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Y'ALL READY TO START? EVERYBODY? OKAY.
IT IS 4:49 PM ON APRIL 7TH, 2026.
AND THIS IS THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE MEETING.
WE HAVE COUNCILMAN JOE THOMAS, AND COUNCILMAN JEFF BASS JOINING US AND MULTIPLE STAFF.
WE WILL START WITH APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES.
ITEM ONE A, A MOTION TO APPROVE.
DO WE HAVE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK? NO, WE DO NOT.
UH, WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM THREE A REVIEW AND DISCUSS POSSIBLE AMENDMENTS TO THE DEFINITIONS IN SECTION 32 POINT 50 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES RELATED TO PROPERTY MAINTENANCE AND NUISANCES.
DO WE HAVE A STAFF PRESENTATION ON THIS ITEM? UH, NO MA'AM.
UH, WE JUST LOOKING FOR GUIDANCE.
LOOKING FOR GUIDANCE, RIGHT? THIS IS SCOPING FOR TODAY? YES.
SO THIS WILL BE A SCOPING SESSION.
UM, I ACTUALLY BROUGHT THIS ITEM FORWARD BECAUSE, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS, THERE ARE VERY STRICT RULES AS TO THE STORAGE OF BUILDING MATERIALS.
THERE HAS TO BE SCREENING ON FENCES.
THE BUILDING MATERIALS CAN'T GO ABOVE THE FENCE LINE, UM, AND BE SEEN VISUALLY FROM THE STREET AT ALL.
AND FOR RESIDENCES, THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
UM, WE ALLOW FOR SIX INCH, UH, WE ALLOW FOR BUILDING MATERIALS TO BE STORED SIX INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND.
AND I BELIEVE THERE'S A 60 DAY PERIOD BEFORE THEY HAVE TO MOVE THEM.
IS THAT CORRECT? OR IS THERE ANY TIME PERIOD? NO, FOR IMPROPER STORAGE, UH, WE ALLOW FOR NINE DAYS.
IT'S NINE DAYS AND THEN THAT'S THE COMPLIANCE PERIOD IS NINE.
UM, AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I BELIEVE THAT THERE SHOULDN'T BE BUILDING MATERIALS VISIBLE AT ALL ANYWHERE ON A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, MUCH LIKE A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.
SO, UM, THAT WAS THE THE POINT I WANTED TO DISCUSS.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE ALWAYS IN FAVOR OF, UM, ANY METHOD THAT MAKES OUR ENFORCEMENT EASIER, GIVES US MORE, UH, LEVERAGE, MORE CHIEF AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE THE APPEARANCE OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS MORE ACCEPTABLE.
SO WE HAVE NO QUALMS WITH, IF THERE'S A WAY TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE IN A WAY THAT GIVES US MORE ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY, UH, THAT'S FEASIBLE AND THAT'S, UH, CAN BE IMPLEMENTED AND WE'RE IN FAVOR OF ANY SUCH EFFORTS.
SO, SO AS A MATTER OF SCOPING, I GUESS WE WOULD COME BACK WITH THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE AND MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS AS TO WHAT WE WOULD NEED TO CHANGE IN THE ORDINANCE TO BE ABLE TO, UH, PROHIBIT THE STORAGE OF BUILDING MATERIALS IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, EXCEPT I GUESS FOR LOADING AND OFFLOADING AND TYPE OF STUFF.
AND I DON'T CARE IF IT'S IN SOMEONE'S GARAGE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT NEIGHBORS SHOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT IT.
UM, DO WE HAVE ANY HISTORY ON THIS? SO WHAT WAS THE, WHAT WAS THE ORDINANCE LIKE BEFORE BEEN THE WAY IT IS NOW? WHY DID WE CHANGE IT? DO WE HAVE ANY OF THAT? ANYBODY? YEAH.
SO, UH, SO THE MAIN THING FOR TODAY IS MAKING SURE WE'RE IN UNDERSTANDING THE REQUEST.
AND SO COULD COULD YOU READ THROUGH THE CON THE, UH, ORDINANCE FOR ME? YEAH, YEAH.
MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE RIGHT ONE THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE DEFINITION FOR STORAGE.
DO YOU WANT ME TO GO AHEAD AND DO IT OR? OKAY.
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT BEFOREHAND.
I, I THINK WHAT WE'RE REFERRING TO IS BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE POSTED FOR 32 50 DEFINITIONS, UM, IMPROPER STORAGE, UH, SHALL MEAN THE OUTDOOR STORAGE FOR A PERIOD GREATER THAN 24 HOURS IN A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT AS DEFINED BY THE ZONING ORDINANCE OF ARTICLES AND MATERIALS SUBJECT TO DETERIORATION BY THE ELEMENTS, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, UH, FURNITURE AND APPLIANCES OTHER THAN THOSE CUSTOMARILY INSTALLED OR USED OUT OF DOORS, BOXES, VEHICLE PARTS AND PAPER.
ANY MATERIAL WHICH IS STORED IN A DISORDERLY MANNER OR IN SUCH A MANNER AS TO OFFER HARBORAGE TO VERMIN, ANY CUT WOOD, FIREWOOD, LUMBER, OR OTHER BUILDING MATERIAL EXCEPT MASONRY, WHICH IS NOT STORED IN A, UH, STORED A MINIMUM OF SIX INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND.
IS THAT THE, THE ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? THAT IS, YES.
SO IN, IN SOME CASES WE'VE HAD, I THINK THAT EXCEPTION HAS BEEN
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A POINT OF CONTENTION, UH, THE EXCEPTION WHERE IT MENTIONS BUILDING MATERIALS THAT ARE SOMEWHAT EXEMPT AS LONG AS THEY'RE STORED SIX INCHES OFF THE GROUND.SO ACCORDING TO THAT, OUR INTERPRETATION, UM, IS THAT YOU CAN HAVE A PLETHORA OF BUILDING MATERIALS AS LONG AS IT'S STORED SIX INCHES OFF THE GROUND, EVEN IF THAT'S VISIBLE TO THE NEIGHBORS.
AND SO WE'RE LIMITED AS FAR AS OUR ENFORCEMENT WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE SITUATIONS.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO ELIMINATE BUILDING MATERIALS FROM THAT DEFINITION IN RESIDENTIAL.
IS THERE AN EXAMPLE OR AN AD? WELL, AN EXAMPLE THAT WE, YES, IF WE COULD JUST, SO WE CAN GO LOOK AT AND MAKE SURE WE'RE SEEING.
'CAUSE THERE'S, I THINK THERE'S ALSO TREY, ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY THERE THAT WE MAY CONSIDER, UM, THE MATERIAL THAT'S NOT IN, UM, SORRY, I'M FIGHTING THROUGH A MIGRAINE RIGHT NOW, SO YOU HAVE TO GIMME A SECOND.
UM, WHAT WAS THE SECOND PART OF THE ORDINANCE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT A FEW MINUTES AGO? THE MATERIALS THAT ARE, UM, OH MY GOSH.
YOU TALKING ABOUT THE, LIKE THE RUBBISH? YES.
YEAH, WE'VE GOT, IF IT'S, IF IT'S NOT COMPLETE MATERIALS, WE, THEY COULD CALL, IT COULD FALL UNDER SOMETHING ELSE SUCH AS REFUGE, WHICH SHALL MEAN ANY, UM, HOMOGENEOUS OR HETEROGENEOUS ACCUMULATION OF WORN OUT, USED UP BROKEN, REJECTED, OR WORTHLESS MATERIALS.
SO IF IT'S WORN OUT OR USED UP OR THEN RUBBISH SHALL MEAN TRASH, DEBRIS, RUBBLE, STONE FRAGMENTS OF BUILDING MATERIALS, MOUNDS OF DIRT OR ROCK AND ANY OTHER MATERIAL.
SO IF IT'S NOT COMPLETE MATERIAL, IF IT'S, IF IT'S FRAGMENTS OF BUILDINGS MATERIAL, THEN THAT WOULD FALL UNDER, UH, RUBBISH INSTEAD OF IMPROPER STORAGE.
FOR THE PURPOSE OF SCOPING CHAIR, CAN I MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND SO THAT WE CAN GET A SCOPE PROPERLY.
IF, IF SOMEBODY, YOUR CONCERN IS BECAUSE BUILDING MATERIALS STORED SIX INCHES OFF THE GROUND ARE EXCLUDED FROM IMPROPER STORAGE, SOMEBODY COULD HAVE DELIVERED 202 BY FOURS, PUT 'EM SIX INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND AND LEAVE THEM THERE FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO.
AND WE NEED TO FIX THAT DEFINITION SO THAT IF THEY CAN STORE THEM THERE FOR A PERIOD WHILE THEY'RE DOING THE ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION, MAYBE, OR MAYBE NOT.
JUST WHILE THEY'RE MOVING THEM, I WOULD SAY THEY MUST HAVE AN ACTIVE PERMIT IF, ON THAT PROPERTY, IF THEY'RE UTILIZING BUILDING MATERIALS.
SO JUST SO WE HAVE SOME FRAME FRAMEWORK OF WHAT WE WOULD BRING BACK AS POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.
SO, UH, I'M THINKING OF THE, UH, THE NEIGHBOR KITTY CORNER FROM ME THAT'S HAVING A NEW ROOF PUT ON MM-HMM
SO THE DAY BEFORE THE SHINGLE COMPANY DELIVERS TWO PALLETS OF SHINGLES.
THOSE ARE ON FOUR INCH PALLETS, SO NOT SIX INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND.
BUT THEN THE NEXT DAY, THOSE GUYS ARE OUT THERE TEARING THOSE PALLETS APART, HAULING 'EM UP A LADDER, HAULING 'EM ONTO THE ROOF.
AND SO IS THERE ANY, WOULD THOSE GUYS BE IN VIOLATION AS SOON AS THEY DROPPED IT IN THE DRIVEWAY WAITING FOR THE NEXT DAY? NO, THAT'S WHY, I MEAN, IF THEY HAVE AN ACTIVE PERMIT FOR THE PROPERTY, THEN THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE MATERIALS THERE TO, YOU KNOW, WORK ON WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEIR PROJECT IS.
UM, I THINK THERE DO NEED TO BE LIMITATIONS ON THAT.
IF THE PERMIT, IF THE, IF THEY HAVE A PERMIT FOR TWO YEARS AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANY WORK, THEN THERE'S A PROBLEM THERE.
SO MAYBE EVEN RECOMMEND A TIME LIMIT AS TO HOW LONG THEY CAN HAVE THAT EVEN WITH AN ACTIVE PERMIT.
THERE, THERE ARE GONNA BE SOME PERMIT, THERE ARE GONNA BE SOME PROJECTS, IF YOU WILL, THAT WOULD NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT, BUT WOULD BE BUILDING MATERIALS SUCH AS A FINCH FENCE THAT IT'S, UH, THAT'S OF THE SAME HEIGHT, SAME PERIMETER.
UH, CURRENTLY THERE'S NO NECESSITY FOR A PERMIT IF THEY'RE JUST REPLACING THE SAME FENCE AND IT'S THE SAME MATERIAL, EVERYTHING ELSE.
UM, SO IN THAT INSTANCE, THERE WOULD BE BUILDING MATERIAL ON THERE, BUT THEY WOULD NOT NECESSARILY HAVE A PERMIT.
AND IF THE FENCE IS DOWN, 'CAUSE THEY'RE REPLACING IT, I'M, I'M JUST, MAYBE I'M GETTING INTO THE, IF THEY HAVE 24 HOURS TO DO THAT,
WELL, I MEAN THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO USE SOME SUBJECTIVITY, OBVIOUSLY.
ALSO ON THE, ON THE LINES, THE SUBJECTIVITY.
AND AS FAR AS DEFINITIONS GO, I KNOW, I KNOW YOU CARE ABOUT THE ARCS, SO WHERE DOES YARD ART, LANDSCAPE ART, THOSE KIND OF THINGS FIT INTO THIS.
FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE, UM, LIKE AN OLD ANTIQUE PLOW IS A PART OF THEIR LANDSCAPE OR, UM, I'VE SEEN, UM, THERE'S A HOUSE NORTH HERE WHERE THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, TAKEN OLD TIRES AND STACKED THEM UP PAINTED.
THEY'RE RED AND WHITE LOOK LIKE LITTLE MUGS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LEAVING ROOM FOR, YOU KNOW, SUBJECTIVITY ON THOSE KIND OF THINGS AS WELL.
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I, I THINK IN THE SAME VEIN AS THERE, THE CODE INSPECTOR WOULD HAVE, I THINK THE SAY ON THAT AND WOULD BE ABLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT'S ACTUALLY AN ART PIECE OR TRASH.AND I GUESS THAT'S SUBJECTIVE TOO, IN SOMETI IN SOME WAYS
BUT THE, I I THINK YOU KNOW WHERE I'M GOING WITH IT.
I'VE, UM, WE HAVE STRICTER RULES FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES AND THEIR STORAGE OF BUILDING MATERIALS THAN WE DO IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
AND, AND IF AT THE VERY LEAST THOSE SHOULD MATCH.
SO MY, MY INITIAL THOUGHTS ARE TO INCLUDE SOME LANGUAGE THAT SPEAKS TO ACTIVE USE.
UH, AS CHRIS MENTIONED, SOMETIMES THAT REQUIRES A PERMIT.
SOME CASES THERE MAY NOT BE MM-HMM
UH, THE TRICKY PART WILL BE DEFINING ACTIVE USE.
DOES THAT MEAN 24 HOURS, 48 HOURS? UH, IT COULD BE A JOB THAT TAKES TWO WEEKS MM-HMM
AND SO ARE WE MEASURING, IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF SUBJECTIVITY TO FIGURE OUT IS THIS BEING ACTIVELY UTILIZED OR JUST STORED OUTSIDE FOR PERIODS OF TIME WITHOUT BEING USED? RIGHT.
WELL, CURRENTLY IF THOSE ARE BEING STORED OUTSIDE FOR, UH, AN ACTIVE PROJECT, THEY HAVE TO BE SIX INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND.
SO ALREADY WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT 24 HOURS OF HAVING BUILDING MATERIALS ON THE GROUND.
LIKE THAT'S ALREADY THE, THE REQUIREMENT.
THE, THAT'S ALREADY THE, THE THRESHOLD.
SO IF WE MOVE TO, UH, ADDRESS AN ACTIVE PROJECT, I THINK THAT WE'RE ONLY LOOKING AT THOSE MATERIALS THAT ARE BEING STORED SIX INCHES OFF THE GROUND BECAUSE ALREADY THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO STORE THOSE BUILDING MATERIALS ON THE GROUND.
UH, YES, I'M, I'M TECHNICALLY BY THE DEFINITION, AND, AND CHRIS, YOU MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION ON THIS.
UM, THE STORAGE, HOW I, I INTERPRET THE SPIRIT OF THE RULE IS IF YOU'RE STORING FOR LONG, LONG-TERM, LET'S SAY YOU HAVE BAGS OF MULCH, BRICKS, UM, FIREWOOD THAT YOU'RE STORING FOR LONG-TERM PURPOSES, YES.
UM, HOWEVER, IF SOMEONE IS COMING TO DO AN ACTIVE PROJECT, IT MAY NOT BE FEASIBLE FOR US TO REQUIRE THEM TO PLACE ALL BRICKS IN ALL MATERIALS, SIX INCHES OFF THE GROUND.
I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD COMPLY WITH THAT OR DO COMPLY WITH THAT.
UM, JUST BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S GONNA BE UTILIZED FAIRLY QUICKLY.
UM, PERMITS HAVE A TWO, UM, A TWO YEAR PROJECT LIMIT.
I'M, I DON'T WANNA OVERSTEP MY, MY BOUND, BUT YEAH, IT'S, IT'S CLOSE.
THERE ARE SOME THAT HAVE A, A SHORTER TIMEFRAME, BUT PERMITS LAST, I THINK TWO YEARS IS ABOUT RIGHT.
PERMITS LAST AS LONG AS THE PROJECT LASTS AND YOU CALL, YOU CALL FOR AN INSPECTION AND TISSUE AN INSPECTION, YOU SO CONTINUES THE PROJECT.
UM, SO YOU GO AND YOU SEE THE BUILDING MATERIALS THERE, WOULD YOU CONTACT THE RESIDENT AND SAY, WHAT'S YOUR TIMELINE ON THIS PROJECT? AND SAY, OKAY, THIS FENCING MATERIAL'S HERE AND MY CONTRACTOR'S GOTTEN DELAYED, HIS WIFE'S GOTTEN SICK AND IT'S GONNA BE TWO WEEKS BEFORE HE GET STARTED.
HE WAS SUPPOSED TO START TOMORROW AND HE JUST CALLED ME.
ARE THERE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU WOULD REACH OUT TO THEM AND, AND MAKE A GOOD COMMON SENSE VALUATION ON WHETHER THIS IS REALLY A VIOLATION OR THIS IS SOME CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND THEIR CONTROL? YES, SIR.
AND IN MOST CASES, MOST CASES PEOPLE HAVE GOOD INTENT.
IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE HAVING MATERIAL DELIVERED, YOU'RE INSTALLING THE FENCE, THE CLOCK IS TICKING, YOU'RE GOING TO INSTALL THAT FENCE RELATIVELY QUICKLY.
BUT IN THOSE CASES, COUNCIL MEMBER THOMAS, ABSOLUTELY, WE'RE GONNA ALWAYS WORK WITH THE RESIDENTS IF IT MAKES SENSE, SOMETHING, SOMETIMES LIFE HAPPENS AND WE NEED TO, TO ADJUST, BUT THAT'S GONNA BE THE, THE EXCEPTION VERSUS THE RULE.
BUT WHEN THOSE EXCEPTIONS HAPPEN, THEN YES, WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA WORK WITH THE RESIDENTS.
ARE WE REALLY TALKING ABOUT LIKE A CONTRACTOR WHO'S BUYING EXCESS INVENTORY OR SOMETHING AND JUST STORING IT AT HIS PLACE TILL HE HAS A JOB THAT COMES ALONG THAT NEEDS HIS PALLET OF SHINGLES THAT AMONG MANY OTHER THINGS.
SOME PEOPLE REALLY GOOD INTENT.
AND I CAN EMAIL THOSE ADDRESSES TO YOU IF YOU LIKE.
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HAVE PROBABLY NOT SINGLE OFFENDERS.
UM, NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IT ALSO KIND OF ADDRESSES SOME OF THOSE HOME-BASED BUSINESSES, CONTRACTOR BUSINESSES WHERE THEY STORE, THEY HAVE A, A REGULAR SUPPLY OF BUILDING STORAGE MATERIALS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A BRICK AND MORTAR, SO THEY USE THEIR HOUSE TO DO IT.
LIKE I SAID, I DON'T CARE WHAT PEOPLE STORE INSIDE THEIR HOUSE OR IN THEIR GARAGE, THAT IS UP TO THEM AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TURN THEIR GARAGE INTO A ROOM WITHOUT HAVING A GARAGE TO
UM, BUT, UH, WHEN NEIGHBORS GO OUTSIDE AND THEY SEE SEVEN FEET OF BUILDING MATERIALS THAT HAVE EITHER BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE OR KEEP MOVING, ROTATING AROUND, THAT'S NOT FAIR.
SO IT'S REALLY FROM, IS IT FROM THE, FROM THE FRONT STREET OR IF THEY'VE GOT AN ALLEY, THEN YOU, THAT WOULD, IT WOULD BE THE SAME REQUIREMENT, I WOULD SAY FROM ANY VISIBILITY DIRECTION.
SO COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY IT IS THREE SIX.
AND, AND SO WITH, WITH RESIDENTIAL, WE TREAT IT THE SAME WAY.
SO OUR, OUR ORDINANCES ARE WRITTEN TO SAY ANY, ANYTHING THAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH INCLUDES THE ALLEYS AND THE STREETS AND THE SIDEWALK.
SO DOESN'T MATTER HOW IT'S VISIBLE, IF IT'S ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC, THEN IF WE CAN SEE IT, IT IS CONSIDERED A VIOLATION.
DO Y'ALL NEED ANY OTHER IDEAS OR
WE WANT TO, I ELIMINATE THAT LOOPHOLE FOR, AMONG OTHER THINGS, HOME-BASED BUSINESSES THAT STORE MATERIALS ON A REGULAR BASIS.
UH, CARVING OUT WHAT AN ACTIVE PROJECT LOOKS LIKE.
THAT'S GONNA BE THE, PROBABLY THE CHALLENGING PART'S GONNA REQUIRE SOME, UH, SUBJECTIVITY IS WHAT'S AN ACTIVE PROJECT.
UH, BUT IF IT'S INACTIVE AND IT'S MEANT TO BE STORED FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME, UH, WE WANNA HAVE THAT SCREENED FROM THE PUBLIC AND SIX INCHES OFF THE GROUND AS WELL.
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, SCREENED FROM PUBLIC VIEW.
SO WE'LL WORK ON SOME LANGUAGE AND WORK WITH OUR ATTORNEYS AND GET SOMETHING BACK.
ALRIGHT THEN THAT LEADS US TO ITEM FOUR.