* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. IT IS 5:03 PM [00:00:02] AND WE ARE HERE FOR THE FEBRUARY 3RD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE. I AM MAYOR PRO TIM MARGARET LUT, AND I'M JOINED BY COUNCILMAN JEFF BASS AND COUNCILMAN JOE THOMAS WITH VARIOUS STAFF AS WELL. UM, FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES. DO I MOTION? I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. THAT'S UNANIMOUS. ITEM TWO, PUBLIC COMMENTS. DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THIS ITEM? NO MA'AM. WE DO NOT. SO WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER THREE, ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION PROCESS, DETERMINING VAPE SHOPS VERSUS SMOKE SHOPS. GOOD EVENING OR AFTERNOON, CHAIRWOMAN LUCK AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS. UM, I'M HERE TODAY ON A ITEM THAT IS, THAT CHAIRMAN LUCK, CHAIRWOMAN LUCK HAS WANTED TO DISCUSS FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW. SO QUITE SOME TIME. WE ARE HERE , AND I THINK YOU WILL BE, UM, EXCITED ABOUT THE PROGRESS THAT, UM, STAFF HAS MADE ON THIS ITEM AND ARE SOME OF OUR SOLUTIONS TO THE ISSUES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO RESOLVE WHEN IT COMES TO THE ENFORCEMENT AND PROSECUTION OF OUR, UM, SMOKE SHOPS AND VAPE SHOPS. UM, THE MAIN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED IS EXACTLY THAT. HOW DO WE MAKE ENFORCEMENT EASIER ON, UM, CODE AND HOW DO WE MAKE PROSECUTION EASIER ON, UM, THE PROSECUTORS? UM, IT'S A DIFFICULT PROBLEM, UM, THE WAY IT'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN BECAUSE IT REQUIRES QUITE A BIT OF LABOR, INTENSE LABOR TO NOT ONLY GET ENOUGH INFORMATION TO FILL OUT A PROPER COMPLAINT IN THE MUNICIPAL COURT, BUT UM, JUST TO EVEN GO AND GET A SEARCH WARRANT, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE NECESSARY IN MOST CASES BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE STATUTE'S CURRENT CURRENTLY WRITTEN AND THE DEFINITIONS ARE CURRENTLY DEFINED. SO HOW ARE WE GONNA RESOLVE THESE TWO ISSUES, THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE PROSECUTION? ONE, WE'RE GONNA AMEND SOME DEFINITIONS. WE'RE GONNA AMEND ONE DEFINITION OF SMOKE SHOP AND THEN WE'RE GONNA ADD A DEFINITION OF TOBACCO, TOBACCO AND CIGAR SHOP. UM, AND THEN WE'LL ALSO CREATE A PRESUMPTION THAT'S TIED TO A PERCENTAGE OF INVENTORY AS OPPOSED TO TIED TO REVENUE, A PERCENTAGE OF REVENUE. THE REVENUE'S A DIFFICULT PROBLEM TO SOLVE BECAUSE THAT REQUIRES US DIGGING INTO BOOKS AND, AND DOING ALL THAT. AND THAT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE TYPE OF ISSUES. AND I THINK BEFORE WE GET TO THE SLIDES, AND I SHOW YOU ALL THE SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES TO THE CODE, UM, I WANNA REMIND EVERYONE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ZONING CHANGES HERE. MM-HMM . AND THAT'S AN IMPORTANT, UM, DISTINCTION FROM JUST CHANGING SOMETHING, THE CODE OF ORDINANCES BECAUSE WITH ZONING CHANGES IT MEANS THAT THE, THE VAPE SHOPS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN EXISTENCE, THEY ARE GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN, UM, AS UM, UM, LAWFUL, UM, NONCONFORMING USES. UM, THIS, UH, THIS WILL BE GOING FORWARD AS NEW PEOPLE, AS NEW, UM, UM, BUSINESS OWNERS COME INTO THE CITY AND WANNA OPEN TOBACCO SHOPS OR VAPE SHOPS. UM, THIS WILL BE WHAT WE WILL USE TO ISSUE PERMITS AND ALSO REGULATE THEM. BUT AGAIN, ONES THAT ARE CURRENTLY EXISTING, UM, UM, THOSE WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO STAY UNTIL THEY EITHER CLOSE AND ABANDON THEIR USE OR TRY TO EXPAND IT OR EXPAND THEIR USE. QUESTION ON THAT. YES. OKAY. SO IF A ON THE LEGAL NON-CONFORMING USES, IF THEY SELL THE BUSINESS TO SOMEBODY ELSE, THEN IT STILL STAYS LEGAL NON-CONFORMING, RIGHT? IT HAS TO BE ABANDONED FOR 180 DAYS. THAT'S CORRECT. IN ORDER FOR THAT TO GO AWAY? THAT'S CORRECT. OR THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO MODIFY THE BUSINESS AND THEN IT GOES AWAY. RIGHT. OKAY. JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT FOR CLARITY WHEN THAT, WHEN YOU SAY MODIFY, I THINK YOU MEAN, UM, EXPAND IT. EXPAND IT, YEAH. RIGHT. AND THAT COULD BE, UM, EXPANSION BECAUSE OF A, UM, ACCIDENT WHERE SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THE BUILDING AND THEY HAVE TO SHUT IT DOWN AND THEY HAD REBUILD AND THEY EXPAND THAT THEY SHUT IT DOWN FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME, SIX MONTHS PERIOD OF TIME, THEN THAT USE WILL NO LONGER BE, UM, A LAWFUL USE. UM, BUT IF THEY TRY TO EXPAND INTO LIKE THE NEXT SUITE OVER IN A SHOPPING CENTER, THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT. RIGHT. 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT CONFORM. SO LET'S SAY TORNADO HITS, THEY HAVE TO REBUILD, BUT THEY REBUILD IN THE SAME SQUARE FOOT, SAME PAD, SAME SQUARE FOOTAGE, AND THEY TAKE LESS THAN SIX MONTHS, THEN IT STILL YES, BECAUSE IT'S NOT LEGAL NON THAT'S RIGHT. BECAUSE THE NON-CONFORMING USE IN THAT INSTANCE ISN'T THE BUILDING ITSELF, IT'S WHAT'S BEING USED IN THE BUILDING. IT'S THE ACTUAL BUSINESS IN THE BUILDING. SO THERE ARE SOME CASES WHERE YOU'LL SEE A NON-CONFORMING USE GET DESTROYED BY A NATURAL DISASTER OF SOME SORT, AN ACT OF GOD. AND, UM, THE BUILDING ITSELF WAS NON-CONFORMING. AND SO IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE, THEN THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO REBUILD THE BUILDING IN THE SAME WAY IT WAS BUILT BEFORE BECAUSE IT WAS A NON-CONFORMING BUILDING. 'CAUSE IT'S THE BUILDING, THIS IS THE USE. THAT'S RIGHT. COOL. AWESOME. THANK YOU. UM, SO THE ISSUE THAT WE SEE IN THE GDC, UM, IN THE LAND USE MATRIX, IT DOES NOT REFERENCE A LAND USE CATEGORY TITLED TOBACCO SHOPS. AND I ADDED TO THAT TOBACCO SHOP, ALSO [00:05:01] CIGAR BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT, UM, IN THE LAST FIVE, 10 YEARS, UM, CIGAR SHOPS HAVE BECOME MUCH MORE PREVALENT IN THE METROPLEX AND THEY'RE, UM, CONSTANTLY NEW CIGAR SHOPS POPPING UP. SO I ADDED A DEFINITION FOR TOBACCO SHOP AND CIGAR SHOP. UM, THE GDC DOES REGULATE SMOKE SHOPS. THEY'RE PERMITTED INTO INDUSTRIAL LAND USE AREAS. AND BASICALLY HOW WE DO TOBACCO SHOPS, TRUE TOBACCO SHOPS, IT'S LIKE CONVENIENCE AND RETAIL STORES. IT'S IF THEIR PRODUCT INVENTORY IS MAINTAINED AT A LEVEL OF 75% AND ABOVE. I SLIGHTLY AMENDED THAT WHILE WE'RE TINKERING WITH THE STATUTE, I SLIGHTLY AMENDED THAT TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS CLEAR THAT THE PRODUCT THAT IS PUBLIC PUBLICLY DISPLAYED IS THAT 75%. I'M TRYING TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS GOING INTO A, A STORE AND ALL THEIR INVENTORY'S IN THE BACK AND WE WOULD NEED A SEARCH WARRANT TO GET INTO THE BACK 'CAUSE IT'S NOT A PUBLIC PLACE. THE GDC WILL NOW INCLUDE, UM, WITH THIS UPDATE A DEFINITION OF SMOKE SHOP THAT WILL INCLUDE VAPE SHOPS AS A COMPONENT OF THE SAME. AND I'LL WALK YOU THROUGH THAT DEFINITION. AND, UM, THE DIRECTOR OF CODE COMPLIANCE WILL END UP ESTABLISHING AN ENFORCEMENT IMPLE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN THAT WILL CONDUCT INVENTORY SWIPES OF CERTAIN LOCATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS TOBACCO SHOPS THAT ARE REALLY OPERATING IN SMOKE SHOPS. BECAUSE THERE IS A POSSIBILITY, ESPECIALLY DEPENDING ON WHAT THE MANAGERS OR THE OWNERS OF THE SHOP SAY TO THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, THEY COULD ACTUALLY ADMIT TO, UM, THE ELEMENTS OF THE OFFENSE OF NOT OPERATING A LAWFUL, UM, UM, TOBACCO SHOP. UM, AND IF THEY CAN DO THAT, THEN IT CAN SAVE US A LOT OF TIMES. BUT THERE MIGHT BE, IN MOST CASES, I SUSPECT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO DO A LOT WITH THESE THAT ARE CURRENTLY OPERATING LIKE THAT. THEY'LL GIVE IT THEIR BEST SHOT. SO IN THE LAND USE MATRIX, SMOKE SHOPS ARE GONNA BE PERMITTED AND INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICTS WITH AN SUP. SO THIS GIVES COUNCIL AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK INTO WHETHER OR NOT THIS PARTICULAR USE IN A PARTICULAR LOCATION IN INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THAT LOCATION CONSIDERING, UM, UM, UM, THIS, THE DISTINCTIVE NATURE OF THAT DISTRICT CURRENTLY, WELL ACTUALLY THIS IS THE UPDATED VERSION OF THE 2.52 A 38 SMOKE SHOPS. AND, UM, THIS IS NOT THE DEFINITION, THIS IS JUST A SLIGHT CHANGE IN HOW WE'RE GOING TO, UM, UM, UM, REQUIRE, UM, SMOKE SHOPS TO OPERATE IN CERTAIN WAYS. AND THE KEY HERE IS THE REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION IN THIS. SO IF YOU SEE IN SENTENCE TWO THERE, THERE SHOULD BE A REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION THAT A TOBACCO SLASH CIGAR SHOP IS OPERATING AS A SMOKE SHOP WHERE ONE TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER PACKAGES CIGARETTE CIGARS, PIPE TOBACCO, UH, OR TWO TOBACCO MAKE UP LESS THAN 75% OF PUBLICLY DISPLAYED INVENTORY I ADDED THE PUBLICLY DISPLAYED. AND THEN THERE'S A SECOND COMPONENT HERE, OR THE ESTABLISHMENTS MARKETING OR ADVERTISING ENCOURAGES OR PROMOTES THE USE OF CANNABIS ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES, HIP DERIVED PRODUCTS OR CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, INCLUDING ITEMS LABELED AS NOVELTY OR NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. SO THERE'S TWO WAYS THAT SOMEBODY THAT'S CLAIMING THEY'RE OPERATING A TOBACCO SHOP CAN ACTUALLY FALL INTO BEING A A SMOKE SHOP. AND THAT IS OBVIOUSLY THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PUBLICLY DISPLAYED INVENTORIES. THEY DON'T MEET THE 75% CRITERIA OR TWO, WHICH IS A LITTLE STRICTER, IS IF THEY'RE PUTTING UP ADVERTISING, IF THEY'RE PUTTING UP MARKETING IN THEIR LOCATION, OR IF IN ANY WAY IN THERE THAT'S PROMOTING THE SALE OF ANY OF THIS OR THE USE OF ANY OF, OF THIS, THEN THAT WILL DROP 'EM OUT OF THE, UM, UM, TOBACCO SHOP AND INTO THE SMOKE SHOP DEFINITION. SO THAT'LL DISCOURAGE THOSE ADVERTISEMENTS IN A WAY THAT I THINK IS TIED TO THE LAND USE, UM, AND NOT TIED TO, UM, THAT WON'T, THAT WON'T OTHERWISE AFFECT THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. UM, AND THEN 6.03 DEFINITION. THIS IS THE CURRENT DEFINITION, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, I'M GONNA SHOW YOU HERE IN A SECOND THE NEW DEFINITION. UM, AND YOU CAN SEE THIS ONE SAYS THE DEFINITION DOES NOT INCLUDE AND CATEGORICALLY EXCLUDES COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT THAT DERIVE MORE THAN 75% OF THEIR REVENUE FROM THE SELL OF THE FOLLOWING TOBACCO PRODUCTS. AND IT'S THAT REVENUE PORTION THAT'S DIFFICULT. HOW ARE WE, HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DETERMINE WHERE THEY'RE GETTING THEIR REVENUE FROM? SO WE'VE MADE THAT A LITTLE EASIER TO ENFORCE BY CHANGING IT. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE SMOKE SHOP NEW DEFINITION, THIS IS THE UPDATED ONE. IT'S A COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT TO WHICH THE PUBLIC IS ADMITTED OR INVITED, WHOSE PRIMARY BUSINESS PER PURPOSE IS. AND WE'RE GONNA GET INTO WHAT A PRIMARY BUSINESS PURPOSE IS. WE'RE GONNA ACTUALLY HELP DEFINE THAT A LITTLE BIT. SO THERE'S NOT AN ARGUMENT ABOUT THAT. IS THE CELL DISTRIBUTION OR [00:10:01] EXCHANGE FOR ANY FORM OF CONSIDERATION OF ITEMS, INSTRUMENTS, OR DEVICES THAT ARE INTENDED, DESIGNED OR MARKETED FOR USE IN THE SMOKING, INHALING VAPORIZING OR CONSUMPTION, CONSUMPTION OF ANY SUBSTANCE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT SUBSTANCE IS ITSELF IS SOLD ON THE PREMISES. THAT'S THE PRIMARY DEFINITION. WE'RE GONNA TIGHTEN IT UP A LITTLE BIT HERE. A COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT'S PRIMARY BUSINESS PURPOSE IS THE CELL OF SUCH ITEMS, INSTRUMENTS OR DEVICES WHERE ONE, THE DISPLAY OR SELL OF SUCH ITEMS, INSTRUMENTS OR DEVICES PREDOMINATES OVER THE CELL OR DISPLAY OF CONSUMABLE TOBACCO PRODUCTS. AND SO IF YOU HAVE, IF A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WALKS INTO ONE OF THESE SHOPS AND IT'S CLEAR BY WHAT, LOOKING AT THE PUBLICLY DISPLAYED INVENTORY THAT THOSE DEVICES IT THEMSELVES DOMINATE OVER, THERE'S MORE OF THOSE THAN THERE ARE ACTUAL TOBACCO PRODUCTS, THEN THAT'S GONNA BE A SMOKE SHOP. AND TWO, THE ESTABLISHMENTS, UM, UH, MARKETING OR ADVERTISING ENCOURAGES OR PROMOTES THE USE OF CANNABIS ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES, HEMP DERIVED PRODUCTS OR CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, INCLUDING LABELED AS NOVELTY OR NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. SO AGAIN, YOU HAVE TWO WAYS OF, UH, BECOMING A SMOKE SHOP, WHETHER YOU INTEND TO OR NOT. THESE ARE THE TWO WAYS THE CIGAR SHOP'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT. TOBACCO CIGAR SHOP. IT'S, UM, A TOBACCO CIGAR SHOP IS A COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT TO WHICH THE PUBLIC IS ADMITTED OR INVITED IN WHICH MORE THAN 75% OF THE STORES PUBLICLY DISPLAYED INVENTORY CONSIST OF THE FOLLOWING TOBACCO PRODUCTS IN THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURING PACKAGING. AND YOU'LL SEE IT'S THE TOBACCO PRODUCTS WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. AND THIS DEFINITION DOES NOT INCLUDE, IN FACT, IT CATEGORICALLY EXCLUDES ANY ESTABLISHMENT THAT MARKETS PROMOTES OR ADVERTISES, WHETHER ON OR OFF PREMISE, THE USE OF CANNABIS, ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES, HEMP DERIVED PRODUCTS, OR CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES. SO AGAIN, A LITTLE BELTS AND SUSPENDERS TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE A TOBACCO SHOP OR A CIGAR SHOP IN GARLAND AND YOU CAN'T ADVERTISE THOSE PRODUCTS OR EL EL OR ELSE WE'RE GONNA TREAT YOU FOR LAND USE PURPOSES. WE'RE GONNA TREAT YOU AS A SMOKE SHOP QUESTION. YES. SHOULD THAT NOT ALSO INCLUDE THE ITEMS LABELED AS NOVELTY OR NOT FUEL CONSUMPTION? UM, IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE. IT CAN, YEAH, I CAN ADD THAT IN THERE. IT'S, UM, SINCE IT'S, UH, SINCE WE'VE ALREADY DEFINED IT WITH SMOKE SHOP, BUT YEAH, I CAN CERTAINLY ADD THAT IN THERE. YEP. UH, THERE'S ONE THING I WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR BECAUSE LAST TIME, UM, WHEN MR. RAYMOND WAS AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS , SIR , UM, HE WAS LIKE, WELL, IT'S RETAIL, SO IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN A HAT OR A PAIR OF SHOES TO US. BUT THE THING IS, ALL OF THESE PRODUCTS HAVE AN AGE LIMIT ATTACHED TO THEM. SO THEY ARE DIFFERENT FROM JUST A, A REGULAR RETAIL ITEM. AND THAT'S THE BIG DIFFERENCE FOR ME. UM, I I DON'T, I THINK IT'S 21 NOW, ISN'T IT? UM, AND, AND THAT'S THE SAME AS IT IS FOR ALCOHOL. SO YOU WOULDN'T TREAT ALCOHOL THE SAME WAY YOU WOULD, UM, A HAT. AND, UH, AND I THINK THAT TOBACCO SHOULD BE TREATED. THAT'S A GREAT RATIONAL BASIS FOR DRAWING A DISTINCTION HERE. MM-HMM . UM, AND THERE'S SEVERAL OTHER RATIONAL BASIS WE CAN COME UP WITH. I CAN COME UP WITH TO TELL YOU WHY WE'RE OKAY DOING THIS. SO , AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A RATIONAL BASIS FOR DRAWING THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN A RETAIL OR STANDARD RETAIL DEFINITION VERSUS A TOBACCO CIGAR SHOP OR A SMOKE SHOP MM-HMM . THEN WE'RE FINE AS THE GOVERNMENT IN AND, UM, ENFORCING THESE PARTICULAR DEFINITIONS. ONE THING I DIDN'T SEE, UM, CONSUMPTION, UM, I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING ABOUT ON PREMISE USAGE. SO IF SOMEONE HAD A CIGAR SHOP AND THEY WANTED TO HAVE A COUPLE LEATHER CHAIRS IN THERE FOR PEOPLE TO SMOKE A CIGAR, UM, THERE'S NOTHING. OKAY, GOOD. YEAH, NOTHING BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF REALLY NICE CIGAR SHOPS. I, IN FACT, I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER SEEN A, A REALLY LIKE SKEEZY ONE. . I'VE ALWAYS BEEN REALLY NICE, I'LL SAY SOME EASY ONES, BUT , I DON'T WANNA GO TO FANCY ONES. MAYBE IN A CASINO, BUT NOT . I, I DO WANT TO WANT EVERYONE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS DOES NOT PROHIBIT SPEAKING OF CONVENIENCE STORES OR OTHER RETAIL STORES, IT DOES NOT PROHIBIT THEM FROM SELLING VAPE, UM, VAPE PENS OR OTHER DEVICES LIKE THAT. IT'S JUST THAT IF THEY'RE GOING TO SELL THEM, THEY HAVE TO HAVE MORE OF THE TOBACCO, UM, AS PRODUCT THAN THEY DO THOSE. RIGHT. THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE ISSUE. RIGHT. OKAY. SO A RETAIL STORE IS STILL GONNA BE ABLE TO SELL THESE ITEMS, IT JUST CAN'T BE THEIR PRIMARY RIGHT. UM, UH, BUSINESS PURPOSE. YEAH. CAN THE OTHER BUSINESS PURPOSE BE ALCOHOL? WELL, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT UM, THAT'S PRO, WELL I GUESS WE DO HAVE IT HERE IN MIND. SURE. IT COULD. SO THEY COULD, WELL IT'S NOT THE PRIMARY, IT COULD BE A SECONDARY. SO IT'S LIKE A, [00:15:01] A GRAB AND GO STORE WITH 25% VAPE IN IT. OKAY. GOOD QUESTION. UM, 75%. SO CAN WE DEFINE THAT? IS THAT VALUE UNITS? WHAT IS ? IT'S, WHAT'S THE PRODUCT ON DISPLAY NOT VALUE. SO IT WOULDN'T BE, IT'S JUST, SO 75% OF THE INVENTORY IS, UM, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND NOT THE DEVICES USED TO CONSUME THE DEVICE, UH, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, THEN IT'S GONNA BE A TOBACCO SHOP. OKAY. AND SO THAT'S BASED ON UNITS NOT VALUE. RIGHT. OKAY. AND SO ON THE FIRST PARAGRAPH THERE UNDER, UH, 6.03, NUMBER TWO, UM, I'M THINKING BACK TO, WE HAD A, UH, CASE COME BEFORE US AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING, DAVID CIGARS, YOU MIGHT REMEMBER. THEN THE GUY WAS KIND OF DANCING AROUND WHAT HE DID AND I HADN'T GONE BY THERE AND THAT ONE, SO I DID ON THE WAY HOME THAT NIGHT, DROVE PAST THAT STORE. WELL, HERE'S A BIG SIGN FOR CRETON AND HERE'S A BIG SIGN FOR CBD WITH A BIG MARIJUANA LEAF ON IT RIGHT OUT FRONT. THERE WERE NO ADS FOR TOBACCO OR CIGARS OR ANYTHING AT ALL IN THE FRONT WINDOW. AND THERE WAS ALSO SOME STUFF ABOUT VAPES AND SO THAT THEY CAN TELL FROM THE STREET WITHOUT EVEN GOING INTO THE PLACE THAT THIS GUY IS NOT CONFORMING TO THE LAW. OH, USE NUMBER TWO RIGHT HERE. AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE POINT IS THAT MAKING IT, MAKING IT EASIER FOR CODE TO IDENTIFY RIGHT THERE. I MEAN, 75% OF REVENUE IS, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT SOMETHING YOU, YOU WANT YOUR AVERAGE CODE GUY GETTING INTO, BUT HE CAN GO IN AND EYEBALL THE INVENTORY AND SAY, YEAH, THERE'S FOUR WALLS HERE, THREE OF THOSE HAVE GOT, UH, UH, TOBACCO. AND IT IS SOMETHING YOU CAN EASILY KIND OF JUDGE JUST FROM BA BASIC COMMON SENSE IS THAT THAT'S THE POINT OF THE, OF NUMBER ONE IN THAT ORDINANCE. IS THAT, AM I UNDERSTANDING ALL THAT CORRECTLY? YES, SIR. YEAH. SO I MEAN, DAVID CIGARS WOULD INSTANTLY BECOME, I MEAN, CLEARLY HE WOULD BE A NON-CONFORMING USE, SO HE'LL BE ABLE TO CONTINUE IN THE WAY IT'S OPERATING ITS BUSINESS. BUT WE WILL SEND, THIS IS ALSO A DIFFICULT, THE DIFFICULT PART OF DOING THIS IS WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO, IT'S, IT'S GONNA BE DIFFICULT FOR PLANNING TO LOCATE ALL OF THE, UM, SMOKE SHOPS IN THE CITY. I'M SURE THEY CAN DO IT. THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO IT, BUT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOCATE EACH ONE OF THEM AND SEND THEM NOTICE THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE COMING, UM, UM, UM, LEGAL NON-CONFORMING USES, SORRY, EXCEPT THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE INDUSTRIAL AREAS. RIGHT. WELL, EVEN THEN THEY'LL HAVE TO HAVE AN SUP, SO THEY'LL STILL BECOME A LEGAL NON-PERFORMING USE. OKAY. I THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO GO VERY FAR IN CLEANING UP A LOT OF OUR SHOPPING CENTERS. UM, I, MANY OF THOSE SHOPS HAVE JUST BECOME, I MEAN, NOBODY WANTS TO PUT THEIR THEIR BUSINESS NEXT TO 'EM. WHY WOULD THEY? AND, AND IF OUR FOCUS IS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO GIVE STAFF THE TOOLS TO HELP CLEAN THESE PLACES UP. TOTALLY AGREE. I MM-HMM . KNOW THE POOR GUY IN THE CHURCH THAT WAS CLOSE TO THESE RIGHT GUYS, YOU KNOW, I REALLY FELT FOR HIM. AND THEN WHEN I DROVE BY AND SAW HOW CLOSE THEY REALLY ARE, YOU KNOW, 70 FEET, YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, WELL HOW FAR IS THAT REALLY? BUT THEN YOU REALIZE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT VERY FAR DOWN THE WALK FROM WHERE THOSE GUYS WERE WHO WANT TO BE NEXT TO THAT MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, SO YEAH. DAVID CIGARS WAS THE CIGAR SHOP IN NAME ONLY, NOT IN PRACTICE. MM-HMM . WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU READ THE GOOGLE REVIEWS, BUT, UM, THEY WERE QUITE FUNNY. . YEAH. AND, AND, AND THAT'S THE CASE WITH MANY, UH, THERE'S, THERE'S SEVERAL ON NORTHWEST HIGHWAY AT SATURN RIGHT. BY A, UM, YOU KNOW, ON THE BORDER AND, AND SOME REALLY NICE BUSINESSES AND THE WHOLE OUTSIDE HAS BONGS ALL OVER IT AND BIG MARIJUANA LEAVES AND IT'S LIKE, WELL NOBODY THAT, THAT DOESN'T MAKE PEOPLE FEEL SAFE. AND WE HAD A CASE LIKE THAT LAST SUMMER IN AT THE HYPERMARKET SITE WHERE A GUY WAS WANTING TO MM-HMM . EXTEND HIS MM-HMM . HIS SUP AND YOU KNOW, AND IT WAS NOVELTY ITEMS AND THEN YOU GO TO GOOGLE MAPS AND ZOOM IN AND IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, BONGS AND, YOU KNOW, PIPES AND ALL, ALL CRETO AND ALL THAT STUFF WAS THE FIRST FEW WORDS IN THE DESCRIPTION. IT WAS LIKE, IT'S LIKE THE INGREDIENTS ON SOMETHING, THE STUFF YOU GOT THE MOST OF WAS LISTED FIRST. WELL, IT WAS CALLED HOOKAH YOU UP. YEAH. . SO YEAH. YOU SAID WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE DEFINITION OF PRIMARY BUSINESS AS WELL. YEAH. IT'S IN THE, IT'S ACTUALLY IN THE DEFINITION OF [00:20:01] SHOP, YOU'LL SEE A COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHED PRIMARY BUSINESS PURPOSE. AND SO IT'S, UM, IS THE SALE OF SUCH ITEMS REFERENCING THE, UM, ITEMS THAT ARE DESIGNED AND MARKETED FOR USE IN THE SMOKING HELD AND VAPORIZING OR DEVICES WHERE ONE, THE DISPLAY OR CELL OF SUCH ITEM INSTRUMENTS REVISE, DOMINATES OVER THE SELLER DISPLAY OF CONSUMABLE TOBACCO PRODUCTS. SO THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS TO BE A, UH, PRIMARY BUSINESS PURPOSE. IF IT, IF THOSE ITEMS PREDOMINATE OVER THE ACTUAL TOBACCO ITEMS YOU'RE SELLING, THEN YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE A TOBACCO SHOP. YOU'RE GONNA FALL IN THIS . SO HOW DOES THIS AFFECT A BUSINESS? LIKE BE HIPPIE? UH, THEY'LL BE A, A LEGAL NONCONFORMING. YEAH. AND I, AND I THINK THEY'RE ONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS ACTUALLY. THEY KEEP A VERY NICE AREA. THEY EVEN HAVE COMMUNITY GATHERINGS AND, AND BANDS AND STUFF. I DON'T, I DON'T SEE THEM AS THE REAL LIKE PROBLEM IN THIS , YOU'VE GOTTEN IN TROUBLE BEFORE. I KNOW THEY HAVE, BUT THAT'S THE, YOU KNOW, UM, THERE ARE FAR WORSE, UM, PLACES THAT, THAT DON'T HAVE COMMUNITY IMPACT AND DON'T, I MEAN, THEY'RE JUST ALL ABOUT BEING HAPPY PEOPLE. I GUESS THAT'S WHAT I I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO EXPLAIN IT. IT SEEMS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T HANG OUT THERE. SO , UM, FOR ME PERSONALLY, I DO SHOP THERE. THEY MAKE A CBD KIND OF A, A LOTION. MM-HMM . IT'S A PAIN RELIEF THING. MM-HMM . THAT I USE ON MY LOWER BACK TO GREAT EFFECT. MM-HMM . MY WIFE USES SOME, UH, CBD SLEEP TABLETS TO HELP HER AT NIGHT. YEP. SO, BUT I'M NOT BUYING THEIR PRE-ROLLS . UH, SO, UH, SO YEAH. SO SOME OF THAT STUFF, YOU KNOW, THE PAIN RELIEF STUFF SEEMS TO BE WORKING FOR ME, SO, UH, BUT YOU'RE, I AGREE. THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT THE PROBLEM. THEY'RE NOT HERE REALLY TARGETING HERE. RIGHT. AWESOME. VERY WELL CRAFTED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU AND YOUR TEAM DID A FANTASTIC JOB. PLANNING'S GONNA BE MAD AT US, BUT THAT'S OKAY. WELL, YOU KNOW, PLANNING AND, UM, BUILDING AND CODE ACTUALLY, UM, PROBABLY DID MOST OF THE WORK ON THIS. I MADE SOME OH, FANTASTIC. I MADE SOME CHANGES AND SO THEY ACTUALLY, THEY NEEDED CREDIT FOR, UM, SUGGESTING THE DIRECTION WE'RE GONNA GO. AND I JUST DID WHAT LAWYERS DO, I JUST KIND OF WORDS IN THERE, . UH, BUT THEY DID MOST OF THE WORK ON THIS. MR. RAYMOND. THANK YOU. I, I THINK THAT THIS SOLVES ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT WE WERE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT. NOPE, THAT WAS GOOD TO ME. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD. I DON'T EITHER. MR. THOMAS, ARE YOU READY TO THROW THIS OVER TO COUNSEL? YEAH, SO WE WERE GONNA ADD ON THE SECOND PARAGRAPH THERE, WE'RE GONNA ADD THE ADD INCLUDING ITEMS LABELED NOVELTY. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK THIS IS READY TO REPORT BACK TO COUNSEL. PERFECT. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL RIGHT. UM, THAT BRINGS US TO ITEM FOUR, WHICH IS ADJOURN. IT IS 5 26. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.