[00:00:04]
AND LET ME SEE, TODAY IS FRIDAY, MAY THE 30TH, 2025, AND WE ARE, UM, CONVENING FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION, UM, MEETING.SO, UM, ITEM NUMBER ONE, OR WE'VE ALREADY CALLED THE MEETING TO ORDER.
SO ITEM NUMBER TWO IS TO CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA.
I MOVE THAT WE CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA.
ITEM NUMBER THREE ON THE AGENDA IS TO CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE COMMISSION MEETING ON MARCH 28TH, 2025.
MADAM CHAIR, MOVE ADOPTION OF THE MINUTES FROM MARCH 28TH, 2025.
ALRIGHT, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.
SO THE MINUTES FROM THE COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 28TH, 2025 ARE APPROVED.
AND THEN MOVING ALONG TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR IS TO CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE ELIGIBILITY LIST FROM THE FIRE ENTRANCE EXAMINATION CONDUCTED ON APRIL THE 12TH, 2025.
THIS WAS POLICE? YEAH, THIS ONE'S POLICE.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT LIST? I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE IT.
THAT ITEM NUMBER FOUR IS APPROVED.
ITEM NUMBER FIVE, CONSIDER ANY PENDING FIRE DRIVER PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATION APPEALS FROM THE EXAMINATION CONDUCTED ON APRIL THE 28TH, 2025.
AND I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE A COUPLE OF APPEALS.
SO WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK? I DON'T KNOW IF I WANTED TO YOU GUYS.
THERE'S NO WHAT ABOUT THIS RIGHT HERE? GOOD.
YOU WOULD STATE YOUR NAME, KYLE TART.
HAVE A SEAT AND YOU CAN HAVE A SEAT.
UM, SO THE QUESTION I WAS APPEALING WAS QUESTION NUMBER 10.
UH, DO YOU GUYS WANT ME TO READ IT FOR YOU? YES.
AN ENGINE COMPANY ADVANCES 400 FEET OF TWO AND A HALF INCH HOSE TO THE FIFTH FLOOR OF A BUILDING FOR INTACT.
DETERMINE THE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS DUE TO FRICTION AND ELEVATION WHEN FLOWING 200 GALLONS PER MINUTE THROUGH A FOG STREAM.
NOZZLE COEFFICIENT FOR TWO AND A HALF INCH IS TWO, AND THE EXACT HEIGHT OF THE FIFTH FLOOR IS UNKNOWN.
SO IF WE GO TO THAT PAGE IN THE FIRE DRIVER BOOK, THIS EXACT QUESTION IS NOT LISTED.
UH, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN CHANGED.
UH, UM, THE ANSWER IN THIS ONE IS 71.2 PSI, UH, FOR THE LISTED ANSWERS, UH, THE ONE THAT WAS DEEMED CORRECT BY THE TEST WAS 152 PSI.
THAT IS ANSWERING THE QUESTION OF WHAT IS THE NET PUMP DISCHARGE PRESSURE, NOT THE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS, UH, BECAUSE IT ADDS 100 FOR THE FOG STREAM NOZZLE.
WHEN DETERMINING YOUR, UH, TOTAL PRESSURE OR TOTAL TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS DUE TO FRICTION ELEVATION, YOU DO NOT INCLUDE THE FOG STREAM NOZZLE AS SEEN.
ON PAGE TWO 13, ABOUT FOUR FIFTHS OF THE WAY DOWN, IT SAYS FRICTION LOSS FOR HANDLINE NOZZLES WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED AS THIS IS GENERALLY INSIGNIFICANT IN THE OVERALL PRESSURE LOSS OF THE HOSE ASSEMBLY.
SO THE CORRECTLY ANSWER SHOULD BE 52 PSI.
THAT WASN'T A LISTED OPTION, SO I JUST PICKED A RANDOM ONE BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
UH, I DO THAT 132 PSI AND 152 PSI WERE FAR TOO HIGH FOR THE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS AND THAT 32 WAS FAR TOO LOW.
COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I DO.
SO IF THE CORRECT ANSWER IS NOT SHOWN MM-HMM
WHAT ARE YOUR INSTRUCTIONS TO PICK THE ONES CLOSEST TO IT OR, UH, I DON'T RECALL EVER GETTING INSTRUCTIONS OF WHAT TO DO.
SO I JUST, I PICKED AN ANSWER BECAUSE I WAS ONLY ON QUESTION 10.
I HAD 90 MORE TO GO AND I DIDN'T WANT TO GET BOGGED DOWN.
[00:05:02]
MARIA, ANY QUESTIONS? I GUESS, I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE, AND, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR, FOR YOUR DILIGENCE.UH, MY QUESTION WOULD BE, UM, WERE THE, WERE THE REFERENCE MATERIALS IN THE BOOK THAT YOU WERE REFERENCING, IS THAT TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE OR ARE THESE, ARE THESE EXPECTED TO BE, OR WOULD YOU EXPECT THEM TO BE EXACT, UH, DIMENSIONS AND EXACT PARAMETERS? SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, UH, THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE EXACT EVERY OTHER QUESTION THAT I LOOKED AT FROM THIS TEST AND THEN THE PREVIOUS TEST, YOU CAN FIND THE EXACT MATERIAL WORD FOR WORD, UH, AS, AS THE, AS THE ANSWER.
I MISSED A, A FEW OTHER QUESTIONS AND I LOOKED, AND THE WAY THAT THOSE WERE WRITTEN, THEY WERE EXACTLY AS WRITTEN ON THE TEST.
WERE IN THE BOOK AS WELL THAT SAME WAY.
I BELIEVE THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE EXAM ARE HERE AND WE CAN PROVIDE THOSE SO YOU CAN READ THOSE INSTRUCTIONS AND REVIEW THOSE.
SHE'S GONNA GRAB AN EXAM, UH, TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE INSTRUCTIONS.
WOULD IT BE HELPFUL TO SPEAK TO THE MM-HMM
TO THE GUIDANCE AS WELL? MEANING THAT IT TECHNICALLY IS NOT EXACTLY, THE PAGE NUMBERS ARE A REFERENCE.
I WOULD'VE ADVISED THE COMMISSION TO GO AHEAD AND GO THROUGH WHOEVER ELSE WANTS TO SPEAK ON THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION, HEAR EVERYBODY'S ARGUMENTS, AND THEN WE'LL STEP BACK AND WE'LL REVIEW THE LOCAL RULES TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU SHOULD BE CONSIDERING.
WE'LL REVIEW THE EXAM INSTRUCTIONS AND THEN WE CAN CALL PEOPLE BACK UP IF THERE'S FURTHER QUESTIONS AFTER THAT.
ARE WE GOING ONE AT A AT A TIME? ONE AT A TIME.
KYLE, DO YOU, DO YOU AGREE WITH THE APPEAL OR DO YOU, UH, I'VE ACTUALLY GOT SOMETHING WRITTEN UP HERE.
UH, SO MORNING, MY NAME IS KYLE BURTON.
I'D LIKE TO PROVIDE INPUT WHY I BELIEVE QUESTION 10 SHOULD BE RECORDED AND SCORED AS IS ON PAGE 2 26 OF THE PUMPING AND ARROW APPARATUS DRIVER OPERATOR HANDBOOK THIRD EDITION.
THERE IS AN EXAMPLE QUESTION OUTLINED IN THE BOOK, ASKING TO DETERMINE THE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS DUE TO FRICTION AND ELEVATION.
THIS LINES UP EXACTLY TO WHAT'S BEING ASKED IN THE EXAM.
ON THE SECOND LINE OF QUESTION NUMBER 10, IT STATES DETERMINE THE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS DUE TO FRICTION AND ELEVATION MATCHING THE BOOK WORD FOR WORD.
DESPITE THE VARIABLES BEING DIFFERENT.
AS MR. TART INDICATED HIS RESPONSIBILITY OF EVERY FIRE DRIVER TO BE FAMILIAR WITH THESE EQUATIONS, MR. TART STATES IN HIS APPEAL TO AND I QUOTE, CONSIDER ANY NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS TO ENSURE THAT THE FINAL SCORES ACCURATELY REFLECT THE CANDIDATE'S KNOWLEDGE AND READINESS FOR THE ROLE.
IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF EVERY FIRE DRIVER.
THAT FAMILIARITY WITH THE FRICTION LOSS FORMULA AND HOW TO APPLY THE VARIABLES IN THE GIVEN QUESTION DISPLAYS THE KNOWLEDGE AND READINESS FOR THE ROLE THAT MR. TARRANT IS IMPLYING.
I'D LIKE TO DEMONSTRATE WHY THE TEST QUESTION IS APPROPRIATE AND THE ANSWER IS CORRECT AS IS, UH, TO DETERMINE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS AND USING THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THE TEXTBOOK.
THE SUM OF FRICTION LOSS WOULD BE 32 PSI.
THE SUM OF ELEVATION PRESSURE LOSS IS 20 PSI AND THE FRICTION LOSS DUE TO USING A FOG STREAM NOZZLE WOULD BE A HUNDRED PSI FOR A HUNDRED FOR A TOTAL OF 152 PSI MR. TERRANCE'S REASONING THAT THE ANSWER SHOULD BE 52 PSI IS LEAVING OUT 100 PSI FOR A FOG STREAM NOZZLE, MAKING THE CORRECT CHOICE AS D 152 PS.
I BELIEVE THE INFORMATION I PRESENTED VALIDATES THE QUESTION AND ANSWER CHOICE AND SCORES SHOULD BE RECORDED AND SCORED AS IS.
IF THERE'S ANYTHING I CAN PREFER OR ANYTHING I CAN PROVIDE, UH, FURTHER, JUST LET ME KNOW.
SO YOU, YOU, YOUR ANSWER WAS D WAS THAT THE ANSWER THAT YOU CHOSE? CORRECT.
AND AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE CALCULATIONS THAT, UM, YOU MADE 152 IS THE CORRECT ANSWER, CORRECT? YES, MA'AM.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YEAH, COULD YOU REPEAT YOUR, YOUR CALCULATION? 32 PSI IS WHAT? SO THE, UM, AND I CAN OUTLINE THE FORMULA IF I NEED TO.
UM, BUT THE SUM OF FRICTION LOSS WOULD BE 32 PSI.
THE SUM OF THE ELEVATION PRESSURE LOSS IS 20 PSI, WHICH GIVES YOU 52 PSI.
AND THEN THE FRICTION LOSS DUE TO USING A FOG STREAM NOZZLE WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL 100 PSI FOR A TOTAL OF 152 PSI.
[00:10:01]
AND THOSE, THOSE ARE JUST THE ADDITIVE IN THE FORMULA? YES.UH, IT'S HARD 'CAUSE I AGREE WITH KYLE, BUT I ALSO DISAGREE WITH KYLE
SO, UM, I'M ALSO, UH, PROTESTING THE PROTEST.
I THINK THE QUESTION SHOULD REMAIN VALID.
UM, I ALSO ACHIEVED, UH, 1 52 PSI, UH, AS MY ANSWER.
UM, AND THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS, UH, I WANNA MENTION.
SO, MR. TART, UH, BROUGHT UP AN EXAMPLE FROM THE BOOK, UH, WHICH ONLY INCLUDED, UM, PRESSURE, UH, PRESSURE LOSS FROM FRICTION AND ELEVATION.
IT DIDN'T INCLUDE THE NOZZLE PRESSURE, BUT IN THE QUESTION, A FOG NOZZLE WAS NOT SPECIFIED.
UH, I LOOKED THROUGH THE BOOK LAST NIGHT.
EVERY QUESTION THAT SPECIFIES A FOG NOZZLE INCLUDES THE A HUNDRED PSI PRESSURE, UH, INCLUSION IN THE EQUATION, UH, WHICH WOULD MAKE OUR ANSWER 152 AS OPPOSED TO 52.
UH, THERE'S NO EXAMPLE IN THE BOOK THAT INCLUDES A FOG NOZZLE THAT STATES IT'S A FOG NOZZLE ON A HANDLINE, UH, THAT DOES NOT ALSO INCORPORATE THE A HUNDRED PSI PRESSURE INCLUSION.
UM, ALSO, UH, OF THE THREE OTHER ANSWERS ON THE QUESTION, NONE OF THEM WERE CORRECT.
I DON'T THINK ANY OF US THINK ANY OF THE OTHER THREE QUESTIONS OR ANSWERS COULD HAVE BEEN CORRECT.
UM, THE ONLY ONE THAT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY CORRECT AND THE ONE THAT WAS THE MOST CORRECT, WHICH TO, TO ANSWER THE QUESTION PREVIOUSLY, UH, ASKED.
I BELIEVE THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE TO GIVE THE BEST ANSWER OR ANSWER, UH, YOU KNOW, SELECT THE BEST ANSWER.
UM, THE ONE THAT WAS MOST CORRECT IS 1 52.
THE OTHER THREE ARE EQUALLY, UH, COMPLETELY INCORRECT.
UM, YOU'RE, UH, SAYING THAT THAT IS THE MOST CORRECT ANSWER, UM, IS IT THE CORRECT ANSWER? THAT IS MY BELIEF AND THAT'S WHAT I ACHIEVED IN MY CALCULATIONS.
SO YOU BELIEVE THAT'S THE RIGHT ANSWER? OKAY.
AND, AND THEN YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT THE, UH, FOG NOZZLE.
BEING REFERENCED IN THE QUESTION, IN THE QUESTION, UH, ON THE TEST, UH, IT STATED THAT WE WERE USING A FOG NOZZLE ON A HANDLINE.
LIKE I SAID, EVERY TIME IN THE BOOK, UH, IT SPECIFIED THAT THEY INCLUDED THE 100 PSI, UH, THAT WE'RE KIND OF ARGUING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT.
UM, SO THERE WAS NEVER A TIME IN THE BOOK WHERE IT SAID, WE HAVE A FOG NOZZLE ON A HAND LINE WHERE THAT PRESSURE INCLUSION WAS NOT, UH, CARRIED OVER.
SO YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO KNOW THAT BECAUSE FOG NOZZLE IS INCLUDED IN THE QUESTION THAT IT'S A HUNDRED PSI.
THAT'S MY, THAT'S MY ARGUMENT.
AND, AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THAT WOULD BASICALLY BE YOUR BASELINE TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, COMING IN, YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT.
AND MR. CHAIR, UH, WHAT WAS THIS WITNESS'S NAME? JOSHUA COOK.
JOSHUA? YEAH, WE MADE IT AS HARD AS POSSIBLE.
I AM HERE, UH, TO ALSO PROTEST AGAINST THE PROTEST.
I THINK THE QUESTION SHOULD REMAIN, UH, IT IS A VALID QUESTION, UH, TO GO ALONG WITH MR. COOK'S POINT.
THE QUESTION SPECIFIED THAT IT, IT WAS A FOUL NOZZLE.
THERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION IN THE TEST THAT WAS NOT PROTESTED, BUT IT SPECIFICALLY STATED WHAT TYPE OF NOZZLE AS WELL.
NO ONE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT QUESTION BECAUSE THEY GOT IT.
IT'S ONLY A PROBLEM WITH THIS QUESTION WHEN THEY DIDN'T GET IT RIGHT.
SO I, I MEAN, IF YOU DEDUCE, IF YOU, YOU KNOW, DEDUCTIVE REASONING TELLS US THAT IF YOU GET 52 AND THEY SPECIFICALLY SAID IT'S A FOG NOZZLE, WE SHOULD ADD 100 TO IT.
IF YOU SELECT 72, YOU'RE JUST GUESSING.
AND IF YOU GUESS, HOW DO WE REWARD YOU WITH THE CORRECT ANSWER? THAT IS MY ARGUMENT.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR, CAN YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME FOR ME? CIRCLE BELL.
I DO HAVE A COPY OF THE INSTRUCTIONS IF YOU STILL WANNA WANNA LOOK AT THEM.
OH, IS IT JUST ONE COPY? YEAH.
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I WONDER IF THIS WAS WHAT QUESTION? THERE WAS NUMBER 10, BUT THE INSTRUCTIONS, UM, HAVE TO READ THE QUESTION.SO LIKE THE BEST ANSWER FOR THE QUESTION, YOUR ANSWER SHOULD, YEAH.
ANY COMMISSIONERS, ANY COMMENTS? ANY, ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE FIREFIGHTERS? ANY, ANYBODY ELSE WANNA SAY ANYTHING? MADAM AGAIN? YEAH.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF I WAS ABOUT TO COME.
DID WE HEAR FROM MR. GOODNIGHT? IS MR. GOODNIGHT HERE? HE'S NOT HERE.
SO WE HAVE A WRITTEN APPEAL FROM MR. GOODNIGHT THAT WE SHOULD READ AND, AND REVIEW OKAY.
WHEN WE GET DONE WITH THIS, CERTAINLY.
YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND RESTATE YOUR NAME.
UH, SO JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS I WANTED TO, TO POINT OUT.
UH, I WAS GOING TO RESTATE THAT ON PAGE TWO 13 IT SAYS, FRICTION LOSS FOR HANDLINE NOZZLES WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED.
SO IT SAYS IN THE BOOK, NOT TO ADD FOR TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS OR FOR FRICTION LOSS, NOT TO ADD IN THE HANDLINE NOZZLE.
I'D ALSO LIKE TO STATE THE OTHER QUESTION, UH, THAT I DID NOT, UH, APPEAL, I BELIEVE DID NOT ASK FOR THE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS.
UM, AND SO THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T ADD IN OR THAT'S WHY I DID ADD IN THE A HUNDRED, UH, FOR THE FOG STREAM NOZZLE.
UM, DID YOU GET THAT QUESTION RIGHT? I BELIEVE SO.
UH, IS ASKING A DIFFERENT QUESTION.
UH, THE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS DUE TO FRICTION ELEVATION VERSUS SOMETHING LIKE THE TOTAL, UH, NET PUMP DISCHARGE PRESSURE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO, FOR A FOG STREAM NOZZLE, AS THESE GUYS KNOW, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HUNDRED PSI AT THE END OF IT TO GET AN ADEQUATE STREAM.
AND SO IT'S NOT A PRESSURE LOSS BECAUSE IF IT'S PRESSURE LOSS, YOU'D BE AT ZERO.
ONCE YOU GET THERE AND THEN THE WATER WOULD JUST FALL STRAIGHT DOWN.
SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HUNDRED PSI RIGHT AT THAT NOZZLE IN ORDER TO GET AN ADEQUATE FIRE STREAM.
UM, I THINK THAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING.
OH, AND THE OTHER THING, UM, I BELIEVE, YES.
THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT ARE, ARE EXAMPLES THAT MR. COOK WAS TALKING ABOUT, UH, THAT DO INCLUDE THE, UH, THE NOZZLE IN THE EQUATION.
I'M ASSUMING HE'S TALKING ABOUT WHERE IS IT? WELL, YOU KNOW IT NOW.
I CAN'T FIND IT, SO I GUESS I WON'T TALK ABOUT THAT ONE.
ALL I GOT FOR THAT IS, IT SAYS IN THE BOOK YOU SHOULDN'T ADD IN THE, THE PRESSURE LOSS OR THE FRICTION LOSS FOR THE HAND LINE NOZZLES.
GUESS IT MR. TURNER, REAL QUICKLY BEFORE YOU LEAVE, JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS ON THE OTHER RESPONSES THAT WERE AVAILABLE, THE OTHER OPTIONS THAT WERE AVAILABLE.
WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THOSE OTHER CALCULATIONS, THOSE OTHER ANSWERS PROVIDED ARE INCORRECT? WOULD YOU AGREE ON ON, I'M SORRY, CAN YOU RESTATE THE QUESTION ON QUESTION 10? YES.
THE OTHER ANSWERS THAT'S PROVIDED, THE 72, THE 1 32, THE 32 PSI, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THOSE, GIVEN YOUR EXPERIENCE, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THOSE ARE INCORRECT? YES.
I BELIEVE THE CORRECT ANSWER WAS 52 PSI.
BUT TO YOUR, TO YOUR POINT, YOU JUST MADE UHHUH
SO THE 152 IS THE CORRECT ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.
WHAT IS THE NET, UH, PUMP DISCHARGE PRESSURE? IT IS NOT THE TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS.
'CAUSE WE'RE NOT LOSING THAT A HUNDRED PSI AT THE END.
YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE IT TO HAVE AN ADEQUATE STREAM.
AND THAT'S WHY IT STATES ON PAGE TWO 13 THAT THE FRICTION LOSS FOR THE HANDLINE NOZZLES WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED.
I'M HAPPY TO READ THE APPEAL FROM FIREFIGHTER GOODNIGHT.
IT'S INCLUDED IN THE PACKET, BUT HE REFERENCES QUESTION 10.
UH, AND HIS BASIS FOR HIS APPEAL IS THE ANSWER KEY SHOWS D TO BE THE CORRECT ANSWER.
HOWEVER, THE CORRECT ANSWER SHOULD BE 52 PSI.
[00:20:01]
THE CORRECT ANSWER IS NOT A CHOICE.THE CORRECT ANSWER IS NOT A CHOICE.
AND THE EXAMPLE QUESTION IS NOT IN THE BOOK, ON THE PAGE NUMBER PROVIDED, AND THAT'S THE BASIS OF HIS APPEAL.
CAN I SAY ONE QUICK THING? SURE.
IF YOU WOULD COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE.
UH, THIS IS JOSHUA COOK SPEAKING AGAIN.
UH, IT'S HARD TO KIND OF GO BACK AND FORTH WITH YOUR BUDDY, UH, YOU KNOW, IN THIS FORMAT, BUT MM-HMM
UM, ANYWAY, JUST TO, JUST TO SPECIFY, UH, I KNOW KYLE WAS KIND OF DRAWING THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN, UH, NET PUMP, UH, DISCHARGE PRESSURE AND TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS.
UH, WHEN I WAS REFERRING TO ALL THOSE EXAMPLES THAT INCLUDED THE A HUNDRED PSI FOR THE FOG NOZZLE, THOSE WERE ALL QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKING FOR TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS.
UH, I WASN'T REFERRING TO ANYTHING THAT HAD THE TWO WITH NET DISCHARGE PRESSURE.
THIS WAS ALL TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS AS WAS ASKED IN THE, IN THE QUESTION.
THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
OUR LOCAL RULES REQUIRE THAT WE REVIEW EXCERPTS FROM THE LOCAL RULES, UM, RELATED TO THESE APPEALS AND DISCUSS AND DELIBERATE THOSE THINGS.
UH, I BELIEVE THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS ASKED OF HOW A WHILE AGO THAT THOSE ARE IN YOUR PACKET.
UH, THEY WERE INCLUDED BY THE DIRECTOR.
THERE'S SOME HIGHLIGHTS ON THOSE.
DO YOU HAVE, SHOULD BE IN THE FRONT POCKET.
DO, DO YOU, DO YOU WANT ME TO READ THOSE OR JUST MAKE SURE THAT, THAT WE ARE AWARE THAT THEY'RE HERE AND THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE, UH, THE LOCAL RULES SAY WE SHOULD REVIEW AND DISCUSS.
SO IT'S UP TO YOU ON WHETHER YOU WANNA READ THEM VERBATIM OR Y'ALL JUST WANNA DISCUSS THE ITEMS. YOU SHOULD BE OKAY CONSIDERED.
SO, UM, TO REVIEW AND DISCUSS THE PROPOSED APPEAL, THE PROCEDURE IS AN EMPLOYEE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATION MAY FILE A WRITTEN APPEAL FOR THE RESULTS OF THE PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATION IN WHICH THE EMPLOYEE PARTICIPATED.
ALL APPEALS MUST BE IN WRITING AND SPECIFY THE QUESTION, THE ANSWER, AND THE REFERENCE MATERIAL UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS BASED.
THE TEXT OF QUESTIONS, ALONG WITH THE ANSWERS BEING APPEALED, WILL BE PROVIDED TO THE DEPARTMENT HEAD FOR DISSEMINATION TO THOSE WHO TOOK THE EXAM FOLLOWING POSTING OF NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING.
AND THEN, UM, I'M GONNA SKIP THAT MIDDLE SECTION AND GO TO SEE WHICH SAYS OF THE FOLLOWING FACTORS WILL NOT SUPPORT AN APPEAL AND INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT, ARE NOT LIMITED TO NUMBER ONE EVIDENCE THAT OTHER REFERENCE MATERIALS OR SOURCES SUPPORT AN ANSWER, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN THE APPROVED ANSWER EVIDENCE THAT THERE EXISTS ANOTHER ANSWER WHICH IS ACCURATE IN CERTAIN LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT WHICH IS NOT ACCURATE GENERALLY, OR EVIDENCE THAT THE REFERENCE PAGE NUMBER IS INCORRECTLY STATED.
A PAGE NUMBER IS GIVEN ONLY TO ASSIST IN LOCATING THE BASIS FOR THE APPROVED ANSWER.
ARE THERE ANYTHING, ANY DISCUSSION COMMISSIONERS? IF NOT, I, I HAVE A MOTION, UH, MADAM CHAIR PRIOR TO THE MOTION, JUST WOULD LIKE TO STATE THAT THE LOCAL RECORD, I THINK, I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO STATE THIS FOR THE RECORD, BUT WE HAVE READ AND DISCUSSED THAT THE, THE LOCAL ORDINANCE AND, UH, IT APPEARS THAT THE APPLICANT WHO DID THE APPEAL DID FOLLOW THOSE GUIDELINES.
AND I THINK, GOING BACK TO ITEM C, I THINK THAT CLARIFIES ADDITIONALLY, ITEM C3 EVIDENCE THAT REFERENCE PAGE NUMBERS IN IS INCORRECTLY STATED.
A PAGE NUMBER IS GIVEN ONLY TO ASSIST IN LOCATE THE BASIS FOR THE APPROVED ANSWER.
SO I THINK THAT IS PRETTY MUCH GONNA LINE UP WITH THE MOTION THAT YOU'RE PREPARED TO MM-HMM
IS THAT OKAY? UM, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL.
[00:25:01]
YOU HAD TWO APPEALS BEFORE YOU, SO WE HAVE TO DO BOTH.SO THE, UM, I WILL START WITH THE APPEAL PRESENTED BY JOSHUA KNIGHT.
UM, I MOVE THAT WE DENY THE APPEAL.
AND THEN APPEAL NUMBER TWO BY KYLE TARRANT.
ALSO MOVE THAT WE DENY THAT APPEAL.
SO THAT, UM, APPEAL IS ALSO DENIED.
SO WE WILL MOVE ON TO, UM, ITEM NUMBER SIX ON OUR AGENDA.
AND THAT IS TO, WELL, I GUESS BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THAT, UM, I'D LIKE TO THANK THE, UM, THOSE THAT CAME AND, AND SPOKE AND GAVE THEIR PERSPECTIVES.
WE APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME TO CLARIFY AND HELP US IN OUR DECISION.
CAN I JUST ASK THE ATTORNEY ONE QUESTION? IS IT OKAY AS FAR AS FORM IF, UM, THE CHAIR MAKES THE MOTION AND IT'S ALL THOSE IN FAVOR VERSUS A SECOND? IS THAT OKAY? OH, DID I THINK WE SECONDED IT, RIGHT? NO, YOU, YOU DIDN'T.
SECOND WE CAN, WE CAN REDO IT TO COMPLY WITH THAT JUST TO MAKE SURE.
JUST BE, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS UNANIMOUS, WE'LL GO BACK DO IT ON THE MOTION ON BOTH OF THEM OR JUST A SECOND ONE? YOU DIDN'T DO IT ON EITHER.
CERTAINLY MADAM CHAIR, I MOVE THE DENIAL ON APPEAL FOR MR. GOODNIGHT.
SO THAT APPEAL IS DENIED AND THEN THE HEARING YEAH, THE APPEAL PRESENTED BY KYLE TART.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION? ONE QUICK COMMENT? I, UH, SURE, SURE.
IF YOU WOULD STEP UP TO THE MIC AND RESTATE YOUR NAME.
UH, KYLE JUST HANDED ME A BOOK AND I LOOKED THROUGH IT AND I GAVE YOU GUYS THE WRONG INFORMATION WHEN I CAME UP HERE AND SAID PUMP DISCHARGE VERSUS NET PRESSURE OR, UH, TOTAL PRESSURE LOSS.
UH, HE WAS CORRECT IN THAT, UH, DEFINITION AND THAT WAS INCORRECT.
SO DOES THAT CHANGE YOUR OPINION? IT DOESN'T CHANGE MY OPINION.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE, UH, THAT WAS CORRECTLY STATED.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR CLARIFYING.
SO ON THE APPEAL BY KYLE TARRANT, DO WE HAVE A MOTION, UH, MR. CHAIR? UM, MADAM CHAIR, I MOVE THAT WE, UH, DENIED THE APPEAL FOR MR. TARRANT.
SO THAT, UM, OF THE APPEAL PRESENTED BY KYLE TARRANT IS DENIED.
ITEM NUMBER SIX IS TO CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE ELIGIBILITY LIST FROM THE FIRE DRIVER PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATION CONDUCTED ON APRIL THE 28TH, 2025.
I MOVE THAT WE CONSIDER THE APPROVAL OF THE ELIGIBILITY LIST FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, UH, PROMOTIONAL EXAM CONDUCTED ON APRIL 28TH.
ITEM NUMBER SEVEN IS CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE ELIGIBILITY LIST FROM THE FIRE LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATION CONDUCTED ON APRIL THE 28TH, 2025.
MADAM CHAIR, I MOVE APPROVAL OF THE, UH, LIST FROM THE FIRE LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONAL EXAM ON APRIL 28TH, 25.
SO, UH, THAT LIST IS ALSO APPROVED.
ITEM NUMBER EIGHT IS, UH, TO CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE ELIGIBILITY LIST FROM THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF PROMOTIONAL EXAMINATION CONDUCTED ON APRIL THE 29TH, 2025.
I MOVE THAT WE CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE LIST FROM THE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF PROMOTIONAL EXAM CONDUCTED ON APRIL 29.
SO THAT LIST IS ALSO APPROVED.
MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER NINE IS, I GUESS JUST INFORMATIONAL FIRE ENTRANCE EXAM.
YES, THAT WE HAVE OUR FIRE ENTRANCE EXAM ACTUALLY NEXT SATURDAY.
WE HAVE 700 PLUS APPLICANTS, UH, FOR THAT EXAM.
[00:30:01]
SO AS USUAL, WE'LL BE RECRUITING FOR POLICE OFFICERS AT THE SAME TIME.SO DO USUALLY DO THE 700 SHOW UP? UM, NO.
ABOUT FIVE, BETWEEN FIVE AND 600.
SO, YOU KNOW, SO A GOOD NUMBER, HUGE CROWD.
MM-HMM
THAT'S THE ONLY FACILITY IN THE ENTIRE CITY THAT'S LARGE ENOUGH TO HOLD THE FIRE ENTRANCE EXAM.
BESIDES THE COLDWELL CENTER, WHEN WOULD YOU EXPECT, UM, THE RESULTS AND US NEEDING TO APPROVE THE LIST OR HEAR APPEALS? UM, NO APPEALS ON THE ENTRANCE EXAMS. SO WE NORMALLY, UM, FOR THE ENTRANCE EXAMS, WHETHER IT'S POLICE OR FIRE, WE KIND OF HOLD THOSE UNTIL WE HAVE, UM, ADDITIONAL, UM, EXAMS. WE DO HAVE A REQUEST FOR A COUPLE OF ADDITIONAL POLICE ENTRANCE EXAMS THAT ARE COMING UP.
SO, UM, TBD ON WHEN WE'LL BE HAVING A MEETING.
BUT NO IDEA, I MEAN, NO, NOTHING APPROXIMATE FOR THE PURPOSES OF SUMMER VACATION PLANNING.
WELL, UM, WE CAN CHAT OFFLINE IF, IF THERE WILL BE VACATIONS.
THAT WAY WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT NO MEETINGS HAPPEN WHILE Y'ALL WON'T BE AVAILABLE.
OR YOU COULD PLAN YOUR VACATION AROUND
OKAY, SO ITEM NUMBER 10 IS TO ADJOURN THE MEETING.
DID I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND OR A MOVE A MOTION? I'M SORRY, I MOVE THAT WE ADJOURN.