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THIS IS TUESDAY, JULY 12TH, 2022.

[Community Services Committee on July 12, 2022.]

[00:00:03]

IT IS 4:00 PM.

UM, I AM DEBRA MORRIS CHAIR OF THE COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE.

AND WITH ME, ARE THEY TWO COMMITTEE MEMBERS, COUNCIL MEMBER MORRIS, AND MORE NOT MY NAME MORE AND COUNCIL MEMBER LUCKED, UM, ALONG WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE STAFF.

SO WE WILL START WITH ITEM WANT APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 7TH, 2022 MEETING, UM, COMMITTEE MEMBERS.

HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES MOTION? WE APPROVE THE MINUTES.

SECOND.

THANK YOU ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

OKAY.

MOTION PASSES.

ALL RIGHT.

ITEM TO, UH, DISCUSS GENERAL PARK RULES AND HOURS OF OPERATION.

AND THE, I ASSUME YOU'RE UP FOR THIS GOOD AFTERNOON COUNCIL MEMBERS.

UH, WE WILL GO THROUGH, UM, A VERY SHORT POWERPOINT.

THERE'S NOT A LOT OF NEW INFORMATION HERE AND IT'S KIND OF, UH, UH, SHOWING THE, THE RECOMMENDED OR DISCUSS CHANGES IN THE PARK HOURS.

UM, ALL RIGHT.

IT WORKS.

IT'S GOOD.

SO ESSENTIALLY WE'VE GOT, UM, I'LL SUMMARIZE VERY QUICKLY.

WE'VE GOT A HANDFUL OF CHANGES HERE, UM, TO ADDRESS SOME ONGOING CONCERNS AND WE CAN COVER THOSE IN MORE DETAIL HERE IN A MOMENT.

UM, SO WE WOULD HAVE SOME RECOMMENDED CHANGES FOR, UM, 6:00 AM TO 10:00 PM ON THE BULK OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY PARKS.

UH, AND THEN WITH THE SPRING CREEK PRESERVES, THOSE TWO ADDRESS LOCATIONS OFF OF HOLFORD ROAD WOULD BE 6:00 AM UNTIL, UH, EITHER THIS SAYS 30 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET.

UH, IF WE WANT TO DISCUSS DUSK OR SOMETHING, UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE CERTAINLY CAN.

UM, AND THEN AGAIN, 6:00 AM TO MIDNIGHT ON THESE ENUMERATED PARKS THAT YOU SEE.

AND THE PURPOSE FOR THAT IS, IS THOSE HAVE ATHLETIC FACILITIES IN THEM.

AND SO THAT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO SEE, UH, THE GAMES IN THOSE AREAS GO TILL MIDNIGHT.

IF THEY HAVE A SPECIAL TOURNAMENT THAT GOES AROUND THE CLOCK PAST THE END, AND THEY CAN REQUEST, UH, MY PERMISSION TO DO THAT.

AND IT HAPPENS ON OCCASION, PARTICULARLY AT AUTOBON.

UM, SO THAT'S A BRIEF RUNDOWN OF THE, OF THE CHANGES I THINK CURRENTLY, UM, IT IS MIDNIGHT IN ALL OF THE PARKS, UM, AND IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED AT THE PARK BOARD LEVEL SOME MONTHS AGO.

UM, AND AGAIN, UH, VERY BRIEFLY AT THIS SUBCOMMITTEE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.

SO, UH, WITH THAT I'LL, I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION GOING FORWARD, MAYBE MEMBERS, ANY QUESTIONS? YES.

SO THE 6:00 AM TIME IS, IS A LITTLE BAD FOR ME.

I WORK, UM, I KNOW A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WORK, ESPECIALLY WHEN USING TRAILS OR WALKING PATHS WITHIN PARKS.

I LIKE TO GO TO THE PARK AT FIVE 30 IN THE MORNING AND, UM, BETWEEN FIVE AND FIVE 30 SO THAT I CAN MAKE IT TO WORK BY 8:00 AM.

AND 6:00 AM IS JUST A LITTLE TOO LATE FOR ME.

I'M IN THE MORNINGS.

I'M NOT.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM OPEN UNTIL 11, JUST BECAUSE MEAN, WE GET OUT OF A COUNCIL MEETING LATE.

I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE MY DOGS OUT FOR A WALK.

UM, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND THE, THE NEED FOR, UH, A SHORTER EVENING TIME.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE 5:00 AM AS THE OPENING TIME, RIGHT? FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT, I CERTAINLY WON'T SPEAK FOR THE, FOR THE SUBCOMMITTEE, BUT THAT, THAT DOESN'T BOTHER THE STAFF AS MUCH.

IT IS THE CLOSING TIME FOR THE EXACT REASON THAT YOU SPECIFIED, IF I'M GETTING UP AND I WANT TO WALK AT 5:00 AM, THAT'S MY MORNING WORKOUT ROUTINE BEFORE IT GETS TO BE 112, THAT THAT'S A PERFECTLY REASONABLE AND NOT AN UNCOMMON, UH, HOUR TO SEE IN THE PARKS.

OUR CONCERN IS FOR OBVIOUS REASONS TENDS TO BE THAT, THAT, UH, ON YOUR GENERAL PARK PROPERTIES AFTER 10:00 PM, UNLESS IT'S A SANCTIONED EVENT PROGRAM OR ATHLETIC EVENT, THERE'S JUST NOT A LOT OF ACTIVITY THAT GOES ON THAT, THAT WE WOULD CLASSIFY AS LEGITIMATE PARK USE.

WE ENDED UP CLEANING UP, UH, AS SOON AS WE'RE NOTIFIED OR DISCOVERED OURSELVES AFTER VANDALISM AND GRAFFITI AND THOSE THINGS THAT ARE, THAT ARE VERY PREVALENT IN A VARIETY OF PARKS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND I, I, LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE CLOSING TIME THAT I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT'S THE OPENING TIME, SO, OKAY.

ULTIMATE MORE.

DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS DEAD? I'LL LOOK AT THE, I LOOKED AT THE CHART THAT YOU PUT TOGETHER RELATED TO DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.

AND, UH, I DO SEE A LOT OF VARIANCE THERE.

UM, IT WAS INTERESTING THAT A COUNCIL MEMBER BROUGHT UP THE, ON A FIVE AWESOME FIVE 30 IS IN THERE AND SOME S FIVES.

UH, BUT I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY REAL PREFERENCE AS FAR AS THE OPENING AND CLOSING.

AND, UH, I GUESS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD HAVE IS THAT THE STAFF IS NOT GOING TO BE DEALING WITH IT THAT

[00:05:01]

LATE IN THE EVENING.

ANYWAY, WE WOULD NORMALLY WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T HAVE STAFF OUT 10 OR 11 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT ANYWAY.

SO IT'S ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS OF WHERE REALLY, UH, HOW ARE WE ENFORCING IT? SO GENERALLY BOTH FOR OUR STAFF, AS WELL AS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, IT IT'S COMPLAINT DRIVEN.

AND SO IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE A SITUATION WHERE, BECAUSE IT REALLY DOESN'T CHANGE.

IT GOES FROM MIDNIGHT TO 10, OUR PRACTICES DON'T NECESSARILY CHANGE, BUT IT DOES GIVE OUR STAFF, PARTICULARLY THE POLICE OFFICERS, A TOOL THAT SHOULD THEY GET A COMPLAINT, OR SHOULD THEY DRIVE THROUGH ON THEIR NORMAL, UH, UH, BEAT FOR AN OFFICER AT THAT HOUR.

AND THEY SEE SOMETHING GOING ON, THEY NOW HAVE A TOOL, YOU KNOW, AND I, AND I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE.

CITATIONS ARE NOT THE FIRST GO-TO MANEUVER.

WE'D SURE LOVE TO HAVE THANK YOU.

UM, VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE, IF THEY'VE BEEN PROPERLY INFORMED AND EDUCATED, AND THEN THOSE THAT WANT TO PRESS THE ISSUE, THEN, THEN THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, DO WHAT THEY DO BEST.

SO IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING OPERATIONALLY.

IT JUST ALLOWS US, THE NEIGHBORS TO, IF THEY SEE SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T BE GOING ON, IT'S A TOOL TO SAY, YOU KNOW, PARK'S CLOSED AND, AND YOU GOT TO LEAVE.

I'M SURE YOU'VE ALSO, UH, ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS WITH CHIEF AND, OR YOU'VE MADE THIS RECOMMENDATION OF 10 O'CLOCK.

IS THERE A, IS THERE A REALLY, THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 10 AND 11 OR FIVE AND SIX, AS IT RELATES TO HOW THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WILL BE VIEWING IT? I'LL LET CHIEF ANSWER THAT FROM, FROM OUR STANDPOINT AGAIN, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THAT I THINK AS TIME GOES FORWARD, UM, YOU KNOW, FOLKS THAT HAVE THINGS TO DO THE NEXT DAY, SUCH AS GO TO WORK, GO TO SCHOOL, UM, MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN THE PARK PAST THAT TIME.

SO FUNCTIONALLY I'LL CERTAINLY DEFER TO CHIEF BRIAN ON THAT.

WELL, CERTAINLY MORE NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY IS LATER IN THE NIGHT.

UH, I DIDN'T PULL STATS BETWEEN 10, 11, 11, AND 12.

I PULLED STATS BETWEEN 10 AND MIDNIGHT.

UH, WE DON'T SEE A LOT OF CALLS AND WE LOOKED AT AUDUBON PARK, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS, WE HAD 10 CALLS BETWEEN 10:00 PM AND MIDNIGHT BRADFIELD PARK.

WE HAD 20, UH, CENTRAL PARK.

WE HAD 25, SO WE DON'T SEE A LOT OF CALLS, BUT IT'S KIND OF LIKE ANDY SAID, UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT IF THERE'S A GROUP THERE CAUSING PROBLEMS, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TOOLS TO TAKE CARE OF THAT.

IT JUST BE A TOOL TO, TO CHASE THEM AWAY FROM THE PARK.

I DON'T ANTICIPATE OFFICERS CHECKING PARKS AT, AT 10 O'CLOCK AND CLEARING OUT PARKS.

THAT'S, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEIR FUNCTION WOULD BE.

IT JUST WOULD BE WHEN THE ISSUE CAME UP.

OKAY.

AND SO WITH THAT, UM, I'M KIND OF, OF THE OPINION THAT I DON'T REALLY DO THE PARK BECAUSE THE AREA THAT I LIVE IN ALMOST SIX O'CLOCK IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I'M WALKING THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT I'M ALWAYS LISTENING TO OUR CITIZENRY.

AND IT SOUNDS LIKE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO GIVE YOU AN HOUR ON ONE END AND MAYBE SO I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM AT ALL IF THE ROUTE THE COMMITTEE CHOSE.

UM, WELL, THANK YOU.

AND JUST, JUST FOR CLARITY, AS FAR AS, AS, UM, SOMETHING THAT CHIEF BRIAN HAS DISCUSSED WITH US WITH PREVIOUS, UM, ISSUES LIKE, UM, SOME OF THE RULES ON THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE ABOUT NOT SLEEPING ON THE SQUARE, UM, AND THAT GAVE THEM WHEN THERE WASN'T A SPECIFIC RULE AGAINST IT, AND IT'S A PUBLIC SPACE.

THEN THERE, THERE WAS NO ACTION THAT COULD BE TAKEN.

BUT IF YOU SAY YOU CAN'T BE MAKING A BED AND SLEEPING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SQUARE, THEN IF THERE IS A CALL AND THEY'VE GOT THAT PROBLEM, THIS JUST GIVES THEM AN ORDINANCE AVENUE TO SAY, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T BE HERE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY THAT WOULD, ALL THIS WOULDN'T BE PATROLLING THE PARKS.

THIS WOULD JUST BE GIVING YOU WAY TO, IF SOMEBODY CALLS IN AND THERE'S PEOPLE THERE AFTER THE CLOSED HOURS, YOU CAN JUST SAY, YOU CAN'T BE HERE.

THAT'S GREAT.

IT'D BE A WAY FOR US TO ADDRESS PROBLEMS. UM, NOT JUST PEOPLE WALKING DOGS IN THE PARKER NOW, OF COURSE, I CAN'T ENCOURAGE YOU TO BREAK THE LAW, BUT WE WOULD NOT BE PROACTIVE.

IT'D BE RESPONSE TO PROBLEMS. YEAH.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

AND, UM, AND I ACTUALLY AGREE, AND I, AND I HAD BEEN SPEAKING, I THINK, EARLIER TO, UH, KEVIN OR TO, OR TO COUNCILMAN MOORE, THE, UH, THE STARTING TIME.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH, WITH OPENING THE PARKS AT 5:00 AM.

UM, MY HUSBAND'S ONE OF THE 5:15 AM WALKERS AT CENTRAL PARK.

WE'RE NOT HA I MEAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

ARE WE HAVING ANY BAD THINGS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE EARLY HOURS OF THE MORNING IN GENERAL? MOST OF IT'S LATE AT NIGHT.

OKAY.

SO I WOULD BE FINE WITH US SAYING, UM, ANDY, UNLESS YOU HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT MAKING THE OPENING HOURS 5:00 AM, THAT'S A GREAT SUGGESTION.

OKAY.

AND THEN JUST, UM, HAVING THEM BE CLOSED

[00:10:01]

AT, AT 10 WITH THE EXCEPTIONS THAT WE'VE LISTED, WHICH IS THE, UM, SPORTS EVENTS THAT WE HAVE SPECIFICALLY SCHEDULED AND THE DIFFERENT HOURS FOR OUR PRESERVES.

UM, SO, AND DO YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE POSSIBILITY OF CHANGING SOME OF THE LANGUAGE FROM AFTER SUNSET TO DUSK, CAN YOU SPEAK TO ME ABOUT THE, UM, ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES? DO WE, WOULD IT BE BEST FOR US TO CHANGE THAT? IT CERTAINLY COULD BE PROBLEMATIC.

CAUSE DUSK, I THINK IS EASIER TO PROBABLY DETERMINE THE REASONABLE PERSON COULD DETERMINE DUSK VERSUS 30 MINUTES PAST SUNSET, BECAUSE IS THAT WHEN IT'S, IT GETS PRETTY SPECIFIC AND THEN IT BECOMES, IS THAT NAUTICAL, IS THAT ASTRONOMICAL? WAS THAT WITH GREENWICH? MEANTIME? I DON'T KNOW.

I'D HATE TO SEE IT, BUT I THINK AT LEAST A REASONABLE AN OFFICER OR A STAFF PERSON WOULD SAY, HEY, DUSK, IS THERE STILL LIGHT OUT? IT'S DARK.

IT'S TIME TO GO RATHER THAN CAUSE, CAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT DOES CHANGE BY TWO OR THREE MINUTES EACH DAY FORWARD AND BACKWARDS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

SO.

OKAY.

AND WHO'S GOING TO KEEP TRACK OF THAT.

YOU DON'T WANT TO, I'M SURE POLICE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T WANT TO.

SO, UM, COMMITTEE, I WOULD SUPPORT THE CHANGE IN LANGUAGE TO SAY I'M AT DUSK RATHER THAN 30 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET.

DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION? UM, WELL I REALLY DON'T LIKE AN EARLY CLOSING FOR THE PRESERVES SIMPLY BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE WORK IN THE, IN THE WINTER HOURS UNTIL THE SUN GOES DOWN DUSK.

UM, AND THEN THEY DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO GO AND VISIT THEIR PARKS THAT THEY PAY TO SUPPORT AND MAINTAIN.

SO I THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY MY ISSUE WITH HAVING AN EARLIER PART CLOSING TIME, ANY PARK IS THAT PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR TIME WORKING AND PAYING TAXES DON'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENJOY THEM AFTER WORK.

SO I'M, I'M, I'M REALLY, I, I KNOW THAT THE PRESERVE, UM, SOCIETY CAME TO YOU GUYS AND ASKED THAT THE HOURS BE LOWERED, WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL CLOSING TIME? SO THEIR SUGGESTION WAS DUSK.

AND I THINK WE HAD THE SAME DISCUSSION AMONGST OURSELVES AT PARK BOARD.

AND I DO BELIEVE THAT'S HOW WE ENDED UP WITH 30 MINUTES AFTER, BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S, I DON'T KNOW THAT ONE'S BETTER THAN THE OTHER.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF, YOU KNOW, SHOULD IT BE CHALLENGED? HOW DIFFICULT DOES THAT BECOME? UM, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD THINK THAT BECAUSE THE PRESERVES ARE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, NOT LIGHTED, NOT THE TRAILS, NOT THE PARKING LOTS, MAYBE THE EXITS, I THINK I'M NOT EVEN SURE THEY HAVE LIGHTS ON THE WAY OUT.

SO IT BECOMES A SITUATION THAT COMMON SENSE.

WE WOULD ALWAYS ADVISE FOLKS THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE HE WOULD PUT SIGNS UP ABOUT PARKING, YOUR CAR LOCK, TAKE HIDE KIND OF THING, YOU KNOW, USING PARKS, USING AN UNLIGHTED FACILITY WHEN IT'S TOTALLY DARK IS NOT ADVISABLE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S ILLEGAL UNTIL WE CHANGE.

IT JUST MEANS IT MIGHT NOT BE ADVISABLE.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO LEAVE AT 30 MINUTES PAST DUSK? IT SURE COULD TO ALLOW YOU TO ENJOY IT UNTIL IT'S TOTALLY DARK.

AND THEN IT GIVES YOU TIME TO LEAVE WAS, WAS THE ORIGINAL ARGUMENT.

HMM.

I THINK THAT, UH, QUITE OFTEN NOW HE'S FINE.

HE CAN TALK, OH NO, NO, MY MINE IS, I CAN WAIT.

IT'S REALLY, IT'S NOT THAT, NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

IT'S REALLY SOMETHING THAT THE CHIEF PROBABLY SHOULD COMMENT ON, BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO, I THINK THAT OFTEN WE MAKE OUR DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT'S THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN.

WHEREAS THE MATTER OF FACT, WE'RE LIVING DURING A PERIOD NOW WHERE WITH COVID AND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE, UH, I THINK THAT WE'RE SHOULD BE LOOKING MORE ALONG THE LINES OF HOW BEST TO HELP OUR CITIZENS STREET TO TRULY UTILIZE THE RECREATIONAL FACILITIES THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US.

AND SO, UH, AGAIN, UH, IF IN FACT A LONGER HOUR WOULD BE WHAT THE CITIZENRY IS, THEN I WOULD CERTAINLY, UH, SUPPORT THAT AGAIN, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WE DO WANT THEM, WE WANT THEM OUT WALKING, WE WANT THEM OUT W W WE WANT THEM TO HAVE GOOD, HEALTHY, AND WE HAVE SO MANY PARKS AND WE'RE PUTTING SO MUCH MONEY INTO THE TRAILS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SO, UH, THAT WOULD BE A CONSIDERATION THAT I WOULD CERTAINLY, UH, THINK ABOUT AS WE MAKE THE DECISION.

ALSO DOESN'T DON'T THEY HAVE AFTER DARK, UM, TOURS, THIS, UH, THE PRESERVATION TH THEY DO, AND THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE COULD MAKE A PROVISION.

YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE IF A SPORTING EVENT WAS GOING TO PLAY A 24 HOUR TOURNAMENT AT CARTER, THEY JUST EMAIL US.

WE GIVE WRITTEN PERMISSION, NO BIG DEAL, SAME THING THERE, WHEN, WHEN THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S SCHEDULED AND THAT'S AN EASY THING TO APPROVE, UM, AND MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT CRIMINALIZING ANYBODY FOR A PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE USE, RIGHT.

IT'S DO THEY PLAN ON HAVING TOURNAMENTS OF ANY KIND AT THE SKATE PARK? UH, SO WE WILL, UH, THAT HAS YET TO BE DETERMINED EXACTLY THE FORMAT AND HOW THAT'S GOING TO GO.

THOSE, THOSE

[00:15:01]

OBVIOUSLY ARE LIGHTED AS YOU'VE SEEN, UM, IN THE DESIGN.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, UNDER THIS PROPOSAL, THE PARK WOULD BE CLOSED AT 10, WHICH I WOULD STILL BE IN SUPPORTIVE, UH, FOR THAT PART.

HOWEVER, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER, UH, ATHLETIC EVENT, IT WOULD GET WRITTEN APPROVAL.

AND THEN IF WE FELT LIKE THE CROWD WAS ENOUGH OR DICTATED ENOUGH, IT MIGHT BE A SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT.

IT MIGHT JUST BE NOTIFYING, YOU KNOW, THE NPOS THAT, HEY, THIS IS GOING ON, DON'T BE, YOU KNOW, CAUGHT OFF GUARD THAT THIS IS HAPPENING.

SO IT'D BE AN EASY THING TO ACCOMMODATE.

OKAY.

SO IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE A, UH, SPECIAL EVENTS PERMIT THAT WOULD NEED TO BE ISSUED IN ORDER TO USE THE PARKS UNTIL MIDNIGHT, AS CORRECT FOR RIGHT.

FOR THE ONES THAT ARE ATHLETIC THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S ALREADY, THAT'S ITS MAIN USE OF THAT FACILITY RECODING WASN'T ON THAT LIST.

THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I QUESTIONED.

YEAH.

SO THAT ONE, THAT ONE IS, WOULD BE, UM, TREATED LIKE A NEIGHBORHOOD IN A COMMUNITY PARK AT 10:00 PM.

IT'S NOT PRIMARY, PRIMARILY ATHLETIC, BUT IT COULD BE ON OCCASION.

SO I WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T SEE US DOING MAYBE TWO TO SIX A YEAR POSSIBLY IN IT, MAYBE MORE, BUT IT WOULD ALL BE BY PERMISSION.

UM, WHEREAS IN SOFTBALL, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR THEM TO PLAY SIX NIGHTS A WEEK TILL TILL MIDNIGHT.

I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU.

UM, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF SKATEBOARDERS EVEN THOUGH THE PARK ISN'T OPEN THERE LATE AT NIGHT, AND THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING, BECAUSE I REALLY FEEL LIKE THAT'S GOING TO BE A BONE OF CONTENTION THERE.

UM, THEY'RE GOING TO BE THERE AFTER HOURS.

AND IF WE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE REALLY HARD TO POLICE THAT PARK IN PARTICULAR.

UM, AND UH, I MEAN, SKATEBOARDING IS IN THE OLYMPICS, IT'S AN ATHLETIC SPORT.

I FEEL LIKE THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN JUST AS MUCH, UM, LENIENCY AS BASEBALL AND SOCCER TO USE, TO UTILIZE THE PARK.

UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE RECODE AND ADDED TO THAT LIST.

SO TWO TO MIDNIGHT INSTEAD OF 10:00 PM.

CAUSE IT, YEAH, CAUSE IT, WHENEVER THE, WHATEVER THE TIME IS, THOSE LIGHTS ARE SCHEDULED TO GO OFF.

SO IF IT'S CLOSED AT 10, IT GOES OFF.

IF IT CLOSES AT MIDNIGHT, UM, I MEAN CENTRAL PARK IS WITHIN A NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL.

AND UH, AS ARE THE OTHER PART AND I, AND I'M, I'M, I'M THINKING ON MY FEET HERE FOR A SECOND, ONE THING TO POTENTIALLY CONSIDER IS THE HOMES THAT ARE RIGHT NEXT TO THE SKATE PARK.

UM, YES, THERE ARE HOMES ON TWO SIDES OF CENTRAL PARK.

THEY'RE A TAD BIT FURTHER AWAY.

UM, UM, I'M PRETTY SURE BASEBALL IS A LITTLE LOUDER THAN SKATEBOARDING.

SURE.

SO, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THE STIGMA THAT SKATEBOARDING HAS.

I GET IT.

UM, AND, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE ANYTHING HARDER FOR ANYONE.

I DO.

HOWEVER, WANT TO TREAT PEOPLE PER PARTICIPATING IN AN ATHLETIC EVENT, THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE.

AND I DON'T WANT TO, UH, SEGREGATE THEM FROM THE ATHLETIC COMMUNITY JUST BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF SPORT THAT THEY'RE PARTICIPATING IN.

YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T AGREE MORE IN THAT REGARD.

THEY'RE THE FOLKS THAT WE HAVE WORKED WITH FOR MANY YEARS AND THE FOLKS THAT I POLITELY ASKED TO, UH, RELOCATE AND WAIT UNTIL SEPTEMBER WHEN IT'S OR OCTOBER WHEN IT'S OPEN, THEY HAVE BEEN LOVELY.

THEY REALLY HAVE BEEN SO THAT THERE'S NO STIGMA ON THE STAFF POINT.

WE, IT IT'S SOME OF THE OTHERS THAT MAY ACCOMPANY THAT PARK BEING OPEN PAST THAT TIME.

THAT THAT WOULD CONCERN ME JUST LIKE ANY OTHER, REGARDLESS OF ATHLETIC OR NOT.

UM, SO WE COULD CERTAINLY MAYBE ASSESS AND START AT ONE HOUR AND COLLECT DATA AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

WE'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT.

CHIEF BRIAN AND I TALKED ABOUT TODAY, UH, HAVE A BETTER WAY FOR OUR STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE TYPES OF THINGS ARE NOT JUST CLEANED UP AND FIXED AND NOT REPORTED ADEQUATELY.

WE MAY HAVE WORK ORDERS, BUT MAYBE THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT TO THE CRIMINAL MISCHIEF FOR A REPORTED CRIME, GRAFFITI, WHATEVER.

SO I JUST FEEL LIKE IF YOU TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, THEN THAT GRAFFITI OR WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT HAPPENING AT SKATE PARK IS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAYS.

SO IF THERE'S LIGHTS, AT LEAST WE CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

WELL, AND JUST ONE, ONE POINT WITH THAT, IF, IF WE'RE COMPARING BASEBALL TO SKATE AND UNDERSTAND, MY SON WAS A SKATER, HE W HE DID TOURNAMENTS.

I SPENT A LOT OF MY LIFE AT SKATE PARKS, SCREAMING FOR MY SON WHO WON A LOT.

UM, THE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE, THE LITTLE LEAGUE GAMES, WHICH ARE ON A SPECIFIC SCHEDULE AND WE HAVE THAT SCHEDULE AND THAT'S WHEN THE PARK IS OPEN LATER AND JUST RANDOM FREE SKATE.

THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TOURNAMENTS, THAT THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING.

SO TOURNAMENTS, WE WOULD NEED TO LET THEM GO UNTIL THEY CAME TO THEIR CONCLUSION.

BUT I DON'T SEE JUST HAVING, I DON'T SEE EQUATING FREE SKATE TO SCHEDULED BASEBALL GAMES.

THOSE ARE NOT EQUIVALENT TO EACH OTHER.

OH, I'M

[00:20:01]

S I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS EVERY DAY THAT THOSE PARKS WERE OPEN UNTIL MIDNIGHT.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THERE WAS A CAVEAT FOR SPECIAL EVENTS.

NO.

SO TO CLARIFY, SO IN THOSE SPORTS THAT ARE, THAT ARE THOSE PARKS THAT ARE, THAT ARE 12 OR MIDNIGHT, THEY HAVE DEDICATED SPORTS FACILITIES, WHETHER IT'S BASEBALL, SOFTBALL, SOCCER, AND, OR ALL THE ABOVE.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THEY'RE THE LEAGUES THAT WE CONTRACT WITH, HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONTRACT SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

THEY GENERALLY DON'T, BUT WE DO REQUIRE THAT WE HAVE THEIR SCHEDULE.

WE KNOW WHEN THEY'RE THERE, MOST YOUTH ASSOCIATIONS DO NOT ALLOW A, A, A GAME TO START PAST 9:00 PM.

SO THEY'RE USUALLY DONE 10, 10 30, DEPENDING ON THE AGE DIVISION.

THE ONLY ONES THAT TEND TO GO LONGER, OR ADULT, WHICH IS ADULT SOFTBALL MOSTLY, AND WHETHER OR NOT WE GET INTO AN ADULT SOCCER, UH, TYPE LEAGUE OR SOMETHING THAT MAY OCCUR AT WINNERS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THE FUTURE.

SO, UM, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT.

IT'S THE PRIMARY USE OF THE PARK.

AND SO THEY CAN, THEY CAN DO THAT UNDER THAT CONTRACT, OR IF IT'S A RENTAL SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, RIGHT.

I'D STILL LIKE TO SEE THE RECODE AND IS ON THIS LIST.

AND IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS, WE CAN ALWAYS TAKE THEM OFF.

UM, I MEAN, I JUST, I WOULD RATHER, I WOULD RATHER TREAT THIS PARK AS AN ATHLETIC PARK THAN A PLACE WHERE, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I UNDERSTAND THE STIGMA AROUND SKATEBOARDING, AND I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THAT YOU GUYS WANT TO DO WITH THAT PARK.

I JUST REALLY WANT THESE PEOPLE TO BE TREATED EQUALLY.

AND I FEEL LIKE THEY'RE NOT MOST OF THE TIME.

SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THAT THAT PARK IS ADDED TO THIS LIST.

IF THERE ARE ANY ISSUES, WE CAN ALWAYS TAKE IT OFF.

IT'S.

UM, I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S SIMPLE AS IT IS.

IT IS THAT SIMPLE TO DO, OH, SOMETHING THAT'S SIMPLE FOR ME, MY BIGGER CONCERN IS ABOUT THIS DUSK OR THIS DUSK AND SUNSET ISSUE, BECAUSE DUSK IS A VERY SUBJECTIVE TERM.

AND I THOUGHT, AND, AND THE POLICE ARE GONNA HAVE A HARD TIME WITH IT.

AND, AND MY PROSECUTOR IS GOING TO HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME WITH PROSECUTING CASES.

AND SO I WOULD PREFER WE SET A TIME CERTAIN, AND IN SUNSET, WE CAN EVEN TIE IT TO THE TIME AND DATE.COM AND THAT'S WHAT ALL THE WEATHER APPS USE FOR SUNSET.

RIGHT.

SO IF YOU SAY SUNSET, AND WE CAN SAY, ACCORDING TO WHATEVER SCHEDULE WE WANT TO USE, WE CAN DO THAT IN THE COORDINATES ITSELF.

AND THERE, THEREFORE OUR OFFICERS CAN PULL UP ON THEIR PHONE IMMEDIATELY.

OKAY.

SUNSET WAS AT 8 48 TONIGHT.

SO THEREFORE THE PARK CLOSED AT 9 22.

IF MY MATH IS CORRECT, IT'S PROBABLY NOT NINE 18, ACTUALLY 37 TODAY.

YEAH.

YOU'RE SAYING SUNSET PLUS 30, I WOULD SAY SUNSET PLUS 30.

OKAY.

SO THAT WOULD, I BELIEVE THAT THAT WAS HOW THE PARKS BOARD ALSO CAME AROUND TO THAT SAME THING.

AND CHIEF, DID YOU HAVE SAME COMMENT? AND THEN PLEASE POST IT BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING SO MANY DIFFERENT TIMES AT SO MANY DIFFERENT PARKS.

IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO, TO KEEP UP WITH, I WOULD PREFER A SET TIME, BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THE, THE SUNSET, PLEASE POSTED, IF THEY WOULD QUIT CHANGING THE TIME ON US EVERY YEAR, THAT WOULD BE MUCH SIMPLER.

UM, WELL COMMITTEE, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK AS FAR AS THE PRACTICALITY AND, AND ANDY, YOU AS WELL, I GUESS, ASK YOU FIRST, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PRACTICALITY OF A SET TIME, WHICH WOULD BE WAY SIMPLER FOR EVERYBODY, BUT AT LEAST HALF THE YEAR, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE PRETTY DARN DARK IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PRESERVES AND, AND OTHER TIMES WE'D BE CLOSING WHEN IT'S STILL LIGHT.

SO THAT'S, I'M FINE.

I, I, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN, MY CONCERN IS HOW IS THAT HANDLED, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF OUR, OUR RESPONSIBILITIES, HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE HANDLING, UH, IN A, IN A COURT.

SO IF IT'S SIMPLER THAT WAY, THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO US.

I THINK ALL, ALL OF THESE HAVE BEEN GREAT SUGGESTIONS AND FEEDBACK, SO WE'LL ABLE TO CARRY THEM OUT.

NO PROBLEM.

DAVE, DO YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION IF WE WERE TO GO WITH A SET TIME, WHAT THAT SET TIME MIGHT BE? I WOULD MAKE IT CONSISTENT WITH THE OTHER PARKS, WHETHER THAT'S 10:00 PM OR YEAH, PROBABLY 10:00 PM OR FOR, OR THE PRESERVES ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

THEY HAVE A TRAIL SYSTEM THAT'S, THAT'S NOT EASILY ACCESSED BY THE POLICE, ESPECIALLY, UM, THERE ARE NO LIGHTS AND THERE'S MANY OF THE OTHER DEVELOPED WHAT I CALL DEVELOPED AND UNDEVELOPED PARKS ARE REALLY THE, WHAT WE WOULD DELINEATE.

THE TWO, I DEFINITELY RECOGNIZE IT CREATES AN ENFORCEMENT CHALLENGE THAT THOSE TWO PARKS CREATED THE MOST CONCERN FOR US, FOR ALL THE REASONS WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN EDUCATED ON THAT WAS BECOMING A REPUTATION THAT WE ABSOLUTELY DON'T WANT.

AND NOW I WILL SAY THAT THE, THE HOUR CHANGE IS NOT THE ONLY TOOL AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE.

IT'S NOT THE ONLY MAGIC SOLUTION PD HAS DONE A PHENOMENAL JOB OF ADDITIONAL PATROLS.

AND WE MADE USE OF THEIR CAMERA SYSTEM THERE THAT I THINK HAD A GREAT DEAL OF SUCCESS.

IT'S NOT THERE ALL THE TIME.

[00:25:01]

SO I PUT IN THE BUDGET TO HAVE SOME THAT WILL PUT A PARKS AND REC STICKER ON INSTEAD OF POLICE, BUT IT WAS EFFECTIVE AND KUDOS TO THEM FOR, FOR WORKING WITH US ON IT.

SO AGAIN, JUST ANOTHER TOOL, IT'S ONE OF THOSE PARKS THAT CONCERNS ME, THAT WE ALLOW IT TO BE ENCOURAGED TO USE IT, KNOWING THAT THERE'S NO LIGHTS AND IT'S A, IT'S A DARK, DARK FACILITY AFTER, AFTER SUNSET.

SO, BUT THAT COULD BE A RABBIT TRAIL THAT GOES ON FOR DAYS.

SO IF WE, SO 10 IS WELL AND TRULY DARK IN THE SUMMER, CORRECT.

RIGHT.

SO IF WE SAID NINE, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD SOLVE ANY OF THE PROBLEMS, CHIEF, THE PROBLEMS WE'VE BEEN HAVING OUT THERE AT THE PRESERVES.

UM, DO YOU HAVE, IN YOUR MIND THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE OUT THERE ARE AS BIG A PROBLEMS DURING THE DAY AS THEY ARE DURING THE NIGHT.

OKAY.

UM, IT IS ALL TIMES OF THE DAY, ALL TIMES OF THE NIGHT, BECAUSE IT'S SECLUDED BECAUSE IT'S, AND THE ENFORCEMENT IS, IS JUST A BIG A PROBLEM DURING THE DAY, AS IT IS AT NIGHT.

WHAT A 9:00 PM CLOSING BE OF ANY USE TO YOU FROM AN ENFORCEMENT.

I MEAN, WOULD THAT BE BETTER THAN A 10, WOULD THAT MAKE IT IN ANY WAY EASIER FOR YOU TO PATROL AND, UH, IT WOULD HELP US AFTER NINE O'CLOCK? YES.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, COMMITTEE, I GUESS MY, MY THOUGHT ON THIS WOULD BE WITH THE PRESERVES INSTEAD OF GOING WITH SOMETHING THAT OUR CITY ATTORNEY IS FLAGGED IS PROBLEMATIC.

UM, AND THAT OUR POLICE FORCE HAVING TO GO TO A WEBSITE.

SEE, OKAY, WHAT TIME EXACTLY WAS I, I JUST, I HAVE A HARD TIME IMPOSING THAT ON THEM.

UM, WHAT, WHAT THINK YOU ABOUT US SAYING WITH THE, THE TWO PRESERVES THAT WE MAKE IT A 9:00 PM CLOSING TIME, UM, AMENABLE TO THAT? UM, WHAT TIME DID THE SOCIETY FOR THE PRESERVATION FOR SPRING CREEK? UM, DID THEY GIVE A SPECIFIC TIME DUSK TILL DAWN? OH YEAH.

YOU SAID THAT GIVES ME, I GUESS, BECAUSE IT WASN'T A NUMBER.

IT DIDN'T STICK WITH ME, WHICH IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE ISSUE.

AND WE KNEW IT WAS PROBLEMATIC, BUT AT LEAST THEIR SENTIMENT, AND IT WAS A VERY PASSIONATE PLEA THAT I FELT LIKE WE NEEDED TO TRY TO BE RESPONSIVE TO.

UM, BUT AGAIN, IT'S, UH, IT'S, UH, A GROUP OF SOLUTIONS, NOT ONE MAGIC SOLUTION.

SO FROM OUR STANDPOINT, I WOULD COMPLETELY DEFER TO THE ENFORCEMENT SIDE OF THESE THINGS.

THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO BE AT ODDS THAT WE WANT TO BE IN SYNC WITH.

SO IF IT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND EMPLOYING ALL THE OTHER TOOLS HELPS US GET THERE, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE'LL KEEP DOING.

WELL, THEN I WOULD SAY EIGHT FOR THE PRESERVES ONLY.

I MEAN, THAT'S CLOSE ENOUGH TO DESK IN THE SUMMERTIME.

IT'S WITHIN 45 MINUTES OR SO.

RIGHT.

IT STARTS SPLITTING THE YEAR.

UM, SO, SO NINE AND EVEN 10 FEELS LIKE IT'S ALL ENCOMPASSING YOUR, YOUR, YOUR DARKEST.

I MEAN, YOUR, YOUR BRIGHTEST TIME OF THE YEAR IS GOING TO BE NEXT WEEK, WHICH WOULD BE NINE SOMETHING.

RIGHT? SO, UM, WHAT OUR CITY ATTORNEY GOOGLED THAT, BUT I DIDN'T CHECK IT.

WE, WE CAN CERTAINLY WORK WITH WHATEVER.

I FEEL LIKE TWO SIDES OF THE ISSUE, ENFORCEABILITY PROSECUTOR ABILITY AND ADDRESSING IT.

MAYBE MAYBE NINE IS JUST FINE.

I DON'T KNOW.

PART OF THE YEAR, IT'S STILL PLENTY BLOCK BRIGHT AT EIGHT.

THAT WAS MY ONLY CONCERN.

BUT, UM, COUNCILMAN MOORE, I'M HEARING THREE KIND OF CATEGORIES HERE, AND I WAS PRETTY GOOD WITH THE PRESERVES NINE, 10 PRIMARILY BECAUSE IT'S 8 30, 9 O'CLOCK ANYMORE RIGHT NOW, BEFORE IT'S REALLY DARK.

AND SO, UM, AGAIN, I WANT TO GIVE THEM THE AVAILABILITY.

I DON'T, I DO WANT TO STAY AWAY FROM BELL, THE SUBJECTIVE, WE ARE, OUR POLICE OFFICERS ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEM WITHOUT HAVING TO JUSTIFY WHAT'S DONE WHAT'S DUSK.

AND SO I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO AT LEAST DEAL WITH TIMES, BUT THE CATEGORIES THAT I'M HEARING PRESENTLY AND BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS MARGARET HAS STATED, IF IN FACT IF AN ATHLETIC FACILITY, THEN LET'S MAKE SURE OUR ATHLETIC JUST TO MAKE SURE ALL OF THOSE ARE THE SAME, IF IT'S TO PRESERVE, MAKE SURE IT'S THE SAME.

AND THEN I HEARD SOMETHING THERE.

WE'VE GOT SOME OTHER, UH, THAT THIRD CATEGORY WHERE THEY NEED TO CLOSE IT AND LET'S MAKE SURE THAT THOSE THREE CATEGORIES WHERE WE'RE CONSISTENT WITH THEM.

AND LET'S DO PUT TIMES ON THEM.

10 O'CLOCK WAS OKAY WITH ME AS FAR AS, UH, THE PRESERVE WAS CONCERNED.

UH, YEAH, IT IS DARK, BUT THAT'S GOING TO GIVE THEM A FULL AVAILABILITY

[00:30:01]

OF USE OF THE PARK.

THE 12 O'CLOCK WAS OKAY WITH ME, AS FAR AS YOUR ATHLETICS, AS SOFTBALL AND SKATING AND THINGS.

I'M OKAY THERE.

BECAUSE AGAIN, WE'RE ONLY REALLY GOING TO REALLY GO AND ENFORCE SOMETHING WHEN, WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM, IF, IF, IF THERE'S A COMPLAINT OR WHATEVER WE'RE GOING TO DO.

AND THEN THE OTHER THING IS WE HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO ASSESS.

IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT, WE'D GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND WE MAKE THE CHANGE.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I AM PRESENT.

ANDY, JUST FOR, FOR CLARITY WITH THE ATHLETIC COMPLEXES, UM, CENTRAL PARK BASEBALL BEING ON THIS LIST DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE ENTIRE CENTRAL PARK WILL BE OPEN TILL MIDNIGHT.

IS THAT CORRECT? OR NO, IT IS THE ENTIRE PARK.

IT, IT WOULD BE VERY PROBLEMATIC.

I THINK THE TRY TO DIVIDE IT.

YEP.

OKAY.

YEP.

ALL RIGHT.

UM, THEN IN THAT CASE WITH, UH, WITH RICK ODIN, HAVING A LARGE ATHLETIC FACILITY, I WOULD AGREE THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE ON THIS LIST AND CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN WE COME TO IT.

THAT'S GREAT.

OKAY.

SO BRINGING THIS HOME, SO WE'RE NOT HERE UNTIL WE'RE ALL MY AGE, UM, GOING DOWN THE, THE LIST, IF WE, UM, COMMITTEE, ARE WE AGREED, UM, WITH THE GOING TO YOUR PAPER HERE, SECTION 25, 15 PARK HOURS, UM, THE SECTION A, ARE WE GOOD WITH 5:00 AM UNTIL 10:00 PM WITH SECTION A, CAN WE DO 11? IS THAT TOO LATE? DON'T WANT TO DO 11.

I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S UP TO COMMITTEE VOTE.

SO THESE, THESE ARE BASICALLY REFERRING TO UNLIT PARKS, POCKET PARKS, ESPECIALLY IN NEIGHBORHOODS, WHAT THEY ARE, NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS, UM, AND CAN BE, LET ME REFRESH MY MEMORY WHEN WE, YEAH.

SO, SO THESE THAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT HERE ARE, CAN BE MULTIPLE CATEGORIES.

SOME OF THOSE ARE NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS, SOME OF THOSE ARE COMMUNITY, BUT BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT ATHLETIC FACILITIES, THEY FALL INTO THIS.

SO ANY OTHER CATEGORY REGARDLESS IS, IS GONNA FALL INTO THAT 10:00 PM.

SO THE EXCEPTIONS THEN BECOME ATHLETIC FACILITIES AND THE TWO PRESERVES, EVERYTHING ELSE, REGARDLESS OF CATEGORY IS GOING TO BE 10:00 PM.

I MEAN, ON A SATURDAY NIGHT THERE THAT'S, THAT'S EARLY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, IF THEY'RE HAVING A FAMILY FUNCTION AND USING THE GRILLS OUT THERE.

AND I MEAN THAT, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT PEOPLE ARE DOING SOMETHING BAD IF THEY'RE THERE LATE AT NIGHT AT A PARK.

WELL, NAUGHTY, WELL, I'M NOT 11 COUNCIL.

WELL, WE WENT ROUND THIS AND I THOUGHT WE ALL LANDED ON SAYING THAT AFTER THE CHIEF'S COMMENTS, I THOUGHT WE ALL SAID, WE'RE OKAY WITH 10.

SO, SORRY, I'M REWINDING AGAIN.

IF WE'RE GOING TO RE ARGUE IT, THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CHIEF'S COMMENTS WERE WHEN ASKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 10 AND 11, WAS THAT THE LATER IT GETS IN THE NIGHT, THE MORE PROBLEMS THERE ARE, AND HIS PREFERENCE, I BELIEVE ENDED UP BEING 10.

UM, I'M GOOD WITH EITHER GOOD WITH EITHER, OKAY, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO MAKE OR BREAK US.

RIGHT.

SO I'M GOOD WITH WHATEVER THE COMMITTEE DECISION, RIGHT.

SO, UM, LET ME JUST PUT THIS OUT HERE COMMITTEE, ARE YOU HAPPIER WITH FOUR? AND AGAIN, THIS IS NOT THE ATHLETIC PRESERVE, THE ATHLETIC FACILITIES.

THIS IS NOT THE TWO PRESERVES.

ARE YOU HAPPIER WITH HAVING THE, UM, THE REST OF THE PARKS BE OPEN AGAIN? LET'S START WITH 5:00 AM.

HOW MANY IN FAVOR OF 5:00 AM OPENING WITH PARKS? OKAY.

SO WE GOT THAT AND CLOSING TIME VERSUS 11, 10 VERSUS 11.

SO LET'S DO TEN FIRST, SINCE THAT WAS FIRST DISCUSSED, WHO IS IN FAVOR OF CLOSING AT 10.

AND AGAIN, THAT WAS THE RECOMMENDATION FROM PARKS.

UM, CAN I, IF CONGRESS DISCUSSION ANDY JEFF, IS THAT YOUR PREFERENCE? 10 O'CLOCK AND THE CLOCK OR 11 O'CLOCK.

I HONESTLY DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE.

IT LATER WE GET THE MORE ISSUES WE'D GET.

UM, CERTAINLY THERE'S PEOPLE BETWEEN 10 AND 11 ENJOYING THE PARK.

AND CERTAINLY WE HAVE KIDS HANGING OUT CAUSING PROBLEMS BETWEEN 10 AND 11.

SO, UM, I DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.

ANDY MAY HAVE A PREFERENCE FROM THE PARKS STANDPOINT.

SO I WOULD, I WOULD ECHO AT 10, 10:00 PM IS MY PREFERENCE.

[00:35:02]

I WOULD, AND I'M GOING TO, I'M GOING TO PROBABLY STRADDLE THE FENCE FOR A MINUTE AND BE BETTER THAN I JUST DID.

I'M GOING TO GIVE A REASON.

SO, AND, AND AGAIN, I FEEL THAT THIS, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DIALOGUE BECAUSE YES, WE ABSOLUTELY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, THAT THE TAXPAYERS ARE ABLE TO ENJOY THEIR ASSETS AND THE RESOURCES THAT THEY'RE PAYING FOR.

AND THAT ARE BEING MAINTAINED.

HAVING SAID THAT BEING THE STEWARDS OF THOSE RESOURCES AND OUR EXPERIENCE IS BEN, ALBEIT MAYBE AFTER 27 YEARS, YOU GET NOT CYNICAL YET, BUT YOU GET REALITY.

REALITY REPEATS ITSELF TO THE POINT WHERE WHEN WE, OUR STAFF IS, IS SPENDING AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF THEIR TIME CLEANING UP.

OUR EXPERIENCE TENDS TO BE THAT AS THINGS PROGRESS PAST 10:00 PM, THE USE BECOMES LESS AND LESS CONSISTENT WITH LEGITIMATE PARK USE.

THAT SOUNDED LITIGIOUS.

DIDN'T IT READY FOR A LONG TIRING? IT'S VERY FAIR.

THAT'S VERY WELL SAID.

AND THAT'S LIKE, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IT.

IF WE TRY ALL THIS AND WE FIND IT'S CHAFING AND RESTRICTIVE, UM, THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT ANY, ANYTHING WE DO THAT SET IN STONE AND THAT CAN'T BE LATER REVISITED AND CORRECTED.

SO, UM, SO WE'VE GOT 5:00 AM.

IT'S A UNANIMOUS APPROVAL.

UM, LET'S START WITH CLOSING AT 10:00 PM WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ATHLETIC FACILITIES AND THE TWO PRESERVES I'M IN FAVOR OF 10.

OKAY.

WELL THEN THERE WE GO.

WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THIS A TRY AND WE'LL ALSO PRESENT TO COUNCIL AND SEE HOW THE WHOLE BODY FEELS.

ALL RIGHT.

TO RECAP.

THE PRESERVE WAS 5 82.

WELL, THAT'S NEXT? I'M SORRY.

I'M SORRY.

UH, SO THAT'S, UH, SECTION D THE BELOW LISTED PARK SHALL BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

AND I THINK WE WANT TO MAKE THIS FIVE, EIGHT FOR CONSISTENCY.

IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECTLY? OKAY.

SO WE'RE SAYING 5:00 AM LIKE THE OTHER PARKS UNTIL, AND INSTEAD OF 30 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET, UM, LET'S START, WE'LL START WITH, UH, COUNCIL, LADY LUCKS RECOMMENDATION OF EIGHT, AND THEN WE'LL GO TO NINE AND THEN WE PUT IT DOWN AND WE'LL SEE WHICH ONE? I THINK WE CAN SKIP THE EIGHT.

OKAY.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE ELSE'S.

YEAH.

OKAY.

SO LET'S JUST START WITH 9:00 PM.

WHO ON THE COMMITTEE WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF CLOSING THE PRESERVES AT 9:00 PM.

5:00 AM TO 9:00 PM RELATING ON, YOU KNOW, OKAY.

UM, WHO WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF WAITING TILL 10:00 PM? I MEAN, I'M FINE WITH THAT TIME TOO.

CAN I VOTE TWICE? NOT USUALLY, BUT WHY NOT? UM, OKAY.

EITHER TIME.

THAT'S YEAH.

AND THAT'S FINE.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, THIS IS ALSO ADJUSTABLE LESS, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE 10, UM, LIKE CONSISTENT WITH THE OTHER PARKS.

WE'LL DO THAT.

AND JUST AGAIN, COME BACK AND REVISIT IF IT COMES TO THAT, ANDY, AM I GIVING YOU WHAT YOU NEED? THANK YOU SO MUCH.

OKAY.

AND FINALLY, SECTION 25, 15 SECTION E, WE ARE SAYING, ADD RICK ODIN TO THE ATHLETIC COMPLEX LIST.

RIGHT.

GOT IT.

AND, UM, WHICH WOULD SAY THEIR ATHLETIC COMPLEXES AND THEIR RESPECTIVE PARKING LOTS SHALL BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

WE'RE STAYING 5:00 AM.

5:00 AM, COUNCILMAN MOORE.

OKAY.

AND NOW IN THOSE CASES, THOSE WOULD BE TILL MIDNIGHT.

ALL GOOD.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU, CHIEF.

ALL RIGHT.

NOW THIS NEXT ONE IS GOING TO BE THE OPENING SHOT.

WE ARE NOT, UM, HAVING, UH, ANY KIND OF A CHANCE OF GETTING TO A CONCLUSION ON THIS.

UM, MR. ENGLAND, ARE YOU GOING TO BE THE ONE SPEAKING TO THIS? IS SOMEBODY ELSE HERE TO SPEAK TO THIS? UM, HMM.

OKAY.

UH, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COME TAKE A SEAT AT THE MICROPHONES.

SO, UM, ITEM THREE IS DISCUSSED RENTAL PROPERTY PROGRAMS AND SHORT-TERM RENTAL POLICY.

THANK YOU, SIR.

AND COMMITTEE, JUST SO YOU'LL KNOW, THE, THESE ARE DISCUSSING TWO EXISTING POLICIES THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, THE, THE NEED FOR AMENDMENTS.

UM, SO RENTAL PROPERTY PROGRAMS, UM, YOU KNOW, GARLAND HAS A RENTAL REGISTRATION PROGRAM.

UM, IT'S, IT'S FAIRLY BENIGN.

IT'S ONE THAT A LOT OF OTHER CITIES HAVE ACTUALLY, UM, IMITATED BECAUSE THIS STARTED OUT YEARS AGO AS BEING A VERY RIGID AND FAIRLY ABUSIVE PROGRAM.

AND IT GOT

[00:40:01]

ROLLED BACK INTO A FAIRLY USER-FRIENDLY, UM, PROGRAM THAT'S BEEN OPERATING.

HOWEVER, UM, WE HAVE FOUND SOME HOLES IN THIS PROGRAM AND THESE, SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE THINGS THAT I POINTED OUT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT SOME IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE SEEN THEM IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CITY.

ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS WITH OUR RENTAL REGISTRATION.

UM, THERE ARE SOME HOUSES, UM, WHERE THE OWNER CLAIMS TO BE RENTING TO OWN CLAIMS, TO BE SELLING THE HOUSE.

AND THEY'RE FOR DODGING OUR REGISTRATION AND INSPECTION, UM, REQUIREMENTS ONLY.

THIS IS A SCAM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EVER THAT THE TITLE NEVER CHANGES HANDS.

OKAY.

AND WE DON'T HAVE, THAT'S AN OPEN DOOR IN OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE.

I, I BELIEVE I'M LOOKING AT MR. ENGLAND.

WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO CATCH THAT RIGHT NOW.

I BELIEVE.

UM, WE DO NOT.

UM, BUT WE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE FIXED.

UM, WHEN YOU CAN TIE THAT TO, UM, THE, THE DEED AND DEED OF TRUST WHO'S EVER ON THE NAME OF THE DEED THAT'S BEEN, UM, FILED WITH THE COUNTY RECORDED WITH THE COUNTY.

AND IF SOMEONE ELSE IS LIVING IN THAT PROPERTY, UM, AND THEIR NAME DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE DEED, THEN IT'S BEEN FILED WITH THE COUNTY.

THEN, UM, WE CAN CONSIDER, WE CAN, WE CAN BRING THAT INTO A RENTAL PROPERTY DEFINITION.

OKAY.

UM, AND THERE, THERE ARE A COUPLE OTHER THINGS THAT DID YOU WANT TO GO THE, THE SPECIFICS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP, ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO THAT? NO, MA'AM OKAY.

UM, ALL RIGHT.

AND WAS SHORT-TERM RENTAL PROCESS, UH, POLICY, THIS, THIS IS AIRBNB TYPE THINGS, AND WE PASSED THE POLICY FOR THIS SEVERAL YEARS, TWO YEARS AGO, THREE YEARS AGO.

UM, AND IT, IT, AGAIN, IT WAS A VERY LIGHT TOUCH BECAUSE THE STATE OF TEXAS IS IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING IT, UM, WELL, THEY'RE ANGLING MORE AND MORE TOWARD NOT ALLOWING US TO DO ANY REGULATIONS ON SHORT TERM RENTALS.

UM, RIGHT NOW WE CAN DO LIGHT ONES.

SO WHAT WE DID, UM, THE ORDINANCE THAT WE PASSED FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS WAS ESSENTIALLY TO, UM, IT, IT WENT UNDER THE HOTEL MOTEL CATEGORY.

THIS HAS CAUSED US SOME PROBLEMS, TWO AREAS.

UM, WE HAVE SEVERAL, UH, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, ONE OF THEM IN MY DISTRICT, IN A HOA WHERE YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD HAVE MORE CONTROL, BUT THEY DON'T.

UM, AND THEY ARE OPENLY ADVERTISING A FOUR BEDROOM, TWO BATH HOUSE AS BEING AVAILABLE FOR AT LEAST 20 PEOPLE.

CONTRACTORS ARE ALL COMING IN, THEY'RE ALL LIVING THERE.

AND BECAUSE IT'S UNDER HOTEL MOTEL, WE DON'T HAVE ANY OCCUPANCY LIMITS.

AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY, UM, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO.

PARKING MARSHALS CAN GO OUT THERE IF PEOPLE ARE ILLEGALLY PARKED, BUT THIS IS, UH, THIS IS CAUSING CRIES OF DISTRESS IN A NUMBER OF NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND THEY'RE MOSTLY NICE NEIGHBORHOODS.

UM, BUT THESE HOUSES ARE BEING USED, UH, FOR, UM, MASS HOUSING INAPPROPRIATELY.

I FEEL FOR THAT.

AND WE HAVE ALSO DISCOVERED IN SEVERAL CASES, WHEN YOU LOOK THEM UP ON D CAD THAT, UM, THESE HOUSES, THESE SHORT-TERM RENTAL HOMES ARE ACTUALLY, UM, THE OWNERS HAVE THEM LISTED FOR HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION AS THOUGH THEY ARE LIVING THERE, INSTEAD OF IT BEING, UH, UM, CONSIDERED A, UH, A BUSINESS PROPERTY.

AND THAT WAS ONE THING.

UM, MR. AND CAN YOU TAKE A MOMENT AND JUST ADDRESS THAT, THE CATEGORY THAT HOMES, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES BEING USED FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS, UM, WHAT ARE THE LEGALITIES, AS FAR AS THE STATE GOES WITH US, TRYING TO CLASSIFY THEM AS PLACES OF BUSINESS? I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO DO THAT TO REGULATE THEM.

WE WOULDN'T HAVE OUR REGULATION.

WOULDN'T DEPEND ON THE CLASSIFICATION.

OKAY.

UM, CURRENTLY WE HAVE FOUR OR FIVE LAWSUITS THAT ARE ACTIVE IN TEXAS, AMONGST SEVERAL CITIES, INCLUDING AUSTIN, GRAPEVINE, UM, IRVING, AND THERE'S ONE OTHER NUMBER, BUT MAYBE FORT WORTH, UH, AND THE ISSUES THERE ARE AND WHERE THE COURTS HAVE KIND OF SORTED OUT THE CASES IS THAT CITIES, IT APPEARS TO THIS POINT CAN REGULATE STR SHORT-TERM RENTALS, BUT THEY CANNOT DO A DIRECT BAND ON THEM.

WE HAVE A CASE, THE OLDEST CASE IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA, AS THE CASE OUT OF AUSTIN, AND JUST ACTUALLY HAD TO DEAL WITH THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, BUT IT APPLIED TO CITIES AS WELL, JUST IN TERMS OF WHERE THE SUPREME COURT, UM, WHERE THEY STOOD ON PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE RIGHT TO LEASE YOUR PROPERTY THAT YOU OWN.

THE SUPREME COURT CONSIDERS THAT A FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT IN TEXAS, THAT, THAT IF YOU OWN PROPERTY, YOU HAVE A RIGHT

[00:45:01]

TO LEASE IT.

NOW WHAT THE COURT DIDN'T ADDRESS IS HOW MUCH TO WHAT EXTENT CAN A CITY OR A LOCAL GOVERNMENT REGULATE, UH, SHORT TERM LEASES, SHORT TERM RENTALS, WHEN YOU DO CHOOSE TO LEASE YOUR PROPERTY.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE, AT LEAST THE APPELLATE COURTS, THE INTERMEDIATE COURTS ARE SORTING OUT TO SAY, OKAY, CITIES CAN USE REASONABLE REGULATIONS.

WE'RE NOT QUITE CERTAIN WHERE THAT IS YET, BUT WE KNOW THAT WE CAN REGULATE AND CITIES ARE CHOOSING TO DO THAT MORE AND MORE.

YOU JUST CAN'T HAVE AN OUTRIGHT BAN ON THEM.

SO WHAT I DUSTED OFF WAS A OLD ORDINANCE THAT I DRAFTED PROBABLY ORIGINALLY IN 20 15, 20 16, AND IT GOT BROUGHT BACK IN 2017, AND THEN IT GOT BROUGHT BACK AGAIN IN 2019.

SO I BRING IT TO YOU ONCE AGAIN, IN 2022.

UM, UM, AND YOU'LL SEE WITH SOME MINOR CHANGES BASED ON WHAT SOME COURTS HAVE SAID, BUT I JUST DID THAT FOR Y'ALL TO TAKE HOME AND LOOK AT IT BECAUSE IN THAT DRAFT ORDINANCE, YOU'LL SEE SEVERAL CATEGORIES, SEVERAL WAYS IN WHICH WE COULD REGULATE, CONSIDERED A MENU.

YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHICH WAYS YOU WANT TO REGULATE THESE SHORT TERM RENTALS.

AND THERE ARE SEVERAL OPTIONS IN THERE.

AND, AND QUITE FRANKLY, PREVIOUS COUNCILS, UM, HAVEN'T HAD THE APPETITE TO DO IT.

THEY RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM, BUT THEY HAVEN'T HAD THE TIME TO ACTUALLY, UH, ADOPT THE REGULATIONS AND FOR GOOD REASONS.

AND I'M NOT BEING CRITICAL OR PREVIOUS COUNCILS AT ALL, AS FAR AS, UM, THE CLASSIFICATION OF THE EAVES.

IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER UNDER, UNDER CURRENT TEXAS LAW, WHETHER WE DECIDE TO CLASSIFY THEM AS A BUSINESS OR A RESIDENTIAL USE, THE SUPREME COURT INDICATES THAT THESE ARE SO CLOSE TO RESIDENTIAL USES THAT YOU CAN'T ZONE THEM OUT AS COMMERCIAL USES.

UM, THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME INDICATION THERE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS.

I THINK WE CAN REGULATE THEM AS LONG AS WE AREN'T TRYING TO OUTRIGHT BAN THEM.

OKAY.

COUNCILMAN MOORE, AS A LATE CALMER TO THIS CONVERSATION.

UM, THE QUESTION THAT COMES TO MIND FOR ME IS, UH, AND I'M, I'M SURE THAT QUIETER, WE WANT TO REGULATE IT NOW.

OF COURSE, IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE NEIGHBORS, OF COURSE DON'T WANT ALL THAT TRAFFIC AND PEOPLE LIVING OR COMING IN THAT THEY DON'T KNOW.

BUT, UM, I GUESS WHAT I'M FINDING IS, AS PEOPLE ARE GETTING OLDER, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WITH, UH, LARGE HOMES, MATTER OF FACT, EASTERN HILLS JUST HAD ONE OF THESE.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW IT, BUT EASTERN HILLS JUST HAD A, A BNB WHERE THERE WAS A WEDDING.

AND, UH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT, HONESTLY, BUT BACK TO WHAT, AS I'M GETTING OLDER, IT SEEMS THAT THEY ARE SUPPLEMENTING INCOME.

THEY'RE GOING INTO BUSINESS OR DOING DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS IN ORDER TO, UH, UTILIZE OFF.

NOW, THEY'RE HOME ALONE.

THEY'RE NOT BURIED ANYMORE.

UH, AND SO DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, WHEN THEY HAVE SOMEONE TO COME IN AND LEASE THE PROPERTY OUT, THEY GO AND DO WHATEVER THEY NEED TO DO, OR THEY JUST DON'T LIVE THERE AT ALL.

AND SO I GUESS I'M, I'M LOOKING NOW FOR TELL ME WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE WITH IT FIRST, AND THEN WE CAN, WE CAN KIND OF, UH, FOR, FOR ME ANYWAY, JUST A HISTORY ON WHY THAT USAGE I'VE, I'VE ASKED THE CHIEF TO STAY FOR THIS, FOR THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE, WHAT I'VE SEEN ANECDOTALLY, AND NOT AS A PRACTITIONER OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHAT I'VE SEEN IS THAT BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SOME CHANGES IN THE MARKET AND SOME CHANGES WITH BOTH AIRBNB AND WITH, UM, VRVO WHERE THEY'RE NO LONGER ALLOWING PARTIES.

I THINK IT'S HAD SOME IMPACT, UM, WITH OUR POLICE CALLS.

YEAH.

HISTORICALLY, IF YOU WERE TO ASK THAT QUESTION, IT WAS A HUGE PROBLEM IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND IT WAS ESPECIALLY AT HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION TIME, IMAGINE HAVING A HIGH SCHOOL PARTY NEXT TO YOUR HOUSE EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

AND WE HAD THAT, UH, AND SEVERAL NEIGHBORHOODS, THE NEIGHBORHOODS WERE JUST IN AN UPROAR AND IT WAS GETTING OUT OF CONTROL.

I MEAN, IT WAS TO THE POINT I CAME TO THE CITY ATTORNEYS AND LIKE, I NEED AN ORDINANCE.

I NEED SOMETHING TO CHANGE.

UM, BUT LATELY SOMETHING HAS CHANGED AND I THINK SOMETHING HAS CHANGED WITH BOTH COMPANIES.

WE ARE NOT SEEING THE BIG PARTIES THAT WE USED TO SEE.

NOW THERE ARE ONE-OFFS, THERE ARE INCIDENTS THAT OCCUR, BUT THE HOUSES THAT HAVE PARTY AFTER PARTY, AFTER PARTY, SOMETHING HAS CHANGED WITH THE AIRBNB AND WITH, UM, UH, BRBO THAT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWING THAT, UH, SO THEY'RE CLAMPING DOWN.

SO WE STILL SEE ISSUES JUST, AND THERE'S ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY CAN COME BACK.

BUT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WE WERE, WE WERE LOOKING FOR HELP.

[00:50:01]

NO, I GUESS I'M, I'M RAISING THAT BECAUSE, UH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PROBABLY FINE THAT I TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

I TRY TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

AND I ASKED THE QUESTION, OFTENTIMES WHEN THESE SITUATIONS COME, YOU KNOW, UH, WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT BECAUSE IF WE START THERE, THAT GIVES ME THE HISTORY, IT GIVES ME.

AND THEN I CAN KIND OF, WHEN I'M TALKING TO A CONSTITUENT, I CAN SAY, THIS IS PROBLEM WITH IT FOR THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION.

AND YOU DIDN'T GET ANY CALLS ABOUT THAT WEDDING LAST WEEKEND.

DID YOU? I DON'T KNOW, PROBABLY NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT YET, BUT, UH, FROM, BASED ON WHAT I SAW THERE WAS, UM, 30, 40 PEOPLE THERE, BUT IT WAS JUST A RECEPTION SITUATION WHERE THEY, THEY USED THE HOME THERE IN EASTERN HILLS.

AND, BUT NOW YOU CAN ALSO HAVE THE SITUATION, AS YOU'VE JUST STATED, THOUGH, WHERE YOU GOT THE HIGH SCHOOL KIDS WHO ARE HAVING A GREAT TIME.

AND NOW WHO, WHO WANTS THAT? I WOULDN'T WANT IT NEXT DOOR TO ME, BUT PERSONALLY I'M ACTUALLY LOOKING AT IT ON MY OWN HOME.

I'VE GOT A HOME THAT'S 40 2040 200 SQUARE FEET.

IT'S FOUR BEDROOM THAT'S BOUGHT.

AND HONESTLY WE DON'T EVEN GO UPSTAIRS ANYMORE.

AND I'M TALKING TO MY, MY GRANDSONS AND MY GREAT GRANDSONS AND THEY'RE TALKING TO BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SO I THINK AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, AS WE GO THROUGH IT, THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY GOOD LEARNING PROCESS FOR ME TOO, IN THAT IT'LL HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE SHOULDN'T DO IT, OR MAYBE WE MAY EVEN COME TO A POINT THAT, YEAH, WE SHOULD DO IT.

WE NEED TO REGULATE IT IN SUCH A FASHION THAT THE PROBLEMS ARE NOT THERE.

AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY TAKE.

AND I'M SURE YOU GUYS CAN GIVE ME A LOT MORE IN THE WAY I DO.

I ACTUALLY SPOKE WITH A FRIEND THAT LIVES IN THE, THE TOWN GATE, UM, CONDO RESIDENTIAL AREA, RIGHT AT 6 35 AND CENTERVILLE.

UM, THEY HAVE A CLUBHOUSE AND A POOL AND IT'S MOSTLY TOWNHOMES.

THERE ARE SOME, UH, DUPLEXES THERE AS WELL.

SO THEIR BIG PROBLEM IS THAT THEY CAN'T REGULATE SHORT-TERM RENTALS BECAUSE IT'S SO DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO CHANGE THE BYLAWS IN THEIR HOA.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE PROBLEM THAT HOS HAVE WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS.

AND, AND REALLY, I THINK IT'S UP TO THEM WHETHER OR NOT THEY SHOULD HAVE THEM IN THEIR, THEIR, UM, NEIGHBORHOODS OR NOT, BUT RIGHT.

SO, UM, BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTY THEY'RE HAVING REGULATING THEM WITHIN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE US TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM TO KIND OF MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES REGARDING SHORT-TERM RENTALS.

AND ALSO I THINK THAT PARKING, UM, NEEDS TO BE A CONSIDERATION AS WELL.

IF YOU HAVE A, UH, A HOME, IF YOU WANT TO RENT YOUR HOME OUT FOR A WEEKEND, JUST MAKE SURE THERE AREN'T 20 CARS COMING IN AT THE SAME TIME.

SO MAYBE A LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF AUTOMOBILES THAT CAN BE THERE.

AND, UM, DEFINITELY, UM, YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE NOISE ORDINANCES, AND IN CASES AS SUCH AS A WEDDING, UM, MAYBE A SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT WOULD BE USEFUL BECAUSE AREN'T THOSE SUPPOSED TO AREN'T YOU SUPPOSED TO HAVE THOSE FOR EVEN BIRTHDAY PARTIES? WELL, NO, I THINK IT'S A HUNDRED PACIFIC TIME.

YEAH.

AND, AND FOR ME, I HAVE A VERY LARGE FAMILY.

UH, IF YOU COME TO MY HOUSE ON THANKSGIVING, UH, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE PROBABLY A 50, 60.

OKAY.

BUT WHAT WE DO THOUGH, WE GO TO THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS AND WE TALK AND WE LET THEM KNOW, AND THEY DO THE SAME THING WITH US.

SO I DON'T SEE IT BEING ANY DIFFERENT, I GUESS, THAN A SITUATION SIMILAR TO THAT.

BUT OF COURSE, ANYTIME YOU GET INTO COMMERCIALISM INTO YOU GET A BUSINESS YEAH.

EVERYTHING THAT DYNAMICS CHANGE.

SO AGAIN, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS.

DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? UM, I DO.

NOT JUST THAT, OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW THAT PARKING IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM IN TRYING TO REGULATE PARKING.

THERE IS A, A AS YOU, AS YOU TAKE THE DRAFT ORDINANCE HOME, YOU CAN LOOK, THERE IS A PARKING PROVISION IN THERE.

UM, COUNCIL DIDN'T LOCK IT LAST TIME BECAUSE IT WILL, IT, IT, NUMBER ONE, IT'S DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE.

IT'S GONNA REQUIRE REALLY MUCH LIKE PARK TIMES.

IT'S REALLY MORE OF A TOOL IF WE HAVE A PROBLEM LOCATION AND WE DECIDE TO DEDICATE A LOT OF RESOURCES TO ONE PARTICULAR LOCATION, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A PROBLEM LOCATION.

IT GIVES US A TOOL TO USE, BUT IT WOULD REQUIRE QUITE A BIT OF RESOURCES TO ENFORCE ANY KIND OF OFF STREET PARKING FOR AIRBNBS OR VRB OWES.

IT'S JUST A DIFFICULT PRICE, AS WE ALL KNOW, PARKING IN NEIGHBORHOODS, DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE.

WELL, I THINK THIS COMES DOWN TO AGAIN, A COMPLAINT

[00:55:01]

DRIVEN SITUATION.

YEAH.

AND IT, AND AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE TOOLS TO, YOU KNOW, RESPOND TO THOSE COMPLAINTS, AT LEAST YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU CAN WORK WITH RATHER THAN, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY RULES GOVERNING THIS.

SO GO AHEAD.

YEAH.

WELL, I WILL JUST SAY RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS TO TAKE CARE OF THE COMPLAINTS.

WE JUST DON'T HAVE THEM.

AND EVEN THOUGH AIRBNB AND BRBO HAVE CHANGED THEIR RULES, THEY AREN'T THE ONLY GROUPS OUT THERE RENTING HOUSES.

AND THAT'S A PROBLEM.

THERE ARE A LOT OF LESS BRAND NAME, UM, PLACES, THE INTERNET, THE WILD WEST, AND THEY ARE PUTTING THEM OUT THERE.

UM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, I, I FORGET THE NAME OF THE COMPANY.

THAT'S RENTING THIS ONE, THAT'S CAUSED SO MANY COMPLAINTS, UM, IN THE EASTERN PART OF MY DISTRICT, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE KIND OF A NO NAME, UM, SHORT-TERM RENTAL PLACE, BUT THEY HAVE A BIG AD SHOWING THE HOUSE.

THAT'S IT'S LANDLORDS WHO HAVE MOVED AWAY AND THEY'RE JUST TAKING IN MONEY.

UM, AND ARE THEY GOING AROUND TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS SAYING, CAN 20 PARK TRUCKS PARK HERE EVERY NIGHT? NO, THEY'RE NOT BEING, THEY'RE BEING BAD NEIGHBORS OR WHO, THEY'RE NOT NEIGHBORS ANYMORE.

THEY'RE THEY'RE BAD LANDLORDS.

SO, UM, I'M JUST LOOKING AT THIS LAST COMPLAINT, UM, FROM, FROM THE HOA THAT SAID THE LAST TWO DAYS, AT LEAST FIVE FULL TRUCK, LOADS OF CONSTRUCTION WORKERS HAD BEEN LIVING AT THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, 20 TO TWENTY-FIVE PEOPLE GO INTO THE HOUSE EACH NIGHT.

UM, THEY MAKE NOISE, THEY PARK OUT THE STREET.

UM, YOU KNOW, HOW IS IT THAT NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS? SO THEY CALLED CODE COMPLIANCE AND CODE REPORTED BACK.

THERE ARE NO OCCUPANCY LIMITS FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS.

THAT, TO ME, THAT'S ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE FIRST ISSUES.

HOW, HOW CAN WE, CAN WE PUT OCCUPANCY LIMITS? YOU LOOK AT YOUR GRAFT ORDINANCE THAN I DID SINCE 2015 OCCUPANCY LIMITS.

SO THAT WENT BACK TO THAT JUST CAUSE YOU DON'T.

YEAH, NO.

WELL, AND IT'S, IT'S GOOD.

AND IT MAY BE THAT IT'S TIME HAS COME BECAUSE WE'VE, UH, I THINK JUST MOST DISTRICTS AROUND THE CITY HAVE ENDED UP HAVING COMPLAINTS ABOUT PARTY HOUSES OR JUST, UH, HOUSES LIKE, LIKE THIS ONE.

SO, UM, YEAH, LIMITING PARKING.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WILL EXPLORE AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

UM, YEAH.

AND ESPECIALLY EVENTS.

THIS IS ONE OF THE NUANCES.

SO AM I ALLOWED TO HAVE A WEDDING AT MY HOUSE AND INVITE TONS OF PEOPLE? YEAH, I AM.

AND MY NEIGHBORS WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT BECAUSE I WOULD DO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

BUT IF I HAVE A WEDDING PRETTY MUCH EVERY WEEKEND, OR IF I TURN MY HOUSE OVER TO CONSTRUCTION CREWS, RANDOM STRANGERS IN AND OUT, AND THEY COME WHILE THEY'RE WORKING, THAT BECOMES A PROBLEM FOR MY NEIGHBORS.

AND IT'S A LEGIT, IT'S A LEGIT PROBLEM, UM, THAT PEOPLE DON'T GO INTO NEIGHBORHOODS EXPECTING THAT.

AND WHEN I LOOK AT THE CONTRAST THAT WITH OUR HOME OCCUPATION RULES, YOU KNOW, WE SAY WITH HOME OCCUPATION RULES, IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK AND QUACKS LIKE A DUCK, THEN FLIES LIKE A DUCK, WE SAY IT'S A DUCK, IT'S A BUSINESS.

SO WITH THESE HOMES, IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WORK WITH SYMPTOMS. DO THEY, ARE THEY USING POWER TOOLS THAT MAKE DISTURBING NOISES HAS, HAS, HAS THE HOME BUSINESS INCREASED TRAFFIC TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, DOESN'T NECESSARILY SAY THAT IT HAS TO INCREASE PARKING, BUT TRAFFIC MOVING IN AND OUTGOING TO A CERTAIN HOUSE TO BUY, SELL, TRADE, DROP OFF, WHATEVER ARE THERE CHEMICAL SMELLS, UM, FROM WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY'RE DOING THERE.

AND ALL THESE THINGS CAME BECAUSE OF ACTUAL, UGLY EXPERIENCES, DIFFERENT COUNCIL MEMBERS, ONE IN YOUR DISTRICT CABINET MAKER, UM, UH, THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED AND TRIED TO CLOSE, CLOSE THE DOOR.

SO THE BIG QUESTION IS, UH, HOW CAN WE BEST, UM, START LOOKING AT REGULATING THESE MR. ENGLAND? DO YOU WANT TO JUST QUICKLY WALK US THROUGH YOUR DRAFT?