
BUT THE EROSION IS THE RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE OWN THE PROPERTY.
JUST LIKE ANY OTHER HOMEOWNER THAT, THAT BUYS A, A HOME THAT HAS A LARGE RETAINING WALL IN FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE ALONG A STREET, THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT RETAINING WALL THERE WHEN THEY, BECAUSE THEY WAS THERE WHEN THEY BOUGHT THE HOUSE.
AND THEN ANSWERING YOUR CONCERN A FEW MINUTES AGO, YOU SAID, NOW IT JUST A BACKYARD.
ALL OF THESE STRUCTURES THAT WE GO OUT AND WE WORK WITH PEOPLE ON, THEY NOW HAVE TO MEET A REQUIREMENT THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE A STRUCTURE, A HOME OR SOME SORT OF SOLID FOUNDATION WITHIN A THREE TO ONE SLOPE OF THE TOW OF THE CREEK OR THE BOTTOM OF THE CREEK.
AND ALL OF THESE PROPERTIES THAT, THAT WE HAVE SHOWN THAT ARE REQUESTS, THEY HAVE QUALIFIED.
I DID, WE DID NOT INCLUDE THE ONES THAT WERE NOT QUAL THAT DID NOT QUALIFY IN THIS COUNT.
WE'VE HAD MORE THAT HAVE CALLED IN.
BUT AGAIN, THEY MAY, THEIR HOME MAY HAVE BEEN WAY FURTHER BACK, BUT JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE LOSING YOUR BACKYARD, IT HAS TO BE A STRUCTURE.
WE, WE REDEFINED THAT, I THINK IN 2021, WE REDEFINED THE PROGRAM THAT IT HAD TO BE A STRUCTURE BECAUSE WE SAW THAT THE PRICES, WE SAID, WELL, IT HAS TO BE A STRUCTURE CLOSE, CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE TILL OF THE CREEK.
SO I THINK YOU NEED TO TELL 'EM ABOUT THE CAPS, THE PROGRAM.
SO THERE IS A, A A DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT THIS PROGRAM IS KEPT OUT, THAT THERE'S A CALCULATION THAT'S USED FOR THAT.
AND I BELIEVE IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE ACTUAL IMPROVEMENTS, EXCUSE ME, FOR THE WALLS THEMSELVES, MOST TIMES EXCEED THE VALUE OF, OF THE PROPERTIES.
AND THAT'S THE OTHER CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, THE COST OF THE, OR THE ACTUAL VALUE OF THE HOMES THAT ARE ON THE CREEKS, UM, WE HAVE VERY STRUCTURED, UH, CALCULATIONS AS FAR AS HOW MUCH WE CAN PAY BECAUSE IT'S UP TO THE VALUE OF THE HOME.
BUT I'M GONNA LET YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE.
I I I, I LEFT THAT OUT EARLIER.
BUT IT IS THE, THE, THE VALUE WE, NOT ONLY THE THREE TO ONE, BUT THE VALUE OF THE PRO, THE PROJECT CANNOT EXCEED 50% OF THE TOTAL PROPERTY VALUE.
SO IF A HOUSE IS 500,000, YOU CAN ONLY SPEND UP TO 250,000.
AND THAT WOULD BE STILL SPLIT BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE, AND THE PROPERTY OWNER.
WE HAVE HAD A FEW OF THOSE THAT, THAT HAVE WAY EXCEEDED THE AMOUNT, UM, THAT DIDN'T QUALIFY AS WELL, SIMILAR TO THE THREE TO ONE.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTIES, THAT IS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN A LOT OF CASES ONCE WE ACTUALLY GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
I MEAN, WE'VE HAD INDIVIDUALS WHO WANTED TO PARTICIPATE, BUT THEY COULDN'T QUALIFY SIMPLY BECAUSE THIS EXCEEDED THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY ITSELF.
[00:25:01]
AT THE RESOURCES THAT WE'RE EXPENDING ON THIS PROGRAM IN GENERAL, IT'S THE LIFT CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT WE'RE SAYING, OKAY, THIS IS GOING TO BENEFIT ONE SINGLE SOLITARY PROPERTY OWNER ONE, ONE PROPERTY OWNER.WHICH IS WHY WE HAD THE SITUATION OF THE CHURCH QUALIFYING BECAUSE THE VALUE OF THAT PROPERTY FAR EXCEEDED THE 200 AND WHATEVER.
THAT, THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT FOR THE IMPROVEMENTS, IT, THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY ITSELF EXCEEDED THE COST OF THE IMPROVEMENTS.
BUT THAT'S NOT YOUR TYPICAL SITUATION WITH THE INFLATION.
UM, RELATIVE TO THE ACTUAL OVERALL COST OF THE PROGRAM, WE USED TO
THE COST SAVINGS IS FOR THE CITY ON ITS CITY'S SHARE IS 224,000.
IF THOSE TWO HADN'T HAVE GONE THROUGH, UM, IT PLUS THE LIFT ON, ON STAFF TIME, THAT'S REALLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
AND, AND THAT'S WHERE I GOT INTO IT, THAT THE, THE STAFF TIME WAS APPROXIMATELY 140.
I MEAN, BASICALLY IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A MONTH OF ONE PERSON A YEAR FOR ALL THE NUMBER OF REQUESTS THAT COME IN THAT DON'T PROCEED.
SO
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A MONTH OF SALARY OF OF, OF ONE OF OUR STAFF ENGINEERS, A STAFF ENGINEER.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE EXACTLY RIGHT.
UH, AS FAR AS ONE OF OUR STAFF ENGINEERS, YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOOKING, OH, I WOULD SAY IN THE BALLPARK OF THEIR, THEIR ANNUAL SALARY OF A, LET'S SAY A HUNDRED THOUSAND.
SO YOU'RE, SO A MONTH, A MONTH OF THAT.
SO IT'S A NUMBER TWO IS OVER AND ABOVE.
[00:30:27]
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO DO, UM, AN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, WE WOULD HAVE TO DO THAT.
IT WOULD ALL HAVE TO BE PRESENTED TO COUNCIL.
I GUESS, WE'LL, WE'LL MOVE INTO THE ALLEY PETITION.
UM, IN FEBRUARY OF LAST YEAR, I GAVE A COUNCIL BRIEFING.
IT WAS, IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES WE'VE HAD A SUCCESSFUL ALLEY PETITION IN A NUMBER OF YEARS.
AND, UM, IT JUST HITTING A FEW HIGHLIGHTS FROM, FROM THAT PRESENTATION.
THE PETITION REQUIRES, UM, 51% OR MORE OF THE ABUTTING PROPERTY OWNER'S SIGNATURES, OR 51% OR MORE OF THE OWNER'S SIGNATURES THAT ABUT 50 MORE, 51% OR MORE OF THE, OF THE, UH, FRONTAGE.
SO IF YOU HAD AN ALLEY THAT HAD, LET'S SAY A THOUSAND FEET EACH SIDE, HYPOTHETICALLY THAT WOULD BE 2000 FEET OF FRONTAGE, YOU WOULD NEED 1020 FEET WORTH OF PROPERTY OWNERS NAMES OF 1020 FEET TO QUALIFY.
SO CALCULATING, UM, YOU KNOW, AFTER THAT THERE'S, WE, WE CALCULATE OPCS, WE'RE PREPARE THE PETITION, WE SEND IT TO THE PROPERTY OWNER.
THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING IT DOOR TO DOOR TO ALL THEIR, THEIR CONSTITUENTS OUT THERE TO GET SIGNATURES ON IT.
IF IN SOME CASES, SOME OF THESE ALLEYS, THESE UNAPPROVED ALLEYS, LIKE YOU SEE ON THE RIGHT SIDE THERE IN THE PHOTO, UM, THEY HAVE SOME, UM, HOMES THAT ARE LEASED, LEASED PROPERTIES.
AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN THE PROPERTY OWNER WOULD HAVE TO MAIL THE PETITION TO WHOMEVER.
BUT WE COLLECT ALL THAT DATA FOR IT, FOR THE, FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, PUT IT ALL INTO A PETITION.
WE PUT IT INTO A DATABASE, IT CRANKS OUT OUR, OUR TEMPLATE ON OUR PETITION, AND WE SEND THAT INFORMATION TO 'EM.
BUT WITH THE, WITH THE DETAILED COST, WE HAVE IT FAIRLY ACCURATE OF HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA COST PER PROPERTY.
UM, SO THEN IF IT, IF IT RETURNS TO US, THEN WE HAVE A DETERMINATION AND NECESSITY, LIKE WE WENT THROUGH THIS LAST YEAR IN MARCH AND THEN A, AN ADVERTISING OF THREE WEEKS TO HOLD PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN LEVYING OF ASSESSMENTS.
UM, EACH PARTICIPATION AMOUNT IN BY ORDINANCE IS 33% ON EACH SIDE OF THE RESIDENTIAL.
AND THEN THE CITY'S 33% OR 33.33%.
SO, AND THEN THE OWNER'S ASSESSMENTS, I DO WANNA PUT THIS KEY IN THERE 'CAUSE THAT'S HAPPENED ON THIS, ON THE PROJECT THAT WE HAD JUST THIS LAST SPRING.
OWNER'S ASSESSMENTS MAY NOT EXCEED THE ENHANCED VALUE OF THE PROPERTY, MEANING THERE HAS TO BE APPRAISALS FOR EACH PROPERTY TO DETERMINE THE ENHANCED VALUE TO THAT PROPERTY OF HAVING A PAVED ALLEY.
SO THE LATEST ONE THAT WE HAD OVER OFF OF SCHOOL STREET, THERE WERE THREE PROPERTY OWNERS HERE.
THE, IT, IT'S, IT'S ONLY THREE PROPERTY OWNERS.
ONLY BECAUSE IF YOU REMEMBER, THE PROPERTIES TO THE WEST OF THE ALLEY ARE ALL COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES.
THERE'S A DAYCARE AND THERE'S A RESTAURANT THERE THAT FRONTS WALNUT STREET.
AND THEN THE ONE TO THE NORTH OF 4 0 9 SCHOOL STREET IS ALSO ANOTHER COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.
AND THEY CANNOT PARTICIPATE BECAUSE THEY DO, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED ACCESS TO ALLEYS BY OUR ORDINANCE.
SO THERE WERE ONLY THREE PROPERTIES IN THIS CASE.
AND THE ALL THREE PROPERTIES SIGNED OFF, UM, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE ORIGINAL AMOUNT WAS EIGHT TO 10,000 FOR EACH PROPERTY.
WHEN THEY SIGNED THE PETITION.
WHEN IT CAME BACK AFTER THE, AFTER THE ENHANCEMENT STUDY, IT WAS ROUGHLY JUST UNDER 8,000 PER PROPERTY.
IT WAS ABOUT 7,800 AND SOME ODD DOLLARS.
SO IT WAS A TOTAL OF $23,909 THAT THE CITY'S GONNA RECEIVE IN PARTICIPATION FUNDS FROM THE THREE PROPERTIES.
AFTER THIS ALLEY IS CONSTRUCTED RIGHT NOW, ATMOS, UM, GAS IS OUT THERE WORKING TO RELOCATE A A GAS MAIN THAT WAS GONNA BE TOO SHALLOW.
AND WE NEEDED TO HAVE THEM SET IT DEEPER SO THAT WHEN WE EXCAVATED FOR THE ALLEY, THAT IT WOULD NOT IN, UH,
[00:35:01]
HIT EITHER GAS MAIN.SO ONCE THEY DO THAT, WE'LL BE ABLE TO CONSTRUCT THIS ALLEY.
UM, BUT AS YOU SEE, THAT'S BASICALLY A 23% PARTICIPATION CITY STILL EXPENDING 76% OF THE FUNDS.
THIS TYPICALLY HAPPENS WITH THE ENHANCED, THE, THE LIMITING OF ENHANCED VALUE.
UH, IF YOU, IF YOU EXTRAPOLATED THAT ON THIS PARTICULAR ALLEY, I, I WORKED IT OUT AND JUST SAID, OKAY, WHAT HAPPENS IF BOTH SIDES PARTICIPATED? THE CITY WOULD BE EXPENDING ABOUT 48%.
AND THE, AND THE PROPERTIES WOULD STILL BE PAYING ONLY APPROXIMATELY 50 50, 50 2%, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.
SO IT STILL REALLY DOESN'T WORK OUT TO THE ONE THIRD, ONE THIRD, ONE THIRD IN MOST CASES BECAUSE OF THE, THE LIMITED BY ENHANCEMENT.
AND I DO WANT TO IN ALSO INCLUDE THAT THE ENHANCEMENT STUDIES, THERE'S NOT VERY MANY ATTOR OR, UM, WE WENT THROUGH OUR ATTORNEY'S DEPART, UH, OFFICE TO HELP US FIND SOMEBODY THAT WOULD DO AN ENHANCEMENT STUDY.
WE HAD THIS PROBLEM YEARS AND YEARS AGO THAT FEWER AND FEWER APPRAISAL COMPANIES WILL STICK THEIR NECK OUT TO SAY THAT IT ENHANCES A PROPERTY THIS MUCH.
SO THERE'S A FEW THAT STILL DO IT.
AND THAT BEING THE CASE, YOU PAY A PREMIUM.
WE, ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, WE EXPENDED $4,000 PER PROPERTY FOR AN APPRAISAL FOR EACH PROPERTY.
WELL, THE ENHANCED VALUE FOR THESE THREE HOMES THAT CAME BACK WERE, WERE AROUND, I THINK IT WAS SEVEN, 7,890 SOMETHING DOLLARS, JUST UNDER $8,000 PER PROPERTY.
AND THEN WE STILL EXPENDED THE, THE APPRAISAL AND THEN DESIGN COSTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
SO ALL IN ALL, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, CITI HAS ONLY HAD ONE OF THESE OUT OF THE LAST 95, AND THAT'S OVER A 20 YEAR PERIOD.
WE ACTUALLY HAVE RECEIVED, I BELIEVE ONE OR TWO REQUESTS EARLY THIS YEAR FOR THE SAME, I KNOW WE RECEIVED A, A REQUEST LAST WEEK FOR AN ALLEY.
UM, BUT AGAIN, ONCE YOU START TALKING TO 'EM, THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
A LOT OF PEOPLE HANG UP OR THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR GOING TO GET THE SIGNATURES.
UM, WE DO IN SOME CASES, OUT OF THOSE 95, WE DID, UM, I THINK WE SENT OUT 24 PETITIONS IN THE LAST 20 YEARS OUT OF THE 95 THAT, THAT CALLED IN THOSE PETITIONS TAKE SOME LIFTING TO DO TO GET ALL THE INFORMATION OFF OF D THE DALLAS CENTRAL APPRAISAL DISTRICT, MAKING SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OWNERSHIP, THE RIGHT NAMES, FIRST NAMES, LAST NAMES.
'CAUSE IT HAS TO BE CORRECT ON THE, ON THE PETITION FOR THEM TO SIGN.
AND SO ALONG WITH THAT IT'S, IT, IT'S KIND OF A HEAVY LIFT TO GET THIS DONE BY WITH STAFF TIME.
WE DID, WE, WE QUIT TRACKING THE STAFF TIME A FEW YEARS AGO ON THIS, ON THIS PROGRAM ONLY BECAUSE THE, THE MONEY THAT WE HAD FOR IT, WE HAD, WE HAD ZERO PARTICIPATION IN OVER 15 YEARS AND THE MONEY WAS PRESENTED TO THE STREET DEPARTMENT TO GO CONSTRUCT ALLEYS OR RECONSTRUCT, I DON'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS RECONSTRUCTION, RECONSTRUCT ALLEYS 'CAUSE IT WAS NOT BEING USED OR UTILIZED.
AND THEN WE FIGURED WE WOULD HANDLE THESE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS AS THEY CAME IN.
IT'S STILL ON THE, ON THE, THE BOOKS AS FAR AS AN ORDINANCE.
BUT, UM, THE ASSESSMENTS LIMITED TO THE ENHANCED VALUES IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT RESTRICTS, UH, THIS PROGRAM AND ULTIMATELY THE CITY'S OWNERSHIP OF THE ALLEYS AFTER THAT WE'RE, WE'RE RESPONSIBLE PERPETUAL FOR MAINTENANCE AT THAT POINT.
FROM THAT POINT FORWARD, WHETHER, WHETHER THERE'S A HEAVE IN THE SOIL CONDITIONS OR WHATEVER HAPPENS, THAT USUALLY DOESN'T HAPPEN TOO OFTEN, BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE REPLACED, REPAIRS, REPLACEMENT, THAT TYPE OF THING.
AND THEN IN, IN LIGHT OF THE 25 BOND PROGRAM, THAT WAS, THAT THE $210 MILLION WERE ALLOCATED IN THE 25 BOND PROGRAM THIS LAST YEAR FOR THE REPLACEMENT AND REPAIRS OF EXISTING ALLEYS AND STREETS THAT WE ARE HAVING A HARD TIME KEEPING UP WITH.
AND IS IT A, IS IT A GOOD PRACTICE TO ADD MORE ALLEYS TO THE MIX THAT WE'RE NOW RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING? AND SO THAT'S WHERE WE'RE COMING TO THE TIM COMMITTEE.
AGAIN, AGAIN, MUCH LIKE THE, THE DRAINAGE PARTICIPATION PROGRAM, THE ALLEY PARTICIPATION PROGRAM, DUE TO JUST LACK OF INTEREST IN PEOPLE PARTICIPATING, WE'RE REQUESTING OR, OR RECOMMENDING, I GUESS, TO DISCONTINUE THIS PROGRAM AS WELL.
IT'S TAKING A DIRT ALLEY WHERE PEOPLE HAVE PURCHASED PROPERTIES ALONG THAT AREA.
[00:40:01]
MAINTENANCE HEADACHE BECAUSE OF THE UTILITY TRUCKS.A LOT OF TIMES THERE'S UTILITIES BACK THERE AND UTILITY TRUCKS WILL RUN IT UP BECAUSE THEY, IT'S NEVER DURING GOOD WEATHER THAT A UTILITY TRUCK ACCESSES THESE ALLEYS.
IT'S ALWAYS DURING A STORM EVENT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT'S WET HEAVY TRUCKS RUD IT UP AND I KNOW THE STREET DEPARTMENT HAS REQUESTS ALL THE TIME TO GO BACK OUT ONCE IT DRIES OUT TO REGRADE THE ALLEYS AND THEY DO THAT.
UM, BUT IN, IN THIS CASE, JUST PUTTING AN ALLEY BACK THERE, SOME PEOPLE THINK, OH, I'LL GET MY TRASH PICKED UP BACK THERE NOW.
WELL IF, IF THE ROUTE ALREADY INCLUDES THEY'RE THE ONLY PAVED ALLEY IN A SUBDIVISION, THEIR TRASH WILL STILL BE PICKED UP IN THE FRONT.
SO THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT ANYTHING WOULD CHANGE REGARDING THAT.
IT JUST GIVES THEM ACCESS TO THEIR BACKYARDS.
SINCE ONLY ON ONE SIDE, IT, IT, IT, THEY, THEY WERE LIMITED BY THE ENHANCEMENT AND THE CITY PICKS UP THE REST OF THE TAB.
NOW I WILL SAY THAT, UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IT, IT WAS DONE YEARS AND YEARS AGO.
THE, THE RESTAURANT ON THE WEST SIDE UP ALONG WALNUT STREET, THEY ACTUALLY PAVED A PORTION OF THAT NORTH PART OF THAT ALLEY.
UM, AND THEY USE IT AS ACCESS FROM THEIR DRIVE THROUGH, BUT THEY PAVED IT, THEY PUT IT ACTUALLY IN PLACE.
AND I DON'T, I, I REALLY DON'T KNOW THE REASONING HOW WHEN ALL THAT TOOK PLACE.
IT WAS, IT WAS A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO.
BUT UM, UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REPLACE A PORTION OF THAT TO CREATE THE GRADE THAT WE NEED THROUGH THE REST OF THE THREE PROPERTIES.
SO WE ARE GONNA REPLACE THAT PORTION AND REPAVE IT.
AND THAT'S PART OF THE COST THAT YOU SEE IN THAT 102,000.
AGAIN, IT'S ONLY ROUGHLY FOUR PROPERTIES LENGTH 300.
NO, IT'S, I, THERE THERE IS A HEAVY LIFT, LIKE I SAID, WHEN YOU DO GET TO THE 24 THAT WE DID HAVE, SO BASICALLY 25% OF THEM WE EXPENDED AND PUT A, AN ACTUAL PETITION TOGETHER FOR 'EM.
AGAIN, PULLING THE DATA FROM D DALLAS COUNTY RECORDS AND ACTUALLY GOING THROUGH A VERY DETAILED OPINION OF PROBABLE COSTS, INCLUDING ENGINEERING AND GEOTECH AND ALL THIS OTHER STUFF AND PUTTING THAT IN THERE TO GET A GOOD COST ESTIMATE SO THAT THEY CAN TAKE THE PETITION TO THEIR, TO THEIR, UM, NEIGHBORS.
AND THE ONLY ONE WE'VE RECEIVED BACK WAS THIS ONE AND IT WAS JUST THREE NEIGHBORS.
MOST OF THE TIME IT'S ON AN AVERAGE OF PROBABLY 1224 TO 30 NEIGHBORS THAT TYPICALLY HAVE TO SIGN OFF ON ONE OF THESE.
SOMETIMES IT'S EVEN MORE, SOME, WE HAVE SOME RATHER LONG UNIMPROVED ALLEYS IN THE CITY.
THIS ONLY APPLY TO UN NO, NO, THIS IS ONLY UN UNIMPROVED ALLEYS, UNIMPROVED ALLEYS, UNIMPROVED ALLEYS.
AND, AND WE DO VERIFY THAT THESE, THESE OLD PLATS WHERE ALL THESE SUBDIVISIONS HAVE, HAVE, HAVE THESE DIRT AREAS BEHIND THE HOMES.
WE, WE VERIFIED THAT THE LENGTH IS, UH, THE WIDTH IS TRULY AN ALLEY AND, AND IT'S BEEN PLATTED AS AN ALLEY AND NOT JUST A UTILITY EASEMENT.
THERE ARE SOME, IF YOU GO BACK, IT'S A 12 FOOT UTILITY EASEMENT THAT'S BEEN PLATTED.
WELL, WE CAN'T BUILD AN ALLEY 12 FEET WIDE.
UM, AND THOSE WILL NOT QUALIFY.
UM, THESE ARE ONLY JUST FOR WHAT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN PLATTED AS AN ALLEY BY, BY PLAT OF THE SUBDIVISION.
THERE'S STILL QUITE A FEW UNIMPROVED ALLEYS.
YES, IT'S A LOT OF IT IS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA IN NORTH OF HERE.
AND, AND, UM, MOSTLY IN THE, IN THE SECTIONS THAT WERE, WERE BUILT POST WORLD WAR II, A LOT OF THE SUBDIVISIONS OF SOUTH OF HERE.
BUT, UH, IT'S BEEN MORE COMMON PRACTICE WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU GET TO THE 1970S, EIGHTIES, THAT'S WHEN MOST OF THEM STARTED PUTTING THE CONCRETE ALLEYS IN AND PAVED ALLEYS, IF YOU WILL,
[00:45:06]
SITUATION.